For those who are wondering who was also in the video? it's me, BunnyBoi 2005, but you can just call me Angel. Voicing was a pain in the neck for me, but at least it's here.
I think Guru forgot to add your name to the credits in the video. Though, at least it looks like he remembered your name in the video description. Still though, I would recommend doublechecking the credits before uploading the documentary, the next time you guys do another one.
Cotton Belt engine 819 is an impressive 4-8-4 type locomotive that has had an interesting career operating in revenue and excursion service, the 819 is the sole surviving SSW 4-8-4 engine and the last steam engine built for the SSW railroad. I am glad that engine 819 was preserved and had a brief excursion service career as I always enjoy learning about the history of American railroads and especially the steam era/ steam locomotives.
819 last run was in 93 because the CBRHS could no longer afford the the liability insurance and operating cost. 819 last steam up was in 95 and the merger happened in September of 1996. 819 was invited to double head with the Union Pacific 3985 to Monroe, La but that never happened because it got tore down for its 2nd rebuild. Union Pacific never had a policy against foreign steam they never said no. 819 is getting a cosmetic restoration done on her. My name is Joel i am commenting under my friends account, i volunteer at the Arkansas Railroad Museum and I Get my source of information from my friends who are 819 crew members and one them fired part time on the 3985 back in the 90s.
Very nice tribute to my favorite steam locomotive. As a Pine Bluff native and with my grandfather and several other family members working for the Cotton Belt, I got to ride behind her on one of the short excursions in the late 80s early 90s to Fordyce, AR. It is sad to see that she won't be brought back to life but I did hear a rumor (you'll have to check with the CBHS people) is that Union Pacific did offer to bring her back to life recently but it would have to be housed in Cheyenne with the rest of the steam fleet and the City of Pine Bluff rejected it. Not sure how true it is, what I do know is, the State Representative, who wrote the bill is a close friend of mine and owns a model railroad hobby shop in central AR where he also saved a Missouri Pacific depot from being torn down. He told me Union Pacific currently owns the building the AR RR Museum sits in and the attempt of making it the State Locomotive wouldn't cost the tax payers any money but also help prevent future Union Pacific management to require the CBHS to relocate which would require the 819 to be either moved or scrapped. It's basically an extra layer of protection for the 819.
819 always stood out to me. Something about her design just makes her unique compared to all the other Northern type locomotives. Image if UP did allow foreign steam to run on their trackage, 819 would still be running to this day.
I live in PineBluff and my family has a lot of history on the railroad, from the cotton belt days up to now. My late grandfather has some of his things from the railroad on display in the PineBluff railroad museum. As a kid I loved the 819, now I’m 23 and would love to see it moving on the tracks again, after all I’ve only seen it in the museum.
Amazing video Train Guru! The 819 is one of my favorites despite never seeing it in person, But I like it because for 1 it had a rather short excursion career on the Cotton Belt, But also because it's birthday is in February the same month as mine. It's sad that Union Pacific won't allow any foreign steam on their rails, But at the same time I can understand why. Keep up the good work!
@@TrainGuru Neither Bill Bailey, The Dir OF Project 819 nor me Joseph Darrel Cason the Asst Dir of Project 819 were consulted about this video so you could have got all of your facts correct. But you did a good job on most of the video. Despite the inaccuracies. Thanks for sharing it. It helped bring back good memories on my 25 years of blood sweat & tears with the 819
819 last run was in 93 because the CBRHS could no longer afford the the liability insurance and operating cost. 819 last steam up was in 95 and the merger happened in September of 1996. 819 was invited to double head with the Union Pacific 3985 to Monroe, La but that never happened because it got tore down for its 2nd rebuild. Union Pacific never had a policy against foreign steam they never said no. 819 is getting a cosmetic restoration done on her. My name is Joel i am commenting under my friends account, i volunteer at the Arkansas Railroad Museum and I Get my source of information from my friends who are 819 crew members and one them fired part time on the 3985 back in the 90s.
819 last run was in 93 because the CBRHS could no longer afford the the liability insurance and operating cost. 819 last steam up was in 95 and the merger happened in September of 1996. 819 was invited to double head with the Union Pacific 3985 to Monroe, La but that never happened because it got tore down for its 2nd rebuild. Union Pacific never had a policy against foreign steam they never said no. 819 is getting a cosmetic restoration done her. My name is Joel commenting under my friends account, i volunteer at the Arkansas Railroad Museum and I Get my source of information from my friends who are 819 crew members and one them fired part time on the 3985 back in the 90s.
Yeah. What I meant was that 819 could no longer pull any excursions with passengers, and that was why 819 was retired; she lost her access to pull mainline excursions.
In Jan,1994 the SP sold their commuter lines on the west coast & cancelled their $200,000,000 libality ins policy, which had a 10,000,000 dectible. Before hand all we had to do was get a policy to meet their dectible. Which was impossible for us or any other organazation to obtain
Also in 96 or 97 when ever UP took over the CB & SP, Mark Davis, the UP's PR man called me up asking about the 819's status. Because they were wanting to run it all over the CB & SP system touting the merger. I told him that I was in the middle of its 5 yr inspection & the new FRA man had not gave us a years flue extension, that I had asked far. Which he denied later on.. I had known Mark from my time with the 3985 crew from 92-95 So that never happen.
This is actually very disheartening because we have the same problem down here in Georgia, the only large steam engine we had running was 290 and it last saw steam in 1992 and has never run again due to they're being nowhere for it to run and no railroad willing to let it run. Its ashame because ed and company SHOULD make exceptions for steam thats from railroads they merged with
Yeah. Southern Pacific in my opinion did steam right. They didn't have a program, but they let non profits run steam and let them run for PR. They even let 844 and 3985 go down to Sacramento for both Railfairs. UP is kinda messy railroad, but while I know that 819 is forever done for, I really don't want 4449 to be done for. But after her ban from Oaks Park, I fear that she'll be the next retirement...
@@TrainGuru I think we're more or less witnessing the end of an era for any form of Mainline steam excursions period because all the corporate bigwigs and insurance mongers for all the railroads, especially amtrak, feel it's just too much of a risk and liability to run these engines and excursions despite the fact that the people running these engines are way more competent than any of them ever could be in terms of operating them and maintaining them
From the Arkansas Railroad Museum in a private email. They stated that they had plans as far back as the early 1990s for 819 to travel to Williams, Arizona before her flue time expired. However, because UP kicked her to the curb, she couldn’t travel after 1994.
Facts. 1. Union Pacific doesn't have a policy against foreign Steam. 2. Last year of operation was in 1993. 3. Stop running because the CBRHS could not afford the liability insurance and operating cost. 4 last steam up in 1995. 5. Was invited to double head with UP 3985 to Monroe, LA the double header never happened because it got torn down for its 2nd rebuild. 6. September - 1996 SP and UP Merger. 7. Official State Steam Locomotive of Arkansas. 8. Getting a Comestic Restoration. Opinion 819 will run again someday until that happens. We need volunteers, funding, able to cover operating cost, liability insurance, and a great relationship with Union Pacific.
Yeah. What I meant was that 819 could no longer pull any excursions with passengers, and that was why 819 was retired; she lost her access to pull mainline excursions.
One of the worst things Union Pacific (my favorite railroad) has done☹️. They let 1522 deviate from their rule, but I don’t know why the don’t allow it for 819 nor never allowed it for 819. Other worst thing I know they’ve done is foil CNW’s plans to buy SD80MAC’s. NS never spared any SD80MACs they inherited from Conrail, but UP would have spared an SD80MAC if the my had any.
I agree. But I think the reason why 819 was cut off was because she was a Southern Pacific affiliate. Coupled with the fact that the UP refused any of SP engines to run, it was a death sentence.
@Train Guru Its a shame really, I still like Union Pacific and still think its a great railroad, I just think the higher ups need to be more open, Make better chsoes and need a Re-education in humanity
819 last run was in 93 because the CBRHS could no longer afford the the liability insurance and operating cost. 819 last steam up was in 95 and the merger happened in September of 1996. 819 was invited to double head with the Union Pacific 3985 to Monroe, La but that never happened because it got tore down for its 2nd rebuild. Union Pacific never had a policy against foreign steam they never said no. 819 is getting a cosmetic restoration done on her. My name is Joel i am commenting under my friends account, i volunteer at the Arkansas Railroad Museum and I Get my source of information from my friends who are 819 crew members and one them fired part time on the 3985 back in the 90s.
They were stubborn for two main reasons. 1.) Because many steam locomotives that wanted to run mainline excursions are not from the UP, they didn’t want an image of non UP steamers running 2.) Money. Amtrak doesn’t support passenger excursions anymore, which makes it more expensive for non profits. It’s why locomotives like Soo Line 1003 and ATSF 3751 have only run either on heritage lines or on mainline track owned by local governments or commuter railroads.
@@TrainGuru thanks for the explanation, it's ashame, though, that a Hugh railroad UP is would think such a historical train, regardless of the carrier, would hurt there business or image, it instead would show there respect for railroad history. Amtrak's a and always will be a blight to what railroading use to be, being typical government bean counting. THANKS for all you do for railroad history!!!
They were new tech at the time. To save metal for the war, the WPB encouraged railroads to only use pre existing designs. The Santa Fe and the Pennsylvania Railroad were the only ones who got exemptions because they ordered diesel locomotives that were already tried and true. The EMD FT was still more experimental.
soon the 819 won't be screwin around soon and get tired of the all this rotting and access the 5th demotion to get revenge on union pacific. (no i am not stupid, people do not even know what is a joke due to memes devolving so much.)
The problem is that no railroad, regional or mainline, could take her. She would have to leave Cotton Belt trackage to have even the slightest chance of running anywhere else.
@@TrainGuru you’re absolutely wrong. 819 can absolutely run again over the UP at that as well. Using the BNSF trackage rights over the Cotton Belt it can run.
819 last run was in 93 because the CBRHS could no longer afford the the liability insurance and operating cost. 819 last steam up was in 95 and the merger happened in September of 1996. 819 was invited to double head with the Union Pacific 3985 to Monroe, La but that never happened because it got tore down for its 2nd rebuild. Union Pacific never had a policy against foreign steam they never said no. 819 is getting a cosmetic restoration done on her. My name is Joel i am commenting under my friends account, i volunteer at the Arkansas Railroad Museum and I Get my source of information from my friends who are 819 crew members and one them fired part time on the 3985 back in the 90s.
For those who are wondering who was also in the video? it's me, BunnyBoi 2005, but you can just call me Angel. Voicing was a pain in the neck for me, but at least it's here.
I think Guru forgot to add your name to the credits in the video. Though, at least it looks like he remembered your name in the video description. Still though, I would recommend doublechecking the credits before uploading the documentary, the next time you guys do another one.
Cotton Belt engine 819 is an impressive 4-8-4 type locomotive that has had an interesting career operating in revenue and excursion service, the 819 is the sole surviving SSW 4-8-4 engine and the last steam engine built for the SSW railroad. I am glad that engine 819 was preserved and had a brief excursion service career as I always enjoy learning about the history of American railroads and especially the steam era/ steam locomotives.
Out of all the preserved 4-8-4's this one is by far the most underrated and most unheard of.
Agreed.
819 last run was in 93 because the CBRHS could no longer afford the the liability insurance and operating cost. 819 last steam up was in 95 and the merger happened in September of 1996. 819 was invited to double head with the Union Pacific 3985 to Monroe, La but that never happened because it got tore down for its 2nd rebuild. Union Pacific never had a policy against foreign steam they never said no. 819 is getting a cosmetic restoration done on her. My name is Joel i am commenting under my friends account, i volunteer at the Arkansas Railroad Museum and I Get my source of information from my friends who are 819 crew members and one them fired part time on the 3985 back in the 90s.
Very nice tribute to my favorite steam locomotive. As a Pine Bluff native and with my grandfather and several other family members working for the Cotton Belt, I got to ride behind her on one of the short excursions in the late 80s early 90s to Fordyce, AR. It is sad to see that she won't be brought back to life but I did hear a rumor (you'll have to check with the CBHS people) is that Union Pacific did offer to bring her back to life recently but it would have to be housed in Cheyenne with the rest of the steam fleet and the City of Pine Bluff rejected it. Not sure how true it is, what I do know is, the State Representative, who wrote the bill is a close friend of mine and owns a model railroad hobby shop in central AR where he also saved a Missouri Pacific depot from being torn down. He told me Union Pacific currently owns the building the AR RR Museum sits in and the attempt of making it the State Locomotive wouldn't cost the tax payers any money but also help prevent future Union Pacific management to require the CBHS to relocate which would require the 819 to be either moved or scrapped. It's basically an extra layer of protection for the 819.
I will check the rumor with Mr. Bailey. I do have my skepticism though...
819 always stood out to me. Something about her design just makes her unique compared to all the other Northern type locomotives. Image if UP did allow foreign steam to run on their trackage, 819 would still be running to this day.
I live in PineBluff and my family has a lot of history on the railroad, from the cotton belt days up to now. My late grandfather has some of his things from the railroad on display in the PineBluff railroad museum. As a kid I loved the 819, now I’m 23 and would love to see it moving on the tracks again, after all I’ve only seen it in the museum.
13:10 I just realized, you used the soundtrack from my all-time favorite movie here 🥰
Amazing video Train Guru! The 819 is one of my favorites despite never seeing it in person, But I like it because for 1 it had a rather short excursion career on the Cotton Belt, But also because it's birthday is in February the same month as mine. It's sad that Union Pacific won't allow any foreign steam on their rails, But at the same time I can understand why. Keep up the good work!
Thanks a lot!
@@TrainGuru Neither Bill Bailey, The Dir OF Project 819 nor me Joseph Darrel Cason the Asst Dir of Project 819 were consulted about this video so you could have got all of your facts correct. But you did a good job on most of the video. Despite the inaccuracies. Thanks for sharing it. It helped bring back good memories on my 25 years of blood sweat & tears with the 819
This was really good! Probably now my second favorite video you’ve done!
Wow, thanks!
Let’s go! A way to celebrate 819’s birthday! 🥳🎉
Happy birthday to SSW 819.From Being Built and Being Retired to Excursion Service and Being Restored
Yes! My my favorite steam engine of all time!
Cool!
@@TrainGuru Yeah, a locomotive very dear to my heart.
Great document 👍
It's a massive shame 819 ain't returning to steam
Tell me about it. Thanks for watching!
@Train Guru fine, I'll tell you about it lol :) seriously though, it's sad 819 won't return anytime soon
@@TrainGuru couldn't she run on bnsf
Theoretically, yes. Realistically, no. The Arkansas Railroad Museum had no passenger equipment, and they would’ve needed those cars.
@@TrainGuru no I meant in the future
I admire you interest in the Locomotive.
Thank you. Took me 4 months to produce this.
Nice! I have a suggestion for a next video
What is it?
@@TrainGuru maybe you can make a video about the Climax at Roaring Camp?
Bloomsburg will be discussed in a upcoming documentary.
@@TrainGuru sweet it’s my favorite Locomotive
That was so good I didn't now that 819 restoration was Canceled but we can All hope that won day the 819 will steam again
819 last run was in 93 because the CBRHS could no longer afford the the liability insurance and operating cost. 819 last steam up was in 95 and the merger happened in September of 1996. 819 was invited to double head with the Union Pacific 3985 to Monroe, La but that never happened because it got tore down for its 2nd rebuild. Union Pacific never had a policy against foreign steam they never said no. 819 is getting a cosmetic restoration done on her. My name is Joel i am commenting under my friends account, i volunteer at the Arkansas Railroad Museum and I Get my source of information from my friends who are 819 crew members and one them fired part time on the 3985 back in the 90s.
819 last run was in 93 because the CBRHS could no longer afford the the liability insurance and operating cost. 819 last steam up was in 95 and the merger happened in September of 1996. 819 was invited to double head with the Union Pacific 3985 to Monroe, La but that never happened because it got tore down for its 2nd rebuild. Union Pacific never had a policy against foreign steam they never said no. 819 is getting a cosmetic restoration done her. My name is Joel commenting under my friends account, i volunteer at the Arkansas Railroad Museum and I Get my source of information from my friends who are 819 crew members and one them fired part time on the 3985 back in the 90s.
Yeah. What I meant was that 819 could no longer pull any excursions with passengers, and that was why 819 was retired; she lost her access to pull mainline excursions.
In Jan,1994 the SP sold their commuter lines on the west coast & cancelled their $200,000,000 libality ins policy, which had a 10,000,000 dectible. Before hand all we had to do was get a policy to meet their dectible. Which was impossible for us or any other organazation to obtain
Also in 96 or 97 when ever UP took over the CB & SP, Mark Davis, the UP's PR man called me up asking about the 819's status. Because they were wanting to run it all over the CB & SP system touting the merger. I told him that I was in the middle of its 5 yr inspection & the new FRA man had not gave us a years flue extension, that I had asked far. Which he denied later on.. I had known Mark from my time with the 3985 crew from 92-95 So that never happen.
Nice job
Thanks!
@@TrainGuru You're welcome!
Guru, can you pit time marks where angel's voice is recorded? If so, I will sub.
10:21
This is actually very disheartening because we have the same problem down here in Georgia, the only large steam engine we had running was 290 and it last saw steam in 1992 and has never run again due to they're being nowhere for it to run and no railroad willing to let it run.
Its ashame because ed and company SHOULD make exceptions for steam thats from railroads they merged with
Yeah. Southern Pacific in my opinion did steam right. They didn't have a program, but they let non profits run steam and let them run for PR. They even let 844 and 3985 go down to Sacramento for both Railfairs. UP is kinda messy railroad, but while I know that 819 is forever done for, I really don't want 4449 to be done for. But after her ban from Oaks Park, I fear that she'll be the next retirement...
@@TrainGuru I think we're more or less witnessing the end of an era for any form of Mainline steam excursions period because all the corporate bigwigs and insurance mongers for all the railroads, especially amtrak, feel it's just too much of a risk and liability to run these engines and excursions despite the fact that the people running these engines are way more competent than any of them ever could be in terms of operating them and maintaining them
I didn’t know people expected 819 to participate in the 2002 NRHS convention. Where did you hear that?
From the Arkansas Railroad Museum in a private email. They stated that they had plans as far back as the early 1990s for 819 to travel to Williams, Arizona before her flue time expired. However, because UP kicked her to the curb, she couldn’t travel after 1994.
This engine cameos in end of the line if I recall right
Yup.
Facts.
1. Union Pacific doesn't have a policy against foreign Steam.
2. Last year of operation was in 1993.
3. Stop running because the CBRHS could not afford the liability insurance and operating cost.
4 last steam up in 1995.
5. Was invited to double head with UP 3985 to Monroe, LA the double header never happened because it got torn down for its 2nd rebuild.
6. September - 1996 SP and UP Merger.
7. Official State Steam Locomotive of Arkansas.
8. Getting a Comestic Restoration.
Opinion
819 will run again someday until that happens. We need volunteers, funding, able to cover operating cost, liability insurance, and a great relationship with Union Pacific.
Yeah. What I meant was that 819 could no longer pull any excursions with passengers, and that was why 819 was retired; she lost her access to pull mainline excursions.
@@TrainGuru 819 sat in the Shop disassembled for many years , not enough Volunteers, and not enough money.
I can hear music from Wall-E (One of my favorite Pixar movies)
Yup. That was a little Easter Egg. One of my favorite films of all time.
One of the worst things Union Pacific (my favorite railroad) has done☹️. They let 1522 deviate from their rule, but I don’t know why the don’t allow it for 819 nor never allowed it for 819.
Other worst thing I know they’ve done is foil CNW’s plans to buy SD80MAC’s. NS never spared any SD80MACs they inherited from Conrail, but UP would have spared an SD80MAC if the my had any.
I agree. But I think the reason why 819 was cut off was because she was a Southern Pacific affiliate. Coupled with the fact that the UP refused any of SP engines to run, it was a death sentence.
@Train Guru Its a shame really, I still like Union Pacific and still think its a great railroad, I just think the higher ups need to be more open, Make better chsoes and need a Re-education in humanity
819 last run was in 93 because the CBRHS could no longer afford the the liability insurance and operating cost. 819 last steam up was in 95 and the merger happened in September of 1996. 819 was invited to double head with the Union Pacific 3985 to Monroe, La but that never happened because it got tore down for its 2nd rebuild. Union Pacific never had a policy against foreign steam they never said no. 819 is getting a cosmetic restoration done on her. My name is Joel i am commenting under my friends account, i volunteer at the Arkansas Railroad Museum and I Get my source of information from my friends who are 819 crew members and one them fired part time on the 3985 back in the 90s.
@@RainyBoops I know it, There never was a "UP Steam only Policy" Its just hard to belaive how such a little fib can become such a big lie.
@@Trainman3985 UP Steam Policy always has been a false story.
Very well , I don't understand why union Pacific was so stubborn about letting her run on it's line after it's mergers, makes no sense
They were stubborn for two main reasons.
1.) Because many steam locomotives that wanted to run mainline excursions are not from the UP, they didn’t want an image of non UP steamers running
2.) Money. Amtrak doesn’t support passenger excursions anymore, which makes it more expensive for non profits. It’s why locomotives like Soo Line 1003 and ATSF 3751 have only run either on heritage lines or on mainline track owned by local governments or commuter railroads.
@@TrainGuru thanks for the explanation, it's ashame, though, that a Hugh railroad UP is would think such a historical train, regardless of the carrier, would hurt there business or image, it instead would show there respect for railroad history. Amtrak's a and always will be a blight to what railroading use to be, being typical government bean counting. THANKS for all you do for railroad history!!!
It worked for Norfolk Southern, why can't Union Pacific follow in the footsteps of NS.
Why did the war Production board deny construction of new diesels
They were new tech at the time. To save metal for the war, the WPB encouraged railroads to only use pre existing designs. The Santa Fe and the Pennsylvania Railroad were the only ones who got exemptions because they ordered diesel locomotives that were already tried and true. The EMD FT was still more experimental.
@@TrainGuru who cares war is a bad thing
What if SSW 819 met SP 4449
That would be very nice!
is she getting steamed.
Not anytime soon.
@@TrainGuru i wish it will be steamed for Excursions again.
soon the 819 won't be screwin around soon and get tired of the all this rotting and access the 5th demotion to get revenge on union pacific.
(no i am not stupid, people do not even know what is a joke due to memes devolving so much.)
So does anybody here want to do a little heist?
Maybe smuggling something across UP trackage?
…..
Yeah…
The problem is that no railroad, regional or mainline, could take her. She would have to leave Cotton Belt trackage to have even the slightest chance of running anywhere else.
@@TrainGuru you’re absolutely wrong. 819 can absolutely run again over the UP at that as well. Using the BNSF trackage rights over the Cotton Belt it can run.
Does BNSF have trackage rights in Pine Bluff?
@@TrainGuru yes Memphis to Longview down the SSW, and on Longview back to Memphis on the MOP through Little Rock.
819 last run was in 93 because the CBRHS could no longer afford the the liability insurance and operating cost. 819 last steam up was in 95 and the merger happened in September of 1996. 819 was invited to double head with the Union Pacific 3985 to Monroe, La but that never happened because it got tore down for its 2nd rebuild. Union Pacific never had a policy against foreign steam they never said no. 819 is getting a cosmetic restoration done on her. My name is Joel i am commenting under my friends account, i volunteer at the Arkansas Railroad Museum and I Get my source of information from my friends who are 819 crew members and one them fired part time on the 3985 back in the 90s.