#81 - Let's Talk About A.I. ft Adrian Baxter , Dayal Patterson and C.S.R. ( SCHAMMASCH )
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- Опубліковано 12 бер 2024
- Iblis Manifestations Presents:
"Let's Talk About A.I."
This podcast episode features a deep dive into the topic of Artificial Intelligence and its impact on art, music and underground/alternative culture.
This four-way discussion takes place between the following individuals:
Adrian Baxter - Designer and illustrator
Dayal Patterson - Author and publisher at Cult Never Dies
C.S.R - Guitarist and vocalist of Schammasch and founder of the art project Eye of SAROS
Shayan - Frontman of Trivax and host of the Iblis Manifestations podcast
If you enjoy the episode, please share it around, subscribe to Iblis Manifestations and let us know your thoughts in the comments below!
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"Eloah Burns Out" by TRIVAX: linktr.ee/trivax
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TRIAL BY FIRE (Hire me as a coach): linktr.ee/trialbyfire.fit
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Support our guests:
SCHAMMASCH: linktr.ee/schammasch
EYE OF SAROS: www.csaros.com/
ADRIAN BAXTER: adrianbaxterillustration.bigc...
CULT NEVER DIES: www.cultneverdies.com/
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Iblis Manifestations: linktr.ee/iblismanifestations...
Instagram: @iblismanifestations
Personal Instagram: @thatmetalcoach
TRIVAX: trivax.bandcamp.com
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If you like podcasts, you can check out my fellow Horsemen of the Podcasting Apocalypse:
Into the Necrosphere: linktr.ee/intothenecrosphere
Necromaniacs: necromaniacs.podbean.com/
Sol Nox: www.solnoxpodcast.podbean.com
Horrorwolf666: thehorrorwolf666podcast.buzzs...
Everything Went Black: everythingwentblackmedia.com/
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#ArtificialIntellingence #AI #MidJourney #ChatGPT #Plagarism #Art #ArtisWork #KerryKing #Pestillence #Design #Cover #Schammasch #TRIVAX #CultNeverDies #AdrianBaxter
Listening to it again now I'm gonna mention that I've misunderstood Shayan's question about what it is in the underground culture that brings people to choosing the hard way rather than the convenient one: the way I understood the question was why a growing amount of people do choose the convenient ways with tendency growing, hence my answer. To answer his question adequately though (and I can only answer it from my own experience): I personally could never get any kind of creative satisfaction out of making art in a way that doesn't challenge me to confront myself, my fears, my abilities or my limits, that doesn't make me uncomfortable in any way, and ultimately by conquering oneself during this process, or even by failing while trying, one can experience a spark of divinity, to put it romantically. My reason to create art has always been a strong urge to channel and express my creative energy by any means possible. The process of creating something from my own being gives me meaning & purpose (while its absence makes me feel empty and dead in a short amount of time), it teaches me in so many ways about life itself, it leaves blazing trails of experiences that I will carry with me for the rest of my life, and giving "birth" to an album after years of writing and months of recording and producing while touching the outskirts of sanity is the most intense experience every time. How can one experience any of these things by letting a machine do 95% of the work - well the answer is one can't, and that is a point that defies any and all arguments.
This comment should be printed, framed and sent to everyone who thinks that true art can come from a AI... This argument right here should end all future arguments.
Beautifully put!
Thank you for clarifying.
I've been an illustrator working with bands for nearly a decade (hardcore, death metal, tech etc). And one thing I always loved about these underground communities of which I am a part of even as just a fan, is the collector culture, the culture of loving art and expression in itself and how album art and the music reflects that. To see human creativity and expression completely supplanted by servers and algorithms is completely depressing. My misanthropy has grown tenfold since this new uprising. However I hope that in time, we'll get to post saturation where everyone can see this shit , gets totally fed up and that starts a new renaissance in human made art and music. Big fan of this podcast and even more so after watching this episode. Thanks for your great work and discussion.
This is a great topic, and I have to say I agree with all of you 100%. I'm a photographer, mainly spending all of my money traveling thousands of miles to capture night skies and storms. Within the last couple of years I see images of the aurora that are AI-generated that gain so much attraction on social media, when the folks that actually go out, freeze their butts off, and spend money on gear, lodging, and food get so little attention. Not only is this trend insulting, but it's disheartening to those that really want to get their names out there as artists.
I came to conclusion that major deal which separates real artist and AI "artists" that the first one can execute a comission work. That is what AI "artists" cannot do. Their "skills" to execute certain things with prompts is pretty narrowed compared to real artists that can put shapes freely on canvas or set up props for photoshoot
I have to admit, I'm afraid of AI. Not necessarily because of Skynet, but because I don't wanna live in a world where true artists become obsolete...
"Obsolete" in monetary terms and exposure only. Don't forget that... It truly is an injustice. Even more so if it makes it more difficult to find people who really connect with what they do.
Society's basic structure still doesn't promote meaningful work.
Here's a hugging emoji if it can help you relax ~(>_
Really enjoyed this one. I'm not a fan of AI & it's disappointing to see that more & more metal bands seem to be going down this route for album covers. Thanks for this video Shayan.
As a listener of the podcast who often disagreed with quite a few opinions shared, I must say this episode was perfect, thanks for having these guys discuss the subject.
See Chris is like an apparition!
Indeed, happy to deliver!
I am glad this conversation is happening. I go much further than many of the sentiments here though. I completely reject the inevitability of AI taking over art, and reject any commercial commodification or use of it. Art, no matter what the discipline, is given breath and meaning because its genesis and execution is individual and unique human emotion and expression. AI devalues that entirely and robs it of any meaning. All art, artists, and fans of any art should reject AI in any art discipline, in my opinion.
Chris got much closer to that view, which I appreciated.
AI is such a scary concept, I wish we didn't have to live with it. Thanks for discussing it.
Thank you for this refreshing talk and I had the willpower to actually sit through the whole thing, which I rarely achieve in times of "swiping". Here are my 2 cents and maybe I'll write some more in our blog:
We have seen so much things which aimed to turn art into a product over the course of thousands of years. Print killed calligraphy. Movie scores killed live orchestras, CD killed vinyl art (which is now on the rise again luckily), streaming killed physical releases and Ai will kill !some! art. I personal think Ai won't kill !all! art, but mediocre art. Just like all the things that came with trying to make art easier (affordable gear, affordable release-options) so more people will buy. In the end, true art will always be a thing as long as people are willing to do it and as long as people are willing to spend more money for it. Sadly, there will be another wave of people who could live of their effort for years will have to look for another profession. Not the good ones though or the people who do the art for the sake of themselves. Both will lever forever and this is my very definition of Underground dedication! (Comment by Grave)
If AI was around when Mozart was, he would be laughing! As deep down he knows it would outdo those not of his musical calibre but surely not him :D
Guys, the Kerry King album cover was apparently made by Marcelo Vasco. Looking at it, it does look like it's been painted. - OK, Chris mentioned this.
AI is nascent, and I think it may carve its way into a niche, just like any new technology or idea does. But I also see AI as a kind of "vacant promise" currently propelled by Hype and hope of... it making people money.
We are already seeing the effects of AI "art" homogenizing after it is fed its own "work", and it's falling short on that promise as quickly as it rose to prominence. Likewise, the amount of computing power it takes to build these models is immemse. Terrifyingly immense. And no human Think Tank can come up with a solution for the sustainability of that level of power consumption.
Maybe AI will continue to improve. Maybe it will learn to diversify, even when all it sees is it's own dull, lifeless creations. Maybe, even, people will learn to create an entirely new form of art using AI. But will that happen before it consumes itself? I'm not so sure
AI will make digital arts be cheap and averagely good. A bit like fast food, as Adrian mentioned. There will be people who use it, as it is cheap, and there will be people who want real artists because human art has a soul. Real human-made art will and SHOULD always be here. The last 20 years we allowed to be sucked into a digital / fake world of pixels on a screen. I think AI will wake us up to this, and real life items will be important again, as they should. Humans have no purpose in a Digital world, AI does.
I see 🥔 men 🚹
A word of caution...to the objective observer of our culture, the fear of A.I. is viewed as the right-wing's (not that any of you are right wing...I'm not saying that) global warming. It's a fear founded on POTENTIAL cataclysm but with no measurable detriments as we live and breathe now. It's OK to talk about it, but it's become a "bandwagon" talking point that ultimately exposes irrational insecurities (just as global warming has).
Regarding art...speaking as an artist, author, and retired musician...A.I. art is a godsend! It will not devalue all art. It will devalue MEDIOCRE art. It will only hurt the artist who had no right being an artist in the first place. Instead, it will increase the value of meaningful purposeful art that speaks to the INDIVIDUAL'S experiences. Fewer people will demand non-A.I. art, but those who do, will pay much more for it. I contract artists semi-regularly and the prices they demand have escalated substantially in the last few years...as they should. I wouldn't hire a crappy artist. The good ones are paid according to their talents. This relation to talent and payment will be sustained as the loser artists fall by the wayside.
One more point that is worth mentioning...this conversation has been limited to A.I. generated art, but not art created with A.I. methods. For example, Photoshop has been an A.I. art tool for decades. Imagine the boundless ability to command visuals...to speak to (or prompt to) an engine to create EXACTLY WHAT IS IN YOUR MIND. We are in the infancy of A.I. art, so everyone is just reacting to the blandness of MidJourney etc...but there will soon be a day when someone with no manual dexterity to paint or control a mouse in a satisfactory manner can bring their visions to fruition without the baggage of physicality. A.I. tools to create art will eventually be the most accurate means of transposing one's mind and soul.
I'm saying all this because the opinions of everyone on this panel are so common. They aren't seeing the big picture. And their fears are short sighted.