i'm 72 and i have leaned so much by watching vidoes. i have allways worked on my own cars. because of your vidoes, i am getting a ocilloscope, this will be fun.
Ive owned several Kia / Hyundai cars over the last 15 years , I dont think they are any less reliable than other makes. After all Eric O's lovely wife drives one so cant be all bad
Awesome video Ivan , I've been a mechanic for 30 years now and watching your channel for a few years . I have honed my diagnosis procedures . Always love the content 👍
Ditto. 35 years in the shop here. Ivan, Eric and Dan. These 3 guys have excellent skills and they are thorough in their diagnostics and explanations. I recommended all 3 channels for my son who is taking over when I retire. ;)
@@Ismail-1983 Yeah, what he said. Eric O over at SMA. Scanner Danner is who I meant by Dan. I was still only halfway into that first cup and wasnt up to all that typing yet. LOL!!
@@billmonroe8826 Absolutely not. All of my boys are in the trades. 2 in auto repair and one in HVAC. This is not a glorious job but if a man is good at it he can make a fine living. ;) Not to mention they will be a lot handier to have around than say a Geology major.
I recently did a set of injectors on a Sonata. They came with the seals already installed and sized. Reused the outer seal that keeps debris out because they were backordered. Injectors pulled out relatively easily by hand and installed easily by hand. No special tools needed.
I have a Hyundai Veracruz from Florida it was owned by some people who actually took care of it it has over 200,000 miles it’s a 3.8 V6 and it runs awesome we just took it out for a 4 hour trip last night to a place called Jenison Michigan and we went on the Grand Lady river paddleboat. Hand built by 1 man! There is a beautiful well-maintained campground and if you get a chance you should definitely camp there. The man’s name is Captain Bill. He was a pilot for 30 years and built the airport campground and he owns 1 mile of river front on the grand river. Tickets for the river boat were only $20! Anyway off subject I love your videos Ivan!! Maybe one day we’ll get to meet ,it would be my pleasure!
Direct Injection was supposed to be the cure all to several problems but, it is the problem! The manufacturers did not do enough research to see how diesel injectors last so long. Couple that with the bean counters cutting costs and......1 broken Hyundai!
I honestly belive petrol and direct injectors dont mix well(since the fuel bearly has any lubricating propretis and the injectors are tight tolerances)
OE’s love the control that it gives them in the chamber though. It’s unlikely port injection will ever make a come back despite many drawbacks from a cost of ownership point of view.
I'd be curious to know if its just cheap poor quality parts that are the problem (like is the norm for the automotive industry these days) or the ethanol content of the fuel or if it is just the technology itself which isn't viable. I know on the Toyota's they mix port and direct injectors partly for performance reasons and also probably to stop carbon build up in the intake. At the rate they seem to fail I really can't believe that it produces any savings or emissions savings overall because the parts have a relatively short life.
where i worked my boss said it's the customers car if they want to check on how it's being repaired, they can as we are doing the job correct, we have nothing to hide
My wife loves the Hyundai six cylinder SUVs. We have purchased two Santa Fe's and we now have a 2022 Palisade. We don't keep the cars past 90K miles. The last one was traded at 87K and we got $15.5 K for it on trade. We haven't paid for car repairs for probably the last twenty years.
I just went through this problem on my car, cylinder 3. Here's what I did to fix it. 1. New MAP/MAF sensor 2. New Coil 3. New spark plugs Went to local parts shop and borrowed the code reader and reset the codes. Drives perfect now.
Ran into the same problen with the Azera, i noticed only four humps on some of the injectors, good ones produce 13 humps, the new injectors from the dealer already has the seals on them, about a 2hr job. Not bad of a job. Good job explaining this situation.
Hyundai Kia removed knock detection and misfire detection to hide engine mechanical issues. I have a customer who has driven a 1.6L turbo Optima for over a thousand kilometers with a severe rod knock because the dealership told them they didn't have time to look at it so keep driving it and we will call you. The car had a shake and misfire because the knocking got so bad and the check engine light never came on.
On a GDI car with such symptoms , I'd quickly go to live data to observe fuel rail pressure while KOEO if it drops quickly after the pump is primed then it is most likely a leaky injector. Also Ivan I think u forgot to quote him the possibly cooked o2 sensors. Great intriguing diag process, Thank u very much.
Another great video Sir. I just wonder, everytime I watch you work, how few mechanics can actually do this? Utilizing the software and having electrical engineering skills and the hands on experience? The trifecta that makes you great. I get this feeling that most mechanics are just parts guessing off of a scan tool. You seem to be setting a new standard for the future mechanics. But I sit here most days absolutely dumfounded and overwhelmed at how far cars have removed my ability to work on them. I'm just a parts cannon homeowner that tries to repair everything I own. But not counting my over engineered 21' RAV4, my newest car is a 2010. The glory years for even Toyota are over. Anyway, a lot to unravel, but bottom line, you are teaching us all the new way of diagnosis. Thank you for all you do.
Absolutely! Ivan comes from the other side of understand electrical items, and knowing mechanical things. After all, when one is from Russia, they do "Russian repairs" if required! LoL 😂
Before i watch your videos i have to clear my thoughts so i can follow along. Ive been a mechanic for many years but i love your in depth diagnostic videos.
I have been messing around with my dad's last new car, 92 Acclaim, trying to get it back on the road. Novice with scopes(cheap Hantek here) but did injector wave-forms for all 6(3.0L)and found cyl. #3 had a similar waveform(to yours) that was different than the others. Not knowing any better, I bought a cheap set of inj. off of ebay, but(of course) it did nothing to solve #3 issue(and obviously could have added to my headaches). I reloaded the parts cannon by buying a used PCM which(at least for now)seems to have fixed the issue(bad #3 inj. driver?). Car has other issues, but I'm(slowly)learning along the way...even at my age(thanks to folks like you). Know the systems, have a plan, work the plan...but be prepared for the unexpected/invitations to rabbit holes, particularly when looking for the easy fix/etc..
I wonder if all that fuel dumping into that cylinder has: 1: messed up the catalytic converter which will probably fail prematurely $$$$ 2: washed out the oil from the cylinder walls leading to scoring and oil consumption $$$$$ Get rid of it.
Especially considering its a Hyundai - they are nice enough vehicles and are cheap for what you get but they are designed to last for about 7 years/100,000 miles and then they drop to pieces. In the UK that is their warranty period and from what I have seen it gets a bit of use.
The way I understand these Hyundais, they DO NOT have conventional fuel injection. They have gasoline-direct injection. Hence the special tools. Just think of all the traction he got in the snow! Great video!
@Jonathan A Yes, and many of them have conventional fuel injection as well as gasoline direct-injection because of problems with carbon build-up due to no fuel passing over the intake valves. These older Hyundais have only gasoline direct-injection. LOL.
The new injector usually comes with new seals on it. I've done these. Most of the time you can just pull the old one out slide the new one in with just your hands. Just don't use any lubricant. And make sure the bore is clean.
@@dans_Learning_Curve Nope. The factory doesn't use it. It's not an o-ring. Lubricating it will actually compromise the seal. Think of it as press on seal. Like a wheel bearing. There may be some out there. Idk every manufacturers procedure. But all the ones I've done GM, BMW, Mercedes, VW, Kia and Hyundai no lubricant.
@@edwinlomonacofoolsend ok. It'll be some time before I owe a direct injection gas engine. Check out my 1958 carbureted Plymouth Suburban. ua-cam.com/video/9jJxV_qSNmg/v-deo.html
It’s not too bad. Looks like the same kind of seals as on GM injectors and I’ve changed quite a few of those. There are ways to do it without getting the special tools although it’s easier to just get them especially seeing how more and more engines are going to direct injection and you’ll surely need them again at some point.
I wouldn't call this a "come back". It's more of a repeat customer scenario. But wow! Dead GDI fuel injector on a Hyundai V6? I've never done one of those.
The people using those "low polution" technologies are eating the cost of the idea, but the factories that produce toxic crap and polute much more than cars are doing great.Soon the "electric vehicle era" will arrive and guess who will pay?Lets save the world !!! Another cool video Ivan ✊
Wow! That was a close examination of the waveform for the diagnosis! I think you nailed it, when most folks would not look so closely/ Looking forward to the repair, but it will be pretty anticlimactic after that diagnosis.
Absolutely the best advice you gave this customer was to rid himself of vehicle while it was running well. I made the very bad mistake of buying a brand new Hyundai Group car (2016 Kia Soul). I am very meticulous when it comes to maintenance on my cars and my Kia Soul lasted exactly 70k before it left me on the side of the expressway in a puddle of oil & a brand viewing window in the block.
Yes I checked my oil regularly and most of the time would service it myself. I became concerned when I saw what I believed to be excessive oil usage. I was concerned enough that I took to the dealership and they performed an oil consumption test. Of course they claimed that what I was seeing was "normal". This is probably why I got no push back whatsoever when I filed my warranty claim. They did ask for any documentation for maintenance records. I guess I have to give them credit for honoring their powertrain warranty but then again they should. Within 2 weeks of getting the vehicle back with the remanufactured engine I unloaded the Kia (no) Soul.
I understand why the manufactures went to DI, but port injection fuel injectors, and the whole FI system, is so much more reliable. I really don’t believe petrol lends itself to such a high pressure system.
It is a bummer when your vehicle breaks down again, however it may very well be more cost effective to repair than replace a vehicle. Especially in this instance where it is an unrelated issue. Injectors do fail, to be honest an injector fail would be far more palatable than the previous fail on this vehicle. Though at $200 an injector, I can understand why the customer inly wants to replace the faulty one. It isn't as if one failure means the rest are on the way to failure. All in all a regrettable failure in this instance. Great diagnosis method Ivan. Very quick & cost friendly for your customer - The diagnosis time I mean.
Should replace them all, imo. All of them are just as old and unreliable. With the labor involved to replace one, you'd be very angry if 6 months later that labor had to be done all over again for another injector.
@@bills6093 I wouldn't be very angry, at best I would be annoyed at myself. There are many other things in life one could consider one would be "very angry" at, the decision not to replace all injectors at the same time is not one of those situations.
Wow, at first i thought it would be the cam related issue as of the raw gas and blue smoke, lack of power etc. I kept wondering too. But glad that is completely unrelated problem! Nice scope reading of the pindle hump compared from 3 to 5. I wondered how many hours to tear into it and replace and reassembly etc? Awesome video Ivan! Favorite part of the video is the scope showing the injectors firing and timing to fire etc.
Ivaaano , you being you again, awesome! when are you visiting Staten island tho?, that place is like Hollywood for us box office but for diag videos hahah kudos from Ethiopia✌✌
If he's going to keep the car he might consider doing them all. If he's going to sell it, do one injector and put a for sale sign on it immediately and never own another Hyundai. lol
Hello Ivan, First of all, I enjoy all your videos since you make videos that are actually real world scenarios with ups and down. I have been wrenching for 20+ years and sometime you run into these special tools dilemma. Usually these tools cost a fortune from oem manufactures. What is your thought of buying these oddball oem required tools required to do this job? Would a customer be responsible for the cost of the tool or do you invest and buy the oem tool your self and hope you can break even with few similar jobs in the future?
i just started working on a 2022 with a misfire and smoke at work. one of that spark plugs were defective, one had a broken ceramic sleeve isolating the spark, and still trying to figure out the source of the smoke but the engine is probably toast, it was low 2 quarts of oil and it only takes 4. probably burned some of it and the rest was covering the underside of the vehicle and sides of the engine, it was a lot more smoke than you had in this video.
So you are saying, "its a Hyundai" as far as the level of repairs it is needing. That said, is there a point where you get through the repairs and it is dependable again for a few years? Again, going back to my 22 year old Chrysler, it has had a few hiccups in that time where it needed several thousand dollars worth of repairs in one year, but once we got through that it only needed maintenance repairs for several years. It never cost as much in one year as a payment on a newer vehicle would have cost. I think the most we ever spent in one year was $2000, and that was way less than the payments on a new van would have been for one year. So the question is, do you pony up the money for the repairs, knowing that you will most likely get several years of dependable service on the other side of it (never certain, but probable), or do you not repair, knowing that at this point, the vehicle is most likely junk, and will never be dependable again?
Ivan, another great video!! One question, I don't think I've seen you use the "Cylinder Balance" feature on the ThinkTool... I've found that very useful to find a direction to go in. I used your link when I purchased my Thinktool Pro... Great decision!!!
again Ivan thanks for sharing can't wait to see the outcome but as you stated the way the cars are now designed for a point that is it really worth to repair the vehicle from the owners perpective ?? ! not counting all the shops that mis diagose that leave customer stranded ! I remember when you had that Lincoln with the parasitic drain yes you spend the time but how many customers want to pic up there car at 5 o clock !
Hi IVAN .please answer me,i've got confused how the mechanical problem on the pintle or broken return spring could effect on the shape of the ramp,my consideration is that the shape of the ramp would only got effected by electrical element like injector driver ic that activate or deactivate the injector .my experience is on a bad transmission sol with a sized pintle but it had no difference in terms of current ramp shape with a good one. Any explanation would be appreciated.
Moving moving pintle through a magnetic field will create an additional voltage "back EMF" that you can see as a "pintle hump" on the oscilloscope. Review your physics notes 😉
Unfortunately these are the problems we'll see as techs going forward. As government mandates lower emissions, car companies are coming up with new ways to try and meet those standards. At the end, it's the customer that is left footing the bill
@Jay, isn't DI more efficient under load? Ivan did mention 28mpg; show me another 3.0 V6 SUV getting that mileage? Kia/Hyundai vehicle owners, with that now infamous 2.4 I4, thought they'd be left holding the bag, too; 'till they got smart: got together, organized, and filed that law suit - Kia/Hyundai had to step-up. Diesels use DI, and they don't suffer that Hyundai's injector failure. Why didn't Hyundai use a known, trouble-free DI injector design? Money - the bottom line, that's why! Are their other vehicle manufacturers using petrol DI, and not in experiencing such DI failures? Of course they are! It's Hyundai's fault, not DI technology; nor certainly not the Govt's. What I'd love to see is Ivan cut open that faulty injector and do a post mortem. Did the spring break, or just weaken? Is there data out there on DI injector spring specifications (length, compression strength, etc). Something kept that pintle open: weak/broken spring, computer, maybe? I'm still waiting for him to disect that Lexus transmission... Plenty of those still in service.
$258 US dollars for one OEM fuel injector not counting the massive tear down just to replace. The how long before another one fails. The high cost of maintenance on these vehicles overshadows the low purchase cost.
Oh man, poor Dave, , it's a friggin dilemma,,, there is a chance that when that 1 injector is done the thing will go for years and be an excellent vehicle,,, but if it was MY vehicle and I did that it would be the beginning of a tragic wallet draining tear filled journey... lol
I think my car has a bad injector, not as bad as this car though (although it is also cylinder 5). The shops all tell me no codes no problem, but it misfires only at idle on one cylinder. Long crank/hard starts + smoke occasionally. Bank 1 is pulling a ton of fuel out, its LTFT is like -15% all the time. It idles so bad, but naturally all of the shops that its been to "can't replicate the problem". I'm considering just replacing all 6 myself and calling it a day. My misfire count is just below the threshold to set a code so nobody cars about it.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics no sir it's a Cadillac XTS. I've been struggling with this issue for months and I just can't find a good shop that will actually troubleshoot it. It's to the point where I bought a cheap autel scanner just to log the misfires and then discovered it's losing a lot of fuel pressure over night. Cyl 5 will have some gas in it in the morning. Apparently it's a big pain in the butt to get the injectors out of this thing though so if I do one it's going to be all 6.
With all the labor required to get to the injectors, its more prudent to replace all 3 injectors...especially if he plans to drive it. Expensive injectors BTW.
Yes, that is the correct decision. He'll be very angry if that labor has to be done all over again in a few months. All the injectors are the same age and type, so it wouldn't surprise anyone if another one failed in a couple months.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yes. all 6 would be best, but those three at a minimum. Perhaps there is a problem with heat or something on the rear bank? Plus you did have a reported #3 misfire, which might have been that injector getting ready to quit. But, it's not our car.
Maybe someone can enlighten me? What advantage is direct injection over port injection? Cost, failure rate, difficulty of serviceability, deposits building up on intake valves....why are the manufacturers doing this?
combine that with the toxic mix of EGR exhaust fumes mixing with PCV crankcase oily fumes, forming a carbon sludge gradually blocking intake system.....seems all postive here :)
Much better fuel economy, performance and emissions. Carbon buildup can be an issue, though less so if well maintained and using synthetic oil. Injector failures like this don't seem very common.
Just when you thought it was safe to run away.... It's Back !! lol. Was there any crud in the fuel that might semi block the injectors? Don't they charge the earth for injectors, he could get a nice bicycle for less than one injector lol 😀
Not al Hyundai's are bad we have a 2008 Sonata V6 with 260k miles we have had to do superficial stuff like a radiator and water pump but engine has never been opened and passes emissions every 2 years.
I think Ivan has said before that the system occasionally reports the wrong cylinder misfiring. But I see where you are going, I think. Is #3 injector getting ready to fail?
JUST THE FUEL RAIL PRESSURE REQUIRED SCARE THE HELL OUT OF ME!!! 2,000 TO 3,000 PSI!!!!! High pressure pumps are $$$$ and the injectors are $$$.. So what benefit do you get?? about 3-4% efficiency..THATS ALL!!
Better not work on any modern diesels then, they get up to around 30,000 PSI and if you think parts are expensive for GDI better not look up parts prices for diesels.......
@@lustfulvengance Diesel fuel is NOT GAS!! Gas at those pressures is close to ignition!! Let alone a fuel leak.. Spray high pressure gas all over the engine compartment.. Do you understand what a Octane rating is?? Reg Gas 87... Diesel 20-30!! ( the conversion of a diesel's cetane number ((40-55)) to Octane is approximate) Having high pressure flammable fuel flying around under the hood is a recipe for disaster.
Put an ignition source near highly atomized diesel fuel at 30000 psi and tell me how not flammable it is! The risk of liquid injection injuries greatly increases with an increase in pressure as well. My statement holds true, this guy is afraid of GDI, he better not get near a modern common rail diesel 🤣🤣🤣
@@lustfulvengance GAS is 100 times more dangerous than Diesel AT ANY PRESSURE and even at 30,000 psi DIESEL is less flammable then GAS.. Get a degree before you spew..
@@jwray9799 Dangerous is a relative term, water is dangerous in certain instances! Diesel fuel may be slightly harder to ignite but it also contains a lot more energy, it will burn a lot hotter once it is ignited and believe me highly pressurized atomized diesel fuel is anything but difficult to ignite! Nobody's debating whether or not highly pressurized fuel is dangerous, I was simply stating that modern common rail diesels present more of a risk and are also significantly more expensive to repair. I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to achieve with your argument here 🤔🤔🤔
@@braaapattack2937 There are lots of Teslas 10 years old and older that are still running fine. I'm sure there are a few with "shot" batteries. BTW, how many gas powered cars have blown engines after 10 years? How many before? Home many happen after the warranty period? Tesla warranties the batter for 8 years. What's the warranty on a gas powered engine?
@@GerardPinzone 12 year old toyota here, hasn’t blown a motor, basic maintenance is cheap. Electric batteries are about as good for the environment as a car from the 20’s. Electric energy isn’t made by pixie dust, and batteries arnt renewable. You can keep your electric garbage, I’ll keep my good ol piston engine and enjoy driving.
@@braaapattack2937 Wow, your anecdotal evidence about one 12-year old Toyota is amazing. Here's my counter-evidence: Every video in this channel ever. *Mic drop*
That is simply because of a bad maintenance culture in NZ, many people only spend money when their car breaks. They just limp from one yearly safety inspection to the next. Also do not forget that NZ does NOT have right to repair, in layman's terms; automotive workshops do not have access to OEM service and repair information or tools. With the rubbish build quality of vehicles today it's a miracle if a car here makes it to 200 K.
Are people buying into the 10k oil change there? Because everybody I ask to will not go over 5k most do 3k like me good number over 200k miles. Even if the car isn't hardly driven still once every 6 months it'll get changed. Heat breaks down oil wether heat from motor or environmental plus condensation e.t.c.
@@frizzlefry1921 My Toyota Venza V6, has 320,000 miles. Mixed city/hwy. Oil changed (by me) every 10k miles with Mobil 1 full synthetic and an OEM oil filter. It burns no oil between changes. I’ve had zero engine problems. Nothing wrong with 10k mile OCI, if using quality oil and filter. I bought this car brand new. I have the proof sitting in my garage that it is ok, but people still don’t want to believe.
i'm 72 and i have leaned so much by watching vidoes. i have allways worked on my own cars. because of your vidoes, i am getting a ocilloscope, this will be fun.
When your mechanic says, "while this is running good, you should sell it, listen and be afraid."
Great work Ivan!
Ive owned several Kia / Hyundai cars over the last 15 years , I dont think they are any less reliable than other makes. After all Eric O's lovely wife drives one so cant be all bad
They are good enough - general rule of thumb is to change them every 7 years.
Awesome video Ivan , I've been a mechanic for 30 years now and watching your channel for a few years . I have honed my diagnosis procedures . Always love the content 👍
Ditto. 35 years in the shop here. Ivan, Eric and Dan. These 3 guys have excellent skills and they are thorough in their diagnostics and explanations. I recommended all 3 channels for my son who is taking over when I retire. ;)
@@Ismail-1983 Yeah, what he said. Eric O over at SMA. Scanner Danner is who I meant by Dan. I was still only halfway into that first cup and wasnt up to all that typing yet. LOL!!
@@farmermiyagi1338 I figured Dan was DiagnoseDan. He's good too.
You didn't talk your son into a different career? lol
@@billmonroe8826 Absolutely not. All of my boys are in the trades. 2 in auto repair and one in HVAC. This is not a glorious job but if a man is good at it he can make a fine living. ;) Not to mention they will be a lot handier to have around than say a Geology major.
I recently did a set of injectors on a Sonata. They came with the seals already installed and sized. Reused the outer seal that keeps debris out because they were backordered. Injectors pulled out relatively easily by hand and installed easily by hand. No special tools needed.
I have a Hyundai Veracruz from Florida it was owned by some people who actually took care of it it has over 200,000 miles it’s a 3.8 V6 and it runs awesome we just took it out for a 4 hour trip last night to a place called Jenison Michigan and we went on the Grand Lady river paddleboat. Hand built by 1 man! There is a beautiful well-maintained campground and if you get a chance you should definitely camp there. The man’s name is Captain Bill. He was a pilot for 30 years and built the airport campground and he owns 1 mile of river front on the grand river. Tickets for the river boat were only $20! Anyway off subject I love your videos Ivan!! Maybe one day we’ll get to meet ,it would be my pleasure!
Direct Injection was supposed to be the cure all to several problems but, it is the problem!
The manufacturers did not do enough research to see how diesel injectors last so long. Couple that with the bean counters cutting costs and......1 broken Hyundai!
The switch to direct injection has been nothing but problems. They don't last long at all compared to port injectors.
And they have had to add back in secondary port injectors to stop the carbon build up issues on the valves. Beggars belief.
I honestly belive petrol and direct injectors dont mix well(since the fuel bearly has any lubricating propretis and the injectors are tight tolerances)
These are great for supercars.
OE’s love the control that it gives them in the chamber though. It’s unlikely port injection will ever make a come back despite many drawbacks from a cost of ownership point of view.
I'd be curious to know if its just cheap poor quality parts that are the problem (like is the norm for the automotive industry these days) or the ethanol content of the fuel or if it is just the technology itself which isn't viable. I know on the Toyota's they mix port and direct injectors partly for performance reasons and also probably to stop carbon build up in the intake. At the rate they seem to fail I really can't believe that it produces any savings or emissions savings overall because the parts have a relatively short life.
That Pico scope is sweet, unreal capture rate, scopes have come a long way from when I started using them, back in the early eighties. Great job!
Really cool non intrusive test process Ivan, excellent way to prove it wasn’t your issue after the last repair, well done 👏 👏👏
The angry mickey mouse shirt on the customer was perfect! Letting the customer hang out while you diag is commendable
where i worked my boss said it's the customers car if they want to check on how it's being repaired, they can as we are doing the job correct, we have nothing to hide
The owner is very lucky to have you nearby to diagnose his Lemon. Time to make Lemonade/ sell/ trade the car
My wife loves the Hyundai six cylinder SUVs. We have purchased two Santa Fe's and we now have a 2022 Palisade. We don't keep the cars past 90K miles. The last one was traded at 87K and we got $15.5 K for it on trade. We haven't paid for car repairs for probably the last twenty years.
I just went through this problem on my car, cylinder 3. Here's what I did to fix it.
1. New MAP/MAF sensor
2. New Coil
3. New spark plugs
Went to local parts shop and borrowed the code reader and reset the codes. Drives perfect now.
Ran into the same problen with the Azera, i noticed only four humps on some of the injectors, good ones produce 13 humps, the new injectors from the dealer already has the seals on them, about a 2hr job. Not bad of a job. Good job explaining this situation.
Hyundai Kia removed knock detection and misfire detection to hide engine mechanical issues. I have a customer who has driven a 1.6L turbo Optima for over a thousand kilometers with a severe rod knock because the dealership told them they didn't have time to look at it so keep driving it and we will call you. The car had a shake and misfire because the knocking got so bad and the check engine light never came on.
On a GDI car with such symptoms , I'd quickly go to live data to observe fuel rail pressure while KOEO if it drops quickly after the pump is primed then it is most likely a leaky injector.
Also Ivan I think u forgot to quote him the possibly cooked o2 sensors.
Great intriguing diag process, Thank u very much.
Hi Ivan, the way you find these faults is amazing. Many thanks from Nr Liverpool UK
Another great video Sir. I just wonder, everytime I watch you work, how few mechanics can actually do this? Utilizing the software and having electrical engineering skills and the hands on experience? The trifecta that makes you great. I get this feeling that most mechanics are just parts guessing off of a scan tool. You seem to be setting a new standard for the future mechanics. But I sit here most days absolutely dumfounded and overwhelmed at how far cars have removed my ability to work on them. I'm just a parts cannon homeowner that tries to repair everything I own. But not counting my over engineered 21' RAV4, my newest car is a 2010. The glory years for even Toyota are over.
Anyway, a lot to unravel, but bottom line, you are teaching us all the new way of diagnosis. Thank you for all you do.
Absolutely! Ivan comes from the other side of understand electrical items, and knowing mechanical things. After all, when one is from Russia, they do "Russian repairs" if required! LoL 😂
Seems the haunt is still there. Great reasoning to get to this one. Expensive and time consuming repair. Eagerly waiting for Part 2 🙂
Before i watch your videos i have to clear my thoughts so i can follow along. Ive been a mechanic for many years but i love your in depth diagnostic videos.
I have been messing around with my dad's last new car, 92 Acclaim, trying to get it back on the road. Novice with scopes(cheap Hantek here) but did injector wave-forms for all 6(3.0L)and found cyl. #3 had a similar waveform(to yours) that was different than the others. Not knowing any better, I bought a cheap set of inj. off of ebay, but(of course) it did nothing to solve #3 issue(and obviously could have added to my headaches). I reloaded the parts cannon by buying a used PCM which(at least for now)seems to have fixed the issue(bad #3 inj. driver?). Car has other issues, but I'm(slowly)learning along the way...even at my age(thanks to folks like you). Know the systems, have a plan, work the plan...but be prepared for the unexpected/invitations to rabbit holes, particularly when looking for the easy fix/etc..
I wonder if all that fuel dumping into that cylinder has:
1: messed up the catalytic converter which will probably fail prematurely $$$$
2: washed out the oil from the cylinder walls leading to scoring and oil consumption $$$$$
Get rid of it.
Especially considering its a Hyundai - they are nice enough vehicles and are cheap for what you get but they are designed to last for about 7 years/100,000 miles and then they drop to pieces. In the UK that is their warranty period and from what I have seen it gets a bit of use.
The way I understand these Hyundais, they DO NOT have conventional fuel injection. They have gasoline-direct injection. Hence the special tools. Just think of all the traction he got in the snow! Great video!
@Jonathan A Yes, and many of them have conventional fuel injection as well as gasoline direct-injection because of problems with carbon build-up due to no fuel passing over the intake valves. These older Hyundais have only gasoline direct-injection. LOL.
The new injector usually comes with new seals on it. I've done these. Most of the time you can just pull the old one out slide the new one in with just your hands. Just don't use any lubricant. And make sure the bore is clean.
Interesting you say no lubricant. Not saying you're wrong. Just saw many posts about that he should have used lube.
@@dans_Learning_Curve Nope. The factory doesn't use it. It's not an o-ring. Lubricating it will actually compromise the seal. Think of it as press on seal. Like a wheel bearing. There may be some out there. Idk every manufacturers procedure. But all the ones I've done GM, BMW, Mercedes, VW, Kia and Hyundai no lubricant.
@@edwinlomonacofoolsend ok. It'll be some time before I owe a direct injection gas engine. Check out my 1958 carbureted Plymouth Suburban. ua-cam.com/video/9jJxV_qSNmg/v-deo.html
I guess my main issue with DIG is serviceability and longevity, already expensive parts is one thing, labor cost adds up quickly
We get that same code a lot on Citroen’s / Peugeot’s here in the uk it relates to the high pressure fuel pump failure
It’s not too bad. Looks like the same kind of seals as on GM injectors and I’ve changed quite a few of those. There are ways to do it without getting the special tools although it’s easier to just get them especially seeing how more and more engines are going to direct injection and you’ll surely need them again at some point.
awesome video Mate, waiting for Part 2
At first I was lost but then I got it, towards the end, lol! Awesome Ivan!
I wouldn't call this a "come back". It's more of a repeat customer scenario. But wow! Dead GDI fuel injector on a Hyundai V6? I've never done one of those.
Fantastic video! You are a diagnostic genius!
The people using those "low polution" technologies are eating the cost of the idea, but the factories that produce toxic crap and polute much more than cars are doing great.Soon the "electric vehicle era" will arrive and guess who will pay?Lets save the world !!! Another cool video Ivan ✊
This Hyundai made so much smoke that it negated all the CLEAN AIR TECHNOLOGY 🤣🤣🤣
I just looked at the parts catalog, the injectior should come with all the seals installed if bought from Hyundai
Yes installed but not sized
Awesome scope diagnosis
Wow! That was a close examination of the waveform for the diagnosis! I think you nailed it, when most folks would not look so closely/ Looking forward to the repair, but it will be pretty anticlimactic after that diagnosis.
Absolutely the best advice you gave this customer was to rid himself of vehicle while it was running well. I made the very bad mistake of buying a brand new Hyundai Group car (2016 Kia Soul). I am very meticulous when it comes to maintenance on my cars and my Kia Soul lasted exactly 70k before it left me on the side of the expressway in a puddle of oil & a brand viewing window in the block.
Was it using oil?
EDIT
Do you check your oil or do you rely on it being okay until the next oil change?
Shouldn't that be a warranty engine replacement?
Yes I checked my oil regularly and most of the time would service it myself. I became concerned when I saw what I believed to be excessive oil usage. I was concerned enough that I took to the dealership and they performed an oil consumption test. Of course they claimed that what I was seeing was "normal". This is probably why I got no push back whatsoever when I filed my warranty claim. They did ask for any documentation for maintenance records. I guess I have to give them credit for honoring their powertrain warranty but then again they should. Within 2 weeks of getting the vehicle back with the remanufactured engine I unloaded the Kia (no) Soul.
@@chrissimmons9969 okay 👍
I imagine your customer is buying one injector and a for sale sign this go around. 😂
Great diagnosis and scope captures.
i made a tool for those injector seals after doing so many GDI theta 2 engine replacements , those seals can take a bit of stretching
Thanks Ivan!
Ivan what a fiasco to change one injector. I’m waiting for the repair 👍
I understand why the manufactures went to DI, but port injection fuel injectors, and the whole FI system, is so much more reliable.
I really don’t believe petrol lends itself to such a high pressure system.
Uhg! Good luck Ivan! A lot of work and expense just to drive down the road. Thanks for Sharing!
Greetings from NZ
It is a bummer when your vehicle breaks down again, however it may very well be more cost effective to repair than replace a vehicle. Especially in this instance where it is an unrelated issue. Injectors do fail, to be honest an injector fail would be far more palatable than the previous fail on this vehicle. Though at $200 an injector, I can understand why the customer inly wants to replace the faulty one. It isn't as if one failure means the rest are on the way to failure. All in all a regrettable failure in this instance.
Great diagnosis method Ivan. Very quick & cost friendly for your customer - The diagnosis time I mean.
Should replace them all, imo. All of them are just as old and unreliable. With the labor involved to replace one, you'd be very angry if 6 months later that labor had to be done all over again for another injector.
@@bills6093 I wouldn't be very angry, at best I would be annoyed at myself. There are many other things in life one could consider one would be "very angry" at, the decision not to replace all injectors at the same time is not one of those situations.
@@robpeabo509 It's your money to waste.
@@bills6093 You seem nasty Bill S. It seems you do not like differing opinions to yours. I have no more to say after this to you.
Ivan.. You have to make-up a t-shirt for sale. Eric O is one upping you man.
Why anyone would keep throwing money in a hyundai is beyond me. They lose so much in value to begin with. Great job as always
Loses value,I bought 2020 palasade for 48;000 and sold to carvana for 57,000,I win!
Wow, at first i thought it would be the cam related issue as of the raw gas and blue smoke, lack of power etc. I kept wondering too. But glad that is completely unrelated problem! Nice scope reading of the pindle hump compared from 3 to 5. I wondered how many hours to tear into it and replace and reassembly etc? Awesome video Ivan! Favorite part of the video is the scope showing the injectors firing and timing to fire etc.
Ivaaano , you being you again, awesome!
when are you visiting Staten island tho?, that place is like Hollywood for us box office but for diag videos hahah
kudos from Ethiopia✌✌
If he's going to keep the car he might consider doing them all. If he's going to sell it, do one injector and put a for sale sign on it immediately and never own another Hyundai. lol
Hello Ivan,
First of all, I enjoy all your videos since you make videos that are actually real world scenarios with ups and down. I have been wrenching for 20+ years and sometime you run into these special tools dilemma. Usually these tools cost a fortune from oem manufactures. What is your thought of buying these oddball oem required tools required to do this job? Would a customer be responsible for the cost of the tool or do you invest and buy the oem tool your self and hope you can break even with few similar jobs in the future?
I once fixed a friend's 4 wheeler and told him the exact same thing. Now that it's running good sell it.
Thankyou Ivan. This helps me out a lot and all your videos
i just started working on a 2022 with a misfire and smoke at work. one of that spark plugs were defective, one had a broken ceramic sleeve isolating the spark, and still trying to figure out the source of the smoke but the engine is probably toast, it was low 2 quarts of oil and it only takes 4. probably burned some of it and the rest was covering the underside of the vehicle and sides of the engine, it was a lot more smoke than you had in this video.
2022?? Wtf lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics only 2k miles too, hasn't even had an oil change yet, may end up with a new engine depending on what i find inside.
So you are saying, "its a Hyundai" as far as the level of repairs it is needing. That said, is there a point where you get through the repairs and it is dependable again for a few years? Again, going back to my 22 year old Chrysler, it has had a few hiccups in that time where it needed several thousand dollars worth of repairs in one year, but once we got through that it only needed maintenance repairs for several years. It never cost as much in one year as a payment on a newer vehicle would have cost. I think the most we ever spent in one year was $2000, and that was way less than the payments on a new van would have been for one year. So the question is, do you pony up the money for the repairs, knowing that you will most likely get several years of dependable service on the other side of it (never certain, but probable), or do you not repair, knowing that at this point, the vehicle is most likely junk, and will never be dependable again?
Ivan, another great video!! One question, I don't think I've seen you use the "Cylinder Balance" feature on the ThinkTool... I've found that very useful to find a direction to go in. I used your link when I purchased my Thinktool Pro... Great decision!!!
Большое спасибо за урок!
again Ivan thanks for sharing can't wait to see the outcome but as you stated the way the cars are now designed for a point that is it really worth to repair the vehicle from the owners perpective ?? ! not counting all the shops that mis diagose that leave customer stranded ! I remember when you had that Lincoln with the parasitic drain yes you spend the time but how many customers want to pic up there car at 5 o clock !
i hope the catalytic converter is ok after the injector replace.
Hi IVAN .please answer me,i've got confused how the mechanical problem on the pintle or broken return spring could effect on the shape of the ramp,my consideration is that the shape of the ramp would only got effected by electrical element like injector driver ic that activate or deactivate the injector .my experience is on a bad transmission sol with a sized pintle but it had no difference in terms of current ramp shape with a good one.
Any explanation would be appreciated.
Moving moving pintle through a magnetic field will create an additional voltage "back EMF" that you can see as a "pintle hump" on the oscilloscope. Review your physics notes 😉
Unfortunately these are the problems we'll see as techs going forward. As government mandates lower emissions, car companies are coming up with new ways to try and meet those standards. At the end, it's the customer that is left footing the bill
But the government serves us and our best interest... 😂😂😂😂😂
@Jay, isn't DI more efficient under load? Ivan did mention 28mpg; show me another 3.0 V6 SUV getting that mileage? Kia/Hyundai vehicle owners, with that now infamous 2.4 I4, thought they'd be left holding the bag, too; 'till they got smart: got together, organized, and filed that law suit - Kia/Hyundai had to step-up. Diesels use DI, and they don't suffer that Hyundai's injector failure. Why didn't Hyundai use a known, trouble-free DI injector design? Money - the bottom line, that's why! Are their other vehicle manufacturers using petrol DI, and not in experiencing such DI failures? Of course they are! It's Hyundai's fault, not DI technology; nor certainly not the Govt's. What I'd love to see is Ivan cut open that faulty injector and do a post mortem. Did the spring break, or just weaken? Is there data out there on DI injector spring specifications (length, compression strength, etc). Something kept that pintle open: weak/broken spring, computer, maybe? I'm still waiting for him to disect that Lexus transmission... Plenty of those still in service.
$258 US dollars for one OEM fuel injector not counting the massive tear down just to replace. The how long before another one fails. The high cost of maintenance on these vehicles overshadows the low purchase cost.
"But hey it's a Hyundai" - pretty much says it all!
and what about the O2 sensors
Some people can't believe or let go of the deal they got.
One reason I like earlier than 1970 model vehicles. The pain of sensors and modules.
I think 90s cars are a good compromise... Bulletproof simple port fuel injection 👍
Do you have to change oil now because of the fuel dump, anyway thx for the many hats you have to where, 😊 I’m exhausted, lol
What brand of vehicle would you recommend
Would cleaning the injector help?
Are you talking about cleaning it was n place or removing it to clean it?
@@dans_Learning_Curve I meant when it is in the engine with a cleaning agent.
Absolutely not...it's FUBAR
This direct injectors are like those in diesel truck very high pressure and they are normally just replace.
Do you guys know some one like ivan, eric or paul but for diesels?
happy to hear any suggestions
thanks in advance
Oh man, poor Dave, , it's a friggin dilemma,,, there is a chance that when that 1 injector is done the thing will go for years and be an excellent vehicle,,, but if it was MY vehicle and I did that it would be the beginning of a tragic wallet draining tear filled journey... lol
I think my car has a bad injector, not as bad as this car though (although it is also cylinder 5). The shops all tell me no codes no problem, but it misfires only at idle on one cylinder. Long crank/hard starts + smoke occasionally. Bank 1 is pulling a ton of fuel out, its LTFT is like -15% all the time. It idles so bad, but naturally all of the shops that its been to "can't replicate the problem". I'm considering just replacing all 6 myself and calling it a day. My misfire count is just below the threshold to set a code so nobody cars about it.
Same car?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics no sir it's a Cadillac XTS. I've been struggling with this issue for months and I just can't find a good shop that will actually troubleshoot it. It's to the point where I bought a cheap autel scanner just to log the misfires and then discovered it's losing a lot of fuel pressure over night. Cyl 5 will have some gas in it in the morning. Apparently it's a big pain in the butt to get the injectors out of this thing though so if I do one it's going to be all 6.
With all the labor required to get to the injectors, its more prudent to replace all 3 injectors...especially if he plans to drive it. Expensive injectors BTW.
Yes, that is the correct decision. He'll be very angry if that labor has to be done all over again in a few months. All the injectors are the same age and type, so it wouldn't surprise anyone if another one failed in a couple months.
Why not all 6?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yes. all 6 would be best, but those three at a minimum. Perhaps there is a problem with heat or something on the rear bank? Plus you did have a reported #3 misfire, which might have been that injector getting ready to quit. But, it's not our car.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Agree if the front 3 are buried just the same !
Remember to change the cooked o2 sensors!
I’m curious to see what would it look if you put an amp clap around the injectors? Or why didn’t you do that?
That's an option for sure. Was easier to hook up this way than trying to stuff amp clamps at that tight connector 👍
Does unplugging injector 5 cause the engine to return to normal operation? Does injector 5 leak even if it is not energized?
Wow , could that be a real bonified Lemon?
Failing ECM?
Who makes that scope you use?
brilliant thank you for the video i learned something
Maybe someone can enlighten me? What advantage is direct injection over port injection? Cost, failure rate, difficulty of serviceability, deposits building up on intake valves....why are the manufacturers doing this?
Better Emissions and horsepower would be a short answer butt I guess the question is rhetorical.
Improved fuel consumption AFAIK. New buyers compare numbers without considering maintenance headaches.
combine that with the toxic mix of EGR exhaust fumes mixing with PCV crankcase oily fumes, forming a carbon sludge gradually blocking intake system.....seems all postive here :)
I think DI offers a better more complete coverage in the combustion area than standard port injection. There is a more complete firing of the fuel.
Much better fuel economy, performance and emissions. Carbon buildup can be an issue, though less so if well maintained and using synthetic oil. Injector failures like this don't seem very common.
Big siamese cats, with a side of extra whiskers
Just when you thought it was safe to run away.... It's Back !! lol.
Was there any crud in the fuel that might semi block the injectors?
Don't they charge the earth for injectors, he could get a nice bicycle for less than one injector lol 😀
Not al Hyundai's are bad we have a 2008 Sonata V6 with 260k miles we have had to do superficial stuff like a radiator and water pump but engine has never been opened and
passes emissions every 2 years.
I’m amazed a Hyundai lasted that long. Friends with the. Start to get problems around 40k. You gave him good advice. Ditch it while it’s running
Why did cylinder 3 have a misfire? Cylinder 5 taking extra fuel and starving cylinder 3?
I think Ivan has said before that the system occasionally reports the wrong cylinder misfiring. But I see where you are going, I think. Is #3 injector getting ready to fail?
Are all GDI injectors that complicated to remove or install?
Yes
Watch Wes Work made his own seal installation tool. :)
JUST THE FUEL RAIL PRESSURE REQUIRED SCARE THE HELL OUT OF ME!!! 2,000 TO 3,000 PSI!!!!! High pressure pumps are $$$$ and the injectors are $$$.. So what benefit do you get?? about 3-4% efficiency..THATS ALL!!
Better not work on any modern diesels then, they get up to around 30,000 PSI and if you think parts are expensive for GDI better not look up parts prices for diesels.......
@@lustfulvengance Diesel fuel is NOT GAS!! Gas at those pressures is close to ignition!! Let alone a fuel leak.. Spray high pressure gas all over the engine compartment.. Do you understand what a Octane rating is?? Reg Gas 87... Diesel 20-30!! ( the conversion of a diesel's cetane number ((40-55)) to Octane is approximate) Having high pressure flammable fuel flying around under the hood is a recipe for disaster.
Put an ignition source near highly atomized diesel fuel at 30000 psi and tell me how not flammable it is!
The risk of liquid injection injuries greatly increases with an increase in pressure as well.
My statement holds true, this guy is afraid of GDI, he better not get near a modern common rail diesel 🤣🤣🤣
@@lustfulvengance GAS is 100 times more dangerous than Diesel AT ANY PRESSURE and even at 30,000 psi DIESEL is less flammable then GAS.. Get a degree before you spew..
@@jwray9799 Dangerous is a relative term, water is dangerous in certain instances!
Diesel fuel may be slightly harder to ignite but it also contains a lot more energy, it will burn a lot hotter once it is ignited and believe me highly pressurized atomized diesel fuel is anything but difficult to ignite!
Nobody's debating whether or not highly pressurized fuel is dangerous, I was simply stating that modern common rail diesels present more of a risk and are also significantly more expensive to repair.
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to achieve with your argument here 🤔🤔🤔
Maybe a 500$ or close to that injector replacement. wow
What about the Hyundai 100,000 mile warranty?
What about it? This has 130k on it lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics ah missed that
But it gets 1 more mile per gallon.
Now it gets 10 LESS mpg with a broken gushing injector 🤣
Bonus footage calls for another beer
No Warranty on that car?
It’s over 100,000 miles. The warranty is over.
@@montestu5502 That sucks.
I love watching these videos. I learn so much about repairing cars and they make me happy that I bought a Tesla.
That’s great and all, let me know how much that battery is to replace when it’s shot in 10 years
@@braaapattack2937 There are lots of Teslas 10 years old and older that are still running fine. I'm sure there are a few with "shot" batteries. BTW, how many gas powered cars have blown engines after 10 years? How many before? Home many happen after the warranty period? Tesla warranties the batter for 8 years. What's the warranty on a gas powered engine?
@@GerardPinzone 12 year old toyota here, hasn’t blown a motor, basic maintenance is cheap. Electric batteries are about as good for the environment as a car from the 20’s. Electric energy isn’t made by pixie dust, and batteries arnt renewable. You can keep your electric garbage, I’ll keep my good ol piston engine and enjoy driving.
@@braaapattack2937 Wow, your anecdotal evidence about one 12-year old Toyota is amazing. Here's my counter-evidence: Every video in this channel ever. *Mic drop*
These new cars are so complex the repair costs wipe out any gas savings.
Absolutely agree. And then some 😅
136000 miles? Most cars in New Zealand are pretty dead by then!? Maybe we lack oil changes I’m pretty sure
With proper maintenance 136k is still young on Japanese motors. Don't know about Hyundai. Maybe direct injection?
That is simply because of a bad maintenance culture in NZ, many people only spend money when their car breaks. They just limp from one yearly safety inspection to the next. Also do not forget that NZ does NOT have right to repair, in layman's terms; automotive workshops do not have access to OEM service and repair information or tools. With the rubbish build quality of vehicles today it's a miracle if a car here makes it to 200 K.
Are people buying into the 10k oil change there? Because everybody I ask to will not go over 5k most do 3k like me good number over 200k miles. Even if the car isn't hardly driven still once every 6 months it'll get changed. Heat breaks down oil wether heat from motor or environmental plus condensation e.t.c.
@@frizzlefry1921 My Toyota Venza V6, has 320,000 miles. Mixed city/hwy. Oil changed (by me) every 10k miles with Mobil 1 full synthetic and an OEM oil filter. It burns no oil between changes. I’ve had zero engine problems. Nothing wrong with 10k mile OCI, if using quality oil and filter. I bought this car brand new. I have the proof sitting in my garage that it is ok, but people still don’t want to believe.
44 K , try a can full see what happens .
Snake oil
you really get the weird ones
Did you, uh, drop your camera recently? Looks like a lens element is way out of alignment.