Making sense of Xbox DRM and Physical Media | MVG
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2022
- DRM on Xbox has been in the news recently and if you collect physical Xbox media, can you play games offline? What about Smart Delivery? In this episode we take a closer look and make sense of how everything works. Hopefully this clears up any misconceptions about Xbox DRM.
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#Xbox #DRM #PhysicalDiscs - Ігри
They told everyone they were doing this years ago. Since we did not like the way they did it at first they just stretched it out over time. Thanks for the video
I was actually going to make this exact point. They were gonna do this 9 years ago.
Xbox one launch policies all over again.
@@Abel-Alvarez it was a good policy, used games should absolutely be cracked down on.
@@FlopFan69 why should they? We as a consumer have a right to keep,trade, and/or sell our physical copies. It's also what keeps game stores like GameStop afloat, without that we would lose alot of local businesses for those that still shop for games.
@@Abel-Alvarez
It's not the same... this time they followed through!
Man, Imagine if during the 3 week PSN outage back in the day physical discs also stopped working. Would've somehow been an even bigger disaster lol
That was over 10 years ago, now almost nobody would care about discs not working, because nobody buys them anyway.
@@FlopFan69 I'm primarily a PC gamer these days, but at least in the US I don't see why anyone buys digital versions. They're almost always more expensive, you can't trade them in/lend to a friend, and it's not all tied to one account.
@@startedtech
As an end user in the gaming space (who also owns a gaming PC) I 100% agree with this.
I wish PC didn't abandon physical media. Unfortunately even to get DRM free content you need to be online have an account with GOG and hope your favorites exist there.
@@startedtech convenience. Nobody wants to change a CD to play a different game, especially with quick resume, it completely negates the time save. I wouldn’t get games physically even if they were free and digital was $70. It just isn’t worth it.
@@startedtech also most people don’t want to sell their games or lend to a friend, and it is tied to one account on consoles, just PC has way too many launchers. I play on all 3, and all my games are digital.
This kind of DRM should be illegal. Imagine buying a physical copy of a game, but you cannot play it because the servers are either down or have been sunset. This isn't anti-piracy at this point, it's just anti-consumer.
Console gaming my guy don’t support it because they want you to pay to play with friends
I couldn’t disagree more. Xbox approach to bridging the generations is miles and miles ahead of Playstation. When the servers eventually go down will we have issues playing these games? Sure but we are fast approaching that as a reality across the board. But just imagine 30 years from now (if you really are wanting to use your Series X at that point), this system will be so hacked and home modded that you can put any game you could ever dream of on there.
Personally, I just like that Xbox has made it easy to bring my old and new games together in on convenient place. If you want to not deal with this shit, stick with retro carts, GC, and PC.
@@leeartlee915 Yeah uh, as a 360 modder it aint so easy, i still dont see any backdoors for my og xbox one
@@SUPERBOBESPONJA1000 You actually reminded me of something. Because Xbox one allowed for “developer mode”, I’ve heard that killed the modder scene as there wasn’t the same motivation. Not sure if that is true but that’s what I’ve heard.
Plus not everyone wants to or is able to have their consoles constantly connected to the internet. Must be pretty awful for people in places that don't have good internet coverage.
Really appreciate the look and breakdown on this! Disappointing there's no option to even boot the older content, but I also wonder how many of those games are incomplete enough that they were designed to not boot until they had a big day one update applied?
@@elsibsib7271 you might want to try again without ever connecting to the internet then inserting the disk. Sony is NOT the savior here. If you happen to have a new game that hasn't had your console online in awhile that game isn't going to work. In the apocalypse you better keep your console updated.
Hey ive seen you’re ps2 mod chip install. Good stuff
@@forceshieldjeff You Wrong! On PlayStation from PS3 till now PS5 every Disc Game have minimal firmware Update version to run this game - on disc itself, you don't need goes online to play backwards compatible games from PS4 on PS5, to play old or new games on disc.
@@PaulRudd1941 All 360 games have to be downloaded to be played on Xbox One. Even if you have the 360 disc. So that's why you have to be online to install
@@forceshieldjeff
Where are you getting those infos?
I can play every single physical game I have, completely off-line, on my PS5, even if I have never played it before.
Unless you are talking about games that rely on the connection, like mmos, gas, or Gran Turismo 7.
Also, let's not forget that you need an internet connection in order to perform the Xbox first installation (out of the box, the very first time you switch on the console), and that Microsoft servers have to be live (no maintenance or anything that could keep them down).
That's a big DRM right from the get go.
They need to allow profiles to be made offline and put XboxOne compatibility into the Offline System Updates
Yeah, but that's a one-time deal. I hate it too, but I might be willing to suffer through it up front just once. This BS of not getting any of these games on discs you buy, though, completely shoots down the XSX for me. I'm now glad it was too hard for me to find at retail price.
People bring this up so often but it's literally a non-issue. Every console gets discontinued. Why would you need to activate one in 2050.
@@TrustyBell People want to play old games. I'm playing n64 games now or maybe I shouldn't play those and be forced to stop
@@TrustyBell
You don't get the point.
It's not activation. It's the system installation.
If you reset your console to factory settings and literally erase it, then you will have to go through the same DRM.
In 2050 I would like to have a chance, as a retro gamer, to switch on the console and play. That's not possible with xsx.
DRM is, was and always has been a pain for honest people who buy software.
Always was.
And it has never ever stopped piracy. Not even a bit.
@@ronmes2427 DRM does nothing but inconvenience paying customers.
Not only that, but it also ensures all these new consoles will become paperweights after online services shutdown, even if they're still fully functional. More e-waste, it's disgusting.
I don't see the physical disc issue as being DRM at all its simply that the 2nd versions don't exist on the disc probably mostly due to space. So Microsoft saving people money to where they didnt need to buy multiple copys of the same game anymore for the 2 different versions. Is now viewed as bad cause one of those versions needs to be installed first to use offline. Ha people will bitch about anything now adays. Now the digital games not working offline thats definitely DRM but that's easily fixed for the most part with home setting
This is EXACTLY WHY you should jailbreak and mod consoles once it reaches the end of official support.
Especially if you want to preserve your gaming library.
Xbox one and later models can't be modded from what I know
@@gsifdgsgs Yet
@@gsifdgsgs
Give it time.
Plenty of consoles were considered "unhackable" at one point or another.
Remember when Sony bragged about the PS3 being unmoddable?
Yeah, good times.
@@megacide84 yeah sure. Good luck my man. The Xbox one has some pretty security.
@@ransacked It does, for now. Now all we have is time.
This is a great reminder how we've gone from owning a copy, to having just the license to a copy.
Exactly games are not yours anymore. I wonder if the same happens with the PS5.
@JC Denton Other guy gets away with that, therefore it's ok?
It was always "just the license". Physical media just makes it less obvious (and less enforceable).
@JC Denton That isn't 100% true. Sony fixed the CBOMB problem for PS4 in an update a few months ago, meaning that discs can continue to be played offline even if the clock battery dies, and the PS5 doesn't seem to have that issue at all. Digital might be a different story, I don't pay much attention to the digital marketplaces.
We've never owned our copies of ANY Microsoft product. We've always been licensing their software since Microsoft invented the EULA in the 90s.
My theory on Balan is that both versions were able to to be stored on the disc, given its 15Gb install size. This might sound oversimplified but I’d bet the smaller the size listed on the packaging, the higher the chances of the game being offline ready, requiring no “smart delivery” at all.
Microsoft’s decision to opt for this technique has to do with an inability to store both versions on a single blu ray, and to reduce printing multiple versions of the same game while delivering the best experience possible to customers.
I thought the same.
Sony puts out multiple versions. There’s legitimately no reason why MS can’t do the same.
@@gimphandjeff I mean thats on the publisher not MS. The publishers prefer to save on printing and pressing by only releasing one version and letting the servers do the rest.
@@RamblyBear it's the confusing branding, people would confuse xbox one x, series x, series s etc. so they just put out one box with a green Xbox logo
@@vrubayka But then people would confuse THAT with the original Xbox, even if they look nothing alike. Never underestimate people's ability to ignore obvious facts.
Great to see a new MVG! Hope ur moving house goes smoothly, horrible experience!
hate moving bro
Mwah mwah mwawwwwww
Helloooooooooooo
Movings the worst!
moving brah make osw kids cry brah!
Ever since I found out it’s basically pointless to buy physical games on Xbox now, I’ve been trying to justify why I still do it. I can’t bring myself to buy everything digital. I love seeing them build up on a shelf and it’s actually something I can hold
literally the same for me😢
The only reason I can think to buy Xbox Discs for Series X is because these factory made discs will degrade and eventually have disc rot much slower than home burnt discs and eventually could be ripped later on and ran on emulators in 20 years or so… potentially 😅
So a home burnt disc is like 10-20 year life span, these officially Xbox discs are 50+ year lifespan discs
Also you can sell physical copies
So basically, you hate convenience.
@@but_iWantedTo_speakGerman nobody will be running discs on emulators lmao, when was the last time you saw a PC with a disc drive? Let. Physical. Die.
The sad thing is, even if the game's DRM issue disappears. the console's DRM will still be there. Each Xbox One and Series X console needs to be online for both the initial setup AND to set up a user profile, and unless Microsoft has the common decency to put out a firmware update to fix it, we are at risk of losing a depressingly large chunk of 8th gen console gaming to the passage of time.
its ok, the "pirates" will take care of us, they already did with ps3, :D
@@Gonzalo_105 let’s hope so; they haven’t exactly had much success so far, anyway...
Everything on the xbox one is on PC anyway so there's nothing that gets left behind really
@@arcticowl1091 with the exception of Forza Motorsport 5,6, horizon 2, Rare Replay, and the Dead rising 3 ultra DLC that's exclusive to Xbox one for some reason.
@@Abel-Alvarez None of them are going to be exclusive for long. They will eventually migrate to PC
From a games preservation perspective I assume that the Smart Delivery discs will at least play offline on an XBOX One, however. It would have been interesting to see that confirmed in the video - I was disappointed that it wasn't even mentioned.
I was also wondering this
Yes I agree. Another stone unturned...
Curiosity got the best of me and I took my old Xbox one off line and popped in a new game I had just recently bought that was a smart delivery. It installed and worked perfectly. I’ll try it on my series x later and see if works on there.
@@tylerbrown8357 Thanks for testing it out for us! On the basis of MVG's "lowest common denominator" comments it makes sense that disc-based Smart Delivery games should work offline on XBOX One, but nice to have the suspicions confirmed.
Works with RE Village at least, when I moved out I did not had internet, I installed it and I was able to play it completely
The scariest part about digital gaming is how with a click of their fingers, a corporation can revoke access to the games you've purchased.
You should be even more scared of how much control they have over the console you have brought outright, they can brick your console and stop it functioning remotely, both ps5 and Xbox one can do this
Microsoft already does this with some games on their storefront. Especially if you're on PC, those games will get de-listed in a few years (Looking at you Forza). If you didn't purchase the game or all of the game's DLC that goes with it, then you're SOL pretty much. Not unless if you have a buddy's account with the complete game, or get gouged by some shady CD key site you could still get the full game.
Wait till the day the cancel police get hold of a video game scene and demand the manufacturer disable the game... I'm waiting for that day to come, it already happened with Google and apple apps... Games just haven't seen their target yet.
It doesn't matter if it's a physical copy or digital, you don't actually own your games nowdays. (They're still gonna increase the price of the games tho...)
@@volvo09 Two things worry me. That a console manufacturer or game distribution platform could take exception at something you posted online and permanently ban your account under off-site behaviour in their terms of service, locking you out of all the content you have purchased. The second is if the state implements social credit, where the state compels a console manufacturer or game distribution platform to cut off your service because your score has dipped below a required amount to be allowed to play video games and you can only pay again once you improve your score.
The problem with modern physical media on all the modern consoles is what are you preserving? Without the connection to live/psn/nintendo in most cases you’re just getting the buggy 1.0 release with no patches. Like can you imagine playing something like animal crossing with the release build compared to the 2.0 update.
For proper preservation of all these consoles its gonna be down to the pirates. All these huge companies are going to want you just to consume new product and not enjoy the old stuff.
Edit: This said as a moron who always buys physical switch games still
I would argue that some thing is better then no thing. Also, aren't switch games basically SD cards, wouldn't it be possible to install update on them? Really curious.
@@hikkamorii I imagine there’s no way to rewrite them; probably significantly more expensive and not worth the hassle for Nintendo to make them rewritable - what if something goes wrong while updating and the cartridge is bricked? What if someone figures out how to reflash cheap games with more expensive ones and sell undetectable counterfeits with just a label swap?
@@henryrichard7619 Fair point. If I were to design those carts, I'd put WO memory there that has game signature, and some sort of certificate, that would be tied to a specific game.
That's the new world. We have to get used to it unfortunately.
The master press of the disc is by law required to contain a fully playable game. If someone is serious about it, and the version on the disc is actually unplayeable, they could take the publisher of animal crossing to court.
Microsoft just silently released a huge update that changes the way DRM on Xbox One's work.
Would love to see a video update that explores the new update changes.
Yup it's about time this came to light on how without internet the Xbox One and Series consoles are pretty much paper weight even the discs don't usually hold a playable version of games
wow, did you not actually watch the video - your post is not even relevant to the conversation. Please fud elsewhere. "it finally game to light" his other video, even if minforming in some ways, already talked about this and there are articles - what about this video is "its about time".
Anyway, if you buy next gen discs and play them on your next gen xbox, your discs are not "pretty much paper weight" any more or less than they are on PS5.
It would have been even better if Microsoft used triple layer blu rays for their smart delivery games (like Sony does for the PS5 games), that way ensuring that most games at least contains both versions on the disc. Afaik know, they have not yet engineered that. Suggesting by the fact that the console still uses last gen blu ray drives (which struggled reading triple layer blu rays), we're probably never going to see it. Hence why GTA 5 on the Series X comes on two discs.
@@xBINARYGODx LMAO I think you need to do some more research
For the future I will try to buy as often as possible only Game of the Year editions of games, because that way I have ensured that I got the game plus all dlcs and patches on a physical media. I know, I narrow the games down to a handful one, but I have tons of old games to play anyway.
A handful of great games though!
This has really been my mindset lately. Not only do you get the FULL game, you also get it at a cheaper price with patches included.
My only gripe is that publishers in recent years have already been playing into this mentality by releasing sub-par "collectors" or "definitive" editions, which still forces us to have to weed through the bullsh* a bit.
Don't forget that some GOTY comes with downloadable codes dor content
Not every "modern" game of the year edtion title, after 360 to current era game, will include all DLCs on a single physical media disc. You have to do thorough research on what game contains such DLCs in a single physical media disc. By doing so, I recommend first watching users like PopNGames, who do unboxing of physical media games, to see whether you're getting your money's worth or its a scam by the publishers & developers. One example that a lot of Xbox One users don't know is Dead Island: Definitive Edition Xbox One version has all 3 games on a single disc ; whereas the PS4 version only has 2 games and the voucher code included. Its a bit rare and unknown as that was an overhyped game in 360 era. Theres more examples ; though, you do have to do research on what game you want own physically with all content on a single disc or cartridge. Gone are days of you buy it day one and its complete with cheat codes, secrets and more.
Don't count on it. I recently bought the so called 'complete edition' of Metro Exodus on PS5 and it just came with a shitty downloadcode of the DLC. Oddly enough the Xbox One version of this game does come with an extra disc for the DLC.
Just pirate it on PC my bruda, consoles are dying PC and piracy is the future of gaming.
I actually have a pretty simple theory on why Balan in particular didn't need an online check for Smart Delivery: The file size. Iirc, Blu-ray discs hold about 50 GB. Games like REVIII and Assassin's Creed had over 30 GB installs, meaning there was likely only room on the disc for the Xbox One version, and thus the Series X version would need to download to play. Balan on the other hand was a little over 15 GB, which likely means the devs were able to fit both the One and Series versions of the game on a single disc, eliminating the need for a download at all.
That brings into question: why not do what Sony does and print next gen games on UHD Blu-rays, which have 66-100 GB of space? The only issue I can see is if the consoles just aren't equipped to read games from the higher capacity discs, or in the XB1 VCR's case, can't read the high capacity discs at all.
@@ShougHell If I had to guess, it's likely what you said, maintaining compatibility with the VCR model Xbox One, it could also just be the push to keep cost down, kind of like how early Switch bundles only had the game with the smallest file size on the cartridge. I'd like to hope that's not the case, though.
@@HybridAngelZero Even with that, I think they can try transitioning to UHD discs for only Series X exclusive releases and not Smart Delivery titles since they wouldn't have to worry about compatiblity with older models.
Stop making sense. This is a video on how MS is evil, not the logic behind why smart delivery is handled the way it is.
Funny thing is, imagine the outrage if they put the Series X version on an Xbox One disc and required a download for Xbox One!
My take on it is that ‘smart delivery’ should be smarter. Since XSX had backwards compatibility if user does not have the internet the game should install what it has on disc, it should be playable, but as soon as connection is restore user should get information that update is available.
I like to avoid huge downloads wherever possible by purchasing the disc versions of games. I was annoyed to find that most Xbox smart delivery discs trigger a full download of the "Optimised for Series S|X" version anyway. So for my first full year as a Series X owner I feel like the discs are just coasters -- irritating physical keys -- and I may as well have bought digitally.
All depends on what platform your playing them on id assume will they work fine if your running it on the console that has that virsion on the disc or will it still not work
@The tricky tick no, they did not - smart delivery redownloading a bunch of stuff doesn't happen on next gen games. Maybe YOU should know what the OP is talking about, the replier, and the tech involved.
If you have a next gen version, smart delivery is not going to matter in terms of DRM (but updates of various kinds can, on either console).
@@xBINARYGODxerm Microsoft sells Smart Delivery as you just need to buy one version of game across the generations. Series X games that does not have a Xbox One version does not fall under that banner.
I get what you're saying, but the best possible thing is not for smart delivery discs to go extinct. Instead, it's for smart delivery discs to work on either console while completely offline. I understand the implications of this (storage space and such), but it _would_ be the best possible outcome.
If posible it would have being better to give the option of playing the xbone version offline or download the series x version
Should have two different products, one disc for the Xbox One version and another for the Series X. Simple like that, no confusion and keeping both preserved.
So happy to see a new video from MVG! I hope that your move went well.
All the years dealing with drm crap on PC. I learned that drm is guaranteed to mess you over sooner or later.
I don't know how many I pirated cause of that drm crap. N the game ran better. Go figure
We Need Offline FULL GAMES On The Disk 🔥🔥🔥
There are two types of Smart Delivery discs. The disc with the Series X logo on the top right can be installed and played offline. The discs which don't have the logo will contain the Xbox One version and thus require the Online check.
Good hint.
Still an official list would be nice to have!
This is not true as Resident Evil Village has the logo on the case
@@ChrisWTube 0:45 the version shown here does not include the logo in the top right corner of the case.
So the above theory sounds plausible given the footage from this video...
However there might be other indicators on non US versions of the games?
@@overlordalfredo my village case has the logo sticker but the XboxOne version is on the disc
@@ChrisWTube what version of the game do you have (region, release, edition)?
Very Informative always love watching these
Thanks for another great video! The new house seems to be coming along nicely.
Another great monday courtesy of MvG!!
As a Balanhead, I am happy that I will be able to Balan Wonderworld for years to come.. #BalanSweep
Brilliant video!
I love your DRM videos, very important topic to cover!
Brilliant video, I am so glad you made this.
This is a good reason why I still have my XBOX 360 and my OG Xbox around. Of course, there are many, many of games that are not "backward compatible". The thing that I think that stinks is if you put your 360 or OG Xbox game disc into the Series X, it downloads that game from the Xbox servers instead of playing from the disc itself. Sure, it's much faster in the long run, but this is how you know the game is always installed rather than being read from disc.
However, one thing I have noticed is some games run FAR better on Series X than on 360 (or OG Xbox). Example: Rainbow Six Vegas 2 runs like a dream on Series X due to processing power and high speed storage access. On 360 and even the Xbox One, it would drop frames and slow down dramatically when action would heat up. But with the Series X, it runs smoothly like it was programmed to do 14+ years ago. The AI also seems so benefit from the processing boost. It's quite amazing really because it's almost like having a "remaster" of a game at least behaviorally.
Yeah, Microsoft doesn’t do backwards compatibility, they do backwards compatibility as a service. Their consoles have always required downloads to run old games. And I think the One and Series both download full copies wrapped in emulation layers, only using the disc for authentication. Microsoft’s consoles cannot do backwards compatibility on their own.
That's because Xbox, Xbox 360 and Xbox One games are in an emulation "wrapper". These games will NOT runn directly off the discs because the game's code simply isn't written to run on a Series X|S. Each game is in an emulation wrapper, that wrapper being a software version of the original hardware and OS.
So think of it as this...for simplicity, say we're talking an Xbox 360 game.
The game is running on an Xbox 360 OS. That OS is running on an Xbox 360, but that 360 is actually the hardware written as a piece of software which is modified to run on the Series X. the game thinks its running on a real Xbox 360, but in reality, its running on an Xbox 360 created in software. The game doesn't know the difference, but the game's code itself is NEVER modified.
When you insert a 360 disc, it needs to download the original game which is wrapped in the Xbox 360 OS. And all that is wrapped in the Xbox 360 hardware written in software allowing it to run on the Series X|S.
I'll use Banjo-Kazooie as an example.
Keep in mind, on the original Nintendo 64 cartridge, Banjo-Kazooie was 16MB.
When the game was ported to Xbox 360 Arcade in 2008, it was 48MB.
Since the Xbox 360 version of the game on a Series X|S runs in Xbox 360 backwards compatibility, the game (and it's now 4k assets as of 2019), makes the game balloon in size to 586MB!
Why? Besides the 4k asset upgrade in 2019, the rest of that file size is literally the rest of the game, as well as the Xbox 360 OS as well as the Xbox 360 "hardware" written in software (aka that previously mentioned Xbox 360 wrapper). When you download an Xbox 360 game, you are essentially downloading Xbox 360 hardware written and modified for that particular game, so it can run on a Series X|S!
Honestly, this is my biggest disappointment with Xbox. If they just turned off the offline check for the Smart Delivery games, so at the very least you could install the Xbox One version offline; that would make this sting a lot less.
The Xbox One version isn’t runnable without a Xbox Series patch, that’s why they ask to go online
@@lucaslg26 Well why not is the question. Xbox Series X is fully backwards compatible with Xbox One games so you would think it should be able to run Xbox One code like PS5 running PS4 games. As an example some people played the PS4 Pro version of Elden Ring on PS5 to get the only locked 60 fps version. A PS4 copy of Elden Ring works on PS5 without any patches.
@@lucaslg26 they can be ran without a patch but they do need a brief online check to boot the game for the first time after installation. The need for this check still does need removing by Xbox though.
@@weaverquest Xbox uses a totally different approach to do backwards compatibility. Sony adapts the PS5 hardware(clocks/core count) to match PS4/Pro, that’s why they need a super binned CPU/GPU. Xbox does that differently, they do a totally different binary built specifically for Xbox One/X/SS/SX hardware, they never run the targeted binary of a different console, thats why you can’t run the “Xbox One” version in X/SS/SX consoles.
@@lucaslg26 well you can actually run the normal Xbox One code in the series X with a workaround : ua-cam.com/video/jU4qu-Vyy4k/v-deo.html
So it seems more like a DRM online check than a backwards compatibility Patch
This clarifies several things to me, thank you very much.
Thank you very much. This video has helped me understand what to look for in disc based games that I purchase for archival purposes.
So people forgetting that to even setup your console you need online connectivity are surprised this stuff happens?
I tested Yakuza 7 and Immortals Fenyx Rising and both titles worked despite being smart delivery titles.
Unfortunately, those games are Yakuza 7 and Immortals Fenyx Rising.
Do either of them have that little Series X sticker on the top right of the case?
@@roberte2945 Yakuza 7 is a good game. It's not for everyone but it's really good
@@roberte2945 What do you mean? I've heard good things about both of those games.
Scarlet Nexus and Super Monkey Ball Banana Mania also do this and they use Smart Delivery. I don’t know why developers can’t just put an “Xbox Series X requires content download” disclaimer, like Metro Exodus Gold Edition, or even put just a little bit of the Series X version, if possible, on the disc, if they’re gonna go the download route.
Excellent video, as always. Where did you get the Quake t-shirt, mate?
This vid is SOOOO helpful!!!! Thanks MVG!!! ❤️
This is also surprisingly important if you don't have a stable internet connection to your living room. A few years back, I was connecting my consoles to my mobile hotspot every time I needed an update. Luckely, I operated a Wii U back then, and these downloads aren't too big... but my landlord never fixed the internet for as long as I was there
Or if your internet is complete garbage like mine only getting 700KB a second of download speed. The sizes of these games nowadays take literally a day if not more. Wish internet companies would quit messing around with rural areas, only disadvantage of living in a rural area tbh imo. But yknow physical copies were great because no internet required.
File sizes today not sure if devs are just being lazy or it’s just cause of how tech is moving but 300GB for one game is ridiculous. Not all games are like this but Jesus Christ.
After everyone and their cats and dogs sang their praises about Smart Delivery, who would have thought that it has such a huge drawback? Not me, that's for sure. Well, here we have just another reason why having the full fat game in physical media is so important, especially for preservation purposes.
Good thing most people will generally have them installed already before server issues happen.
@@De1usionsofGrandeurthe Console can fail and you lost all of it. blu ray discs are made to be resilient and will outlast the consoles they made for many decades after, after that you cant use them even if you bought another console to replace your broken one
Thanks for showing The Quarry box, didn't know about that game, pre-ordered :)
Great video! Thanks for this!
I did the home xbox thing years ago when I got my Xbox one.
Though I have become worried about my physical media becoming paper weights.
I have however tested a few games on the Xbox one console and they don't require Internet to run. Due to it being native for the hardware, not backwards compatible like on the series X.
I used Yakuza like a dragon for that test, due to it making it very clear it needs a network connection.
It installed and worked fine on the one X, but you could definitely tell it needed a few patches.
So basically I need to keep the One X as backup to play my old games once the servers are offline.
All DRM ever ends up doing is fucking over the end user. My Switch Lite is practically useless on trips, if I can't get a good wifi signal.
Imagine not having a phone with unlimited data
Imagine buying something that doesn't work unless you jump through endless hoops.
@@FlopFan69 imagine buying Nintendo games when you can get them free.
Yeah! Finding this out the hard way is so aggravating. Even with having a physical cartridge in the switch, it NEEDS to connect to the internet to verify you're not a filthy scum thief. Guess what the airport wifi won't let you connect! Grrrr
Is that because it's not your primary console?
thanks for clearing that up for us!
Great explanation. Thanks so much
Is that the UWP port of Diablo on your Xbox at 3:00? Always wondered how that runs.
Honestly, I’d like to see more Xbox homebrew in the future.
One important key point from this video other than the game installation tests is that "Set your console as a home console" only works for games that are already installed, it is a "post installation" solution, but it does not help at all during the installation process, i see a lot of people online confused about that. Its a shame that Xbox One games can't be installed without the internet, PS4 discs can be installed on PS5 just fine offline. Once every game is a Series X game, game collecting will be just fine on the Series X, lets hope that comes soon.
Thanks for the video MVG, its basically the same video you did at the start of the generation but nobody wanted to listen, so its nice you try once again to explain to people this problems, only thing i would have liked is for you to show a comparisson of the same process on the PS5 or Switch, because a lot of people think these issues happen with all consoles.
Thank you for sharing. This is very helpful as I am one that prefers physical disc over digital.
This is a good video. Really puts new games into perspective. I remember getting the spyro trilogy on ps4 and finding out only spyro 1 is available on disk and 2/3 are download only.
Also. I know you were trying to block out your gamertag and email and im not sure if your aware but there is a box in the settings that hides your email address could use that if you wanted less editing in the future.
The Nintendo Switch version of Spyro Reignited Trilogy has it worse; Only partial data for Spyro 1 exists and Spyro 2 and 3 are unplayable.
They literally sold what could pass off as a kiosk demo!
Ever since the original Xbox (if not sooner... Dreamcast) people have been saying consoles are just "dumbed down" computers. Given that even the PS2 had USB ports, any of us should have the option do download patches, DLC, etc. to a thumb drive to plug into our consoles like the golden era of PC games, instead of relying on the oppressive, often legally grey always-online connectivity. This video is a clear example of how in the modern age, even buying physical media means WE DON'T OWN OUR GAMES. With rare exception, we only own chunks of our games, and our ability to play them is up to the whims of uncaring, greedy networked gods. Yeah, I bought a Series S, but my faith in this (admittedly wonderful) shoebox is actually in the hackers, modders, and pirates that will eventually give me the true untethered gaming experience we all deserve.
So you're complaining about DRM while bragging that you're going to pirate games, which is the reason DRM exists in the first place... 🤔
@@Lockieez I should have clarified that "eventually" meant "after the console's supported life cycle", when it's been officially abandoned and that DRM would make it otherwise impossible to play the games. Much like what MVG constantly talks about doing on this channel.
Buying physical games back than was better because on the wii or ds you could dump the games easier
The NES was literally originally called the Family *COMPUTER,* so this has been with us since practically the beginning.
@@Lockieez as if drm could stop piracy the only thing it does is creating problems for people who actually buy the game
I wish Xbox would manufacture Smart Delivery discs in both Xbox Series X, and Xbox One forms. The Series X disc would have that console's version game data on it, to allow the Series X version to be installed and played offline, but also provide the Smart Delivery option to allow an Xbox One to download it's version of the game. Then, it would provide the best of both options. I like the idea of Smart Delivery, but this issue presents too much of a problem for the longevity of the games and consoles.
There should be a super like button for your videos. Once again an amazing video
Really intresting video. Thanks
On a somewhat related note I've been looking into Nintendo Switch carts that have all the DLC and patches on the newer prints of carts, such as Mario Tennis Aces. I'll hold off buying Mario Strikers physically for at least a year so it is more likely to contain the full game on cart.
Came to the comments just to mention the Switch. With the exception of a few "download required" Capcom games that rather irritatingly have "full" cartridge versions in other regions (NTSC-J, usually) if I buy a Switch cartridge, I know I can play that game. Now. Ten years from now. It will "just work". That's also why I have not and will not be bothering with a PS5/"Series" - I'm not going to pay four or five hundred dollars for a console and then pay $60 for a "license" to download a game, as long as the developer/publisher/Microsoft/Sony deem it "allowed". Dodge me with that nonsense.
Since the Switch has version matching, I wonder how popular it will be in the future to have "upgrade parties", where a bunch of people get together to download patches off other peoples consoles, even for games they may not have carts for
The Pokémon Sword and Shield + Expansion Pass carts have been a hot investment for that very reason of having everything on the physical item.
This online drm really isn't justified. As far as I know the xbox one/ series x/s haven't been cracked for softmodding so there probably isn't much piracy going on anyway also there are still a lot of places in the world with limited or no internet access so all they are doing is scaring away the paying customers
@JC Denton I get what you are saying but even America and and other "developed", countries have areas with limited Internet. Also data caps are a thing.
@JC Denton Jeez, tell me you don't live in a rural area without telling me you don't. Some ISPs have caps. Others, like if you can't get internet from a mainstream ISP, you often have to go with DSL or dialup. If you've never dealt with DSL providers then consider yourself lucky; when I had 20mbps down with Spectrum, my best friend who could only get Windstream had 5mbps. This was about 5 years ago. Now, I have 120mbps, while he has something around 40.
@JC Denton ua-cam.com/video/qeP3brO8shY/v-deo.html
And scaring away the paying customers _attracts_ piracy.
@JC Denton Or better yet. Buy a different console. Like a PlayStation which doesn't use such a draconian approach to DRM.
I feel like a child on the Christmas morning everytime I see a new MVG video in my feed
Loving the outro metal music!
03:36 Is that a retail mode install of DevilutionX I see on your console? Neat.
07:02 some other neat homebrew there as well I see. PPSSPP, OpenLara, Retroarch, etc.
there's ways to install retroarch etc without dev mode. quick google should turn up some results.
this is absolutely unreal, I've been in a situation where I've been offline from psn for 3 months and I was able to keep playing all of my digital and ps plus game no problem on PS5 as well
Sony does what Microsoft don't?
you can play offline for months on Xbox too - what are you even talking about? either the video contains misinformation I missed, you're just a FUDing baby who pathetically fanboys for a company or pile of plastic and metal.
Glad you are covering this. Some people can only game for an hour or so and don't want to waste that time waiting for game install or update patches
@JC Denton When first turning on a new Xbox you must connect it to the internet then wait for it to download an update. This can't be skipped even for offline games. Just want to it start and not wait. Not everyone has fast internet and shouldn't have to pay for fast internet just so their Xbox can update
Thanks for this video!
It's the single player games that really annoy me. Why in any scenario would I need to be online to play a game like Prey or Hellblade? DRM sucks and Microsoft has to implement a fix. I have quite a large collection of Xbox games that are compatible on Series X. Which becomes irrelevant the moment I have no internet connection.
This is definitely very interesting. I've heard that the current generation of Xbox always had the online requirement, even after the E3 2013 fiasco. This also gets me interested in the Xbox One and Xbox 360. I heard that digital Xbox 360 games didn't work with the outage which is so weird, and I really wanna know what happened there. Xbox One is also a case I wanna know about, because if the Xbox One games didn't work without internet on Series X, I wonder if they do work off the disc on the One. Great videos as always, MVG!
XboxOne games install and run on an XboxOne while offline, regarding the game is a normal single player offline game
I don't know how widespread the outage was, but it passed me by without knowing. I was playing Cyberpunk, I have the disc, but I was playing the XSX version through Smart Delivery. It still requires the disc check even though the XSX version is a digital download. But I played all through that outage without a problem.
@@ChrisWTube However, if your xbox is connected to the internet while the outage happens, you can't even fucking touch your digital library.
RGH 360 owner here. Digital 360 games are just a big compressed file and they do work without Live.
360 physical or digital games, do NOT have DRM. That was on the optical disc drive and the NAND chip which blocked unassigned code from running. If you "hack" both, the console is pratically a devkit, DRM free.
The Xbox One and Series consoles however are using a much more abusive DRM system that not even hackers quite understand yet. If an outage can turn your Xbox consoles into temporary bricks then imagine a full shutdown. I have a feeling that once the Xbox One is abandoned we will hear a lot of complaints about game preservation.
@@Manic_Panic Or not, depending on how MS decides to handle the Xbox One abandonment. A previous example could be how they handled the discontinuation of Windows Phone 7.x: When the various services were shut down, Microsoft released an update removing the time limit on the developer unlock, allowing developers to keep their phone unlocked forever.
YES!!!, finally a video about this very issue. Thank you MVG
thanks for the video very helpful just got a series x
It's disheartening that Smart Delivery games contain the original Xbox One version on the disk - I'd rather preserve the superior version!
It does mean that people who own an Xbox One will have it working out of the box with no internet access required. Some games do do SmartDelivery without requiring a download, though I think that might require them to use an Xbox One compatible disc-format (which limits accessible storage).
Yeah, this more of a version on disc issue, not a DRM issue. The whole video is mischaracterized. The new discs are Series X exclusive, not "DRM free". Ideally, they'd put Series X on disc and have a download for Xbox One. However, I am assuming they are doing it this way because there are far more Xbox Ones out there than Series X. Also, most discs can't hold multiple versions of a 50 GB game, so they are doing the most logical thing. It's just not ideal for Series X owners.
Thankfully there are exceptions like Yakuza: Like a Dragon, Immortals Fenyx Rising, Scarlet Nexus, and Super Monkey Ball: Banana Mania, which all contain both versions on the disc; and that’s how it should be done, or the Cross-Gen multi-disc install route, in the case of Tales of Arise, which didn’t use Smart Delivery.
@@TheRandomboy47 Problem with having both versions on the same disc is that it limits you to how much data you can fit on an Xbox One disc
@@sundhaug92 true, but I think it would be more convenient if smart delivery games with bigger file sizes could be shipped on multiple discs with both versions, even if that would require shipping each copy with 3+ discs, but of course money talks, so that’s never gonna happen.
I'm less concerned with an online check during installation, and more concerned whether the game will run during an internet outage on my Home Xbox. Which most of them will. Microsoft still fully supports every Xbox 360 game that uses standard Xbox Live matchmaking for online play, all the way back to the 360 launch titles (the only ones you can't play online used custom servers). Microsoft still lets you download every digitally-purchased game, again all the way back to the first 360 digital titles, perhaps with a few oddball exceptions due to rights issues (but even then it's typical that you can't buy it, but can still download it). So we're coming up on 17 years and counting of Microsoft mostly doing it right. So maybe they'll change their tune at some point, who knows, but for 16+ years I've been entirely satisfied with their approach. In a world with media expanding faster than I can even keep track of it, control over my media collection just isn't a big deal for me anymore. I benefit more from me reducing the clutter of ever-expanding physical media collections, going all the way back to the 1979 Mattel Intellivision, than I do from greater control over my media. Hell, I've lost access to, or control over, more games due to lost/damaged cartridges/discs than I have from digital rights issues!
Forza Horizon 5 is an unfortunate example; If you can't log in, you will be forced into a Fallback Playlist, which is a generic, computer generated playlist with boring rewards such as credits, Wheelspins, and Super Wheelspins. In addition, there is an online check with your purchased DLC; if you enter the Fallback Playlist, you will be locked out from your DLC. This explains why your car defaults to the Ford Bronco upon logging in if you were using a DLC car on your last session. However, if you set up a home in any expansion as your new home, then your save file is doomed if you cannot connect online, as you'll be locked out of the expansions.
This is an odd decision, as previous Forza Horizon games never locked you out of Purchased DLC if you cannot connect online.
@@X2011racer Oh, that's quite interesting. Thank you for sharing all that. I don't generally buy Forza Horizon DLC until years later, and even then only when it goes on super duper sale, so it doesn't affect me yet, but some day it would so I hope they patch out that behaviour.
Really great video sir! Very informative, one question though is the Control Definitive edition actually on the Xbox one disc? Never heard that before now
Great video. I have a lot of physical Xbone games and it's becoming scarce as shops no longer carry or minimize selling Xbox games unless it's the annual sports games and Elden Ring.
I posted a similar question on the Xbox One reddit awhile ago about Xbox One games that were fully on disc and playable without updates. I wanted to start a list for physical collections but the post was removed because it somehow violated their rules 🙄
It's kinda sad the guy before Phil told the world Xbox would have DRM and he got so much hate online, Phil tells people about DRM and he's somehow treated as a hero it's crazy
I hate DRM and I have both PS/Xbox/Switch
Gamers nowadays don't know shit. Plus there's a lot of fanboism out there. Literally every Xbox answer's twitter post is "PLAYSTATION BETTER" followed by an answer saying "Ratio + L". Those are hints they're just kids therefore the won't complain about things they don't know. "What's DRM? Destiny Re-Mastered?"
@@yaago the issue is it's not children doing that it's 30/40 year old men
@JC Denton < Xbox fanboys like this clown here have something called an inferiority complex.
Great video from a great guy.
Excellent video! Very informative. The only question I have left is what would happen if you use one of the smart delivery discs with the Xbox one version on an actual Xbox one. Would it require an internet check or would it just work?
A couple of questions I was wondering about after watching this. Does the PS5 allow you to play your PS4 discs without any online check?
If I got an old Xbox one for playing Xbox one games would it also require an online check when playing Xbox one games?
I think it's a very anti consumer practice. You should be allowed to play the Xbox one version of each Xbox one game without any online checks with maybe a little pop up telling you you're playing the Xbox one version until you connect online. Locking you out of playing a game that really should work offline should never happen. The Xbox so called smart delivery isn't smart. It is very anti consumer indeed.
Zero online checks for ps4 games on PS5, you get the disc; install the game and play, easy, all of this while being completely offline.
@@jingx3336 If Sony can do that then why not Microsoft.
It's just completely wrong.
Also the console turns into a paperweight if you want to sell it in the future and Microsoft have turned off their servers.
Depending on both an internet connection and a server connection for physical games isn't acceptable and should be illegal.
Heck it shouldn't be required for digitally bought games either.
There's too much DRM going on with Microsoft.
You're effectively being punished for buying from them.
@Darealbandicoot They already have mine from the Xbox 360 era anyway. That's the last Xbox I bought because of this kind of crap.
Ladies and gentlemen... Xbox One.
@JC Denton yea, I was just quoting Don Mattrick
@JC Denton I just love how the PlayStation lives rent free inside your head.
I legit saw an ad in rural Spain that said "selling because there's no internet where I live"
I found This Very interesting , Thank you
It's been a year since your last main video about Xbox's DRM. It's disappointing Xbox has still not addressed this issue. I have since shifted mostly over to PlayStation.
The question for me is, given that MS has acknowledged this issue, is there something they could perhaps do at the firmware level to allow stock XB1 games to boot offline? Sony quietly fixed the C-Bomb, hopefully MS will follow suit.
I suspect this is less a case of Microsoft acknowledging the issue and more to do with developers moving away from releasing an Xbox One version
And in the case of smart delivery discs, it would likely be down to if there is enough space on the disc to put both versions
As to if it would be possible to run Xbox One games on a Series X without whatever patches the system downloads, im not entirely sure, but it’s possible that the games may not run as good without those patches
Sony didn't fix the c-bomb on ps3. Now I have 52 digital games on it and I prey every single day, they will fix it... But at the moment nothing so far. If they won't fix it (at least before shutting down the ps3 servers) I'm done with Sony.
Sony only fixed it anything newer than a PS3 so for those on a PS3, You're out of luck.
@@frozenturbo8623 out of luck? I call it a scam! They stressed so much how the digital delivery was the future and I had believed in them. What an idiot I was... Now I have to hack my ps3 in order to play games that I HAD PURCHASED LEGALLY!!! In order to be c-bomb proof.
Thank you for the sad news, at least you have saved me from buying a ps5 once it will become available.
@@alexroot1980 PS5 has always been available since launch day.
Thanks for the content MVG, kind of a bummer for some people with no internet or internet outage problems.
Oooh, really enjoyed the different outro song.
It broke my heart when Halo Infinte needed to download the campaign from the internet before you can play it. Such a shame, they are literally selling us 'CD Keys' and nothing more.
That literally made me sale my xbox and ps4, enough is enough already. Literally have 1000s of games from xbox 360 back to nes to keep me entertained lol.
Welcome to the future old man. Go buy a pc game physical. Consoles aren’t too much fir there behind.
@@MrXmoda I'm good, just emulate it if i live long enough 😆
@@mikeclark4480 Can't emulate anything past 2013
@@MrXmoda You can actually emulate Nintendo switch, You need a good PC for it.
You should do this with games that supposed to be native XB Series likes The Medium or KoF 16.
Also, is this a problem on PS5 too? Or the PS5 actually runs the PS4 games just with the disc?
Thank you. You are awesome 👏
Thanks for putting this work in! I think this illustrates that the issue isn't necessarily "DRM" as we usually think of it, it's just not including the appropriate data on the disk for all systems - though it does have a similar effect. Balan Wonderland was probably just not a large game, so it could include all versions physically. It would be interesting to see if these games work at all offline after they have been fully installed.
If it makes your console or discs essentially paper weights with no internet it's terrible I can't imagine 15+ years later
I could be wrong, but I think SmartDelivery only requires a one-time download, not always online
Console gaming truly has gone backwards. It used to be all about simplicity. All you were dependent on was electricity and your game disc/cartridge working.
Nowadays console gaming is ridden with constant updates, DRM checks and mandatory online connection for the even the most basic functionality. PC gaming has ironically become more accessible over the years.
console gaming feels more like renting from a subscription service than buying games you can keep forever
Console gaming needs to go back to the way it was. And that includes physical media and not having to be online for anything.
Ive said this before and it still holds true. only rich people or idiots game on consoles today. those are your only choices. Youre either tied to ridiculous "services" you never have to pay on PC to enjoy or paying MORE to buy games on it. or your just an idiot because you think PC gaming is hard to get into when the reality is its never been more easier to both BUILD a PC and to play games on it. Even LINUX is getting easier to get into thanks to Steam OS!
@@lordxmugen Ya pc gaming is the way to go I have pretty much moved away from consoles at this point my ps5 collects dust. In the long run the pc is cheaper no online sub fees, cheaper games, piracy, emulation for almost every console, etc. The consoles make up for those cheaper prices in other ways is the point. There is a learning curve to pc to a extent but everyone learns over time it's mostly plug and play. It's pretty much just learning keyboard shortcuts and troubleshooting problems once that's learned you can do more then a console ever could.
@@sygos Someone somewhere said something about owning nothing and being happy?
It's always a good day when MVG uploads 😁
Thanks for the great video. I would also be good to know, after the game has downloaded itself from the Internet fully, if it could run without network access.
Smart Delivery only sounds good on paper. In reality, I prefer the Sony method of letting you chose which version to play and would have eliminated this issue entirely on the Xbox. That plus the option to play last gen version over current gen version when devs mess up the new gen version like Elden Ring for example
Microsoft are doing it now if you look at the callisto protocol two different versions Xbox series x and Xbox one and other games to it’s the cross gen that’s messing things up mostly
oh look a ps fanboy/girl posting nonsense.
Ex-video game retail worker here, If a smart delivery game has a Series X sticker in the corner of the case, the disk most likely has the Series X version of the game. Without that sticker, it will most likely be the old gen version. Your mileage may vary but from memory (6 months ago) our Xbox rep told us this
RE Village had the sticker when i bought it but is shown in this video to install the XboxOne version
@@ChrisWTube Microsoft to be a complete pain in the ass will put out two versions of the game. MVGs copy here doesn't have the series X sticker hence it's the Xbox One on disk version. Your mileage may vary, I haven't worked in retail for almost a year now but at the launch it was very confusing for both staff and customers as to which versions were for which console.
@@AlexCheerNZ mine has the sticker and installs the xbox one version offline, it was a launch day purchase
Can’t help but notice how you slipped in Balan Wonderland 😂😂😂 I bet Shawn is losing it about now. Awesome 👏🏻
Great episode! I bet the comunity will bring a way to backup the downloaded versions so we can preserve somehow the digital downloads
It’s ridiculous that SeriesX needs an online check for XboxOne games, this information should be built into the system updates
It doesn't need a check. The entire Xbox OS runs on Virtual Machines, so for every Xbox One game image, the Series X has to download the virtual machine definition so it can run that game image.
Think on VirtualBox for example: you can have a Windows 10 image on a USB drive titled Win10.VMD. That image has the entire OS, but it doesn't do shit if it also doesn't have the Virtual Machine definition on how to run that VMD file.
Now, given that example, think of Xbox discs just as that: entire VMD images that works "out of the box" on an Xbox One, but need the "Virtual Machine definition" file to actually work on an Xbox Series X. Once the definition file is downloaded (normally a few megabytes), then it works offline just as if it was native.
@@cybermiguelo that’s what I meant by a check but forgot to say ‘one time after installation’. These should get baked into the system updates as they can be downloaded off xbox.com and used to update the console while offline.
@@cybermiguelo that’s what I meant by a check but forgot to say ‘one time after installation’. These should get baked into the system updates as they can be downloaded off xbox.com and used to update the console while offline.
Glad you made an updated video! On my alt channel I recently made a video regarding this topic, and it's very simple.
If you're on an Xbox Series X and assuming you're offline.. Physical Native Games play without an issue. Physical Non-Native Games (Xbox One) will not play without a patch.
If you're on an Xbox One and assuming you're offline, it's the same concept except Xbox One Native titles will play without a patch.
Both platforms require a download to emulate and play Xbox 360 and Original Xbox titles.
Honestly if they can somehow make it so physical Xbox One titles can be played offline on the Series X.. that'd help with a lot of the concerns. I assume they simply need to download some small config to work, considering the difference in hardware. I can't imagine it's that bloated compared to downloading the entire container for X360/Xbox Original emulation packages. It's either that or Smart Delivery gets in the way with some kind of "forced check" upon startup, as to whether there is a Series X patch once it detects it's an Xbox One title, without any way to ignore it while offline.
Of course all digital titles receive a 30 day license to play offline with, and is refreshed consistently UNTIL you lose internet.
I'm willing to bet majority of the people complaining have yet to set their Xbox as the home console (a lot of my Series X friends never did, and it was still assigned with their Xbox One). That or they are game sharing, which removes the Offline mode benefits.
Overall though I appreciate you bringing in FACTS. People storm and rage about a topic so often without having any legitimate knowledge on it themselves, so it's definitely a welcomed sight LOL.
I don't see why a console should be set to a home or main setting to play disc based games or even need internet it's legit shit practice
Ooh, I ran into a scenario with offline physical media, and this sorta checks out! Couldn't play any of the Xbox one games I hadn't installed before an internet outage, but I was able to install and run Scarlet Nexus offline! So that's another one on the list of offline Smart Delivery games.
Balan Wonderland being the one Smart Delivery game you tested that installed the XSX version is hilarious. Maybe that Series X sticker on the actual case is meant to denote that the XSX version is on the disc?