Prince Imrahil: Legends of Middle Earth
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2023
- In Deep Geek - Insight and intelligent discussion on Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, The Witcher and more.
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There are a few characters who I understand PJ leaving out of the movies even though their absence is still sad, Tom Bombadil and Glorfindel for example. And then there are characters who would have REALLY benefited the movie by staying in, like Imrahil the kinda-elven Numenorean with some of the finest cavalry in Middle-earth and the ability to actually stand up to Denethor.
I would have loved to see him, but I think general audiences would not have understood how a prince isn't in line for the throne
If there are more characters in Minas Tirith on Faramir's side like Beregond and Imrahil then he's less inclined to be so desperate to please Denethor. At least that's the attitude I think PJ had on the subject.
@@alphasierrazuluI think most people who loved the books before the movies tend to forget that PJ ultimately has to make a commercially successful movie. Which means giving us the reader's digest version of the books. This isn't bad, as it gives people an opening to experience Tolkien who might otherwise never had picked up the books.
I think the reason PJ left out Imrahil was because that would make YET ANOTHER hero, and take away from the ones he had already established in the first two movies. Moviegoers who had not read the books would have been confused by just too many heroes, too many players, too many people to keep track of. That's the limitation of adaptation -- you can't really tell the story the way it's written, because books are a whole different animal from movies in the way they connect with the reader/viewer. It IS sad that they left Imrahil out, for sure, but it's understandable why they had to do it.
Indeed, while I love Jackson movies I have always hated 2 changes, both in Return of the King. The absence of Imrahil and having the army of the dead be the force that wins the at the Pelennor, having Aragorn leading the southern armies of Gondor and having Imrahil lead the charge out of Minas Tirith’s gate was important in showing the free peoples could still win battles and that there was still strength in the world of men. Jackson’s films omit 2/3rds of the forces that won the day at the Pelennor and it always makes me sad.
Fun fact: According to Tolkien in the book "The Nature Of Middle Earth" High Men of the Dunedain with Elvish blood had no facial hair. (Aragorn, Denethor, Boromir, Faramir and Prince Imrahil.)
It reminds me of the clean shaven Romans.
"...and few indeed had dared to abide them or look on their faces in the hour of their wrath."
The absolute weight of this quote is immense. Imagine yourself a soldier who survived that battle, and you see the 3 of the riding into the city. You'd know, despite the victory, not to intrude upon them in that hour.
I lament the omission of the the supporting Gondorian characters from the book. Not just Prince Imrahil and the epic Swan Knights of Dol Amroth, but Beregond of the Citadel Guard and Ioreth of the Houses of Healing.
Same
And Bergil. The calm before the storm.
I guess it was pacing
And they wanted to make the movies Frodo centric.
@@Tawadeb Overall, I would say you're right. That was probably the correct choice from a cinematic perspective, but it did hinder the complexity of Gondor as a civilization in the story.
@@oscarstainton Yes i agree. I was heartbroken at what they left out
It would need a good tv series
Not RoP
Great video. Whenever I read the book I'm always surprised by how this guy that we haven't heard a word about before comes in basically like a second Aragorn, saving people, being wise, and not personally glamourous (although he's openly a ruling prince). He's just, and good, and awesome.
What I love about Imrahil is that he somewhat grounds the deeds done by the main characters of the book. In real life you often have people behind the scenes that do so much for their cause, and yet aren’t as lauded. Agrippa for Augustus, Narses or perhaps Belisarius for Justinian, Subutai for Genghis Khan, John Kourkouas for Romanos Lekepanos, and so many others. Often unsung heroes driving forward for a larger cause.
Yes. I remember reading about Subutai in a history book years after LotR, and thinking, "This was a real-life Imrahil for his Khan."
Admiral Spruance in WW2. He was never in the headlines (an intentional decision on his part), but I think he was more instrumental to the Pacific naval victory than anyone else.
Some epic Roman references I love it.
Imrahil and Glorfindel were always 2 of my favorites in the books. Great video as always.
🌝
I didn't know how much I needed this video. Prince Imrahil and Dol Amroth has always fascinated me.
I love the part where you read that Imrahil and Gandalf almost double-handedly are what kept the defense strong during the battle until the Riders from Rohan arrive to relieve the seige.
Noted 😔😔
I always interpreted Imrahil saying “your son returns after great deeds” more as him sarcastically calling Denethor a dickhead for sending his son on a suicide mission than sticking up for Faramir (I suppose both could be equally true)
Now im really looking forward to the chapters where I can learn more about Imrahil! Going to read the Hobbit and the trilogy in 2024
In the commentary for The Return Of the King, Peter Jackson jokes that he should have gotten Arnold Schwarzenegger to wear a suit of armor and a wig and play Prince Imrahil.
Yes! All hail the Silver Swan of Dol-Amroth
Nice one Robert. Reading LOTR as a kid, Imrahil was my favorite character in the whole series. He just has an aura of greatness and strength that radiates in the book.
And you've gotta be somebody badass to not only get through the entire battle of the Pellenor Fields without a scratch (one of three, the other two were Aragorn and Eomer), you have Legolas, son of Thranduill bowing to you as if you were a high Elf Lord!
One of my favorite side characters.
I understand why he was left out of the movies, but this was always one of the characters I was most intrigued about from the book. As a youth I remember feeling somewhat bewildered at this prince suddenly appeared and began to perform amazing feats worthy of Aragorn. I've developed a slightly better understanding of how he fits into the tapestry of Tolkein's world now, but thank you for filling in more of the blanks for me.
I love these Middle Earth deep cuts - quality content, as always! :D
Along with Glorfindel, Imrahil is one of the two characters who I most wish appeared in the movies. If by some miracle someone were to make a TV version of LOTR worthy of the name then they could finally receive the recognition they deserve.
Thank you! One note: I think it is clear that Elendil was no ancestor of Imrahil; otherwise, they *would* have been part of the Royal Family, and taken over the throne once it was clear Earnur was dead.
Great video. What a shame that so many Tolkien fans who get their knowledge mainly from the movies will never know what an awesome, humble badass Prince Imrahil was.
I was only 15 when the final movie came out so I'd only read the books once and didn't know as well...but keeping Imrahil out of the last movie was a real shame. Tolkien wrote an amazing character that was so capable and good that audiences probably would have chalked it up to a movie creation.
Love that Prince.
On a sidenote: Nice to see a video seemingly without AI-generated art, Not knocking it completley but this was a rest for the eye.
@@0753m It´s creeping in everywhere, so hard to mention any specific video or creator.
Always wanted to hear more about Imrahil from all the Tolkien channels I watch. Love!
Another great video. This is why I have only watched the movies once, but have read the books about 20 times. Tolkien never wrote a character that did not have a purpose in moving the story forward or connecting the characters together or the greater history. Love your videos.
I've probably watched the movies at least 40 times haha. I love the books much more though. Especially the audible version by Andy serkis. Give them a quarterly listen.
@@michaels7325 Yes, film and prose are two different artistic mediums, and can't be compared. That's like comparing a painting of Swan Lake, a song from the ballet, and a dance from it, and complaining about one because it doesn't have the same impact or qualities of the others.
Me the same... and I still read them from time to time, even if there is barely a single line that still hides any mistery for me.
It's been a while since my yearly re-read but I don't recall Imrahil being described as having a beard.
I would've cast Liam Neeson as Prince Imrahil in a similar vein to his roles from Kingdom of Heaven and The Phantom Menace as Boromir's and Faramir's cool uncle.
He would have had the gravitas for role, for sure.
Liam Neeson would've been perfect!!
Hi, great video!
Just one question:
Are you sure the one from the movie you show is Imrahil?
I always assumed him to be Beregond? (As he has the armor of the citadel's guard and does not bear the white swan of Dol Amroth?)
Wow, just wow. I never knew what a boss Imrahil was
After the final credits on our mega extended version two day trilogy watch. We figured 70 hours, yep 70 would be right to include everything. Think about it, Crickhollow, Old Forest, there's 30 minutes. Scouring?, easy 45.
Robert, thank you for this excellent video. Imrahil has always been one of my favorite characters. An argument can be made, I think, that he might be the “noblest” character in the LOTR.
Well done.
This cheered me up thanks
So basically, Imrahil more or less *carried* the Battle of Pellenor Fields?
Honestly Imrahil carried Gondor from the moment Denethor lost his will to fight.
I found myself smiling through most of this.
Very good.
All power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The story of the ring and those who opposed it, it was the meek, or those unfettered by vain glory, who destroyed its power in the end. However many times I re-read the tales Tolkien weaves it’s the thread of those whose power lies in belying their greatness to serve the greater good that rings true. As much in that fantastic realm as it is in this world.
Loved the video. Imrahil was one of my favorites.
Denethor's self-destructive overuse of his palentir is Tokien warning youths against the dangers of using too much TikTok.
Tolkien hated allegories so I think you should stop right now
Imrahil was the hero I made in Battle for Middle-Earth II. It was surprising he wasn't already in the game so I had to rectify that.
I appreciate the inclusion of so many images from the Lord of the Rings Online, a great game.
As always wonderful insight Rob!
Loved this piece especially! Thanks for all that you do and the way that you do it!
What a great episode; cheers Robert!! 🙏
One of my favorite charecters, thanks so much for this video
Thank you for this video.
Well done!
Thank you.
Having seen the movies first, Prince Imrahil was a great surprise to me personally. It seemed like he sprung up out of nowhere to be the leader Denethor should have been, but his title as "prince" confused me quite a bit, considering Gondor had no king at the time. The way Tolkien described Gondor's forces as having "captains" instead of generals or peerage was quite confusing as well, for surely there must have been more leaders than just the few names we get in the books. Armies are huge things, after all.
Wonderful, thank you for diving into this mighty character. I have never understood why Jackson left Imrahil and Glorfindel out of the movies. Two of the greatest characters in Middle Earth slighted was a huge disappointment.
How come his ancestor’s union with an elf isn’t really talked about with the 3 unions of elves and men? It would’ve produced a line of half elves that was not from the royal line.
Perhaps unlike the 3 unions, Imrahil’s ancestor married some more “common” wood elf from Mirkwood
@@JonkuzonMithrellas was from Lothlórien, not from Mirkwood (or Greenwood the Great as it was known before Sauron the Necromancer set himself up nearby), although she was from the same race of Silvan elves as inhabited Mirkwood. (They were Nandor elves, Telerin who began to journey to Aman but then turned back.) She was not royal, but was a handmaiden to the lady whom King Amroth of Lothlórien wished to wed.
I had this exact thought the other day. I wonder if 1) the theory of the elven ancestor was forced into the union is true or 2) JRR forgot to retcon that fact.
@@jaeluxeGiven the mess that was Tolkien's work-in-progress continuity, I'm guessing he forgot, lol
I think it would help out a lot if you added name titles to all of the images of the characters. At least when you first show any given image of a character.
3:10 That's the exact picture I used for my avatar
I didn't realize Imrahil was even in the movie. I'd forgotten all about him.
Imrahil and Beregond are the real mvp's of lotr.
Have you done a video on the Black Breath? I’d like to hear more about it
The Púkel-men were a sorely missed character from the story line.
Imrahil is one of my favorite characters. I usually tried to include him when I played the old ME ccg. It was another disappointment when I saw Jackson cut him out of the story.
Love that guy!!
Aaaw yisss one of my favorite minor characters in the books
Ever since I first read ‚The Return‘ of the King a few years before the Peter Jackson trilogy, Imrahil and Faramir together with the more flawed Boromir became my favourite (human) characters from the Third Age
Is the gondorian Captain suppose to represent Imrahill? I always figured he was Beregond, or maby a combination of the two.
It's interesting how much today's news broadcasts align with Denethor's Palantir.
A shame Imrahil wasn't in the movies the way he should have been. What a total Chad!
Interesting that Tolkien did not have Legolas mention anything Elvish about Boromir. Perhaps just an oversight or perhaps Boromir's Elvish ancestry was too deeply subsumed in his case.
Imrahil saved some asses in the books!
@In Deep Geek a wonderful video for the Legends Playlist and another one to read up more on, for me 😊
On a complete side note and in jest, would you agree that some of your Imrahil photos make him look like Luke Shaw with long hair?? 😂😂 Uncanny resemblance😅
That was a non-canon character from the films named Irolas, a Gondorian officer, played by Ian Hughes.
He was also pound for pound the best non wizard in middle earth: the wizards TCG
LOTR Video idea if you’ve not done it already: what would happen if Durin’s bane got the ring?
Would love to hear your take.
My favourite character in lotr
I love hearing about anything Tolkien wrote and published himself. As good as Christopher Tolkiens Writing is, he didn't understand his farther as much as he thought, either that or he just didn't agree with him.
I believe you have a point. In "Children of Hurin" he misses such a crucial fact: ""And the Stone of the Hapless was not defiled by Morgoth nor ever conquered by Sauron, and it stood there still, a memorial of grief untold, clean and bright in the rain." - It was all Tolkien to look at little pieces, like some ancient name of a remote village, some forgotten stone and to extract great stories, legends, truths from them. It's repeating theme - as the place where nazgul fell were dark and grass never grown on them, and many other - that if you look carefully around you will find evidence of great love and great dids.
And this is why Imrahil got cut for thr movie, as even though I've listened too the origional audio book muktiple times, and just got fone with andy Serkis' audible coveres last month, when reading the thumbnail I was thinking .. "who?"
And it wasnt till went into nore drtails it started to ring a bell. But eveb then not his name, just his actions.
Its thw same reason bombadil got cut. Yes inportant to the story, but not important to a much shorter movie!
Same with glorfindel, yeah he got done dirty, he did so many inportsnt tasks, but he didn't neeeeed to be in a film shrunken version.
And the movie still brought so many more people into Tolkien's world. It was a good thing.
That would actually be a good topic for a video. Covering andys recent version. It was so good!
I totally forgot i was listening to 1 man sometimes his voicer were so good.
And maybe you could find out why beragond was a Scouse!?
Imrahil fan here
3:24 is Irolas.
What’s the ‘black breath’? You mentioned it a couple times and it’s the first time I’ve come across this term
It's a sort of magic poison associated with Nazgul weapons.
The breath of the Nazgûl was actually poisonous.
Basically the presence of a Nazgul. I think merry fainted in bree because of it.
It's sickness of the soul after staying too long in shadow of Nazgul. Nazguls were all about fear, so they poisoned the souls of everyone around, however it wasn't physical poison.
6:45 that was imrahil? The guy who looked like he was 30 seconds from an emotional breakdown?
I do believe the video is mistaken on that account. Blondie was Irolas of the City Guard.
@@ColFantastic9 I don’t know, because when I looked up imrahil, that’s what shows up
I read that Peter Jackson would’ve included him if he could’ve got Arnold Schwarzenegger to play him.
Did he say Gannondorf?????!
I D G !!!!!
3:54 OMG UA-cam is like the palantiri - for bad and good.
To be fair to Denethor, he was under the sway of Sauron via the palantir. Who knows how Imrahil would have acted had he access to the seeing stone.
And from Tolkien’s POV as author, Imrahil is kind of the clean-up hitter. He needs someone to do all this stuff.
It’s smart to make secondary/tertiary characters intriguing, not one-dimensional: when was Wormtongue a good counsellor? How does Radagast commune with birds? Treebeard’s longing for the entwives. In my view they’re all more interesting than Boromir, who’s name tells us all. Jackson does a better job adding nuance to his character than Tolkein.
Denethor was the original doomscroller.
Should have been in the film and the mustering of Gondor at minas tirith.
It's been a while since I last read LotR, but now that you put it like this, Imrahil is pretty overpowered.
"Gandalf was in charge..."
At what point an Istar breaches his "contract" with the Valar? I thought they would give advice, yes. But in charge of...?
I think they could be in charge: just they had to rule by persuasion, not by displaying raw Majar power.
Also, I always imagined that the Gandalf's mission entrusted by Valar ended with his death after fighting Balrog; as Gandalf the White he acts on behalf Eru, what gives him a bit more liberties - for example he could use his power to subdue Wormtongue during his visit in Edoras.
I have always admired the character Imrahil and thought it a shame he was not included in the movies. However I always pictured him as somewhat darker skinned though no evidence to support this.
In Lord of the Rings Online, Lothiriel was betrothed to Boromir. Some good ol cousin lovin.
The “Im-ster” was a BMF!
So there were other Half-Elves! I thought Humans and Elves had only united twice - leading to doom each time.
Twice? There were 3 well known unions of Men and Elves, Beren and Lúthien, Tuor and Elwing, and Aragorn and Arwen plus the lesser-known union of Mithrellas and Imrazôr that were Imrahil's ancestors.
Just a comment- it was Tuor and Idril. Elwing was Dior's daughter who married Earendil, Tuor and Idril's son.
@@pmcswain358 Woops; don't know what I was thinking typing "Elwing" there. Thanks!
I find it strange that Imrahil didn't have an extended life as Aragorn did, given his heritage.
Imrahil was one of my favourite characters from the book. I can understand why he is cut from the films but It is still a little disappointing.
I completely forgot about him, to be honest.
I don’t know why the usage of the citadel Guard Irolas (an original character for the movies) was used as a photo to represent Imrahil so often in the video, but that isn’t him. He literally isn’t in the movies.
That picture cannot be Imrahil. Imrahil's elven blood makes him unable to grow a beard.
Hes one of the guards of the citadel
When gondor called its 'banners' each should have sent every able man... leaving behind only old disabled retainers and very young paiges to hold the walls of their strongholds.. anything else is a total abandonment of their oaths.... swift would be the revenge for such cowardice..
One of the reasons I have always said the Lord of The Rings should have been a TV show rather than a cinematic film was the removal of integral characters due to time constraints. Jackson's butchering of the story proves me correct. We need someone like J. Michael Straczynski to helm a TV series. That man would do the novels justice.
Two remarkable facts that get overlooked:
1. That Elves and Humans can interbreed at all; and
2. That anyone found Denethor attractive enough to marry him.
No one should ever see him eat. 😅. Movie reference not book.
I don't like the Peter Jackson films because of all the characters he either ignores or misrepresents.
It's highly simplified because compared to the books the movies are very very short. Plus it has to appeal to audience who don't understand middle earth as too much info will kill the movie
But I get what you mean.
@@shouhanyun8203 It was claimed to be a labour of love rather than a pandering to popularity. Changing the nature of characters (e.g. Faramir, Elrond, and Aragorn) did not shorten the film, also their character could come across without a deep knowledge of middle earth.
Books to movies do not translate as well as you would like, same with video game to movie adaptations. If you don't make changes, you end up with a shitty movie. Period.
@@EQOAnostalgia Or you can make changes and still end up with the same result (that’s my opinion anyway)