Plus aside from Superpower (the move it can’t learn in SV unless you transfer), it has Trailblaze, Double Kick, Dig, Facade, Tera Blast and Bite, and only Trailblaze, Facade and Tera Blast are viable options but still not as groundbreaking unless you do Tera Normal.
Aerodactyl was truly cursed for the first two gens. Didn't get rock slide or any good flying moves. The instant it DID finally get rock slide in gen 3 it shot up to OU.
Flareon's lackluster move pool truly reached meme status when the "However, Flareon is the only fully evolved Fire type Pokémon that cannot learn Solar Beam" thing hit the field.
To be fair it isn't missing much, solar beam is a terrible move even in gens without a weather setter being on nearly every team. I especially don't recommend the move on ninetails in gen 5 as it invites in the other two weather setters freely since ttar is more than happy to eat a beam and ko back while politoed will just switch into it and then protect to force ninetails out
@@sablesalt It's a joke from the "Ariel Needs Legs" comic, where Eric is shown rambling about Pokemon trivia to Ariel, and he goes, apparently unprompted, "However, Flareon is the only fully evolved Fire type Pokémon that cannot learn Solar Beam." This apparently convinces Ariel that she needs to jump his bones.
I remember reading an entry from Serebii's Pokémon of the week/month things years ago, and I have never forgotten the all caps "GIVE IT FLARE BLITZ" written into Flareon's competitive viability section.
If anything I'd call this the Smeargle Theorem. That thing has miserable stats yet still finds niches for itself because it has access to nearly every move in the series.
Flareon is a great example of a pokemon left out to dry because of horrible move pool for it's stats. Physical fire type from generation 1 never had any good moves to use that attack stat and by the time it did get a physical fire stab it was fire fang a move with low base power that couldn't use the high attack stat to the fullest.
@@morphstarchangeling8024 But when it was finally given what it wanted it was still ass because guts fire types can't even use flame orb and flare blitz recoil makes it's longevity problems even worse (and yes it is hazard weak).
@Morphstar changeling the sad thing is, in gen 1 special was one stat so flareon actually had a decent option with flamethrower, and it had a physical stat to use moves like strength or other high powered normal moves. Then gen 2 happened, and flareon's special defense took all the special stat from Gen 1, and the special attack was left in the dust.
Lilligant has got to be one of the most promising grass type offensive mons, with acess to both sleep powder and quiver dance, and even own tempo to spam petal dance without regrets. But she just falls flat for the lack of coverage. She basically only learns grass and normal type offensive moves, and polen puff, wich is nice but not exactly the best coverage a grass type would want.
He did have a bland Pokémon choice and mentioned Grass types so Lilligant fits there. It’s an example of a Grass type that has limited to no non-STAB coverage which that type is notable for.
A relatively new Pokétuber named Zen Mode has a series about fixing weaker Pokémon. So far, he's only changed one 'mon's type, and has left all stats alone; instead, he focuses on evolution level, abilities, and moves. I would say updating the moves has been the most impactful so far, and is perhaps the greatest example of The Flareon Theorem out there.
The Skitty video has been his best so far. But that was less about how he changed Skitty, but moreso the playstyle of funneling everything through Assist.
I want to help bump this comment. Zen Mode's retoolings feel realistic and are based on character design: how I feel GameFreak itself makes decisions (at the best of times, anyway).
Something else about movepools not mentioned in this video is that, roughly, a bigger move pool means more viable sets, more viable sets means more unpredictability, and more unpredictability means it’s harder to counter something because you don’t know what set it’s running. For example- Lando-T can run offensive SD, band, scarf, explosion lead, bulky pivot with SR, and even a surprise specs set, and you have to at keep in mind this versatility when you run into it. If are not anticipating what set they are running and they catch you off guard, you can potentially lose the game right then and there. Half the battle is just discovering which set Lando-T is running, and that’s something only possible with its huge movepool of viable moves. As briefly mentioned in the Snorlax segment, even just the addition of one move can make a huge difference for what opponents might anticipate or team build for, regardless of if you are using that move or not; the addition of Slack Off to Snorlax would also be a buff to, say, a choice band set, because they also have to anticipate a belly drum set, 3 attack + slack off set, utility set, and curse set that are bolstered or even exist because of the addition of Slack Off
You know a theorem is true when the opposite extreme can be listed as an only weakness. In ORAS, Clefable was consistently S tier in OU. It just did everything. I distinctly remember it’s one weakness on smogon being “you can only bring 4 moves”
@@bulborb8756 I remember how Marshadow was like that. You wanted Rock Tomb for flying types, Ice Punch for Zygarde, but couldn't take both so you had to decide. Sure it wasn't as extreme as Clefable, but the issue was there.
You could also call it the Weavile theorem, since the utility and best attacking moves were taken away from Weavile, causing it to plummet to RU. Still has massive speed, but it's movepool still took a hit. Sincerely, a Weavile fan who is totally miffed it got nerfed
I always found Normal types interesting in this regard. By definition they cannot have supereffective STAB moves, so I believe they are compensated by receiving crazy dense movepools with many types available. This explains why Porygon and Snorlax could learn Thunderbolt in Gen 1, or why Cyclizar can learn Power Whip in Gen 9, because movepool variety makes up for the "eh" stab type. And while I haven't seen them use such movepools extensively so far, it does make for a neat surprise factor in terms of options. Hopefully this beneficial trait becomes more handy with time.
Gen 9 move dexit has really done a number on a couple of mons. Weavile losing Knock Off and Triple Axel sent it from S-tier OU to RU, Blissey and Chansey losing Toxic sent them down to RU as well, Slow twins losing Teleport and Scald also made them significantly worse. Landorus-Therian is gonna have a hard time now too after losing Defog, Knock Off, and Toxic (and to a lesser extent, Rock Polish).
Not to mention the recovery move PP nerf . . . The only notable defensive Pokemon I can think of that haven't been sent tumbling down the tiers due to these changes is Toxapex . . . which despite losing Scald _and_ Knock Off *_and_* half of Recover's PP still somehow manages to have enough tools to stick around in OU, and Slowking thanks to Chilly Reception and Bax (both still have Regenerator, which might explain this).
Lando is not as worse off as it still has its superb offensive sets like double dance and scarf. Plus lando in general gets nasty plot this gen so perhaps special lando t, as cope as it’ll be, will possibly be a thing moving forward.
Funny thing, the best way I could utilize Unfezant is with Super luck holding zoom lens. I could find no other way to utilize it, id just roll the dice with hypnosis and hope for the best. Hypnosis Night slash Sky Attack Roost
@@siegemonstrosity2383 sky attack is a 2-turn move, and those historically have never been useful in competitive unless with a power herb (or have ways to bypass the charge turn like how solar beam and solar blade can be used in 1 turn if the sun is up)
@@siegemonstrosity2383Sorry, but that set is just bad. I run slash, night slash, scope lens (it's fast enough for UU o below that zoom isn't too reliable), quick attack (Good when at low hp or facing a counter), and I think I ran brave bird for my flying move
The thing that will always bother me is how some electric moves like Zing Zap or Volt Tackle are basically just: "Put electricity all around yourself and charge the opponent" Yet these moves are still just signature moves for one or two mons. Same thing with Plasma Fists, it's basically Ion Deluge but as a punching move, if something like Electivire can learn Ion Deluge (I forgot if it can) while also having powerful fists, then it should also be able to learn Plasma Fists. Physical electric types really deserve some attention.
that is true since the best physical electric moves....all happen to be signature moves: volt tackle, fusion bolt, bolt strike, bolt beak, aura wheel, plasma fists, double shock, all moves with high power and are all signature moves, Zing Zap would be a good balanced move...but is still only on togedemaru and pincurchin. physical electric's have constantly had a rough life with being utterly unviable due to them having next to no options (compared to say physical water which have plenty of options: aqua cutter, razor shell, waterfall, liquidation and wave crash)
If it wasn't for Zing Zap's Japanese name ("Shocky-Shocky Prickly" or something like that, which implies only spiky mons can get it), they would've definitely distribute it to other mons. Volt Tackle I guess I can understand. It's Pikachu's signature move. But why can't they buff Wild Charge to be a slightly weaker version of Volt Tackle (instead of much worse like it is now)? Same with Plasma Fists: if they really want to keep it exclusive to Zeraora, why not make a new move that's just a slightly weaker version of Plasma Fists (let's say 85 base power), like they did with Shadow/Phantom Force? (also yes, Electavire could learn Ion Deluge before it got Dexit'd) I really hope they at least make Double Shock not exclusive to Pawmot in Gen 10.
The physical ghost types got a reliable STAB in Poltergeist last gen; Unless you’re like any of Aegislash, Mimikyu, Blacephalon, Dragapult, Basculegion or Annihilape (maybe Ceruledge too) where they’re already so good that GF fears giving any of them a 110BP STAB move, even if it’s 90% accurate and has no synergy with Knock Off
I’m loving these theorem videos FSG, and it’s so cool to see these theorems fleshed out that have been underlying concepts throughout all of your many “how good was:” videos
It's not just Flare Blitz. Flareon lacks SO MANY normal generic or fitting physical movepool options. I will list them: - does NOT get EQ; - does NOT get Rock Slide nor Stone Edge; - does NOT get Solar Beam, Grass Knot, or any other Grass-type coverage move that would wreck any of its weakness types, aside from Trailblaze... which is a 50-base power move. except if you happen to get a Grass-Tera Type Eevee/Flareon so it can use Tera Blast; - does NOT get CRUNCH even though it gets BITE?!; - NO Close Combat (to use as a suicide banded guts set); - NO Foul Play; - NO Iron Head OR Iron Tail (IT HAS A GIANT TAIL, WHY NOT?!); - NO Low Sweep; - No Lunge; - NO Play Rough; - LOST access to Superpower; - NO Zen Headbutt seriously, the more I looked into it the more depressed I got.
@@F1areon Body Slam was a TM in RGBY and was the standard issue move to practically every mon that can learn it (pretty much the entire Pokedex of Kanto). That's the reason why almost every Gen 1 mons can learn it by TR in gen 8.
I think a lot of Pokémon could be made infinitely better by a single addition to their move pool. Shell smash for kingler, slack off for snorlax, and recover for swampert are all good examples.
It's not every day you see someone admit that Flareon had some legitimately potential, but it says a lot that about Flareon when the maker of Renegade Platinum not only gave it Flare Blitz, but also Close Combat by level up. And they even re-scrambled its stats to look more like Leafeon's.
I'm picking flareon in my next renegade platinum nuzlocke thank you sir And if anyone mentions fantina ill use the patterz bibarel strategy And if I lose it was worth it
@@teriso1793 I mean, Renegade Platinum Flareon is still Infernape-but-worse, but I like the enthusiasm. ^^; I'd like to know how that Nuzlock turns out.
The funny thing is that being compared to Infernape is still not flattering given that by now Infernape has never had a generation where it has stayed on top at all of any singles or doubles tier.
@@iantaakalla8180 I think that's a bit harsh to Infernape. The mere fact that it held onto a niche in gen 4 OU should be a big achievement, and it's never been a bad Pokemon. Granted, offensive fire type Pokemon do have a lot to deal with.
I ran Flareon for a good while, it has problems, but its above average Sp. Defense and access to Guts let me surprise many people. Flare Blitz and Superpower let it hit super hard for one or two turns, and Facade hit whatever else and without drawbacks. I often ran Flame Charge with Toxic Orb or Quick Attack with Choice Band.
There needs to be a 90 BP 100 acc move for every type. One for physical and for special. Id love to have conkeldur have a move like that to replace stone edge. Iv lost so many gqmes due to its accuracy.
On one hand, both those types really desperately need options. On the other, I think movepool differences between types is part of what makes pokes unique. Just y'know, maybe not to such an extreme extent
I would also put Klingklang in this theorem. Good typing, amazing buffing move and reasonable attack power, but only learns steel/electric movies aside from Return.
@@yeet8036 It fits here too because it has the same issues as Flareon does. Learns more moves of the weaker stats than what it's actually strong in -Physical Attack-.
Another video idea is “The pachirisu theorem” where a pokemon can have success if it has a combination of unique traits that no other Pokémon can replicate.
Рік тому+173
If you are referring to that one VGC battle, it might as well be "Why popularity is not everything: The Spanish Inquisition Theorem"
In a specific situation as well, like a restricted format where only mons from the regional dex could be used. If there were more options, Pachirisu might not have been chosen.
I still call "One madlad player changes the metagame with a weird, niche pick" events across all games as "The Pachirisu Effect", and would love to see some variant of terminology be used.
There's a romhack called Energized Emerald where Flareon gets Contrary as an ability. With it and moves like Superpower, Overheat, and a new fire type Hammer Arm move, it's become a scary little beastie.
@@fabriciocastrovizzotto9106 fucken aye, bulk up rest rage fist annihilape can potentially sit in all game, but slap drain punch on as your fourth and no wonder it was banned.
or the mudsdale theorem. Since mudsdale has an awesome defensive ability, but is hampered by no access to healing. And in a rom hack where it gets slack off, it's an absolute monster
I would propose the Avalugg Theorem: Why Typing Matters. While a smaller theorem to be sure, you have to admit lots of Pokemon are let down by their typing even today because their typing doesn't support the Pokemon's niche. Avalugg is a prime example, having great defensive stats and decent moves for the role with Recover and Rapid Spin and the Hisuian Form also having entry hazards, but it has the worst defensive typing in the game especially the Hisuian Form. If Avalugg had Weavile-like stats of of being a sweeper with that typing it could be deadly but like real life glaciers during climate change Avalugg doesn't stand a chance as it is. On the opposite side of the coin consider how much the Fairy type revolutionized the game and even meh Pokemon became viable just by being a Fairy type.
I recently played HGSS again and used a Flareon on my team. I didn't have access to move tutors for better attacks so it was stuck with a really bad moveset, to the point where I taught it Strength just for more power
yeah cause in gen 4 flareon's only physical fire move is fire fang, it doesn't learn that move until level 43 in gen 4, honestly this eeveelution has had an extremely rough life with being the worst one (but it's debatable if he's still the worst or the 2nd worst after glaceon)
Would be great to see a theorum covering x4 weakness mons and why it’s either not the end of the world or how having a combination of types that can result in a x4 weakness is actually extremely strong either defensively or offensive. There’s lots of stuff one could cover about this topic. Also the options for names is vast, for example: Volcarona, Garchomp, Scizor, Swampert, Heatran, Landorus, Ferrothorn, Weavile, Tyranitar, etc.
If you know anything on the subject, how would you design a Rock/Fire type so that it’s not crippled by its double 4x weaknesses? For some reason that’s a type that intrigues me
@@emblemblade9245 Designing such a thing is hard. Ground and Water are just too common (especially Water. It's everywhere in both single player and competitive) and too strong; best thing that I can think of is to make the proposed Rock/Fire type very fast (so that it could at least get a move off) and give it Sturdy as one of it's abilities (to actually live a hit). Gamefreak kinda wastes those types by the designing the obligatory "slow Ice/Rock-type" - if Weavile or Aerodactyl are any indication, these defensively-frail types need to be fast and offensively-focused to actually work.
@@emblemblade9245 tbh it's very easy to make any mon powerful by slapping good stuff onto it. for eg, give this mon levitate, high speed, atk and def/spdef, strong physical stabs, and possibly set-up moves such as rock polish/swords dance. Then this mon would definitely see competitive use, cus 1. fire typing physical means it can't be burnt 2. rock+fire is actually really strong neutral coverage 3. levitate allows u to easily switch into earthquakes, makes you immune to spikes and sticky web 4. rock+fire with some def/spdef stats means you can easily switch into fairy/poison/ice attacks and then proceed to sd 5. its typing also makes it very strong on sun teams, especially cus fire+rock dual resists fire (which is a common problem with grass types in sun team). 6. considering with enough stats it might even see play in ubers cus primal groudon and surpising numbers of flying types that you just happen to randomly ko with stab rock.
candidate for this crap being as bad as it sounds: Lunala is a Ghost/Psychic, being quad weak to ghost and dark. Tell me if ýou'd get in any battle without those moves
Honestly Leafeon has a lot going for it... Gen 5 gave it chlorophyll making it one of the fastest grass types in sun, gen 8 gave it Solar Blade (which gen 9 then took away) giving sun Leafeon a monstrous attack to use, and gen 9 gave it terastalization and tera blast to give a second stab move and also remove the criplling weaknesses of the grass type. The biggest things holding a sun sweeping leafeon back these days are just how abysmal the movepool is and the fact it's 110 atk stat is good but not great... Forcing it to need swords dance. But even at +6 atk there's too many holes in the movepool that every team will have SOMETHING to hard wall it. It needs coverage... Some good physical rock, steel, or fairy move options would go a LOOOONG way in helping Leafeon potentially become viable in lower smogon tiers
Might I nominate the victims of Move Dexit - i.e. Skuntank's niche as a Pursuiter being deleted, and Stoutland's STAB being reduced from Return to Strength
@@usuallyangry tbh Luxray was just screwed from the start, being in the awkward speed tier of 70 is one thing, but also being a physical electric-type is an absolute DEATH SENTENCE, physical electric's have had it extremely rough with them being....pretty much unviable (heck look at luxray who's been untiered in gen's 5-9), because if they don't have a good signature physical electric move: they are dead on arrival
Lopunny moment. Lopunny was never exactly good, but then it lost every move it had that let it kinda scrape by as a low tier mon. Now it exists entirely to Trick Assault Vests. Poor thing
6:02 "If [Regieleki] existed in a generation with just hidden power... It'd likely be one of the most terrifying pokemon around." HOME's coming in a few days, and Regieleki gets Tera Blast, so we'll see just how devastating it is soon.
An 80 base power move coming from 100 base attack/special attack might be just enough to deal with its counters especialy considering it will get stab when terra.
@@milonchello1643 If that thing goes Ice then it essentially has Bolt/Beam, which with STAB on both, Transistor and the highest speed in the game makes it rather scary.
If it appeared in Gen 3 alongside Regidrago, it would have Clear Body as its ability and a more varied movepool, as Gen 8 made weird movepool choices. All the Regis know punching moves, Rock Slide, Thunderbolt, Earthquake, Superpower and Flash Cannon. Regieleki does get Electric STAB but not the others, while Regidrago JUST got Earthquake and Earth Power.
Snorlax and flareon desperately needing that one move reminds me of black kyurem needing a reliable physical ice move. Black kyurem is an honourable mention of the flareon theorem imo
I feel like Butterfree, Ribombee, and Vivillon apply to this discussion as well. All three have access to quiver dance/sleep powder and would be awful without it. Ribombee has a strong hazard in sticky web, and the two butterflies can go for sash sweeper or a sub/sleep/stab/dance set. All three have a niche, and only because of their movepools.
@@sibernout7717 quick claw + qd is not great combo. Also butterfree is a worse vivillon unless its tinted lens even then it faces competition from Venomoth.
@@indiradevi6217 Quick Claw + Sleep Powder easily makes it take out many mons if the Quick Claw activates and with it's ability it's basically impossible for Butterfree to miss Sleep Powder. My movepool for Butterfree is: 1. Sleep Powder 2. Dream Eater 3. Quiver Dance / Air Slash 4. Bug Buzz
I’m loving this series so much. Can we get a Slaking theorem for abilities? Or like a [comment section help me out] theorem for Pokémon who may have excellent roles but the meta game doesn’t care about that role
we don’t need any more. the videos are getting really abstract now. like, yeah, of course snorlax would be better if it had slack off. the same could be said if you gave porygon-z boomburst or regieleki ice beam. what if we gave arceus population bomb? or giratina both recover AND rage fist? they’d be better. it starts to become meaningless. the stat videos worked better because at least stats cannot be discussed without the pokémon’s other traits - as said in this video, a pokémon with the best of any given stat in the game is terrible if it can’t do anything once it hits the field, or has a typing that actively works against its role. similarly, a pokémon with quite literally every move in the game does nothing if it has no stats. smeargle has the grace of 70 base speed but i guarantee you if it was 10, it’d probably NEVER see use. and i get that saying that is hypocritical - in fact it’s my exact point. stripping a mon down to its base properties like abilities or moves or even stats and looking at those in a vacuum takes away its identity and renders any and all discussion about a pokémon mute.
It might be interesting to make a video about how some of these rules are completely flipped on their head in doubles. Stuff like super high speed pokemon with other bad stats are a lot worse in doubles, meanwhile something like Regieleki was absolutely dominant in VGC (granted it's movepool is better for VGC than singles)
All eevees could be competitively viable by either flipping one of its base stats, or giving it a better movepool. Even now with its current moves, if flareons speed and spdef flipped, it would be at the very least a good niche.
Espeon already has a good movepool due to psychic types, for some reason, inherently gaining access to broader type coverage. But the rest are neutered by Eevee's base form being as vanilla as possible that you can't even pass the unique moves its evolutions learn as egg moves to another form like you can with Tyrouge.
Vaporeon’s coverage is nearly great but needs super effective coverage against Water types, Glaceon needs strong Water or Ground coverage that is not Water Pulse or Mud Shot, Sylveon needs Mystical Fire again and Espeon like what D-Havoc said got coverage over the generations but needs super effective coverage against Steel types. All the others… yeah they have bad coverage. I’m not even mentioning Tera Blast for solutions.
@@D-Havoc Espeon's issue is that its ability, magic boune is much better suited for hatterene, a bulky pokemon with healing. It would be much better with an offensive ability, because otherwise there are just better psychic type spatkers in the game
@@astralnova10 Well Espeon is an older Pokémon, and there were fewer Magic Bounce Pokémon back then. So that ability made it an OU staple for years. Giving an otherwise Offensive Pokémon a Defensive ability isn't unheard of, just look at Rough Skin Garchomp.
Yah wanna know what makes Flareon's move pool even more annoying? In lgpe, one of the special partner eevee tutor moves, is a powerful, physical fire type move that doesn't do recoil, and has a 100% chance to burn. If they gave Flareon that move, yeah it wouldn't be ou material, but it could at least do something in the lower tiers.
Honestly, all of the Eeveelutions should have gotten those respective exclusive moves in later installments. Such a missed opportunity that would benefit every one of them in some way.
@cesarflamenco9484 Eh, they'd have to tweak some of them for the eeveelutions better offensive stat, but besides that they'd be amazing (Especially things like Umbreon, which sets up reflect to help take strong fighting moves)
Honorable mention to Blacephalon: it’s lack of good attacking moves make it a one trick pony, but it makes up for it with a good offensive typing and sheer speed & firepower.
Perhaps we could get a "Wild Charge Theorem:" or how Pokemon of certain types (like Electric, Rock and Fire) without a useful signature move being unviable/less viable because their preferred method of attack either has really risky moves (Physical Fire types relying on Flare Blitz and its nasty recoil), very few viable moves which simply might not appear in their moveset (if a Special-attacking Rock type lacks Power Gem . . .) or both (the many Physical Electric types stuck with Wild Charge and only Wild Charge).
They only just now actually give Power Gem to most of the Rock-types that never had it before until now Now the question is, will the likes of Omastar and Aurorus return in the S/V DLC and thus finally get STAB Power Gem for the first time?
this is literally every pokémon, or pretty close to it. there is a near-infinite number of possible formats, of course mons are unexpectedly good/bad in some of them.
This could be called the Articuno theorem, because for some reason Articuno was viable as a cleric and water/grass/dragon wall in Generation 8 UU for some reason.
I'd like to add in the curious case of Contrary Lurantis. In its debut generation, Lurantis didn't have a lot going for it. A pure grass type with a relatively subpar move pool (although it makes for a good Torkoal partner). A pretty pokemon for sure, but not a pretty good pokemon. Funnily enough tho, Lurantis was also given Contrary as a hidden ability. As a physical attacker this is great, since it never needs to worry about intimidate or other stat reductions, and most contrary pokemon get a stat reducing move that matches their main attacking stat. Not Lurantis though. It got Leaf Storm. A great move, but definitely was not good on Lurantis. After its generation came and went, it was brought back into Sword and Shield where it was able to flourish. It was given the move Superpower, which as many know, lowers the users' attack and defense. It was perfect for Lurantis, and while it still didn't see a lot of play, it at least gained a second niche as a Trick Room Attacker. Then Scarlet and Violet came, where they took away Superpower, bringing Lurantis back down to where it started, albeit in a much stronger game.
@@JaelinBezel what kind of bone headed comment is this? That's completely incorrect. Either you treat the game like pokemon go and catch pokemon until you get one that has a hidden ability or you use an Ability Patch, WHICH TURNS YOUR ABILITY INTO THE HIDDEN ABILITY.
@@NathanTruby i just play Pokémon. Doing Soulsilver right now. I’ve never heard of Ability Patch. Is that an item? Considering you can’t catch Pokémon with hidden abilities why would i bother catching a lot to try to find one? Also I’ve never played Pokémon GO.
@@JaelinBezel fair enough, i shouldn't have come at you like that. Soulsilver pokemon don't have hidden abilities. It wouldn't be until pokemon black and white that pokemon would gain hidden abilities. The ability patch is an item from generation 8 (sword and shield) and has existed since. You can catch pokemon with hidden abilities out in the wild from gen 6 and onwards, but its generally easier to get it from a games encounter gimmick like Horde Encounters in Gen 6, SOS battles in Gen 7, etc. Don't play pokemon go, it's fun at first but can quickly become a grind.
@@NathanTruby i’m too rural for Pokémon GO (and I’m against putting any games on my phone for some reason) but I’ve been playing since Generation 1 and I own physical cartridges of at least one mainline game from every generation except 1 (I lost them a long long time ago). My mainline games are: Silver & Crystal Emerald and FireRed Platinum & SoulSilver White and VoltWhite 2 (Which I’ve beaten! That romhack is fucking hard and I’m very proud!) Both X & Y and OmegaRuby Moon & UltraSun Sword, Legends Arceus, and Shining Pearl Scarlet. I like to replay my Pokémon games a lot and which one just depends. I think i play through Moon and UltraSun the most often though.
I’d like to thank you for this series, it’s helping me understand what competitive pokemon is in a more digestible format for me, like focusing more on the applications of why things matter could be super helpful I think
I love this could be renamed "the RBY theorem". Also, you should do a video about those Pokémon with a tiny movepool but just the right moves to make them good.
With all of these new theorems running around, I wonder if we'll get a "Has nearly everything to be good, but ONE specific thing causes it to be shot down from great." kind of Theorem. A Slaking Theorem, perhaps? Plus, it's been a while, so it'd be nice to reference the Slaking & Gigas videos again.
Seems like all the Eeveelutions have thin movepools, but some are more affected by it than others, & Umbreon is also majorly affected by it in a different way than is Flareon. Might a video on the effect of set damage or similarly consistent damage moves on competitives be a good theme at some point?
Smeargle has always been a weird case. Its stats suck ass with a straw, but it can do so many sick things with his movepool... even causing Dark Void's nerf, poor Darkrai 😢
Imagine if Flareon got Drought or Sheer Force, followed by the move Wild Charge which goes with the theme of high power moves with drawbacks (Such as Flare Blitz, Superpower, Double-Edge, etc). Suddenly you got a much more interesting pokémon. From a doubles perspective it's basically just a support outclassed by other supports or a turn one surprise in slower metas if you go for a Jolly Scarf set only for it to be walled the next turn. Crunch or High Horsepower would also be interesting but it wouldn't go with the theme of the good moves Flareon currently has.
Possible ideas for future theorems: Why abilities are sometimes everything: The Slaking theorem Why typing is almost everything: The avalugg/aurorus/iron thorns theorem Why availability is sometimes everything: The pachirisu theorem Why balanced stats are not everything: The lucario theorem (this one being about how mixed attackers, pokemon with average stats all around, etc, are not as good as those with unbalanced stats towards a niche)
That regieleki spot is a lot funnier now, you absolutely called it. Gen IX's gimmick tera offering essentially Hidden Power with tera blast. It took one day for boltbeam regieleki to get banned.
A moment of silence to all physical electric types without signature moves(bolt strike, double shock, plasma fist etc). When your type's best options for physical damage is wild charge and thunder punch....
they should give bolt tackle(i think it's pikachu's signature move) to other pokemon. Why can a lot of fire pokemon have a 120 physical move but not electrick ones?(both types were special before the shift)
Look mom I made it! That aside, I'm enjoying this series thus far. Can't wait to see the other "theorems" that everybody's been suggesting in the comments lol
Dang, you guys are popping off with these Theorem videos. These have been great to help explain various nuances of the Pokemon competitive scene to my friends that don't actually play it themselves.
I know that it may be a weird pick, but Zamazenta having an excellent defense stat, an ability that further boosts it and in the gen that introduced a fighting type move that uses the user's defense stat to deal damage, but for some reason, they decided that Zamazenta shouldn't have Body Press in gen 8.
Still doesn't have reliable recovery to last since crowned can't use rest+chesto or leftovers since it's item slots taken for the form or a good move to compliment its defense like Kings Shield Zacian is a spoiled mf
@@skeetermania3202 because it's not meant to be mainly offensive to do that is just playing with a worse Zacian in terms of moveset and attack stat (130 vs 170) Zamazenta is supposed to be a wall to stall and wear down with its very good defense stat but can't really do anything to achieve that with its terrible movepool so you're just carrying deadweight Meanwhile Zacian has lots of good moves to take advantage of its attack stat, coverage, and the best typing it could ask for
Ideas: 1) Why abilities are everything - the Pelliper theorem 2) Why a bad defensive typing isn't neccesarilly nothing - the Tyranitar theorem 3) Why HP isn't everything - the Guzzlord theorem
Why did almost every Grass-type Pokémon up to Gen 6-7 have movepools entirely consisting of Grass moves, Normal moves, Toxic, and Sunny Day? It was really lame.
but hey, at least Venusaur and Abomasnow got Earth Power last gen, and they made sure to give Arboliva Earth Power and Dazzling Gleam (and they made sure to give Rillaboom Superpower and High Horsepower last gen too, but it lost both of those.......for now)
I remember when I first got into smogon battles on pkm showdown I was looking through pokemon on serebii to build a team and I saw how flareon had such an insane attack stat. I was thinking " how do I never see this pokemon?". Then I look at the move pool and I was stunned that flareon didn't learn flare blitz.
Just a look at the stats and you can see why it's not good. Even if it had Flareblitz, Wildcharge, Close combat back then, it'd still be a frail and slow fire type.
Typhlosion finally has 4 different typed moves he can finally run on one set, without counting focus miss ofc. He still obviously needs earth power and scald tho, like he’s literally a volcano
So many times I ignored Clefairy until the first time I caught one and realised with one I could plug pretty much any gap in my team. Aerodactyl in gen 1 & 2 had great stats but awful moves. In gen 3 I actually really like using it.
Cant wait for the 'Nothing Truly Matters; A Missingno Theorem', stating that no matter how your Pokemon are or how well you play, RNG will screw you over one way or the other (Documentary on Will-o-miss and other such shenanigans)
I think klinklang could also be a good example of this. Its stats spread are surprisingly good, but since the coverage moves it has were wild charge and normal move, it is not as optimal as those with more coverage.
that Clerks reference lol there's been a Steam group for years called "The Petition Against Flareon Uselessness".. it's sad that it never worked out, but we've been faithful to her this whole time.
One thing that I think should have been mentioned was that Mew's high equal stats and massive movepool meant that if someone sent it out, you had no way of telling what role it filled until after it moved.
It should've been called Scizor theorem, it has a demonstration of how moveset is everything in Gen 3 BAD once it got a moveset it turned into an always strong good pokemon
I'd have put Gen 2 Umbreon on this list, due to the combination of Mean Look and BP. Not a story of movepools being lacking, but of how having a distinct movepool gives it a strong niche.
Its not that supricing really when u think about it why Snorlax hasent been given Slack off. While there are some pokemon that was given the move and were lazy, Snorlax whole theme is the fact that its constantly sleeping and nothing other then a Pokeflute can wake it up. That means forcing the player to only ever have the option of using Rest and make sure that Snorlax always sleeps.
Great video! This is so true. There are some Pokémon that just have such a wide movepool, that you can have some really unique builds and strategies. I'm not as familiar with the more modern movepools, but I remember back in earlier generations some Pokémon were crippled by their movepools (or there was only one viable moveset). The physical/special split actually benefited a number of Pokémon in Gen 4. Although, of course, there were Pokémon on the opposite end of the spectrum like Nidoking who could learn a crazy amount of moves.
it doesn’t have a good support movepool tho. supposed to be a wall but lacks the tools to support the team with it’s utility. it’s essentially a momentum killer
Aside from what Nas said, its base 100 attack, which isn’t bad, isn’t groundbreaking enough and it has a horrible HP stat to take advantage of taking hits. And it’s slow.
And a lot of Gen 1 Pokemon get the benefit of having rather ridiculous move pools that probably never would have happened had they been introduced a few generations later. Who really believes that Nidoking would have gotten Fire Blast, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt had it been introduced in Gen 3 or 4? Or the oddity that the Nidos and Rydon get access to Surf despite it making little sense?
@@PatchesNjose I thought of a couple: Gardevoir - out classed by Lele and later Hatterene, even when she had the mega; and before she became a Fairy was kinda ass Lucario - power crept without the mega Most Eeveelutions - possibly among the most bland and generic movepools you could think of, aside from maybe Umbreon Blastoise - was waiting for Shell Smash for 4 gens since the moves existence, and by then too later too late Ampharos - never gets Tail Glow (when the move existed) or anything super note-worthy (like a new ability like Electric Surge) Sceptile - wasted movepool on it's lower 85 Atk vs 105 Sp. Atk with little to no movepool Flygon - poor man's Garchomp, that's it Milotic - movepool has gone stale since Gen 5 OG Zoroark - Illusion ability came at the wrong gen Infernape - power crept, and even in Gen 4 eventually fell off in OU once the metagame adapted Tinkaton - 75 Atk, no Huge Power, and no Thick Club held-item equivalent for it's line Decidueye - 70 Spe and only has Long Reach for HA Luxray - 70 Spe, no reliable STAB movepool, and mediocre movepool with mostly bite moves but without Strong Jaw or at least Tough Claws Mimikyu - 90 Atk, and even when it's ability got nerfed in Gen 8 if still never got STAB Poltergeist (cause GF was scared it would make it overpowered, even when they already nerfed it's ability) Most pseudo-legendaries get away scout free, just by nature.............except K-Goodra and nowadays Metagross without the mega (the lose of it's Dark and Ghost neutralities alongside power-creep and the Explosion nerf made it a liability in singles, again without the Mega)
Nitpicky idea, but if the title were 'Why abilities *Might* be everything' instead then the video could also talk about squakabilly, a pokemon with an amazing ability, but is still overall bad.
Smeargle is genuinely the perfect inverse of Flareon theorem given how Having Access To Every Move At Once is so powerful that it ends up in Ubers every nanosecond it's legal because of how it's perfect for role filling whatever a team might need
Complete the series: Why Abilities are Everything - The Regigigas Theorum
The Slaking Theorem?
Regi-King theorem 😂
Perhaps the title should be Why Abilities are Sometimes Everything since good abilities don’t always help
@@azurai3934 the squakabilly theorem
The Archeops Theory
When Flareon finally got the physical fire stab it wanted, power creep ensured it didn’t matter.
Poor doggo
At least Flareon is still the best for hugs
Rom hackers: now this looks like a job for me!
@@IloveHildasfeet Nice name 😳
Plus aside from Superpower (the move it can’t learn in SV unless you transfer), it has Trailblaze, Double Kick, Dig, Facade, Tera Blast and Bite, and only Trailblaze, Facade and Tera Blast are viable options but still not as groundbreaking unless you do Tera Normal.
Honorable mention to Aerodactyl for having Rock Head as an ability but not Head Smash or Brave Bird in its move pools.
Even Crobat gets Brave Bird and it’s not even a bird. So Aerodactyl should’ve gotten it.
It doesnt even get Double Edge anymore. Only had access to it as a tutor more in FRLG. I think as of Gen 8, it's only recoil move is Take Down.
My favorite bird: the bat
Aerodactyl was truly cursed for the first two gens. Didn't get rock slide or any good flying moves. The instant it DID finally get rock slide in gen 3 it shot up to OU.
@@oscara1573 About on par with my favorite bug: the plant.
Flareon's lackluster move pool truly reached meme status when the "However, Flareon is the only fully evolved Fire type Pokémon that cannot learn Solar Beam" thing hit the field.
W o w
Did not know that LMAO
To be fair it isn't missing much, solar beam is a terrible move even in gens without a weather setter being on nearly every team.
I especially don't recommend the move on ninetails in gen 5 as it invites in the other two weather setters freely since ttar is more than happy to eat a beam and ko back while politoed will just switch into it and then protect to force ninetails out
@@sablesalt It's a joke from the "Ariel Needs Legs" comic, where Eric is shown rambling about Pokemon trivia to Ariel, and he goes, apparently unprompted, "However, Flareon is the only fully evolved Fire type Pokémon that cannot learn Solar Beam." This apparently convinces Ariel that she needs to jump his bones.
@@misterbadguy7325 damn, wish I cared to have asked at all
8 legs
7 vaganias
I remember reading an entry from Serebii's Pokémon of the week/month things years ago, and I have never forgotten the all caps "GIVE IT FLARE BLITZ" written into Flareon's competitive viability section.
"GIVE IT FLARE BLITZ like that would make it see any use" was the full quote iirc
It was still slow and fragile. Pretty much any other Fire-type could do its job more effectively.
Even flame wheel would have been good
If anything I'd call this the Smeargle Theorem. That thing has miserable stats yet still finds niches for itself because it has access to nearly every move in the series.
Flareon is a great example of a pokemon left out to dry because of horrible move pool for it's stats. Physical fire type from generation 1 never had any good moves to use that attack stat and by the time it did get a physical fire stab it was fire fang a move with low base power that couldn't use the high attack stat to the fullest.
Dude put Smeargle in the video tho
@@morphstarchangeling8024 And then it got flare blitz but absolutely no coverage, making it next to useless anyways
@@morphstarchangeling8024
But when it was finally given what it wanted it was still ass because guts fire types can't even use flame orb and flare blitz recoil makes it's longevity problems even worse (and yes it is hazard weak).
@Morphstar changeling the sad thing is, in gen 1 special was one stat so flareon actually had a decent option with flamethrower, and it had a physical stat to use moves like strength or other high powered normal moves. Then gen 2 happened, and flareon's special defense took all the special stat from Gen 1, and the special attack was left in the dust.
Lilligant has got to be one of the most promising grass type offensive mons, with acess to both sleep powder and quiver dance, and even own tempo to spam petal dance without regrets. But she just falls flat for the lack of coverage. She basically only learns grass and normal type offensive moves, and polen puff, wich is nice but not exactly the best coverage a grass type would want.
And hidden power doesn’t even exist anymore so it can’t use that
At least there a Hisuan Lilligant now and it's pretty good
He did have a bland Pokémon choice and mentioned Grass types so Lilligant fits there. It’s an example of a Grass type that has limited to no non-STAB coverage which that type is notable for.
im a lilligant fan and i cant touch flying, fire, poison or steel type pokemon. Hurts a bit.
It feels like it’s by design at this point. A mon with sleep powder and quiver dance is a deadly cleaner once grass resists got kicked to the curb.
A relatively new Pokétuber named Zen Mode has a series about fixing weaker Pokémon. So far, he's only changed one 'mon's type, and has left all stats alone; instead, he focuses on evolution level, abilities, and moves. I would say updating the moves has been the most impactful so far, and is perhaps the greatest example of The Flareon Theorem out there.
been watching him and his videos are great
The Skitty video has been his best so far. But that was less about how he changed Skitty, but moreso the playstyle of funneling everything through Assist.
I want to help bump this comment. Zen Mode's retoolings feel realistic and are based on character design: how I feel GameFreak itself makes decisions (at the best of times, anyway).
He inspired me to choose Chikorita on my 4th Rejuve play through, just debugging a flareon and moves for this time around as well
Oh heck yes, a Zen Mode plug! Dude’s Parasect video shot up my interest in that Pokémon by a ton
Something else about movepools not mentioned in this video is that, roughly, a bigger move pool means more viable sets, more viable sets means more unpredictability, and more unpredictability means it’s harder to counter something because you don’t know what set it’s running. For example- Lando-T can run offensive SD, band, scarf, explosion lead, bulky pivot with SR, and even a surprise specs set, and you have to at keep in mind this versatility when you run into it. If are not anticipating what set they are running and they catch you off guard, you can potentially lose the game right then and there. Half the battle is just discovering which set Lando-T is running, and that’s something only possible with its huge movepool of viable moves. As briefly mentioned in the Snorlax segment, even just the addition of one move can make a huge difference for what opponents might anticipate or team build for, regardless of if you are using that move or not; the addition of Slack Off to Snorlax would also be a buff to, say, a choice band set, because they also have to anticipate a belly drum set, 3 attack + slack off set, utility set, and curse set that are bolstered or even exist because of the addition of Slack Off
"Does my water/ground type counter infernape, or immediately die to grass knot" and other fun games you can play by yourself
You know a theorem is true when the opposite extreme can be listed as an only weakness. In ORAS, Clefable was consistently S tier in OU. It just did everything. I distinctly remember it’s one weakness on smogon being “you can only bring 4 moves”
that's the "4 move slot syndrome", and there are LOTS of pokemon who have this case
@@bulborb8756 I remember how Marshadow was like that. You wanted Rock Tomb for flying types, Ice Punch for Zygarde, but couldn't take both so you had to decide. Sure it wasn't as extreme as Clefable, but the issue was there.
@@Regigigas_YT but...why even have rock tomb for flying types when ice punch can already counter them + zygarde
@@bulborb8756 different types are hit super effective by each moves. Ice punch hits grass and rock hits bug.
@@bulborb8756 One example that comes to My mind is my favorite Monke with his head on fire
You could also call it the Weavile theorem, since the utility and best attacking moves were taken away from Weavile, causing it to plummet to RU. Still has massive speed, but it's movepool still took a hit. Sincerely, a Weavile fan who is totally miffed it got nerfed
And got replaced by Chein-Pao until it got banned to Ubers
@Arachine Atzeer And is still outclassed in OU by Baxcalibur.
Weavile is paying for its war crimes in Gen 8 OU.
@@glacierwolf2155 what did it do in gen VIII?
@ War crimes
@ punched every Pokémon in front of it
I always found Normal types interesting in this regard. By definition they cannot have supereffective STAB moves, so I believe they are compensated by receiving crazy dense movepools with many types available. This explains why Porygon and Snorlax could learn Thunderbolt in Gen 1, or why Cyclizar can learn Power Whip in Gen 9, because movepool variety makes up for the "eh" stab type. And while I haven't seen them use such movepools extensively so far, it does make for a neat surprise factor in terms of options. Hopefully this beneficial trait becomes more handy with time.
Gen 9 move dexit has really done a number on a couple of mons. Weavile losing Knock Off and Triple Axel sent it from S-tier OU to RU, Blissey and Chansey losing Toxic sent them down to RU as well, Slow twins losing Teleport and Scald also made them significantly worse. Landorus-Therian is gonna have a hard time now too after losing Defog, Knock Off, and Toxic (and to a lesser extent, Rock Polish).
Wasn’t just losing toxic for the blissey line, they also lost teleport, and stall got nerfed, PP for soft boiled is like now 8 turns max
Not to mention the recovery move PP nerf . . . The only notable defensive Pokemon I can think of that haven't been sent tumbling down the tiers due to these changes is Toxapex . . . which despite losing Scald _and_ Knock Off *_and_* half of Recover's PP still somehow manages to have enough tools to stick around in OU, and Slowking thanks to Chilly Reception and Bax (both still have Regenerator, which might explain this).
@@JinisBored Wish too (it was an event move)
Lando is not as worse off as it still has its superb offensive sets like double dance and scarf. Plus lando in general gets nasty plot this gen so perhaps special lando t, as cope as it’ll be, will possibly be a thing moving forward.
Why are they taking away so many moves now? Do they just want every one of their Pokémon to fall into the lower tiers?
The Pidove line is a great example of this as well. 2nd best ATK stat after Starraptor. Nearly exclusively special moveset.
Funny thing, the best way I could utilize Unfezant is with Super luck holding zoom lens. I could find no other way to utilize it, id just roll the dice with hypnosis and hope for the best.
Hypnosis
Night slash
Sky Attack
Roost
@@siegemonstrosity2383 sky attack is a 2-turn move, and those historically have never been useful in competitive unless with a power herb (or have ways to bypass the charge turn like how solar beam and solar blade can be used in 1 turn if the sun is up)
and when it recieved brave bird it lost return. Has to rely on guts....
@@bulborb8756 power herb + sky attack + acrobatics is possibly the worst combination i've ever made and i love it sm
@@siegemonstrosity2383Sorry, but that set is just bad. I run slash, night slash, scope lens (it's fast enough for UU o below that zoom isn't too reliable), quick attack (Good when at low hp or facing a counter), and I think I ran brave bird for my flying move
The thing that will always bother me is how some electric moves like Zing Zap or Volt Tackle are basically just:
"Put electricity all around yourself and charge the opponent"
Yet these moves are still just signature moves for one or two mons.
Same thing with Plasma Fists, it's basically Ion Deluge but as a punching move, if something like Electivire can learn Ion Deluge (I forgot if it can) while also having powerful fists, then it should also be able to learn Plasma Fists.
Physical electric types really deserve some attention.
that is true since the best physical electric moves....all happen to be signature moves: volt tackle, fusion bolt, bolt strike, bolt beak, aura wheel, plasma fists, double shock, all moves with high power and are all signature moves, Zing Zap would be a good balanced move...but is still only on togedemaru and pincurchin.
physical electric's have constantly had a rough life with being utterly unviable due to them having next to no options (compared to say physical water which have plenty of options: aqua cutter, razor shell, waterfall, liquidation and wave crash)
If it wasn't for Zing Zap's Japanese name ("Shocky-Shocky Prickly" or something like that, which implies only spiky mons can get it), they would've definitely distribute it to other mons.
Volt Tackle I guess I can understand. It's Pikachu's signature move. But why can't they buff Wild Charge to be a slightly weaker version of Volt Tackle (instead of much worse like it is now)?
Same with Plasma Fists: if they really want to keep it exclusive to Zeraora, why not make a new move that's just a slightly weaker version of Plasma Fists (let's say 85 base power), like they did with Shadow/Phantom Force? (also yes, Electavire could learn Ion Deluge before it got Dexit'd)
I really hope they at least make Double Shock not exclusive to Pawmot in Gen 10.
Every day I think about how things could be if Double Shock was a Close Combat clone that comes on a TR.
Plasma fists would be quite fitting for elekid line paired with e-vires ability motor drive it would be quite good
The physical ghost types got a reliable STAB in Poltergeist last gen; Unless you’re like any of Aegislash, Mimikyu, Blacephalon, Dragapult, Basculegion or Annihilape (maybe Ceruledge too) where they’re already so good that GF fears giving any of them a 110BP STAB move, even if it’s 90% accurate and has no synergy with Knock Off
I’m loving these theorem videos FSG, and it’s so cool to see these theorems fleshed out that have been underlying concepts throughout all of your many “how good was:” videos
It's not just Flare Blitz. Flareon lacks SO MANY normal generic or fitting physical movepool options. I will list them:
- does NOT get EQ;
- does NOT get Rock Slide nor Stone Edge;
- does NOT get Solar Beam, Grass Knot, or any other Grass-type coverage move that would wreck any of its weakness types, aside from Trailblaze... which is a 50-base power move. except if you happen to get a Grass-Tera Type Eevee/Flareon so it can use Tera Blast;
- does NOT get CRUNCH even though it gets BITE?!;
- NO Close Combat (to use as a suicide banded guts set);
- NO Foul Play;
- NO Iron Head OR Iron Tail (IT HAS A GIANT TAIL, WHY NOT?!);
- NO Low Sweep;
- No Lunge;
- NO Play Rough;
- LOST access to Superpower;
- NO Zen Headbutt
seriously, the more I looked into it the more depressed I got.
it had Iron Tail before, it lost access to that for the same reason it lost access to Superpower
and no Wild Charge either
It used to have Body Slam in Gen 3 via Move Tutor, but that wasn't brought back until Gen 8. BLEH!!!
@@F1areon Body Slam was a TM in RGBY and was the standard issue move to practically every mon that can learn it (pretty much the entire Pokedex of Kanto).
That's the reason why almost every Gen 1 mons can learn it by TR in gen 8.
I think a lot of Pokémon could be made infinitely better by a single addition to their move pool. Shell smash for kingler, slack off for snorlax, and recover for swampert are all good examples.
Wave Crash Floatzel and Shell Smash Drednaw are the latest examples that actually happened in S/V
@@goGothitaLOL Yep, there's also shell smash blastoise in gen 8.
why would kingler get shell smash though? it has no shell
@@sirtetris crabs have shells
@@JinisBored yeah it has an exoskeleton but if you smash that it's just gonna die in 5 seconds
It's not every day you see someone admit that Flareon had some legitimately potential, but it says a lot that about Flareon when the maker of Renegade Platinum not only gave it Flare Blitz, but also Close Combat by level up. And they even re-scrambled its stats to look more like Leafeon's.
I'm picking flareon in my next renegade platinum nuzlocke thank you sir
And if anyone mentions fantina ill use the patterz bibarel strategy
And if I lose it was worth it
@@teriso1793 I mean, Renegade Platinum Flareon is still Infernape-but-worse, but I like the enthusiasm. ^^;
I'd like to know how that Nuzlock turns out.
The funny thing is that being compared to Infernape is still not flattering given that by now Infernape has never had a generation where it has stayed on top at all of any singles or doubles tier.
@@iantaakalla8180 I think that's a bit harsh to Infernape. The mere fact that it held onto a niche in gen 4 OU should be a big achievement, and it's never been a bad Pokemon.
Granted, offensive fire type Pokemon do have a lot to deal with.
I ran Flareon for a good while, it has problems, but its above average Sp. Defense and access to Guts let me surprise many people.
Flare Blitz and Superpower let it hit super hard for one or two turns, and Facade hit whatever else and without drawbacks. I often ran Flame Charge with Toxic Orb or Quick Attack with Choice Band.
Fire and Electric really really need good generic physical moves that don't have recoil, similar to Water's Liquidation.
Specially electric. Wild charge is only 90 BP AND recoil
The closest thing Fire type has to a good generic physical move is Blaze Kick and it has shoddy accuracy and poor distribution
There needs to be a 90 BP 100 acc move for every type. One for physical and for special. Id love to have conkeldur have a move like that to replace stone edge. Iv lost so many gqmes due to its accuracy.
Yeah, but not as much as some other types do.
On one hand, both those types really desperately need options. On the other, I think movepool differences between types is part of what makes pokes unique. Just y'know, maybe not to such an extreme extent
I would also put Klingklang in this theorem. Good typing, amazing buffing move and reasonable attack power, but only learns steel/electric movies aside from Return.
I think it fits the "bland" mons category.
Too bad Gear Grind has such bad accuracy
@@yeet8036 It fits here too because it has the same issues as Flareon does. Learns more moves of the weaker stats than what it's actually strong in -Physical Attack-.
@@enoyna1001 Gear Grind should flinch like Double Iron bash
Revavroom too. This thing get's steel and poison stab. And Bulldoze. And that's it.
shoutouts to Gen 5 giving Flareon Guts but not Flare Blitz. Really synergizes well with that Heal Bell they gave it!
😂
Another video idea is “The pachirisu theorem” where a pokemon can have success if it has a combination of unique traits that no other Pokémon can replicate.
If you are referring to that one VGC battle, it might as well be "Why popularity is not everything: The Spanish Inquisition Theorem"
That falls under quagsire thereom.
It doesn’t wor with slaking even tho durant has it too
In a specific situation as well, like a restricted format where only mons from the regional dex could be used. If there were more options, Pachirisu might not have been chosen.
I still call "One madlad player changes the metagame with a weird, niche pick" events across all games as "The Pachirisu Effect", and would love to see some variant of terminology be used.
I'd like to propose the Electivire theorem - Or why coverage isn't everything.
Yeah, that one is missing.
Can't think of any more theorems.
Having spammable STAB is everything.
There's a romhack called Energized Emerald where Flareon gets Contrary as an ability. With it and moves like Superpower, Overheat, and a new fire type Hammer Arm move, it's become a scary little beastie.
Next episode: Why healing makes all the difference - The mega aggron theorem (or the chansey theorem)
He already did the why defenses arent everything
@@Edujs23 Yea but healing also works in the offense side of things with poison heal, leftovers, drain punch etc.
@@fabriciocastrovizzotto9106 I still don’t fully understand why it’s deemed necessary. It kinda leads to homogenization.
@@fabriciocastrovizzotto9106 fucken aye, bulk up rest rage fist annihilape can potentially sit in all game, but slap drain punch on as your fourth and no wonder it was banned.
or the mudsdale theorem. Since mudsdale has an awesome defensive ability, but is hampered by no access to healing. And in a rom hack where it gets slack off, it's an absolute monster
I would propose the Avalugg Theorem: Why Typing Matters.
While a smaller theorem to be sure, you have to admit lots of Pokemon are let down by their typing even today because their typing doesn't support the Pokemon's niche. Avalugg is a prime example, having great defensive stats and decent moves for the role with Recover and Rapid Spin and the Hisuian Form also having entry hazards, but it has the worst defensive typing in the game especially the Hisuian Form. If Avalugg had Weavile-like stats of of being a sweeper with that typing it could be deadly but like real life glaciers during climate change Avalugg doesn't stand a chance as it is.
On the opposite side of the coin consider how much the Fairy type revolutionized the game and even meh Pokemon became viable just by being a Fairy type.
If they ever bring back the "reverse type chart" battle style that existed for a singular generation, Avalugg would still be kinda meh
Include luxray on that
@@connorbosley4431 Luxray also suffers from bad stat distribution and movepool, it being pure electric is the least of its problems.
I think it’s better to call it the frostmoth theorem because it has great ability and movepool but has the worst typing in the game
Nah, H-Avalugg Theorem lol
I recently played HGSS again and used a Flareon on my team. I didn't have access to move tutors for better attacks so it was stuck with a really bad moveset, to the point where I taught it Strength just for more power
:(
Reminds me of playing Emerald and using an absol. Dark type being special, I had to use slash and shadow ball!
@@dale6947sucker punch didn’t exist in Gen 3? I haven’t played it in so long.
yeah cause in gen 4 flareon's only physical fire move is fire fang, it doesn't learn that move until level 43 in gen 4, honestly this eeveelution has had an extremely rough life with being the worst one (but it's debatable if he's still the worst or the 2nd worst after glaceon)
@@bulborb8756 2nd worst, at least Flareon looks friend-shaped and huggable.
Would be great to see a theorum covering x4 weakness mons and why it’s either not the end of the world or how having a combination of types that can result in a x4 weakness is actually extremely strong either defensively or offensive.
There’s lots of stuff one could cover about this topic.
Also the options for names is vast, for example: Volcarona, Garchomp, Scizor, Swampert, Heatran, Landorus, Ferrothorn, Weavile, Tyranitar, etc.
If you know anything on the subject, how would you design a Rock/Fire type so that it’s not crippled by its double 4x weaknesses? For some reason that’s a type that intrigues me
@@emblemblade9245 Designing such a thing is hard. Ground and Water are just too common (especially Water. It's everywhere in both single player and competitive) and too strong; best thing that I can think of is to make the proposed Rock/Fire type very fast (so that it could at least get a move off) and give it Sturdy as one of it's abilities (to actually live a hit). Gamefreak kinda wastes those types by the designing the obligatory "slow Ice/Rock-type" - if Weavile or Aerodactyl are any indication, these defensively-frail types need to be fast and offensively-focused to actually work.
@@emblemblade9245 tbh it's very easy to make any mon powerful by slapping good stuff onto it. for eg, give this mon levitate, high speed, atk and def/spdef, strong physical stabs, and possibly set-up moves such as rock polish/swords dance. Then this mon would definitely see competitive use, cus 1. fire typing physical means it can't be burnt 2. rock+fire is actually really strong neutral coverage 3. levitate allows u to easily switch into earthquakes, makes you immune to spikes and sticky web 4. rock+fire with some def/spdef stats means you can easily switch into fairy/poison/ice attacks and then proceed to sd 5. its typing also makes it very strong on sun teams, especially cus fire+rock dual resists fire (which is a common problem with grass types in sun team). 6. considering with enough stats it might even see play in ubers cus primal groudon and surpising numbers of flying types that you just happen to randomly ko with stab rock.
give it good stats, levitate or water absorb@@emblemblade9245
candidate for this crap being as bad as it sounds: Lunala is a Ghost/Psychic, being quad weak to ghost and dark. Tell me if ýou'd get in any battle without those moves
Honestly Leafeon has a lot going for it... Gen 5 gave it chlorophyll making it one of the fastest grass types in sun, gen 8 gave it Solar Blade (which gen 9 then took away) giving sun Leafeon a monstrous attack to use, and gen 9 gave it terastalization and tera blast to give a second stab move and also remove the criplling weaknesses of the grass type. The biggest things holding a sun sweeping leafeon back these days are just how abysmal the movepool is and the fact it's 110 atk stat is good but not great... Forcing it to need swords dance. But even at +6 atk there's too many holes in the movepool that every team will have SOMETHING to hard wall it. It needs coverage... Some good physical rock, steel, or fairy move options would go a LOOOONG way in helping Leafeon potentially become viable in lower smogon tiers
I vivdly remember a conversation before Gen 6 came out:
"Maybe Flareon will finally get THAT move."
"You mean Solarbeam?"
Meanwhile in gen 10:
"Flareon is getting a new move!"
"Wait, really? What is it?"
"Celebration!"
"Gamefreak, I swear to GOD"
Might I nominate the victims of Move Dexit - i.e. Skuntank's niche as a Pursuiter being deleted, and Stoutland's STAB being reduced from Return to Strength
Dodrio gaining Jump Kick in SM, Junp Kick getting Thanos snapped, and BDSP giving it Lunge and Wing Attack to compensate
I found a Shiny Dodrio in HGSS and transferred it to SM for Jump Kick, only to have my heart shattered that it was removed when transferring
Weavile, Skuntank, Luxray. They just fucking hate Sinnoh Pokémon, apparently.
@@usuallyangry tbh Luxray was just screwed from the start, being in the awkward speed tier of 70 is one thing, but also being a physical electric-type is an absolute DEATH SENTENCE, physical electric's have had it extremely rough with them being....pretty much unviable (heck look at luxray who's been untiered in gen's 5-9), because if they don't have a good signature physical electric move: they are dead on arrival
Lopunny moment.
Lopunny was never exactly good, but then it lost every move it had that let it kinda scrape by as a low tier mon.
Now it exists entirely to Trick Assault Vests.
Poor thing
6:02 "If [Regieleki] existed in a generation with just hidden power... It'd likely be one of the most terrifying pokemon around." HOME's coming in a few days, and Regieleki gets Tera Blast, so we'll see just how devastating it is soon.
An 80 base power move coming from 100 base attack/special attack might be just enough to deal with its counters especialy considering it will get stab when terra.
@@milonchello1643Plus boosts like Choice Band/Specs, Life Orb, Expert Belt
@@milonchello1643 If that thing goes Ice then it essentially has Bolt/Beam, which with STAB on both, Transistor and the highest speed in the game makes it rather scary.
@@milonchello1643 you’re forgetting about transistor, which is basically a free choice specs
If it appeared in Gen 3 alongside Regidrago, it would have Clear Body as its ability and a more varied movepool, as Gen 8 made weird movepool choices. All the Regis know punching moves, Rock Slide, Thunderbolt, Earthquake, Superpower and Flash Cannon. Regieleki does get Electric STAB but not the others, while Regidrago JUST got Earthquake and Earth Power.
Snorlax and flareon desperately needing that one move reminds me of black kyurem needing a reliable physical ice move. Black kyurem is an honourable mention of the flareon theorem imo
then in Gen 8 it got icicle spear and got sent back to whence it came
Black Kyurem does have Physical Ice STAB now at least though. It's another Scizor at this point.
I feel like Butterfree, Ribombee, and Vivillon apply to this discussion as well. All three have access to quiver dance/sleep powder and would be awful without it. Ribombee has a strong hazard in sticky web, and the two butterflies can go for sash sweeper or a sub/sleep/stab/dance set. All three have a niche, and only because of their movepools.
Venomoth especially applies here as Quiver Dance lets it be a special sweeper of sorts. One that can one-shot the likes of Metagross.
compoundeyes sleep powder in the case of butterfree and vivillon, essentially turning it into spore-lite
Butterfree also has increased accuracy and with Quick Claw it can easily tear through teams if not watched.
@@sibernout7717 quick claw + qd is not great combo. Also butterfree is a worse vivillon unless its tinted lens even then it faces competition from Venomoth.
@@indiradevi6217 Quick Claw + Sleep Powder easily makes it take out many mons if the Quick Claw activates and with it's ability it's basically impossible for Butterfree to miss Sleep Powder.
My movepool for Butterfree is:
1. Sleep Powder
2. Dream Eater
3. Quiver Dance / Air Slash
4. Bug Buzz
I’m loving this series so much. Can we get a Slaking theorem for abilities? Or like a [comment section help me out] theorem for Pokémon who may have excellent roles but the meta game doesn’t care about that role
Sableye theory?
The opposite of that would be gastrodon, it is a combination of all of its traits like stats, movepool and ability though
Regigigas Theorem
say what you will about Truant, Slow Start makes the titan weaker than actual baby pokemon
we don’t need any more. the videos are getting really abstract now. like, yeah, of course snorlax would be better if it had slack off. the same could be said if you gave porygon-z boomburst or regieleki ice beam. what if we gave arceus population bomb? or giratina both recover AND rage fist? they’d be better.
it starts to become meaningless. the stat videos worked better because at least stats cannot be discussed without the pokémon’s other traits - as said in this video, a pokémon with the best of any given stat in the game is terrible if it can’t do anything once it hits the field, or has a typing that actively works against its role.
similarly, a pokémon with quite literally every move in the game does nothing if it has no stats. smeargle has the grace of 70 base speed but i guarantee you if it was 10, it’d probably NEVER see use. and i get that saying that is hypocritical - in fact it’s my exact point. stripping a mon down to its base properties like abilities or moves or even stats and looking at those in a vacuum takes away its identity and renders any and all discussion about a pokémon mute.
@@SuperEljafru smeargle with base 10 speed would be the god of trick room lol
It might be interesting to make a video about how some of these rules are completely flipped on their head in doubles. Stuff like super high speed pokemon with other bad stats are a lot worse in doubles, meanwhile something like Regieleki was absolutely dominant in VGC (granted it's movepool is better for VGC than singles)
The Format Theorem, if you will
Call it an Idiot's Guide to VGC if you will
All eevees could be competitively viable by either flipping one of its base stats, or giving it a better movepool. Even now with its current moves, if flareons speed and spdef flipped, it would be at the very least a good niche.
Jolteon has clam mind now, but imagine if it had it in dp or earlier!
Espeon already has a good movepool due to psychic types, for some reason, inherently gaining access to broader type coverage. But the rest are neutered by Eevee's base form being as vanilla as possible that you can't even pass the unique moves its evolutions learn as egg moves to another form like you can with Tyrouge.
Vaporeon’s coverage is nearly great but needs super effective coverage against Water types, Glaceon needs strong Water or Ground coverage that is not Water Pulse or Mud Shot, Sylveon needs Mystical Fire again and Espeon like what D-Havoc said got coverage over the generations but needs super effective coverage against Steel types. All the others… yeah they have bad coverage. I’m not even mentioning Tera Blast for solutions.
@@D-Havoc Espeon's issue is that its ability, magic boune is much better suited for hatterene, a bulky pokemon with healing. It would be much better with an offensive ability, because otherwise there are just better psychic type spatkers in the game
@@astralnova10 Well Espeon is an older Pokémon, and there were fewer Magic Bounce Pokémon back then. So that ability made it an OU staple for years. Giving an otherwise Offensive Pokémon a Defensive ability isn't unheard of, just look at Rough Skin Garchomp.
Yah wanna know what makes Flareon's move pool even more annoying? In lgpe, one of the special partner eevee tutor moves, is a powerful, physical fire type move that doesn't do recoil, and has a 100% chance to burn. If they gave Flareon that move, yeah it wouldn't be ou material, but it could at least do something in the lower tiers.
if that move was to exist again, likely the burn chance would be nerfed to probably 20-30%,
That sounds Baddy Bad
Honestly, all of the Eeveelutions should have gotten those respective exclusive moves in later installments. Such a missed opportunity that would benefit every one of them in some way.
@cesarflamenco9484 Eh, they'd have to tweak some of them for the eeveelutions better offensive stat, but besides that they'd be amazing (Especially things like Umbreon, which sets up reflect to help take strong fighting moves)
Honorable mention to Blacephalon: it’s lack of good attacking moves make it a one trick pony, but it makes up for it with a good offensive typing and sheer speed & firepower.
Perhaps we could get a "Wild Charge Theorem:" or how Pokemon of certain types (like Electric, Rock and Fire) without a useful signature move being unviable/less viable because their preferred method of attack either has really risky moves (Physical Fire types relying on Flare Blitz and its nasty recoil), very few viable moves which simply might not appear in their moveset (if a Special-attacking Rock type lacks Power Gem . . .) or both (the many Physical Electric types stuck with Wild Charge and only Wild Charge).
They only just now actually give Power Gem to most of the Rock-types that never had it before until now
Now the question is, will the likes of Omastar and Aurorus return in the S/V DLC and thus finally get STAB Power Gem for the first time?
Electivire is a great example of this. There's no reason it shouldn't have Plasma Fists
Would be good if you show de " the pachirisu theorem", how the envirement of the meta can make a bad pokémon become good
That's just a variation of the Quagmire theorum
@@DarkenedAuras7653 wrong show
I agree
this is literally every pokémon, or pretty close to it. there is a near-infinite number of possible formats, of course mons are unexpectedly good/bad in some of them.
This could be called the Articuno theorem, because for some reason Articuno was viable as a cleric and water/grass/dragon wall in Generation 8 UU for some reason.
I'd like to add in the curious case of Contrary Lurantis.
In its debut generation, Lurantis didn't have a lot going for it. A pure grass type with a relatively subpar move pool (although it makes for a good Torkoal partner). A pretty pokemon for sure, but not a pretty good pokemon.
Funnily enough tho, Lurantis was also given Contrary as a hidden ability. As a physical attacker this is great, since it never needs to worry about intimidate or other stat reductions, and most contrary pokemon get a stat reducing move that matches their main attacking stat. Not Lurantis though. It got Leaf Storm. A great move, but definitely was not good on Lurantis.
After its generation came and went, it was brought back into Sword and Shield where it was able to flourish. It was given the move Superpower, which as many know, lowers the users' attack and defense. It was perfect for Lurantis, and while it still didn't see a lot of play, it at least gained a second niche as a Trick Room Attacker.
Then Scarlet and Violet came, where they took away Superpower, bringing Lurantis back down to where it started, albeit in a much stronger game.
Eh Pokemon with hidden abilities are impossible to obtain without hacking anyway.
@@JaelinBezel what kind of bone headed comment is this? That's completely incorrect. Either you treat the game like pokemon go and catch pokemon until you get one that has a hidden ability or you use an Ability Patch, WHICH TURNS YOUR ABILITY INTO THE HIDDEN ABILITY.
@@NathanTruby i just play Pokémon. Doing Soulsilver right now. I’ve never heard of Ability Patch. Is that an item?
Considering you can’t catch Pokémon with hidden abilities why would i bother catching a lot to try to find one?
Also I’ve never played Pokémon GO.
@@JaelinBezel fair enough, i shouldn't have come at you like that. Soulsilver pokemon don't have hidden abilities. It wouldn't be until pokemon black and white that pokemon would gain hidden abilities. The ability patch is an item from generation 8 (sword and shield) and has existed since.
You can catch pokemon with hidden abilities out in the wild from gen 6 and onwards, but its generally easier to get it from a games encounter gimmick like Horde Encounters in Gen 6, SOS battles in Gen 7, etc.
Don't play pokemon go, it's fun at first but can quickly become a grind.
@@NathanTruby i’m too rural for Pokémon GO (and I’m against putting any games on my phone for some reason) but I’ve been playing since Generation 1 and I own physical cartridges of at least one mainline game from every generation except 1 (I lost them a long long time ago).
My mainline games are:
Silver & Crystal
Emerald and FireRed
Platinum & SoulSilver
White and VoltWhite 2 (Which I’ve beaten! That romhack is fucking hard and I’m very proud!)
Both X & Y and OmegaRuby
Moon & UltraSun
Sword, Legends Arceus, and Shining Pearl
Scarlet.
I like to replay my Pokémon games a lot and which one just depends. I think i play through Moon and UltraSun the most often though.
I’d like to thank you for this series, it’s helping me understand what competitive pokemon is in a more digestible format for me, like focusing more on the applications of why things matter could be super helpful I think
Shocked you didnt mention Kyurem Black, I thought that was a good example of a victim of the Flareon Theorum
I love this could be renamed "the RBY theorem". Also, you should do a video about those Pokémon with a tiny movepool but just the right moves to make them good.
so true, RBY movesets are awful lmaooooooo
With all of these new theorems running around, I wonder if we'll get a "Has nearly everything to be good, but ONE specific thing causes it to be shot down from great." kind of Theorem. A Slaking Theorem, perhaps? Plus, it's been a while, so it'd be nice to reference the Slaking & Gigas videos again.
That's just called having an Achilles's heel.
@@sleepparalysisatthewheel5101 It is. But I wanted it to be conistent with the previous "Theorems" and Slaking felt the most appropriate.
Seems like all the Eeveelutions have thin movepools, but some are more affected by it than others, & Umbreon is also majorly affected by it in a different way than is Flareon. Might a video on the effect of set damage or similarly consistent damage moves on competitives be a good theme at some point?
I love the thumbnails. Always top tier.
Smeargle has always been a weird case. Its stats suck ass with a straw, but it can do so many sick things with his movepool... even causing Dark Void's nerf, poor Darkrai 😢
Imagine if Flareon got Drought or Sheer Force, followed by the move Wild Charge which goes with the theme of high power moves with drawbacks (Such as Flare Blitz, Superpower, Double-Edge, etc). Suddenly you got a much more interesting pokémon. From a doubles perspective it's basically just a support outclassed by other supports or a turn one surprise in slower metas if you go for a Jolly Scarf set only for it to be walled the next turn. Crunch or High Horsepower would also be interesting but it wouldn't go with the theme of the good moves Flareon currently has.
Flareon already learns bite so it should 100% have crunch
I think all eeveelutions should have a hidden ability equivalent to pixilate
, that could help flareon with stab double edge and trump card
Possible ideas for future theorems:
Why abilities are sometimes everything: The Slaking theorem
Why typing is almost everything: The avalugg/aurorus/iron thorns theorem
Why availability is sometimes everything: The pachirisu theorem
Why balanced stats are not everything: The lucario theorem (this one being about how mixed attackers, pokemon with average stats all around, etc, are not as good as those with unbalanced stats towards a niche)
If you do an Ability Theorem, Clefable will show up AGAIN. This mon is just a perfect case study on what does and doesn't make a mon viable.
That regieleki spot is a lot funnier now, you absolutely called it. Gen IX's gimmick tera offering essentially Hidden Power with tera blast. It took one day for boltbeam regieleki to get banned.
A moment of silence to all physical electric types without signature moves(bolt strike, double shock, plasma fist etc). When your type's best options for physical damage is wild charge and thunder punch....
Alolan Golem is REEing all the way back on Sun and Moon.
they should give bolt tackle(i think it's pikachu's signature move) to other pokemon. Why can a lot of fire pokemon have a 120 physical move but not electrick ones?(both types were special before the shift)
Look mom I made it!
That aside, I'm enjoying this series thus far. Can't wait to see the other "theorems" that everybody's been suggesting in the comments lol
The fire type move! The physical fire type move is real!!
I appreciate a lot the fact that you read the comments and made videos about each topic that was requested :D
Dang, you guys are popping off with these Theorem videos. These have been great to help explain various nuances of the Pokemon competitive scene to my friends that don't actually play it themselves.
Why a good ability is everything: The Shedinja Theorem
I feel like it'd be better called the sableye theorem
I know that it may be a weird pick, but Zamazenta having an excellent defense stat, an ability that further boosts it and in the gen that introduced a fighting type move that uses the user's defense stat to deal damage, but for some reason, they decided that Zamazenta shouldn't have Body Press in gen 8.
Right? They finally gave it body press for gen 9b
Still doesn't have reliable recovery to last since crowned can't use rest+chesto or leftovers since it's item slots taken for the form or a good move to compliment its defense like Kings Shield
Zacian is a spoiled mf
@@NarumiButterfly Okay, why is that a dealbreaker if it’s mostly offensive?
@@skeetermania3202 because it's not meant to be mainly offensive to do that is just playing with a worse Zacian in terms of moveset and attack stat (130 vs 170)
Zamazenta is supposed to be a wall to stall and wear down with its very good defense stat but can't really do anything to achieve that with its terrible movepool so you're just carrying deadweight
Meanwhile Zacian has lots of good moves to take advantage of its attack stat, coverage, and the best typing it could ask for
@@NarumiButterfly What’s wrong with lack of reliable recovery as just a general flaw to take advantage of?
I want the "blissey theorem" where health can mean everything or nothing in viability.
That's kinda was already covered in bastiodon theorem
Maximising huggability: Solving the Flareon theorem
My favorite part is how I saw the comment in the last video, then it became this video! Way to appreciate your community!!
These thumbnails just keep getting better and better LMAO
FSG: Regieleki would be terrifying with hidden power.
SV: You are 100% correct. In fact, I'll do you one better.
You should do a why typing isn’t everything: The Tyranitar theorem
Ideas:
1) Why abilities are everything - the Pelliper theorem
2) Why a bad defensive typing isn't neccesarilly nothing - the Tyranitar theorem
3) Why HP isn't everything - the Guzzlord theorem
Got so caught off guard with that Clerks reference.
And here I was thinking I was watching children's programming.
Why did almost every Grass-type Pokémon up to Gen 6-7 have movepools entirely consisting of Grass moves, Normal moves, Toxic, and Sunny Day? It was really lame.
but hey, at least Venusaur and Abomasnow got Earth Power last gen, and they made sure to give Arboliva Earth Power and Dazzling Gleam (and they made sure to give Rillaboom Superpower and High Horsepower last gen too, but it lost both of those.......for now)
I remember when I first got into smogon battles on pkm showdown I was looking through pokemon on serebii to build a team and I saw how flareon had such an insane attack stat. I was thinking " how do I never see this pokemon?". Then I look at the move pool and I was stunned that flareon didn't learn flare blitz.
Just a look at the stats and you can see why it's not good. Even if it had Flareblitz, Wildcharge, Close combat back then, it'd still be a frail and slow fire type.
If Flareon ever got a fire type version of Quick Attack, it might find some success.
BKC really saw an opportunity to further rent about ADV Snorlax and ran with it lmfao excellent video as always, thanks FSG crew!
This is one of the best thumbnails ive seen on youtube
THE MOVEPOOLS! THE MOVEPOOLS IS REAAAALLL!
CAN WE GET MUCH HIGHER??
Typhlosion finally has 4 different typed moves he can finally run on one set, without counting focus miss ofc. He still obviously needs earth power and scald tho, like he’s literally a volcano
So many times I ignored Clefairy until the first time I caught one and realised with one I could plug pretty much any gap in my team. Aerodactyl in gen 1 & 2 had great stats but awful moves. In gen 3 I actually really like using it.
Cant wait for the 'Nothing Truly Matters; A Missingno Theorem', stating that no matter how your Pokemon are or how well you play, RNG will screw you over one way or the other (Documentary on Will-o-miss and other such shenanigans)
I'm really loving this new series. It's a fresh take on your analysis you did for Pokemon. Looking forward to what you cover next.
Houndstone being Uber thanks to one move and untired without it 💀
it really needs Poltergeist right now
I think klinklang could also be a good example of this. Its stats spread are surprisingly good, but since the coverage moves it has were wild charge and normal move, it is not as optimal as those with more coverage.
that Clerks reference lol
there's been a Steam group for years called "The Petition Against Flareon Uselessness".. it's sad that it never worked out, but we've been faithful to her this whole time.
That thumbnail art is hilarious. I swear, Gamefreak just hates poor poor Flareon.
One thing that I think should have been mentioned was that Mew's high equal stats and massive movepool meant that if someone sent it out, you had no way of telling what role it filled until after it moved.
It should've been called Scizor theorem, it has a demonstration of how moveset is everything in Gen 3 BAD once it got a moveset it turned into an always strong good pokemon
I'd have put Gen 2 Umbreon on this list, due to the combination of Mean Look and BP. Not a story of movepools being lacking, but of how having a distinct movepool gives it a strong niche.
You could pretty much put like 80% of the gen 2 roster on this list lol.
@@MrZahsome yanma n sneasel come to mind, no stab for the first, and the stab on the second are both on types that use its weaker offensive stat
Its not that supricing really when u think about it why Snorlax hasent been given Slack off. While there are some pokemon that was given the move and were lazy, Snorlax whole theme is the fact that its constantly sleeping and nothing other then a Pokeflute can wake it up. That means forcing the player to only ever have the option of using Rest and make sure that Snorlax always sleeps.
Great video! This is so true. There are some Pokémon that just have such a wide movepool, that you can have some really unique builds and strategies.
I'm not as familiar with the more modern movepools, but I remember back in earlier generations some Pokémon were crippled by their movepools (or there was only one viable moveset). The physical/special split actually benefited a number of Pokémon in Gen 4. Although, of course, there were Pokémon on the opposite end of the spectrum like Nidoking who could learn a crazy amount of moves.
The chopper-flareon edit is CRAZY
*THE OOOOOONE PIEEEEEECE*
This video is a 10/10 on the thumbnail alone
Dusknoir has a great movepool, Ice Punch is perfect for dealing with all those pesky Lando-T's
it doesn’t have a good support movepool tho. supposed to be a wall but lacks the tools to support the team with it’s utility. it’s essentially a momentum killer
Aside from what Nas said, its base 100 attack, which isn’t bad, isn’t groundbreaking enough and it has a horrible HP stat to take advantage of taking hits. And it’s slow.
That thumbnail, I can feel the frustration from here 🤣
From mon design to base stats to move pools, the design choices have always been dubious.
And a lot of Gen 1 Pokemon get the benefit of having rather ridiculous move pools that probably never would have happened had they been introduced a few generations later. Who really believes that Nidoking would have gotten Fire Blast, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt had it been introduced in Gen 3 or 4? Or the oddity that the Nidos and Rydon get access to Surf despite it making little sense?
Fun fact : pretty much every mon made during the era of Kaiju mons (the first one) during RG dev was given a ridiculous movepool.
We need the charizard theorem why popularity isn’t everything
Pikachu theorem is probably a better name since Charizard is pretty good in the low tiers and in OU and Ubers with the megas evos.
Who else would be in it? Popular Pokemon are usually popular partly because they are good.
@@PatchesNjose I thought of a couple:
Gardevoir - out classed by Lele and later Hatterene, even when she had the mega; and before she became a Fairy was kinda ass
Lucario - power crept without the mega
Most Eeveelutions - possibly among the most bland and generic movepools you could think of, aside from maybe Umbreon
Blastoise - was waiting for Shell Smash for 4 gens since the moves existence, and by then too later too late
Ampharos - never gets Tail Glow (when the move existed) or anything super note-worthy (like a new ability like Electric Surge)
Sceptile - wasted movepool on it's lower 85 Atk vs 105 Sp. Atk with little to no movepool
Flygon - poor man's Garchomp, that's it
Milotic - movepool has gone stale since Gen 5
OG Zoroark - Illusion ability came at the wrong gen
Infernape - power crept, and even in Gen 4 eventually fell off in OU once the metagame adapted
Tinkaton - 75 Atk, no Huge Power, and no Thick Club held-item equivalent for it's line
Decidueye - 70 Spe and only has Long Reach for HA
Luxray - 70 Spe, no reliable STAB movepool, and mediocre movepool with mostly bite moves but without Strong Jaw or at least Tough Claws
Mimikyu - 90 Atk, and even when it's ability got nerfed in Gen 8 if still never got STAB Poltergeist (cause GF was scared it would make it overpowered, even when they already nerfed it's ability)
Most pseudo-legendaries get away scout free, just by nature.............except K-Goodra and nowadays Metagross without the mega (the lose of it's Dark and Ghost neutralities alongside power-creep and the Explosion nerf made it a liability in singles, again without the Mega)
@@goGothitaLOL Nice choices!
We need why abilities are everything
The Regigigas Theorem
@@rayqcina4869politoed theorem
Nitpicky idea, but if the title were 'Why abilities *Might* be everything' instead then the video could also talk about squakabilly, a pokemon with an amazing ability, but is still overall bad.
Next up is the Slaking theorem, where a good ability means a lot.
Where an ability means a lot.
Smeargle is genuinely the perfect inverse of Flareon theorem given how Having Access To Every Move At Once is so powerful that it ends up in Ubers every nanosecond it's legal because of how it's perfect for role filling whatever a team might need
The fact Flareon has a higher attack stat then Gyarados but nothing to show for it.