ND rests upon its storied history. They are a solid team year in and year out. But their money not history will nor donor fan base or fandom will move them forward in an ever changing landscape of college football. They have never been in a play off in the modern college football landscape and haven’t really been a serious contender for a national title in 20 years. You talking heads are the ones keeping them in the spotlight every year. They have such a storied history and strong national fan base, but they will be left out in the cold until they actually fully join a conference, not just associate with one in football. That’s what people really mean by relevant!!!! Not the straw men arguments you created Pate!!!!
@@jamesschmidlin1127 a conference doesn't make you relevant. Relevant is how much money you make for the TV companies. How many fans follow you. How many stadiums you sell out. Notre Dame is one of the if not the most relevant team in college football. It doesn't have to do with championships or conferences. People are going to hate on Notre Dame no matter what they do. And there's going to be a different reason every time.
You’re the man Josh - greatly appreciate covering this and discounting “what have they done”, “irrelevant”, “overrated”, “they don’t play anyone”…. Heard it my whole life and were typically rated right where we should be. We have a lot to prove in the big games.
Thank you Josh! Couldn't agree more! 🌍 From Taiwan, I've backed Notre Dame for 20+ years, even made 9 trips to South Bend! Stephen A. Smith's clueless; our global fan base speaks volumes. Haven't seen a Bama or Georgia club in Taiwan-We've got a dedicated one for Notre Dame each week! Go Irish! 🍀
@@FIREDAY2 I'm disinclined to respond due to my laziness, and as a non-native speaker, I lack the inclination to engage in debate. Nonetheless, it's evident your team excels while its fans lack discernment. If relevance hinges solely on winning N6, few teams meet the criteria. As for A Smith's assertion regarding relevance, it implies National Championship wins, not even playoffs. Many NFL teams haven't won a Super Bowl this century. Your narrow-mindedness prevents you from recognizing our upward trajectory and the joy of our fans, juxtaposed with your envy and suspicion
@@innovhub2339 I’m a lifelong Bama fan, but I totally support your fandom for your team. Every team has a fanbase. That’s what makes CFB great! Roll Tide
@@innovhub2339 Same to you, friend. I’m glad you’re a fan of a CFB team. I think that’s fantastic, and you’ve got a friend here in Alabama. My very best to you. See you around here again sometime, I hope. Til then -
Another point to the relevance argument. Wherever Notre Dame goes, they bring in the ratings. People watch because they either love ND or hate ND. Either way, ND brings these networks RATINGS. Marquee matchups, primetime games. Notre Dame brings it every time. Packed house thousands of miles away in Ireland. Miami fans will call ND irrelevant. Meanwhile, they can't even fill their home stadium
At this point when it comes to everybody that's not a Notre Dame fan and everybody else outside of the fan base is begging us to be in a conference at this point. But it ain't going to happen
ND has made 1 national championship in 2013, 2 CFPs since 2018, and 3 combined BCS title/CFP appearances since 2013, a small handful of teams can say that. Take a look at ND’s strength of schedule, as a Kentucky fan, there are SEC teams that play easier schedules year in and year out than the Irish. If you call the Irish overrated/irrelevant plz educate yourself.
I’ve traveled all over the country and the world for work. There are a few team logos you consistently see in places you wouldn’t think they’d be and ND is one of them. I’ve seen bars in every major city and foreign ones that have ND alumni clubs that host games for all their sports teams. The other college teams are Penn State, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, UCLA. I’m not sure why it’s B1G related but these teams are consistently represented, too. ND, even during their mid seasons, always had a bar or two packed with alumni in places as far as Tokyo, Rome, Singapore, Bonn, Paris, etc… and their alumni are usually in management in top companies. The brand is forever relevant, not just because of football, it’s a culture that cuts deep in both academics and religion.
It all comes down to recruiting and player development and this current staff, in 3 years, has done better than the entire Kelly era. Things are just going to get better for ND.
@@detectif1061it doesn’t make sense to compare the current to the most recent staff etc?? Nobody is obsessed with purple face in south bend believe that but it sure does make sense to look at the success he had. Though he didn’t win anything meaningful and never will freeman’s ceiling is much much higher so that’s why the comparison is there since you needed a breakdown.
@@detectif1061agreed. ND fans need to find a way to let the BK thing go. Don’t get me wrong. I understand the feeling of rejection they must have. Getting dumped for a better looking partner is tough on the ego.
i didnt need a breakdown at all you just felt the need to type a bunch of nonsense, my team actually wins nattys and we have your teams old coach who will win a natty here, be careful making assumptions buddy.@@jakepiper4289
ND fan here ... i believe your analysis was SPOT ON ... right now we are PRETTY GOOD and working to be VERY GOOD then better ... with MF in charge i believe the future looks promising ... thank you for this video ...
@@JJ-zr6fu they never actually mattered considering they played zero impact on who wins the natty but that wasn’t a N6 bowl game even tho it was in New Year’s Day I don’t get it but i googled it and literally everyone keeps mentioning it
@@FIREDAY2 Notre Dame does matter though, because beating them is a plus for your playoff resume. And get ready for it because with the expanded playoffs they'll be in it a lot.
I'm pretty sure that the broadcast relationship between Notre Dame and NBC is the longest continuing relationship between a network and a specific entity in all of college football. There is a reason for that.
That statement is missing context. First, ESPN and the B1G had the longest-running relationship ever until the B1G ended it last year. Now NBC is also a partner with the B1G and initial reports are that NBC is very pleased with the ROI so far that's going to increase with the PAC-12 teams. There's a reason NBC/ND won't release details of their new contract because it's not the same as the old contract. It's rumored that it's a sliding scale based on ND's quality of schedule and no longer an annual flat rate. And I'm pretty sure there are incentives in there for ND to join the B1G so there won't be anymore double dipping on crossover games.
@@heartbreak25 1. As you said, the Big Ten and ESPN are no longer partners, which makes NBC's relationship with ND the longest continuing relationship for broadcast rights in college football. 2. There are no special incentives for ND to join the B1G in the deal with NBC. Neither side would ever enter into such a deal. ND would not want to be boxed in and forced to join a conference; ABC/ESPN would gladly give them the same money and not pressure them into a conference. Furthermore, the B1G would not do such a deal either. They do not need ND and the member schools would never agree to pay ND more to join the conference. If ND wants to join the B1G, they would have the same payout as everyone else. 3. I haven't been able to find any information on any deal between NBC and ND since the original 5 year $38 million deal they did in 1991. So that doesn't mean anything. In fact, the AD of ND has said that if they cannot get the revenue they need being an independent, they would join a conference. The fact that they re-upped with NBC means they got paid.
The thing that gets me, nobody from ND has said anything about the new CFP. I have not heard anyone complain, nobody has cried, not one word from ND. They are a national program, one of the only “national” programs. People to see them win but people also love to see them get beat, all good. Either way they get ratings, they get eyes, they get talked about.
because its actually fair if anyone gave it any thought. The reason ND is fine with the way the current cfp format is because, by default, to get a bye, you must be a conference champion. Conference championships act as a teams 13th game of the season and often pit two highly ranked teams against each other. Obviously, notre dame doesn't play in a conference championship, meaning they don't play the 13th game, and do not have to beat a presumably very good team to get the bye. Instead they have to play and extra playoff game against a presumably very good team. Basically the first round of the cfp is Notre Dame's conference championship, if the win it, it's basically like they had a bye and won their conference championship. It actually makes a ton of sense for both sides. ND can stay independent and every team that is in the second round of the cfp have played at least 13 games, no matter what
As a life long notre dame fan here that can think critically, i agree with everything said here. The concept of ND being irrelevant is, like you said, contradicted by the fact that they are such a big talking point right now. Also, i don't see ND as being elite right now... I hope they get there, and i think they have a path to get there under Freeman, but they have some yardage to make up here before we can put them in that category. I think ND haters out there hate ND because ND has the ability to dictate their own destiny from conference to schedule to anything they want and that makes people mad.
Notre Dame is very comparable to Penn State. Lose to elite teams; win double-digit games; play a few great teams every year; contend for a playoff spot every year; wind up disappointed every year.
The hate for Notre dame stems from them being “important” enough to merit their own television deal and not need a conference. During BCS they had their own specific set of rules to qualify. People don’t like special treatment, especially for a program that doesn’t seem to have the matching relevancy
Any program that has a fanbase as big as them can be independent and negotiate such a deal. There's a reason why they're the only program that could sustain independence for such a long time.
@@davidboniface858 and any program that does it will be hated as such. Not denying their sustainability or prestige, just correcting/explaining where the hate comes from.
@@CJSHO the hate is dumb. Being in a conference doesn't mean anything. Fans put too much meaning into being in a conference. It was just a geographical agreement between similar teams. There's nothing more to it. Not being in one doesn't make you better either. It's just a good financial situation for a team. That's all.
@@davidboniface858 just speaking my own experience. Started watching ball at beginning of BCS era and teams were required to win conference to qualify for BCS bowl. So the conf was very relevant. Since ND was not in one, they simple had to finish in top 8 to qualify. I thought this was unfair and kinda special treatment
@@CJSHOfeel sorry for you and you have zero idea about what’s fair or not if that is the extent of your college football experience. It used to be top 2 teams or before that the top teams that the AP believed should play or splitting a championship. You’re hating because you hate.
As an Irish fan who grew up on Georgia. That’s all I’ve ever heard and it’s so irritating. Over rated is so laughable to me. We are rated right where they should be. I listened to Steven a smith trash something he knows nothing about, once again. We have a huge fan base that arguably stretches wider in the country than any other team. At the clemson game that was 30% green, I kept hearing “wow Notre dame fans travel well”, it’s not that we are traveling from northern Indiana, we are just everywhere. You either love them or hate them because there is this false narrative passed down from non fans that has been perpetuated, especially when we get blown out by an elite. If you hold Alabama to the least they’ve scored all season and then Bama blows out osu by a larger margin. You’ll only hear shit about the Irish.
Only team in cfb with an international following. Was blessed to go to the navy game in Ireland in 2012 and tons of Dubliners said they watched games whenever they could. Jameson distillery created special bottles for the game. Very very cool experience
Absolutely agree! As a die-hard fan from Taiwan, I've followed Notre Dame for over 20 years, even traveling to South Bend for nine games. Critics like Stephen A. Smith overlook our global fan base and rich tradition. Despite their skepticism, I stand proudly with fellow Irish supporters worldwide. Go Irish!
Maybe "overrated" is the wrong term. But I think ND gets trashed because whether it be big regular season games, New Year's 6 or Playoff games- They don't show up. 🤷🏿
@davidboniface858 ND gets on the big stage and gets bodied just about every time. I think their called "overrated" because ND will go 11-1 or undefeated vs their schedule, play a top 5 program and get destroyed. People will say you might as well have let cincinnati or ucf take the Irish spot.. them losing a lot and not really being competitive doesn't help your argument.
If you’re talking about right now, everything he said is correct. We are very good, not great. Getting to be great under MF. In terms of history, nobody has more history and greatness than Notre Dame. Even Alabama. Even Michigan.
People always pick on ND because they’re low hanging fruit. It’s pretty excessive. If winning national championships in recent memory (in the last 10 years) was the standard for relevance then only a handful of teams would be relevant. ND is fine just where they’re at. And they’ll most likely make the playoffs next year as a top 12 team.
Part of it is them not winning a BCS/NY6 Bowl Game in 25 years while plenty of programs not thought of as on the same level have won multiple (TCU, UCF, etc)
@@ZMack1023 This is where the "ND is overrated" argument takes a turn. Most reasonable ND fans will admit that ND gets preferential treatment when it comes to bowl selection because of the amount of money that ND can generate. However, this works against ND's favor because they end up getting placed in higher-tier bowls and matched against better opponents than what they should. You can look at the betting lines of past ND bowl games and see that they're RARELY favored to win because money has been the driving factor in a lot of the matchups, not competion.
ND starting to spend money.... that makes for some scary teams possibly in the making. That place has a 35B endowment folks... and has been a tight wad the last decade
Norte Dame football is relevant bc they signed a great TV deal 40 years ago, and their brand is tied to a religion not because of anything they’ve accomplished on the field They are 0-8 in BSC/ NY6 bowl games. Their last major bowl win was 30 year ago Half of their fanbase has nothing to do w the school outside of a religious affiliation or their dad/ grandpa liking them bc “that’s who was on TV when I grew up”
I agree that it's a media/poll problem. They've lost all 5 BCS and CFP games in which they've played. In those games, they've never gotten closer than 14pts and lost by an average of over 21pts. They lost 9 consecutive bowl games from 1995-2006. I'd argue that indicates they were ranked too highly and put in bowls they had no business being in, which is not the program's fault.
Josh, you nailed it! Are there some ND fans who are a bit strong? Sure, just like every other school. Every school strives to do its best and really Notre Dame is no different in that respect. How people perceive Notre Dame is not Notre Dame's problem.
At the end of the day if ND was irrelevant as people say, I guarantee they would have joined a conference long ago. They would have not fought so long and hard to remain independent and every current conference would be willing to do what they can to get them in. That to me is all you need to say. If it was ONLY success on the field maybe you could make the argument but it never has been.
I think with the prior playoff system, ND might have buckeld to loin a conference. however; now that it's expanded to 12, there's no reason too. South bend is a terrible location to build a football empire. them going independent and playing nationwide was the smartest thing they did. being in the bigten would have put a ceiling on their growth.
@@williamw3501 Why is South Bend "a terrible place to build a football empire"? What a dumb and lazy take. Like Columbus or Ann Arbor is any better? In fact, Ann Arbor gets colder than SB does!
@ramboeastwood1522 I should have said when it started. a program is typically good as it is location and recruited potential. Michigan and Ohio state started before notre dame did. even today, the area is crowded. whereas someone like usc has no basically no competition between Texas and Oregon. notre dame was the first team to go out of its way to become a national brand so it could recruit nationwide. if they stayed in the midwest the past 100 years, it would have suffocated constantly competing with osu and michigan. compound that with the academics, it would have likely turned into a northwestern or Stanford. it's not an insult. it was a smart move by notre Dame.
@ramboeastwood1522 dose that makes sense? indiana has a small population. where back on the 40s, the Detroit metro area was huge and had talent pool. Ohio has a lot of talent to pull from, plus if Go East michigan, penn State,Ohio state, take take the pick there too. that's why it seldom to see two programs right next door being really competitive at the same time.
Thanks, this is fair assessment. Too many people (mostly media probably) want to call a program "trash" if they not in top 10 or or top 5 all the time. That's just unreasonable for any program.
Why is ND's AD in the room with the conference commissioners? Why does ND think it should get the spoils of major CFB without joining a conference? Josh can act like it is not ND, it the media, but that is BS. ND thinks it should be separate and special when it wants and it should still share in the spoils the same as everyone else. F ND and it's fans. When they win a major post season game again, come see me. Until then, they are some other team that does not matter. Knute Rockne and the 4 horsemen were a long time ago. Hell, Holzt - the last time they really mattered - was a long time ago. Hope these FACTS don't hurt your feelings.
I love when they say the overrated jingle. ND is irrelevant, but they end up in the "key wins" category for every opposing team. And to those that just can't hold back the jealousy and hate......before you comment on how awful ND is....name your team....it's always Crickets University.
FACTS. Appreciate the honesty and truth. People need to hear it. ND has not been as good as Bama, Georgia, Clemson(a few years back), and Ohio State, etc. They’ve been a 10-15 team on average the past 5-8 years. They haven’t been those teams but barely anyone else has either. They are amongst the first at that second table, as Josh said. Agreed. Go irish ☘️
I’m not a Notre dame fan for the most part I don’t care about them. But I think the Notre dame hate comes from jealousy for their ability to be independent. You don’t think the pac 12 schools wish they would’ve been relevant without having to jump to another conference. And don’t give me they’re arrogant for being independent. Notre dame tried multiple times in their history to join the big 10 and Michigan blocked them the last time was in the 2000s when penn state was chosen instead of them. Notre dame made it work being independent.
Thank you for sticking up for the Irish. i appreciate you 🙏 Go Irish! We need more people like you in college football media. You make sense. God bless you 🙏
Mr. Pate Two words Thank you Thank you for being truthful and fair. ND is not the best. But ND is a good solid program. Thank you for being fair Other media are not. Period
I think the problem is people and colleges are getting worried now cause ND is allowed to do what the elite team's have been doing illegally for years. And also they see coach Freeman and his staff are starting to become elite recruiters and going in everyone's backyard to get some of these players. And they all know once ND becomes elite again which will happen soon the college football world will be theirs and they dont want that to happen.
This is why the SEC had one of their worst overall performances in over a decade. It leveled the playing field (for the teams that have the money). I'm happy to see them start to invest proportionately to elite teams again. It will pay off eventually.
OSU has a 6-0 record against Notre Dame since 1995. The last time Ohio state lost to notre dame was 1936. I would never say Notre dame is irrelevant because they are typically a really good team, but they certainly have their issues like most other programs.
Thank you Josh. I applaud your honesty with regard to the ND program. At the moment they are second tier. But the recruiting classes are getting consistent top 10 for the last 3-4 years. The head coach is young, energetic and relates to the players. They may not win a natty but I would rather be here than a program in turmoil/transition and struggling. Besides if you have never been on campus for a game day? It is a bucket list item. September to early October is prime weather. Leaves turning, warm temps and a beautiful campus. Keep up the good work. You are doing a great job.
Teams that have won a College Football Championship since Notre Dame last won: Alabama Auburn Texas USC Miami Florida Florida St Ohio St. Michigan Oklahoma Tennessee Georgia Clemson Nebraska 14 teams. 14. And of those on that list, 5 have not won in over 2 decades. So, Notre Dame wins 10-11 games per year, makes the Playoffs twice, BCS once, but they are "irrelevant" I remember when they said Michigan was Irrelevant. Hell, I remember when NOBODY gave a rip about Clemson. How about Miami? One of the most dominant College football teams in history, but not so much lately. Are they "irrelevant"? Why not just cut College Football down to 8 teams, and that way the whiners can rub one out to their favorite team winning each year. I love the haters, though. ESPECIALLY the SEC fans... LMAO! If you are not Georgia, Alabama, or LSU fans yet chant "SEC! SEC! SEC!" when one of those teams wins, you are, by definition, a moron. Cheering for a CONFERENCE because YOUR SCHOOL can't co.pete. Good lord you guys are hilarious!
The only complaint I have about ND has more to do with there fans thinking they are more then what they are. I have heard so many ND fans complain about the new play off not being fair and the ND president should have vetoed it. First off the SEC and Big Ten are going to look out for there interests they could care less about what it does to any school outside of there conferences which is what they should be doing. Secondly if they had tried to hold up any deal they would quickly find themselves out of the conversation all together because the Big Ten and SEC are powerful enough now that they get to make all the rules and if you stand in there way you will get steamrolled. Because you are independent and on your own you are not going to get a seat at the table and will just have to except whatever decision that comes down from the Big 2
ND fan here. I can assure you most ND fans have been aware of the new playoff rules for a couple years and are totally fine with it. If anything it could be seen as an advantage for us. If you see any ND fans complaining online they either haven’t thought it through completely or they don’t have all the information
I’m surprised at how comfortable you are with other entities that do not have your interests at heart dictating your future I think ND in the end will be forced to join a conference either because the money gap is just to big for them to compete, cut off access to play anyone in the big 2 or lose access to the playoff. I think if they wait until after the ACC is broke up and we know who the teams are that make the cut the likelihood that the Big Ten or SEC would let them in drops dramatically because they just won’t need them and in fact them being independent is taking money and attention away from there programs
@@johnboltz2768 I just don’t agree with that last part. ND will have no issue finding a conference to join if they are forced to. The brand and revenue stream is just too big. That’s why other conferences like the Big 10 have already come to the door begging for them to join. No one is going to say no to a brand that big.
@@johnboltz2768 The thought of ND not being welcomed with open arms by any conference is laughable. I say that not because ND has had any great recent success on the field, but because of the amount of revenue that ND would generate for a conference. One of the main reasons the ND football program has been able to stay independent for so long is because of the enormous amount of money they are able to generate on their own. Every conference would be falling all over themselves to add those revenue dollars. The only way ND will ever be forced into a conference is if their path to a national championship is ever blocked. As long as ND has a way into the playoff, they'll stay independent. Also - no reasonable ND fan is complaining about the playoff structure. ND doesn't have to play a conference championship game, so they essentially have an easier path to get into the playoff.
@@jdonahue173 I think I need to clarify right now you are correct ND is the biggest fish out there that is not already committed they are not the biggest brand overall. What will happen over time is little by little they will be cut off that is why ESPN is so public ally going after them. I think ND would be an awesome addition especially to the Big Ten for so many reasons I won’t get into. I guess CV my point is they are on a time clock the will at some point be fired to join a conference the longer they wait the more risk they run at being shut out of it all. They won’t destroy you over night they will little by little isolate you the fact that ESPN is attacking you so blatantly is a sign a shot across the bow saying there has been a massive shift in power and you will either jump on the wagon or we will slowly and methodically tear you down. We start with public persecution then once that target is achieved we go for your games like USC if that does do it then we keep tearing you down but by bit until no one even remembers anything good ND has ever done. Then once public perception is what they need it to be you will be totally cut off. When you are independent you have no ally’s or anyone that will stick up for you. When you had 5 conferences and divided power you could get away with that but not that all the power is consolidating you will join or tossed on the scrapbook of history
As a Michigan fan I usually hear "overrated" or "irrelevant" when pointed at Notre Dame in the same way it gets pointed at Michigan. It's people who don't like that their school doesn't have the same history or institutional cachet as Michigan or Notre Dame, so they have to lean on whatever recency-biased silliness caters to what they want to believe. In other words, I take it as a backhanded compliment to the program I support, since it's clear the reason they feel angry about it in the first place is insecurity.
Thank you Josh for infusing rational thinking into this hater debate. Despite people no longer caring about student-athletics, Notre Dame has demonstrated a definite chair at the second table all through the Kelly and Freeman years despite having academic qualifications. Should be applauded, not vilified. This small 9,000 student school does it right, and has beaten Clemson twice, Oklahoma, Michigan, USC numerous times, and lost to Georgia by a total of 7 points over two games!
Good analysis by JP. ND is definitely relevant. They are a top 10 program that may be on the rise to the top 5 with Marcus Freeman. But it would seem their days as an independent will end soon.
100% agree with this analysis. As an ND fan I’ve said that over the past decade or so, ND is a great program, not elite, but in that 5-10 range. Bama, Georgia, Clemson, OSU, OU probably, and now (as much as it pains me) Michigan over the past few years. They get clicks so they are talked about a lot, but even the preseason rankings vs final rankings don’t show them as really being overrated either. They’ve gotta make some strides to become elite, but if losing to Bama, and Clemson in the playoffs makes them trash then 95% of college football teams are trash.
I love Josh. He says exactly what I always say to the haters who never reply when I say the same thing. How are we underrated when we aren’t even predict to win the whole thing and make in into the top 10 at the end of the season? Make it make sense. lol.
ND is not irrelevant. I think some people are confusing results with national profile. ND is one of the most well supported teams in college football. The reason people are talking about ND right now is there is a distinct possibility with realignment there are less seats at the table and SECs and BIG10s of the world with their size and influence will influence the rules in the future so playoff births are allocated by conference and with ND remaining independent means they could be left out of the dance even if they have a good season. College football is ruled by money so if it makes sense got ND to join a conference they will. All the talk right now is just that, talk. Personally I do find some ND fan’s annoying but no more so than Texas, Alabama or Ohio State fans. However that is probably influenced by the Michigan fan in me.
If they’re not relevant then why do people debate them so much. Outside of bama, Georgia, clemson and Michigan, Ohio st ND is the best program in the last 10 years. So 5 programs in the country are better than them but yeah they’re not relevant 👌
I am a Red Raider & Southern Baptist, ND is THE brand in CFB and the biggest reason CFB became a nationwide sport. For decades, ND was the only nationally known or followed teams. Everyone in the USA knows the brand and knows it is a good program. If ND is in the NC game, it will be the most viewed NC game in CFB history.
I am living in Thailand and ND is the most relevant College Football program in College football in history Period Like it or not. Steven A is a complete idiot just looking for clickbait and yes we have a ND fan club here in Thailand haven't seen another college team here not even close with the same following. Let me remind you that ND ranks #1 or 2 in most of the College football category's for Players put in the NFL #1 , Heisman Trophies #1 Nattys, #2 Players in the Pro and College Football Hall of Fame #1 1st round draft picks #3, Unanimous All Americans #2 and if not for a BS NCAA ruling they would have the highest winning % so lets get real people not bad for a little school in Indiana
Notre Dame is a top 15 team as of recently. I’m not gonna sit here and say they should be higher, they fall short on games that could really make a statement for them but I think they earned their rank this past season.
A few competing points: ND is the Taylor Swift of college football. Yes we’re talking about them in February, same as some people are talking about Kansas and Colorado (again). They get forced down our throats by the media and overhyped fans. ND CBS and your CBS colleagues are literally ranking them top 10 on average - yes that’s overrated and ratings come from media/figureheads that aren’t named ND because if ND (or any program for that matter) were to rate themselves, they’d say they see them as elite or the best. ND SOS the past 5 years: 23-24: 11th 22-23: 33rd 21-22: 21st 20-21: 7th (WHEN THEY PLAYED IN THE ACC) 19-20: 16th Absolutely overrated team that needs to play in a conference to have an A-tier (not an S tier) schedule. If they (meaning their fans and media and team alike) want to be taken seriously and want these egregiously overrated standings in media to not be laughed at - there’s your solution. Get into a conference like all of your other sports programs. And don’t say it’s “impossible”, check out all the realignments and jumping of conferences - they know ACC means they become a 3-4 loss team on average and are reset back to the Clemson post-dabo saying no to the transfer portal
@@NDMatador there's a difference between playing 34 games against the ACC and having a conference schedule. Over the course of x years it is easy to rack up wins against a conference, whereas back to back road games against a Clemson or a hot NC State could prove difficult. The only year they did this was in the 2020 COVID year. On top of that, if they're so confident that the ACC would be a clean sweep, why haven't they followed EVERY OTHER SPORT? And don't claim "because money/media". FSU has made it abundantly clear that money and media can be sued and detached from.
6 games a year vs ACC compared to 9 games, ND would still have an overwhelmingly winning record. That speaks to ND as a program and the ACC as a mid conference. ND already plays road back to backs every year against the ACC. Why hasn’t ND followed all other teams (except hockey) to the ACC? It’s very simple, we don’t have to.
@@NDMatador those “back to back” games were UVA and GT, a mid tier Clemson and Syracuse and Duke and UL for the past three years. That’s not impressive lol. Don’t get me wrong, yall are a good team each year but until you guys hit that ACC schedule or do something in the post season, ND will always be overrated. Also we need to stop acting like the ACC has any in conference depth. That conference is worse than the sun belt. I would love to see ND join the big 10
It doesn’t matter if ND has a great, good or poor record. They bring in the viewers and that’s all that matters for the people running CFB. So ND may be irrelevant in this or that year’s championship or best teams discussion, but as long as they bring in the viewers they are relevant to the networks who supply the money.
A conference doesn't make you recruit better. Maryland isn't all of a sudden a great recruiter because they have a Big Ten sticker. Either you have the staff or you don't.
@davidboniface858 Maryland is not and has NEVER been at NDs level. Going the big ten gives ND more exposure to athletes, 5 star and portal athletes who may have opted for Ohio State, Michigan, and Southern Cal, ALL who have won national titles since we last won one. Plus no way ND win 3 games in a playoff against elite teams. It ain't going to happen
@@Trebor1960 In what way does ND not have exposure to those 5 star athletes now? ND's independence allows them the schedule flexibility to play games from coast to coast, rather than being limited to a certain geographical region. Their deal with the ACC allows them to play games in Florida, Virginia, and North Carolina and their rivalries with USC and Stanford allow them to play in California every year. They will usually throw in neutral site games in New York, Texas or Chicago. The only limit ND has recruiting-wise is their high academic standards, which automatically reduces the available recruiting pool by about 30-40%. Those standards are not changing anytime soon. There are valid arguments to be made for ND joining a conference. Recruiting is not one. Conference affiliation does absolutely NOTHING for ND's recruiting.
@@Trebor1960that will do nothing. ND can't get more than 1 or 2 5-stars typically is because there are only around 55 of them so finding a bunch of those kids with the grades is difficult. then when you do find the kids with the grades you still have to out recruit local schools in the south and on the west coast as well as convince them that they NEED an ND degree when many of them are only focused on making the league. Not to mention that not many power 4 football players going to any school don't have a job lined up if it's not in the NFL. Nike basically hands jobs to Oregon players. I genuinely don't know how anyone can expect them to get as many 5 stars as Miami, Ohio State, Bama, Georgia or insert whatever 3rd and 4th SEC team is hot that year on a consistent basis. Is it possible to have years where they can? 100% But being in a conference doesn't fix that. Winning literally anything does. Win a playoff game or better yet a championship that is the biggest improvement ND can make to there recruiting pitch. And that is extremely possible. We saw Washington and TCU win playoff games with recruiting classes outside of the top 25. We saw Michigan win a Natty and Notre Dame perpetually out recruits Michigan in the rankings. There are no more excuses when teams like that can win. None. Zero. And once they do win something of relevance for the first time in essentially 40 years, Notre Dame will unlock a new level to there recruiting. But these kids have parents who weren't alive last time ND won.
ND gets a little boost in the rankings pre-season. So do a lot of other teams each year. They also pull more TV eyes than most other programs. Big whoop.
All I'm saying is if you look at Josh's last 15 videos the Kalen DeBoer Bama video has the most with 28K views. This Notre Dame video is second with 19K. If that's not relevancy I don't know what is.
Conferences and Teams are scared because, if ND ever gets back into the elite group and start winning championships, every conference including the SEC and Big Ten will get hurt. Everyone is praying for a team like ND never wins another National Championship. It’s tough to beat the relevancy of a team that still cares about academics as much as sports.
The issue isnt where ND ranks. Its that the new playoff seeding doesn't allot them an automatic bid into the playoff. This has been my problem with them as a Michigan fan. They want all the accolades and none of the criticisms. They play every sport other than football in the ACC but want special privileges for football and "value their independence". They are a spoiled franchise who is getting paid pennies on their NBC/Peacock deal compared to the Big Ten and will likely get kicked off of NBC when their deal ends in 2028. Just join a conference already
The problem with ND is they lose all the big games. they think as a catholic school they are so holy and above everyone else because of academics and still believe they are the greatest!
notre dame is in the same boat as michigan was. there a blue chip program with a massive fan base people love to hate. there consistently a A tier program. not S tier. at least not at the moment but most aren't, not consistently. they will eventually make it back. go blue!
Funny how Notre dame gets crap for “not playing anyone” but people will trip over themselves to tell you how elite teams like Ohio state are for being able to consistently beat the crap out of competition like Rutgers 10 times a year.
As far as the Big 10 goes, who is in that conference (before fall 2024) besides Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State.... Same goes for the SEC, outside of Georgia and Alabama, who else is elite in that conference? Vanderbilt? Kentucky? Tennessee? No, there are just as many trash teams in every conference. And maybe 1 or 2 elite teams in every conference
Notre dame is the only team to start 2-0 with wins over rice and ball st and somehow go from unranked to top 10. They get love based on their past. They need to join a conference for football if they want to conoete fir championships
Thanks josh!! I let smith and finnbaum my thoughts yesterday ( term i used was jackasses😂)but i know they had no idea ND is ranked 8th in winning percentage in the last 10 yrs👍🏈
notre dame is a fine team but they always underperform in playoff games/ championship gamesfor the past 10+ years. theyre very good. maybe top 10 sometimes but not a serious contender.
Notre Dame is an above average team, not elite. However, their fans are so annoying (Golden Domer) that it feels good to say they're trash. Also, we all know they get blown out in the playoffs regularly, so it's fun to pick at them.
This team doesn't have astronomical standards, grow up. This is not the Service academies. They have NIL. 5 star wants to get into the school, they will.
KEEP THE SHOW FREE - SUBSCRIBE TO THE CHANNEL! - JP
Thank you Josh for sticking up for Notre Dame. I would love for you to come to Notre Dame anytime you want. Lol
ND rests upon its storied history. They are a solid team year in and year out. But their money not history will nor donor fan base or fandom will move them forward in an ever changing landscape of college football. They have never been in a play off in the modern college football landscape and haven’t really been a serious contender for a national title in 20 years. You talking heads are the ones keeping them in the spotlight every year. They have such a storied history and strong national fan base, but they will be left out in the cold until they actually fully join a conference, not just associate with one in football. That’s what people really mean by relevant!!!! Not the straw men arguments you created Pate!!!!
@@jamesschmidlin1127 a conference doesn't make you relevant. Relevant is how much money you make for the TV companies. How many fans follow you. How many stadiums you sell out. Notre Dame is one of the if not the most relevant team in college football. It doesn't have to do with championships or conferences. People are going to hate on Notre Dame no matter what they do. And there's going to be a different reason every time.
You’re the man Josh - greatly appreciate covering this and discounting “what have they done”, “irrelevant”, “overrated”, “they don’t play anyone”…. Heard it my whole life and were typically rated right where we should be. We have a lot to prove in the big games.
Very happy we’re getting defended. Finally
Thank you Josh!
Couldn't agree more! 🌍 From Taiwan, I've backed Notre Dame for 20+ years, even made 9 trips to South Bend! Stephen A. Smith's clueless; our global fan base speaks volumes. Haven't seen a Bama or Georgia club in Taiwan-We've got a dedicated one for Notre Dame each week! Go Irish! 🍀
How many N6 bowl wins do you have this century? I’ll wait
@@FIREDAY2 I'm disinclined to respond due to my laziness, and as a non-native speaker, I lack the inclination to engage in debate. Nonetheless, it's evident your team excels while its fans lack discernment. If relevance hinges solely on winning N6, few teams meet the criteria. As for A Smith's assertion regarding relevance, it implies National Championship wins, not even playoffs. Many NFL teams haven't won a Super Bowl this century. Your narrow-mindedness prevents you from recognizing our upward trajectory and the joy of our fans, juxtaposed with your envy and suspicion
@@innovhub2339
I’m a lifelong Bama fan, but I totally support your fandom for your team. Every team has a fanbase. That’s what makes CFB great! Roll Tide
@@mynamedoesntmatter8652 What you said just matters. Thank you for your kind message, sir. Alabama's success owes much to fans like you
@@innovhub2339
Same to you, friend. I’m glad you’re a fan of a CFB team. I think that’s fantastic, and you’ve got a friend here in Alabama. My very best to you. See you around here again sometime, I hope. Til then -
Another point to the relevance argument. Wherever Notre Dame goes, they bring in the ratings. People watch because they either love ND or hate ND. Either way, ND brings these networks RATINGS. Marquee matchups, primetime games. Notre Dame brings it every time. Packed house thousands of miles away in Ireland. Miami fans will call ND irrelevant. Meanwhile, they can't even fill their home stadium
Thank you for that information. It's never ND fans talking. It's outsiders hating on a program that's not running to a conference to chase money.
At this point when it comes to everybody that's not a Notre Dame fan and everybody else outside of the fan base is begging us to be in a conference at this point. But it ain't going to happen
They need to be in a conference
@@kdeb92968 Why?
Why ??......??????????
@@kdeb92968 cat got your tongue? Why?
ND has made 1 national championship in 2013, 2 CFPs since 2018, and 3 combined BCS title/CFP appearances since 2013, a small handful of teams can say that. Take a look at ND’s strength of schedule, as a Kentucky fan, there are SEC teams that play easier schedules year in and year out than the Irish. If you call the Irish overrated/irrelevant plz educate yourself.
I’ve traveled all over the country and the world for work. There are a few team logos you consistently see in places you wouldn’t think they’d be and ND is one of them. I’ve seen bars in every major city and foreign ones that have ND alumni clubs that host games for all their sports teams. The other college teams are Penn State, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, UCLA. I’m not sure why it’s B1G related but these teams are consistently represented, too. ND, even during their mid seasons, always had a bar or two packed with alumni in places as far as Tokyo, Rome, Singapore, Bonn, Paris, etc… and their alumni are usually in management in top companies. The brand is forever relevant, not just because of football, it’s a culture that cuts deep in both academics and religion.
It all comes down to recruiting and player development and this current staff, in 3 years, has done better than the entire Kelly era. Things are just going to get better for ND.
yall are obsessed with bk
@@detectif1061it doesn’t make sense to compare the current to the most recent staff etc?? Nobody is obsessed with purple face in south bend believe that but it sure does make sense to look at the success he had. Though he didn’t win anything meaningful and never will freeman’s ceiling is much much higher so that’s why the comparison is there since you needed a breakdown.
@@detectif1061agreed. ND fans need to find a way to let the BK thing go. Don’t get me wrong. I understand the feeling of rejection they must have. Getting dumped for a better looking partner is tough on the ego.
i didnt need a breakdown at all you just felt the need to type a bunch of nonsense, my team actually wins nattys and we have your teams old coach who will win a natty here, be careful making assumptions buddy.@@jakepiper4289
@@detectif1061 Nope. You're obsessed with believing that we are obsessed. We are very happy to have Freeman over Kelly. You are welcome to him.
ND fan here ... i believe your analysis was SPOT ON ... right now we are PRETTY GOOD and working to be VERY GOOD then better ... with MF in charge i believe the future looks promising ... thank you for this video ...
Of course you do your a fan of ND yall are overrated every year and haven’t won a major bowl game in like 25 years
@User-xv1fu Didn’t they beat lsu recently when bowl games still mattered?
@@JJ-zr6fu they never actually mattered considering they played zero impact on who wins the natty but that wasn’t a N6 bowl game even tho it was in New Year’s Day I don’t get it but i googled it and literally everyone keeps mentioning it
@@FIREDAY2 Notre Dame does matter though, because beating them is a plus for your playoff resume. And get ready for it because with the expanded playoffs they'll be in it a lot.
@@FIREDAY2 The only thing overrated are asinine comments like yours that have zero bearing on the upcoming year and just prove your butt-hurt.
I'm pretty sure that the broadcast relationship between Notre Dame and NBC is the longest continuing relationship between a network and a specific entity in all of college football. There is a reason for that.
That statement is missing context. First, ESPN and the B1G had the longest-running relationship ever until the B1G ended it last year. Now NBC is also a partner with the B1G and initial reports are that NBC is very pleased with the ROI so far that's going to increase with the PAC-12 teams. There's a reason NBC/ND won't release details of their new contract because it's not the same as the old contract. It's rumored that it's a sliding scale based on ND's quality of schedule and no longer an annual flat rate. And I'm pretty sure there are incentives in there for ND to join the B1G so there won't be anymore double dipping on crossover games.
congrats.
@@heartbreak25 1. As you said, the Big Ten and ESPN are no longer partners, which makes NBC's relationship with ND the longest continuing relationship for broadcast rights in college football. 2. There are no special incentives for ND to join the B1G in the deal with NBC. Neither side would ever enter into such a deal. ND would not want to be boxed in and forced to join a conference; ABC/ESPN would gladly give them the same money and not pressure them into a conference. Furthermore, the B1G would not do such a deal either. They do not need ND and the member schools would never agree to pay ND more to join the conference. If ND wants to join the B1G, they would have the same payout as everyone else. 3. I haven't been able to find any information on any deal between NBC and ND since the original 5 year $38 million deal they did in 1991. So that doesn't mean anything. In fact, the AD of ND has said that if they cannot get the revenue they need being an independent, they would join a conference. The fact that they re-upped with NBC means they got paid.
@@heartbreak25the reason is they’re a private university and they never release those numbers for any contract
@@micah7405 The last TV deal was reported by ND so they could flex. They're not flexing anymore...
The thing that gets me, nobody from ND has said anything about the new CFP. I have not heard anyone complain, nobody has cried, not one word from ND. They are a national program, one of the only “national” programs. People to see them win but people also love to see them get beat, all good. Either way they get ratings, they get eyes, they get talked about.
We aren’t complaining bc our old athletic director literally came up with that idea
because its actually fair if anyone gave it any thought. The reason ND is fine with the way the current cfp format is because, by default, to get a bye, you must be a conference champion. Conference championships act as a teams 13th game of the season and often pit two highly ranked teams against each other. Obviously, notre dame doesn't play in a conference championship, meaning they don't play the 13th game, and do not have to beat a presumably very good team to get the bye. Instead they have to play and extra playoff game against a presumably very good team. Basically the first round of the cfp is Notre Dame's conference championship, if the win it, it's basically like they had a bye and won their conference championship. It actually makes a ton of sense for both sides. ND can stay independent and every team that is in the second round of the cfp have played at least 13 games, no matter what
@@aidan7738 yup
great job josh! as always. REAL TALK. immaturity with social media and the internet runs rampant these days.
As a life long notre dame fan here that can think critically, i agree with everything said here. The concept of ND being irrelevant is, like you said, contradicted by the fact that they are such a big talking point right now. Also, i don't see ND as being elite right now... I hope they get there, and i think they have a path to get there under Freeman, but they have some yardage to make up here before we can put them in that category. I think ND haters out there hate ND because ND has the ability to dictate their own destiny from conference to schedule to anything they want and that makes people mad.
Thank you, Thank you and Thank you Josh. Finally a person who really understands the Game of college football and the Brand that is Notre Dame.
Notre Dame is very comparable to Penn State. Lose to elite teams; win double-digit games; play a few great teams every year; contend for a playoff spot every year; wind up disappointed every year.
The hate for Notre dame stems from them being “important” enough to merit their own television deal and not need a conference. During BCS they had their own specific set of rules to qualify. People don’t like special treatment, especially for a program that doesn’t seem to have the matching relevancy
Any program that has a fanbase as big as them can be independent and negotiate such a deal. There's a reason why they're the only program that could sustain independence for such a long time.
@@davidboniface858 and any program that does it will be hated as such. Not denying their sustainability or prestige, just correcting/explaining where the hate comes from.
@@CJSHO the hate is dumb. Being in a conference doesn't mean anything. Fans put too much meaning into being in a conference. It was just a geographical agreement between similar teams. There's nothing more to it. Not being in one doesn't make you better either. It's just a good financial situation for a team. That's all.
@@davidboniface858 just speaking my own experience. Started watching ball at beginning of BCS era and teams were required to win conference to qualify for BCS bowl. So the conf was very relevant. Since ND was not in one, they simple had to finish in top 8 to qualify. I thought this was unfair and kinda special treatment
@@CJSHOfeel sorry for you and you have zero idea about what’s fair or not if that is the extent of your college football experience. It used to be top 2 teams or before that the top teams that the AP believed should play or splitting a championship. You’re hating because you hate.
As an Irish fan who grew up on Georgia. That’s all I’ve ever heard and it’s so irritating. Over rated is so laughable to me. We are rated right where they should be. I listened to Steven a smith trash something he knows nothing about, once again. We have a huge fan base that arguably stretches wider in the country than any other team. At the clemson game that was 30% green, I kept hearing “wow Notre dame fans travel well”, it’s not that we are traveling from northern Indiana, we are just everywhere. You either love them or hate them because there is this false narrative passed down from non fans that has been perpetuated, especially when we get blown out by an elite. If you hold Alabama to the least they’ve scored all season and then Bama blows out osu by a larger margin. You’ll only hear shit about the Irish.
Only team in cfb with an international following. Was blessed to go to the navy game in Ireland in 2012 and tons of Dubliners said they watched games whenever they could. Jameson distillery created special bottles for the game. Very very cool experience
Absolutely agree! As a die-hard fan from Taiwan, I've followed Notre Dame for over 20 years, even traveling to South Bend for nine games. Critics like Stephen A. Smith overlook our global fan base and rich tradition. Despite their skepticism, I stand proudly with fellow Irish supporters worldwide. Go Irish!
Maybe "overrated" is the wrong term. But I think ND gets trashed because whether it be big regular season games, New Year's 6 or Playoff games- They don't show up. 🤷🏿
@@OpenMikein7The majority of the country doesn't show up for those games. The majority of the country doesn't even make those games.
@davidboniface858 ND gets on the big stage and gets bodied just about every time. I think their called "overrated" because ND will go 11-1 or undefeated vs their schedule, play a top 5 program and get destroyed. People will say you might as well have let cincinnati or ucf take the Irish spot.. them losing a lot and not really being competitive doesn't help your argument.
If you’re talking about right now, everything he said is correct. We are very good, not great. Getting to be great under MF. In terms of history, nobody has more history and greatness than Notre Dame. Even Alabama. Even Michigan.
As a die hard Notre Dame fan I just sit back and laugh when people talk about us, because you can’t help but talk about us 🤣
Notre Dame has been a steady program over the past 8 years. Marcus Freeman has been a good hire and has gotten better as a coach.
People always pick on ND because they’re low hanging fruit. It’s pretty excessive. If winning national championships in recent memory (in the last 10 years) was the standard for relevance then only a handful of teams would be relevant. ND is fine just where they’re at. And they’ll most likely make the playoffs next year as a top 12 team.
Part of it is them not winning a BCS/NY6 Bowl Game in 25 years while plenty of programs not thought of as on the same level have won multiple (TCU, UCF, etc)
@@ZMack1023 This is where the "ND is overrated" argument takes a turn. Most reasonable ND fans will admit that ND gets preferential treatment when it comes to bowl selection because of the amount of money that ND can generate. However, this works against ND's favor because they end up getting placed in higher-tier bowls and matched against better opponents than what they should. You can look at the betting lines of past ND bowl games and see that they're RARELY favored to win because money has been the driving factor in a lot of the matchups, not competion.
@@jdonahue173notre dame outsides of the playoffs have been winning the majority of their bowls tho. Lol.
@@ZMack1023 fair enough
I think Auburn is a bigger brand going forward with hugh freeze and being the coach who beat Saban more than Kirby and recruiting is better !
2:08 Just fyi for the graphic, the Navy game is at Met Life Stadium, since it seemingly lists neutral site game locations.
And they may just be in the elite category this upcoming season. Only time will tell but I believe the talent and coaching is there for a run
It's clear that ND lives 'rent free' in many peoples heads! Even-handed and well done, Mr. Pate.
Very good take and you are spot on about Notre Dame! I’m glad someone said it after the clown show we saw on espn this week. ☘️
ND starting to spend money.... that makes for some scary teams possibly in the making. That place has a 35B endowment folks... and has been a tight wad the last decade
Stephen A spent 3 1/2 minutes talking about irrelevant Notre Dame in the offseason.
Norte Dame football is relevant bc they signed a great TV deal 40 years ago, and their brand is tied to a religion not because of anything they’ve accomplished on the field
They are 0-8 in BSC/ NY6 bowl games.
Their last major bowl win was 30 year ago
Half of their fanbase has nothing to do w the school outside of a religious affiliation or their dad/ grandpa liking them bc “that’s who was on TV when I grew up”
I agree that it's a media/poll problem. They've lost all 5 BCS and CFP games in which they've played. In those games, they've never gotten closer than 14pts and lost by an average of over 21pts. They lost 9 consecutive bowl games from 1995-2006. I'd argue that indicates they were ranked too highly and put in bowls they had no business being in, which is not the program's fault.
And how many of those bowls was ND favored to win?
@@Necile2 Results are what matter.
@@Educated2Extinction So?
@Necile2 Let me know if you decide to make a point.
Josh, you nailed it! Are there some ND fans who are a bit strong? Sure, just like every other school. Every school strives to do its best and really Notre Dame is no different in that respect. How people perceive Notre Dame is not Notre Dame's problem.
At the end of the day if ND was irrelevant as people say, I guarantee they would have joined a conference long ago. They would have not fought so long and hard to remain independent and every current conference would be willing to do what they can to get them in.
That to me is all you need to say. If it was ONLY success on the field maybe you could make the argument but it never has been.
I think with the prior playoff system, ND might have buckeld to loin a conference. however; now that it's expanded to 12, there's no reason too. South bend is a terrible location to build a football empire. them going independent and playing nationwide was the smartest thing they did. being in the bigten would have put a ceiling on their growth.
The Big 10 might have either wanted a piece of ND's NBC contract or force them to break it.
@@williamw3501 Why is South Bend "a terrible place to build a football empire"? What a dumb and lazy take. Like Columbus or Ann Arbor is any better? In fact, Ann Arbor gets colder than SB does!
@ramboeastwood1522 I should have said when it started. a program is typically good as it is location and recruited potential. Michigan and Ohio state started before notre dame did. even today, the area is crowded. whereas someone like usc has no basically no competition between Texas and Oregon. notre dame was the first team to go out of its way to become a national brand so it could recruit nationwide. if they stayed in the midwest the past 100 years, it would have suffocated constantly competing with osu and michigan. compound that with the academics, it would have likely turned into a northwestern or Stanford. it's not an insult. it was a smart move by notre Dame.
@ramboeastwood1522 dose that makes sense? indiana has a small population. where back on the 40s, the Detroit metro area was huge and had talent pool. Ohio has a lot of talent to pull from, plus if Go East michigan, penn State,Ohio state, take take the pick there too. that's why it seldom to see two programs right next door being really competitive at the same time.
Thanks, this is fair assessment. Too many people (mostly media probably) want to call a program "trash" if they not in top 10 or or top 5 all the time. That's just unreasonable for any program.
Why is ND's AD in the room with the conference commissioners? Why does ND think it should get the spoils of major CFB without joining a conference? Josh can act like it is not ND, it the media, but that is BS. ND thinks it should be separate and special when it wants and it should still share in the spoils the same as everyone else. F ND and it's fans. When they win a major post season game again, come see me. Until then, they are some other team that does not matter. Knute Rockne and the 4 horsemen were a long time ago. Hell, Holzt - the last time they really mattered - was a long time ago. Hope these FACTS don't hurt your feelings.
Last time they win a ship it was stolen from Miami in 1988 with a horrendous call against Cleveland Gary. Miami wins they win the ship. Asterix
@@jaimealvarezmd7245 Kind of like how ND got screwed out of the 1993 championship by FSU, right?
I love when they say the overrated jingle. ND is irrelevant, but they end up in the "key wins" category for every opposing team. And to those that just can't hold back the jealousy and hate......before you comment on how awful ND is....name your team....it's always Crickets University.
FACTS. Appreciate the honesty and truth. People need to hear it. ND has not been as good as Bama, Georgia, Clemson(a few years back), and Ohio State, etc. They’ve been a 10-15 team on average the past 5-8 years. They haven’t been those teams but barely anyone else has either. They are amongst the first at that second table, as Josh said. Agreed. Go irish ☘️
I’m not a Notre dame fan for the most part I don’t care about them. But I think the Notre dame hate comes from jealousy for their ability to be independent. You don’t think the pac 12 schools wish they would’ve been relevant without having to jump to another conference.
And don’t give me they’re arrogant for being independent. Notre dame tried multiple times in their history to join the big 10 and Michigan blocked them the last time was in the 2000s when penn state was chosen instead of them. Notre dame made it work being independent.
Everyone knows it's jealousy. Those haters actually think they're fooling people.
I've got no quarrel with anything you said. All I know is that in the fall my favorite team every Saturday is whoever is playing Notre Dame.
I have been saying this for years! Thanks Josh!
Thank you for sticking up for the Irish. i appreciate you 🙏 Go Irish! We need more people like you in college football media. You make sense. God bless you 🙏
Mr. Pate
Two words
Thank you
Thank you for being truthful and fair. ND is not the best. But ND is a good solid program.
Thank you for being fair
Other media are not. Period
This is the same video you made about Penn State a couple weeks ago just switched out PSU for ND both very appropriately ranked
I think the problem is people and colleges are getting worried now cause ND is allowed to do what the elite team's have been doing illegally for years. And also they see coach Freeman and his staff are starting to become elite recruiters and going in everyone's backyard to get some of these players. And they all know once ND becomes elite again which will happen soon the college football world will be theirs and they dont want that to happen.
This is why the SEC had one of their worst overall performances in over a decade. It leveled the playing field (for the teams that have the money). I'm happy to see them start to invest proportionately to elite teams again. It will pay off eventually.
Delusion is fun ain't it
@@jaimealvarezmd7245I'm guessing you would know alot about delusional
@@jaimealvarezmd7245 And jealousy is hideously ugly.
OSU has a 6-0 record against Notre Dame since 1995. The last time Ohio state lost to notre dame was 1936. I would never say Notre dame is irrelevant because they are typically a really good team, but they certainly have their issues like most other programs.
How many other teams have a losing record against OSU? Why are you singling out ND?
Thank you Josh. I applaud your honesty with regard to the ND program. At the moment they are second tier. But the recruiting classes are getting consistent top 10 for the last 3-4 years. The head coach is young, energetic and relates to the players.
They may not win a natty but I would rather be here than a program in turmoil/transition and struggling. Besides if you have never been on campus for a game day? It is a bucket list item. September to early October is prime weather. Leaves turning, warm temps and a beautiful campus.
Keep up the good work. You are doing a great job.
ND in the NFL. Look it up.
Auburn football look up their tv ratings and talent composite and in a state with no NFL teams makes them so special
Miami will be taking that ngl hall of fame spot from nd in 5 yrs
THANK YOU FOR LETTING THE OTHERS KNOW WHAT A REASONABLE PERSON SHOULD. THE ONES MAKING THESE STATEMENTS CANNOT BE UNBIASED AS A TV PERSONALITY!!!
Also I hear the pundits talk about how long between championships it has been for Nd. What about Georgia?
Thats true
Or Michigan? Or about 100+ other teams?
Teams that have won a College Football Championship since Notre Dame last won:
Alabama
Auburn
Texas
USC
Miami
Florida
Florida St
Ohio St.
Michigan
Oklahoma
Tennessee
Georgia
Clemson
Nebraska
14 teams.
14.
And of those on that list, 5 have not won in over 2 decades.
So, Notre Dame wins 10-11 games per year, makes the Playoffs twice, BCS once, but they are "irrelevant"
I remember when they said Michigan was Irrelevant.
Hell, I remember when NOBODY gave a rip about Clemson.
How about Miami? One of the most dominant College football teams in history, but not so much lately. Are they "irrelevant"?
Why not just cut College Football down to 8 teams, and that way the whiners can rub one out to their favorite team winning each year.
I love the haters, though.
ESPECIALLY the SEC fans...
LMAO!
If you are not Georgia, Alabama, or LSU fans yet chant "SEC! SEC! SEC!" when one of those teams wins, you are, by definition, a moron.
Cheering for a CONFERENCE because YOUR SCHOOL can't co.pete. Good lord you guys are hilarious!
Josh spot on and keeping it real. A very good team trying to kick in the door.
The only complaint I have about ND has more to do with there fans thinking they are more then what they are. I have heard so many ND fans complain about the new play off not being fair and the ND president should have vetoed it. First off the SEC and Big Ten are going to look out for there interests they could care less about what it does to any school outside of there conferences which is what they should be doing. Secondly if they had tried to hold up any deal they would quickly find themselves out of the conversation all together because the Big Ten and SEC are powerful enough now that they get to make all the rules and if you stand in there way you will get steamrolled. Because you are independent and on your own you are not going to get a seat at the table and will just have to except whatever decision that comes down from the Big 2
ND fan here. I can assure you most ND fans have been aware of the new playoff rules for a couple years and are totally fine with it. If anything it could be seen as an advantage for us. If you see any ND fans complaining online they either haven’t thought it through completely or they don’t have all the information
I’m surprised at how comfortable you are with other entities that do not have your interests at heart dictating your future I think ND in the end will be forced to join a conference either because the money gap is just to big for them to compete, cut off access to play anyone in the big 2 or lose access to the playoff. I think if they wait until after the ACC is broke up and we know who the teams are that make the cut the likelihood that the Big Ten or SEC would let them in drops dramatically because they just won’t need them and in fact them being independent is taking money and attention away from there programs
@@johnboltz2768 I just don’t agree with that last part. ND will have no issue finding a conference to join if they are forced to. The brand and revenue stream is just too big. That’s why other conferences like the Big 10 have already come to the door begging for them to join. No one is going to say no to a brand that big.
@@johnboltz2768 The thought of ND not being welcomed with open arms by any conference is laughable. I say that not because ND has had any great recent success on the field, but because of the amount of revenue that ND would generate for a conference.
One of the main reasons the ND football program has been able to stay independent for so long is because of the enormous amount of money they are able to generate on their own. Every conference would be falling all over themselves to add those revenue dollars.
The only way ND will ever be forced into a conference is if their path to a national championship is ever blocked. As long as ND has a way into the playoff, they'll stay independent.
Also - no reasonable ND fan is complaining about the playoff structure. ND doesn't have to play a conference championship game, so they essentially have an easier path to get into the playoff.
@@jdonahue173 I think I need to clarify right now you are correct ND is the biggest fish out there that is not already committed they are not the biggest brand overall. What will happen over time is little by little they will be cut off that is why ESPN is so public ally going after them. I think ND would be an awesome addition especially to the Big Ten for so many reasons I won’t get into. I guess CV my point is they are on a time clock the will at some point be fired to join a conference the longer they wait the more risk they run at being shut out of it all. They won’t destroy you over night they will little by little isolate you the fact that ESPN is attacking you so blatantly is a sign a shot across the bow saying there has been a massive shift in power and you will either jump on the wagon or we will slowly and methodically tear you down. We start with public persecution then once that target is achieved we go for your games like USC if that does do it then we keep tearing you down but by bit until no one even remembers anything good ND has ever done. Then once public perception is what they need it to be you will be totally cut off. When you are independent you have no ally’s or anyone that will stick up for you. When you had 5 conferences and divided power you could get away with that but not that all the power is consolidating you will join or tossed on the scrapbook of history
Can't wait for the new season to start! Let's Go Fighting Irish!☘☘☘
As a Michigan fan I usually hear "overrated" or "irrelevant" when pointed at Notre Dame in the same way it gets pointed at Michigan. It's people who don't like that their school doesn't have the same history or institutional cachet as Michigan or Notre Dame, so they have to lean on whatever recency-biased silliness caters to what they want to believe.
In other words, I take it as a backhanded compliment to the program I support, since it's clear the reason they feel angry about it in the first place is insecurity.
Definitely one of the first seats at the second table!
Saying Notre Dame is not relevant to college football, is like saying Whiskey is not relevant to Ireland..............Good job Josh..
Thank you Josh for infusing rational thinking into this hater debate. Despite people no longer caring about student-athletics, Notre Dame has demonstrated a definite chair at the second table all through the Kelly and Freeman years despite having academic qualifications. Should be applauded, not vilified. This small 9,000 student school does it right, and has beaten Clemson twice, Oklahoma, Michigan, USC numerous times, and lost to Georgia by a total of 7 points over two games!
Good analysis by JP. ND is definitely relevant. They are a top 10 program that may be on the rise to the top 5 with Marcus Freeman. But it would seem their days as an independent will end soon.
Thank You Josh!!
100% agree with this analysis. As an ND fan I’ve said that over the past decade or so, ND is a great program, not elite, but in that 5-10 range. Bama, Georgia, Clemson, OSU, OU probably, and now (as much as it pains me) Michigan over the past few years. They get clicks so they are talked about a lot, but even the preseason rankings vs final rankings don’t show them as really being overrated either. They’ve gotta make some strides to become elite, but if losing to Bama, and Clemson in the playoffs makes them trash then 95% of college football teams are trash.
I love Josh. He says exactly what I always say to the haters who never reply when I say the same thing. How are we underrated when we aren’t even predict to win the whole thing and make in into the top 10 at the end of the season? Make it make sense. lol.
ND is not irrelevant. I think some people are confusing results with national profile. ND is one of the most well supported teams in college football. The reason people are talking about ND right now is there is a distinct possibility with realignment there are less seats at the table and SECs and BIG10s of the world with their size and influence will influence the rules in the future so playoff births are allocated by conference and with ND remaining independent means they could be left out of the dance even if they have a good season. College football is ruled by money so if it makes sense got ND to join a conference they will. All the talk right now is just that, talk. Personally I do find some ND fan’s annoying but no more so than Texas, Alabama or Ohio State fans. However that is probably influenced by the Michigan fan in me.
Yeah, good thing there are no insufferable Michigan fans.
Talkin' about Notre Damn in February isn't relevance. Its boredom.
Logic. Reasoning. We love JP! ❤☘️❤️☘️❤️☘️. Go Irish!
Higher academic standards. Way higher. Independent. Still winning 10+ games a year and sending a lot of players to the NFL. Pretty good if you ask me.
I respect you Josh you said this last year as well thank you. Haters gonna hate. Go Irish!
What’s there playoff/bcs record the past 20 years?
The Notre Dame AD is the only AD on the CFP board. I suppose that makes Notre Dame relevant, at least to some extent.
If they’re not relevant then why do people debate them so much. Outside of bama, Georgia, clemson and Michigan, Ohio st ND is the best program in the last 10 years. So 5 programs in the country are better than them but yeah they’re not relevant 👌
Oklahoma is a better program over the last 10 years than ND.
I am a Red Raider & Southern Baptist, ND is THE brand in CFB and the biggest reason CFB became a nationwide sport. For decades, ND was the only nationally known or followed teams. Everyone in the USA knows the brand and knows it is a good program. If ND is in the NC game, it will be the most viewed NC game in CFB history.
I am living in Thailand and ND is the most relevant College Football program in College football in history Period Like it or not. Steven A is a complete idiot just looking for clickbait and yes we have a ND fan club here in Thailand haven't seen another college team here not even close with the same following. Let me remind you that ND ranks #1 or 2 in most of the College football category's for Players put in the NFL #1 , Heisman Trophies #1 Nattys, #2 Players in the Pro and College Football Hall of Fame #1 1st round draft picks #3, Unanimous All Americans #2 and if not for a BS NCAA ruling they would have the highest winning % so lets get real people not bad for a little school in Indiana
Notre Dame is a top 15 team as of recently. I’m not gonna sit here and say they should be higher, they fall short on games that could really make a statement for them but I think they earned their rank this past season.
Well said sir. All facts. Go ☘️
A few competing points:
ND is the Taylor Swift of college football. Yes we’re talking about them in February, same as some people are talking about Kansas and Colorado (again). They get forced down our throats by the media and overhyped fans.
ND CBS and your CBS colleagues are literally ranking them top 10 on average - yes that’s overrated and ratings come from media/figureheads that aren’t named ND because if ND (or any program for that matter) were to rate themselves, they’d say they see them as elite or the best.
ND SOS the past 5 years:
23-24: 11th
22-23: 33rd
21-22: 21st
20-21: 7th (WHEN THEY PLAYED IN THE ACC)
19-20: 16th
Absolutely overrated team that needs to play in a conference to have an A-tier (not an S tier) schedule. If they (meaning their fans and media and team alike) want to be taken seriously and want these egregiously overrated standings in media to not be laughed at - there’s your solution. Get into a conference like all of your other sports programs. And don’t say it’s “impossible”, check out all the realignments and jumping of conferences - they know ACC means they become a 3-4 loss team on average and are reset back to the Clemson post-dabo saying no to the transfer portal
Notre Dame is 32-2 in the last 34 games against the ACC. We would not be a 3-4 loss team as an ACC member.
@@NDMatador there's a difference between playing 34 games against the ACC and having a conference schedule. Over the course of x years it is easy to rack up wins against a conference, whereas back to back road games against a Clemson or a hot NC State could prove difficult. The only year they did this was in the 2020 COVID year. On top of that, if they're so confident that the ACC would be a clean sweep, why haven't they followed EVERY OTHER SPORT? And don't claim "because money/media". FSU has made it abundantly clear that money and media can be sued and detached from.
6 games a year vs ACC compared to 9 games, ND would still have an overwhelmingly winning record. That speaks to ND as a program and the ACC as a mid conference. ND already plays road back to backs every year against the ACC. Why hasn’t ND followed all other teams (except hockey) to the ACC? It’s very simple, we don’t have to.
32-2 against the ACC recently.. Please know your facts before writing a novel. 😂
@@NDMatador those “back to back” games were UVA and GT, a mid tier Clemson and Syracuse and Duke and UL for the past three years. That’s not impressive lol. Don’t get me wrong, yall are a good team each year but until you guys hit that ACC schedule or do something in the post season, ND will always be overrated. Also we need to stop acting like the ACC has any in conference depth. That conference is worse than the sun belt. I would love to see ND join the big 10
It doesn’t matter if ND has a great, good or poor record. They bring in the viewers and that’s all that matters for the people running CFB. So ND may be irrelevant in this or that year’s championship or best teams discussion, but as long as they bring in the viewers they are relevant to the networks who supply the money.
This topic has been viral for decades. So much for being "irrelevant."
We need to join a conference!!!! Damn relevant, we want another championship. We need to figure out how to get 5 star elite athletes 😤
A conference doesn't make you recruit better. Maryland isn't all of a sudden a great recruiter because they have a Big Ten sticker. Either you have the staff or you don't.
@davidboniface858 Maryland is not and has NEVER been at NDs level. Going the big ten gives ND more exposure to athletes, 5 star and portal athletes who may have opted for Ohio State, Michigan, and Southern Cal, ALL who have won national titles since we last won one.
Plus no way ND win 3 games in a playoff against elite teams. It ain't going to happen
@@Trebor1960 In what way does ND not have exposure to those 5 star athletes now?
ND's independence allows them the schedule flexibility to play games from coast to coast, rather than being limited to a certain geographical region. Their deal with the ACC allows them to play games in Florida, Virginia, and North Carolina and their rivalries with USC and Stanford allow them to play in California every year. They will usually throw in neutral site games in New York, Texas or Chicago.
The only limit ND has recruiting-wise is their high academic standards, which automatically reduces the available recruiting pool by about 30-40%. Those standards are not changing anytime soon.
There are valid arguments to be made for ND joining a conference. Recruiting is not one. Conference affiliation does absolutely NOTHING for ND's recruiting.
@@Trebor1960that will do nothing. ND can't get more than 1 or 2 5-stars typically is because there are only around 55 of them so finding a bunch of those kids with the grades is difficult.
then when you do find the kids with the grades you still have to out recruit local schools in the south and on the west coast as well as convince them that they NEED an ND degree when many of them are only focused on making the league.
Not to mention that not many power 4 football players going to any school don't have a job lined up if it's not in the NFL. Nike basically hands jobs to Oregon players.
I genuinely don't know how anyone can expect them to get as many 5 stars as Miami, Ohio State, Bama, Georgia or insert whatever 3rd and 4th SEC team is hot that year on a consistent basis.
Is it possible to have years where they can? 100%
But being in a conference doesn't fix that. Winning literally anything does. Win a playoff game or better yet a championship that is the biggest improvement ND can make to there recruiting pitch.
And that is extremely possible. We saw Washington and TCU win playoff games with recruiting classes outside of the top 25. We saw Michigan win a Natty and Notre Dame perpetually out recruits Michigan in the rankings.
There are no more excuses when teams like that can win. None. Zero. And once they do win something of relevance for the first time in essentially 40 years, Notre Dame will unlock a new level to there recruiting.
But these kids have parents who weren't alive last time ND won.
@@jdonahue173 interesting assessment we just disagree.
ND gets a little boost in the rankings pre-season. So do a lot of other teams each year. They also pull more TV eyes than most other programs. Big whoop.
All I'm saying is if you look at Josh's last 15 videos the Kalen DeBoer Bama video has the most with 28K views. This Notre Dame video is second with 19K. If that's not relevancy I don't know what is.
NOT a top tier program and haven’t been for 20 plus years. They’d be a mid tier SEC team usually bowl eligible, but losing 3 to 5 games a year.
Conferences and Teams are scared because, if ND ever gets back into the elite group and start winning championships, every conference including the SEC and Big Ten will get hurt. Everyone is praying for a team like ND never wins another National Championship. It’s tough to beat the relevancy of a team that still cares about academics as much as sports.
If...😅
Everybody likes to dump on ND because their own players end up in jail and contributing NOTHING to society.
The issue isnt where ND ranks. Its that the new playoff seeding doesn't allot them an automatic bid into the playoff. This has been my problem with them as a Michigan fan. They want all the accolades and none of the criticisms. They play every sport other than football in the ACC but want special privileges for football and "value their independence". They are a spoiled franchise who is getting paid pennies on their NBC/Peacock deal compared to the Big Ten and will likely get kicked off of NBC when their deal ends in 2028. Just join a conference already
The problem with ND is they lose all the big games. they think as a catholic school they are so holy and above everyone else because of academics and still believe they are the greatest!
notre dame is in the same boat as michigan was. there a blue chip program with a massive fan base people love to hate. there consistently a A tier program. not S tier. at least not at the moment but most aren't, not consistently. they will eventually make it back.
go blue!
Irish ☘️ are elite ❤
Funny how Notre dame gets crap for “not playing anyone” but people will trip over themselves to tell you how elite teams like Ohio state are for being able to consistently beat the crap out of competition like Rutgers 10 times a year.
Or how elite SEC teams take on East Alabama Southern Tech in the middle of November.
As far as the Big 10 goes, who is in that conference (before fall 2024) besides Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State.... Same goes for the SEC, outside of Georgia and Alabama, who else is elite in that conference? Vanderbilt? Kentucky? Tennessee? No, there are just as many trash teams in every conference. And maybe 1 or 2 elite teams in every conference
Positive Pate
Notre dame is the only team to start 2-0 with wins over rice and ball st and somehow go from unranked to top 10. They get love based on their past.
They need to join a conference for football if they want to conoete fir championships
Someone from the media who uses facts for their argument.
But they did beat Clem twice
Love it! Going to laugh my ass off when ND says f it and open’s their 18 billion dollar pocketbook to prove a point. It’ll happen bank on it!
I mean, they already have with the Denbrock hire, and the Golden extension 😆
The same people that say ND is irrelevant are the same people tv at talk about them all year long lol
Is Josh Pate any relation to Joe Pate a long time South Bend sportscaster from back in the day?
Thanks josh!! I let smith and finnbaum my thoughts yesterday ( term i used was jackasses😂)but i know they had no idea ND is ranked 8th in winning percentage in the last 10 yrs👍🏈
notre dame is a fine team but they always underperform in playoff games/ championship gamesfor the past 10+ years. theyre very good. maybe top 10 sometimes but not a serious contender.
Agreed but i think with the coaches they have, they have the opportunity to turn that around.
The majority of the country hasn't even made a playoff game or has performed just as bad as Notre Dame
Notre Dame is an above average team, not elite. However, their fans are so annoying (Golden Domer) that it feels good to say they're trash. Also, we all know they get blown out in the playoffs regularly, so it's fun to pick at them.
That’s all you got? Lots of teams get blown out in the playoffs. Clemson beat OSU like 32-0 one year. Did you watch the 65-7 natty last year?? TFOH! 🤣
@@shawndavis8856 OSU has actually won a championship within the last 10 years. ND hasn't been a champ since the 1980's.
What’s the data on success rate playing with 10 guys on the field? Freeman and the whole program is an embarrassment to college football.
We gonna be a great team they are getting better players and all right now they gotta keep freeman I feel he could get us to the promise land
Notre Dame is also the 2nd smallest school & you have to have at least a 3.3 GPA to play football there.
Sane with miami so don't fall off your high horse
This team doesn't have astronomical standards, grow up. This is not the Service academies. They have NIL. 5 star wants to get into the school, they will.