Has Leica Lost Its Mojo?
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- Опубліковано 14 лис 2022
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Leica got it right with the M6.
We need Film Cameras. If only Olympus made the OM 1 again with an updated battery compartment of course. A simple instrument is all you need for creative control. 📸
I agree. The problems with digital Leica need to be addressed, but are a separate issue to the reintroduction of the film M6. It is expensive but has been kept in line with the second hand M6 market, which is reasonable when you think about it. I believe it costs far more to make a mechanical film camera. Well done to Leica for keeping film alive - this is the most important message they have sent out to the film world!
Leica ... it took them many years to bring this when they could have fixed the issues with the M6, what you said is misinformation,
every major camera brand should make a manual camera which culminates every positive thing of that time from their cameras. Nikon for example a mix of th F2 and F3 in titan preferably etc.
My dream for years. However, given the state of Olympus today, that's highly unlikely. But, just like in the past Olympus could outsource production of that camera, like, agin, to Cosina. Same as in the case with Nikon, with their FM2 or FM3/a...
@@tomislavmiletic_ Yes great idea, outsource. If Leica can do it so can others. With film demand these days and the prices of film, a camera manufacture would make a profit.
Over the past couple of decades, Leica managed to reinvent themselves as an upscale lifestyle brand, complete with their own posh boutiques, etc.. As a result, their brand itself is now Leica's biggest selling point. This is a big part of why they've been able to get away with pricing that has easily outstripped inflation during this period of time (not that Leica products have ever been inexpensive). Ironically, were Leica to have created a less expensive camera that would have been more accessible to a wider range of budgets, it would likely damage their brand. Wealthy people (Leica's target market) tend to want what other wealthy people own and the masses desire, not what the masses own. Ironically, this in turn creates more desire among the masses (thanks in part to the impact of marketing). It makes for a viscous cycle.
All that said, I acknowledge that this is probably the only reason that Leica is still around at this point in time. I'm hoping that the rehashed M6 will ultimately encourage other camera manufacturers to consider producing new film cameras going forward, at more accessible prices. That would a true win for the film community and were that to happen then Leica could be credited with inspiring such a win.
The bottom line is that more than ever before we are living in a marketing-driven world thanks to the power and reach of the Internet. Leica serves as a great example of this. Hitting even closer to home, you've seen for yourself that just including "Leica" in your video titles on UA-cam equates to more views. You certainly aren't the only one to figure this out. The difference is that unlike so many other UA-camr's flaunting Leica cameras for clicks, you are an incredibly talented photographer/videographer in my opinion. This is why I continue following your channel, and plan to do so whether you were to continue using Leica gear or not.
I too wish others would follow the lead of Leica and the new M6 (Olympus, please!) but really don’t think they have that niche market/appeal, given, for example, that even Nikon canned the wonderful F6 recently.
Thanks for that appreciate the comment and kind words.
The reliability issues of new Leica’s is frustrating, but then I’ve heard and experienced similar issues with other brands too, particularly Nikon and Fuji, let’s not forget Canon’s problems with overheating etc on their bodies etc. these are also high end brands used by professionals and their top of the line stuff is also very expensive… When these things happen to Leica it tends to draw more attention though because of their ‘status’ as a brand.
In terms of the new M6, I don’t have any complaints. Leica have always been a high end brand. Also I feel by producing M6’s again it also breathes life into the 2nd hand Leica market because it means you can buy an old M6 and still have Leica support and Leica spare parts produced for it. For the folks on a tight budget there are still heaps of good cameras available on the market at a reasonable price. I’m a firm believer that if the concern of no new film cameras becomes a reality we will find manufacturers in the film community that will find solutions, be it through producing parts for popular classic models, or totally new camera designs.
Also think that the new M6 is a marketing product, you could buy the MP instead already before. But so what? You have one more choice.
1954 Don't forget it. Leica was at the top until Nikon released the F mount in 1959 and market shifted from rangefinders to SLRs. Leica stayed the corse and created a market for themselves through think and thin. We're at the same crossroads and I applauded the release of the M6; it is a big statement! They are committed to their heritage and film photography. Nikon just a few year ago discontinued the last film SLR, the F6. Now it appears that Nikon just might sunset the F mount (TBD) in favor of the Z mount. The M mount will be the last mount standing since the early days of 35mm/FX format. What this also means is that the OVF is also being replaced by the EVF. In the future, if you want a camera with an OVF it might just be a Leica. I also feel that EVFs are bad for your eyes, so I think we'll see a demand for OVFs in the future after the big manufactures discontinue it. A low-end Leica doesn't serve anyone and ends up hurting the company instead; they've done in the past with rebranded Panasonics. The M6 release is a big deal; especially if you're a film shooter which I am.
Hmmmm… all are entitled to their points of view, sensor issue is a pretty remote problem maybe 1 in 1000…. New Leica M6… people should keep in mind it’s a camera that will outlast any digital camera out there! price for something that’s so solid and longevity of it, totally worth the price they’re asking for. Leica is not in the game to make products available to everybody… I disagree that they’re losing their mojo… sorry that’s my view, keep up the channel Paul!
Thanks mate!
Having just recently acquired the M9 it's everything I hoped it would be... a digital film camera shooting experience, not a computer. No bells, no whistles, nothing getting in the way of taking photographs. I get why people covet the brand. This is exactly what Leica are pandering towards with the M6 re-release, nostalgia and brand hype... much like Apple or other coveted brands I guess. To be honest, if a company offered a similar product like the M9 a lot of people would be all over it. I know Pixii have launched a rangefinder, but that's too cost prohibitive, and Fujifilm have come close with the X-Pro1 which I use and adore... but it's not quite the same is it. Maybe they have lost their mojo... or maybe it's a way to pull in funds to finance a much bigger release further down the line?
I’ll gladly pay $5300USD for a new with warranty M6 over a $3000+ for a used M6. The M4 and the M6 are probably two of the most lusted after old Leica cameras out there. While the market might be small, it is a market that is growing slowly. Kodak & Ilford both are making more film than ever and there a numerous speciality makers out there either respooling old film or making new emulsions. Leica’s move here is just recognizing that there is still a market for this classic design. As for the sensor issues, all the manufacturers have had some issues. It’s also important to note here that most of the companies don’t make their own sensor but they are made by Sony, or maybe it’s Panasonic. As for Mr Taylor, well if you play stupid games expect to win stupid prizes
I completely agree. Leica seems to buy almost all their electronics from other manufacturers. Their lenses are still pretty special, though. Their industrial design is great. They used to be cutting edge wrt mechanics, but today's cameras aren't very mechanical. I wish Leica would use their mechanical skills to make new, innovative, interesting and useful mechanical camera solutions. How about an optical viewfinder that could easily be calibrated by the user? Or that would automatically calibrate? That would be awesome.
I bought an M6 back in 2012 and have used it regularly ever since. It took me until May 2023 before I took the plunge and picked up a used digital Leica (SL2s). I still can’t justify an M11 with its price tag, especially as I already have the M6. Both were significant investments for me despite now being in my late forties and I’m always shocked and a little stunned whenever I see someone on UA-cam or wherever in their twenties or early thirties that has gone about and bought an M10 or M11 with a summilux to go with it. Surely at their age they’d be better off investing their money elsewhere.
Saying that though, my M6 has tripled in value since 2012.
Using a camera near any kind of laser equipment is just plain moronic - sure, you can get interesting pictures, but a laser is up to several million times brighter than the sun (focused in a single, coherent and narrow frequency range beam) and will instantly wreck a camera if the laser hits the lens/sensor. Why would you ever blame Leica for idiotic behavior? Next up; "My Leica got ruined when I used it under water". Exposing a camera sensor to laser beams is not a sensor issue but a user issue.
moronic and Idiotic......you know me well. In my feeble defense I've shot so many laser shows without issue, so guess moronic and idiotic finally slapped my fat arse.
@@paultaylorphotography9499 Well, apparently it did
With film at least, if you make an exposure error you just wind onto the next frame.
@@killyoueatyouburp indeed
Doesn't seem to worry, canon. Now, why is that?
First, I musty say that I really enjoy your videos. The passion that you put into your photography is inspiring and I really enjoy the photographs you create.
I'm sure you are right that the re release of the M6 is a marketing product. The question I would have is why that is necessarily bad? I imagine the marketing department at Leica feel that they will be able to sell these camera's because they feel people will want to buy them. That seems ok to me? Better to release a product that people want to buy than one they do not.
I do understand that these are expensive cameras. But I feel that a large part of this cost is down to the cameras being made in the Global North where costs - wages in particular - are higher - across society. Most manufacturers make these sort of goods in the Global South, where costs are very much lower and sell to the relatively wealthy in the world at a price that doesn't reflect what it would cost to make where it is sold. Perhaps therefore we have developed a false sense of the value of the things we own.
This stuff is complicated, I'm sure that I'm presenting a very over simplified version and I'm not claiming any great altruism on the part of Leica. But I wonder if the cost of the camera is in fact what it costs to have it made by hand in relatively low numbers by people who get paid something like what I do?
I am of course sitting in front of a computer that is made in the Far East, with a phone and many other objects around me with a similar origin. So I can't claim any great altruism either.
To the guy who's camera was damaged by a laser, that is super bad luck. But I'm pretty sure a laser would damage a camera sensor - Sony for example have issued a warning to that effect. The laser of course shouldn't be pointing at you camera, as it could damage your eyesight too.
The issue with the M9 series camera and their sensor is quite well documented. My M9 (my main camera, bought second hand over ten years ago) has had two new sensors, the second with the corrosion free covering, fitted at no cost. Whilst the sensors are no longer replaced, for a good time they were. Unfortunately we live in a throw away society at present. Hopefully this will change one day. My experience with Leica puts them better than most.
Anyway, yes it's probably marketing - Leica already make a couple of film cameras. Apparently the rereleased M6 has some internal improvement over the original. Sure I'd like one, I'd like a film M with an internal meter. I can't afford one, and I already have an M9 and M2 which are both fantastic cameras.
Just in commenting here I'm sure I'm falling for some kind of trap. I don't usually comment and this video does feel more like click-bait than the usual videos here. Oh well!
Thanks for your insightful thoughts James, really appreciate it!
I was never able to buy an M6 when I was younger. Now, I am concerned about buying a used M6. Some people are, some people are not. Some people have had no problems, others have. To be able to buy a NEW M6, something I have always wanted, is much appreciated by me So yes, I will be buying a NEW M6, marketing gimmick or not. Thank you for your perspective.
I’m sure it will be a fantastic camera John, congratulations. My 1960s M2 is still going strong, so I’m sure your new M6 will give you many many years of great service! Enjoy shooting with it and wishing you good light!
I am glad that Leica brought back the Leica M6 we need new film camera's. I hope that brining back the M6 might inspire Nikon for example to bring back the Nikon FM. Talking about the steep prices, don't forget that most Leica's are made in Germany with good wages for there employes. Not like other companies who get all the work done in China or Thailand.
Nice video again Paul. Can't beat a bit of honesty about photography in general. I think all camera manufacturers have gone the same way. They churn out the latest " must have " upgrade on a regular basis. Profits over quality.
What I hate the most about the new M6 is how some people on UA-cam stick to the narrative that the new M6 is a major step towards saving film photography... I agreed with Coops and left a comment there and I also agree with you.
As a M6 classic shooter myself, I applaud the re-issue of the M6. That means that my M6 would be continuously supported by Leica. I wouldn't buy any new Leica digital. I always stay at least a couple generations behind. This applied to other brands too. I just don't see any reason for staying with the latest when it comes to digital. I can put the extra change into lenses.
Would love to see a return of your OM to the channel. Indifference to marketing pushes and new releases is a wonderful option, be it M6, XT-5, a7RV, or anything else
Thanks Edwin
Always enjoy your videos and photography books! I am lucky: My M-E from 2013, M10, and M3 (1959) all work wonderfully with no sensor issues or film problems. All get used well. So the issues with sensors, etc. might not affect many of the other Leica shooters. Well done, Paul!
Thanks mate!
Lasers directly onto the sensor will destroy any camera, brand doesn't matter. The manual for my Canon R5 even states this specifically. I've never had a problem with any of my Leica sensors (including the M9), but I have had a sensor problem with an Olympus camera.
As for the M6, it costs about the same as it did when it was brand new, adjusted for inflation. Don't think you can ask more than that, really. Leica is hand made and will always be expensive. Cosina on the other hand, could easily make a less expensive film camera! And I really don't get why they don't jump on the opportunity.
I bought a brand new M6 from an authorized Leica dealer in 2000 for $1845. (Leica was offering rebates on their gear back then, the base price without rebate was $1995.) $1845 adjusted for inflation equates to $3193 today. At $5295, the new Leica M6 represents nearly a 50% increase in price. $1995 adjusted for inflation would be $3453. The new M6 costs 42% more relatively speaking. Leica's lens prices have increased much more substantially.
@@VirtualGuth the solution is quite simple, the public needs to stop buying them. Nothing sends a message to a company quite like a lack of sales. This also applies to the used market.
@@VirtualGuth If you compare the original price with the new one, it's nearly identical. In 2000 film was dying down and most camera suppliers sold off equipment cheaper. Plus Leica wanted to push the M7 by then. The list price in the mid-90's was around $4600 (equivalent) and they made far greater numbers of them back then, so it makes total sense for it to be a little more expensive now. Leicas are expensive, the only time they tried making a "cheap" model (CL) it was a financial disaster for them.
Plenty of other brands have they means and equipment to make cheaper film bodies, though. Complain to them in stead! (Particularly Cosina).
@@thedondeluxe6941 Obviously people are free to spend their money as they wish. You interpret it as complaining, but I'm simply pointing out the obvious via my own real-world experience as opposed to rehashing what others have to say as is so common across the Internet these days. In addition, Leica's lens prices have increased at a rate even greater than that of their cameras. Regardless of whether they happened to be focused on (no pun intended) producing film cameras or digital cameras, their M-mount lenses are shared by both. The bottom line is that now more than ever before, Leica markets specifically to the very wealthy. Their existence depends on this.
Furthermore, producing the new M6 wasn't that much of a stretch for Leica as this camera is essentially a MP with a few changes - it is based on a camera that they were already producing. This was basically a marketing-driven move from a company that has mastered marketing. That much Leica deserves credit for as without their marketing prowess they most likely would not have reached this point. Other manufacturers would have to jump through quite a few more costly major technical hoops before they could begin manufacturing film cameras once again. Whether or not that will happen remains to be seen.
@@VirtualGuth That was kinda my point, though. Without existing infrastructure for producing the M6, it would have been even more expensive. And if Leica, a small German company, would have had to make a new assembly line, machines, tools etc for a new camera, it would not be financially feasible at all. It's a small niche company that makes hand crafted cameras and lenses in small numbers. And they are located in a very expensive country, in a very expensive part of the world. I don't really get how they could have done this differently?
They've never been a major player in the camera business and have always been completely dependent on Minolta/Panasonic/Sigma etc to even attempt getting into the consumer market. I just think you're overestimating what Leica can actually do and still make money. It's a bit like criticising Rolex for not making a G-Shock imo. I'm just happy they bother to still make film cameras tbh.
And the list price really isn't much more than in the 90's, despite being made in far smaller numbers.
Leica is a controversial brand, but if one was fine with their products in the last 20 years i see no reason to assume they have 'lost their mojo' now.
One thing Leica has done right was to keep producing film cameras even though the world was going digital. After the M7 and M6 ceased production they came out with the MA and MP (not the original MP of the late 50’s and early 69’s) so they never really shut down their film camera production lines.
For Nikon, Canon, etc to redevelop or continue with their older film cameras would be cost prohibitive considering the demand for film cameras isn’t like it was in the heyday of film. I’m sure if the demand is there they’ll reinvest in the machinery and production staff and produce new film cameras.
Maybe some company like TT Artisans or LLL might come out with a clone Nikon, Canon etc as some if the patents have expired.
Agree with previous comments about lasers, I would never photograph anywhere near a laser show
The Leica M6 used values over the years have gone through the roof. The younger generation are buying film cameras just like they’d are vinyl. The Leica M6 is iconic so why wouldn’t they re master it
Leica have rarely made a camera that is affordable they are a luxury brand
I’m sorry I don’t get the message in this video and why the negativity.
Brands these days go for people with high social media followings. They are not necessarily the best photographers and that’s annoying but that’s the world we live in.
I've been shooting all sorts of cameras over the last decade roughly. Modern mirrorless, old film etc. Pentax, Olympus, Canon, Sony, Fuji, Nikon, Hasselbad, Minolta... yatta yatta... the list goes on. I try out all sorts and luckily my friends group is happy to swap for fun.
When I finally got to use a 35mm film Leica that costed nearly 3 grand, I was heartbroken. It sucked. The shutter was spongy and indirect... the awkward focus lever... the tiny crappy viewfinder... picking up my OM1 was such a breath of fresh air. It just simply did EVERYTHING BETTER. Before you rag on the SLR vs rangefinder argument, I still prefer my 1962 AutoEYE II even. Then boom... the modern one, if rebranded, id mistake for any other mirrorless. It doesn't do anything special over another high dollar work horse.
Leica is like Gucci and Louie Viton... it's shiny, fancy and really does nothing better than other options that are half the price or less. Never meet your heros... I firmly stand on my opinion that in 2023 Leica is for the pompous camera "expert" that scoffs at the infinite pile of BETTER CAMERAS just because they paid way more than they are comfortable than admitting, to deliver average results. It largely is held up only be the types of photographers that scoff at anything that didn't cost a months wage. Just overall, left me with no intention to EVER own one. Shame, really. I gave them so many tries.
Final point- Leica's are gently and precisely developed in a white room laboratory, other brands are developed in the field after rigorous abuse. It shows.
Lasers can permanently fry all camera sensors. Google the story a few years back about a self driving car’s LiDAR laser system fried a camera at a show in Las Vegas. Sadly, the sensor may be shot and need to be replaced. Usually warranty won’t cover it. As for Leica and pricing, yes it’s frustrating. As for repairs Leica needs a pro support program like Canon has CPS and Nikon has NPS. They need to support pros with expedited service. Here in the USA there’s been talk about a Leica pro support program, but nothing has materialized. One of my fears, is dreading the day I have to send in for repairs. My last gripe is slow output of manufacturing of gear. They take months or years to make available new products. With all that said I love their products.
Agreed I've searched loads of sensor deaths courtesy of lasers since my incident. I have shot loads of lasers before without a hitch guess my luck ran out this time. Warranty is most likely not an option, I did fully insure the Q2 so fingers crossed that'll cover the new sensor. As for the 16 weeks turnaround that's my biggest gripe. This being my first Leica it has left me feeling flat but I do love the look and feel of the thing.
I recently bought into the Leica universe with an M7, 35mm summilux and 50mm summilux. The 50mm summilux(chrome), had some stiff oil so it was hard to focus... A known problem for their first batch of this model. 4000 USD for a premium lens, that has an issue....
I had the option to pay an extra 350 USD to get it sent to Leica and get it fixed. I ended up accepting my fate. 5 weeks went by and it finally got back. Unfortunately when it came back, they hadn't assembled the lens properly and the focus tab was loose... So back it went again. Free this time though. The whole experience was very bitter and I had already lost a lot of faith in the brand.
My small requirement and expectations for the brand, was not met. I don't expect to be treated like a king, because I spend stupid money on a brand. I do though expect to be met with respect and not to feel like a clown taken hostage.
Leica is losing touch with their costumers with an arrogant attitude alongside their pride.
Thanks for the comment and relaying your experience, that's a shocker!
@@PaulCSmithPhotographer I made exactly the same experience with my newly acquired camera, lenses and accessories directly from the HQ store in Wetzlar Germany between 2020-2022. The M-A (sent back 2x), Elmarit 28 (3x), Summicron 35 (2x), Summilux 35 FLE (1x), Visoflex (1x) and Viewfinder Magnifier 1.4 (1x) - only the Summaron 28 didn't need a fix. I also got treated with no respect, with no apologies from the brand/company. However, I do not have any issues with cameras and lenses made before the Blackrock Acquisition of Leica in 2010.
To be fair, those lasers will damage the sensors for any digital camera. It’s not a Leica problem. I agree with your other points.
I shoot both film and digital; Leica and Canon. years ago when I first purchased a digital camera, the first thing I learned was to keep it away from lasers. Leica is Rolex-almost the same complaints-but in the watch world there’s competition. Leica has none. I suppose Canon and Nikon can do something about it, doubt it though. But you never know if the Swiss watch industry can bounce back from the “quartz crisis” so can film cameras. Regarding cost, new photography gear will always be expensive I see a bunch of young enthusiasts spend big “dentist money” on digital gear. Mixed in with the soup’s severe GAS every few years a new announcement is made.
Paul, first and foremost, thank you for making this video. I would like to add my voice to yours because I concur with your assessments 100%. I’m a Leica user since 2017 after beginning my photographic journey with Nikon and later Fujifilm’s X and GFX systems. But as satisfying as those systems were I still found myself chasing the fabled “Leica Look”. Now I have it with primarily the M system. Becoming a card carrying member of the Red Dot Club is special. But only if that Red Dot continues to stand for and represent the HIGHEST ethical quality of mechanical excellence and customer appreciation. Continued happiness and success to you and yours. Be Blessed, Doc Chaps
Thanks Chaps appreciate it!
I enjoyed this and you make some valid points. I agree they should focus on making an affordable film camera and I am sure they will be flying off the shelves - and they can still have more exclusive models too
Great video & great that you can talk about problems with the camera.
Cheers Colin
Shoot with coops is a great channel from Perth WA
I've watched Coops for years top bloke great content.
Great points Paul articulated far better than I ever could. I'm still very conflicted about my ill fated Q2, fair enough lasers and sensors not a great mix, but again as you stated in your video I've shot plenty before without issue. It's certainly left a sour taste after wanting a leica for so long then killing the thing in just 14 days, it reminds me of the old saying you should never meet your heroes, you'll only be disappointed haha. Saying all of the above I can't wait to get the thing back it does feel incredible in the hand and is capable of some fine work, I'm heavy on my gear though so I'll be a tad more cautious where I point the thing in future, which I hate the thought of. I saw the Coops video last week, he makes some great points, I read some of the comments below, there was some backlash from loyal Leicaites. I guess everyone has their favorite brands and will defend them at all costs, I'm so glad I don't have a fave. I shoot many brands and to be totally honest the only one that let me down so soon (although self inflicted) was the Leica. When it does finally arrive back it's got a lot of greasing to do to earn my love and trust. Fine shots of the graffiti art too mate love that sort of subject.
also regarding your sensor with sun strike that's insane, In my day job we shoot Canon stared way back with the 1D MK 2, now on the 1DX I've lost count of how many shots I've taking directly into the sun, at all hours, angles and intensities of the day never ever not even once had an issue like that. I've used and abused those canons for almost 20 years they are almost bullet proof, I suppose it's because I shoot them every day I don't get overly excited about them, but I always know if a job needs to be done without fault or fear I'll always grab the canon kit.
My M10R black paint is awesome. As soon as I knew the M11 was coming with a new sensor and so many new things I jumped on the M10R before they stopped making it. Probably the last great M for a while until the new M gets stable. The M6, well, seems like just an MP with an M6 skin. I didn’t get it either. M9.. Those CCD sensors never really worked right. The 40MP sensor seems to be a special one. Can’t believe they just dumped it like that and now using a 60MP one. The M11 is having a LOT OF problems. Even a year later still people with Orange Light of Death issue and other issues. Famously Hugh Brownstone had to return his. Another OLOD. Im naming it OLOD (orange light of death).
Hello Paul. Just before I started watching your videos sometime ago, I greatly admired your M6. I now have 2 new Leica film bodies and am planning to purchase another new one. I did briefly consider the digital Leicas but somehow seeing how you handled your M6, I am contented with my film bodies. The M11 subsequently developed several firmware problems which has marred the launch of the camera up till now. I do realise digital cameras are essential to some for commercial work. For something as expensive as Leica, film bodies are more reliable.
I love my Ms too. They're well-built, practical, functional and simple. Capable of producing images of exceptional quality. But they're not infallible. And I accept that . Frustrating it may be
I don’t know the specifics of your friend’s situation but as you said, a direct laser hit would have probably fried every other camera’s sensor. Leica’s sensors are purportedly designed to gather photons differently because of their short flange distance and if that led to the problem, it still wouldn’t be a quality issue.
My 2 cents.
Hey Paul - always a delight when you post. I didn't enjoy this as much as your normal shoot, because we didn't follow you around shooting lovely images. However, I really respect the way that this is your space and you can speak from the heart. You knew you'd probably alienate over half of your followers by criticising their 'babies', but you had the guts to do that - Kudos! I agree 100%. I've always thought that Leica is a toy for dentists and surgeons. I have zero interest in even holding one, because unlike every other brand they do not offer a flip out screen. Even for my paid events work, I still shoot over 50% of all my images from the hip - I'd be lost without that screen. Also, I read recently that even though Canon sell more cameras, more professionals use Nikon (that's what I use now), followed closely by Canon, then Sony, then Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus. They finished the article by saying that less than 1% of world professional photographers use Leica - I rest my case!
Thanks Phillip
I agree and appreciate the reluctance to go negative. There are enough "haters" out there. However, you make valid points and there are concerns. I have recently become frustrated by their growing reluctance to work with their dealer network. They are definitely prioritizing and even limiting product availability to boutiques and their own on-line store. I have experienced this personally. Very frustrating! I have been doing business with my AD for a decade or more, who has been doing business with Leica since the 50's. I hope they do get their heads out of their respective behinds and get back to quality AND relationships. Cheers--lt
Thanks Linford
Hi Paul! The price with German salary and social insurance is one thing. But putting an MP into a M6 case is another. It makes the new M6 franken. Leica shouldn't never ever have done this. M6.2 would have been ok. This is my personal opinion. I'm realy not a Leica basher. I own a IIIf, M2, M6, M8.2, M9, M240 and a SL601. But I will never ever get the franken, "new" M6.
It is good to come back to Negative and get that camera back to the hands. I really agree it is far too much to price that high a M6. Because this happened old M7 and M6 prices seems gone up. I have my m6 bought 1998 ( it is almost 25 years old ) and it is not getting older but I have gone older faster than my camera. This is the best Iconic camera after Many other Leica. Next important camera for me is the First PROTOTYPE M8 of M Leica cameras. I really cherish that cameras too in my camera collections.
Some people shoot "many brands" and not the photography. So they are the targets of marketing for Leica. So Leica is doing this for many many decades.
I have seen many Leica owners who have being changing their cameras going to every new up dated version since the M8. They are the ones who want every bells and tricks onto every upgrade. I am laughing if they happen to shoot a photo limited to one ASA and that shooting is limited only to 32 shots they'll forget about getting a cameras in to a hand.
So Leica has given a good opportunity for them to shoot flowers and butterflies in their back gardens by M- Digitalis.
Yes I agree with your points! However having said that, I am glad Leica is limiting the resale value of second hand M6’s by releasing these new versions. Used M6’s were skyrocketing to near M-A and MP models which is insane😅. Yes Leica could have done better by releasing a simple film point and shoot etc for the younger crowd to gain access into Leica, but no - they didn’t.
Hi Teng for some reason I think Leica could care less about the resale of the old M6, they are not doing it for the consumer.
@@PaulCSmithPhotographer Hello Paul! You are correct however their release of the new M6 has a cause/effect on the second hand prices regardless of Leica’s original intention. Leica saw the potential to also grab a piece of the pie the best way they can. Especially when hipsters will easily spend $3-4k on used M6’s. In any business, the motto is 💰 period. If there was no money to be made - they would never release a new M6.
I traded my old M6 for a new MP a few month's ago. It was having issues. The light meter was draining within days even with meticulous turning off between shots and the film rewind was locking after about 20 shots. Here in NZ repairs are difficult so I bit the bullet for a warranty. I totally agree with questioning Leica's reliability with the digital sensor issues. Cheers.
Thanks Bernard, so to clarify it was the old M6 that you had issues with? Not the MP??
@@PaulCSmithPhotographer Hi Paul. Yes it was an M6TTL. Apparently the winder issue is quite common. It is because the M6 winder is on an angle so ergonomically there is some pressure tension when rewinding. After 20+ years it had developed a crack and just locked the film after about 20 shots. Not great if in the middle of a 5 hour hike! With the light meter I think the brand of batteries makes a difference. Varta CR1/3N (came with the MP)works great but not available in NZ. The NZ brand is Sanyo which I didn't have great success with. 2 x SR44 silver are supposed to be a more constant voltage than 2 x LR44 lithium but I got some cheap LR44's from a $2 shop and they lasted the best. Leica lenses probably make more difference than the camera. I only shoot B+W and find the sharpness of Leica and the grain of HP5+ a nice combination.The prime lenses are more limiting than a zoom but that makes you try harder and get a different shot. Inspired as always by your work. Cheers and regards.
Thanks Paul...i was in the market for one of these but will get the Mamiya 6/7.. Still have my Oly M1 which kikass like the M6
I have and use Leica film cameras (rangefinder and SLR) but I just wouldn’t risk the amount of money on any of their digital kit.
I have owned two film Leica cameras (M1 and M6) and I have owned two digital Leica cameras (two M10). Both M10 cameras had defective sensors and spent more time in the repair shop than I spent shooting with them. Glad to see Leica producing the M6 again. It is more likely that I would buy another M6 before I would buy another Leica digital.
That's a shame sorry that you were inconvenienced like so many others.
I agree with you. thank you.
I agree!! Love shooting leicas but my m8 lens release button just broke for no reason!!!! and m9 does do occasional funny stuff with the sensor but I guess it’s the ‘risk’ of shooting old gear. No way I’d fork out 10k for a newer M body. Gfx and others much better quality control and images.
For my taste they went with the wrong camera. A new M6 TTL would be great for me with the big shutter dial and probably some viewfinder options (.58/.85). I started with the original M6 and I struggled so much with the tiny fiddly dial of the camera. I will never by a M6 again or a MP, M-A....
I don't think that they lost their Mojo. For the first time since they made digital cameras they offer market competitive sensors with Q2, SL2, M10R and M11.
1) Leica is a luxury brand. At least they want you to think like that. Live with it.
2) Leica is the only company that still makes 35mm film, lens interchangeable cameras. That costs money. No matter the brand.
3) EVERY sensor will be damaged with the laser. Live with it. Whenever I encounter environment like that, I'm dogging that lasers as best as I can, Matrix style. Course no matter the camera you have on you, you gotta get the job done.
Great Video Paul, thanks for sharing, Paul I agree about old film camera manufacturers, they are trading off a romantic history I have a OM2 and a Broncia ETRS, in my cupboard, which would probably help my channel heaps if i bought some film and used them in my channel! I have built up a collection of canon cameras and lense's which are far superior, all digital but much better! it doesn't mean I am a better photographer! but the camera is much better
I completely agree with you Paul. I've been having the same thoughts. For the price Leica charges for their cameras, I expect the best quality; however, my experience has been the opposite for two of their cameras I own: the M10 monochrome and the M11; both of which I've had sensor issues with.
Thats concerning especially the M11
@@PaulCSmithPhotographer Yes! The M11, when shooting up to bright sky, sometimes generated little very tiny specks of white dots. The Monochrome, if I use the Dehaze in LR all the way up, a straight line showed running right down the center of all images which had a soft surface.
PS: After thoroughly reviewing my analog options I chose the MP over the M6(P).
Lasers fry any sensor unfortunately. Happened to my Sony A6000 couple years ago too on a festival.. didnt hurt as much as the Leica since I hated the Sony anyway.
My 2p worth. The price of the M6 used market is silly currently, mine has doubled in price since I bought it. Leica don’t get any of that market ££ other than in lens sales. I’m a normal guy with a normal sized wallet and I shoot Voigtlander lenses and the only way a Leica lens is hitting my camera is a used one 😂 It’s a cash grab. Release a new M6 and your getting a piece of that used market with the best advertising tool possible. Original M6’s that have lasted 30 years, basically buy this camera and it’ll last you 30 years. For me Kodak are the same bumping up colour film prices. These companies forget that the film resurgence started with Poundland Agfa Vista being shot on charity shop cameras. Now I love shooting Leica cameras, I bought a used M10 now prices are more reasonable (in Leica terms of course) and I love it. I’m a Nikon shooter for work and there’s always been problems with new release cameras across the board, oily aperture blades, corroded sensors to name a couple. I feel for the Q2 guy as I shoot live events sometimes with lasers and it’s an unfortunate and expensive accident. I’m sure he has insurance but obviously the wait time for Leica repair is looonngg. Crappy circumstances for him, hope he gets it sorted soon. In regards to Leica bringing out an affordable camera, I also hope Aston Martin bring out an affordable run around 😂 Brands market their products at there target market, thats just business and why I buy used because new is out of my wallets range. Thanks Paul, awesome work as always.
In Kodak's case, apparently they now have their film production running at full capacity, all shifts operating all days - film production 24x7. No doubt their increased film prices were a direct response to the increased demand, but word is that they are re-investing this money in an effort to further enhance this segment of their business. As this division is continuing to hire new employees, it seems possible that this could be what is happening.
@@VirtualGuth There will always be nuances I'm missing as It's not my area of expertise at all, I'm just flexing my armchair pov 🤣You make a fair point. Increased volume helps to provide the money for investment in infrastructure to provide more volume. Some price increase is to be expected but when I shot a bit of Portra it was £30 for 5 rolls of 36exp now it's double that, sometimes even more. Profit margins would be an interesting metric to judge on their motivations.
Thanks Stuart
cheers Stuart to be fair I've never complained about the sensor as I did have it pointing at the laser show so take it on the chin, thankfully I had it fully insured of more concern is the expected 16 weeks turnaround, but hey all good things and all that.
@@paultaylorphotography9499 Using a kit pro puts it in all sorts of harms way, doubly so for events and thats how it goes, right? I never baby my kit, especially for work. 16 weeks though 😳
Couldn't agree more. Leica is fully embedded to push the luxury brand business. They loose out on photographers like you and me.
Blackstone bought Leica so they want to see return
Analogue I have the M6 ttl secondhand and digitil Nikon is the best for me
The M6 re-release is a gimmick. What is the MP? (Pretty much the M6 without the M6 badge). It's aimed at hipster style youngsters shooting photos of old cars and feet calling themselves "photographers" because they ONLY shoot on film,
On the complete other end of the spectrum....I have an M10 Monochrom, SL2, SL2-S, Q2-Reporter and old M6 and have not had any issues with either. Leica is still great imo of their quality control but you can't win them all...
This is why I pretty much only ever buy Leica stuff used, beyond saving a ton versus new, I can weed out the "monday" units and have a more mature firmware. I love my Ms, but yeah I don't trust new QC at all nor would accept how long it takes them to fix anything these days.
I'm not into brand loyalty. Once there's a Chinese / Japanese made digital/ analogue rangefinder released I'll be on it. That or the FF foveon sensor sigma camera. Leica is now marketed as a luxury brand, but luxury doesn't necessarily mean industrial workhorse product that the m6 embodies. That was Leica of a bygone era...
The re released m6 is obviously to cash in into the inflated second hand price of the m6.
Thanks
Thankyou!
Fan base with money, good I haven't got any.😊 stuck with Canon and similar.
Brilliant agree with you 100 percent, the hype regarding Leica is obscene. I've been using a 150£ camera for a photography project, is it perfect, definitely not, am I concerned if I'll the quality I want (yes every time I use it), but it's a liberating process. The photography community should acknowledge the brilliance of Leica but also the fact it's luxury most people don't need. Thanks for your hard work.
I do agree with you: luxury isn't needed by any body....other wise it would'nt be "luxury". Having said that, not many brands out there have made cameras/lenses that the fortunate may buy for a premium on the used market, use them for months or years even and then sell them for the same amount or even for more. Leica equipment can be seen as an investment which is quite liberating: you can buy a (real) classic M6, shoot with it for a year or two and get your money back selling it (if not more) when you want to try another camera. Yes one has to cough up a premium to get in the game. But try buying a used Nikon/Canon/Fuji and selling it a couple of years down the road: if you do sell it, you'll never get your investment back. But then buying any camera is a luxury: most people have phones with great built in cameras.
@@nicolasfilsdejean agree some good points there. Thanks for responding.
I have to question why anyone would spend the money on such expensive cameras and lenses (even used), when the quality is just as good from much cheaper cameras?
OMD! Take care mate
People don't take pictures with leica they wear The Leica. Same with hasselblad and rolleiflex.
I agree with you somewhat
I don't understand why this M6...I mean I understand from a marketing point of view...they have seen that people are willing to pay 3500 dollars or euros for a 30 years camera...so maybe there will be someone disposed to pay 5500...btw Leica is still producing M-A and M-P, analogue cameras, so I see this M6 just to get as much as possible...about the digital side...I own a q2, I was happier with the q...but in general the digital side of Leica I have to say I don't see a step forward respect other brands. If I have to buy something now, in digital market, I would move towards a fuji...with maybe an old Leica lens...or a Sony with an old Leica lens...
Interesting
This seems like an emotionally motivated video. What other sensor issues are you talking about? The CCD corrosion issue of the M9? No argument there but I don’t see other big issues with their sensors. Just about any camera will be damaged by a laser show if you take a hit.
You mention @ 7:25 that you’re getting bored and that you think you should be able to use them in any circumstances but you are still judging them on their FIRST digital camera that they made 16 years ago. Maybe you should use their newer products and see if they improved them instead of complaining that their first digital camera had flaws. Just a thought…
Hi there, there are other issues I'm aware of with newer models. I have 3 Leica's (M6, M8, ME) all purchased second hand. I don't think I would ever buy a brand new Leica, I was tempted a few years back and glad I decided not to, I just don't have a 100% faith in build quality that would warrant me spending that amount of money. Already in the comments here there have been several cases mentioned of the new M11 failing. Like I state in the video I love Leica and my collection of Leica's, but as a content creator with a small loyal following, I feel it necessary to air my concerns and true feelings, and not to carry on banging the drum without recognising the obvious failings.
Leica's community is most definitely NOT made up mainly of 'younger people.'
Man points camera at lasers and the camera malfunctions..............Well I never!!!!
The mirrorless Q2 EVF requires the sensor to be exposed to incoming light to permit the user to compose, focus, etc. Fortunately for your friend who had a laser point directly at the lens and focus coherent, intense light on the sensor, he wasn’t injured. If he had been using a traditional, non-EVF DSLR with a mirror and pentaprism, he could have been seriously injured. So, another way to look at this inconvenience is that Leica saved his eyesight by sacrificing the sensor. It’s just a sensor- electronics fail all the time, in all sorts of cameras and they can be replaced. The idea that other cameras he used didn’t have the sensor fail could simply be that none of the other camera had a laser point directly at the lens. The camera brand is irrelevant.
The comments here sound exactly like comments about Rolex watches. People are free to spend their money however they want. Hoping Leica will make an “affordable” camera is like hoping Rolex will make an inexpensive watch for everyone. If all you want to do is tell time, get a cheap watch and no worries, there are plenty of alternatives. Some folks have a different idea about things like cameras and watches and value aspects of them above and beyond simple, basic function and are willing to pay for that added value.
Thanks for the insights Kirk, appreciate your point of view. Take care!
I don’t get this. Leica is a luxury product. Its like buying a Porsche, Rolex or a decked out private stock PRS. It’s a camera for CEOs and hedge fund managers. There are plenty of technologically better and relatively more affordable options. You buy Leica cause it makes you feel good.
it's still insanely expensive and unecessary for most working photographers to own so it's bought by "afficionados" of photography not actual professionals unless they are in the 10 percent of earners
Leica build cameras and market them, really successfully! They don't care what you think or know! Rolex is a successful brand. It's mechanical and always runs slower (and faster).It's pure physics. 5~7 cycles per second. A quartz is 27, 760 CPS. Game over and win. Leica are changing but repairs, servicing maintaining NOT a priority. It costs money. A loss. Better a new model every 2 years. The Olympus was a faulty camera, quickly moving back to Leica Mechanical. Magnum tried them! Sure they work for beginners shooting a precious roll every few weeks. Wow! I shot film at about 20 rolls a day! I enjoy your ramblings. Remember though, be careful, Facebook UA-cam can bar you! I've been suspended for a joke on a technicality...
I think Leica’s mojo has for a long time been the beauty and magic advertised of its cameras. Along with the supposed quality of manufacture (clearly not fully justified) and the Leica-look specialness of its lenses, which others can now often match at least in terms of resolution. So, my take away from this is, we deserve better!
I still love and covet the cameras but if you charge 3 or 4 times more than others for similar or less ability then damn well make sure they are flawless. This issue is not new; I treated myself to a 262 Monochrom in 2015 after setting up my business. It was plagued by dust spots from new. I only had one lens, was/am meticulous about care when changing etc but however often I cleaned the sensor it remained, an issue noted by others. I should have sent it back but like an idiot sold it after 2 months for a loss of £1000+
Yet still we keep coming back! For more. Hugh Brownstone’s M11 failed almost immediately, others report the same. Not good enough, Leitz. Not good enough.
Thanks for the further confirmation. The fact now that through these comments I am hearing that even the new M11 has issues is very concerning. I love Leica like I said but when you market a product as 'perfection" and price accordingly it needs to be right!
I was so much going to buy an M11. But hearing some lousy story about them has turned me off. But for some reason, I still follow them with a passion. Maybe one day I will get one if they pick their game up
@@PaulCSmithPhotographer Yes. I haven’t given up on them as I do love the cameras but they are undoubtedly overpriced - esp. the SL and SL2 in comparison to rivals, given they have none of the unique sales points of the rangefinder Ms - and quality control does not seem to be as good as it should be. We can’t expect perfection so no one should advertise a product as such, but sorted fully, for sure.
They M9 sensor issue is long gone and was probably as much Kodak’s fault as Leitz’s, and at least they went out of their way to sort it for a long time, but I heard so much from others about dust in the Monochrom as to think mine wasn’t a gremlin. Nor did it seem fully sorted for later models from what I heard. Also, IIRC, there was a British UA-cam photographer (who seemed to suddenly vanish with no notice, as an aside) who cancelled an order for one model having described concerns over dust, though moving to a ‘lesser’ model. AcQ if my memory serves.
@@kronkite1530 Interesting re the UA-camr. Some strange stuff has been going on since I posted this video, attempted hack on my account and other weird goings on.
@@PaulCSmithPhotographer That is odd. Hopefully just a coincidence (lots of Telegram quoting hijacks on here lately). Unless the Germans are after you!
You might find it ironic but the promotional material for the M6 was shot by professional photographers and we know from the behind the scenes that they did not use Leica cameras. Some of it was in fact done using a Nikon point and shoot. That's distinct from the talent in the material who were showing off their Leicas. We can't rule out that some of the promotional material was made on Leicas because we haven't seen all the behind the scenes footage.
Throw The Leica / Leaker away ... Get a Go Pro ... Lol !! ( I am no Pro Photographer as you know, but I have always believed ... It's not the camera that makes the MAGIC .... It's the person behind it ). Who in their right mind that has done their homework, would spend $10,000.00 + on a camera / company that is failing?
bang on mate, one of my passions is picking up old cameras and trying to get an acceptable frame or two from a roll, I'm loving the challenge. I've always wanted a leica so was finally in a position to do it, I have no regrets re price, I did my homework, fair enough I got careless, actually complacent as I'd shot so many events with lasers in the past without issue I just didn't even give it a thought, and fried the sensor my fault no complaints there I'm just itching to get the thing back, but I'll still keep on trying old tech.
@@paultaylorphotography9499 May I ask which cameras' you shot with so many events with lasers in the past without issue?
@@GeraldMuir hey mate Nikon D3s, and Canon 1DM2 and !Dx obviously none took a direct hit like my Q2, totally my fault.
99% of People buy Leicas (who can afford them) just to show they are a better photographer than anybody else. They try to imitate the old masters and legends but in reality, they mostly take pointless, meaningless images like anybody else and explain they are masterpieces because they were taken by a Leica. Leicas are in the "less is more" category. Less functions more price. More bs about them. "They are made by hand". They are assembled by hand at Leica plants, and the parts are made cheaply by different manufacturers all over the world. So go Leica people show the "a picture is worth a thousand words" images not the cameras.
When I first saw the release I couldn’t help but think it was the most cynical marketing ever. I think they’re just trying to turn people searching for that used unicorn M6 into brand new camera purchasers instead.
Mind you, this is coming from a non Leica shooter so 🤷🏻😂
Let's be honest, Leica trade on build quality & history, and that is a very precarious pedestal to stand on. We know that they are the ultimate expression of Gear Acquisition Syndrome. But is the picture quality proportionately better than a Canon/Sony/Fuji/Nikon when price is considered? Leica hype is a tenuous bubble of nostalgia, feelings and looks. Recalls and build issues could quite easily burst that bubble; then all you have is a very expensive, questionably unreliable replica of bygone era.
Yup
And this is the main reason I will stick with canon. Would love to get a Leica but have been told about the same thing that they have trouble with the senor. I have had canon all my life and never had no problem like that
Leica sensor troubles date back to 2005-2009, there haven't been any sensor issues since then.
I shoot Canon at work all day, used them for almost 20 years they are solid reliable work horses, I can't fault them at all.
@@vincentolaw I know of people having to send their M11 back because of sensor trouble. We all know the m11 doesn't date back that far
So true.
@@ronaldtremmel.mylifeafterc5686 can you be more specific than just "I know of people"?
With our economy, who needs em' ? They've always been for the rich and personally, I've never been that impressed.
$10k for ANY camera is just silly stuff in my opinion. Each to their own though I guess.
Buying any camera is just "silly stuff": almost everyone already carries a built in camera in their phone.........Having said that, the pleasure and motivation one gets using a real camera is what makes us photogs buy cameras. But I do agree that Leica cameras/lenses are over the top expensive and one can go about without buying it....but then so are most cars, houses, boats, bikes, clothes etc.... We live in a consumer society where buying stuff is part of what makes us get up and go to work.... Good or bad??? to each his own right?
true enough Tim it's silly money for sure, in my own case I don't drink, do drugs gamble smoke, mess about with high class lasses etc actually I don't do much other than photography. I've always bought cameras cheap and extortionate it's my thing I work hard and at times stupidly throw my money into gear. Now more so than ever kids up and away, no debt, just time to work and play. Actually re-reading this I really do need to get a fkin life and fast.
@@paultaylorphotography9499 i do hear you but I'm sure there's many countries you are still yet to shoot. Why not put 10k towards that life experience/memory? Geez you could probably travel/shoot 3x different countries for $10k. Just saying.
@@timshields8720 so true mate I've shot in a few countries and planning another couple next year, but to be fair where I live now has everything I need this place is beyond gorgeous for my landscapes and full of a diverse range of people for my street stuff, I'm never short of something to shoot at work or at play. India one day though without doubt cheers XX
@@paultaylorphotography9499 .... each to their own ... 👍
It's funny, I LOVE street photography but I HATE nz street photography. Give me places like Mexico City, Tokyo, etc etc any day of the week. I hope you get your camera back soon. No more dance parties for you sir.
There’s not a single camera with a digital sensor that’s going to survive a direct hit from a strong concert laser. Silly video.
Jimmy None? Hello old friend it's been a while.
Nothing about Leica is logical … as I stare at my M10
Cheers mate!
Just get a Fuji X10 if you cant get a good photograph with that you are in the wrong job. Leica is just man jewellery.
Stick to Photography pal
Wildo Shagga
Leica? Yeah she's alright. But you're only getting 15% more image quality than Japanese glass for 200% more money.