The fully integrated builds of most main stream brands has held me back from pulling the trigger on a new bike from one of the popular brands. I want to be able to spec out everything: Crank length, chainring size, cassette size, saddle, seat post setback, bar shape and stem length & rise. None of this is easily done when buying off the shop floor, unless you go with just a frame and then build it up from there. Which is what I have done since 1992.
@@charliedillon1400 I would have to disagree. For comparable level of specs, the price is about the same. In fact, prior to this latest shortage, I could get complete groupsets way cheaper than any retail shop would sell for. The big mfgr's are not giving anything away for cheap, unless they are giving you cheaper parts where you don't tend to look: wheels, stem, tires, saddle and bars. Once the price level gets above about $5000, I want exactly what I want on the bike, no compromises. Anything bought off the shop floor will be a compromise, unless at the top end, but you still get the house brand parts which may or may not be what you wanted.
@@morningtidefilms A few yrs ago I built a Bianchi Infinito CV with campy record 11 sp. Ordered the frame on sale from Colorado Cyclist and the components from Britain and Europe websites for much less than US prices. So I got a Campy Record 11 spd Bianchi with Campy Bullet wheels and 3T stem/bars for about $6500. Of course I had pedals. But if you play it smart, you can make a frame last a long time. My other bike is a 2014 CAAD10 with a Campy 12 speed R/SR mix with WTO wheels. Built it last fall for about $4500. Again all new parts and wheels ordered online from overseas, only kept the old seat post and saddle (which themselves were only 2 yrs old). The bike industry wants consumers and Cyclists to think they have to keep up with the tech. But the reality is these frames can last if you don't break them in a crash, which I have also done. Key thing though, it pays to be able to do ALL of your own maintenance. If you rely only on bike shop maintenance, your stuff won't last as long. But......if I decide to go Disc/Electronic, then it's a whole new deal... That first jump won't be cheap.
My 2021 TCR advanced Pro Custom Build is not integrated and one of the reasons I chose that over the SL7 frameset! On reflection I’m so glad I went with the Giant 😬
This is a big reason why I’m such a fan of the setup on the new Trek Emonda. It’s not fully integrated because the cables pop out underneath the stem and there’s then a plate that bolts up to keep the cables tight to the stem/handlebar. Achieves 95% of the benefit with only 30% of the effort
True, as a result of all of these innovation hypes, self-servicing, fitting, and customization have become more challenging. Changing the stem size is no longer a simple process. As a consumer, your reliance on a professional mechanic increases, as do your expenses. Many thanks, CT for speaking out
Man I’ve never watched any of these videos from this Channel. But I love the bald dude. He’s got so many points and is very clear and to the point. Yes sir!
I've been riding since shift levers were on the downtube (and didn't go, "click") and brake cables came out of the top of the brake levers. no friggin' way I'd try to set up/service one of these integrated systems. that said, looks pretty sweet.
One of my friends had a 2x8 speed bike with friction shifters. He rode with me just fine. Hard to beat that setup in terms of cost, compatibility and maintenance. I also think they look freaking hot on steel bikes.
Same here I wouldn’t dream of adjusting myself…look cool as f…k when all cables hidden in my opinion…not that looking cool should bother me as I’m 55 today 🤷♂️
Integrated systems aesthetically look good, no question, but a real challenge if you are travelling with a bike bag. From experience, any bike bag that does not require you to remove the bars, has the higher risk of being damaged in transit. I have tried various integrated bar/stem combo's and agree, its something very difficult to dial in and have limitations on mounting accessories outside of the out front mounts.
I fully agree with James comment about proper fitting on the bike gets you the best results and your're spending over $10,000 on bike for that reason. I went with a custom frame builder who got the fit dialed in for me better than any bike I have ever purchased from a shop. That bike cost me more than $11,000 and does not have hidden cables in the stem. I can use any stem and bar from any aftermarket brand and at some point in the future will probably need to change something because my body is getting old and changing. In the last 20 years I have lost almost an inch of my height. I get joint pains from arthritis which has put me in a more upright position. It's crazy to spend over $10K for a bike where the brand dictates how you are going to be positioned. Believe me you won't enjoy riding that bike very long, I know because I've had those bikes.
One piece cockpits are a physiotherapist wet dream. As James said, how many people are riding these that just don't fit properly and it's costing them not only watts but physical issues both now and later on. I love the look of the integration but not at the cost of safety or dollars. I like that it's pushing the boundaries and at some point they'll get it right, just wish there was a governing body that could ensure more rigorous design and safety outcomes because rubbed brakes cables and sheered off steerer tubes should not be occurring for aesthetics. I'm happy with a few cables sticking out neatly, i.e. TCR if it means I can be safer bombing down my local hills at 80+ km/h and not worrying about a steerer failure and I can work on the bike myself. Having said that what Trek and Allied have done is spot on, somewhat integrated but easily maintainable.
Fit is everything. And for me, it can take a series of tweaks over weeks or months to get really dialled in. I couldn’t buy a one piece unless I could test it for weeks first. It’s a shame.
Integrated cockpits are a cancer…reviewers need to start calling this disease out. Thankyou CT and James in particular for your work here. Preferred bike fit undergoes subtle changes over time,with training,varying conditions and injury to name a few. Integration makes optimisation an expensive,time consuming irritation. All for the sake of “clean lines”. The days of slapping on a cheap stem from Wiggle or CRC to finesse with position seem to be passing.
OF COURSE they are dumb!!! Just like integrated seat masts, they leave you with no options if you want to customize your fit, replace worn or damaged parts or buy/sell a used bike to someone with slightly different dimensions. Simpler setups are not only cheaper, they make fitting SO much quicker and easier!
I will not buy a bike with an integrated cockpit and hidden cables. I wouldn't even want one if it was given to me. I want something that fits my corpus and that I can easily work on. Give me a round tubed frame. If the cables and housing have to make a brief run through a tube or down tube, that's okay, but there will be no cables or hoses that turn internally through handlebars, stems, or headsets. Frankly, I'd be just as happy with external cables.
As an upgrade I'll take an externally routed one piece bar and stem all day everyday! When I last shopped for a frame if a frame came with an integrated bar/stem I'd always ask if it could be supplied without it as stock options never matched my requirement.
Agree, I like the idea of hiding the cables under the stem and then go into the head set better then routing the cables inside the cockpit. The first at least makes swapping the cockpit easier. I have a Scott Gravel and the integrated cockpit is a PITA.
If I want to see a clean cockpit I ride my track bike. Otherwise, out on the road with some cables showing here and there just reminds me that I "can" stop pedalling! ;-)
Totally agree . I own a BMC Roadmachine 01 from 2019 and easily swapped my handlebar after 500 km to one from ENVE. How can we explain to the marketing people of the big bike manufactures the important difference between unique selling point (USP) and customer value?
Integrated cockpits look awesome. If I can get width and length I want, I'm getting one on the next bike. I like how Ribble does it, offering you a choice when ordering the bike. Others will need to follow suit.
i'm looking for buy an endurance al to when they make the integrated HB avaible in that model. like the solution they have in the eletric version of the model
I agree with your summary on this topic and appreciate your honesty. Too many channels today are obviously promtIng these handlebars since they are getting paid to by the manufacturers and not for their benefits or lack of to the average rider. Bike fit trumps all in cycling not to mention some of the safety compromises made with these integrated designs. Some of these designs are just plain dangerous and if you are not mechanically inclined in order to keep an eye on these systems you can have a major failure occur . You can't get aerodynamic benefits if you happen to plant your face in the tarmac.
I like my round bars because accessories fit. I like normal stems because like 2 days ago I went to the bike shop and walked out with the stem I needed. Easy.
I always flip my stem up and sometimes change to a shorter stem and rotate bars up a little. And my Garmin mounts, light and GoPro mounts are all designed for round bars. These integrated stem/bars immediately rule those bikes out.
The cable entry ports at the front (like Trek / Cannondale) should be on every road bike IMO. That's more than neat / aero enough, and still allows whatever stem / bar you want or which fits you. But fully integrated ... nah. Not keen.
My crystal ball says the 'big thing' will be upgrading the lowly Adjustable Stem to a Popper stem, a trigger actuated instant upright riding position. No bike w/ a dropper post will be complete w/out one. If you label it 'Gravel Specific' you can double the markup. They will be great w/ Wireless breaking, plus what a boon to the Tort Lawers of the world.
Interesting analysis. One phrase that caught my ear was 'high-end bikes'. Knowing that many high-end bikes will be used for racing. My opinion is that the majority of the cycling public will not be dropping $5K+ on a high-end bike.
True. I know some dedicated cyclists that would love to buy a new bike but won't spend $3K. And from what I've seen these last 3 years it is probably a good guess that these companies lost that group for future sales. $5 to $6K for a bicycle is a lot of money to spend even for people with good incomes. Makes sense to finance a car but not good sense to finance a bicycle. Bicycles just don't hold any value once used.
I just baught a new frame from Bianchi - and that is one of two reasons why I did not buy the Oltre Pro or Oltre RC but the older Oltre XR4; need some time to find one as it is no longer produced, but happily found one and can now build the bike to my needs
People who loves integrated everything are usually triathletes who's biggest maintenance job is to unbolt a regular bottle cage to put an aero bottle cage on. Even if you ignore the ease of maintenance, not being able to customise the cockpit component without replacing the whole thing is costly and inconvenient. Thanks CT for speaking the truth rather than pushing aero gains/savings bs when the vast majority of people don't need it.
It was when i heard the Canyon design guys saying on your nerd alert pod last year that they recommended that only Canyon mechanics work on the new cockpit that i realised that integrated cockpits were not the way to go for me. Hell, i dont even have (or want) internal cabling! :)
I think something to take into consideration is the wages. The shop I worked at paid me $13/hr and the head mechanic made $17. So the shop is only really eating ~$70 in labor to do these swaps if free and the shop gets a happy customer who just bought a 5 figure bike. I would normally do the bulk of the work and the head mechanic would consult as necessary on the high dollar builds. I quit due to low wages but they still have people willing to work for that price. I think if shops paid bike mechanics like other skilled mechanics things might be different.
I think I'd be a bit concerned with a guy making just $13 an hour working on my electronic/hydraulic bicycle. Back in my day we used to joke about having "grommets" at "$Minimum wage + all they could steal" working...but they didn't touch anything important until they were properly trained.
What are You guys talking about… Integrated cockpit means more trips to LBS. That means more money spent at LBS. At some point being at the LBS I will get the idea that my 6 month old bike is too old while looking at all the new shiny bikes and buy a new one. The economy grows, everybody gets paid, everybody wins! Only problem is that I spent too much money on an unnecessary stuff… 🤷🏻♂️
Lets see how that system works when the shops start telling customers you have to drop the bike off and leave it and it will be a couple of weeks before they can get to it. A lot of shops are already doing that here in Pa. That's why people are bringing their bikes to me for the tune up instead of taking it to a shop. I've worked on about three dozen bikes this year and they all told me the same story. Shops are full and also charging about $60 an hour for labor. I usually do the work for a bottle of wine and the cost of parts. It seems to me with disc brakes and the integrated cables the time involved to service a bike is going to go way up.
Same way the motorcycle industry went, no backstreet repair shops anymore just shiny plate glass tiled floor showrooms with "No Entry" workshops like operating theatre's
@@404nobrakes maybe you should look up broken window theory yourself. It's not relevant to this topic anyway. And fallacy is a claim, not a truth. Because It had nothing to do with this subject your comment qualifies as true UA-cam 'tardness.
You are 100% right about integrated cables... BUT there is a ton of other things that make little sense for most riders- "aero" frames (no frame makes a real world aero difference), carbon wheels (unless you are a pro carbon wheels are unnecessary) Electronic shifting (mechanical groups are so good there was no need for electronic).
Standard drop bars, stems, and non-integrated wires are cheaper to buy, offer more flexible options, easy to service and repair, and most of all, they work just fine. If it ain't broke........
It's important to know your bike fit measurements, ideally by a professional, and compare those numbers to whatever bike you purchase next. Stack, reach, seat post setback, and cockpit measurements are critical. What you will find is simply most "off the shelf" complete bikes don't fit most people. I understand most people don't wanna build a custom bike, but the argument can be made especially when desiring an integrated cockpit.
Many of these integrated cockpits are very aero riding position which means extremely bent forward and horridly uncomfortable! I could not possibly imagine riding just about any high performance road bike any further than the end of my street without getting back pain and numb hands which is what happened with my Warbird until I changed the setup. I was this close to doing a flat bar conversion or just selling it until I opted for an angled stem with wider, more flared bar for a more upright and comfortable riding position.
For most bikes these days all we really need is some kind of quick connect/disconnect for brake lines… not sure if it’s possible or not but would sure make things a lot easier.
As long as there is no compromise in fit the advantage of an integrated bar and stem, in addition to the improved aesthetics of the bike (not to be downplayed), is a few less parts to clean and maintain as well as a better cable path (if the bars are designed well). I just recycled my 2011 Madone 9-series after 60,000 miles and, with a professional fit (the cost of which was included in the price of the bike, as it should be), and I never once adjusted the bars/stem. However, I cannot tell you how many times I cleaned the little bolt-heads and seams, etc. at the bar/stem transition. I would gladly swap for an integrated if it improved aesthetics/maintenance while not sacrificing fit. Keep in mind that there are a lot of road cyclists out there that are not professionals but do ride 5,000-7,000+ miles a year. It's a serious hobby/sport and someone who spends this much time on the bike should have the best equipment.
Buying a bike with an integrated cokpits has been a nightmare since I can't make minor adjustments to fit me. The practical must prevail over the aesthetic. I will never repeat this mistake.
i bought a Cervelo Soloist S1 frame for $300 and absolutely love it. It was their first super aero bike, it's aluminium, has a threaded BB, I just added bits and bobs from the internet (ebay) and stuff on sale. I reckon the whole thing cost under a $1000 and thats with 3T carbon bars (ebay), an awesome Look AStem (ebay), 105 drivetrain ($200 used off ebay), plus Shimano rs81 C35 wheels (bought separately off ebay $150 each, both were new but the rear came without a spindle which I bought afterwards). It not only looks the part, thanks in part to the former owner who looked after the frame but it is as you mention light yet strong and extremely fast and easy to maintain. If you get it get the Cervelo S2 it'll make an awesome bike, the frame hasn't dated at all in my opinion. I'm already on the look out for one !!
ABSOLUTELY . . . integrated cockpits in my view, LOOK a HELL of a lot better than the generic 4 bolt thingys which ARE practical for their quick change versatility but look SO damn awkward aesthetically. THE best way to go about buying your CORRECT integrated cockpit is to ride your stock configuration and make changes in stem length to IT until you feel totally comfortable AFTER SEVERAL RIDES and THEN buy the integrated that you like as long, obviously, as it comes in the exact size you need. The Black Inc Integrated for example has 19 (!) choices of width/stem sizes and looks really nice IMHO. The Vision Tech looks very high "aviation tech" too . . .
Integrated cockpits / proprietary components are some of the dumbest products out on the market as of right now. Sure it may look “nice” and keep cables “tidy” however no average rider needs that. It’s just another marketing scheme to steal your money on shit you don’t need. Not to mention the fact that once something does go wrong you’re not able to replace easily at times due to lack of immediate availability or cost. Stick to the classic good ‘ol stems, bars, seatpost, etc. Also, people seem to forget that set up and installation is not as easy as it seems and also not as easy as “set it and forget it”
The Cockpits are just the tip of the problem. I hate to mention Rim/Disc brake, but give us the choice. I do not need carbon wheels,(alloy/Rim brake) is what works best for where and how I ride. I do not race, or a Pro, (average speed 15mph). I would rather be comfortable than Aero.
Crazy, Fully integrated has its place when you are racing or on a TT bike where every second counts, but to the average cyclist it is more of a hassle to deal with and stem and handlebar are limited. I prefer fully external cabling all the way.
What a 💰 grab they are. Wait 5 years and you crash and you can't get a replacement. Good on you guys for calling out what garbage integrated cockpits are
I work at a bike shop. We sell a couple of integrated cockpits (Scott Foil). We definitely do not have any ability to switch cockpits for you. We are a Scott dealer but not a Scott owned shop. If they wanted a different cockpit they would have to buy it themselves at their cost and then we could install it for them but now they'd have an extra cockpit.
I'm pretty sure when you buy Canyon that happens too. I bought from them but it was 4 years ago. But I wasn't able to choose my stem length. They said I would have to send the one it came with back to them and then they'd send me a longer one. So I've heard conflicting views about how amenable Canyon is to fit changes. Maybe it has changed since.
@@alantaylorfarnes Because I remember the Foil doesn't have a different headset dust cover to allow the use of other stems. For the Addict RC, I'm very sure it doesn't.
It seems that the bike manufacturers have a "want their cake and eat it" attitude, they want everything to be in-house produced and any change to touch point components is not an easy change, and of course certainly it will only be a change with their own components. I do feel like all of this integration is quite pointless other than making the bikes look exceptionally slick. Speaking from a mechanics perspective also, when the first Venge Vias was released I remembered thinking "what an absolutely ridiculous idea' to have everything integrated, and lets face it, the integration was terrible in operation. I can also guarantee that any customer that bought one of those bikes or subsequent bikes was not informed that you would have to dismantle all of the front end just to change the headset bearings, and that it may also require new hoses/cables and several hours of labour all at a higher cost to the customer. I'm all for progress in bikes and the technology that goes into them but we do get lots of decisions pushed onto us from component and bike manufacturers.
I always thought one piece cockpit was a bad idea but I got sucked in by the Roval Alpinist for my Aethos. At least the Aethos is easy to work on and I’ve got to admit the cockpit feels sweet. I did have to size up the bar from 40 to 42 to get the stem length I wanted so not perfect.
The Bontrager Aeolus RSL is another one-piece cockpit I don't hate. It's got a gutter for the shift and brake lines to blend into. The only con? That 100 mm handlebar reach, way too long for me (70 - 80 mm is OK for me).
I think all these bike manufacturers are trying too hard to make something that is already good, better. But is it really? They want change and not the same design year after year. Stick with the traditional stem and handlebar. You can have it any shape or size, heavy or lightweight, flashy or straight black. Plus, its way more home mechanic friendly. Cyclists who grew up decades ago will understand this. And finally, disc brakes on a road bike??.......nope.
Remember. Ridning your bike at peak fitness demands a longer/lower Bikefit. Moving into winter the intensity and form drops and the needs of the rider changes. Integrated cockpits makes that transition very difficult.
100% feel same. I get that maintaining 50 SKU's is a nightmare, but the problems caused by integrated bars still stands. Moreover, not all bike brands today will swap an appropriately sized 1-piece bar to you for free even if they make the right size. The biggest irony still, is that people who run long & narrow don't have a choice in the first place because the longest 38cm bar offered is a 90mm reach. Good luck controlling those deep section wheels, which, unironically, come standard off the rack.
Not only do integrated cockpits make no sense for most people, neither does internal cable routing. Both have no value for 99% of riders whatsoever outside of appearance... and in exchange, you wreck serviceability. Form should follow function... if they don't, you're doing life itself wrong. We already understand this when it comes to frame geometry... why not everything else? Blah, blah, blah aero benefits -- hogwash. If you're competing in the pro peloton, yeah, every fraction of a percent of advantage counts... and you constitute 0.008% of the bicycle market, and you aren't even really choosing your bike. Protecting cables from the elements; a friggin' bolt-on shroud that attaches to the frame can do that, and it's been done before. The Giant Roam series used to do that up until 2021. It's a hybrid meant for a larger slice of the market than most bikes, but that's exactly what makes it a good design decision. Both of these things are just monetizing image, and that makes them nothing more than a scam for anyone within 4 standard deviations of the mean.
Couldn’t agree more - poor engineering (SL 7), lack of fit options and makes maintenance a nightmare for what benefit. I would buy a Giant - there is a reason they haven’t done this.
Integrated cockpits provide marked improvements in pilot/ aircraft interface. Ergonomically placing the avionics, flight controls, heads up display, etc, allows the pilot to safely and more efficiently make timely decisions with better situational awareness and information feedback.
There was, once upon a time, an issue with brake levers being aero, i.e., housing under the tape... Where people brought up 'my hands could slip off the hoods easier if there's no housing there'..... And we know how common aero brake levers are now... I would agree, it appears that setting up the cockpit with 'everything' being hidden, it's more of a pain in the ass, but it's more than likely here to stay.... Unless you're a retro guy, and run brake levers that aren't aero, and downtube shift levers (which is what MY Merckx MX-Leader has).... It's a matter of taste.
My bike have it and I didnt have any issue un the last 8 months. I know my position in the bike and I dont have plan to change the brake lines, to be honest it's not a problem at all for me
Well they do make the bike look gorgeous to a degree that I want to use it more.. Just as with running shoes that I tend to want to use more if they look great, so it takes less energy for me to start which means that I can put more energy into the run and get better training session.
I love the integrated system and my Tarmac SL7 looks neat! I will not return to my old setup (dangling cables) No problem so far with my setup (integrated). Integration is the future!
Making the handlebar/stem more aero is important when your downtube is 5 inches (12.5 cm) wide. I'm speaking to you Trek with down tube on the Domane so wide they can place a barn door.
The look of these cockpits is super clean. If you run a sram wireless setup its not that big of a deal because you just have to deal with the hoses. If I had mechanical cables I would not have chosen a bike with internal routing. It would be too much of a pain to change cables.
Can't prove you wrong on that one. If you are lucky and a standlebar exists that matches your current bar/stem set up, then definitely get one, because they do look good!
Made me feel good when James noted a stem swap could be a 5 hour project...for a pro wrench. I spent an entire day swapping a bar/stem with this internal crap on my own bike and figured if (gawd forbid) I had to do it again it would be a 1/2 day task. WTF they can't come up with a way to get the hoses/cables/wires up outta the head tube so they could then be routed under the stem (perhaps under a cap like the FSA thing my bike came with?) and then either inside a channel molded into the carbon handlebar (or just under the tape like I did with an aluminum bar) escapes me. Everyone could have their clean "aero" hidden cable/hose/wire look without hours of work just to swap a bar or stem!!! Who thinks this s__t up? I feel sorry for those who have to work on this crap for a living!!!
Someone needs to invent a brake hose fittings for bikes like the push in shark bite used in plumbing world. These could be installed at the stem and make disconnecting and shortening easy. Combined with wireless shifting group sets, bleeding brakes would be the worst of the process.
Day late and a dollar or few shorter at the time of watching, but like this review! Good aspects on both sides of the debate and as a competitive local racer. Agree to point if you're going to go with the integrated cockpit, you should have a detailed fit, which won't be included in price point. Your recreational competitive rider would definitely be better off with standard set up for adjustability. Bottom line if your going to the top end bike with an integrated cockpit, drop $400-$500 on a fit that makes sure your not going to have to spend more down the road changing components.
I had a customer who's buying a new bike asking if I can switch its cockpit to a one-piece unit right from the get-go, to which I told him to get a professional bike fit first because this bike is completely new to him and he has no idea what cockpit dimensions fit him yet. I'm reluctant to sell one-piece cockpits unless it's been proven the customer has already got the fit dialed in.
I predict it's a fad for super high end bikes which are purchased by older riders with lots of money and who probably don't ride all that much. Anyone who rides a lot and does their maintenance and small tweaks to handlebars and stem will steer clear IMO. Sure, it does look cool.
Easy, and warranted, to hate on Spesh- especially w the SL7 compression ring:fork disaster -but the way that they’ve done a 2-piece integrated stem with bar, and ability to swap and mix and match without re-running the cables, as they’ve done on the Tarmac and Venge, is a great way to get the aesthetics of a 1-piece; aero benefit of full integration; and not lose the 2-piece ease of use & customization of position.
And you didn't even touch on the topic of hugely increased headset bearing service and replacement costs which for hydraulic brake bikes also means recutting the hoses to fit a new barb and olive and so after a couple of changes of bearing new hoses will be needed also.. Look good yes, more expensive to live with? hell yes
As far as I know most bicycles with integrated cockpits still have a port for outside routing. I like the option. Also, if you can‘t build your own bike you should probably leave the brake hoses to the professional.
They look good... But I'm putting 120 stems on my road bike. It's the only way for me to get the increase of power and core engagement I need. Most people don't know that they need an increased stem length to maximize their ride.
I agree. They make little sense to the average rider. But for a different reason. A lot of integrated cockpits have steering limiters. And novice to avid riders crash more than pros. A seemingly gentle spill can deem a head tube unsafe and be very expensive.
If you buy a Ferrari you can expect the service and parts to be just as pricey. This is why most people can not afford a Ferrari, they buy a Honda Accord. JMO.
As somebody who's built his 4 last bikes, cables hidden in the frame is neat, but at the cockpit? No thanks, the supposed loss in watt does not matter to me.
What the guy on the right said. This is so led by marketing and aesthetics. An engineer at a desk that gets given a brief by marketing with mechanics put second (no after thought). I've got my first fully integrated road bike and I got the well experience LBS to build. They spent all day on it as it was a pain in the arse. Lesson from this vid' is get a fit first, even before buying if you can. They'll advise on type of bike and geometry while having you on a jig. I see so many cases of expensive bikes and saddles either too low or high or overstretched riders. You've spent $1000's spent a couple of hundred on a "qualified" bike fitter not just a shop say so and enjoy you'll ride more.
Proper fit is key. Know your fit either from sufficient experience or from a professional (qualified) fitter. I would never buy a bike that doesn’t fit … whether a $5k bike or a $15k bike. Fit includes proper handlebar rise, reach, width and drop. So it’s gotta fit riding on 3 points of the bar … 1) the top bar, 2) the hoods and 3) the drops. I believe many neglect the proper drop so they can never comfortably and properly ride in the drops.
I don’t hate them, they make sense with electronic shifting and are more aero. But how many of us have a personalized $10,000 road bike? So I stick with easy repairs and installation parts that fit my wallet.
I like internal cable routing but only the ones where the cables enter the frame from the downtube as this makes swapping the front end easier and servicing it. I won't buy a fully integrated bike as this reduces my options and makes life harder for me.
The fully integrated builds of most main stream brands has held me back from pulling the trigger on a new bike from one of the popular brands. I want to be able to spec out everything: Crank length, chainring size, cassette size, saddle, seat post setback, bar shape and stem length & rise. None of this is easily done when buying off the shop floor, unless you go with just a frame and then build it up from there. Which is what I have done since 1992.
Me too , im 6 ' 3 " and i like to fine tune my fit on the bike
Me too…old school approach of frame first always always best. I ride saddle, crank length and bars that you just don’t get on a complete bike.
@@charliedillon1400 I would have to disagree. For comparable level of specs, the price is about the same. In fact, prior to this latest shortage, I could get complete groupsets way cheaper than any retail shop would sell for. The big mfgr's are not giving anything away for cheap, unless they are giving you cheaper parts where you don't tend to look: wheels, stem, tires, saddle and bars. Once the price level gets above about $5000, I want exactly what I want on the bike, no compromises. Anything bought off the shop floor will be a compromise, unless at the top end, but you still get the house brand parts which may or may not be what you wanted.
@@charliedillon1400 not when you’ve got all the bits to transfer from another bike. Complete bike benefits manufacturers.
@@morningtidefilms A few yrs ago I built a Bianchi Infinito CV with campy record 11 sp. Ordered the frame on sale from Colorado Cyclist and the components from Britain and Europe websites for much less than US prices. So I got a Campy Record 11 spd Bianchi with Campy Bullet wheels and 3T stem/bars for about $6500. Of course I had pedals. But if you play it smart, you can make a frame last a long time. My other bike is a 2014 CAAD10 with a Campy 12 speed R/SR mix with WTO wheels. Built it last fall for about $4500. Again all new parts and wheels ordered online from overseas, only kept the old seat post and saddle (which themselves were only 2 yrs old).
The bike industry wants consumers and Cyclists to think they have to keep up with the tech. But the reality is these frames can last if you don't break them in a crash, which I have also done.
Key thing though, it pays to be able to do ALL of your own maintenance. If you rely only on bike shop maintenance, your stuff won't last as long.
But......if I decide to go Disc/Electronic, then it's a whole new deal... That first jump won't be cheap.
My 2021 TCR advanced Pro Custom Build is not integrated and one of the reasons I chose that over the SL7 frameset! On reflection I’m so glad I went with the Giant 😬
SL7 is not integrated though 🤔
This is a big reason why I’m such a fan of the setup on the new Trek Emonda. It’s not fully integrated because the cables pop out underneath the stem and there’s then a plate that bolts up to keep the cables tight to the stem/handlebar. Achieves 95% of the benefit with only 30% of the effort
@James Huang would you say the new émonda is a stiffer, better race bike than the new TCR?
@@ayowser01 probably same stiffness. Unless you’re a pro you most likely will not notice
@@loc9588 TCR is lighter and cheaper though
@@marcuscheung5025 seems like the better option
@@loc9588 yup, +1 on the tcr. Tolerances and bb86 are also ++
True, as a result of all of these innovation hypes, self-servicing, fitting, and customization have become more challenging. Changing the stem size is no longer a simple process. As a consumer, your reliance on a professional mechanic increases, as do your expenses. Many thanks, CT for speaking out
Man I’ve never watched any of these videos from this Channel. But I love the bald dude. He’s got so many points and is very clear and to the point. Yes sir!
I've been riding since shift levers were on the downtube (and didn't go, "click") and brake cables came out of the top of the brake levers. no friggin' way I'd try to set up/service one of these integrated systems. that said, looks pretty sweet.
One of my friends had a 2x8 speed bike with friction shifters. He rode with me just fine. Hard to beat that setup in terms of cost, compatibility and maintenance. I also think they look freaking hot on steel bikes.
Same here I wouldn’t dream of adjusting myself…look cool as f…k when all cables hidden in my opinion…not that looking cool should bother me as I’m 55 today 🤷♂️
Integrated systems aesthetically look good, no question, but a real challenge if you are travelling with a bike bag. From experience, any bike bag that does not require you to remove the bars, has the higher risk of being damaged in transit. I have tried various integrated bar/stem combo's and agree, its something very difficult to dial in and have limitations on mounting accessories outside of the out front mounts.
What bike bag did you end up with?
I fully agree with James comment about proper fitting on the bike gets you the best results and your're spending over $10,000 on bike for that reason. I went with a custom frame builder who got the fit dialed in for me better than any bike I have ever purchased from a shop. That bike cost me more than $11,000 and does not have hidden cables in the stem. I can use any stem and bar from any aftermarket brand and at some point in the future will probably need to change something because my body is getting old and changing. In the last 20 years I have lost almost an inch of my height. I get joint pains from arthritis which has put me in a more upright position. It's crazy to spend over $10K for a bike where the brand dictates how you are going to be positioned. Believe me you won't enjoy riding that bike very long, I know because I've had those bikes.
I added something like 100W to my sprint by fine tuning my stem length/height. No bar/stem/integration with give you that kind of boost.
you know it’s gonna be brutally good one from Cycling Tips when there’s The Angry Asian! 👍👍 your journalism is perfect.
One piece cockpits are a physiotherapist wet dream. As James said, how many people are riding these that just don't fit properly and it's costing them not only watts but physical issues both now and later on. I love the look of the integration but not at the cost of safety or dollars. I like that it's pushing the boundaries and at some point they'll get it right, just wish there was a governing body that could ensure more rigorous design and safety outcomes because rubbed brakes cables and sheered off steerer tubes should not be occurring for aesthetics. I'm happy with a few cables sticking out neatly, i.e. TCR if it means I can be safer bombing down my local hills at 80+ km/h and not worrying about a steerer failure and I can work on the bike myself. Having said that what Trek and Allied have done is spot on, somewhat integrated but easily maintainable.
Yeah, I like Treks under the bar system it is integrated but not at the same time. I think it would help for most people to get a proper bike fit too
Fit is everything. And for me, it can take a series of tweaks over weeks or months to get really dialled in. I couldn’t buy a one piece unless I could test it for weeks first. It’s a shame.
Integrated cockpits are a cancer…reviewers need to start calling this disease out. Thankyou CT and James in particular for your work here.
Preferred bike fit undergoes subtle changes over time,with training,varying conditions and injury to name a few.
Integration makes optimisation an expensive,time consuming irritation. All for the sake of “clean lines”.
The days of slapping on a cheap stem from Wiggle or CRC to finesse with position seem to be passing.
OF COURSE they are dumb!!! Just like integrated seat masts, they leave you with no options if you want to customize your fit, replace worn or damaged parts or buy/sell a used bike to someone with slightly different dimensions. Simpler setups are not only cheaper, they make fitting SO much quicker and easier!
I will not buy a bike with an integrated cockpit and hidden cables. I wouldn't even want one if it was given to me. I want something that fits my corpus and that I can easily work on. Give me a round tubed frame. If the cables and housing have to make a brief run through a tube or down tube, that's okay, but there will be no cables or hoses that turn internally through handlebars, stems, or headsets. Frankly, I'd be just as happy with external cables.
As an upgrade I'll take an externally routed one piece bar and stem all day everyday! When I last shopped for a frame if a frame came with an integrated bar/stem I'd always ask if it could be supplied without it as stock options never matched my requirement.
Maintenance. Compare the time it takes to clean and lube a headset between integrated and non-integrated cockpits.
Agree, I like the idea of hiding the cables under the stem and then go into the head set better then routing the cables inside the cockpit. The first at least makes swapping the cockpit easier. I have a Scott Gravel and the integrated cockpit is a PITA.
Couldn't agree more. I intentionally bought a lower spec bike just to get away from internal cable routing
If I want to see a clean cockpit I ride my track bike. Otherwise, out on the road with some cables showing here and there just reminds me that I "can" stop pedalling! ;-)
Totally agree . I own a BMC Roadmachine 01 from 2019 and easily swapped my handlebar after 500 km to one from ENVE.
How can we explain to the marketing people of the big bike manufactures the important difference between unique selling point (USP) and customer value?
Integrated cockpits look awesome.
If I can get width and length I want, I'm getting one on the next bike. I like how Ribble does it, offering you a choice when ordering the bike. Others will need to follow suit.
i'm looking for buy an endurance al to when they make the integrated HB avaible in that model. like the solution they have in the eletric version of the model
but Bro! I have to look COOL. Adjustability??? I have to look PRO BRO! Those cables hanging out making it easy to adjust and do maintence???? NO WAY
It's as if people are addicted to this look, especially new cyclists.
I agree with your summary on this topic and appreciate your honesty.
Too many channels today are obviously promtIng these handlebars since they are getting paid to by the manufacturers and not for their benefits or lack of to the average rider.
Bike fit trumps all in cycling not to mention some of the safety compromises made with these integrated designs. Some of these designs are just plain dangerous and if you are not mechanically inclined in order to keep an eye on these systems you can have a major failure occur . You can't get aerodynamic benefits if you happen to plant your face in the tarmac.
I like my round bars because accessories fit. I like normal stems because like 2 days ago I went to the bike shop and walked out with the stem I needed. Easy.
I always flip my stem up and sometimes change to a shorter stem and rotate bars up a little. And my Garmin mounts, light and GoPro mounts are all designed for round bars. These integrated stem/bars immediately rule those bikes out.
The cable entry ports at the front (like Trek / Cannondale) should be on every road bike IMO. That's more than neat / aero enough, and still allows whatever stem / bar you want or which fits you. But fully integrated ... nah. Not keen.
My crystal ball says the 'big thing' will be upgrading the lowly Adjustable Stem to a Popper stem, a trigger actuated instant upright riding position. No bike w/ a dropper post will be complete w/out one. If you label it 'Gravel Specific' you can double the markup. They will be great w/ Wireless breaking, plus what a boon to the Tort Lawers of the world.
Interesting analysis. One phrase that caught my ear was 'high-end bikes'. Knowing that many high-end bikes will be used for racing. My opinion is that the majority of the cycling public will not be dropping $5K+ on a high-end bike.
True. I know some dedicated cyclists that would love to buy a new bike but won't spend $3K. And from what I've seen these last 3 years it is probably a good guess that these companies lost that group for future sales. $5 to $6K for a bicycle is a lot of money to spend even for people with good incomes. Makes sense to finance a car but not good sense to finance a bicycle. Bicycles just don't hold any value once used.
I just baught a new frame from Bianchi - and that is one of two reasons why I did not buy the Oltre Pro or Oltre RC but the older Oltre XR4; need some time to find one as it is no longer produced, but happily found one and can now build the bike to my needs
People who loves integrated everything are usually triathletes who's biggest maintenance job is to unbolt a regular bottle cage to put an aero bottle cage on. Even if you ignore the ease of maintenance, not being able to customise the cockpit component without replacing the whole thing is costly and inconvenient.
Thanks CT for speaking the truth rather than pushing aero gains/savings bs when the vast majority of people don't need it.
I dare say, those who claim to love full internal routing, have never worked on a bike before.
It was when i heard the Canyon design guys saying on your nerd alert pod last year that they recommended that only Canyon mechanics work on the new cockpit that i realised that integrated cockpits were not the way to go for me. Hell, i dont even have (or want) internal cabling! :)
I'm very happy with my 2 piece integrated cockpit, but the internet keeps trying to tell me I'm wrong.
I think something to take into consideration is the wages. The shop I worked at paid me $13/hr and the head mechanic made $17. So the shop is only really eating ~$70 in labor to do these swaps if free and the shop gets a happy customer who just bought a 5 figure bike. I would normally do the bulk of the work and the head mechanic would consult as necessary on the high dollar builds.
I quit due to low wages but they still have people willing to work for that price.
I think if shops paid bike mechanics like other skilled mechanics things might be different.
come to portugal where a very well paid job is arround 7 to 11 euros per hour
@@bernardo9202 different wages, different cost of living, which part are you struggling with?
@@channul4887 none 😂😂😂, just living with a 700 euros bike dreaming with 10k one
I think I'd be a bit concerned with a guy making just $13 an hour working on my electronic/hydraulic bicycle. Back in my day we used to joke about having "grommets" at "$Minimum wage + all they could steal" working...but they didn't touch anything important until they were properly trained.
What are You guys talking about… Integrated cockpit means more trips to LBS. That means more money spent at LBS. At some point being at the LBS I will get the idea that my 6 month old bike is too old while looking at all the new shiny bikes and buy a new one. The economy grows, everybody gets paid, everybody wins! Only problem is that I spent too much money on an unnecessary stuff… 🤷🏻♂️
shh, you're exposing the secret
Lets see how that system works when the shops start telling customers you have to drop the bike off and leave it and it will be a couple of weeks before they can get to it. A lot of shops are already doing that here in Pa. That's why people are bringing their bikes to me for the tune up instead of taking it to a shop. I've worked on about three dozen bikes this year and they all told me the same story. Shops are full and also charging about $60 an hour for labor. I usually do the work for a bottle of wine and the cost of parts. It seems to me with disc brakes and the integrated cables the time involved to service a bike is going to go way up.
Broken window fallacy. Look it up.
Same way the motorcycle industry went, no backstreet repair shops anymore just shiny plate glass tiled floor showrooms with "No Entry" workshops like operating theatre's
@@404nobrakes maybe you should look up broken window theory yourself. It's not relevant to this topic anyway. And fallacy is a claim, not a truth. Because It had nothing to do with this subject your comment qualifies as true UA-cam 'tardness.
You are 100% right about integrated cables... BUT there is a ton of other things that make little sense for most riders- "aero" frames (no frame makes a real world aero difference), carbon wheels (unless you are a pro carbon wheels are unnecessary) Electronic shifting (mechanical groups are so good there was no need for electronic).
Hopefully, Standlebars will go the way of the press fit BB's.
Standard drop bars, stems, and non-integrated wires are cheaper to buy, offer more flexible options, easy to service and repair, and most of all, they work just fine. If it ain't broke........
It's important to know your bike fit measurements, ideally by a professional, and compare those numbers to whatever bike you purchase next. Stack, reach, seat post setback, and cockpit measurements are critical. What you will find is simply most "off the shelf" complete bikes don't fit most people. I understand most people don't wanna build a custom bike, but the argument can be made especially when desiring an integrated cockpit.
Many of these integrated cockpits are very aero riding position which means extremely bent forward and horridly uncomfortable! I could not possibly imagine riding just about any high performance road bike any further than the end of my street without getting back pain and numb hands which is what happened with my Warbird until I changed the setup. I was this close to doing a flat bar conversion or just selling it until I opted for an angled stem with wider, more flared bar for a more upright and comfortable riding position.
That’s why I still go “Giant” 👌🏼 no internal bla bla bla
Won’t lie, love the look of hidden cables. But I do all my own maintenance and don’t want the headaches
For most bikes these days all we really need is some kind of quick connect/disconnect for brake lines… not sure if it’s possible or not but would sure make things a lot easier.
As long as there is no compromise in fit the advantage of an integrated bar and stem, in addition to the improved aesthetics of the bike (not to be downplayed), is a few less parts to clean and maintain as well as a better cable path (if the bars are designed well). I just recycled my 2011 Madone 9-series after 60,000 miles and, with a professional fit (the cost of which was included in the price of the bike, as it should be), and I never once adjusted the bars/stem. However, I cannot tell you how many times I cleaned the little bolt-heads and seams, etc. at the bar/stem transition. I would gladly swap for an integrated if it improved aesthetics/maintenance while not sacrificing fit. Keep in mind that there are a lot of road cyclists out there that are not professionals but do ride 5,000-7,000+ miles a year. It's a serious hobby/sport and someone who spends this much time on the bike should have the best equipment.
Buying a bike with an integrated cokpits has been a nightmare since I can't make minor adjustments to fit me. The practical must prevail over the aesthetic. I will never repeat this mistake.
Imo buying a pre disc road bike from 2010 to 2019 is a good idea. Lighter, cheaper, easier to work on. Bikes are just too damn expensive nowadays.
i bought a Cervelo Soloist S1 frame for $300 and absolutely love it. It was their first super aero bike, it's aluminium, has a threaded BB, I just added bits and bobs from the internet (ebay) and stuff on sale. I reckon the whole thing cost under a $1000 and thats with 3T carbon bars (ebay), an awesome Look AStem (ebay), 105 drivetrain ($200 used off ebay), plus Shimano rs81 C35 wheels (bought separately off ebay $150 each, both were new but the rear came without a spindle which I bought afterwards). It not only looks the part, thanks in part to the former owner who looked after the frame but it is as you mention light yet strong and extremely fast and easy to maintain.
If you get it get the Cervelo S2 it'll make an awesome bike, the frame hasn't dated at all in my opinion. I'm already on the look out for one !!
it looks good! that makes all the sense
ABSOLUTELY . . . integrated cockpits in my view, LOOK a HELL of a lot better than the generic 4 bolt thingys which ARE practical for their quick change versatility but look SO damn awkward aesthetically. THE best way to go about buying your CORRECT integrated cockpit is to ride your stock configuration and make changes in stem length to IT until you feel totally comfortable AFTER SEVERAL RIDES and THEN buy the integrated that you like as long, obviously, as it comes in the exact size you need. The Black Inc Integrated for example has 19 (!) choices of width/stem sizes and looks really nice IMHO. The Vision Tech looks very high "aviation tech" too . . .
Integrated cockpits / proprietary components are some of the dumbest products out on the market as of right now.
Sure it may look “nice” and keep cables “tidy” however no average rider needs that. It’s just another marketing scheme to steal your money on shit you don’t need. Not to mention the fact that once something does go wrong you’re not able to replace easily at times due to lack of immediate availability or cost.
Stick to the classic good ‘ol stems, bars, seatpost, etc.
Also, people seem to forget that set up and installation is not as easy as it seems and also not as easy as “set it and forget it”
The Cockpits are just the tip of the problem. I hate to mention Rim/Disc brake, but give us the choice. I do not need carbon wheels,(alloy/Rim brake) is what works best for where and how I ride. I do not race, or a Pro, (average speed 15mph). I would rather be comfortable than Aero.
Crazy, Fully integrated has its place when you are racing or on a TT bike where every second counts, but to the average cyclist it is more of a hassle to deal with and stem and handlebar are limited. I prefer fully external cabling all the way.
Just bought a Specialized Aethos, for many reasons, but the non-integrated cockpit was what tipped the scales in it's favor
Yep, yep, yep. I can disagree with that. Good choice. - Dave
Standle bars all day! Love the aesthetic. I know that sounds shallow.
What a 💰 grab they are. Wait 5 years and you crash and you can't get a replacement. Good on you guys for calling out what garbage integrated cockpits are
I work at a bike shop. We sell a couple of integrated cockpits (Scott Foil). We definitely do not have any ability to switch cockpits for you. We are a Scott dealer but not a Scott owned shop. If they wanted a different cockpit they would have to buy it themselves at their cost and then we could install it for them but now they'd have an extra cockpit.
That's what I heard about Scott. You basically either fit what they give you, or you buy it as a status symbol.
I'm pretty sure when you buy Canyon that happens too. I bought from them but it was 4 years ago. But I wasn't able to choose my stem length. They said I would have to send the one it came with back to them and then they'd send me a longer one. So I've heard conflicting views about how amenable Canyon is to fit changes. Maybe it has changed since.
I thought the Foil can't run any other cockpit other than two of Synchros' options (or is it just one?)?
@@yonglingng5640 I have no clue. Never tried to switch it out
@@alantaylorfarnes Because I remember the Foil doesn't have a different headset dust cover to allow the use of other stems. For the Addict RC, I'm very sure it doesn't.
It seems that the bike manufacturers have a "want their cake and eat it" attitude, they want everything to be in-house produced and any change to touch point components is not an easy change, and of course certainly it will only be a change with their own components. I do feel like all of this integration is quite pointless other than making the bikes look exceptionally slick. Speaking from a mechanics perspective also, when the first Venge Vias was released I remembered thinking "what an absolutely ridiculous idea' to have everything integrated, and lets face it, the integration was terrible in operation. I can also guarantee that any customer that bought one of those bikes or subsequent bikes was not informed that you would have to dismantle all of the front end just to change the headset bearings, and that it may also require new hoses/cables and several hours of labour all at a higher cost to the customer. I'm all for progress in bikes and the technology that goes into them but we do get lots of decisions pushed onto us from component and bike manufacturers.
I always thought one piece cockpit was a bad idea but I got sucked in by the Roval Alpinist for my Aethos. At least the Aethos is easy to work on and I’ve got to admit the cockpit feels sweet. I did have to size up the bar from 40 to 42 to get the stem length I wanted so not perfect.
The Bontrager Aeolus RSL is another one-piece cockpit I don't hate. It's got a gutter for the shift and brake lines to blend into.
The only con? That 100 mm handlebar reach, way too long for me (70 - 80 mm is OK for me).
@@yonglingng5640 agreed, the reach was a turn-off for me too.
I think all these bike manufacturers are trying too hard to make something that is already good, better. But is it really? They want change and not the same design year after year. Stick with the traditional stem and handlebar. You can have it any shape or size, heavy or lightweight, flashy or straight black. Plus, its way more home mechanic friendly. Cyclists who grew up decades ago will understand this. And finally, disc brakes on a road bike??.......nope.
Remember. Ridning your bike at peak fitness demands a longer/lower Bikefit. Moving into winter the intensity and form drops and the needs of the rider changes. Integrated cockpits makes that transition very difficult.
Well, just buy a second bike, what's the problem? You know they want you to.
@@channul4887 I see a marketing opportunity! A bike for each season!!
100% feel same. I get that maintaining 50 SKU's is a nightmare, but the problems caused by integrated bars still stands. Moreover, not all bike brands today will swap an appropriately sized 1-piece bar to you for free even if they make the right size. The biggest irony still, is that people who run long & narrow don't have a choice in the first place because the longest 38cm bar offered is a 90mm reach. Good luck controlling those deep section wheels, which, unironically, come standard off the rack.
Not only do integrated cockpits make no sense for most people, neither does internal cable routing. Both have no value for 99% of riders whatsoever outside of appearance... and in exchange, you wreck serviceability. Form should follow function... if they don't, you're doing life itself wrong. We already understand this when it comes to frame geometry... why not everything else?
Blah, blah, blah aero benefits -- hogwash. If you're competing in the pro peloton, yeah, every fraction of a percent of advantage counts... and you constitute 0.008% of the bicycle market, and you aren't even really choosing your bike.
Protecting cables from the elements; a friggin' bolt-on shroud that attaches to the frame can do that, and it's been done before. The Giant Roam series used to do that up until 2021. It's a hybrid meant for a larger slice of the market than most bikes, but that's exactly what makes it a good design decision.
Both of these things are just monetizing image, and that makes them nothing more than a scam for anyone within 4 standard deviations of the mean.
Couldn’t agree more - poor engineering (SL 7), lack of fit options and makes maintenance a nightmare for what benefit. I would buy a Giant - there is a reason they haven’t done this.
Best bike in the world? The one that fits.
Integrated cockpits provide marked improvements in pilot/ aircraft interface. Ergonomically placing the avionics, flight controls, heads up display, etc, allows the pilot to safely and more efficiently make timely decisions with better situational awareness and information feedback.
There was, once upon a time, an issue with brake levers being aero, i.e., housing under the tape... Where people brought up 'my hands could slip off the hoods easier if there's no housing there'..... And we know how common aero brake levers are now... I would agree, it appears that setting up the cockpit with 'everything' being hidden, it's more of a pain in the ass, but it's more than likely here to stay.... Unless you're a retro guy, and run brake levers that aren't aero, and downtube shift levers (which is what MY Merckx MX-Leader has).... It's a matter of taste.
My bike have it and I didnt have any issue un the last 8 months. I know my position in the bike and I dont have plan to change the brake lines, to be honest it's not a problem at all for me
Well they do make the bike look gorgeous to a degree that I want to use it more..
Just as with running shoes that I tend to want to use more if they look great, so it takes less energy for me to start which means that I can put more energy into the run and get better training session.
I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't think the no housing look is better. Give me tastefully routed shift and brake housing.
I love the integrated system and my Tarmac SL7 looks neat! I will not return to my old setup (dangling cables) No problem so far with my setup (integrated). Integration is the future!
Making the handlebar/stem more aero is important when your downtube is 5 inches (12.5 cm) wide. I'm speaking to you Trek with down tube on the Domane so wide they can place a barn door.
Yeah I’ll keep my 2021 TCR and get some Axs stuff if I want less cables hanging out front.
The look of these cockpits is super clean. If you run a sram wireless setup its not that big of a deal because you just have to deal with the hoses. If I had mechanical cables I would not have chosen a bike with internal routing. It would be too much of a pain to change cables.
for me having a bit of ocd, i love not having cables showing, but can agree, the two piece integrated handlebar is the best way to go
Can't prove you wrong on that one. If you are lucky and a standlebar exists that matches your current bar/stem set up, then definitely get one, because they do look good!
Probably quite a few pros who hate this design but they are told (and paid) to ride them and they just do
Next bike industry trend - integrated seat post and saddle
Where, on the bike or at your back?
its all about the hidden cables, people have been conditioned to think being wireless is the best option
Especially those who take up the sport in the 2020s.
It's not like you have to buy a bike with integrated anything, you can always choose not to buy any of it.
Made me feel good when James noted a stem swap could be a 5 hour project...for a pro wrench. I spent an entire day swapping a bar/stem with this internal crap on my own bike and figured if (gawd forbid) I had to do it again it would be a 1/2 day task. WTF they can't come up with a way to get the hoses/cables/wires up outta the head tube so they could then be routed under the stem (perhaps under a cap like the FSA thing my bike came with?) and then either inside a channel molded into the carbon handlebar (or just under the tape like I did with an aluminum bar) escapes me. Everyone could have their clean "aero" hidden cable/hose/wire look without hours of work just to swap a bar or stem!!! Who thinks this s__t up? I feel sorry for those who have to work on this crap for a living!!!
Someone needs to invent a brake hose fittings for bikes like the push in shark bite used in plumbing world. These could be installed at the stem and make disconnecting and shortening easy. Combined with wireless shifting group sets, bleeding brakes would be the worst of the process.
Day late and a dollar or few shorter at the time of watching, but like this review! Good aspects on both sides of the debate and as a competitive local racer. Agree to point if you're going to go with the integrated cockpit, you should have a detailed fit, which won't be included in price point. Your recreational competitive rider would definitely be better off with standard set up for adjustability. Bottom line if your going to the top end bike with an integrated cockpit, drop $400-$500 on a fit that makes sure your not going to have to spend more down the road changing components.
I had a customer who's buying a new bike asking if I can switch its cockpit to a one-piece unit right from the get-go, to which I told him to get a professional bike fit first because this bike is completely new to him and he has no idea what cockpit dimensions fit him yet.
I'm reluctant to sell one-piece cockpits unless it's been proven the customer has already got the fit dialed in.
I predict it's a fad for super high end bikes which are purchased by older riders with lots of money and who probably don't ride all that much. Anyone who rides a lot and does their maintenance and small tweaks to handlebars and stem will steer clear IMO. Sure, it does look cool.
Easy, and warranted, to hate on Spesh- especially w the SL7 compression ring:fork disaster -but the way that they’ve done a 2-piece integrated stem with bar, and ability to swap and mix and match without re-running the cables, as they’ve done on the Tarmac and Venge, is a great way to get the aesthetics of a 1-piece; aero benefit of full integration; and not lose the 2-piece ease of use & customization of position.
And you didn't even touch on the topic of hugely increased headset bearing service and replacement costs which for hydraulic brake bikes also means recutting the hoses to fit a new barb and olive and so after a couple of changes of bearing new hoses will be needed also.. Look good yes, more expensive to live with? hell yes
As far as I know most bicycles with integrated cockpits still have a port for outside routing. I like the option. Also, if you can‘t build your own bike you should probably leave the brake hoses to the professional.
They look good... But I'm putting 120 stems on my road bike. It's the only way for me to get the increase of power and core engagement I need.
Most people don't know that they need an increased stem length to maximize their ride.
Great clip. Thx
just a huge PITA imho
Product will evolve to be modular back to what we have now but hide cables
I agree. They make little sense to the average rider. But for a different reason. A lot of integrated cockpits have steering limiters. And novice to avid riders crash more than pros. A seemingly gentle spill can deem a head tube unsafe and be very expensive.
I fucking hate internal cabling.
Seems there are no integrated bars with a classic bend, all ergo bend?
Don't think so.
If you buy a Ferrari you can expect the service and parts to be just as pricey. This is why most people can not afford a Ferrari, they buy a Honda Accord. JMO.
As somebody who's built his 4 last bikes, cables hidden in the frame is neat, but at the cockpit? No thanks, the supposed loss in watt does not matter to me.
Love my slammed integrated cockpit on my Factor Ostro it’s just sexy🥰
What the guy on the right said. This is so led by marketing and aesthetics. An engineer at a desk that gets given a brief by marketing with mechanics put second (no after thought). I've got my first fully integrated road bike and I got the well experience LBS to build. They spent all day on it as it was a pain in the arse. Lesson from this vid' is get a fit first, even before buying if you can. They'll advise on type of bike and geometry while having you on a jig. I see so many cases of expensive bikes and saddles either too low or high or overstretched riders. You've spent $1000's spent a couple of hundred on a "qualified" bike fitter not just a shop say so and enjoy you'll ride more.
Spot on.
Proper fit is key. Know your fit either from sufficient experience or from a professional (qualified) fitter.
I would never buy a bike that doesn’t fit … whether a $5k bike or a $15k bike.
Fit includes proper handlebar rise, reach, width and drop. So it’s gotta fit riding on 3 points of the bar … 1) the top bar, 2) the hoods and 3) the drops. I believe many neglect the proper drop so they can never comfortably and properly ride in the drops.
Durianrider was right.
I don’t hate them, they make sense with electronic shifting and are more aero. But how many of us have a personalized $10,000 road bike? So I stick with easy repairs and installation parts that fit my wallet.
I like internal cable routing but only the ones where the cables enter the frame from the downtube as this makes swapping the front end easier and servicing it. I won't buy a fully integrated bike as this reduces my options and makes life harder for me.