The Most Controversial Strategy in Singles
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- Install Raid for Free ✅ IOS/ANDROID/PC: clcr.me/FalseSwipe_Oct22 and get a special starter pack 💥 Available only for the next 30 days!
In today's large video, we will be discussing single's most controversial strategy! The dreaded Baton Pass!
Music:
Mind Games - Ben Elson
Route 30 - HGSS OST
Dark Cave - HGSS OST
Miror B's Retro Grove - Colosseum OST
Miror B Battle - XD Gale of Darkness OST
Route 225 Diamond and Pearl Remix - Mewmore
• Mewmore // Route 225 (...
Route 10 - Pokemon BW - Smash. Ultimate OST
The Official False Swipe Gaming Twitter:
/ falseswipeg
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
2:33 - Why Baton Pass is Hated
6:11 - Example of "Honest" Baton Pass
8:47 - Gen 2's "Cheap" Baton Pass
10:23 - Gen 3 - When Baton Pass REALLY Took Off
15:47 - The Full Chain
21:58 - DPP/Gen 4
26:26 - BW/Gen 5
30:15 - XY/Gen 6
32:24 - The Rest
33:53 - Outro
Directed by Kellen
/ kellen_fsg
Follow Me On Twitch!: / kellen_fsg
Written By
Kevin aka BKC
His Channel: ua-cam.com/channels/uFJ.html...
This Bread Needs More Jam: ua-cam.com/channels/z9r.html...
Edited By
Connor Nguyen aka CDK
Follow Him: / cdk_1989
Thumbnail: / dustythesnowman
VFX Intro By
Ryan Gonzales
ryangonzalesfilmmaker.weebly....
Sound Designed by
Ryan Gonzales
Game Capture Artist:
DarkMusician
Follow Him: / of_darkmusician
Songs Used (List of ALL Songs used for this series. Some may or may not make it into the video):
docs.google.com/document/d/1H...
My Twitter:
/ kellen_fsg
Resources and Historical References
History of Rule Variants: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wik...
Smogon University:
www.smogon.com/
Maikiri
/ nbmakiri
Aaron Cybertron Zheng:
/ cybertronvgc
Pokeaim
/ joeypokeaim
Pokemon Battle Historia:
pokemon.s20.xrea.com/
Nintendo Cup 2000 Team Construction:
pokemon.s20.xrea.com/2nd/const...
Nintendo Cup 2000 Tier List:
pokemon.s20.xrea.com/2nd/2000/
Pokemon Japanese Battle Wiki:
wiki.xn--rckteqa2e.com/wiki/%E...
Sprites From:
www.spriters-resource.com/
pldh.net/dex/sprites/index - Ігри
Install Raid for Free ✅ IOS/ANDROID/PC: clcr.me/FalseSwipe_Oct22 and get a special starter pack 💥 Available only for the next 30 days!
*No.*
Nein
@@Pigggles Ten
please please
yall really struggling out here arent you
Baton Pass strats are either really satisfying when you do them or absolutely miserable once the opponent uses them
Beating them was satisfying too.
@@user1raf Like using a max speed choice scarfed malamar to topsy turvy it.
@@shekkie i once used espeon with psych up on a max boosted volcarona. Outsped and ko'd it with stored power. His salt was delicious.
Its even more satisfying to effortlessly beating them
Being on the wrong end of a baton pass sweep is like losing at Monopoly: you know you're screwed long before you actually lose, and you have to sit there helplessly and watch as your opponent gleefully finishes you off.
Man, I remember when people brushed off full Baton Pass chains as an unviable gimmick. Also, Zapdos only gets Baton Pass because of XD, amazing how a spinoff-exclusive move did so much.
I remember as a kid I read about Baton Pass in the FR/LG strategy guide and thought that was the stupidest move ever. How I've learned
Another example of XD exclusive moves being good, Magmar got follow me I think. Somewhere in Gen V VGC, someone transferred a Magmar because of the move + flame body; I want to say it was a big name, can't remember; pretty sure in how good was Magmar/Magmortor video it's mentioned.
I rose to the top of the smogon charts during the time when baton pass was considered a gimmick. I realized the strat was WAY better if you nixed the reciever Pokemon and just had 6 Pokemon that would chain boosts to each other. Good times!
@@kittyspartan143 Yeah I think part of why people brushed it off was teams used to use something like Octillery or Cradily as the "recipient", just because of Suction Cups.
@@magicball3201 Some Pokemon got lucky and got really good XD exclusive moves. The ones that got Helping Hand were also nice as back then it wasn't a tutor move. Sadly most got stuck with Refresh.
"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." - Sid Meier (creator of the Civilization series). That quote is universal in gaming and definitely applies to Competitive Baton Pass teams
I imagine the people that used these strategies would argue that winning is fun. And would probably bring up the old idiom that all's fair in love and war.
I imagine said people are boring dickheads @@thesacredlobo
I just got my first culture victory on civ 6. Only took about 2 years hahaha.
@@thesacredlobowell, winning is fun. But the issue with the axiom is it shows a clean flaw in logic, because games are not war. The issue here is the assumption that because winning is fun you should ignore all other fun to win, and try to win in as simple and consistent a way as possible. This leads to the game being like a job and getting optimized around a way to win that is cheap and not fun for either player, and this style of gameplay for many makes even winning get boring as the game loses all other enjoyment in the pursuit of a cheap, hollow, victory that requires nothing more then time from both players.
@@jacksonhoiland2664 - "because games are not war."
To some they might as well be considering how many people are willing to cheat in order to win.
"The issue here is the assumption that because winning is fun you should ignore all other fun to win"
I imagine those employing this strategy on a regular basis really don't care about whether their opponent has fun or not. And for some people losing is so frustrating that it leads to them breaking their own property in frustration. There are more than a few videos on youtube of streamers losing their cool and smashing expensive keyboards and other devices.
" try to win in as simple and consistent a way as possible"
To be honest, I tend to prefer simple and consistent strategies since their less likely to fail. After all, a complicated strategy can go down the tubes rather easily. That's why it took me multiple tries to beat Whitney with just a level 17 Igglybuff and no items in Pokemon Gold. And yeah, there is footage of that on my channel if your interested. And the plan there wasn't even that complicated.
"This leads to the game being like a job and getting optimized around a way to win that is cheap and not fun for either player,"
I don't know. The basic plan I have for certain games never really changes, but I still enjoy the build up phase to becoming unstoppable in stuff like Rome: Total War or Seven Kingdoms: Ancient Adversaries or the DS port of Legion that has the logo for the History channel stamped on it.
About the only time I've found a simple plan boring is in those Yu-Gi-Oh! simulation games where I'd sometimes run inconsistent FTK strats. And that's because those decks just boil down to me basically playing solitaire until I win. Assuming I had the right cards in my hand to do so.
Side Note: I only used these decks against the AI. So at least I was only frustrating myself.
You reference it so much in other videos, that I want to see one on Power Creep as a whole. What caused it, how it invalidated hundreds of Pokémon, and what old Pokémon did to keep up with it sounds like a really interesting topic to me.
EDIT: I'd like to think I had a hand in this becoming reality.
It’d be interesting how Pokémon like Jolteon, Celebi and Starmie be examples of this, since they used to be in higher tiers but they’re in like NU-PU at this point.
Its just how long running series get
I feel like this is a really vague topic so it would probably need a few videos about different aspects of power creep or something
So many things cause power creep that it could be a whole series
My favorite pokemon move, Power Creep
Belly Drum passing to Exploud with its Soundproof was one of the most terrifying ways to turn an NU Pokemon into something that makes Swords Dance Rayquaza look average in comparison.
Lets’s not get carried away now
Well, now i know why Zapdos, Ninjask, Smeargal, Celebi & mawhile were placed on the thumbnail as the 5 pieces of Exodia
Did they mention mawhile at all?
Ohhhh, just hit on me that was the reference in the thumbnail! Glad you noticed!
@@jaschabull2365 yah i glad he did that and exdioa in master duel is is basicly batton pass that in my meta decks like sworrd soul i run burn cards that can get past it or in flloo i run earthbound immortls to basic do the same thing with direct atttackers
Back when playing Gen4, I only saw the move's animation when an opponent used it, and thought to myself: "Why would you waste a move slot on switching out?!"
Oh boi...
Gen 4 Ubers has probably the nicest and most helpful playerbase out of any tier on Showdown in my experience, because the people just reallly enjoy the tier and think that the metagame is cool, as do I. Which is why I was extremely surprised to see somebody getting absolutely cursed out for running double dance pass mew into dialga when I was just randomly spectating a game one day. It shows how hated BP is when all the Dracos in the world won't get you yelled at but one small pink cat will get you absolutely flamed.
oh my GOD-- i love that story
Because the Dragons are expected by the Ubers player base. Baton pass takes away the main form of counter play to boosting Pokemon.
Not a Mouse?
Gen 4 was like balance of everything
Power
defense
Priority moves
Hazards
Setup
Perfect generation in my opinion
@@vasimbelim I wouldn't call the generation that introduced stealth rock "perfect". I liked it a lot overall, but SR is just ridiculous and should just cease existing.
It's fascinating on how a single move has become so infamous, that no one ever wanted it used ever again.
I can hear stealth rocks nervously chuckling in the back.
@@trevorweisberg8470 stealth rocks should have been banned waay long ago.
@@irocklalot Disagree. Singles 6v6 battles are long as is
@@irocklalot The only problem stealth rocks make are quadruple weak mons requiring full on teams that are anti hazard, hdb removed that but made stall mons worse. another reason why we need them, stall is already fat as it is, atleast make it take chip every turn they switch (which is 95% of their turns). So yeah, they are not that bad, actually good thing in high level competitive scene
That no one at smogon wanted it used ever again*.
Smogon only represents a tiny minority, they're simply the most smooth brained autists out there.
You could say that everytime Baton Pass got "neutered", it just Baton passed to a new Pokemon capable of abusing the new "neutered" BP Strategy.
I’m liking more of these videos where they analyze specific moves or themes. Not saying I don’t enjoy the “How GOOD was x ACTUALLY” videos, but they bring more variety.
Speaking of Baton Pass, it is the first pivoting move and it makes sense as to why it got more restricted in later gens, due to more Pokemon having access to stat boosting moves.
I kinda like these diverse vids
Me too but i hope they dont stop the "How Good X was", i wish they at least cover all Gen 1-5 mons
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 Waiting for all the Gen 2 videos to be done. There are a few left, and like to have Girafarig done next year.
@@IgnitedQuils I'd personally prefer a girafarig mid scarlet and violet
@@IgnitedQuils I think it would be better to wait for Gen 9 for the Girafarig episode since it is getting a Evolution
Smogon Community: “You don’t fight with honor!”
Passer: “No, he did.” *points to a meteor mashed trainer*
Excellent Game of Thrones reference 👌🏼
Smogon is synonym with "fighting with no honour".
@@RandalfElVikingo smogon when pokemon is destroying whole OU: i sleep
Smogon when light breeze touches their perfect stall teams: BAN IT TO UBERS, BAN IT NOW
@@The_Moodi I cant belive the meme that smogon is out here to ruin your fun and only loves stall is still around. Somehow it never dies out among lower ranked players. I guess its an easy scapegoat.
@@ThePe5e well
After 10 games wich 7 contained stall i can see that the meme yet still is relevant.
Its crazy how the most broken ability of all time, Moody, pairs perfectly with Baton Pass aka the most broken move of all time
Give a white herb to the recipient and you are good to go
@@petelee2477 lol imagine its unburden too
Moody isn't the most broken ability, that title goes to Shadow Tag
@@Ray-bb5dj Shadow tag was allowed in Ubers. It also wasn’t luck reliant and stall heavy.
@@Ray-bb5dj To argue anything other than Moody being the most broken ability is pure nonsense. Moody makes Glalie and Bidoof Uber mons youre talking nonsense. Shadow tag ain't even close
Can I just say that these new thumbnails great? Like the artstyle is really cool and it actually has to do with the video topic.
Dusty the Snowman is a superb artist!
THANKS LOL :D
The Legendary Exodia the Forbidden One 👹
Ahh the Baton Pass.
Thought it would be covered in the "How GOOD was Ninjask Actually?" video, but yeah, makes sense to see the full history of Baton Pass!
He mentioned in the gen III section he DID cover it in detail for Ninjask's video, especially gen III's version of full chain. Although that focused more on how ninjask started the loop and avoided dying then full chain effectiveness
They also covered it in the Mr Mime one. Really they've discussed it to death at this point.
Fun fact: in gen 3, when smeargle was first banned from using baton pass, people started using assist of all things. Since every mon on your team has a boosting move or sub/protect, assist was actually able to carry the chain since you call baton pass 50% of the time, and dont really risk anything the other 50%, which made it even more frustrating to both use and face
I was surprised to see Assist banned in gen 5.
@@ShinyTillDawn That was a different Assist trick, namely DiveCats. Your team is Prankster Liepard with Assist and Lagging Tail and five Pokemon that only know moves that can't be called by Assist and two-turn moves like Dig, Fly, Dive, Shadow/Phantom Force etc. - moves that make you untargetable turn 1, then hit turn 2. When you use Assist, Prankster gives it priority because Assist is a status move, so it likely moves before its opponent gets a chance to attack, Assist calls a two-turn move, and Liepard becomes untargetable. Then turn 2, because you have a Lagging Tail and aren't using a status move, you'll go after any opponent that's not using a move with reduced priority, so you likely won't get hit on the second turn either. Rinse and repeat until your opponent's team is dead.
@@cyntheticconjurer dies to Surf, a niche move
@@ShinyTillDawnnot if I use Fly
Seems weird that everytime it was limited, the final nail in the coffin was a pokemon with Speed Boost... almost like that's an insanely busted ability when you have protect and substitute available lol
The fear and dread I felt when I saw that one of the pokemon insurgence's elite 4 uses a full baton pass chain will always stay with me
Agreed, one of my Pokemon I built specifically just to beat Kayla and was useless for the rest
I just use my Mega Gengar with Taunt TM to take care of them. Seeing half their team being useless against it is hilarious.
@@toannguyen1998 no one cares
@@g6iii i care, nerd
@@pyther5019 *no one who matters cares
As a mostly casual player, I always loved BP. I never did full BP chains though, usually 1 or 2 or with something like Ninjask. I understand why it was banned, but it was fun in low ELO!
I had a Lot and I mean a LOT of fun with sd BP mega blaziken in ubers until the fun police goons came knocking on My door
I feel that they took it too far, instead of banning the toxic elements they just banned it outright.
Ruined one of my favorite 6th Gen teams who had a Mega Lopunny with Baton Pass purely as a pivot move.
@@AceAviations2 Are you deaf or blind? Or both? Almost half the video was talking about trying to ban parts instead of the whole thing.
@AceAviations2 i mean lots of stipulations were made and then found to be too weak before a full ban was implemented
I was one of those honorable BP users back in gen 3-4, fighting the full chains was really annoying and unfun. Then once I saw Espeon getting Mirror Bounce I knew things were about to get really insane.
The Golden Era: Weather Wars, Baton Pass+Mirror Bounce and no Fairy.
@@RandalfElVikingo Then the Tapu's fairy nation attacked while toxapex done thing wich he was the best at: stalled everything while switching out to use regenerator.
@@RandalfElVikingo Amen, these were my favorite competitive times in Pokémon. I really dislike that weather isn't permanent from abilities now.
@@deltadevlin Yeah, what I loved the most is that anything was viable. I even used a Victrebeel in my sun team and it was fun. Also, people think Baton Pass was broken in that gen but that's why you use Prankster.
@@RandalfElVikingo That was the least fun meta EVER.
you guys doing the mock battles for the footage is so good. Thank you so much for showing the gameplay examples during the video, its way more entertaining and its exciting to imagine even playing some of these older titles competitively. I never had the chance to really play the comp. environments for GBC/GBA back in the day even though i played those games.
Aaaand now Cyclizar gets both Baton Pass and Substitute combined into a single move in the form of Shed Tail. Depending on what buff moves it gets it either sets up and sheds or sheds into a pokemon to set up.
Cyclizar could easily be slow and frail though in which case it might actually be a fair move.
@@TheMirksta
I sincerely doubt a Pokemon based off of a bike could ever be slow.
It passes Sub, but it's not confirmed to pass stats as well
@@TheMirksta it's pre-evo though, so it could use Eviolite for bulk
@@acemerceramv8561 ah yes Cyclizar who doesn't evolve into anything would surely be a good user of eviolite
Glad the wait was worth it. A surprise for Monday. I was about to polish my rock, but I will wait until after this video.
Until then: just Bide or Harden
Some Baton Passers have used Rock Polish, yes
I was about to drum my belly before this video came
5:37 that is the most scary thing I saw in my life, a snorlax jump kicking someone
I know that it might be too late, but I’d love to see a “How good was Gen 8 OU actually” video as a send off for this Gen. I think it would be interesting to look back at the new trends and strats that came from Gen 8.
How bad was gen 8 OU actually
There, fixed it
Three words. Heavy duty boots.
I really like this idea! Would be sweet~
YOU SEE THESE TIMBS MY BOI?
Personally I think we should wait for 2-3 years for any potential meta changes
Some missing info for Gen 8:
Baton Pass was legal until DLC 1 for Ubers, polteageist was the main passer mainly because it was immediately a threat in itself after a shell smash, so it could bank on the mindgame of having to attack that even full chain baton Pass teams feared it when nothing usually is immune to the combination of stored power and stab shadow ball. Even tyrannitar was not safe despite being the hardest counter since it would have to decide whether if polteageist was staying in to take a thunder wave, or just attack it and it'll pass to someone that resist rock blast / crunch.
It's main recepient was Galar-weezing since despite everything else being absurdly powerful when it received the boost, ditto was extremely common being the only best revenge killer around. Not only did it stopped imposter but also weather reliant abilities as well thanks to Neutralizing Gas
When HOME re-introduced some legendaries, lunala seem to be able to phase or blast Weezing into oblivion since it tanks one of its moves even with dynamax if it was specially bulky, but eventually Weezing started to run Shadow Ball over sludge wave because of that
Of course the other obscene factors were around and by the time Isle of Armor was released, Baton Pass was banned for reasons you can expect + polteageist being an absurd and efficient passer
Grammar
So? Does that matter when being coherent & context is much more important?
With the recent reveal of Farigiraf, I can only imagine how absolutely broken it could potentially be with Baton Pass and Cud Chew, using Petaya/Salac Berry as a potential free Nasty Plot/Agility boost without wasting a move slot, and just regaining boosts with Recycle.
Well baton pass would probably be banned long before that would be considered
@@ultimapower6950 True, but I'm mostly referring to in-game competitive formats.
Really hope they don't do the same thing with King's Rock because it's really only Cloyster that's abusing it to any sort of broken extent
Berries are actually strong items that they had to create a questionable ability to prevent their uses. I always thought unnerve could be useless but it might be broken since it prevents an entire class of held items.
There’s only like 10 competitive held items: leftovers, focus sash, choice items, weakness policy and on occasion some of those gimmicky ones. The rest are berries
@@munchrai6396 already banned in couple of gens
OU Mon: You can't defeat me.
*Uses Baton Pass.*
Smeargle: I know, but they can.
For anyone who isn't aware, the thumbnail is a reference to the five Exodia cards from Yugioh, that game's first and original instant win condition. Once you got all five pieces together, it was literally unstoppable.
My team comp’s sets have no attacks, Kaiba, but they do contain… the unstoppable Baton Pass!
IMPOSSIBLE
I love the art that you’ve guys been commissioning for the thumbnails, hope you continue to comm them in the future
Gorebyss and Huntail were Smashing and Passing over a decade before Markiplier
Well done once again! I am gonna keep suggesting this: what is in a role? What's a tank, what's a lead, what's a sweeper, what makes something good or bad? Have one for each role, make it into 1 big playlist at the end
This could be very useful in explaining particularly specific roles, like the difference between a wall breaker and a stall breaker!
@@ExcalibeonSwordofEeveelutions stallbreakers use disruptive tactics like Taunt, Trick+Choice item, Magic Bounce, Substitute, Poison Heal, Shed Skin, etc.. to deny the stall team from performing their usual defensive procedures. Wallbreakers just go unga-bunga and crush the walls with sheer power.
@@breloommaster12 conkeldurr go unga bunga flame orb guts 140 atk close combat on egg woman
I think it's important to mention one more thing in regards to Baton Pass in Gen 7: Eevee's Exclusive Z-Move, Extreme Evoboost.
Now, on its own, Extreme Evoboost is not really that big of a deal. +2 to every stat, but locked to a 1st stage Pokémon that doesn't have much coverage, it would likely be OHKOed before pulling it off, and it + Adaptability Last Resort is a gimmick at best. However, Eevee also had another trick up its sleeve: Baton Pass.
One would think that, since Baton Pass is banned to Ubers, and Eevee would die to a mere sneeze of a Legendary, it wouldn't do that much damage, right? ...right?
Now enter Krookodile and its signature move: Power Trip. Power Trip functions like Stored Power, but Dark-type and physical. The most Krookodile would accomplish with it is Rock Polish + Swords Dance, and using it in Ubers would get you laughed out of the tier. It just needed one element to go from joke to broke.
As you can imagine, Extreme Evoboost + Power Trip utterly wrecked Ubers. Anything that didn't die to _base 220_ STAB Power Trip, further boosted by Moxie, died to +2 STAB Earthquake. It was way too much to handle. Thus, Baton Pass became the first move, that wasn't Double Team or OHKO moves, to be banned to Anything Goes.
eeveepass was really weird in that it was simultaneously a noobtrap that could just lose the game on turn 1 if you didnt know what you were doing (since a lot of new players just tried to evoboost turn 1 when eevee was an abysmal lead that needed support from tailwind or paralysis) and also a broken strat that got the move banned from ubers
Whoever was the first one to run a BP team was an absolute genius
Its a shame that Dry Passing was a casualty of the ban. In gen 6, WishPass sylveon was used as a wonderful pivot, and pyukumuku in gen 7 got a lot of his viability destroyed without it. Maybe one day it may return, but I sincerely doubt it.
One easy fix is give all those mons drypass-like move
It’s true, it’s very sad.
Specs Espeon could pivot with it too.
@@nbassasin8092 A good idea, call it "Tag out" or something similar.
They took the ban too far, they should have banned it with deliberate stat boosts and trapping moves.
This way you can dry-pass freely or pass Substitutes, also moves with a low chance of boosting stats (Meteor Mash) wouldn't be banned due to the unreliable nature of the boosts.
I really enjoy these new style of videos! Keep up the great work!
Begone, bots.
Wish he'd make a playlist for these. Would be nice for some background noise, especially with the music from the games bringing back good memories - not sure who else played XD or Colosseum but they were really fun.
Gen 9: Okay, hear me out: Substitute, and Baton Pass. In one move.
I personally think "dry passing" should probably be allowed. It does the same thing U-Turn moves do, but without any chip damage (in return, you avoid Pursuit damage). You would just be forbidden from using moves, berries, or abilities that raise your stats on the Pokemon with BP. That should lock out the real problem, though it does make things more "complex" than just a straight BP ban.
As a kid, baton pass made no sense to me. “Why would I want to use a move to switch? I can do that anyway from the menu, lmao.”
Ninjask: "I Baton Pass!"
Opponent: "Please... No more..."
Celebi: "I'LL HYUCKIN DO IT AGAIN"
Looking at this, you should also do "How BROKEN was Dynamax actually?" Given the mechanic had some well warranted bans very fast almost akin to the issues Baton Pass has.
Loving this recent style of videos (on top of the regular stuff ofc)
Also the thumbnail art for these is amazing
I'd rather get baton passed 400 times in a row than ever deal with Para-fusion again in this life
this could be worse, you could be trapped, leech seeded, in bad climate and against an enemy trying to flinch
oh klefki
Serene grace dunsparce is the future
I remember discovering baton pass as a kid and sweeping my friends teams at school all the while thinking I was a Pokémon master
Video series idea: how each VGC season played out, which strategies dominated, how they changed as the season changed, how they influenced future mechanic changes, etc.
These types of videos are always my favourite on this channel. Hope you keep putting them out.
At first i didnt understand why the miniature had yu gi oh cards, but now i get it : advanced and onward BP works exactly like a yu gi oh combo deck ! It might explain why i love the concept so much
Exodia reference to be exact
With you guys putting so much effort into these “side vids”, I’d absolutely LOVE to see you continue the Type overview videos. Pretty sure ice was the only one that ever got it, and I’d like to see the history of how types performed throughout the generations
I like how in the beginning there was a sense of honor
I'm so happy to see you upload. I thought we had lost another week :(
Colosseum Miror B was really the high point of Pokemon game music
fax
Pokemon XD Miror B > Colosseum Miror B IMO
This reminds me of a card in yugioh called Mystic Mine. For those not familiar with the game, its a spell card you only need to draw to activate, that basically stops your opponent from using any monsters or attacking with monsters so long as you don't use any monsters yourself.
The thing is pretty much every deck in the game can only win by using monsters to deal damage directly. Also the answer most decks have to remove cards are monster effects, so there are a lot of situations where a player will simplify the game state to the point that they can stick a mystic mine down and then deck out the other player, since they would have gone through a lot of their deck in their turn one play and thus deck out first.
The thing is there's a lot of risk in doing that, because you can't advance your own game state yourself, for most decks, under mystic mine, because you gotta keep the monsters you control to 0 if you want to ensure it stays in affect. Also any competent player is only going to remove the mystic mine when they are in a position to win that turn, so if you try to deck someone out with the card you'll lose.
It becomes a game of chicken, because the person with the mine up has an incentive to play because the opponent is going to win when they have the out, but that also runs the risk of giving an out to the card in a situation the opponent couldn't have done so otherwise.
People found out however, that like baton pass you can optimize the strategy to make it unreasonable to play against. A normal deck using the card means you get into games of chicken where the moment to try to play is important and people have to consider a lot of other things. But you can run cards that protect mine and other flood gate traps that constrain what the opponent is able to do, and it ends up being a total pain to deal with. Not necessarily good, because there's a lot of set up needed to get into a place where you can lock down your opponent entirely, but its definitely not something people wanna have to deal with.
I love baton pass. It is an awesome strategic option to add to an otherwise viable team.
But, as noted in this video, teams built around it are just toxic in competition. Fun the first time or two but growing old, fast.
It’s not toxic if it gets them wins, it’s the toxic people who keep losing to them that makes them cry in protest to ban the move
@@Labyrinth6000 i dont think using BP or BP counter to avoid a instant lost with many teams being able to need many counters together is healthy to pokemon it is like to play single player story but if you dont use 6 specific mons you cant play the game it is toxic and uncompetitive
@@Labyrinth6000 If it pushes people away from playing, it is toxic to the game. And things like Baton Pass chains were definitely doing that because most people didn't find them fun or interesting.
That is why competitive format, tiers, and rulesets exist beyond the in-game rules, to ensure that most players enjoy the game and continue playing.
I was always curious why it got banned when I first found competitive Pokemon. I quickly found out while using Ninjask in a playthrough lol
It s a dumb strategy in game
It’s just a bunch of nerds who can’t strategize and win fights. I’ve seen people actually win against them and the opponents entire team falls apart once the chain was broken.
@@Labyrinth6000 Alright, I have a question. How do you go about countering a good Baton Pass team? Clearly you know how to shut it down.
@@Labyrinth6000 the big issue with fighting against Baton Pass is that matches can be decided by the teambuilding phase alone; the battle might as well be over if the defendant doesn't bring the right tech move. And even then it's not like Baton Pass teams can't respond against their counterplay since it's so telegraphed while they have a slew of options at their disposal. For example, your Haze Tapu Fini might just fail to stop the chain from going off anyway if it gets forced out by the Poison Jab Scolipede.
Really enjoying the alternative videos beyond the usual "How good was" series. Keep up the great work everyone at False Swipe Gaming!
Baton Pass really went a long way
From Cheesy and unreliable strategy to a game ending tactic with almost no counterplay.
I think baton pass is still a trash move
Haze?
@ haze not only has low distribution, but the Baton Pass team can very easily tech against popular Haze users due to the options they have. For example, Haze Tapu Fini cannot stop Poison Jab Scolipede from getting its Pass off, while Haze Toxapex either gets Taunted or does not deter Espeon from boosting up in its face anyway.
The thumbnail for this video is beyond perfect
I guess you can say it is appropriate to talk about Baton Pass now as it is very scary to deal with if those boosts are passed on.
Been loving this new type of content btw!
That snorlax was out for blood with that mega drop kick 3:24
It’s crazy how this move has so many ways to get used no matter how many bans and limits where put on it.
A lot of the bans were "no passing speed alongside another stat," but why not just "no passing speed, period?"
I was always waiting for a video on this
EDIT: I also would love to see a video on power creep too!
Making the thumbnail be pokemon on the format of yu-gi-oh cards makes is top teir trolling
I think once gen 9 comes out it would be cool to see a gen 8 retrospective for both VGC and smogon
Topsy Turvy: I have no such weakness.
Dude these thumbnails recently give me LIFE I love them 💕💕💖💖
Such a good thumbnail art. Had me chortling in an unladylike fashion.
I love that BKC writes these it's so neat
Thumbnail game on fleek today
I remember the first (and only) time I made a Baton Pass team. 12-year-old me had been playing a lot of VGC in Gen. V, and when I got to Gen. VI, I tried out Smogon singles. The literal first thing I discovered was Speed Boost Baton Pass Scolipede. I built a 3-Pokémon chain where Scolipede stacked up Speed and Defense boosts, passed to Drifblim for Special Defense and Substitute, then finally passed to Azumarill who would Belly Drum and sweep. It was totally unoptimized in terms of Baton Pass, but was still so unstoppable that I got bored of it and started building other teams.
Can you cover evasion boosting? Moves and abilities and the strategies revolving around them, as well as competitive (un)viability?
I don't know why, but Exodia looks different from what I remember.
Must be age catching up with me.
So controversial, a fan game, Pokemon Insurgence, has an elite four member basing their entire team around it.
Baton bass is trash
And even in a main game, BD/SP, another elite 4 member had a baton pass drifblim with unburden and minimize.
I love this channel. I realized how regularly I've been watching it. Thanks guys!!
Such a well done video. I've never been one to play Singles because of things like this, but it was fun learning about this side of competitive Pokemon.
Loving the quality of these videos
I always wondered why I never saw Baton Pass strats in competitive videos. This makes perfect sense
Ayo as a player that dabbles in both competitive Pokemon and YuGiOh, I LOVE this thumbnail
I like how Baton Pass is the equivalent to Yu-Gi-Oh’s Exodia: satisfying when it works, but needs a dedicated strategy to even work in the first place.
Funny thing about Exodia is that it's treated the opposite way as Baton Pass has been. Instead of players trying to protect its place in the metagame, they actually use it as a sort of warning system for the meta. If a card or strategy comes out that makes Exodia a viable meta deck, then that card is considered degenerate and will get banned or limited.
an interesting video would be the effect on terrain and maybe condition setting abilities in general (like drizzle or electric surge). it seems almost too powerful to get a free turn (that is both offensive and defensive) by doing the most defensive move of switching. even if the effect only lasts 5 or 8 turns
I was one of the first people to use Mean Look Baton Pass Umbreon all the way back in the GSC Advanced days.
:D You're all welcome.
good memories of gen 7 ag with some old friends where i ran some extreme evoboost - scolipede swords dance - drifblim minimize - darkrai sweep team and stomped
Love that while the pokemon are the pieces of exodia, they also have their own attributes that is or an equivalent to their type
That thumbnail is a work of art.
im loving these new thumbnails, really cool and unique art style!
Hey, I really like ur vids. When r u gonna make a video about eiscue or scrafty?
Baton Pass: The killer rabbit of tactics.
I thought the most controversial strategy was using Evasion moves or the Moody ability! Those kinds of things get insta−banned!
It’s why those abilities got banned, since they were usually tied with BP, other than boosting evasion.
Those aren’t controversial then if everyone agrees on the ban
Practically nobody disagrees with the idea that moody and evasion moves are un-competitive, but BP is way more controversial.
these new art works for the thumbnails R sooo good
Great video today! I’d really like to see a video on hidden power sometime In the future! How it changed over time and its impact on the meta. 💙👏
I don't really play competitive Pokemon or anything like that but these videos are are my favorite of your channel keep up the work👍
@Not gonna lie Thank you ive always wanted to Make Air Fryer Potato Wedges Easy and Simple
I can tell from the pic that it'll be BP-chain teams, but other controversial strats included FEAR, the FEAR/Hail stall teams with the clefairy line, DiveCats, and, only controversial for how weird but effective it was, ChainComp.
I remember back in Gen 4, Haydunn made a video where he swept ubers with a Weedle using a BP team.
Do you think a video on competitive sets that use very rare and typically bad natures would be good? like lax lando t in BW for example
I'm really liking the newer videos about general competitive pokemon, it's something most people on the channel would be interested in, whereas if someone didn't care about a specific pokemon, they might not watch the episode for the How Good Was Actually series.
I also think the thumbnails should be modernized somehow for the How Good Was Actually series, because they look outdated compared to the digital art thumbnails for these types of videos.
Of all of my college lectures of Earth Science or Film and Media, False Swipe Gaming is my favorite professor.
Mine too brandonplaysstuff, as fellow college students we understand
The thumbnail is sending me. I love that they used Card Games as a way to emphasize the 'combo' focus of the video. But Pokemon already has a TCG, and at some point, someone said 'No, Baton Pass is worse than anything the Pokemon TCG could make. It needs to look like something even more busted: Yu-Gi-Oh!'
I love these videos for the fact that we get to hear music from Pokémon Coliseum!