Antelope Discrete 4 Pro Synergy Core | There's SO MUCH MORE Under The Hood!
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2022
- Antelope sent us their new Discrete 4 Pro Synergy Core audio interface to review. Who knew there could be so many surprises?
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Ive had various clients using Antelope gear over the years. One notable one was the Goliath. Pristine converters, brilliant mic pre's, and abysmal software. The reason the client kept it was the sound quality. It only took 2 years for it to get the point of consistent stability. ..only. It's already in Antelopes discontinued pile.
Your integrity is second to none. Seriously, most channels would just sweep the bricking incident under the carpet, especially since it was resolved. Not you, guys. As always, great job!
Thanks so much Achilles!
really weird statement, how would you possibly have the information that ""most channels would just sweep the bricking incident under the carpet"?
@@Decenium cause I've been watching all the major ones for years and they almost never say anything negative about products they didn't pay for.
I have a Discrete 4 Synergy Core running on Thunderbolt to USB C on silicon mac. It works really well on Sonoma and it makes Pro Tools Studio 2024 rock solid. Thanks for the review 🍻
I work in a studio with Orion Converters all over the place, and also a Discrete 4 in a small production room. Working with the software is a nightmare. Too often doesn't recognize the same computer when disconnected, sometimes the "Launcher" can't find the interface, and all this sort of problems. When it's works tho, it sounds amazing.
Man I Use the discrete 4 in my home studio
When I tell you it took months to get it working smoothly, it’ll occasionally not connect to my pc, I have to power cycle it to fix that, other than that, it always works now and it sounds like a DRSAM
are the converter in the Orion better sounding then the converter in the pro synergy core
Moons gravitational pull was strong on this one. Your barber and the moon must be collaborating, I wonder if they have an affiliate deal with each other
LOL it’s true I’ve been discovered
James looks refreshing. I bet, Lucie might come for a vacation!) On, no! I said "bet" to a poker player?! Fold)
I’m in a call with her right this second, what odd timing!
@@the_newvoice lol
@@PresentDayProduction Haha) That's great!
Good Good! Young padawan! I wondering when we reach the limit of da conversion technology and bring everything to to consumer grade from the top-end already) I will wait and do nothing, of course, as always)
Antelope Zen Tour owner here, great overview of the Antelope. I couldn't possibly agree more with your conclusions.
Equally, I dispair on the same shortcomings, namely the encoder jog wheel. Mine is quite massive but often the performance of the jog wheel leaves much to be desired, turning up or down can lead to the opposite behaviour and it often takes a few up and down turns to land approximately where intended volume wise. The software volume control is just as glitchy and is my main if not only real gripe. I keep hoping that a firmware update will resolve this, but mine is now a legacy product. Note: Antelope provide equal customer support services for legacy boxes and are very prompt to help with any and all needs. The software is very robust, but I'm absolutely terrified to put the CPU online for fear that any changes to the current usable version of software will brick the unit. Sound wise, the Antelope pro grade boxes are just stellar, stable imaging and precise sound across the spectrum.
Mine came with some of the afx plugs, great sounding simple to use plugins, so much so I wish my box had the DAW bridge capability cuz I'd bin many plugins and only use the Antelope plugins for tracking and mixing, with the exception of restoration plugins needed of course.
Would I recommend it to anyone? Look, it's not for the innocent or inexperienced but for an experienced professional accustom to and knowing how to learn new applications, indeed. Great tools, a bit of a learning curve. Antelope interfaces are a bit like those carnival rides that have a height requirement "you must be this tall to get on ride" type products. You kind of really need to know your shit
Their customer support is excellent, very fast to resolve any problems (all problems will be software install note) including getting on your machine via Team viewer or similar app and just get it done.
I agree with Mark about the routing page, it's not intuitive enough though once you become accustom to the visual scene, it also becomes very straightforward, so Mark just get in there and get er done mate.
Great comment! Cheers!
Good review. I own the Antelope Orion Synergy Core. I bought it for its 12 mic pres. RME and UA did not offer this in this price range.
Installation was fiddly but now the software works absolut stable. The routing matrix makes the implementation of my outboard gear very easy. I don‘t use the internal effects. There are better plugins. The Edge microphone came free in a bundle. The microphone and mic simulations are nice but not good enough compared to my other mics. The sound of the Orion is excellent. Would I buy it again? Yes. Besides all the features it’s absolut stable. If not, I would sell it the next minute, regardless
Cheers!
I had been looking into the Studio Synergy Core interface for wireless control of mic pres (not to mention it having 12 pres) and still might get it, but it’s a bit difficult to sell an Apollo x8p to do it, at least until Antelope can incorporate either MIDI control as well (there’s a third-party app to do this with the Apollo), or incorporating Dante, but it would seem to me they’re comparable, and I’d say overall better, than UA interfaces.
Very constructive, informative and educating video. I am considering the : 8 Pro synergy core version.
That's the way to do a review.
👏👏
Thank you!
Would you pick this over the Apollo x4? Just tested out the twin x and liked it but am looking for a step up in conversion.
I have some antelope interfaces(zen, Orion Studio, Orion studio 2017 and the sc version) never had big issues. But i hate that they ditched the in box sample rate conversion. I will not upgrade bit switch to something else in the future. Also there are some weird gui issues for more then 2 years on the mixers (at least on the orion sc) but i love the sound of them
Daddy James back again with another video, finally
what about mixing purposes? can it be connected to a 5.1 speaker system? and how is the converters? Thanks
hello, (after correcting the frequency response with SIENNA, i.e. linearity / harman curve) what is the ideal dB value in addition to the bass? That is, after which you would increasingly lose quality by upsetting the headphones. I am referring to the right value to add on the bass to a headphone so as not to upset it, not to damage the drivers for example. and do not lose quality. Then are there headphones more suitable to undergo additions on the bass? based on transducers (dynamic or magneto-planar or drivers
Everyone should do their due diligence on this brand, there are some real horror stories out there.
yeah to me its seemingly as unreliable as say Blackmagic, weird premium brands that just dont really have the full package under control
Note that the outputs are not the same. Antelope put lower level DAC chips on the line out and headphone out. The spec indicated.
Could you please expand on that?
How it compares on sound with the Clarett that your studio had?
Awesome and honest review (also very funny 😄). Your reviews should be used by the manufacturers to improve their products.
Thank you!
Almost got the Discrete 4 but after researching all the issues I ended up getting a RME Fireface. Any issue I would find with RME seems to be sorted right away.
once you understand the Total Mix FX routing it is likely you'll be a happy camper. I despise Total Mix FX, but it's powerful and gives you the lowest non-analogue-monitoring-latency for recording that I know of (3 samples) - if you monitor with your interface without passing through the DAW. Another 20 samples get added (in total) by AD and DA-converters and finally a maximum of 7 samples for turned on DSP options and 3 samples for the FPGA. This results in an overall latency of ~0,7 ms at 48 kHz. And ~0,33 at 96 kHz according to Matthias from RME. Just out of curiosity: What Fireface did you get? Some have DSP options, some don't, but all that do also have dynamic-dsp options (the Babyface-interfaces don't).
I've been using RME for >10 years now. The software never crashed. In >10 years I had
@Wayne Brown The free mic? Not very good, and is not free. Antelope pres are not better than an Apollo unison interface and no driver problems, better durability, DSP, resale value etc... Tell me when it stops working any day, not a happy day at all. About RME, people go nuts on great drivers, that comes from many year ago and people still think that other brands don't have good drivers, actually there are great interfaces with great drivers and very low latency at lower prices. Two brands that cost a lot at the end of the day, one with terrible drivers and the other one very overpriced.
Hey Daddy (yes I already hate myself for using that!), remind me why I spent almost the same money on a UAD Apollo Twin?
This seems to be a really nice piece of gear, thanks for showing.
GREAT REVIEW! I do have a question, can the USB and TB3 can be connected and used on 2 different computers but NOT at the same time? I ask cause i produce everything on my Mac but i do have a gaming rig PC and would like to be able to use it the interface on each separatly without disconnecting any cables. Any info on this would be greatly appreciated!
I don’t know for sure but my intuition would tell me yes, as long as only one computer is powered on at once.
I have the Discrete 8 synergy core and whilst it’s a very sleek and sexy looking device, I’m still having some compatibility issues despite numerous tech helps. The preamps are very neutral and sound amazing but I no longer use most of the plugins due to phase issues with the eq and compressors. The guitar emulations are really excellent. I have the edge solo and it’s fab. So in conclusion, excellent preamps, converters etc, some poor plugins.
Phase issues? Are you sure? I have the same product since release and never experienced any problem in this reguard. I just had driver issues due to my old 2014 mobo but reverting to 6.8v solved the problem thanks to support help and I get to use all the recent software updates by just unchecking an item in the settings menu on the launcher. Are you sure you're not having the fader on the virtual mixer turned up while sending audio from the daw? Because the roundtrip latency will overlap daw sound with the monitoring one
@@scacchomattho if you place two EQ’s (example) side by side in your plug-in chain you get a weird phase variance. Check out Paul Thirds video for more info
@@scacchomattho ua-cam.com/video/Y5cL0mVNcXg/v-deo.html
@Wayne Brown Never experienced nothing of what you're talking about. I'm telling you, if you route from the daw into the mixer like you would normally do for external hardware, you won't have any problem of phase shifting due to latency except if your daw lets you use a mix knob like the external audio effect plugin from ableton live or pipeline from studio one etc. Even then, if you enable the automatic delay compensation, everything will be synced. I do this every day at work, there should definitely be something wrong with your settings
Awesome video 👏 👌 👍.. I wss wondering how good are the headphone amps? I've heard that zen Q's headphone amps aren't powerful enough so I was wondering how the discrete 4 pro's hp amps were.....
They’re pretty good - we didn’t have any issues driving headphones of pretty much any impedance with them
@@PresentDayProduction alright thank you.. I really appreciate it....
If you use your interface for recording, monitoring latency is very important. Now you said the word "latency" multiple of times, yet I didn't notice you saying what the actual latency when monitoring (what you are recording, while you are recording it) is. I quickly checked Antelopes Site but all I found was an indirect and unprecise answer: "The inclusion of Antelope’s Synergy Core processing allows the company’s own effects to run directly on the interface itself in real-time, with latency low enough to support direct monitoring and recording through them" - but I'd like to be the judge of that myself. Most interfaces do not support anything close to 0 latency monitoring - maybe with the exception of RME: 3 samples for the digital path from in to out (TM FX) Another 20 samples get added (in total) by AD and DA-converters and finally a maximum of 7 samples for turned on DSP options and an additional 3 samples for the FPGA. This results in an overall latency of ~0,7 ms at 48 kHz. And ~0,33 at 96 kHz according to Matthias from RME. So my suggestion would be to include this information in following reviews. It is very important in music-production (depending on the player and the instrument of course).
Furthermore a little sidenote: If you get the hardware for free, the review is by definition not unbiased - especially because you plan on using it. I know you THINK it's unbiased, but it is not. It's almost never unbiased (even with people who don't get to keep and use it) but once one personally profits it can't even get close to being unbiased. You can try not to let it influence you, but unless you are the Buddha to come and truely enlightened you and your judgement is never really free from such influence. If you think you are, you are fooling yourself.
I appreciate the honesty about the multiple crashes and problems you had with this audio though. Alas honesty does not eradicate bias. Honesty is what enables a truthful communication of whatever the person thinks. But if the person is already knowingly or unknowingly biased, the biased information will still be passed on.
Thanks for your comment. What I’m trying to get across is that even though we were given the interface, we will always be honest in our reviews. Hence still mentioning the software instabilities etc. We have been given items in the past where we absolutely slated them - so definitely not going to say things are good just because we were given it
@@PresentDayProduction You are welcome! I know what you're trying to get across, but I am a pain about precise communication. I made this a side-note on purpose, because I wasn't really offended by it (other than with "professionally priced"). My main point in this comment was about monitoring latency while recording. I'd incorporate that in such reviews! Enjoy your day!
I appreciate the review and the depth... but anyone know if there's a simple A/B Monitor switch for seamlessly swaping between sets of monitors ?
Nice review daddy!
Antelope should quickly solve their Thunderbolt connection, especiallt TB 4. The problem lies with their TB driver which doesn’t fullt support TB4 at the moment.
This is a cool looking Desk in the back! Can you tell us more about it?
Cheers!
It’s a custom-built handmade desk we built to make our UA-cam studio look cooler! :)
It’s big enough to support 3 computer monitors, which is perfect for me as I need that many for video editing, and it’s got a total of about 30U of rack space on the sides and front bottoms.
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vWTNd7iR2hy5Kj31qvDCG8qMrnnsAjNL
I have the Orion Studio Synergy Core with a lot more IO at over double the price. It sounds great... but... had I known how flaky and convoluted the software was going to be I never, ever would have bought it. Sometimes the launcher can't find the interface. Often the launcher wants me to "log in" to my account before it will do anything, except it tells me I've entered the wrong password at least twice until it finally decides that yes, maybe, having typed the same password 3 times that IS actually my password. I updated the software the other day and then installed some new (non Antelope) plugins which then resulted in 5 instances of the control panel appearing every time I booted Logic. As for the built in FX and modelling mic - I have both, but haven't used either, as trying to work the routing out means I lose the will to live long before I've got anything working. The other day I actually had to unplug it and plug my UAD Apollo back in at the start of a VO session as I couldn't get the microphone signal to come out of the headphones. Wishing so much I'd bought another Apollo or a Focusrite instead. Hey ho, maybe one day the software will be improved. Mind you, the last update 3 days ago crashed, so probably not.
One button one function - pretty pretty please all future hardware design people.
Agreed.
It's really all about design.
My ADI from RME has few buttons, but it is so damn easy to use I never feel issues with that particular system.
I think the Antelope lacks more knobs than buttons.
J'ai acheté un bundle discrète 4 + micro
Antelope edge Duo. L'expérience sembla pas mal, mais à chaque session l'interface se m'étais en sécurité. Je l'ai envoyée en Réparation depuis la France. Aujourd'hui, elle continue à s'arrêter de manière soudaine. C'est énervant. Je suis obligé de travailler avec une autre interface lorsque je fais des sessions avec des artistes. Je suis plus serein avec ma deuxième interface de chez UAD. À ce jour, mon seul regret est de ne pas mettre rapidement fait rembourser. C'est embêtant vu le prix.
4 headphone outs feels like a weird choice. Is it easy to run separate mixes to each headphone out? The control system looks a lot like TotalMix.
If you can get your head around the patching system it’s pretty flexible
@@PresentDayProduction From what I gather from the video, I'd have to patch a mix to a bus in the DAW and send that out via the routing matrix to one specific headphone out. Doable but not intuitive.
I have the previous model and while it sounds really well, if I knew what kind of experience I'd had, I would have not bought it.
But for my use case, as a secondary interface where I basically only use the preamps and nothing else, it works great anyway.
Looks to be as flexible as RME's totalmix but with better user usability. Can I ask where it's made? Is there a "Made In ...." stamp on the unit? This matters to many of us.
it's made in Europe
In Bulgaria to be percise
@@PitlordWeedsmurph Cool!
Maybe one day they will come up with a Thunderbolt driver that actually works with Thunderbolt 4 without causing the blue screen of death. But no hurries, And afx2daw doesn’t work on usb. The sound quality is great though….
AFX2DAW works on USB with the ZenGo and ZenQ usb variants
Evening all
wow
how the hell do i get to my routing page???
I know you're trying to distract me with this fancy interface, but I gotta ask the real questions...
What are those speakers in your room, James? :O
Quested Q115, serial #001!
The first ever pair of this model of speaker built by Roger Quested in 1984 ish.
The subs are ATC 300’s.
@@PresentDayProduction Wow, very saucy.
If I'm ever the position where I get to build a studio with money no object, Quested is definitely the first speaker brand I wanna try.
Secretly a bit of a Zimmer fanboy. :P
Thanks for sharing!
Can you use a hot sauce with the interface?
You can indeed!
I like the part about johns huge organ.
Everyone needs to put a solid PAUSE on buying anything Antelope right now. Marcel James (former 14 year engineer from Antelope Audio) is laying down the ugly hammer on all of the hidden software and hardware problems Antelope has been having over the years AND all of the negative social media comments they have been deleting. Marcel has one video out on UA-cam already. I have the Discrete 8 Synergy Core and for the last two years had multiple software issues and the LED panel text is now pixelated with dark orange and white text.
Software is the problem of antelope. That's why I'm still stay with UA
can you rack it?
There currently isn’t a rack kit that we are aware of
5 min in and im still waiting for you to tell me what exactly makes this device "pro", there is a discrete 4 synergy core and its been out for a year or 2 now, its about 1/2 to 1/3rd the price of the new pro version.....but what makes the pro so much more expensive and is it in any way shape or form worth that cost?
how can you not compare the the two in a review.......
Because we were not given the original for the review, only this one.
It is not just you. Antelope software, hardware, and drivers are unstable and not a good investment.
I tried Antelope and the software downloading setup is a joke, also had issues, I sent the unit back without regret. I cannot say I have heard many good things from other producers about the company.
Reading this makes me RAGE sympathetically. I plan on going RME PCIe next. No bull, just fast connectivity through AES, that will be reliable forever
@@dougleydorite I went with the MADI FX card and wouldn't want to be without TotalMix now. Set up was incredibly easy, it's the most flexible ecosystem I've encountered and not once has it ever gone wrong.
@@squoblat good to know! I’m trying to escape the UA eco-system before they take more of my money
RME user here. I’ve had issues but nothing like what Antelope put you through. I really don’t get them as a company.
Edgy shots... edgy gear... outlying edge cases... will an end to this edging never come (it’s probably something to do with the fiddly-to-handle knobs)..?
This mimics/echoes most of the other Antelope reviews I read... impressive enough kit, when working, but enough odd crashes & incompatibility surprises to make me nervous about relying on it. Anyhooooo, unless you’re recording bands and/or guest artists, I don’t see the real need for lots of on-board DSP these days... so I’m probably sticking to my plan of waiting for a decent autumn sale, then grabbing an Audient id44 MK2... a much simpler proposition, true... but then I’m a much simpler kinda bloke.
Daddy
I am not a professional user. Just an amateur musician. So my opinion can be biased.
Is it useful nowadays to invest money on a DSP equipped board? You get high price, and a marriage to DSP driven plugins. If operating system changes, you need to wait months before upgrading because DSP interfacing on software is a nightmare.
See UAD: they started to sell simple audio boards and a subscription mechanism to get full working plugins as native computer software.
If I see speed of performance changes on simple MacBookPro things I have an immediate answer: tell the DSP guys they are dinosaurs
Depends on how the deal works.
If the brand is reliable, then sure. It's a lot cheaper than actual hardware and sounds practically the same (haters gonna hate that, but that's what FPGAs do; they emulate hardware on a hardware level, it's actually simulation, not emulation).
If you can just download the DSP software and install it whenever you want, then great, but Antelope wants you to always be online (ot at least once every so often) for them to allow you to use the DSP stuff, so if they go bankrupt or something, say goodbye to your plugins.
it is a nightmare, software implementation feels like a crappy beta at most. it sounds great, but it is just too much of a hassle to operate, i used the discreet 8 interfase in a friends studio and the experience was less than ideal, and that is when the interfase is doing the best job it can! stay away from antelope, sweetwater stopped selling those for a reason
antelope software is universally trash, that's given
Never buy Antelope.
I would not recommend Antelope to anyone.
I bought a Zen tour - it bricked itself as it tried to update it's firmware, and then after much mucking about antelope told me that it can't be used via a usb hub - funny, never had that issue with the rme... I had to use a separate Mac to unbrick the Zen, and then it finally worked.
After that I switched to thunderbolt from USB. At which point I found it running at a different sample rate to pro tools on multiple occasions.
It was swiftly returned. Bag of shite. I doubt your experience is unique.