The bike companies make it so hard to figure out the differences between their own products at times. It’s strange that they are so bad at explaining their products. Thanks for this vid. You did a Lot of research. Thank you.
Totally correct. It's insane how these bike product manufacturers word that stuff. It sometimes seems like they don't WANT us to actually learn anything specific about the products. It's generalized, enigmatic, as if they're trying to hide some secret technology. Again I certainly agree w/you and maybe some consumer input/feedback will change that in the future. Almost all the companies seem to do that too that's what's so strange about it. "..[I]t's really good for THIS... but it also handles great for THAT too..." ~JSV
I've had Sram X0, then on my next bike I had Sram Guide R, then I switched to Shimano XT M8020, and I'm never going back to Sram... Main difference for me - the shimano brakes require sooo much less force on the lever. For short descends it's negligible, but for 30-40 minute descends the shimanos win, no arm pump at all. And easier to bleed.
@@jmanswat2457 i find there is a world of difference between the original guide r and much newer g2's or code. the latest shimano are also closer to how these feel (less on/off, so more lever force required). i do prefer bleeding with mineral oil by a lot though...
Ditto. Sram's on my hardtail screech when it's wet, destroy my confidence do not stop me in time when it gets really quick. Shimano brakes just work and imho are really good across the entire Deore range. Would never even consider Sram for stopping duties.
Same Experience... I was riding 4 years on Magura MT3 then switch to Shimano XT for 2 years and now I have Sram ULT second year .. and I would say Shimano XT were best of them... consistent performance all way down all day long, bleeding them is much more easy, and there was no need to adjust after changing of pads (brand pads) and most of all when you hit them they brake instantly... Sram ULT have always some delay and is even changing during the day (my filling :) )
Absolutely perfect video! Enough detail and content, well-paced, and not too long! And, your comparisons between the competing models is incredibly helpful! The comments about the changes in SRAM is reassuring, too.
The Code here is that you cant rely on Guide's to make sure that the trail is Level, but If you have a Saint, all is well n good and you can have some Hope. :)
I just switched to XTR 4 pistons and I am 250+ fast and on an ebike and there is no comparison in power and the XTRs blow away the SRAM codes and are supposed to have close to the same power as the Saints and all I know is do not want or need any more power and with SRAM I was begging for more power.
I've ridden both pretty heavily. SRAM tended to fade alarmingly quickly (even when new). Shimano is a bit abrupt at first but holds well on longer descents. I rode my buddy's bike down a short run, which had TRP brakes, and I fell in love... Edit: I still ride Shimano brakes. They’ve been reliable and metallic pads are the way to go. I’ve seen several people struggle with SRAM unreliability…
Get budget brakes (e.g. MT400 from Shimano), no fear of going OTB if there is no braking power to begin with. Also amazing "modulation" when there is no final stopping point for the brake.
MT400s are definitely nothing special, I just bought a set of XT rotors (with a 203 upgrade up front) and metallic pads to try to get some more out of them. Probably going to go with MT520 4 pots or maybe even SLX or Zee 4 pots eventually.
With shimano brakes I’ve found them work better with aftermarket pads, shimano pads I just could never get a long with. Still not tried the ceramic pads from disco brakes
Not only is the information presented here really well here, but the comedy and fun watching make this my favorite channel to seek equipment intel and reviews. You all must have a blast making this stuff yet you fill it with such solid information. Keep up the great work and you said it best .... it will break down to feel and preference. A rider will adjust to either in time. Both are great brakes and solid companies.
I just have to get it close enough to filled with Shimano brakes. Lately I’ve been too lazy to even bother topping it off after shortening and they feel perfect.
Easy but messy. As I wrote above, i'm a recent SRAM convert. I bought the SRAM Pro-bleed kit. Has everything and the kitchen sink thrown in, unlike the cheap over priced shimano bleed kits that are nothing but fiddly. The SRAM bleed system is insanely good. Like, no spill good. And being a close system, there is ZERO doubt that you have a good bleed.
Yep, Shimano are so easy. Hose on, screw in the funnel, crack the bleed plug, push (harmless mineral) oil through, job done. SRAM? I have the pro kit, but only 2 hands! And the air bubbles you can generate. And don't get the fluid on your skin or paint. Lock it all up and they still feel the same and they are still noisy. I do like the Code RSC's and don't feel the need to change, they are just a bit agricultural compared to shimano. A bit like comparing a Kawasaki to a Honda?
Evertb1 Not just you... I ran both, worked on both and I really prefer Shimano‘s no-nonsense easy bleed and the mineral oil. On my own bikes, Shimano only... I don’t like SRAM’s ‘great modulation a.k.a. not enough braking power’ and the ergonomics of their levers.
I think both are great. At first I thought sram was a lot worse but I was comparing low end sram to high end shimano and now I realize that along as you have high end ones they both feel amazing.
Excellent video, I've used SRAM Code, Level and Guide recently as well as Shimano SLX, XT and now Zee on my Specialized Enduro. For me it's the Shimano brakes - less arm pump, nicer bite, seems like more power also. The only other brake I've used that seems to match the ferocity of the Zee's is the Hope V4 brakes (which are also phenomenal - but rather pricey). I got my Zee's for £140 total front and rear and I couldn't be happier with them
Great video. You hit the nail on the head regarding the pistons on the SRAM. I have been running the SRAM HRD on a 1x Cyclocross bike for 4 years and constantly have the rubbing on the rotors! Never had that issue with Shimano.
I have the Shimano xtr trail brakes on my hardtail. And Shimano zee on my full suspension bike. the xtr unbelievable stoping power never ever had brakes like them.
You know shit brakes honestly can make you a better rider. I fell into the trope of broke mechanic that let his bike fall into moderate disrepair. Don't know what happened but my brakes started squealing like an SOB and lost stopping power and I realized (since I could hear them squeal constantly) that I stopped relying on them as much and you can corner more speed than you think, given the form is there.
I use sram on my mtb and Shimano on my roadie. I like the gradual modulation when going down trails, but often times appreciate the responsiveness of Shimano on the road dodging cars and oblivious people on paved trails.
I recently replaced my Sram Code REs with whimano SLX 4 piston brakes and they're so much better. No spongyness and the modulation is also easy to handle.
I have a pair of old Codes (from Avid era) and made a small rides with SLX´s, XT´s and so on... I like how they feel powerfull, but i honestly dont think they provide the same control. IF the prices are similar these days, i probally stay with Codes.
@@thelongestnameinthecomment9677 cod rsc's are terrible. They're bad enough to legit make the tech feel alot techier on the same bike in steep sections.
Delectably Diabolical More like you just suck at controlling modulation. I have the RSCs and SLX brakes and they’re equally capable of you don’t suck. Granted the Shimano are easier to throw yourself over the bars with if you’re not careful.
@@shoeonhead Nah, they're horrid. I've had them completely fail on Deer Valley's enduro track. Twice in the same day actually. Never had that with Shimano. If you don't ride actual tech you don't know what I'm talking about.
Great video. I had SRAM on my front and back. Snapped one of the lever clamps on a trail and had to buy another brake right away. Shimano was in stock. Now front is Shimano and rear is SRAM. Can definitely feel the difference. Wicked video explaining it all. Thanks!
Shimano Saints are for sure the best brakes of all time. Huge power, low profile levers, great adjustability, fantastic cooling, look incredible, and perhaps most importantly, easiest brakes to service, and bleed.
loved that comedy sketch, especially when the philips head screw driver was mentioned. when I first got some XT's i said "what the hell, a screw driver!!" hahaha!!
@@kevinfairclough4619 The problem is that its another tool you need to take. It would be much more convenient and practical if it was an allen head, plus it would look way better.
Great video and it's true. I bought a sram equipped bike as wanted something different. The brakes I just hated, took back to the bike shop to get re-bled as heaps of people say really hard to setup good compared to Shimano. But when tested by several people they were better than normal for sram. I eventually have up after many months and bought Shimano 2 piston XTR and so so happy. Bike actually stops now. Imagine what the 4 piston would do. Sold sram on line fast so somebody likes them. Shimano feel like powerful sport brakes and not soft soggy v-brakes
Why would you ever buy a crappier product because you want something different? Seems like you set yourself up to lose on that one big time.. always Shimano… always
@@Smegma_pirate I just wanted to try something different. Always had 3x or 2x then this my first 1x Wanted the bike, not the groupset, but thought worth a try. Didn't know I'd hate it, otherwise wouldn't have bought. Many like sram. Many don't. Some don't care. I'll know now I hate it. My latest bike is back to Shimano.
He is a SRAM fan because it's a US brand.... Whining about the free stroke screw at Saint, you set it once and that's it. You not touching it ever after its set. .. Then the weight trick he did here. Very obvious
I have Shimano ZEE and the free stroke adjustment works great. the brakes at first felt spongy even though they were bleed. I replaced the free stroke screw, kind of a stopscrew with an old adjustment screw from an older Shimano front derailleur. So now free stroke adjustment works perfectly. :)
Couple things. 1: Jeff can shred! Look at him go! 2: Love SRAM's moooooooooodulation! 3: 3:01 gave me all sorts of PTSD! That sound you make before you know its gonna hurt!
I've used XT's for a long time. I got a Giant Trance with Guide T's in the fall of 2018 and the first time I used the brakes on the trail, I thought I was having a brake failure. But, after about 20 minutes, I was completely used to them - and liked them. I ended up putting XT's on the Giant just because I work on my bikes, my wife's bikes and my adult son's bike and it's just easier to have the same on all. And, the XT's are ridiculously easy to work on. Recently though, my wife has been locking up her brakes on harder trails so I put the Guides on her bike and it was a huge improvement for her riding. They're both good manufacturers, for sure and I'd happily use either!
I've had XT, zee, and currently code rsc and I've honestly enjoyed all of them. Going from shimano to SRAM felt a bit strange on my first few rides, but now that I'm used to them I love how easy it is to feather the brakes. Can't really say I prefer one brand over the other
Old comment I know but do you or did you find issues with wandering bite point on Shimano? Considering trying Code RSC for a more consistent bite point. Currently have SLX on both trail and enduro bike, had Zee on my gravity bike and swapped out the original levers to SLX after too many crashes on the original levers!
Amazing video, thanks! Currently I'm using the Level T brakes and I like a lot of the brake feeling and braking action. My original plan was to ride these low level T brakes until they die and then upgrade. Well they are still OK but I think I need to update for something better. In the past I used the Shimano M8000 XT brakes and they were superior over the current setup but I'm going to go for G2 RSC or Ultimate because I just like the braking feeling and I just want to adjust things! DOT fluid for me is definitely needed because I also ride a lot in extreme cold weather and mineral oil gets "dirtier" in shorter time. I would say it is needed to change the mineral oil once in a year and DOT less frequently. You didn't cover the brake pad topics at all!? People if you read comments, please tell me about the brake pads and which one to use. I used metal pads in the XT (ice tech) and they don't lock so easily and having less bite but having more precise contact, what do you think?
Sorry, late to the party. Good, fun video as always. Thanks. But I'd like to add one of the biggest downsides to Shimano brakes you didn't mention... The wandering bite point. In cold weather, even with perfectly bled brakes it happens. Happened on my Saints and XTs. Worse in the rear. Probably due to the mineral oil getting thicker in cold weather and not allowing the pistons to retract fully prior to the next quick lever throw. Also, Shimano pads rattle. On my DH rig with finned pads the Saints always had me thinking I had a loose headset. Even without finned pads they rattle bad. Shimano's stopping power and easy bleeds are great but those last two issues have me moving over to SRAM brakes and weeding out my Shimano stock - and I'm pretty happy so far.
@Worldwide Cyclery . Do SRAM Level TL brakes have reach adjust? I've looked online and some sources say no and some say yes. If so how is this achieved?
@@WorldwideCyclery yeah that would be an awesome video to watch on lock down. I have magura mt5's and curious about modulation comparison. What about a video about the differences in the actual brake disc's?
I have been riding since 1993-94 and I went back to the time honored classic. The old school coster broke. Nothing like flying down a rocky hill and feeling like I’m going to slide to my doom! Plus who doesn’t like to pull wicked skids down the neighbors driveway?
Yeah I bought an XTR front brake, and there's no contact point adjustment, like the screw never did anything. Have an Avid Elixer rear brake brake which was way cheaper. Overall you're probably right. Pretty happy with the setup now, got the sponge in the back, and the power in the front. Was kind of surprised with the XTR it was expensive, and pretty basic.
Amazing work here - thank you! Running SRAM Ultimates and XX1 on a Canyon Strive...too much kit for my skill set. Speaking of modulation (or lack thereof) in my younger and braver years I up-spec’d my hard tail to a pair of XTR V-brakes (disc brakes were only just coming to market then)...talk about getting thrown over the handlebars! Did the job and I loved the confidence they gave me after getting used to them.
Me too. I put a set of XTR V-brakes on my Cannondale Super V back in the day and the improvement in stopping power was unreal compared to cantilevers. It was all good until I got caught in a torrential rainstorm and the V-brakes gave up the ghost. Cranking the levers back to the bars barely slowed me down. I gave up and bought a set of Magura hydraulic rim brakes, which worked great in any weather. So long as the rim was fairly true they'd stop you. I still have Magura's on my road bike. But I've got Shimano 4-pot disks on my MTB. Only Deore mind, but they STOP the bike on a dime. They modulate fine once you get used to them. And talk about value for money! Then again, I'm looking at a Yeti SB130 which comes with SRAM CODE Rs. I've I've heard good things, so I'll give them a go. I'm keep the Shimano Deore brakes though. Just in case.
I run the cheapest shimano brakes bl m500 I think and they accually work surprisingly well for the price, I wouldn’t mind testing sram tho and try with the modulation difference but im allways a fan for the shimano feel
I run Hope tech 3 e4 and love them because of the tool free adjustable as I can have them with loads of modulation or a on of feel depends on the trail I’m riding which is from xc trails and down hill trails
4:50 You mention rotor size, I dont know if its different on mountain bikes, but disc beakes on cars (motorsport) have larger rotors for more thermal handling, not more stopping power. For example, get a cheap basic shitbox car, and stomp the brakes, even the smallest car brakes are capable of locking up, and exceeding the grip of the tyres. So its no problem with stopping power of small brakes. But go tarmac rally that same car for example, and you will VERY quickly exceed the thermal capacity of the braking system. This is why motorsport generally use bigger brakes. To overcome the greater heat.
Great video! Just started really watching UA-cam… I have some catching up to do.. anyhow, got back into biking about 7 years ago after about 15 years, best decision of my life and my first “nice” mountain bike was a Diamondback hardtail with the Avid Elixir’s on 160mm rotors. I love to go fast and brake late I was plenty happy with those.(at the time) Had to comment because they were mentioned in the vid. After 5 years of research I found my ultimate bike, the Canyon Torque cf 4 , mostly for price point that was largely set by the equipment it came with. Love the Code R’s I can still have control with 1 finger only. SRAM will be my choice as I upgrade and replace. Thanks again WC!
I have Zee's on my downhill and they're awesome, I always rave about them when anyone asks. My enduro bike has Guide RSC's and although they're my second choice, I couldn't justify upgrading to a second set of Zee's. I find my Guides to be a lot more resilient too, way less maintenance and more reliable.
my Giant Trance came with non-series 4 piston MT-520's that are technically a trail brake but use Saint/Zee pads, not sure if all of Shimano's 4 piston brakes use the same pads though?
I rock the MT-520's as well. all the same tech as the big expensive boys, in a much cheaper package. Dang good brake for sure. Do note if you want to rock finned pads on them you will have to notch to trailing edge of the fin (side closest to the hose fitting). But non finned pads are identical to the Saint/Zee 4 piston pads.
I've heard those MT-520s are great for the price, looking to throw a set on my Trance (I got the aluminum frame, so only MT-400 2 pots, which are about as weak as the Tektros on my hardtail).
Good comparison with some well thought out points. I prefer the feel of the new SRAM brakes but every pair that I have ever owned have had reliability issues and as such I run Shimano XTs on all of my bikes.
Good video. My 2 cents as a 20 year bike mechanic. I’ve always been a Shimano rider, but recently swapped over to SRAM components thinking they finally fixed all the whoas of old. Now SRAM levers are easily effected by heat, AKA sitting in the sun for 5 minutes. This warranty issue that they don’t even question anymore needs to be resolved pronto. I have had to send in so many pair to SRAM, from the bike shop I work at, I can’t even keep track 🤦♂️ at least they are really good about replacing for free🤙
I had old Avid brakes when I first bought my bike, with poorly bled lines and worn out levers. Replaced those with SRAM Level brakes immediately, worked okay but not a lot of braking power for an all mountain/enduro bike (just what was immediately available at the time), and recently I upgraded to G2 RS brakes with new rotors. Absolutely love the G2s, they stop extremely well with good modulation and tool-free features. I was never a fan of the Shimano brakes having barely any modulation before locking up, made it really easy to slide around in loose dirt or sandy trail conditions. And as a car mechanic, already having tons of DOT fluid available made it zero of an issue.
Modulation was what I was after. It’s not cool locking up the front wheel on gravel trails even with light touch. Going to be changing out breaks looking for “free stroke.”
I used to have sram ultimate brakes on my bike and they are great!! I now have XTR race brakes on my bike and my wife has XTR trail brakes on hers. My favorite of all are the XTR trail.
Most people that have raced or ride a lot should understand the benefits of modulation brakes. Ive used both and you have to find what you like and ask the shop to keep them working the same way all year long. Plus it’s important to know where the bike is locking up and how to control the drag needed on Shimano and Sram, by the power in your finger. Ive never lost a race because of the power from the locking of the brakes, but by the modulation because of the brake not locking up when its needed. Then again I never won a race unless it was a local event. Haha, but still love the sport even at my age now. Great info this shop helps us out for.
Switch to metal pads. They don't grab as quick as organic pads and have the added benefit of better heat tolerance and weather resistance. I have 2 piston xt brakes on my trail bike and 4 piston xt brakes on my Enduro bike. Both are great brakes but the metal pads have less initial grab.
And yes! The little screw on the Shimano brakes AKA " free stroke" it does 2 things actually ( at least on my Saints), if you turn them 'counter clockwise' they'll throw the lever further 'out' for longer finger riders, and it delivers more fluid to the caliper ( try to hook up the bleeding funnel, and press the lever once with the screw all the way in and once with it all the way out) and notice how much fluid " jumps" out of the funnel, you'll notice that there's more fluid jumps when the screw is screwed more counter clockwise.... Enjoy!
I ran SRAMs forever but my Tracer came with Shimano XTs that are fine, not great but okay. I put Hope V4s on the DH bike and I love them!! The hopes are def. more spongy than anything I've ever ran, but you get used to them. Plus they LOOK like a million bucks. Oh and to answer the question, I'd choose SRAM over Shimano.
are hopes really actually good? I've heard SO many reliability issues about them but god damn i want a pair on my bike! I've heard they really aren't as strong as shimano or sram but i'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of power for those looks.
@@dash0173 Hopes are awesome. I never heard of anyone having issues with them. And they have plenty of power. I am 235 lbs. And have no problem stopping my downhill bike. I have had the same set of V4 brakes for the last 6 years and only have to bleed them once a year.
@@dash0173 For some reason when I first got them, I had to have them bled 3 times before they worked correctly, since then they have been AWESOME!! Maybe the shop here in Denver was bleeding them wrong or something. Once I had them bled for the 3rd time at Evolution bike shop in Whistler, they have been amazing!!
I’m testing Bionol for a few months now, and I recommend that to everyone who has mineral oil brakes. Oh, and BTW I’m using MT Trail brakes. 4 piston front, 2 piston rear. Had a Avid Code R for almost 5 years. Good times, good brakes.
It is though. Without people putting preference for one or the other you will never see any improvements. Competiton makes better products for us consumers.
I prefer that more “Responsive” shimano brakes. Locking out brakes shows that you are still not familiar to the handling of the bike. Spongey brakes will have problems when applying emergency brakes especially riding in the city.
Me too--I have an inexpensive Shimano hydro on my hardtail and after riding w/them for long enough you start to get the FEEL for that brake, and you CAN create a modulation with your hand/grip if you're used to Shimano. I feel a more direct control over the bike. Always feel better with snappy brake response. When disc (mechanical) was just making it's way onto mountain bikes, all ANYBODY wanted was super firm "stop-short" brake action. I'm getting a Stumpjumper and that comes w/the Srams so if I can't get used to those I'll switch back to Shimano. oH g-WiZ $$$😢 ~JSV
Let the debate begin...SRAM or Shimano brakes?
Magura
Trickstuff
Definitely Sram. Much better modulation, better bite point, better feeling, and a lot easier to use reliably
Sram
whats the best rotor to use with sram brakes so they don't squeal?
Why is the last section called Jeff's Preference, and not just Jefference
I keep a few bubbles in my Shimanos to make it feel like Srams
Ah yes
🤣🤣🤣 I love it
Cheers
too true
Low-key smart
The bike companies make it so hard to figure out the differences between their own products at times. It’s strange that they are so bad at explaining their products. Thanks for this vid. You did a Lot of research. Thank you.
Totally correct. It's insane how these bike product manufacturers word that stuff. It sometimes seems like they don't WANT us to actually learn anything specific about the products. It's generalized, enigmatic, as if they're trying to hide some secret technology. Again I certainly agree w/you and maybe some consumer input/feedback will change that in the future. Almost all the companies seem to do that too that's what's so strange about it.
"..[I]t's really good for THIS... but it also handles great for THAT too..."
~JSV
main reason why I'd go with Shimano: Sram in Polish literally means "I am shitting" and that makes me feel weird xD
You feel weird? Now imagine me being portuguese, I had a Kona Stincky. "Kona" in portuguese means pussy ahaha
So what do you say in Polish if you have brake fade? Shitting shit shit?
@@martin5869 XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
@@martin5869 my guy riding kona 😃
@@martin5869 I have a Kona Stinky aswell :)
Best explanation of brake difference I have ever seen or heard.. 5 stars sir
Thank you 🍻
100% agree
I love this channel so far
This is not and app you can rate 😂
I think what is missing is the size of the rider. Bigger rider go with Shimano...gobs more power.
@@gangdoggviper : in the good old UA-cam times there was the 5-star rating...I miss it :´)
I've had Sram X0, then on my next bike I had Sram Guide R, then I switched to Shimano XT M8020, and I'm never going back to Sram... Main difference for me - the shimano brakes require sooo much less force on the lever. For short descends it's negligible, but for 30-40 minute descends the shimanos win, no arm pump at all. And easier to bleed.
Nailed it. The Sram "modulation" I feel is an excuse feature to explain how/why they brake so badly.
@@jmanswat2457 i find there is a world of difference between the original guide r and much newer g2's or code. the latest shimano are also closer to how these feel (less on/off, so more lever force required). i do prefer bleeding with mineral oil by a lot though...
Ditto. Sram's on my hardtail screech when it's wet, destroy my confidence do not stop me in time when it gets really quick. Shimano brakes just work and imho are really good across the entire Deore range. Would never even consider Sram for stopping duties.
@@robhughes645 your breaks screeching when wet has nothing to do with the brand
Same Experience... I was riding 4 years on Magura MT3 then switch to Shimano XT for 2 years and now I have Sram ULT second year .. and I would say Shimano XT were best of them...
consistent performance all way down all day long, bleeding them is much more easy, and there was no need to adjust after changing of pads (brand pads) and most of all when you hit them they brake instantly... Sram ULT have always some delay and is even changing during the day (my filling :) )
Welp, seems like I'll be spending *_18 minutes in the toilet..._*
On, or in?
@@Mp57navy 😀🤣
Lol I’m on the toilet now ...
You get internet in the toilet
@@Mp57navy brits and Australians call the "bathroom" the "toilet"
Absolutely perfect video! Enough detail and content, well-paced, and not too long! And, your comparisons between the competing models is incredibly helpful! The comments about the changes in SRAM is reassuring, too.
Perfect timing on this video, I literally just watched your TRP quadiem brake review and then this video pops up!
The Code here is that you cant rely on Guide's to make sure that the trail is Level, but If you have a Saint, all is well n good and you can have some Hope. :)
😂😂 Amazing!
@@WorldwideCyclery That took me a second to make haha
I just switched to XTR 4 pistons and I am 250+ fast and on an ebike and there is no comparison in power and the XTRs blow away the SRAM codes and are supposed to have close to the same power as the Saints and all I know is do not want or need any more power and with SRAM I was begging for more power.
You forgot that you need some Klampers.
I´m the guy, who rides Shimano Saints on the XC with 100 mm of travel :D It´s great to have ridiculous power under your finger.
I've ridden both pretty heavily. SRAM tended to fade alarmingly quickly (even when new). Shimano is a bit abrupt at first but holds well on longer descents. I rode my buddy's bike down a short run, which had TRP brakes, and I fell in love...
Edit: I still ride Shimano brakes. They’ve been reliable and metallic pads are the way to go. I’ve seen several people struggle with SRAM unreliability…
Get budget brakes (e.g. MT400 from Shimano), no fear of going OTB if there is no braking power to begin with. Also amazing "modulation" when there is no final stopping point for the brake.
MT400s are definitely nothing special, I just bought a set of XT rotors (with a 203 upgrade up front) and metallic pads to try to get some more out of them. Probably going to go with MT520 4 pots or maybe even SLX or Zee 4 pots eventually.
I agree, I prefer the larger level of the cheap Shimano and the modulation is nice. But cheap brake means more weight and fading.
With shimano brakes I’ve found them work better with aftermarket pads, shimano pads I just could never get a long with. Still not tried the ceramic pads from disco brakes
mrvwbug44 I appreciate this joke 😂
@@woduk What aftermarket pads you running?
I have Sram on my bike atm because they came with them but I love the lever feel of Shimano SLX,XT, and XTR MUCH MORE.
Thanks for making this video! Someone finally compared all the options out there!
Not only is the information presented here really well here, but the comedy and fun watching make this my favorite channel to seek equipment intel and reviews. You all must have a blast making this stuff yet you fill it with such solid information. Keep up the great work and you said it best .... it will break down to feel and preference. A rider will adjust to either in time. Both are great brakes and solid companies.
Maybe it's just me, but I find my Shimano brakes (xtr) very easy to bleed. No problems at all.
I just have to get it close enough to filled with Shimano brakes. Lately I’ve been too lazy to even bother topping it off after shortening and they feel perfect.
It’s not you they are really easy to bleed
Easy but messy. As I wrote above, i'm a recent SRAM convert. I bought the SRAM Pro-bleed kit. Has everything and the kitchen sink thrown in, unlike the cheap over priced shimano bleed kits that are nothing but fiddly. The SRAM bleed system is insanely good. Like, no spill good. And being a close system, there is ZERO doubt that you have a good bleed.
Yep, Shimano are so easy. Hose on, screw in the funnel, crack the bleed plug, push (harmless mineral) oil through, job done. SRAM? I have the pro kit, but only 2 hands! And the air bubbles you can generate. And don't get the fluid on your skin or paint. Lock it all up and they still feel the same and they are still noisy. I do like the Code RSC's and don't feel the need to change, they are just a bit agricultural compared to shimano. A bit like comparing a Kawasaki to a Honda?
Evertb1 Not just you... I ran both, worked on both and I really prefer Shimano‘s no-nonsense easy bleed and the mineral oil. On my own bikes, Shimano only... I don’t like SRAM’s ‘great modulation a.k.a. not enough braking power’ and the ergonomics of their levers.
I think both are great. At first I thought sram was a lot worse but I was comparing low end sram to high end shimano and now I realize that along as you have high end ones they both feel amazing.
I love these kind of comparison videos. Good job!
Brilliant video guys, well made and good info!
Excellent video, I've used SRAM Code, Level and Guide recently as well as Shimano SLX, XT and now Zee on my Specialized Enduro. For me it's the Shimano brakes - less arm pump, nicer bite, seems like more power also. The only other brake I've used that seems to match the ferocity of the Zee's is the Hope V4 brakes (which are also phenomenal - but rather pricey). I got my Zee's for £140 total front and rear and I couldn't be happier with them
Running Sram guide r and love them. No issues at all. They stop me when I need to be stopped!
Great video. You hit the nail on the head regarding the pistons on the SRAM. I have been running the SRAM HRD on a 1x Cyclocross bike for 4 years and constantly have the rubbing on the rotors! Never had that issue with Shimano.
Great video. I recently installed 2 piston XT brakes with XTR rotors on my XC bike. It feels awesome.
I have the Shimano xtr trail brakes on my hardtail. And Shimano zee on my full suspension bike. the xtr unbelievable stoping power never ever had brakes like them.
Just send it. No brakes!
You know shit brakes honestly can make you a better rider. I fell into the trope of broke mechanic that let his bike fall into moderate disrepair. Don't know what happened but my brakes started squealing like an SOB and lost stopping power and I realized (since I could hear them squeal constantly) that I stopped relying on them as much and you can corner more speed than you think, given the form is there.
No brakes means you go faster. I like the way you think sir
weight saving FTW
@@milesburningham8835 I don't think it makes you faster, I think it just prevents you from going slower
Love your channel and store. Fast and free shipping was great this week. Hope you’re healthy and business is staying afloat.
Thank you for the kind words and for being an EPIC customer!
Really informative vid, exactly what I was looking for as a complete newbie.
I use sram on my mtb and Shimano on my roadie. I like the gradual modulation when going down trails, but often times appreciate the responsiveness of Shimano on the road dodging cars and oblivious people on paved trails.
I recently replaced my Sram Code REs with whimano SLX 4 piston brakes and they're so much better. No spongyness and the modulation is also easy to handle.
Now try code rsc
I have a pair of old Codes (from Avid era) and made a small rides with SLX´s, XT´s and so on...
I like how they feel powerfull, but i honestly dont think they provide the same control.
IF the prices are similar these days, i probally stay with Codes.
@@thelongestnameinthecomment9677 cod rsc's are terrible. They're bad enough to legit make the tech feel alot techier on the same bike in steep sections.
Delectably Diabolical More like you just suck at controlling modulation. I have the RSCs and SLX brakes and they’re equally capable of you don’t suck. Granted the Shimano are easier to throw yourself over the bars with if you’re not careful.
@@shoeonhead Nah, they're horrid. I've had them completely fail on Deer Valley's enduro track. Twice in the same day actually. Never had that with Shimano. If you don't ride actual tech you don't know what I'm talking about.
Great video. I had SRAM on my front and back. Snapped one of the lever clamps on a trail and had to buy another brake right away. Shimano was in stock. Now front is Shimano and rear is SRAM. Can definitely feel the difference. Wicked video explaining it all. Thanks!
I like Sram too but I'm in love with that bite from my xt 4 piston. Great video btw
Shimano Saints are for sure the best brakes of all time. Huge power, low profile levers, great adjustability, fantastic cooling, look incredible, and perhaps most importantly, easiest brakes to service, and bleed.
Austin K new xtr 4 piston beats it
service?There are no service kits for shimano, no orings, cylinders or spare parts
@@lunatiy I don't need to change any part on Shimano brakes for 10y. Except when you destroy them by a crash.
Well the new XTRs give them a run for their money and are awesome.
this is a verry very informative and amazing video. pls keep doing videos like this!!!!!!!!!!!
whatta a nice video, congrats!!!!
loved that comedy sketch, especially when the philips head screw driver was mentioned. when I first got some XT's i said "what the hell, a screw driver!!" hahaha!!
Dont get what’s so funny about a screwdriver. No, really?..is there some sort of prejudice between tool types? Get real
@@kevinfairclough4619 The problem is that its another tool you need to take. It would be much more convenient and practical if it was an allen head, plus it would look way better.
Great video and it's true.
I bought a sram equipped bike as wanted something different.
The brakes I just hated, took back to the bike shop to get re-bled as heaps of people say really hard to setup good compared to Shimano. But when tested by several people they were better than normal for sram.
I eventually have up after many months and bought Shimano 2 piston XTR and so so happy.
Bike actually stops now.
Imagine what the 4 piston would do.
Sold sram on line fast so somebody likes them.
Shimano feel like powerful sport brakes and not soft soggy v-brakes
Why would you ever buy a crappier product because you want something different? Seems like you set yourself up to lose on that one big time.. always Shimano… always
@@Smegma_pirate I just wanted to try something different. Always had 3x or 2x then this my first 1x
Wanted the bike, not the groupset, but thought worth a try.
Didn't know I'd hate it, otherwise wouldn't have bought.
Many like sram.
Many don't.
Some don't care.
I'll know now I hate it.
My latest bike is back to Shimano.
Looking at upgrading and this was really helpful.
Great video, I learned a lot today. I appreciate all your doing.
Awesome! 🍻
It would help to use the right weights. Your stats are WAY off, listing complete brake and rotor weights on Shimano Vs brake only on SRAM? 🤔
Euan Holmes -
I was wondering why such a significant difference in weight.
Yes!
Like weight matters lmao
He is a SRAM fan because it's a US brand....
Whining about the free stroke screw at Saint, you set it once and that's it. You not touching it ever after its set. ..
Then the weight trick he did here.
Very obvious
Thank you I was freaking out!
Like the videos I bought one of your mud guards and a water bottle great quality.
Thank you so much! You're incredible 🍻
Nice .... very educational along with it not being boring. Well done.
I have Shimano ZEE and the free stroke adjustment works great. the brakes at first felt spongy even though they were bleed. I replaced the free stroke screw, kind of a stopscrew with an old adjustment screw from an older Shimano front derailleur. So now free stroke adjustment works perfectly. :)
Anyone else here remember the Magura Gustav brakes? Or am I the only old man here? I had them on my 2006 Demo 7. Miss that bike.
I had those meaty brakes on a KHS downhill bike in 2005. Floating caliper that always rubbed 😅. But they were powerful.
Couple things.
1: Jeff can shred! Look at him go!
2: Love SRAM's moooooooooodulation!
3: 3:01 gave me all sorts of PTSD! That sound you make before you know its gonna hurt!
I've used XT's for a long time. I got a Giant Trance with Guide T's in the fall of 2018 and the first time I used the brakes on the trail, I thought I was having a brake failure. But, after about 20 minutes, I was completely used to them - and liked them. I ended up putting XT's on the Giant just because I work on my bikes, my wife's bikes and my adult son's bike and it's just easier to have the same on all. And, the XT's are ridiculously easy to work on. Recently though, my wife has been locking up her brakes on harder trails so I put the Guides on her bike and it was a huge improvement for her riding.
They're both good manufacturers, for sure and I'd happily use either!
Awesome video would love to see one of these for the drivetrains
Jeff do be hitting different when he does voice overs
Awesome video Jeff! I just bought a set of Code RSC’s with the rainbow hardware from you guys! I love them! Are the levers on those carbon or alloy??
Amazing! Thank you so much for shopping with us. Those brakes, being for downhill, have a metal blade which is more durable than carbon 🍻
I've had XT, zee, and currently code rsc and I've honestly enjoyed all of them. Going from shimano to SRAM felt a bit strange on my first few rides, but now that I'm used to them I love how easy it is to feather the brakes. Can't really say I prefer one brand over the other
Old comment I know but do you or did you find issues with wandering bite point on Shimano? Considering trying Code RSC for a more consistent bite point. Currently have SLX on both trail and enduro bike, had Zee on my gravity bike and swapped out the original levers to SLX after too many crashes on the original levers!
Amazing video, thanks! Currently I'm using the Level T brakes and I like a lot of the brake feeling and braking action. My original plan was to ride these low level T brakes until they die and then upgrade. Well they are still OK but I think I need to update for something better. In the past I used the Shimano M8000 XT brakes and they were superior over the current setup but I'm going to go for G2 RSC or Ultimate because I just like the braking feeling and I just want to adjust things! DOT fluid for me is definitely needed because I also ride a lot in extreme cold weather and mineral oil gets "dirtier" in shorter time. I would say it is needed to change the mineral oil once in a year and DOT less frequently. You didn't cover the brake pad topics at all!? People if you read comments, please tell me about the brake pads and which one to use. I used metal pads in the XT (ice tech) and they don't lock so easily and having less bite but having more precise contact, what do you think?
Sorry, late to the party. Good, fun video as always. Thanks. But I'd like to add one of the biggest downsides to Shimano brakes you didn't mention... The wandering bite point. In cold weather, even with perfectly bled brakes it happens. Happened on my Saints and XTs. Worse in the rear. Probably due to the mineral oil getting thicker in cold weather and not allowing the pistons to retract fully prior to the next quick lever throw. Also, Shimano pads rattle. On my DH rig with finned pads the Saints always had me thinking I had a loose headset. Even without finned pads they rattle bad. Shimano's stopping power and easy bleeds are great but those last two issues have me moving over to SRAM brakes and weeding out my Shimano stock - and I'm pretty happy so far.
@Worldwide Cyclery . Do SRAM Level TL brakes have reach adjust? I've looked online and some sources say no and some say yes. If so how is this achieved?
Simple, but amazing video! THANKYOU! 😁
The comedy value alone makes this a great video.
TRP and Hope are my favorites.
What about magura vs hope?
Both make epic brakes! Would you be interested in seeing a larger brake comparison with multiple brands?
Yes that would be awesome!
Please....
@@mattallen5214 yeah sorry
@@WorldwideCyclery yeah that would be an awesome video to watch on lock down. I have magura mt5's and curious about modulation comparison. What about a video about the differences in the actual brake disc's?
Well presented with great detail. Excellent tutorial. 👍
I have been riding since 1993-94 and I went back to the time honored classic. The old school coster broke.
Nothing like flying down a rocky hill and feeling like I’m going to slide to my doom!
Plus who doesn’t like to pull wicked skids down the neighbors driveway?
Screw debates lets just ride, have fun and send it
No.
@@colingrover2039 Why
Yeah I bought an XTR front brake, and there's no contact point adjustment, like the screw never did anything. Have an Avid Elixer rear brake brake which was way cheaper. Overall you're probably right. Pretty happy with the setup now, got the sponge in the back, and the power in the front. Was kind of surprised with the XTR it was expensive, and pretty basic.
Amazing work here - thank you! Running SRAM Ultimates and XX1 on a Canyon Strive...too much kit for my skill set. Speaking of modulation (or lack thereof) in my younger and braver years I up-spec’d my hard tail to a pair of XTR V-brakes (disc brakes were only just coming to market then)...talk about getting thrown over the handlebars! Did the job and I loved the confidence they gave me after getting used to them.
Me too. I put a set of XTR V-brakes on my Cannondale Super V back in the day and the improvement in stopping power was unreal compared to cantilevers.
It was all good until I got caught in a torrential rainstorm and the V-brakes gave up the ghost. Cranking the levers back to the bars barely slowed me down.
I gave up and bought a set of Magura hydraulic rim brakes, which worked great in any weather. So long as the rim was fairly true they'd stop you.
I still have Magura's on my road bike. But I've got Shimano 4-pot disks on my MTB. Only Deore mind, but they STOP the bike on a dime. They modulate fine once you get used to them. And talk about value for money!
Then again, I'm looking at a Yeti SB130 which comes with SRAM CODE Rs. I've I've heard good things, so I'll give them a go.
I'm keep the Shimano Deore brakes though. Just in case.
Ever tried the new XTR's? Best brakes I've ever tried!
Great breakdown!
Tektro cable brakes and that is why I’m watching this lol
I run the cheapest shimano brakes bl m500 I think and they accually work surprisingly well for the price, I wouldn’t mind testing sram tho and try with the modulation difference but im allways a fan for the shimano feel
You helped me. Thanks, man.
Excellent detailed comparison A+++
I run Hope tech 3 e4 and love them because of the tool free adjustable as I can have them with loads of modulation or a on of feel depends on the trail I’m riding which is from xc trails and down hill trails
I am looking at those.
great brakes, durable, looks fantastic but it is always a pity that hope cant give some more power to them especially for their price.
4:50
You mention rotor size, I dont know if its different on mountain bikes, but disc beakes on cars (motorsport) have larger rotors for more thermal handling, not more stopping power.
For example, get a cheap basic shitbox car, and stomp the brakes, even the smallest car brakes are capable of locking up, and exceeding the grip of the tyres. So its no problem with stopping power of small brakes. But go tarmac rally that same car for example, and you will VERY quickly exceed the thermal capacity of the braking system.
This is why motorsport generally use bigger brakes. To overcome the greater heat.
bikes dont have brahe boosters
Bigger rotor means the break has more time per spin to stop the wheel from spinning.
@@hamishbarr2796 Neither do alot of race/rally cars. (Often twin cylider pedal box used.)
Great vid. Thanks for the info for someone who didn't have a clue! After watching this, I think SRAM would be my choice.
Great video! Just started really watching UA-cam… I have some catching up to do.. anyhow, got back into biking about 7 years ago after about 15 years, best decision of my life and my first “nice” mountain bike was a Diamondback hardtail with the Avid Elixir’s on 160mm rotors. I love to go fast and brake late I was plenty happy with those.(at the time) Had to comment because they were mentioned in the vid. After 5 years of research I found my ultimate bike, the Canyon Torque cf 4 , mostly for price point that was largely set by the equipment it came with. Love the Code R’s I can still have control with 1 finger only. SRAM will be my choice as I upgrade and replace. Thanks again WC!
I have Zee's on my downhill and they're awesome, I always rave about them when anyone asks. My enduro bike has Guide RSC's and although they're my second choice, I couldn't justify upgrading to a second set of Zee's. I find my Guides to be a lot more resilient too, way less maintenance and more reliable.
my Giant Trance came with non-series 4 piston MT-520's that are technically a trail brake but use Saint/Zee pads, not sure if all of Shimano's 4 piston brakes use the same pads though?
Yes, they do use the same pads ;)
Of course they have a series they fit into: Deore
I rock the MT-520's as well. all the same tech as the big expensive boys, in a much cheaper package. Dang good brake for sure. Do note if you want to rock finned pads on them you will have to notch to trailing edge of the fin (side closest to the hose fitting). But non finned pads are identical to the Saint/Zee 4 piston pads.
I've heard those MT-520s are great for the price, looking to throw a set on my Trance (I got the aluminum frame, so only MT-400 2 pots, which are about as weak as the Tektros on my hardtail).
Do they stop really well? I'm tempted to swap these to my hardtail. I'm a heavier guy that rides hard downhill
Good comparison with some well thought out points. I prefer the feel of the new SRAM brakes but every pair that I have ever owned have had reliability issues and as such I run Shimano XTs on all of my bikes.
Good video. My 2 cents as a 20 year bike mechanic. I’ve always been a Shimano rider, but recently swapped over to SRAM components thinking they finally fixed all the whoas of old. Now SRAM levers are easily effected by heat, AKA sitting in the sun for 5 minutes. This warranty issue that they don’t even question anymore needs to be resolved pronto. I have had to send in so many pair to SRAM, from the bike shop I work at, I can’t even keep track 🤦♂️ at least they are really good about replacing for free🤙
What about the lower end of the brakes, like shimano deore brakes, what sram brake do they compete against?
Deore doesn't feel too much different from like an XTR or a Saint, it's just not as powerful and doesn't deal with heat as well
I heard that you need to unscrew the free stroke adjuster almost all the way
Bleed the brakes
And then screw it back in
Very helpful video.
I had old Avid brakes when I first bought my bike, with poorly bled lines and worn out levers. Replaced those with SRAM Level brakes immediately, worked okay but not a lot of braking power for an all mountain/enduro bike (just what was immediately available at the time), and recently I upgraded to G2 RS brakes with new rotors. Absolutely love the G2s, they stop extremely well with good modulation and tool-free features. I was never a fan of the Shimano brakes having barely any modulation before locking up, made it really easy to slide around in loose dirt or sandy trail conditions. And as a car mechanic, already having tons of DOT fluid available made it zero of an issue.
Modulation was what I was after. It’s not cool locking up the front wheel on gravel trails even with light touch. Going to be changing out breaks looking for “free stroke.”
I prefer my Magura brakes :D incredible lever feel with great modulation, but still like dropping an anchor.
Who does the best brake down videos ever about bikes and components (BRAKES)? WHOOOOO? WWCYCLERY - JEFF! Thank you.
I switched to magura mt5 and never looked back and also I love the looks. Reminds me of my brembo lever on my superbike. 😁
my specialized came with Tektro... not bad and not great... will eventually swap them out for Sram.
I would take Tektro anytime over sram. Tektro is basically shimano just a bit ceaper but just as reliable
I used to have sram ultimate brakes on my bike and they are great!! I now have XTR race brakes on my bike and my wife has XTR trail brakes on hers. My favorite of all are the XTR trail.
I have shimano deore 4 piston brakes on my trance .love them and the modulation is better than the older 2 piston brakes
Most people that have raced or ride a lot should understand the benefits of modulation brakes. Ive used both and you have to find what you like and ask the shop to keep them working the same way all year long.
Plus it’s important to know where the bike is locking up and how to control the drag needed on Shimano and Sram, by the power in your finger.
Ive never lost a race because of the power from the locking of the brakes, but by the modulation because of the brake not locking up when its needed. Then again I never won a race unless it was a local event. Haha, but still love the sport even at my age now. Great info this shop helps us out for.
NothingNothingNothing... LOCK! 😆 Spot on. I wish I could return my XT 2-pistons
Switch to metal pads. They don't grab as quick as organic pads and have the added benefit of better heat tolerance and weather resistance. I have 2 piston xt brakes on my trail bike and 4 piston xt brakes on my Enduro bike. Both are great brakes but the metal pads have less initial grab.
Extremely well done video! I am definitely a fan of SRAM brakes. Better feel and adjustments. And I like the company better.
And yes! The little screw on the Shimano brakes AKA " free stroke" it does 2 things actually ( at least on my Saints), if you turn them 'counter clockwise' they'll throw the lever further 'out' for longer finger riders, and it delivers more fluid to the caliper ( try to hook up the bleeding funnel, and press the lever once with the screw all the way in and once with it all the way out) and notice how much fluid " jumps" out of the funnel, you'll notice that there's more fluid jumps when the screw is screwed more counter clockwise.... Enjoy!
Nice review mate well done, I agree with you both are great brakes in all models and price range it’s a personal choice,
riding Trickstuff Direttissima and lovin' it...
lol i wish. those things are 800 dollar for one set. thats just unbelievable
adza botchway the Maxima are 1400 dollars
They are good, but minimally better than the latest Code RSCs. I'd rather a set of carbon wheels for the money saved!!
I ran SRAMs forever but my Tracer came with Shimano XTs that are fine, not great but okay. I put Hope V4s on the DH bike and I love them!! The hopes are def. more spongy than anything I've ever ran, but you get used to them. Plus they LOOK like a million bucks. Oh and to answer the question, I'd choose SRAM over Shimano.
are hopes really actually good? I've heard SO many reliability issues about them but god damn i want a pair on my bike! I've heard they really aren't as strong as shimano or sram but i'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of power for those looks.
@@dash0173 Hopes are awesome. I never heard of anyone having issues with them. And they have plenty of power. I am 235 lbs. And have no problem stopping my downhill bike. I have had the same set of V4 brakes for the last 6 years and only have to bleed them once a year.
@@dash0173 For some reason when I first got them, I had to have them bled 3 times before they worked correctly, since then they have been AWESOME!! Maybe the shop here in Denver was bleeding them wrong or something. Once I had them bled for the 3rd time at Evolution bike shop in Whistler, they have been amazing!!
@@downhilljedi Yeah, I love them too!!
Saint levers and zee caliper modulation is solid in the game 👾
I’m testing Bionol for a few months now, and I recommend that to everyone who has mineral oil brakes.
Oh, and BTW
I’m using MT Trail brakes.
4 piston front, 2 piston rear.
Had a Avid Code R for almost 5 years.
Good times, good brakes.
It's just like console wars...
*_Pointless_* , each have their unique features and advantages, not worth fighting over..
Sony PS!😊✊
Exactly the answer is PC!
yeah! PCMR
It is though. Without people putting preference for one or the other you will never see any improvements. Competiton makes better products for us consumers.
@@m1chaelsc yes the answer is pc
Just like the answer is magura
I prefer that more “Responsive” shimano brakes. Locking out brakes shows that you are still not familiar to the handling of the bike. Spongey brakes will have problems when applying emergency brakes especially riding in the city.
Me too--I have an inexpensive Shimano hydro on my hardtail and after riding w/them for long enough you start to get the FEEL for that brake, and you CAN create a modulation with your hand/grip if you're used to Shimano. I feel a more direct control over the bike. Always feel better with snappy brake response. When disc (mechanical) was just making it's way onto mountain bikes, all ANYBODY wanted was super firm "stop-short" brake action. I'm getting a Stumpjumper and that comes w/the Srams so if I can't get used to those I'll switch back to Shimano. oH g-WiZ $$$😢
~JSV
If you don’t just lock your back brake everytime you pull it you’re riding fire roads
I run Shimano SLX levers pushing fluid to XT 4 pots with Ice Tech pads and rotors... Love em!!!
I really liked the feel of Guides when I tried them but the newest Shimanos have caught up in that regard.