So, Goth, sitting in a coffee shop at 4am watching the rain and its comforting. Emo, standing in the rain outside the coffee shop crying because you cant afford a coffee (your parents cut your allowance).
When you think about it, people just invented these labels for clothing styles so same or not , I'm just whatever at this point. Emo and goth are only related because of the amount of black that's worn but still they're both different.
Emo imo is like Goth's shy little brother who just needs a hug sometimes and they enjoy writing and comparing poetry but sometimes when Goth tries to show Emo their interests, they get distracted on their walk through the Cemetery and when Emo says something like "I wish I was dead". Goth just walks over and places a hand on their shoulder and says "You can be dead inside and still live a Happy life". At first Emo might think that makes no sense, but they'll understand what Goth meant with time.
It's bizarre that Joy Division don't get counted as goth, considering they started at the same time as Siouxsie and the Cure, and arguably have been more influential on the music.
I am older, so I see, with time, more genres and genres have been added and now younger kids gatekeep that. In the 80s, mopey goth was The Cure and The Smiths. The Smiths had songs about poets and meeting in cemeteries. People liked Joy Division, The Smiths, Siouxsie, The Cure altogether. No one really cared as much as they do now. Now I see Voltaire is a goth but doesn’t make goth music…it makes my Elder Goth head explore.
Simple answer: Joy Division stopped existing when the singer committed suicide and that was before the band could have been counted as goth. The rest of the band formed New Order.
I was an 80’s Goth and my daughter was an emo. I loved going shopping for her. It was very important for her emo gang to be heavily laden in stripes, tiny skulls, Emily strange and goth hello kitty merch and of course a collection of vans. Good times.
I'm 36 I'm Goth / emo and my favorite oldies band is actually the Beatles, Queen and Bowie. I also listen to hip hop like Eminem and I also love lady gaga and sia. So it's ok.
I love how Goth and Emo are both subcategories of Punk and yet sound like different ends of the same spectrum. It's a weird phenomena. Goth is dark and emo is sad, I suppose? But Goth can also be sad and Emo can also go dark? Just in different ways though? I always found it weird. I was once an Emo who wore a Misfits getup and I had goth friends who did the same thing, so there's definitely an overlap
I'm a bit of an outsider, never called myself 'goth' or 'emo' (which came after I was a kid) but I've always loved dark, stylish, unconventional clothes, makeup, dark entertainment, rain, solitude, emotional heavy music, and unconventional people who are unreservedly themselves. Eventually enough people referenced me as 'goth' so I guess I got voted in lol. From my standpoint, punk, goth, emo, visual kei, scene kids etc are all kind of under the same generalized umbrella: theyre' always the different people who feel a lot more feelings, and who think about things more deeply, and have a strong need to express who they are while not giving a shit what other people say. The music tends to be heavily emotional, regardless of genre. With A lot of kids it's just a phase to fit in a clique and they grow out of it, but everyone else, it's a basic personality thing. We're just wired this way. The particular niche is more of style choice that appeals.
@@Androsynth75 I was talking about Goth and Emo as music subcultures. Goth music is sad sounding, but so is emo. Just different types of sad. Both dawn an angsty aesthetic, also different. Both are sonically from punk while being two different styles. Etc. I'm not trying to be rude but none of what you said makes any sense to me
@@Androsynth75 literally no subculture tells you about someone's personality. I don't know how you'd do that without stereotyping yourself and others. It might tell you about what interests someone gravitates towards but that's not the same thing as personality. You can have a pleasant personality and be goth or not goth
@@TheOneTruePatriot I’m not talking about whether you’re pleasant or not, I mean more basic stuff like ‘tends to have deep feelings, likes more dark or emotional things’. That’s just a pattern I’ve noticed with people in these subculture over the years. ‘Qualities’ is probably a better term than personality. I’ve noticed a lot of folks in these share those qualities is all.
@@Androsynth75 tbf "emotional" can mean anything though. If someone is goth they may tend to like things that are dark. I agree with that. They often like horror; the occult and left hand path ideas; murder mysteries; ghost hunting shows That doesn't say a lot about people morally or emotionally though. It could say you're intelligent or curious, or that you're superstitious and these interests are readily available to you due to capitalism. A total psychopath could have all those interests and then a very generous person could as well It really depends on why someone is interested in what they are. Motive and intent
Hey, old Dublin goth here and there was a time for about 24hrs in the early 1980s when the term 'gothic punk' was used. I felt it was quite accurate and organic to be honest. 'Siouxsie & the Banshees' and 'The Damned' were established punk bands and part of the old school of punk rock, then Bauhaus and Sex Gang Children came along and there was a kind of a bridge. I had an older brother who had been an OG punk rocker and I described it to him as when punk became a fashion and you could buy ready-to-wear 'punk' outfits, the gothic punks were still making their own outfits, putting together bits and pieces and therefore were more 'punk' than the punks. He didn't like it but he agreed. 😂
Connor : "I'm expressing my lack of talent" killed me 🤣🤣 I thought your makeup was really cool ! And loved this video, i'm always SO happy when i see your new uploads ! You defo are a safe place to me, and my favorite youtubers ❤
Love this! I'm definitely from the generation that when we think of Goth music and fashion, its all about The Cure, Siouxie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, and NIN. I didn't really know much about Emo as I was in my late 20's when most of it came out. I do love Ville Valo and HIM though.
The thing with emo is that it originally didnt come with fashion until the early 2000s. The haircut and bangs as well. I think mcr is mainly just rock music not really emo. I think the used, hawthrone heights and taking back sunday are more emo. I personally really liked rites of spring and sounds similar to these bands.
Elder Goth here. In the early/mid 80s we were listen to what you would call goth bands and dress black etc, yet was uncool to use the goth label, but we knew we were goth :P. In the mid 80s you used to see punks, goths and new waves and metalheads. All had very distinctive looks and music they liked. Emos started in mid 90s, Goths early 80s, so Emo took a big inspiration from the goth look. Goths were always into the music, you never used to see people dressed in black with the big hair that was not goths both in Italy and in London.
There were plenty of artists with big teased hair, dramatic makeup, wearing black, fishnet, leather and lace back in the 80s. Madonna, Bonnie Tyler, Jennifer Rush to mention some. It seems to me that people identifying as goth have never bothered to look at what was going on outside your subculture. I have been assumed goth several times (I'm 44 years old), but I never took my fashion inspiration from the goth subculture.
Well the difference between goth and emo is the most important thing in the music like for Goth Music you can relax and also put some Emotion in it but for Emma music it's different it's a little bit louder harder but you also put you Emotion in it Also of course the different style the dress.
As a goth who lives the vampire lifestyle I have been labeled emo a time or two or like I'm dressing for Halloween all year. This video very helpful. Thank you guys. 🦇🩸🖤
I always love listening to you when you are discussing the WikiHow thoughts on Goth :) :) My favorite non-Goth band is BlackBriar from the Netherlands. Some people call them Goth but others just classify them as metal. So they may not count. Other than them, there are so many I like. At the moment, I'm also thinking of Voluspa which is a small Viking band who have slowly been getting their footing and producing more music over the last few years. I love them and their adorable family
I love Shakira!!! I've been listening to her for about twenty-two years now, so my heart skipped a beat after you mentioned her. In fact, I have a funko of her close to my other funko of Robert Smith. I also love Ricky Martin and Enrique Iglesias, and I have seen them together live. I was never emo, but I went through a phase of Avril Lavigne and Green Day--as well as The Used--during my Mansonite years in the mid-2000s. Whoever mentioned "goth wave" in that post had to have been an American. I used to hear it all the time when I was involved with Obscura Undead in the past. Goth is simple: Post-punk, goth rock (three waves), deathrock, dark wave, cold wave, ethereal, and the New German Death Art movement. Sometimes neo-classical dark wave, but that one really depends on the band. We'll see you in the next nightmare! Cheers!
You have utterly surprised me this morning 😆 I am goth and the doors are my all time favorite band - I know every note, every lyric and never have I ever stopped to think and perceive them as an early goth band! That makes soo much sense now 😂 thank you 🙂🖤
For those interested in Screamo/Skramz: Frail Body put out their second album this year and Heavenly Blue put out their Debut record this year. Both great bands continuing the sound of Screamo. For those interested in Post hardcore and Metalcore that are doing well in today’s world check out the following bands to get you started : SeeYouSpaceCowboy, If I Die First, Wristmeetrazor, Hail The Sun, Kaonashi, Foreign Hands, and Dying Wish.
Connor had me laughing so hard that I had tears in my eyes. My favorite moment was Connor saying come at me coward. Connor is a bad ass! Told my wife that I got to have one of the very unchrist like behavior t-shirts. My favorite non-goth bands are AC/DC, Guns N Roses and Weird Al.
May it’s a really silly question but. What do both of you think about the South Park goth kids and the episode dawned on of the posers? Btw I really enjoyed this video I hope you become more popular. Hello from Spain
"There's some back and forth on the scene about wether or not Molchat Doma is a goth band..." Noo! I love them! "But let's face it, we all love them." Yay 🖤
As an adult female goth; honestly, since I got called 'emo' as an insult so darned often back when I was a teenager, it's more the confusion between the two subcultures and the claim that 'it's the same, lol' that tends to annoy me a little. Like, nothing against the emos at all (you guys are cool in my book), I just wish that the morons who use that word as an insult would use their single brain cell to google the matter. Like, then they'd know that it's the music; come on, you can't tell me that My Chemical Romance and Paramore sounds the same as the the Sisters of Mercy and Sweet Ermengarde! So thank you two for explaining the difference to the regular folks; I'm sure that the emos appreciate it too. Also, to all of you emo folks out there: hello, and so sorry that you all have to experience harassment as well. Also, your sassy comebacks to the weird barking that some idiots do are pure comedy gold, and I can't say that I'm not keeping a few of those in my back pocket for if I ever experience that. 🤣 Please don't let those morons get you down, okay?
Love the content you guys post and decided to subscribe! Would love to see a video on the difference between punk and goth if you both are willing to do that for another video!
@@MaxxRemKing1 wowww you’re sooooo quirkyyy that’s so weird you don’t just like one singular type of music??!?! And in the SAME PLAYLIST?!? You’re so different lmao!!! Who does that???! Hahahahahaha! Emoji emoji emoji
emo has gothic influences，many emo kids have gothic look, thats why they been called emo goth lol emo is like goth and punk/post hardcore have a son together
One time my dad said "emo is another word for goth". Mind y'all he was a boomer and didn't understand why I'm into these subcultures and their music. However he was willing to learn more about alternative culture, unfortunately he died earlier this year may he rest in peace. As someone who's goth or simply alternative, I love listening to artists like Fashion Bomb, Deadstar Assembly, Deathstars and My Chemical to artists like Hilary Duff, Jesse McCartney, Ryan Cabrera and The Veronicas at the same time. 2000s alternative pop culture is fun. Lately I've been on a punk kick too! 😅🖤
I love darkwave! I feel it works well to interplay it with goth . I know the difference but sometimes i like to listen to both. In Australia, the emo fashions came out of the 90s alternative rock scene. Imagine emo now but in rainbow colour! Then they swapped it all for grey and horizontal striping. AND then they adopted bands that produced songs that fell into the genre well. I personally am not a fan but i do have emo friends.
Darkwave is goth. But a lot of modern synthpop and synthwave gets called darkwave, which has distorted the genre. She Past Away is goth; Drab Majesty is not.
Was interesting seeing you two covering this. It was a topic of the ages. I listen to lots of Goth Rock but I also had fun making a Emocore Playlist on Spotify. Im getting old too.
I am a gothic person through and through and probably a lot older than you, I was getting beat up in high school in the late 80's for being one of 5 people that dressed goth and listened to the music. I literally slept in a coffin at 16 and my mom didn't know what to make of it. As far as Goth vs Emo, You guys nailed it. I mean, southpark tried to paraphrase it but they didn't do as good as a job as you. I no longer dress goth because I was born again 10 years ago, and as a Christian I have the freedom to dress like I used to, but for the sake of my personal evangelism I feel that I reach more people dressed casual jeans and t shirt. I know you were poking fun at Jesus, but anyways, I still make goth music tho (it is Christian themed) and you named some of my favorites,from the doors to SWS and SOM. Cool video!
Im really glad that you bothered on marking the core differences between cultures, because social media it's kind of provoking confusion between one and another :)
Interesting, and as an old school punk/goth/freak I would say… the worst thing you can do is label yourself. Most of the bands who were labeled goth weren’t actually trying to be goth. The best alternative people are people who don’t care what they are labeled, because they are secure in their own self. The only people who care about labels are the people who are insecure about their own identity. If something makes you happy and you love it, then be happy and love it. If someone says you can’t do X,Y, or Z… F them and be happy they let you know not to be around them. Don’t look back. You are amazing and deserve to be happy. Nuffsed
I’ve had this argument with people since 07. Goth is a deep subculture made of various genres, various subsets, subculture’s within the subculture, there are Punk branches, industrial branches, rockabilly branches, New Wave branches, Glam branches, Classical or even Operatic branches, Techno branches of Goth even exist, and less popularly admitted slightly Metal influences like Type-O Negative or 69 Eyes etc. Emo is just punk but way less cool,way less in your face, and way less politically provocative it became a new style randomly in the late 2000’s, and has no depth beyond lyrics that mostly pertain to the teen experience. The shelf life of being emo is short lived. You will look stupid dressing emo past the age of 16-22. Unlike Punk rockers who have members of that subcultures now in their late 70’s early 80’s. Like Goth Punk Grows with you. Emo looks pretty silly when your not a kid. Once again teen’s to very late teens, and for those clinging to it can get away with being Emo until 22, maybe 23 but a 25 yr old Emo is kinda embarrassing. Goth even has a Corporate style for when you GROW UP and need to get a job, lol, Goth molds to you, aesthetically it grows with you, and you can get pretty creative with the style, you can Go high-fashion with it, you can go futuristic with it, you can go Victorian with it, you can be Punky with it, you can dress like a damn Goth Cowboy, or a Vampire, you really can do Goth however you want so long as you have the foundation of the music. Post-punk, Darkwave, Gothic Rock, Deathrock, future-pop, synth-wave, Industrial, Ethereal, etc. Emo is just Emo. And screamo, and Pop punk. Which is Kinda trashy and silly looking on a grown adult. When Emo’s grow up they end up looking like Normie’s with tattoo’s. That’s it.
Yeah, you don’t see Emo extending as far into other subcultures as Goth. Emo is the teen who says “Let me alone!” And runs into their bedroom. They don’t want to go to steampunk parties or have fun. Goths have fun.
I remember when an emo girl asked me out in high school back in like 2010 when skinny jeans started to become super popular, so all I wore was skinny jeans, vans, and snapbacks, and I played on the high school basketball team, so I was surprised an emo girl would be into me, but I said yes, and we dated for like 5 years. At first, we would get odd looks a Puerto Rican "fuckboy" dating a white goth girl but after a month, everyone just got used to it.
Cheers! I stumbled to your channel because of the Download Festival....wow! You're both fun and entertaining. As for "emo" definitely need to mention At the Drive-In and Mars Volta....will need to rewatch your previous shows before you turn Random Normal Couple! 😁😃❤🖤
As an elder goth (with irish roots, escaping 28 years ago to Germany...) I am very surprised that Emo is still a thing. All I see down here are heavily inked, middleaged hipsters with stretched earlopes and skinny jeans with somekind of sordid sneakers from back then. Back in the sceane ueen days I got mistaken as Emo, casually wearing everyday garb ..Feck,I am old! ^^Emo is pretty dead, but goth never really died. (Could be my black bubble though and not being affected by hairloss ) - Post-Punk is a very loooooooong chapter in music history with recent terms. Everything and anything palatable for a goth taste gets announced as Post-Punk these days. Went to Midas Fall last week, will see Miranda Sex Garden next weeks, saw Lebanon Hanover and Bleib Modern in the past....All announced as Post-Punk. It's such a generic term these days. I think: "Post-Punk is dead!" ;)
How do you feel about goth-adjacent bands? VU, Stranglers, Damned, Leonard Cohen, Nico, Killing Joke, Black Sabbath, Lee Hazelwood, Scott Walker. I dunno, that may be a big stretch. I'm at work without work to do. Peace from New Mexico, USA. Also I love Napalm Death
just saw that there is/was a "portal" connecting new your to Ireland. supposedly the art piece has been shut down. i'm sure the artists had good intentions just like the person that brought us the internet. i heard that the person that brought the internet now regrets it. did you get a chance to visit this "portal"? i'm sure it would have made for a good video.
well both are part of punk culture,emo originally was from emotional hardcore bands like rites of spring and Indiana summer and others and goth punks were even in 80s part of punk ,idk if like this now
Finally, a huge light and guide to clarify that, as a goth I've been called emo, satanic and even metalhead just because I wear black clothes and make up, It's great to differ between one sub-culture and the other through true information and examples like the ones you have shown in the video, I also love your goth subculture styles' series btw, hugs 🖤🖤
My favorite pop singer has always been Hilary Duff. I just absolutely love her 😂. Also, I absolutely love Kazumasa Oda and the group WorldOrder. Genki Sudo has my heart 😆🫶
So I consider myself as a Goth but I also looooove disco and jazz. Especially Bosa Nova jazz. I genuinely love so many genres it makes my head spin. However I’d say my clothing choice as of now is like if a hobbit turned into a vampire who is also inspired by Peter Steele 😂
Frank Iero is too busy doing dad rock to come after you. But glad to hear you enjoyed the 1st solo album. LOL Emo is so hard to categorize for me; I had never thought of Jimmy Eat World as Emo before, but I can see it. But then, there's also so many arguments over what is Goth music (actually, what is NOT Goth music). It all blurs along the edges. I don't take active part in either, but listen to both. And I always prefer black and skulls over other clothing and accessories. Getting to experience both subcultures as an adult usually means I've added bits of each to the overall of who I am.
I always thought it was Peter Murphy who attached the term "Goth" to those people that attended Bauhaus concerts. I was told that the scenario was that Murphy was looking at the crowd at a concert and likened the scene to the "goths" of old invading a city. LOL.
@@mikemurphy5898 lets be real the emos would cry in a corner it's kind of their whole thing, and on brand. sipping on feelings of the past, walking threw the past, nostalgia called me to the place I once belonged, but the vampire man sucked away soul because he would'nt let me in, his boots and chains beat me down as I drowned in a river of my tears, but then we talked it out and made in the in the back it was the corner of the coffee shop I could not stop these tears of joy. their see I just wrote a hit emo song about it tell me that's not on point.
depends on what kind of goth it is. deathrockers have being a punk going on. punks are more of a fighters. but like the post above, emos are usually fit
Made me so happy to hear you say "that's just darkwave" as that is exactly what I was thinking as you were reading the "gothwave" nonsense- since yeah, that is just darkwave. 🤣
I honestly sort of don't know exactly what I am still. I was bullied years ago back in high school, and they used to call me emo non stop and people would say I cut myself and all these other lies they came up with that weren't true lol. I was sheltered a lot so I didn't know anything or what to call my style besides goth or punk rock . I actually have like the same exact style as Johnnie Guilbert if you know who that is, but I'm not a dude and my outfits are just like a female version of his. I didn't even know of the guys existence until some time back in maybe August 2023 or a little before so I was kind of surprised when I discovered him because his style was like exactly like mine and I never really ever saw or met anyone who had the same exact taste in style. I actually had compliments by some individuals that know me in real life saying oh its you as a dude, when they saw something of Johnnie Guilbert lol. He calls himself emo so I'm guessing I could just emo as well but I do love Goth style , emo style and punk rock style. I love the color black more then any other color but I like to wear other colors and designs as well like my Leopard dress and my white dress with black bracelets. Sometimes I wear this tyedye looking dress with my black leather bracelet that has silver metal ring holes lol. I get creative with what I have and what family give me as gifts during occasions like holidays or my birthday.
We would joke that "An emo is a goth that can't commit." The main resentment goths had with the emo subculture was mostly just about normies mistaking goths for emo...either they didn't know the difference, or they knew it gets under our skin! Didn't really take issue with emos really, other than thinking the perhaps were bogarting the style somewhat. I would imagine most goths would be welcoming to emos...already darkly inclined we would of course endeavor to put them on the *ahem* "correct" musical journey. I wonder though, are there any "Elder Emos" or is that not a thing?
Wait but i don't listen to any music you mentioned. For starter i consider myself Metalhead in terms of music i listen to, but i love the aesthetic of black clothes, victorian-vampiric-esk outfits combined with love for horror and the beauty i find in death. What tag would that be? just plain Gothic? Great content btw!
I love 🎶🖤☠️🔥 The HU 🔥☠️🖤🎶 For those that haven't heard them, they're a badass metal band from Mongolia, that utilize Mongolian throat singing, as well as an electric horse loot that sounds just like a horse whaling! They're EPIC
After Vincent Price, was The Dead boys. On 8-track tape. The birthday party, the gang of four, Robert Gordon and the tough darts, Iggy and the stooges, and you know the rest if you haven't heard of the passage. King crimson not exactly adjacent but worth the effort. I did watch television on a vacuum tube set. Was that back in the Cambrian era?
My hero’s looking o so Frightfully fantastic as always honestly even though we goths are the best I can see both parts when sum say hell na we’re not alike or there just the same 🦇🖤❤️🖤❤️🖤❤️🖤🦇🦇🦇
Welcome back to weird wikihow! If you wanna support the channel check out the Merch on www.randomgothcouple.store ✝️🦇
😆
Pop Artist: Andy Warhol
How to be a real goth?
How to be a real goth?
Listen to goth music 🎶🎧
So, Goth, sitting in a coffee shop at 4am watching the rain and its comforting. Emo, standing in the rain outside the coffee shop crying because you cant afford a coffee (your parents cut your allowance).
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Or crying cause your parents dont give you an allowance
I'll take my coffee to my car not where ppl make noise over the rain 😌 🌧
What is you're dancing in the rain, barefoot, in all black,, because you had an iced cold brew and have soooo much energy?
It's exilerating!
Everytime that G Note sound effect is added to the word Emo there should be a jumpscare warning 😭
We apologise hahahaha
It causes my emo ass to go into a sleeper agent esque state when it plays and it sends me and my goth best friend's sides into orbit
When I was
Glad to read on the newsflash that Bela Lugosi is found alive and well. It’s a great relief.
Well, he is undead.
Lmao
My youngest sibling is Emo, and I’m goth, we find it funny and sometimes get a little upset when people claim that “they are the same thing”
I can't believe emo's are still around. I thought they got stuffed out after the 2000s ended
@@GrosvnerMcaffrey Yes, they are still around. They’ve never gone away
When you think about it, people just invented these labels for clothing styles so same or not , I'm just whatever at this point. Emo and goth are only related because of the amount of black that's worn but still they're both different.
@@GuardianDeathAngel Each one, Emo and Goth, are both MUSIC-BASED Subcultures (fashion is just an add on)
@@GuardianDeathAngel both emerged from punk
Emo imo is like Goth's shy little brother who just needs a hug sometimes and they enjoy writing and comparing poetry but sometimes when Goth tries to show Emo their interests, they get distracted on their walk through the Cemetery and when Emo says something like "I wish I was dead". Goth just walks over and places a hand on their shoulder and says "You can be dead inside and still live a Happy life". At first Emo might think that makes no sense, but they'll understand what Goth meant with time.
"You can be dead inside and still live a happy life" 😂 That is some Goth wisdom right there 😂
@@MaxxRemKing1 thanks :D
It's bizarre that Joy Division don't get counted as goth, considering they started at the same time as Siouxsie and the Cure, and arguably have been more influential on the music.
I am older, so I see, with time, more genres and genres have been added and now younger kids gatekeep that. In the 80s, mopey goth was The Cure and The Smiths. The Smiths had songs about poets and meeting in cemeteries. People liked Joy Division, The Smiths, Siouxsie, The Cure altogether. No one really cared as much as they do now. Now I see Voltaire is a goth but doesn’t make goth music…it makes my Elder Goth head explore.
@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396 isnt voltaire dark cabaret? its the guy from adventure quest worlds i think
@@RaineBans Dark cabaret isn't goth, it's its own thing.
@@ThreadBomb i didnt say it is. i meant voltaire is dark cabaret. if thats the artist im thinking of
Simple answer: Joy Division stopped existing when the singer committed suicide and that was before the band could have been counted as goth. The rest of the band formed New Order.
"If you get cold, you can wear a sweater"?
This is hoodie erasure!
The next exploration should be: Rockabilly: Where old Goths and Punks go to Retire
Also Steampunk cons!
Where non-black attire are not given the 👀
Gothabilly is a thing, though.
Or the Hot Topic peeps
Fist they have to find comen ground & get along
I was an 80’s Goth and my daughter was an emo. I loved going shopping for her. It was very important for her emo gang to be heavily laden in stripes, tiny skulls, Emily strange and goth hello kitty merch and of course a collection of vans. Good times.
I'm a goth, listen to goth music mostly, but I still love P!nk, Amy Winehouse, Lana del Rey sometimes xD
I'm 36 I'm Goth / emo and my favorite oldies band is actually the Beatles, Queen and Bowie.
I also listen to hip hop like Eminem and I also love lady gaga and sia.
So it's ok.
You mix the genres?!
Okay let’s be honest here. I am going to say it! THIS CHANNEL IS THE BEST GOTH CHANNEL! Also you guys are the best couple
I love how Goth and Emo are both subcategories of Punk and yet sound like different ends of the same spectrum. It's a weird phenomena. Goth is dark and emo is sad, I suppose? But Goth can also be sad and Emo can also go dark? Just in different ways though? I always found it weird. I was once an Emo who wore a Misfits getup and I had goth friends who did the same thing, so there's definitely an overlap
I'm a bit of an outsider, never called myself 'goth' or 'emo' (which came after I was a kid) but I've always loved dark, stylish, unconventional clothes, makeup, dark entertainment, rain, solitude, emotional heavy music, and unconventional people who are unreservedly themselves. Eventually enough people referenced me as 'goth' so I guess I got voted in lol. From my standpoint, punk, goth, emo, visual kei, scene kids etc are all kind of under the same generalized umbrella: theyre' always the different people who feel a lot more feelings, and who think about things more deeply, and have a strong need to express who they are while not giving a shit what other people say. The music tends to be heavily emotional, regardless of genre.
With A lot of kids it's just a phase to fit in a clique and they grow out of it, but everyone else, it's a basic personality thing. We're just wired this way. The particular niche is more of style choice that appeals.
@@Androsynth75 I was talking about Goth and Emo as music subcultures. Goth music is sad sounding, but so is emo. Just different types of sad. Both dawn an angsty aesthetic, also different. Both are sonically from punk while being two different styles. Etc.
I'm not trying to be rude but none of what you said makes any sense to me
@@Androsynth75 literally no subculture tells you about someone's personality. I don't know how you'd do that without stereotyping yourself and others. It might tell you about what interests someone gravitates towards but that's not the same thing as personality. You can have a pleasant personality and be goth or not goth
@@TheOneTruePatriot I’m not talking about whether you’re pleasant or not, I mean more basic stuff like ‘tends to have deep feelings, likes more dark or emotional things’. That’s just a pattern I’ve noticed with people in these subculture over the years. ‘Qualities’ is probably a better term than personality. I’ve noticed a lot of folks in these share those qualities is all.
@@Androsynth75 tbf "emotional" can mean anything though. If someone is goth they may tend to like things that are dark. I agree with that. They often like horror; the occult and left hand path ideas; murder mysteries; ghost hunting shows
That doesn't say a lot about people morally or emotionally though. It could say you're intelligent or curious, or that you're superstitious and these interests are readily available to you due to capitalism. A total psychopath could have all those interests and then a very generous person could as well
It really depends on why someone is interested in what they are. Motive and intent
Hey, old Dublin goth here and there was a time for about 24hrs in the early 1980s when the term 'gothic punk' was used. I felt it was quite accurate and organic to be honest. 'Siouxsie & the Banshees' and 'The Damned' were established punk bands and part of the old school of punk rock, then Bauhaus and Sex Gang Children came along and there was a kind of a bridge. I had an older brother who had been an OG punk rocker and I described it to him as when punk became a fashion and you could buy ready-to-wear 'punk' outfits, the gothic punks were still making their own outfits, putting together bits and pieces and therefore were more 'punk' than the punks. He didn't like it but he agreed. 😂
lol Then Hot Topic & The Hot Topic Peeps Happened
Connor : "I'm expressing my lack of talent" killed me 🤣🤣 I thought your makeup was really cool ! And loved this video, i'm always SO happy when i see your new uploads ! You defo are a safe place to me, and my favorite youtubers ❤
it was good till he forgot he had lipstick on and started licking his lips making it run 😭😭
@@RaineBans 😂😂 even tho ! it gives a cool messy vibe :)
Love this! I'm definitely from the generation that when we think of Goth music and fashion, its all about The Cure, Siouxie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, and NIN. I didn't really know much about Emo as I was in my late 20's when most of it came out. I do love Ville Valo and HIM though.
Us Elder Goths used to make fun of Emos who listened to HIM. Sorry, kids. :/
@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396 Yeah I caught some flack for it. Curse my Glam Metal Heart! ❤️❤️❤️
The thing with emo is that it originally didnt come with fashion until the early 2000s. The haircut and bangs as well. I think mcr is mainly just rock music not really emo. I think the used, hawthrone heights and taking back sunday are more emo. I personally really liked rites of spring and sounds similar to these bands.
Elder Goth here. In the early/mid 80s we were listen to what you would call goth bands and dress black etc, yet was uncool to use the goth label, but we knew we were goth :P.
In the mid 80s you used to see punks, goths and new waves and metalheads. All had very distinctive looks and music they liked.
Emos started in mid 90s, Goths early 80s, so Emo took a big inspiration from the goth look. Goths were always into the music, you never used to see people dressed in black with the big hair that was not goths both in Italy and in London.
There were plenty of artists with big teased hair, dramatic makeup, wearing black, fishnet, leather and lace back in the 80s. Madonna, Bonnie Tyler, Jennifer Rush to mention some.
It seems to me that people identifying as goth have never bothered to look at what was going on outside your subculture.
I have been assumed goth several times (I'm 44 years old), but I never took my fashion inspiration from the goth subculture.
I found out just recently that Bauhaus "Rosegarden funeral of Sores" was actually a cover from John Cale from 1979. And I'm 52
Well the difference between goth and emo is the most important thing in the music like for Goth Music you can relax and also put some Emotion in it but for Emma music it's different it's a little bit louder harder but you also put you Emotion in it Also of course the different style the dress.
As a goth who lives the vampire lifestyle I have been labeled emo a time or two or like I'm dressing for Halloween all year. This video very helpful. Thank you guys. 🦇🩸🖤
Your makeup in this one is fucking awesome. Also I am a goth and always get called emo lmao
None of my Goth friends would ever take being called emo lightly.
As a Goth looking at this awesome video at 3am oh yea!!!
I always love listening to you when you are discussing the WikiHow thoughts on Goth :) :) My favorite non-Goth band is BlackBriar from the Netherlands. Some people call them Goth but others just classify them as metal. So they may not count. Other than them, there are so many I like. At the moment, I'm also thinking of Voluspa which is a small Viking band who have slowly been getting their footing and producing more music over the last few years. I love them and their adorable family
I love Shakira!!! I've been listening to her for about twenty-two years now, so my heart skipped a beat after you mentioned her. In fact, I have a funko of her close to my other funko of Robert Smith. I also love Ricky Martin and Enrique Iglesias, and I have seen them together live.
I was never emo, but I went through a phase of Avril Lavigne and Green Day--as well as The Used--during my Mansonite years in the mid-2000s.
Whoever mentioned "goth wave" in that post had to have been an American. I used to hear it all the time when I was involved with Obscura Undead in the past. Goth is simple: Post-punk, goth rock (three waves), deathrock, dark wave, cold wave, ethereal, and the New German Death Art movement. Sometimes neo-classical dark wave, but that one really depends on the band.
We'll see you in the next nightmare! Cheers!
*pours coffee and looks at the rain through the window*
I'm ready for the video ☕️
Love you guys 🖤
That sounds lovely 🖤☔️ We hope you enjoyed it and appreciate your support 🖤
@@Andrea-wb2mb as the sky opens up over Arkansas.
You have utterly surprised me this morning 😆 I am goth and the doors are my all time favorite band - I know every note, every lyric and never have I ever stopped to think and perceive them as an early goth band! That makes soo much sense now 😂 thank you 🙂🖤
For those interested in Screamo/Skramz: Frail Body put out their second album this year and Heavenly Blue put out their Debut record this year. Both great bands continuing the sound of Screamo.
For those interested in Post hardcore and Metalcore that are doing well in today’s world check out the following bands to get you started : SeeYouSpaceCowboy, If I Die First, Wristmeetrazor, Hail The Sun, Kaonashi, Foreign Hands, and Dying Wish.
Ohhh man, Frail Body is legit underrated. Some seriously good stuff that goes so hard but still hits me in the feels
This is definitely a video I've been excited for. Especially as an emo myself.
I'm visual kei I use to be punk :3
Gawd! Emos! So emotional! ... lol jfa
Connor had me laughing so hard that I had tears in my eyes. My favorite moment was Connor saying come at me coward. Connor is a bad ass! Told my wife that I got to have one of the very unchrist like behavior t-shirts. My favorite non-goth bands are AC/DC, Guns N Roses and Weird Al.
Gothic Rock became it's own identity from the late 80s to the late 90s imo being separated from deathrock/pistpunk/dark wave/goth wave etc
May it’s a really silly question but. What do both of you think about the South Park goth kids and the episode dawned on of the posers?
Btw I really enjoyed this video I hope you become more popular.
Hello from Spain
When I found you guys, you had 6,000 viewers. I miss those days.
We're still the same people Lewis and we're still here doing our thing 🥲 thank you for sticking with us!
"There's some back and forth on the scene about wether or not Molchat Doma is a goth band..."
Noo! I love them!
"But let's face it, we all love them."
Yay 🖤
I love Rihanna!! 😁😁 also really cool video, thank you for differentiating the two. I'm definitely emo, but appreciate the goth sound and aesthetic
Such good role models !
As an adult female goth; honestly, since I got called 'emo' as an insult so darned often back when I was a teenager, it's more the confusion between the two subcultures and the claim that 'it's the same, lol' that tends to annoy me a little. Like, nothing against the emos at all (you guys are cool in my book), I just wish that the morons who use that word as an insult would use their single brain cell to google the matter. Like, then they'd know that it's the music; come on, you can't tell me that My Chemical Romance and Paramore sounds the same as the the Sisters of Mercy and Sweet Ermengarde! So thank you two for explaining the difference to the regular folks; I'm sure that the emos appreciate it too.
Also, to all of you emo folks out there: hello, and so sorry that you all have to experience harassment as well. Also, your sassy comebacks to the weird barking that some idiots do are pure comedy gold, and I can't say that I'm not keeping a few of those in my back pocket for if I ever experience that. 🤣 Please don't let those morons get you down, okay?
Happy Goth Day! Guys!
Love the content you guys post and decided to subscribe! Would love to see a video on the difference between punk and goth if you both are willing to do that for another video!
Love the wikihow videos!
I like some albums that can be considered dream pop or ambient pop, such as Low Birth Weight by Piano Magic, Nektyr by Demen, and the works of Pram.
I can go from dark wave to dream pop and vaporware and back again in the same playlist 😂
@@MaxxRemKing1 wowww you’re sooooo quirkyyy that’s so weird you don’t just like one singular type of music??!?! And in the SAME PLAYLIST?!? You’re so different lmao!!! Who does that???! Hahahahahaha! Emoji emoji emoji
emo has gothic influences，many emo kids have gothic look, thats why they been called emo goth lol emo is like goth and punk/post hardcore have a son together
One time my dad said "emo is another word for goth". Mind y'all he was a boomer and didn't understand why I'm into these subcultures and their music. However he was willing to learn more about alternative culture, unfortunately he died earlier this year may he rest in peace. As someone who's goth or simply alternative, I love listening to artists like Fashion Bomb, Deadstar Assembly, Deathstars and My Chemical to artists like Hilary Duff, Jesse McCartney, Ryan Cabrera and The Veronicas at the same time. 2000s alternative pop culture is fun. Lately I've been on a punk kick too! 😅🖤
back in the late 1980s USA, we called it Death Rock and Goth Rock. for example Sisters of Mercy, etc...
I love darkwave! I feel it works well to interplay it with goth . I know the difference but sometimes i like to listen to both. In Australia, the emo fashions came out of the 90s alternative rock scene. Imagine emo now but in rainbow colour! Then they swapped it all for grey and horizontal striping. AND then they adopted bands that produced songs that fell into the genre well. I personally am not a fan but i do have emo friends.
Darkwave is goth. But a lot of modern synthpop and synthwave gets called darkwave, which has distorted the genre. She Past Away is goth; Drab Majesty is not.
We NEED more KawaiiBatFangz!!!
Was interesting seeing you two covering this. It was a topic of the ages. I listen to lots of Goth Rock but I also had fun making a Emocore Playlist on Spotify. Im getting old too.
I grew up during this split around 1991 and than I saw the Split between Emo and Scene.
I am a gothic person through and through and probably a lot older than you, I was getting beat up in high school in the late 80's for being one of 5 people that dressed goth and listened to the music. I literally slept in a coffin at 16 and my mom didn't know what to make of it. As far as Goth vs Emo, You guys nailed it. I mean, southpark tried to paraphrase it but they didn't do as good as a job as you. I no longer dress goth because I was born again 10 years ago, and as a Christian I have the freedom to dress like I used to, but for the sake of my personal evangelism I feel that I reach more people dressed casual jeans and t shirt. I know you were poking fun at Jesus, but anyways, I still make goth music tho (it is Christian themed) and you named some of my favorites,from the doors to SWS and SOM. Cool video!
Im really glad that you bothered on marking the core differences between cultures, because social media it's kind of provoking confusion between one and another :)
And I used to be old school punk so we need a video like this as well as the difference between Goth emo and punk Old school vs New
Interesting, and as an old school punk/goth/freak I would say… the worst thing you can do is label yourself. Most of the bands who were labeled goth weren’t actually trying to be goth. The best alternative people are people who don’t care what they are labeled, because they are secure in their own self.
The only people who care about labels are the people who are insecure about their own identity. If something makes you happy and you love it, then be happy and love it. If someone says you can’t do X,Y, or Z… F them and be happy they let you know not to be around them. Don’t look back. You are amazing and deserve to be happy. Nuffsed
I am glad you guys talked about this because I had a hard time knowing the difference between emo and Goth this helped me out a lot
We are happy to help 🖤
Thank you 💟
Taking Back Sunday *is* one of the biggest Third-Wave Emo bands (along with Dashboard Confessional).
I’ve had this argument with people since 07. Goth is a deep subculture made of various genres, various subsets, subculture’s within the subculture, there are Punk branches, industrial branches, rockabilly branches, New Wave branches, Glam branches, Classical or even Operatic branches, Techno branches of Goth even exist, and less popularly admitted slightly Metal influences like Type-O Negative or 69 Eyes etc.
Emo is just punk but way less cool,way less in your face, and way less politically provocative it became a new style randomly in the late 2000’s, and has no depth beyond lyrics that mostly pertain to the teen experience. The shelf life of being emo is short lived. You will look stupid dressing emo past the age of 16-22. Unlike Punk rockers who have members of that subcultures now in their late 70’s early 80’s. Like Goth Punk Grows with you. Emo looks pretty silly when your not a kid. Once again teen’s to very late teens, and for those clinging to it can get away with being Emo until 22, maybe 23 but a 25 yr old Emo is kinda embarrassing.
Goth even has a Corporate style for when you GROW UP and need to get a job, lol, Goth molds to you, aesthetically it grows with you, and you can get pretty creative with the style, you can Go high-fashion with it, you can go futuristic with it, you can go Victorian with it, you can be Punky with it, you can dress like a damn Goth Cowboy, or a Vampire, you really can do Goth however you want so long as you have the foundation of the music. Post-punk, Darkwave, Gothic Rock, Deathrock, future-pop, synth-wave, Industrial, Ethereal, etc.
Emo is just Emo. And screamo, and Pop punk. Which is Kinda trashy and silly looking on a grown adult. When Emo’s grow up they end up looking like Normie’s with tattoo’s. That’s it.
Yeah, you don’t see Emo extending as far into other subcultures as Goth. Emo is the teen who says “Let me alone!” And runs into their bedroom. They don’t want to go to steampunk parties or have fun. Goths have fun.
Completely different question - when are you going to do a report on Sacrosanct in Dublin?
I remember when an emo girl asked me out in high school back in like 2010 when skinny jeans started to become super popular, so all I wore was skinny jeans, vans, and snapbacks, and I played on the high school basketball team, so I was surprised an emo girl would be into me, but I said yes, and we dated for like 5 years. At first, we would get odd looks a Puerto Rican "fuckboy" dating a white goth girl but after a month, everyone just got used to it.
Bela Lugosi needs to catch up with goth music now that he's back 🦇
I’m sure he will be spotted out at all the goth nights now
Cheers! I stumbled to your channel because of the Download Festival....wow! You're both fun and entertaining.
As for "emo" definitely need to mention At the Drive-In and Mars Volta....will need to rewatch your previous shows before you turn Random Normal Couple! 😁😃❤🖤
Wait I love At the Drive-In... I never realized they are emo but I agree!
As an elder goth (with irish roots, escaping 28 years ago to Germany...) I am very surprised that Emo is still a thing. All I see down here are heavily inked, middleaged hipsters with stretched earlopes and skinny jeans with somekind of sordid sneakers from back then. Back in the sceane ueen days I got mistaken as Emo, casually wearing everyday garb ..Feck,I am old! ^^Emo is pretty dead, but goth never really died. (Could be my black bubble though and not being affected by hairloss ) - Post-Punk is a very loooooooong chapter in music history with recent terms. Everything and anything palatable for a goth taste gets announced as Post-Punk these days. Went to Midas Fall last week, will see Miranda Sex Garden next weeks, saw Lebanon Hanover and Bleib Modern in the past....All announced as Post-Punk. It's such a generic term these days. I think: "Post-Punk is dead!" ;)
How do you feel about goth-adjacent bands? VU, Stranglers, Damned, Leonard Cohen, Nico, Killing Joke, Black Sabbath, Lee Hazelwood, Scott Walker. I dunno, that may be a big stretch. I'm at work without work to do. Peace from New Mexico, USA. Also I love Napalm Death
just saw that there is/was a "portal" connecting new your to Ireland. supposedly the art piece has been shut down. i'm sure the artists had good intentions just like the person that brought us the internet. i heard that the person that brought the internet now regrets it. did you get a chance to visit this "portal"? i'm sure it would have made for a good video.
HAPPY WORLD GOTH DAY ........TO YOU BOTH.......as its the 22nd now when I'm sending this.
Johnny Lycan.
My favorite artist is Lynn on Ukulele! Very emo indeed.
Thank you 🖤🫣😂
I’ll have to do a cover of The Doors song one of the days
The early tailor swift, backstreet boys and spice grils😅🤩
well both are part of punk culture,emo originally was from emotional hardcore bands like rites of spring and Indiana summer and others and goth punks were even in 80s part of punk ,idk if like this now
The original goth was Edgar Allan Poe
Finally, a huge light and guide to clarify that, as a goth I've been called emo, satanic and even metalhead just because I wear black clothes and make up, It's great to differ between one sub-culture and the other through true information and examples like the ones you have shown in the video, I also love your goth subculture styles' series btw, hugs 🖤🖤
My favorite pop singer has always been Hilary Duff. I just absolutely love her 😂. Also, I absolutely love Kazumasa Oda and the group WorldOrder. Genki Sudo has my heart 😆🫶
looking forward to Lynn's first single, crying in the park
I get alot were people call me emo which pisses me off😤😤😤😤😤 also I love the your makeup it reminds of my makeup!!!!!!!!😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
So I consider myself as a Goth but I also looooove disco and jazz. Especially Bosa Nova jazz. I genuinely love so many genres it makes my head spin. However I’d say my clothing choice as of now is like if a hobbit turned into a vampire who is also inspired by Peter Steele 😂
Frank Iero is too busy doing dad rock to come after you. But glad to hear you enjoyed the 1st solo album. LOL
Emo is so hard to categorize for me; I had never thought of Jimmy Eat World as Emo before, but I can see it. But then, there's also so many arguments over what is Goth music (actually, what is NOT Goth music). It all blurs along the edges. I don't take active part in either, but listen to both. And I always prefer black and skulls over other clothing and accessories. Getting to experience both subcultures as an adult usually means I've added bits of each to the overall of who I am.
I always thought it was Peter Murphy who attached the term "Goth" to those people that attended Bauhaus concerts. I was told that the scenario was that Murphy was looking at the crowd at a concert and likened the scene to the "goths" of old invading a city. LOL.
Love your videos hope you do a callab with its black Friday someday
If there was a battle between goths and emos, I’m betting my money on the goths. Them huge platform boots and chains are lethal💀
Let's be real...the emos would want to talk it out. 🤔
@@mikemurphy5898 lets be real the emos would cry in a corner it's kind of their whole thing, and on brand.
sipping on feelings of the past, walking threw the past, nostalgia called me to the place I once belonged, but the vampire man sucked away soul because he would'nt let me in, his boots and chains beat me down as I drowned in a river of my tears, but then we talked it out and made in the in the back it was the corner of the coffee shop I could not stop these tears of joy. their see I just wrote a hit emo song about it tell me that's not on point.
@@AmipotsophspondYou should market this. Find a good Emo band name. :)
I dunno, the emos tend to be a lot younger and fitter.
depends on what kind of goth it is. deathrockers have being a punk going on. punks are more of a fighters. but like the post above, emos are usually fit
Love y’all’s style
I saw johnnie guilbert, what a surprise lol
Made me so happy to hear you say "that's just darkwave" as that is exactly what I was thinking as you were reading the "gothwave" nonsense- since yeah, that is just darkwave. 🤣
Baby's In Black. The Beatles, Paint it Black, The Rolling Stones. I like to think of these of some of the first "Goth Songs"
I honestly sort of don't know exactly what I am still. I was bullied years ago back in high school, and they used to call me emo non stop and people would say I cut myself and all these other lies they came up with that weren't true lol. I was sheltered a lot so I didn't know anything or what to call my style besides goth or punk rock . I actually have like the same exact style as Johnnie Guilbert if you know who that is, but I'm not a dude and my outfits are just like a female version of his. I didn't even know of the guys existence until some time back in maybe August 2023 or a little before so I was kind of surprised when I discovered him because his style was like exactly like mine and I never really ever saw or met anyone who had the same exact taste in style. I actually had compliments by some individuals that know me in real life saying oh its you as a dude, when they saw something of Johnnie Guilbert lol. He calls himself emo so I'm guessing I could just emo as well but I do love Goth style , emo style and punk rock style. I love the color black more then any other color but I like to wear other colors and designs as well like my Leopard dress and my white dress with black bracelets. Sometimes I wear this tyedye looking dress with my black leather bracelet that has silver metal ring holes lol. I get creative with what I have and what family give me as gifts during occasions like holidays or my birthday.
OK have u ever noticed that when emos talk to u they use a lot old skater words that had banded from the dictunsry 😊
My favorite current pop artist is Ava Max or Dua Lipa… if I had to go classical it is gonna be Backstreet Boys
Where is Johnny Guilbert in the comments?
❤❤I'm goth and totally agree with your sayings also the doors I'd agree absolutely goth rock
I think Venus In Furs is an early goth sound. And some other VU and some Doors songs
14:41 If you get cold, wear a sweater. Hahaha! 🤣 Good advice. 👏🖤🦇
i love you guys! Jesus is our homie
We would joke that "An emo is a goth that can't commit." The main resentment goths had with the emo subculture was mostly just about normies mistaking goths for emo...either they didn't know the difference, or they knew it gets under our skin! Didn't really take issue with emos really, other than thinking the perhaps were bogarting the style somewhat. I would imagine most goths would be welcoming to emos...already darkly inclined we would of course endeavor to put them on the *ahem* "correct" musical journey. I wonder though, are there any "Elder Emos" or is that not a thing?
Wait but i don't listen to any music you mentioned. For starter i consider myself Metalhead in terms of music i listen to, but i love the aesthetic of black clothes, victorian-vampiric-esk outfits combined with love for horror and the beauty i find in death. What tag would that be? just plain Gothic? Great content btw!
Surpsied the completely ignoring of gothic metal which is by far my fave and one of if not the main modern genre
I don’t have a specific subculture I’m just alternative I like alottt of it but ppl mostly call me emo 😭😭
Well you are crying about it 😂 haha jk
Hi thanks I watch thing like this when I am dored but it not just music based it also pegan root in those looks good luck with everything
I like The Shroud, but I really liked Shampoo when I lived in Scotland.
My heart is black and my exterior is beige. 🌹🌹🌹
South Park wants to know your location....
I love 🎶🖤☠️🔥 The HU 🔥☠️🖤🎶 For those that haven't heard them, they're a badass metal band from Mongolia, that utilize Mongolian throat singing, as well as an electric horse loot that sounds just like a horse whaling! They're EPIC
After Vincent Price, was The Dead boys. On 8-track tape. The birthday party, the gang of four, Robert Gordon and the tough darts, Iggy and the stooges, and you know the rest if you haven't heard of the passage. King crimson not exactly adjacent but worth the effort. I did watch television on a vacuum tube set. Was that back in the Cambrian era?
My hero’s looking o so Frightfully fantastic as always honestly even though we goths are the best I can see both parts when sum say hell na we’re not alike or there just the same 🦇🖤❤️🖤❤️🖤❤️🖤🦇🦇🦇