now that could be possible but what if shaman village was connected-- a link between the two villages. Like the houses in both are very similar. before marika sealed away the realm of shadow.
Dude I think your really on to something, the windmill village and it's people I believe is strongly inspired by Scandinavian history and folklore, specifically midsummer (hence the flowercrowns), blond/white braids and their clothing resembles Scandinavian, specifically swedish folk attire. Might be related to "hårgalåten" written in 1795 one of the most famous swedish folksongs which is about the devil in disguise playing his violin, forcing a village festival to dance onto a hill and dance untill they all die. And it even works in the sense that the snake is often closely related to the devil in the bible. Not to mention that when sweden became a Christian, they allowed many old traditions to still take place (the golden order tolerating the ancient festival) Rough translation on some of the verses: The fiddler grabbed his fiddle from the case, and lifted his bow to the dawning of the sunny sunday, Then the people of Harga came with haste, they forgot about the whole world and god. The dance went on to meadows and hills, high ontop of the Harga ridge. Shoes and soles torn, the dance would never be stopped. Cease your bow before you dance life and soul, and all of their bones out of their body. No he won't stop untill we are all dead. (The verses vary a bit like with many folksongs, I skipped some bits that wasn't really relevant to the elden ring connection) Really cool you drew that connection, hope this info lends more legitimacy to your theory.
@@TCarterWilson-xm9hi if you believe the Lands of Shadow is lifted from the main map (caelid to leyndell gap in the map) theory, the Shaman Village and Leyndell is all roughly connected. The windmill would have overlooked Gaius boss arena / shaman land
@tomRstincts absolutely! Marika always gave me Nordic / Midsommar vibes with the introduction of Shamans and the godskin conmection to Marikas ascension and a 'Serpent god' motiff that exists on both Marika and Godskins. Ties the godskin acolyte, dancing women and dominulas flowers to Shaman village
@@concretephill8509yes, she even choose a husband who in many ways represent the Aesir faith, godfrey. It's clearly paralleled to him being seen as barbaric with his endless hunger for war and combat. And that being frowned upon forcing him to change his name and have his beast shoulder his rage in order to act more civil. It's even paralleled in that even though he was considered barbaric, one might wonder if Marika was even more barbaric in actions than godfrey ever was. In many ways same could be said for christianity being seen as a more civil religion than the now pretty much dead Aesir faith. Yet alot of war has happened under christianity. (don't mean to attack christians with this) Meanwhile, under the Aesir faith women had more rights than anywhere else in the world, largely due to the men being scanagers, looters and pilligers. Further paralleling to Marikas and godfreys relation.
This is an old write-up now, with some recent updates from the DLC. Marika is the Gloam/Dusk-Eyed Queen. - There's a red and black spike of death impaling Marika and keeping her in place when we find her at the end. Only Maliketh wields this power, and only he could even defeat a God like Marika. But he's so loyal to her, why would he? - Maliketh "defeated" the Gloam/Dusk-Eyed Queen. We know Shadowbound hounds have to attack their former master if The Fingers feel like the Empyrean is acting against them. We play through this reality with Ranni's quest, and both she and Iji know Blaidd will go mad as she enacts her vision. How do they know this happens? They saw/heard of it happening to Maliketh and Marika already. - 7 seemingly Grace-tinged faces adorn the aprons of the Godskin Nobles. There are 7 Walking Masoleums in the game. A ghostly NPC mentions in a prayer to Queen Marika that a local one contains "your unwanted child..." within. The corpses we find within are seemingly skinned. - Only Marika would be able to guide Ranni to the location of the Rune of Death and how to use it for it to be stolen in the first place to forge the Black Knives. Remember, "Marika... is this what it is to sin?" "Why gull me..." Marika, after all, had only one use for Maliketh in the end, after the other work was done... a vessel to seal away Destined Death. And even then, she betrayed him. - The Beast Eye is a purple, scratched up eye. It's Marika's eye from being defeated and imprisoned by her Shadowbound. No other Queen or Empyrean is "defeated" but not slain, as the text implies there except Marika. And who but her purpose-made hound could even stop her, a God? The one entity empowered enough by the Ring/Fingers to be able to do so should the need arise. - Dominula Village is much like the Hinterlands and the Shaman Village. We find a skinning ritual and a Godskin Apostle there in Dominula. We learn that the "festival" is old and tacitly accepted by the Golden Order. The aesthetic of these villages is much the same, and they're intimately tied to Marika herself. - Gideon gives us a boon in the form of a secret rite known only to him, Black Flame Protection. He is alleged to have peered into the will of Queen Marika and shuddered at the end that should not be. - The Scadutree is of a dual nature. So is Queen Marika. When Gold arose, so too was Shadow born. Gold and Shadow exist as necessary contrasts to each other, yet in a God, in Marika, this duality exists in coalesce, or it did once. - No other characters are named as Queen or Empyrean that aren't already accounted for/ruled out to be the GEQ, and by that I mean Melina, she was given purpose by her mother at the foot of the Erdtree and that means she is a daughter of Marika, not old enough to be the GEQ but possesses traits of both Marika and Radagon. Eye color and hair color are passed down traits we see in game. Well, sure enough, Melina shows us a purple/gloamy eye in one ending. Inherited trait from her mother, the Queen in Black. Marika's eyes are never shown to us to judge their color. - Duskborn ending sees Godwyn rise to ascendancy and sees Death restored, with him as the Prince of Death itself. These titles aren't meaningless. Duskborn? The "Prince" of Death? Well, who would the Queen be? If Godwyn is Duskborn, and if he is a Prince, his mother would, of course, be associated with "Dusk" and be a Queen. And we know his mother is Queen Marika. - Godwyn is referred to as the "Prince of Gold" in an item description. If a Prince of Death could have been a Prince of Gold, why couldn't his mother hold this potential as well, even necessarily so? We see from the Death Knights that Gold and Death can somehow synergize even still... Gold and Shadow, born at the same time, same as it ever was. - Fia is hooded with a black cloak and comes from some other land. She also helps create Godwyn's Duskborn ending and is Death-aligned. We see Marika wearing black hooded garb in a statue where she also is holding the twins Miquella and Malenia. Her tattered clothing as we find her at the end is also black. She is also associated with the Nox/Numen race and the Black Knife Assassins that come from there as well. - Statues of Marika in her crucified pose all show her with a flowing black cloth that wraps behind her in almost the exact same shape as the Godslayer Greatsword, which was the weapon or ritual sword of the GEQ/DEQ. You have to pivot the camera a bit to get a good view, but the shape is very similar. Coiled and then open, with one flap slightly longer than the other, same tip design on the Godslayer Greatsword. It's possible that she was propped up by the Hornsent culture and then part of the betrayal was killing other Gods in their pantheon, but what's maybe more possible is as Centered Tarnished pointed out, that Marika culled some other of her "unwanted" children after learning the truth of the broken Fingers and flawed foundations of her Order. - Hewg prays to Queen Marika about his given task to craft a Godslaying weapon. Very interesting and specific task. Marika wants a God slain. He mentions "the sheer terror of Her..." regarding Marika. Godskins certainly take an interest in killing a God. Who was their leader? A "defeated" Queen who was once an Empyrean. Marika. - Raging Wolf Vargram is a would-be Shadow. Wolf imagery is on his armor. He wields the Godslayer Greatsword. The weapon art is "The Queen's Black Flame", of course. A statue of Marika exists in Farum Azula, depicting her with three wolves. - Marika learned the secrets of the Golden Order and realized her children would "amount only to sacrifices" as she instructed them. She knew the Erdtree was a soul parasite, and by sealing Death away, she weakened the Erdtree over time. She also had Godwyn buried at the roots of it, knowing that he would grow and overtake them, choking the Erdtree further. As he was, Godwyn was an "unwanted" child since he embodied the Golden Order, and she was a prisoner to it. He would end up much like Miquella would, a caged divinity of some kind. She was likely opposed to the Erdtree and Greater Will/Fingers for a long time, weaving plots in secret until the Shattering. She realized, only too late, that ultimate power has a way of becoming a curse when the truth of the nature of it all is finally revealed. Just as Marika shined so brightly with her Golden Order, another aspect of her was as deep as the abyss and as dark as any shadow.
Great write-up, thanks for this. I've always wondered about the fingerslayer blade though and who's corpse it comes from. One of the Marika/GEQ plots against the Greater Will from before perhaps?
@@thesithofearth3617 it is blaidd, if you paid attention you're literally told blaidd is a baleful shadow which are the assassin's of the two fingers and that if ranni does anything that goes against the greater will and the fingers then blaidd is to put a stop to it by attacking ranni, much like maliketh to marika, and when you near the end of rannis questline the NPC that invades is literally named baleful shadow and looks like blaidd, it's not just some random assassin
There is also the interesting fact that Marika, being an obvious stand in for Odin would be associated with death as Odin is a god of the dead and death among his other titles.
I wonder if the "God Hunt" was Marika capturing Gods so she could put them in her children to contain them, and when she was done, she cast aside the Gloam Eyed Queen to protect herself and her children from death ultimately keeping the gods inside them imprisoned. I don't know, a little unhinged speculation.
One thing to consider is that the GEQ could be a different person/entity and we're looking at basically a piece of Marika's plan that was casted aside once their use was done. Marika has shown to have such a mindset considering Godfrey's departure. Another thing to consider is that GEQ could be Melina. Evidence of this most surmountable within the Frenzied Flame Ending and connecting the now revealed Violet like Iris of Melina to that of the Beast Eye given by Maliketh. I can further elaborate or provide details. What's most interesting is that Melina and Messmer are also most likely connected and this would also establish the clear connection of Marika's theme abandoning children. Messmer's use was completed upon Marika achieving her Godhood and casting aside the Land of Shadow. A similar idea would explain Melina's eventual removal as well with her use done as well. Mind you the connection between Melina and Messmer is best well established by Messmer's Kindling which states, "Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire." There is no other entity in the game this would have as close of a connection to than Melina. The only other entity we know of that is utilized so similar to Messmer in the sense both are used as Kindling to burn a tree. This again then goes back into Melina being Marika's daughter as referenced by her dialogue and the fact she has a butterfly (Smouldering Butterfly) which all children of Marika has (Miquella, Malenia, Melina, and Messmer). Basically, I'm not saying who you stated is far off but also to consider the facts that push that Melina is GEQ and consider that in the scope of what you've stated. Is it so far fetched that Marika would cast aside only Messmer? When Melina possibly with the power of Black Flame would most likely also be casted aside once her purpose was fulfilled in her grand scheme. I am not an advocate of such thoughts but I do want to propose the idea of GEQ being Melina. I can supply more "evidence" but mostly the Frenzied Flame ending and Beast Eye are our biggest lore facts.
this theory feels very Warhammer 40K with Big E in that setting shoving minor warp gods into specialty bodies to create demigod Primarchs, one of whom has semi split personality due to having two gods not one.
Would explain why Malenia becomes a goddess, Miquella tries to, Ranni does, and the rest focus on their own strengths. If this is true though, my boy Godrick got no gods no hows
They do, and we get the saints from them. The flayed hornsent were nowhere near so coherent a form as the gates, which almost looked like they were filled with bodies similar to the furnace golem
I saw someone point out that in the story trailer, Marika is topless as though she just transformed back from Radagon. The theory was that Marika disguised as Radagon seduced and betrayed the Gloam-Eyed Queen, from which Messmer and Melina were born. Marika then raised them as her own. Makes sense to me since Messmer has red hair and his fight theme contains part of Radagon's.
Yeah, this makes the most sense to me, fits all that is happening in the story trailer. I think this mixed with the insights about Dominula make it likely that GEQ was her twin sister or something at shaman village, or even from wherever the numen came from. Cut content, the putrescent knight is the gloam eyed knight or something.
@@johncrondis4563 I do think GEQ was at least another shaman or maybe a Nox from how she features in the Dominula lore, and similar enough to Marika that they could be obfuscated into the same entity. My favorite theory is that GEQ was the shaman/Nox's real Empyrean whom Marika usurped then incorporated into her own lore to legitimize her rule. It would explain all the convenient yet conflicting evidence suggesting that Marika is GEQ, as well as Ymir's statement that Metyr had been malfunctioning since the time of Marika's ascension.
This is a really interesting idea. I’ve really bought in to the “Marika used to be the GEQ” theory because of how it can logically (tho not definitively) explain the whole story. BUT, this idea could probably also work and tell another very cool story. It’s such a shame we got so little detail about the GEQ in the DLC.
@@johncrondis4563 so if this is the case, the lump of meat Marika pulls the gold thread from is the remains of the GEQ, correct? Which would mean that she had just been defeated by Maliketh and the GEQ’s power was the last thing she needed to ascend to godhood? Or am i missing something?
@@autumnrain249 i knew there was something bothering me about this theory: Messmer is a demigod. We know that because when we defeat him, we get the “demigod felled” message. This would mean that Messmer had to have been born of Marika when she was already a god. So whether she did seduce the GEQ as Radagon - which i still think is an interesting and maybe possible idea btw - or not, Messmer and Melina are definitely Marika’s kids, and they were definitely born after Mohg, Morgott, and Godwyn as Godrick’s great rune definitively states that the golden lineage were the first demigods.
Nah, patches is an outer god. The most powerful outer god. That's why he's in so many fromsoft games. He's a god of chaos (not the frenzied flame type chaos), so he enjoys trolling and fun
The main flaw in the videos argumentation I'd like to point out, is the assumption that Marika sanctioned the current iteration of the festival at Dominula. It's just as, if not more, likely that the current affairs there arose after the Shattering. Interesting food for thought, I always got and made the impression that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was a rival empyrean to Marika, and perhaps someone she usurped or defended the Erdtree from. I expect as the lore community uncovers more about the full nature of the Crucible we'll also get closer to estimating the role of the Gloam-Eyed Queen.
A few other tells: the assasins of the round table hold, in particular the confessor assassin Crepus whose name derives from crepuscular: the dim hours of twilight (gloam) and dawn. The formless serpent deadly poison assassins. The scorpion rot blade and other items carried by confessor Rileigh. The shield of the guilty, and Marika's own children who were born from gloam as much as from gold. Miquella and Trina, a weaker version of their mother - Trina being sleep instead of death. The colors are deeply significant and follow the wheel: Marika by day, but at night she is GEQ. It was always there.
Great theory! I also love the idea of the Gloam-eyed Queen being one of Marikas siblings - a rival empyrean as you said. People speculate Messmer & Melina are children of the GEQ and that Marika took them after defeating her early on, Just to use and discard them as needed. I do wish we got more information about Melina in the DLC 😢
imo, she was the half of marika, separated from her once she ascended as god, and who tried to stop her for the same reason st. trina wanted to kill miquella. its her mortal side, the one still connected to the shamans, the fingers, her humanity, still connected to the world pre-erdtree. some sort of fragment of herself before becoming a god.the geq realized a world without death was unnatural and tried to stop her other half marika, but eventually was defeated. my other theory is that the geq was the grandmother herself, and her prayer was more or less a prayer for forgiveness.
I realized I only visually referenced it, but it's pretty interesting that the Black Flame incantations look a lot like the marks on the finger ruins. It's also pretty interesting that the Dominula Celebrants in the yellow Erdtree capes are referred to in-game as "Gardeners" while the blue Godskin cape wearers are "harvesters" which seems to reference life and death.
Many people have said that, yup! I don't think that means it can't be similar to the Gloam-Eyed Queen though? At least I can't see a reason to assume those are mutually exclusive possibilities.
Wait, I never noticed there was 2 different colors for their capes and look closely at both finger ruins, one has blue specks all over it, and then the one near Shaman village has yellow/golden specks all over.
Please make video on Melina. There is zero analysis from high quality and respectable creators. She's the main character besides us who put EVERYTHING into motion and succeeded. She's archetypal "Wizard" similar to Gandalf. Manipulative and influential person guiding everything from behind. I beg you! (I also think she might be the Queen and I'd love to hear more arguments against it) I'll buy you lot of coffees I promise on my life. Thanks for everything 🥹❤️
im really glad elden ring content creators are finally getting around to this angle. I really think, more than any other radical re-interpretation theory, this most perfectly explains Marika's inscrutable motivations and relations with Maliketh, Melina, Dominula, snakes, etc. The only other Empyrean shadow reflects his partner, he's granted a cold-infused sword even though he doesn't personally like the cold because Ranni is an empyrean connected to the cold dark moon. Marika's shadow is named Death of the Demigods. He's in all-black armor and wields a sword infused with Death. It just makes sense to me that he's actually the Gloam-Eyed Queen's shadow, and that she went against the intent of her Fingers, causing Maliketh to turn baleful, attack her directly, and bring her to heel. This is why Marika is so bitter towards him and why her only use of him was to seal away Death for later so it could be stolen away and used again. It just makes sense. Similarly, this really cleans up her whole plot with Hewg about forging a weapon to kill a god (her body, which is enslaved by the Elden Beast). She's aware that "godhood is a prison" as was made explicit in the DLC, and didn't want to be a part of the system, being so prideful she thought she could forge her way into it without being obedient to outside forces. She was forced into it, though, so she had a millenias-long plot to escape. The Melina thing is easily explained by using Millicent and her sisters as an analogy. She's a separate self, a bunshin/wakemi, an "offshoot" of Marika. A daughter but of a single parent, not even in the Marika/Radagon sense but literally just Marika.
Everything you said just makes so much sense. Hell, we've been searching for answers about this mysterious GEQ since Elden Ring's release and the answers have been right there in front of us the entire time. We just needed to connect the dots. Also, at one point, the GEQ was referenced as the "queen in black" but that descriptor was removed after a patch. Marika is the only queen that wears a black and gold gown.
I would like to believe that melina is the offshoot but she has her own butterfly and she seems to have similar blessing in power as messmer. Her curse might be eternal burning as indicated by her butterfly. Another thing is malenia’s offshoot bore none of her curse of rot at all. So I would assume that offshoot children usually do not have such cursed “blessing”
@@mattb6616 I missed that out. Kept having the notion it’s only Millicent who have the rot. But ya, unless marika has that eternal flame curse which cause melina to inherit the same curse.
I always thought so; it is why Maliketh couldn't figure out how he betrayed her ... as Gloam-Eyed Queen she went against the Greater Will which made Maliketh turn on her ... just like Blaidd is turning as Ranni is killing her fingers while we are killing Astel. Ranni kills her fingers with her 'real doll'. That is what makes the crater. This is why the doll we put the ring on is so different, then it goes away, then the 'safe doll' is here to communicate with us. Her main puppet is far away from Miquella and his influence. I also believe Marika is possibly the Snow-Witch that taught Ranni and Ranni is quietly finishing Marika's plans. Not that Marika's soul is gone, she is Melina, intentionally having her memories kept from her, but why she seems to 'channel' Marika when speaking her words and can control the runes, teleport us, cast the erdtree healing spell ... and has the gloam eye; the one Maliketh doesn't give us. She orchestrated Godwyn's death because he chose to be the prince of death and cooperated with his inner-outer-god. We still don't know who Miquella's inner-outer-god was. Remember, there is thousands of years of stuff going on and history to be mixed up. We have the burned Marika statues on the path to Leyndell.
Another interesting connection is all the stuff involving coffins. The game seems to imply that the coffins belong a numen burial practice, as the ants in the underground, who eat the bodies found interred in those coffins, drop Numen runes. And we know that Marika is at least "of the same stock" as the Numen, who are supposed "descendants of denizens of another world," implying that Marika, the shaman, at least shares a common ancestry with these Numen. Moreover, in the underground in the ancient dynasty ruins we also find images on obelisks depicting both the coffin ships we see in the cerulean cost and the practice of growing trees, further connecting the ancient dynasty and the Numen to the stone coffins which inter tainted fleshed, once intended to be burned by ghost flame. So it seems that the Numen, a people related to Marika in some respect, took part in burial practices which involved interring bodies in coffins to be burned by ghost flame before the Age of the Erdtree. Moreover, Miquella, probably very deliberately, chose to divest himself of St. Trina, the avatar of sleep, in Stone Coffin Fissure, whose lighter purple, once discarded and separated out from association with Miquella's gold, coalesces into a deeper velvet, the colour of the death which is Eternal Sleep extremely similar to the purple dusk colour otherwise associated with the Gloam-eyed Queen. This is not to mention the fact that in the game files the Putrescent Knight which guards the discarded St. Trina is called the Gloam-eyed Knight. In addition to this, the cerulean coast is one of the three locations that directly connect to a Finger Ruin, the other two being by the Shaman Village and under Manus Metyr. It seems plausible to me that the Numen (or shamans) were also present in Cerulean Coast, and that, perhaps, the Gloameyed Queen was an Empyrean associated with the Finger Ruins in that region, if not directly an aspect of Queen Marika herself. In this case, Marika would have encountered her Fingers in the ruins by the Shaman Village and the Gloam-eyed Queen in those by the Cerulean Coast. This would also explain why there is a Gaol in the nearby Charo's Hidden Grave, if there were at one point a shaman presence in this region, albeit associated with the death practices of coffin-burial rather than the life-practices of tree-growth that we see in the Shaman Village. The two other Gaols are 1) under Belurat and 2) by the Bonny Village, which, given the presence the same Grandmother "statue" that we find in Shaman Village, is implied to have originally been a Shaman settlement as well. This original association with death and spirits might also explain not only why Messmer's army makes festive grease (the recipe is found in the Battlefield Priest's Cookbook) but also why the boats of the Tibia Mariners, otherwise associated with spirit summoning, have been repurposed in the Shadow Keep: they are vestiges of Marika's shaman-heritage's former association with death. Perhaps at one point the Shaman were both associated with Life and Death (tree-growth and coffin fire-burial) and this is why they were found to be suitable vehicles for the Hornsent rituals (which are said to take "the cycle of Life and Death in mortal hands"), and maybe Marika discarded this death-aspect of her heritage when she resolved to inaugurate an age of Eternal Life. This may have been what was symbolised by the severing of her braid.
Yeah it's interesting that the channels I mostly listened to pre-DLC are relatively quiet while smaller ones are cooking up some good stuff or at least trying to right now.
This makes the timeline and the story cinematic make much more sense! Honestly, why is the sky purple in the trailer, why is everyone skinned on the gate of divinity? The only hitch is the whole 'Maliketh defeating her' side of things, that becomes more confusing if Marika is the GEQ. Still, I think you're definitely on to something!
From someone else's comment: "The only other Empyrean shadow reflects his partner, he's granted a cold-infused sword even though he doesn't personally like the cold because Ranni is an empyrean connected to the cold dark moon. Marika's shadow is named Death of the Demigods. He's in all-black armor and wields a sword infused with Death. It just makes sense to me that he's actually the Gloam-Eyed Queen's shadow, and that she went against the intent of her Fingers, causing Maliketh to turn baleful, attack her directly, and bring her to heel. This is why Marika is so bitter towards him and why her only use of him was to seal away Death for later so it could be stolen away and used again. It just makes sense. "
Something interesting about the Godslayer Greatsword that nobody ever seems to mention, is the fact that it's weilded by Vargram the Raging Wolf when we invade him with Bernahl in Leyndell. Vargram is described as being "One of the first Tarnished to arrive at the Roundtable" and his armour states that "According to the old legends, wolves are the shadows of the Empyrean. Vargram aspired to such a state himself." The original Roundtable is in the capital right next to Marika's chambers, and his armour description tells us that he wanted to be the shadow of an Empyrean - perhaps that Empyrean was Marika herself? This does seem to make more sense than a follower of one of Marika's enemies weilding her signature sword directly under Marika's nose.
The Dominula villager braids are actually a perfect match for Marika's if you consider they have one short braid and one long braid like the Marika statues.
I would think that the Dominula Village events are something that occured post shattering. The idea that the GEQ was marika could still stand but given that she rpesumably cast off the GEQ persona it may be that the Godskins were also against the 'new' Marika. This might fit a general storyline where Marika became the GEQ through the Hornsent and then sided with the great serpent to defeat them. That leads to the God Devouring Serpent, whose description seems highly related to the GEQ's Godslaying Fire. The similarity between Mesmer and the Godskins might also imply a very close relationship between Marika and the God Devouring Serpent, resulting in Mesmer and possibly Melina's births (through... magical shenanigans). Marika then discarding her alliance with the serpent post revenge and all of that part of her past to become the Golden Queen would fit this timeline. There's also a suggestion to be had in symbolism of Serpents, maidens and forbidden knowledge. Maybe Markia encountered the God Devouring Serpent and it was that encounter that put her on the path to destroying the Hornsent and leading to this current timeline.
I like the "Marika was a originally a jar" theory where this is concerned. She acted as the main Numen "body" of the Jar contents we sometimes run into. Both Radagon and GEQ were other people/beings blended in with her which she discarded as aspects of her conjoined self (like Miquella casting off St.Trina) while following the ritual for god-hood. She achieved apotheosis and those pieces of her survived as distinct beings. Radagon longed to become one with her again, while the GEQ did not...
Hm, the whole black flame apostles thing is killing gods and skinning them. Hornsent the people who potted up Marikas people, their entire religion was about ascending and becoming deities. If the god skins had some misplaced horns inlayed into their garbs it’s be a lot easier to piece together because other than the Hornsent who achieved deity status there really isn’t any other physical “gods” who could be skinned in Elden Ring. Maybe this could have been marikas betrayal and the god skins assisted in making the divinity gate in which they were subsequently pushed aside by marika. Not to mention it’s cute to have a simple explanation to why her first two children had visions of fire. Not to mention why Morgott and Mohgs blood have aspects of fire that don’t appear in other Omens.
Evidence to the god skins having a hand in making the divinity gate is the fact that in the original story trailer all the corpses that compose the gate were fresh and depicted completely flayed of flesh.
Amazing video. I think i’m convinced this makes the most sense. I also think this solves the mystery of a theory i’ve had about Melina, which is that absolutely no one but Marika knew about Melina’s existence so that Melina could be Marika’s ultimate trump card. i think the corpse that created the Fingerslayer blade is Melina’s body. If Marika was in fact the GEQ, as i’m now convinced of, this would make a lot of sense. I think Maliketh was only able to defeat Marika as the GEQ because she had already born Melina in secret and sealed half her power within Melina’s eye, causing her spirit to be separated from her body. She then uses the corpse to craft the fingerslayer blade and gives it to the Nox. She tells them essentially “if Maliketh defeats me, go kill Metyr with this.” The Nox only succeed in wounding Metyr. The Greater Will sends the Astels to destroy the Nox’s eternal cities in retribution. See, i think Melina was Marika’s hidden ace in the hole. Burning the Erdtree is a crucial element to Ranni’s ending - which i believe is what Marika ultimately wanted as it’s almost certain Marika helped Ranni with her plot. But importantly, Melina is also Marika’s agent of vengeance if things go wrong, as we see in the Frenzy Flame ending
Idk if its just my poor eyesight - but to back up your point about the statues of Marika in the Land of Shadow, it appears to have both braids still intact, and could definitely therefore be depicting a much younger Marika
There are two main ways I see Marika & the GEQ's relationship going: 1: Melina is the GEQ, and she was born during the early days when Marika was working for the Hornsent. One of the things put into Marika's jar/Crucible was the power of the GEQ, which she either wielded on her own or needed a child who had that power. This also assumes that the Hornsent shoved all the other god/cursed bits they could into Marika, and that her children inheriting them is because they're emerging from within her 2: A rival Empyrean was the GEQ, and Marika had to/chose to consume the others in order to become a full God. This was part of Marika's betrayal, as they would've known one another and suffered similar tortures
@@luminaaemor1293 During Melina's latest life, she was born at the foot of the Erdtree. But it is also implied that she may have lived multiple lives before, and can't remember them. So this theory isn't necessarily impossible. And then there is a moment she says something, I don't remember the exact quote, but the gist is "I remember now. I know what I have to do, and I'm gonna do it because I want to, not because I have to."
I think I like the idea of them being related more than being the same person. Specifically, they could have been twins. Malenia and Miquela are twins and have traits that represent opposite aspects (abundance and decay, represented by eternal youth and scarlet rot), so it would make sense for Marika to have an equal and opposite that represents death. The fiery traits of Melina and Messmer could be attributed to them being born carrying traits from their bloodline that skipped Marika, but not their aunt. They probably started out as allies, before they reached the end of their journey, where only one of them could ascend to godhood.
I think the connection you've made is really good, and I think that a large missing piece of evidence you've neglected looking at hair which can tie this all together is looking at the Lamenter and its connection to all this. The Lamenter is found in a Gaol with other jar people, and a part of its fight involves summoning multiple versions of itself, which is all evidence tying it into the idea that it might be a product of Hornsent being placed in these jars. Using the mask erupts you in black-white fire, much like what you see with use of the Horned Bairn, and attacks from certain Curseblades. The Lamenter is also said to be "blissful" in a twisted sense, much like the celebrants of the Festival
Best theory I've seen about the GEQ so far was that when Marika called the crusade on the Lands of the Tower, she sent Messmer and his army to kill the hornsent and Melina and the Godskin to slay their deities and armed her with the Rune of Death to do so, but when Melina was done she got chosen by her own fingers to be a potential deity herself, so Marika had Maliketh kill her and seal the Rune of Death.
Given that the Godskin greatsword has a spiral appearance, and we know the Hornsent like spirals, I can see the GEQ working together with the Hornsent.
I think the game actually gives us a reason why Malekith defeats the Gloam-Eyed Queen. Iji says this about Blaidd: "The Two Fingers gave Blaidd to Lady Ranni, as a faithful follower. Her very shadow, incapable of treachery. But if Lady Ranni, as an Empyrean, resists being an instrument of the Two Fingers, the shadow will go mad, transforming from a follower into a horrid curse." It's hard to describe Malekith as anything but mad, especially when you're talking to him as Gurranq. Gurranq's dialogue lacks the eloquence that Blaidd's has, suggesting that Malekith has been driven mad. This madness might have been triggered because the Empyrean he shadows resisted being an instrument of the Two Fingers at some point in the past. Maybe Marika, acting as the Gloam-Eyed Queen, resisted the Two Fingers' influence, which drove Malekith to violence. Perhaps the harboring of the Rune of Death was the will of the Two Fingers, not uniquely Marika's decision.
Are we ever told explicitly that Marika was an emperyan? It could be Marika as an emperyan was called the gloam eye queen, then once ascended rebranded.
"Maliketh was a shadowbound beast given to his Empyrean. Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away Destined Death. Even then, she betrayed him." Pretty clear cut.
Hello great video. I got a detail for your. There's actually a third village of Dominula ladies. It's very hidden in Mount Gelmir. Sadly, there's no woman there to welcome the Tarnished anymore, but the village still has some juicy Dominula lore bits :)
Love it!! This potentially fills in a lot of holes that lorehunters have been scouring for for years now. Some questions I'd love to ponder after this: Does this jive with the "The Gloam-eyed Queen is the God that abandoned the Ancient Dragons" theory? Probably not considering the timeline - but who says one or the other is absolute. I personally adore this theory. It's one very strong explanation as to why Marika likely had not one, but two children who bore visions of flame - one of them being possessed of an Abyssal Serpent. While the Godskin Apostles have what appear to be Crucible-esque characteristics, upon closer inspection, most of their animal features are only that of a serpent. Skinny-boy's stretching attack, Big-Boy's serpent tail, etc. Not to mention the Big-boy guarding the shed skin (corpse?) of Eiglay the serpent. I think you're onto something in that Melina and Messmer both may have been elements Marika needed to discard to ascend to Godhood, much like Miquella did. Melina herself didn't seem to have any knowledge of why she existed - as if she just woke up at the foot of the Erdtree one day... Super interesting stuff - thanks for the video!
I swear Miyazaki saw Midsommar in the summer of 2019 and was immediately inspired to come up with the Dominula lore and still had time to get it into the game. The floral motif, the "festival" with dark undertones, the emphasis on femininity and the creepy dancing really remind me of things in that movie - not to mention all of the sinister stuff that takes place.
I saw another video that was intriguing. Marika has 2 sets of twins children with Mohg/Morgott and Miquella/Malenia. Twinship (if that’s a word) usually comes from the Maternal side. That being said it’s entirely possible that Marika and the Gloam-Eyed Queen were twins. The best theory is still that Melina is the Gloam-eyed Queen but it’s possible she inherited that power from her “Aunt” so to speak. There’s also some connection with the GEQ and the Serpent, like we see in the Church of Eiglay. Maybe that explains the he snake skin by Marika’s hometown?
Perhaps she birthed Messmer there, shedding her snake aspect to him. Being a shaman she had all the aspects to shed. Omen, Rot, etc. Her shedding and birthing of Messmer and Melina were the first steps in committing her great sins. One child burning down the order of one world and the other to burn down the next.
I’m so glad to see this theory coming to light more. I’ve thought for a while that Marika was the Gloam-Eyed Queen before she was Queen Marika the Eternal. In the various lore subreddits, however, this is not a welcome theory.
If this theory holds up then the connection Marika has with the Fell God and by extension the serpent god is now concrete proof, I also noticed when you look at the way the arms look at the divine gate you can see that most of them also look like the arms found in the Blade of Blasphemy and all over Rykard's/Serpent's corpse, and it's also this that now shows how the Fell God and the fingers might have come into contact with one another. All that is needed is the connection between the Elden Beast and the dragons in Farum Azula to the Fell God and the GEQ as the Godskin twins are there and after we rekindle the flame of the Giants we are then transported to Farum Azula so there must be a connection there.
It would make sense that Marika is the GEQ. Gloam refers to time of dusk, shadow or night. Maybe she was the shadow lands “queen” and had to become the Marika we know today in order to reach and destroy the Elden Ring. The shadowlands exalted her for what she did there (hence her statues poses) and the lands between punished her because she broke the status quo (her crucified pose) Also, I’m sure someone pointed out - the lands between are above the shadowlands but below what?
Brilliant. Literally the first time I’ve heard this brought up and I think you nailed it. Everything fits. The shed skin, the festival… even going a bit deeper how it parallels with Miquella shedding St Trina .
Very insightful. Ancestral woods has some similarities with dominula, the animals are peacefulbatound them, they use bone weapons rather then forged, they have rats chilling with them , the revere buds and flowers, and they both have areas near them sinking or under water. Dominula is like a more modern version of the same culture, and its a culture older then the erdtree that has to do with rituals, festivals and the stars.
A great video and theory! Finally someone is addressing this. Dominula is the first place that came to my mind when I visited Bonney and Shaman village.
After the Mother of Fingers could no longer receive signals from the Greater Will, she gradually descended into madness. According to the description of the Fingerprint Stone Shield and the Gazing Finger, the persistent slamming of the finger led to the very seeds from which Frenzy first sprouted. However, that is another story. Following their mother’s descent into madness, the Fingers plotted a rebellion, leading to Maliketh’s betrayal and a scenario similar to the one between Ranni and Blaidd. Imagine if Blaidd had successfully hunted down Ranni and sealed her power, turning her into a true slave. Ranni would undoubtedly collapse and give rise to another persona. Similarly, if the same situation had occurred with Marika, the personality of the Gloam-Eyed Queen would dissipate, giving way to the Eternal Queen Marika. Dissolving a personality entirely is extremely difficult. First, the flames and the power of the serpent that were split off led to the births of Messmer and Melina. Later, Marika calling upon Numen members, used the Fingerslayer Blade to harm the Mother of Fingers, causing a malfunction. The Fingers then rose up in rebellion and incited the Black Blades, defeating her and sealing the Death Rune. In the DLC trailer, we see Marika extracting the golden threads from the Relic of the Godskin Apostle. After raising the threads and using Radagon and Marika’s lord and empyrean rights to qualify for crossing the Divine Gate, golden birth occurs, and death is utterly sealed.
I think the Gloam Eyed Queen is Melina, who is the divested part of Marika. She wiped Melina's mind so that she would meet the tarnished and lead them to kill her. If we follow the Frenzied Flame ending, Marika's divested portion (Melina) would then have her memories restored, recalling that she is the GEQ and sending her after us since she was likely meant to die, sacrificing herself and killing herself to save the world, destroy death and put everything back into order from before the Greater Will came into power which would save the world from the cycle that had been put forth since the GW appeared in their world. I'd go as far to say that Marika was always the hero of the world, destined to sacrifice herself and loved ones for the greater good of all life, leaving her friends and loved ones behind, but recognizing this was the only way she could save the world.
I think there's something that contradicts this due to the DLC, but I am also not entirely certain about it. When you kill Miquella, Trina dies. Implying even though divested, she was able to live as long as Miquella was also alive. And when he dies, so does she. When you become the Lord of Frenzy, I think it is implied that you burn Marika to nothing along with pretty much everything nearby. This clearly let's Melina loose from... whatever it is she was restricted by, and hints that she might be the GEQ, but it suggests to me that Melina is not a divested part of Marika as she would die when Marika does. And yet, she is still there. Now, maybe Marika hasn't been killed in that ending, it isn't exactly clear, but it definitely seems like it as she crumbles to nothing before the entire tree and sky lights up in flame. I think Melina is simply Marika's daughter as is suggested by some of the text related to Messmer having a sister with visions of flame. I also think even attempting to call Marika a hero, let alone THE hero of the world is pretty far off. There's a lot of grey morality in this game, but Marika shows herself to be a selfish, genocidal tyrant. She has a sympathetic backstory, but that doesn't really square with the rest of her entire life of conquering, subjugating, and destroying anything that didn't fit into her idea of order. I think it is probably true that Marika is the one guiding you by grace, and not the greater will, but I don't see that as some grand plan to remove the Greater Will. The Greater Will has already left the lands between as made clear by the lore behind Metyr. It strikes me more that she is hoping you kill her as an act of suicide on her part because after all of her efforts to right the atrocities she faced at the hands of the Hornsent, it was all for naught. Her age of plenty faded, and when Godwyn was killed, she shattered the ring in grief. I think even the way you phrased it proves her lack of heroism, "destined to sacrifice herself and loved ones for the greater good of all life" -- sacrificing someone else is not an act of heroism. It is an act of a psychopath.
Another interesting layer is Radagon's involvement and purpose as a character in the lore. Bear with me here as these thoughts aren't quite fully formed, but what always perplexed me is the Knights of the Cuckoo and why they're called as such. Elden Ring has many instances where there are characters and relationships that are part-analogous to others elsewhere or for lack of a better term, mirror each other. "Cuckoo" always struck a chord with me as the naming for these Knights, as Cuckoo's are parasites, birds that would infiltrate the nests of other birds lay their eggs inside and have those birds raise their offspring, which to me, was mighty similar to what Radagon did to Renalla. Perhaps the Cuckoo Knights were aptly named, secretly employed by Radagon to finish off what he began, destroying Caria from within' after he was prematurely called back to the Capitol to become Elden Lord? With that in mind, was this the first time Radagon was employed in this regard? Could he have been sent to seduce other enemies in Marika's midst and bare children that would then go back to be reabsorbed into Marika's court? Are Messmer and Melina children of the GEQ and Radagon, only to have the GEQ betrayed and defeated/murdered and her children stolen to be raised under the Erdtree?
Midras Manse and the Temple of the Bud with Romina are also flower heavy. I think the flower thing is less of a connection to each other and more an indicator of something else. Life? Divinity?
What I find interesting is the androgynous nature of the grandmother who seems to have no breasts, as well as Marika in the dlc trailer. Perhaps the shaman themselves were a race of beings that had merged male and female together into the alchemical Rebis, and thus were sought by the hornsent for this very ability. The ability to merge the flesh (and spirit?) of two into a singular whole.
Marika had beasts. Her back was turned and you can see the swell of them from the that selective angle. It’s a trailer. They aren’t going to show her breasts even if it’s rated MA. I believe she’s without her signature tunic because it’s meant to be before she ascended.
The thing is, Godfrey is able to graft like Shamans can. That is the whole gimmick of his Golden Lineage. I think the Highlanders (the group who Godfrey comes from, and who are probably the guys who are involved with bear communion stuff in the DLC) can graft as well and are just the male 'brother' tribe to the shaman. The women stayed in the tribe in their villages and the men had their own stuff going on seperate from the women. Women stayed in the villages and the men were nomadic.
I followed a similar idea, not that Marika IS the gloom eyed queen, but possibly her consort; Hence the betrayal. I believe there’s a connection between the hornsent collecting the flesh of shamans, with the godskins collecting the flesh of gods.
I think you're right. The background circular symbols on Marika's statue look like an infinity symbol, but now I think it might be a reference to the ouroboros or a snake eating its own tail. That ties so much together!
What a timely video. I was just defending Melina's status as the kindling maiden online. Honestly this is the best articulation of this theory I've heard so far. Great stuff.
I would argue that Marika was the succesful product of the Hornsent's jar rituals on the Shaman. And I believe that this ritual is what made her an "Emperyean", and that it allowed her to join the Hornsent at one point, allowing her to "seduce" and "betray" them at one point. I mean it even fits her theme of merging with Radagon or otherwise.
That, or another theory is that the skin in Bonny village and snake-like markings on the top of jars indicate that the jarring process was an imitation of the primordial vessel I.e., the snake- which the amnion tells us creates life through a repellent birthing ritual. Perhaps the Hornsent were not trying to create Marika but imitate the creation of Marika themselves, not unlike what we see the Nox trying to accomplish. I'm still digging into this but my first suspicion came from seeing the Bonny skin, and very close by a petrified woman/deity like the Grandmother. Seems like the Hornsent were trying to recreate this process, maybe to make the tutlary deities? And it would make the Dominula Village festival make sense - the items mention a young maiden being the centre of the festival, and this would have been Marika who maybe was intended to become a petrified deity, but instead enacted her plan when the Hornsent ravaged her people. She stole their power and created a giant Erdtree instead of the little grandma tree in the village.... and Marika even ends up petrified like at the end. Not unlike a jar or vessel.
Maybe there’s a link between Dominula windmill village and being able to summon Millicent here, since she’s possibly Marika’s or the Gloam Eyed Queen’s granddaughter
One thing that may absolutely be wrong, but I think the face of the mother of the fingers really looks like the gloamed eyed queen symbol when casting her spells
Id like to note that the description of the golden braid, a new tailsman, states “A braid of hair, cut loose. Queen Marikas offering to the grandmother- What was her prayer? Her confession? There is no one left answer, and Marika never returned home again” I’d like to believe that Marikas wish was to separate from the gloam eyed queen, and her confession being that the gloam eyed queen is part of her own flesh.
Waitttt I think you're onto something omg I never noticed these details!!! My own theory not related to this is that our character the tarnished is a child of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, and perhaps all of the headless demigods in the mausoleums are all children of GEQ as well. I mean think about it, why does Melina seek us out of all Tarnished? Why do we have the ability to slay gods and obtain their powers? We are essentially a Godskin without the whole skinning bit.
It's mentioned that Enir-Ilim was a tower built "to reach the gods". You know who would want to reach the gods? Someone intending to go on a god hunt. We see the divine gate at the pinnacle of Enir-Ilim in the story trailer, constructed of viscera, blood, and corpses. A closer look at the tower in-game reveals that the entire structure was constructed in very much the same way. Imagine it back then. A towering structure tall enough to be seen from every corner of the lands between, glistening with blood, gore, and corpses. A tower of death. Building a structure like that, in that fashion, would require supernatural powers and perhaps control over death itself. The only person I can think of who would be capable of this is an entity who had control over the Elden Ring BEFORE Marika. The Gloam-Eyed Queen. Marika eventually ordered Messmer to purge the hornsent, and the land mass at the center of the lands between was magically veiled and separated from the physical plane. Marika so thoroughly erased the history of the hornsent and the shadow lands that no one even remembers they ever existed in the first place. Completely purged from history as punishment for what they did to the Shaman. What if this is exactly how the hornsent felt about the GEQ. The hornsent worship the crucible, the embodiment of life itself, blended together in all its forms. Their jarsaint rituals were in imitation of the crucible, a blending of life. The GEQ seems like the exact opposite of what the hornsent worship about the crucible. Now imagine how they would feel if their dead were used as sacrifices to build a massive tower to invade the realm of the gods, perhaps the very domain of the crucible itself, and hunt them down. I think something so blasphemous would make them want to purge her existence from history and repurpose her tower as a holy structure linked to the crucible. I think perhaps her godskin children would be chased from that land, carrying with them the only relics that prove she ever existed at all. Messmer is red of hair, and his music/theme shares a leitmotif with Radagon's theme. I believe "the seduction and betrayal" referenced in the trailer was Marika taking on the form of Radagon to seduce the GEQ. The GEQ would go on to bear two children, one inheriting the aspects of the base serpent, and the other, her blackflame of destined death. I believe after they were born, when the time was right, Marika used Maliketh (who likely got his name "death of the gods" from joining the GEQ's godhunts) to betray her, slaying the GEQ and then laying claim to the Elden Ring before the divine gate, entryway to the realm of the gods, to become a god herself. She then plucked out the eyes of Melina and Messmer and sealed them with her grace, such that the aspects of the GEQ, the base serpent and blackflame, could never be used against her. Radagon is the father. And as you know, Radagon is Marika.
The GEC as a facet of Marika is something I considered before the DLC, and now we know about jar saints, I think it is a very strong hypothesis. Thanks for laying it all out, I knew there was deeper connections to the shaman village somewhere and stupid me forgot about Dominula
What a bombshell. I think you’re onto something. I never even knew that spell from Dominula existed. I wonder if there are any other links regarding the Blessed bone shards? Also how close is Bonny Village to Dominula on the overlaid map?
@@ZayftheScholar Mate don't matter. People forget a lot of this lore stuff is speculative anyway 🤣. Fantastic video. Would have never made this connection to Sharmin village.
This is the first Gloam Eyed Queen theory that makes sense to me. If Maliketh is a baleful shadow like Blaidd then it makes sense that he would go after the side of Marika that rebelled against the fingers. If Radagon is the part of Marika that is loyal to the Golden Order then it makes sense that the Gloam Eyed Queen is the side of Marika that wants to break free of the Golden Order and the fingers.
Damn, this tied with the thoughts surrounding the gloam eyed queen being the corpse snake thing in the teaser trailer for the DLC fit really well together. I'm leaning with this one more than the other one now as it has more in-game lore connections, but this is sweet.
I think a possibility is that the Gloam Eye Queen is Marika's mother. Marika and Radagon children of the Gloam Eye Queen. Marika was seduced by Metyr (Gnostic demiurge) and betrayed her Mother by fusing with Radagon and using the Gate of Divinity. Marika and Radagon are Gnostic Eve and Adam. Shaman Village is Garden of Eden, the Tree is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The statue in the tree is the original sin, forbidden arts of souls transfer. Same arts we see with the Nox. But, that magic is the "forbidden fruit" to be like the Gods and live forever. Really enjoyed your theory!
As far as the floral themes go, there's one more location that might actually help tie the two together, Jarburg. Given its mostly utility flowers the player can actually harvest, but they're there because the jars cultivated them. They're even searching for their potentate, assumedly like the ones roaming Bonny Village.
I obsessed over Dominula when lore hunting on DLC day one and came to the same conclusion. The blue cape and black flame symbol also looks like Metyr and makes me think that Metyr picked Marika but was later betrayed and left abandoned in the Shadowlands, when Marika divested death and the GEQ. The GEQ is so random otherwise and we know of one Queen wearing black who is strongly tied to motherhood, being a chosen empyrean, etc. We also know there used to be more gods that are gone now in Marika's rule. She is even said to have dropped the fell god herself. Sounds like something that someone witb access to the black flame could accomplish. And witb her own order secured, Marika sealed the two things that she used to rise to power, the gate and destined death.
This is probably the best explanation of the Marika = GEQ theory I've seen, well done. Consider me a new convert. I still think that thing Marika's taking the gold out of in the story trailer is Metyr's face (and singular eye). Even still, with the possible connection between Metyr and the Godskins, that doesn't entirely discredit what you're saying.
4:28 It sounds wrong that Marika would do that. I think it is more likely that Maliketh was acting on orders from Radagon instead of Marika , Radagon wanted to mend the Elden Ring while Marika wanted to destroy the elden ring , therefore kill the Elden Beast ,a God , a godslayer's greatsword was more than capable of doing so. Maliketh stopped Marika from killing the Elden beast and Radagon succeeded in starting his golden order. And most likely it was then when the Rune of Death was confined and the Gloam eyed queen , was defeated and "made" into the Rune of Death , just like Godwyn was by Fia into the Mending Rune of the Duskborn. Of course this is my speculation for that part
Now this is a very interesting possibility as well! We really need to talk more about Radagon's role in all of this. He is literally titled "Of the Golden Order" and Marika's incantation from the DLC specifically says that its an incantation of Kindness WITHOUT Order. And like you said, Radagon literally tries to uphold the Order while Marika tries to tear it down. It does make me wonder if a lot of the stuff attributed to Marika was actually Radagon's doing. Afterall, almost every bit of info we get about Marika from the base game revolves around her either plotting to have a God Killed, telling her kids they will be sacrifices, sending tarnished away to get stronger and then come back, and literally shattering the ring. Marika's Pose is literally crucified on Radagon's Golden Order Totality Pose. Perhaps Radagon is true "villain" in this story.
That's right! In St.Trina's own words to the Tarnished , "Godhood would be Miquella's prison. A caged divinity is beyond saving" I think that Marika was essentially caged in her own body, maybe that's why in a desperate attempt to be free of radagon she shattered the Elden Ring even if it meant to be her downfall.Perhaps that's why St.Trina came to that conclusion about Miquella aswell.
Great video, but I can’t help but imagine the celebrants of windmill village skinning people for the sake of the Godskin. There is a Godskin apostle standing atop their town, looking down upon them all, but the strange festival details and designs choices seems to evoke something deeper, like you say in your video.
you argumented for this theory much better than centered tarnished, I think this holds a bigger impact on the theory much more than a damn shed skin on a village pointing at a shed. Dominula is clearly a reference to shaman village, and that makes it telling that the flaying of skin was indeed something tied to the culture there. Now we may never know what the hell is going on with that little bit of skin, but the strands of gold marika pulls out are clear. We've seen MIquella try to shed and accept all the sins of the erdtree by doing very similar things to what marika did to ascend, Perhaps even divesting herself of a part of her. Radagon clearly came after the whole fact and became a devout follower of the golden order. Marika guides us the whole game through the guidance of grace. The roundtable hold is clearly her inside world or something near to a pocket dimension of the erdtree. I think when godlike beings such as marika appear in stories I enjoy the most when we see them in some shape or form, perhaps not to tell how all the pieces fall into place as that doesnt incentive discussion, but I'm quite fond with how ff14 handled that kind of myth and fable eventually turning into a figure.
The divine beast hunt, being a hunt of the gods of the hornsent.. and it just so happens that we already learned of another God hunt, under the disciples of the gloat eyed queen.. isn’t it interesting we never see Queen Marika’s eyes
Amazing video! A lot of points I hadn't thought of. The Dominula connection is very interesting. One thing I haven't been ablet o get over that I bring up in a video of my own about Melina, is that if the GEQ, Godskins and Godhunt happened in the land of shadow, why isn't their any relics of this? My thought was that the GEQ would have had to have been after Marika sealed away the Shadow Realm for there to be no remnants.
Well, maybe that's what Ascending through the gate really was. She went up the tower of babel (belurat) to reach the heavens. Once she made it into heaven (the lands between) the God Hunt could truly begin. Hence all the godskins and darkflame being only in TLB. And perhaps it wasn't all malicious as it was just about vengeance. Trying to kill The Greater Will itself for allowing her people to suffer as they did. Who knows if any of us are right though 😂
@@FartsHaveATaste First off, what a username lol. Both foul and hilarious. As you say, the GEQ is an incredibly difficult topic to talk about, I've done my own theories but truthfully, it seems as though there is evidence to dispute anyone being the GEQ, so it likely is a situation of believing your own head canon because we will never know for sure.
Okay yeah you cooked here brother, I buy this theory almost entirely. I have been wracking my brain for two months trying to figure out The Seduction. Excellent stuff.
I said this for years and I’ve been called a madman for eons. I’m so glad that someone in a way of media can provide this evidence in a way. I haven’t been able to. Keep up the good work keep digging deeper. There are more secrets to find.
I actually had a chat with Timdiggety, in the comment section of his 'Q&A | Passing Time Before Elden Ring DLC' video, right around the time the DLC was released. I think you should give it a read. All because I made a comment about his character name :) The TLDR; The GEQ basically represents the concept of Nyx, the night mother who dwells in the unconscious, but also the aspect of Marika's self that doesn't know how to overcome the traumatic event she experienced. The shadow and the Ego. As above, so below. It's actually quite a common theme in video games. In timdiggity's comment section, we actually discuss Final Fantasy 7 a fair bit, but games like Silent Hill, Genshin Impact, Final Fantasy (7, 9 and 10), Persona (3 is basically Elden Ring's core story and 5R explains what Miquella's goal is), Majora's Mask, Shin Megami Tensei (3 (even contains the same different endings as Elden Ring) and 5) follow the exact same blueprint, just to name a few.
Hear me out....
*What If : The Festival is meant to end with a death... but there is no longer death, so they dance maddeningly endlessly*
now that could be possible but what if shaman village was connected-- a link between the two villages. Like the houses in both are very similar. before marika sealed away the realm of shadow.
Dude I think your really on to something, the windmill village and it's people I believe is strongly inspired by Scandinavian history and folklore, specifically midsummer (hence the flowercrowns), blond/white braids and their clothing resembles Scandinavian, specifically swedish folk attire.
Might be related to "hårgalåten" written in 1795 one of the most famous swedish folksongs which is about the devil in disguise playing his violin, forcing a village festival to dance onto a hill and dance untill they all die. And it even works in the sense that the snake is often closely related to the devil in the bible. Not to mention that when sweden became a Christian, they allowed many old traditions to still take place (the golden order tolerating the ancient festival)
Rough translation on some of the verses:
The fiddler grabbed his fiddle from the case, and lifted his bow to the dawning of the sunny sunday,
Then the people of Harga came with haste, they forgot about the whole world and god.
The dance went on to meadows and hills, high ontop of the Harga ridge.
Shoes and soles torn, the dance would never be stopped.
Cease your bow before you dance life and soul, and all of their bones out of their body.
No he won't stop untill we are all dead.
(The verses vary a bit like with many folksongs, I skipped some bits that wasn't really relevant to the elden ring connection)
Really cool you drew that connection, hope this info lends more legitimacy to your theory.
@@TCarterWilson-xm9hi if you believe the Lands of Shadow is lifted from the main map (caelid to leyndell gap in the map) theory, the Shaman Village and Leyndell is all roughly connected. The windmill would have overlooked Gaius boss arena / shaman land
@tomRstincts absolutely! Marika always gave me Nordic / Midsommar vibes with the introduction of Shamans and the godskin conmection to Marikas ascension and a 'Serpent god' motiff that exists on both Marika and Godskins. Ties the godskin acolyte, dancing women and dominulas flowers to Shaman village
@@concretephill8509yes, she even choose a husband who in many ways represent the Aesir faith, godfrey. It's clearly paralleled to him being seen as barbaric with his endless hunger for war and combat. And that being frowned upon forcing him to change his name and have his beast shoulder his rage in order to act more civil.
It's even paralleled in that even though he was considered barbaric, one might wonder if Marika was even more barbaric in actions than godfrey ever was.
In many ways same could be said for christianity being seen as a more civil religion than the now pretty much dead Aesir faith. Yet alot of war has happened under christianity. (don't mean to attack christians with this)
Meanwhile, under the Aesir faith women had more rights than anywhere else in the world, largely due to the men being scanagers, looters and pilligers. Further paralleling to Marikas and godfreys relation.
This is an old write-up now, with some recent updates from the DLC.
Marika is the Gloam/Dusk-Eyed Queen.
- There's a red and black spike of death impaling Marika and keeping her in place when we find her at the end. Only Maliketh wields this power, and only he could even defeat a God like Marika. But he's so loyal to her, why would he?
- Maliketh "defeated" the Gloam/Dusk-Eyed Queen. We know Shadowbound hounds have to attack their former master if The Fingers feel like the Empyrean is acting against them. We play through this reality with Ranni's quest, and both she and Iji know Blaidd will go mad as she enacts her vision. How do they know this happens? They saw/heard of it happening to Maliketh and Marika already.
- 7 seemingly Grace-tinged faces adorn the aprons of the Godskin Nobles. There are 7 Walking Masoleums in the game. A ghostly NPC mentions in a prayer to Queen Marika that a local one contains "your unwanted child..." within. The corpses we find within are seemingly skinned.
- Only Marika would be able to guide Ranni to the location of the Rune of Death and how to use it for it to be stolen in the first place to forge the Black Knives. Remember, "Marika... is this what it is to sin?" "Why gull me..." Marika, after all, had only one use for Maliketh in the end, after the other work was done... a vessel to seal away Destined Death. And even then, she betrayed him.
- The Beast Eye is a purple, scratched up eye. It's Marika's eye from being defeated and imprisoned by her Shadowbound. No other Queen or Empyrean is "defeated" but not slain, as the text implies there except Marika. And who but her purpose-made hound could even stop her, a God? The one entity empowered enough by the Ring/Fingers to be able to do so should the need arise.
- Dominula Village is much like the Hinterlands and the Shaman Village. We find a skinning ritual and a Godskin Apostle there in Dominula. We learn that the "festival" is old and tacitly accepted by the Golden Order. The aesthetic of these villages is much the same, and they're intimately tied to Marika herself.
- Gideon gives us a boon in the form of a secret rite known only to him, Black Flame Protection. He is alleged to have peered into the will of Queen Marika and shuddered at the end that should not be.
- The Scadutree is of a dual nature. So is Queen Marika. When Gold arose, so too was Shadow born. Gold and Shadow exist as necessary contrasts to each other, yet in a God, in Marika, this duality exists in coalesce, or it did once.
- No other characters are named as Queen or Empyrean that aren't already accounted for/ruled out to be the GEQ, and by that I mean Melina, she was given purpose by her mother at the foot of the Erdtree and that means she is a daughter of Marika, not old enough to be the GEQ but possesses traits of both Marika and Radagon. Eye color and hair color are passed down traits we see in game. Well, sure enough, Melina shows us a purple/gloamy eye in one ending. Inherited trait from her mother, the Queen in Black. Marika's eyes are never shown to us to judge their color.
- Duskborn ending sees Godwyn rise to ascendancy and sees Death restored, with him as the Prince of Death itself. These titles aren't meaningless. Duskborn? The "Prince" of Death? Well, who would the Queen be? If Godwyn is Duskborn, and if he is a Prince, his mother would, of course, be associated with "Dusk" and be a Queen. And we know his mother is Queen Marika.
- Godwyn is referred to as the "Prince of Gold" in an item description. If a Prince of Death could have been a Prince of Gold, why couldn't his mother hold this potential as well, even necessarily so? We see from the Death Knights that Gold and Death can somehow synergize even still... Gold and Shadow, born at the same time, same as it ever was.
- Fia is hooded with a black cloak and comes from some other land. She also helps create Godwyn's Duskborn ending and is Death-aligned. We see Marika wearing black hooded garb in a statue where she also is holding the twins Miquella and Malenia. Her tattered clothing as we find her at the end is also black. She is also associated with the Nox/Numen race and the Black Knife Assassins that come from there as well.
- Statues of Marika in her crucified pose all show her with a flowing black cloth that wraps behind her in almost the exact same shape as the Godslayer Greatsword, which was the weapon or ritual sword of the GEQ/DEQ. You have to pivot the camera a bit to get a good view, but the shape is very similar. Coiled and then open, with one flap slightly longer than the other, same tip design on the Godslayer Greatsword. It's possible that she was propped up by the Hornsent culture and then part of the betrayal was killing other Gods in their pantheon, but what's maybe more possible is as Centered Tarnished pointed out, that Marika culled some other of her "unwanted" children after learning the truth of the broken Fingers and flawed foundations of her Order.
- Hewg prays to Queen Marika about his given task to craft a Godslaying weapon. Very interesting and specific task. Marika wants a God slain. He mentions "the sheer terror of Her..." regarding Marika. Godskins certainly take an interest in killing a God. Who was their leader? A "defeated" Queen who was once an Empyrean. Marika.
- Raging Wolf Vargram is a would-be Shadow. Wolf imagery is on his armor. He wields the Godslayer Greatsword. The weapon art is "The Queen's Black Flame", of course. A statue of Marika exists in Farum Azula, depicting her with three wolves.
- Marika learned the secrets of the Golden Order and realized her children would "amount only to sacrifices" as she instructed them. She knew the Erdtree was a soul parasite, and by sealing Death away, she weakened the Erdtree over time. She also had Godwyn buried at the roots of it, knowing that he would grow and overtake them, choking the Erdtree further. As he was, Godwyn was an "unwanted" child since he embodied the Golden Order, and she was a prisoner to it. He would end up much like Miquella would, a caged divinity of some kind. She was likely opposed to the Erdtree and Greater Will/Fingers for a long time, weaving plots in secret until the Shattering. She realized, only too late, that ultimate power has a way of becoming a curse when the truth of the nature of it all is finally revealed.
Just as Marika shined so brightly with her Golden Order, another aspect of her was as deep as the abyss and as dark as any shadow.
Woah dude, this is incredible. Just read the whole thing. I can't find anything that seems out of place.
Great write-up, thanks for this. I've always wondered about the fingerslayer blade though and who's corpse it comes from. One of the Marika/GEQ plots against the Greater Will from before perhaps?
That wasn't Blaidd that attacked us. It was an assassin that looked like him
@@thesithofearth3617 it is blaidd, if you paid attention you're literally told blaidd is a baleful shadow which are the assassin's of the two fingers and that if ranni does anything that goes against the greater will and the fingers then blaidd is to put a stop to it by attacking ranni, much like maliketh to marika, and when you near the end of rannis questline the NPC that invades is literally named baleful shadow and looks like blaidd, it's not just some random assassin
There is also the interesting fact that Marika, being an obvious stand in for Odin would be associated with death as Odin is a god of the dead and death among his other titles.
I wonder if the "God Hunt" was Marika capturing Gods so she could put them in her children to contain them, and when she was done, she cast aside the Gloam Eyed Queen to protect herself and her children from death ultimately keeping the gods inside them imprisoned.
I don't know, a little unhinged speculation.
One thing to consider is that the GEQ could be a different person/entity and we're looking at basically a piece of Marika's plan that was casted aside once their use was done. Marika has shown to have such a mindset considering Godfrey's departure. Another thing to consider is that GEQ could be Melina. Evidence of this most surmountable within the Frenzied Flame Ending and connecting the now revealed Violet like Iris of Melina to that of the Beast Eye given by Maliketh. I can further elaborate or provide details. What's most interesting is that Melina and Messmer are also most likely connected and this would also establish the clear connection of Marika's theme abandoning children. Messmer's use was completed upon Marika achieving her Godhood and casting aside the Land of Shadow. A similar idea would explain Melina's eventual removal as well with her use done as well. Mind you the connection between Melina and Messmer is best well established by Messmer's Kindling which states, "Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire." There is no other entity in the game this would have as close of a connection to than Melina. The only other entity we know of that is utilized so similar to Messmer in the sense both are used as Kindling to burn a tree. This again then goes back into Melina being Marika's daughter as referenced by her dialogue and the fact she has a butterfly (Smouldering Butterfly) which all children of Marika has (Miquella, Malenia, Melina, and Messmer). Basically, I'm not saying who you stated is far off but also to consider the facts that push that Melina is GEQ and consider that in the scope of what you've stated. Is it so far fetched that Marika would cast aside only Messmer? When Melina possibly with the power of Black Flame would most likely also be casted aside once her purpose was fulfilled in her grand scheme. I am not an advocate of such thoughts but I do want to propose the idea of GEQ being Melina. I can supply more "evidence" but mostly the Frenzied Flame ending and Beast Eye are our biggest lore facts.
this theory feels very Warhammer 40K with Big E in that setting shoving minor warp gods into specialty bodies to create demigod Primarchs, one of whom has semi split personality due to having two gods not one.
Would explain why Malenia becomes a goddess, Miquella tries to, Ranni does, and the rest focus on their own strengths. If this is true though, my boy Godrick got no gods no hows
@merleetomlin6218 she's thinking like a jar. I'll just Pickle all my problems away- Marika definitely
Collecting them inside herself more likely
Anyone else just consider that the gate of divinity could've been red because of it being made of FLAYED bodies?
It's made out of the body of the slain hornsent
I thought it was made of the body of shamans since they stuck together easily
They do, and we get the saints from them. The flayed hornsent were nowhere near so coherent a form as the gates, which almost looked like they were filled with bodies similar to the furnace golem
If you hit the gate with your sword still bleeds. In the trailer we see it as red, because it was activated somehow...
It isn't red anymore because it is decayed meat and blood.
Another flower based area that sprang to mind was jarburg, which of course would relate to shaman village in other interesting ways
I’m also curious about the ruins of Unte, very similar flowers surrounding building when you move the furnace golem
The area outside Midra's Manse is also shown to be similarily covered in flowers.
Very very true
And by that it means the whole shibang is still going on, the “Poachers”
@@NorthernDruid thats cuz midra is marikas father
I saw someone point out that in the story trailer, Marika is topless as though she just transformed back from Radagon. The theory was that Marika disguised as Radagon seduced and betrayed the Gloam-Eyed Queen, from which Messmer and Melina were born. Marika then raised them as her own. Makes sense to me since Messmer has red hair and his fight theme contains part of Radagon's.
Yeah, this makes the most sense to me, fits all that is happening in the story trailer. I think this mixed with the insights about Dominula make it likely that GEQ was her twin sister or something at shaman village, or even from wherever the numen came from. Cut content, the putrescent knight is the gloam eyed knight or something.
@@johncrondis4563 I do think GEQ was at least another shaman or maybe a Nox from how she features in the Dominula lore, and similar enough to Marika that they could be obfuscated into the same entity. My favorite theory is that GEQ was the shaman/Nox's real Empyrean whom Marika usurped then incorporated into her own lore to legitimize her rule. It would explain all the convenient yet conflicting evidence suggesting that Marika is GEQ, as well as Ymir's statement that Metyr had been malfunctioning since the time of Marika's ascension.
This is a really interesting idea. I’ve really bought in to the “Marika used to be the GEQ” theory because of how it can logically (tho not definitively) explain the whole story. BUT, this idea could probably also work and tell another very cool story. It’s such a shame we got so little detail about the GEQ in the DLC.
@@johncrondis4563 so if this is the case, the lump of meat Marika pulls the gold thread from is the remains of the GEQ, correct? Which would mean that she had just been defeated by Maliketh and the GEQ’s power was the last thing she needed to ascend to godhood? Or am i missing something?
@@autumnrain249 i knew there was something bothering me about this theory: Messmer is a demigod. We know that because when we defeat him, we get the “demigod felled” message. This would mean that Messmer had to have been born of Marika when she was already a god. So whether she did seduce the GEQ as Radagon - which i still think is an interesting and maybe possible idea btw - or not, Messmer and Melina are definitely Marika’s kids, and they were definitely born after Mohg, Morgott, and Godwyn as Godrick’s great rune definitively states that the golden lineage were the first demigods.
Ok f it, Patches was the gloam-eyed queen.
Kicked me off a cliff numerous times and I ain't died yet.
Duh, the power of death was sealed.
Nah, patches is an outer god. The most powerful outer god. That's why he's in so many fromsoft games. He's a god of chaos (not the frenzied flame type chaos), so he enjoys trolling and fun
Torrent is the gloam eyed queen at his point lmfao
@@thesithofearth3617That’s actually pretty accurate. In DS3 when he lowers the walkway on us lol
Marika has a back braid in her statues.
Right braid, back braid, and cut left braid.
Same as Dominula Celebrants.
Yeah, I was pretty sure Marika had a fairly prominent back braid in every depiction of her, was really confused when he said she didn't
The main flaw in the videos argumentation I'd like to point out, is the assumption that Marika sanctioned the current iteration of the festival at Dominula.
It's just as, if not more, likely that the current affairs there arose after the Shattering.
Interesting food for thought, I always got and made the impression that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was a rival empyrean to Marika, and perhaps someone she usurped or defended the Erdtree from.
I expect as the lore community uncovers more about the full nature of the Crucible we'll also get closer to estimating the role of the Gloam-Eyed Queen.
A few other tells: the assasins of the round table hold, in particular the confessor assassin Crepus whose name derives from crepuscular: the dim hours of twilight (gloam) and dawn. The formless serpent deadly poison assassins. The scorpion rot blade and other items carried by confessor Rileigh. The shield of the guilty, and Marika's own children who were born from gloam as much as from gold. Miquella and Trina, a weaker version of their mother - Trina being sleep instead of death. The colors are deeply significant and follow the wheel: Marika by day, but at night she is GEQ. It was always there.
This is brilliant. Im SO glad this theory is finally getting the love it deserves. Some of us have been speculating this for years now!
I don't see the connection
if only we can see her eyes, and they are heterochromia, golden & gloam.
Imagine definitive evidence like this, From will never deliver.
Great theory!
I also love the idea of the Gloam-eyed Queen being one of Marikas siblings - a rival empyrean as you said. People speculate Messmer & Melina are children of the GEQ and that Marika took them after defeating her early on, Just to use and discard them as needed. I do wish we got more information about Melina in the DLC 😢
imo, she was the half of marika, separated from her once she ascended as god, and who tried to stop her for the same reason st. trina wanted to kill miquella. its her mortal side, the one still connected to the shamans, the fingers, her humanity, still connected to the world pre-erdtree. some sort of fragment of herself before becoming a god.the geq realized a world without death was unnatural and tried to stop her other half marika, but eventually was defeated. my other theory is that the geq was the grandmother herself, and her prayer was more or less a prayer for forgiveness.
@@MitridatedCarbonThe "statue" of the grandmother in the Shaman village is actually her real body. If you notice, the hair is real.
@@uncleol that's actually interesting cause it means shamans don't rot like normal people, considering her face is intact. They just petrify
@@asddsa9468 yeah I'm starting to feel Radagon emerged afterwards from Marika's desire for order. Hence him wanting to be complete and perfect.
@@MitridatedCarbonthat’s a lot of confirmation bias your indulging in there
I realized I only visually referenced it, but it's pretty interesting that the Black Flame incantations look a lot like the marks on the finger ruins. It's also pretty interesting that the Dominula Celebrants in the yellow Erdtree capes are referred to in-game as "Gardeners" while the blue Godskin cape wearers are "harvesters" which seems to reference life and death.
isn't the general consensus that those finger print marks are simply the face of Metyr?
Many people have said that, yup! I don't think that means it can't be similar to the Gloam-Eyed Queen though? At least I can't see a reason to assume those are mutually exclusive possibilities.
Look at the Gloam Eyed Queen's Greatsword and the Carian Royal Scepter together
Wait, I never noticed there was 2 different colors for their capes and look closely at both finger ruins, one has blue specks all over it, and then the one near Shaman village has yellow/golden specks all over.
Please make video on Melina. There is zero analysis from high quality and respectable creators. She's the main character besides us who put EVERYTHING into motion and succeeded. She's archetypal "Wizard" similar to Gandalf. Manipulative and influential person guiding everything from behind. I beg you! (I also think she might be the Queen and I'd love to hear more arguments against it) I'll buy you lot of coffees I promise on my life. Thanks for everything 🥹❤️
The tail of godskin duo looks like the tail of lampreys in the finger ruins
nice catch, dude !
yes, that smooth almost oily sheen
Thats probably just because they were lazy to make a different character model😂
I thought they were just lizard men under the robes. The way they stretch etc is the same as the ones as volcano manor.
Not true lampreys have small fin and lack scales while godskn dont have fins and do have sake scales
im really glad elden ring content creators are finally getting around to this angle. I really think, more than any other radical re-interpretation theory, this most perfectly explains Marika's inscrutable motivations and relations with Maliketh, Melina, Dominula, snakes, etc.
The only other Empyrean shadow reflects his partner, he's granted a cold-infused sword even though he doesn't personally like the cold because Ranni is an empyrean connected to the cold dark moon. Marika's shadow is named Death of the Demigods. He's in all-black armor and wields a sword infused with Death. It just makes sense to me that he's actually the Gloam-Eyed Queen's shadow, and that she went against the intent of her Fingers, causing Maliketh to turn baleful, attack her directly, and bring her to heel. This is why Marika is so bitter towards him and why her only use of him was to seal away Death for later so it could be stolen away and used again. It just makes sense.
Similarly, this really cleans up her whole plot with Hewg about forging a weapon to kill a god (her body, which is enslaved by the Elden Beast). She's aware that "godhood is a prison" as was made explicit in the DLC, and didn't want to be a part of the system, being so prideful she thought she could forge her way into it without being obedient to outside forces. She was forced into it, though, so she had a millenias-long plot to escape.
The Melina thing is easily explained by using Millicent and her sisters as an analogy. She's a separate self, a bunshin/wakemi, an "offshoot" of Marika. A daughter but of a single parent, not even in the Marika/Radagon sense but literally just Marika.
this would imply that radagon may have been the deity to be put into marika, much like radahn was put into mohg.
Everything you said just makes so much sense. Hell, we've been searching for answers about this mysterious GEQ since Elden Ring's release and the answers have been right there in front of us the entire time. We just needed to connect the dots.
Also, at one point, the GEQ was referenced as the "queen in black" but that descriptor was removed after a patch. Marika is the only queen that wears a black and gold gown.
I would like to believe that melina is the offshoot but she has her own butterfly and she seems to have similar blessing in power as messmer. Her curse might be eternal burning as indicated by her butterfly. Another thing is malenia’s offshoot bore none of her curse of rot at all. So I would assume that offshoot children usually do not have such cursed “blessing”
@@zackaerith1872 millicent and all of her sisters were afflicted with scarlet rot though
@@mattb6616 I missed that out. Kept having the notion it’s only Millicent who have the rot. But ya, unless marika has that eternal flame curse which cause melina to inherit the same curse.
I always thought so; it is why Maliketh couldn't figure out how he betrayed her ... as Gloam-Eyed Queen she went against the Greater Will which made Maliketh turn on her ... just like Blaidd is turning as Ranni is killing her fingers while we are killing Astel.
Ranni kills her fingers with her 'real doll'. That is what makes the crater. This is why the doll we put the ring on is so different, then it goes away, then the 'safe doll' is here to communicate with us.
Her main puppet is far away from Miquella and his influence.
I also believe Marika is possibly the Snow-Witch that taught Ranni and Ranni is quietly finishing Marika's plans. Not that Marika's soul is gone, she is Melina, intentionally having her memories kept from her, but why she seems to 'channel' Marika when speaking her words and can control the runes, teleport us, cast the erdtree healing spell ... and has the gloam eye; the one Maliketh doesn't give us.
She orchestrated Godwyn's death because he chose to be the prince of death and cooperated with his inner-outer-god.
We still don't know who Miquella's inner-outer-god was.
Remember, there is thousands of years of stuff going on and history to be mixed up.
We have the burned Marika statues on the path to Leyndell.
Another interesting connection is all the stuff involving coffins. The game seems to imply that the coffins belong a numen burial practice, as the ants in the underground, who eat the bodies found interred in those coffins, drop Numen runes. And we know that Marika is at least "of the same stock" as the Numen, who are supposed "descendants of denizens of another world," implying that Marika, the shaman, at least shares a common ancestry with these Numen. Moreover, in the underground in the ancient dynasty ruins we also find images on obelisks depicting both the coffin ships we see in the cerulean cost and the practice of growing trees, further connecting the ancient dynasty and the Numen to the stone coffins which inter tainted fleshed, once intended to be burned by ghost flame. So it seems that the Numen, a people related to Marika in some respect, took part in burial practices which involved interring bodies in coffins to be burned by ghost flame before the Age of the Erdtree. Moreover, Miquella, probably very deliberately, chose to divest himself of St. Trina, the avatar of sleep, in Stone Coffin Fissure, whose lighter purple, once discarded and separated out from association with Miquella's gold, coalesces into a deeper velvet, the colour of the death which is Eternal Sleep extremely similar to the purple dusk colour otherwise associated with the Gloam-eyed Queen. This is not to mention the fact that in the game files the Putrescent Knight which guards the discarded St. Trina is called the Gloam-eyed Knight. In addition to this, the cerulean coast is one of the three locations that directly connect to a Finger Ruin, the other two being by the Shaman Village and under Manus Metyr.
It seems plausible to me that the Numen (or shamans) were also present in Cerulean Coast, and that, perhaps, the Gloameyed Queen was an Empyrean associated with the Finger Ruins in that region, if not directly an aspect of Queen Marika herself. In this case, Marika would have encountered her Fingers in the ruins by the Shaman Village and the Gloam-eyed Queen in those by the Cerulean Coast. This would also explain why there is a Gaol in the nearby Charo's Hidden Grave, if there were at one point a shaman presence in this region, albeit associated with the death practices of coffin-burial rather than the life-practices of tree-growth that we see in the Shaman Village. The two other Gaols are 1) under Belurat and 2) by the Bonny Village, which, given the presence the same Grandmother "statue" that we find in Shaman Village, is implied to have originally been a Shaman settlement as well. This original association with death and spirits might also explain not only why Messmer's army makes festive grease (the recipe is found in the Battlefield Priest's Cookbook) but also why the boats of the Tibia Mariners, otherwise associated with spirit summoning, have been repurposed in the Shadow Keep: they are vestiges of Marika's shaman-heritage's former association with death. Perhaps at one point the Shaman were both associated with Life and Death (tree-growth and coffin fire-burial) and this is why they were found to be suitable vehicles for the Hornsent rituals (which are said to take "the cycle of Life and Death in mortal hands"), and maybe Marika discarded this death-aspect of her heritage when she resolved to inaugurate an age of Eternal Life. This may have been what was symbolised by the severing of her braid.
We are in the absolute peak of Elden Ring lore rn 🔥🔥🔥
too kind my dude! and great avatar!
@ZayftheScholar Thank you! I really like smaller lore UA-camrs like you or Kitetales. Vaati and Smough are great tho.
Yeah it's interesting that the channels I mostly listened to pre-DLC are relatively quiet while smaller ones are cooking up some good stuff or at least trying to right now.
@@Minion_5516 your avatar bro... too good lmao
Very nice choice
@@SaintJames14 I only have one small thing to say: I don't even like FF7
This makes the timeline and the story cinematic make much more sense! Honestly, why is the sky purple in the trailer, why is everyone skinned on the gate of divinity? The only hitch is the whole 'Maliketh defeating her' side of things, that becomes more confusing if Marika is the GEQ. Still, I think you're definitely on to something!
From someone else's comment:
"The only other Empyrean shadow reflects his partner, he's granted a cold-infused sword even though he doesn't personally like the cold because Ranni is an empyrean connected to the cold dark moon. Marika's shadow is named Death of the Demigods. He's in all-black armor and wields a sword infused with Death. It just makes sense to me that he's actually the Gloam-Eyed Queen's shadow, and that she went against the intent of her Fingers, causing Maliketh to turn baleful, attack her directly, and bring her to heel. This is why Marika is so bitter towards him and why her only use of him was to seal away Death for later so it could be stolen away and used again. It just makes sense. "
Something interesting about the Godslayer Greatsword that nobody ever seems to mention, is the fact that it's weilded by Vargram the Raging Wolf when we invade him with Bernahl in Leyndell.
Vargram is described as being "One of the first Tarnished to arrive at the Roundtable" and his armour states that "According to the old legends, wolves are the shadows of the Empyrean. Vargram aspired to such a state himself."
The original Roundtable is in the capital right next to Marika's chambers, and his armour description tells us that he wanted to be the shadow of an Empyrean - perhaps that Empyrean was Marika herself? This does seem to make more sense than a follower of one of Marika's enemies weilding her signature sword directly under Marika's nose.
The Dominula villager braids are actually a perfect match for Marika's if you consider they have one short braid and one long braid like the Marika statues.
I would think that the Dominula Village events are something that occured post shattering. The idea that the GEQ was marika could still stand but given that she rpesumably cast off the GEQ persona it may be that the Godskins were also against the 'new' Marika.
This might fit a general storyline where Marika became the GEQ through the Hornsent and then sided with the great serpent to defeat them. That leads to the God Devouring Serpent, whose description seems highly related to the GEQ's Godslaying Fire. The similarity between Mesmer and the Godskins might also imply a very close relationship between Marika and the God Devouring Serpent, resulting in Mesmer and possibly Melina's births (through... magical shenanigans). Marika then discarding her alliance with the serpent post revenge and all of that part of her past to become the Golden Queen would fit this timeline.
There's also a suggestion to be had in symbolism of Serpents, maidens and forbidden knowledge. Maybe Markia encountered the God Devouring Serpent and it was that encounter that put her on the path to destroying the Hornsent and leading to this current timeline.
I like the "Marika was a originally a jar" theory where this is concerned. She acted as the main Numen "body" of the Jar contents we sometimes run into.
Both Radagon and GEQ were other people/beings blended in with her which she discarded as aspects of her conjoined self (like Miquella casting off St.Trina) while following the ritual for god-hood.
She achieved apotheosis and those pieces of her survived as distinct beings. Radagon longed to become one with her again, while the GEQ did not...
Uuuh, I love the last paragraph. "Radagon longed to be part of Marika but the GEQ not". Genius take.
I agree with EVERYTHING in this theory.
Crunchy's last video, that came out BEFORE the DLC, touches on this theory as well, recommend the watch.
I'll have to check it out! Thanks for the rec
Hm, the whole black flame apostles thing is killing gods and skinning them. Hornsent the people who potted up Marikas people, their entire religion was about ascending and becoming deities. If the god skins had some misplaced horns inlayed into their garbs it’s be a lot easier to piece together because other than the Hornsent who achieved deity status there really isn’t any other physical “gods” who could be skinned in Elden Ring. Maybe this could have been marikas betrayal and the god skins assisted in making the divinity gate in which they were subsequently pushed aside by marika. Not to mention it’s cute to have a simple explanation to why her first two children had visions of fire. Not to mention why Morgott and Mohgs blood have aspects of fire that don’t appear in other Omens.
Evidence to the god skins having a hand in making the divinity gate is the fact that in the original story trailer all the corpses that compose the gate were fresh and depicted completely flayed of flesh.
Dude this is an actually really plausible and interesting theory. Gives me a completely different perspective on the game.
Amazing video. I think i’m convinced this makes the most sense. I also think this solves the mystery of a theory i’ve had about Melina, which is that absolutely no one but Marika knew about Melina’s existence so that Melina could be Marika’s ultimate trump card.
i think the corpse that created the Fingerslayer blade is Melina’s body. If Marika was in fact the GEQ, as i’m now convinced of, this would make a lot of sense. I think Maliketh was only able to defeat Marika as the GEQ because she had already born Melina in secret and sealed half her power within Melina’s eye, causing her spirit to be separated from her body. She then uses the corpse to craft the fingerslayer blade and gives it to the Nox. She tells them essentially “if Maliketh defeats me, go kill Metyr with this.” The Nox only succeed in wounding Metyr. The Greater Will sends the Astels to destroy the Nox’s eternal cities in retribution.
See, i think Melina was Marika’s hidden ace in the hole. Burning the Erdtree is a crucial element to Ranni’s ending - which i believe is what Marika ultimately wanted as it’s almost certain Marika helped Ranni with her plot. But importantly, Melina is also Marika’s agent of vengeance if things go wrong, as we see in the Frenzy Flame ending
Keep em coming
I'll keep watching.
Thank you dude!
Real
Idk if its just my poor eyesight - but to back up your point about the statues of Marika in the Land of Shadow, it appears to have both braids still intact, and could definitely therefore be depicting a much younger Marika
There are two main ways I see Marika & the GEQ's relationship going:
1: Melina is the GEQ, and she was born during the early days when Marika was working for the Hornsent. One of the things put into Marika's jar/Crucible was the power of the GEQ, which she either wielded on her own or needed a child who had that power. This also assumes that the Hornsent shoved all the other god/cursed bits they could into Marika, and that her children inheriting them is because they're emerging from within her
2: A rival Empyrean was the GEQ, and Marika had to/chose to consume the others in order to become a full God. This was part of Marika's betrayal, as they would've known one another and suffered similar tortures
Melina was born under the Erd Tree so I don't think she couldve been born before Marika became a god
@@luminaaemor1293 During Melina's latest life, she was born at the foot of the Erdtree. But it is also implied that she may have lived multiple lives before, and can't remember them. So this theory isn't necessarily impossible. And then there is a moment she says something, I don't remember the exact quote, but the gist is "I remember now. I know what I have to do, and I'm gonna do it because I want to, not because I have to."
I think I like the idea of them being related more than being the same person. Specifically, they could have been twins. Malenia and Miquela are twins and have traits that represent opposite aspects (abundance and decay, represented by eternal youth and scarlet rot), so it would make sense for Marika to have an equal and opposite that represents death. The fiery traits of Melina and Messmer could be attributed to them being born carrying traits from their bloodline that skipped Marika, but not their aunt.
They probably started out as allies, before they reached the end of their journey, where only one of them could ascend to godhood.
we never see marika's eyes and i bet they are each on mesmer and melina as seals.
good point! they're always covered
@@DakkaBertMelina only reveals her magic purple eye after the Erdtree and Marika are burned and therefor lose their sealing power.
I think the connection you've made is really good, and I think that a large missing piece of evidence you've neglected looking at hair which can tie this all together is looking at the Lamenter and its connection to all this. The Lamenter is found in a Gaol with other jar people, and a part of its fight involves summoning multiple versions of itself, which is all evidence tying it into the idea that it might be a product of Hornsent being placed in these jars. Using the mask erupts you in black-white fire, much like what you see with use of the Horned Bairn, and attacks from certain Curseblades. The Lamenter is also said to be "blissful" in a twisted sense, much like the celebrants of the Festival
6:18 jarburg
Best theory I've seen about the GEQ so far was that when Marika called the crusade on the Lands of the Tower, she sent Messmer and his army to kill the hornsent and Melina and the Godskin to slay their deities and armed her with the Rune of Death to do so, but when Melina was done she got chosen by her own fingers to be a potential deity herself, so Marika had Maliketh kill her and seal the Rune of Death.
Given that the Godskin greatsword has a spiral appearance, and we know the Hornsent like spirals, I can see the GEQ working together with the Hornsent.
Great summary of theories. Just a very high quality channel overall. Earned a sub.
I think the game actually gives us a reason why Malekith defeats the Gloam-Eyed Queen. Iji says this about Blaidd: "The Two Fingers gave Blaidd to Lady Ranni, as a faithful follower. Her very shadow, incapable of treachery. But if Lady Ranni, as an Empyrean, resists being an instrument of the Two Fingers, the shadow will go mad, transforming from a follower into a horrid curse."
It's hard to describe Malekith as anything but mad, especially when you're talking to him as Gurranq. Gurranq's dialogue lacks the eloquence that Blaidd's has, suggesting that Malekith has been driven mad. This madness might have been triggered because the Empyrean he shadows resisted being an instrument of the Two Fingers at some point in the past.
Maybe Marika, acting as the Gloam-Eyed Queen, resisted the Two Fingers' influence, which drove Malekith to violence. Perhaps the harboring of the Rune of Death was the will of the Two Fingers, not uniquely Marika's decision.
Are we ever told explicitly that Marika was an emperyan? It could be Marika as an emperyan was called the gloam eye queen, then once ascended rebranded.
Which would absolutely go with the story trailer, she ascends and rebrands from the gloam eye queen into Marika the eternal
"Maliketh was a shadowbound beast given to his Empyrean. Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away Destined Death.
Even then, she betrayed him."
Pretty clear cut.
It’d be kinda cool if the grandmother was the GEQ and marika told that shrine/statue that she killed her
Hello great video. I got a detail for your. There's actually a third village of Dominula ladies. It's very hidden in Mount Gelmir. Sadly, there's no woman there to welcome the Tarnished anymore, but the village still has some juicy Dominula lore bits :)
Are you refering to where Golden Vow and Anastasia Tarnished Eater are? Pretty sure there's not really any lore there.
@@quailfeather you are close. lets try with another hint: anastasia's weapon is the exact same model as the Bonny's Village Butchers
Love it!! This potentially fills in a lot of holes that lorehunters have been scouring for for years now.
Some questions I'd love to ponder after this: Does this jive with the "The Gloam-eyed Queen is the God that abandoned the Ancient Dragons" theory? Probably not considering the timeline - but who says one or the other is absolute.
I personally adore this theory. It's one very strong explanation as to why Marika likely had not one, but two children who bore visions of flame - one of them being possessed of an Abyssal Serpent.
While the Godskin Apostles have what appear to be Crucible-esque characteristics, upon closer inspection, most of their animal features are only that of a serpent. Skinny-boy's stretching attack, Big-Boy's serpent tail, etc. Not to mention the Big-boy guarding the shed skin (corpse?) of Eiglay the serpent.
I think you're onto something in that Melina and Messmer both may have been elements Marika needed to discard to ascend to Godhood, much like Miquella did. Melina herself didn't seem to have any knowledge of why she existed - as if she just woke up at the foot of the Erdtree one day...
Super interesting stuff - thanks for the video!
I swear Miyazaki saw Midsommar in the summer of 2019 and was immediately inspired to come up with the Dominula lore and still had time to get it into the game. The floral motif, the "festival" with dark undertones, the emphasis on femininity and the creepy dancing really remind me of things in that movie - not to mention all of the sinister stuff that takes place.
Great Connection with the Fires Deadly Sin spell!!! Definitely never made that connection but I think ur on to something there 💯🔥
Also, is it just me or does the godskin casting symbol look like Metyr's face and wart-like eye?
Thank god I finally see a comment saying this.
It's so similar.
Wonder what it implies ?
Oh, hey Zayf
I hope things are well and that you continue to enjoy what you do :)
Excellent and concise presentation, well balanced editing and pleasant voice to listen to, 10/10 content
I saw another video that was intriguing.
Marika has 2 sets of twins children with Mohg/Morgott and Miquella/Malenia. Twinship (if that’s a word) usually comes from the Maternal side.
That being said it’s entirely possible that Marika and the Gloam-Eyed Queen were twins.
The best theory is still that Melina is the Gloam-eyed Queen but it’s possible she inherited that power from her “Aunt” so to speak.
There’s also some connection with the GEQ and the Serpent, like we see in the Church of Eiglay. Maybe that explains the he snake skin by Marika’s hometown?
Perhaps she birthed Messmer there, shedding her snake aspect to him.
Being a shaman she had all the aspects to shed. Omen, Rot, etc. Her shedding and birthing of Messmer and Melina were the first steps in committing her great sins.
One child burning down the order of one world and the other to burn down the next.
Interesting also how the Black flame monk chestpiece is the only armor that describes a seduction, in reference to the God-Slaying black flame.
I’m so glad to see this theory coming to light more. I’ve thought for a while that Marika was the Gloam-Eyed Queen before she was Queen Marika the Eternal. In the various lore subreddits, however, this is not a welcome theory.
You have to know a ton of lore stuff for this to even begin to make sense.
If this theory holds up then the connection Marika has with the Fell God and by extension the serpent god is now concrete proof, I also noticed when you look at the way the arms look at the divine gate you can see that most of them also look like the arms found in the Blade of Blasphemy and all over Rykard's/Serpent's corpse, and it's also this that now shows how the Fell God and the fingers might have come into contact with one another. All that is needed is the connection between the Elden Beast and the dragons in Farum Azula to the Fell God and the GEQ as the Godskin twins are there and after we rekindle the flame of the Giants we are then transported to Farum Azula so there must be a connection there.
It would make sense that Marika is the GEQ. Gloam refers to time of dusk, shadow or night. Maybe she was the shadow lands “queen” and had to become the Marika we know today in order to reach and destroy the Elden Ring.
The shadowlands exalted her for what she did there (hence her statues poses) and the lands between punished her because she broke the status quo (her crucified pose)
Also, I’m sure someone pointed out - the lands between are above the shadowlands but below what?
Brilliant.
Literally the first time I’ve heard this brought up and I think you nailed it. Everything fits. The shed skin, the festival… even going a bit deeper how it parallels with Miquella shedding St Trina .
Well done lad, this is some top notch connecting of the dots.
Very insightful. Ancestral woods has some similarities with dominula, the animals are peacefulbatound them, they use bone weapons rather then forged, they have rats chilling with them , the revere buds and flowers, and they both have areas near them sinking or under water. Dominula is like a more modern version of the same culture, and its a culture older then the erdtree that has to do with rituals, festivals and the stars.
A great video and theory!
Finally someone is addressing this.
Dominula is the first place that came to my mind when I visited Bonney and Shaman village.
After the Mother of Fingers could no longer receive signals from the Greater Will, she gradually descended into madness. According to the description of the Fingerprint Stone Shield and the Gazing Finger, the persistent slamming of the finger led to the very seeds from which Frenzy first sprouted. However, that is another story.
Following their mother’s descent into madness, the Fingers plotted a rebellion, leading to Maliketh’s betrayal and a scenario similar to the one between Ranni and Blaidd. Imagine if Blaidd had successfully hunted down Ranni and sealed her power, turning her into a true slave. Ranni would undoubtedly collapse and give rise to another persona. Similarly, if the same situation had occurred with Marika, the personality of the Gloam-Eyed Queen would dissipate, giving way to the Eternal Queen Marika.
Dissolving a personality entirely is extremely difficult. First, the flames and the power of the serpent that were split off led to the births of Messmer and Melina. Later, Marika calling upon Numen members, used the Fingerslayer Blade to harm the Mother of Fingers, causing a malfunction. The Fingers then rose up in rebellion and incited the Black Blades, defeating her and sealing the Death Rune.
In the DLC trailer, we see Marika extracting the golden threads from the Relic of the Godskin Apostle. After raising the threads and using Radagon and Marika’s lord and empyrean rights to qualify for crossing the Divine Gate, golden birth occurs, and death is utterly sealed.
I think the Gloam Eyed Queen is Melina, who is the divested part of Marika. She wiped Melina's mind so that she would meet the tarnished and lead them to kill her. If we follow the Frenzied Flame ending, Marika's divested portion (Melina) would then have her memories restored, recalling that she is the GEQ and sending her after us since she was likely meant to die, sacrificing herself and killing herself to save the world, destroy death and put everything back into order from before the Greater Will came into power which would save the world from the cycle that had been put forth since the GW appeared in their world.
I'd go as far to say that Marika was always the hero of the world, destined to sacrifice herself and loved ones for the greater good of all life, leaving her friends and loved ones behind, but recognizing this was the only way she could save the world.
I think there's something that contradicts this due to the DLC, but I am also not entirely certain about it. When you kill Miquella, Trina dies. Implying even though divested, she was able to live as long as Miquella was also alive. And when he dies, so does she.
When you become the Lord of Frenzy, I think it is implied that you burn Marika to nothing along with pretty much everything nearby. This clearly let's Melina loose from... whatever it is she was restricted by, and hints that she might be the GEQ, but it suggests to me that Melina is not a divested part of Marika as she would die when Marika does. And yet, she is still there.
Now, maybe Marika hasn't been killed in that ending, it isn't exactly clear, but it definitely seems like it as she crumbles to nothing before the entire tree and sky lights up in flame. I think Melina is simply Marika's daughter as is suggested by some of the text related to Messmer having a sister with visions of flame.
I also think even attempting to call Marika a hero, let alone THE hero of the world is pretty far off. There's a lot of grey morality in this game, but Marika shows herself to be a selfish, genocidal tyrant. She has a sympathetic backstory, but that doesn't really square with the rest of her entire life of conquering, subjugating, and destroying anything that didn't fit into her idea of order.
I think it is probably true that Marika is the one guiding you by grace, and not the greater will, but I don't see that as some grand plan to remove the Greater Will. The Greater Will has already left the lands between as made clear by the lore behind Metyr. It strikes me more that she is hoping you kill her as an act of suicide on her part because after all of her efforts to right the atrocities she faced at the hands of the Hornsent, it was all for naught. Her age of plenty faded, and when Godwyn was killed, she shattered the ring in grief. I think even the way you phrased it proves her lack of heroism, "destined to sacrifice herself and loved ones for the greater good of all life" -- sacrificing someone else is not an act of heroism. It is an act of a psychopath.
Another interesting layer is Radagon's involvement and purpose as a character in the lore. Bear with me here as these thoughts aren't quite fully formed, but what always perplexed me is the Knights of the Cuckoo and why they're called as such. Elden Ring has many instances where there are characters and relationships that are part-analogous to others elsewhere or for lack of a better term, mirror each other. "Cuckoo" always struck a chord with me as the naming for these Knights, as Cuckoo's are parasites, birds that would infiltrate the nests of other birds lay their eggs inside and have those birds raise their offspring, which to me, was mighty similar to what Radagon did to Renalla. Perhaps the Cuckoo Knights were aptly named, secretly employed by Radagon to finish off what he began, destroying Caria from within' after he was prematurely called back to the Capitol to become Elden Lord? With that in mind, was this the first time Radagon was employed in this regard? Could he have been sent to seduce other enemies in Marika's midst and bare children that would then go back to be reabsorbed into Marika's court? Are Messmer and Melina children of the GEQ and Radagon, only to have the GEQ betrayed and defeated/murdered and her children stolen to be raised under the Erdtree?
the godskin apostle emblem on the robe looks like a massive fingerprint
Midras Manse and the Temple of the Bud with Romina are also flower heavy. I think the flower thing is less of a connection to each other and more an indicator of something else. Life? Divinity?
What I find interesting is the androgynous nature of the grandmother who seems to have no breasts, as well as Marika in the dlc trailer.
Perhaps the shaman themselves were a race of beings that had merged male and female together into the alchemical Rebis, and thus were sought by the hornsent for this very ability.
The ability to merge the flesh (and spirit?) of two into a singular whole.
Marika had beasts. Her back was turned and you can see the swell of them from the that selective angle. It’s a trailer. They aren’t going to show her breasts even if it’s rated MA. I believe she’s without her signature tunic because it’s meant to be before she ascended.
To be fair, every female character in Elden Ring doesn't have much "personality" in the upper torso area if you know what I mean.
@@tuba3000 Elden Ring doesn't even have a single magnificent chest ahead
@@thepancakemann Exactly!
The thing is, Godfrey is able to graft like Shamans can. That is the whole gimmick of his Golden Lineage. I think the Highlanders (the group who Godfrey comes from, and who are probably the guys who are involved with bear communion stuff in the DLC) can graft as well and are just the male 'brother' tribe to the shaman. The women stayed in the tribe in their villages and the men had their own stuff going on seperate from the women. Women stayed in the villages and the men were nomadic.
I followed a similar idea, not that Marika IS the gloom eyed queen, but possibly her consort; Hence the betrayal. I believe there’s a connection between the hornsent collecting the flesh of shamans, with the godskins collecting the flesh of gods.
I think you're right. The background circular symbols on Marika's statue look like an infinity symbol, but now I think it might be a reference to the ouroboros or a snake eating its own tail. That ties so much together!
good point id been wondering what that swirl behind her on every statue was, i knew it had to be significant
What a timely video. I was just defending Melina's status as the kindling maiden online.
Honestly this is the best articulation of this theory I've heard so far. Great stuff.
marika being the gloameyed queen can explain the serpant that was found in the bonny vilage
That was the ultimate thing that tipped the scales for me.
I would argue that Marika was the succesful product of the Hornsent's jar rituals on the Shaman.
And I believe that this ritual is what made her an "Emperyean", and that it allowed her to join the Hornsent at one point, allowing her to "seduce" and "betray" them at one point.
I mean it even fits her theme of merging with Radagon or otherwise.
That, or another theory is that the skin in Bonny village and snake-like markings on the top of jars indicate that the jarring process was an imitation of the primordial vessel I.e., the snake- which the amnion tells us creates life through a repellent birthing ritual. Perhaps the Hornsent were not trying to create Marika but imitate the creation of Marika themselves, not unlike what we see the Nox trying to accomplish.
I'm still digging into this but my first suspicion came from seeing the Bonny skin, and very close by a petrified woman/deity like the Grandmother. Seems like the Hornsent were trying to recreate this process, maybe to make the tutlary deities?
And it would make the Dominula Village festival make sense - the items mention a young maiden being the centre of the festival, and this would have been Marika who maybe was intended to become a petrified deity, but instead enacted her plan when the Hornsent ravaged her people. She stole their power and created a giant Erdtree instead of the little grandma tree in the village.... and Marika even ends up petrified like at the end. Not unlike a jar or vessel.
Maybe there’s a link between Dominula windmill village and being able to summon Millicent here, since she’s possibly Marika’s or the Gloam Eyed Queen’s granddaughter
Another place with a floral theme is Jarburg, which I find interesting with the Shaman connection to jars
One thing that may absolutely be wrong, but I think the face of the mother of the fingers really looks like the gloamed eyed queen symbol when casting her spells
Id like to note that the description of the golden braid, a new tailsman, states “A braid of hair, cut loose. Queen Marikas offering to the grandmother- What was her prayer? Her confession? There is no one left answer, and Marika never returned home again” I’d like to believe that Marikas wish was to separate from the gloam eyed queen, and her confession being that the gloam eyed queen is part of her own flesh.
Waitttt I think you're onto something omg I never noticed these details!!!
My own theory not related to this is that our character the tarnished is a child of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, and perhaps all of the headless demigods in the mausoleums are all children of GEQ as well. I mean think about it, why does Melina seek us out of all Tarnished? Why do we have the ability to slay gods and obtain their powers? We are essentially a Godskin without the whole skinning bit.
This video plus CenteredTarnished's video from from a day or two ago has me pretty much sold on this theory.
Someone else mentioned it too so I'll have to check it out!
It's mentioned that Enir-Ilim was a tower built "to reach the gods". You know who would want to reach the gods? Someone intending to go on a god hunt.
We see the divine gate at the pinnacle of Enir-Ilim in the story trailer, constructed of viscera, blood, and corpses. A closer look at the tower in-game reveals that the entire structure was constructed in very much the same way. Imagine it back then. A towering structure tall enough to be seen from every corner of the lands between, glistening with blood, gore, and corpses. A tower of death. Building a structure like that, in that fashion, would require supernatural powers and perhaps control over death itself. The only person I can think of who would be capable of this is an entity who had control over the Elden Ring BEFORE Marika. The Gloam-Eyed Queen.
Marika eventually ordered Messmer to purge the hornsent, and the land mass at the center of the lands between was magically veiled and separated from the physical plane. Marika so thoroughly erased the history of the hornsent and the shadow lands that no one even remembers they ever existed in the first place. Completely purged from history as punishment for what they did to the Shaman. What if this is exactly how the hornsent felt about the GEQ. The hornsent worship the crucible, the embodiment of life itself, blended together in all its forms. Their jarsaint rituals were in imitation of the crucible, a blending of life. The GEQ seems like the exact opposite of what the hornsent worship about the crucible. Now imagine how they would feel if their dead were used as sacrifices to build a massive tower to invade the realm of the gods, perhaps the very domain of the crucible itself, and hunt them down. I think something so blasphemous would make them want to purge her existence from history and repurpose her tower as a holy structure linked to the crucible. I think perhaps her godskin children would be chased from that land, carrying with them the only relics that prove she ever existed at all.
Messmer is red of hair, and his music/theme shares a leitmotif with Radagon's theme. I believe "the seduction and betrayal" referenced in the trailer was Marika taking on the form of Radagon to seduce the GEQ. The GEQ would go on to bear two children, one inheriting the aspects of the base serpent, and the other, her blackflame of destined death. I believe after they were born, when the time was right, Marika used Maliketh (who likely got his name "death of the gods" from joining the GEQ's godhunts) to betray her, slaying the GEQ and then laying claim to the Elden Ring before the divine gate, entryway to the realm of the gods, to become a god herself. She then plucked out the eyes of Melina and Messmer and sealed them with her grace, such that the aspects of the GEQ, the base serpent and blackflame, could never be used against her. Radagon is the father. And as you know, Radagon is Marika.
The GEC as a facet of Marika is something I considered before the DLC, and now we know about jar saints, I think it is a very strong hypothesis. Thanks for laying it all out, I knew there was deeper connections to the shaman village somewhere and stupid me forgot about Dominula
I watch a lot of theory videos and I have never been so won over. This is a really interesting and possible theory
The jar shamans have white hair. The black knives have white hair…. Omg
Dominula Celebrants have white hair..
The Black Knives have no heads at all
@@quailfeather look at the official art that plays at the beginning of the game
@@TigerGemini98 interesting
"Honey, knock out the kids and sweep the booze bottles off the table, Zayf put out a new video!"
😭 Appreciate you @TheBigHatLegion!
What a bombshell. I think you’re onto something. I never even knew that spell from Dominula existed. I wonder if there are any other links regarding the Blessed bone shards? Also how close is Bonny Village to Dominula on the overlaid map?
Bro don't stop cooking! You're stuff is completely turning this lore community upside down with these theories!
Haha! I dunno if that's really a good thing but I had to get a bit unhinged on this one once I saw how weird some of the connections were.
@@ZayftheScholar Mate don't matter. People forget a lot of this lore stuff is speculative anyway 🤣. Fantastic video. Would have never made this connection to Sharmin village.
This is the first Gloam Eyed Queen theory that makes sense to me. If Maliketh is a baleful shadow like Blaidd then it makes sense that he would go after the side of Marika that rebelled against the fingers. If Radagon is the part of Marika that is loyal to the Golden Order then it makes sense that the Gloam Eyed Queen is the side of Marika that wants to break free of the Golden Order and the fingers.
Didn’t expect it but this was a very solid theory!
5:10 Looks like a depiction of Metyr if you squint, plus some parts of the “face” in the cape match up to the black flame insignia
This made a lot of sense. Great video
Damn, this tied with the thoughts surrounding the gloam eyed queen being the corpse snake thing in the teaser trailer for the DLC fit really well together. I'm leaning with this one more than the other one now as it has more in-game lore connections, but this is sweet.
I think a possibility is that the Gloam Eye Queen is Marika's mother. Marika and Radagon children of the Gloam Eye Queen. Marika was seduced by Metyr (Gnostic demiurge) and betrayed her Mother by fusing with Radagon and using the Gate of Divinity.
Marika and Radagon are Gnostic Eve and Adam. Shaman Village is Garden of Eden, the Tree is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The statue in the tree is the original sin, forbidden arts of souls transfer. Same arts we see with the Nox. But, that magic is the "forbidden fruit" to be like the Gods and live forever.
Really enjoyed your theory!
As far as the floral themes go, there's one more location that might actually help tie the two together, Jarburg. Given its mostly utility flowers the player can actually harvest, but they're there because the jars cultivated them. They're even searching for their potentate, assumedly like the ones roaming Bonny Village.
I obsessed over Dominula when lore hunting on DLC day one and came to the same conclusion. The blue cape and black flame symbol also looks like Metyr and makes me think that Metyr picked Marika but was later betrayed and left abandoned in the Shadowlands, when Marika divested death and the GEQ.
The GEQ is so random otherwise and we know of one Queen wearing black who is strongly tied to motherhood, being a chosen empyrean, etc. We also know there used to be more gods that are gone now in Marika's rule. She is even said to have dropped the fell god herself. Sounds like something that someone witb access to the black flame could accomplish. And witb her own order secured, Marika sealed the two things that she used to rise to power, the gate and destined death.
This is probably the best explanation of the Marika = GEQ theory I've seen, well done. Consider me a new convert.
I still think that thing Marika's taking the gold out of in the story trailer is Metyr's face (and singular eye). Even still, with the possible connection between Metyr and the Godskins, that doesn't entirely discredit what you're saying.
4:28 It sounds wrong that Marika would do that.
I think it is more likely that Maliketh was acting on orders from Radagon instead of Marika , Radagon wanted to mend the Elden Ring while Marika wanted to destroy the elden ring , therefore kill the Elden Beast ,a God , a godslayer's greatsword was more than capable of doing so.
Maliketh stopped Marika from killing the Elden beast and Radagon succeeded in starting his golden order.
And most likely it was then when the Rune of Death was confined and the Gloam eyed queen , was defeated and "made" into the Rune of Death , just like Godwyn was by Fia into the Mending Rune of the Duskborn.
Of course this is my speculation for that part
Now this is a very interesting possibility as well! We really need to talk more about Radagon's role in all of this. He is literally titled "Of the Golden Order" and Marika's incantation from the DLC specifically says that its an incantation of Kindness WITHOUT Order. And like you said, Radagon literally tries to uphold the Order while Marika tries to tear it down.
It does make me wonder if a lot of the stuff attributed to Marika was actually Radagon's doing. Afterall, almost every bit of info we get about Marika from the base game revolves around her either plotting to have a God Killed, telling her kids they will be sacrifices, sending tarnished away to get stronger and then come back, and literally shattering the ring.
Marika's Pose is literally crucified on Radagon's Golden Order Totality Pose. Perhaps Radagon is true "villain" in this story.
That's right! In St.Trina's own words to the Tarnished , "Godhood would be Miquella's prison. A caged divinity is beyond saving"
I think that Marika was essentially caged in her own body, maybe that's why in a desperate attempt to be free of radagon she shattered the Elden Ring even if it meant to be her downfall.Perhaps that's why St.Trina came to that conclusion about Miquella aswell.
Great video, but I can’t help but imagine the celebrants of windmill village skinning people for the sake of the Godskin. There is a Godskin apostle standing atop their town, looking down upon them all, but the strange festival details and designs choices seems to evoke something deeper, like you say in your video.
you argumented for this theory much better than centered tarnished, I think this holds a bigger impact on the theory much more than a damn shed skin on a village pointing at a shed.
Dominula is clearly a reference to shaman village, and that makes it telling that the flaying of skin was indeed something tied to the culture there. Now we may never know what the hell is going on with that little bit of skin, but the strands of gold marika pulls out are clear. We've seen MIquella try to shed and accept all the sins of the erdtree by doing very similar things to what marika did to ascend, Perhaps even divesting herself of a part of her. Radagon clearly came after the whole fact and became a devout follower of the golden order. Marika guides us the whole game through the guidance of grace. The roundtable hold is clearly her inside world or something near to a pocket dimension of the erdtree. I think when godlike beings such as marika appear in stories I enjoy the most when we see them in some shape or form, perhaps not to tell how all the pieces fall into place as that doesnt incentive discussion, but I'm quite fond with how ff14 handled that kind of myth and fable eventually turning into a figure.
The divine beast hunt, being a hunt of the gods of the hornsent.. and it just so happens that we already learned of another God hunt, under the disciples of the gloat eyed queen.. isn’t it interesting we never see Queen Marika’s eyes
You are pretty much spot on a lore here.
Amazing video! A lot of points I hadn't thought of. The Dominula connection is very interesting.
One thing I haven't been ablet o get over that I bring up in a video of my own about Melina, is that if the GEQ, Godskins and Godhunt happened in the land of shadow, why isn't their any relics of this?
My thought was that the GEQ would have had to have been after Marika sealed away the Shadow Realm for there to be no remnants.
Well, maybe that's what Ascending through the gate really was. She went up the tower of babel (belurat) to reach the heavens. Once she made it into heaven (the lands between) the God Hunt could truly begin. Hence all the godskins and darkflame being only in TLB.
And perhaps it wasn't all malicious as it was just about vengeance. Trying to kill The Greater Will itself for allowing her people to suffer as they did. Who knows if any of us are right though 😂
@@FartsHaveATaste First off, what a username lol. Both foul and hilarious.
As you say, the GEQ is an incredibly difficult topic to talk about, I've done my own theories but truthfully, it seems as though there is evidence to dispute anyone being the GEQ, so it likely is a situation of believing your own head canon because we will never know for sure.
Okay yeah you cooked here brother, I buy this theory almost entirely. I have been wracking my brain for two months trying to figure out The Seduction. Excellent stuff.
6:23 both the cerulean coast and charo's hidden grave are also covered in flowers. not to mention jarburg like others have pointed out.
Worth noting that there is a third place with a heavy amount of decorative flowers, and it's Jarburg of all places. Makes ya think
I said this for years and I’ve been called a madman for eons. I’m so glad that someone in a way of media can provide this evidence in a way. I haven’t been able to. Keep up the good work keep digging deeper. There are more secrets to find.
I don’t know if this is exactly what Miyazaki imagined, but damn it’s good. Maybe better than anything he imagined himself. Loved it!
I actually had a chat with Timdiggety, in the comment section of his 'Q&A | Passing Time Before Elden Ring DLC' video, right around the time the DLC was released. I think you should give it a read. All because I made a comment about his character name :)
The TLDR; The GEQ basically represents the concept of Nyx, the night mother who dwells in the unconscious, but also the aspect of Marika's self that doesn't know how to overcome the traumatic event she experienced. The shadow and the Ego. As above, so below. It's actually quite a common theme in video games.
In timdiggity's comment section, we actually discuss Final Fantasy 7 a fair bit, but games like Silent Hill, Genshin Impact, Final Fantasy (7, 9 and 10), Persona (3 is basically Elden Ring's core story and 5R explains what Miquella's goal is), Majora's Mask, Shin Megami Tensei (3 (even contains the same different endings as Elden Ring) and 5) follow the exact same blueprint, just to name a few.