Ok i figured it out! The oscillators are overdriven into the filter by default, I heard the same problem happens on the Neutron, perhaps they wanted to overcome the "noisy filter" effect, because when i turn it the oscillators down to 6 maximum in volume, the K2 sounds almost identical in between the MS20 original and Mini , in fact it sounds like a whole different synth its really pretty wild! try it yourself if you got one!
Well, I guess I will load some people that will hate me for joining this test and adding my comment. But as I said at the end of the video. Even if the others are only partial close to the original, they still are good synthesizers and can be enjoyed. The man behind the machine makes the difference, always keep that in mind.
Rob Papen I think the differences are quite obvious, but that doesn’t mean that they bad or inferior. Even the Korg reissue sounds different. All three instruments are really fantastic.
Hi Rob. This is the first comparison in where I heard a clear difference between the three of those. I had already heard a vast diffence between the two Korgs in a video years ago of someone who said they sounded the same, which was clearly not the case. The way I see it is that even two of the same machines can sound very different when coming out of the same factory. And there is the simple fact that you can compare a couple of flatscreens next to each other and pick your favourite, but seperately one would favour every single one of them . Therefore I'll be the Dutchman I am and buy the cheapest one, which is the K-2. :) ;) I don't need keys and I love the looks of it. Groetjes en bedankt voor je vergelijking.
Great comparison, very informative! In fact, it's difficult to achieve that singing resonance with the K-2. As Rob demonstrates, the transition from no oscillation to a screaming filter is very abrupt. Nevertheless, I like the more aggressive character of the K-2 and I remember very well those days (35 years ago, my god …) where I fed the MS-20 output to the ESP and then back to the filter to make the sound more brutal. To get the K-2 more into the direction of the original, sometimes it helps a bit to reduce the oscillator level(s). Would be interesting to know which MS-20 filter we hear, I guess it's the old Korg 35 type. I do not quite agree with the term moogish, as soon as you start to utilize the HP/LP combination at high resonance all similarity (if there was any) with the American style ends.
Rob, definitely agree with you about the Behringer filter being more Moog-ey ... I think the main difference between your original MS-20 and the MS-20 mini is age - and Korg should know what they're doing recreating their own synth. If I was to buy one, the MS-20 mini is still the best brand new option - but ultimately the original is the one to get :)
To me they all sound different but the MS-vibe is right there in all three IMHO. Loved my MS20. Really loved it. But I was forced to part with it. I never bought a mini for some reason. But the K-2 found it’s way into my home and I love it. Wonderful machine. I think that there’s plenty of MS in it even though it’s not exactly the same as the OG. Thank you for this demonstration!
Original ms in this video is second revision, not k-35 filter. People always want that raw k-35 sound but always choose second revision when it compared back to back)
The original one is the only one that sounds like an ms 20 to me. The nicer nasal and more fat silky sound is exactly what is special to the synth and leads to that snappy plastic 3d reality that is so typical for the ms 20. especially on more experimental sounds. I can imagine that certain sounds i loved on my ms20 are just not possible with that clones..since the nasal singing sweet musical quality, even on highest res settings is really important when you start to do heavier modulations. It dont gets sweeter with the heavy modulations. The other two sound more conventional and brutish dry, and could be any other synth.. the k2 sounds more like a pro one than a ms20 to me. .maybe they have a curtis style filter implemented? But maybe they get their pro one closer to the original than. But thanks for the fair unbribed comparison that shows differences and not tries to hide them. Like all this other clone comparisons out there, where the clones win just because the tester wants that to happen, for whatever reasons. Test designed to show how close they can sound, but try to avoid settings where that dont works. Such differences in sound might appear small, but thats where the sex and magic is, and why you would choose a certain synth for certain sound over any other. The clones might be still good synths and allow the analog workflow in an analog setup with the originals feature set. And that can be a bigger benefit in a session than the sound quality itself.. But the difference in sound to well made plug ins appears to be way smaller than with the original synths.
"...where the clones win just because the tester wants that to happen..." rather than your comparison that puts forward your unbiased opinion that the Behringer and the newer Korg could be any other synth? What a silly thing to say.
It is possible you did this but by default the filter on the MS20 mini has the Korg i35 filter whereas your original MS20 uses the later OTA design. The mini has a jumper inside that you can switch to OTA if you wish.
For me the ms 20 got that amazing acid sound, i am so disappointed in the other 2 synth resonance/filter comparisons, but it didn’t feel you took time and precision on the k2, so i still have some hope to get that ms20 vibe…
5:40 K2 filter sounds over driven to my ears. If so, it's probably the reason why the resonance doesn't peak high like a sin wave. Is there a VCO level control before the filter on it?
Rob Papen VCO level makes a big difference with the ms20 filter. My guess is that you could get them to sound closer if you’d adjust for the calibration differences of the knobs on both synths.
@@lievendousselaere Okay. Well the K-2 and Korg MS-20 mini are not in my studio anymore. I just did check with 1osc and the my own Korg MS-20. I could not really detect a difference in filter behaviour with the volume of the oscillator. But maybe that is different with the K-2 or Korg mini.
Don't think so. I checked both my MS-20 and they both have this sound. The fundamental is very dominant in the waveforms. This is typical for the MS-20.
It is just like a whole bunch of Red Roses, they are all the same type but in detail they are all a little bit different. But I can't say, who is the prettiest!
Very good comparison. There nothing quite like the original. I have the MS20 Legacy version and the first thing I noticed was that it was actually impossible for me to recreate sounds I'd made in the 80s because the oscillator simply had a different tone.
Hate to say it but the original has that signature resonance sound that the other two simple cannot do. It's too bad because I've heard that drone in so many of my favorite Industrial albums back in the 80s and 90s.
THANK YOU ROB...at least someone who is able to find the Spots that matter sonically and make the MS20 that Most beloved beast among synthheads that have the Need for that controllable grittyness the Original 2 Filters had. Mini and K2 just fail to deliver this exactly.
The intervals seem to be too flat with the K2! This is bad calibration at least. Very attractive still, but the least attractive of the Behringer range. Suggestion: Try to set the Resonance of the LPF as colest as possible to a pure sine (oscillating, but not overdriving), turn off the VCOs, setting the Cutoff Fc to maximum and then modulate the Cutoff Frequency with Pink Noise. This will result in a fry pan. And all the fry pans differ very much!
Thanks for this nice comparison❣🥰 I bought k2 but didn't open it yet. I think I will like it. I played MS10 in 80s and had a lot of fun. I love plug wire from LFO into PW WIDTH! Even with one oscolator it can sounds as 2 osc synth!. But I am keen to plug into k2 electric guitar to control the pitch, and to have pretty cheap guitar synthesizer!🥰
Model-D . -- that was close to the original - at least to the Minimoog re-issue. This one not so much. In the US , you can get a used mini MS-20 for less than the price of a new K-2. The mini to me is gnarlier than the K-2. Thanks for the comparison.
Great comparison, I know you've had that original forever but would you say that the sound of it changed over time? I imagine in 30 years (if still working) the remakes would have a warmer sound to people's ears.
Do you think aging has anything to o with the differences? Definitely materials, I know they couldn't use a certain metal from the original in the mini due to restrictions or something. But over time as these synths break in, with the build up of dust and corrosion. I wonder if they'll end up getting that slightly detuned bassiness that we hear now with a lot of older synths.
2:36 why do you keep telling us the synth audio is recorded seperately? Why wouldnt it be? if you have any sound engineering knowleadge at all it will always be seperate and what is the alternative, recorded through the guys mic??? No we do not need to be told this every 1 minute
I think you have the rev 2 filter because you have an extra screw where the block diagram is. The reissues use the rev 1 filter so this might explain the difference - the FS reissue has both filters. I noticed on a lot of demos the reissue seems to have a lot of noise hiss all of the time (especially when using the rev 1 filter) but I've never heard that happen on demos of the original. To hear the 2 filters compared check this ua-cam.com/video/WafNf7k0Xac/v-deo.html
I have the K-2 for 5 days now and I'm a bit disappointed. Maybe I'm too much used to the sound of my Moog's. It's not fat in the lows and the filter peak does kinda suck. It comes in pretty late. Is the original Korg as weak in the subs as the K-2? Groetjes uit Sittard :)
i had the neutron and i hated it it was noisey and bad timbre very harsh an nasal didnt sound analogue at all , I hope the k 2 is much better... not sure what behringer are up to as the crave is a great little synth, it uses a different filter and has no over drive... I have no idea why you would have overdrive on a synthesizer.. I want a k 2 is its close to the ms 20 but tbh it sounds similarly harsh in comparison
As a user of the original MS-20 in 1978 and few years from there, and as a owner of a K-2, there is no doubt for me that the original MS-20 has a better sound, better VCO's, better filters. Sweet spots are easier to find and the overall sound feeling is more pleasant. That said, 41 years after, the K-2 is a good clone, not a "very good", but good clone producing usable sounds. Knobs position is very different and you can't use old "preset sheets", but by ear you can get something very close. As a musician, there is not the same pleasure when playing the K-2 than the original MS-20. The K-2 is lacking something. But once said, and for the price (we have to speak about the price even a little) the K-2 is a very good instrument that will bring joy to its owners. FYI using a special calculator, the MS-20 was sold 3800 French Francs in 1978, converted to Euros taking into account the monetary erosion this is equal to more than €2050... 10 times the K-2 price. So....
My first MS-20 was I believe Guilders 1500 or so. This would be now Euro 1500 I guess. I purchased it from bringing newspaper and with some help of my parents. Ooh...boy, whas I happy when this MS-20 and SQ-10 landed as 15 year old kid :D
Good my gut feeling is confirmed by you, its been some years i had my last ms but somehow these sounds stay with you so you instantly know the difference , i guess behringer will be closer on some recreations than on others , so far only model d and rd8 and the vocoder are succesful clones
@@cnfuzz Some of their creation are really sounding good, the Neutron for example does not try to mimic anything and has a strong personality with a very wide range of sounds. The K-2 is not a bad machine, it is cool to play it with the same interface than the MS-20 and having a sound that is very near. And I think that for many people who are younger and who have not used the true MS-20 the K-2 will really do the job and will bring a lot of pleasure. The problem is just for older people like me, like Rob Papen, you perhaps, who have the sound of the true MS-20 in our ears and guts... When you play the K-2 it's cool, really, ... but no cigare...
@@KNHSynths like you say they should make more of their own creations, i also have the neutron, to me it is like a cross between crumar spirit with some ms dirtyness, by using the lfo as a 3rd oscillator it is no slough at bass and great at fm fx, overal you can say all the behringer analogs have a tendency to brightness with very present mids, in the case of a screamer like k2 this makes it sound harder than it should , being your age and Rob's i personally do not like these frequencies to much as they remind me of digital staircasing in vsti and smartphone speakers.
This was a really good comparison. I've only started toying around a bit with my K2 and it is capable of making some great sounds. I feel like the K2 misses the target by a little bit, but isn't actually a bad synth in and of itself. I think any capable user will do a lot with it and the price is good. That original MS20 had the best sound I thought. Best I can come up with is...mellow. The Mini is a bit brighter, more brash.
Thanks! And I really like the ending, it's true, even though I would prefer a vintage one, I don't doubt that I´ll have lots of fun when I get mi ms mini and that enough for now Great comparison!
Wel ik heb hier meer de indruk dat het gewoon Behringer afbreken is. Je gaat me toch niet vertellen dat de MS20 mini een beter product is Rob . Plastieken keyboardje met membraan aan elkaar vast gemaakt en contacten van een 2 mm groot . De mini is een behuizing dat je koopt met heel goedkope onderdelen in.
As I mentioned somewhere else. Its kinda bit unfair to compare 30+years old analog hardware with one that was made and shipped "yesterday". Analog circuitry ages and always go a bit out of spec, If you compare two vintage MS20, they ll sound different too and maybe even more different than K-2 vs MS-20. Anyways I think the vibe is pretty much there and both MS20mini and K-2 are great products.
@DestroyER82 You would be totally right about the fairness of such a comparison...if...the manufacturers wouldn't claim to having made a clone or a new but otherwise nearly identical version of the original. Or at least try to let their (potential) customers believe that they managed to do something like that. But on the other hand, everyone should know that this claim is an illusion and there must be differences. Which are, of course, later in the mix are quite irrelevant...since there is always an Equalizer. And then the different playback devices.
@@pontram Maybe it sounds nearly identical to MS20 they actually had lieing around when they calibrated their clone. But your point is 100% correct and in mix it doesnt really matter..
Great to her them all together. As you say they are all great machines but for me the original does stand out. Who knows it could be down to age on components. We all improve with age! ;)
great comparison many thank...one cuestion I want to buy a Roland Synth wich have a typical sound of 80 like Eurythmics, Depesche mode and actual Daftpunk... I SAW THE ROLAND Jupiter XM OR THE ROLAND SYSTEM 8 FOR 1300-1500 EUROS.... WICH DO YOU THINK IS BETTER.?? OR IS THERE AN OTHER THAT YOU RECOMMEND ME...
Go to ebay and get the Roland Sh-2 for that type of sound, no synth out now can get close to that sound unless you get the Verona '14 which is awesome but expensive.
No me gusta esta comparativa,no la veo clara para decidirme entre los tres,los parametros pueden cambiar y no haces las mismas cosas con cada sinte te lias mucho,el behringer noto mas saturacion muy bonita por cierto pero nada mas,no es muy clara la comparativa,si hubieras metido unos midis haciendo lo mismo hasta dar con los parametros correctos en cada uno para poder ver una diferencia real mueves un milimetro o menos cualquier rueda y el sonido cambia muchisimo,saludos
Play the Behringer or Mini decades later, it will sound like the original sounds now, a bit darker... Already been discussed when Mini was released... Other points are spot on, the grainy thing on Behringer is very noticeable... But what we should do is compare Mini and Behringer, honestly seems like Behringer did better job
you layed your finger on the problem with the comparison , its very clear K2 sounds far more brittle up to the point the sound falls apart at certain settings , the original just has more musicality and refinement and that unmistakeable "rubbery, nasal" sound, even the ms20 mini did a better job than k2 , no behringer got it wrong this time just as with the odyssey that is miles away from the original , good comparison job rob
@@pablolarosa5 really not ive owned a mark one white and two mark 2s, i know the arp sound and the behringer just lacks the arp tone, also the enveloppes have a very different timing , behringer was much closer on the minimoog , the k2 im undicided , but odyssey really sounds different
@@cnfuzz Behringer Odyssey is fantastic and sounds fantastic, but it sounds rather like the Korg Arp Odyssey than the original Mark II from 1975, that's true. However, for EUR 450 in Germany it is an incredible synth and the reason why I bought a K2. K2 is awesome and I can recreate the sounds of the MS20 better then in this quick test as small changes make a huge difference in the end.
those old ms-20 sound all a little different depending on the parts that korg used. that can never be the same in a modern smd circuit. analog circuits also "burn in" and will smoothen out so you cant compare new to old. the ms-20 is a cheapo budget synth like most vintage korg stuff so who gives a fuck. i like the ms-10 more anyways and the k-2 is certainly usable, especially with a good analog mixer.
Hm, I had MS-20M and was waiting for K-2 comparison. MS-20 Mini sounds like a VST version of Korg Legacy Collection. MS-20M is like double price of MS-20 Mini and now I see why. They say it has a different component here and there. So for example it does not have the noisy component problem as MS-20 Mini. Now, after watching your video, I can confirm that if I ever need the MS-20 sound again, I will have to buy MS-20M, because that one tear up the floors even more than Moog Minitaur. The only thing I did not like on it was a lack of modwheel and exotic CV scale, which made it unable to connect via any midi converter to a PC. As Rob Papen said in his video review, the K-2 filter in some positions sounds too American like Moog, not like Korg. I can support this statement. It is not that some parts would not be available nowadays. The MS-20M has this sound and it was built like 5 years ago.
Excellent review Rob! The original seems to sound a bit rounder/warmer and more in control. I like the sound of the new synths too, but it does sound like the filter gets over driven quite a bit more. It'd be nice if we could actually control that. Then again that ripping filter sound is what made the MS 20 famous in the end, and the new synths provide plenty of that. For 300 credits this is not too shabby. BTW love your old work with Peru.. it's been quite the inspiration to me :) This song in particular: soundcloud.com/payt69/spacedrifter
The original was at the end of 70ties a budget synthesizer. I only could have dreamed about a MiniMoog. The way they built it up did lead to this typical sound, especially in the filter with higher resonance and gave this synth its own spot. The K-2 sounds very good indeed and has all the comfort of MIDI and so on.
@@RobPapen i also remember the magazines at the time specifically loathet the filter for this very character (being dirty )funny how this very character made the ms20 a legend years later on , i think up to that point japanese synths had their own sound system 100, korg ms , yamaha cs 15 , more metallic and nasal , at the start of the 80s they change this by using the same chipsets as the american synths cem on jupiter 8/6 for vco , korg ssm on most of their 80s analog ...
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Ok i figured it out! The oscillators are overdriven into the filter by default, I heard the same problem happens on the Neutron, perhaps they wanted to overcome the "noisy filter" effect, because when i turn it the oscillators down to 6 maximum in volume, the K2 sounds almost identical in between the MS20 original and Mini , in fact it sounds like a whole different synth its really pretty wild! try it yourself if you got one!
I didn’t expect the differences to be that big. I was a bit surprised. The original MS20 sounds just great!!
Well, I guess I will load some people that will hate me for joining this test and adding my comment. But as I said at the end of the video. Even if the others are only partial close to the original, they still are good synthesizers and can be enjoyed. The man behind the machine makes the difference, always keep that in mind.
Rob Papen I think the differences are quite obvious, but that doesn’t mean that they bad or inferior. Even the Korg reissue sounds different. All three instruments are really fantastic.
the original must be payed,and is much more expensive,to me the mean character of the Behringer is good enough
Hi Rob. This is the first comparison in where I heard a clear difference between the three of those. I had already heard a vast diffence between the two Korgs in a video years ago of someone who said they sounded the same, which was clearly not the case. The way I see it is that even two of the same machines can sound very different when coming out of the same factory. And there is the simple fact that you can compare a couple of flatscreens next to each other and pick your favourite, but seperately one would favour every single one of them . Therefore I'll be the Dutchman I am and buy the cheapest one, which is the K-2. :) ;) I don't need keys and I love the looks of it. Groetjes en bedankt voor je vergelijking.
Great comparison, very informative! In fact, it's difficult to achieve that singing resonance with the K-2. As Rob demonstrates, the transition from no oscillation to a screaming filter is very abrupt. Nevertheless, I like the more aggressive character of the K-2 and I remember very well those days (35 years ago, my god …) where I fed the MS-20 output to the ESP and then back to the filter to make the sound more brutal. To get the K-2 more into the direction of the original, sometimes it helps a bit to reduce the oscillator level(s). Would be interesting to know which MS-20 filter we hear, I guess it's the old Korg 35 type. I do not quite agree with the term moogish, as soon as you start to utilize the HP/LP combination at high resonance all similarity (if there was any) with the American style ends.
The Behringer just seems brighter. I see that as a good thing, that's where EQ comes in.
Rob, definitely agree with you about the Behringer filter being more Moog-ey ... I think the main difference between your original MS-20 and the MS-20 mini is age - and Korg should know what they're doing recreating their own synth. If I was to buy one, the MS-20 mini is still the best brand new option - but ultimately the original is the one to get :)
Very good and informative test! Thank you Rob!
behringer k2 can be set to "last note priority trigger setting" ? 🎉🎉🎉 that ms20 only "higher note priority trigger"
The k2 and original are using the same filter? While the mini doesn't have the ability to switch filters like the k2 and the FS.
Does your original MS-20 have the Korg 35 filter module?
No idea. The serial numbers are sent to Korg Germany, to track the production date. The two I own have about 4000 copies in between them.
This is the rev 2 - the ones he's comparing against have rev 1
To me they all sound different but the MS-vibe is right there in all three IMHO. Loved my MS20. Really loved it. But I was forced to part with it. I never bought a mini for some reason. But the K-2 found it’s way into my home and I love it. Wonderful machine. I think that there’s plenty of MS in it even though it’s not exactly the same as the OG. Thank you for this demonstration!
Original ms in this video is second revision, not k-35 filter. People always want that raw k-35 sound but always choose second revision when it compared back to back)
The original one is the only one that sounds like an ms 20 to me. The nicer nasal and more fat silky sound is exactly what is special to the synth and leads to that snappy plastic 3d reality that is so typical for the ms 20. especially on more experimental sounds.
I can imagine that certain sounds i loved on my ms20 are just not possible with that clones..since the nasal singing sweet musical quality, even on highest res settings is really important when you start to do heavier modulations. It dont gets sweeter with the heavy modulations.
The other two sound more conventional and brutish dry, and could be any other synth..
the k2 sounds more like a pro one than a ms20 to me. .maybe they have a curtis style filter implemented? But maybe they get their pro one closer to the original than.
But thanks for the fair unbribed comparison that shows differences and not tries to hide them.
Like all this other clone comparisons out there, where the clones win just because the tester wants that to happen, for whatever reasons.
Test designed to show how close they can sound, but try to avoid settings where that dont works.
Such differences in sound might appear small, but thats where the sex and magic is, and why you would choose a certain synth for certain sound over any other.
The clones might be still good synths and allow the analog workflow in an analog setup with the originals feature set.
And that can be a bigger benefit in a session than the sound quality itself..
But the difference in sound to well made plug ins appears to be way smaller than with the original synths.
"...where the clones win just because the tester wants that to happen..." rather than your comparison that puts forward your unbiased opinion that the Behringer and the newer Korg could be any other synth? What a silly thing to say.
It is possible you did this but by default the filter on the MS20 mini has the Korg i35 filter whereas your original MS20 uses the later OTA design. The mini has a jumper inside that you can switch to OTA if you wish.
Great work Rob!
Great review Rob . Wish I never sold my original now . Still have the 10 . O well .
this was great, thanks!
Good comparison Rob, thank you!!
For me the ms 20 got that amazing acid sound, i am so disappointed in the other 2 synth resonance/filter comparisons, but it didn’t feel you took time and precision on the k2, so i still have some hope to get that ms20 vibe…
Very instructive! Many thanks
5:40 K2 filter sounds over driven to my ears. If so, it's probably the reason why the resonance doesn't peak high like a sin wave. Is there a VCO level control before the filter on it?
Sure, there is a VCO level and this was max open, like in the original MS-20.
Rob Papen VCO level makes a big difference with the ms20 filter. My guess is that you could get them to sound closer if you’d adjust for the calibration differences of the knobs on both synths.
@@lievendousselaere Okay. Well the K-2 and Korg MS-20 mini are not in my studio anymore. I just did check with 1osc and the my own Korg MS-20. I could not really detect a difference in filter behaviour with the volume of the oscillator. But maybe that is different with the K-2 or Korg mini.
2:00 Or may be because the original's filter can't fully open.
Thanks for the review
Don't think so. I checked both my MS-20 and they both have this sound. The fundamental is very dominant in the waveforms. This is typical for the MS-20.
@@RobPapen I see. Thanks again for your time.
It is just like a whole bunch of Red Roses, they are all the same type but in detail they are all a little bit different. But I can't say, who is the prettiest!
Especially if you're blind...
THIS is the very last word in synth comparisons.
A perfect analogy.
Original sounds "prettier" , I think price is clouding your view.
price is a major factor
Very good comparison. There nothing quite like the original. I have the MS20 Legacy version and the first thing I noticed was that it was actually impossible for me to recreate sounds I'd made in the 80s because the oscillator simply had a different tone.
Hate to say it but the original has that signature resonance sound that the other two simple cannot do. It's too bad because I've heard that drone in so many of my favorite Industrial albums back in the 80s and 90s.
THANK YOU ROB...at least someone who is able to find the Spots that matter sonically and make the MS20 that Most beloved beast among synthheads that have the Need for that controllable grittyness the Original 2 Filters had. Mini and K2 just fail to deliver this exactly.
The intervals seem to be too flat with the K2! This is bad calibration at least. Very attractive still, but the least attractive of the Behringer range. Suggestion: Try to set the Resonance of the LPF as colest as possible to a pure sine (oscillating, but not overdriving), turn off the VCOs, setting the Cutoff Fc to maximum and then modulate the Cutoff Frequency with Pink Noise. This will result in a fry pan. And all the fry pans differ very much!
Thanks for this nice comparison❣🥰 I bought k2 but didn't open it yet. I think I will like it. I played MS10 in 80s and had a lot of fun. I love plug wire from LFO into PW WIDTH! Even with one oscolator it can sounds as 2 osc synth!.
But I am keen to plug into k2 electric guitar to control the pitch, and to have pretty cheap guitar synthesizer!🥰
amazing job comparing these!
Model-D . -- that was close to the original - at least to the Minimoog re-issue. This one not so much. In the US , you can get a used mini MS-20 for less than the price of a new K-2. The mini to me is gnarlier than the K-2. Thanks for the comparison.
Great comparison, I know you've had that original forever but would you say that the sound of it changed over time? I imagine in 30 years (if still working) the remakes would have a warmer sound to people's ears.
is the vco of the behringer k-2 is exact as the original of ms-20?
Do you think aging has anything to o with the differences? Definitely materials, I know they couldn't use a certain metal from the original in the mini due to restrictions or something. But over time as these synths break in, with the build up of dust and corrosion. I wonder if they'll end up getting that slightly detuned bassiness that we hear now with a lot of older synths.
Big respect to you Mr Papen ;) very nice rewiew thanks ;)
2:36 why do you keep telling us the synth audio is recorded seperately? Why wouldnt it be? if you have any sound engineering knowleadge at all it will always be seperate and what is the alternative, recorded through the guys mic??? No we do not need to be told this every 1 minute
the behringer minimoog clone is so much closer than this one comes. yikes D:
Rob Papen, a person you can trust
Sounds like the K2 is more based on the Mini than the original, cuz they're quite close to each other I think.
I think you have the rev 2 filter because you have an extra screw where the block diagram is. The reissues use the rev 1 filter so this might explain the difference - the FS reissue has both filters. I noticed on a lot of demos the reissue seems to have a lot of noise hiss all of the time (especially when using the rev 1 filter) but I've never heard that happen on demos of the original. To hear the 2 filters compared check this ua-cam.com/video/WafNf7k0Xac/v-deo.html
I have the K-2 for 5 days now and I'm a bit disappointed. Maybe I'm too much used to the sound of my Moog's.
It's not fat in the lows and the filter peak does kinda suck. It comes in pretty late. Is the original Korg as weak in the subs as the K-2? Groetjes uit Sittard :)
Yep, Korg MS-20 is weak as K-2.
The ESP comparison is missing... or it's the more interesting thing about this synth.
i had the neutron and i hated it it was noisey and bad timbre very harsh an nasal didnt sound analogue at all , I hope the k 2 is much better... not sure what behringer are up to as the crave is a great little synth, it uses a different filter and has no over drive... I have no idea why you would have overdrive on a synthesizer.. I want a k 2 is its close to the ms 20 but tbh it sounds similarly harsh in comparison
As a user of the original MS-20 in 1978 and few years from there, and as a owner of a K-2, there is no doubt for me that the original MS-20 has a better sound, better VCO's, better filters. Sweet spots are easier to find and the overall sound feeling is more pleasant. That said, 41 years after, the K-2 is a good clone, not a "very good", but good clone producing usable sounds. Knobs position is very different and you can't use old "preset sheets", but by ear you can get something very close. As a musician, there is not the same pleasure when playing the K-2 than the original MS-20. The K-2 is lacking something. But once said, and for the price (we have to speak about the price even a little) the K-2 is a very good instrument that will bring joy to its owners. FYI using a special calculator, the MS-20 was sold 3800 French Francs in 1978, converted to Euros taking into account the monetary erosion this is equal to more than €2050... 10 times the K-2 price. So....
My first MS-20 was I believe Guilders 1500 or so. This would be now Euro 1500 I guess. I purchased it from bringing newspaper and with some help of my parents. Ooh...boy, whas I happy when this MS-20 and SQ-10 landed as 15 year old kid :D
@@RobPapen :-) I've got the MS-20 at 16; in 78 and it was a pure joy too. Later with the MS-50 and the SQ-10 it was something unforgettable !
Good my gut feeling is confirmed by you, its been some years i had my last ms but somehow these sounds stay with you so you instantly know the difference , i guess behringer will be closer on some recreations than on others , so far only model d and rd8 and the vocoder are succesful clones
@@cnfuzz Some of their creation are really sounding good, the Neutron for example does not try to mimic anything and has a strong personality with a very wide range of sounds.
The K-2 is not a bad machine, it is cool to play it with the same interface than the MS-20 and having a sound that is very near.
And I think that for many people who are younger and who have not used the true MS-20 the K-2 will really do the job and will bring a lot of pleasure.
The problem is just for older people like me, like Rob Papen, you perhaps, who have the sound of the true MS-20 in our ears and guts... When you play the K-2 it's cool, really, ... but no cigare...
@@KNHSynths like you say they should make more of their own creations, i also have the neutron, to me it is like a cross between crumar spirit with some ms dirtyness, by using the lfo as a 3rd oscillator it is no slough at bass and great at fm fx, overal you can say all the behringer analogs have a tendency to brightness with very present mids, in the case of a screamer like k2 this makes it sound harder than it should , being your age and Rob's i personally do not like these frequencies to much as they remind me of digital staircasing in vsti and smartphone speakers.
This was a really good comparison. I've only started toying around a bit with my K2 and it is capable of making some great sounds. I feel like the K2 misses the target by a little bit, but isn't actually a bad synth in and of itself. I think any capable user will do a lot with it and the price is good.
That original MS20 had the best sound I thought. Best I can come up with is...mellow. The Mini is a bit brighter, more brash.
Thanks!
And I really like the ending, it's true, even though I would prefer a vintage one, I don't doubt that I´ll have lots of fun when I get mi ms mini and that enough for now
Great comparison!
The original has the second filter version,the k2 has both,the mini only the first version,hard to compare this way
And now the new Korg reissue of the MS-20 FS has both early and late model filters as well.
@@citisein6016 I know,that is the one I own😉
Love Rob Papen.
Wel ik heb hier meer de indruk dat het gewoon Behringer afbreken is. Je gaat me toch niet vertellen dat de MS20 mini een beter product is Rob . Plastieken keyboardje met membraan aan elkaar vast gemaakt en contacten van een 2 mm groot . De mini is een behuizing dat je koopt met heel goedkope onderdelen in.
As I mentioned somewhere else. Its kinda bit unfair to compare 30+years old analog hardware with one that was made and shipped "yesterday". Analog circuitry ages and always go a bit out of spec, If you compare two vintage MS20, they ll sound different too and maybe even more different than K-2 vs MS-20. Anyways I think the vibe is pretty much there and both MS20mini and K-2 are great products.
@DestroyER82 You would be totally right about the fairness of such a comparison...if...the manufacturers wouldn't claim to having made a clone or a new but otherwise nearly identical version of the original. Or at least try to let their (potential) customers believe that they managed to do something like that.
But on the other hand, everyone should know that this claim is an illusion and there must be differences. Which are, of course, later in the mix are quite irrelevant...since there is always an Equalizer. And then the different playback devices.
@@pontram Maybe it sounds nearly identical to MS20 they actually had lieing around when they calibrated their clone. But your point is 100% correct and in mix it doesnt really matter..
The MS-20 has definitely a much better filter than both remakes...
Define "better"? Ditched my Rev1 MS20 for the K2 and not regretting it, given the price I got for it.
Salut Emmanuel ! Tu peux regarder ça aussi, 3 minutes avec le K-2, (j'ai fais deux autres démos, liens en fin de video) !
I'd take them all, all day every day, the K-2 sounds great but I really like the smoothness of the original. Label me a snob now. The K-2 is so fat!
Great to her them all together. As you say they are all great machines but for me the original does stand out. Who knows it could be down to age on components. We all improve with age! ;)
Great sound💥
Thanks!
White Albino! ❤🎉
great comparison many thank...one cuestion
I want to buy a Roland Synth wich have a typical sound of 80 like Eurythmics, Depesche mode and actual Daftpunk...
I SAW THE ROLAND Jupiter XM OR THE ROLAND SYSTEM 8 FOR 1300-1500 EUROS....
WICH DO YOU THINK IS BETTER.??
OR IS THERE AN OTHER THAT YOU RECOMMEND ME...
Go to ebay and get the Roland Sh-2 for that type of sound, no synth out now can get close to that sound unless you get the Verona '14 which is awesome but expensive.
3:35 the behringer sounds harsh and forced like their other euro rack synths
all hail ROB!
the mini ms20 was designed by the same guy who designed the original ms20, so of course its sounds closer to the original.
A lot can happen to a person's hearing over the course of 40 years or so.
So, Uli couldn't clone MS-20 properly, bad news. I wanted to buy it before this comparison
Цыхра Цыхра same lol... just sold my ms-20 D:
Ik kijk er naar uit om de Oberheim Obxa Behringer versie te horen .
No me gusta esta comparativa,no la veo clara para decidirme entre los tres,los parametros pueden cambiar y no haces las mismas cosas con cada sinte te lias mucho,el behringer noto mas saturacion muy bonita por cierto pero nada mas,no es muy clara la comparativa,si hubieras metido unos midis haciendo lo mismo hasta dar con los parametros correctos en cada uno para poder ver una diferencia real mueves un milimetro o menos cualquier rueda y el sonido cambia muchisimo,saludos
Play the Behringer or Mini decades later, it will sound like the original sounds now, a bit darker... Already been discussed when Mini was released... Other points are spot on, the grainy thing on Behringer is very noticeable... But what we should do is compare Mini and Behringer, honestly seems like Behringer did better job
They didn't even volume match them...
you layed your finger on the problem with the comparison , its very clear K2 sounds far more brittle up to the point the sound falls apart at certain settings , the original just has more musicality and refinement and that unmistakeable "rubbery, nasal" sound, even the ms20 mini did a better job than k2 , no behringer got it wrong this time just as with the odyssey that is miles away from the original , good comparison job rob
Who says the Odyssey from Behringer doesn’t sound like the original? I’ve heard quite the contrary.
@@pablolarosa5 really not ive owned a mark one white and two mark 2s, i know the arp sound and the behringer just lacks the arp tone, also the enveloppes have a very different timing , behringer was much closer on the minimoog , the k2 im undicided , but odyssey really sounds different
@@cnfuzz Behringer Odyssey is fantastic and sounds fantastic, but it sounds rather like the Korg Arp Odyssey than the original Mark II from 1975, that's true. However, for EUR 450 in Germany it is an incredible synth and the reason why I bought a K2. K2 is awesome and I can recreate the sounds of the MS20 better then in this quick test as small changes make a huge difference in the end.
Unlike most of Behringer's clones, this one doesn't sound like the original. It sounds more like the Neutron.
6.58 to 7.05 the K-2 sounds v v v v close to the ms-20, close enough not to matter and much more so than the thinner mini.
those old ms-20 sound all a little different depending on the parts that korg used. that can never be the same in a modern smd circuit. analog circuits also "burn in" and will smoothen out so you cant compare new to old. the ms-20 is a cheapo budget synth like most vintage korg stuff so who gives a fuck. i like the ms-10 more anyways and the k-2 is certainly usable, especially with a good analog mixer.
Hm, I had MS-20M and was waiting for K-2 comparison. MS-20 Mini sounds like a VST version of Korg Legacy Collection. MS-20M is like double price of MS-20 Mini and now I see why. They say it has a different component here and there. So for example it does not have the noisy component problem as MS-20 Mini. Now, after watching your video, I can confirm that if I ever need the MS-20 sound again, I will have to buy MS-20M, because that one tear up the floors even more than Moog Minitaur. The only thing I did not like on it was a lack of modwheel and exotic CV scale, which made it unable to connect via any midi converter to a PC. As Rob Papen said in his video review, the K-2 filter in some positions sounds too American like Moog, not like Korg. I can support this statement. It is not that some parts would not be available nowadays. The MS-20M has this sound and it was built like 5 years ago.
Excellent review Rob! The original seems to sound a bit rounder/warmer and more in control. I like the sound of the new synths too, but it does sound like the filter gets over driven quite a bit more. It'd be nice if we could actually control that. Then again that ripping filter sound is what made the MS 20 famous in the end, and the new synths provide plenty of that. For 300 credits this is not too shabby.
BTW love your old work with Peru.. it's been quite the inspiration to me :) This song in particular: soundcloud.com/payt69/spacedrifter
Iam a bt disappointed after Behringer did a perfect job on the Model D and the SH-101 clones.
Yeah, just as my own comparisons showed with my MS-20 FS and the K-2: no difference whatsoever. They are exactly the same. Thanks for the comparison!
Not very important unless your ambition in life is to make clones of Daft Punk songs.
Comparing the OTA against Korg-35 filter is unnecessary and confusing.
I have no idea what is inside my Korg MS-20. Which components original are used. For sure, both the K-2 and Mini-Korg sounded different.
There is a small difference, but hahaha I like the Behringer much better ;)
The original was at the end of 70ties a budget synthesizer. I only could have dreamed about a MiniMoog. The way they built it up did lead to this typical sound, especially in the filter with higher resonance and gave this synth its own spot. The K-2 sounds very good indeed and has all the comfort of MIDI and so on.
@@RobPapen i also remember the magazines at the time specifically loathet the filter for this very character (being dirty )funny how this very character made the ms20 a legend years later on , i think up to that point japanese synths had their own sound system 100, korg ms , yamaha cs 15 , more metallic and nasal , at the start of the 80s they change this by using the same chipsets as the american synths cem on jupiter 8/6 for vco , korg ssm on most of their 80s analog ...
Somehow all three are winners. The original has something special though
no comparison, ms20 wins always
sorry but the new ones are crap (both)
it does not sound like a MS20 at all!
Most Behringer Fans will buy the K2 because it is cheap, not because of the sound!
Manfred Knauthe any synth fan would be interested in the sound.