Check out the hevORT. that one is a solid competitor for the voron, and I'd argue it's even faster. Search it on UA-cam, the guy who is developing it has a channel dedicated to it.
I don't know if this is such a good decision to use an Ali kit from the beginning, then still build in old nylon to shoot a review. Hope the 200 orders on Ali-Express don't cause problems and give Voron a bad reputation. Now that it's getting "comerz
Great shout out to Nero3dp. He's a very helpful guy and is very knowledgeable with Klipper and all. The vorons. He has helped me out with at least 3 of my builds.
Nero's content is a goldmine for anyone into 3D printing. His videos and streams have really made me realize just how high the untapped speed and quality potential in FDM 3D printing is - even by just installing Klipper onto bed slinger, you've made a huge stride in speed and quality. I almost think the Prusa being viewed as the quintessential prosumer printer has caused people to become complacent. So many people have them, and I really think this has caused its level of quality to become a sort of gold standard - a far too low gold standard.
Great video and thanks for the shoutout! Glad the machine is working well for ya, sorry to hear about the creep issues, currently planning a V1.8 build for dedicated higher temp plastics, was leaning toward CF nylon as well but will have to do some more testing it looks like :P Just wait till you get some fresh parts and a full tune it on, its going to really fly.
@@CanuckCreator What about CarbonX™ PA6+CF (Gen3), can be printed with a all metal extruder at 240 - 270 degress and have Deflection Temperature of 147 degress.
It’s nice for popular influencers like you to give a shot out on the Voron project, this community is just getting more and more momentum, can’t wait to settle in my new place and start building myself one!
I have a feeling it's going to get a lot more press. After finding out about it a few months ago I have seen it mentioned a lot. Not sure if I just notice the mentions because now I know what the name is, but it does feel like people are talking about it a lot. I think the main issue that it really is not a project suitable for most people. It takes a lot of research for parts and assembly, tuning, and it's relatively expensive. But I am certainly planning to build one eventually. 2.4 is a dream machine for me, but might be too much printer for my needs. This looks too small, but is also really tempting for the size and cost reduction and still getting a fun project.
The simple reason is that most company send free printers and even pay youtube content creators to review their printers. Since this is non commercial open source project if a youtube channel review it, it means they have to pay for everything. And that's why I love this channel!
I only found out about it yesterday. I do not need one as I've already got two printers that cover my needs adequately. But it still doesn't stop me kind of *wanting* one.
Great review as always Stephan. It's good to hear comments/suggestions from first time builders to let us know what areas we can improve! Looking forward to your creep tests :)
Awesome! I am so glad that awareness towards performant DIY open source printers is raising more and more. Voron, Annex Engineering and my personnal project the HevORT are all very capable printers that are laying the path for what I believe to be the future of hobbyist FDM printing. Thank you for this review! keep up the good work, your videos are bringing so much value to this hpbby :)
All these DIY, state-of-the-art FDM printers are made by hobbyists instead of corporations, it’s utterly ridiculous and I like it! I guess this is what you get from a community made of tinkerers and engineers lol
I just started to build a Voron 2.4, and got the parts from the same seller on aliexpress. There is something therapeutic about building this machine. The zero is so cute and functional, glad you show cased it.
Got the Kit from Formbot and it came within a week. Communication was great for special wishes like a dragon hot end is stead of the standard. It came complete with a lot of extra screws and connectors. Absolutely great. Can only recommend this dealer..
It's really cool to see a Voron featured on one of the more well known 3D channels (though I think Nero will be there one day); they really are great machines and fun to build. ABS all the way. I had never used ABS before preparing a Voron build, and just assumed I could use something like PETG. Once I finally made the switch to ABS, it was much smoother sailing.
I´m so impressed by the Voron printers. Unbelievable they are open source and engineered so well. Good job building one. I would totally flip out having to re-assemble it because of material failure. Thumbs up for your effort and endurance. Nice build. Cheers!
I also have the part cooling fan on, but on low speed, when printing ABS on my Hypercube. It results in much much better prints than no cooling. I've printed hundreds of functional parts that way for several years. Not sure why so many people are claiming ABS should never be cooled.
I have an open frame printer and I had to use a little part cooling fan for ABS. Otherwise the next little gust of air movement warps and cracks the print. Higher temperature of the print improves bonding, but consistent temperature is more important.
I’ve been longing for a 2.4 for awhile now, but you have convinced me to look at the other models and go a bit smaller. Thanks for posting, can’t wait to see updates on your experiences with it!
When I discovers Nero’s channel I changed my Creality CR-10 and my Creativity Elf to Klipper and what a difference! A totally different machine, the best upgrade so far!
Looks like an awesome little machine! And you’re right... that 300x300x300 work envelope is handy when you need it... but 90%+ of parts are under the 100 cube size. Now I want a small machine, too ☺️
Nice video! Good luck with your 10 minute Bency. My 1st printer was a custom build printer I baught from a company that does 3D stuff. I paid roughly $200 for my 120x120x120 coreXY printer. I had a standard board that finally gave way a year ago. But before that I used it for prototyping nosecones for model rockets. I even printed parts to fix kitchen cuboard's and stuff. As always I find your videos enducational, Entertaining and inovative. Sorry for the spelling. English is a 2nd language..
I've had a look at the voron family for a while and the V0 was really interesting to me. As soon as you mentioned your kit in the Meltzone Podcasts I couldn't resist it anymore - it arrived last friday 👍
The recommended material to use is ABS/ASA. There has already been a lot of testing of these printers before they get to release! Why not save yourself the headache and just use the right material?
Conforming to baseline every now and then - especially after a sound failure and still having no better guess - is totally ok and for a optimization nerd a true sign of being an optimization nerd, as it can enable new realizations just by not being grindy in method.
Absolutely incredible! It doesn't even look real while printing that fast! Also... I'm SUPER excited for the creep testing. It's an issue I've been dealing with in my functional prints for a while.
All vorons parts should be printed in ABS, they warn against using other materials. There are numerous stories on the voron discord channel of people using different materials and then having to do a complete rebuild, like yourself. Don't make the same mistake twice .
At least personally, I try to avoid ABS whenever possible. When I was researching my Voron build it was one of the first things I looked into. However, after a while I concluded that the Voron is really an ABS forward design and there's not much support in the community for alternatives, with variants like ABS+ or ASA being the only exception.
@@grahambell5847 Vorons as designed are structured correctly for ABS. Using CF or fiber-fill media doesn't seem to provide any advantage to the printer. Using an accelerometer to tune pressure advance yields a printer with little to no resonance artifacts even at high speed.
Stefan, don't mess around. You need a baseline. Print the parts out of ABS or ABS+. Not only is it in the documentation as the only supported materials, but they are known to work. You need a baseline - maybe stiffer material will make things slower.
100% agree. There are very few videos about them, yet, they seem to be very high-end machines at a mid-tier price. I'm guessing it's because they don't offer a kit for it so a lot of the UA-cam channels don't want to have to deal with sourcing a bunch of parts and then spending a week printing parts and then 2-3 days assembling the machine. I guess if youtube is your job, you can't commit half a month to 1 build
@@nathan1sixteen Thanks for letting me realize all these videos are just hard cold businesses. I think there are ways to keep their turnover rates high if they are really keen to do it: There is no labor involved by only talking about it. Or it wouldn’t be really hard to borrow one from the community.
@@nathan1sixteen There are few companies that sell Voron kit, but you have to go over the Voron discord to see the vendors. also if you don't want to print your parts, Voron community has print in forward, where someone that has been approved to print good functional parts can print it for you. and yes you have to build it, so it is not for everyone. But if you build it, you can fix it, because you know everything about the printer.
Many thanks for the insights Stefan, very useful! And 🤔 very interesting with sagging of the parts over time. I’m also testing now some other similar filaments because I need something stable in time. I’m close to consider CF PEEK 😅 (but I’m missing a Funmat HT Printer for it). As a cheaper option I would think of the High Temp Resins, on SLA, but also don’t know how they perform over time.
@@PepsiMagt I don't see how that's an argument, ABS is cheap and retains it's mechanical properties at fairly high temperatures, that's likely why it was chosen. However it's softer than many other options and Carbon composites have much better dampening properties as well as being stiffer, and in the case of nylon and especially PEEK or ULTEM, more heat resistant as well. The recommended option isn't always the best.
@@It_got_darK the video clearly showed that carbon reinforced nylon suffered very much from heat creep, deforming under multiple heat cycles. ABS does not do that. It will defor, but it springs back and do not suffer from creep.
@@PepsiMagt I stand corrected about nylon, which sort of makes sense in hindsight, that however does not mean that what I said is not correct. Every material suffers from heat creep, what differs is the temperature at which that occurs. In plastics that tends to depend on the glass transition temperature , which is why semi crystalline plastics usually perform better than amorphous plastics etc. (though printing compromises the crystallinity of plastics anyway)
I'd be careful about using any PC blends where there will be bearings or other oil-bearing parts nearby, since PC becomes extremely brittle after absorbing oils or greases. ASA really is the best material for your use case
Glad you're a Voron user now! Mainsail or Fluidd are the way to go. Pretty much anything you'd seek (like electronic cover) is available on the Discord. I think you'll love ADXL-based tuning as well.
Voron Switchwire and Voron 2.4 is going to be being build here. I like your videos, and your doing a wonderful work! Nero 3dp is the king of Voron, if you got any issue, ask him or join Discord community :)
look in voron users, there are some electronics covers in the mods. Personally I put an IEC inlet on mine and just unplug it before sticking my fingers in the zappy bits.
I'm intrigued, and also had not heard of this printer. Looking forward to see your upgraded version of this. If I build one, I will learn from your 'mistakes' and source quality parts. I would like to have a faster printer, as I only have cartesian styles at this time.
For $400, I’d expect the kit to come with all of its parts, and at least an extra or two of the really small pieces. Otherwise, this is a really great video. I’m going to need to look at making one of these for rapid prototyping too.
Once you have everything up and running again, I'd really like to see what you can do while printing very slowly at tiny layer heights. I mainly print minis, but a resin printer just isn't safe in my apartment, so having a small, high-detail FDM printer could be nice. (In addition to my current Mk3)
Please print the replacement parts in ABS as suggested by the team, if you want to avoid that sort of problems. It has a reason why after multiple iterations, the Voron still uses ABS despite the existence of all those supposedly fancier materials.
Continuous fiber if you really care about creep... Honestly given how much that bed sags with CF-nylon, I worry you cant really decrease the problem to a level where you wont notice, with any FDM plastic. PLA is one of the most crystaline, which is good for creep as long as you can keep if below the melting point. Annealed PLA might be your best bet; if you google a bit you can find some papers on the link between creep and annealing PLA. Perhaps printing hollow and filling with a resin might be good; not that they have zero creep but a thermoset materials tend to be in another category than thermoplastic ones.
The V0 in ABS doesn't show creep, and shouldn't with PA-CF parts, Stefan probably had a bad spool of material (as stated by the manufacturer itself). PLA won't work on most loaded parts because of the high temperature once the enclosures is completed (which it should, in most cases), even annealed which btw would be a nightmare to implement due to the heavy deformation during that process.
@@Penofhell Not sure about the bad spool making any sense. Nylon is below its Tg at atmospheric humidity, and thats awful news for creep, which apparently some short fibers are not going to fix. I dont think one should have high creep expectations of nylon unless it has continuous fibers in it; and then only along the direction of those continuous fibers. It depends on the material, but crystalline and operating below Tg are both generally very desirable. Annealed PLA can offer both, and ABS at most one of them.
I just remembered: ive seen a plain-sand epoxy mixture recommended as an excellent castable machine-base. It supposedly approaches the stiffness of pure silica, has great damping properties, and I imagine creep is going to be fine as well. And its cheap. I suppose density isnt ideal for the moving parts though...
I'm printing my parts now with PolyMax PC for the main parts and Hatchbox red ABS for the accents. I'm going to build mine with 16T pulleys on the A/B motors for extra torque. I'm going to use a 12v bed heater and a boost converter for 24v on the hotend and electronics so I can run the printer off of 12v in my van while I'm at work. Good luck with the rebuild.
I may look into this. I think the whole quick printer is really awesome. I like the idea that its compact and quick, Sometimes smaller and quicker are just better
I build a Tantillus R back in 2019, basicly it has the 'Ultimaker X-Y-Z' Setup with a 10x10x10cm Build Volume My Min Time for a Benchy is around 12-13min but Maybe I can push it a bit further
HEPA and charcoal filters are a second rate solution in my opinion. If you can access the outside and drill holes in your walls, a standard 4” clothes dryer vent 4” blower are a more robust solution that doesn’t depend on filters catching all particulate/VOCs.
Glad you're documenting your Voron adventures, a super interesting machine. And I love the size of the V0, like you say, most of the parts I print would fit there anyway. If you wanted a few spools of Prusament PC for the project, just let me know ;) (can't say how it's with material creep though)
I heard of the Voron before. Also I heard the community was toxic and wouldn't make it easy for beginners to get a grip. You probably didn't need much help, but I guess that's why it isn't more popular.
Cool project, psyched for the creep testing. A simple way to do it is to hang a weight on a specimen and measure the deflection over time. You know this already but I'll pitch in to help the algo :) Use a semi-crystaline - annealing will increase creep resistance further by increasing crystallinity
Thanks for the video! I am sourcing the parts for a Voron v0 at the moment. Hope more parts arrive soon. Will print my parts using ABS from Fillamentum. And it will be a dedicated 0.25 nozzle printer.
Love everything you have done. If you ever find time, I would love a good video on layer height, nozzle size and detail. From using we all learn the basics, but if you want to go fast and change setting for pre made files or to design your own models it would be good to understand the limits of layer height and nozzle size (line width) vs details. It seems no one ever touches on this. Just bigger and faster means less. I am sure there is some kinda of math to it that dictate smallest arcs or radiuses are diameters of circles etc. Thanks for your time if your read this.
Love your video! Dreaming of a Voron (2.4 or 0) a long time, but I don't think I would get this assembled, because I'm too clumsy for that. if I had the time, I would seriously think twice about buying a Formbot kit
This is one of the best projects I've seen for quite some time, brilliant. Considering I already have some parts like Lerge board and direct extruder assembly, incorporating these parts plus some from the old printer into Voron would be a good way to go. Also I want to point out relatively small footprint for the build volume that is not typical for CoreXY architecture. I am excited to build that in future, probably will go for Voron 2
You asked for ideas, so I have a couple, though keep in mind I haven't even gotten around to plugging my first ever 3d printer (SW X1 v4) in yet. I don't know if you've tried 1 yet, but those flexible remote extruders look like a good idea. IIRC, Tom S, Angus, Joel, etc have all had good things to say about them. I admit that solution would add a small amount of extra weight to the carriage, but that's where my next idea comes in. You mentioned the issue of the fans not providing enough cooling to the freshly extruded material... what if you were to take inspiration for that problem from the previous idea. Instead of having a couple of fans on the moving carriage, what if you had bigger more powerful fan(s) mounted to the frame, with a fan shroud/adapter connected to a light weight hose suspended from the frame that then feeds into an air distribution part on the moving carriage? That should hopefully more than offset the slight weight increase from the previous idea, *and* give you increased airflow on the freshly extruded material.
I've suffered crepp in a few brands of Nylon-CF filaments. To the extent that I now consider it a material property. I use Polymaker PC more often these days for stiff parts (though that can have cracking issues, but that's a different matter). I also have some Polycarbonate-PC material that I've not yet spent much time with as my printer is in an insulated, but not actively heated chamber.
@@CNCKitchen it's a shame, as it's such a great material. The rougher looking the part/material the less it seems to happen, so I suspect it's the length of the milled carbon fibers that is the contributing factor. Longer fibres, better consolidation/adhesion to the polymer internally, therefore less creep. Complete guess though, I'm no expert!
Nice, definitely will check the Voron out. Looking forward to those creep tests! I had a notion that PLA creep was partly due to water absorption. I ran a simple creep test with bare PLA, and PLA coated with polyurethane. The single poly coat actually did have less creep, but unclear if that's just because the poly added some stiffness of its own.
Excellent video! I’m building a 2.4 later this year, and have been following Nero’s channel for a bit, even the official discord (I haven’t dove deep into the Discord yet though). One thing you may want to investigate, Stefan, is upgrading to a direct drive when/if the new extruder design is released. The extra weight the printer throws around is not too large of a challenge for the larger Vorons with the use of input shaper. Furthermore, I saw/read (I forget where or by who) that their direct drive “Afterburner” toolhead system can actually print faster than a Bowden system. The Bowden system’s hotend would outrun the extruder. If this is due to Bowden extruder speed limitations (gearing), extrusion pressure delay, or retraction stops, I don’t know. But until the new toolhead for V0 (assumed to be a performance upgrade over their “Pocketwatch”) is released, or someone who has done a side-by-between Bowden and a Pocketwatch can chime in (I mostly keep up with the 2.4 variants), I would hesitate to assume with certainty a Bowden will be your best path to your record setting Benchy. Yes, record setting. I don’t see you as the type to just break the ten minute mark and just move on, wondering how much more you could push the envelope? How much design entitlement you aren’t taking advantage of? Test it until print failure... Good Luck! I look forward to the creep update!
11:00 makes sense. I can get about 14mm3/s out of my microswiss at 220C and was well on my way to a 25min benchy on my Ender 3 when the X driver got hot and skipped. Time to rework my board cooling & box. Highly recommend Klipper for speed and resonance.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Banana Scale FTW!
Is this the fabled banana you were going to cast in silicon?
Can't believe you 3d printed a banana
Check out the hevORT. that one is a solid competitor for the voron, and I'd argue it's even faster. Search it on UA-cam, the guy who is developing it has a channel dedicated to it.
What happened with the pellet extruder?
I always remember this SNL sketch. ua-cam.com/video/JpX9vjnZ-I4/v-deo.html They might as well use your tiny printer for the shoot :D
Thank you for kind words. Great build! Glad you enjoyed it and can’t wait to see what you have planned for this thing.
Well Designed Machine... Great Job guys!
Now I'm going to have to check out the Voron designs. I have a bunch on AL extrusion just looking for a design.
@@bbowling4979 this is the baby Voron, you can also check the V1 and the V2
I don't know if this is such a good decision to use an Ali kit from the beginning, then still build in old nylon to shoot a review. Hope the 200 orders on Ali-Express don't cause problems and give Voron a bad reputation. Now that it's getting "comerz
Thanks for the efforts on designing this.
It looks gorgeous and I can't wait to start building one (though I need to get my girl on board :joy:)
Great shout out to Nero3dp. He's a very helpful guy and is very knowledgeable with Klipper and all. The vorons. He has helped me out with at least 3 of my builds.
He's been getting a lot of love from the bigger guys lately and I love to see it
Nero's content is a goldmine for anyone into 3D printing. His videos and streams have really made me realize just how high the untapped speed and quality potential in FDM 3D printing is - even by just installing Klipper onto bed slinger, you've made a huge stride in speed and quality. I almost think the Prusa being viewed as the quintessential prosumer printer has caused people to become complacent. So many people have them, and I really think this has caused its level of quality to become a sort of gold standard - a far too low gold standard.
@@Joe_Yacketori you have that right. I have mostly been self taught the last 5 years. But then I heard about the Vorons!
@@MD-NWWI same here. Saw the Voron machines on his channel first, and I'm itching to build one.
Great video and thanks for the shoutout!
Glad the machine is working well for ya, sorry to hear about the creep issues, currently planning a V1.8 build for dedicated higher temp plastics, was leaning toward CF nylon as well but will have to do some more testing it looks like :P
Just wait till you get some fresh parts and a full tune it on, its going to really fly.
Use CF-ABS instead? Or will you get too close to glass transition temp with that build?
暂停
a V1.8 build for dedicated higher temp plastics！suspend？
@@takingleung2336 Machine will be for plastics like Nylon/PC and other materials that print better with higher ambient temps.
@@CanuckCreator What about CarbonX™ PA6+CF (Gen3), can be printed with a all metal extruder at 240 - 270 degress and have Deflection Temperature of 147 degress.
Toasty boy! Love your stuff Nero3dp 🙏👏👏👏
It’s nice for popular influencers like you to give a shot out on the Voron project, this community is just getting more and more momentum, can’t wait to settle in my new place and start building myself one!
Well deserved!
It's amazing to finally see one of the big 3D printing channels talk about the Voron. It's crazy that it's not more well known.
I have a feeling it's going to get a lot more press. After finding out about it a few months ago I have seen it mentioned a lot. Not sure if I just notice the mentions because now I know what the name is, but it does feel like people are talking about it a lot. I think the main issue that it really is not a project suitable for most people. It takes a lot of research for parts and assembly, tuning, and it's relatively expensive.
But I am certainly planning to build one eventually. 2.4 is a dream machine for me, but might be too much printer for my needs. This looks too small, but is also really tempting for the size and cost reduction and still getting a fun project.
The simple reason is that most company send free printers and even pay youtube content creators to review their printers. Since this is non commercial open source project if a youtube channel review it, it means they have to pay for everything.
And that's why I love this channel!
Some of the voron community is very rude regarding their machines so I think that's the real reason
I only found out about it yesterday. I do not need one as I've already got two printers that cover my needs adequately. But it still doesn't stop me kind of *wanting* one.
i almost didnt watch because i thought this is just another printer review. glad i did!
Great review as always Stephan. It's good to hear comments/suggestions from first time builders to let us know what areas we can improve! Looking forward to your creep tests :)
Awesome! I am so glad that awareness towards performant DIY open source printers is raising more and more. Voron, Annex Engineering and my personnal project the HevORT are all very capable printers that are laying the path for what I believe to be the future of hobbyist FDM printing.
Thank you for this review! keep up the good work, your videos are bringing so much value to this hpbby :)
It's the Hevort guy! I hope you are well.
@@linuxinstalled I am well thank you! Hope you are well too ;)
All these DIY, state-of-the-art FDM printers are made by hobbyists instead of corporations, it’s utterly ridiculous and I like it! I guess this is what you get from a community made of tinkerers and engineers lol
you have caused me to build a v0, and entered me into this community. i am infinitely excited and thankful
“Some call the Voron over engineered, I call it well engineered...”
Of course you do, you’re *German!* 😂
Hey, what’s _that_ supposed to mean?! 😤 … 😉
There is no over engineered in the German language
@@skysi That’s… actually true 😅 We use the English term too. Well, if we absolutely have to, that is. 😁
Clearly you havent driven a german car. So unreliable
Not what it used to be unfortunately.
I just started to build a Voron 2.4, and got the parts from the same seller on aliexpress. There is something therapeutic about building this machine. The zero is so cute and functional, glad you show cased it.
I have been told that the print parts from Ali where of bad quality, you should have use the PIF program instead.
Nero is a great guy, i really hope he gets a lot f subs from your shoutout.
He was the guy who got me to the point to flash klipper on my duet2 wifi
Finally a big youtuber bringing light to the awesome Voron printers. The voron 2.4 is even better.
This genuinely blew my mind. I'm totally building one
You won't regret it!
you and the rest of the internet :D
Got the Kit from Formbot and it came within a week. Communication was great for special wishes like a dragon hot end is stead of the standard. It came complete with a lot of extra screws and connectors. Absolutely great. Can only recommend this dealer..
Happy to heat that!
It's really cool to see a Voron featured on one of the more well known 3D channels (though I think Nero will be there one day); they really are great machines and fun to build. ABS all the way. I had never used ABS before preparing a Voron build, and just assumed I could use something like PETG. Once I finally made the switch to ABS, it was much smoother sailing.
I´m so impressed by the Voron printers. Unbelievable they are open source and engineered so well. Good job building one. I would totally flip out having to re-assemble it because of material failure. Thumbs up for your effort and endurance. Nice build. Cheers!
I also have the part cooling fan on, but on low speed, when printing ABS on my Hypercube. It results in much much better prints than no cooling. I've printed hundreds of functional parts that way for several years. Not sure why so many people are claiming ABS should never be cooled.
I have an open frame printer and I had to use a little part cooling fan for ABS. Otherwise the next little gust of air movement warps and cracks the print. Higher temperature of the print improves bonding, but consistent temperature is more important.
I’ve been longing for a 2.4 for awhile now, but you have convinced me to look at the other models and go a bit smaller. Thanks for posting, can’t wait to see updates on your experiences with it!
Hype train. Looking forward to this vid for some time!
Hope you enjoyed it!
@@CNCKitchen loved It! Been thinking about building a voron 2.4 for some time now and this definitely helped me with material choices to think about
When I discovers Nero’s channel I changed my Creality CR-10 and my Creativity Elf to Klipper and what a difference! A totally different machine, the best upgrade so far!
Looks like an awesome little machine! And you’re right... that 300x300x300 work envelope is handy when you need it... but 90%+ of parts are under the 100 cube size. Now I want a small machine, too ☺️
Nice video!
Good luck with your 10 minute Bency.
My 1st printer was a custom build printer I baught from a company that does 3D stuff. I paid roughly $200 for my 120x120x120 coreXY printer.
I had a standard board that finally gave way a year ago. But before that I used it for prototyping nosecones for model rockets. I even printed parts to fix kitchen cuboard's and stuff.
As always I find your videos enducational, Entertaining and inovative. Sorry for the spelling. English is a 2nd language..
yay for speed!!! I'm so happy rn that printing fast is finally getting popular!!! let's leave 40mm/s in the dust!
I've had a look at the voron family for a while and the V0 was really interesting to me. As soon as you mentioned your kit in the Meltzone Podcasts I couldn't resist it anymore - it arrived last friday 👍
The recommended material to use is ABS/ASA. There has already been a lot of testing of these printers before they get to release! Why not save yourself the headache and just use the right material?
This very much. And while the fumes are not healthy, it's not gonna kill ya. CNCK seems to worry about fumes just a tad too much.
Like every good nerd, he thought he could improve something. It's an assertion that is often wrong, but it's the only way to advance.
I also have added mods for things I wanted to change/improve...but, I built it stock to begin with. Otherwise you're just guessing.
Conforming to baseline every now and then - especially after a sound failure and still having no better guess - is totally ok and for a optimization nerd a true sign of being an optimization nerd, as it can enable new realizations just by not being grindy in method.
Is ABS recommended over PC or carbon fiber PC?
The realtime footage looks like a time lapse.
I love it!
I printed one in ABS and one in ASA. So far the ASA is holding up just fine. I wouldn’t deviate too far off the normal path.
ASA is frequently name "the better ABS
ASA is my favorite now , ABS don’t like UV
@@GillesManzato I have a spool of ASA that I have not use. I'm keeping it to print a drone.
Absolutely incredible! It doesn't even look real while printing that fast!
Also... I'm SUPER excited for the creep testing. It's an issue I've been dealing with in my functional prints for a while.
All vorons parts should be printed in ABS, they warn against using other materials. There are numerous stories on the voron discord channel of people using different materials and then having to do a complete rebuild, like yourself. Don't make the same mistake twice
.
Yes. Just go for ABS. That's what is was designed for and tested on, even accounting for shrinkage of ABS. Why change something that isn't broken?
At least personally, I try to avoid ABS whenever possible. When I was researching my Voron build it was one of the first things I looked into. However, after a while I concluded that the Voron is really an ABS forward design and there's not much support in the community for alternatives, with variants like ABS+ or ASA being the only exception.
Are there any benefits to a fiber-filled ABS in regards to the Voron?
Even when PC is an option?
@@grahambell5847 Vorons as designed are structured correctly for ABS. Using CF or fiber-fill media doesn't seem to provide any advantage to the printer. Using an accelerometer to tune pressure advance yields a printer with little to no resonance artifacts even at high speed.
You've given me a whole new world to explore. Thanks!
Stefan, don't mess around. You need a baseline. Print the parts out of ABS or ABS+. Not only is it in the documentation as the only supported materials, but they are known to work. You need a baseline - maybe stiffer material will make things slower.
I was so excited to see this! I heard so many good things about Vorn
I am always wondering why there isn’t much UA-camrs talking about Voron.
100% agree. There are very few videos about them, yet, they seem to be very high-end machines at a mid-tier price.
I'm guessing it's because they don't offer a kit for it so a lot of the UA-cam channels don't want to have to deal with sourcing a bunch of parts and then spending a week printing parts and then 2-3 days assembling the machine. I guess if youtube is your job, you can't commit half a month to 1 build
Voron doesn't have the resources to build and give away printers for review.
Because there is no reason for them to send for reviews... They dont sell them
@@nathan1sixteen Thanks for letting me realize all these videos are just hard cold businesses.
I think there are ways to keep their turnover rates high if they are really keen to do it: There is no labor involved by only talking about it. Or it wouldn’t be really hard to borrow one from the community.
@@nathan1sixteen There are few companies that sell Voron kit, but you have to go over the Voron discord to see the vendors.
also if you don't want to print your parts, Voron community has print in forward, where someone that has been approved to print good functional parts can print it for you.
and yes you have to build it, so it is not for everyone. But if you build it, you can fix it, because you know everything about the printer.
Yeah more and more I am super tempted to build a Voron. So thank you for sharing your experience.
Will get my kit delivered on Monday 😁.
This video made me excited about it again.
Have fun!
It's about time someone did a proper review of this guy
Many thanks for the insights Stefan, very useful! And 🤔 very interesting with sagging of the parts over time.
I’m also testing now some other similar filaments because I need something stable in time.
I’m close to consider CF PEEK 😅 (but I’m missing a Funmat HT Printer for it).
As a cheaper option I would think of the High Temp Resins, on SLA, but also don’t know how they perform over time.
The spec calls for ABS and nothing else. It was designed to use ABS parts, and it works with ABS parts.
@@PepsiMagt I don't understand how that's so hard of a concept to grasp for some people
@@PepsiMagt I don't see how that's an argument, ABS is cheap and retains it's mechanical properties at fairly high temperatures, that's likely why it was chosen. However it's softer than many other options and Carbon composites have much better dampening properties as well as being stiffer, and in the case of nylon and especially PEEK or ULTEM, more heat resistant as well. The recommended option isn't always the best.
@@It_got_darK the video clearly showed that carbon reinforced nylon suffered very much from heat creep, deforming under multiple heat cycles. ABS does not do that. It will defor, but it springs back and do not suffer from creep.
@@PepsiMagt I stand corrected about nylon, which sort of makes sense in hindsight, that however does not mean that what I said is not correct. Every material suffers from heat creep, what differs is the temperature at which that occurs. In plastics that tends to depend on the glass transition temperature , which is why semi crystalline plastics usually perform better than amorphous plastics etc. (though printing compromises the crystallinity of plastics anyway)
Just bought the kit and some ESUN ABS+ to get this thing started. Thanks for the review!
Have fun with it!
I hope to see you do a Voron 2.4 review/build too!
Wow, this tiny thing looks bonkers!
Excited for future updates, including tackling the creep issue.
>PETG
>the stringing didn't want to go away
yep that's PETG alright.
Ace review Stefan, loaded with build, excruder and filiment best practises pointers and tips.
I'd be careful about using any PC blends where there will be bearings or other oil-bearing parts nearby, since PC becomes extremely brittle after absorbing oils or greases. ASA really is the best material for your use case
Or CF nylon.
Glad you're a Voron user now! Mainsail or Fluidd are the way to go. Pretty much anything you'd seek (like electronic cover) is available on the Discord. I think you'll love ADXL-based tuning as well.
BTW, "Voron" means "raven" in Russian and may be some other languages.
Nevermore!
Йеккк...
Voron Switchwire and Voron 2.4 is going to be being build here.
I like your videos, and your doing a wonderful work!
Nero 3dp is the king of Voron, if you got any issue, ask him or join Discord community :)
Voron is a really cool project! I'm thinking my self to build one probably a 2.4
I just built one, highly recommend it.
The editing in the beginning is perfect!
look in voron users, there are some electronics covers in the mods. Personally I put an IEC inlet on mine and just unplug it before sticking my fingers in the zappy bits.
I'm intrigued, and also had not heard of this printer. Looking forward to see your upgraded version of this. If I build one, I will learn from your 'mistakes' and source quality parts. I would like to have a faster printer, as I only have cartesian styles at this time.
The V0.1 is will be released not too far in the future.
I saw Voron in the title, I clicked the like button. So want to build this thing
Welcome to the Voron community!!
For $400, I’d expect the kit to come with all of its parts, and at least an extra or two of the really small pieces. Otherwise, this is a really great video. I’m going to need to look at making one of these for rapid prototyping too.
For 400$ I would expect all the parts to be injection mouldings or milled. Not needing any printing.
@@MostlyInteresting guess thats a answer of someone who maybe owns a cheap china bedslinger for 200 bucks..
Man do you ever sleep? This is a lot of work. wow. good video. Thank you.
Once you have everything up and running again, I'd really like to see what you can do while printing very slowly at tiny layer heights. I mainly print minis, but a resin printer just isn't safe in my apartment, so having a small, high-detail FDM printer could be nice. (In addition to my current Mk3)
head over to Voron discord
Finally a voron video!
Please print the replacement parts in ABS as suggested by the team, if you want to avoid that sort of problems. It has a reason why after multiple iterations, the Voron still uses ABS despite the existence of all those supposedly fancier materials.
Exactly, no reason at all to attempt using other materials
I'd love to see that heat creep video when you have the time! Love those material test videos
Continuous fiber if you really care about creep... Honestly given how much that bed sags with CF-nylon, I worry you cant really decrease the problem to a level where you wont notice, with any FDM plastic. PLA is one of the most crystaline, which is good for creep as long as you can keep if below the melting point. Annealed PLA might be your best bet; if you google a bit you can find some papers on the link between creep and annealing PLA. Perhaps printing hollow and filling with a resin might be good; not that they have zero creep but a thermoset materials tend to be in another category than thermoplastic ones.
The V0 in ABS doesn't show creep, and shouldn't with PA-CF parts, Stefan probably had a bad spool of material (as stated by the manufacturer itself). PLA won't work on most loaded parts because of the high temperature once the enclosures is completed (which it should, in most cases), even annealed which btw would be a nightmare to implement due to the heavy deformation during that process.
@@Penofhell Not sure about the bad spool making any sense. Nylon is below its Tg at atmospheric humidity, and thats awful news for creep, which apparently some short fibers are not going to fix. I dont think one should have high creep expectations of nylon unless it has continuous fibers in it; and then only along the direction of those continuous fibers.
It depends on the material, but crystalline and operating below Tg are both generally very desirable. Annealed PLA can offer both, and ABS at most one of them.
I just remembered: ive seen a plain-sand epoxy mixture recommended as an excellent castable machine-base. It supposedly approaches the stiffness of pure silica, has great damping properties, and I imagine creep is going to be fine as well. And its cheap. I suppose density isnt ideal for the moving parts though...
Thank you so much. This is exactly what I need, but I wasn't aware that it already exist open source
I want to build an HevORT. Do you know this design?
Seems like a very good choice if the goal is to print fast
I'm printing my parts now with PolyMax PC for the main parts and Hatchbox red ABS for the accents. I'm going to build mine with 16T pulleys on the A/B motors for extra torque. I'm going to use a 12v bed heater and a boost converter for 24v on the hotend and electronics so I can run the printer off of 12v in my van while I'm at work. Good luck with the rebuild.
Creep test, please!!!
+1
@@CNCKitchen Can I suggest both a tensile and compression creep test? I think it would be very interesting to see if there is a difference .
It’s awesome to see your face man, you are a legend!!!
use mainsail or fluidd... octoprint is a hassle.. Bowden at speed needs a stiff bowden..
only have a short piece of Capricorn Tube installed at the moment.
@@CNCKitchen I reinforced mine... And ditched the quick connectors
I may look into this. I think the whole quick printer is really awesome. I like the idea that its compact and quick, Sometimes smaller and quicker are just better
I build a Tantillus R back in 2019, basicly it has the 'Ultimaker X-Y-Z' Setup with a 10x10x10cm Build Volume
My Min Time for a Benchy is around 12-13min but Maybe I can push it a bit further
HEPA and charcoal filters are a second rate solution in my opinion. If you can access the outside and drill holes in your walls, a standard 4” clothes dryer vent 4” blower are a more robust solution that doesn’t depend on filters catching all particulate/VOCs.
Use ABS as specified! :) Great video.
Thanks, you are giving me hope, that the kit v2.4 I ordered a bit ago is not going to be scrap.
Voron means "raven" in Russian.
Thanks, I always asked myself if there was a meaning behind it! :)
The guy who started Voron goes by Russian Cat Food.
@@nirecue cat food?
I'm liking the Voron coreXY configurations. Will have to try and implement something similar on my 6-foot by 6-foot printer build.
Any update?
I'm disappointed that your crimpers don't have googley eyes
😭 I'm sorry.
Glad you're documenting your Voron adventures, a super interesting machine. And I love the size of the V0, like you say, most of the parts I print would fit there anyway. If you wanted a few spools of Prusament PC for the project, just let me know ;)
(can't say how it's with material creep though)
That's definitely one of the options on my list! I'll first perform a couple of creep tests before I continue and decide.
I heard of the Voron before. Also I heard the community was toxic and wouldn't make it easy for beginners to get a grip. You probably didn't need much help, but I guess that's why it isn't more popular.
Cool project, psyched for the creep testing. A simple way to do it is to hang a weight on a specimen and measure the deflection over time.
You know this already but I'll pitch in to help the algo :) Use a semi-crystaline - annealing will increase creep resistance further by increasing crystallinity
_laughs in poor_
PC to the rescue
Love it.
Try to aneale it too
Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us👍😀
Now I want one.... I need a small fast and able to enclose 3d printer for prototyping really fast, this seems like the perfect option.
Thanks for the video! I am sourcing the parts for a Voron v0 at the moment. Hope more parts arrive soon. Will print my parts using ABS from Fillamentum. And it will be a dedicated 0.25 nozzle printer.
Great video as always, Stephan. :) I hope to see you on my next V0 stream as well.
Looking forward to see yours finished!
Voron machines are so elegant.
Been waiting for this video since it was mentioned in the Melt Zone
Man, those ziptie anchors are life changing.
Love everything you have done. If you ever find time, I would love a good video on layer height, nozzle size and detail. From using we all learn the basics, but if you want to go fast and change setting for pre made files or to design your own models it would be good to understand the limits of layer height and nozzle size (line width) vs details. It seems no one ever touches on this. Just bigger and faster means less. I am sure there is some kinda of math to it that dictate smallest arcs or radiuses are diameters of circles etc.
Thanks for your time if your read this.
Wow unbelievable!! Great results!
Love your video! Dreaming of a Voron (2.4 or 0) a long time, but I don't think I would get this assembled, because I'm too clumsy for that. if I had the time, I would seriously think twice about buying a Formbot kit
Go for it!
Very well done Stefan
This is one of the best projects I've seen for quite some time, brilliant. Considering I already have some parts like Lerge board and direct extruder assembly, incorporating these parts plus some from the old printer into Voron would be a good way to go. Also I want to point out relatively small footprint for the build volume that is not typical for CoreXY architecture. I am excited to build that in future, probably will go for Voron 2
I hope we will see ASAP your way to success and 10 min benchy! Thx
You asked for ideas, so I have a couple, though keep in mind I haven't even gotten around to plugging my first ever 3d printer (SW X1 v4) in yet.
I don't know if you've tried 1 yet, but those flexible remote extruders look like a good idea. IIRC, Tom S, Angus, Joel, etc have all had good things to say about them. I admit that solution would add a small amount of extra weight to the carriage, but that's where my next idea comes in.
You mentioned the issue of the fans not providing enough cooling to the freshly extruded material... what if you were to take inspiration for that problem from the previous idea. Instead of having a couple of fans on the moving carriage, what if you had bigger more powerful fan(s) mounted to the frame, with a fan shroud/adapter connected to a light weight hose suspended from the frame that then feeds into an air distribution part on the moving carriage? That should hopefully more than offset the slight weight increase from the previous idea, *and* give you increased airflow on the freshly extruded material.
Good points!
Cool build Stephan, very nice, building a 2.4 myself, all printed parts from e-sun ABS plus good luck with Bentchy drag racing :-)
hope you are on Voron discord
I've suffered crepp in a few brands of Nylon-CF filaments. To the extent that I now consider it a material property. I use Polymaker PC more often these days for stiff parts (though that can have cracking issues, but that's a different matter). I also have some Polycarbonate-PC material that I've not yet spent much time with as my printer is in an insulated, but not actively heated chamber.
Good to know!
@@CNCKitchen it's a shame, as it's such a great material. The rougher looking the part/material the less it seems to happen, so I suspect it's the length of the milled carbon fibers that is the contributing factor. Longer fibres, better consolidation/adhesion to the polymer internally, therefore less creep. Complete guess though, I'm no expert!
Incredible machine, 90% of my prints are fast prototyping, very interested now, thanks
Nice, definitely will check the Voron out. Looking forward to those creep tests! I had a notion that PLA creep was partly due to water absorption. I ran a simple creep test with bare PLA, and PLA coated with polyurethane. The single poly coat actually did have less creep, but unclear if that's just because the poly added some stiffness of its own.
Screws = use blue locktite or other EU available liquid thread lockers. Great video. I'm building a V0 as well.
Excellent video! I’m building a 2.4 later this year, and have been following Nero’s channel for a bit, even the official discord (I haven’t dove deep into the Discord yet though).
One thing you may want to investigate, Stefan, is upgrading to a direct drive when/if the new extruder design is released. The extra weight the printer throws around is not too large of a challenge for the larger Vorons with the use of input shaper. Furthermore, I saw/read (I forget where or by who) that their direct drive “Afterburner” toolhead system can actually print faster than a Bowden system. The Bowden system’s hotend would outrun the extruder. If this is due to Bowden extruder speed limitations (gearing), extrusion pressure delay, or retraction stops, I don’t know. But until the new toolhead for V0 (assumed to be a performance upgrade over their “Pocketwatch”) is released, or someone who has done a side-by-between Bowden and a Pocketwatch can chime in (I mostly keep up with the 2.4 variants), I would hesitate to assume with certainty a Bowden will be your best path to your record setting Benchy. Yes, record setting. I don’t see you as the type to just break the ten minute mark and just move on, wondering how much more you could push the envelope? How much design entitlement you aren’t taking advantage of?
Test it until print failure...
Good Luck! I look forward to the creep update!
11:00 makes sense. I can get about 14mm3/s out of my microswiss at 220C and was well on my way to a 25min benchy on my Ender 3 when the X driver got hot and skipped. Time to rework my board cooling & box.
Highly recommend Klipper for speed and resonance.