Was so loud last week on the northern line that I observed two strangers on the train actually strike up a conversation about it, not sure which was more alarming
Yes, it's one of those experiences never to be forgotten! 🙂 It's not that bad, trust me, compared to the Green Line in Boston. Come to Boston and ride the Green Line light rail from North Station to Copley Square to experience this first hand. The curve between Tremont Street and Boyleston Street is the tightest on the system and has a maximum speed of 5 mph. There are greasers positioned on the curve but they don't help much, and the "T" has been implementing many of the same sound mitigating things that TFL has but with very little affect as far as I can tell. There are many videos of the Green Line and of this particular section on UA-cam. Because of the tight curves, any new trams have to be customized in order to accommodate the line otherwise they will derail in the tunnel, which happened with an early order of new trams from BREDA a number of years ago. When a train derailed on the curve, it caused a substantial amount of damage and shut down that part of the line for many months. BREDA had to retrofit the new trams and reimburse the "T" for the damage because someone didn't follow directions. This subway (tram line), by the way is the oldest in North America and the third oldest still in use worldwide to exclusively use electric traction. As Jago said, the early tunnel was built to follow the street.
The noise in some parts of the underground is not only annoying, but also is known to damage hearing. This is particularly a problem when you have to commute through the same parts every workday. Wearing noise cancelling earphones or earplugs does help.
I was on the Jubilee line yesterday south of Bond Street somewhere and my watch warned me that the noise level has increased beyond 90dB and continuous exposure over half an hour long can cause temporary hearing loss.
O dear yes the Jubilee line is by far the loudest. I was using it just a few weeks ago, and due to be back in london in a couple of weeks. I live in rural france, so its a shock to the system. Worth it all the same.
Personally I’d say the Central Line is the loudest. Between Liverpool St. and Bethnal Green going eastbound I once clocked 120dB, but it’s usually around 117-118dB in that area.
According to a senior ex BR engineer it's not the flanges that squeal, it's the treads. Train axles don't have a differential so in a tight curve the wheels must slip slightly on the rails.
Some 30 plus years ago I was part of a team that designed a rail recovery winch for the London Underground. When replacing rails the practice had been to leave the removed rail between the tracks. The point had been reached where they had run out of room.
LU still does store spare and scrap rail in the 4ft; between the negative conductor rail and the running rail furthest away from the tunnel lights (which may be on either side)
@@aprilsmith1166 can be both, new rail can be dragged in before hand. Atleast on other railway's if you're running a rail train around you might as well get your money's worth out of it and drop off as much as you can.
I used to take the Victoria line every day to work. I'm autistic and the noise bothered me quite a lot, I do remember other passengers staring while I covered my ears. It would put me on edge since I'd be waiting for a loud noise the whole time I was riding the tube. I've since got some noise cancelling headphones - and fallen in love with the tube now that I can experience it without the noise!
As a fellow autist, I dearly wish I could get noise-cancelling headphones (both for train noise and building noise at home and college), but, unfortunately, every time I’ve tried, my balance and proprioception skills have deteriorated to the point where it’s simply impossible to do anything any more. 😔😖
@@DrWhoFanJ Have you tried aviation headphones? I appreciate they are considerably more expensive, but they have to work to higher specifications and may help you. I have a pair of Bose A20's and whilst I don't suffer from Autism, so can't say if they would help , I do find my vestibular senses can be sensitive to situations and headphones, that's not a case with the Bose. That said I didn't get oo with the David Clarks.
@@hypergolic8468 Unfortunately I doubt it’s a problem pair that can be solved, since even the basic concept of covering my ears in and of itself is enough to cause the balance difficulties, regardless of the manner or form said covering takes. Thanks for making an actual suggestion, at least. It’s not your fault it’s impracticable. (Genuinely not intended rudely at all; I just could not find another viable way to phrase it!)
@@DrWhoFanJ No: it's absolutely not rude, it's a suggestion that won't work for you and that's fair enough, absolutely no offense taken. I must say as a condition, it really does read like something that aviation medicine would maybe offer some suggestions on. Regardless, I wish you all the best on finding a solution.
You don't have to be autistic to suffer. I am not autistic but I do have very sensitive hearing and I suffer in exactly the same way you do from noise. I haven't travelled on the Underground for 20+ years now but I can still remember the screeching of the wheels on the rails and it was physically painful. I have the same reaction to most electric hand driers in public toilets. Th only one I can tolerate is the blue blade thingy that Dyson manufactures. Very fast; relatively quiet, it's a positive giant amongst hand driers!
The Elizabeth Line is an amazing experience after transferring from the Tube. The stations seem to be lined with some sound-absorbing material which makes for a surprising lack of reverb in what is a massive cavern. The platform doors block out most of the noise of a train pulling in. Then the trains and rails themselves are so smooth that all you hear is the gentle whine of the motor electronics and the whoosh of the air being pushed out of the way in the tunnel. Truly sublime.
@@FrecklesAviationWell except the current ones, they'd have to be almost completely rebuilt which isn't going to happen. Also as some insist the Elizabeth line isn't a tube line, It's entirely possible that we never get another tube line.
@@kwlkid85 Never know what the future will bring. I agree with you, but hold out at least some hope that they will improve at least the size of the older stations. Maybe in 100 years time, who knows.
The Elizabeth Line is somewhat helped by having larger tunnels. It's noticeable that people haven't complained in the comments about the Metropolitan, District and Circle lines which have similar dimensions.
@@kwlkid85 well here in the sunny island city of the lion, those kind of constructions and setup sans the noise cancelling are the literal Standard, tho the authorities to be like those cheap arse trains made from china (CRRC Qingdao Shifang), so the cabin still sounds similar so earbuds it is.
The central line from Liverpool Street to bethnal green is deafening. It used to hurt my ears, now I guess my ears are damaged to the point where it no longer hurts
I used to commute on this route and was thinking of this section of track .. as distances between stations go it is a longer distance than many, even after 30+ years I still remember the noise. I used to use the sounds as they change to guess how long before arrival at the next station, espceially in the evenigns on the way home Essex bound.
@@imsbvs It's a long section and trains get up to higher speed, so I guess rail wear is greater. The Victoria Line on the long stretch between Finsbury Park and Seven Sisters is similar (and in some other places).
The London Underground is something else. Some of the Metro lines in Paris (and I forget where else in the world) run on rubber tyres. The sound of those tyres on their flat rails, the doors opening when the passengers unlatched them manually (once the safety is unlocked by the driver), the signal before the doors close, the doors closing and locking, the whine of the electric engines as the train starts moving are all etched in my memory, growing up in Paris. This is the Rock'n Roll of my childhood (That, The Beatles and Creedence Clearwater Revival!).
Some of the Rubber-Tyred metros in the world: Busan - Guangzhou - Hiroshima - Kobe - Lausanne - Lille - Lyon - Macao - Marseille - Mexico City - Miami - Montreal - Osaka - Paris - Rennes - Saitama - Santiago de Chile - Sapporo - Seoul - Shanghai - Singapore - Taipei - Tokyo - Torino - Toulouse - Yokohama
Rubber tyre metros are really interesting. I wonder how the air pollution from the rubber tyres compares to the pollution from dust on the underground, though.
Rubber-tyred metro sets are used on some Paris lines to enable trains to manage steep gradients; an example is Ligne 11. Three other lines (1, 4, 6) were converted to rubber tyres in the 1960s and 1970s, but there have been no more conversions since. Only new lines will have rubber tyred sets where deemed necessary. In exchange for better grip on steep lines, rubber tyres do have considerably more rolling resistance than steel wheels and so need more energy to run a train fitted with them.
the northern line extension and new track to bank have to be the worst offenders by far, especially considering you should expect a new piece of rail to be quiet and modern
A long section of 50 mph in a constant curve with smooth sided concrete tunnel walls accounts for much of the noise between Kennington and Nine Elms. The tunnel there is also wider (indeed, it's wider on the whole of the Battersea extension) giving more scope for an echo. I suspect it's the same smooth sided tunnel walls combined with a sudden tight S-turn that accounts for the noise on the new approach to Bank on the southbound. Those two sections are possibly the loudest most consistently, although the section between Camden Town and Euston is by far the worst when it's been a while since the rail grinder has come past. That section can get so loud I can no longer hear calls over the radio, even with the volume turned up to full.
@@Definitelycreated I hate to disagree with you, but the Northern line absolutely does 50 mph in the section between Kennington and Nine Elms. To be exact, it accelerates to 40 mph once clear of Kennington Park, and then accelerates to 50 mph once clear of the ventilation shaft until clear of the second intervention point. :)
The obvious solution is to strap a Very Senior Librarian to the front of every train. That would eliminate the noise problem immediately. I can't understand why TfL has not yet considered it.
That is an exquisite proposition my friend. The question remaining is this: if two such trains were to be heading for a frontal collision, at what point would the librarians break their silence? Would they at all? Or would they surrender their bodies to the pursuit of science.
It's like asking why the NYC Subway is so loud. It's AGING railroad technology with local AND express trains, sharp turns and curved stations, walls good for reflecting and amplifying noise, and trains with steel wheels on steel tracks, on a system that operates *24/7 every day of the year* that limit time to maintain said aging technology. To a first-time rider, it's an annoyance. But to someone like me who never gets tired of visiting NYC and riding the subway, it's part of the noises of the city and the experience of being in NYC. The complainers are like "Give us platform doors", "Upgrade the stations", but fixing the system isn't an easy one and done task. They were even complaining about the new R211s! It's gonna take baby steps to fix a system as huge and old as NYC's.
I feel as though Costa or Nero should sponsor these rail maintenance vehicles since they're both experts at grinding. :) As a two-visit-to-London rider, I have noticed how loud the rails are as opposed to some parts of my home underground system (DC's WMATA/Metro).
A subway system is loud? Oh no! ANYWAY, here are some Pyongyang Metro facts: The Pyongyang Metro was designed to operate every few minutes. During rush hour, the trains can operate at a minimum interval of two minutes. The trains have the ability to play music and other recordings. The Pyongyang Metro is the cheapest in the world to ride, at only five DPRK won (worth half of a US cent) per ticket. Nowadays, the network uses contactless cards like other systems. The network runs entirely underground. The design of the network was based on metro networks in other communist countries, in particular the Moscow Metro. Both networks share many characteristics, such as the great depth of the lines (over 100 meters or 330 feet) and the large distances between stations. Another common feature is the Socialist realist art on display. Each Metro station has a free toilet for use by patrons. Stations also play state radio-broadcasts and have a display of the Rodong Sinmun newspaper.
I remember someone near me saying that the grinding sounds of the tracks on the JLE sounded like " something out of *Harry Pottah* " Will never forget that.
It's a train - it's going to be loud. I'm more interested in the smell. The tube has a unique aroma unlike anything else I can think of. When I'm there after a long absence from London, the scent of the underground is powerful. I kinda like it, to be honest, but only in short doses. I wouldn't want my house to smell like the Circle line or anything.
Jubilee line has some shockingly loud sections on the newest sections. Often I go out to gigs in the evening carrying earplugs in case the music is too loud. More often than not, I need them on the tube to and from the venue more than at the actual gig.
I love the sound of trains arriving at London Bridge. A few minutes before they pull in the lines just resonate with an amazing sound. I'd love a sample of that.
The Glasgow Subway (being a smaller version of the Underground in effect) can be exceedingly loud in certain places between stations. Track noise, the rails themselves (fixed directly into a concrete trackbed), the small trains & tunnels (which only exacerbates the noise issue), and the side-to-side swaying aka the 'shoogle'. Yes, it's a loop line so of course it's going to be noiser in the curves, but it can also be loud on straight sections of line, like between Govan & Ibrox stations (even taking into account the pointwork for the access tracks in/out of Broomloan Depot in that section). I doubt the noise levels will noticeably abate when the new Stadler trains (eventually) enter revenue service.
I like it too, I went 4 times to London in my life and I will go more and when I was on tube trains for me was fascinating listening at London Underground's tunnel noises.
I was once on the Victoria line leaving from Vauxhall northbound. There was a section that lasted around 10 seconds where the screeching resonated with my eardrums. My ears rang for the rest of the day.
I visited London last October and was very impressed by the Underground's many aspects, particularly by how quiet it was. I live in Chicago, a city that loves to boast about its transit system. (The truth, lamentably, is that Chicago - like many other American cities - could learn a thing or twelve from the London Underground.) The noise level in London pales in comparison to Chicago's subway. You don't know how good you have it. Thank you for your videos. They are educational as well as entertaining. I wish I had discovered them BEFORE visiting London. It would have made my visit that much more enjoyable.
Well now, if you can spend some more time investigating Jago's offerings, you will soon find what the early Chicago street rail system and the London Underground have in common.....!
Railroad cars generally have fixed axles going all the way across without any kind of differential mechanism to allow the wheels to rotate at different rates. That means that if the car is on a curve, either there needs to be some way to effectively give the wheels different diameters, or the wheels are going to grind against the track. The conventional mechanism for the first option is to give the wheels conical profiles, with varying diameters over their width. As the train rounds a curve, it will naturally tend to find a banked position in which the wheel diameters are slightly different where they actually contact the rails, so the wheels can roll without squealing. Or, at least, that is the ideal situation. In practice, building in too much of this tends to lead to hunting oscillations, where the train sways from side to side, making for an unpleasant ride. So in choosing a wheel profile, there's a tradeoff between ride comfort and noise abatement. One thing I"ve idly wondered is if it would ever be practical to abandon fixed axles on railroads and just allow some kind of differential rotation, as we do with road vehicles and roller coasters. Presumably it would make the cars heavier and more mechanically complex.
My wife and I have just spent three marvellous weeks in London. I totally agree that certain parts, especially some curves are extremely loud. It got to the stage where I would block my ears to keep the noise out. It doesn’t help with the open windows on the doors of each car. The sounds coming into the platforms isn’t too bad. Love your work Jago. Might you consider doing a video on Mornington Crescent station? Over the last few years, I have become aware of the game on the show “I’m Sorry I Haven’t a Clue”. We did a trip to MC station to pay our respects to the hallowed turf.
Flange greasers have been in use on the Underground for many years. They are a reservoir of grease applied to the tips of the wheel flanges when the outer edge of the wheel actuates a couple of plungers. The don't cure the problem entirely but they do reduce the wear and the noise.
I have always thought that the tube noise was an almost intentional lullaby to help with those of us that enjoy getting some extra snoozing done between home and work and, in the words of Bilbo Baggins "There and Back Again." so between work and home once more. 😴
One of the few nice things about Montréal's tiny metro system is that the rails are there as a backup. The trains run on rubber tires which are fairly quiet.
On the other hand rubber tyre metro trains have the disadvantage of creating a lot of lot of air pollution and heat as the tyres break down - not the best thing when you’re in an underground tunnel.
In my experience rubber tyred metros make a constant roar. You also get lots of tyre dust build up in tunnels that is pretty bad for you. I'd certainly rather be on a modern steel rail metro.
@@MPKampersand more from luck than good judgement but I lived in a Montreal apartment and travelled downtown to my office without having to go outdoors, similarly I could visit several shopping venues without actually encountering any snow or inclement weather. I felt quite futuristic.
Another way that tfl has tackled this is widening the tunnel. Between kentish town and camden town on the northern line, there used to be a deafening screech, but now it is a much more tolerable screech and this tunnel section is visibly wider.
My first thought on reading the title was that you were about to comment on the constant stream of on train announcement preventing one from having a quiet snooze. Rail and general train noise I can sleep through.
Born and bred a Londoner, I’ve never found the Tube to be offensively noisy - it’s just, well, the noise an underground mechanical train would make. I bolted London several years ago but, on my return trips from the country, am not aghast at sound levels. It’s not an issue.
I've measured the sound levels on the Northern Line at over 100dB, and TfL says they have measured as much as 117dB. Prolonged exposure to noise at those levels will cause hearing damage. I rode the tube frequently when I lived in London twenty years ago, and in recent years it seems to be much worse. I've ridden subway systems thoughout Europe and North America and don't recall any that are quite so loud.
I think the best solution is soundproofing the trains. In Paris, line 2 has modern railcars with air conditioning and sound deadening - I find it a lot more pleasant and less tiring to ride than line 3, for instance.
Dear Jago, great vid. However, I don’t think the noise level in the London Underground is only due to the tight curves. The nickname of the Tube kinda gives a clue. The tunnel construction is in most cases a completely circular form. Furthermore, inside that full round construction, the construction of the rail floor is poured onto the outer shell, without noise barriers. Also, electrical conduits, and other pipes have been mounted in a similar way. Platform constructions and maintenance access ramps are often ‘open’ structures and attached directly to the tunnel walls. First of all, the circular form of a tunnel is an absolute nightmare for noise reduction. In fact the ‘tube’ functions as a kind of horn. Secondly, the way the inner construction is mounted, only amplifies the sound further and more, because the sound waves are still able to reach to outer shell of tunnel. Hence, those innovative track supports, don’t really do that much. In later tube designs, you will see a more mushroomy circumference, which will make the noise both less sharp, as will it decrease the capacity of the tunnel to carry sound. Rail floors in modern tunnels are laid on thick sheets of rubber, on which separate concrete structures are placed, to which eventually the rail is mounted with the modern equivalent of sound deadening rail chairs. Even conduits are mounted on sound deadening brackets. Also, diversifying the tunnel form is used to decrease the impact of sound caused by the wheels touching the rails. The other thing about this, is of course that those early tube lines often followed the street patterns, but also to just use the above ground rolling stock underground, or at the very least, for the very first livery’s. On the magnificent exploded views of the London Underground, one can truly see, what kind of an intricate tuba the system has become. I screech for the wheels spinning those tight curves. Spin the tail of the tube’s tuba.
Hi. I'm Troy McClure. You might remember me from dis information films. Crashing: it's not as painful as you think and toasters:a forks best friend. The tube. Loud right? Well here is Dr. Nick Riviera to explain why you're wrong. Hi everybody Hi Dr nick. Noise is only a matter of participation. Precipitation. No reception.. Preception. Therefore if you think its quiet it will be. This is according to science. Let's try. See ITS WISPER QUIET. Troy: wow
The close to 180° curve on the Bakerloo line as it approaches Paddington station always produces a squeal .This acts as a timely signal to stand up in order to disembark at said station.
A friend of mine was working on the sound for a TV project about the 2007 tube bombings. Whilst sat on the tube, I had the idea that maybe the tube scream was the the cry of any poor lost souls. A horrible moment in our tubes History, but I thought it was a kinda poetic way of looking at it.
most critical is echoing, the same train on the same rails outdoor is much less noisy. It can be addressed by noise absorbers (flexible matts, fabric, foam, fiber panels etc) but in tunnel they require enormous maintenance (cleaning from dust, replacement of broken parts etc) so no one in the world use it.
In Kongsberg Norway they have a mining train that goes a couple of kilometers into the mountain, and it doesnt really drive that fast, but the narrow tunnels and the metal carriages ratteling around makes a really loud noise, you get handed out earplugs
Hello Jago, thank you for a very interesting video. I prefer the UndergrounD sounds and such music as “Rhythm On Rails” by Charles Williams (1943) although “Finchley Central” (on the Northern Line) and “Warwick Avenue” (on the Bakerloo Line) and even “Waterloo Sunset” (especially the 2012 version) is my favourite. The sounds of the UndergrounD trains are far nicer than heavy metal but that’s just my “train of thought” on a “transport of delight” Oh yes I love the old LT Trolleybuses, RT and RM buses. To me, Heavy metal = 1938 stock train emerging from tunnel over the rail joint (real memories from 1971-2)
Finchley Central costs two and sixpence to Golders Green on the Northern Line.1960s hit for The New Vaudeville Band who were better known for "Winchester Cathedral".
When I lived in Northern California I took BART regularly through the Transbay tube; I bought my first pair of 3m work tunes shortly after at the recommendation of my occupational health officer.
For "lubricating the rails" -- several decades ago, a station manager for the very noisy green line at the "Government Center" in Boston (USA) decided that added some grease to the lines would make the trains quieter. The actual result is that the trains then failed to brake in time, sliding right past their stops, much to the consternation of the drivers and passengers. (Government Center has some really tight curves. There's also a donut shop at platform level, making it automatically an awesome station!)
One screech I heard on the underground reminded me of an over the hill operatic soprano I actually paid money to hear. (Ah, the things one does at a music festival in Venice especially with a few too many glasses of vino.)
Acoustic engineer here. Measured it the other day on the Victoria line as Leq (average noise level) of 94dBA. That’s well above hearing damage. Maximum was 103dBA.
I went on the Tube yesterday with friends as we were on a day trip to london (my first time going to london in 7 years) and it is interesting to learn what caused those loud noises we heard every so often on some of the tube lines. It was a really fun experience getting to ride the tube around Central London, and although it was only for a couple stops we got to go on so many different lines.
I like it too, I also recorded some videos about particulars wheel flange noises in certain points, for example in the Central Line from Tottenham Court Road to Holborn near the crossover
when I think about the London Underground one of the first things that comes in my mind are the wheel flanges, I can't Imagine the tube without his loud noises 😂
Entertaining coverage of an interesting subject. When I was a boy and much of the system was populated with 1938 stock the trains were noisy but it was mostly thunderous low frequency with plenty of bumps and bangs but with much less of the ghastly screeching we now experience. Perhaps the wooden frames of the old stock had a part to play but the later “silver” stocks which followed still seemed less afflicted. Tube Mice ?
Outside of the long term hearing damage, the noise makes it hostile to those with sensitive hearing whether physilogical or psycological. For myself, I pretty much have to wear noise cancelling headphones to get around London.
Re. "lubricating the rails" - this is done on the main line on very sharp curves, such as those at Borough Market Junction (between Charing Cross, Cannon Street, and London Bridge). The lubrication is not put on the rail head - where it would certainly cause wheel slip - but on the inner face of the outside rail on a curve, where the wheel flanges rub against it, causing that grinding, screeching noise. HTH
Noise is not the only hazard for Underground employees. Particulate matter in the air of the Underground is of similar quality to a coal mine. My father, a train guard, and train driver, suffered from an illness similar to Silicosis wich lead to his early death.
The problem on curves is partly geometry and partly train design. The wheels on the outside of a curve have farther to travel than on the inside, so given that the wheels are solidly connected via axles something has to slide - hence metal to metal screeching! Question - why can’t trains have free wheeling wheels like cars, and differentials on the driven wheels so they don’t have this intrinsic problem? I’m sure there must be a reason why trains always have solid axles? Is it just a cost thing?
Train wheels have a taper on them that acts as a differential (the diameter of the wheel is smaller on the edge of the wheel when compared to the diameter at the flange root. There is also the squeal caused by the flange rubbing against the side of the rail. As for wheelset design, it would be very difficult to produce something that would improve the situation without impacting on reliability and cost. Improvements have been made by better bogie design, it will be interesting to see how well the new 24TS performs on the Piccadilly Line.
@@johnfry1011 Yes I’d forgotten about the taper. I guess that can ameliorate a bit unless the radius of the curve is too tight, in which case the outside wheel gets pushed against the flange == squeeeaaak!
I measured the screeching noise on the Jubilee Line, and it tops out at 100dB. I approached TfL for comment and they said this was caused by roughness on the top surface of the rails, which developed over time. The plan was to smooth out the rails twice a year, but this only provided a short term solution. Also there was no legal limit for noise on the tube. - Of course they apologised for the discomfort, but considering there is also limit for the temperature down there, it’s quite the lawless place 😂
TfL has a general duty of care towards its passengers, and that includes not subjecting them to overly loud sounds. There is a fair amount of case law which supports my assertion.
@@hb1338unfortunately, they don’t seem too bothered about duty of care. They have been getting away with excessive heat, excessive noise, and reduced staffing (for safety) for years. Hopefully some day that will change, but that won’t be without a fight.
A few years ago I had a commute that involved getting the Northern Line to Morden. There was one one area, I think near South Wimbledon, which made a really horrible noise. You could spot regular passengers as they put their hands over their ears when we left the station as they knew it was about to start. I complained to TfL and was told it was special track to reduce noise and vibration on the surface. A few weeks ago I had to go to Morden and the horrible noise had gone! Hurray!
I suppose the deep tube is an echo chamber, after all, it's enclosed with the sound having nowhere in particular to go. To be totally fair, when I've visited London, and ridden the deep tube, I have found the noise more comforting than irritating, if the Underground was eerily quiet, I'd be spooked!
Also on the tube. Because alot of the lines are ATO trains run at exactly the same speed at very regular intervals which leads to track ware in the same parts, which is why the jubilee line extension and Victoria line near Oxford circus is so loud its fast and frequent. This leads to the wheels vibrating more thus creating alot more noise, overtime
Interesting that you mentioned lubrication. I used to stay with my nephew in the old Port Authority building in Melbourne, below which was a very tight tram curve. The trams made an awful screeching noise going round it - but only on dry days. In the rain, they were blissfully quiet.
They say the tube is loud but it's nothing compared to the brakes of the old pacers that used to run around up here in the north hehe. Even then theres no escape from the screeching no matter what train your on.
It's true, it can be... It's annoying for the vast majority of people, I just love it! Here in Argentina we have some nice tight curves in a couple of lines, they are wonderful, the metal of the wheels tugging against the rails, a unique sound. What I can find very annoying is the excessive squealing of the brakes when entering the stations, but I know that it is due to a matter of maintenance and wear, although they are mostly new cars... Rare.
JAGO!! You are completely right about the train sounds being preferable! I would MUCH prefer a long journey on the 1996 stock then to attend some horrid rock concert!
One time, I worked on a Saturday when Wales were playing at Twickenham. I still remember the singing. Halfway up the escalator I could hear 'sospan fach' from the platform. It was louder than the arriving train.
For some odd reason I like hearing these track sounds. Jago, a perfect example of a loud track which is very local to you is between Tooting Broadway and Tooting Bec. Fortunately or unfortunately I have to ride this section everyday, but usually the noise wakes me up as I travel to school. Love the videos, keep it up!
I'm not from London, but when I visited, I had to take the section of Jubilee between Canary Warf and Canada Water pretty frequently, and its ear-deafening. It was honestly surprising given that its one of the newer sections of Tube.
As an old codger approaching 65 I can honestly state that noise wasn’t such a big issue when I was a young commuter. We didn’t have mobile devices back then so perhaps they’re making it noisier so that people wearing earphones can still hear and appreciate the noise.
So, the train isn't in a fixed position on the tracks. It's sitting in an equilibrium position where by the forces tend to act on it to keep it in what looks like a fixed position. Needless to say, on corners like this, a force is applied to push the train towards the outside of the curve. This force can overcome part of that equilibrium to an extent. But then the train settles back into position. So you get this wobble between the natural stationary position, and the slight tilt to one side on the corner. This causes the train to shift and metal on metal rubbing is the sound you are hearing. The problem is, at the time they built the tunnels, they didn't know or care about a lot of this, so with ground rail, you can have the rails camber around a tight corner, where the track isn't on a perfectly flat ground. But, you cannot do this with the tunnels, unless you want to redesign them. The ground is flat, and there isn't any way to fix this, other then replacing that second of tunnel.
Honestly, given pretty much every commuter seems to have a pair of noise-cancelling headphones these days, this feels like one of these issues that has largely solved itself, at least for those who would find it most annoying!
I'm not sure how much there is to talk about on the subject, but I would love the video where your outro starts "I hope you enjoyed this riveting tale ..."
This video reminded me of the bit in The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time where he compares the sound of an approaching Central Line train to 'people fighting with swords'.
As others have pointed out there are bits of the DLR and Tram systems that have noise too. I think Platform 2 and16 approaches at Clapham Junction are pretty noisy from the check rails on the curves
when i visited London again in 2022 i did not expect it, i did not remember the sound being that bad so glad i always carry my loop earplugs and noise canceling earbuds really helped
I went to Heathrow on the Piccadilly line yesterday and f--k me one part was so noisy that even listening to music at full volume on headphone sit was drowned out by the screeching
Part vof the cause may be that the tube uses a much harder grade of steel for wheel tyres and rails than surface lines. I recall reading years ago that when the Isle of Wight line was electrified and '38 stock was shipped over, the existing rails began to wear very rapidly, and small heaps of swarf and steel dust began to appear around curves and pointwork. IIRC, a lot of re-railing was needed, using rail rolled for LT.
I watched this video when it was published, and commented that in all the many, many years that I have used the tube that I had not noticed how noisy it was. I used the tube today. Now that I am aware of the noise, I found the noise most annoying. Thank you Jago - not! 2:04
Was so loud last week on the northern line that I observed two strangers on the train actually strike up a conversation about it, not sure which was more alarming
Crikey!
Blimey
Lord above!
Bloody hell!
hell's bells
Something extremely rare on YT. The mention of "noise-cancelling headphones" without the word "sponsor" nearby.
*Linus kek tips*
bUy RaYcOn EaRbUdS fOr OnLy $300
Ah, the deafening sound of an underground train on a tight curve. Once experienced never to be forgotten 🥴
Eh?
@@mumblbeebee6546 What did he say?
I need to turn my earing aid on, the tube too noisy for it, can you say again.
Yes, it's one of those experiences never to be forgotten! 🙂
It's not that bad, trust me, compared to the Green Line in Boston. Come to Boston and ride the Green Line light rail from North Station to Copley Square to experience this first hand. The curve between Tremont Street and Boyleston Street is the tightest on the system and has a maximum speed of 5 mph. There are greasers positioned on the curve but they don't help much, and the "T" has been implementing many of the same sound mitigating things that TFL has but with very little affect as far as I can tell. There are many videos of the Green Line and of this particular section on UA-cam.
Because of the tight curves, any new trams have to be customized in order to accommodate the line otherwise they will derail in the tunnel, which happened with an early order of new trams from BREDA a number of years ago. When a train derailed on the curve, it caused a substantial amount of damage and shut down that part of the line for many months. BREDA had to retrofit the new trams and reimburse the "T" for the damage because someone didn't follow directions.
This subway (tram line), by the way is the oldest in North America and the third oldest still in use worldwide to exclusively use electric traction. As Jago said, the early tunnel was built to follow the street.
Yep yep, I hope it somehow gets resolved, I just feel it has to be, across the network.
The noise in some parts of the underground is not only annoying, but also is known to damage hearing. This is particularly a problem when you have to commute through the same parts every workday. Wearing noise cancelling earphones or earplugs does help.
my tinnutis got worse after experiencing one of the older lines in london
That's literally what I do, I use headphones to cancel out the irritating screeches on the tube 100% of the time
@@iiExplosionz12 That's no way to talk about your fellow passengers, however inane their conversations may be! ;)
Yep, very true, I have read about this, and it needs to be addressed, and I feel this won't go on forever.
goddam it who mentioned tinnitus that always reminds me of the constant ringing in my ears
I was on the Jubilee line yesterday south of Bond Street somewhere and my watch warned me that the noise level has increased beyond 90dB and continuous exposure over half an hour long can cause temporary hearing loss.
O dear yes the Jubilee line is by far the loudest. I was using it just a few weeks ago, and due to be back in london in a couple of weeks. I live in rural france, so its a shock to the system. Worth it all the same.
@@gunner678 Yes, I agree, the Jubilee seems to be the loudest. The section South of the river is probably the worst.
Personally I’d say the Central Line is the loudest. Between Liverpool St. and Bethnal Green going eastbound I once clocked 120dB, but it’s usually around 117-118dB in that area.
Take the jubille line everyday and my watch constantly warns me of 90 decibels
~ smartwatch with sound meter app,
If you like heavy metal and you have a band, why not call the band The Squealing Flanges?
💌
With support from the Well Lubed Rails.
Consider it done
Damn! beat me to it!
According to a senior ex BR engineer it's not the flanges that squeal, it's the treads. Train axles don't have a differential so in a tight curve the wheels must slip slightly on the rails.
Some 30 plus years ago I was part of a team that designed a rail recovery winch for the London Underground. When replacing rails the practice had been to leave the removed rail between the tracks. The point had been reached where they had run out of room.
I used to wonder what those extra rails were, thanks
@@tbjtbj7930 So did I! I thought they must be spares rather than olds.
LU still does store spare and scrap rail in the 4ft; between the negative conductor rail and the running rail furthest away from the tunnel lights (which may be on either side)
Who could have predicted that? 😀
@@aprilsmith1166 can be both, new rail can be dragged in before hand. Atleast on other railway's if you're running a rail train around you might as well get your money's worth out of it and drop off as much as you can.
I used to take the Victoria line every day to work. I'm autistic and the noise bothered me quite a lot, I do remember other passengers staring while I covered my ears. It would put me on edge since I'd be waiting for a loud noise the whole time I was riding the tube. I've since got some noise cancelling headphones - and fallen in love with the tube now that I can experience it without the noise!
As a fellow autist, I dearly wish I could get noise-cancelling headphones (both for train noise and building noise at home and college), but, unfortunately, every time I’ve tried, my balance and proprioception skills have deteriorated to the point where it’s simply impossible to do anything any more. 😔😖
@@DrWhoFanJ Have you tried aviation headphones? I appreciate they are considerably more expensive, but they have to work to higher specifications and may help you. I have a pair of Bose A20's and whilst I don't suffer from Autism, so can't say if they would help , I do find my vestibular senses can be sensitive to situations and headphones, that's not a case with the Bose. That said I didn't get oo with the David Clarks.
@@hypergolic8468 Unfortunately I doubt it’s a problem pair that can be solved, since even the basic concept of covering my ears in and of itself is enough to cause the balance difficulties, regardless of the manner or form said covering takes.
Thanks for making an actual suggestion, at least. It’s not your fault it’s impracticable. (Genuinely not intended rudely at all; I just could not find another viable way to phrase it!)
@@DrWhoFanJ No: it's absolutely not rude, it's a suggestion that won't work for you and that's fair enough, absolutely no offense taken.
I must say as a condition, it really does read like something that aviation medicine would maybe offer some suggestions on. Regardless, I wish you all the best on finding a solution.
You don't have to be autistic to suffer. I am not autistic but I do have very sensitive hearing and I suffer in exactly the same way you do from noise. I haven't travelled on the Underground for 20+ years now but I can still remember the screeching of the wheels on the rails and it was physically painful.
I have the same reaction to most electric hand driers in public toilets. Th only one I can tolerate is the blue blade thingy that Dyson manufactures. Very fast; relatively quiet, it's a positive giant amongst hand driers!
The Elizabeth Line is an amazing experience after transferring from the Tube. The stations seem to be lined with some sound-absorbing material which makes for a surprising lack of reverb in what is a massive cavern. The platform doors block out most of the noise of a train pulling in. Then the trains and rails themselves are so smooth that all you hear is the gentle whine of the motor electronics and the whoosh of the air being pushed out of the way in the tunnel. Truly sublime.
One day, all the tube lines will be like the elizabeth line
@@FrecklesAviationWell except the current ones, they'd have to be almost completely rebuilt which isn't going to happen. Also as some insist the Elizabeth line isn't a tube line, It's entirely possible that we never get another tube line.
@@kwlkid85 Never know what the future will bring. I agree with you, but hold out at least some hope that they will improve at least the size of the older stations. Maybe in 100 years time, who knows.
The Elizabeth Line is somewhat helped by having larger tunnels. It's noticeable that people haven't complained in the comments about the Metropolitan, District and Circle lines which have similar dimensions.
@@kwlkid85 well here in the sunny island city of the lion, those kind of constructions and setup sans the noise cancelling are the literal Standard, tho the authorities to be like those cheap arse trains made from china (CRRC Qingdao Shifang), so the cabin still sounds similar so earbuds it is.
My noise cancelling headphones are completely defeated when on the Jubilee line between Baker Street and St Johns Wood.
The central line from Liverpool Street to bethnal green is deafening. It used to hurt my ears, now I guess my ears are damaged to the point where it no longer hurts
Yep experienced that bit of the Central Line everyday when I worked in London and always wondered why it was so load.
I used to commute on this route and was thinking of this section of track .. as distances between stations go it is a longer distance than many, even after 30+ years I still remember the noise. I used to use the sounds as they change to guess how long before arrival at the next station, espceially in the evenigns on the way home Essex bound.
I was about to say the exact same thing. Noise on the tube has never bothered me before but that part is appaling. Painful.
@@imsbvs It's a long section and trains get up to higher speed, so I guess rail wear is greater. The Victoria Line on the long stretch between Finsbury Park and Seven Sisters is similar (and in some other places).
The London Underground is something else. Some of the Metro lines in Paris (and I forget where else in the world) run on rubber tyres. The sound of those tyres on their flat rails, the doors opening when the passengers unlatched them manually (once the safety is unlocked by the driver), the signal before the doors close, the doors closing and locking, the whine of the electric engines as the train starts moving are all etched in my memory, growing up in Paris. This is the Rock'n Roll of my childhood (That, The Beatles and Creedence Clearwater Revival!).
Some of the Rubber-Tyred metros in the world:
Busan - Guangzhou - Hiroshima - Kobe - Lausanne - Lille - Lyon - Macao - Marseille - Mexico City - Miami - Montreal - Osaka - Paris - Rennes - Saitama - Santiago de Chile - Sapporo - Seoul - Shanghai - Singapore - Taipei - Tokyo - Torino - Toulouse - Yokohama
Rubber tyre metros are really interesting. I wonder how the air pollution from the rubber tyres compares to the pollution from dust on the underground, though.
@@tomsixsix They are also expensive to run.
Ah Oui, the Ligne 11 I think. When I went to Paris on an exchange visit as a schoolboy, I used to ride that line just to admire the rubber tires.
Rubber-tyred metro sets are used on some Paris lines to enable trains to manage steep gradients; an example is Ligne 11. Three other lines (1, 4, 6) were converted to rubber tyres in the 1960s and 1970s, but there have been no more conversions since. Only new lines will have rubber tyred sets where deemed necessary.
In exchange for better grip on steep lines, rubber tyres do have considerably more rolling resistance than steel wheels and so need more energy to run a train fitted with them.
the northern line extension and new track to bank have to be the worst offenders by far, especially considering you should expect a new piece of rail to be quiet and modern
A long section of 50 mph in a constant curve with smooth sided concrete tunnel walls accounts for much of the noise between Kennington and Nine Elms. The tunnel there is also wider (indeed, it's wider on the whole of the Battersea extension) giving more scope for an echo.
I suspect it's the same smooth sided tunnel walls combined with a sudden tight S-turn that accounts for the noise on the new approach to Bank on the southbound. Those two sections are possibly the loudest most consistently, although the section between Camden Town and Euston is by far the worst when it's been a while since the rail grinder has come past. That section can get so loud I can no longer hear calls over the radio, even with the volume turned up to full.
@@Definitelycreated Sorry, what?
This answers one of my questions that I posed in my top level comment. I was hoping it might be quieter.
@@Definitelycreated I hate to disagree with you, but the Northern line absolutely does 50 mph in the section between Kennington and Nine Elms. To be exact, it accelerates to 40 mph once clear of Kennington Park, and then accelerates to 50 mph once clear of the ventilation shaft until clear of the second intervention point. :)
Have they improved the Waterloo and City line then?
Lubricating lines and vibrational tale? My, my! What a lovely Sunday indeed 😂
1:30 I CACKLED at this! I love the line delivery 😂
Dude I was ready to go fist a cuff! Haha! It was a good one.
The obvious solution is to strap a Very Senior Librarian to the front of every train. That would eliminate the noise problem immediately. I can't understand why TfL has not yet considered it.
That is an exquisite proposition my friend. The question remaining is this: if two such trains were to be heading for a frontal collision, at what point would the librarians break their silence? Would they at all? Or would they surrender their bodies to the pursuit of science.
@@MrSaemichlaus The librarians would issue a flurry of fines which would act upon the braking systems to bring both trains to a safe stop.
🙃
It's the ridges and ruffles that causes the kerfuffles.
Underground noise be like 📢📢📢📢📢📢📢📢📢📢📢
Northern line especially
@@bababababababa6124 yeah
@@bababababababa6124yes! (between CAMDEN TOWN and KENTISH TOWN) Northern line noise is like Hell!
It's like asking why the NYC Subway is so loud. It's AGING railroad technology with local AND express trains, sharp turns and curved stations, walls good for reflecting and amplifying noise, and trains with steel wheels on steel tracks, on a system that operates *24/7 every day of the year* that limit time to maintain said aging technology. To a first-time rider, it's an annoyance. But to someone like me who never gets tired of visiting NYC and riding the subway, it's part of the noises of the city and the experience of being in NYC. The complainers are like "Give us platform doors", "Upgrade the stations", but fixing the system isn't an easy one and done task. They were even complaining about the new R211s! It's gonna take baby steps to fix a system as huge and old as NYC's.
I feel as though Costa or Nero should sponsor these rail maintenance vehicles since they're both experts at grinding. :)
As a two-visit-to-London rider, I have noticed how loud the rails are as opposed to some parts of my home underground system (DC's WMATA/Metro).
The Bakerloo Line must win an award for this.
So much of the noise on the Underground comes from strangers striking up lively conversations and from joyful commuters bursting into song.
A subway system is loud? Oh no! ANYWAY, here are some Pyongyang Metro facts: The Pyongyang Metro was designed to operate every few minutes. During rush hour, the trains can operate at a minimum interval of two minutes. The trains have the ability to play music and other recordings. The Pyongyang Metro is the cheapest in the world to ride, at only five DPRK won (worth half of a US cent) per ticket. Nowadays, the network uses contactless cards like other systems.
The network runs entirely underground. The design of the network was based on metro networks in other communist countries, in particular the Moscow Metro. Both networks share many characteristics, such as the great depth of the lines (over 100 meters or 330 feet) and the large distances between stations. Another common feature is the Socialist realist art on display. Each Metro station has a free toilet for use by patrons. Stations also play state radio-broadcasts and have a display of the Rodong Sinmun newspaper.
We need a video on this, clearly. I hope they let Jago out again afterwards.
I remember someone near me saying that the grinding sounds of the tracks on the JLE sounded like " something out of *Harry Pottah* "
Will never forget that.
It's a train - it's going to be loud. I'm more interested in the smell. The tube has a unique aroma unlike anything else I can think of. When I'm there after a long absence from London, the scent of the underground is powerful. I kinda like it, to be honest, but only in short doses. I wouldn't want my house to smell like the Circle line or anything.
Each line has its own unique scent too
Lots of countries have trains that are quiet, most other places in Western Europe and Asian countries for example. London is behind in that regard.
Jubilee line has some shockingly loud sections on the newest sections. Often I go out to gigs in the evening carrying earplugs in case the music is too loud. More often than not, I need them on the tube to and from the venue more than at the actual gig.
I was just thinking this this afternoon when moving on the Victoria line between Highbury and Euston. What very good timing.
I love the sound of trains arriving at London Bridge. A few minutes before they pull in the lines just resonate with an amazing sound. I'd love a sample of that.
You can have St John's Wood here: ua-cam.com/video/hf4EFDGP4yg/v-deo.html
The Glasgow Subway (being a smaller version of the Underground in effect) can be exceedingly loud in certain places between stations. Track noise, the rails themselves (fixed directly into a concrete trackbed), the small trains & tunnels (which only exacerbates the noise issue), and the side-to-side swaying aka the 'shoogle'.
Yes, it's a loop line so of course it's going to be noiser in the curves, but it can also be loud on straight sections of line, like between Govan & Ibrox stations (even taking into account the pointwork for the access tracks in/out of Broomloan Depot in that section). I doubt the noise levels will noticeably abate when the new Stadler trains (eventually) enter revenue service.
When you mentioned buying noise cancelling headphones, I braced myself for an immediate sponsor hit 😀
I grew up near a railway marshaling yard and I like the sound of trains.
WHAT? I CAN'T HERE YOU? IT'S TOO BLOODY LOUD!!!!!
The noise is all part of the Underground experience. I don't think it would feel the same without it.
Thank you. You beat me to it with your comment.
I like it too, I went 4 times to London in my life and I will go more and when I was on tube trains for me was fascinating listening at London Underground's tunnel noises.
I was once on the Victoria line leaving from Vauxhall northbound. There was a section that lasted around 10 seconds where the screeching resonated with my eardrums. My ears rang for the rest of the day.
I visited London last October and was very impressed by the Underground's many aspects, particularly by how quiet it was. I live in Chicago, a city that loves to boast about its transit system. (The truth, lamentably, is that Chicago - like many other American cities - could learn a thing or twelve from the London Underground.) The noise level in London pales in comparison to Chicago's subway. You don't know how good you have it. Thank you for your videos. They are educational as well as entertaining. I wish I had discovered them BEFORE visiting London. It would have made my visit that much more enjoyable.
Well now, if you can spend some more time investigating Jago's offerings, you will soon find what the early Chicago street rail system and the London Underground have in common.....!
missed opportunity to say your train of thought is interrupted by a train at 0:18 there
Railroad cars generally have fixed axles going all the way across without any kind of differential mechanism to allow the wheels to rotate at different rates. That means that if the car is on a curve, either there needs to be some way to effectively give the wheels different diameters, or the wheels are going to grind against the track.
The conventional mechanism for the first option is to give the wheels conical profiles, with varying diameters over their width. As the train rounds a curve, it will naturally tend to find a banked position in which the wheel diameters are slightly different where they actually contact the rails, so the wheels can roll without squealing. Or, at least, that is the ideal situation. In practice, building in too much of this tends to lead to hunting oscillations, where the train sways from side to side, making for an unpleasant ride.
So in choosing a wheel profile, there's a tradeoff between ride comfort and noise abatement.
One thing I"ve idly wondered is if it would ever be practical to abandon fixed axles on railroads and just allow some kind of differential rotation, as we do with road vehicles and roller coasters. Presumably it would make the cars heavier and more mechanically complex.
Agreed, some sort of passive differential to allow opposite wheels to rotate independently would remove 90% of the screeching.
Just out of Baker St. Towards St. John's Wood on the Jubilee line is some of the worst I've experienced
My wife and I have just spent three marvellous weeks in London. I totally agree that certain parts, especially some curves are extremely loud. It got to the stage where I would block my ears to keep the noise out. It doesn’t help with the open windows on the doors of each car. The sounds coming into the platforms isn’t too bad.
Love your work Jago. Might you consider doing a video on Mornington Crescent station? Over the last few years, I have become aware of the game on the show “I’m Sorry I Haven’t a Clue”. We did a trip to MC station to pay our respects to the hallowed turf.
I can see that it could be a problem for a regular commuter, but for an occasional passenger like me, it's part of the experience.
Flange greasers have been in use on the Underground for many years. They are a reservoir of grease applied to the tips of the wheel flanges when the outer edge of the wheel actuates a couple of plungers. The don't cure the problem entirely but they do reduce the wear and the noise.
I'm not a flange greaser, I'm a flange greaser's son. I'm only greasing flanges till the the flange greaser actuates a couple of plungers.
Greasing a flange is always a good idea - less friction.
I have always thought that the tube noise was an almost intentional lullaby to help with those of us that enjoy getting some extra snoozing done between home and work and, in the words of Bilbo Baggins "There and Back Again." so between work and home once more. 😴
my grandmas house in notting hill is over a sharp corner on the district and circle line so every 6 minutes you can hear the train line underneath
One of the few nice things about Montréal's tiny metro system is that the rails are there as a backup. The trains run on rubber tires which are fairly quiet.
On the other hand rubber tyre metro trains have the disadvantage of creating a lot of lot of air pollution and heat as the tyres break down - not the best thing when you’re in an underground tunnel.
I know that as metro systems go the Montreal metro is tiny, but having lived in a number of other Canadian cities...
In my experience rubber tyred metros make a constant roar. You also get lots of tyre dust build up in tunnels that is pretty bad for you. I'd certainly rather be on a modern steel rail metro.
@@MPKampersand more from luck than good judgement but I lived in a Montreal apartment and travelled downtown to my office without having to go outdoors, similarly I could visit several shopping venues without actually encountering any snow or inclement weather. I felt quite futuristic.
Another way that tfl has tackled this is widening the tunnel.
Between kentish town and camden town on the northern line, there used to be a deafening screech, but now it is a much more tolerable screech and this tunnel section is visibly wider.
My first thought on reading the title was that you were about to comment on the constant stream of on train announcement preventing one from having a quiet snooze. Rail and general train noise I can sleep through.
You mean Sonia… she gets on ya nerves 😉
At least one is not deafened by the constant sirens of the emergency services above ground..... those really crack your ears.
Keep up the amazing work
One of the worst bits is as you leave stratford on the central line going towards Leyton.. in that tunnel… oh my gosh the noise
Absolutely agree. Has anyone had a noise meter on the various lines/routes to demonstrate how comparitively "loud" the sounds are?
Born and bred a Londoner, I’ve never found the Tube to be offensively noisy - it’s just, well, the noise an underground mechanical train would make. I bolted London several years ago but, on my return trips from the country, am not aghast at sound levels. It’s not an issue.
It's not nearly as bad in many other systems.
Londons noise is very much not normal
I've measured the sound levels on the Northern Line at over 100dB, and TfL says they have measured as much as 117dB. Prolonged exposure to noise at those levels will cause hearing damage. I rode the tube frequently when I lived in London twenty years ago, and in recent years it seems to be much worse. I've ridden subway systems thoughout Europe and North America and don't recall any that are quite so loud.
I think the best solution is soundproofing the trains. In Paris, line 2 has modern railcars with air conditioning and sound deadening - I find it a lot more pleasant and less tiring to ride than line 3, for instance.
Dear Jago, great vid. However, I don’t think the noise level in the London Underground is only due to the tight curves. The nickname of the Tube kinda gives a clue. The tunnel construction is in most cases a completely circular form. Furthermore, inside that full round construction, the construction of the rail floor is poured onto the outer shell, without noise barriers. Also, electrical conduits, and other pipes have been mounted in a similar way. Platform constructions and maintenance access ramps are often ‘open’ structures and attached directly to the tunnel walls.
First of all, the circular form of a tunnel is an absolute nightmare for noise reduction. In fact the ‘tube’ functions as a kind of horn. Secondly, the way the inner construction is mounted, only amplifies the sound further and more, because the sound waves are still able to reach to outer shell of tunnel. Hence, those innovative track supports, don’t really do that much. In later tube designs, you will see a more mushroomy circumference, which will make the noise both less sharp, as will it decrease the capacity of the tunnel to carry sound. Rail floors in modern tunnels are laid on thick sheets of rubber, on which separate concrete structures are placed, to which eventually the rail is mounted with the modern equivalent of sound deadening rail chairs. Even conduits are mounted on sound deadening brackets. Also, diversifying the tunnel form is used to decrease the impact of sound caused by the wheels touching the rails.
The other thing about this, is of course that those early tube lines often followed the street patterns, but also to just use the above ground rolling stock underground, or at the very least, for the very first livery’s.
On the magnificent exploded views of the London Underground, one can truly see, what kind of an intricate tuba the system has become. I screech for the wheels spinning those tight curves. Spin the tail of the tube’s tuba.
Hi. I'm Troy McClure. You might remember me from dis information films. Crashing: it's not as painful as you think and toasters:a forks best friend.
The tube. Loud right?
Well here is Dr. Nick Riviera to explain why you're wrong.
Hi everybody
Hi Dr nick.
Noise is only a matter of participation. Precipitation. No reception.. Preception.
Therefore if you think its quiet it will be. This is according to science.
Let's try.
See ITS WISPER QUIET.
Troy: wow
The close to 180° curve on the Bakerloo line as it approaches Paddington station always produces a squeal .This acts as a timely signal to stand up in order to disembark at said station.
A friend of mine was working on the sound for a TV project about the 2007 tube bombings. Whilst sat on the tube, I had the idea that maybe the tube scream was the the cry of any poor lost souls. A horrible moment in our tubes History, but I thought it was a kinda poetic way of looking at it.
most critical is echoing, the same train on the same rails outdoor is much less noisy. It can be addressed by noise absorbers (flexible matts, fabric, foam, fiber panels etc) but in tunnel they require enormous maintenance (cleaning from dust, replacement of broken parts etc) so no one in the world use it.
In Kongsberg Norway they have a mining train that goes a couple of kilometers into the mountain, and it doesnt really drive that fast, but the narrow tunnels and the metal carriages ratteling around makes a really loud noise, you get handed out earplugs
Hello Jago, thank you for a very interesting video.
I prefer the UndergrounD sounds and such music as “Rhythm On Rails” by Charles Williams (1943) although “Finchley Central” (on the Northern Line) and “Warwick Avenue”
(on the Bakerloo Line) and even “Waterloo Sunset” (especially the 2012 version) is my favourite.
The sounds of the UndergrounD trains are far nicer than heavy metal but that’s just my “train of thought” on a “transport of delight”
Oh yes I love the old LT Trolleybuses, RT and RM buses.
To me, Heavy metal = 1938 stock train emerging from tunnel over the rail joint (real memories from 1971-2)
Note to self: find 1938 rolling stock.
Finchley Central costs two and sixpence to Golders Green on the Northern Line.1960s hit for The New Vaudeville Band who were better known for "Winchester Cathedral".
When I lived in Northern California I took BART regularly through the Transbay tube; I bought my first pair of 3m work tunes shortly after at the recommendation of my occupational health officer.
For "lubricating the rails" -- several decades ago, a station manager for the very noisy green line at the "Government Center" in Boston (USA) decided that added some grease to the lines would make the trains quieter. The actual result is that the trains then failed to brake in time, sliding right past their stops, much to the consternation of the drivers and passengers.
(Government Center has some really tight curves. There's also a donut shop at platform level, making it automatically an awesome station!)
I heard they got a lot of great desks and chairs at Government Center
That's funny!😂
One screech I heard on the underground reminded me of an over the hill operatic soprano I actually paid money to hear. (Ah, the things one does at a music festival in Venice especially with a few too many glasses of vino.)
A friend of mine once described the voice of an aging soprano soloist as "squally".
Acoustic engineer here. Measured it the other day on the Victoria line as Leq (average noise level) of 94dBA. That’s well above hearing damage.
Maximum was 103dBA.
I Love Rock n Roll! . I also love the sound of all trains and like falling asleep to authentic, occasionally screechy train sounds -so NYAHHHH!
I went on the Tube yesterday with friends as we were on a day trip to london (my first time going to london in 7 years) and it is interesting to learn what caused those loud noises we heard every so often on some of the tube lines. It was a really fun experience getting to ride the tube around Central London, and although it was only for a couple stops we got to go on so many different lines.
I've never really given the noise level on the underground much thought to be honest! It's just part of the experience - I actually like it!
I like it too, I also recorded some videos about particulars wheel flange noises in certain points, for example in the Central Line from Tottenham Court Road to Holborn near the crossover
when I think about the London Underground one of the first things that comes in my mind are the wheel flanges, I can't Imagine the tube without his loud noises 😂
Entertaining coverage of an interesting subject. When I was a boy and much of the system was populated with 1938 stock the trains were noisy but it was mostly thunderous low frequency with plenty of bumps and bangs but with much less of the ghastly screeching we now experience. Perhaps the wooden frames of the old stock had a part to play but the later “silver” stocks which followed still seemed less afflicted. Tube Mice ?
Outside of the long term hearing damage, the noise makes it hostile to those with sensitive hearing whether physilogical or psycological. For myself, I pretty much have to wear noise cancelling headphones to get around London.
It’s part of the ambience of travelling on the tube and I quite like it 😊
Re. "lubricating the rails" - this is done on the main line on very sharp curves, such as those at Borough Market Junction (between Charing Cross, Cannon Street, and London Bridge). The lubrication is not put on the rail head - where it would certainly cause wheel slip - but on the inner face of the outside rail on a curve, where the wheel flanges rub against it, causing that grinding, screeching noise. HTH
Noise is not the only hazard for Underground employees. Particulate matter in the air of the Underground is of similar quality to a coal mine.
My father, a train guard, and train driver, suffered from an illness similar to Silicosis wich lead to his early death.
The problem on curves is partly geometry and partly train design. The wheels on the outside of a curve have farther to travel than on the inside, so given that the wheels are solidly connected via axles something has to slide - hence metal to metal screeching!
Question - why can’t trains have free wheeling wheels like cars, and differentials on the driven wheels so they don’t have this intrinsic problem? I’m sure there must be a reason why trains always have solid axles? Is it just a cost thing?
Train wheels have a taper on them that acts as a differential (the diameter of the wheel is smaller on the edge of the wheel when compared to the diameter at the flange root. There is also the squeal caused by the flange rubbing against the side of the rail.
As for wheelset design, it would be very difficult to produce something that would improve the situation without impacting on reliability and cost. Improvements have been made by better bogie design, it will be interesting to see how well the new 24TS performs on the Piccadilly Line.
@@johnfry1011 Yes I’d forgotten about the taper. I guess that can ameliorate a bit unless the radius of the curve is too tight, in which case the outside wheel gets pushed against the flange == squeeeaaak!
Also, the small diameter of the tube tunnels concentrates the noise. You may notice the noise is quieter in the larger tunnels of the Circle line.
It was certainly surprising moving here from Japan. Never heard anything like the noise from the underground there.
I measured the screeching noise on the Jubilee Line, and it tops out at 100dB. I approached TfL for comment and they said this was caused by roughness on the top surface of the rails, which developed over time. The plan was to smooth out the rails twice a year, but this only provided a short term solution. Also there was no legal limit for noise on the tube. - Of course they apologised for the discomfort, but considering there is also limit for the temperature down there, it’s quite the lawless place 😂
TfL has a general duty of care towards its passengers, and that includes not subjecting them to overly loud sounds. There is a fair amount of case law which supports my assertion.
I feel a horror film coming on.....mind the doors.
@@hb1338unfortunately, they don’t seem too bothered about duty of care. They have been getting away with excessive heat, excessive noise, and reduced staffing (for safety) for years.
Hopefully some day that will change, but that won’t be without a fight.
@@ianhills8980 or Mind the Gap, that could be said quite chillingly!
Before any problem can be sorted, TfL needs to acknowledge it first. It seems like they fail in that department.
A few years ago I had a commute that involved getting the Northern Line to Morden. There was one one area, I think near South Wimbledon, which made a really horrible noise. You could spot regular passengers as they put their hands over their ears when we left the station as they knew it was about to start. I complained to TfL and was told it was special track to reduce noise and vibration on the surface. A few weeks ago I had to go to Morden and the horrible noise had gone! Hurray!
I suppose the deep tube is an echo chamber, after all, it's enclosed with the sound having nowhere in particular to go. To be totally fair, when I've visited London, and ridden the deep tube, I have found the noise more comforting than irritating, if the Underground was eerily quiet, I'd be spooked!
Live in London and you’ll feel completely differently about that
Bathroom tiles don’t help.
And they also deafen us with their constant high volume announcements!
I regularly get notifications on my watch telling me that I am in loud environment when travelling on the tube. Says it all really.
There's a certain section of the Central Line - between Liverpool Street and Mile End, as I recall, that is *particularly* noisy.
Also on the tube. Because alot of the lines are ATO trains run at exactly the same speed at very regular intervals which leads to track ware in the same parts, which is why the jubilee line extension and Victoria line near Oxford circus is so loud its fast and frequent. This leads to the wheels vibrating more thus creating alot more noise, overtime
Interesting that you mentioned lubrication. I used to stay with my nephew in the old Port Authority building in Melbourne, below which was a very tight tram curve. The trams made an awful screeching noise going round it - but only on dry days. In the rain, they were blissfully quiet.
You get some insane noise when traveling between Canary Wharf and North Grenwich
I love the noise, makes me feel like we're warping through the city xD
They say the tube is loud but it's nothing compared to the brakes of the old pacers that used to run around up here in the north hehe.
Even then theres no escape from the screeching no matter what train your on.
It's true, it can be... It's annoying for the vast majority of people, I just love it! Here in Argentina we have some nice tight curves in a couple of lines, they are wonderful, the metal of the wheels tugging against the rails, a unique sound. What I can find very annoying is the excessive squealing of the brakes when entering the stations, but I know that it is due to a matter of maintenance and wear, although they are mostly new cars... Rare.
JAGO!! You are completely right about the train sounds being preferable! I would MUCH prefer a long journey on the 1996 stock then to attend some horrid rock concert!
One time, I worked on a Saturday when Wales were playing at Twickenham. I still remember the singing. Halfway up the escalator I could hear 'sospan fach' from the platform. It was louder than the arriving train.
For some odd reason I like hearing these track sounds.
Jago, a perfect example of a loud track which is very local to you is between Tooting Broadway and Tooting Bec. Fortunately or unfortunately I have to ride this section everyday, but usually the noise wakes me up as I travel to school.
Love the videos, keep it up!
I picked up a lot of good vibrations and you have given me excitations from this video, Jago.🥰💚🌱
I'm not from London, but when I visited, I had to take the section of Jubilee between Canary Warf and Canada Water pretty frequently, and its ear-deafening. It was honestly surprising given that its one of the newer sections of Tube.
As an old codger approaching 65 I can honestly state that noise wasn’t such a big issue when I was a young commuter. We didn’t have mobile devices back then so perhaps they’re making it noisier so that people wearing earphones can still hear and appreciate the noise.
You are only a young lad.
Old codger at 65? As someone who is...older, let me just say that I dream of being 65 again.
The 1938 stock seems to run less noisy, I think the wood and the sprung seats absorbed at lot of noise
@@jerribee1Agreed! 65 is not 'old' nowadays! Most of the rock bands I go to see live are now 70 plus years of age!!
@@highpath4776 They haven't run 1938 stock on the underground for years surely?
So, the train isn't in a fixed position on the tracks. It's sitting in an equilibrium position where by the forces tend to act on it to keep it in what looks like a fixed position. Needless to say, on corners like this, a force is applied to push the train towards the outside of the curve. This force can overcome part of that equilibrium to an extent. But then the train settles back into position. So you get this wobble between the natural stationary position, and the slight tilt to one side on the corner. This causes the train to shift and metal on metal rubbing is the sound you are hearing.
The problem is, at the time they built the tunnels, they didn't know or care about a lot of this, so with ground rail, you can have the rails camber around a tight corner, where the track isn't on a perfectly flat ground. But, you cannot do this with the tunnels, unless you want to redesign them. The ground is flat, and there isn't any way to fix this, other then replacing that second of tunnel.
Honestly, given pretty much every commuter seems to have a pair of noise-cancelling headphones these days, this feels like one of these issues that has largely solved itself, at least for those who would find it most annoying!
I'm not sure how much there is to talk about on the subject, but I would love the video where your outro starts "I hope you enjoyed this riveting tale ..."
This video reminded me of the bit in The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time where he compares the sound of an approaching Central Line train to 'people fighting with swords'.
As others have pointed out there are bits of the DLR and Tram systems that have noise too. I think Platform 2 and16 approaches at Clapham Junction are pretty noisy from the check rails on the curves
when i visited London again in 2022 i did not expect it, i did not remember the sound being that bad so glad i always carry my loop earplugs and noise canceling earbuds really helped
I went to Heathrow on the Piccadilly line yesterday and f--k me one part was so noisy that even listening to music at full volume on headphone sit was drowned out by the screeching
Part vof the cause may be that the tube uses a much harder grade of steel for wheel tyres and rails than surface lines. I recall reading years ago that when the Isle of Wight line was electrified and '38 stock was shipped over, the existing rails began to wear very rapidly, and small heaps of swarf and steel dust began to appear around curves and pointwork. IIRC, a lot of re-railing was needed, using rail rolled for LT.
I watched this video when it was published, and commented that in all the many, many years that I have used the tube that I had not noticed how noisy it was. I used the tube today. Now that I am aware of the noise, I found the noise most annoying. Thank you Jago - not! 2:04