This is hard for me to say. That image of Punk, sat bloodied and battered, eating muffins, dejected and imploding is an image of a man who cannot handle pressure. It is a man who is so against "the man" that he doesn't know how to be "the man". He hated not being the guy in WWE but I believe it was the right decision. He is the Randy Savage of our time. Insanely talented and charismatic but far too chaotic for a position of responsibility. And he knows this. He knows he shouldn't be the guy. Imposter syndrome has set in. Maybe it's a hangover from the Fed and his treatment there. But he isn't Cena. He isn't Brady. He isn't Jordan. He isn't business friendly. He's Punk, in every sense. Punks dont help the establishment. They bring em down. He doesn't know how to be a positive. I hate that this is the case because I LOVE CM Punk. But the reality is, his ethos and morality are that of a number 2 guy.
I could not have said it better myself; very astute observation and probably the best explanation as why it felt…wrong(?) for Punk to win the AEW title. He’s too anti-establishment to be the established guy. He should have just stuck to non-title matches and rivalries.
@@fertilebeef802 thanks Beef! Its took me a while to get to my position on this. It sucks to see a ceiling for your hero. I hope Tony comes to a similar realisation before this gets any worse.
This CM. Punk run is my first time really watching any of his work. I really enjoyed his work until this last month, and all I can think of is the E. Kingston interview you had and his just wait comment. If this childish behavior is how he is I'd rather not have him here messing up AEW and how much I liked it before.
CM Punk is my favourite wrestler. As a 14 year old when the Pipebomb promo was delivered, watching it live he said everything I'd been annoyed about for a couple years. When he left, I was happy that he was brave enough to step away for something for the good of his own health. And when he came back, I cried. I have loved his AEW run and while I didn't want him to beat Hangman as I don't believe he needed the title, I was excited for what would come from it. I say all this so that the context is here when I say that Punk should be fired over his behaviour from these past few weeks. If he were anyone other than the companies top draw this wouldn't even be a debate, and I refuse to let my love of the man or his ability to make money threaten what I believe has been the most enjoyable wrestling promotion to watch over the last 3 years.
Except Punk hasn't made AEW money. He's actually cost them money just due to high much he's being paid. What we're seeing with the ticket sales is just organic growth which is evident if people just go back and look at the numbers. People backstage don't even like him and he's been an asshole to a lot of people like Fish. He shouldn't have come back if all he's going to be on television is Phil Brooks.
I am a huge fan. I was when he was in WWE and more so when he came back. I enjoyed his run run right up to beating Hangman Page. He didn't need the title. I feel he has been pushing himself so much to try and prove people that he can still go, hence all the injuries. I wouldn't fire him. I would have him back after the 8 months and then do a "Flair retirement" angle, where his next loss is his last match, and I would have him lose in Chicago, so he can get a hometown cheer goodbye.
Good comment. I am a fan of CM Punk too as an innovative, popular character. However, I am not a fan of Phil Brooks, who I believe is a trash human and am egotistical, arrogant, selfish bastard. Unfortunately, we cannot just have CM Punk; Phil Brooks is set on ruining it.
Dude my wife called this when Punk started burying everyone in the company during his promos , not once did he put someone over during a promo he talked about how everyone sucked all the time... first promo Mox does post All Out was to put everyone in the tournament over
When CM Punk said that he was "trying to run a company" I realized he didn't have any respect for AEW, Tony Khan as an owner, or the wrestlers that came before him to start the company in the first place.
@@BAYoungblood disagree. CM Punk is a brand that Phil Brooks owns. He is running a business and his business partner is Tony Khan. He had a right to defend the way his brand is portrayed.
@@RobyTalksWrestling I've run events. I was the head of a very small company. I'm not saying that because I'm an expert; I'm saying it so you know that at one point in time, I had to think like this because *I* had a venture that was going to live or die by its public perception: Phil Brooks, in one night, drove the public perception of the CM Punk brand straight into the ground. His injury came after his program with Hangman. He was away for months at a time when no one wanted to see him go. He could've called Tony Khan during that time, said he really wanted to do an interview while he was away, and they could've run a *bidding war* to see who would get it. Sports Illustrated would've paid. Wrestling Observer would've at least thrown their hat in the ring. The folks from this channel likely would've expected the cost to be too high, but I expect they'd toss a modest number out. Chris Van Vliet. Sean Ross Sapp. Any of those entities wins and hears that Punk would like to set the topic and direction of the interview? Done deal, Mr. Punk, and happy for the opportunity; it's money. Instead, after a big event, after winning a championship, after a big return, at the presser where he was meant to answer SOFTBALL questions about those things and keep the energy rolling, for both the good of the company that hired him *and his brand,* he essentially began with "Hey, didn't I see you hanging around with this scumbag five years ago? [Reporter: I mean, yeah, a little, five years ago] UH HUH. You gotta tell people! You gotta tell allllllllllll these people you used to hang out with a scumbag! [Everyone else: uh, I don't know that any of us really consider that guy to be a scumbag] YOU DID! And lemme tell you about some other scumbags! This place? NON-STOP SCUMBAGS! Most of you? TOTAL SCUMBAGS! *Let's lay it all out!*" You wanna talk about the brand of CM Punk? Phil Brooks must want to venture into homemade Crocs, because he seems determined to shoot himself in the foot until he get all them little holes.
I know this is a small detail, but I always thought it was cool that the AEW title became a belt that only the top guys held. Only 4 men had held the belt previously, it made it feel kind of prestigious (except for some bad booking during hangman's reign but I digress). It's a shame that in the span of two months both moxley and punk became two time champions and it wasn't even that big of a deal when mox won the strap back. But again in the scheme of things it's a minor detail
I think Vince retiring will have the biggest impact to wrestling long term from this year but the Gripe Bomb will be seen as the most sensational event of the year
... and the most destructive. Vince going will be a good thing for the industry. Punks antics are only bad. It may have been shocking and compelling in the moment but on reflection? It's just burying so many people and destroying goodwill.
@@chrisseddon5823 I think whether it was destructive or not will greatly depend on if Tony and AEW learn and grow from this or allow it to destroy the locker room. We’ve only seen the initial ramifications of this incident, it’s on AEW to make a positive out of this cluster f they’ve found themselves in.
@@whome6533 12 months ago I woulda trusted Tony to have fixed this. 12 months ago punk came into the company. It may well have been the biggest mistake of his life. This didn't need to happen. Imagine this whole scenario but with danielson. It probably wouldn't have made the same money, granted. But it woulda been so much less drama and negative press.
As someone who also has a CM Punk shirt, Luke's comments about his really hit different. It's an actual debate I'll have to have with myself next time I want to wear it out.
This whole "Stockholm syndrome" Phil has on people is astounding. It's like watching the gf of an abusive relationship defending the man who just put them in the hospital. I've always felt like Phil was a disingenuous little brat who was able to use his words to fool people into thinking he's some sort of good guy when he's really what his name implies, a punk.
This whole thing really made me see CM punk as a guy who wants to be respected like a taker or a Jericho, but doesn't understand how to get to be that. On paper he's doing what he's told, taking people aside and teaching that what he knows, but not realizing that wisdom does not come with doing A then B, it's about actually listening and adapting and being empathetic. Jericho us a guy who is respected because whenever stories come up of some kind of altercation, he throws himself in to shut it down. He doesn't whine and cry about the unprofessionalism, he steps in and deals with the problem. Maybe he knows it gets him clout but what matters is he actually earns it, not demand it. Cena and rock too are leaders because they are empathetic, we've heard all of the stories of the little things they do, not because they are celebrities. Punk does take people aside and teach them but that's how HE wants to do, not because the understands the person he talks to.
Issue is Punk does not have anywhere near the experience of a taker or Jericho. When you look up actual years of experience. He has less than Omega and the Bucks.
Personally I fire him. For at least 2 reasons. 1: Like Luke said, it sends a message that no one person, no matter who they are, how popular they are or how big of a draw they are is more important than this company. 2: Even if you get the just returned, happy Punk from last year, that All Out media scrum Punk is always going to be there and the whole time I'd be wondering well what's the next thing that's going to piss him off and this happens again? And not necessarily if, but when will it happen? It's not worth the hassle, the worry, the drama in the media or the unhappiness of my Roster, many of whom are already saying they don't want him back.
“Bad vibes go a long way in a company that’s built on good vibes.” THIS. Tempest has nailed exactly how I’ve been feeling. The crappy vibes have really turned me off the show lately. This was the first PPV in a while that I didn’t order for just that reason.
Tempest brought up a good point. Because the show has been feeling tense and not as fun as it once was. I remember when Jericho first won the title, it was FUN. I can't help but to look back on Hangman's title reign and feel like it was all to give the belt to Punk and it didn't feel fun
The fact this is also happening at a time when the backstage vibes from WWE seem to be at their best in, probably a decade (maybe more), makes AEW look even worse.
@@BAYoungblood you could tell he was just keeping busy till DON so he could drop the belt. It also felt like the entire run was a “B story” which is how CM Punk felt in WWE when he was champ and Cena was still in the main event. Its funny how things work out
It’s annoying when a wrestler thinks they’re bigger than an organization. CM Punk needs to change his attitude or leave. I prefer the young bucks, private party, Lucha bros, dark order,omega, y2j and hangman era. Moxley on screen reminds me of the good times in AEW. 👍
Was wondering why this was affecting people so hard and why there's more doom and gloom compared to WWE's rough moments and I think it's because of how high the highs were prior. Tons of people (even the entire Wrestle talk staff) were so high on the product with Punk, Cole, Danielson, and Joe all coming in and it feeling like a new era of AEW was coming, but then injuries, the MJF incident, and then Punk's old self coming back were all so sudden and completely derailed the momentum so suddenly (as opposed to the gradual decline into WWE's lower moments)
I don't think Punk will come back. He clearly doesn't like the Elite at this point, and he holds grudges. If he has to work with any of them you can guarantee he will go into business for himself 100% of the time. He will do like with Hangman and say that he won't take losses to them. He came in thinking he would be the top talent there, and that no one else could step to him, but AEW already had amazing talent, many of which are more talented and athletic than him. CM Punks draw is the same thing that makes him a problem... His mouth and his attitude. Just my opinion though.
You know what really made me laugh during the scrum, when punk said that grass is greener where you water it, so that means his WWE career didn't worked cause of him, right?
Really good content from the BCC! I'm really glad you guys went into what Hangman actually said in the promo and the q&a because people keep acting like he kicked Punk's dog or something. It was such an insane overreaction.
This time, I’m completely okay with CM Punk going away and staying away. CM Punk became the HH of AEW and had his own version of “that doesn’t work for me brother” going on.
Punk clearly has issues that go beyond wrestling. Whether it’s anger, pride, self-sabotage, who knows but he needs to get some help. What he did at that scrum was unhinged. I’m expecting him to be gone from AEW, that’s the best outcome in all of this. Keep him far away from that locker room.
Yeah as a long-time Punk fan. It was really exciting to see him back. And it SEEMED like being away from wrestling for 7 years had made him find some kind of piece. And a lot of his early run was awesome. But it seems like he’s a guy who just has deep seated personality issues and he’s almost incapable of being happy? AEW has bent over backwards for him (he’s the ONLY man to pin Moxley clean in AEW to date for example). Why are you still so angry dude? TK might have to cut him loose, just for the sake of the rest of the locker room if nothing else. And I don’t like having to say that.
Some people can’t be happy. The thought of a WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION still stuck over a throwaway line by someone he beat for the title, it shows he’s been given too much too fast.
He's angry because people are spreading lies about him and bringing up personal stuff on TV without talking to him before hand about it, did you watch the scrum it has nothing to do with his booking. How would you like it if I spreaders lies about you?
@@chrisseddon5823 and the bucks and hangman spreader lies about him and cut a promo about something personal without talking to him. I would say that's worse than calling them unprofessional after doing this. Then the bucks showed they are unprofessional after kicking his door in, in any other job you would get fired and fined straight away.
One good thing came out of this that I can think of. Chris Jericho was forced to step up as the true locker room leader and maybe he will be less likely to go back to WWE any time soon. The true Best in the World at what he does!!!!
Honestly since this story is all over the wrestling news sheets I would like to hear more about a story that's not getting as much attention... the Thunder Rosa situation
The thing that really rips my heart out over all this is, after I all but stopped watching wrestling because of WWE's bs, is feeling like the thing that brought me back to wrestling (Punk's return) is the same thing that's killing my love of wrestling again. If Punk is just gonna continue to be a toxic a-hole, then I don't want him back. Just cut him loose and let him be bitter, sad, old man Punk yelling at clouds at home. I don't want to see Punk become an albatross around AEW's neck.
I think in terms of comparing this to Vince's retirement. Vince retiring was something that a lot of wrestling fans expected to happen at one point or another, whether or not he retired or passed away on the job everyone knew something like that would happen eventually. Absolutely nobody thought this would happen at the time it did. The amount of money thrown out the door by Punk by going into business for himself was shocking in a way that nobody ever thought it would happen, AEW has always been promoted as the promise land and besides maybe Cody leaving, this is the biggest hit that the promise land has seen.
For him to change so drastically In just a year I wouldn't trust having him back. How can you trust that another miniscule thing isn't going to set him off again
Fans have stuck their heads in the sand for years. Punk has always been this bitter, nasty guy. Punk fans have to go out of their way to ignore the stories that have been around for decades about this man, how he treats people (friends, family, fans, former lovers). He has shown the world who he is for DECADES. Finally, people are believing him. He is a nasty piece of work.
The trouble is, if the good Punk comes back there'll always be that other side waiting to come out. Even if we get the good Punk, there'll never be a guarantee that the bad Punk won't come back sooner or later. There's plenty of other great wrestlers out there who would love a fraction of the spot Punk has and I think we all need to move on from the likes of Punk because it's us putting him on a pedestal that's fueling that ego of his and enabling him to pull stuff like this. Hate to break this truth in a wrestling context but neither Punk nor any other wrestler is THAT important. It's time to let go
I'm quite sour on punk after this to the point that I honestly don't care to see him back. As for the elite while I get the anger in the moment they should not have even bothered to approach punk after that vent, nothing good was ever going to happen.
@@shadyhavok1 That's it. Punk: "If anyone has an issue with me, I want them to bring it to me." Bucks & Omega: "Uh, I think 'dude just tore us a new one' is - we agree it's an issue, right? *pause* Well, we'd better go round up some third-party witnesses. We're gonna TRY not to come in too hot, but the other dude lit himself on fire already."
I absolutely adore AEW. It's what brought me back to being a wrestling fan after almost 20yrs. With that said I want what's best for the company and if anyone tries to wreck it i don't care who they think they are- THEY NEED TO GO!! IDC what CM Punk thinks abt the management he should've kept that in the back like a professional instead of exposing the business with his outlaw mudshow antics!!
Did anyone notice when they were unifying the belts Punk held the title a little too long when reacting to the fans having mixed reactions. I think that’s when he felt a slighted from the crowd, maybe that’s what added to him being “done”.
Definitely. Match against Hangman? Mixed crowd. Both matches against Moxley? Mixed crowd. Like, that isn't the meat or the potatoes in this whole stew; I bet it still changed the flavor, at least for him.
If Tony hasn’t already I’d put Punk and Hangman in a room together and I’d mediate a conversation between the two to get passed any differences and then I’d do the same with each of the Elite one at a time. And I’d talk to Punk to find what he wants out of the business. Does he want out? Does he want a bunch of dream matches? One thing I wouldn’t do is put the belt on him EVER again! Let him have more like a HBK in the 2000s role it’s more just about big dream matches and great performances and story telling
I’m going to next week’s show with one of my friends. His favorite wrestler is Punk, mine is Kenny. Each of us went to different shows earlier in the year by ourselves and missed out on seeing our favorite wrestlers, I’m sure the show will still be nice but it’s a real bummer that the two guys are off the table because of such a dumb/avoidable situation.
Tempest and I seem to operate on a similar wavelength when it comes to media. A lot of my favourite movies & shows lately could be described as either good or bad for whatever reason, but I have a lot of fun watching them regardless.
Kinda funny that punl who becane as huge as he did was in large part due to his fiery seemingly off the script promos where he could rip into someone is the same guy who went off because of one line someone else said about him in their promo
Tony is lucky he has professionals in the locker room that understand they are not bigger than the company and have a responsibility to themselves and the fans to do the job they are hired to do. Tony needs to build his company around those people and if others aren't willing to shape up then they don't have a place, no matter who they are.
Vince putting Shawn and Bret against each other, though evil and toxic, was to further a potential narrative. CM Punk and the Elite's issues are 100% bad for the locker room morale and seriously hurts the perception of AEW as a whole. Punk was selfish and a potential spike in ratings and sales is not worth poisoning the well.
As a Punk fan I’m disappointed in him, I get how he feels but man he sure isn’t a leader just a raging bull. If he wanted to “expose” the Elites for their bs he needed to do it more intelligently, “Speak softly and carry a big stick” philosophy. I hope he gets let go and reflects as a man and apologizes to his fans and Tony for his actions.
Why isn't anyone talking about the fact Omega and the Bucks have duel roles, as talent, and EVPs. Punk went way over the line in that media scrum, but (if) Kenny and the Bucks went to confront Punk, they should have known WAY better. They have a responsibility (as EVPs), and not just as offended wrestlers. There should be a very clear line between where Omega and the Bucks can get involved with things 1. As wrestlers, and 2. As EVPs. I understand why people are salty about Punk's roll in this (and rightfully so), but Omega and the Bucks have an elevated level of responsibility, to remove themselves from certain issues. Period. The power dynamic that it sets, when your EVPs can get mad about something a performer said, then seemlessly step back into performer status, to confront a performer like they did, only for people to forget that those three have a responsibility to that company. Are the Bucks and Omega suspended as EVPs too? Or are they just suspended as performers? How do you suspend one role, and not both? How do they operate in one role, and not both? If two PERFORMERS got into a fight, that's one thing. You could say that being in a fight with your company's EVPs is a sure fire way to catch hell, but how do you justify the idea that the performers who went to confront someone who was clearly angry, also share the role of EVP, how do you handle that properly? We recently heard a story about a backstage, all hands meeting, where Kenny and the Bucks were much more forceful in their comments (to the roster) than Tony Kahn and others were. If people are considered 'just human' in this situation, how does someone seperate Kenny and the Bucks (as talent) from Kenny and the Bucks (as EVPs), if they thenselves, fail to draw that distinction, with their actions? Look, Punk was wrong, but c'mon guys. We can accept any of this behavior: from Punk (talent) and Omega and the Bucks (talent, BUT FREAKIN' EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENTS)!
@@yxeaviationphotog I seriously hope Khan hasn't locked in/reserved any Dynamite/Rampage dates for Chicago for a good while, at least 7-8 months. Or if he has, that he cancels them and moves them to other cities and actual untapped markets. I feel like Chicago has already been burned out as a market with the number of shows recently, and with all the controversy, being in Chicago would remind AEW and fans consistently of the controversy and it seems they wanna move past that as soon as possible. And part of that is unfortunately staying away from Chicago for a long time At least that way it gives an excuse for AEW to actually debut in the markets that haven't touched yet, like the San Francisco Bay Area and the rest of the Pacific Northwest
Imagine if 2 years ago someone told you that CM Punk was coming back to wrestling to wrestle for AEW. Then they told you that hiring him turned out to be one of the worst decisions they have ever made. Stuff can change fast.
I hope no one gets fired. All the facts need to be gathered. No one person should be bigger than their promotion. Mental health needs to be protected. Egos need to be reigned in. Don't put active performers in positions of authority and with the ability to dictate their own booking.
Punk will apologize when pigs fly... Punk didn't apologize to WWE when he left, he isn't gonna apologize to AEW brass either, especially if he sits at home with a torn tricep, stewing...
Vince McMahon retiring will still be a big story next year. This likely will not. That's not to say I don't think it's a big deal RIGHT NOW, it's a huge deal in this moment, but the results won't be as far-reaching. This is also a far juicier story for fans, the Vince stuff is sadly something we've all known, or at least suspected, for decades. This Punk stuff is just bonkers and I think it exposes him as an absolutely out of control ego-maniac. Punk was out for SEVEN YEARS while Hangman Page was making a career for himself in Japan and AEW, why SHOULD he take advice from Punk?? The one thing the positive Punk stories have in-common is unfortunately: they stroked his ego massively. People singing along to his ROH theme? Younger guys asking him for feedback and to watch their matches? All paying deference to Punk, so of COURSE that's going to be the "one good side" of him, but look how he reacts when someone just says "Nah, I'm good."
I am honestly just so sad that Omega is gone again. He's the one who got me back into wrestling after I stopped watching WWE in 2010. I hope he isn't gone for too long.
The way i see it is, for however long he is injured when he gets healthy you add the suspension on top of it, for however long the suspension the young bucks get added on to punk after he gets back from suspension. Then you add on to his contact the 6-8 month injury time.
I disagree. Punk was clearly depressed with the situation regarding his foot injury. That is going to be amplified by this new injury, recovery and the whole All Out scrum, not to mention the crap leading up to it. Adding the suspension after he recovers is akin to kicking a guy when he's down. If that were to happen to me, I'd walk.
I think the change for the better might be that Tony Khan might realize that he's got to spread around the authority to manage this stuff backstage and stop anything from getting to this stage ever again. If he doesn't have the spine to handle the people stuff and expect it to be sorted out among friends, then he needs to hire someone who will do that for him, and if he wants AEW to be his opportunity to fulfill his dreams as a fantasy booker, then someone else needs to do the rest of it. And in some sense he may realize that after this moment.
Agreed, and I also hope Khan has learned that your heroes can disappoint, and that the power dynamic between promoter and wrestler always means that he can't truly be friends with everyone because almost all the wrestlers, in some way, are just kissing his ass for a better opportunity. Hopefully he learns from all this to be more objective, stop playing favorites in the booking, and if needed, get a couple of the veterans to be the enforcers of the lockerroom in the case of fights or other serious stuff
From what it sounds like now, he will be out for almost a year on suspension/injury, so Tony can just let his contract lapse as he does with everyone else or bring him back if nobody else he has heat with is around next year.
I think Vince retiring is still the biggest news. There is more traffic on wrestling sites and videos for this news because there is no other source to get info from. Every knew or could assume why Vince retired and there was not much to dive into but for this news there is no footage or any official word from the company. It is just reported via sources within the company through the dirt sheets, that is why there is more traffic on this news. In short, this news is more interesting (because no one knows anything) but Vince news is much bigger.
I think that punk knowing he is hurt again, this might have also had him in a pissed off mood and the pot just boiled over and he let it fly. I know being a athlete myself being hurt and knowing you are probably gonna be out a long time will piss you off.
100% punk should be fired. The press conference was premeditated, and he threatened legal action on the elite during the fight. This moron tired to goat the EVPs of the company into a fight so he could sue. I hope punk never wrestles again, tbh. AEW don't need him.
As a Punk fan I am bummed out but Punk has shown his true colours. He seems to be a toxic narcassist. He has to suspended beyond his injury or just fired. Sigh.
Let’s not pretend the Elite are innocent here. Not only did they spread the rumors that led to this situation, they allowed themselves to get into a physical altercation as EXECUTIVE OFFICERS OF THE COMPANY. They should have asked Tony to handle it like professionals, not barge into his locker room like hotheaded teenage douches. Bottom line: Both sides acted unprofessional, and should face consequences short of firing. Fines, suspensions, apologies, losing office titles l, the works. But AEW is much stronger with them than without them.
I don't buy it with Tony said they planned it, what's a way to avoid losing investors and morale? Pull the old "aye its fake!" card. Avoids the legality I'm sure that's heavily being pushed, keeps Punk with the company while diminishing the fire from burning more. CM Punk should absolutely be let go because, was it planned too burying Colt's mom and the company? Pulling this doesn't save face, just shows panic and incompetence.
I think it's the biggest story for people plugged into the product. But not the biggest in terms of widely available audience. AEW gets a very vocal and dedicated crowd, so people will be reactive to this story, but the WSJ is not covering Punk vs the Elite.
I also think something to note is just the landscape and culture of wrestling has changed so much since this all started. Punk dropped the pipe bomb saying everything that we as internet wrestling fans felt and had been sick and then he left right at the time that triple h was starting to book NXT and that grew and grew and then AEW started and between those two entities we were getting what we had been denied from at least main roster WWE then punk came back and it was a celebration of vindication of we were right to want this style and type of wrestling now Vince is gone and triple h has taken over we won essentially so where does that leave punk? He was the avatar for our disappointment and range against Vince who's now gone so punk doesn't really stand for us anymore and instead he comes across like the New York Yankees to quote his promo against John Cena. Punk seems to be the entitled elitist who only cares about himself because it wasn't that he was saying that hangman jeopardized the first million dollar gate he said he jeopardized what I did the first million dollar gate that I brought and I think that's the change right there it went from being about us and being to being about me. Which shouldn't be a surprise mean go all the way back to the pipe bomb it was I wasn't on the program I wasn't on this I wasn't on that and I should be and we agreed he should have been but now it's I'm not getting my way when I'm already at the top I'm already being featured I'm already champion it rings a bit different
I find it funny that Punk was talking about Hangman going in to business for himself ( and I don,t think his promo was that anyway) but that scrum was all about Punk himself, Everything about it was someone going in to business for themselves. I was one of those who was out of wrestling for nearly 20 years. Never watch WWE. I watched WCW to the end and AEW brought me back. I have no connection to Punk at all so would rather see him go.
Luke your take on your CM PUNK shirt is exactly how I feel too. Going through my drawer the other day and came across my cm punk shirt and said yeah right....I cried when he returned too. This wasn't how it was supposed to go at all.
CM Punk is such a fascinating topic. I wasn't watching WWE at the time he was there so I wasn't connected to him. I found it annoying he wouldn't fight JDF in MMA because JDF "just wanted clout" but would lose to everyone else. I was in the camp of not liking the "cm punk return confirmed" gag. BUT I did find it cool that he came to aew, what it meant to his fans. I watched the first couple of weeks and ppvs he was on. And thought "he ain't so bad." Now I'm just like eh...
Punk was signed to the UFC. JDF wasn’t and never really had the chance of being signed to them. JDF was chasing clout. Not because he thought he couldn’t beat him or anything. But he knew there was no chance that the UFC would ever sign him or that any other promotion would be willing to pay Punk what UFC did.
This is simple - if Punk (or the Elite) is willing to be professional and turn this into an angle and make a lot of money for everyone as a result of this, he stays. If he (or the Elite) doesn’t, Tony should fire him (or them).
No one asked him about cabana. He saw a reporter, and that set him off. Tc sitting next to him was even more cringe worthy. Aew start fresh without punk. Make a new star of the great talent you have. Mjf should be your top guy.
This is a work if you ask me. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that CM Punk was injured during the match and then suspended? I think it’s better publicity. Just look at the ratings for Dynamite after his first injury and his second. It’s been said to death in the wrestling business but controversies create cash.
I don't understand why its a question. Is this the only business that getting fired is not a good thing? This is real life and a business. If this was wrestletalk and Lets say Adam/Laurie were punk and they treated Luke and Oli the same and this all unfolded like that? would you still say we don't want that Adam we want the Adam before and he keeps his Job? Or is Adam/Laurie insta fired without a second thought?
Props to Matt and Edge being able to remain professional and work together. The only issue was WWE being petty and punishing Matt by squashing him at Summerslam for mentioning ROH on Raw and for tempting to sign with them before coming back.
You know what it is for me?, ya remember Christian’s initial heel promo? When he was talking about wanting this for the check and not to put guys over. I feel that either Phil is like that or his peers view him as that.
As a Dad I am disappointed as well but At least we got some good matches out of it. I selfishly want CM Punk to still be in the game and the game to come out. WWF no mercy was a great game and to have this AEW one come out would be graat.
Looking at everything, I dont think we will get the CM punk chants. I truly think this has shined a light on how horrible CM punk is as a person. As a performer? Top notch! What wrestlers aspire to be. As a person his legacy is done. Not ruined but just wont have the hype as it use to. His anticipation before AEW was because of how WWE mistreated him, he will now be known for how HE mistreated AEW. AEW should move on from Punk, establish there own stars and build there product around AEW wrestlers, not have a wrestler dictate how to you build your company.
That happens in every major business. It’s unavoidable. Anytime you have a ladder to climb there’s going to be people that will do whatever it takes to get to the top of it. Been like that basically forever.
@@madebyjonny7637 Most of this stuff happening in wrestling isnt aired on TV. We learn about it through dirt sheets and news outlets. Nothing about the Cody situation was ever aired on TV. Nothing about the AEW brawl was aired on TV,
From what I hear from other podcast that Megan came in with the elite opening the door not kicking it and that Megan try to protect cm punk dog after punk throws the first punch and getting the chair throw at .. But that is just what I heard from her story. Plus if that is true that elite kick the door down why would they bring the 2nd important person under tony khan to come with them to talk to cm punk.
I honestly think ultimately it all comes down to Colt Cabana, living in CM Punk's head rent free. It doesn't matter how much Punk says he doesn't care about it, c'mon, you can feel the hatred in his words at the scrum, how he even brought Cabana's mother into it, those are not the words or the body language of somebody who is over it. I think what ignited Punk's very short fuse was not the content of the promo, I'll say not even the fact that Hangman was unprofessional and over the line in shooting at Punk, I honestly think it was because Punk knew it all stemmed from support to Colt Cabana from Hangman, even if just implied. Think about Dynamite just days before, Punk *snapped* the moment he heard some fans chanting for Colt and he IMMEDIATELY went after them. I think Punk used the unprofessionalism excuse to go off at everybody and feeling justified, I'd argue it's probably what he convinced himself of being pissed off about other than what he wants people to believe, because he hates that the Cabana situation has still so much power and influence over him. It's not just the past but the fact that people blamed him for Colt's contract situation. I'd argue maybe Punk really had nothing to do with it and came in with the intention of stay as far from Colt as he could, and probably viceversa. But both Colt and his friends backstage might have thought Punk was behind Tony's choice to not renew Colt's contract and that's what prompt Hangman to cross the line and shoot about it, even if subtly. And Punk, knowing the rumor was out of him having to do with it, was even more enraged by it and went full "worst Punk", angry, vengeful, spiteful, paranoid, arrogant. But SRS and others said that the Elite never spoke to them about it and many people said it was just speculation the idea that Punk was behind, but let's be honest, that's an easy idea to get if you know their history. That's why I think *no one* is the good guy in this situation. Punk still probably always held this grudge against Colt in a very childish, immature way, the kind where people just can't think straight when that one person is involved, while Hangman and the others probably assumed Punk was behind Colt's possible firing without real proof, Hangman probably shot without giving too much thought about it, Punk just assumed he and the Elite had to be the ones preading the rumor and went off on them and ultimately everybody played macho with the big confrontation backstage. Even in a scenario like this, everybody messed up.
Everything you're saying is true. The only thing missing is why he acted out at the media scrum. Punk knew that they would never give up sources, and even called out Alvarez by name on it because Punk knows Alvarez and Meltzer are the feed line directly to The Elite when it comes to news. Plus, the media guys never bothered to ask Punk his side! They just rolled the story, it gained steam, other outlets ran it without asking Punk. His intention at the scrum was to make it aware to the reporters and outlets that he never wants to speak about Colt ever again, and here are the facts of the contract change. And even Tony backed up Punk at that part of the outburst. Tony agreed that he should've spoken up about it the first time. All parties involved are wrong. I just wanna know how the locker room fight unfolded second by second.
dude second punk signed to aew i said thats colt fired soon, it happened i really wouldnt be suprised if he was the reason personally! i also said give 2 years and he will quit, hes a year early lol just wish i had put money on it with my mate lol
I have the exact same thing, I keep seeing the 2 CM Punk shirts I bought a year ago in my closet and I can’t bare to even unfold them. Genuinely considered throwing them out.
I feel like I'm in the minority that don't see this as something THAT serious, was it unprofessional of Punk to do a public burial, 100% but it's not like this is something new, a fallout backstage, ok, so... I like Punk and the Elite, I just don't see any reason as to why this hurts the company in the long term, it's still a business, a business where turnover rate is fairly high, wrestlers come and go or maybe I've just come to terms years and years ago that Punk will be Punk so this wasn't really something that took me by surprise 🤷🏾♂️.
I thought I was the only one, I really didn’t think it was that deep. Maybe a bad look for the Elite as EVPs but not permanently damaging, and as a Punk fan you know how it goes
"Crisps on toast, no one sounds good in this story". The most British thing I've ever heard before, and I've been subscribed for like....3 or 4 years now
CM Punk didn’t attack Khan personally, but he did by proxy which is still bad, if Tony recognizes it. Yes, I’m sure friends of the “Elite” were taken aback, but Danielson or Sting or Darby Allin? The executive team of what? The “EVPs”? Or does AEW have an actual board of directors we don’t know about? Why would the production team be mad at Punk? He hasn’t used the amount of the 7 dirty words or other “indecent” actions others have.
This is hard for me to say.
That image of Punk, sat bloodied and battered, eating muffins, dejected and imploding is an image of a man who cannot handle pressure. It is a man who is so against "the man" that he doesn't know how to be "the man". He hated not being the guy in WWE but I believe it was the right decision.
He is the Randy Savage of our time. Insanely talented and charismatic but far too chaotic for a position of responsibility.
And he knows this. He knows he shouldn't be the guy. Imposter syndrome has set in. Maybe it's a hangover from the Fed and his treatment there. But he isn't Cena. He isn't Brady. He isn't Jordan. He isn't business friendly. He's Punk, in every sense. Punks dont help the establishment. They bring em down. He doesn't know how to be a positive.
I hate that this is the case because I LOVE CM Punk. But the reality is, his ethos and morality are that of a number 2 guy.
I could not have said it better myself; very astute observation and probably the best explanation as why it felt…wrong(?) for Punk to win the AEW title. He’s too anti-establishment to be the established guy. He should have just stuck to non-title matches and rivalries.
Hear, hear. Beautifully said, brother.
@@rooky3526 thank you! I really appreciate the response.
@@fertilebeef802 thanks Beef! Its took me a while to get to my position on this. It sucks to see a ceiling for your hero.
I hope Tony comes to a similar realisation before this gets any worse.
He’s better than Cena
This CM. Punk run is my first time really watching any of his work. I really enjoyed his work until this last month, and all I can think of is the E. Kingston interview you had and his just wait comment. If this childish behavior is how he is I'd rather not have him here messing up AEW and how much I liked it before.
CM Punk is my favourite wrestler. As a 14 year old when the Pipebomb promo was delivered, watching it live he said everything I'd been annoyed about for a couple years. When he left, I was happy that he was brave enough to step away for something for the good of his own health. And when he came back, I cried. I have loved his AEW run and while I didn't want him to beat Hangman as I don't believe he needed the title, I was excited for what would come from it. I say all this so that the context is here when I say that Punk should be fired over his behaviour from these past few weeks. If he were anyone other than the companies top draw this wouldn't even be a debate, and I refuse to let my love of the man or his ability to make money threaten what I believe has been the most enjoyable wrestling promotion to watch over the last 3 years.
Except Punk hasn't made AEW money. He's actually cost them money just due to high much he's being paid. What we're seeing with the ticket sales is just organic growth which is evident if people just go back and look at the numbers. People backstage don't even like him and he's been an asshole to a lot of people like Fish. He shouldn't have come back if all he's going to be on television is Phil Brooks.
I am a huge fan. I was when he was in WWE and more so when he came back. I enjoyed his run run right up to beating Hangman Page. He didn't need the title. I feel he has been pushing himself so much to try and prove people that he can still go, hence all the injuries.
I wouldn't fire him. I would have him back after the 8 months and then do a "Flair retirement" angle, where his next loss is his last match, and I would have him lose in Chicago, so he can get a hometown cheer goodbye.
Good comment. I am a fan of CM Punk too as an innovative, popular character. However, I am not a fan of Phil Brooks, who I believe is a trash human and am egotistical, arrogant, selfish bastard. Unfortunately, we cannot just have CM Punk; Phil Brooks is set on ruining it.
@@DJVOOZy8x Blunt people usually are.
I strongly agree
Dude my wife called this when Punk started burying everyone in the company during his promos , not once did he put someone over during a promo he talked about how everyone sucked all the time... first promo Mox does post All Out was to put everyone in the tournament over
When CM Punk said that he was "trying to run a company" I realized he didn't have any respect for AEW, Tony Khan as an owner, or the wrestlers that came before him to start the company in the first place.
@@death-by-ego thanks for clearing that up. Regardless of it all. It was disrespectful to say it the way that he did in front of Tony Khan
@@BAYoungblood disagree. CM Punk is a brand that Phil Brooks owns. He is running a business and his business partner is Tony Khan.
He had a right to defend the way his brand is portrayed.
@@RobyTalksWrestling I've run events. I was the head of a very small company. I'm not saying that because I'm an expert; I'm saying it so you know that at one point in time, I had to think like this because *I* had a venture that was going to live or die by its public perception:
Phil Brooks, in one night, drove the public perception of the CM Punk brand straight into the ground.
His injury came after his program with Hangman. He was away for months at a time when no one wanted to see him go.
He could've called Tony Khan during that time, said he really wanted to do an interview while he was away, and they could've run a *bidding war* to see who would get it. Sports Illustrated would've paid. Wrestling Observer would've at least thrown their hat in the ring. The folks from this channel likely would've expected the cost to be too high, but I expect they'd toss a modest number out. Chris Van Vliet. Sean Ross Sapp. Any of those entities wins and hears that Punk would like to set the topic and direction of the interview? Done deal, Mr. Punk, and happy for the opportunity; it's money.
Instead, after a big event, after winning a championship, after a big return,
at the presser where he was meant to answer SOFTBALL questions about those things and keep the energy rolling, for both the good of the company that hired him *and his brand,*
he essentially began with "Hey, didn't I see you hanging around with this scumbag five years ago?
[Reporter: I mean, yeah, a little, five years ago]
UH HUH. You gotta tell people! You gotta tell allllllllllll these people you used to hang out with a scumbag!
[Everyone else: uh, I don't know that any of us really consider that guy to be a scumbag]
YOU DID! And lemme tell you about some other scumbags! This place? NON-STOP SCUMBAGS! Most of you? TOTAL SCUMBAGS! *Let's lay it all out!*"
You wanna talk about the brand of CM Punk? Phil Brooks must want to venture into homemade Crocs, because he seems determined to shoot himself in the foot until he get all them little holes.
I know this is a small detail, but I always thought it was cool that the AEW title became a belt that only the top guys held. Only 4 men had held the belt previously, it made it feel kind of prestigious (except for some bad booking during hangman's reign but I digress). It's a shame that in the span of two months both moxley and punk became two time champions and it wasn't even that big of a deal when mox won the strap back. But again in the scheme of things it's a minor detail
Punk doesn't really give a damn what people think about him. He didn't change for WWE and he's not going to change for AEW.
I think Vince retiring will have the biggest impact to wrestling long term from this year but the Gripe Bomb will be seen as the most sensational event of the year
... and the most destructive. Vince going will be a good thing for the industry. Punks antics are only bad. It may have been shocking and compelling in the moment but on reflection? It's just burying so many people and destroying goodwill.
@@chrisseddon5823 I think whether it was destructive or not will greatly depend on if Tony and AEW learn and grow from this or allow it to destroy the locker room. We’ve only seen the initial ramifications of this incident, it’s on AEW to make a positive out of this cluster f they’ve found themselves in.
@@whome6533 12 months ago I woulda trusted Tony to have fixed this. 12 months ago punk came into the company. It may well have been the biggest mistake of his life. This didn't need to happen. Imagine this whole scenario but with danielson. It probably wouldn't have made the same money, granted. But it woulda been so much less drama and negative press.
As someone who also has a CM Punk shirt, Luke's comments about his really hit different. It's an actual debate I'll have to have with myself next time I want to wear it out.
This whole "Stockholm syndrome" Phil has on people is astounding. It's like watching the gf of an abusive relationship defending the man who just put them in the hospital.
I've always felt like Phil was a disingenuous little brat who was able to use his words to fool people into thinking he's some sort of good guy when he's really what his name implies, a punk.
Agree with you I was never captivated by punk I thought he was a good promo and an ok wrestler but incredibly overrated and an egotistical prick
This whole thing really made me see CM punk as a guy who wants to be respected like a taker or a Jericho, but doesn't understand how to get to be that. On paper he's doing what he's told, taking people aside and teaching that what he knows, but not realizing that wisdom does not come with doing A then B, it's about actually listening and adapting and being empathetic.
Jericho us a guy who is respected because whenever stories come up of some kind of altercation, he throws himself in to shut it down. He doesn't whine and cry about the unprofessionalism, he steps in and deals with the problem. Maybe he knows it gets him clout but what matters is he actually earns it, not demand it.
Cena and rock too are leaders because they are empathetic, we've heard all of the stories of the little things they do, not because they are celebrities. Punk does take people aside and teach them but that's how HE wants to do, not because the understands the person he talks to.
Issue is Punk does not have anywhere near the experience of a taker or Jericho.
When you look up actual years of experience. He has less than Omega and the Bucks.
Jericho got in Lesnar's face. Thats respect enough. Dude is fearless. Also he shows massive respect to those who came before him.
Personally I fire him. For at least 2 reasons.
1: Like Luke said, it sends a message that no one person, no matter who they are, how popular they are or how big of a draw they are is more important than this company.
2: Even if you get the just returned, happy Punk from last year, that All Out media scrum Punk is always going to be there and the whole time I'd be wondering well what's the next thing that's going to piss him off and this happens again? And not necessarily if, but when will it happen? It's not worth the hassle, the worry, the drama in the media or the unhappiness of my Roster, many of whom are already saying they don't want him back.
“Bad vibes go a long way in a company that’s built on good vibes.”
THIS. Tempest has nailed exactly how I’ve been feeling. The crappy vibes have really turned me off the show lately. This was the first PPV in a while that I didn’t order for just that reason.
Tempest brought up a good point. Because the show has been feeling tense and not as fun as it once was. I remember when Jericho first won the title, it was FUN. I can't help but to look back on Hangman's title reign and feel like it was all to give the belt to Punk and it didn't feel fun
The fact this is also happening at a time when the backstage vibes from WWE seem to be at their best in, probably a decade (maybe more), makes AEW look even worse.
This week's Dynamite honestly felt like a weight had been lifted.
@@BAYoungblood you could tell he was just keeping busy till DON so he could drop the belt. It also felt like the entire run was a “B story” which is how CM Punk felt in WWE when he was champ and Cena was still in the main event. Its funny how things work out
You think this is why Vince was forcing Ronda and Raquel to smile.
“Give good vibes, damn it”
It’s annoying when a wrestler thinks they’re bigger than an organization. CM Punk needs to change his attitude or leave. I prefer the young bucks, private party, Lucha bros, dark order,omega, y2j and hangman era. Moxley on screen reminds me of the good times in AEW. 👍
Was wondering why this was affecting people so hard and why there's more doom and gloom compared to WWE's rough moments and I think it's because of how high the highs were prior. Tons of people (even the entire Wrestle talk staff) were so high on the product with Punk, Cole, Danielson, and Joe all coming in and it feeling like a new era of AEW was coming, but then injuries, the MJF incident, and then Punk's old self coming back were all so sudden and completely derailed the momentum so suddenly (as opposed to the gradual decline into WWE's lower moments)
I don't think Punk will come back. He clearly doesn't like the Elite at this point, and he holds grudges. If he has to work with any of them you can guarantee he will go into business for himself 100% of the time. He will do like with Hangman and say that he won't take losses to them. He came in thinking he would be the top talent there, and that no one else could step to him, but AEW already had amazing talent, many of which are more talented and athletic than him. CM Punks draw is the same thing that makes him a problem... His mouth and his attitude. Just my opinion though.
You know what really made me laugh during the scrum, when punk said that grass is greener where you water it, so that means his WWE career didn't worked cause of him, right?
Really good content from the BCC! I'm really glad you guys went into what Hangman actually said in the promo and the q&a because people keep acting like he kicked Punk's dog or something. It was such an insane overreaction.
This time, I’m completely okay with CM Punk going away and staying away. CM Punk became the HH of AEW and had his own version of “that doesn’t work for me brother” going on.
Punk clearly has issues that go beyond wrestling. Whether it’s anger, pride, self-sabotage, who knows but he needs to get some help. What he did at that scrum was unhinged. I’m expecting him to be gone from AEW, that’s the best outcome in all of this. Keep him far away from that locker room.
Yeah as a long-time Punk fan. It was really exciting to see him back. And it SEEMED like being away from wrestling for 7 years had made him find some kind of piece. And a lot of his early run was awesome.
But it seems like he’s a guy who just has deep seated personality issues and he’s almost incapable of being happy? AEW has bent over backwards for him (he’s the ONLY man to pin Moxley clean in AEW to date for example). Why are you still so angry dude?
TK might have to cut him loose, just for the sake of the rest of the locker room if nothing else. And I don’t like having to say that.
Some people can’t be happy. The thought of a WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION still stuck over a throwaway line by someone he beat for the title, it shows he’s been given too much too fast.
@@DJVOOZy8x this. Also, page is cobana's mate, so anything he says against punk, punk will take personally. He's worked himself into a shoot, brother.
He's angry because people are spreading lies about him and bringing up personal stuff on TV without talking to him before hand about it, did you watch the scrum it has nothing to do with his booking. How would you like it if I spreaders lies about you?
@@crazygingerjakeholden2771 he called the bucks and page unprofessional. How can he hold the high ground after this?
@@chrisseddon5823 and the bucks and hangman spreader lies about him and cut a promo about something personal without talking to him. I would say that's worse than calling them unprofessional after doing this. Then the bucks showed they are unprofessional after kicking his door in, in any other job you would get fired and fined straight away.
One good thing came out of this that I can think of. Chris Jericho was forced to step up as the true locker room leader and maybe he will be less likely to go back to WWE any time soon. The true Best in the World at what he does!!!!
Honestly since this story is all over the wrestling news sheets I would like to hear more about a story that's not getting as much attention... the Thunder Rosa situation
I only watch WWE. Thank you very much
I don't care about AEW
@@CulEdz pretty much lmfao
The thing that really rips my heart out over all this is, after I all but stopped watching wrestling because of WWE's bs, is feeling like the thing that brought me back to wrestling (Punk's return) is the same thing that's killing my love of wrestling again. If Punk is just gonna continue to be a toxic a-hole, then I don't want him back. Just cut him loose and let him be bitter, sad, old man Punk yelling at clouds at home. I don't want to see Punk become an albatross around AEW's neck.
Just gone back and watched the Kingston interview you guys did. Man was right.
I think in terms of comparing this to Vince's retirement. Vince retiring was something that a lot of wrestling fans expected to happen at one point or another, whether or not he retired or passed away on the job everyone knew something like that would happen eventually.
Absolutely nobody thought this would happen at the time it did. The amount of money thrown out the door by Punk by going into business for himself was shocking in a way that nobody ever thought it would happen, AEW has always been promoted as the promise land and besides maybe Cody leaving, this is the biggest hit that the promise land has seen.
The phrase is "promised land".
I can't imagine the locker room reacting positively to anything other than a Punk release at this point.
For him to change so drastically In just a year I wouldn't trust having him back. How can you trust that another miniscule thing isn't going to set him off again
I loved Punk, but I love AEW more and if he is the poison than cut him off, bandage the damage and move on
If the young bucks continue there its going to continue to happen. They are bullies. So all should be fired. CM Punk and Elite.
"It's very hard to try and look at this and be a fan" - Tempest perfectly summed up the way I and probably a lot fans feel right now.
Fans have stuck their heads in the sand for years. Punk has always been this bitter, nasty guy. Punk fans have to go out of their way to ignore the stories that have been around for decades about this man, how he treats people (friends, family, fans, former lovers). He has shown the world who he is for DECADES. Finally, people are believing him. He is a nasty piece of work.
The trouble is, if the good Punk comes back there'll always be that other side waiting to come out. Even if we get the good Punk, there'll never be a guarantee that the bad Punk won't come back sooner or later.
There's plenty of other great wrestlers out there who would love a fraction of the spot Punk has and I think we all need to move on from the likes of Punk because it's us putting him on a pedestal that's fueling that ego of his and enabling him to pull stuff like this. Hate to break this truth in a wrestling context but neither Punk nor any other wrestler is THAT important. It's time to let go
I'm quite sour on punk after this to the point that I honestly don't care to see him back. As for the elite while I get the anger in the moment they should not have even bothered to approach punk after that vent, nothing good was ever going to happen.
they brought legal and talent relations to talk after he told them to...
@@shadyhavok1 That's it.
Punk: "If anyone has an issue with me, I want them to bring it to me."
Bucks & Omega: "Uh, I think 'dude just tore us a new one' is - we agree it's an issue, right? *pause* Well, we'd better go round up some third-party witnesses. We're gonna TRY not to come in too hot, but the other dude lit himself on fire already."
I absolutely adore AEW. It's what brought me back to being a wrestling fan after almost 20yrs. With that said I want what's best for the company and if anyone tries to wreck it i don't care who they think they are- THEY NEED TO GO!!
IDC what CM Punk thinks abt the management he should've kept that in the back like a professional instead of exposing the business with his outlaw mudshow antics!!
Did anyone notice when they were unifying the belts Punk held the title a little too long when reacting to the fans having mixed reactions. I think that’s when he felt a slighted from the crowd, maybe that’s what added to him being “done”.
Definitely. Match against Hangman? Mixed crowd. Both matches against Moxley? Mixed crowd. Like, that isn't the meat or the potatoes in this whole stew; I bet it still changed the flavor, at least for him.
If Tony hasn’t already I’d put Punk and Hangman in a room together and I’d mediate a conversation between the two to get passed any differences and then I’d do the same with each of the Elite one at a time. And I’d talk to Punk to find what he wants out of the business. Does he want out? Does he want a bunch of dream matches? One thing I wouldn’t do is put the belt on him EVER again! Let him have more like a HBK in the 2000s role it’s more just about big dream matches and great performances and story telling
I’m going to next week’s show with one of my friends. His favorite wrestler is Punk, mine is Kenny. Each of us went to different shows earlier in the year by ourselves and missed out on seeing our favorite wrestlers, I’m sure the show will still be nice but it’s a real bummer that the two guys are off the table because of such a dumb/avoidable situation.
Tempest and I seem to operate on a similar wavelength when it comes to media. A lot of my favourite movies & shows lately could be described as either good or bad for whatever reason, but I have a lot of fun watching them regardless.
*Hunter was right about Punk*
Kinda funny that punl who becane as huge as he did was in large part due to his fiery seemingly off the script promos where he could rip into someone is the same guy who went off because of one line someone else said about him in their promo
Now it’s revealed that Punk premeditated all of this making him worse of a human being than he already was.
I agree with Luke's feelings on the matter. I'm not angry. I'm just disappointed
Tony is lucky he has professionals in the locker room that understand they are not bigger than the company and have a responsibility to themselves and the fans to do the job they are hired to do. Tony needs to build his company around those people and if others aren't willing to shape up then they don't have a place, no matter who they are.
Vince putting Shawn and Bret against each other, though evil and toxic, was to further a potential narrative. CM Punk and the Elite's issues are 100% bad for the locker room morale and seriously hurts the perception of AEW as a whole. Punk was selfish and a potential spike in ratings and sales is not worth poisoning the well.
As a Punk fan I’m disappointed in him, I get how he feels but man he sure isn’t a leader just a raging bull. If he wanted to “expose” the Elites for their bs he needed to do it more intelligently, “Speak softly and carry a big stick” philosophy. I hope he gets let go and reflects as a man and apologizes to his fans and Tony for his actions.
“No body wants you here they never wanted you here” Eddie Kingston 2021 👀👀👀👀
It felt great to watch Dynamite this week. Felt like a foot was lifted off its throat.
Yes CM Punk needs to go.
My brother and I had pretty much the exact same conversation as this, especially the stuff about Punk saying Hangman jeopardised the gate.
As a true wrestling fan I loved WCW and welcome AEW do because they are unlike WWE
Why isn't anyone talking about the fact Omega and the Bucks have duel roles, as talent, and EVPs. Punk went way over the line in that media scrum, but (if) Kenny and the Bucks went to confront Punk, they should have known WAY better. They have a responsibility (as EVPs), and not just as offended wrestlers. There should be a very clear line between where Omega and the Bucks can get involved with things 1. As wrestlers, and 2. As EVPs.
I understand why people are salty about Punk's roll in this (and rightfully so), but Omega and the Bucks have an elevated level of responsibility, to remove themselves from certain issues. Period. The power dynamic that it sets, when your EVPs can get mad about something a performer said, then seemlessly step back into performer status, to confront a performer like they did, only for people to forget that those three have a responsibility to that company. Are the Bucks and Omega suspended as EVPs too? Or are they just suspended as performers? How do you suspend one role, and not both? How do they operate in one role, and not both? If two PERFORMERS got into a fight, that's one thing. You could say that being in a fight with your company's EVPs is a sure fire way to catch hell, but how do you justify the idea that the performers who went to confront someone who was clearly angry, also share the role of EVP, how do you handle that properly?
We recently heard a story about a backstage, all hands meeting, where Kenny and the Bucks were much more forceful in their comments (to the roster) than Tony Kahn and others were. If people are considered 'just human' in this situation, how does someone seperate Kenny and the Bucks (as talent) from Kenny and the Bucks (as EVPs), if they thenselves, fail to draw that distinction, with their actions?
Look, Punk was wrong, but c'mon guys. We can accept any of this behavior: from Punk (talent) and Omega and the Bucks (talent, BUT FREAKIN' EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENTS)!
No CM Punk chants at the show this week. I think when he no showed WWE everyone blamed the company. This time its all on him
Wait until the next AEW show in Chicago.
@@yxeaviationphotog I seriously hope Khan hasn't locked in/reserved any Dynamite/Rampage dates for Chicago for a good while, at least 7-8 months. Or if he has, that he cancels them and moves them to other cities and actual untapped markets.
I feel like Chicago has already been burned out as a market with the number of shows recently, and with all the controversy, being in Chicago would remind AEW and fans consistently of the controversy and it seems they wanna move past that as soon as possible. And part of that is unfortunately staying away from Chicago for a long time
At least that way it gives an excuse for AEW to actually debut in the markets that haven't touched yet, like the San Francisco Bay Area and the rest of the Pacific Northwest
Imagine if 2 years ago someone told you that CM Punk was coming back to wrestling to wrestle for AEW. Then they told you that hiring him turned out to be one of the worst decisions they have ever made. Stuff can change fast.
Tempest not watching Dynamite is the Wrestletalk version of Roman not showing up on TV
I hope no one gets fired. All the facts need to be gathered. No one person should be bigger than their promotion. Mental health needs to be protected. Egos need to be reigned in. Don't put active performers in positions of authority and with the ability to dictate their own booking.
Punk will apologize when pigs fly... Punk didn't apologize to WWE when he left, he isn't gonna apologize to AEW brass either, especially if he sits at home with a torn tricep, stewing...
Vince McMahon retiring will still be a big story next year. This likely will not. That's not to say I don't think it's a big deal RIGHT NOW, it's a huge deal in this moment, but the results won't be as far-reaching. This is also a far juicier story for fans, the Vince stuff is sadly something we've all known, or at least suspected, for decades.
This Punk stuff is just bonkers and I think it exposes him as an absolutely out of control ego-maniac. Punk was out for SEVEN YEARS while Hangman Page was making a career for himself in Japan and AEW, why SHOULD he take advice from Punk?? The one thing the positive Punk stories have in-common is unfortunately: they stroked his ego massively. People singing along to his ROH theme? Younger guys asking him for feedback and to watch their matches? All paying deference to Punk, so of COURSE that's going to be the "one good side" of him, but look how he reacts when someone just says "Nah, I'm good."
I am honestly just so sad that Omega is gone again. He's the one who got me back into wrestling after I stopped watching WWE in 2010. I hope he isn't gone for too long.
Aww. Tempest, watch the Dynamite. It was a great show which diffused the onscreen bad tension which has been brewing the last few weeks.
The way i see it is, for however long he is injured when he gets healthy you add the suspension on top of it, for however long the suspension the young bucks get added on to punk after he gets back from suspension. Then you add on to his contact the 6-8 month injury time.
I disagree. Punk was clearly depressed with the situation regarding his foot injury. That is going to be amplified by this new injury, recovery and the whole All Out scrum, not to mention the crap leading up to it. Adding the suspension after he recovers is akin to kicking a guy when he's down. If that were to happen to me, I'd walk.
I think the change for the better might be that Tony Khan might realize that he's got to spread around the authority to manage this stuff backstage and stop anything from getting to this stage ever again. If he doesn't have the spine to handle the people stuff and expect it to be sorted out among friends, then he needs to hire someone who will do that for him, and if he wants AEW to be his opportunity to fulfill his dreams as a fantasy booker, then someone else needs to do the rest of it.
And in some sense he may realize that after this moment.
Agreed, and I also hope Khan has learned that your heroes can disappoint, and that the power dynamic between promoter and wrestler always means that he can't truly be friends with everyone because almost all the wrestlers, in some way, are just kissing his ass for a better opportunity.
Hopefully he learns from all this to be more objective, stop playing favorites in the booking, and if needed, get a couple of the veterans to be the enforcers of the lockerroom in the case of fights or other serious stuff
YES. Yes they should.
Yeah he was right @@getuliovargas620, And WWE was right to pick Cena over Punk.
It’s a work brother. Long term story telling, Eddie Kingston warned us of Punk!
From what it sounds like now, he will be out for almost a year on suspension/injury, so Tony can just let his contract lapse as he does with everyone else or bring him back if nobody else he has heat with is around next year.
I think Vince retiring is still the biggest news. There is more traffic on wrestling sites and videos for this news because there is no other source to get info from. Every knew or could assume why Vince retired and there was not much to dive into but for this news there is no footage or any official word from the company. It is just reported via sources within the company through the dirt sheets, that is why there is more traffic on this news.
In short, this news is more interesting (because no one knows anything) but Vince news is much bigger.
True maybe that was kinda expected , Vince's allegations and retiring is something that was not out of the realm of possibility
This whole Punk situation just paints him as a self-entitled, whiny kid who has a far too blown up ego.
With 8 months of recovery time for CM Punk if Punk & the Elites can’t figure out how to make this into money, they don’t deserve to be in wrestling
Then a lot of people definitely gonna go to somewhere else. If this crap nonsense doesn't get solved
Honestly I think Punk did this on purpose to get out of AEW, he's good at burning bridges
Everybody wanted Punk to turn heel 😂😂 they just didn't inspect him to turn heel irl
I think that punk knowing he is hurt again, this might have also had him in a pissed off mood and the pot just boiled over and he let it fly. I know being a athlete myself being hurt and knowing you are probably gonna be out a long time will piss you off.
The comments were planned weeks in advance. So that theory really doesn’t work.
No one should get fired if possible. There is money to be made with all this.
100% punk should be fired. The press conference was premeditated, and he threatened legal action on the elite during the fight.
This moron tired to goat the EVPs of the company into a fight so he could sue. I hope punk never wrestles again, tbh. AEW don't need him.
For the initial question should fire punk, yes. Absolutely
As a Punk fan I am bummed out but Punk has shown his true colours. He seems to be a toxic narcassist. He has to suspended beyond his injury or just fired. Sigh.
Let’s not pretend the Elite are innocent here. Not only did they spread the rumors that led to this situation, they allowed themselves to get into a physical altercation as EXECUTIVE OFFICERS OF THE COMPANY. They should have asked Tony to handle it like professionals, not barge into his locker room like hotheaded teenage douches.
Bottom line: Both sides acted unprofessional, and should face consequences short of firing. Fines, suspensions, apologies, losing office titles l, the works. But AEW is much stronger with them than without them.
I don't buy it with Tony said they planned it, what's a way to avoid losing investors and morale? Pull the old "aye its fake!" card. Avoids the legality I'm sure that's heavily being pushed, keeps Punk with the company while diminishing the fire from burning more. CM Punk should absolutely be let go because, was it planned too burying Colt's mom and the company? Pulling this doesn't save face, just shows panic and incompetence.
I think it's the biggest story for people plugged into the product. But not the biggest in terms of widely available audience. AEW gets a very vocal and dedicated crowd, so people will be reactive to this story, but the WSJ is not covering Punk vs the Elite.
I also think something to note is just the landscape and culture of wrestling has changed so much since this all started. Punk dropped the pipe bomb saying everything that we as internet wrestling fans felt and had been sick and then he left right at the time that triple h was starting to book NXT and that grew and grew and then AEW started and between those two entities we were getting what we had been denied from at least main roster WWE then punk came back and it was a celebration of vindication of we were right to want this style and type of wrestling now Vince is gone and triple h has taken over we won essentially so where does that leave punk? He was the avatar for our disappointment and range against Vince who's now gone so punk doesn't really stand for us anymore and instead he comes across like the New York Yankees to quote his promo against John Cena. Punk seems to be the entitled elitist who only cares about himself because it wasn't that he was saying that hangman jeopardized the first million dollar gate he said he jeopardized what I did the first million dollar gate that I brought and I think that's the change right there it went from being about us and being to being about me. Which shouldn't be a surprise mean go all the way back to the pipe bomb it was I wasn't on the program I wasn't on this I wasn't on that and I should be and we agreed he should have been but now it's I'm not getting my way when I'm already at the top I'm already being featured I'm already champion it rings a bit different
I find it funny that Punk was talking about Hangman going in to business for himself ( and I don,t think his promo was that anyway) but that scrum was all about Punk himself, Everything about it was someone going in to business for themselves.
I was one of those who was out of wrestling for nearly 20 years. Never watch WWE. I watched WCW to the end and AEW brought me back. I have no connection to Punk at all so would rather see him go.
Luke your take on your CM PUNK shirt is exactly how I feel too. Going through my drawer the other day and came across my cm punk shirt and said yeah right....I cried when he returned too. This wasn't how it was supposed to go at all.
CM Punk is such a fascinating topic. I wasn't watching WWE at the time he was there so I wasn't connected to him. I found it annoying he wouldn't fight JDF in MMA because JDF "just wanted clout" but would lose to everyone else. I was in the camp of not liking the "cm punk return confirmed" gag. BUT I did find it cool that he came to aew, what it meant to his fans. I watched the first couple of weeks and ppvs he was on. And thought "he ain't so bad." Now I'm just like eh...
Punk was signed to the UFC. JDF wasn’t and never really had the chance of being signed to them.
JDF was chasing clout. Not because he thought he couldn’t beat him or anything. But he knew there was no chance that the UFC would ever sign him or that any other promotion would be willing to pay Punk what UFC did.
This is simple - if Punk (or the Elite) is willing to be professional and turn this into an angle and make a lot of money for everyone as a result of this, he stays. If he (or the Elite) doesn’t, Tony should fire him (or them).
No one asked him about cabana. He saw a reporter, and that set him off. Tc sitting next to him was even more cringe worthy. Aew start fresh without punk. Make a new star of the great talent you have. Mjf should be your top guy.
And Punk also apologized to Nick for being snippy, because he is old, tired, hurt.....not because Nick knew Cabana.
This is a work if you ask me. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that CM Punk was injured during the match and then suspended? I think it’s better publicity. Just look at the ratings for Dynamite after his first injury and his second. It’s been said to death in the wrestling business but controversies create cash.
It has to be the biggest. I like the daily WT News videos...but I've never watched a single podcast episode, yet here I am.
I don't understand why its a question. Is this the only business that getting fired is not a good thing? This is real life and a business. If this was wrestletalk and Lets say Adam/Laurie were punk and they treated Luke and Oli the same and this all unfolded like that? would you still say we don't want that Adam we want the Adam before and he keeps his Job? Or is Adam/Laurie insta fired without a second thought?
Props to Matt and Edge being able to remain professional and work together. The only issue was WWE being petty and punishing Matt by squashing him at Summerslam for mentioning ROH on Raw and for tempting to sign with them before coming back.
Boy has this aged well.
You know what it is for me?, ya remember Christian’s initial heel promo? When he was talking about wanting this for the check and not to put guys over. I feel that either Phil is like that or his peers view him as that.
As a Dad I am disappointed as well but At least we got some good matches out of it. I selfishly want CM Punk to still be in the game and the game to come out. WWF no mercy was a great game and to have this AEW one come out would be graat.
If that T-Rex didn’t fight that Triceratops, we’d have a different AEW locker room atmosphere today.
Looking at everything, I dont think we will get the CM punk chants. I truly think this has shined a light on how horrible CM punk is as a person. As a performer? Top notch! What wrestlers aspire to be. As a person his legacy is done. Not ruined but just wont have the hype as it use to.
His anticipation before AEW was because of how WWE mistreated him, he will now be known for how HE mistreated AEW.
AEW should move on from Punk, establish there own stars and build there product around AEW wrestlers, not have a wrestler dictate how to you build your company.
It still feels like there has been underhanded politics backstage which has what has got us to this point. Cody has more or less confirmed this.
That happens in every major business. It’s unavoidable.
Anytime you have a ladder to climb there’s going to be people that will do whatever it takes to get to the top of it.
Been like that basically forever.
@@ronnie3044 But it's not televised and aired the way it is in wrestling.
@@madebyjonny7637 Most of this stuff happening in wrestling isnt aired on TV. We learn about it through dirt sheets and news outlets.
Nothing about the Cody situation was ever aired on TV. Nothing about the AEW brawl was aired on TV,
From what I hear from other podcast that Megan came in with the elite opening the door not kicking it and that Megan try to protect cm punk dog after punk throws the first punch and getting the chair throw at .. But that is just what I heard from her story. Plus if that is true that elite kick the door down why would they bring the 2nd important person under tony khan to come with them to talk to cm punk.
I honestly think ultimately it all comes down to Colt Cabana, living in CM Punk's head rent free. It doesn't matter how much Punk says he doesn't care about it, c'mon, you can feel the hatred in his words at the scrum, how he even brought Cabana's mother into it, those are not the words or the body language of somebody who is over it. I think what ignited Punk's very short fuse was not the content of the promo, I'll say not even the fact that Hangman was unprofessional and over the line in shooting at Punk, I honestly think it was because Punk knew it all stemmed from support to Colt Cabana from Hangman, even if just implied.
Think about Dynamite just days before, Punk *snapped* the moment he heard some fans chanting for Colt and he IMMEDIATELY went after them. I think Punk used the unprofessionalism excuse to go off at everybody and feeling justified, I'd argue it's probably what he convinced himself of being pissed off about other than what he wants people to believe, because he hates that the Cabana situation has still so much power and influence over him. It's not just the past but the fact that people blamed him for Colt's contract situation. I'd argue maybe Punk really had nothing to do with it and came in with the intention of stay as far from Colt as he could, and probably viceversa.
But both Colt and his friends backstage might have thought Punk was behind Tony's choice to not renew Colt's contract and that's what prompt Hangman to cross the line and shoot about it, even if subtly. And Punk, knowing the rumor was out of him having to do with it, was even more enraged by it and went full "worst Punk", angry, vengeful, spiteful, paranoid, arrogant. But SRS and others said that the Elite never spoke to them about it and many people said it was just speculation the idea that Punk was behind, but let's be honest, that's an easy idea to get if you know their history.
That's why I think *no one* is the good guy in this situation. Punk still probably always held this grudge against Colt in a very childish, immature way, the kind where people just can't think straight when that one person is involved, while Hangman and the others probably assumed Punk was behind Colt's possible firing without real proof, Hangman probably shot without giving too much thought about it, Punk just assumed he and the Elite had to be the ones preading the rumor and went off on them and ultimately everybody played macho with the big confrontation backstage. Even in a scenario like this, everybody messed up.
Everything you're saying is true. The only thing missing is why he acted out at the media scrum. Punk knew that they would never give up sources, and even called out Alvarez by name on it because Punk knows Alvarez and Meltzer are the feed line directly to The Elite when it comes to news. Plus, the media guys never bothered to ask Punk his side! They just rolled the story, it gained steam, other outlets ran it without asking Punk. His intention at the scrum was to make it aware to the reporters and outlets that he never wants to speak about Colt ever again, and here are the facts of the contract change. And even Tony backed up Punk at that part of the outburst. Tony agreed that he should've spoken up about it the first time.
All parties involved are wrong. I just wanna know how the locker room fight unfolded second by second.
dude second punk signed to aew i said thats colt fired soon, it happened i really wouldnt be suprised if he was the reason personally! i also said give 2 years and he will quit, hes a year early lol just wish i had put money on it with my mate lol
One of many really insightful comments on here.
I have the exact same thing, I keep seeing the 2 CM Punk shirts I bought a year ago in my closet and I can’t bare to even unfold them. Genuinely considered throwing them out.
I have one I bought and one I got in a crate. They're going on eBay.
I feel like I'm in the minority that don't see this as something THAT serious, was it unprofessional of Punk to do a public burial, 100% but it's not like this is something new, a fallout backstage, ok, so... I like Punk and the Elite, I just don't see any reason as to why this hurts the company in the long term, it's still a business, a business where turnover rate is fairly high, wrestlers come and go or maybe I've just come to terms years and years ago that Punk will be Punk so this wasn't really something that took me by surprise 🤷🏾♂️.
I thought I was the only one, I really didn’t think it was that deep. Maybe a bad look for the Elite as EVPs but not permanently damaging, and as a Punk fan you know how it goes
We're not talking enough about Tony Khan here and how badly he's managed things. He's one of the main culpables.
Yes.
Nevermind, we are back to bias side vs side mentality.
Sad to see guys.
"Crisps on toast, no one sounds good in this story". The most British thing I've ever heard before, and I've been subscribed for like....3 or 4 years now
CM Punk didn’t attack Khan personally, but he did by proxy which is still bad, if Tony recognizes it. Yes, I’m sure friends of the “Elite” were taken aback, but Danielson or Sting or Darby Allin?
The executive team of what? The “EVPs”? Or does AEW have an actual board of directors we don’t know about?
Why would the production team be mad at Punk? He hasn’t used the amount of the 7 dirty words or other “indecent” actions others have.