Is the M1911A1 Single stack pistol in .45ACP, still a practical fighting handgun?
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- Опубліковано 5 кві 2024
- My thoughts on why M1911s are currently getting a bad rap. Here I talk about reliability, magazine capacity, along with a little history with its use with Special Forces, and why it was so popular up until the middle 2000s.
M1911s during GWOT with SF: • Post 911 History of M1...
Multitasker twist: multitaskertools.com/ - Наука та технологія
no one cares about splits ..your splits does not matter..thats all game playing b/s ..your just a flat range gamer
Yep that's me all gamer!
Katana, that's the stand you're going to take, huh? Well, it's good to know we found the the real flat range gamer.
Btw it's "you're" not your, idiot.
Splits don't matter? So when you shoot a bill drill do you not care about time? Keeping track of your times plus hits is one of the best ways for you to improve your shooting. So do you just not care how well you shoot? You just out there shooting one shot a second thinking you are doing well because they are all alphas?
Pin of shame for the guy that shoots slow fire rimfire.
@@ModernTacticalShootingwe gamers are filled with non-gay pride to have you in our gamers club 🎉
2011's becoming extremely popular will make the "1911-like" relevant again. Theres just something special about that grip angle, trigger, and design. We truly have come full circle.
The faithful few always knew. ALL HAIL BROWNING!!
Most pistols share that grip angle. That isn’t what’s special about the 1911. It’s more in the grip itself. It just fits most hands extremely well, and can be easily customized for larger hands. But the 1911 wasn’t so loved when it was issued in military ranks. Totally different guns then than what we have today. Much different.
Completely agree. I’m a 1911 guy but my competition gun is a 2011, and it is 100% reliable. I would trust it as a carry gun, don’t see why it couldn’t work as a service gun. They are actually becoming quite common in law enforcement too.
@@roaringsteelmedia Got news for you: striker fire pistols are here to stay. First, they cost a hell of a lot less. They are easier to train to use. They’re inherently more reliable and far easier to maintain, and they work under harsh conditions much better than anything Staccato makes. The 2011 will have a following like the 1911: dedicated, but small.
@@oleboy7615what about them is inherently more reliable?
Since I am sitting here with five 1911 pistols within arms reach I guess I have to say the 1911 is still a stud. I enjoyed your discussion.
It definitely hasn't stopped looking cooler than most other handguns
@@greatBLT Or feeling better in hand
American steel
My 1911A1 is my favorite winter carry weapon.
Yes but how do you quintuple wield?
Also my g-19x also holds almost 1/2 as much ammo as all of 5 1911s combined ...and I can shoot it with only two hands ;-)
I once took a two day shooting class with a Glock 19 is the only real gun instructor who has since passed (and it’s not even the guy you thinking about )and he mocked me openly for bringing a Colt officer’s model. He basically made it clear that the gun would not be able to complete the course -of course because karma is a thing it completed the class perfectly-more karmic was the fact that his Glock 19 loaner gun actually broke, while the lone female student was shooting it. Of course that Glock 19 probably had 35,000 rounds on it and had never been cleaned and of course I just re-sprung my gun and brought light 230 grain loads but it was still funny!
He was a fantastic teacher, but that was just a fun story
Free rebuilds is what GSSF is good for. Itd be nice if other manufacturers did a similar basic PR event.
I ran my rock island government 45 in a similar class. I ran Wilson 10 rounders to keep up but the gun did just fine. I only had 1 issue and it was that the gun was very hot and actually melted a cheap holster I was using lol
Sounds like a fishing story
@@HWG-wm8ld tis’ True!
John M. Browning knew what he was doing. Itll go down in history next to Sam Colts revolver
An interesting point. The guy running Sig today is the guy who ran Kimber into the ground back in the early 2000s.
I lived in Long Beach, Kalifornia from 2019-2022, and I know the LBPD carried 1911's. I saw a few 1911's down range in Afghanistan as well. I used a 1911 in my home defense rotation as well. The first gun I qualified on in the military was the 1911 as well.
Team 3 I suppose. Got a family member down there.
My first working party after boot camp was at the base armory crating up all of the 1911s and uncrating that Beretta abomination. I was neither fan nor detractor of the 1911 at the time. I grew up with revolvers and semi auto pistols weren't even on my radar. I did fam fire a 1911 in boot camp. It wasn't until after I qualified with the M9 that auto loaders gained my attention. I was issued a 1911 during my tour in Okinawa. It was then that I discovered the greatness that is the 1911.
Long Beach PD? Yeah, those guys know what they are doing…
California doesn’t have a k in it.
Jeff you got your 1911 from the intro the year I was born! Happy 26th bday to that 1911 and I.
Mines 12th next week….dropped the gavel on the vortex 22x lht for my carbon waypoint as they got promos now and got a decent deal on it…lightest hpvo I know of
Ain’t lighter than iron sights, which is all you’ll ever need unless you are a hunter of game.
@@HWG-wm8ld that’s what we’re talkin hoss….i hike some pretty gnarly stuff and shoot from ridge line to ridgeline 🫡
@@HWG-wm8ldI RUN AIMPOINT 68 ON MY .45 BARB GOT ME FOR MY 65TH,,, I HAVE MACULAR DEGENERATION FROM CRANKING MY HOG,,, HABNT USED IRONS SINCE SINCE BASIC IN 68. SEMPOR FI
Still edc my Les Baer premier II. It’s perfectly reliable and extremely accurate. I carry with a Wilson combat 8 round in the gun and two 10 round mags in a mag carrier. Plus…. I still think 45 is gods caliber.
Good video.
I have one of those. Also have a Stinger. I'm not really a 1911 fan but both of those are staying with me. I've had a couple of early Kimbers. Those were good and reliable but the Les Baers are much nicer. The Premier II was used when I got it so I wasn't aware of what to expect when I got the Stinger which was NIB. Could barely open the slide on that thing.
@@jodylivengood4061 yes, they are made to very tight tolerances. But they are still very reliable, tho I don’t roll them through the mud or fill them with sand. They are more than reliable enough for edc in these normal times. Plus, I can hit A zone at 50 yards no problem with it. I can do that with my FN 509 with a red dot but not as quickly.
And you caught a 15lb large mouth on the moon.
@@HWG-wm8ld it isn’t too hard for people that practice goob. Many people can do far better than that.
Yeah I've never had a malfunction with either my early Kimbers or my Les Baers. I've only tried 230 FMJ, Remington 185gr +p Golden Saber, and Federal 230gr Hydrashock and used Wilson Combat mags in all of them. My first 1911 was a Springfield Loaded model. I tried Corbon ammo in that gun and nothing but problems. I never bothered with truncated ammo again with 1911's. It was a learning experience. Corbon in my Beretta 92, good stuff, 1911 not so much. Thing I like about the Les Baer Premier II is that it's blued and has the fine slide serrations. Stinger is also blued but I would prefer the stainless Monolith version. Both were impulse buys and didn't set out for something particular like most higher end 1911 customers do. I remember being a little dissatisfied with the Premier II over the adj rear sight. I always liked the Custom Carry. But after rhe Stinger I really started to appreciate the adj rear sight. Like I say not being a 1911 guy I've had pretty good experiences with them. There are a lot of myths about them. Some underestimating and some over. The recoil, especially on a 5" is really quite tame. I have a friend who was scared to fire it because of all he heard about that. This guy carried and frequently shot a S&W 65 3" loaded with 158gr ammo. It was pretty laughable. I fired off two cylinders of that gun and I just had enough. 158 out of a 6" is about what I'm good with. I've shot 10mm 1911's with the good stuff and even then never got that painful slap in the web of my hand that some revolver/ammo combinations will give you. Like I said in another comment, 1911"s are like MP5's. They're stupid until you shoot them. I also don't think the lower ammo capacity is a issue if you got a long gun that is not lacking in that department. I've also had two other .45's. A Sig P220 and S&W 4506. Both awesome but they did not have that first shot right where I wanted it that any 1911 I've had. DA/SA is what I prefer but there is no denying that 1911 trigger goodness.
I think the $400 rock island and tisas 1911 have brought back and saved the 1911. Before it took $1,000 to get a 1911 that actually worked. Now a standard cheap RIA seems to run pretty dang well. I picked up a cheap rock island 1911 5 years ago, kinda use it as a mess around gun... i had always heard terrible things about how unreliable 1911s were so i didnt expect much. I took it to the range for the first time and it hasnt stopped since... i have run good full power ball, cheap russian steel cased ball, cheap hollowpoints, expensive hollowpoints, wilson mags, mecgar mags, CM power 10s, those cheap $8 korean mags, no name usgi $9.99 mags from cdnn... and it loves them all. I polished the feed ramp to help it feed hollowpoints and did some other work on it because i wasnt afraid to ruin the gun and now its slick as butter. i carry a G19 or 26 but i do keep the 1911 as a night stand gun. Now, would i choose a cheap 1911 as my go to war/wrol pistol? probrably not. But it can still absolutely fill the self defense role. I enjoy shooting this 1911 more than any other gun and its so so easy to shoot. Its beaten and bruised and the finish has long worn off of the grips and the holster has worn the parkerazation on the slide and its not pretty at all.... but it keeps chugging along. Ive gotten more enjoyment and rangetime with this dollar for dollar than any of my glocks or other guns.if your looking for an affordable 1911 but your worried about being made fun of by the tactical elite deuschbags becuase they dont think cheap 1911s are cool... just buy one and try it. Rock island or tisas would be my suggestion. Just the standard old usgi seems to be the best and most reliable.
Love Rock Island 10mm double stack 1911
I definitely want the cheapest made products….
@@HWG-wm8ldit's a gun. Just because you like paying thousands extra so you can have a name on your gun tells me that you're just in a dick measuring contest. I have a $400 girsan 1911 that has more steel than a colt and will outrun any pistol you own. go complain about gas prices while you spend $3,500 for a gun lmao. even John browning would think you're an idiot for worrying about the price of a gun instead of how it's actually made.
Tisas and RIA are the same or higher quality as Springfield and the like. They're only cheaper because they're not made in the US and you're not paying for a name.
@@ChineseChicken1 I have a few great tisas 1911's and a rock island that's good. I just got a girsan untouchable 45 and it is amazing how good of a shooter it is. 1,000 in 2 days and not a single failure to feed or eject. So far this girsan is really great.
ALL good points. I bought my first 1911 in 1978 at 17, trained under and then instructed with Colonel Cooper at Whittington and Gunsite, and am still very much a 1911 guy for the reasons you mentioned. In addition, you can get an OUTSTANDING crisp/light trigger on the 1911 due to its design and the fact you have the thumb safety to help guard against an ND with a super light trigger. Most of my students use polymer striker-fired guns, and I shoot them a lot as well, but I am seeing more 2011-type pistols coming in. It is important to remember that within reason it is the man, not the gun, that wins the fight. DVC
Attended many schools during this period--Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, Chapman Academy, Mid-South, etc.--always brought Les Baer 1911s. No problems. Metalform or LesBaer mags.
Broke hammer hooks at TR class in Alvarado, TX. Les Baer TR variant.
Used Milt Sparks#60TK or #55BN or Bruce Nelson #1. Both in horsehide.
Had an Alessi too. Used it once IIRC.
Carry a BerettaP PX4 9mm Storm (LTT) now. 1911s in safe now, lol.
The timing of this video is perfect since I’m starting to get into 1911s.
Bro… stop. It’s a rabbit hole unto itself! Costly, too.
I’m glad I’m over it. 😅
@@WDLC1911 What he Said ^
My two Sig 1911’s with the long external extractor has been flawless as well. 😊 thanks for the videos
Excellent breakdown Jeff, always interesting.
The 1911 will always have a place. I’m a millennial and I grew up hearing about the legendary 45 automatic that my grandparents and parents used in the Military. When I got my pistol permit, the first pistol I bought was a Springfield 1911. I’ve never carried anything else. A 5 inch 45 Milspec pistol is the best way to start. The 1911 is a reliable weapon if you stick to John Moses Browning’s design. No need for Bull barrels, external extractors, full length guide rods. Keep it simple
That’s the dumbest saying people constantly repeat. The weapon used the least won the wars? The troops won the wars. It’s been used in every war since it’s inception.
@@HWG-wm8ld Nobody actually believes the M1911 won any wars. The 45 was a reliable and useful weapon on the battlefield with Americans for a long time. When it was replaced, many people were disappointed and hyped up the 1911 over the M9 as some kind of super pistol. It’s all talk
@@christophermead9800 They brought out the M9 so that all the little girl and soy boy soldiers could qualify.
@@morbward8281 So all the guys in SF running G19s and now Sig 320s from the mid 2000s are all soy b.c they chose to use a objectively better defensive handgun then the 1911 despite having access to them?
I had a kimber with the alloy frame. It ran really well. I really appreciate your channel man. I think the 1911 is still a good weapon for self defense. I don't believe it'll ever be outdated
I'm a 1911 guy. I have several full customs. A genius design, and marvel of manufacturing. That said, I carry an M&P Competitor for work. I love 1911s and Glocks, and I have full appreciation for what each is and is not.
Balanced rational thinking A++
Great video! I love my Springfield custom 1911A1 I have carried it for a good 15 years, in a Galco IWB holster.
Another banger of a video! Keep 'em coming Sir!
Thank you
Thank you for your video- it was very instructional and educational!
The new Turkish 1911s are made well enough and very affordable to get started with.
I think that you did an Outstanding Job Addressing the the Ol 45 in your first Video and yet again in this one. The Decades that I carried my milspec ( literally it was parkerized, plastic grips and GI sights) I never felt uncomfortable in CC. 👍👍
Thank you
I have 2 10s and a 4” 9mil alloy frame 1911 and just the history,feel, and how much influence they had growin up in 80s I can’t hardly walk out without mine….specialist…6”trp rmr…and sa emp ccc 4”:..
That intro video would give Ken Hackathorn a heart attack 😁
Why so he has something against smooth reloads?? 😃
@@ModernTacticalShootinghe had this one video where he was shittin a brick about dropping a slide on an empty chamber. Yet he also said red dots and weapon lights were "stupid gadgets" basically king fud stuff 😂😂😂
@@Jack-M1113 I understand how fuddish it sounds to not like WMLs but Paul Howe has a great video about using weapon lights in a civilian setting. For red dots its mostly training where these men are concerned with.
@@ASqdrnDA yeah why would you want to blind your opponent to give you extra time to process and make a decision especially in a civilian setting where that sort of thing counts most? Ugh so dumb right? You cant just carry a handheld light also for searching safely I mean that would be crazy!
@@Jack-M1113 That's the point, carry both.
New to your channel, and just watched your other 1911 vid. Carried a Remington Rand as a USAF ALO with the 101st at Ft Campbell and Desert Storm in 90-91. Wish I could have snagged that one! I have my original 1982 Colt series 70. Was problematic until I put a new Browning match barrel and bushing in it. Where it malfunctioned every couple hundred rounds with the original Colt barrel, now it runs flawlessly. My favorite is my Les Bear. It’s tight, but drives tacks, and after break in of 300-500 rounds never gives any problem. have an Sig as well, and a Kimber. The Kimber is a commander size, and it does malfunction once in a while, enough to not trust it to carry. the Sig is flawless as well.
My Baer Thunder Ranch SPECIAL has well over 40k of my reloads through it.I don't remember even one hiccup.
Sure
I bought my first Kimber back 2004 and it had that Glock style extractor as well. I sold it to a friend because I felt it just didn’t run right. Several years later I picked up the exact same model with the Glock extractor, sent it into Kimber for extraction issues. They replaced the slide with an internal traditional extractor. Ran thousands of rounds through it and is still one of my favorites. Don’t run it as much as I did 5 years ago due to ammo cost now.
One thing that I think you overlooked when it came to reliability is the massive aftermarket/accessories. There were/are lots of companies putting out inferior magazines which often had problem, people trying to change out parts like triggers, firing pins, extractors and even barrels when those parts have to be custom fit. Plus the sheer number of manufacturers (many of those in 3rd world or 2nd world countries) of 1911s ended up with huge differences in quality control.
Its also what's called "tolerance stacking" a good 1911 needs to be hand fitted apparently.
My brand New Kimber Classic Custom Target choked a lot... on the factory mag it was almost useless... with Wilson combat 8rnd mags its was still not great... Even after sending it back to the factory...
I have a Argentine Sistema 1927 (a early 20th century licensed Copy of the 1911) that is pretty reliable but its literally a 100 year old handgun with 100 year old ergonomics and mag capacity... Its a nice collectors item and a cool example of the 1911 but i would never carry it and would only fight with it as a last resort.
Obsolescent? Yes.
Still usable? Also yes.
In other words, old but gold.
Obsolescent? That's just silly.
I’ve heard this argument a decent amount, and while it makes sense to the casual observer, and it is good for generating discussion, I have to disagree, respectfully, in spirit.
There is nothing “obsolescent” about the 1911, at least in the way that this word is defined. A perfect example of obsolescence would be an 1873 colt single action army. The action is outdated, and you would be hard pressed to find someone suggesting the gun for anything more than target shooting, but it still works, and an expert with the gun might be able to hold their own against incompetent adversaries armed with modern arms. The 1911, on the other hand, may be old, but nothing about the action or the gun itself is obsolescent, or obsolete. Just about the only things modern guns do better than a quality 1911 is cost, and capacity, and capacity probably means a hell of a lot less than what people think it does. Everything else is done better by a quality 1911.
Great ergonomics
Natural point of aim
The best trigger in the game
Very shootable
Reliable
Very slim
Completely customizable
Controlled feed mechanism
Almost redundantly safe
American heritage
45 is a hell of a round
It’s not just a gun, it’s a weapon that harkens back to when warriors would seek out the best smith to craft their own individual sword to wield in battle. It brings a tear to my eye.
It's better then a sharp stick.
@@arch3088 Obsolescent and Obsolete are not the same thing,
The 1911 is Obsolescent... In a similar way to the lever gun.. Neither will ever be fully Obsolete (as long as you can still get ammo/reloading components for them)
A lever gun like a 1911 is still a viable way to provide an acceptable level of defensive firepower...
A modern Hi-cap pistol like the g-17/19 and an AR platform rifle are "better" and will provide more firepower , better ergonomics etc,.
@@grumpycat5991 I am well aware of the definitions. I stand by my remark.
Man, this couldn’t be better timed. I run a G45 on my belt, but was getting bored so I literally this week set up a belt with a Colt 1911C (Series 70 Gov’t) and am really looking forward to training with it over the next few months.
Might also consider a shoulder holster. Less time spent pulling your pants up, lol.
@@litsci4690 It’s a battle belt set up so not a concern. It’s not for carry. It’s purely for my enjoyment on the training range.
@@w.w.9047 Gotchya.
Dude didn’t get it.
@@litsci4690The falling down
pants bit is the hip thing now.
My 1911 experience is limited to my military time in the 80s, but I have become a 45 auto "fanboy" over the years. I edc a S&W Shield 45. It's very accurate, and packs a solid punch.
Interesting video. Your experience is quite invaluable and interesting.
Personally, I like the 1911. That was the first handgun I fired. I was 10 years old and could reliably hit a 3oz Dixie cup nailed to a tree at seven yards. The gun was with a WWII issue 1911A1. This was at an old pig farm my father's best friend owned. Most fun you can have with your pants on. I do have lots of other guns as well. I limit myself to 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP in semi-autos. For hunting I use a S&W 629 Classic in .44 Rem. Mag. I have taken a lot of deer with that gun. Love that gun. I have striker fire, TDA and SA semi-autos and have more of the same in my plan/wish list spreadsheet (I am always updating it). I still find the 1911 trigger the best in the business.
I used to get a lot of after-action reports from the GWT. I recall one where two operators entered a cave. One had a 1911 and one a 9mm (I forget which gun). Both were experienced shooters, so I am assuming shot placement was not an issue. The .45 ACP round took one shot. The 9mm multiple shots. Just saying.
Just one more thing. The number of new and interesting 1911s coming out now shows the pace has not slackened and the popularity of the 1911 has not waned.
Awesome content as always!
Appreciate it!
Thank you
Brought back old memories :D I was a medic in RVN who sometimes carried a 1911 . I don't remember what brand it was , and had never fired one before I arrived . We took it to the red line so I could learn how it operated . That thing rattled and shook , but went bang every time I pulled the trigger . I tried cleaning it a couple of times with the guys ( R ) I was with . I gave up and any time we came in and " they " cleaned weapons . They cleaned it for me :D I normally had other shit to do when we were in , so it worked out well . I did clean my Car or 16 myself though . I have owned many 1911's since I came home , and I did have a SS K- Classic until CPL's became available here in 03 . I traded it for my beloved Colt Defender that I carry to this day , most times . I bought a Tisas 1911 A1 2 yrs ago . Other than a Top Flight one I have . This $300 one is every bit as good , and better than some I have owned . 1911 ATW for this old guy .. doc 68-71
Man we literally just filmed content on this topic and def referenced you!
My two cents. I have carried a 1911 pattern pistol on either a personal or professional basis since 1979, very nearly every day of my life. While I have been required to carry a number of other platforms (Glock, Barretta, Sig, HK, etc.), I still fall back to the old slab-sides. As a former Instructor, I taught people to learn their tool and become proficient with it. But may fav is still my 5" 1911 with 2 ten round spares and I have NEVER felt undergunned.
1911 pattern? Just write 1911, we know what it is.
@@HWG-wm8ld What about Star or Llama, others? They are NOT 1911's yet are that pattern. I was specific for a reason.
I think a 45 ACP 1911 is just relevant enough to still be carried. I have a Colt and a Springfield. Both are 45 Government 5 inch barrels. They’re rack-grade and they do rattle. Both have been reliable with Wilson Combat 8 round magazines. Both will feed modern hollow points like HSTs as long as you don’t get lazy with replacing recoil springs. I carry the Colt sometimes and I use both often at Carbine+Pistol matches.
"Just relevant enough to still be carried" i think is a fair assessment
Mmy question to this is "yeah but why"? I genuinely curious why so many 1911 folks are so die-hard.
Maybe if I had thousands of hours of training/experience on it then its probably not worth switching to a new "system" .. I get that... but I was a 1911 guy, I had hundreds of hours on them... I was "forced" to switch to a Glock in like '99- 2000 b/c my Kimber kept crapping out at a VERY expensive 3 day school and one of the trainers was like "here shoot this (a G-17) or go over there and watch". I never carried or trained with a 1911 again.
Im not crapping on 1911 ppl either i just genuinely don't get it, why do you want 'just relevant enough"?
In my mind the 1911 is the successor to the Colt SAO revolver. The development of the firearm just feels like you can sense the gears turning in John Browning’s head - something that is semi automatic and offers the same capacity or better with the expectation of the time of a crisp single action trigger in a platform that is easy to point shoot with one hand. He was working from the assumption that you had to find a way to cock the hammer automatically with each round fired, not reinventing the wheel with some new fire control mechanism.
To me, the 1911 is the oldest “old” gun that can still be employed in all the modern ways. There is just something cool about using this thing that isn’t all that far off from the Colt SAO as a carry gun in modern times. It’s a cowboy gun you can actually get away with using in a way that you couldn’t with that single action revolver. The fact that there guys out there like Mr. Gurwitch who are/were utilizing all the modern force multipliers on their main weapons but also carried this old cowboy gun is as their sidearm just adds to the cool factor.
In short it’s a whole lot of just mystique and flavor. I still carry a Glock with a light and a red dot 99% of the time.
Good content Jeff as always All American Hard Hitter In John Moses Browning I trust !
At 66 I am a fudd! In the early 80's I shot IPSC and the 1911 in .45 was the only game in town. Up until a couple years ago I ran a Les Baer Custom Carry as my EDC. I live in CA so magazine capacity is not really an issue since we are limited to 10 rounds. I started to carry a Glock 26 or a 19 only because I didn't want to risk having my LB confiscated if I had to use it.
Worth noting is that, for magazine-limited jurisdictions (usually at 10 rounds), an 8-round .45 will always be better than a 10-round 9mm, even with JHP. The lesson learned from the AWB era is "if you're going to be limited, go big." Also convenient for when you're often travelling in and out and around these jurisdictions for work, family, etc.
I'd still take the extra rounds, lower recoil and cheaper ammo of 9mm. Either way, the 1911 is a great choice for states with restricted capacity laws.
This is really the main reason I'd ever get and carry a 1911. I hope to never live in a dirty communist state like that, but my current job doesn't allow me to rule out the possibility.
The other reason is because of that montage Garand Thumb made with Johnny Cash as the soundtrack, and I think sweetheart grips are kinda neat.
You could always split the difference with a 10-round .38 Super. 10+1 in a flush fit magazine that still packs a formidable punch behind it.
@travelingspartan2035 I got news for you man, as much as I hate to say it gun control is coming to a city and state near you. Just a matter of when not if.
Highly disagree. 2 extra rounds is always going to trump what is a relatively minor leap in muzzle energy. Sure, .45 is bigger, but is it better? Most literature on the subject from a medical and surgical perspective indicates the performance between individual models of hollow points is more significant than 9mm vs 45 ACP.
I'll take the extra ammo, smaller gun, and lower recoil.
Keep in mind the 1911 achieves this 8 round capacity with a *full sized grip*
My CZ subcompact is 10+1, still has less recoil, and is significantly easier and more comfortable to conceal. The only real advantage the 1911 has is sight radius, and even then, I'd rather just carry a bigger CZ or 92.
Even with the ability to throw on attachments, the differences in effectiveness between all handguns introduced in the 20th and 21st centuries are very small. The big changes will come when we move on to something like the lasgun or plasma pistols that can attach sights that can view through walls.
Really enjoyed, love the 1911, thanks
Solid work. Thank you sir
Much appreciated
Another 1911 fanboi here. Back when I shot IPSC in the 1980s-90s I used my frankenstein 1911A1 in limited. I used 8 and 10 round Chip McCormick and Wilson mags. Don't recall ever having problems with that gun. I still have it in my carry rotation today, thou it is in need of another rebuild 9 has somewhere around 20 - 25 k rounds through it.
I agree with almost everthing you stated, especially companies pumping out junk back then. Not only were the lesser known companies putting out sub-par firearms but even the major players were dumping everything they could build. In my area around the turn of the century, no knowledgable shooter would touch a Kimber or a Colt. Many guys would build their own before buying. Nowadays it's different in that one can buy in almost any price range, from budget to botique. Also budget doesn't necessarily mean junk. Tisas has a great reputation among 1911 shooters even though it is very much a budget 1911. I have a Girsan Compact that started out okay but I knew II wouldn't be leaving it stock so it was a great start to build from.
Another point is about carrying. The 1911 is very much NOT a beginners firearm to EDC. I wouldn't advise a novice shooter to EDC a 1911. Much better for a novice to EDC a Glock or other striker fired firearm.
I daily carry a Kimber TLE II in .45 acp and have for years. In fact my back up 1911 I use in training is an identical Kimber TLE II so as a law abiding civilian, I feel adequately armed with my Kimbers. I have never had any reliability issues with either Kimber and have no plan to switch to any other carry gun. I use Wilson Combat magazines, Wolf Springs and Wilson Combat GI guide rods in my Kimbers without any issues. Good video discussion.
I really like this balanced presentation of the M1911. I’m 36 years old so I am not of the generation where this gun was the main fighting pistol when I started shooting, however I understand its merit and heritage. That trigger really is a thing of beauty! I’d love to see what you think of the Alpha Foxtrot 1911-S15.
Yup as a 'fighting handgun' definitely still practical. I would say though that it may not be the best choice for someone who is going very few rounds through the gun each year. That info you presented about the various 1911's using that different extractor is good info. I had heard in the last 10-15 years that Kimber's were spotty in quality at best (as reliable shooters) but didn't know the source of that reputation.
Watching any skilled competition shooter compete in single stack division will pretty much convince you that a 1911 is still a perfectly sufficient weapon. Its capacity is a disadvantage, but its weight, accuracy and single action trigger are all major contributors to its ability to effectively put rounds where your target wouldn’t want them. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not about to trade my Glock 34 for a 1911, but I wouldn’t feel under gunned if I had to.
Is it just me or is the original ejection port sexier than lowered and flared?
I came up 5-7 years later then you did and I drank the late 90's 1911 cool aid and listened to the FUDDS. I bought an Brand New low serial Kimber Custom Target (the 1st ones) soon after they came out (97'-98' ish). With Wilson Combat 8rnds its "sort of" worked... But it FTF'd all the time with the factory mag. I sent it back to Kimber and they "fixed it".
I took a 3 day class with it in the late '99-'00 and it choked a lot ... with FTFs AND now also FTEs, I finished the class with an instructors G-17. I sold it shortly after that class and bought a New HK USP-40 that ran perfectly but I was poor and it was AWB times and the super rare preban Hi-caps cost $100 +each. So I sold the USP, and bought my 1st Glock a Used PD trade-in Gen 1 17, 3 "U" Hicaps and like 20 boxes of 9mm and never looked back, I also had money left over for a new holster and gun belt .
That gun had MANY MANY htousands of rnds through it when I finally replaced it with a Gen3 . I now run a 19x and I think that is the gun I will die of old age with... telling the Kids how "Tupperware GMBH." made the only "real" combat handgun ever... b/c " Perfection"...
"Now take your SIG LEGO and get off my LAWN"
Remington Rand made a lot of of 1911 pistols my uncle had gotten one US Army and when he passed away i cleaned up the barrel was pitted up the magazine was in terrible shape i cleaned it up to and the pistol fed like it was new and i gave it back to his brother and i guess it is still running.
My primary sidearm shifts back and forth between my CZ 75B and my Springfield M1911 A1, with two reloads. That's backed up by a Taurus 327, also with two reloads. I'm supposing that I'm as prepared, at least in terms of handguns, as I can be without clanking when I walk.
And there's also the fact that this setup is something like the small weights that joggers carry to burn extra calories.
You should have seen 1SG Pievhouse when he got back to SOTF-C and some team guy had taken his 1911. It was verboten to ask him why he was carrying a G19 😂
The first handgun that I ever bought for myself when I was 22 was a 1943 Ithaca frame with a Colt post war replacement slide. I have no idea how many rounds I’ve put through it and no idea how many rounds it had before I bought it, but it’s been nothing but reliable for me. The narrow GI grip safety does tend to dig into my hand a bit and I suspect that the frame might be somewhat out of spec, so that one is mostly retired now, and I primarily EDC a G17. But I’ll probably pick up a new Springfield sometime soon, and that can get carried on the days when I’ve had enough of the plastic gun in the wimpy caliber.
Great vid! Off topic question, i was always wondering if the sig p228 m11 were used by you guys or it was in inventory but nobody wanted them or you guys never had them in the first place? Thanks!
They were carried by intel guys assigned to SF
@@ModernTacticalShootingthank you sir! Always appreciate the info
I have a 1944 Remington Rand from the CMP and it went 50 rounds flawless out of the box. I bought a beautiful Kimber 1911 had hammer drop issues right out of the box. Got rid of it I didn’t want to play the return games with them. I also have a $300 Tisas 9mm 1911 and its absolutely perfect. 😂
I shoot single stack uspsa. Right now I'm on the path to sectionals with my old remington r1 enhanced.
Damned right it's still a practical fighting handgun.
Would you consider doing a video like this about the M9? Talk about maintenance cycles, observed issues etc? Would love to hear about your experiences with it - good or bad
Thanks for your content
I plan to do one in couple months
At this point, my only 1911 is a cheap Rock Island .45 single-stack with a light rail. I have a little over 1000 rounds through it and have only shot one actual competition with it. I've started having malfunctions with it but they all seem to have been with Chip McCormick 10 rounders; maybe I need to stick to 8 rounders or Wilson mags? The 8 round Wilsons have been fine so far. I think that a bigger problem that tons of 1911 manufacturers is tons of 1911 magazine manufacturers. The mag that came with my Rock Island only lasted for a few loadings before the feed lips spread apart to the point where it'll launch all the ammo and the follower out if you try to load it! It's also kind of a turn-off to pay $50 for a mag when I've gotten used to Glock mags that are half that price.
I sometimes carry the Sig Sauer P938 9mm. Not sure if I qualify for a single stack 1911 carrier, but it’s smaller than my P365 and handles well.
How do you like that? I have a good bit of time on a P238 and liked it.
@@therogueflieger I personally like the P238 better. It feels like shooting a 22lr. The P938 has a bit more recoil. If Caliber is more important to you I would get it, but if precision is more important, I think the P238 is very nice under rapid fire. I haven’t found an easier recoiling pistol than the P238.
The P238 shoots much better than my Ruger LCP 2. The LCP jumps a lot.
I bought the 938 because of its likeness to a 1911. I carry it daily.
@@recondo886 Same. I always insist on having a single-action-only as my carry and options are very small for that when it comes to subcompacts
I love 1911s and theyre the only thing I'll carry for the most part and i help my friends with 1911 work and trouble shooting. I have multiple para ordnance double stacks and a springfield loaded gi hi cap 45 (not the prodigy) 1911. My paras all predate what was known as the para extra power extractor and thus dont have any extractor issues but i do have friends who have paras with the extra power extractor (this was introduced in the late 90s/early 2000s, you can tell if a para is an extra power extractor gun or not by if it has a big X in the logo on the left side of the slide or not) and theyve had issues which i was able to diagnose as an extractor problem each time. EGW makes a replacement conversion extractor for the extra power extractor para guns that doesnt have the extra spring that ive found in my experience is the same to yours that they work good for a while but wear out much faster than a conventional extractor could or would. That EGW extractor takes up the extra space in the extractor channel and lacks the extra spring and installing it has fixed the issue every time ive seen it pop up. In my opinion the para hi caps are great guns but may require a good base of 1911 user knowledge and experience and may have some quirks. I love single stack 1911s as well of course tho and i find the capacity arguments against them to be kind of null seeing as you can get 8rd flush fits and or carry a 10 rounder in the gun or as a back up or even a 15 rounder in the pocket as a back up which gives you pretty good capacity in my opinion. Along with them being so slim they still make for an excellent carry gun and even the double stacks i will say still have the thin 1911 slide so i find even they too benefit from it and carry well. I do enjoy the extra capacity with my double stacks tho and me being the younger guy i am and my dad having shot competitively when i was a kid theyre what i grew up with and know best which is prob the opposite to most people's relationship with the 1911 but i like what i like. Excellent video btw, love seeing more 1911 stuff and always love hearing about them from people who carried them in combat. Very unique perspective.
I don't know if I'm part of the tail end of the 1911 craze, but I bought mine in late 2010 when I came back from Iraq. They were still seen as legitimate fighting guns then, though I did get good-natured ribbing for my "old gun".
My first 1911 was a Kimber. It had the same problem with that extractor, and it almost soured my opinion on it. In my case the extractor was tuned too tightly. Bent it and now it works mostly fine.
No weapon is truly obsolete. I maintain that the last combat effective man on earth will probably have a Mauser and some kind of metal frame pistol. That said, the 1911 is still just a pistol and thus inherently imperfect. A firearm is a firearm. A bullet is a bullet.
It would be foolish to totally lionize or discount any form of metal means projection.
I shall enjoy my 1911 until it quits or I do. I also have a G19. I’m covered
Kore,...local company with a great product and employees. i have several now, in both cordura and leather .couldnt ask for a better belt capable of supporting an owb rig. even got my firefighter kid using one as his duty belt..good stuff.
I remember from your glock video that the green berets chose glocks because delta was using glocks, but around that time delta was looking at the HK45 and the double stack STI 2011. I don't know why they rejected the hk45, and as far as I know the only problem with the 2011s were the magazines, would the green berets adopt one of those too because of delta?
What killed HK, there dumb trigger guard mag release
@@ModernTacticalShooting That mag release is one of the many outstanding features of HK pistols. I edc HK USP 45s and that excellent mag release is one of the reasons that I replaced my 1911s for my primary edc.
From what I recall hearing (I think from Ian at Forgotten Weapons), Delta wanted a 2011 in .40 but couldn’t get it to run reliably, so they went to the Glock in .40.
@@Katana_Gryphon I think the problem with the magazine was that is was long and the cartridge was too short, I wonder if it would work if they made it in 45 acp or 10mm.
You guys need a clue.
I was at the range yesterday with a friend of mine who asked, why I still shoot a 1911 45. So I said the usual things that 1911 guy's say. He said sure but, it only holds 9rds and fires a big slow heavy bullet. First, how many times are you planning on missing and second, over 900fps for 230 hollow point is just fine. I said, if you think 900fps is do slow, walk out there 10yrds and you catch the m.f. when I pull the trigger.
Man, the rubes love this one.
Everybody who trains "plans on missing"...
Thats literally what training is for... to limit the missing or make missing the A zone a C zone hit in instead of a D zone hit.
If you didn't plan on missing (aka you never miss) you would never need to train and just be 360 headshot no scope man...
I plan on missing the perfect vital shot every shot i take so I train to get back on target and make my follow up shots as smooth/quick as possible and in the A zone, But I plan for only hitting the D or C zone.
Even when I hit the A zone I still "plan" on missing it, and to come back on target to "miss" again.
So I keep training ... its weird its like the more I "PLAN" on missing the less I miss.
11:00
the reason they went away from leaf spring extractor is because people like drop a round in the chamber, and release the slide.
the gun was designed to feed from the mag, and have the rim of the cartridge slide under the extractor,
just like a control round feed rifle.(mauser style)
You should pick up the new Springfield Armory TRP and let us know what you think since you're a OG 1911 guy. Would love to hear your opinion. 🤙
Sidenote: You're a solid team mate for choosing a 1911 because you're comfortable with it so the younger guys could run a Glock because that's what they were comfortable with. Says alot about ya character. Respect.
Back in the early 80's while in the military . I carried a 1911 A1 for 4 years. A Remington Rand and yes it rattle .But I had no problem earning a sharpshooter medal with that 1911. Then in the late 80's , I was issued a M9 and earned a expert medal with the M9. If I had a choice , I would choose a 1911A1 any day of the week.
Hell, I shot single stack at a USPSA match today, didn't even come in last
I have both books by Marshall and Sanow. Great reads for true gun fighting stories and the history of ammo development. Many 9mm ammo companies, I believe, are behind the promotion of the 9mm as the best round. I also believe that the bigger the hole=the faster the blood loss=the quicker the fight is stopped, hence I favor anything bigger than the 9mm. After all the 40 caliber revolvers used in the Civil War killed quite a few men especially by the cavalry soldiers.
Glock never dabbled in 1911s that's Photoshop 12:00
Absolutely it is still relevant. If you have good aim 7 or 8 shots is one to 3 more then a revolver. I still consider a revolver to be reliable and relevant.
Agree
S&W and Taurus makes an 8 round revolver in 357 mag that will chamber 9 different manufactured rounds that most of those rounds are still effective at stopping whatever the threat would be that exists.
I may be wrong here, I don’t know much. But it seems to me that the whole good aim argument is gonna fall on its face when someone is actually shooting back. From military to police I consistently hear the same thing “more ammo is better”. Look up Tim Gramins.
@@tyronejackson6593 More ammo is better... being able to reload "the more ammo contaner" fastes is more better. Revolvers fail at both, the 1911 fails at the former. Why ppl try to justify this in a tool used to defend your life baffles me.
I love revolvers and 1911's .. I trust my life to Modern self loading rifles and pistols with Hi cap detachable magazines...
Are those Ergo Rubber grips. I want those and they look like skateboard tape. Please let me know if your remember! Thanks and great video.
That are a hard rubber grip
I think the elephant in the room is the WEIGHT.
The sheer mass of the 1911 is its overwhelmingly relevant feature, it can soak up so much recoil in such a simplistic way yet at such a cost in its use as a sidearm. A sidearm is defined by how it is carried on the person, it being 46 ounces fully loaded is the real upper limit of how much you'd really want to have hanging on your hip and what do you get for this? 16 rounds? 18 rounds? No, 9 rounds.
This is like using a brick phone today and saying "hey, it still makes calls"... but... it's a brick.
I did go to Glock because of the weight for my edc. Having said that a quality belt and holster will help with the weight.
For my 2 cents, given I’m just a civilian who doesn’t have to carry anything else on me, simply having a thicker gun belt to make the weight stable more than allows the 1911 to be comfortable carrying, and the added weight absorbing recoil means the .45ACP out of a steel frame 1911 has about as much felt recoil to me as 9mm out of a polymer frame Glock.
Though I carry a double stack 1911, so I get 15+1 instead of 8+1, which does change the capacity argument a bit.
Milt Sparks
Yes, indeedy! When people started tinkering with the design to make it a 'match' pistol, reliability went out the door. It also took a while to make it reliable in 9mm and hi-capacity. I saw a comment a while back that USGI pistols were rebuilt with barrels from a different spec steel than the originals, and this caused accelerated wear.
When I fired an M1911A1 at Marine Corps OCS in '75, we were warned that the guns were so worn they might go full auto. Thankfully, I got a good one.
Yes the remington rands that went into service in early Gwot they were rebuilt using never issue old war stock parts. So they shot rather well
I remember seeing that l.a.p.d swat adopted the Kimber tle 2 in a gun magazine and I had to get one. I shot the barrel out and sold it.😢
These guys tell some serious stories
My 20 year old son carries a 1911 5 inch as his EDC. He seems quite happy with it.
Definitely agree with you that the M1911 sits somewhere in the middle of the Stud vs Fudd extremes.
A lot of the problem stems from inconsistent quality control from factory production 1911 manufacturers, who like you said, try to cut corners to deliver a product at a certain price point. That's part of the reason why I avoid Kimber's made in the 21st century because their QC seems to be like a rollercoaster once they ramped up to producing 1911's off a factory line instead of custom making them.
Cheaping out on magazines, not polishing feed ramps so JHP's cause FTF, and not properly tuning the extractor and causing FTE are the most common problems I've seen from factory grade 1911's. The most egregious are the manufacturers that produce a 1911 so tight that they recommend a "break in period" to get it to function reliably. To me that's not craftmanship, that's laziness and expecting the customer to blow money on ammo or a gunsmith to get the gun to work properly. It shouldn't be considered a difficult bar to meet for a duty/carry/self defense handgun to reliably feed JHP's right out of the box, but for some reason a lot of manufacturers of factory level 1911's still think its fine that you need to spend money on better mags, polish the feed ramp yourself, or even shoot a couple hundred rounds to "break it in" just to get that basic level of reliability.
If we're talking more of semi-custom and custom 1911's (ie Dan Wesson and up), then I think the 1911 still fits the bill for a fighting handgun, but you will be paying for that performance at that point.
I love the 1911. I joined the military in the '90s but my dad was on his unit's pistol team in the '80s where they shot 1911s. I also heard a lot of stories about ineffective 9mm ball ammo at the start of GWOT. I will have a .45 as my preferred weapon. Whether it is a 1911 or something else will depend on the situation. The only malfunction I have had was with my 1999 SA GI Spec. It was my fault. I ran a dry gun in the Colorado cold. I have not had any other issues.
It’s ineffectiveness in the GWOT…?just like they said about 556…? You listen to the inexperienced and repeat their nonsense.
@@HWG-wm8ld I can say from experience that the 5.56 moves way to fast and doesn't kill immediately. Not all units are SF. Second there were several stories of people being shot in the face with ball 9mm and not dying. Don't know you or your experience. Don't profess to know mine.
@@augustinegonzales4266 Jeff literally said in this video that he only knew of 1 .45ACP one shot stop.
AkA the are ppl who have been shot MANY times with everything from .22LR to .308 and lived.
That is why you shoot them more... until the go down. Also the Army has already adopted M1153 which is a 147gr. JHP +P+ ... Basically Win. Ranger T....(been available to LE and Civilians for like 20 years... and is A proven highly effective fight ender... they is now literally NO reason to rock a 1911 in combat even for the military.
@@grumpycat5991 I would still rather have a .45 ACP Glock 21 or FN FNX 45. I am surprised they are issuing JHP. Something must have changed.
@@augustinegonzales4266 I agee with that .. for the record I am "THE" guy that bought the .45 GAP Glock 37 (a .45 cal in a 9mm g17 sized frame) , trained and carried it i.. So I get it but the logistics issue of keeping .45 in inventory .. let alone .45 GAP would make it pretty much a o go.
I don't think the JHP is standard issues but rather a "special application round"... However the new "Ball Ammo" is a 115gr. +P(+ ish) FLAT tip FMJ.. which I would "guess" does a fair bit of expansion in meat.
Jeff,
What would be your current factory recommendations for a five inch 1911?
I think Springfield
With their track record for quality control on guns like the prodigy and EMP 4? Mim parts for the same price as a Dan Wesson, I disagree.
I have carried a Commander sized from Springfield for over a decade. Can't count how many rounds I've shot through it. EDC every day.
You should be counting rounds with a 1911, for maintenance reasons. Plenty of great guns have a bad rep due to their lack of maintenance the military personnel gave them.
The only close friend I have that saw allot of urban combat was trained on and carried an M9. When he discharged he got a 45ACP. He did not like the knock down power of the 9, for man nor beast. He did rate shotgun first. Me, just a civilian but been shooting a great condition bog standard M1911A1 (my Dad's) since the 70s. Never an issue, just treat it well, clean once in awhile. Now it is retired. My brother carries a Wilson Combat, it is pretty nice. Have a Springfield DS, but in most cases...like SS milspec 1911A1 the most. Make me carry a 9?, grab my CZ75, my range gun because of cheap ammo. The .45APC 230 hard ball is a great round.
Knock down power? You need a mortar for knockdown power, not some pistol.
18:06 current the hot buzz for 1911 are Tisas and Alchemy Weaponry.
The "classic" extractor also has to have a channel cut for it INTO the slide, its a Huge manufacturing hurdle. But as you state we see the result. Only ones that did a external extractor right that I am aware of is the Coonan who did a LOT of R&d for the .357magnum in a 1911, also another detail that came out of that was the Slide on the 1911 actually buckles on the ends. At least this is how to describe it, it flexes per say, so if its too tight at the ends of the slide...well its not likely going to work well. Also they started out as all hand fitted guns and I know some people saying the old 1911s from ww2 had their share of lemons too.
Jeff makes video, I like it. Simple as.
Always!
Any opinion on double stack 1911s/2011s?
In short...Great!
@@ModernTacticalShootingThanks! Keep up the great work!
@@ModernTacticalShooting RAD!
While I myself wouldn't be considered the target demographic of the likes of a classic 1911 (being late 20s), I had the chance to shoot one that belonged to my Gramps in the Philippines. It changed my perception of the kind of handgun I liked. While I'm older and certainly more aware of the quirks of the platform, I always felt that there's this classic appeal the over hundred year classic that somehow refuses to just go away. I'm a bit more open to the idea of various calibers and formats of 1911s and especially as 2011s are essentially the modern 1911. End of the day though, a classic single stack in .45 will always appeal to my love for tradition.
I hope we see things come full circle in time, and see a preference with larger pistol calibers again. Shot placement is key, but you cant really argue that 230 grain 45 is going to do more damage then a 9
But .50 BMG does more damage then a .45 so why don't you carry that?
Its not just a Bigger bullet= better equation.
Not gonna lie, 6 1911s in a boondock saints style vest with zome six zhooters sprinkled in has some serious bde ( big richard energy, iykyn)
Movie reference always for the win!
I'm hoping the Glock 1911 bit is just a very subtle troll
I have an... Odd , take on 1911s. I own three and love them. For 9mm, I'm picking a modern M9a3/a4 or a Glock 17 for duty carry. No one currently makes a solid double stack 1911 in 45, unfortunately. But I would not be afraid to carry a Para P14, but I would prefer a FN45 or a HK45/USP. I have a Ruger P90, and a Springfield XD. Neither are duty ready. My Halo 45 is the Sig 227.
Thank You For Sharing Your Thoughts. I Prefer To Carry The 1911’s And 2011’s. Les Baer Pistols Are Very Reliable !
My fudd variant is the P220 in 45 acp. I use a Safariland plastic holster. My street carry pistol is a gen 3 Glock 17. I started out with a smith model 19 in 357 mag. Im not sure what I am supposed to be carrying to not be considered a Fudd but I know the P220 is not in vogue.
The Sig P220SAO is an outstanding pistol. I love everything about them except for the cost and scarcity of the mags. While the P220 is an excellent gun, it doesn't do anything better than my 1911s for which I have more than 100 easily replaceable magazines.
EDCing a glock 17 has a neutral FUDD rating...
Not as Low as Carrying a 19 but the Gen 3 17 is pretty much the 0 on the the following scale:
(EDC'd New Hotness Before it was cool) -10-----------------0---------------------+10 (Has John Browning Body Pillow ... VERIFIED FUDD )
@@grumpycat5991 It is clear that neither of you know what a FUDD is. A FUDD is a hunter that supports gun control so long as his hunting rifles and shotguns are exempt.
@@Rif_Leman Still wrong... your def of Fudd id pretty FUDD
Fudd rating of the P220 is a bit high due to its Towering high bore axis.
The 320 is new hotness though and it also suffers from this affliction to a slightly less degree so... Maybe it cancels out???
Nothing better than a 1911!
Love ALL mine! I have Glock Sig Beretta, S&W and other polymer sidearms….no one beats the 1911 trigger!
Carry my Kimber Custom TLE 2 TFS in .45 and it’s flawless. Feels and shoots better than guns 3x its price. I carry and run Chips 10+1 Powermags and they’re great
there are many things to love about the 1911. That said, it’s never gonna be a Beretta 92.
I’m in my late 50s and had a dad who carried an M1911A1 in WW2. An older brother who carried one in the Vietnam era as a paratrooper. If we admire the generation before us, we look at what they depended on to survive with reverence.