The Luger's Fatal Flaw
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- The Luger was one of the first truly successful semi automatic handgun designs, but came with a few problems... One of which proved deadly on more than one occasion and led to the development of what is known as the Sear Safety Luger.
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May i ask you from where do you find info s about this so called shooting himself issue at a Luger? Thank you.
Ian McCollum mentions this same issue in his video on German Police SMG Safeties
Brad Simpson also has a great video on an add on safety that was added after this issue was discovered. Look up Luger Sear Safety. Interesting stuff!
Band of Brothers by Stephen E Ambrose talks about a soldier in Easy Company 2nd Battalion 506th PIR 101st Airborne Div. Don Hoobler accidentally shot himself in the leg with while he had a luger in his pocket. Granted he had it assembled and probably pulled the trigger but that is another documented example of an accidental shooting with a Luger and one that resulted sadly in the death of the soldier in question.
@@sniperslayer95 thanks for the comment! Gun safety rules sure have come a long way since then. Take all the pictures from WWII, fingers all proudly on the trigger! Lol
@@sniperslayer95 And that is the reason You carry with empty chamber or in a holster, the 1911 will do the same thing, and You always treats a gun as loaded. Thee are some basic firearms safety rules, follow them and You and the people around You is safe.
Oh for crying out loud! The Luger is quite safe. People are unsafe. For this to happen it require negligence on the part of the handler. There is no 'fatal flaw'. And your disassembly is incorrect. There is no need to fully retract the toggle before moving the take-down catch. The upper just needs to move rearward about 1/4". And if someone tries to disassemble the piece without checking the chamber that's a training issue, not a design flaw. So what's next? The Nambu Type-94?
There's even a loaded chamber indicator in the form of an extractor claw that pops up and is labeled "geladen" (german for "loaded"). In 1971 I was at college and visiting some guy's apartment where he proudly showed me his 1908 Luger in excellent condition that he got for a song ($40). He handed it to me to inspect and stated it wasn't loaded because he had removed the magazine. I knew about Lugers and saw that the extractor was in the loaded position. I pulled the toggle back, removed the chambered cartridge and handed it to him with a gimlet eye. Always check the chamber of any gun handed to you; never assume!
You have to realize, that back in the time period of the early 1900's there was little to no training (or adequate instruction) SOP's or doctrine for a regular process to clear a pistol, autoloaders were still very new to the world in general (C&R Arsenal Primer on Lugers is a great watch too on the history) where wheelguns were still the norm, and there is record (also stated by Ian McCollum and Brad Simpson) that details some of the ND/ AD's that have happened when disassembly and cleaning attempts and subsequent accidents happened back in the day.
Also notwithstanding that idiots even in the current day and age still manage to have accidents when they don't properly clear their firearms to clean them, happens no less than 50 times a year across the US (the figure is actually a lot more statistically and repetitively closer to 130 times/ year).
@@DJTheMetalheadMercenary people often lie about the circumstances of accidental shootings to authorities and more likely something else was going on.
@@loquat44-40 That is the case sometimes, yep. Some people just ain't smart lol.
A lotta times it's just wanna be gangsters practicing being bad-asses these days. We've seen the videos. Oh, it went off when I was cleaning it.😅
Won't happen if there's no round in the chamber!....
So let me get this straight. You have to completely open the action (ejecting any round in chamber) to separate the upper and lower. And now the gun can fire if I press the sear? That is why it's called negligent discharge. You'd have to leave a loaded mag in and not check chamber. BTW the P08 has a loaded chamber indicator
That is not a problem. Triple check that the mag is out and the chamber is unloaded before you disassemble your gun... Those who disassemble a loaded gun deserve a Darwin award imo.
This was, in fact, a problem that several German police forces put out a formal request to fix in the 1920's. Look up the Sear Safety Luger.
@@huntersrauwolf Lost faith in 1920s german police then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@huntersrauwolf This was a problem because they weren't being trained correctly. We like to consider that the police are experts at using and maintaining their guns but you will find that is oftentimes not the case. Its probably the reason that police in America held onto revolvers for so long. Because they're just so dang simple. But have very few safeties at all. You used to not be able to carry a round under the hammer. Double actions kind of fixed this problem but not completely. Then they made the transfer bar which made them drop safe seemingly.
Have the exact same model from the same year, same manufacturer! It is an absolute joy!!!
Gnarly!!!! Such a nice Luger specimen though. Knowledge is power!!!!!!
I have a luger and have never had to open the slide to break the gun down I just pull the entire slide assembly to the rear of the slide and turn down the teardown lever.
Dislike. The P.08 is perfectly safe to handle and shoot.
So you can use your Luger as a magic wand?
AVADA KEDARVA
If anything, I learned how to disassemble a Luger.
This is not a complete field strip
I don't see a problem, I see a magic wand that does magic things.
A none issue if one follows basic firearms safety
Yep, but unfortunately idiots still abide. Good commom sense would tell you to remove the magazine and make sure there were no live rounds in the chamber. Sadly it seems good commom sense is becoming rarer every day.😉
Accidental discharge happens only if you don’t follow safety rules ! A Luger is not a Nambu type 94 where the sear is not protected.
Before cleaning or disassembling, remove the mag and check the chamber twice like all automatic pistols ! Furthermore, the Luger’s got a chamber indicator. If you can see « geladen » on it, there is a round in the chamber. Danger !!
Thank you so much for this information! I enjoyed your paramedic comparisons! I subbed
yes, I inherited one that has been in the family since 1916, Mauser C96 M1916 in 9mm caliber. Greetings from Germany
The toggle does not need to be bent in order to separate the slide/barrel from lower. Pushing the barrel slightly back will allow you to unlock the lever.
I learned something today, thanks
That seems like something you'd see in a spy movie.
Gets a gun but a check is approaching. So he hides the top and bullet while ditching the rest.
But in other circumstances, the Luger being able to fire while literally broken in half would be called reliable.
A gun that can't shoot is just a piece of metal. But being able to say you can literally break the gun apart and it would still fire reliably. That's a deal.
An example of a assassin's concealment of a weapon of last resort. If they only had one bullet left, and a broken lower trigger assembly. Neat trick for those who knew this would happen, back then.
Glock is by far worse you have to intentionaly pull the trigger to disasemble the gun and its a 1980s design that still prevails in military ,law enforcement and private use ,all striker fired pistols are unsafe to disasemble if you dont have safe gun handling . allways take off the magazine toss aside all the ammo ,check the chamber that it is unloaded and then and only then proceed to disasemble the gun .
Any firearm is unsafe to disassemble if you don’t have proper safety handling
My Luger's safety basically doesn't work whether it's on or off. It's only a plate that supposedly blocks the "knee" of sear from pivoting outward. But the safety plate is loose enough it can move with the sear, so it's not blocking anything, and the striker drops even when the safety is on. I tried to email Luger, it's like no one works there. Bad service. Now I know why US military didn't pick the P08!
I would venture to guess that the little arm that blocks the sear from flexing is either bent or snapped off. Hard to tell without having it in my hands, but that would be a good place to start
@@huntersrauwolf nope, straight as an arrow. If it's bent, it wouldn't be able to move up and down inside freely. Mine is pretty smooth and looks cool, except it's practically useless.
U.S.Gov didn't pick the Luger because they didn't want their sidearm made by a different country in case of war embargos. There is no Luger Company to email, not since 1942. There are a few custom makers that replicate them, at great expense. . Lugers were hand fitted with every part serial numbered, not interchanging with other Lugers. . Your loose safety bar may be a part swap that was not factory fitted up. Toward the end of World War 2 there were supply wagons that rebuilt equipment in the field, and if the gun went off, that was good enough to pass inspection.
My father told about a shot threw a knee with a half dismantled Luger, not complete unloaded and safed.
On the Luger I am familiar with, you can also fire the gun by pressing on the linkage on the side of the weapon about halfway between the top of the trigger and the receiver. For this reason, the Luger had a hard shell holster. Ironically, the Luger also had a feature they would indicate that a round was in the chamber. The extractor would protrude and on the side of the extractor was written “Geladen“
Oh wow, lucky glock that is a modern gun doesn't have the same problem, where people pull the trigger to reset the needle and pull the receiver back, oh yes of course people shot or had accidental discharge like that, jeez, this is not a problem it's the lack of respect and knowledge with a gun, I still remember the epidemic of people shooting themselves when glock came around, it's not a flaw, it's the lack of expertise and training, I hate videos like this, it's like ''hur dur everygun has a fatal flaw look, *proceeds to look into the barrel*, see ? how dangerous it is?'' jeez man. I think even glock you can do the same thing on the video, I'm not sure but I do remember some guns you could do the same, that aren't even 30 years old.
This sucks. Remove the magazine, work the action and look in the chamber - if all clear proceed to strip the gun. First rule of firearms training - the gun IS loaded until you prove it is not.
Never knew about that aspect of the Luger design.
A word of caution(warning, whatever), calling yourself an expert is a very loaded claim to make. Experts get paid for their opinions/experiences.
If you are going to refer to yourself as an expert on a media platform you had best not be wrong. Ever.
I'm a professional P08 expert it's made to go off of captured it's why it is called the Black widow and for enemy not to get the upper hand yes safety was a issue but it was made as a boobietrap if captured it's about always removing every live rounds and making sure chamber is clear triple check and make sure everything is safe it's how I was trained by my great uncle and my great aunt that worked on p08s and p38s so I know exactly what your saying but many people don't know about safety is strict and far more #1 most importance and being righteous and being law-abiding it doesn't matter what anyone is of title it's about knowing right from wrong and earning trust and privileges it's not the gun to ever blame always remember that and safety is a all must it doesn't matter how much you know it is about safety and safety and well being around your self and others and being responsible and right by laws
Same thing happens when you handle my barrel that way ;)
ZEBRA WALL
*distant horny screeching*
The Luger was never intended for a "Quick-Draw", where it is carried with a round in the chamber. It was a cavalry officer's sidearm with a lanyard ring, not a combat pistol. It was dumb individuals who insisted on carrying with a round in the chamber, worse if they did not have a proper holster. . . The modern pistols with the magazine safeties and grip squeeze safeties are made for stupid untrained people who are NOT capable of situation awareness and fail to use proper pistol etiquette. . . signed. . 72 year old pistol collector, ex military Pittsburgh.
At an even more elementary level, as there is no exposed hammer it is difficult to impossible to know if the gun is cocked & also difficult to see if a round has been chambered. Appreciate that the extractor is slightly raies if this is the case but, this can be easily missed. Nice gun though!
Yea the extractor sticks up when loaded to indicate to you
It's really not a problem. Anyone disassembling a gun without clearing it is probably destined for a bad fate. Also, schiwey sear safety, not needed.
Luger has no half cock or firing pin safeties. It's a typical military gun. Problems in the sear/firing pin geometry, due to dirty or wear, may cause the firing pin to slip off from the sear uppon impact. In the XIX century they didn't care tpo much for safety. I had two lugers in the 90's, one like yours but in a bad shape (at that time to have a luger in my country wqs a felony). I never considered that pistols as usable guns.
The grip safety was a good idea. Maybe because the gun was very well made with the best availabe steel alloys the potential issue wasn't noted?
A friend got a Luger in 1985 for a very low price because it fired after a drop and its owner became frightened A few strokes with a diamond file and the gun became safe again.
If you leave the mag or a round in almost any pistol while taking it apart your asking for trouble
You don’t have to do anything to the toggle whatsoever to take it down. Just push on against the barrel then switch the take down lever and remove side plate.
I can’t think of any reason why you would tell people to do it that way
It's a problem for the morons that don't check for bullets in the chamber before disassembling.
Neither of my Grandfathers ever owned a Luger, or any other pistol.
Not a so called flaw at all. Just clear the pistol before cleaning.
No his nambu will
⚘️⚘️🍁🇹🇷🍁⚘️⚘️nice
Lugers are only a danger in the hands of so called experts like yourself , nobody chambesrs live rounds unless negligent , maybe do a video on negligent discharges.
very dangerous gun/ thanks