Neil deGrasse Tyson on the Gender Spectrum
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- Опубліковано 15 лис 2023
- Watch the Full Podcast Here: • Neil deGrasse Tyson | ...
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Bill and Neil deGrasse Tyson on whether Neil is wrong about outer space, science vs. opinion, why Neil turned down a scholarship offer from Carl Sagan, how many astrophysicists exist in the world, Neil tries to change Bill’s mind about the youth of America, Neil’s Tonight Show experience, the gender spectrum in sports, why the Vegas Sphere would be the perfect TED talk setting, and the existence of aliens.
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What hes forgetting is that its not just hormone levels..men and women have different muscle fibers, hip angles and dozen of other physiological defferences. The number of possible spectra is likely in the hundreds if you wanted to make it really fair.
That's why testosterone-level classes wouldn't level the playing field. It's not like if my testosterone was at the same level as a woman's than it'd be competitive. I have stronger bone density, larger lung capacity, among other advantages.
Different gametes as well
he isn't forgetting. He is a dishonest prick. The kind of scum society could do without.
Fair comment. Some people seriously get triggered by this topic and just parrot whatever their favorite political commentator thinks. It’s nice to see people making valid points like this one and having a real discussion vs. “No you’re wrong and have no credibility.”
Gametes don't give an athletic advantage.@@cyclicozone2072
hes been losing credibility for years but this was the nail in the coffin
No kidding
Neil or Bill Maher?
@@1w72st spoken like a true douchebag
No such thing as a men’s league, it’s all open. NBA,mlb,nhl, ufc allow females to play in these leagues if they are good enough. Decades ago an nhl team had a female goalie.
@@1w72stNeil. 🙄
We’ve gotten to a level of insanity that pushed people into denial. This is such a crazy conversation to have.
How is this issue even relevant?
@@toddshockley it depends on where you live.
A good response to NgT's insane solution would be "Okay. Then since there are people who believe the earth is flat, let's change the science books to include that as a possibility so we don't offend those flat earthers."
Yeah like Trump supporters
@@Rocketman0013 sort of. MAGA is its own problem but this gender stuff feels like we’ve left reality. Both sides have gone batshit and that’s not a comforting thought.
Reminds me of that one line from Oppenheimer that said something along the lines of “scientists might be the smartest people but not necessarily the wisest.”
So true someone I so highly admired is so brutally flawed and so easily manipulated by social media. He’s terrified of being canceled yet he keeps canceling himself. He’s literally turning himself into the anti-hero and now he’s running with it instead of backing down learning that he was wrong. He’s standing in front of the door and moving a bookcase in front of it refusing to acknowledge the fact that you can see it in his face. His argument is trash, and then he uses the race card for his last Mary, hoping that you feel you will be canceled if you argue against it he’s terrified because now he has one group holding him in one political view, and the other one is biting at his knees telling him he’s wrong, and he can never be wrong. He’s too smart for that so he tries to out you. I’ll control the conversation or flat out. Call you a racist, he’s lost all credibility. He’s no longer the person I respected the person I admired, and the person I look forward to listening to he’s just a shell of himself who now I disregard as a crazy leftist, which is really upsetting to even think about, but Joe Rogan called this out years ago, and unfortunately he was right and I really didn’t think he was at the time
@@Joeyyyyyyyyy1987the amount of males who will dress as girls just to play sports so they can cheat is just zero. The reason this is even a topic is so that bigots can express their hatred at anyone who doesn't see the world as they do.
@@dr.graves5541that’s factually wrong but ok
@@JohnCampeaspoop show me a man who is soooo desperate to win at a sport that they dress as a girl, and you will be looking at someone that absolutely nobody can have respect for. Lots of girls have tons of testosterone, and regularly play in boys sports. Ya, I went out with a girl who pitched for the varsity baseball team in high school. Did she do it because she hates god? No, it was because she was that good.
That's why smart people are typically conspiracy theorists. Which isn't a good thing.
He is very ridiculous. Thanks Bill Maher for calling him stupid on this point
No wonder, that the crowd is cheering for the comedian, instead for the scientist on science stuff.
Neil knows who writes his checks.
Yeah bro, the pizza state. Lasers are watching you and theyre gonna make you eat bugs
Neil has empathy and isn't an old guy screaming at the sky.
@@andybarrett6472I will not eat the bugs and I will not live in the pods!!!!!!!!!
@@scoty_doesis it empathy that deludes people then lol
@@shettlock Also, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." is another fine example.
It's beyond problematic when a science educator cares more about being morally superior than about being scientifically correct
But he is scientifically correct?!
@@kasetoast8354yes, he definitely is.
@@kasetoast8354everyone in this comment section acting like they’re a professional mf scientist because Neil acknowledges and respects trans people 😭 LMFAOO
@@Uttermutt thank you, i thought i was going crazy
Its honestly wild that there are transphobes who still manage to gaslight themselves into thinking that any scientific fields support their views with all the research nowdays
Definitely a conversation with one side being far more respectful than the other.
I totally get the spectrum,it’s based on the way the individual feels and they have the right to feel anyway they want. However at some point the fact there are only 2 biological sexes matters with certain things, like sports. We can’t present biology is on a spectrum so we gotta be sure to differentiate between feelings and biology. Biological men in biological women’s bathrooms or biological women’s sports is not right.
According to Tyson it’s fair game, and most of far left liberals
Sports, yes, 100% fact shouldn't be there. Bathrooms are more fuzzy, though.
I mean, one of the problems is that genuine innocent trans people have to deal with predators taking advantage for their own gain and making their position harder to argue. And the other problem is that the state of transition itself for any given trans person is practically a spectrum as well. You have trans women who look like men in wigs; and then you have trans women who genuinely are almost indistinguishable from biological women unless you look hard enough. The former would definitely make a lot of women very uncomfortable in the restrooms; the latter probably wouldn't even be noticed. That's a problem that I don't think is going to be solved anytime soon. And someone might say, well, hey, just make all restrooms unisex; mmm, a LOT of people would hate that and it would create its own problems.. I mean, are we really going to force women and girls into the same restrooms as men just to satisfy ~0.5% of the population? So maybe someone might rebut, alright then, just make a third unisex bathroom for all trans or non-binary people or w/e. Well, that also has its own problems... imagine the construction and space costs of every building now needing a third restroom. It's just a big fat issue.
I personally think the most reasonable solution is to handle it on a case-by-case basis (is that what we're already doing as a society? I'm honestly not sure). If enough people complain about a certain somebody making others uncomfortable in a restroom, maybe because they haven't transitioned enough or they're being weird, then bar them from entering it and make them use the other restroom. On the other hand, if no one even notices one trans woman entering and no one complains, then it's very probably not doing any harm and so just let it be. It's not ideal and has its own complications, but imo it beats the alternatives. Maybe when trans individuals reach a larger share of the population, we can more seriously consider other alternatives.
@@ActionAlligatorWhat do you do when a woman walks in and exposes her penis in a womens room?
Certainly matters in healthcare. Male & female patients are biologically different and need different care. Why does no one talk about this?
Why is it that cis women get harassed and trans women don’t. Maybe it’s not being trans that’s the issue
I think Neil had that cancellation scare a few years ago for some sexual assault thing. Now he's gone SUPER woke to signal he's "one of the good guys" and to protect himself from the mob.
A lot of the reasons people go super woke on these current debates is indeed that: fear of cancellation. To be cancelled is is to be marked with a scarlet letter.
Lol... Being cancelled is something people talk about. Never really happens. People complain and wring their hands... No one is actually 'cancelled'.
@@Bito292 What do you call it when you lose your job and all of your lined up gigs because someone doesn't want to be associated with you for fear of the backlash? That hasn't happened a lot recently?
@@Bito292 Cancellation deniers are about as on-point as climate deniers. Both quacks.
Is the problem as severe as some people think it is? No. Is it a problem? Yes, definitely for some people.
Sure darling... The woke-lizard people are coming for you.
Ah Neil, I remember my first drink
The hormone ratio itself is not the problem...its the way the body develops under certain hormones... cant be changed
Wish Neil understood that. He should study science.
Yep. You can change your current soup of hormones all you want, but if you've already developed male-typical bone structure, for example, that ain't going anywhere. I don't understand why people are pretending gender and sex are more complicated than it actually is. It's one of the basic, simple things that we instinctively understand as infants. We know a man when we see one, we know a woman when we see one. And we sure as shit learn very quickly which one physically dominates, and it isn't even close.
Hip width contributes to athletic performance to an insane degree
@@jackworthington5205 Could we not just account for that and redesign the game to fit whatever we wanted? I'm not saying that's a good idea. I'm just saying we can launch people to the moon, we could figure out how to design a game for both sexes if we cared to.
So by your argument there is no problem with a trans person who started puberty blockers early enough to compete in sports.
aren’t the skeletal structures different?
There are tendencies like with hight but it varies greatly
Yes, but then the counter argument would be, "Michael Phelps and Usain Bolt have differing anatomy compared to their peers". Then someone responds with, "The physiological difference is dictated by the potential of the XY/XX chromosome."
Introducing estrogen or testosterone changes bone shape and density. Look it up if you don't believe me lol
@@Idkchangethislater ntroducing estrogen or testosterone changes bone shape and density. Look it up if you don't believe me lol
Hormones make sperm!? Not without testicles...
lol Neil is so off base here. Male and female goes way beyond just hormones. How about bone structure and density? It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that.
Different races also have different bone density. Why start caring about bone density now after so many years?
@@MS-tz1ml because a man would absolutely destroy a woman in a combat sport. It’s really simple.
@@ianarsenault Unless the woman had higher testosterone due to hormone therapy. So no, it isn't.
@@MS-tz1mlmale would still have serval advantages. Cardio. speed, power. Punch resilience..
If you really think a female can beat peak Usain bolt if they take test, Jesus Christ you are beyond help.
@@MS-tz1ml A man can have below normal Testoserone and still beat the shit out of a woman.
A woman with an abnormally high testosterone level or with intersex characteristics is not even remotely comparable to someone who lived their entire life as a man and then took some hormones and/or got some surgery. The playing field in sports is never fair. But the idea is that we equalize it to the point where everyone has a fighting chance. Trans athletes, especially in strength sports, literally sh*t all over that equalized playing field. Your natural gifts and genetics are supposed to be an advantage, not a giant trump card.
I really wish we could drop the morals and politics surrounding this and talk about the medical realities of introducing testosterone into a biologically female system/estrogen to a male system. Not to mention the RECORDED statistics in roughly 100 years of documented competitive sport and 50+ years of female competition that paints a picture so unbelievably clear that it could easily be utilized as the evidence of the immorality of this belief system.
I can sympathize with the reality of young trans kids feeling excluded and ostracized from sports and the ethical turmoil that can create (though I’d argue it’s a parent’s job to teach their trans child that they’re not in Kansas anymore). BUT I have zero patience for pretending we need to “respect the rights” of a grown man who decides he wants to dominate the female competition in the sport he never succeeded at playing with his true counterparts. I actually find it abhorrently anti-woman to the purest degree.
Feels like a scene from The Big Lebowski.
Hm. I don’t agree with his comparison to segregated drinking fountain’s because I don’t think that women’s rooms are kept in worse condition than men’s rooms or vice versa. If a lot of women feel that the bathroom segregation is done to discriminate against them, I would be open minded towards that, but I don’t think that’s the case because I think the whole reason why this is something we’re talking about it because of trans people. Also, I’m open minded toward Neil’s idea on how to handle sports, although I’m not sure if hormone level or weight would be the best way to do it by strictly. There’s probably a good number of factors that should be taken into consideration. These are complex issues we have to grapple with as we become a more complex knowledgeable society, and I’m open minded towards different ideas about what we should do.
Women fought for segregated space, to get away from men and now all a man has to do is declare himself a woman based on feelings to impose himself on hard fought spaces. It’s despicable, shame on Neil!
The point about weight classes is not to make it more enjoyable to the viewer, its to protect the athletes and to make the sport fairer. Trans athletes makes sport unfair for women
Well, perhaps the categories should be the same as in games? Just think about it. It makes sense to match people with other people with similar performance. I.e you keep a permanent ledger of past matches and performance of every athlete who competes on a professional level. Then, you split them into groups similar to how its done in games....bronze, silver, gold, platinum ,diamond. Bronze tier athletes match with other bronze athletes. If you want to move up in rankings, you need to defeat a certain number of higher ranking athletes. Heavy weights will inevitably move up to highest ranks, fly weights will move to lower ranks and if it happens so that some fly weight can defeat a few heavy weights, then they can move up to that category, regardless of their weight or size. This way, your opponents are determined by your performance, not by your physical attributes.
This is exactly how e-sports already solved the gender issue.
@@MrBrock314 Yup, but the only downside is that currently, in sports, all gold medals are equal, i.e flyweight boxing gold medal is equal to heavy weight boxing medal, so both matches would be gold-medal matches and thus would draw alot of attention, where as in e-sports style matchmaking, flyweight gold would be at best "silver rank" and heavy weights would be in some kind of "global elite" rank...and then , people wouldnt be that much interseted in silver rank matches anymore.
The upside however would be that this kind of matchmaking could be blended with the sports of casual people and therefore people would feel more connected to the sports. I.e silver rank would be the begining of what is considered "professional sports" but before that, you would have "bronze rank" that would represent highschool sports teams and various other hobby sports clubs. And before bronze ranks, you could have some even lower rank groups, that connect all the way down to elementary schools.
The fallacy is the implication that the biological sex divide is entirely hormones
Both hormones and sex fall under genetics. We are already understanding the fundamentals of a system where there is less duality and far more complexity. The hard thing will be proving it to the ideologues and pseudo science freaks.
Yep. Hip angle comes to mind.
It might be if you mean right back to conception.
I love watching this "scientist" lose every argument to a comedian.
How did he lose? Bill just is too dim to understand. And so are you.
@@littlemisssunshine4982bill is too arrogant to even try to understand. He has cis white male syndrome, he couldn't possibly be wrong about anything.
"Expression" doesn't make you that thing. I like to wear all black...good luck if I decided that I'm now black. Dressing and acting like a woman...does not a woman make.
Exactly.
His points are so ridiculous. People identify sex by secondary sex characteristics mainly. Men and women are different in almost every way. Different facial shape, skin, hair, body hair, body shape, muscle mass, bone density, height, hand size, everything.
They've even discovered gay men have different faces, and can be scanned to predict homosexuality with very high accuracy.
Neil DeGras Tyson... a 'man of science' who doesn't believe in science when he believes it will help his career. Science is an objective truth, not a career choice, Neil.
Well, in another clip from this pod he said that it's not the total lack of humor and insanity that's engulfed college campuses but Bill not adjusting his comedy to them that's the problem. Clearly, Neil just bends any way the wind blows just to stay relevant.
Yes, he's a total shit isn't he.
It's amazing an intelligent person like Neil deGrasse Tyson manages to be so incredibly wrong, ignorant and anti-science on something
he is great at his field of work. The problem is when we "assume" that just because someone excels in one area he/she/it has credibility in other area. Sure, as an inteligent person he is interesting to listen to, but outside his expertise area, I´d take what he says with a grain of salt.
@@supersueca1 It kinda reminds me of 2 times Nobel Price winner Linus Pauling who, at age 65, started propagating pseudoscientific nonsense about Vitamin C, claiming it could prevent and heal anything from colds to cancer. I wouldn’t put deGrasse Tyson in a group with anti vaccine people tho, because they’re usually telling their unscientific bs with malicious intent.
@@supersueca1 yeah like forcing actors and singers to gives us political insight when they have no idea on the subjects
Anti science... Like every male is born exactly like every other male. Some have tiny bones, and some girls are muscular and hairy, with more testosterone than Bill and Neil combined. There are literally million people who were born with different portions of both male and female reproductive organs, which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that being born with a biologically male centered brain and female organs between their legs should be considered normal. It is science that proves that everyone on the spectrum is normal. It's the massive lack of education, and the desperation of people in power that want to stay in power, that have the most vulnerable people on earth as targets for the most ignorant as a way of hiding what is actually going on.
@@hair4571 speaking of politics, lol, it's like politicians taking money from corporations to convince the ignorant masses to ignore science, and just expect less and less out of life, because the rich have it so hard... Kinda like how evangelicals try to use the bible, even though they have never read a single page of the book...
Dunning-Kruger in full effect out here
3:40 Neil was saying that ENTRANCE to the school was separated to boys and girls entrances but Bill was thinking that Neil was talking about BATHROOMS. Separating school entrance for boys and girls is indeed wierd.
I like how willing they are to argue. Love it.
*NEVER* has someone benefitted as much from affirmative action.
(If you disagree, please list a single accomplishment Tyson has to justify the level of fame he has. And no, just declaring that Pluto is no longer a planet is not an "accomplishment.")
Uhhhh...didn't he...nope, not him. What about when he...nuh uh, that wasn't him either. Hmmmm🤔🤔🤔🤔
@@speppers69😆
We're watching Pluto's karmic justice right now.
OK, I'll bite... Neil has spoken in previous interviews about his happenstance entry into fame(spoiler alert: he says that he did not pursue it). Neil has actually contributed quite a lot to the scientific community, and in recent years has expanded his impactful reach more generally in terms of education, and scientific literacy: "how and why" Science works(and why it's critical that everyone understands this!) - one of his biggest accomplishments, in my opinion.
Another spoiler alert: A marginalized individual does not benefit from affirmative action to the extent that they are given an advantage over someone of privilege. Affirmative Action levels the playing field.
Neil is a "scientist". His claim to fame is being a scientist but not talking like one, and having a way of explaining things on a level most normal people can understand and enjoy. I'll be the first to admit that I don't agree with probably at least 50% of what he says, but I'll also admit I have learned some stuff from the other 50%, or at least sparked my interest to study more.
It’s a shame that Tyson has become so strangely ridiculous about this issue. Stick to physics…
Going by that logic should Maher stick to comedy?
@@SailingSeignior Well, no, because (a) he's not just a comedian, he's a talk-show host, and (b) you're making an illogical equivalency argument re: a professional talk-show host...whose job it is to discuss such issues...and a physicist. But yeah, sure, Maher did bring it up with him...
NDT was always an idiot in every area besides astro physics and even in that area his research is pathetic to even an avg prof. You can find him in bad history, bad anthropology, bad science, and bad math subreddits.
@@bravo2zeroCAN Does Maher have academic expertise with biology and psychology? Should we all only discuss things related to our job? Should janitors only discuss cleaning toilets? Is that your argument?
LOL! (eye roll) You’re good at missing the point. Congrats and bye-bye…
2:06
Like "pretending like every baby is a jump ball...."
He nails it.
Good job, Bill!
Neil is a smart guy for sure, but he knows shockingly very little when it comes to hormones and the affect they have on the body. Stay in your lane Neil. Imagine a 150 lb man wresting a 150 lb woman. That match will last a good 10 seconds at best.
It’s « effect » not affect.
How much practice and knowledge of physics does each have? Because I'd bet on the 150 pound woman who knows physics every day over the 150 pound man who doesn't.
In science, we measure data, and we build models to account for as much of it as possible. If we find data that contradicts the model, we need a new model. Intersex people exist, therefore data defies the binary model, so we need to adopt a new one. It's not like the binary sex idea is an inherent given either- plenty of other organisms reproduce in other ways.
You like science? Dig human rights? Yeah? Realize that we're still learning about ourselves, realize that our models can be utterly wrong. Go meet a trans person. Find out. Live a little. Don't let your personal ick decide your views, only to pretend that it was logic that got you there.
So here’s the thing, I understand what you’re saying and I also like your polite and kind approach to arguing your point. I would counter with this though- truly intersex people do not exist in humans. There has never in history been a case of two fully functioning sexual organs. Secondly, yes other creatures reproduce in other ways, but we are discussing humans here.
Let me just close with this though- I do know trans people. I respect them and call them by the pronouns they wish to be called. I have a close coworker who is genuinely one of the nicest people I work with. I cannot say a bad word about them. However, I am a genealogist as a side gig. I study DNA among other things and there are differences in male and female at a genetic level that no hormone therapy or surgeries can overcome. I’m struggling w this right now with a client because she wants to trace her paternal ancestry and women do not inherit y-chromosomes from their fathers. I can only do an autosomal DNA test for her. No amount of her calling herself a man would change her genetics.
This is nonsense. Every person on earth with an intersex DSD is male or female. You clearly don't know what you're talking about, so don't try to pass it off as science.
Tyson spoke on this subject in many podcasts. Each time his tenor was thoroughly unscientific. Instead of saying "Let's study the facts and test our findings until we get to the truth" which is the essence of scientific thinking, he kept saying "Hey, why not just be kind and let trans people have their way?"
His exact words were "its still a frontier to be solved and we don't have an answer. I can suggest one but [idk if] it will work."
OMG. What does it do to *your* life if they _get their way_ ? Seriously?
As a rule do you generally avoid kindness?
@@nathalie_desrosiers That arguably depends on what "their way" is. You'd have to define that in a way that was comprehensive across a lifetime to know.
@@bennettnez4711yes at all costs
Where’s the full episode?
Good conversation
Its hard to take NDT seriously when he compares this to racism. But "he's thought it through more than you think." I guess it wouldn't take much to meet that threshold.
Hard to believe the ignorance.
you should try being less ignorant then
@@BrianR. This episode highlighted the fact that you being incredibly gifted in intelligence doesn't make you impervious to being ignorant. It's like a brain surgeon who doesn't know how to change a flat tire. Still a fan of Neil, but dude stepping out of his field hasn't been a good look for him. I thought Neil believing nuclear war and its fallout isn't a big deal was odd.
@@BrianR.I think it’s time for your puberty blockers.
A track meet might be better categorized by leg length
Bill didn't have to face all of these facts and factual debates before in his show. He invited some guests who made fun and said yes to his argument. That gave him a feeling that he is absolutely correct.
There is some truth in what you’re saying. Things are not black and white. His ego doesn’t necessarily make him wrong.
If those "facts" you speak of are "mEn cAn Be woMaN 🥴" than you are as lost as the moron he's interviewing...
In this case he's absolutely correct. Bill has what many don't. Logic and common sense. He doesn't play games to conform just to please someone.
@@ranndino Perfect example of Dunning-Kruger effect
Where is he wrong here?
Neil DeGrasse Tyson beclowns himself in this clip. He's a poor man's idea of an intellectual. He may know astrophysics but here he's trying to stay in the good graces of the woke mob and it's pathetic.
He doesn't really know astrophysics, truth be known. University of Texas flunked him for good reason. Columbia should be embarrassed they gave him a doctorate.
@@HopDavid I'm not surprised. This guy's a hack.
You are kinda wrong. You can see him get a little angry because whoever the bozo on the left is just brushes what he says away.
Neil even fuckin agreed with him at one point. However gender is a issue today, just as race was a issue 100 years ago.
Actually, gender and race have always been a issue. And it wont end with two idiots like us arguing over it.
Neil should have expanded his point on how hormone levels could be scientifically categorized for a separate intersex league apart from male and female.
Must’ve missed how that 28-0 halftime Super Bowl went down
3:39 what the.... gosh. Couldnt believe he made this a question!
I don't believe he is referring to bathrooms. He is referring to rooms or buildings where only men, and only women could go.
My Grandmother (Greatest Generation) had a term for cats like this: “An educated-idiot.” I agree, Grandma; God rest your soul…😅
That rhymes with illiterate - every new conservative Bill Maher fan.
@@toddshockleyDenying basic, obvious, provable scientific facts is stupid. Especially for a scientist.
Just like thinking your every opinion has to conform to your chosen political side even when your side spouts total nonsense.
My Grandad used to say "educated beyond their intelligence".
Not to say Neil isn't smart though. He's very smart, and I'm sure knows the true answer to the question at hand, he just refuses to admit scientific fact when it flies in the face of his political views.
@@ranndino The point here is yes, there are scientific facts. Sex is scientific, gender is not.
It is language and culture that makes the connection from male -> man and female -> woman. "Man" and "woman" are socially constructed and not real. (Not all animals that split into male and female sort themselves into men and women, or anything similar). You can say the same for things like money, democracy, law, religion - not real, collective "tools" that may or may not have value (more value for some people, less value for others).
Gender has more to do with culture, tradition and fashion that it does with science.
In other words, it has been created.
What you seem to be saying is you shouldn't be allowed to be *creative* with something that has been *created.*
So the question then becomes, why? Why is everyone required to buy into something that has been made up? And might not necessarily suit their interests?
PLUS science is not something you are required to obey.
@@communityrags6048there are plenty of things that are partially constructed, yet you wouldn't call them "fake" or "not real." Can't you name a few?
“I’ve been thinking about this more than you think I have.” Hahahaha
😉 we know, neil...
That definitely doesn't mean he arrived at the right conclusion. Lol
@@King-O-Hell That assumes there is a right conclusion. Often in science there isn't one.
@@MrBrock314often in science we don’t know one or don’t understand it yet but there is one. Science is not a matter of opinion
@@MrBrock314if the majority of the population say that Pytagoras Theorem is not true it still remains true. The triangle doesn’t care about our opinions
:57 there was never a person such as this. Dr Tyson believed propaganda. Where did he get this example from? Who was this person? Bell curve hypothesis was controversial when it was proposed in 1994? Just as Dr Money research is being called into qiestion.
I had to wrestle a girl in 6th grade in an open tourney. She was good but I beat her fairly easily. Then next match I had to wrestle her brother in the same weight class and he whooped my ass.
Why would anyone want to play sports anyway?
U must have sucked in little league, or ayso,lol
There is no spectrum guy
oh but there is.
Just as color is on the spectrum, gender can be placed on one. as spectrums are just made up human constructs.
Male on one side, female on the other. To be determined in the middle.
Damn, all these scientists have all these degrees and research they've done, but you wanna know what random YT yokel? You've convinced me with this one sentence that has zero substantial evidence to it. Congrats on being so special buddy
@@TheWanDoctorNearly every scientist will agree that there are biological differences between men and women
You know our society is fuckedup when you can't distinguish the comedian from the scientist.
It's not just hormones. Chromosomes are a scientific fact
That's it, we need to start calling these people "on the spectrum".
“I’ve spent more time thinking about this than you think.”
That’s great. I spend more time thinking about women than anyone on the planet. It doesn’t mean I know fucking anything about women.
Neil forgots all scientific principles when asked to discuss transgenders
The real issue here is that it's not so much about the health of the individuals as the health of the society.
Except that we're not in a position to make very solid judgements on what is or will be best for society long term.
Conservatism is a less risky position in that you're going "Well, we at least know that this worked in the past without huge problems."
Doesn't mean that it's optimal. But compared to reckless experimentation and half thought out ideas, it may "usually" be better.
Not to say that experiments are bad. But as with medicine, you don't have to just give a new compound to everyone when it's barely been tested on a very small group.
Bill sounds smarter than NDT lol
Sounding is not the same as beeing.
We were all screwed the moment psychologists started reaffirming their patient's psychological delusions for profit.
Speak for yourself
@@firstlast8258huh what you mean?
@@arkjag2991 Does it matter? They offered nothing to start with.
@@firstlast8258 That's literally what everyone does.
Bill is only half paying attention. Neil mentioned that the school had separate doors to enter the building for boys and girls, and Bill defends that by saying they pee differently? What does that have to do with with which door you enter the school from? Bill isn't interesting in actually understanding the other viewpoint, he's listening for details he can argue with. Nothing more.
And then he says he's worried about the health of the people taking hormones, while smoking. Yeah, I can tell he's real concerned about the health consequences.
Don't Anglo-Saxon white people also have say in the race debate because that is also a race? I find it weird that Bill said he finds himself removed from that discussion. I assume it's because he is white? Race equality affects everyone because everyone belongs to a race or is mixed race. Shouldn't we strive to include all races in everything?
I like Neil. But like too many people, he's cares too much about the individual's feelings.
Better than collectivism
@@LightningPuppet You need a good amount of both in a society. Some individualism is important because goals and aspirations are powerful. But you need a sense of community and self-sacrifice to run a society as well. This, by definition, means you literally CAN'T always get what you want. And not only that, but shouldn't.
What does that mean for our society? Hard to say but those two dichotomies are here to stay.
Neil cares about facts and an humanistic-philosophical interpretation of that facts. Bill is just rioting.
When I hear 🙉 Neil talk on this subject he sounds ridiculous. Sometimes being smart 🤓 means making sense. Bill's analysis was spot on. Common sense versus I.Q. . This doesn't mean I always side with Bill. When I heard Bill and Neil discuss Covid, I was more in line with Neil's thinking.
In this case, Neil is afraid of being cancelled 😂😂😂😂
The way he looks around talking about this says it all
Unless the "hormone cocktail" has been there since birth, I will keep my skepticism. I grew up with testosterone, which has given me 191cm (6'3") frame, wide shoulders and a lot of body hair. Changing cocktails wouldn't take these away from me and I would be absolutely scary to anybody on a women's team that hypothetically would have to face me.
Should we respect those who don't fall neatly into the "binary"? Sure. Should we scrap all the rules and rewrite sports and society to accommodate?
Thats why neil is saying to go by weight n hormone classes. If you identity as a women u still wouldnt be able to competr cuz other women would not be in ur weight n hormone class. Think u fool
It's baffles my mind that NDT is one of the smartest men on the planet yet Bill has to teach him about common sense.
He is smart in one area and brain dead in the rest.
@@juke1225no, he is just afraid to be cancelled lol 😂
Glad to see he's still sticking to the science even when his audience isn't
Huh? 😂😂😂😂
Tyson been drinking the Kool aide
Well he is black
@@Ocelot006 racist POS
you sound like you've been drinking too much Lysol.
On the money train
Yes. He is the only one here drinking the kool aid. You have not been influenced to think a certain way whatsoever no sir. You are immune to propaganda, congrats
So disappointed in Neil. He has ignored basic biology.
Next he will say the moon has decided it's made of Swiss cheese because it identifies this way.
He won't say that.
Not to mention that men have bigger hearts and lungs. Two things that massively increase performance over females. Neil has lost all credibility.
I don't really blaze anymore but would love to light one up and have a conversation with Bill. The woman NDT mentions who "has uncommonly high testosterone levels" and was disqualified, I am assuming, is Caster Semenya. What NDT does not seem to know and disingenuous media ignore is that ...
-he is male
-he has 5-alpha reductase deficiency
-the reason that his testosterone is in the normal male range is it's being produced by his testes
-he has fathered two children.
Classic example of the difference between book smart and intelligent
How about he just sticks to astrophysics and cap it at that?
Im not a fan of cancel culture, especially if a scientist says something that is objectively true. However in this case NDT is promoting something that is demonstrably untrue. He deserves to be cancelled unless he admits he was wrong.
Hes going to freak out when he heres the UK still has boy only schools and girl only schools and every sane person here is ok with it
as someone who went to a public school with both male and females.
It is kinda wild. I could see why people do it though.
You sold your soul Neil. Embarrassing.
Black science man is so silly now
Who are you. Nobody even know you Man. Don't be Racist. Also, you are Wrong. He is not black he is brown. Moreover a Human being. Okay
I agree with Neil's idea about hormone-level-based sports, regardless of the whole trans thing. I always thought sports should be based on weight class or something similar, hormone levels actually makes sense. I also have always though gender-specific bathrooms were stupid, mostly because, as a man, I'm SICK of having one working stall per bathroom, with walls covered in feces and urine, smelling like death, whereas women's bathrooms have 5 stalls with flower vases and pleasant scents. It's stupid and entirely unfair. One bathroom for all, the traffic flow would be so much more consistent, it would be taken care of much better (at least than men's bathrooms), and it would always have a changing table for single fathers, which many, if not most men's bathrooms do not. It just makes sense.
I used to be a cleaner, who cleaned men's and women's bathrooms at night. Women's public bathrooms are as bad or worse than the men's, with thousands of paper towels thrown on the floor. No idea where you're getting this information.
@@Jagonath must be area-specific, because that's not how it is here. I walked into a women's bathroom once, it had a flower vase, smelled nice, had pleasant lighting, and was pretty much sparkly clean. I then went into the men's bathroom, it literally had a piss trough lining the wall, with half as many stalls (because of the piss trough), and there was feces on the wall. It was a long time ago, over a decade, but I've been pissed off about it ever since. Another bathroom comparison, much more recently, I didn't actually go in it, but I asked my mom about it, apparently it has 5 stalls and is pretty clean, whereas the men's has 2 stalls, most of the time only one works, and only 2 urinals, so it's not even equal in terms of units. It also smells horrible and looks like a bathroom you'd see in a post-apocalyptic video game. Where do you live that public bathrooms are treated equally?
@@TheChaotiCake Could be local, definitely not my experience in Australia.
Girls bathrooms are more filthy. I think this account is trolling or is just incredibly dense
Why don't they get their own sports division like the wnba?
Well gender isn't on a spectrum, so there's that.
Who told you that?
But it is? Always has been! Biological sex however isn't
Dr. Debra Soh.@@SailingSeignior
@@Criner05 So if a different doctor tells you otherwise would you believe them?
She's a sexologist and neuroscientist. It depends on the doctor's credentials and work. I've read Dr. Debra Soh's work.@@SailingSeignior
Tyson lost me during the Covid era.
Listen at time 8.47 on Neil deGrasse " My Response to Terrence Howard " I agree with him, this is the way we should treat people
How come Bill forgot to mention that if the person went thru puberty as a male he likely has bones that are more dense, more dense muscularity and likely taller than someone who went thru female pubert? Not to mention more powerful lungs. Synthetic hormones given after the fact is not an equalizer.
His point about interesting matchups is completely ridiculous. Using that logic you could throw in lots of men into the women’s tennis matches and it’s still be equal and interesting matches but it wouldn’t be a women’s tournament.
Yes we know. They know. We know they know and they know we know they know.
That's not what he said it all. I swear the level of comprehension among people commenting on this video is below grade school level.
@@jonathanhenderson9422 It’s what he said.
@@pete5691 No, it's not. Maybe go back to grade school if your reading/listening comprehension is that poor.
@@jonathanhenderson9422 Yes I will go back to grade school for reading comprehension.
Neil raises good points and argues them better than most people holding his position. I wish Bill would have actually engaged with the arguments rather than laughing them off. Neil is trying to have a conversation, Bill isn't. Whatever side of the issue you fall on, I wish we could at least have the conversation.
his points were laughable.
@@jones2277 Maybe, but you don't convince anybody of anything by laughing at them
He is so out of his depth here. The difference between men and women is not just hormones. Did you know men have higher bone density, faster reaction times, over 60% more upper body strength, different shaped hips for running etc.etc.etc.?
@@Democracy_Manifest And, how many of those are crucial in strategic sports? Why are a good chunk of e-sports players women? Perhaps the problem isn't that men have the advantage in sports. Perhaps the problem is we designed sports with men in mind.
@MrBrock314 No its the simple fact that males have the advantage in strength, size, speed and power. Along with coordination, reaction time etc. Virtually any physical pursuits are going to incorporate those aspects in some form or another.
Where's Cornell West when you need him?
Credibility is lost.
*Tyson is so open minded his brain fell out*
😂
I miss Neil when he was not a political hack but rather a scientist
Both can be true.
@@ErikWithBrain Can be. Not is.
The problem is not that he is "political " the problem is that non political things get political.
He is an awful scientist. But a good communicator.
@@BismarkUtah Can you name any papers he is credited with? Thats right its 0. Read his bio. He admits he is not a good scientist. I also know awful NFL head coaches, doctors, and myriad of professions. Ask me how?
How long before Neil says "the world is flat" and "the earth is in the center of the universe"?
Imagine saying black and white bathrooms are the same as a men and women’s bathroom
I don't know why people misconstruct what NDT said.
He said "I don't have the answer for this". But that an idea would be to allow people in either male or famale team based in their "hormonal level".. Now i see a bunch of problems with that, like your current hormonal level, even if it is close to the one of a woman, after you went through puberty you already developed a stronger bone structure, muscles, etc..
So i disagree with NDT (i guess he is just trying to find a middle ground here).. but he is not saying that this stuff doesn't matter and that anyone should compete in whatever they want like some people seem to believe in the comments.
He proves Oppenheimer's point as to why scientists should not be world leaders and just stay in their lanes...
Scientists would make better leaders than what we have in office now.
And how well did that work out for Oppenheimer? Oh right, it didn't. The world leaders decided on genocide.
Even if they use a turn signal?
You really seem like a guy, that doesnt listen to science.
Science does not talk, it´s just an abstract idea.@@kasetoast8354
Bill's chair is missing 2 big wheels and 2 small ones.
he's turning into bill nye the science guy
Never heard of this guy , is he one of the finest minds of our time ?
That's what happens when you live under a rock.
@@BrianR. You miss all this brilliance on display , your w hole
I'm not a fan of Neil but it's insane that you've never heard of him.
@@dalnim4294 just looked him up . Is it junk science, Harvard was the 1st place to lock down . Is there life on uranus. 😀 Harvard is woke
Neil has thought this through more than you think he has.
"Thought", you say.
He must have thought real deep. lol.
Apparently he has since his understanding of the neurochemistry of gender identity far surpasses that of Bill Maher... Maher doesn't even know the difference between sex and gender; two concepts studied in two seperate branches of biology. Too bad Neil didn't call him out on that error too.
And just like that, Neil Degrasse Tyson squashes any remaining vestige of credibility. A scientist directly arguing against the SCIENCE.
This is the example of what a debate between a dinosaur and a scientist would look like. Its all in the mindset and the attitude towards a complex subject. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the people who think they can be birds because they want.
Niel identifies as a scientist.
🤣🤣
Neil deGrasse Tyson should just go work for Black Lives Matter at this point all he did in this interview, was trying to cancel anything bill through him by calling him a racist he’s lost all my respect the little bit. He had left is now in the toilet, and I flushed it on a pile of shit that is matter and matter-of-fact. I flushed it and it’s gone just like my respect for Neil are used to look up to him now he doesn’t exist
@@Joeyyyyyyyyy1987 That's a very binary look at the world and at people. People are generally complicated and they're reasonable about some things and completely unreasonable about others. You can see the most fact-based person in the world who goes home and talks about love lasting for eternity even though that's false from an evidence-based perspective.
You can see people highly dependent on their emotions who can follow logical steps like they were a toddler's reading book. People can do both.
@@Joeyyyyyyyyy1987 L take lmao
Bill Maher might be the only liberal I like