FREE - I want to give you 45+ Project Ideas That Sell & Show You How to Make Money Woodworking For FREE: www.skool.com/731woodworks Click "Read more" to see all of the tool links. Watch Next: This Will Change Table Saws FOREVER! ! ua-cam.com/video/FwQ43CLtHDg/v-deo.html Tools in this Video: Kreg MortiseMate (Acme Tools) - acmetools.pxf.io/XmxDeg Kreg MortiseMate (Tool Nut) - thetoolnut.sjv.io/LKPbNZ MortiseMate Extra Bits and Tenons - acmetools.pxf.io/jeWoL5 JessEm Pocket Mill Pro - jessem.com/products/pocket-mill-pro-loose-tenon-system?srsltid=AfmBOopwK6D5SV_dJJROGThZctMCI82xg1zF4oM5rEVh78ey1E49XcMg&sca_ref=5295393.CFeeU2Axhv Bessey Gear Clamps - amzn.to/4hZ1zuo JessEm Pocket Mill Pro - acmetools.pxf.io/DyVXNd Festool Domino - amzn.to/490ul9R Festool Domino Tenons - amzn.to/3UZmPGm Router Jig (Domino Killer) - ebay.us/ZKynLn Festool Dust Extractor - amzn.to/3YVj5XH Dust Right Hose Adapter Kit - amzn.to/3AS5AjC Milwaukee Drill I Used - acmetools.pxf.io/m50WPD RYOBI Drill I Used - homedepot.sjv.io/WyDm5X Phone TriPod I'm Using (expensive but worth every penny) - amzn.to/3NbM8kp Tri-Pod Adapter for Phone -amzn.to/4gTXQxp I get commissions for purchases made through some links in this post. It helps the channel and costs you nothing extra. Greatest Free Gift I've Ever Received: story4.us/731Woodworks Join the TUBAFOUR NATION to get exclusive access to member only behind the scenes videos, member only livestreams, exclusive discounts, and other cool member only perks! www.patreon.com/731woodworks See the full list of tools and supplies I recommend on my website: www.731woodworks.com/recommended-tools Some other useful links: Daily Tool Deals on my website: www.731woodworks.com/tool-deals Subscribe to our email Newsletter to get new content alerts, sales, and more! mailchi.mp/7e44c16eefdc/731-woodworks-email-newsletter Easy to Follow Build Plans - www.731woodworks.com/store Outlaw's Board Butter - So Good it Should be Outlawed: www.731woodworks.com/store/boardbutter
I said this before, best alternative to dominos are dowels. Same strength, just different look. Get Dowelmax and you will get speed, accuracy and ease of use including 45 miters. There is no need to mimic domino and get a clumsy solution.
I use the updated jessem dowel jig and think it’s great for the money. For hobbyists the $1,100 difference between dowel jigs and domino is better spent on other tools.
Not a Domino killer. Not even close. The Domino is for rapid and precise joinery which can be applied at angles and not just when you can clamp the thing down on a workbench using their support. Get the Domino or use something like the DowelMax. I'd rather use the DowelMax doweling jig than either the Kreg or the Jessem "Domino killer".
As soon as multiple set screws get involved, you know it's the same old story.. another alternative that just doesn't offer the same level of ease-of-use, precision, and repeatability.
Looked up the domino/Kreg tenon pricing, for the 6x20x40mm/1.5" tenons on both, you have to buy 2.5 boxes of Kreg to match the $31 box of 190 Festool and save $4. For the big 1140 box of Festool for $119 you need 15.2 boxes of Kreg for $167. JessEm's Tenon Stock is sold at 6 12" lengths for $10 you have to cut for yourself at 8 1.5" per stick, which comes to about $40 to match a 190 pack of dominoes and almost $240 to get 1140. So if you're looking to buy loose tenons in bulk, Festool is actually going to be a better deal for better fitting tenons. Another option on this is that Woodpeckers has a mortising base attachment for plunge routers currently on sale for $170. That plus a whiteside 1/4sh/6mm spiral upcut bit comes to ~$200. Takes a little more setup, but does the same things.
The Wood Whisperer did a review as well. He found out that Kreg and Jessem worked together on this. His main gripe was the stability that could cause some slop. Not a big deal with the weekend warrior but maybe not for precise projects.
Cool thing. Just checked prices over here in Germany. €400 - on Black Friday Sale!!! I think if I really need such tool, I will go with the real Domino :)
Reading reviews before commenting, I find that I'm with the majority. 300 bucks of silliness. Tools have followed the kitchen tool game. When does the Veg-o-Matic come out?
Having had a Domino for years this looks like it will be a lot slower creating the mortise. This will probably be a good solution for a weekend woodworker.
I wait for Makita Domino, Festools Domino patents expire 2024 , so competitors should be on market with own models 2025. Lemello biscuit jointer was only copied by Makita , Bosch and DeWalt from big brand names
Not even I think. It's easier and cheaper to just make a router jig. I'm convinced 731 woodworks stopped woodworking a long time ago and just craps out 3 videos a week with products he hasn't really used.
They worked with jessem for this, I personally almost bought the jessem a couple of years ago but my friend talked me into just getting the domino. He had spent all this money on this jig and that jig but wasnt happy until he had got the domino.
The question isn't why companies keep trying to sell joinery methods that are worse and more expensive than dowels, but why people keep falling for them.
I'm a roofer by trade, but do a lot of DIY carpentry at home. This looks like most other Kreg tools in that it's geared more for guys like me, not your trade pros. That said, it looks great for MY purposes. Thanks!
Nice jig but are "Kreg-Ino's better than appropriately sized dowels? I use a dowel jig and it is quick and easy. Plus, dead-nuts accurate. This seems unnecessarily complicated and time-consuming.
Love your stuff Matt! Truly appreciate your videos, have binged watched tons of them and put them on when working in the shop. Learned a ton and really appreciate the tool reviews , they really do help me pick up gear. Thank you sir !
If the bit is a friction fit in that sleeve, isn't there a chance for the cutting head to just "spin" in place? Curious if this happened to you at all? Thanks for the review. Love your channel.
For bringing the tool to the work, cant you you take the Kreg to the work and just use it upside down? Basically just placing it on top of the work piece. Or you can use it in the upright position and just clamp it directly to the work piece?
Was able to test this a couple months ago. there is a set up process and you do have to force the handle side to side when drilling to acivate the drilling step, It's not perfect but it is a cost effected way for beginners to make floating tennons without purcasing a Festool Domino.
I would have had all the tenons cut with the festool by the time you cut two with this thing. I’m not a festool fanboy but i completed jobs to get a couple of their tools and the track saw and domino are pretty great
I could see myself using a small setup block(s) on both sides of the little indexing pins for consistency, but you're right that ideally it would keep everything centered and adjust both sides at the exact same rate. Still, to save $1,200 it seems very worth it.
As a DIYer I still spent the money ont he DF700 for the efficiency and ability to use it like a 500 (with the Seneca kit).. it just seems like its going to always be much faster, easier and produce the best quality mortises for joinery.
What do you think about good old-fashioned biscuit joiner I think it works relatively well for everything I do as much as I would like to have the domino
Allen Key Storage: Get some rubber or plastic tubing that the key fits snugly in, then drill a hole in one of the edges of the plywood base big enough to accept the tubing and deep enough for the key to slide all the way in. Finish up by using CA glue to secure the tubing and Bob's your uncle.
I saw this in person at the Boston Tools and Tailgates events in the Woodcraft stores. I liked the almost all metal composition of the tool and the whole setup (great to clamp to your bench). I have a dowel jig but I look forward to adding this to my shop until I save up for a domino.
I have a JessEm Zip Slot Mortise Mill and Tenon Joinery Tool 08200 that I have had for years that works exactly like this "new" idea from Kreg. Have you seen one?
I wonder if dedicating a $17 corded drill from Harbor Freight would speed up the cut time? I have one that spins at 3000rpm verses the 600 or 700 that a cordless drill runs at. Also the 6mm bits are the same size I run on my CNC, I wonder if they would work as replacements?
Great review and tool....BUT, Ryobi biscuit joiner is only slightly over half the cost and does the same thing (seems like a better option). I will say, this does look to be able to handle smaller joins, but not sure.
The JeesEm Pocket Mill Pro is on sale on their website for $319.00. I think it's a better choose. I have had mine for over a year, and it works great without all the adjustments. Kreg does make good products, too.
Thanks for showing us this. My question is, if the bit slips out of the shank and you push it back in, when you drill the hold, wouldn't the bit spin or slip so it would cut?
@@edmundhayes7982 A drop of Loctite 620 or 680 will lock the bit in place if slipping is an issue. I would think Kreg would have done this at the factory.
With the festool domino, you can bring the mortiser to the project. Can you do the same with this tool? Also, can you do a speed test where you time how long it takes to cut say, 10 mortises with festool vs kreg?
Great video! 🎉 99% of all woodworkers don’t know about this Game Changing Domino Killer!! 😂 But for real, this is a great option for the DIY/weekend woodworker wanting to use mortise and tenon but lack the budget to spring for a Festool.
Here's a tip for either this product or the Domino. You can make your own custom width tenons on your thicknesser. I did this on a breadboard end table top and 1st time success. Works a treat 🇦🇺
a little locktite would keep the end cutter in the shank !! maybe scribe matching depth marks on the side screws at least??? also a screw knob to raise and lower the table might be nice!! Have Fun
Might be great for casual hobbyist if you don't care about speed. Festool is geared toward pros for whom time is money. More options with the domino in that you are bringing the tool to the material. Think about how you would join plywood panels for cabinets and you can see where the domino is superior.
Couple of ideas, can you maybe reach in with a set of calipers and measure the stops to get them centered? Couldn't see well enough in the video. And I've already got a couple of Craig clamps that work awesome. It looks like they would be good for this tool as well. Just added another tool to my Christmas list! Thank you
I use the DF700 XL and use the tight/tight joint and it always lines up perfectly. I have never needed a loose fit with clamps. I wonder what the point of a loose fit is only to have to clamp it and wait for glue to dry. Seems to defeat the largest benefit of the Domino.
This looks like a very cool tool, but for now I think I will stick with my dowel jigs. One alteration that I would probably make is make a duplicate base out of good quality wood or MDF , maybe 1 inch thick then cut grooves in it that would accommodate the Micro jig clamps. This would make the base nice and sturdy so you wouldn't have to screw it down to your bench.
It looks like there may be some quality control issues. I saw another review where the mortices were too large vertically, which causes issue when aligning panels.
Rumor has it that this is a joint venture with Jessem. Supporting that is the Jessum unit is on clearance sale. That said, and there is nothing wrong with that, this is a definite downgrade on the Jessem unit. First the horizontal boring action will eventual yield holes that are sloppy in width. The drill bushsing will just end up being worn out and the bit will wonder all over the place. Or the bit shaft will wear out and slop around in the drill bushing. The Jessum unit the drill action is vertical, much better design. You made it clear in a very kind way the thing is super fiddily at best. It sounds like one would get totally frustrated trying to set this thing up. And going from tight to loose lateral fit is just not a repeatable accurate process. Yes it is way less money then the Domino, but seems real janky. This is a great advertisement for why you should just save up foth the Domino, or just use dowels, way less to go wrong. IMO
Seems like a good alternative but I feel like they should have a built in automax clamp somehow above the dust port so you don’t have to worry about a clamp for the unit and another for the workpiece.
if you make a pair of spacers with a step in them will they fit between the carriage and the end stop? insert the big end and adjus the left screw stop. flip and adjust the other stop. Surprised they did nomake a plastic C-shaped tool or little keys on a ring
As someone that has the entire Jessem loose tenon system this the same with worse tolerances... After about 700.00 (pocket mill+workbench +small and large face joint jig and 6+8+10mm bits) I'm pretty disappointed and wish I just saved my money for the festool.. between line lat out, set up, clamping and drilling it's incredibly slow.. it's also very finicky and will often flex in the pressure of the end mill cutting the wood to the point that the bolts that hold it onto the clamping station will loosen often... Even fought for a replacement and got the same results... And if you don't fully seat the jig all the way forward with a 10 mm bit it will barely touch the view finder and will shatter the carbide end mill.. even if it's off just .002 inch.. I've used it for several projects of all different types of joints and it's just a frustrating piece of equipment. But it makes a lot tighter joints than this at least
It might be worth if you are mounting it to a workbench, to route out a spot, so the jig is inset to the bench so you do not have to shim up for bigger pieces.
I wouldn’t say it’s ridiculously overpriced. It’s a tool made for professionals who can afford the best of the best and do woodworking to make a living. Theres lots of cheaper options for the hobbyist like Dowelmax or Jessem dowel jig.
But why though? They have novel ideas and a corner on the market. Until their patents expire (like they have on track saws) they should be able to capitalize on their ideas and products. If you are making money from your tools a Domino isn't all that expensive. If you're a DIY/weekend warrior you aren't their target audience.
Love your videos. Occasionally use the links to buy stuff. Just saw the "+45 Free Project Ideas"... yeah one of the things you talk about is time when doing projects... the time and effort it takes to get the "free" plans doesnt make them free. I usually dont do "free" stuff cause of things like this. If its free there should be no strings attached. Well maybe one string (mailing list or some such).
getcha a nice set of ball end hex drivers, and you will have something that is easier to use, and nice enough that you'll keep track of it and not lose it.
You guys answer your own question every time! Asking whether its a Domino killer and then making a direct comparison showing that all these shortcuts come up short next to the Domino. I think for a lot of DIYers the cheaper versions will work, but it looks like if you're a pro, you're just better off with the pricier Domino.
No. A mortise and tenon gets most/all of its strength from the glue joint formed on the wide/long side of the tenon and mortise. Think about a 4" wide, 4" long tenon slid into a 6" wide, 4" deep mortise. 1/4" thick tenon. You have 32 square inches of glue surface keeping the joint together. The little 1/4" sides are 2 square inches total. One sixteenth of the faces (16+16=tenon faces, 1+1=edge faces, 2/32=1/16th). Is making something one sixteenth stronger material? Usually not. And with all mortises and tenons and Dominoes, the tenon or slip tenon is always a tiny bit shorter than the full depth of the mortise so the ends never are glued. Having the slip tenon/Domino flop side to side in the mortise does not materially weaken the joint once the glue dries.
JessEm helped them with this but theirs the drill is above so the weight of the drill doesn’t affect it and make it more difficult like the Kreg. Plus the drill weight starts to pull the tool from the wood so what’s that going to look like after a lot of use. The plywood should’ve been metal and a stronger connection to mate the tool and base together. Not being able to do angles is not great either. Hopefully they iron out the bugs and come out with a 2.0 version. The JessEm is only about $20 more. A bit confusing why the Kreg wouldn’t be cheaper than $300 especially with the limitations.
I watched your review and also Wood Whisperers video too.I am still saving up for a domino :D .Until then i will use my doweling jig which cost me 20bucks with 3 drill bits and a ton of dowels. Every manufacturer wants a piece of that sweet domino pie and we get a ton of "killers" but they are not even close.
Thanks, Matt, for bringing the tool to our attention, wonderful review. For my money think a doweling jointer is a better option. Freud made what looked like a good mid priced (around $500) one but discontinued it over 10 years ago. The only one I can find in the same price range is from a company called Virutex that looks good, more of an industrial tool in the same class as a Domino, but at less than half the price. However, I am not quite ready to pull the trigger as the company name is unknown to me. MaFell has 2 doweling jointers at $1300+, not going to pay that. And, the doweling jointers under $200 or so just don't have good reviews. Still, I see a mid priced doweling jointer as the "Domino killer" for those who prefer dowels and want an automation path. Until then, I still use and really enjoy my DowelMax, as the precision has never let me down. However, for plowing out a bunch of holes for dowels, sure wish I had something more automated at a reasonable cost. Thanks for your review!!!
Does Festool own the patent on the domino? Seems like I see a lot of “jigs” like this trying to be the “domino killer” but they just really don’t compare. I don’t have and can’t yet afford a festool domino but I don’t see myself buying this or any other jig like it. I think I would rather just save my money and wait.
Currently, Festool has a deal where you get the Domino DT500 with all the bits and a systainer full of Dominoes for $1300 (a savings of like $300). Comparatively, if you get the Mortise Mate with the shown Ryobi Hammerdrill, three sets of Kreg tenons, and all three Kreg bits for $700. I get that price is a major concern for many people but after having used the Domino, seeing this workflow makes me cringe. I don't think I would be committed enough to making all the manual adjustments and would probably just choose using pocket holes instead. A "Domino Option"? Yes. But to say it's a "Domino Killer"? Not remotely.
I'm going to save even more money by just hanging onto my biscuit joiner and not buying any of these gimmicks that basically do the same thing for a lot more money.
@@rudyschwab7709 I got the DF500 with this special and the hype around it is not just hype. It makes creating these mortises so effortless. It's expensive but totally worth the money - especially after considering the workflow of these "Domino Killers." Good luck!
@@rudyschwab7709 I have a 30 year old Dewalt biscuit joiner. It is great and I love using it. But it cannot do the structural joints that a Domino can do. Such as mortise and tenons for legs and rails for a table base. Biscuits are more than strong enough to create the joints to hold a box or cabinet box together. Biscuits on the front, back, side edges. Perfect. But for more stressful joints needing a mortise and tenon or slip tenon and mortises, then the Domino works and the biscuit does not. Not that you can't get structural joints with other methods than the Domino. You can. Screws, dowels, mortise and tenon cut by hand or router. But a Domino would be really nice to have and I want one. Not one of these fake Domino killer contraptions. And I will always keep using my beloved Dewalt biscuit joiner. Its great.
There is a very quick and easy way to adjust the width perfectly symmetrically and extremely accurately-Use the same width metal feeler gauge on each side while making the adjustment. Progressively increase the width of the feeler gauge until you get the perfect fit.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Domino is a better and faster tool. But the value proposition is just not there for a tool that everyone might want! Not at $1200! Maybe at $250! Perhaps a Harbor Freight clone! And a $10 bag is just as good as a systainer for most of us! Good job Kreg! Great video Matt!
FREE - I want to give you 45+ Project Ideas That Sell & Show You How to Make Money Woodworking For FREE: www.skool.com/731woodworks
Click "Read more" to see all of the tool links.
Watch Next: This Will Change Table Saws FOREVER! ! ua-cam.com/video/FwQ43CLtHDg/v-deo.html
Tools in this Video:
Kreg MortiseMate (Acme Tools) - acmetools.pxf.io/XmxDeg
Kreg MortiseMate (Tool Nut) - thetoolnut.sjv.io/LKPbNZ
MortiseMate Extra Bits and Tenons - acmetools.pxf.io/jeWoL5
JessEm Pocket Mill Pro - jessem.com/products/pocket-mill-pro-loose-tenon-system?srsltid=AfmBOopwK6D5SV_dJJROGThZctMCI82xg1zF4oM5rEVh78ey1E49XcMg&sca_ref=5295393.CFeeU2Axhv
Bessey Gear Clamps - amzn.to/4hZ1zuo
JessEm Pocket Mill Pro - acmetools.pxf.io/DyVXNd
Festool Domino - amzn.to/490ul9R
Festool Domino Tenons - amzn.to/3UZmPGm
Router Jig (Domino Killer) - ebay.us/ZKynLn
Festool Dust Extractor - amzn.to/3YVj5XH
Dust Right Hose Adapter Kit - amzn.to/3AS5AjC
Milwaukee Drill I Used - acmetools.pxf.io/m50WPD
RYOBI Drill I Used - homedepot.sjv.io/WyDm5X
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Agreed
the more domino killers I see the more Im convinced I need a domino and not a cheap alternative
Exactly
Unless you get a pantorouter
@@Cessna172G I would love me one
once you go green, you will never go back.
Me too, but I'll stick to dowels. They're affordable, *stronger*, and more accessible.
I said this before, best alternative to dominos are dowels. Same strength, just different look. Get Dowelmax and you will get speed, accuracy and ease of use including 45 miters. There is no need to mimic domino and get a clumsy solution.
Agreed.
@@ST-0311^^^^^^
Hands down. In fact I’ve watched a strength comparison (we all know how those go who knows how accurate they are) but the dowel was strongest joint.
100% agree. In fact, I think they are better because the dowels are spread over a wider area.
I use the updated jessem dowel jig and think it’s great for the money. For hobbyists the $1,100 difference between dowel jigs and domino is better spent on other tools.
Not a Domino killer. Not even close.
The Domino is for rapid and precise joinery which can be applied at angles and not just when you can clamp the thing down on a workbench using their support.
Get the Domino or use something like the DowelMax. I'd rather use the DowelMax doweling jig than either the Kreg or the Jessem "Domino killer".
Get good at joinery and you won’t need a Domino either.
As soon as multiple set screws get involved, you know it's the same old story.. another alternative that just doesn't offer the same level of ease-of-use, precision, and repeatability.
Looked up the domino/Kreg tenon pricing, for the 6x20x40mm/1.5" tenons on both, you have to buy 2.5 boxes of Kreg to match the $31 box of 190 Festool and save $4. For the big 1140 box of Festool for $119 you need 15.2 boxes of Kreg for $167. JessEm's Tenon Stock is sold at 6 12" lengths for $10 you have to cut for yourself at 8 1.5" per stick, which comes to about $40 to match a 190 pack of dominoes and almost $240 to get 1140.
So if you're looking to buy loose tenons in bulk, Festool is actually going to be a better deal for better fitting tenons.
Another option on this is that Woodpeckers has a mortising base attachment for plunge routers currently on sale for $170. That plus a whiteside 1/4sh/6mm spiral upcut bit comes to ~$200. Takes a little more setup, but does the same things.
Thanks for doing the math. I appreciate that!
The Wood Whisperer did a review as well. He found out that Kreg and Jessem worked together on this. His main gripe was the stability that could cause some slop. Not a big deal with the weekend warrior but maybe not for precise projects.
Cool thing. Just checked prices over here in Germany. €400 - on Black Friday Sale!!! I think if I really need such tool, I will go with the real Domino :)
Which website is this on? Fellow European from Ireland
I was wondering a similar thing. I think it's quite overpriced for what it is. A dowelmax may be a bit more cumbersome, but seems equally valid
Reading reviews before commenting, I find that I'm with the majority. 300 bucks of silliness. Tools have followed the kitchen tool game. When does the Veg-o-Matic come out?
Enjoy your videos, but PLEASE stop with the whole "Game Over" thumbnails. It's just obnoxious.
Its for the clicks. Annoying yes but it's great for getting engagement
Snap!! Game over!
the clickbait titles are just as offputting: "XYZ Killer?" "Total Gamechanger??!"
The price you pay for FREE content! 😀
Agree
Having had a Domino for years this looks like it will be a lot slower creating the mortise. This will probably be a good solution for a weekend woodworker.
I wait for Makita Domino, Festools Domino patents expire 2024 , so competitors should be on market with own models 2025.
Lemello biscuit jointer was only copied by Makita , Bosch and DeWalt from big brand names
Not even I think. It's easier and cheaper to just make a router jig. I'm convinced 731 woodworks stopped woodworking a long time ago and just craps out 3 videos a week with products he hasn't really used.
Agree , this looks like a massive pain in the arse compared to festool
As a weekend warrior, i saved up for a domino.
This is nice, but i agree, nice product but time consuming.
I do like that it doesn’t require power.
They worked with jessem for this, I personally almost bought the jessem a couple of years ago but my friend talked me into just getting the domino. He had spent all this money on this jig and that jig but wasnt happy until he had got the domino.
The question isn't why companies keep trying to sell joinery methods that are worse and more expensive than dowels, but why people keep falling for them.
I got mine a couple days ago, and yours is the first video I've seen where someone took the time to show assembly and dialing it in. Thanks!
Glad to be of help!
I'm a roofer by trade, but do a lot of DIY carpentry at home. This looks like most other Kreg tools in that it's geared more for guys like me, not your trade pros. That said, it looks great for MY purposes. Thanks!
Fellow roofer by trade and I diy carpentry as well. I feel the same
I've seen a review on this which points out the excessive slop in the mortises with the dominos provided.
Like its loose?
Me too. And as a tooling machinist who makes assemblies, I'm not a fan of it.
Nice jig but are "Kreg-Ino's better than appropriately sized dowels? I use a dowel jig and it is quick and easy. Plus, dead-nuts accurate. This seems unnecessarily complicated and time-consuming.
Love your stuff Matt! Truly appreciate your videos, have binged watched tons of them and put them on when working in the shop. Learned a ton and really appreciate the tool reviews , they really do help me pick up gear. Thank you sir !
I'm so glad you're finding them useful!
I think the Universe just needs an M18 Domino
YES!! 💯
If the cutter is friction fit what keeps it from getting hung up in the wood and allowing the shaft to spin around it?
friction fit into the shaft but appears to be a hex to prevent spinning
If the bit is a friction fit in that sleeve, isn't there a chance for the cutting head to just "spin" in place? Curious if this happened to you at all? Thanks for the review. Love your channel.
If it did slip, I didn't notice it.
For bringing the tool to the work, cant you you take the Kreg to the work and just use it upside down? Basically just placing it on top of the work piece. Or you can use it in the upright position and just clamp it directly to the work piece?
Was able to test this a couple months ago. there is a set up process and you do have to force the handle side to side when drilling to acivate the drilling step, It's not perfect but it is a cost effected way for beginners to make floating tennons without purcasing a Festool Domino.
Kreg worked with JessEm who has a very similar Loose Tenon system that puts the drill on the top. They are phasing theirs out.
Purchased the 3 size Jessem dowel kit last year. I am sticking with that. It's only a matter of time until Festool has a true competitor.
I would have had all the tenons cut with the festool by the time you cut two with this thing. I’m not a festool fanboy but i completed jobs to get a couple of their tools and the track saw and domino are pretty great
I could see myself using a small setup block(s) on both sides of the little indexing pins for consistency, but you're right that ideally it would keep everything centered and adjust both sides at the exact same rate. Still, to save $1,200 it seems very worth it.
As a DIYer I still spent the money ont he DF700 for the efficiency and ability to use it like a 500 (with the Seneca kit).. it just seems like its going to always be much faster, easier and produce the best quality mortises for joinery.
Kreg 300 and a bit janky. Festool 1199 and daper AF. Chisel set around 80 bucks. What is your time worth and how accurate do you like to be?
What do you think about good old-fashioned biscuit joiner I think it works relatively well for everything I do as much as I would like to have the domino
Allen Key Storage: Get some rubber or plastic tubing that the key fits snugly in, then drill a hole in one of the edges of the plywood base big enough to accept the tubing and deep enough for the key to slide all the way in. Finish up by using CA glue to secure the tubing and Bob's your uncle.
I saw this in person at the Boston Tools and Tailgates events in the Woodcraft stores. I liked the almost all metal composition of the tool and the whole setup (great to clamp to your bench). I have a dowel jig but I look forward to adding this to my shop until I save up for a domino.
I have a JessEm Zip Slot Mortise Mill and Tenon Joinery Tool 08200 that I have had for years that works exactly like this "new" idea from Kreg. Have you seen one?
I wonder if dedicating a $17 corded drill from Harbor Freight would speed up the cut time? I have one that spins at 3000rpm verses the 600 or 700 that a cordless drill runs at. Also the 6mm bits are the same size I run on my CNC, I wonder if they would work as replacements?
If the ones you use on your CNC are upcut bits, I would think they'd work with this.
Great review and tool....BUT, Ryobi biscuit joiner is only slightly over half the cost and does the same thing (seems like a better option). I will say, this does look to be able to handle smaller joins, but not sure.
Can't you turn the mortise mate upside down then clamp it to the top of you work piece instead of setting it up under the work piece?
The JeesEm Pocket Mill Pro is on sale on their website for $319.00. I think it's a better choose. I have had mine for over a year, and it works great without all the adjustments. Kreg does make good products, too.
Dowelmax is even better choice than that. And for less $
Thanks for showing us this. My question is, if the bit slips out of the shank and you push it back in, when you drill the hold, wouldn't the bit spin or slip so it would cut?
i didn't notice it slipping
@@731Woodworks Terrific.
@@edmundhayes7982 A drop of Loctite 620 or 680 will lock the bit in place if slipping is an issue. I would think Kreg would have done this at the factory.
With the festool domino, you can bring the mortiser to the project. Can you do the same with this tool? Also, can you do a speed test where you time how long it takes to cut say, 10 mortises with festool vs kreg?
Thank you very much
You did a GREAT job explaining everything
I am going to get one
Great video! 🎉 99% of all woodworkers don’t know about this Game Changing Domino Killer!! 😂 But for real, this is a great option for the DIY/weekend woodworker wanting to use mortise and tenon but lack the budget to spring for a Festool.
i think you did a great job showcasing this product, it was shown on another channel but not as detailed, keep up the good work
Glad you enjoyed the video, and thanks for the feedback!
Can you just use it upside down and use it like the Festool ? Put a knob or handle that screws into the bottom of the wooden base.
Here's a tip for either this product or the Domino. You can make your own custom width tenons on your thicknesser. I did this on a breadboard end table top and 1st time success. Works a treat 🇦🇺
a little locktite would keep the end cutter in the shank !! maybe scribe matching depth marks on the side screws at least??? also a screw knob to raise and lower the table might be nice!! Have Fun
The products from Kreg are really, really good.
Might be great for casual hobbyist if you don't care about speed. Festool is geared toward pros for whom time is money. More options with the domino in that you are bringing the tool to the material. Think about how you would join plywood panels for cabinets and you can see where the domino is superior.
Without looking at the screen the first few secyoc this video i thought it was the ShamWow guy selling another sponge 😮
haters gonna hate 🤷🏻♂️
Couple of ideas, can you maybe reach in with a set of calipers and measure the stops to get them centered? Couldn't see well enough in the video. And I've already got a couple of Craig clamps that work awesome. It looks like they would be good for this tool as well. Just added another tool to my Christmas list! Thank you
I use the DF700 XL and use the tight/tight joint and it always lines up perfectly. I have never needed a loose fit with clamps. I wonder what the point of a loose fit is only to have to clamp it and wait for glue to dry. Seems to defeat the largest benefit of the Domino.
This looks like a very cool tool, but for now I think I will stick with my dowel jigs.
One alteration that I would probably make is make a duplicate base out of good quality wood or MDF , maybe 1 inch thick then cut grooves in it that would accommodate the Micro jig clamps. This would make the base nice and sturdy so you wouldn't have to screw it down to your bench.
Impressive. What took them so long? Also, is the price really competitive to the Domino or other Domino alternatives?
Great video as always Matt keep up the great work. Definitely going to check this new tool out. Thanks for sharing
It looks like there may be some quality control issues. I saw another review where the mortices were too large vertically, which causes issue when aligning panels.
Bought it…it works pretty well. It’s loose though. If you make your own loose tenons a little bigger you can get by better.
It's still loose after adjusting the stops?
@@pilotdog68 I think it's the Kreg tenons and the drill bit is a little oversized. It's not just the side to side stops where it's loose.
Can it be mounted permanently to a bench to increase rigidity and make the clamping easier?
Yes it could
man this Kreg guy just doesnt miss
Would adding a toggle clamp mounted to the base help?
Clever design and nice and review. I would think using a hand drill with the jig could get fatiguing after a bit if you are doing a lot.
It absoluetly can. If you had to do a ton of these, you'd have a sore hand!
Would like to know more about the Shop apron. Looks awesome.
Biscuits were good enough for Norm they are good enough for me
Just can't use biscuits to join 1-1/2" cabinet face frames.
Rumor has it that this is a joint venture with Jessem. Supporting that is the Jessum unit is on clearance sale. That said, and there is nothing wrong with that, this is a definite downgrade on the Jessem unit. First the horizontal boring action will eventual yield holes that are sloppy in width. The drill bushsing will just end up being worn out and the bit will wonder all over the place. Or the bit shaft will wear out and slop around in the drill bushing. The Jessum unit the drill action is vertical, much better design. You made it clear in a very kind way the thing is super fiddily at best. It sounds like one would get totally frustrated trying to set this thing up. And going from tight to loose lateral fit is just not a repeatable accurate process. Yes it is way less money then the Domino, but seems real janky. This is a great advertisement for why you should just save up foth the Domino, or just use dowels, way less to go wrong. IMO
A “joint venture with Jessem. . ..” 😄😄 good one, even if unintended.
Seems like a good alternative but I feel like they should have a built in automax clamp somehow above the dust port so you don’t have to worry about a clamp for the unit and another for the workpiece.
Perhaps a comparison between the Jessem and Kreg products in the future?
The Wood Whisperer said Jessem partnered with Kreg and will be discontinuing their branded version.
I watched someone else review this last week and they never mentioned what you did here, 4:50. That's a huge overlook on their part.
if you make a pair of spacers with a step in them will they fit between the carriage and the end stop? insert the big end and adjus the left screw stop. flip and adjust the other stop. Surprised they did nomake a plastic C-shaped tool or little keys on a ring
As someone that has the entire Jessem loose tenon system this the same with worse tolerances... After about 700.00 (pocket mill+workbench +small and large face joint jig and 6+8+10mm bits) I'm pretty disappointed and wish I just saved my money for the festool.. between line lat out, set up, clamping and drilling it's incredibly slow.. it's also very finicky and will often flex in the pressure of the end mill cutting the wood to the point that the bolts that hold it onto the clamping station will loosen often... Even fought for a replacement and got the same results... And if you don't fully seat the jig all the way forward with a 10 mm bit it will barely touch the view finder and will shatter the carbide end mill.. even if it's off just .002 inch.. I've used it for several projects of all different types of joints and it's just a frustrating piece of equipment. But it makes a lot tighter joints than this at least
It might be worth if you are mounting it to a workbench, to route out a spot, so the jig is inset to the bench so you do not have to shim up for bigger pieces.
Maybe throw some green lock time retaining compound in the friction fit bit and holder?
Good video! I been learning a lot from your videos! God bless you man
Thanks so much for watching!
Do you know if they're going to have that jig on sale on Black Friday will be looking for one tomorrow
K4 is on sale now on Amazon
Buy the festool compatible extra long tenon stock and cut your own lengths - it'll save a ton of money.
Maybe Festool should lower their ridiculously over priced equipment. Great idea on the magnet for the Alan key.
I wouldn’t say it’s ridiculously overpriced. It’s a tool made for professionals who can afford the best of the best and do woodworking to make a living. Theres lots of cheaper options for the hobbyist like Dowelmax or Jessem dowel jig.
But why though? They have novel ideas and a corner on the market. Until their patents expire (like they have on track saws) they should be able to capitalize on their ideas and products. If you are making money from your tools a Domino isn't all that expensive. If you're a DIY/weekend warrior you aren't their target audience.
Festool does not have this on their radar at all. Festool customers are not comparing and deciding between the Domino vs whatever this is.
Is there a way to use a dial caliper to adjust the width of the cut?
Love your videos. Occasionally use the links to buy stuff. Just saw the "+45 Free Project Ideas"... yeah one of the things you talk about is time when doing projects... the time and effort it takes to get the "free" plans doesnt make them free. I usually dont do "free" stuff cause of things like this. If its free there should be no strings attached. Well maybe one string (mailing list or some such).
The Rockler beadlock is cheaper and works great you should look at that
getcha a nice set of ball end hex drivers, and you will have something that is easier to use, and nice enough that you'll keep track of it and not lose it.
Thank you for this video. Love the channel
Thanks for watching!
It'll do a job for occasional use but if using everyday the Domino wins hands down
I rarely use my domino but, when I do its no nonsense done and over with.
You guys answer your own question every time! Asking whether its a Domino killer and then making a direct comparison showing that all these shortcuts come up short next to the Domino. I think for a lot of DIYers the cheaper versions will work, but it looks like if you're a pro, you're just better off with the pricier Domino.
I just checked and my Festool Domino Jointer is just fine, not even nervous. ;) Still, there's nothing like hand joinery.
Awesome review! I just added this to my "Need" list!!
wouldn't making one of the mortise holes loose defeat the whole purpose of a mortise and tenon joint? doesn't seem like it would be too strong.
No. A mortise and tenon gets most/all of its strength from the glue joint formed on the wide/long side of the tenon and mortise. Think about a 4" wide, 4" long tenon slid into a 6" wide, 4" deep mortise. 1/4" thick tenon. You have 32 square inches of glue surface keeping the joint together. The little 1/4" sides are 2 square inches total. One sixteenth of the faces (16+16=tenon faces, 1+1=edge faces, 2/32=1/16th). Is making something one sixteenth stronger material? Usually not. And with all mortises and tenons and Dominoes, the tenon or slip tenon is always a tiny bit shorter than the full depth of the mortise so the ends never are glued. Having the slip tenon/Domino flop side to side in the mortise does not materially weaken the joint once the glue dries.
great job, now have to look at it deeper.
Good review - thanks
JessEm helped them with this but theirs the drill is above so the weight of the drill doesn’t affect it and make it more difficult like the Kreg. Plus the drill weight starts to pull the tool from the wood so what’s that going to look like after a lot of use. The plywood should’ve been metal and a stronger connection to mate the tool and base together. Not being able to do angles is not great either. Hopefully they iron out the bugs and come out with a 2.0 version. The JessEm is only about $20 more. A bit confusing why the Kreg wouldn’t be cheaper than $300 especially with the limitations.
The ball bearings of your drill are not made to accept force from the side. Not sure that the bearings in the jig take all the force off it.
I watched your review and also Wood Whisperers video too.I am still saving up for a domino :D .Until then i will use my doweling jig which cost me 20bucks with 3 drill bits and a ton of dowels.
Every manufacturer wants a piece of that sweet domino pie and we get a ton of "killers" but they are not even close.
Wondering if the loose tenon system is much better than a double dowel? Saw this from grizzly for much cheaper than the kreg. Grizzly PRO T32540
this looks amazing! May have to step up from my pocket whole obsession
Id like to know more about your phone stand for shootin videos. Maybe include a link
Thanks, Matt, for bringing the tool to our attention, wonderful review.
For my money think a doweling jointer is a better option. Freud made what looked like a good mid priced (around $500) one but discontinued it over 10 years ago. The only one I can find in the same price range is from a company called Virutex that looks good, more of an industrial tool in the same class as a Domino, but at less than half the price. However, I am not quite ready to pull the trigger as the company name is unknown to me. MaFell has 2 doweling jointers at $1300+, not going to pay that. And, the doweling jointers under $200 or so just don't have good reviews. Still, I see a mid priced doweling jointer as the "Domino killer" for those who prefer dowels and want an automation path.
Until then, I still use and really enjoy my DowelMax, as the precision has never let me down. However, for plowing out a bunch of holes for dowels, sure wish I had something more automated at a reasonable cost.
Thanks for your review!!!
Interesting, thanks for the video!
Does Festool own the patent on the domino? Seems like I see a lot of “jigs” like this trying to be the “domino killer” but they just really don’t compare. I don’t have and can’t yet afford a festool domino but I don’t see myself buying this or any other jig like it. I think I would rather just save my money and wait.
yeah they do have a patent on the Domino
@@731Woodworksthat makes sense why no one has made a comparable motorized version
Currently, Festool has a deal where you get the Domino DT500 with all the bits and a systainer full of Dominoes for $1300 (a savings of like $300). Comparatively, if you get the Mortise Mate with the shown Ryobi Hammerdrill, three sets of Kreg tenons, and all three Kreg bits for $700. I get that price is a major concern for many people but after having used the Domino, seeing this workflow makes me cringe. I don't think I would be committed enough to making all the manual adjustments and would probably just choose using pocket holes instead. A "Domino Option"? Yes. But to say it's a "Domino Killer"? Not remotely.
I'm going to save even more money by just hanging onto my biscuit joiner and not buying any of these gimmicks that basically do the same thing for a lot more money.
@@rudyschwab7709 I personally find a biscuit jointer to be pretty worthless. Sold mine.
@@rudyschwab7709 I got the DF500 with this special and the hype around it is not just hype. It makes creating these mortises so effortless. It's expensive but totally worth the money - especially after considering the workflow of these "Domino Killers." Good luck!
@@rudyschwab7709 I have a 30 year old Dewalt biscuit joiner. It is great and I love using it. But it cannot do the structural joints that a Domino can do. Such as mortise and tenons for legs and rails for a table base. Biscuits are more than strong enough to create the joints to hold a box or cabinet box together. Biscuits on the front, back, side edges. Perfect. But for more stressful joints needing a mortise and tenon or slip tenon and mortises, then the Domino works and the biscuit does not. Not that you can't get structural joints with other methods than the Domino. You can. Screws, dowels, mortise and tenon cut by hand or router. But a Domino would be really nice to have and I want one. Not one of these fake Domino killer contraptions. And I will always keep using my beloved Dewalt biscuit joiner. Its great.
At 15:24, can't you just flip the mortise mate upside down and put it on the top of your work piece too, just as you do with the domino?
There is a very quick and easy way to adjust the width perfectly symmetrically and extremely accurately-Use the same width metal feeler gauge on each side while making the adjustment. Progressively increase the width of the feeler gauge until you get the perfect fit.
That is a great tip. Thanks for sharing.
They made the bits removeable so they're cheaper to replace, because in time they will wear out quickly. Just like the pocket hole bits.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Domino is a better and faster tool. But the value proposition is just not there for a tool that everyone might want! Not at $1200! Maybe at $250! Perhaps a Harbor Freight clone! And a $10 bag is just as good as a systainer for most of us! Good job Kreg! Great video Matt!
Hey Matt if I didn't have a domino already I definitely buy the Krag
Great job! Thanks for doing this.