If anyone wondered why I used the Underwood 9mm+P 124 gr flat point FMJ instead of the 147 gr Hard Cast, it's because the 124+P FMJ does much better. In the past I ran the same "dangerous game" ballistic test with 1/2" MDF with Underwood's 9mm+P 147 gr Hard Cast, got about the same energy as the FMJ but got just 22" of penetration. The FMJ goes a full foot deeper, which is no surprise in that for 9mm, a 147 gr is always a reduced power load because of limited case capacity.
I have always thought that 147 grain is heavy for 9x19. Case capacity makes sense for the 124 grain. It is the only weight I personally use in 9x19. For me, I think 124 grain is the best compromise between sectional density and velocity in 9mm.
Its a good statement to go by, hitting with a smaller caliber accurately is usually better than hitting with a large caliber with crap accuracy and long follow up shots when it comes to stopping a charging animal. If you hit a brown bear thats charging you accurately in the head with a 22lr it will have more of a chance of stopping the bear than a .500 S&W where you hit the bear in the leg or what not and cant follow up in time. Extreme example but it fits.
@@davidca96 I know this is a old comment, but I think it's worth saying I totally agree and I will add, there is a darn good argument that volume of fire overcomes power too. Not only can you shoot more accurate with something like a 9mm +p hardcast but you can get far more accurate shots on target in a short period of time compared to something like .44mag with all the adrenaline it's likely you will be shaking you have a moving animal coming at you, what would you rather have 10 shots on target or 3, furthermore what if in the chaos of a few of those miss.. On top of all that many people likely have far more experience and familiarity with 9mm pistols they carry or use on a regular basis, a pretty compelling reason to use 9mm hard cast even for bear defense. Accuracy and rapidity of fire is greater than "power"
I don't know how I never found your channel before yesterday. I appreciate your efforts at making these informative videos. The editing and split screen stuff is awesome. You even have a voice for narrating. Great work!
One thing to note, in the majority of bear attacks where a pistol/revolver was used, the bear is already on top of the victim and has caused injury. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t practice at range, just that you may want to consider how you carry and deploy your weapon when completely caught off guard. I imagine it’s like trying to draw your handgun while under a mattress that’s already biting and clawing you.
Youve clearly demonstrated that flat nose ammo is the way to go. It flies much straighter. I also prefer moderate to maybe full power 240gr .44 for the woods. Its heavy and powerful enough.
I personally run hard cast 255 gr Underwood .44 Mag through my Ruger Redhawk 5.5" - very manageable (average sized male hands), highly accurate and plenty of power. I agree with a somewhat milder load - 255 gr is just right for me, 305 gr (I tried Grizzly ammo) and that one IS too stout for my taste for sure.
See my comment above. Buffalo Bore 180 gr gas check Chrony a legit 1400 fps plus from a 4 inch barrel. Controllable , and puts a 4 inch 357 into 41 mag power range
Control with penetration is way to go. I read about alaskan comments from game wardens most people can't shoot hand canon's well enough for bullet placement because of recoil and people get killed by bear then it dies from wounds, because shooter is not accurate enough with shot placement with a gun they can't control. Very good and well done video thanks 😊 for doing them!
Very, very good demonstration and comparison. Many of us would make the assumption that the bigger the better. More power is "always" a good rule to follow. When a gent of your size and experience concludes that a lower power offering to put shots on target is "better", that speaks volumes. A less experienced shooter would likely struggle to put good shots on target in that stressful of a situation. I like a 240 XTP with 23.5gr of H110 for about everything in our 44s. The 3" 629 is a real handful and loses a substantial amount of velocity. The 6" isn't bad at all with practice.
Yes, I run Underwood 255 gr hard cast in .44 Mag out of my Ruger Redhawk 5.5" barrel and I'd say the exact same it isn't so bad, very accurate and plenty of power.
Nice demo! Interesting that the 357 and 44 bullets had the same length/SD, and they penetrated almost exactly the same---just like they're supposed to. The 357 looks quite viable for bear defense and probably a better choice for the average shooter. The 44 definitely has a lot more power, though.
I would agree, 357. Is good for anything short of grizzly, kodiak and polar bears. And even then.. if you had to dump a cylinder of 357. Into a grizzly or polar. I'm pretty sure it'd do the job. 10mm will do it and it's basically a semi auto 357.
@@youngboyharless9769In the Arctic, researchers doing studies were charged by a large Polar Bear. One of them was armed with a .357 Magnum. It only took 3 shots to stop and kill it.
Interesting. I have some of that Underwood 180gr hardcast. I'll say it's not noticably harder-shooting than your typical full-power 158gr SJHP type round. I still wouldn't feel under-gunned at all with it. For me I don't have a ton of interest in 44mag.
For me, the 180 gr has more push than lighter ammo, but it's less snappy. Feels overall like most other ammo in terms of overall recoil, just more muzzle rise.
Gun Sam I've got to say , I don't know how you do it ? Your ability to hit at 75yds is outstanding ! Aside from that , the video is awesome . Thanks for informing us .
75 yards with the 357 mag was good shooting and great ammo consistency. Yes, you definitely need a sight adjustment from 240s to over 300 grain bullets in 44. Also it seemed you were shooting right with 44 at 25 yards. Could be you, could be sights. Either way I enjoyed watching, thanks
I'm impressed! I use the plus p hard nose in my 9mm when I'm in the back woods. I didn't think it wold travel that far. There are no grizzly bears where I live in Backwoods North Carolina, just an occasional Sasquatch
Great comparison video. I've been loading Missouri Bullet Co Elmer K 240 hardcast over 10gr unique. 1240fps and good penetration in milk jugs. I wonder how they'd do in your gel setup? Let me know if you want some ammo/components to try out.
I cast a 265gr rnfp Ranch Dog designed bullet for my .44 mag. This bullet is cast from 50/50 Linotype/wheelweight lead, then water dropped to maximize hardness. Loaded with 24gr of H110 (This is a very hot load, but is safe in MY gun), giving me a muzzle velocity of 1500fps out of my 7.5" barrel. Talk about an absolute deer slayer! No need for expansion with a .44, just the right bullet design.
Great tests ! That’s the bullet I carry in my .357 ! In my .44 I carry 310 grain hard cast WFN ! The 180 grain has an advantage over the 9 mm weight ! The .44 in my testing does more damage than the .357 does and some of that is because the .44 is larger diameter! So tearing a larger hole seems a + to my targets! I’m not saying the .357 with 180 grain hard cast wouldn’t do the task at hand because it will !
I'm not totally surprised by the results although that 9mm+P did better than I expected. I've heard people who live in big bear country say they carry a .357 mag because of exactly what you showed. I've not fired any of the 305 grain Underwood from my 629 but I imagine its a handful to try and control, especially in a high stress moment like a bear charging you. I kind of want to get some just to see now.
my Ruger Alaskan shoots 44mag. it's pretty tough to get multiple shots off quickly and stay on target. It's also moderately unpleasant to practice with. I often find myself carrying a 10mm (G20 or 1911) because I'm far more likely to get the target multiple times. (note: no Griz in my part of Idaho)
Beautiful testing. I have a few of the Underwood loads, much cheaper than the Buffalo Bore stuff, and works well enough for me. If I want more power, I load my own, but for factory rounds these are pretty good.
Great video. I appreciate your reviews. Once again it comes down to the old adage of carry what you can comfortably shoot and get hits with on target. I'd prefer a .357 mag hole in the bear than a .44 mag hole in a tree. Its funny because a .357 magnum is actually .357 in cartridge diameter whereas a .44 magnum is .429 inches in diameter. you would only looking at .072 in dia projectile difference, albeit Significant in power performance. Shout out to vortex nation podcast for that.
The surface area of the .429 is nearly 1.5× bigger than the .357. Hits on target are what count, AND since the bear is already committed to the attack, more hits may be needed, so hits become more important as the distance closes. That said, to get the sectional density of the .429 305 grain bullet, one would need to be shooting a 212 grain from a 357.
I run 255 gr Underwood hard cast in .44 Mag out of my 5.5" Redhawk and it's very manageable, accurate and plenty of power. 305 gr was too stout for me.
The 44 magnum in that model 69 you need it quad ported to keep the barrel down. You must be using the best setup and test porting that beast. A taller front sight will help you with hitting at 75 yards with that model 69 too.
Ah YES! - the video I was looking for. I have all the calibers you tested. Let's talk about the .44 Mag. I have a Ruger Redhawk 5.5" (basically 6") barrel and it is highly accurate. I practice with it around 7-15 yards as that is about what I would expect in an encounter with a dangerous predator (black bear specifically for me). I had no problems getting tight grouping, a tad less with double action but still well within black on a "pie plate." 305 gr IS narly (I have Grizzly loads in that) and I don't like it - honestly a bit too strong for me. Even the 270 gr jacketed SP flat nose by Buffalo Bore is REALLY strong, so I go with Underwood 255 gr hard cast in .44 Mag and it's absolutely GREAT! Very manageable (for me) average size male hands I am guessing, recoil isn't so bad, very accurate and plenty of power. I use it as my hiker/hunter backup woods carry and don't go in the big bear woods without it. I trust mine, BUT it does require practice. May want to try the 255 gr hard cast Underwood in .44 Mag and retest this - I think you'll have better results and I'd bet a beer on it. Sam, great videos thanks for taking the time, effort and cost to give us a quality presentation.
Hi gun Sam now you are talking what I carry revolvers for most of the time. I carry my ruger security 6 4" 357 in town. In the woods I carry my ruger super Blackhawk hunter 7" 44 mag using handloaded 240 grn hardcast heat treat bullets fom Montana bullet works. Full power imr 4227. . And also my ruger blackhawk 357 7". Both revolver are very accurate. I shot a deer last season with the 44. And the bullet went completely through the deer and came out near its tail. It was close to 40 yard shot. The deer went nowhere. I really like hardcast bullets for hunting. 😊😊 God bless. This is a awsome video. You are a good shot. Thank you😊
I like 357 But I'm pausing right at the beginning to say that load needs more meplat to compete with 44. Especially that particular 44 has very generous meplat.
Sam. Thx for another good presentation. This video shows that bigger is NOT always better in Ammo caliber if you can't put rounds on target. The 44 disappointed & surprised me in the penetration gel test. I wonder if a longer barrel on the 44 would have produced different accuracy? Anyway, Thx again for a job well done!
i would take 4 of 5 on target with the 44 any day over 5 of 5 with the 357 against a bear. and yes a longer barrel and heavier frame makes a world of difference. it's the difference between hunting and target shooting. 7½" super redhawk has no problem throwing 350gr painlessly
@@boedude8496 I agree. I put that out for discussion and thank you for your input. I like the S&W 8 3/8 barrel but that is a personal preference. I also prefer the 454 Casual over the 44 Mag.
yes, the 454 is quite a bit more powerful. it was my first firearm purchase, back in '88. now i have the marlin 1894 to go with it. now waiting to get the 460 pair. i like it better than the 500 for some reason
@@boedude8496 Nice. I have the S&W 460 and 500 Both in 10 inches. I like the 460 better also. The 460 is flatter shooting and hits almost as hard as the 500. Have a good day.
Dude, you must have balls of titanium. I'm not one bit recoil shy but I'm not going to put over a couple of rounds of those 305 gr monsters through a double action revolver. A 6" Ruger Super Blackhawk is another story. That would be a fantastic round for close range deer hunting. A single action is much more pleasant to shoot than a double action. Growing up I heard all the stories of how a 44 mag would break your wrist and all of the usual bs. I bought a imported 6" 44 mag single action several years ago and after the first shot with a full house 240 gr SP I was wondering where all of the unholy recoil was. Sure it had some kick, but it wasn't painful in the least. The way a single action is designed, it's supposed to roll in the hand and that makes it easy to shoot without beating your palm blue. After a little practice I could run several boxes through it before my wrist started getting sore. If you try to fight the gun and have a death grip on it, sure it'll be a rough. You're supposed to let the gun roll back and up in your hand and then it's a pleasure to shoot. Someday I'll have a Ruger GP100 357 with a 4" barrel and that will become my next EDC. I absolutely love my 4" 1911 45, but the GP100 357 is more versatile, effective and reliable than any semi auto, including the 10mm. A Ruger revolver is built like a tank and has the best warranty on the market, plus their customer service is second to none. I learned to shoot with a revolver and shot them for years before semi autos were even a thing here in the US. If a revolver was good enough for people like Wyatt Earp and all of the old west gun fighters and every branch of law enforcement until the late 80's, it's definitely good enough for me.
I've shot 305 gr (Grizzly ammo) through my .44 Mag 5.5" Redhawk and it is too stout for me. However, the 255 gr Underwood hard cast is comfortable to shoot, highly accurate and plenty of power. I was debating single/double action when I bought mine and ultimately went with double action in case I got injured during an attack and couldn't cock the hammer. Rugers ARE built tough, which is why I went with one.
The steel was jumping around with the .44 magnum because you were hitting the edge of it. Probably wouldn’t have jumped around as much if you were getting center mass hits with the .44 magnum. But this video really confirmed my own experience that .357 magnum is the better revolver for an average person (and I’m very average). Love the .357 in a good heavy steel Ruger.
"dinner on the plate" love it lol. What part of Michigan are you in Sam? Not a stalker, lol, but im originally from Millington. Really miss the outdoor life up there
The 180gr WFN is mighty impressive out of your 686! I've carried the Buffalo Bore version in my 386 Mtn Lite as a lightweight hunting backup when elk hunting in the Rockies. 23oz when loaded with 7rnds. Kicks like hell but very accurate. I get 1180fps out of the 386's 3in barrel.
Sam , you should really try a Rhino in 357 . I have had surgery on both my hands and out of desperation it picked up a Rhino in 357 magnum. Because it reduced some of the recoil . It allows me to still fire a magnum.
My go to bear load is 44 mag Buffalo Bore 265 dangerous game load, 1425 fps and 1195 ft lbs of energy. My woods 44 is a 629 4" Magna-ported, It had an action job. I love how fast i can get back on target with this combo. I do have a Colt 8" Anaconda and 8 3/8" Raging bull, these are good hunting guns but as a woods gun my 629 rides along. My son has shot one round of the buffalo bore through his 69, it turned his hand pink. Watching you shoot that 69 said you are devoted to trails and tribulations. Hope the sting leaves soon. Just love the 44!
Bro, the best setup for practical real-world bear testing would be hiring a Russian (Because, is..... Bear!) wearing a half-bear, half-pig costume to charge you in slow motion, assisted by rocket propulsion, lured out by a pic-i-nic basket filled with watermelon and vodka, while surrounded by a speaker system playing Meatloaf's "I would do anything for love (but I won't do that)". Anything else isn't a test providing actionable real-world data. I had to. Your comment about the pulley system got the gears turning.😂
This 357 ammunition is what I bought for S.H.T.F.; knowing it will penetrate and hit hard as hell. It’s good to have a variety of ammunition in each caliber, for different purposes.
Awesome video! You mightcwant to try Buffalo Bore's 9mm Outdoor load. There's a testimony from a customer on the sire describing a successful emergency take-down of a brown bear. Pretty compelling and unexpected!
Sam… love these videos! Recently purchased a Henry Model X in 357. There are some vids of UA-camrs testing out carbine’s chambered in pistol calibers. It would be awesome if my favorite gun channel… wink.. wink… was able to do some testing of his own!! 😁💪🏽😎 Here’s to hoping…
Its all about practice if you know youll be around big bears practice practice then practice more. I couldn't shoot my 47t Limbaugh very good wheni first got it even though i was shooting a 350gr 46 colt at 1200fps very good . After some practice i could shoot a 430gr 475 almost as good as my 45. The right tool for the job and practice is all it takes
Great video. With the 300 or above 44 bullets at full velocity, you will need a higher front sight. With a 6 inch Model 29 S&W, my 300 gr full loads shot 18 inches high at 25 yards. On my 2 and 3/4 inch S&W M69, I added a set of Pachmayr Diamond grips. The full load recoil is still there but the grips take the sting out with 240 and 250 gr loads. Havent tried the 300 gr bullets yet. This revolver is meant as a backup gun and a woods walker. I would go with the SWC 240 gr 44 Mag all copper loads for protection from animals. BTW, Elmer Keith called the 357 Magnum "puny".
I will NEVER own another .44 mag with less than a 6 inch barrel. I carried a S&W 629 with a 2.5 inch barrel for years, and I hated that gun. Dreaded pulling the trigger. I sold it and bought a Taurus 627 357 mag with a 6.5 inch ported barrel a couple of years ago. I love it!
But I actually got mine because I was looking for a .44 Special with a 4" barrel. I figured this was just right, not a lot of intent to shoot magnum ammo.
Very good video and figured before watching the results the 357 w Hard Cast would preform well and the 44 mag would out preform, was interesting. KE is 1/2MV Sq and that will be a game changer if a large game. I carry underwood 200 hard cast in my Glock 27 when outdoors but sometimes carry the 629 with 305's if I get that feeling.
Really enjoyed this video. You do great work. And I wouldn't want to shoot a 44 Magnum either! Biggest surprise was in the 9mm & how the different bullet designs performed. That flat nose 9mm +P did really good. I wonder how it would compare to some of the popular 9mm 147 gr. hard cast bullets in penetration out of a 4" barrel. I saw a couple of videos on the .41 Magnum & how it has 25% less recoil over the 44 Magnum while out penetrating it. Too bad .41 Magnum isn't more popular.
Thanks, the Underwood 124+P flat nose did 1,199 FPS/396 FPE in this 3.2" pistol. I don't think I ran the 147 gr hard cast in this pistol, but the Buffalo Bore 147 gr+P hard cast did 1,094 FPS/391 FPE in my 5" pistol, and I did the same test a year ago with about 5-6" gel then 1/2" MDF and it penetrated to just 20.5" compared to the 34" that the Underwood flat nose 124+P got.
I just found more data, I did run the Underwood 147+P gr hard cast in this 3.2" Taurus at 1,080 FPS/381 FPE. Same 6" then 1/2" MDF setup and got 22" of penetration.
Very well done video just like all the others you do! Just a foot note to let you know that in the last four years three grizzly bears have been killed in Alaska using the 45 ACP hardball. As few as six shots and as many as eight shots were used in all three instances. Jessie on life below zero carries a 10 mm on his hip for wolves and bears in Alaska. It’s not unusual to see many men and women shopping at the grocery store with a 45 or some other caliber on their hip when they go shopping for the month. Bears even attack within the city limits of Anchorage
Very nice video! I really appreciate the comparison. I have never fired a 305 gr out of a 44 mag.I normally shoot 240 gr would like to see that comparrisson. Couple of thoughts on a real life senecio whether it is bear charging you or a a bad guy with a gun. You are not going to remember recoil, slow your brain down and make each round count. That's why bad guys that are untrained look like idiots using the retreat spray and pray technic doesn't work.
I believe that both of them are setup to handle the given situation! I would take the one that you shoot the best! By already having confidence in that particular revolver.. that's one less thing running through your brain! Now.. Mr Bear can cover 50 yards in 3 seconds! Aim low chest if he's barreling down on you.. you'd be less likely to shoot over him as he's closing the distance! That being said.. no one wants to be in the scenario.. and if that bear is actually hunting for you.. you will not know it's coming until it's too late 😮 Thank goodness.. that is the rarity! Most bears head for the hills as soon as they smell you.. let alone hear you and see you! They are not hiding behind every other tree waiting to pounce.. that would be the TIGER 🐯 Great shooting and the information was awesome too! Thanks for sharing this brother
Great Video. THATS why I choose .357mag. Maybe you could do a video on 45 colt hardcast in a Vaquero or Single action. Alot of us carry 45 colt in the woods..🍻
45 Colt in a Ruger SBH frame will shoot higher SAAMI rounds safely (would not try it with a modern Vaquero or med-framed Ruger). Running hard cast 45 Colt with .44 Mag velocity is a true killer. I'd consider it but I already have a .44 Mag Redhawk 5.5" and with 255 gr hard cast Underwood that's good for black bear defense as it is.
IYO ... would the 357 round from a 3 inch Ruger GP 100 be enuff for Black bear in GA ??? Love your Tests.. You're becoming my fav round tester/ reviewer and you almost always reply ... I know it's getting harder with all your subs....
Thanks! Yeah, I tend to get more comments than even typical channels with the same sub number. It's like my views aren't spectacular, but the engagement in conversation between people is really high, it's up there as if I had half a million subs. Just means people are loyal here which is great.
@@GunSam I watch almost everyone that pops up ... I just trust your opinions and love your approach... No Body Slamming tables or bias ... just honest commentary ... 1 question... I promise I'm not a crazed latent psycho groupie... Michigan or Minnesota??? can't figure out your accenT!!! Ohhh and 1 more... the Original question: IYO ... would the 357 round from a 3 inch Ruger GP 100 be enuff for Black bear in GA
@@jpb1231000we had no less than 15 blackies over 800 pounds harvested in PA in the time I lived up there. I always carried my 44 when I went fishing and bow hunting up there and never thought twice about it. A 44 is what I already had though. I saw way more bears digging through my garbage than what I ever did out in the woods and all I ever did was yell crazy shit and swear words at them and they ran away but when ya do see one in his house it’s a RUSH for sure and them dudes are FAST when they want to be. I know dudes who hunted them things and some took multiple shots from magnum rifles to put them down. I also knew a dude who killed one with a single shot from a 22 250. It’s all about shot placement. So I think six well placed rounds from a 357 into a bear are going to be a whole lot better than 44 magnums screaming past him but I am by no means an expert. Like I said I carried a 44 just cause I had one and I could put the first cylinder into a target about as big as my hand at about fifteen to twenty yards. Not spectacular but good enough for what I thought I might have needed. That was a long time ago and before arthritis and even then my hand hurt a few days even after a few cylinders (it was an old S&W with wood grips like dirty Harry’s but stainless). Now a days I don’t even know what would hurt worse my hand or my wallet I know BOTH would be sore till next paycheck lol. Stay safe out there brother. Always wanted a 3 inch GP I had two 6 ers and a 4 in my time and sold them all off like a broke dumba$$ will do lol.
@@jpb1231000 sure thing brother! Like I said I had a 4 inch Ruger GP100. I moved down here to Tennessee cause my wife’s from here and it’s not a frozen economic wasteland run by communists lol but I digress. I had to drive back up to PA for an emergency so I grabbed a sack of clothes and my old GP100. I picked that old Ruger up and said in my mind “this will be enough to handle anything I may encounter driving hundreds of miles through the Appalachian mountains in the middle of the night even the Flatwoods monster in West By God Virginia!!!”. And I confidently left on my merry way. That being said Rugers 10 mm 1911 looks like a beast you could probably take anything in our part of the world on with besides maybe Sasquatch lol. Take care brother!
I carried s&w .357 for 17years as my on duty weapon and unfortunately had to use it in a self defence/property defense shooting - i was hitting gang bangers at 80 to 90 ft - they were shooting at me - i was using hand loads ( 10.5 grains of Nitro Express powder ) fmj 145 grain hollow points
In the 44 mag, i have long thought that a good 250 gr Keith SWC at a moderate velocity of 1100 fps or so would do well. We know that a heavy bullet penetrates well at modest velocity. It would recoil a good deal less as well. That 305 gr load looks a lot like the old Garrett "hammerhead" load. Might be better in a heavier gun, like a 5.5" Redhawk. Was very pleased with that 357 load, because i dearly love my 686. It was my first handgun, and the last i would ever sell. Good to see that proper 9mm loads are viable as well. Here in Kalifornia we do not have grizzlies, and black bears tend 4o be avoidant. The most likely problem animal is going to be a cougar or an aggressive pig. Any good 357 JHP should work fine on them, although the hardcast should be a great option for pigs, in case the gristle playe gets in the way. I just wonder if an overeager game warden might try to ding you for not using lead free bullets, even though you are not hunting. Great test
Seems like a toss up between the 357 and 44. The 357 is less powerful but still has good penetration but follow up shots are easier due to less recoil. The 44 is more powerful but follow up shots are slower due to the heavier recoil. It would have been interesting to compare 240 grain soft points or FMJ in the 44 so see if follow up shots would be quicker than with the with 320 grain bullets and penetration depth. Thanks for another great video.
Have you tried rapid firing a 6inch Colt Anaconda 44 Magnum? Very controllable with hard recoilling ammo. It's 3 pounds and soaks up the recoil. Not a lot of fun to carry on a long hike though.
@@dimassalazar906 that's one of the problems because a defense handgun has to be carried all day long. So it has to be fairly light but the recoil has to be manageable for shot recovery. The 44 imag is marginal, but the 357 mag and 10 mm are more controllable and lighter, and they are still effective.
Yes. Overall the .357 is a better choice unless, like, you're trying to get your morning coffee and a bunch of punks are robbing the bank across the street and you tell the coffee waitress to call the beat cops but the punks try to take off before the beat cops get there so you gotta go stop them and that's when you really, really need the .44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and it will blow your head clean off as long as you remember to count your rounds unless there's a lot of chaos and you lose count. Yeah, that's when you really need the .44.
Great Video and fantastic shooting. I always felt the 357 with solid bullets is sufficient. If i went 44mag Id probably want a 6in N frame but carrying it around all day wouldn't be fun.
Gun Sam awsome video. You are shooting almost exactly what i hand load in .y ruger blackhawk. The cast lead is a very good revoler bullet. I have used both 357,and 44 mag and had very good success. Heavy lead hard cast are very deadly aginst anything. 😊😊
Gun Sam I love my 44mag ruger super Blackhawk hunter. It has a very heavy 7" barrel. With a top strap. The gun is heavy. And I shoot top hand load. It's very accurate and I carry in chest holster. It's never failed to take the deer I shoot. And my henry shoots the same load. Ide take a grizzly on with either. I love my 44 mags.
Gun Sam if you were shooting my 44 super black hunter. With full house. The heaviness would help deal with the recoil. My ruger almost weights as much as a lite rifle. . And it shoots very straight. Just ask the deer.😊 awsome gun Sam. 😊
I shot some hot hard cast at steel at my local outdoor range and dropped 2 steel plates right off the stands broke the bolts lol!!! They weren't even mad!!! Lol they did ask for me to wait awhile before bringing those back. Lol they were DoubleTap 320gr hard cast 44 mag rated at 1325fps and I was definitely getting that lol
Thanks for the video. I have just recently decided to swap our black bear loads from Buffalo Bore to Underwood. My wife carries my 2 inch Model 85 Taurus, and in a comparson test between the underwood and Buff Bore, both in 158 grain +P Hard cast lead, the BB would not stabilize in the short barrel. The underwood was fine. That did it for me. I like the nickle plating better also. I carry a 2.5 inch SW 19-3 in 357 magnum with 180 grn hard cast, and although it might handle the BB loads fine, I just like the Underwood better. I have a small box of each on the way. I'll put the Buff Bore loads into storage for some other day of possible need.
Buffalo Bore consistency of velocity, crimps and all of that along with their great boxes, makes it worth the extra cost, but in the real world none of that matters because solid bullets are less effected by tiny variations, so Underwood is pretty good for what it is and they simply work.
@@GunSam Like I said, it was the Buff Bore 38 spcl load that keyholed every shot tested with the short barrel that did it for me.Penetration was obviously minimal because of it. Of course, might not do that with every snubbie, but the Underwood did not, so it is now my choice. I do like the BB loads though. Stout stuff, and good consistency. I will save these rounds.
@@GunSam I see by the BB rounds I have, that they are very well crimped. Have you ever experienced crimp jump using Underwood hard cast 38 or 357 through a short barrel?
Great content once again, on the topic of animal defence, it seems as though the concensus is hard cast. I would love to see a hard cast vs specificaly the swift A frame in same calibre/weight/velocity
If anyone wondered why I used the Underwood 9mm+P 124 gr flat point FMJ instead of the 147 gr Hard Cast, it's because the 124+P FMJ does much better. In the past I ran the same "dangerous game" ballistic test with 1/2" MDF with Underwood's 9mm+P 147 gr Hard Cast, got about the same energy as the FMJ but got just 22" of penetration. The FMJ goes a full foot deeper, which is no surprise in that for 9mm, a 147 gr is always a reduced power load because of limited case capacity.
Have you ever tried 357 mag 158gr vs 180gr for penetration?
OK, reduced case capacity! Otherwise it wouldn´t make any sense.
I have always thought that 147 grain is heavy for 9x19. Case capacity makes sense for the 124 grain. It is the only weight I personally use in 9x19. For me, I think 124 grain is the best compromise between sectional density and velocity in 9mm.
I use federal american eagle flat nose FMJ 147g. The bigger the better, the heavier the better. In terms of power, .357 and .44 are way above 9mm.
Dang I'm rambling!!! Sorry lol that's what I get for commenting at midnight!!! Lol
Well done. I once heard a statement, "use the most powerful round that you can make consistant hits with". This video really proves that.
Its a good statement to go by, hitting with a smaller caliber accurately is usually better than hitting with a large caliber with crap accuracy and long follow up shots when it comes to stopping a charging animal. If you hit a brown bear thats charging you accurately in the head with a 22lr it will have more of a chance of stopping the bear than a .500 S&W where you hit the bear in the leg or what not and cant follow up in time. Extreme example but it fits.
@@davidca96 I know this is a old comment, but I think it's worth saying I totally agree and I will add, there is a darn good argument that volume of fire overcomes power too. Not only can you shoot more accurate with something like a 9mm +p hardcast but you can get far more accurate shots on target in a short period of time compared to something like .44mag with all the adrenaline it's likely you will be shaking you have a moving animal coming at you, what would you rather have 10 shots on target or 3, furthermore what if in the chaos of a few of those miss.. On top of all that many people likely have far more experience and familiarity with 9mm pistols they carry or use on a regular basis, a pretty compelling reason to use 9mm hard cast even for bear defense. Accuracy and rapidity of fire is greater than "power"
Long, slow, heavy for caliber bullets with a flat nose and sharp should will wreck everything. Bigger holes are certainly better
But… ua-cam.com/video/T6kUvi72s0Y/v-deo.html
Dude it's videos like this that make me happy to be a 357 mag fan
I don't know how I never found your channel before yesterday. I appreciate your efforts at making these informative videos. The editing and split screen stuff is awesome. You even have a voice for narrating. Great work!
Thank you
Yea the split screen stuff is definitely cool. I always wanna see the target when ppl chronograph their shots.
One thing to note, in the majority of bear attacks where a pistol/revolver was used, the bear is already on top of the victim and has caused injury. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t practice at range, just that you may want to consider how you carry and deploy your weapon when completely caught off guard. I imagine it’s like trying to draw your handgun while under a mattress that’s already biting and clawing you.
Filmed 6/1/23
Youve clearly demonstrated that flat nose ammo is the way to go. It flies much straighter. I also prefer moderate to maybe full power 240gr .44 for the woods. Its heavy and powerful enough.
I personally run hard cast 255 gr Underwood .44 Mag through my Ruger Redhawk 5.5" - very manageable (average sized male hands), highly accurate and plenty of power. I agree with a somewhat milder load - 255 gr is just right for me, 305 gr (I tried Grizzly ammo) and that one IS too stout for my taste for sure.
WIDE MEPLAT IS WHERE ITS AT!
All in HARD CAST!! ❤❤❤❤❤
That .357 load is what I carry in my model 28 when out hiking. It’s great stuff!
See my comment above. Buffalo Bore 180 gr gas check Chrony a legit 1400 fps plus from a 4 inch barrel. Controllable , and puts a 4 inch 357 into 41 mag power range
Control with penetration is way to go. I read about alaskan comments from game wardens most people can't shoot hand canon's well enough for bullet placement because of recoil and people get killed by bear then it dies from wounds, because shooter is not accurate enough with shot placement with a gun they can't control. Very good and well done video thanks 😊 for doing them!
Gold dots are one of the few rounds i trust in about any self defense caliber. They have just always worked for me.
You are a real trooper shooting thst 305 grain hardcast in that smaller 44mag! 😳😬👍🏻
Mr. Gun Sam sacrifices hand for humanity.
Very, very good demonstration and comparison. Many of us would make the assumption that the bigger the better. More power is "always" a good rule to follow. When a gent of your size and experience concludes that a lower power offering to put shots on target is "better", that speaks volumes. A less experienced shooter would likely struggle to put good shots on target in that stressful of a situation. I like a 240 XTP with 23.5gr of H110 for about everything in our 44s. The 3" 629 is a real handful and loses a substantial amount of velocity. The 6" isn't bad at all with practice.
Yes, I run Underwood 255 gr hard cast in .44 Mag out of my Ruger Redhawk 5.5" barrel and I'd say the exact same it isn't so bad, very accurate and plenty of power.
Hi Sam, great test. Hardcast videos are my favorite. Thanks
Nice demo! Interesting that the 357 and 44 bullets had the same length/SD, and they penetrated almost exactly the same---just like they're supposed to. The 357 looks quite viable for bear defense and probably a better choice for the average shooter. The 44 definitely has a lot more power, though.
I would agree, 357. Is good for anything short of grizzly, kodiak and polar bears. And even then.. if you had to dump a cylinder of 357. Into a grizzly or polar. I'm pretty sure it'd do the job. 10mm will do it and it's basically a semi auto 357.
@@youngboyharless9769In the Arctic, researchers doing studies were charged by a large Polar Bear. One of them was armed with a .357 Magnum. It only took 3 shots to stop and kill it.
327 Federal Magnum Dangerous Animal Defense !! Hard Cast Lead !!
great videos Sam
357 remains king!
Very cool video today, thanks for the work!
Dude your channel is awesome! Keep up the good work and keep showing revolver love.
I like a 148 grain hard cast DEWC in my 38 "kit" gun at about 900 fps. Mild recoil and deep penetration.
A Glock 20 with dangerous game loads would've been fun to see in that lineup. Great shooting @ 75yds with your .357.
Wowzers, congratulations on 60K subs, Sam!!! That's a lot of sandwiches
Those magnums are boss! Thanks for the video
Interesting. I have some of that Underwood 180gr hardcast. I'll say it's not noticably harder-shooting than your typical full-power 158gr SJHP type round. I still wouldn't feel under-gunned at all with it. For me I don't have a ton of interest in 44mag.
For me, the 180 gr has more push than lighter ammo, but it's less snappy. Feels overall like most other ammo in terms of overall recoil, just more muzzle rise.
Great I’ve been waiting for this test !
Gun Sam I've got to say , I don't know how you do it ? Your ability to hit at 75yds is outstanding ! Aside from that , the video is awesome . Thanks for informing us .
75 yards with the 357 mag was good shooting and great ammo consistency.
Yes, you definitely need a sight adjustment from 240s to over 300 grain bullets in 44. Also it seemed you were shooting right with 44 at 25 yards. Could be you, could be sights.
Either way I enjoyed watching, thanks
Interesting...Best “Big Game” comparison I’ve seen yet...
I'm impressed! I use the plus p hard nose in my 9mm when I'm in the back woods. I didn't think it wold travel that far. There are no grizzly bears where I live in Backwoods North Carolina, just an occasional Sasquatch
Definitely subbed! Loved how intricate with as many details as could be! Great content! Keep it up!
Thanks!
Great comparison video. I've been loading Missouri Bullet Co Elmer K 240 hardcast over 10gr unique. 1240fps and good penetration in milk jugs. I wonder how they'd do in your gel setup? Let me know if you want some ammo/components to try out.
I cast a 265gr rnfp Ranch Dog designed bullet for my .44 mag. This bullet is cast from 50/50 Linotype/wheelweight lead, then water dropped to maximize hardness. Loaded with 24gr of H110 (This is a very hot load, but is safe in MY gun), giving me a muzzle velocity of 1500fps out of my 7.5" barrel. Talk about an absolute deer slayer! No need for expansion with a .44, just the right bullet design.
Do any 41 magnum?
@@anonymousf454 Not yet, but I did just buy a 10mm. If it will feed a 200gr RFN bullet, that's likely what I will cast for it.
I always carry a picnic basket in Bear Country. Gives me a chance to get back while the Bear puts down the picnic blanket.
that was nice to see the different 9mm loads right after each other
Great comparison of different cartridges.
Great tests ! That’s the bullet I carry in my .357 !
In my .44 I carry 310 grain hard cast WFN !
The 180 grain has an advantage over the 9 mm weight !
The .44 in my testing does more damage than the .357 does and some of that is because the .44 is larger diameter!
So tearing a larger hole seems a + to my targets!
I’m not saying the .357 with 180 grain hard cast wouldn’t do the task at hand because it will !
I'm not totally surprised by the results although that 9mm+P did better than I expected. I've heard people who live in big bear country say they carry a .357 mag because of exactly what you showed. I've not fired any of the 305 grain Underwood from my 629 but I imagine its a handful to try and control, especially in a high stress moment like a bear charging you. I kind of want to get some just to see now.
my Ruger Alaskan shoots 44mag. it's pretty tough to get multiple shots off quickly and stay on target. It's also moderately unpleasant to practice with. I often find myself carrying a 10mm (G20 or 1911) because I'm far more likely to get the target multiple times. (note: no Griz in my part of Idaho)
I love the .44 mag/357 content!
Not bad with that beast. Large bore. Big holes. 300 grain bullets should stop pretty much anything. You have convinced me to buy shooting gloves.
Good job on this, very informative.
Imo putting that 305gr through a 6in barrel or longer is the way to go with that round.
I'm thinking lever action carbines.
Really makes ya realize sometimes bigger isn’t always better. What works, works.
Beautiful testing. I have a few of the Underwood loads, much cheaper than the Buffalo Bore stuff, and works well enough for me. If I want more power, I load my own, but for factory rounds these are pretty good.
Awesome demonstration as always love your test I've seen a few other people but your the best from what I can find. 👍 🫡 🤜🤛
I do like your gell block setup and your excellent presentation
+ clear thinking.
Thank you.
Great video. I appreciate your reviews. Once again it comes down to the old adage of carry what you can comfortably shoot and get hits with on target. I'd prefer a .357 mag hole in the bear than a .44 mag hole in a tree.
Its funny because a .357 magnum is actually .357 in cartridge diameter whereas a .44 magnum is .429 inches in diameter. you would only looking at .072 in dia projectile difference, albeit Significant in power performance.
Shout out to vortex nation podcast for that.
The surface area of the .429 is nearly 1.5× bigger than the .357. Hits on target are what count, AND since the bear is already committed to the attack, more hits may be needed, so hits become more important as the distance closes. That said, to get the sectional density of the .429 305 grain bullet, one would need to be shooting a 212 grain from a 357.
@@williamgaines9784 Shoot until the threat isn't a threat!
@@moshkid16 👍
You are way tougher than I am. Absolutely no way I would shoot that 44 load in a Model 69! Might try it in a 7-1/2 Ruger SRH though. Amazing channel!
I run 255 gr Underwood hard cast in .44 Mag out of my 5.5" Redhawk and it's very manageable, accurate and plenty of power. 305 gr was too stout for me.
The 44 magnum in that model 69 you need it quad ported to keep the barrel down. You must be using the best setup and test porting that beast. A taller front sight will help you with hitting at 75 yards with that model 69 too.
Ah YES! - the video I was looking for. I have all the calibers you tested. Let's talk about the .44 Mag. I have a Ruger Redhawk 5.5" (basically 6") barrel and it is highly accurate. I practice with it around 7-15 yards as that is about what I would expect in an encounter with a dangerous predator (black bear specifically for me). I had no problems getting tight grouping, a tad less with double action but still well within black on a "pie plate." 305 gr IS narly (I have Grizzly loads in that) and I don't like it - honestly a bit too strong for me. Even the 270 gr jacketed SP flat nose by Buffalo Bore is REALLY strong, so I go with Underwood 255 gr hard cast in .44 Mag and it's absolutely GREAT! Very manageable (for me) average size male hands I am guessing, recoil isn't so bad, very accurate and plenty of power. I use it as my hiker/hunter backup woods carry and don't go in the big bear woods without it. I trust mine, BUT it does require practice. May want to try the 255 gr hard cast Underwood in .44 Mag and retest this - I think you'll have better results and I'd bet a beer on it. Sam, great videos thanks for taking the time, effort and cost to give us a quality presentation.
Hi gun Sam now you are talking what I carry revolvers for most of the time. I carry my ruger security 6 4" 357 in town. In the woods I carry my ruger super Blackhawk hunter 7" 44 mag using handloaded 240 grn hardcast heat treat bullets fom Montana bullet works. Full power imr 4227. . And also my ruger blackhawk 357 7". Both revolver are very accurate. I shot a deer last season with the 44. And the bullet went completely through the deer and came out near its tail. It was close to 40 yard shot. The deer went nowhere. I really like hardcast bullets for hunting. 😊😊 God bless. This is a awsome video. You are a good shot. Thank you😊
I like 357 But I'm pausing right at the beginning to say that load needs more meplat to compete with 44. Especially that particular 44 has very generous meplat.
Sam. Thx for another good presentation. This video shows that bigger is NOT always better in Ammo caliber if you can't put rounds on target. The 44 disappointed & surprised me in the penetration gel test. I wonder if a longer barrel on the 44 would have produced different accuracy? Anyway, Thx again for a job well done!
i would take 4 of 5 on target with the 44 any day over 5 of 5 with the 357 against a bear. and yes a longer barrel and heavier frame makes a world of difference. it's the difference between hunting and target shooting. 7½" super redhawk has no problem throwing 350gr painlessly
@@boedude8496 I agree. I put that out for discussion and thank you for your input. I like the S&W 8 3/8 barrel but that is a personal preference. I also prefer the 454 Casual over the 44 Mag.
yes, the 454 is quite a bit more powerful. it was my first firearm purchase, back in '88. now i have the marlin 1894 to go with it. now waiting to get the 460 pair. i like it better than the 500 for some reason
@@boedude8496 Nice. I have the S&W 460 and 500 Both in 10 inches. I like the 460 better also. The 460 is flatter shooting and hits almost as hard as the 500. Have a good day.
Dude, you must have balls of titanium. I'm not one bit recoil shy but I'm not going to put over a couple of rounds of those 305 gr monsters through a double action revolver. A 6" Ruger Super Blackhawk is another story. That would be a fantastic round for close range deer hunting. A single action is much more pleasant to shoot than a double action. Growing up I heard all the stories of how a 44 mag would break your wrist and all of the usual bs. I bought a imported 6" 44 mag single action several years ago and after the first shot with a full house 240 gr SP I was wondering where all of the unholy recoil was. Sure it had some kick, but it wasn't painful in the least. The way a single action is designed, it's supposed to roll in the hand and that makes it easy to shoot without beating your palm blue. After a little practice I could run several boxes through it before my wrist started getting sore. If you try to fight the gun and have a death grip on it, sure it'll be a rough. You're supposed to let the gun roll back and up in your hand and then it's a pleasure to shoot. Someday I'll have a Ruger GP100 357 with a 4" barrel and that will become my next EDC. I absolutely love my 4" 1911 45, but the GP100 357 is more versatile, effective and reliable than any semi auto, including the 10mm. A Ruger revolver is built like a tank and has the best warranty on the market, plus their customer service is second to none. I learned to shoot with a revolver and shot them for years before semi autos were even a thing here in the US. If a revolver was good enough for people like Wyatt Earp and all of the old west gun fighters and every branch of law enforcement until the late 80's, it's definitely good enough for me.
If Wyatt Earp was in his same role in our time, he would be carrying a 9mm or .40sw. He used modern tech then, why wouldn’t he now?
I've shot 305 gr (Grizzly ammo) through my .44 Mag 5.5" Redhawk and it is too stout for me. However, the 255 gr Underwood hard cast is comfortable to shoot, highly accurate and plenty of power. I was debating single/double action when I bought mine and ultimately went with double action in case I got injured during an attack and couldn't cock the hammer. Rugers ARE built tough, which is why I went with one.
GS. Good and interesting video. Thanks for sharing. Take care.
The steel was jumping around with the .44 magnum because you were hitting the edge of it. Probably wouldn’t have jumped around as much if you were getting center mass hits with the .44 magnum.
But this video really confirmed my own experience that .357 magnum is the better revolver for an average person (and I’m very average).
Love the .357 in a good heavy steel Ruger.
Can you Imagine what 44 MAGNUM 305 GR HARD CAST would do in a LEVER ACTION RIFLE with a 17 inch BARREL
"dinner on the plate" love it lol. What part of Michigan are you in Sam? Not a stalker, lol, but im originally from Millington. Really miss the outdoor life up there
The 180gr WFN is mighty impressive out of your 686!
I've carried the Buffalo Bore version in my 386 Mtn Lite as a lightweight hunting backup when elk hunting in the Rockies. 23oz when loaded with 7rnds. Kicks like hell but very accurate. I get 1180fps out of the 386's 3in barrel.
327 Fed Mag Hard Cast Keith 130 Grain !!
👍😊 I’ve shot one of those 305s through a super Blackhawk 4 5/8 barrel it was a hand full.
Sam , you should really try a Rhino in 357 . I have had surgery on both my hands and out of desperation it picked up a Rhino in 357 magnum. Because it reduced some of the recoil . It allows me to still fire a magnum.
My go to bear load is 44 mag Buffalo Bore 265 dangerous game load, 1425 fps and 1195 ft lbs of energy. My woods 44 is a 629 4" Magna-ported, It had an action job. I love how fast i can get back on target with this combo. I do have a Colt 8" Anaconda and 8 3/8" Raging bull, these are good hunting guns but as a woods gun my 629 rides along. My son has shot one round of the buffalo bore through his 69, it turned his hand pink. Watching you shoot that 69 said you are devoted to trails and tribulations. Hope the sting leaves soon. Just love the 44!
Bro, the best setup for practical real-world bear testing would be hiring a Russian (Because, is..... Bear!) wearing a half-bear, half-pig costume to charge you in slow motion, assisted by rocket propulsion, lured out by a pic-i-nic basket filled with watermelon and vodka, while surrounded by a speaker system playing Meatloaf's "I would do anything for love (but I won't do that)". Anything else isn't a test providing actionable real-world data.
I had to. Your comment about the pulley system got the gears turning.😂
This video was great information for my study on a bear gun, thank you!
This 357 ammunition is what I bought for S.H.T.F.; knowing it will penetrate and hit hard as hell. It’s good to have a variety of ammunition in each caliber, for different purposes.
Awesome video! You mightcwant to try Buffalo Bore's 9mm Outdoor load. There's a testimony from a customer on the sire describing a successful emergency take-down of a brown bear. Pretty compelling and unexpected!
❤Handguns for backup but would prefer a 12-gauge and also 30 caliber rifle for big threats
Another excellent test!...thanks for sharing 👍
My wrist hurt just watching you! 👍
Sam… love these videos! Recently purchased a Henry Model X in 357. There are some vids of UA-camrs testing out carbine’s chambered in pistol calibers. It would be awesome if my favorite gun channel… wink.. wink… was able to do some testing of his own!! 😁💪🏽😎
Here’s to hoping…
Its all about practice if you know youll be around big bears practice practice then practice more. I couldn't shoot my 47t Limbaugh very good wheni first got it even though i was shooting a 350gr 46 colt at 1200fps very good . After some practice i could shoot a 430gr 475 almost as good as my 45. The right tool for the job and practice is all it takes
Glad you tested these rounds and put a few myths to rest with this presentation. Well done Sam! ♠️🎩🎯🎱🇺🇸🏁🇺🇦🔱🌻🏵️💮🌸🌼🏴☠️🏹
Thanks
Great video.
With the 300 or above 44 bullets at full velocity, you will need a higher front sight. With a 6 inch Model 29 S&W, my 300 gr full loads shot 18 inches high at 25 yards.
On my 2 and 3/4 inch S&W M69, I added a set of Pachmayr Diamond grips. The full load recoil is still there but the grips take the sting out with 240 and 250 gr loads. Havent tried the 300 gr bullets yet. This revolver is meant as a backup gun and a woods walker. I would go with the SWC 240 gr 44 Mag all copper loads for protection from animals.
BTW, Elmer Keith called the 357 Magnum "puny".
I will NEVER own another .44 mag with less than a 6 inch barrel. I carried a S&W 629 with a 2.5 inch barrel for years, and I hated that gun. Dreaded pulling the trigger. I sold it and bought a Taurus 627 357 mag with a 6.5 inch ported barrel a couple of years ago. I love it!
But I actually got mine because I was looking for a .44 Special with a 4" barrel. I figured this was just right, not a lot of intent to shoot magnum ammo.
Very good video and figured before watching the results the 357 w Hard Cast would preform well and the 44 mag would out preform, was interesting. KE is 1/2MV Sq and that will be a game changer if a large game. I carry underwood 200 hard cast in my Glock 27 when outdoors but sometimes carry the 629 with 305's if I get that feeling.
Really enjoyed this video. You do great work. And I wouldn't want to shoot a 44 Magnum either! Biggest surprise was in the 9mm & how the different bullet designs performed. That flat nose 9mm +P did really good. I wonder how it would compare to some of the popular 9mm 147 gr. hard cast bullets in penetration out of a 4" barrel. I saw a couple of videos on the .41 Magnum & how it has 25% less recoil over the 44 Magnum while out penetrating it. Too bad .41 Magnum isn't more popular.
Thanks, the Underwood 124+P flat nose did 1,199 FPS/396 FPE in this 3.2" pistol. I don't think I ran the 147 gr hard cast in this pistol, but the Buffalo Bore 147 gr+P hard cast did 1,094 FPS/391 FPE in my 5" pistol, and I did the same test a year ago with about 5-6" gel then 1/2" MDF and it penetrated to just 20.5" compared to the 34" that the Underwood flat nose 124+P got.
I just found more data, I did run the Underwood 147+P gr hard cast in this 3.2" Taurus at 1,080 FPS/381 FPE. Same 6" then 1/2" MDF setup and got 22" of penetration.
Very well done video just like all the others you do! Just a foot note to let you know that in the last four years three grizzly bears have been killed in Alaska using the 45 ACP hardball. As few as six shots and as many as eight shots were used in all three instances. Jessie on life below zero carries a 10 mm on his hip for wolves and bears in Alaska. It’s not unusual to see many men and women shopping at the grocery store with a 45 or some other caliber on their hip when they go shopping for the month. Bears even attack within the city limits of Anchorage
Very nice video! I really appreciate the comparison. I have never fired a 305 gr out of a 44 mag.I normally shoot 240 gr would like to see that comparrisson. Couple of thoughts on a real life senecio whether it is bear charging you or a a bad guy with a gun. You are not going to remember recoil, slow your brain down and make each round count. That's why bad guys that are untrained look like idiots using the retreat spray and pray technic doesn't work.
Loved the 9mm test, similar to what I want to see. I want a comparison between jsp, hollowpoint, and hardcast. Maybe .44 mag
I believe that both of them are setup to handle the given situation! I would take the one that you shoot the best!
By already having confidence in that particular revolver.. that's one less thing running through your brain!
Now.. Mr Bear can cover 50 yards in 3 seconds! Aim low chest if he's barreling down on you.. you'd be less likely to shoot over him as he's closing the distance!
That being said.. no one wants to be in the scenario.. and if that bear is actually hunting for you.. you will not know it's coming until it's too late 😮
Thank goodness.. that is the rarity! Most bears head for the hills as soon as they smell you.. let alone hear you and see you!
They are not hiding behind every other tree waiting to pounce.. that would be the TIGER 🐯
Great shooting and the information was awesome too!
Thanks for sharing this brother
Great Video. THATS why I choose .357mag.
Maybe you could do a video on 45 colt hardcast in a Vaquero or Single action. Alot of us carry 45 colt in the woods..🍻
45 Colt in a Ruger SBH frame will shoot higher SAAMI rounds safely (would not try it with a modern Vaquero or med-framed Ruger). Running hard cast 45 Colt with .44 Mag velocity is a true killer. I'd consider it but I already have a .44 Mag Redhawk 5.5" and with 255 gr hard cast Underwood that's good for black bear defense as it is.
You should've used your 44 Special hard cast, just to see the penetration.
Yes that would have been interesting to see how deep it would get. More controllable than the 44 mag but bigger hole than the 357.
Just a FYI in relation to this topic: Ballistic Dummy Labs now has Grizzly Bear Heads.
IYO ... would the 357 round from a 3 inch Ruger GP 100 be enuff for Black bear in GA ??? Love your Tests.. You're becoming my fav round tester/ reviewer and you almost always reply ... I know it's getting harder with all your subs....
Thanks! Yeah, I tend to get more comments than even typical channels with the same sub number. It's like my views aren't spectacular, but the engagement in conversation between people is really high, it's up there as if I had half a million subs. Just means people are loyal here which is great.
@@GunSam I watch almost everyone that pops up ...
I just trust your opinions and love your approach...
No Body Slamming tables or bias ... just honest commentary ...
1 question... I promise I'm not a crazed latent psycho groupie...
Michigan or Minnesota??? can't figure out your accenT!!!
Ohhh and 1 more... the Original question:
IYO ... would the 357 round from a 3 inch Ruger GP 100 be enuff for Black bear in GA
@@jpb1231000we had no less than 15 blackies over 800 pounds harvested in PA in the time I lived up there. I always carried my 44 when I went fishing and bow hunting up there and never thought twice about it. A 44 is what I already had though. I saw way more bears digging through my garbage than what I ever did out in the woods and all I ever did was yell crazy shit and swear words at them and they ran away but when ya do see one in his house it’s a RUSH for sure and them dudes are FAST when they want to be. I know dudes who hunted them things and some took multiple shots from magnum rifles to put them down. I also knew a dude who killed one with a single shot from a 22 250. It’s all about shot placement. So I think six well placed rounds from a 357 into a bear are going to be a whole lot better than 44 magnums screaming past him but I am by no means an expert. Like I said I carried a 44 just cause I had one and I could put the first cylinder into a target about as big as my hand at about fifteen to twenty yards. Not spectacular but good enough for what I thought I might have needed. That was a long time ago and before arthritis and even then my hand hurt a few days even after a few cylinders (it was an old S&W with wood grips like dirty Harry’s but stainless). Now a days I don’t even know what would hurt worse my hand or my wallet I know BOTH would be sore till next paycheck lol. Stay safe out there brother. Always wanted a 3 inch GP I had two 6 ers and a 4 in my time and sold them all off like a broke dumba$$ will do lol.
@@flapthecrapster Thanks 4 the Reply!
@@jpb1231000 sure thing brother! Like I said I had a 4 inch Ruger GP100. I moved down here to Tennessee cause my wife’s from here and it’s not a frozen economic wasteland run by communists lol but I digress. I had to drive back up to PA for an emergency so I grabbed a sack of clothes and my old GP100. I picked that old Ruger up and said in my mind “this will be enough to handle anything I may encounter driving hundreds of miles through the Appalachian mountains in the middle of the night even the Flatwoods monster in West By God Virginia!!!”. And I confidently left on my merry way. That being said Rugers 10 mm 1911 looks like a beast you could probably take anything in our part of the world on with besides maybe Sasquatch lol. Take care brother!
I carried s&w .357 for 17years as my on duty weapon and unfortunately had to use it in a self defence/property defense shooting - i was hitting gang bangers at 80 to 90 ft - they were shooting at me - i was using hand loads ( 10.5 grains of Nitro Express powder ) fmj 145 grain hollow points
Very interesting. Thanks. The .44 Mag did really wallop that target, but I'd wear gloves to shoot it.
In the 44 mag, i have long thought that a good 250 gr Keith SWC at a moderate velocity of 1100 fps or so would do well. We know that a heavy bullet penetrates well at modest velocity. It would recoil a good deal less as well. That 305 gr load looks a lot like the old Garrett "hammerhead" load. Might be better in a heavier gun, like a 5.5" Redhawk. Was very pleased with that 357 load, because i dearly love my 686. It was my first handgun, and the last i would ever sell. Good to see that proper 9mm loads are viable as well. Here in Kalifornia we do not have grizzlies, and black bears tend 4o be avoidant. The most likely problem animal is going to be a cougar or an aggressive pig. Any good 357 JHP should work fine on them, although the hardcast should be a great option for pigs, in case the gristle playe gets in the way. I just wonder if an overeager game warden might try to ding you for not using lead free bullets, even though you are not hunting. Great test
Imagine if the .44 produced that thunderclap sound you hear in the Dirty Harry movies
Seems like a toss up between the 357 and 44. The 357 is less powerful but still has good penetration but follow up shots are easier due to less recoil. The 44 is more powerful but follow up shots are slower due to the heavier recoil. It would have been interesting to compare 240 grain soft points or FMJ in the 44 so see if follow up shots would be quicker than with the with 320 grain bullets and penetration depth. Thanks for another great video.
Have you tried rapid firing a 6inch Colt Anaconda 44 Magnum? Very controllable with hard recoilling ammo. It's 3 pounds and soaks up the recoil. Not a lot of fun to carry on a long hike though.
@@dimassalazar906 that's one of the problems because a defense handgun has to be carried all day long. So it has to be fairly light but the recoil has to be manageable for shot recovery. The 44 imag is marginal, but the 357 mag and 10 mm are more controllable and lighter, and they are still effective.
I carry the 265 mono metal in a model 69 when hunting in bear country. This would be a decent second option if I ever run out of that
Yes. Overall the .357 is a better choice unless, like, you're trying to get your morning coffee and a bunch of punks are robbing the bank across the street and you tell the coffee waitress to call the beat cops but the punks try to take off before the beat cops get there so you gotta go stop them and that's when you really, really need the .44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and it will blow your head clean off as long as you remember to count your rounds unless there's a lot of chaos and you lose count. Yeah, that's when you really need the .44.
Great Video and fantastic shooting. I always felt the 357 with solid bullets is sufficient. If i went 44mag Id probably want a 6in N frame but carrying it around all day wouldn't be fun.
Gun Sam awsome video. You are shooting almost exactly what i hand load in .y ruger blackhawk. The cast lead is a very good revoler bullet. I have used both 357,and 44 mag and had very good success. Heavy lead hard cast are very deadly aginst anything. 😊😊
Gun Sam I love my 44mag ruger super Blackhawk hunter. It has a very heavy 7" barrel. With a top strap. The gun is heavy. And I shoot top hand load. It's very accurate and I carry in chest holster. It's never failed to take the deer I shoot. And my henry shoots the same load. Ide take a grizzly on with either. I love my 44 mags.
Gun Sam 44mag with real mag loads ain't for sissys 13:50
Gun Sam if you were shooting my 44 super black hunter. With full house. The heaviness would help deal with the recoil. My ruger almost weights as much as a lite rifle. . And it shoots very straight. Just ask the deer.😊 awsome gun Sam. 😊
I shot some hot hard cast at steel at my local outdoor range and dropped 2 steel plates right off the stands broke the bolts lol!!! They weren't even mad!!! Lol they did ask for me to wait awhile before bringing those back. Lol they were DoubleTap 320gr hard cast 44 mag rated at 1325fps and I was definitely getting that lol
Thanks for the video.
I have just recently decided to swap our black bear loads from Buffalo Bore to Underwood. My wife carries my 2 inch Model 85 Taurus, and in a comparson test between the underwood and Buff Bore, both in 158 grain +P Hard cast lead, the BB would not stabilize in the short barrel. The underwood was fine. That did it for me. I like the nickle plating better also. I carry a 2.5 inch SW 19-3 in 357 magnum with 180 grn hard cast, and although it might handle the BB loads fine, I just like the Underwood better. I have a small box of each on the way. I'll put the Buff Bore loads into storage for some other day of possible need.
Buffalo Bore consistency of velocity, crimps and all of that along with their great boxes, makes it worth the extra cost, but in the real world none of that matters because solid bullets are less effected by tiny variations, so Underwood is pretty good for what it is and they simply work.
@@GunSam Like I said, it was the Buff Bore 38 spcl load that keyholed every shot tested with the short barrel that did it for me.Penetration was obviously minimal because of it. Of course, might not do that with every snubbie, but the Underwood did not, so it is now my choice. I do like the BB loads though. Stout stuff, and good consistency. I will save these rounds.
@@GunSam I see by the BB rounds I have, that they are very well crimped. Have you ever experienced crimp jump using Underwood hard cast 38 or 357 through a short barrel?
There is video to do, short barrel vs long with same caliber? 38/357 44/44M 2 inch vs 6 inch ?.. Thanks again Sam.
I have Taurus Tracker RT627 ,357 Power e Control.... Simply The best
Great content once again, on the topic of animal defence, it seems as though the concensus is hard cast. I would love to see a hard cast vs specificaly the swift A frame in same calibre/weight/velocity