I’d like to see you duplicate both the 68 and 75 grain frontier ammo. My rifle loves it. I’d also be curious to see you take your best sd loads and try a barrel tuner. I’m pretty curious about how well they can work
They had problems because the powder manufacturer wasn't allowing the powder to dry before shipping because the military was wanting it too fast. It was designed for Afghanistan, I was issued it and can tell you it did stabilize. I didn't in USAF guys with A1 uppers and SOCOM issued slower twist barrels that were old stock after SOCOM crossleveled a ton of guys in 2009 - 2010. It was explained to me by the L3 rep who was our sme on the ground at Bagram. We also had problems with the SR25 and Mk4 scopes around the same time because SOCOM swelled to almost 3x it's normal size in 9 months. I have a couple mags that were tucked into my tough box by my team after I was wounded if you want a few rounds to test.
@@DW-35Man what are you talking about! I wish we could go back to the beginning of 2017!!!! Those were the days my friend, those were the day's. I'm glad I am stocked up on all my ammo and even got stocked on all my Reloading supplies, but my little family shoots a bunch. It's just my Daughter, Girlfriend and myself and my Girlfriend will pick up ammo if she sees a good deal, so I am very VERY Blessed. I haven't bought ammo since February and we haven't slowed down on shooting. I will however slow down a bit before I go out and buy ammo at the retarded ass prices now or be contributing to this B.S "ammo shortage". Have a wonderful day, stay safe! 🤙🏼
I got super lucky and got 500 rounds of this stuff for 350$ considering everything with the Rona and libtards I thought it wasn’t bad. Hell stimulus paid for it anyway 😂
Johnny, if you look at Accurate's load data for 5.56mm and AA 2520 they show a max load of 25.5 grains for the 77 grain SMK. Right where you expect Black Hills charges would be if they used a non-canister grade of AA2520.....
You really make me want to start reloading! I was collecting brass for so long until I just had far too much of it, hoping one day I would finally get into reloading. Every time I think I'm ready to start the process I get to reading more and more information I get completely overwhelmed.
Don’t be be overwhelmed. You will learn as you go. I personally welcome you to the brotherhood. As normal start at minimum load data and experiment slowly and safely. I will never forget the thrill and terror of shooting my first hand made 9mm round…..the flinch was legendary😂
Yeah man, just take it one step at a time. I had my issues getting overwhelmed and second guessing myself but i just practiced doing one thing at a time over and over until I knew what I was doing. Just getting one thing at a time helps build confidence in what pieces of info you have and then you start putting them together. Once you get good at putting them together you can start experimenting and it snowballs from there. It's really satisfying to build up your own rounds and it's kind of hard to go back, especially with how much money you save.
Yea it is to much to bother with just let me take that brass off your hands and there's nothing to get overwhelmed about 😁but all BS aside it's not bad just start out prepping the brass when you're not busy one day you clean them another day deprime & resize and if you want trim them all to size just a little work each time nothing to get overwhelmed with one step at a time
@@pink_love_cat4928 Like the others have posted, it's not a super complicated process...just start with basic reloading processes until you have a good idea of what you're doing and then start working on more advanced processes. It's a fun and rewarding hobby and you will get better with experience.
I’ve watched a lot of your videos and I have picked up so much valuable powder selection and “burn rate theory” throughout. Videos like this, the 300 blackout series, and loading for pistols/SBRs. Hugely helpful for the new loader!
This should be one of your best Videos. I know the Army Marksmanship Unit uses Vitavory N-133, N-135, N-140 for their match rounds that they Handload at Quantico. They also used the Hornady 75 gr as well. Good Luck Brother. Dave.
I agree. This is what I'm in the middle of in my reloading currently. I'm up to 24.3 grains of CFE223 and the non-cannelure 77SMKs. So far the accuracy is hovering around an inch for five shots. I may up them a few tenths but not until I run them through my chronograph. I have a batch of Varget loaded as well but have had a fit trying to find an opportunity to hit the range and test the Varget loads.
Thor's Axe777 Quantico is a US MARINE CORPS base. I was stationed there, I also shot on the base rifle team. If memory serves me correctly the Marine Corps Rifle team received Black Hills ammo and broke the rounds down weighed everything individual and reassembled into matching lots. Bullet weight, charge weight, case weight. At least that's what they did in 99-02. Capitol letters--not yellin just tellin haha Hoorah
N-135 is a superb powder for .224-caliber and .308-caliber slugs in a variety of weights..... it is slightly more-expensive than the competition, but totally worth it IMHO....
I saw something on maybe the History Channel, years ago back when they did actual history shows, and they were showing a marksmanship team (don't remember what they were officially called) attached to either the Army or the Marines. They may have been your boys! They would sort the bullets according to variations in weight from the manufacturing process and then stick them all together so that each box contained projectiles that had the *exact* same weight. (They also made/customized their own barrels in addition to ammunition if I recall correctly.) Crazy. I hope to be a good enough shot one day where I can notice a .1 gram difference in weight of a ~168 grain bullet shot at a target 500 yards away. Shit, except under very particular circumstances I probably can't tell a difference accuracy-wise between a 62 grain and a 75 grain .223. The variations in my own groups are greater than the difference in point of impact at the close ranges I shoot at. Ah well. Some day. Maybe. Hopefully.
Just found your channel, and plowing through your Mk 262 series. A few years ago I had started working up a 262 load, and though I didn't finish the full workup I had gotten to 23.9gr of Accurate 2460, which had the velocity I needed (2750) and good accuracy out of my SPR build (~0.6" group @ 100). One of these days real soon, I'm gonna start working my load up again.
I think you're right in the assumption that the Black Hills is using the Nosler 77gr. I have both Nosler and SMK 77gr bullets and I just went and weighed and measured. The Noslers are exactly like your Black Hills: 0.996" and all weighed 76.9-77.0 The SMK 77s measured 1.010 to 1.015 and they all weighed 77.0 to 77.2 Ive had good MK262 cloning results with TAC, BL-C2, IMR 8208 and believe it or not H335...and I wouldn't worry about blowing your face off. Most all blow ups are due to obstructions. Getting 2750FPS out of a 18-20" barrel isn't too hard I personally like using hornadys 75gr bthp or Noslers 77 bthp over the SMK because of expense. The 75gr Hornady is a superb bullet and you can get them for a good price. I get outstanding accuracy with it using IMR 8208
Is there a preferred source to get a bargain on them? I hate to work up a load just in time to run out of components for a year. Rather buy 1k or so and be good for a while.
@@jimarmbrester1721 at around 29:00 I’m wondering why he didn’t pick H335 as one of the powders to evaluate. The data in his chart looks like a no brainer. Relatively close powder charge and velocity with 96% fill capacity versus the others he picked which were over. Back to watching the rest of it (several years later! Lol)
Probably someone already said it but western powders actually has load data for 77 match king at 5.56 pressures. 2520 is the highest velocity and tac is second. Really close to what you measured. I used their data to make imi ss109 with 2460. It was really accurate for me.
Excited about this series as I'm just about done with my SPR build with an 18" BA Performance Series MK12 barrel, 1/7 twist rate. Hoping its going to spin the 77 grain OTM for lights out! One thing I'm concerned about is that I'm hoping I didn't make a mistake by going with the CMV QPQ as opposed to the stainless! I've heard they are great barrels but haven't seen the proof in the pudding yet. I'm really liking that White Oak barrel you picked up, that was in my top 3 list when I ended up going with this one.
Reel Conquest how are you liking the BA barrel? I have the 1:8 SS and just picked up a WOA 1:7 to compare. So far they are about on par with each other. WOA seems slightly more consistent, but overall average of all kinds of loads with both is right under 1 MOA.
I get 2760 with 8208 out of a 18" WOA barrel. 23.6 gr is my sweet spot somewhere around 2.255 oal. Shoots between .3-.6 at 200 with cheap hornady 75 gr bullets.
Glad you did this exercise. I went through the same thing and have XXXX's of home brew MK262 Mod 1s. The pseudo-cannelure is Sierra. Nosler cannelure is real cannelure. Dr. Corbin, who makes the cannelure tools says it is not a good cannelure unless the cutter wheel rim is impressed into the brass forming circular lines above and below the teeth. Rumor was Sierra did not want to risk ruining the high quality of their OTM, by wrecking it with a deep cannelure, which infuriated the Army. I am pretty sure that the primer is CCI #41s which are specified in other places by the military to minimize slam fires in the ARs. My mystery powder is IMR 8208 XBR.
Thank you for doing this! Looking forward to comparing your results with mine. I never thought of using Leverevolution...very interesting. I'll be glued to the JRB channel more than ever now.
Man Johnny, I love your channel. The way you produce your videos, detail, and how you interact with audience is just perfect. When I can't get to my reloading bench your channel gives me my fix, and makes me happy!! Good stuff brother, keep it up!! Finally got my AR, so having fun with the research to tool up for it. Lot of great info from you of course. Happy New Year to you from Texas!
I load SMK 77’s over 24.5 grains of RE-15 in Winchester Brass primed with Winchester Primers. I shoot it in US Service Rifle Competition from a match conditioned AR-15 A2, which has a 1/7 twist match grade barrel. I get an average muzzle velocity of 2750 fps. Groups are sub MOA at 100 yards, prone and iron sights. I use the load for 100, 200, and 300 yard events. The loading helped me to finish my quest for Distinguished Rifleman Badge.
Former Service rifle match competitor here … yours was our magic load for our slow fire 600 yard line with 80gr Sierra’s in the mid to late 90’s before the 77 came out.
So if you haven’t figured it out yet, the primers are LC factory primers. I just pulled 15 today from 2018 LC 55 gr 5.556 brass packaged in a America eagle box and they are identical to the ones you pulled from your black hill ammo
Great Video Johnny. I have been loading Sierra 77gr HPBT with great success ahead of 24.0gr Varget and 22.7gr TAC. The velocities 2726FPS and 2725FPS. The accuracy was MOA with me shooting which probably put in the most amount of variation. 24.8gr of TAC produced 2908FPS but the groups opened up. These loads were worked up using a Windam 1/7 chrome barrel but WOA 20" produces MOA or subMOA groupls depending on the shooter. As economical 77gr load, I am going to try the Nosler 77gr and TAC combination in the near future. WOA barrels rule!
Ive had very good luck with TAC, @25.5 grains, a 75 grain hornady bthp in hornady Frontier cases, OAL = 2.26. Muzzle velocity out of my 20inch 5.56 rifle was just over 2800fps. Primers used were tula small rifle magnum and winchester WSR. No crazy pressure signs. Primers seemed to flatten just a bit...on some of the rounds...I was shooting on a day that the temp was around 36-40 degrees @ about 2000ft elevation. Needless to say i was shocked because with all that said...the grouping was very good and consistent over 10 rounds. I would not rule out TAC as being the powder that they used.
I know this is an old video but 6:20 is the exact reason I’m here. Was always looking for a reason to start reloading, 500rnds of heavy 223 was an easy choice. Thanks for the information!
15:41 My LOT # of Sierra 77 gr are about 0.980" OAL so it seems like sierra has massive lot to lot consistency issues. Edit: So I've started working up a load with these and dug into my stash. 1st thing I noticed is that there are 2 separate part numbers for "the same" bullet. 9377G and 9378 both have the same title. The 9377G are OAL 0.980" BTO 0.590". The 9378 are OAL 1.005" BTO 0.612". I just called sierra, they had no clue what was up with the 9378 variant. The cannelures look different and don't line up. Sierra told me that the specs for both part numbers are perfectly the same in every way. Spec OAL is 0.983" FYI. So, apparently there are multiple versions of the exact same thing. If you believe the spec sheet, this shouldn't matter. But, the reality is that it matters a lot based on what you showed and what I found. I know you're gone and we miss you, but I hope this helps someone.
It has been mentioned here and everywhere, MANY times, how match type bullets have an irregular tip. We all know the bullet base is much more important than the tip, but it would be interesting to test what, if any, accuracy difference "wonky tips" make. How about making up a jig to trim the tips perfectly straight and square, and test them against irregular tips??
Looks like W760. I would like to see that with 25.6 charge. Also try the WSR primer. Be interested to see how close this gets to the BH ammo. Keep up the videos. Awesome channel. Thank you for what you do!
Yes! I love these duplication videos, especially with high quality loads. I'd be curious to see if you can replicate the new 62/64gr Fed/Winchester FBI barrier blind loads! The 64 Nosler BSB is widely available, and I think RMRbullets has the 62gr as a component, though you have to read between the lines in the description.
Did you ever contact Black Hills and ask them if they used Nosler bullets instead of SMK??? Interested in what their response is. Since I’m sure they never thought about someone taking these bullets apart and actually seeing bullet is actually being used
You should be including Brass cost in your price estimates, the Marine Corp Service rifle/High-power Competitors often use the 262mod1 and the pressure reached by it makes the brass pretty unusable. They literally couldn't give their brass away at the Western Creedmore Cup matches in Phoenix, AZ or at Camp Perry the one time I made it up there as guys didn't want to risk only getting a load or two more out of them before separation issues start happening. (Flattened primers were common to see during the match from their brass on "mild" mid Oct Phoenix temps of 80-90F...) I used CFE233 to good results with all my handholds for competition in 69 and 77's and didn't have the pressure issues, but I never chased the 262mod1 velocities. Good luck and careful with your brass and face....
Great look at all the components, very in depth with all the weights and measurements. At least they shoot awesome for the price. This will be a really interesting series that I will pay attention to. Currently I shoot hornady 75s with Varget out of 223 brass at 2650 FPS 18" barrel. No pressure, I wonder if I could push it to those speeds. What do the primers look like from the black hills fired ammunition? Flattened at all?
West Desert Shooter, what charge weight of Varget is getting you 2650 fps with your 18" barrel? Varget shines when you get into the compressed loads. I have gone as high as 25.5 grains and still never saw any pressure indicators.
ive shot 24 over my chrono, however i have shot 24.5 and it grouped great, but i didnt get any chrono data on the 5 i shot. i can feel it crunch just a bit when they seat in there.
@West Desert Shooter and @Johnny's Reloading Bench I have shot 24-24.5 grains of Ramshot TAC with 75 grain Hornady hpbt bullets and federal match primers. Out of my 18" WOA SPR barrel I get 2750 fps. Might want to add that to your ball powder list.
I just got 5k CCI 41 primers and they look identical to the ones you pulled they even have the orange priming compound.... This is what made me decide to get a new barrel... My PSA upper has a 16 inch FN barrel in it but it won't group better than about 1.5 inches... I can't wait for my 18 inch WOA SPR barrel to come in they have about a 16 week backorder list...
Quite a challenge. According to the Black Hills king pin, the powder is a proprietary blend that’s been fine tuned several times up to Mod-1. Velocity is just one variable.
Look at Rimshot TAC and IMR 8208XBR. Those have worked best for me. Got pretty close to Mk262 velocity using TAC but slightly better accuracy out of XBR.
Ramshot makes powder for the military here in Belgium. They use 25.5grains Wildboar for the NATO loads. drive.google.com/file/d/0B6dGFV9NPEH6cjltUUdGZFNwODA/view?usp=sharing
I'm getting really good results using 23.2 grains of IMR 8208 XBR under Hornady 73 grain ELD-Ms in LC 5.56 cases. I'm averaging 2720 out of an 18" barrel
The cantalore difference would concern me more than the tip of the bullet, I think to get that compared accuracy that you're looking for would be the base to ojive measurement.
I've tried TAC (inconsistent accuracy), RL15 (good accuracy, poor temp stability), and H322. H322 was the winner, not as fast, but close. Seems counterintuitive, but give it a shot. 21.6-21.8 gr.
With Hornady Frontier Ammunition loading theirs with 75gr BTHP Match 5.56 at 9.99 a box of 20, i think they have a good option for those looking for similar performance from this caliber off the shelf.
You sure like to have lots of projects going on at the same time. Do you have any plans to do 277 wolverine down the road? I decided to try and put an ar upper together for the first time and am going to try and work up some of my own loads for it. keep up the good work.
I am 10 minutes into this clip. I am wondering if they switched from Rl15 to IMR4064 like I have heard that Federal did with the GMM 175SMK in the 308 for the same reason? I will continue watching & see what you figure out.
Johnny, Iv been trying the 77gr TMK, LC brass, CCI 400 and Hodgdon CFE 223. I also have a 500ct box of the 77gr HPBT MK with cannelure. These MK's are my next trials. thanks for the info.
MK 262 Mod 0 First edition of MK 262 Nosler could not keep up demand of 77 and contract went to Sierra as Mod 1 TAC was the powder for Black Hill IMR 8208 was the powder used by Australia Defense Force MK 262 Mod 1
If there's a episode 2 coming up today i think i'll have to call in sick for unplanned time off work. These videos is getting expensive even for us viewers..
I don't know about your experience, Johnny but my leftover Black Hills brass was complete junk! I lost a significant amount of neck tension and the primer pockets swelled up beyond serviceability. Alliant has Power Pro 2000MR, which was formulated for heavier bullets, without putting pressures at dangerous levels.
It's so slow I don't think we could get enough powder in the cartridge for good velocities. I'll probably be getting that powder soon for 6.5 Creedmoor, so maybe I'll do a test just for the heck of it. Trying some totally too-slow powders just to see what happens! Would be a fun video.
I'm pretty sure Black Hills uses a General Dymanics powder produced at St Marks for the MK 262. It goes by the designation of SMP-842. Many people claim it has similar characteristics as CFE223, but Hodgdon does not advocate such claims.
How easy would it be to make a "better" cartridge than these? Berger 80 grain VLD have a bc of .445, There is a 70 grain Nosler "RDF" bullet with a bc of .416 (they are fairly inexpensive in comparison too), and there is a 80 grain SMK HPBT with a bc of .420. If they are not seating them to mag length, I would assume you could go with a heavier, higher bc bullet and get better long range ballistics, even if you had to drop 100 fps, or more. Not to mention, starting with premium brass and match primers.
I'm curious ! Why did you try to duplicate this ammo using an 18" barrel when Black Hills specifically said they used a 20" test barrel? Please show 20" test results
In 2022 prices are insane its just about cheaper to buy factory ammo which is bs if you add in your time to reload your almost better off to just purchase factory ammo and as hard as it is to get components I hope prices will go back down to what they should/use to be
Oh and per spec sheet, they used no 41 primers, on the mod 0, i just used standard cci small rifle and didnt notice a difference in standard small rifle vs no. 41
I'm not 100% sure maybe just barracks lawyers but I have always been told that CCI #41 primers is the only one that the military (US at least) uses. Because they don't slam fire in full autos.?.?.?
Johnny my future wife knows her place when it come to my passion on guns, ammo, reloading, and events like gun shows etc. Besides she supports it as she is getting into it herself....... Always asking questions on the subject.
Hey Johnny, great series. I would really like to see the reloading setup you referenced in the video, dang Google/UA-cam policies! I thought I would find it on Patreon with this video but didn't find it there. Do you have it anywhere online?
O put my hands on some MK boxes. they don't group so well in my AR-55. So here is my question. did you try to low the original charge looking for accuracy? I will try that, but I don't have a 22 collet for my bullet puller die. you have some fans down the ecuator!!!
Mr I hate ball powders and I can't shoot good groups with Nosler bullets what happened? LOL
Simple! He can only shoot Noslers when he thinks they are Sierras
HAHAHAHA!
Anybody here in 2024 just re watching a great vdeo series? I still love this guy.
What happened to him? I loved his videos
Yup….rewatching this all over again
@@michaelturner2691got bored. Wanted to do something else. He made videos for like 8 years, can’t blame him
@sfogold
Lost the passion for making videos
UA-cam rules
I'm sure cost he didn't monetize his stuff besides a few members he got nothing
As a reloader especially for 223's the research you do on your loads and components is second to none. Love watching.
I’d like to see you duplicate both the 68 and 75 grain frontier ammo. My rifle loves it. I’d also be curious to see you take your best sd loads and try a barrel tuner. I’m pretty curious about how well they can work
They had problems because the powder manufacturer wasn't allowing the powder to dry before shipping because the military was wanting it too fast. It was designed for Afghanistan, I was issued it and can tell you it did stabilize. I didn't in USAF guys with A1 uppers and SOCOM issued slower twist barrels that were old stock after SOCOM crossleveled a ton of guys in 2009 - 2010. It was explained to me by the L3 rep who was our sme on the ground at Bagram. We also had problems with the SR25 and Mk4 scopes around the same time because SOCOM swelled to almost 3x it's normal size in 9 months. I have a couple mags that were tucked into my tough box by my team after I was wounded if you want a few rounds to test.
I would love a mk2 to dissect
The mod 2 is ready to dissect and duplicate
Me, listening to you quote prices in 2021: 😥
@@ritchieswoodshop6539 what are you talking about
Us all wishing we could go back to 2021, in 2023 😅
@@DW-35Man what are you talking about! I wish we could go back to the beginning of 2017!!!! Those were the days my friend, those were the day's.
I'm glad I am stocked up on all my ammo and even got stocked on all my Reloading supplies, but my little family shoots a bunch. It's just my Daughter, Girlfriend and myself and my Girlfriend will pick up ammo if she sees a good deal, so I am very VERY Blessed.
I haven't bought ammo since February and we haven't slowed down on shooting. I will however slow down a bit before I go out and buy ammo at the retarded ass prices now or be contributing to this B.S "ammo shortage".
Have a wonderful day, stay safe! 🤙🏼
The Black Hills 77 gr. OTM is my favorite 5.56 ammo. .5 MOA out of my AR. Looking forward to this series!
I got super lucky and got 500 rounds of this stuff for 350$ considering everything with the Rona and libtards I thought it wasn’t bad. Hell stimulus paid for it anyway 😂
@John Beige I’ve gotten very similar outcomes with a 1:7 twist rate out of a 16inch barrel
Johnny, if you look at Accurate's load data for 5.56mm and AA 2520 they show a max load of 25.5 grains for the 77 grain SMK. Right where you expect Black Hills charges would be if they used a non-canister grade of AA2520.....
You really make me want to start reloading! I was collecting brass for so long until I just had far too much of it, hoping one day I would finally get into reloading. Every time I think I'm ready to start the process I get to reading more and more information I get completely overwhelmed.
Don’t be be overwhelmed. You will learn as you go. I personally welcome you to the brotherhood. As normal start at minimum load data and experiment slowly and safely. I will never forget the thrill and terror of shooting my first hand made 9mm round…..the flinch was legendary😂
Yeah man, just take it one step at a time. I had my issues getting overwhelmed and second guessing myself but i just practiced doing one thing at a time over and over until I knew what I was doing. Just getting one thing at a time helps build confidence in what pieces of info you have and then you start putting them together. Once you get good at putting them together you can start experimenting and it snowballs from there. It's really satisfying to build up your own rounds and it's kind of hard to go back, especially with how much money you save.
Yea it is to much to bother with just let me take that brass off your hands and there's nothing to get overwhelmed about 😁but all BS aside it's not bad just start out prepping the brass when you're not busy one day you clean them another day deprime & resize and if you want trim them all to size just a little work each time nothing to get overwhelmed with one step at a time
@@pink_love_cat4928 Like the others have posted, it's not a super complicated process...just start with basic reloading processes until you have a good idea of what you're doing and then start working on more advanced processes. It's a fun and rewarding hobby and you will get better with experience.
Man I love your ur videos! I've never thought about reloading until I watched your videos. The detail you go into is awesome! Keep it up!
It would be cool if while duplicating the 262 that you use 50% nosler bullets, and 50% sierra just to see who's king
This man is a genius.... ***takes notes on how to justify things to wife***
Plot twist: he isn’t married.
I’ve watched a lot of your videos and I have picked up so much valuable powder selection and “burn rate theory” throughout. Videos like this, the 300 blackout series, and loading for pistols/SBRs. Hugely helpful for the new loader!
So much value in these videos. There is a ton more to reloading than I ever realized. Really awesome to have access to this information.
I have never seen an ammunition analysis with this kind of detail. Very thorough!
Thank you for explaining burn rate!
No problem. Hope that part made sense.
If you reload you ( must ) completely understand burning rates !
This should be one of your best Videos. I know the Army Marksmanship Unit uses Vitavory N-133, N-135, N-140 for their match rounds that they Handload at Quantico. They also used the Hornady 75 gr as well. Good Luck Brother. Dave.
I agree. This is what I'm in the middle of in my reloading currently. I'm up to 24.3 grains of CFE223 and the non-cannelure 77SMKs. So far the accuracy is hovering around an inch for five shots. I may up them a few tenths but not until I run them through my chronograph. I have a batch of Varget loaded as well but have had a fit trying to find an opportunity to hit the range and test the Varget loads.
Thor's Axe777 Quantico is a US MARINE CORPS base. I was stationed there, I also shot on the base rifle team. If memory serves me correctly the Marine Corps Rifle team received Black Hills ammo and broke the rounds down weighed everything individual and reassembled into matching lots. Bullet weight, charge weight, case weight. At least that's what they did in 99-02. Capitol letters--not yellin just tellin haha Hoorah
N-135 is a superb powder for .224-caliber and .308-caliber slugs in a variety of weights..... it is slightly more-expensive than the competition, but totally worth it IMHO....
I saw something on maybe the History Channel, years ago back when they did actual history shows, and they were showing a marksmanship team (don't remember what they were officially called) attached to either the Army or the Marines. They may have been your boys! They would sort the bullets according to variations in weight from the manufacturing process and then stick them all together so that each box contained projectiles that had the *exact* same weight. (They also made/customized their own barrels in addition to ammunition if I recall correctly.)
Crazy. I hope to be a good enough shot one day where I can notice a .1 gram difference in weight of a ~168 grain bullet shot at a target 500 yards away. Shit, except under very particular circumstances I probably can't tell a difference accuracy-wise between a 62 grain and a 75 grain .223. The variations in my own groups are greater than the difference in point of impact at the close ranges I shoot at.
Ah well. Some day. Maybe. Hopefully.
Just awesome, you can not make these videos too long. This is excellent material.
The primers you show from Black Hills looks like Remington No. 7 1/2 Bench Rest Primers. They got the same color primers.
Just found your channel, and plowing through your Mk 262 series. A few years ago I had started working up a 262 load, and though I didn't finish the full workup I had gotten to 23.9gr of Accurate 2460, which had the velocity I needed (2750) and good accuracy out of my SPR build (~0.6" group @ 100). One of these days real soon, I'm gonna start working my load up again.
I think you're right in the assumption that the Black Hills is using the Nosler 77gr. I have both Nosler and SMK 77gr bullets and I just went and weighed and measured. The Noslers are exactly like your Black Hills: 0.996" and all weighed 76.9-77.0
The SMK 77s measured 1.010 to 1.015 and they all weighed 77.0 to 77.2
Ive had good MK262 cloning results with TAC, BL-C2, IMR 8208 and believe it or not H335...and I wouldn't worry about blowing your face off. Most all blow ups are due to obstructions. Getting 2750FPS out of a 18-20" barrel isn't too hard
I personally like using hornadys 75gr bthp or Noslers 77 bthp over the SMK because of expense. The 75gr Hornady is a superb bullet and you can get them for a good price. I get outstanding accuracy with it using IMR 8208
Agreed about the Hornady. I have all three and choose the Hornady, it will shoot on par with the Nosler and SMK 77 gr projectiles.
Is there a preferred source to get a bargain on them? I hate to work up a load just in time to run out of components for a year. Rather buy 1k or so and be good for a while.
I strictly use TAC for my 5.56 rounds . I’ve had great luck with it for years .
I know this is very old, but what was the H335 recipe you had that worked well?
@@jimarmbrester1721 at around 29:00 I’m wondering why he didn’t pick H335 as one of the powders to evaluate. The data in his chart looks like a no brainer. Relatively close powder charge and velocity with 96% fill capacity versus the others he picked which were over. Back to watching the rest of it (several years later! Lol)
As soon as I heard $.03 per primer I had to look at the posting date.............then it made sense ! ;)
These are fun videos man, I am enjoying the heck out of them!! Thanks again
Stumbled onto your channel a few weeks ago, and WOW, what a wealth of info! Thanks! The detail you go into is Great! New sub here.
Probably someone already said it but western powders actually has load data for 77 match king at 5.56 pressures. 2520 is the highest velocity and tac is second. Really close to what you measured. I used their data to make imi ss109 with 2460. It was really accurate for me.
Excited about this series as I'm just about done with my SPR build with an 18" BA Performance Series MK12 barrel, 1/7 twist rate. Hoping its going to spin the 77 grain OTM for lights out! One thing I'm concerned about is that I'm hoping I didn't make a mistake by going with the CMV QPQ as opposed to the stainless!
I've heard they are great barrels but haven't seen the proof in the pudding yet. I'm really liking that White Oak barrel you picked up, that was in my top 3 list when I ended up going with this one.
Reel Conquest how are you liking the BA barrel? I have the 1:8 SS and just picked up a WOA 1:7 to compare. So far they are about on par with each other. WOA seems slightly more consistent, but overall average of all kinds of loads with both is right under 1 MOA.
This was the series that made me sub and start watching. Still my favorite series! What about doing a series to clone the M118LR?
I get 2760 with 8208 out of a 18" WOA barrel. 23.6 gr is my sweet spot somewhere around 2.255 oal. Shoots between .3-.6 at 200 with cheap hornady 75 gr bullets.
Glad you did this exercise. I went through the same thing and have XXXX's of home brew MK262 Mod 1s. The pseudo-cannelure is Sierra. Nosler cannelure is real cannelure. Dr. Corbin, who makes the cannelure tools says it is not a good cannelure unless the cutter wheel rim is impressed into the brass forming circular lines above and below the teeth. Rumor was Sierra did not want to risk ruining the high quality of their OTM, by wrecking it with a deep cannelure, which infuriated the Army. I am pretty sure that the primer is CCI #41s which are specified in other places by the military to minimize slam fires in the ARs. My mystery powder is IMR 8208 XBR.
Thank you for doing this! Looking forward to comparing your results with mine. I never thought of using Leverevolution...very interesting. I'll be glued to the JRB channel more than ever now.
This is where it all began for me, thank you.
Man Johnny, I love your channel. The way you produce your videos, detail, and how you interact with audience is just perfect. When I can't get to my reloading bench your channel gives me my fix, and makes me happy!! Good stuff brother, keep it up!! Finally got my AR, so having fun with the research to tool up for it. Lot of great info from you of course. Happy New Year to you from Texas!
Thanks for watching, brother! I really appreciate you guys. Never dreamed so many people would like to follow along with my reloading adventures.
Still the best series on UA-cam!
I load SMK 77’s over 24.5 grains of RE-15 in Winchester Brass primed with Winchester Primers. I shoot it in US Service Rifle Competition from a match conditioned AR-15 A2, which has a 1/7 twist match grade barrel. I get an average muzzle velocity of 2750 fps. Groups are sub MOA at 100 yards, prone and iron sights. I use the load for 100, 200, and 300 yard events. The loading helped me to finish my quest for Distinguished Rifleman Badge.
Former Service rifle match competitor here … yours was our magic load for our slow fire 600 yard line with 80gr Sierra’s in the mid to late 90’s before the 77 came out.
@22:25 did you let one rip brah?
So if you haven’t figured it out yet, the primers are LC factory primers. I just pulled 15 today from 2018 LC 55 gr 5.556 brass packaged in a America eagle box and they are identical to the ones you pulled from your black hill ammo
Thank you for going the extra mile. Great educational video's. I have learned alot from your videos. Keep up the excellent work.
Great Video Johnny. I have been loading Sierra 77gr HPBT with great success ahead of 24.0gr Varget and 22.7gr TAC.
The velocities 2726FPS and 2725FPS. The accuracy was MOA with me shooting which probably put in the most amount of
variation. 24.8gr of TAC produced 2908FPS but the groups opened up. These loads were worked up using a Windam 1/7
chrome barrel but WOA 20" produces MOA or subMOA groupls depending on the shooter. As economical 77gr load, I am
going to try the Nosler 77gr and TAC combination in the near future. WOA barrels rule!
How does the Federal .556 77 Grain FC262 compare to the Black Hills MK262?
Do they still make that load? 🤔
Those primers may be Remington 7 1/2 I tried to send pics to the Facebook page but don't know if I succeeded. Brass color cup, orange pyro, 3.5 gr
Thanks, Pat! I just looked at the pics on facebook and I think you're right! I will definitely pick up some 7 1/2's.
Johnny's Reloading Bench I've had great results with that primer and ball powders. I'm going to use it in my new Gren with CFE 223 and 2520
Agree!
Ive had very good luck with TAC, @25.5 grains, a 75 grain hornady bthp in hornady Frontier cases, OAL = 2.26. Muzzle velocity out of my 20inch 5.56 rifle was just over 2800fps. Primers used were tula small rifle magnum and winchester WSR. No crazy pressure signs. Primers seemed to flatten just a bit...on some of the rounds...I was shooting on a day that the temp was around 36-40 degrees @ about 2000ft elevation. Needless to say i was shocked because with all that said...the grouping was very good and consistent over 10 rounds. I would not rule out TAC as being the powder that they used.
I know this is an old video but 6:20 is the exact reason I’m here. Was always looking for a reason to start reloading, 500rnds of heavy 223 was an easy choice. Thanks for the information!
15:41 My LOT # of Sierra 77 gr are about 0.980" OAL so it seems like sierra has massive lot to lot consistency issues.
Edit: So I've started working up a load with these and dug into my stash. 1st thing I noticed is that there are 2 separate part numbers for "the same" bullet. 9377G and 9378 both have the same title. The 9377G are OAL 0.980" BTO 0.590". The 9378 are OAL 1.005" BTO 0.612". I just called sierra, they had no clue what was up with the 9378 variant. The cannelures look different and don't line up. Sierra told me that the specs for both part numbers are perfectly the same in every way. Spec OAL is 0.983" FYI. So, apparently there are multiple versions of the exact same thing. If you believe the spec sheet, this shouldn't matter. But, the reality is that it matters a lot based on what you showed and what I found. I know you're gone and we miss you, but I hope this helps someone.
It has been mentioned here and everywhere, MANY times, how match type bullets have an irregular tip. We all know the bullet base is much more important than the tip, but it would be interesting to test what, if any, accuracy difference "wonky tips" make.
How about making up a jig to trim the tips perfectly straight and square, and test them against irregular tips??
Looks like W760. I would like to see that with 25.6 charge. Also try the WSR primer. Be interested to see how close this gets to the BH ammo. Keep up the videos. Awesome channel. Thank you for what you do!
That’s is the best way I’ve ever heard burn rate explained. Nice
Dude, you need to add in the justifying purchases to your wife part to every video! I was laughing my ass off lol
Awesome video Johnny! I have really wanted to try to clone this round myself. Keep up the great work.
Yes! I love these duplication videos, especially with high quality loads. I'd be curious to see if you can replicate the new 62/64gr Fed/Winchester FBI barrier blind loads! The 64 Nosler BSB is widely available, and I think RMRbullets has the 62gr as a component, though you have to read between the lines in the description.
Big reddit post on JRB and I've been missing my favorite reloading pal. So im going to re-watch this series again.
Nice shooting. Looking forward to this series
Yet another great video for August! Nice work! Looking forward to this series!
Did you ever contact Black Hills and ask them if they used Nosler bullets instead of SMK??? Interested in what their response is. Since I’m sure they never thought about someone taking these bullets apart and actually seeing bullet is actually being used
You should be including Brass cost in your price estimates, the Marine Corp Service rifle/High-power Competitors often use the 262mod1 and the pressure reached by it makes the brass pretty unusable. They literally couldn't give their brass away at the Western Creedmore Cup matches in Phoenix, AZ or at Camp Perry the one time I made it up there as guys didn't want to risk only getting a load or two more out of them before separation issues start happening. (Flattened primers were common to see during the match from their brass on "mild" mid Oct Phoenix temps of 80-90F...)
I used CFE233 to good results with all my handholds for competition in 69 and 77's and didn't have the pressure issues, but I never chased the 262mod1 velocities. Good luck and careful with your brass and face....
Great look at all the components, very in depth with all the weights and measurements. At least they shoot awesome for the price. This will be a really interesting series that I will pay attention to. Currently I shoot hornady 75s with Varget out of 223 brass at 2650 FPS 18" barrel. No pressure, I wonder if I could push it to those speeds. What do the primers look like from the black hills fired ammunition? Flattened at all?
West Desert Shooter, what charge weight of Varget is getting you 2650 fps with your 18" barrel? Varget shines when you get into the compressed loads. I have gone as high as 25.5 grains and still never saw any pressure indicators.
jdhein9 me too. Good stuff. Crunchy bullet seating is the way to go
ive shot 24 over my chrono, however i have shot 24.5 and it grouped great, but i didnt get any chrono data on the 5 i shot. i can feel it crunch just a bit when they seat in there.
@West Desert Shooter and @Johnny's Reloading Bench I have shot 24-24.5 grains of Ramshot TAC with 75 grain Hornady hpbt bullets and federal match primers. Out of my 18" WOA SPR barrel I get 2750 fps. Might want to add that to your ball powder list.
I've been pushing 8208xbr with a 75gr bullet close to 2800fps out of a 18" barrel
I just got 5k CCI 41 primers and they look identical to the ones you pulled they even have the orange priming compound.... This is what made me decide to get a new barrel... My PSA upper has a 16 inch FN barrel in it but it won't group better than about 1.5 inches... I can't wait for my 18 inch WOA SPR barrel to come in they have about a 16 week backorder list...
Sir this was a very informative video and thank you for doing the research that you have done
I've been waiting for a good video breakdown of someone's attempt at cloning this beast. +1 and shared, do the same guys!
Quite a challenge. According to the Black Hills king pin, the powder is a proprietary blend that’s been fine tuned several times up to Mod-1. Velocity is just one variable.
Have you looked at the western powders shooters world i think it was or some different vit powders to see if they match up the same ?
You do amazing work, sir. It is much appreciated.
I believe Black Hills used Vihtavouri for this load. N540 is suggested for heavy bullets but 25.5 gr of N140 should get you real close too.
Yeah but my labor rate makes buying finished ammo more economical 😉 Love your vids!
Look at Rimshot TAC and IMR 8208XBR. Those have worked best for me. Got pretty close to Mk262 velocity using TAC but slightly better accuracy out of XBR.
Ramshot makes powder for the military here in Belgium. They use 25.5grains Wildboar for the NATO loads.
drive.google.com/file/d/0B6dGFV9NPEH6cjltUUdGZFNwODA/view?usp=sharing
DEFINITELY look at TAC. It's been a great all around performer for me.
I'm getting really good results using 23.2 grains of IMR 8208 XBR under Hornady 73 grain ELD-Ms in LC 5.56 cases. I'm averaging 2720 out of an 18" barrel
Chasdb108 I have tried the ram shot tac too. I had better accuracy with blc2.
How do you like the IMR 8208 XBR? Been meaning to try it, but haven't done so yet.
I have read that Mk262 also has a flash suppressant added to the powder.
Extremely interesting content. Looking forward to part 2.
The cantalore difference would concern me more than the tip of the bullet, I think to get that compared accuracy that you're looking for would be the base to ojive measurement.
Sierra TMK’s are the most accurate bullet I reload with in 77 grain for a 1:8 twist Bushmaster Predator, with 22.0 grains of Varget,
I've tried TAC (inconsistent accuracy), RL15 (good accuracy, poor temp stability), and H322. H322 was the winner, not as fast, but close. Seems counterintuitive, but give it a shot. 21.6-21.8 gr.
The IMI 77gr is really really hot aswell plus its cheaper than the blackhills
don't have a clue if somebody mentioned it but would love to see the case fill of the factory ball powder - maybe I missed it in the video
With Hornady Frontier Ammunition loading theirs with 75gr BTHP Match 5.56 at 9.99 a box of 20, i think they have a good option for those looking for similar performance from this caliber off the shelf.
Ha, ha...Johnny, I'd swear that you and I are clones. Keep it up. I like watching myself, through you.
You sure like to have lots of projects going on at the same time. Do you have any plans to do 277 wolverine down the road? I decided to try and put an ar upper together for the first time and am going to try and work up some of my own loads for it. keep up the good work.
I am 10 minutes into this clip. I am wondering if they switched from Rl15 to IMR4064 like I have heard that Federal did with the GMM 175SMK in the 308 for the same reason? I will continue watching & see what you figure out.
Johnny, Iv been trying the 77gr TMK, LC brass, CCI 400 and Hodgdon CFE 223. I also have a 500ct box of the 77gr HPBT MK with cannelure. These MK's are my next trials. thanks for the info.
@Johnny’s Reloading Bench ....... Would really like to have a link or two to the complete setup my friend!!
"3 cents for a primer.." I wish I knew those days! I thought I was doing good when I picked up a few boxes yesterday at 7.5 cents. :p
MK 262 Mod 0
First edition of MK 262
Nosler could not keep up demand of 77 and contract went to Sierra as Mod 1
TAC was the powder for Black Hill
IMR 8208 was the powder used by Australia Defense Force MK 262 Mod 1
If there's a episode 2 coming up today i think i'll have to call in sick for unplanned time off work. These videos is getting expensive even for us viewers..
I don't know about your experience, Johnny but my leftover Black Hills brass was complete junk! I lost a significant amount of neck tension and the primer pockets swelled up beyond serviceability. Alliant has Power Pro 2000MR, which was formulated for heavier bullets, without putting pressures at dangerous levels.
Have you considered Hornady superformance powder? I'm curious if that could be the powder
It's so slow I don't think we could get enough powder in the cartridge for good velocities. I'll probably be getting that powder soon for 6.5 Creedmoor, so maybe I'll do a test just for the heck of it. Trying some totally too-slow powders just to see what happens! Would be a fun video.
I'm pretty sure Black Hills uses a General Dymanics powder produced at St Marks for the MK 262. It goes by the designation of SMP-842. Many people claim it has similar characteristics as CFE223, but Hodgdon does not advocate such claims.
Great videos. I'm working on this loadout with cfe 223. Where did you get the target pages you use?
Thanks for this Outstanding video and series on Mk262!
How easy would it be to make a "better" cartridge than these? Berger 80 grain VLD have a bc of .445, There is a 70 grain
Nosler "RDF" bullet with a bc of .416 (they are fairly inexpensive in comparison too), and there is a 80 grain SMK HPBT with a bc of .420. If they are not seating them to mag length, I would assume you could go with a heavier, higher bc bullet and get better long range ballistics, even if you had to drop 100 fps, or more. Not to mention, starting with premium brass and match primers.
I'm curious ! Why did you try to duplicate this ammo using an 18" barrel when Black Hills specifically said they used a 20" test barrel? Please show 20" test results
“This is it brother” pure genius
His bullet comparator and mine measure quite a bit different. Aren't they all the same? Like inside hole all measure .222 or .223 at the ojia ?
In 2022 prices are insane its just about cheaper to buy factory ammo which is bs if you add in your time to reload your almost better off to just purchase factory ammo and as hard as it is to get components I hope prices will go back down to what they should/use to be
Have you considered lovex/shooters world powder, it's not very common on the civilian side but it is widely used as a military powder
The Quickoad results for X-Term/A2230 are quite a bit off.
Oh and per spec sheet, they used no 41 primers, on the mod 0, i just used standard cci small rifle and didnt notice a difference in standard small rifle vs no. 41
I'm not 100% sure maybe just barracks lawyers but I have always been told that CCI #41 primers is the only one that the military (US at least) uses. Because they don't slam fire in full autos.?.?.?
Small arms solutions does a excellent video on the mod o and mod1 blackhills ammo.
Johnny my future wife knows her place when it come to my passion on guns, ammo, reloading, and events like gun shows etc. Besides she supports it as she is getting into it herself....... Always asking questions on the subject.
She's a Keeper!
Wonder if the powder charge is still unstable considering tarren tacticals ammo conix went up in flames
Hey Johnny, great series. I would really like to see the reloading setup you referenced in the video, dang Google/UA-cam policies! I thought I would find it on Patreon with this video but didn't find it there. Do you have it anywhere online?
Johnny, should I be concerned shooting 262 mod1 through a 20" barrel? Would those extra 2 inches cause case pressure issues with the added velocity?
Nope. I've shot 262 mod1 thru 18", 20", and 24" 5.56 1-7 twist barrels with no over pressure issues at all.
Couldn't the varying OL (Black Hills) account for the difference in velocity?
O put my hands on some MK boxes. they don't group so well in my AR-55. So here is my question. did you try to low the original charge looking for accuracy? I will try that, but I don't have a 22 collet for my bullet puller die. you have some fans down the ecuator!!!