Traditional Catholics vs. Charismatic Catholics w/ Fr. Mark Goring
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- Опубліковано 25 січ 2021
- This clip is taken from a recent episode with Fr. Mark Goring ("From Atheist to Priest"). Watch the full interview here: • From Atheist to Cathol...
If the Catholic Faith is a spectrum, many would see traditionalists on one side of the continuum and charismatics on the other. But does it have to be that way? What if we could become "Trad-is-matics"? Fr. Mark shares his thoughts.
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Also bring back confessionals. More people would go to confession if they could go into a confessional booth. In my opinion.
And why would you not be able to do so?
@@ColetteTremblay007 none of our churches have confessional booths anymore. You have to confess face to face with a priest.
@@ConsecratedLaywoman the handicap person can make an appointment with the priest to make a confession.
@@ConsecratedLaywoman I think I have a solution. The priest would be in a room and be behind a screen so that he could not see who was making a confession. This way anyone even people in a wheelchair could make a confession privately. What do you think?
@@ConsecratedLaywoman you are fortunate that your church has confessionals that are large enough for a person in a wheelchair. I wish our church had those! God bless you Natasha!
I know of many Charismatic Catholics, who firmly uphold the Church's Traditional teachings especially pertaining to morality. For me the Liturgy should be as "Traditional" as possible but in terms of Evangelisation and events outside the Liturgy the Charismatic Catholics have so much potential to bear plentiful fruit.
I think this is where things are headed. More traditional liturgies but things like charismatic adoration services happening in the same parishes.
FiveADayProductions 👍🏻
@@aretrograde7745 your comment shows your lack of openness to other expressions of adoration.
@@aretrograde7745 I noticed that about certain traditional Catholics who attended Steubenville. But let me tell you they are not the
Pinnacle of the CCR. There are many many Charismatic Catholics who are contemplative and have the Charismatic gifts operating in them.
My parish has normal Novus Ordo masses but also a Traditional Latin Mass and a more charismatic praise and worship Mass every Sunday. We might seem at odds to some, but a lot of us go to the same parish.
The Latin Mass is growing in popularity. Not just among the old folks. Young families, you twenties. It's just beautiful.
50 years ago we had one TLM parish. We still do today. Not aware of any sign of this “growth” here. What is happening (i definitely notice this) is the return of a lot of tradition to the ordinary form. Fewer clown masses, and more masses with good scholas, more use of Latin, and rubric-following priests.
@@Pepe-xn3he That is false. Many prefer the TLM due to its reverence and the rich prayers. To say that people just like being entertained is false and slanderous.
@@Pepe-xn3he definitely not. A TLM is all about the Eucharist and that spiritual connection! Beauty enhances all that, particularly with the rich musical heritage of the Catholic Church. It all fits. So for me as a musician and returned lapsed Catholic, I found the NO unsatisfactory, humdrum.
@@Pepe-xn3heNo. As people we want God in our spirit, mind, and body.
@@patrickmelling8404 Then go to another NO parish where it's more reverential. Better yet, volunteer with the choir as a musician or choir leader.
Most NO Masses have cleaned up their acts. The liturgical abuses of the 1970s and 80s are mostly gone. There are new, improved music settings for the Ordinary (Lord Have Mercy, Glory to God, Holy, Lamb of God) and many have done away with pop music in place of the Propers (Offertory, Communion).
Instead of pop, many NO now use traditional Catholic hymns according to the seasons (On Jordan's Bank, O Come Emmanuel for Advent; Of the Father's Love Begotten, Silent Night for Christmas; O Sacred Head All Wounded for Lent, etc. Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence, Soul of My Savior, Lord Who at Thy First Eucharist did Pray, etc. for Communion.)
I am sure a few of such selections will satisfy your Catholic musician's heart. God bless you.
I was away from the Church for forty years and it was and still is the Eucharist that brought me back.
Ditto for me
Amen 🙏🙏🙏 Me also ❤
I would love to see the Church return to the Communion rail, Latin Mass and confession before Mass.
Agreed this would avoid sacrilegious communions
I agree with Communion rail, but keep the language as local. Peace
I Agree
Agreed!!!
Try and find a TLM Parish, even with a bit of a journey, it is worth it. They are flourishing, if you can't find one ask your Priest if he can say one on Sundays.
Having been raised in a God fearing Catholic family, I was not open to the renewal movement, thinking of myself a good catholic, but the Lord had his way and I was renewed in the Charismatic way and the next thing the Lord did was lead me to a Latin Mass and so I'm a happy combo, Praise God !
yess i’m a charismatic youth catholic & i love tradition and hope it never goes away, the traditional liturgy is amazing:)
Yesss bring back communion rails in every church!! ❤️
Just not the Byzantine churches😉
@@GuadalupePicasso hahah fair point 😉
communion rails came about in both Protestant and Catholic churches in the 16th century, they arent old by any means.
@@Pepe-xn3he that there is no point to bringing them back, they aren’t even an old tradition, in fact not having them is 1600 years older. Communion rails won’t save the church from liberalism
@@Pepe-xn3he what will save the church is an emphasis on Christ and the gospel. This isn’t a message that is only for Protestants, I am a Catholic through and through and we red to defend our doctrines and teachings above all else, but we don’t want to get distracted with things that in reality are not important. The early church didn’t believe kn Christ because of fancy churches or beautiful traditions, they didn’t even have them at that point. They believed because of the message that was given to them and because of the real faith of the apostles. We need catholics, lay and religious, who have real faith in Christ and his gospel message.
Communion on the tongue, communion rails & confessionals booths much, much needed. Please bring them back! Never experienced a Latin Mass but am open to it for sure!!!
👍🏻✌🏼🙏🏼❤️
how about knowledge built on facts and not dogma ??If you are gay or know someone who is, this is important information! Sexual orientation is determined in the womb during fetus development. Various hormones are introduced at specific times to accomplish this .The fetus plays no part in this process. A person is, therefore, born with a predetermined attraction. It is, therefore, not a choice & consequently not a sin & not immoral. It is a natural expression of our species & found commonplace in nature. Intelligent research in this area clearly explains this process. If you are truly interested in truth, based on knowledge, the book Gay, Straight & the Reason Why by Dr. Simon Levay shows this with numerous research articles. If you want to understand the truth & have respect for yourself & others, this book will help. It also has, unlike the bible written over 2000 years ago by men that had no understanding of science, an extensive bibliography. I strongly recommend the book. The public must be exposed to facts & knowledge. It is an obligation for those who know the truth & must defend it. Don’t let the religious pull you down to their level of ignorance. Peace
Start saying "precious blood and precious body" instead of communion or eucharist. You'll raise eyebrows with fallen away Catholics and people in your own parish. They'll start to think "hey maybe there's more to this than I thought."
Yeah , Precious Blood and Precious Body , beautiful
I think rather follow the bible cause the bible is God than follow tradition repent before God and be baptise according to the word
I will use that!!
@TFEA oh my word will pray for
@TFEA where did you get that information you will never understand the bible unless you are born again I will really pray for you so that God must open your eyes give you wisdom God bless you my friend keep safe just remember Jesus loves you no matter what
I just hope for Charismatics to have enough discernment not to get confused when it comes to certain gifts. *MANY* end-up assimilating protestant ideas, if they aren't careful.
You are so right about this. This is the bad side of charismatism. Many of charismatics tend to desobey clerics, tend to neglect the priority of Mass and many tend to judge others for they see themselves as better! Pride is the biggest danger of charismatics!
@Jason
Don't get your hopes up. Saint Francis was 100% recognizing the authority of Rome, and Church hierarchy.
@@Pepe-xn3he To think protestantism brings "Truth" is foolish and ill informed: As far as TRUTH goes, God taught ONE way for individuals to be saved, and it has everything to do with being united with Christ's body.
By severing themselves from the original Church _(which is the Catholic Church),_ Protestants also severed themselves from the BODY. Having been mislead by generations of anti-catholic bigotry, most protestants today have lost the capacity to recognize the plain logic that would have them stop, and reflect upon the fact that Christ clearly said that *his Church would never fall.*
None of their _(protestant)_ denominations can date their existence back to the times of the Early Christians, nor to the time when *the BIBLE* canon was established.
Facing this reality, they should remember the schism they partook, and Paul's words on severed body parts that cannot function on their own without the head, which is Christ -- indeed -- but also those to whom Christ gave the authority to SPEAK and PREACH in His name: the Apostles and their successors, which can ONLY be found today within the ancient One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, that withstood time, wars, threats of heresies, famines, for about 2000 years to this very day.
Although, there is ONE good thing I see coming from protestants: the desire to preach... if only they could preach the ONE truth, instead of the dispensational theology that *truly* brings more souls to Hell than the alternative.
Truly, I wish Protestants would repent as soon as possible, for I know they wish to serve the Lord... but they are as faithful to Him now as those disciples who left Christ when they thought His teachings were "too harsh". _(See John 6)_
@@Pepe-xn3he
One should follow one's conscience and be saved *IF* that person never had a chance to know _(as in "having heard of")_ Christ _(and His gospel)._ *THAT* is what the Church teaches.
Protestants who are acting in good faith will receive graces to convert, similar to a safety buoy Christ would throw at them in a stormy sea, so that they would *return to the ship.* A priest talking to them; Catholics warning them of the dangers they're in; Reading the life of the saints, etc. Seeds that would eventually grow into the realization that indeed, they NEED to return Home instead of closing their hearts to the obvious Truth.
Here's an insight:
*Picking what YOU prefer out of each religion won't save you:* it just gives you the illusion of pursuing righteousness, and that precise definition of "righteousness" is relative only to your own _(current)_ perception of morality, which itself changes depending on the society you live in.
If there is Truth, you are thus NOT pursuing it honestly.
You've heard about Christ, about the Church, about its claims, about scripture. You certainly had occasions to study those claims, to go to mass, etc. What did you do with those opportunities?
Protestants? They all claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit, yet somehow, the Holy Spirit inspires them different Truths: Since they have no authority on earth, how can they declare who is right? They cannot. How then will you discern their truth from their errors?
Atheists? They will argue that there is no gods, and that believers are gullible to believe without seeing. Meanwhile, these same atheists will advocate for theories they themselves never tested or witnessed, trusting the -preachers- scientists as if they were prophets. Science is but our human way to understand less than 1% of "how God made things work"... how is this even relevant to spirituality. It is not.
Agnostics?
They simply stopped searching for the Truth. What will you learn from them other than how to reach a dead-end in spirituality?
Study the Catholic Church, and pay close attention to her claims.
Christ left us with a Church: we must follow it. Take it from someone who searched a long time for this Truth.
You will find it *nowhere else.*
@@MystoRobot I also studied my way to Catholicism. However, what about people who don’t have the luxury like us to study? Because I can imagine there are some non- Catholic, single mothers out there who believe in Jesus, trying their best to act in good conscience, and working multiple jobs to support their children. I am blessed. I am provided for and live a comfortable life. I got a reliable internet and computers to research and study. Practically speaking, I can’t help but to sympathize for those who have to deal with a harsher reality than I do. What do you think? Are they surely damned unless they convert? Or should we leave that to God?
I am fortunate that we have communion rails at my parish
Amen!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
We have a Communion Rail and it isn't used. Sad
@@jwm6314 Who is Jesus’s God?
Who is Paul referring to as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ”?
Who is Peter referring to as “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”?
Who is Jesus referring to when he says “my God”?
Rom 15
6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Cor 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
2 Cor 11
31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed for ever, knows that I do not lie.
Eph 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
Col 1
3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
1 Pet 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Rev 1
6 and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 3
12 He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.
@@jwm6314
Where is “God the Son” in scripture???
Where is “Jesus is fully God and fully man” on scripture???
Who is Jesus’s God?
Who is Paul referring to as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ”?
Who is Peter referring to as “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”?
Who is Jesus referring to when he says “my God”?
Rom 15
6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Cor 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
2 Cor 11
31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed for ever, knows that I do not lie.
Eph 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
Col 1
3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
1 Pet 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Rev 1
6 and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 3
12 He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.
I've been a carismatic for more than thirty years, i've seen it all. I also was the RCC leader for the Archdioces of SJ for many years, from the 6 Diocese in Puerto Rico, San Juan was the only Diocese that gave 7 month of formation retreats, requested by a meeting of Bishops (Do not leave the newlyborn without formation). After that you were ready to work wherever your priest needed you. But there is nothing like the Latin Mass. I think we graduate, once we discover this. I have to drive 1 hour to another Diocese to participate in the Latin Mass every Sunday.
👍🏻💪🏻🙏🏻
@NelsonMuizRosario Me to I loved charismatic Mass, went to a Latin Mass and that was me I will never leave the Latin Mass.
I have to mention that I go to traditional mass, but I still have faith in charismatic renewal retreats. There I felt God in many ways. But in the traditional Mass, I don't need to feel, I know it is there, and that gives me perseverance in wanting to develop holiness in everyday life.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Be careful what you want! The holy spirit is not in protestant movements. Many have needed exorcism after having people other than priest impose there hands on them. See Fr Ripperger!
@@mitchellc4 that's called the arian heresy. It's cringey. You should stop.
@@mr_mars_vr I’m not an Arian
Who is Jesus repeatedly referring to as “my God”?
Rev 3
12 He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.
@@mitchellc4 Gen 1:26, Let us make humankind in our image according to our likeness.
John 1:1, In the beginning was the Word and Word was with God and the Word was God.
Luke 24: 52, 53, And they worshipped Him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and they were continually in the temple blessing God.
Your post reflects a clear misunderstanding of what the Trinity means as three separate coequal parts of the same Divinity and a misunderstanding of how to effectively use Sola Scriptura to validate an argument. It is illogical to assume that God the Son is referring to God the Father as an entirely separate Person, or else the whole merit of the Bible is made invalid. Please read the entire New Testament and apply actual theological reasoning to your perspective, because the heretical belief that Jesus is not God would presuppose that Christianity is polytheistic, which it isn't. Hope that helps, God love you.
I was raised a Charismatic Pentecostal before I converted to Catholicism and now attend the Latin Mass. The problem with the Charismatic movement is that it comes from protestantism as well as the fact that it puts a lot of focus on the “religious experience” which can be extremely dangerous as people end up putting their faith in these experiences and essentially sentimentalism and if you put your faith in the religious experience you are just going to go to the place that gives you the best “spiritual high”. I truly do not understand how people can see the beautiful traditional liturgy of the Church and say “you know this would be great if it looked more like what protestants are doing”. It also seemed that places that have the most Charismatic Catholicism think Brazil, (my native) Puerto Rico also have droves of people converting to Charismatic Pentecostalism. Worship like a protestant become a protestant.
They actually changed the mass in the 60s hoping that in would appeal to Protestants and that they might return to the church.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Why look down on Protestantism ??? You had the truth...now why do you reject the Pentecostal way.? Latin masses were not around back in the days of the Apostles. I was in the RC seminary I have studied Liturgical theology...Latin masses came much later so did the exalting of the clerical state and stress on praying to the BVM and saints....I had hopes that the Charismatic Renewal would have put the RC back on the Bible road.
@@Beanbag777 or "entertain" Catholics more so they wouldn't leave.
Interesting. Makes sense what you are saying. For me though, ( I was raise traditional), the Charismatic Evangelical movement RENEWED me, redeemed me again. Droves of people converting to Christianity is a wonderful thing. Pursuing a spiritual high is a shallow - and materialistic thing to do, but a spiritual high is not a sign of weakness, it a reality we should remain open to.
Bring back the rails!!!! At both masses the latin and novos ordo (: I love the Latin mass I love they way they love the eucharist and love novo ordo how easy it is to follow along for everyone (: let's go back to traditional catholic values ! Viva Cristo Rey ♡♡
Yes that is very important , in one of the visions in 2019 , Saint Paul the Apostle was teaching about the Mass ,he taught that " Mass which I now know is Latin mass or traditional " you know I was being introduced to catholicism In different visions ,dreams and reading of church Fathers. One important thing I saw in this vision was the separation between the altar by rails ,& also the priest is supposed to put on clean sandles in the area of the altar as I saw.But Iam not yet confessed as Catholic but have gone to a couple of masses . I don't even know whom to tell these things since am not yet Catholic .
@@beorbeorian150 What are you talking about.Do you love your God with all hart and mind.Will you die for him.That is only matter for God.Not someting new or old.I don't undestand people who thing that faith is job.
Bring back the rails, the rest will follow. To quote Field of Dreams; "Build it, and they will come."
Yes, bring back the Communion rails.
Sometimes I wonder do people read the gospels and if so where in the gospels does Christ want barriers and divisions.
Christ is a king like no other king. Kings live in castle's or palaces with high walls and soldiers guarding them from the commoners. The king would expect his subjects to die for him. Is this the life that Jesus lived?
Christ wasn't born in a palace he was born in a barn. He did not pick well to do people as his disciples, he picked lowly ordinary people. Christ walked among us sinner's and tax collectors, he was critised for doing so. When he died the Curtin in the temple tore in half. This Curtin represented the division between God and man. So what message is Christ giving us through how he lived his life and how he died. He didn't say how we should worship but by his example he showed us the way to heaven.
To be part of his church we must be part of his body. How can we accomplish this if we put up barriers like alter rails, and we can not touch him. To worship him I must learn a certain language, a language that he never spoke,
or I can read along in English as the priests prays in Latin, how ludicrous is that. I want to pray meaningful prayers to Christ not babble. He deserves prayers from my heart. Let's follow Christ's example and word's, not what we want.
God bless.
Something beautiful happened to me on Divine Mercy Sunday.
I attended the Divine Mercy Service, & went up to Father Anthony for the laying on the hands. I prayed all the way up to the altar & and seconds after I was lying on the floor slain in the Holy Spirit. This was my first time, & I felt so cleansed & blessed.
I’d like to share with you more details. I’ve never felt so loved.
Thank you Jesus My Lord
I've discovered so many awesome homilies on UA-cam since the pandemic hit. So much talent out there! I'm praying the church is renewed by the Spirit.🕊🌹
The Blessed Virgin Mary's sweet smile makes me take the Rosary in my hand and say it everyday (in 2018 she came to me personally:)...feeling the presence of Jesus in Communion and in Adoration gives me great joy, and praising and worshipping God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, each time, brings tears of joy to my eyes. This is home.
She came to you personally? Like literally
@@Justinian506 Yes Wojciech, she did.
Traditional Catholics are completely open to the Holy Spirit. Charismatic openness to the spirit is less about actual openness to the spirit and more rooted in sensual experience. Trads just listen to John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila, they’re open to the spirit but they’re also prudent. John of the Cross speaks to great length about how the devil can deceive us through our sensual experiences, so unlike the charismatics who don’t do a prudent job of testing the spirit, trad Catholics do test the spirits and rely on the teachings of St John or a good spiritual director to help guide them through these spiritual encounters. Being prudent isn’t the same as being closed off to something.
I have heard an account of some Christians in Angola, they would yell, "speak in tounges" and feel a spirit pressence. When they came into contact with a European mission, they decided to pray to God that if these things were from him that they continue, but that if they were not from him that they cease. They never again experienced any of these spiritual "gifts".
I think you mean sensory experience?
And that's the truth. The doctor of the Church both Sts. Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross has already warned us about it. Even St. Thomas Aquinas regarding the gifts of tounge which is a scam in the charismatic church.
Agreed
Read Corinthians 14. There's enough proof that speaking in tongues and other exalted states should be kept as private experiences and to be shared to the rest of the community afterwards in a peaceful and edifying manner. There's undoubtful pressence of the Spirit in catholic prayer and music, I personally have experienced deep emotional and hard to define bliss and relief at mass.
So glad I found your channel. I want to Catholic Church for 13 years and didn’t learn the traditional Latin mass, but I’m happy to learn about it now so I can teach it to my kids
The Latin Mass , I believe, would bring more Catholic’s together, rather than having ethnic Masses.
Agree, After attending NO for 60 years, went one time to a TLM recently and could not wait to join, I look forward going to Mass, Communion and Confession . Can’t get enough❤️
Before I moved 30 years ago the church I attended, started going more charismatic, I am a cradle Catholic, I had never heard of being slain/sleep in the spirit or anyone speaking in tongues, etc.,
What I experienced at that church on several occasions was just beautiful,
Latin Mass appeals more to European background Catholics, to people who are non European, ethnic language mass helps big time. That’s why church is growing in Africa, Asia and Middle East
@@bpcathcrusader4952
I have to disagree. Considering the type of climate most Africans, Asians and Middle Easterners find themselves in, the Church is most likely growing in these regions because of martyrs and missionaries.
Almost always, growth in the Church is associated with death. The ultimate testimony and witness to the faith.
Should we learn hundreds of languages as Catholics throughout the world in order to understand all the different vernaculars at Mass when we travel or just one? Every Catholic is at home anywhere around the world no matter where they travel with the TLM.
@@John-tx8gs
Truly the TLM should be said at every Roman Catholic Church, once a week, on Sunday at the most convenient time (anywhere between 10am - 12nn).
While the Ordinary Rite should be performed for the rest of the time. I don't see why that can't be a thing, aside from the ire of the bishops who mainly loathe tradition. The bishops are the ONLY ones standing in the way of such a wonderful and simple compromise to this "us versus them" issue within the church.
What boggles me most is, if the TLM brings people into the Church, whether converts or reverts, then why not just make it more accessible?
I have seen thousands and thousands of miracles and people come back to God through the catholic charismatic priest, they are so holy and encourage everyone to return to God.I have experienced it in my own family.Praise God 🙏
unlike your experience of catholicism, i was molested by a priest when i was 5 years old.. Keep wasting your time with fictional gods and people of the cloth that are merely hypocrites.
I thank you so much for this very inspiring and interesting program. I follow Fr Goring daily as well.
Superb query! Thank you dear Fr Mark... your point of the anointing on both sides of the orthodox Catholic groups is a very good observation.
I've been part of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal from high school, since the last 40 years and I was born and grew in the strength and devotion of the traditional CATHOLIC CHURCH.
In Mumbai where I've been part of the Service team of the CCR, parish prayer groups are still alive and growing because of having a great balance and depth of both sides.
I love my Catholic Church and I'm also deeply part of the Charismatic Movement... teaching and training... having learnt from our CCR stalwarts such as Frs. Fio Mascarenhas, Rufus Pereira, Gino Henriques etc.
Would love to meet you Fr Mark someday.
I love this! I’m a traditional Catholic, but I speak charismatically. I guess call me “tradismatic.”
Charismatrad
Chad
I am also a Charismatic Catholic who loves the traditional Mass. I, an 88 year old cradle Catholic, relish watching my 13 year old grandson serving the Latin Mass. I am lifted up when I hear him saying the Latin responses that I still remember!
Thank you, Jesus!!
@@Bingbongaroo that was brilliant my good sir
@@Bingbongaroo lol chad!! 😂😂👏👏👏
I'm a convert from Protestantism. I was searching for truth and found it's teaching in a charismatic Catholic church. After the lockdown, I found living the truth in charity through a traditional Latin Mass church (and the availability of the Sacraments). Both have had enormous impact on my spiritual life. What a great journey!
I was convert from Protestant, confirmed in July! I guess covid was the push we needed?
@@piper_sss 👍🏻💪🏻🙏🏻
Thank you Father, Son and Holy Spirit for the wonderful priests we have like Fr Mark
Amen! " we don't call on the Holy Spirit enough!"
Amen
I think as Catholics we need to embrace peoples differences. Its not helpful splitting traditionals against Novas Ordo!
Though I totally agree that we should always receive our Lord on our knees! I cannot understand who, how, or why, that was changed!
Nothing wrong with receiving communion standing, it’s done in the Eastern rite Catholic Churches all the time
@@bpcathcrusader4952 Nothing wrong morally, but it's not part of our tradition as it organically developed. Just like I wouldn't suggest that Byzantine Catholics should start kneeling since it's not part of their tradition. The virtue of piety is important to recall in our time. Having a respect for the traditions of our fathers in the Faith is a lost virtue in modern times brought about by our non-Catholic neighbors in Western Secular nations. But this sentiment is not Catholic and should be rejected as alien and repugnant to our worldview.
@@bpcathcrusader4952
I am not necessarily saying it is wrong. Though I am saying that it is more reverent on our knees! I know that if Jesus was standing in front of me, I would be on my knees in worship! It shouldn't be any different receiving him in the Eucharistic form!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
it's the vatican 2 council that split the church.
The Franciscan Friars of the Holy Spirit are a perfect example of this. Those guys rock.
Haha! What a coincidence, I actually go to St. Mary’s of Redford under the Franciscans of the Holy Spirit. We are definitely a blend between the Charismatic and TLM :)
BTDT
God has been putting that in my Heart ❤ to Father Mark. I believe all our Churches should be doing it this way.
I am Charismatic Orthodox Catholic if that makes sense? I have met Jesus in this group. I have experienced His spirit, I have experienced the Holy Spirit in my journey as Catholic. I'm 48 and since I am 16 I encountered Jesus in a "personal way" and I have got healed, brought back to the faith, I have got my children healed from illnesses through this group. I don't know what I would have done if Charismatic Catholics would not exist. God has poured out His holy grace upon me and my family through this group.
Thank you Jesus for that.
Yes! Bring back the Communion rails!!!!!
Communion rails are a beautiful blessing.
Totally agree with you Fr.Mark.Bring Communion rails back.
I converted in the 70s. Now i understand much more than I ever have even after 4 years of deacon training and leading Bibke studies etc andvmuch reading . Now i understand the reason for the altar rails . Kneeling to recieve in reverence. Priest facing altar to lead us to our Lord who's center if our worship.. no need for laity to distribute because they are not ordained and..thus. their hands are not ordained to distribute Our Lord . Etc . I can only attend TLM ON LINE for now. Then go to novus locally .
I LOVE THIS!! COME HOLY SPIRIT!!!
Awesome great news Fr Mark bring back the Truth and Tradition of the Church teaching and learning more about the Holy Spirit now is the Time.
good one! great convo
I was converted from a charismatic retreat, there I knew and served a lot. Later I learned about the tradition thanks to the San Peter fraternity in Guadalajara. I like to call myself tradysmatic, but it is true that charismatic renewal needs more clarity and a more attachment to tradition. Especially regarding the gifts of tongues those aspects. Blessings!
Me doy cuenta que en Mexico en especial es más difícil separarse de la renovación, y poder encontrar un grupo “tardo” para ser parte de, es muy difícil. Yo me considero tradicional, pero al igual que tu empezé en la RCC
@@gracefulmeadow sí, yo he ido a distintas comunidades y he encontrado cosas que no me agradan. Tengo fe en que la renovación carismática bien aplicada puede dar frutos; pero es necesario que se aclaren muchos puntos. Sobretodo me sobresalta en ocasiones el tipo de adoración Eucarística, y los dones del Espíritu Santo, cómo es el don de lenguas, siento que es importante aclarar porque he notado que cada comunidad le define distinto. Y la misa tradicional, no hay palabras, es la misa, punto, no hay manera de no enamorarse y sentirse atraído hacia la tradición, sobretodo con la comunidad San Pedro en Cadenas. Un fuerte saludo, bendiciones.
I totally agree with you.
@@jamesdelap4085 lol no it's not
What worries me most about "Charismatic" Catholics and their services, either prayer or Mass, is that they perform very questionable practices like "speaking in tongues."
"Speaking in tongues" is probably one of the most misused practices in "charismatic" circles as well as one of the most misunderstood passages in the Bible for "charismatics."
It says, very clearly in the Bible, what speaking in tongues means:
"All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. 5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[b] 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” - Acts 2:4-11
CLEARLY, they did not speak in "Angelic tongues" but in the tongues of other men (other national languages or dialects).
Personally, I believe that "speaking in tongues," particularly "Angelic tongues" is flirting with the demonic.
Why would you be so proud to proclaim that you speak an "Angelic tongue"? Which "angel" are you speaking with?
I consider have been considering myself a tradismatic for quite a few years and I do think the church will grow if we keep the 2 together to form a solid foundation instead of opposing the 2. They go together. Praise the Lord for this introduction as faithful Catholics can be united to practice the one and only true faith.
Just found this I listen to Father Goring and thought he must be charismatic. I have been a charismatic evangelical for 40 years reverting back to Catholicism but missing the fullness of the gifts of the spirit. Most people would be surprised to learn that the Catechism does not speak against the gifts. The blending of the two would make for a most powerful mass. We do have contemporary worship at a Sunday 5pm mass but also have Latin Mass alter rails Etc.
I love Fr.Mark Goring’s video!!
Fr Mark is the perfect combo of both Charasmatic and Tradition!!
Yep. Great answers! Tradismatic is a good balance, which produces great fruit.
Good answer, i would just be careful of being engorged in the charismatic portion and solely having an emotional relationship with God
Excellent point! I hope there are more people who are as wise as you.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
What i like about charismatic is that they do call upon the Holy Spirit a lot, vibrant and full of awe to God. I remember father Roger Vandenikker at St Mary church celebrating the Eucharist oh gush you could sense God around the whole church. Charismatic church changed me profoundly to have a personal relationship with God. Some churches feel like just reading and no passion about what they are preaching. Love traditions too, but ...
As a 'traditional' TLM loving Catholic I never really got into the 'charismatic movement' but I'm also not against it. I don't really like certain aspects of it but the Catholics involved are very solid and orthodox.
Yes! Communion rails and receiving on the tongue!!
Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast what is good.
1 Thessalonians 5, 19-21
God bless you.
God is present everywhere, in silence, in calm lake, in storm, in thunder.
God Bless You.🙏🙏
Charismatic Catholics: Hey the Bible-thumping holy rolling Protestants got nothing on us. We can talk gibberish and jump around, too!
There is much Charismatic worship in the old testament. The people raised their hands they sang with all their might. The priests went first in the battle praising and singing. They danced before the Lord. Piety yes, Holiness yes, Vigor yes.
Exactly
We’re not blessed to have the TLM in our diocese, but my heart is to worship in the TLM as I see its objective excellence. But yeah, I have a background in the charismatic renewal and have seen many fruits there for sure. I like Father and Matt’s approach to this as both/and, not either/or. May God help the Church move forward in Spirit and Truth!
@PintsWithAquinas thanks for asking the question! Would you be open to doing a whole show on this topic? I feel like many people would benefit greatly from even more clarity of thought on the issue, myself included.
Fr Mark, two thumbs up! 👍👍 I love the Latin Mass we should go back tradition especially in Canada, the Latin Mass is hard to find
Depends on where you are. If you're in Southern Ontario, lots of choice. Where are you located?
In Africa, the Catholic Charismatic renewal is the main driver of growth in the Catholic church. The Catholic Charismatic renewal are more enriching and more active. Those sound in traditional Catholic teachings don't derail when they become Charismatic. I was a Catholic Charismatic renewal member for many years in Nigeria.
Hello everyone! I am definitely a "traditional" catholic, however my wife I are currently attending the "Life in the Spirit" seminar. WOWIEE the Holy Spirit is alive in us like never before. It is changing the way we understand and see everything, we really feel like the Holy Spirit is transforming our lives like never before and we cannot understand why something like our "Life in the Spirit" seminar isn't advertised more within the Church. I really think "Charismatic" and "Traditional" Catholics are both traditional and complimentary.
What we have learned specifically from life in the spirit that kind of went past our heads beforehand :
1) We need to have faith FIRST before the Bible makes sense, I always assumed it has to do with your literacy or intelligence. It is the Holy Spirit that is inspiring our thoughts. (The testimonies we hear from people in our seminar have helped increase our faith)
2) Sin is suffocating the Holy Spirit working within us, once we haven honest confession and turn from sin the Holy Spirit is able to grow within us, we just have to let it grow and not fight the transformation. (We often think we know better than God so we resist.)
3) The gifts Jesus Christ gave to us have already been given, we simply need to accept and use them.
4) It is a lot simpler than we think and we over complicate things. We need to think reasonably and faithfully to understand.
We are going to grow the one true Catholic Church by making individual relationships with people one person at a time just as the early church did. We need to use every opportunity we can and listen for the Holy Spirit to prompt us into having conversations with people. Wearing a cross around my neck and giving people a simple nod is enough for some people to start talking to you. Follow the Holy Spirit where the conversation takes you.
charismatism for 26 yrs now im happy to be a Traditional reason why im a catholic today GB
Both are important but both must come together this is what is missing. Personally being introduced to the charismatic side in the Catholic Church has strengthened my faith, i go to Latin mass as well
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@M J
Would you like to answer the question now?
Who is Jesus repeatedly referring to as “my God”?
Rev 3
12 He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.
@@mitchellc4 The Father is the only true God. We have no problem with that. We'd have a problem if it said "the only true person" -- "only true God" is indeed a characteristic that the Father possesses.
I agree with you
@@mitchellc4 Jesus is both true Man and true God. His human nature died on the Cross, His divine nature obviously never died, and allowed Him to resurrect Himself.
Come Holy Spirit!😃🙏🏻🕊🔥❤️🔥🕊🙏🏻
I agree with you Fr Mark. It is impossible for people to deeply respect and believe in the real presence if the Eucharist is treated like a piece of bread. This is a very necessary talk.
Brilliant thoughts
How is that traditional Catholics wouldn't be interested in the Charisms of the Holy Spirit? I'm not a speaking in tongue type myself, but of course, I am also devoted to the Holy Spirit. Are we trying to create some fictional divide amongst Catholics? I don't understand.
I'm both!🙋♀️🙋♀️🙋♀️🙋♀️🙋♀️
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@Mitchell C Gosh, calm down, man, we love you. Why don't you read the catechism of the catholic church first, then you know what catholics believe and then come back and talk! 😋
@@J9flyJ
What does that have to do with what I said?
forget it, doesn't matter.
Communion rails are very important, very respectful & honorable way to receive the Blessed Sacrament! And we love traditional & Charismatic!
Love Fr. Mark!
Charismatics tend to draw the looney
Yes, we need both! the Traditional to guide us in how most reverently to celebrate the Mass and the Liturgy. We need the Charismatic to go out, evangelize, gather the lost, and heal the broken. Definitely don't think they're opposed, though it's hard because I have quite a few traditional Catholic friends who aren't open to the charismatic ideas at all which is a problem, as would charismatic Catholics shutting out the traditional would be. At the end of the day, they have the same goal, to revive the Catholic Church, for traditionalists in the liturgy and for the charismatic in evangelization. They're also at their best both so rooted in scripture and church history.
There were no communion rails in the early Church.
As much as I respect the piety here, I cannot help but acknowledge that the first recipients of the Transubstantiation of Christ was given in the hand.
Receiving in the hand is a direct and humble acceptance of a physical Being.
- my hands hold the real presence.
It is a visceral experience that moves my physical body to act accordingly.
Yes I've been wanting and asking for communion rails. I pray they will return.
Why can't we just take the benefits of both? I was set on fire by the Charasmatic movement, but as I grow deeper with that, I also have grown a deeper love for a traditional mass with communion rails and chant. It isn't an either or question. You can do both.
You Catholics are so bless you got both of the blessing,The traditional and a plus Catholic Charismatic . Now l am blessed enough to attending both.😉😇😊
I so totally agree about the communion rails and communion handed out by consecrated hands only
Wooaw! There is Charisma Catholics also? After I have upen the door to catholics in this autum and more I go in the Catholic rabbithole I llooooove it!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mitchellc4 Mitchell! You keep repeating yourself!
The Church is both. :-)
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mitchellc4 The scripture also says there will be a new heavens and a "new earth", so you shouldn't expect your references to be to the earth as we know it now.
Further, we can't pretend to know the mind of God with our limited understanding, but the scripture does not say Jesus is not God. On the contrary, Scripture says the "Word" was in the beginning, the "Word" was with God and the "Word" was made flesh. Who do you think this Word in flesh is?
And God gave us his name "I Am Who Am" and later Jesus also referred to Himself as "I Am".
We don't think Jesus is a separate God, but of the same nature as the Father. He and the Father are one, but in some way (which is a mystery to our level of understanding), they are two persons. And the Holy Spirit (the Paraclete) proceeds from the love the Father and Son have for each other. We refer to these 3 persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) as the Trinity; one nature, one God, we are a monotheistic religion, but we believe God has revealed that He is 3 persons.
If Jesus was only a man, how would his death expiate our sins and overcome death? A mere man cannot do this.
God works through the charismatic I did a healing of the family tree mass and my grandmother returned to my family after 15 years after disappearing from our family . We were both becoming Catholic 400 miles away from each other and didn't know . God works in mysterious ways 🙏
I wish I had a spiritual advisor like you
Yes. I wish the communion rails will come back.
I think the communion rails are important as a reminder that the altar is sacred because Our Lord is present in the tabernacle. Also, the altar rails encourage the laity to kneel which is the correct position to show respect and humility. Receiving on the tongue ( as a child would when being fed) is also a reminder that we are children of God. The priest has consecrated hands and we do not. The vernacular Liturgy needs to help the faithful to experience the sacred and the transcendent. We are receiving Our Lord in Holy Communion and the Mass is the representation of Our Lord’s Holy Sacrifice on the Cross. The laity needs to be reminded of this essential point more frequently and should be encouraged to meditate upon this essential point. There seems to be a deliberate shying away from mentioning this nowadays. Could we have more reminders that there is a difference between the priest and the laity please? ... Bring back a sense of the sacred in Holy Mass, please.
Glad to see this video. I am older, and began with Latin mass. Have been part of a Charismatic Catholic renewal. There are many ways to the centre of a diamond. This is how I view various preferences to celebrate mass. There was a time when I did not like the word piety, as I saw it as superficial. I remember hearing a young boy on moving to a traditional mass, asking his mother ‘why everyone is so sad?’ I also remember thinking as a young adult “ If we want to keep our youth from “partying” we had better offer a mass that was enjoyable! Charismatic in other words. Yes, mass is not meant to be entertainment, but sharing the Truth and Joy and Peace of Jesus with others, is a touch of heaven! I think it is wonderful that I learned how to truly worship God through singing demonstratively. Yes, this probably is something gained from the protestants, but SO WHAT? I am not going to jump ship! It is good be aware of how and why the Catholic Church has changed (Dr Marshal), so that I am not being played, but different ages and personalities and ways of being and worshipping can add richness and help us to grow in our faith. No matter how the word of God is proclaimed, it will not return to the father unfulfilled. I was allowed as a child to go to a Protestant church as a teenager as long as I also went to the Catholic. A good call on behalf of my dad. The church is in the world, but it had better not be of the world, I get that, I also get that this can happen slowly and steadily, unperceived by us. The BLM sign in so called Catholic Churches is much more than worrisome, it really is apostasy. Thanks for letting me rant. 🤓✌️
Maybe "everyone is so sad" at the TLM is because it is a return to Calvary, a renewal of the sacrifice of God to God, where we are all gathered at the foot of the cross?
@@chookiechooks Good point! It probably depends on the masses readings . I guess it would depend if the people were sad at all the masses. I remember being so joyful and thankful for the new life in Christ.
@@chomperthefirst533 The sacrifice at Calvary is the core of every TLM. The “tone” may vary, literally the different modes of chant. I love the TLM for its transcendent, rather than emotional, quality, and the sacred silence. It seems totally at odds with the highly emotional and noisy charismatic worship. I can’t comprehend how anyone can say that a hybrid is possible, as the video discussion seems to imply. However, many of the comments seem to be saying that some people enjoy both for different reasons, rather than thinking they can be mixed together.
The thing is, Mass being "enjoyable" completely takes away from the point of it. It's not entertainment. It is worship. Look at all of the old Testament forms of worship that God required of His people. Wouldnt at all call them "enjoyable". In charity, I say I worry about the actions that speak more to our emotions than our minds. Our faith is supposed to be designed by the will, by reason. Letting charismatic things form it more makes it seem more like an emotionally driven choice than a rational one.
@@StJoanGuideMe God often tells His people to rejoice and be glad. I think emotions can be part of worship as long as they are appropriate and kept under the control of right reason. The Gospel is called the Good News after all, and God's goodness and merciful are cause for true joy and the higheat celebration.
Thank you 🙏
I am a Catholic Charismatic. Our Church has the kneelers and I love to kneel and to receive Jesus on the tongue.
However I prefer to pray in English. My parents prayed from their hearts in Spanish but I grew up praying in English. I don't understand the Latin prayers the music is lovely but I prefer to singalong and lift up my heart to God in English. Usually the congregation do not partisapate are sung by
St. John of the Cross’ Ascent Of Mount Carmel says so much against the emotional Charismatic renewal. So few of the saints have received the charisms, to think that everyone today receives them is quite crazy. Musicae Sacrae has much to say also. Please read!
wow Ian Smith I didn`t know that about St John of the Cross I just knew that many of these renewals are not good and use the laity to take their energy like energy vampires
Piotr , St. John of the Cross of course does not mention the phraseology because it didn’t exist, but he did mention the idea, and to an extent deeper then what you correctly sited. He talks about that in prayer, especially in worship, we should ought to be wholly grounded in soul and be rid of emotion because the devil can elicit feelings within us. The problem with the charismatic renewal is that is places an emotional/physical experience as the object of its worship, it often will concede this; and if one doesn’t feel anything they’d think: “I can’t pray, God doesn’t hear me”, which is fundamentally misconceived. Prayer should be divorced of self and wholly for God, not expecting and desiring of feeling as the renewal puts at its heart. Yes in the early Church you are right, but every other time period in history the charisms were rare and exclusive gifts given to saints in states of great sanctity! The charisms are specific supernatural gifts too, not all these new terms the renewal has created (also, is the Holy Ghost chiefly a feeling within us?). As regards beauty in Mass, beauty elicits an emotion but it first is the recognition in the identifying intellect (cf. Aquinas) of the beautiful, like unto God, which produces a change in the body.
Piotr , I totally agree with most of the things that you are saying. I also agree that it can theoretically be a beneficial movement. It seems that you have some rather pious Catholic renewal friends, but what I’ve witnessed is much to the contrary. This being said, I think it is wide scale negative because of the following reasons. One, It inclines man to a state of spiritual immaturity: engulfed in worship music very secularized, contrary to Musicae Sacrae’s teachings, judging growth and prayer based on experiencing, and indulging in the “influx of the Holy Ghost.” Every charismatic “worship” I’ve seen looks far more emotional and loud than my former Lutheran services. Second, connecting positive feeling with the Holy Spirit: this John of the Cross spends much time in condemning. This is why he says don’t use positive emotion as jumping of point in prayer, let pray procede from the heart purely (chapter 11 if I recall correctly). You’re right we are not Buddhists and accept emotion, but in prayer/worship it can come from Satan as well. This is why he highlights the emotion piece so strongly! Third, the millions of reports of charisms received such as speaking in tongues: this fruit, belief that one is miraculously given gifts of speaking in tongues, etc., is central to the renewal. Linguists have proved that they speak no true language in any form at all. Fourth, it came from the Protestant Pentecostal movement. Further, most of the Catholic charismatic founders actually left the movement!
Good to create awareness of the Holy Ghost in our lives I agree and serve with our graces and gifts, but the renewal strictly espouses one’s ability to personal experience in some way these changes, which is my fundamental disagreement. And I would like the learn what your suggested text has to say, certainly.
Piotr , In addition, perhaps some leaders of the Catholic charismatic renewal we’re not fundamentally misconceived in their doctrine, but drawing from the Protestant Pentecostal movement, the charismatic renewal acquired many of its false tenets along with it. Seeing these in action today within the Church I think it must be conceded that there is a great present danger, regardless of some of its founders/leaders, as it appears in much part just like the Pentecostal religion.
Por que no los dos? I've been seeing a mixture of the two appearing if anything
Trads are a suspicious people who would rather have no emotional component to their faith than be led astray by interior whims. Charismatics would rather be blown about by whatever spirit crosses their path, holy or otherwise, just so long as they feel something.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Charismatic/Traditional by the way we practice our Faith, at the crux of it, we are Catholics, part of the one, holy, apostolic Catholic Church. Both Charismatic and Traditional ways are beautiful and have their own advantages, especially because both are according to the Church and both have an amazing love for the Sacraments! It's even more amazing when it blends and intersects with each other! 🔥🙌🏽
Amen
Tradismatic! Wonderful! Thank you for that. I am wondering what the heck is wrong with me, and why I like both. God Bless you!
Fr. Mark Goring is a huge role model for Catholics everywhere. He really gets what it means to be a true Catholic and a spiritual father as well. It seems like he has wisdom beyond his years.
I begged my husband to go to a Chrismatic prayer meeting, he refused. He told me to take OUR LADYS STATUE AND MY ROSARY. I did, they took the Statue and left it on the table outside, no Rosary, they asked me to speak if the HOLY SPIRIT had something to say, shaking in my shoes, I went to the mic, big meeting, and I do not know what I was going to say. The words came out. YOU ALL ARE CRUCIFYING ME AGAIN.. I left
How so?
@@blondetapperware8289 it told me that Our Lady was not important and the Rosary wasn’t either
Catholic Charismatic Renewal is big on the rosary, I guess you went to one that had a Protestant influence.
@@aretrograde7745 apparently you only went to the Protestant influenced ones. I come from the Middle East, lived in India, Phillipines, South America, the CCR prayer groups there are big on the Holy Rosary and Holy Adoration. In the US unfortunately, we live in a protestantized culture, so it reflects. Though I’m surprised that you have not seen them pray the Rosary at Steubenville!
@@dorismootz465 Then a demon has deceived you. Any spirit who could have spread falsehoods about our Blessed Mother was a demon trying to spread lies.
I believe that Father Mark is a prophet as well and I thank God with all my heart for his teaching every time I hear him..... reminds me of Moses keeping his arms up when Israelites were fighting...🙏🙏🙏
I agree with everything that Father Goring said!!!
I was a born again Christian for over twenty years and “the movement” of the Holy Spirit was used constantly. The Catholic Faith is the truth and the mass is the highest form of worship and prayer. Dilute that and dilute The Faith. The Holy Spirit moves in us through the sacraments and manifests in us by convicting us of sin and making us holy; which in turn sanctifies us and brings us closer to God. There’s no greater movement than that.
Put back the confessional booth and the rails!
I am not your demographic, and I never read more than two or three comments when your videos pop up in my feed. Some comments are just too, well, not what I think Jesus has called us to. [I'm not here to be a troll, so I'll keep my adjectives to myself. 😉] But, I have been at events where Father M was a speaker and have read one of his books, so I watched two of your videos with Father in them. It was fabulous to find out that you have preferences (which I totally respect) without being a schismatic and without accusing the rest of us who also have legit, but different, preferences of the same. You give me hope that people who love the Lord can answer His call to become one heart and mind in Christ without subscribing to a false rigidity that stifles the Holy Spirit's work in any area. Have a blessed day, and thanks for your work. Let's keep praying to the Holy Spirit to make us one in Christ.
Praised be Jesus! God bless you.
The main concern I have around charismatic prayer groups is the "speaking in tongues" that happens. After learning a bit about it, it sounds like there are two types of speaking in tongues:
1.) The kind that happened at Pentecost where the Apostles were able to speak many different languages while preaching the Gospel.
2.) The incoherent jabber where no one understands what the person is saying, including the person speaking.
The second version I described is what concerns me most. It concerns me because we are unable to translate it. So I have two questions around this:
1.) Why would God, who gave humans the ability to intelligently worship Him, have us praise him in such an absurd way?
2.) If no one can translate for this person, how do we know that the person isn't speaking demonic things?
I love the devotion to the Holy Spirit and Tradition, but I’m not on board with the “charismatic renewal”.
Paul actually talks about the two versions of Speaking in Tongues. He also says both has it's purposes. You may refer to the Bible for that. 😇🙌🏽
@@fnv870 Scripture isn’t the only source of Truth we have as Catholics. We are not Protestant. Our worship needs to be in line with reason. Mindless babble that goes uninterpreted is unreasonable.
1 Corinthians 14 pretty much sums it up. As Paul says in verse 8 "But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God". He says you can't edify the church if nobody understands what you are saying. In other words, zip it if there is no interpreter. If one speaks in tongues, they ought to pray that they can also interpret. So those 'babbling in the Spirit' we see nowadays and rolling on the floor is not the work of the Holy Spirit. How does this edify the church? I would agree with your comment above that perhaps they are 'speaking demonic things'.
@@aretrograde7745 I agree totally with you
@@ICXC-NIKA4642 I agreed with you. The part "babbling in the Spirit make me feel uncomfortable", as St Paul say (can't remember where): "there are different gifts of Holy Spirit, but for the same purpose, the Gift has to be benefit for others"
I’m a charismatic catholic AND a traditionalist. The trad part came later after I did an Alpha course. What happened when they prayed over me at the Weekend Away at Alpha was that the Holy Spirit came down on me like a ton of bricks....far more powerfully than when I was originally baptised in the Holy Spirit. I was reflecting on that later and wondering why when I remembered that about a month earlier my wife and I had done the 33 day consecration to Mary. I recalled the words of St Louis de Montfort and I’m paraphrasing here....”When the Holy Spirit when searching among souls encounters a soul consecrated to His Spouse...Mary most Holy, He rushes into that soul and blesses it mightily”. So when Charismatics tell me they are baptised in the Holy Spirit....I reply ...Big deal, Mary is MARRIED to the Holy Spirit....beat that Charismatics! 😀
The problem with the Charismatic Renewal is that after the original outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the famous Duchesne weekend , they were formed and taught by Pentecostals because they were experienced in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. There were no Catholics who could form them. So the result was that the early Charismatics were not taught about Mary and many are still suspicious of her...which is crazy because Mary is the greatest Charismatic of them all.
My wife and I now embrace all three..the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and devotion to Mary, and Eucharistic adoration.
Love St Louis de Montfort and your explanation after the Duchesne weekend -also "So when Charismatics tell me they are baptised in the Holy Spirit....I reply ...Big deal, Mary is MARRIED to the Holy Spirit....beat that Charismatics!" Amen
@@susanrodrigues811 👍
@@T_dog1
Trevor you missed my point entirely. I never said that Charismatics were traditional. I know when the Charismatic Renewal started ...it was in 1967 as you said....at the famous Duchesne university retreat weekend (which was in 1967, which is what I said. God bless you.
Fr. Goring on point! I’m a convert to trad and I looooove it. However, I have seen where there’s a need to meet people where they are at. Such as Jesus did. Bishop Espilliat, the youngest Bishop in the USA is the perfect example of bringing in the lost young people by meeting them where they are. It’s genius. It’s Jesus way!!
BTW Matt, please get Fr Richard Simon from Ave Maria radio on your show to talk about this very subject. He came up as a priest during the beginning of the Charismatic renewal, and is a thoroughly orthodox (small o) diocesan priest. PHENOMENAL PREACHER. Please get him on your show, I think he has a lot to contribute here, he's been in the trenches, so to speak.
I hope that when (hopefully!) I meet Jesus, He continues to speak English to me and not latin. My school marks for latin were shockiing!
I would consider myself and wife as both.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Thanks for the clip! Want to share my thoughts on that! I think to be charismatic is actually to be like the 12 apostles and the first desicples! To live a life filled with the holy spirit like the first Christians did. And to me that is one of the oldest traditions! 🔥 🔥 🔥
The best mix seems to be something like strong traditional catechesis and TLM to form and maintain those already within the Church. And then charismatic evangelization (+taking cues from protestants) to grow the body of Christ.
Im spoiled, I grew up in a church that is the perfect blend and healthy balance of the TLM and the Norvus Ordo. We have best of both worlds.
What church do you attend?
The reason I am asking is to hopefully incorporate this liturgy in my own parish. I would like to contact the priests to help my parish achieve this. Please respond