@4:08 you explained the VAL backwards. You said "The lower the number the smoother the ball is gunna hook. The higher the number, the sharper it's gunna corner down lane." Immediately after said you use "I like 25... that's really low, really sharp." which is correct.
Amazing!!! I’m a 2 handed bowler who uses 2LS and now I layout my own balls and then have my pro shop operator drill it. Me being able to layout the ball I want in my own way allows me to be really precise about what I want out of the ball if that makes sense. The storm 2LS chart has six really good options based on the ideal 6 ball arsenal but with revs and speed being different I think it’s good to venture out and tweak some of the numbers here and there based on my game
My PSO always lays mine out, but we discuss what the ball should do for me beforehand. Would love to layout my own stuff soon and this video was very helpful. Thanks for the great vids guys.
Excellent video and great explanation. I personally use the Storm VLS system as it's very simple to layout in my opinion. I also drill my own equipment as I can experiment more and drill a ball on the fly if need be. I tried a local Pro Shop person I've used since 2000 and he screwed my new Pink Widow. He didn't do the layout I asked for and drilled the thumb hole switch grip inner to low. I ended up re-drilling the thumb hole myself and buying a new switch grip inner. Never again..
To simplify dual angles to people who don't know what the differences are, The last angle number is the height of the pin, 20 will be way up above your fingers and 80 will be pin below. So it controls the pin "vertically. " So you can physically measure the distance from 20 to 80 in inches and calculate how much every 10 degrees moves it. Pin to pap distance is self explanatory, but it controls the pin 'horizontally". First angle number is how much you want the (CG mark) kicked out or not kicked out since both Asym and sym balls have it or you can use the mb mark.
it!s a lot to take in and I hope to improve my bowling results as well as my Team players and Friends by helping them to choose a layout that will match up with league lane conditions and equipment . Your presentation was Excellently delivered and crisp , thank you So Very Much !
Thanks for another helpful video. Although I have a top shelf local PSO in Raleigh NC (Matt Taylor), it wasn't until I started doing my own grip, layouts and drilling that I finally nailed both my grip and arsenal.
Love the video! Wish you guys would’ve covered what each number does and which range you should be in like Jungo did with the first number he described
Nice video. The comparison of layout methods is clear and helpful. Dumb question, but what's the best way to sharpen the wax pencil to get a nice sharp point on it like a normal pencil?
Hi, I’m a bit confused on the VAL angle. You said that the lower the number the smoother the hook and the higher the number the sharper the hook. Then you said you like 25 that’s very low and very sharp? Just wanted to clarify Love the vids!
I am a 2 finger bowler. Took it to the local alley. Pretty sure its drilled wayyyy off. It never gets to the rolling transition to go through the pins.
I'm the one who lays out my equipment. I'd rather take personal responsibility for disliking a layout instead of blaming the PSO, which is sadly all too common.
Dual angle and the rule of N is the easiest for me to wrap my mind around. Would like to try 2LS but nowhere near me knows how to do it. Good pro shops are worth making a trip for.
@ 4:10 did you say the VAL Angle wrong?? Because it sounds like your next statement is contradictory ?? thanks for helping me learn these....love your channel :)
I layout my own and i use VLS. It's funny, i went to a shop where they say "oh were all about storm". Storm banners everywhere, storm towels, shelf full of storm, roto grip, 900 global balls, they had storm jerserys on, it was like walking into a shop that sold only storm products. They obviously sold other brands too but primarily storm. I told them i wanted a 4.5 x 4.5 x 2 layout on my DNA. They had no idea how to use VLS. The 1st arc they did was from PSA to PAP (WRONG, that should be the second number. i mean sure the 2 measurements are the same but if i did them differently, it would be wrong like on my eternity). Then the second line he did PIN to PSA (no idea how he measured that and still drew it on the wrong side, aka WRONG). Then the 3rd line they did PIN to PAP (kind of right but wrong number, WRONG). They looked at it and looked at me like i was crazy. "You want this layout?" So i took their prosect, did my own lines, gave it back and said "here dont fuck up the drilling at least". With everything there, they still messed up the drilling. Blamed it on me since i did my own layout. They didnt clean the ball off completely so you could see the missed line from drilling.
Jungo! We have extremely similar ball roll but I’m a lefty. May I ask what your go to layouts are? I know being on the other side I have less overall friction but still curious what yours are, thanks!
You said the lower the number the smoother, then said you went with 25 for big down lane angle. Was that a mistake, or am I not understanding high/low numbers?
My last few balls I've laid out myself since no one would help with finding my PAP. Plus I feel like it's better that bowler at least do their own layouts so they know what exactly they're getting vs having a PSO giving them something random or "what they thing is good"
Did you get mix up your last angle? Lol cause you said the lower number the smoother the ball will be and then you said you did a lower number cause you need it to be sharper. And that's true the lower the number the sharper it will be and the higher the number the smoother it will be
Mo had said that longer PIN to PAP distances (5 inches) enhanced forward roll at the end of the lane. Since a high tracker already has excessive forward roll then 3.5 - 4 inch PIN to PAP distances would retain more shape at the back of the lane for these type players.
I try to pretend to know what I'm talking about with my pso and layouts. He got mad at me because when I started bowling I used the internet to look up information (how-to vids). Best advice is still talking to pso, a real human being with physical measuring tools and devices for pitch angles. Make sure they're certified and not just a Joe with a drill... just a bonus bit: PAP 5 3/4 x 1 7/8 down DNA - 2LS 4.5x4.5x4 Katana Assault - 2LS 4x4x5 Phaze 2 - 2LS 4x4x2.675 (was gifted, not redrilled, measured for my PAP) Helios - DA 85x4x43 Fate - DA 102x3.5x35 Hustle Wine - DA 45x5.675x80 Zen U - 2LS 4x4x3 Why? bored, insomnia Think you can find the ones that I tried suggesting?
Your last statement is very concerning. How could anyone understand anything in this video unless you went to a professional course on how to drill a bowling ball???
You guys don't explain anything you're telling us your doing! How would I know what type of ball to ask my Pro-shop I want if I don't understand anything you're telling me in this video???
Seeing the VLS system and how it works, I appreciate the dual angle system so much more.
@4:08 you explained the VAL backwards. You said "The lower the number the smoother the ball is gunna hook. The higher the number, the sharper it's gunna corner down lane."
Immediately after said you use "I like 25... that's really low, really sharp." which is correct.
Glad someone else caught that
Yep caught that too.
Lower the number the quicker it sees the friction. The higher the number the slower it sees the friction.
I watched this like 4 times making sure I wasn’t going crazy with what he was saying lol
Amazing!!! I’m a 2 handed bowler who uses 2LS and now I layout my own balls and then have my pro shop operator drill it. Me being able to layout the ball I want in my own way allows me to be really precise about what I want out of the ball if that makes sense. The storm 2LS chart has six really good options based on the ideal 6 ball arsenal but with revs and speed being different I think it’s good to venture out and tweak some of the numbers here and there based on my game
This is the best one-stop video for learning these systems.
My PSO always lays mine out, but we discuss what the ball should do for me beforehand. Would love to layout my own stuff soon and this video was very helpful. Thanks for the great vids guys.
Excellent video and great explanation. I personally use the Storm VLS system as it's very simple to layout in my opinion. I also drill my own equipment as I can experiment more and drill a ball on the fly if need be. I tried a local Pro Shop person I've used since 2000 and he screwed my new Pink Widow. He didn't do the layout I asked for and drilled the thumb hole switch grip inner to low. I ended up re-drilling the thumb hole myself and buying a new switch grip inner. Never again..
I use a system called BLS for calculating benchmark/median layouts. For convenience, I convert the values to dual angle for subsequent layouts.
Cool tech bowling bowling ball layout on the bowling ball science Jr pro shop
To simplify dual angles to people who don't know what the differences are,
The last angle number is the height of the pin, 20 will be way up above your fingers and 80 will be pin below. So it controls the pin "vertically. "
So you can physically measure the distance from 20 to 80 in inches and calculate how much every 10 degrees moves it.
Pin to pap distance is self explanatory, but it controls the pin 'horizontally".
First angle number is how much you want the (CG mark) kicked out or not kicked out since both Asym and sym balls have it or you can use the mb mark.
it!s a lot to take in and I hope to improve my bowling results as well as my Team players and Friends by helping them to choose a layout that will match up with league lane conditions and equipment .
Your presentation was Excellently delivered and crisp , thank you So Very Much !
Great job guys I followed along I have the Storm arc ruler and the Pro Sect and I can do both. Thank you 😊
Great tutorial. Kinda know what the pro shop guys are talking about!
After learning 2LS, PAL, and Dual Angle I have started laying all of my own stuff out. As a 2 hander I actually prefer Dual Angle the most.
Great video! Now if I could just find a decent priced PROSECT... Keep up the good work. Looking forward to all the upcoming ball review videos.
Thanks for another helpful video. Although I have a top shelf local PSO in Raleigh NC (Matt Taylor), it wasn't until I started doing my own grip, layouts and drilling that I finally nailed both my grip and arsenal.
You mean Raleigh, NC? Lol cause that’s where I get my balls drilled at Taylors Mark Pro Shop
I layout and drill my own
Love the video! Wish you guys would’ve covered what each number does and which range you should be in like Jungo did with the first number he described
I have been seeing how the layout numbers work for me with my game and style so My last few bowling balls I have given my PSO the layout numbers.
Nice video. The comparison of layout methods is clear and helpful. Dumb question, but what's the best way to sharpen the wax pencil to get a nice sharp point on it like a normal pencil?
Hi, I’m a bit confused on the VAL angle. You said that the lower the number the smoother the hook and the higher the number the sharper the hook. Then you said you like 25 that’s very low and very sharp?
Just wanted to clarify
Love the vids!
I am a 2 finger bowler. Took it to the local alley. Pretty sure its drilled wayyyy off. It never gets to the rolling transition to go through the pins.
I'm the one who lays out my equipment. I'd rather take personal responsibility for disliking a layout instead of blaming the PSO, which is sadly all too common.
I have to learn. I just got a venom exj and I'm hitting the layout it's burning out
Dual angle and the rule of N is the easiest for me to wrap my mind around. Would like to try 2LS but nowhere near me knows how to do it.
Good pro shops are worth making a trip for.
At this point, I left it up to the Pro-Shop.
I wonder if 2LS layouts may benefit someone with an extreme PAP?
My old man is 6 1/4 and 5/8^
Figuring 2 handers have very big across measurements.
@ 4:10 did you say the VAL Angle wrong?? Because it sounds like your next statement is contradictory ?? thanks for helping me learn these....love your channel :)
I layout my own and i use VLS.
It's funny, i went to a shop where they say "oh were all about storm". Storm banners everywhere, storm towels, shelf full of storm, roto grip, 900 global balls, they had storm jerserys on, it was like walking into a shop that sold only storm products. They obviously sold other brands too but primarily storm. I told them i wanted a 4.5 x 4.5 x 2 layout on my DNA. They had no idea how to use VLS. The 1st arc they did was from PSA to PAP (WRONG, that should be the second number. i mean sure the 2 measurements are the same but if i did them differently, it would be wrong like on my eternity). Then the second line he did PIN to PSA (no idea how he measured that and still drew it on the wrong side, aka WRONG). Then the 3rd line they did PIN to PAP (kind of right but wrong number, WRONG). They looked at it and looked at me like i was crazy. "You want this layout?"
So i took their prosect, did my own lines, gave it back and said "here dont fuck up the drilling at least". With everything there, they still messed up the drilling. Blamed it on me since i did my own layout. They didnt clean the ball off completely so you could see the missed line from drilling.
As Vinny Barbarino would say, " I so cunfuuuused."
Jungo! We have extremely similar ball roll but I’m a lefty. May I ask what your go to layouts are? I know being on the other side I have less overall friction but still curious what yours are, thanks!
Can you shed some light on laying out a bowling ball using just the armadillo
You said the lower the number the smoother, then said you went with 25 for big down lane angle. Was that a mistake, or am I not understanding high/low numbers?
Hey, when buying a mill, whats the minimum spindle to table height i would need?
My last few balls I've laid out myself since no one would help with finding my PAP. Plus I feel like it's better that bowler at least do their own layouts so they know what exactly they're getting vs having a PSO giving them something random or "what they thing is good"
Why is Barks' audio only coming from the right side?
Is a 3x4x2 layout vls or is 2ls
For the last angle Higher the number the sharper its going to hook. Then u say 25 that is really low and sharp. Huh?? May u elaborate on this please?
What does vls give thats different than dual angle? I guess why would someone pick to layout vls as opposed to dual angle?
can someone point me to a good pro shop in Seattle
can you drill a bowling ball without a PAP?
Did you get mix up your last angle? Lol cause you said the lower number the smoother the ball will be and then you said you did a lower number cause you need it to be sharper. And that's true the lower the number the sharper it will be and the higher the number the smoother it will be
I am a two finger but ONE handed bowler which is odd according to some people. Anybody else have a layout they use for that style?
never understood why Mo wanted 3.5 inch pins for people that roll it and have high track and have problem with ball hooking early
Mo had said that longer PIN to PAP distances (5 inches) enhanced forward roll at the end of the lane. Since a high tracker already has excessive forward roll then 3.5 - 4 inch PIN to PAP distances would retain more shape at the back of the lane for these type players.
I try to pretend to know what I'm talking about with my pso and layouts. He got mad at me because when I started bowling I used the internet to look up information (how-to vids). Best advice is still talking to pso, a real human being with physical measuring tools and devices for pitch angles. Make sure they're certified and not just a Joe with a drill...
just a bonus bit: PAP 5 3/4 x 1 7/8 down
DNA - 2LS 4.5x4.5x4
Katana Assault - 2LS 4x4x5
Phaze 2 - 2LS 4x4x2.675 (was gifted, not redrilled, measured for my PAP)
Helios - DA 85x4x43
Fate - DA 102x3.5x35
Hustle Wine - DA 45x5.675x80
Zen U - 2LS 4x4x3
Why? bored, insomnia
Think you can find the ones that I tried suggesting?
Inches are so confusing holy moly
VLS seems a lot simpler, too me.
VLS & 2LS look they are as painful trigonometry.
Sorry for being overly fussy but it's actually "How to lay out..." Two words
Did you guys have to get a college degree to be able to understand all this?
Your last statement is very concerning. How could anyone understand anything in this video unless you went to a professional course on how to drill a bowling ball???
You guys don't explain anything you're telling us your doing! How would I know what type of ball to ask my Pro-shop I want if I don't understand anything you're telling me in this video???
Just a heads up, this video will make no sense if you are a complete beginner… i.e. me
Thumb who uses thumbs