I recently purchased the Tumbler from an IG ad, and I literally just used it for the first time this morning on my Cutco chef's knife. I only made a few passes to test it, and it worked pretty well. But I definitely wish I had seen this video prior to my purchase. You convinced me to look at the Hone. Great review!
Make sure to look at the description as I have a discount code in one of them. I don’t make a dime, just doing to get folks a very reasonably priced good sharpener.
Thanks! That was a really helpful in-depth review. I appreciate the comparison as well as the pros/cons and the detail on all of the features. Very informative!
Excellent, in-depth review. I was worried that Tumbler wouldn’t work on my small kitchen knives. All its advertising is with a large chefs knife. You perfectly demonstrated how both products work with small knives. Thks
I did purchase the Tumblr AMA I am NOT happy with it! It is very difficult to use. Wish I had seen your video BEFORE I ordered it, but I will be looking for the HONE and purchasing that one. Great video and your explanation was spot on!
The HONE is fantastic and now with 4 grits out and a 5th coming, it will be extremely complete. I love the new 3000 ceramic. Now they have 200, 400, 1000, 3000 ceramic and soon adding a 700 which is a great progression in my opinon. Yeah a lot of folks are switching.
Been sharpening knives for 50 years, and the Tumbler works VERY well for its intended use. I am sure the Hone does too. Once I bought the additional angle magnet tool for my tumbler i have even more versatility. I was able to do even more. I am not sure this review covers all of the accessories tumbler now has. It should.
I did a shoot out with Tumbler, HONE and Work Sharp rolling sharpeners few weeks ago. Not sure you watched that one? The Tumbler has been surpassed in nearly every area in testing as was demonstrated. Glad it works for you. Whatever folks enjoy they should use if it works for them. Appreciate your comment!
I recently bought a Tumbler plus a Tumbler strop, and then saw this video, returned the Tumbler (kept the strop) explaining why I was returning the Tumbler. Tumbler were as good as their word, and refunded my $$ (including shipping). I ordered the Hone and it arrived A WEEK BEFORE I expected it!!! Thanks again for sharing your video! (BTW I gave Tumbler a fair review as far as their service/customer-support is concerned) 😊
Sounds good! Lot’s of versatility with HONE and now the two new items coming out are really going to be fantastic. Should be getting my hands on them in a few weeks to test.
Thanks for the review and helpful info in your comment responses, helped make decision. I just received my order, one for me and one for my son. Also appreciate your discount code. Am curious if the change in grit on the #1 disc to what seems like 50% of what it was, is normal. I only sharpened 3 larger knives and a pearing knife.
Hi Luiz, my pleasure, that's great you are getting him into maintaining his knives. What a great dad! ;-). Yes in my comprehnsive "How to Video" I talk about the grits. That is common with everya disc, diamond stone, or other coated stones. When you first use it, they will sound REALLY rough on like the 200, 400 and a little less on the 700. The finer the abrasive the less you experience that feeling but it still occurs. Totally normal. A few new accessories coming out soon so hope you subscribe to my channel as I have a lot more videos coming out this years on many different things with the HONE. Cheers!
Try UKULELEJAYBBQ and see if that works. There was a code in my other HONE videos too which might work. Keep in mind it ships from where it's assembled in Canada and my experience is everyone is waiting about 2 weeks to get it so not sure it would make it to you for Christmas but if for you, it could be a late Christmas present ;-)
Depends on how they do the bearing, what materials are used to hold the bearings and many other factors that need to be tested, but that's a good start for sure.
I need your advice and experience on wether to get a Hone or a Chef’sChoice Trizor 15XV Professional for my Shun knives. I also have a few german lesser quality knives. thank you
I Cade. I do not like those spinning disc models for a lot of reasons. For manual sharpening of 15 or 20 degree blades, HONE is great. They have 200, 400, 1000, just released their 3000 ceramic grit which I would use on my Shun (I love Shun btw) and will do so once I get the 3000 in hand. They are also going to release some other grits as well so you can incrementally start where you want and go up in grit on a nice gradual increase rather than a huge jump. Those electric pull throughs like the Trizor take a lot of metal off if you are not careful and I have seen people ruin the edge by holding it too long or not pulling through evenly and then the blade is not even. You also get the fixed grits and the ceramic wheel which keep in mind you get metal build up (you'll see the black) and cleaning it is a pain. The HONE you just pop out the disc, give it a wash/dry and pop it back on. The Trizor will sharpen faster but speed isn't my motivation, it's getting that nice razor sharp edge. Keep in mind once your knife is sharp, you'll only need to use the 3000 ceramic every few uses and it will keep that blade aligned and sharp for months most likely. Most people don't realize (I never did at first) that honing and stropping are all you need for a long time. Actually sharpening your blade with a "sharpener" isn't needed regularly so make sure you get a good leather strop like this: amzn.to/3RexKLb and you'll be all set. Hope this helps?
Thanks for the detailed reply! one more question please. What discs would you recommend me getting for my Shun knives at 1st with he HONE? They are not dull now just not very sharp.@@UkuleleJayBBQ
I have never been proficient at sharpening knives. After seeing some videos on both the Horl and Tumbler, I purchased a Tumbler about 3 weeks ago (ordered 8-5-23, received 8-12-23) and decided to return it for a refund (8-28-23) even before seeing this product. The deciding factor was cost -- the Horl is $200-$400+ and I couldn't justify it. The Tumbler was $98. And I paid an additional $29 for a strop. I'm glad I made the decision. The single biggest problem with the Tumbler is the magnets on the holder base. I could not get it to hold knives securely, especially my German knives with wide base at the tang, and my Dalstrong paring knife which doesn't reach the top of the Tumbler holder. I had a lot of trouble trying to hold both the knives to keep them from sliding on the magnet base and the base itself. After watching a different video by Ukelele Jay, I made the purchase for $105 with free shipping. The Hone features are superior to both Tumbler and Horl (not to mention the cost is much lower than the Horl). Looking forward to receiving my Hone sharpener in about 7-10 days. (BTW, I kept the Tumbler strop because Hone doesn't offer one.)
Glad you saw the video. The HONE is a complete system and the larger discs are nice. There are good strops on Amazon in my store that work great. amazon.com/shop/ukulelejaybbq and go to the knife sharpening section and scroll down.
We are working on designing our HONE Strop. We would like to offer a 3x8 inch HONE Strop with bamboo wood base and anti-slip pad at the bottom. Providing just a piece of leather like Tumbler and HORL won’t meet our quality standards as the strop needs to be raised from the countertop and should not slip during use due to safety reasons. Our HONE Strop will be available for purchase on our website in a few weeks.
Agree. Same here. Was ok at first then also got very squeaky. The HONE eliminates all those issues as it's 100% aluminium with ball bearings. Will never wear out. Also has numerous discs and the new AngleMate strips are fantastic. I think it's a fantastic rolling sharpener. Have done dozens of knives with mine, zero issues.
No I don’t use the Tumbler at all any longer. I use the Hone. Much better (all aluminum and steel) never a squeak issue and so many more options for grits and angles.
Disappointing to be successfully sold on a product (making me not want the tumbler) to realise Hone don't ship to UK yet 😅 Edit: saw your amazon store, ordered from amazon US - can't wait!
Awesome thanks! Hone now has 5 grits available from 200 to 3000 ceramic. You will love Hone, they really nailed it. I have a 3 way shootout review coming out soon you will enjoy.
@@inkyste8078 yes. They have the 200 grit, 400 & 1000 and will have a 2000 as well. Will be all anyone needs. I got a dull knife razor sharp with the 400/1000. Solid unit!
I spoke with HORL did not want to provide a unit for testing. A three way shootout is being released in about a week or so (shooting it now) between Tumbler, HONE and Work Sharp rolling knife sharpeners. Stay tuned, it’s an extremely comprehensive video!
At 00:45 The statement, “I don’t care what videos show you” is the beginning of a very misleading statement. NOWHERE in tumblers videos does it say you can sharpen a knife in just a few strokes. Any person who knows how to properly sharpen a knife would not even think this would be a case. Tumbler clearly states it may take “up to” five minutes to achieve the desired sharpness on a damaged or ill kept knife. However, if your well maintained knife is already at 15 or 20 degrees it may not take long at all to get the benefits of a fine grain 2000 grit sharpener. once I had all of the knives in our kitchen up to snuff the Tumbler does exactly what was claimed to do, and it does it very well.
“Once up to snuff” as you said is key. That is not sharpening a “dull knive at 1000 on the BESS tester and taking it to razor sharp. For the most part but no one starts sharpening knives at 2000 grit. You are nearing honing range. It cannot compete in my opinion with the the Work Sharp or HONE as was demonstrated in the recent 3 way shoot out. It is underperforming in nearly all aspects based on extensive sharpening with all of these devices. I just report what the tests have demonstrated. Thanks for the comment!
Rolling sharpener are getting popular... theres 2 Chinese version too.. both Chinese version has 6 different grit. Diamond or whetstone.. I just want to see a adjustable knife holder....and a 25° and 30°
They already are working on something that will allow you to use the same holder to do other angles 😎 This will also have many to choose from. Should be available soon.
@@Oomph6006it’s outdated already and I consider Tumbler obsolete. HONE is state of the are (not HORL buT HONE). Not a knock off. Designed and assembled from the ground up in Canada. 1/3 the price if HORL with more features. The Hone Rolling Knife Sharpener - Is It The New King Of Knife Sharpeners? ua-cam.com/video/fOE8BW1g4LA/v-deo.html and comparison here: The Tumbler Or Hone Rolling Sharpener - Which One Is Better? ua-cam.com/video/58-RSgMwf60/v-deo.html
Bummer, sorry! Maybe a friend in US or Canada can receive it and forward it to you. My friend in El Salvador gets his purchases via a friend in New York so I know it’s possible.
I have heard this happening. The Tumbler is now obsolete for many reasons. Check out the HONE which just came out. I tossed my Tumbler. BEST HIGH END ROLLING KNIFE SHARPENER REVIEW. IS THE HONE THE NEW KING ROLLING KNIFE SHARPENER? ua-cam.com/video/fOE8BW1g4LA/v-deo.html The Tumbler Or Hone Rolling Sharpener - Which One Is Better? ua-cam.com/video/58-RSgMwf60/v-deo.html
@@rushiwar6107 sorry they are not the original rolling knife sharpener. You may want to watch my video so you can stop repeating what you hear others repeating incorrectly and learn the truth. A U.S. inventor is the original rolling knife sharpener inventor. The original “Rolling” sharpener was never invented by Germans, it was invented by An American DECADES before HORL.
SOMEONE GET THIS GUY A SPONSOR!
I recently purchased the Tumbler from an IG ad, and I literally just used it for the first time this morning on my Cutco chef's knife. I only made a few passes to test it, and it worked pretty well. But I definitely wish I had seen this video prior to my purchase. You convinced me to look at the Hone. Great review!
Definitely check out Hone. The new ceramic is coming out and that will be perfect to use all the time for regular honing
Make sure to look at the description as I have a discount code in one of them. I don’t make a dime, just doing to get folks a very reasonably priced good sharpener.
Only fitting. With the Tumbler and Costco knives, you brought two over-hyped, over-priced mediocre-quality products together.
Tumbler is rocking it because of TikTok I bet there will be some customers that will regret it if they see this video, I will definitely get the Hone
Several bought Hone on my live last week apparently. 15k were on the live I did on TikTok. Hone did a great job.
This video deserves a positive comment. Well done sir.
Thank you sir, much appreciated!
+@Iamjasonallen thank you so much. I really appreciate the comment!
Thanks! That was a really helpful in-depth review. I appreciate the comparison as well as the pros/cons and the detail on all of the features. Very informative!
Thank you very much. I have a new comparison with others coming out soon. Hope you subscribe and enjoy!
I purchased the hone and pro kit due to your reviews, it should be in tomorrow thank you!
Awesome. I am releasing a new video on the new 2000 grit and extender that was just released.
@@UkuleleJayBBQ awesome can’t wait to see it!
Excellent, in-depth review. I was worried that Tumbler wouldn’t work on my small kitchen knives. All its advertising is with a large chefs knife. You perfectly demonstrated how both products work with small knives. Thks
Thank you. Yes the Tumbler is horrible with small knives and has very weak magnets.
I did purchase the Tumblr AMA I am NOT happy with it! It is very difficult to use. Wish I had seen your video BEFORE I ordered it, but I will be looking for the HONE and purchasing that one. Great video and your explanation was spot on!
The HONE is fantastic and now with 4 grits out and a 5th coming, it will be extremely complete. I love the new 3000 ceramic. Now they have 200, 400, 1000, 3000 ceramic and soon adding a 700 which is a great progression in my opinon. Yeah a lot of folks are switching.
Been sharpening knives for 50 years, and the Tumbler works VERY well for its intended use. I am sure the Hone does too. Once I bought the additional angle magnet tool for my tumbler i have even more versatility. I was able to do even more. I am not sure this review covers all of the accessories tumbler now has. It should.
I did a shoot out with Tumbler, HONE and Work Sharp rolling sharpeners few weeks ago. Not sure you watched that one? The Tumbler has been surpassed in nearly every area in testing as was demonstrated. Glad it works for you. Whatever folks enjoy they should use if it works for them. Appreciate your comment!
I recently bought a Tumbler plus a Tumbler strop, and then saw this video, returned the Tumbler (kept the strop) explaining why I was returning the Tumbler. Tumbler were as good as their word, and refunded my $$ (including shipping). I ordered the Hone and it arrived A WEEK BEFORE I expected it!!! Thanks again for sharing your video! (BTW I gave Tumbler a fair review as far as their service/customer-support is concerned) 😊
Sounds good! Lot’s of versatility with HONE and now the two new items coming out are really going to be fantastic. Should be getting my hands on them in a few weeks to test.
+@WilHenDavis 👍🏼
Wow! I have been researching tumbler vs horl, but after seeing this great info video, now it’s for sure horl vs hone. Thank you!
I completely agree but I think Hone takes it with the innovative interchangeable diamond discs and their holder. That is just wow.
I am pretty sure Horl also has interchangeable discs. At least when I am looking at Horl 2 it does.@@UkuleleJayBBQ
@@godstormm they do at 4x the cost of Hone
Thanks for the review and helpful info in your comment responses, helped make decision. I just received my order, one for me and one for my son. Also appreciate your discount code.
Am curious if the change in grit on the #1 disc to what seems like 50% of what it was, is normal. I only sharpened 3 larger knives and a pearing knife.
Hi Luiz, my pleasure, that's great you are getting him into maintaining his knives. What a great dad! ;-). Yes in my comprehnsive "How to Video" I talk about the grits. That is common with everya disc, diamond stone, or other coated stones. When you first use it, they will sound REALLY rough on like the 200, 400 and a little less on the 700. The finer the abrasive the less you experience that feeling but it still occurs. Totally normal. A few new accessories coming out soon so hope you subscribe to my channel as I have a lot more videos coming out this years on many different things with the HONE. Cheers!
Loved this review!
Thanks a million! Appreciate the feedback.
I wish there was a discount code to pass along before Christmas.😊
Try UKULELEJAYBBQ and see if that works. There was a code in my other HONE videos too which might work. Keep in mind it ships from where it's assembled in Canada and my experience is everyone is waiting about 2 weeks to get it so not sure it would make it to you for Christmas but if for you, it could be a late Christmas present ;-)
Another really good video, this channel is fantastic.
Thanks so much for your support. I really appreciate it!
I think for any roller sharpening tool that has ball bearings and Neodynium magnets will be a winner.
Depends on how they do the bearing, what materials are used to hold the bearings and many other factors that need to be tested, but that's a good start for sure.
Hone for the win!
@@wg5768 agree!! They really nailed it.
Dò you have a video on the WorkSharp rolling knìfe sharpener?
Yes I do, and I am releasing a comparison of three rolling knife sharpeners very soon including Home, Worksharp and one other.
I need your advice and experience on wether to get a Hone or a Chef’sChoice Trizor 15XV Professional for my Shun knives. I also have a few german lesser quality knives.
thank you
I Cade. I do not like those spinning disc models for a lot of reasons. For manual sharpening of 15 or 20 degree blades, HONE is great. They have 200, 400, 1000, just released their 3000 ceramic grit which I would use on my Shun (I love Shun btw) and will do so once I get the 3000 in hand. They are also going to release some other grits as well so you can incrementally start where you want and go up in grit on a nice gradual increase rather than a huge jump.
Those electric pull throughs like the Trizor take a lot of metal off if you are not careful and I have seen people ruin the edge by holding it too long or not pulling through evenly and then the blade is not even. You also get the fixed grits and the ceramic wheel which keep in mind you get metal build up (you'll see the black) and cleaning it is a pain. The HONE you just pop out the disc, give it a wash/dry and pop it back on. The Trizor will sharpen faster but speed isn't my motivation, it's getting that nice razor sharp edge. Keep in mind once your knife is sharp, you'll only need to use the 3000 ceramic every few uses and it will keep that blade aligned and sharp for months most likely. Most people don't realize (I never did at first) that honing and stropping are all you need for a long time. Actually sharpening your blade with a "sharpener" isn't needed regularly so make sure you get a good leather strop like this: amzn.to/3RexKLb and you'll be all set. Hope this helps?
Thanks for the detailed reply!
one more question please.
What discs would you recommend me getting for my Shun knives at 1st with he HONE? They are not dull now just not very sharp.@@UkuleleJayBBQ
@@cadefoster9279 I would first use the 3000 ceramic and leather strop. It should restore it to really really sharp.
I have never been proficient at sharpening knives. After seeing some videos on both the Horl and Tumbler, I purchased a Tumbler about 3 weeks ago (ordered 8-5-23, received 8-12-23) and decided to return it for a refund (8-28-23) even before seeing this product. The deciding factor was cost -- the Horl is $200-$400+ and I couldn't justify it. The Tumbler was $98. And I paid an additional $29 for a strop.
I'm glad I made the decision. The single biggest problem with the Tumbler is the magnets on the holder base. I could not get it to hold knives securely, especially my German knives with wide base at the tang, and my Dalstrong paring knife which doesn't reach the top of the Tumbler holder. I had a lot of trouble trying to hold both the knives to keep them from sliding on the magnet base and the base itself.
After watching a different video by Ukelele Jay, I made the purchase for $105 with free shipping. The Hone features are superior to both Tumbler and Horl (not to mention the cost is much lower than the Horl). Looking forward to receiving my Hone sharpener in about 7-10 days. (BTW, I kept the Tumbler strop because Hone doesn't offer one.)
Glad you saw the video. The HONE is a complete system and the larger discs are nice. There are good strops on Amazon in my store that work great. amazon.com/shop/ukulelejaybbq and go to the knife sharpening section and scroll down.
We are working on designing our HONE Strop. We would like to offer a 3x8 inch HONE Strop with bamboo wood base and anti-slip pad at the bottom. Providing just a piece of leather like Tumbler and HORL won’t meet our quality standards as the strop needs to be raised from the countertop and should not slip during use due to safety reasons. Our HONE Strop will be available for purchase on our website in a few weeks.
@@HONE-Knife-Sharpener great news and perfect size!
Great review. Thanks.
Thank you for watching. Much appreciated!
I have the Tumbler and I liked it until humidity stopped it rolling! The design wasn't thought out very well.
Agree. Same here. Was ok at first then also got very squeaky. The HONE eliminates all those issues as it's 100% aluminium with ball bearings. Will never wear out. Also has numerous discs and the new AngleMate strips are fantastic. I think it's a fantastic rolling sharpener. Have done dozens of knives with mine, zero issues.
Have you tried ÌMPRESSA Wood lubricant to silence the tumbler?
No I don’t use the Tumbler at all any longer. I use the Hone. Much better (all aluminum and steel) never a squeak issue and so many more options for grits and angles.
Disappointing to be successfully sold on a product (making me not want the tumbler) to realise Hone don't ship to UK yet 😅
Edit: saw your amazon store, ordered from amazon US - can't wait!
Awesome thanks! Hone now has 5 grits available from 200 to 3000 ceramic. You will love Hone, they really nailed it. I have a 3 way shootout review coming out soon you will enjoy.
Ordered one across to Australia, should arrive next month 👍
You ordered the HONE yes?
@@UkuleleJayBBQ definitely 👍
@@inkyste8078 fantastic. I really like mine
@@UkuleleJayBBQ looks really good, I spoke with them and they said the ceramic disc should be ready soon too!
@@inkyste8078 yes. They have the 200 grit, 400 & 1000 and will have a 2000 as well. Will be all anyone needs. I got a dull knife razor sharp with the 400/1000. Solid unit!
How about a comparison between the Horn and the Horl 2. Both have been compared to the tumbler and beat it by far. But which one is better!?
I spoke with HORL did not want to provide a unit for testing. A three way shootout is being released in about a week or so (shooting it now) between Tumbler, HONE and Work Sharp rolling knife sharpeners. Stay tuned, it’s an extremely comprehensive video!
At 00:45 The statement, “I don’t care what videos show you” is the beginning of a very misleading statement. NOWHERE in tumblers videos does it say you can sharpen a knife in just a few strokes. Any person who knows how to properly sharpen a knife would not even think this would be a case.
Tumbler clearly states it may take “up to” five minutes to achieve the desired sharpness on a damaged or ill kept knife. However, if your well maintained knife is already at 15 or 20 degrees it may not take long at all to get the benefits of a fine grain 2000 grit sharpener. once I had all of the knives in our kitchen up to snuff the Tumbler does exactly what was claimed to do, and it does it very well.
“Once up to snuff” as you said is key. That is not sharpening a “dull knive at 1000 on the BESS tester and taking it to razor sharp. For the most part but no one starts sharpening knives at 2000 grit. You are nearing honing range. It cannot compete in my opinion with the the Work Sharp or HONE as was demonstrated in the recent 3 way shoot out. It is underperforming in nearly all aspects based on extensive sharpening with all of these devices. I just report what the tests have demonstrated. Thanks for the comment!
Do you have a link or something to find the hone sharpener because i cant find it
Just added to the description thanks! honesharp.com/products/hone-knife-sharpener
It would be cool if the discs had different grits on each side.
Then you are back to just a single disc. I think this keeps the cost reasonable for the consumer.
Rolling sharpener are getting popular... theres 2 Chinese version too.. both Chinese version has 6 different grit. Diamond or whetstone..
I just want to see a adjustable knife holder....and a 25° and 30°
They already are working on something that will allow you to use the same holder to do other angles 😎 This will also have many to choose from. Should be available soon.
The Tumbler is the chinese version... Its a copy of Horl
@@Oomph6006it’s outdated already and I consider Tumbler obsolete. HONE is state of the are (not HORL buT HONE). Not a knock off. Designed and assembled from the ground up in Canada. 1/3 the price if HORL with more features.
The Hone Rolling Knife Sharpener - Is It The New King Of Knife Sharpeners?
ua-cam.com/video/fOE8BW1g4LA/v-deo.html and comparison here:
The Tumbler Or Hone Rolling Sharpener - Which One Is Better?
ua-cam.com/video/58-RSgMwf60/v-deo.html
@@UkuleleJayBBQ Still Tumbler is a Chinese copy of the German Horl.
Made in China for bigger profit..
There are* two Chinese versions*, too.* Both* Chinese versions* have* six different grits*.
Can I send back my tumbler?
Have no idea. I have no affiliation with Tumbler.
Read my reply above! I found Tumbler's customer-service to be v.good! Good luck!
They only ship to us and Canada 😢
Bummer, sorry! Maybe a friend in US or Canada can receive it and forward it to you. My friend in El Salvador gets his purchases via a friend in New York so I know it’s possible.
@@UkuleleJayBBQ I just got it, tho did get taxed twice, almost the same price as Horl2 at the end XP
@@Stevedawhoop the governments love to take our money!
You always show how something does not work on the Tumbler, then say how it works well on the Hone, but you never show how well it works on the Hone.
Please see my 3 way shootout video on the Work Sharp, HONE and Tumbler rolling sharpeners. You’ll see it there. Thanks for watching!
My tumbler not rolling any more don't know after a month
I have heard this happening. The Tumbler is now obsolete for many reasons. Check out the HONE which just came out. I tossed my Tumbler.
BEST HIGH END ROLLING KNIFE SHARPENER REVIEW. IS THE HONE THE NEW KING ROLLING KNIFE SHARPENER?
ua-cam.com/video/fOE8BW1g4LA/v-deo.html
The Tumbler Or Hone Rolling Sharpener - Which One Is Better?
ua-cam.com/video/58-RSgMwf60/v-deo.html
@@UkuleleJayBBQ don't tossed it... Open it up and show us what's inside.
@@ICheat_ILie_ISteal that’s a great idea…need to do that!
Maybe look at the horl 2 it’s the German original all the other companies are knockoffs
@@rushiwar6107 sorry they are not the original rolling knife sharpener. You may want to watch my video so you can stop repeating what you hear others repeating incorrectly and learn the truth. A U.S. inventor is the original rolling knife sharpener inventor. The original “Rolling” sharpener was never invented by Germans, it was invented by An American DECADES before HORL.
@@UkuleleJayBBQ ahh ok thank you