The Rise and Fall of the Arrowverse
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- In this episode of The Third Floor, Joe takes us through the history of the Arrowverse, and discusses why it eventually collapsed. Please remember to leave a comment and let us know what you think about the Arrowverse!
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I think the real problem was the old school TV format where they had to get 23 episodes. That format doesn't work for superheros in the long run and leads to less budget per episode and filler episodes. I think what could have made them successful is if they broke the show up into smaller shows with fewer episodes per season with more potential crossovers.
That seems to be a really popular opinion! It's funny we used to say the same thing when we watched it as a group. If only they shortened the seasons and spent more time on the quality rather than the quantity🤷♂️. Thanks for the comment!
I have to agree. Some of the filler episodes would annoy the sh*t outta me. I'd b like "dude, just get back to the main story/villain"... Now, some filler episodes can be good, but majority were just pitiful.
Facts, 13 episodes maximum and a higher budget for graphics
making a 10 episode season that had a singular focus wouldve benefited the arrow verse so much theres so mch filler that it just loses the attention of so many people
6 episode shows are trash. Disney and Netflix doing 6 episode shows doesn’t improve shit
Arrow had more godd seasons than bad. It is the best show of the the arrowverse
Completely agree, it's far and away the best for me!
Agreed. The only truly bad season was 4. 3 6 and 7 had its moments but the stories were to drawn out
Honestly I LOVED Legends of Tomorrow because for some reason it was just way more entertaining to me compared to some of the other shows plus it was so goofy near the end and they actually took it less seriously and for some reason that made the show much better for me because of how weird and fun it was. They seriously needed one more season at least since I did care about the characters
I'm surprised they ended on a cliffhanger! You'd think they would have continued on for one more season just to finish the story!!
I liked Legends of Tomorrow because, unlike the other shows, it stopped taking itself too seriously. That made it awsome to me because it embraced its sillyness.
Glad you liked it! Which season was your favorite?
@@TheThirdFloorofficial all of them minus the first.
Imo, one of the contributing factors to the fall is the fact that TV may not be the best medium for establishing an interconnected universe.. I loved early Arrow, early Flash (before Barry got dumb and folks had to tell him to run all the time), Supergirl. But with the constant addition of new shows, it became hard for me to keep up. The average Marvel movie is about 2hrs 15mins. That's three 45min episodes of an Arrowverse show, with shows averaging 22 episodes. And maybe I would have felt more compelled to if each show didn't consistently get progressively worse. Even if some shows were better than others, my mind goes "Why would I invest my time in a show that's probably going to suck soon?"
And the crossovers combine all these problems together. I dip out because the shows just aren't as good. I see an ad for the crossover that actually looks interesting. But this isn't the simple Arrow and Flash days. There's so many characters I don't know, from shows I haven't watched, maybe even with multiple seasons. Am I really going to suffer through all of that just so I can follow along for this one event, having to bounce between shows to watch the whole thing?
It breaks my heart because as a superhero fan, I was so happy to see enticing portrayals of these characters. But one after another, it just felt like they were handled with less and less care.
Awesome points! I 100% agree the more the quality dips, the less you want to commit to these LONG seasons. And then the crossovers, if you didn't invest time in the shows you may be lost. So it was all problematic in the end
The thing with most of the crossovers was that they were largely self contained and didn’t really impact the shows except for the crisis on infinite earths crossover that had a larger impact on the shows themselves ad at the time the did crisis it was to late to try and streamline the universe with it being arrow’s last season with most of the universe ending after the flowing season what made black lightning so good was it didn’t get the 22 episode count so it didn’t have to have the filler episodes that have nothing to do with the season’s overall plot so every episode in some way had to do with the overall plot
the early arrowverse was some of the BEST dc live action work,
Early flash and arrow are definitely top tier💪
I feel like they should've culled all the shows and redistributed their budgets into a handful of low budget dramas that The CW is known for and a single, higher budget Arrowverse anthology series, with each episode focusing on a single or handful of heroes, sort of like some episodes of the Justice League Unlimited cartoon, telling a solid self contained story with the budget for better effects and sufficient time for writers to iron out all the kinks in the screenplays.
I love Justice League unlimited and would like to see a live action version either using the same structure or the same characters. I just think even with a combined budget, CW would have struggled. But still, it would have probably been better than what we got!
@@TheThirdFloorofficial
I think Elseworlds had a really solid JLU-esqe tone to it that could've served as a proof of concept for a show, and now we're seeing the height of what The CW can pull off visually with Superman and Lois, which contrary to popular belief, is funded solely by The CW.
The worst bit about the over-the-top love stories is that their quality drops.
Like, look at The Flash for instance.
There was a love story in season 1; but it was very minor and it had a kind-of reason where Barry hadn't really dated before so he wanted to, and he was tangling with his romantic feelings.
There was a love story in season 2; where they made his love-interest an interesting side character who tangles with Barry being the flash, just as Barry did in S1. Her short, rarer appearances made sense, as Barry is a CSI and she was a cop.
By season 3, his love interest is his semi sister, who knows he is the flash, who has already had her background painted out for us previously, and someone who is a main character on the show who we see all the time. At least S3 had Barry grappling with what damage could be done to his love-life as a result of being the Flash.
S4 Onwards has none of the positives of the previous 3 seasons for the love life.
You can copy and paste this exact situation over to Arrow as well.
Felicity was an interesting side character, and Oliver hadn't dated since the Island so he has all that baggage.
Then Felicity is the side-character love interest coming to terms with Oliver being the arrow, and killing.
But then, like the Flash, all of a sudden it's a main character who we see all the time, we know the story of, and who has no growth surrounding Oliver being the Arrow.
Both those shows reach the same point in the love story where there is nowhere else to go, so they go around in circles with petty dramas that temporarily threaten the relationship but ultimately they get back together and live happy ever after.
100% agree! If they can't find a way to make the love stories different and actually impactful, then maybe they shouldn't be focused on as heavily! The fans are ok with the love interests as long as they are given the writing they deserve!
i totally agree arrow's downfall started in season 4
Streaming may have factored a bit into the decline in viewership with people just waiting till the season was done to binge on Netflix. Also the shows went on for to long with the 23 episodes as well. Outside of the first 2 seasons of Arrow much of the seasons of every show could have been shorten and leave room for better effects as well as not drawing out the story.
I agree that streaming could be a huge factor! And yeah, shorter seasons might have made the shows a lot more interesting and story driven!
What didn’t help was every new season had less of a budget than the previous season and the producers who took over were making awful decisions throwing political rhetoric in it, not investing in strong stories, characters making insane changes from one season to the next, heroes who were X amount of years in saving people acting like it’s their first day saving people. It was just tragic
I remember season 3 episode 3 of flash is when I checked out . Kudos to all the actors that got out of this train wreck .
Oh wow, early on! What happened in that episode that made you leave?
@@TheThirdFloorofficial if I remember (it’s been a while) season 3 is when the thinker was introduced and I was just bored out of my mind. I’d pop up here and there for a crossover episode but otherwise I was out.
Make more rise and falls surrounding super heroes and movie series. Examples are the different MCU shows and you could also do the success or failures of The Divergent series, Maze Runner, Hunger Games, and other Sci fi series. You’re channel has potential, but you gotta focus on the stuff that works, and your video essay was pretty dang good!!!
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it! The Rise And Fall series will be back sooner rather than later!🤘
Why this ever became a thing I will never understand.
You weren't a fan of the arrowverse in general?
@@TheThirdFloorofficial I really tried. Started Arrow, it got old quick(he felt like a Batman substitute). Tried Flash too, but after season 1 it just repeated the same plot.
I'm a massive comic book geek. So maybe that affects how I view these shows. But I think I'm fair. I can recognize great tv shows - Daredevil being the best example of that.
Oh yeah, even though I enjoyed some of the arrowverse, I can definitely admit there are better options out there! And as far as comic accuracy goes, they definitely strayed from the source material quite often 😂
To me, it started to go down in season 4 of the Arrow, and then it threw it the time jumps a the kids it's was too much for just a Archer with no powers. Oliver was more relatable because he had no powers.
I agree, the more far-fetched the show got, the more they moved away from developing Oliver as a character. The first season was about his skills, psyche, and trauma. But that doesn't do anything when he has to fight aliens and magic people 😂
As most people say-
Less is more
Too many episodes, characters and shows for that matter
Fewer episodes gives a better focus on the main storyline for the seasons
Though I like the "team" aspect, fewer cast members helps the writers not have to cram plot point for 10+ characters
Stuck w/ Arrow through its entirety
Watched Flash for 6 seasons or so but it got repetitive-a new speedster for a main villain every yr
Supergirl was decent for a few seasons
Actually really liked Stargirl
Superman and Lois pretty good
Due to being a huge Batman fan I watched Batwoman for yr but pulled the plug on that
Passed on everything else
I'm seeing quite a few people saying they liked Star Girl, and I'm super surprised! It didn't look like a show that would become popular if we're being honest 🤷♂️
@@TheThirdFloorofficial
Yeah true I decided to give it a shot and was glad I did
Thought Brec played the lead role well
Unfortunately it only got 3 seasons. How long would the show gone? idk Maybe when she graduated HS a couple of yrs later
For me the show started declining when the cast got bigger, in the beginning it was great just Oliver, John and Felcity ... then we got Mr “Terrific” (ironically), Hockey Mask and ... Other Girl (I honestly forgot her name) and those 3 assholes were lecturing Oliver on how to do the hero thing when HE brought them into the fold! Oh and then a pre-teen turns up and he’s all “hi I’m your kid you never knew about” because he knocked up an Asian lady while he was “trapped on the island” which for me screwed up the whole timeline because that boy looks WAY too old to be Oliver’s kid ... oh and this is an AU where Ra’s Al Ghul wants Oliver to marry his daughter instead of Batman too! Sheesh ...
Early Arrow was great, everything else, including the ending, was not 😒😒😒
Haha team arrow is definitely not my favorite, and I completely agree the storytelling takes some weird turns as the show progresses😂
The Arrowverses biggest strength and biggest weakness, peaking too early with the first couple of seasons of Arrow and Flash
Oh yeah, it was way too early, haha. But at least we got to see how good it could be!
I love the Arrowverse. I have everything I have access to. I plan in rewatching it love it
Glad to hear you enjoyed it! 👍
@@TheThirdFloorofficial I started to watch The Flash movie again. Sasha Calle has Supergirl but Melissa Benoits is the Supergirl
@@TheThirdFloorofficialwould you ever rewatch the whole Arrowverse again?
@jackrobins8756 hmmm I'm not sure. I think I'd rewatch certain shows but idk if I'd want to watch the whole thing again haha. But the more Arrowverse content I make the more I have to go back and rewatch. So you never know!
@@TheThirdFloorofficial haha. Like I love Arrowverse but it’s strange to go back to the 23 episode series rather than 8/10 these days.
They kind of remind me of early 1980s marvel, or the contrast between Batman, 1940 and bye Batman, 1960. Yes, they could’ve done a better job with stories instead of trying to stick to formulas that seem secure, but in the end, undermine their storyline and bottom line. This same philosophy is why we have had so many Batman reincarnations because they say the model is successful, so they are not willing to go outside of those boundaries. And that philosophy has eclipsed. A TV genre especially with superheroes for a very long time and only recently are we now getting new superheroes on screen from the comics. There is kind of an attachment between the film people and the actual fans. Some fans take to getting their interpretations put on screen and get a lot of backlash from the studios because they don’t look at them and somebody that could actually help them. They look at them as a threat. And with the Portia by dignity, politics and stuff that gets dragged into it, if not, only annoys the fan base, but it ruins the characters and it dates the filming. Rather, you could have a new TV series that you can watch any era any decade, and say, that was a good show 20 they were thinking this is the time it’s not really a good plan for the future. Cramming things down peoples throats and alienating the fan base because you want a better fan base is not a great way to produce TV shows. Taking all the characters and people are used to. and twisting them will decline your sales. And typically the fans voice from that point on is just to pull away from the show they’re not watching anymore. This doesn’t just happen, and what genre is in attack on all from sci-fi to fiction, fantasy, and other adventures. And it kind of irritated me when I saw a friend of mine, William F Nolan, who wrote Logan’s run actually adapted screenplay of his famous novel in Hollywood wouldn’t even look at it or we have a better idea. Well, for the author of a successful career says that and they say they’ve got a better idea they’re blind an arrogant. The only hope on getting past this is pretty much with new leader ship.
Awesome points and breakdown! Very well said!
Arrow Seasons 1, 2, and 5 are peak. Flash seasons 1-3 are peak. Legends was always funny
I definitely agree with the first two, but Legends just wasn't for me. Glad you liked it though!
They wanted Arrow to be a role model for the Flash so they stopped the killing. They should of made Arrow like batman from the get go, no killing.
Oh I get that, but if we're looking at it from a writing point of view, it would have been nice if they would have kept the two characters different so each show had a really separate feel to it. When arrow became less violent it just felt like the flash to me. But yes I agree it would have been easier if it was no killing from the start. But tbh I don't know if I would have been as interested as I was early on if that was the case!
@@TheThirdFloorofficial True too!@
Good Times on CW but it's Era has ended. 10-12 ep seasons and movies with good writing is where it's at now if they do it right. Even shows like the vampire diaries and the originals was good times too.
Honestly I was huge fan of the Arrowverse since the 2nd season Arrow but yeah your video was spot on about the weaknesses of the verse especially bc so many good writers left but Olicity was there to Stay😭 I swear the childish banter of Oliver's teammates and Olicity really had me starting to despise the show. I left after Season 6 bc I was sooo pissed Oly with to prison!!! I only came back for Oliver's finale in Crisis on Infinite Earths bc he's one of my favorite superheroes along growing up along with Naruto and Spider-Man. He saved and recreated the Multiverse that truly gave his loved some real happiness and peace especially his kids!!! All in All the Arrowverse inspired me to make my own superhero stories(which is harder than I thought lol) especially The Superman/Captain America of the verse: Oliver Queen the Arrow💚💚💪🏾
Haha making super hero stories is definitely harder than you'd think, but yl got this! Keep writing and I'm sure they'll turn out great💪. Can't wait to read/listen to them some day!
@The Third Floor Thank you!!! I'll have them up so enough on here💪🏾💪🏾 Keep making your excellent content!!
The writers forgot all about the comics smh. Bc Arrow was amazing!
For sure! What a great character 🙏
I liked Arrow Flash Supergirl and legends of tomorrow
Sweet, glad you enjoyed them! 🤘
everyone in the comments are so negative on the flash but personally, i like the seasons after season one, i feel like the episodes per season are too long/too many episodes and i dont really like the villain of the week thing or at least as much (especially in the first season) and im glad on less speedster villains.
Yeah, the flash definitely gets a lot of hate! Which seasons after season 1 did you like best? They all could have been good. But like you said, they fell into that pattern that just got super boring!🤷♂️
@@TheThirdFloorofficial i liked all the seasons (i just started season seven) but im like that kind of person who likes all the seasons and episodes regardless because of the characters or something, i only hate an episode when it’s really bad but i do think that whatever season 4 and 5 do feel like they’re too long like the whole ending could’ve been earlier and same thing with season 5 and i think it was stupid to bring another cicada and add the whole grace thing from the future, season 6 feels unfinished and kinda lost track of a main villain but ig il see what happens, i litterally cried when Nash died because it meant that all the wells are gone too lmao
You can make people watch 1 extra show to go along with your show. Not 7. It diluted the cast and made people just get tired having to watch 5 shows to get 1 story
True! It felt like it was a job just trying to keep up with everything! Just way too much sadly
Legends of Tomorrow was GOATED
Glad you liked it! So you would you put it as the #1 arrowverse show?
@@TheThirdFloorofficial honestly yes, i feel like at some point the writers acknowledged how weird it is and just went with it. It had some really beautiful moments too. I really love a lot of those characters and feel like the show is extremely underrated
Arrow S4 had me bailing because they killed Black Canary
I think they did Black Canary dirty in the entirety of this show, outside of Sarah's portrayl!
When it comes to the Arrowverse heres my thoughts on the 8 shows.
Arrow i enjoyed most of it. S1 was awesome and really took alot of inspiration from Mike Grells take on Green Arrow from the comics who was much more darker, violent, and killed people more like the Punisher. He was a hunter/killer first and a hero 2nd. He had a list of people that had failed the city ect. Season 1 theres so much i can say great about it a near perfect season for me. Season 2 is still great but i do find it weaker than season 1 for a few different reasons. If you ever want me fo explain more let me know. I still find it great but maybe a little overated. S3 of Arrow i enjoyed and found great too and definitely underated in my opinion. Not as bad as people made it out to be. Season 4 is definitely a bad but watchable season. Theres other seasons in the Arrowverse as a whole alot worse than Arrow s4 for me. Theres still some episodes or stuff i liked about s4 but overall its a disappointment compared to the great seasons of Arrow. Season 5 i find amazing and its my favorite season of the show. Prometheus is my favorite main villian on the show and s5 had oliver at his best and back to killing again it went back to being like s1 but even better. Plus dolph lundgren did a great job as flashback villian. The russia flashbacks were great. Too many things to name off great.
Season 6 i also find very underrated. I enjoy s6 and dont find it as bad as people make it out to be. I still find s6 a good season. S7 now this is when the show started to go downhill for me. The first half with the prison story arch was great. But after he got out of prison i started finding the show worse than arrow season 4. It felt werid him not wearing the hood and mask anymore and the ninth circle with emiko queen were the worse main villians ever on the show and tbis was the final main villian. S7A Prison Story Great. S7B Ninth Circle was bad for me.
S8 i found it a ok season. It did have some great cameo callbacks to past seasons a great new suit for oliver and great fight scenes. But it was too short and had no main villian or story going for it outside of crisis on Infinite earths crossover. Every other show year 8 had a main villian and story going pre crisis and post crisis. Arrow s8 feels not as rewatchable as the rest of the seasons unless you plan on rewatching the crossover. Plus i didnt like the idea of my favorite dc superhero of all time dieing in the end with a sad funeral ending.
So overall i enjoyed s1, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7A
Dang, now that's a breakdown! Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I'm glad you liked the show! I have a slightly differing opinion about seasons 4 and 6, but besides that, I'm pretty much on board with the rest of it. Now, here's a question for you. If James Gunn makes a Green Arrow show/movie in the DCU, would you like to continue to see this darker version of him? Or would you rather see the sarcastic and humor based version instead?
Now Heres my thoughts on The Flash
Season 1 I find great. Season 2 I found even better. S2 is my favorite season of this show and Zoom is my opinion the best main villian on The Flash. S3 I originally didn't like as much but rewatching I enjoy it alot more now and find it a great season especially compared to the later seasons. It seems like Andrew Kreisberg is the one that made the show great. The showrunner of s1 2 and 3. Because by s4 when he was no longer showrunner is when the show started to slowly go downhill with Todd as showrunner. S4 I still enjoy and would say overall it was good or ok but definitely alot weaker than s1 2 and 3. Devoe started off interesting but once the bodyswaps happen is when the character was ruined and no longer a good villian. I think with s4 the only thing great mainly was the comedy between Cisco ralph ect. S5 was ok at best. It was a bad flash season but still watchable. Cicada was a bad main villian that was funny to laugh at the way he talked and 2.0 was just boring forgettable. S5 is the first bad season of the show. Now we move to s6 the start of Eric Wallace taking over as showrunner with his graphic Novel approach. For s6 I think it actually started off great in 6a with the Bloodwork graphic novel. Bloodwork was a great main villian the story to 6a was done mostly great. I think bloodwork if given more episodes could have been even better than what we got but still great. S6B mirror master started off interesting but definitely weaker than s6A. There were some interesting episodes s6b about the changes to post crisis and seeing grodd return. But it was overall ok the 2nd half. S6a I liked as much as s3. S6b I liked more than s5 and maybe equal to s4. But unfortunately Eric Wallace next season would destroy the show. S7 is a very bad season. The first 3 episodes to wrap up s6b mirror master was disappointing. The 2nd episode was ok but that finale was so bad how she got defeated. Than we go to the true s7a which starts ep4 the force quest story which is so bad and a joke of a story. Than for some reason we get now 3 interlude episodes when we shouldn't get any or 1 at most in between a graphic novel. S7 is the first time we got these pointless filler interlude episodes. The first 1 was a silly funny episode to laugh at but the next 2 were so boring forgettable especially the Allegra episode. I dont understand what it is with Eric Wallace but you start noticing from s7 8 and 9 Eric decides to give us a good amount of episodes where Barry is benched in his own show where the supporting cast like Cecile, cisco, Chester, Allegra, Caitlin, Joe, ect are the main characters for a episode and Barry is there for maybe 1 min if were lucky and doesn't even suit up. Than after the interlude we get the very disappointing godspeed novel which was too short with only 4 episodes and the true godspeed doesn't show up till the last episode for only 1 fight. And godspeed came off like a silly power ranger villian. And that star wars fight at best was funny to laugh at what the hell is this im watching.
Moving on to s8.
Armageddon for the most part was good. I enjoyed that 1. Than we get 2 more pointless interlude episodes why. Than we get the deathstorm arc which was interesting at first but the finale was disappointing in the end. Than we get 4 more interlude forgettable filler episodes than we get for the negative arc only 3 episodes and that negative arc i think might be worse than the force quest of s7. To be honest I dont like the idea of reverse flash still existing after s1 finale. The only version we should have is matt in the past before he goes back in time to s1 timeline or if Barry goes back in time to s1 to see Tom's reverse flash. But I always found it werid tom still playing reverse flash s4 5 6 7 8 ect for 2 reasons.
1. Wells is not his real face and it only made sense s1 because he was tricking everyone with that tech to look like someone else. And unless were in s1 timeline it should be matt letscher actor his real face playing reverse flash
2. He shouldn't exist after s1 finale. He should be like explained in s2 and s3 a timeline remnant where any version we see is before he time travel to s1 and got stuck there. His future should have ended with Eddie shooting himself no more thawne after that event only in the past before that time. So s2 s3 and s9 ep10 matt letscher version made sense there.
Anyways s5 they never explained how he got to prison in the future ect and they tried to explain s5 and s6 that how he's supposedly still alive after s1 even though he should still be dead is he created at some point his own negative speed force which is immune to timeline paradoxs making him still exist. And than by s8 Eric retcon something he came up with in s5 and s6. By now saying we now have negative forces so the 4 forces in force quest now have negative evil versions. It was way too werid plus only 3 episodes as well..
Moving on now to the final season this season also was bad the red death ep 1 and ep 3 were ok but 2 4 and 5 were bad. Than we got 3 boring episodes in a row. Than we get 2 great episodes with 1 crossover with Green arrow figting bloodwork and ep 10 part 1 of coblat blue novel which went full circle to seeing the original timelibe Barry save his younger self. But unfortunately the show went downhill again in the last 3 episodes. Eric this season had the same problem of focusing too much on the supporting cast and not enough on the flash. And cobalt blue Eddie could have been a great villian but the problem is they didn't give him time to fully develop into a main villian on the show.
If we look back at bloodwork erics best graphic Novel s6a he was given 2 to 3 episodes for his backstory and motivations and 5 more episodes after as a full on main villian before he was defeated. And looking at s1 2 and 3 those were season long main villinas. Eddie thawne got 3 episodes to develop him for his orgin story motivations but whats the point if your going to only have him a full on villian in the finale for half a episode. I feel if Andrew stayed showrunner for Flash the show would have never gone so much downhill and we would have never gotten Eric WALLACE who it seems became a writer s4 to replace todds old job. Todd was 1 of Andrew Kreisberg writers I heard in s1 2 and 3 but after Andrew got fired s4 they promoted Todd to showrunner and Eric wallace took over todds old job until Todd later left to do superman and lois and than Eric got promoted to showrunner.
Anyways overall for Flash I enjoyed s1, s2, s3, and s6A Bloodwork. I then found s8a Armageddon and s4 kind of good too. But thats it. The rest is not good. Dang I didn't realize how long it took to write this. I will tomorrow do more comments giving my thoughts on the seasons of Supergirl, Legends, Black Lightning, Batwoman, Stargirl, and Superman and Lois. I dont count naomi or Gotham knights
@@TheThirdFloorofficial thanks. Sorry for long comment. I probably could have said more but I will admit its easier to speak my thoughts on a video/audio vs type it all out. So you like s4 but didnt like s6? I also have to say I disagree with Arrow being like Batman. The TV show version feels alot different than batman for me. When I saw the show I see more of it getting its inspiration from Green Arrow year 1 comic for the flashbacks and borrowing alot of ideas from Mikes grell take on Green Arrow in the comics. S3 I will admit borrow from batman a little bit with the ras storyline. But outside of that ras story I feel most of the seasons borrow from Green arrow stories here and there. Its just the show never fully followed any comic book or stories to a T. For example the cupid debut in s3 took some scenes out of the comics like that train scene happen in the comics but a little different. I think people are mainly more familiar with the golden age of Green Arrow comics when he was more campy with tons of tricks arrows or the silver age when he grew a beard and got more political funny sarcastic ect. But those are not the only versions of Green arrow. Mikes take was more darker violent and he gave oliver the hood. He made him more similar to the Punisher in comparison. And Arrow on the show felt more like punisher to me than Batman. But he also had dark moments in new 52 comics and rebirth as well. Green Arrow btw is my favorite DC Superhero of all time and Arrow tv show some seasons I enjoy more than all dc movies ever made so far. I know its a unpopular opinion but I really find Green Arrow more interesting than Batman. As far as your question if James Gunn made a dceu Green Arrow. I would prefer Stephen Amell as Green Arrow again with his dark violent take to bring him back as mike grells version of the characters we see in s5 and s1. But I would want him alive as Green arrow not the spectre and he never dated felicity and instead is with laurel lance black canary from e1 but she's got the skills and powers of Black Siren from e2. Arrow the tv show is not perfect there are some changes in s2 which I blame on Marc Guggenheim when he got more control on the show. The olicity stuff should have never happen I heard rumors Marc didn't like Katie Cassidy and loved Emily Brett Richard's and originally s1 laurel was meant to be the love interest to oliver like in the comics but Marc decided to change that to piss off the green arrow fans of the comics. I will admit there are some changes in the comics I wish didn't happen but I still overall enjoy most seasons of Arrow and I'm glad my favorite DC Superhero is finally getting attention for once. DC for way too long has overused batman and superman and ignored the rest especially Green Arrow who is very underrated and has a great rogues gallery of villians its just dc until the tv show never seemed to cared to give him his own movies or series live action or animated in the past. The tv show Arrow is the 1st and only time he has has his own thing as the main character.
@@TheThirdFloorofficial if james gunn made a dcu Green Arrow movie. I would love to see that. As far which of those 2 versions I prefer. If its stephen amell reprising his role which I would love for him to return, I would want that version dark violent killing but some changes where he never died and became the spectre. He survived crisis. He never dated felicity and instead got married to laurel like in the comics. And bring back certain villians like the Count, ClockKing, Brick ect. Certain big name Green Arrow villians who never got a season as a main villian on the shkw to finally get to be a main villian in a Green Arrow movie.
If James Gunn. Doesn't bring back Stephen Amell and gives us a whole new actor to play the role. Then I would like to see a different version of Green Arrow. Maybe the one you mentioned or The Golden Age Silver Age new 52 rebirth ect. Or Andrew Kreisberg take on the character. Or kevin smith take. For mikes take on Green Arrow I see Stephen Amell perfect for that role to return to but for a new actor I would want it to be different so then I can enjoy both for different reasons instead of comparing who did a better job of playing mikes take on the character.
@@TheThirdFloorofficial would you like me to share my thoughts the other Arrowverse seasons.
For Arrow I said I really enjoyed s1, 2, 3, 5, and 6.
For Flash i said I really enjoyed s1, 2, 3, and 6A.
But I still haven't given you my thoughts on...
All 6 seasons of Supergirl
All 7 seasons of Legends
All 4 seasons of Black Lightning
All 3 seasons of Batwoman
All 3 seasons of Stargirl
3 seasons of Superman and Lois with a 4th coming out next year.
If you want let me know if you want me to comment my opinions on those shows/seasons.
Whats your opinion on the seasons of all 8 Arrowverse shows?
All I know is every cross over with arrow and flash was a hit
Oh don't get me wrong. I love the Barry and Oliver dynamic and the things they did together. But when everyone else got thrown in is where I think the quality went down is all 🤷♂️
@@TheThirdFloorofficial ok. True
@@TheThirdFloorofficial great video!👍 The arrowverse had so much potential, and they mess it up. I didn't like the direction that arrow went either. What I think they should've done was keep arrow growned, and self contained, but at the same time, still acknowledge that their in a shared univers. You could still put metas, and magic in some episode, but do the more growned episodes. I wasn't a fan of seasons 3 and 4. Damon should've been just a normal growned villain who was highly skilled. And he wasn't close to Slade Wilson and Malcolm merlyn.
Definitely agree, that would have been great! Thanks for the comment 🤘
@@TheThirdFloorofficial you're welcome.
I remember when the Flash first came out. It was one of the first live-action shows I would follow and me and my siblings would watch it together and found it so fun and unique, since we only knew the Flash from Justice League Unlimited. I would follow it for a few seasons, and then I left it off for a while because I was watching a LOT of shows at the time, most specifically getting into Game of Thrones. I would watch a bunch of other TV shows, then I suddenly remembered about the Flash show. At this point I watched multiple critically acclaimed and wildly popular shows. I put on one episode of the Flash and the writing was just unbearable I stopped watching it in like 10 minutes lol.
As a fellow GoT fan, I can confirm that the writing is much better over there than in the Flash 😂
In my opinion Legends of Tomorrow was pretty great, after the first one or two seasons. When they just started embracing the fact that they were making a stupid, goofy show and dove headfirst into absurdity, everyone involved just sort of seemed like they were having a lot of fun making it, which was great to watch. The last couple seasons were a little less fun, but still entirely enjoyable, at least from my perspective.
Glad you enjoyed it! For me, I just didn't want another really goofy superhero show. But I can tell a lot of people really enjoyed the humor and craziness of it!
I just remember after season 2 of Arrow and Flash, it felt like obligation rather than enjoyment.
Wow, that hits deep. What a great way to describe the arrowverse 😮💨
Season 5 of arrow was great
Полностью согласен. После первой половины 3 сезона я бросил Стрелу, и точно также поступил со Флэшом, правда мне хотелось узнать чем они все в конце концов закончат(Флэшбеки с острова Оливера и газета будущего у Барри), и поэтому я следил за этим безумием через Ютуб. Единственный раз я хотел вернуться, чтобы посмотреть 5 сезон Стрелы, но я до сих пор его не посмотрел.
А ну еще я посмотрел 2 сезона Легенд, вроде тоже было неплохо, особенно 2 сезон(черт побери Эобард Тоун и Малкольм Мерлин, лучшие злодеи Арровверса(если не считать Слейда Уилсона) добавьте к ним Капитана Холода, самого харизматичного из Легенд, ну и Дарк в легендах был хорош(я слышал, что в Стреле он был так себе).
Season 5 of arrow was great and season 3 was still pretty good.
I think seasons 2 and 3 of legends were really enjoyable. The roster of characters was balanced nicely and it was a lot of fun to watch the show hit its stride in season 2.
While I will say season 2 was definitely an improvement on season 1, I just didn't want another goofy show, so it wasn't for me. I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it though!
Legends is still great after season 3
After season three it became the dumping ground for characters from the other show that got to big to include anymore and when they started relying to much on the magical world causing they could have been the cosmic side of the universe with inspiration taken from doctor who cause they had the ability to time travel like the doctor and it didn’t need to me earth based cause they had the wave rider that could have taken them to other planets
Legends is my second favorite show
I think in general the best seasons of the arrowverse are Arrow S1>Flash S1&2>Legends S2&3> everything else
Arrow was my show. I watched all of the seasons. When it ended, to me, the Arrowverse was done.
I kind of felt the same way. I got into the arroverse because of Arrow, and it felt very different after Oliver was gone!😮💨
I felt the same way... except it wasn't when "Arrow" ended.
For me?
It was when "Olicity" started... not to mention when "Mr. Iris West-Allen" became a thing... remember "WE are The Flash"? Every time someone on that show said that, I would yell "NO... BARRY IS THE FLASH... WTF?"
Goddamned CW, taking everything from those dumbass "shippers" on Twatter at face value...
@@thisisnotachannel Hahaha shippers are definitely dangerous! And oh boy, we are the flash was brutal...
Agreed
I recently rewatched Arrow again. And man it’s by far my favorite show of the Arrowverse. I don’t care what anyone says, but despite its flaws in the later seasons I still love it (except for season 4). I grew up with Arrow and once it ended I was so heartbroken and I stopped watching the Arrowverse entirely, because every other show sucked by that point. I mean the only reason I watched the last season of the flash was to see Oliver again
I can relate! Even with how critical i was about the show. I still cared about Arrow! And when Oliver died, that really marked the end of the Arrowverse for me. 😮💨
I really think a large part of the arrowverse decline was a switch from tv format and having a week off between each episode and switching as a society to binge watching. Things like endless relationship drama and villain repetitiveness weren't noticeable when watching a single episode, but become grueling when binge watching multiple episodes in one sitting.
Ohhh, now that's a good point! Maybe shows needed to be adapted to the binge watching format, and the arrowverse was just late to the party! Great thought!
The first 2 seasons of Arrow and first season of Flash are GOATed
No doubt! The best of the best💪
Arrow 1-3, first half of 4, and 8; Flash 1-3 (yes, I enjoyed 3); Supergirl 1-2; Black Lightning 1; Superman & Lois 1-2; Earth X; and Infinite Earths. PEAK Arrowverse.
As I see it, it was right around the time of Season 2 of Supergirl that things started going downhill. Apparently, there were already problems, but S2 of Supergirl was around the time that the heads of the Arrowverse started shoving in agendas to the point people started getting sick of them and dropped the shows.
It wasn’t the political/agendas that killed it it was around the time they acquired supergirl for its second season from cbs that they dove head first into turning the shows into a soap opera cause they should have looked at dc’s most recent successful show at that point Lois and Clark the new adventures of Superman cause that had the right balance of the more serious side and the more action side that made it fun to watch on Sunday nights and u didn’t feel like u had to watch u wanted to watch
That’s only part of it. They are getting way too political yes but they also are getting sloppy with the writing.
The problem was that it was on the CW. They always destroy/ruin things. They were the cream of the crop until Daredevil came out and made it look like 90210. I honestly wanted comic GA not watered-down Batman by taking Batman’s main storylines and villains for s3. I do agree with you that s1 was the best season in my eyes.
I wonder how a more comic accurate Green Arrow would have done with ratings 🤔 definitely would have been cool to see
@@TheThirdFloorofficial I mean green arrow from smallville?
@@lordpugsie9091 I have opinions on that portrayal that won't be popular lol. So I think I'll just say, I'd like to see a different take on the character then the ones seen in both Smallville and Arrow...
Tbf comic accurate Green Arrow is awesome. He's sort of a mix of Batman and Flash in terms of abilities and sense of humour/personality. And he has a lot of interesting storylines and associated characters. I think if it was made today it would do incredibly well.
@@aclarkson9368 like Smallville green arrow?
Arrow season 1 and 2 were amazing, everything else in the arrowverse felt like it had issues
Oh it definitely had issues alright haha but I still enjoyed a good portion of it
Legends is genuinely amazing
How would you compare legends to the other Arrowverse shows?
@@TheThirdFloorofficial creatively better and free while being fresh with the storytelling, the others shows have a habit of doing the same thing over and over again while being too serious, the cast and characters genuinely have fun and finds ways to grow certain characters throughout the show, if people like Constantine, Thawn, Malcom and Damien can come in and fit better on here while bouncing off others naturally while establishing threat, you did something right
If Flash didn't have the the same constraints, it could be as creative, it seems to want to as the "you got wammied" episodes where Grant or the cast gets to play outside their characters for a minute and that shows creativity, the cast interactions and it's ideas in Flash is the only reason why it went on so long and why people are still genuinely interested in what's happening....I can't explain otherwise
Superman & Lois is the Main proof that THE MAIN PROBLEM OF THE ARROWVERSE were the excesive amount of episodes per seasons, 20+ Episodes per seasons work in procedurials(Like House & The Mentalist), not for shows with an established plot
*One of the things that make me love Brooklyn 99 is how after season 5 the show start to reduce the episodes per season, because they knew 22 episodes per season was Ridiculous
Great point! It definitely became too much, especially since they had the multi show formula going for so long! It's like eating your favorite food 3 times a day. No matter how much you love it, it's going to eventually get old!
Legends of Tomorrow season 2 and 3 were really awesome. Unfortunately with season 4 it went downhill
Dang with all these LOT comments I may have to rewatch the show🤔
IMO season 3-5 were really, REALLY good. I think embracing the goofiness is a really daring, but smart move.
I know, right? I was a bit sad how *Legends* was swept to the side in this recap and considered on the same level as Supergirl & "Batgirl" (I assume they meant Batwoman?)
Even season 1 was pretty decent, I mean I know that the consensus is that it was one of the weakest seasons, and Vandal Savage was a weak Big Bad, but Captain Cold made watching it worth it
I loved pretty much every season of Legends of Tomorrow. It was definitely my favourite show of all time!
Oh wow, so it takes your top spot for the best show in the Arrowverse?😯
Nah bro I’m with you on this one I LOVED Legends of tomorrow because it was so goofy 😂 and I honestly cared about the characters fr
Yeah, I don’t know what he was thinking about saying that stuff about legend that really was one of the best shows and it really only went downhill its last season and then got canceled and left on a cliffhanger. Invite downhill I don’t even mean it was garbage. It just wasn’t as good as the season beforehand.
I loved it too, was basically DC's Guardians of the Galaxy, but better imo
Wow, that's a surprising one! You liked Legends more than Guardians?😯
Season 3 of arrow and season 1 of flash happened at the same time. S2 of flash happened while season 4 of arrow happened.
Arrow Season 1 2 3 and 5 had me hooked. First 2 season of Flash as well.
I completely agree. I remember after season 3 of the flash it started to get really really corny, like with the character of ralph. Using over the top humor kinda like legends of tomorrow. Now, legends was created that way so it works(kinda)... But the flash started out similar to arrow with more serious vibes. They did start to reverse that as the seasons progressed and although the viewership dropped, I actually didn't mind season 7 and 8. Now, one thing about arrow I liked was they at least kept the serious tone throughout the series. Obviously it was the best at the start. But Oliver always had the serious presence about him that never wavered. Sadly though, the Flash was good imo on season 1(best), 2, and 3. 4,5, and 6 it got really corny, and 7 and 8 it brought a little more seriousness back. Hopefully they'll just give us a bunch of fan service the last few episodes we have left😅.... But all in all good video. 👍
Thank you so much! And oh yeah, let's hope this show gives us some good payoff for sticking with it all these years😂
Ralph was in S4. This guy doesn't remember things correctly. The Flash S1 ran alongside Arrow S3, not S2. Because Barry was in a coma for the rest of Arrow S2 after being struck by lightning. The Flash S2 ran alongside Arrow S4, not Arrow S3. Arrow S4 is the worst season of Arrow.
S4 of flash: “I’m not like the Flash. Some may say I’m the reverse.”
Superman and lois is just as good as the early seasons of arrow and flash which is why its the only CW superhero show that hasn't been cancelled
Wow that's high praise! I believe I watched the first season and enjoyed it. Maybe I'll have to watch the second season now and see what I've been missing out on 👍
@@TheThirdFloorofficial I thought the first season was as good as flash and arrow but the second season was worse
But I heard the third season is really good
@@minerpvpgaming2160 if we're comparing 2nd seasons, Flash and Arrow are both better.
@@dimitrescu182 season 1 of both of those shows were way better than their r season 2s
I think season 1 of arrow is better than season 1 of Superman and Lois but season 1 of the flash wasn’t
Season 2 of arrow and flash were both better than season 2 of Superman and Lois though
I need to say this real quick, Superman and Lois releases first on the CW App, but doesn’t belong to them. It was made by HBO Max and simply uses the same actors for Superman and Lois
Speaking of Ninth Circle, I found it very weird how they got Adrian Paul for what is clearly their season villain and then just kill his character off with little to no fanfare. Makes one wonder if there were rewrites or shaky behind-the-scenes stuff going on because the twist of Emiko's true allegiance didn't feel natural in the slightest.
Edit: Oh and between Longbow Hunters just disappearing mid-season with no resolution and the weak ending, the season generally felt very messy.
Hahaha, yeah, something wasn't being communicated clearly behind the scenes I don't think😂. The long bow hunters were the weirdest part, one second, they were these fearsome warriors that scared everyone and the next they were just gone 😂
@@TheThirdFloorofficial Damn I forgot about them whatever happened to that team?
@@wolfgang6442 only the Bear was arrested by Oliver and Diggle while we do not know what happened to others. Would have liked to see Oliver go against them
One of the falls for Flash was Iris’ character during season 4 the writing just went down, I just started rewatching the seasons and honestly the first 3 season of her character wasn’t horrible writing they could’ve built the relationship better but other than that the character just went downfall annoying from season 4 onward
I totally agree with this take. It’s started so damn strong then fell hard. By the third season of Arrow I was trying so hard to like it but it just paled in comparison. The over the top drama absolutely killed the show completely for me. I wanna watch an interesting story with the hero being a badass and learning shit/ remembering helpful shit along the way. I don’t care about the stupid romance or putting all the heroes on a team together. Don’t put the heroes no one likes on the team with the ones that outshine them. It just ruins the project.
That toughest part is that we still tried to enjoy it! Like we did our best, if only the writers and other higher ups would have done the same!
Man I loveed arrow. Just lost me when everyone was becoming a superhero and knowing Oliver's identity. Undermining him, I stopped somewhere around season 6 tried to force myself to watch s7. And there was the children (one of em was just LGBTQ propaganda 😭)
And the spectre and crisis thing 😂😂
Yeah, when his secret became not so secret anymore, it really took away from the show !
I’m surprised this video completely ignored the fact that Arrowverse shows are wildly popular on Netflix and HBO Max, and at times drawing more viewers on streaming than on the network
That's great. I'm glad to hear they're doing well! But in my own opinion that success started after the main fall of the arrowverse, so I didn't think it fit the video🤷♂️
Season 3 of Legends of Tomorrow rank among the top 3 best seasons in the Arrowverse for me. Totally underrated show.
Oh wow that's a high ranking! What 2 other seasons make your top 3?
@@TheThirdFloorofficial Arrow S5 will always be my number 1. I can't choose which to rank 2nd between Flash S1 and Legends S3.
Arrow season 5 is an underrated pick! Great choice 💪
i don’t know if its you or me but why are you talking about the flash season 2 and arrow season 3 concurrently? the flash’s first season played concurrently with arrow season 3 (remember Oliver had his black suit when they teamed up against the Reverse Flash and he references Ray Palmer, both story lines from season 3)
It's both haha. So I paired the first two seasons of flash and arrow together because I think they are both high quality. Then I move on to each of their next seasons because that's when I noticed a major drop in quality. When listening to the video, I knew what I meant, but upon reading some comments, I think I could have worded it more clearly 😂
I’ve rewatched arrow season 1, 2 and 3 11 times throught the years always skipping to season 5 with Prometheus that should have just been the ending
Would you have re-written the ending or just left it how it was?
For me I really agree with just about all your opinions on the shows. I did really enjoy Arrow season 5 overall, but other than that none of the later stuff was any good. Such a shame
Yeah they had a lot of potential, I just wish they could have used them properly!
Personally my favourite Arrowverse show is Legends of Tomorrow, as well as it being my favourite tv show probably ever. And I think it’s just a matter of opinion, but I always liked it more than the other arrowverse shows because of how wacky and funny it could be, making the ideas of heroes and villains and time travelling less serious and more entertaining, which was in contrast with the other arrowverse shows. I only started watching arrowverse shows in 2020 because of the pandemic, and I only watched flash and super girl at first because they were the only ones on Netflix. And I loved them, and then I found Legends. And I loved it even more than those, probably partly because it took me to a world that was really safe from everything bad happening in the world. But I also think that it’s a matter of target audience. I like Arrow, but Supergirl and Legends always spoke to me more because I’m a teenaged girl, and I could find more to relate to in them. Another thing about Legends is that it had such a diverse cast, and Sara Lance was the first bisexual superhero, and one of the first queer women in general, that I’d seen on television in a leading role. So because of this, it’s going to always be my favourite. But I can agree that for all of the shows, the way the universe got so big and the production quality was too low made some of the shows not be as good as they could have been. However the heart of them has always made me love them, even when some of the ‘villains of the week’ didn’t interest me in Flash or Supergirl or Arrow.
And that's what it's all about! Superhero shows should take us somewhere amazing and help us forget the troubles of our everyday life! I'm glad Legends does that for you! Great breakdown. Thanks for the comment 🙏
I 100% agree with you dude. It was so entertaining and funny to watch that I would just binge so many of the seasons because it was goofy and they just owned it without making it super dramatic
As a longtime Arrowverse fan who watched every show here's my perspective. This stems from several problems not just one.
1) Arrow, Flash, LOT (I personally liked S1) and even Batwoman S1 all started off good in their first few seasons however the problem was that CW leaned in too heavy on the drama. Now I'm not saying that drama is unwarranted and it can help develop the characters the problem wqs that the way CW used drama made feel like the characters regressed after overcoming their obstacles. Overtime it felt less like a superhero show with dome and more of a drama show with a little bit of superhero.
2) The 20+ episode structure. It wasn't problematic in the beginning it actually helped develop some of the side characters so whenever we would get filler episodes they would be fun and sometimes even praised as some of the best ever written in the Arrowverse. But filler soon became unimportant after we learned a lot about the characters. Also some of the stories even if they're good they start to drag on especially if it's a mystery. For example the mystery of who Savitar is intrigued everyone from the start but when they strengthed that story for too long it started to become obvious that it was an evil Barry. The villain of the week could have worked better if instead alhaving a one-off villain every they could have villains appear regularly have their own arcs. For example instead of having Captain Cold only appear sporical appearances he should have been a secondary villain and appear in somewhere around half of the season and creating a Rogue arc. Many people including myself have clamored these shows to reduce the episode count to around 13 to 15 as a way to reduce filler and so the story can stay more consistent or at the very list split the season in half similar to how The Flash would eventually. That makes Black Lightning not only great but also the only Arrowverse show to have every season be consistently good. Reducing the episodes could have also help with the budget.
3) This one was out of the CW's control. Streaming service was becoming increasingly popular and not a lot of people were watching the shows week to week as they would 20-30 years ago. In addition almost every streaming service had their own comic book show. Amazon: The Boys & Invincible, Disney+: MCU, MAX: DC (Doom Patrol, Titans, Peacemaker, etc.) Netlfix: Sweet Tooth, Umbrella Academy, etc. The Arrowverse could have been saved if they transferred their shows to MAX
With the Arrowverse ending it's sad that not only it's ending but also that most of the shows got cancelled and didn't even get a proper ending. But it won't erase all of the good memories I had with this universe. And who knows maybe in the newr future once James Gunn DC Universe is created if there is a multiverse related project we might see the Arrowverse return due to how popular it is
Dang my friend maybe you should make a video about this topic as well haha. But I definitely agree with all your points, at the end of the day I'm a fan of the arrowverse, but I wish the characters got some better treatment towards the end.
@@TheThirdFloorofficial thank you. I appreciate your feedback. There was a lot more I wanted to mention but I felt like it went too long and I also forgot to include it. I don't know if I'll ever do a video talking about the problems the Arrowverse had because there's already tons of videos focusing on that topic. But I might do a video series where I rewrite the bad seasons of the Arrowverse
Ohhh, that sounds sick. When you end up making the video, give us a shout, and all of us will definitely give it a watch! Good luck and happy writing ✍️
Seasons 5 and 8 of Arrow were pretty solid in my opinion. I quite liked Season 7 as well.
For the Flash, I really like Season 5 in terms of everything related to Nora and the Reverse Flash, Cicada was a bit wack though. I really liked Season 6 as well and how different and unique the story and villain was as well and how Iris and others being trapped in the mirror actually lasted a long time. It sucks the resolution to the season's story though was a bit lack luster in Season 7 and then everything following in Season 7 was ass. Still haven't seen 8 or 9 yet.
Supergirl is actually a show I think stays pretty consistent and gets better each Season. I still haven't got around to watching 5 or 6 yet but I'm keen to.
I liked Seasons 1 and 2 of Legends of Tomorrow and a bit of 3 when it was more serious. When it became a joke show that was too silly I lost interest.
And of course all the crossovers were goated.
Wait, did you not like seasons 1 and 2 of Arrow? 😯😯
@@TheThirdFloorofficial I felt I didn't need to state it because everyone who watches the show likes Season 1 and 2 of Arrow and the Flash for that matter.
Hahah ok, good. I figured as much but needed to check 😂
Heres my quick short thoughts on the 8 shows
Arrow
S1 S
S2 A
S3 A
S4 D
S5 S
S6 A
S7 first half A 2nd half F
S8 B
The Flash
S1 S
S2 S
S3 S
S4 B
S5 D
S6 Bloodwork A
Mirror Master C
S7 Force Quest F
Godspeed D
S8 Armageddon B
Deathstorm C
Negative F
S9 Red Death D
Cobalt Blue D
Supergirl
S1 B
S2 A
S3 C
S4 S
S5 B
S6 D
Legends
S1 A
S2 S
S3 B
S4 F
S5 B
S6 F
S7 C
Black Lightning
S1 A
S2 B
S3 S
S4 B
Batwoman
S1 D
S2 F
S3 F
Stargirl
S1 B
S2 B
S3 D
Superman and Lois
S1 A
S2 C
S3 A
Netflix marvel shows destroyed the cw dc shows
I think Daredevil and the punisher did, but I'm not too sure if the others did. I'd definitely rather watch Arrow and the Flash over Iron Fist and Luke Cage!
@@TheThirdFloorofficial i feel you
The SJW stuff was super insufferable and often came off as forced and uninteresting especially in supergirl and tbh the flas back bit started getting old and repetitive after season 3-4 in my opinion at least
Season 2 of arrow was peak
I loved the first 2 seasons! Which is better to you, th first two seasons of Arrow or Daredevil?
@@TheThirdFloorofficial daredevil by far, arrow wasn’t bad a solid 8/10 in the beginning but daredevil has much better writing, cinematography, and characters
I can definitely see where you're coming from. Daredevil is a phenomenal show!
season 1 was better
@@TheThirdFloorofficial Daredevil, Invincible, The Boys are the best superhero shows
I watch the Arrowverse when it first started and the first two seasons of flash and arrow were the best (there third season may be questionable) Dc's Legends of tomorrow first three seasons were also incredible as for the other shows (I haven't watch supergirl yet) I did get that interested in them
Do you think you'll give the other shows a try? Or is it too late for em now?
@@TheThirdFloorofficial I have Decided yet
You're very spot on, shows were great at the very beginning but greatly fallen off. oddly i always come back because I enjoy seeing the characters so much. i really wish the writers made the shows more compelling. its crazy to think how filler the last flash season has became filler yet they just aired the greatest episode of the season last week. and tonight i'm even more excited for what's gonna happen. I really hope the last 4 episodes of the arrowverse on the flash are decent to banger ass episodes, I just want all my time spent with these shows worth it!!!!!!!!!!
I know what you mean. Despite some of the bad times, I always found myself being drawn back because I loved the characters so much. Fingers crossed the flash gets the ending it deserves 🤞
Honestly, Dc legends of tomorrow was to me the only one that was consistently good except the first few episodes of the season of aliens that was way too spontaneous
Oliver Queen was the Tony Stark of the Arrowverse.
They both started it all! And just like Tony, the universe wasn't the same when Oliver died 😭
I think the arrowverse had a ton of ups and downs.. watched it from the start.. Arrow and flash both had great seasons 1 and 2.. I think that might have helped the flash's viewership season 1.. as it ran at the same time as arrow season 3 which was lacking but still okay. You mentioned oliver being an emotional whiner as one of the biggest problems that came up, along with getting pitted against people he couldn't realistically beat, but I think an even bigger one was that he kept getting jumped and captured by people who couldn't have, like that cop in the one episode in season 4 getting the jump on him. This is the guy who just beat Ra's al Ghul a season before ffs. But at the end of the day, they are cw shows.. teen drama and romances were the game on that channel and they leaned HEAVILY into that eventually.. and the writing got worse each year for flash, where arrow kind of bounced up and down and quality.
Supergirl started alright but then became more of a checklist for wokeness instead of a superhero show. The biggest issue with that for me is dreamer.. the dreamer's powers are passed down from woman to woman in the family and that's used to show that she was a woman after all... great fine.. but then winn comes back and starts talking about knowing her descendant in the future.. except.. how? She can't have children.
Legends startred worse than okay, got okay for 2 seasons while the tone got lighter, but then overshot it and became too campy.
Black lightning was decent until season 3's storyline kind of got ruined by the earth's merging.. like, there's a dome around freeland so news of what's happening can't get out, metahumans are being exploited in freeland because they are the only one's in the world.. except now they aren't? and jefferson can fly through the dome at will, bring the cavalry, tell the world what's happening in freeland, and metahumans are everywhere because of the particle accelerator.. so why is that happening in freeland anymore?
Batwoman I enjoyed enough that I wanted a 4th season but was okay when it ended.. it too started to lose focus in season 3 for me.
I know it's not part of the arrowverse, but superman and lois continues to hit hard and is the best thing to come out of the arrowverse. I really hope it gets a season 4
Oh man, Oliver losing to people who should easily beat was a big pet peavey of mine. Great point! Superman and Louis is definitely a good show. It has its flaws like all shows, but I'm enjoying it as well!
I agree. I was really into these shows but I fell off watching these after flash season 2 and arrow season 4. Heck i didn't even finish the season. And team flash should have ended after season 1. It was fine at first having Barry learn his powers but was always annoying
Haha, true. I got sick of hearing Barry complaining about not being fast enough 😂
Deathstroke in Arrow is still one of the most badass villians I've ever seen in a CB show.
Heck yeah! I'd like to see more of him in the DCU!
I agree. Arrow season 1 was excellent, i remembered seeing the last episode and just thinking "wow, what a season". Flash season 1 and 2 were pretty good as well, didn't mind another speedster at this point because they were introducing the multiverse so it was different. But they definitely peaked early like you said. You could tell there were issues when Legends had a somewhat serious first season and then turned into a comedy show. To me, that's going to be the legacy of the Arrowverse - shows that started out strong with a ton of potential what quickly shifted to easiest and more predictable storylines.
For sure! The storytelling just fell off and became a second thought to the romance and teen drama aspects of the show. If only they could have kept those early seasons momentum!
Season 3 of the Flash was quite good as well and really the last time the show was popular
I dunno maybe mot people disagree, and maybe that contributes to the fall, but I do like the "villain of the week" style. I honestly prefer TV shows when each episode is self contained, and sure it has an overarching plot, but still every episode has it's own issues and... and well yeah it's self contained, and near the end of the season the overarching arch starts picking up. Like I don't mind shows like Game of Thrones and such, but they are just movies that have been artificially cut in places to separate the episodes (and really it would work perfectly well as a movie, thing is our society isn't used to 10 hour long movies).
Hey that's fine my friend! Everyone has their preferences. Like you said, I'm more of a Game of Thrones type show guy. But doesn't mean the other way is wrong! Did you think one of the CW shows did the "villain of the week" story type better than the others?
I agree with a lot of what you said. I think the biggest issue in the long run was the teams Greg Berlanti hired. With Arrow and season 1 of Flash he had people that could write tv but also knew comics (Kreisberg and Guggenheim have done both comics and tv). Once we had all the other shows Berlanti hired who he knew and not people right for the job and it hurt the shows.
Also, it's nice to know I'm not the only one that hated Legends. That show bothered me to my core. Besides Arrow and Flash I did enjoy Black Lightning and Stargirl
Yeah, when they hired more soap opera writers than comic writers, we should have known we were in trouble haha. And yeah legends wasn't for me. But I am surprised by how many people left comments saying they love it!
Well Stargirl and black lightning weren’t arrowverse shows the only time black lightning ever interacted with the arrowverse was in the train wreck of an adaptation of crisis on infinite earths the only dc shows I watch now is Superman and Lois I just let Gotham knights run as background noise because it’s Batman related and I’m a huge Batman fan
Based off of what you've listened to so far is Gotham Knights worth a watch?
It's a shame Kreisberg screwed himself over, because I believe he was a big part of why Arrow S1-2, Flash S1 and even Supergirl S1 were great. There was a noticeable quality dip after he was booted off the shows.
@@The0thDoctori agree when Andrew got fired that The Flash went downhill. His 3 seasons of The Flash were great. But after that it went downhill
I think the decline was due to 4 things, The CW should have never added shows like Supergirl and Legends that are so CGI dependent that it took away budget from the Flash. The fall of TV style 23 hour long episodes and the rise of the Disney+/Netflix once a year 10/12 Episode mini series. Most of the OG Showrunners leaving their shows. And The CW seeing $$$ and now knowing when to call it quits and end the shows. The Flash is a prime example, Why keep it going for 9 seasons when it only needed 4 or 5? If you are going to have it run for 9 seasons why not change things up, Why not have Barry vanish in the crisis for a entire season and have Wally take over the mantle of the Flash like he does in the comics? I grew up on the flash and loved it up until season 5. Same thing with Arrow and loved every season of arrow expect 4. Wish that WB could see the changes that was happening with the arrowverse and move the shows to HBO Max or something.
Those seem to be the two biggest opinions in these comments! They should have decreased the amount of episodes per season. And they should have hired writers/directors that weren't satisfied with doing the same thing every season. Either one of those things would have helped the shows out tremendously!!
As a hardcore Marvel fanboy who Reads Ton of comics, i m always looking at DC Characters like the cool Kids in High School. They also have the More Interesting Multiverse, with the earths being limited and Not just random Numbers every Time like in Marvels
I agree, I think DC has the better tools. They just can't seem to execute unless it's animated 😂
The shows do decline in quality though. I think Arrow should have ended after 5 seasons like they originally planned. The flash latest season has like 1 or 2 good episodes and no hope for the finale. Funny enough both good episodes don't involve the side characters and actually focuses on the Flash. I love legends, Supergirl was eh, and I liked the animated shows. Batwoman to trend getting better, but it was cut off short. It's finny that Stargirl had the highest viewership of all CW shows and it originally wasn't even on the CW.
Did you like Star Girl? I personally didn't watch it because, to me, the trailers looked pretty bad. But based on these comments, it seems like a good number of people actually enjoy it!
I would like to compare those shows to their predecessor : Smallville.
Smallville was a risky bet at its time, kinda the first of the modern live action superheroes shows. And as the show went on it became apparent that it tried to do too many things : shove on as many classic comics villains above the "baddie of the week", high school soap opera, coming of age stories tropes... And now we can rewatch it with the nostalgia glasses because it was a product of its time.
Came Arrow then The Flash a little bit after and clearly no lesson was learnt from Smallville. It became even worse as character growth was all over the place and CGI somehow looking like it's from the same period. How the hell did they think they could apply the same formula, a test formula, a decade later replicating what wasn't liked and get an audience for it ?
That's a great way to look at it! They fell into the same potholes 2x In a row! If they had learned from Smallville, the shows might have been very different!
I haven't seen all Arrowverse shows but for me it was a couple of things. The 23 episode seasons, too long. As the seasons progress all of the main characters become superheroes and less about the main hero. The bad guys were really good in the early seasons, Zoom, Reverse Flash, Deathstroke, Ra's, Merlin, Savitar, then there is a significant drop off in quality
Yeah a lot of people say a hero is only as good as his villains. Unfortunately for us they went down hill fast!
This was the perfect breakdown. I loved Arrow seasons 1-3. Season 4 lost me. I don’t even think I finished it. Flash was good for one season. Then season 2 was awful. I gave up. Lol
Thank you my friend! Appreciate the comment! And oh yeah it got rough later on in both shows haha
Season 2 of Arrow was so good. The Deathstroke casting has to be among the best of all live action superhero works (so not counting Kevin Conroy as Batman) up there with Henry Cavill's superman or RDJ iron man
Manu Bennet was a sick casting. Slade definitely made the second season better!
This video aged like wine…
The Flash’s final episode was, at best, a steaming pile of horseshit.
At least we have Episode 9x10
Haha, thank you my friend! As much as I appreciate your comment, I wish I was wrong, and Flash could have gotten an amazing end to his story in the CW😮💨
Arrow became worse when writers decided to make Oliver a pathetic family man
Angry Oliver>Happy Oliver
@@TheThirdFloorofficial family man Oliver
Do you prefer family man Oliver over the younger version of himself?
@@TheThirdFloorofficial i prefer the younger version
Same here my friend 🤘
Thank You Oliver Queen & Barry Allen for the 2 amazing shows! In a week is the grand Final of the Flash. 11 & 9 years have passed.
Yes! Big thanks to the two of them for some great memories! It's been a fun ride🥲
Imagine arrow but as a 12 episode 45 minute long show on hbo max instead of a 23 episode show on the cw.
That could be pretty sick🔥🔥
The first 3 seasons of LOT wasn’t bad tbh …. S2 of legends was the best season airing out during s3 of the flash, S2 of Supergirl, and it tied with S5 of Arrow .
I'm surprised with how many LOT fans are commenting on this video! While it wasn't for me, I'm glad to see so many people enjoyed it!
@Ocean Man No 💀 S2 was definitely the best tbh bc many ppl didn’t enjoy the Reincarnation storyline with Vandal savage and the Hawks meanwhile in s2 the legion of doom w Reverse flash, Malcom Merlyn and Damien Darhk made the season fantastic… also the inclusion of Steal on team legends was so good therefore that’s why ppl liked s2 the best
@Ocean Man yea no Lmao majority of ppl will will say that s2 was wya better than s1 lol I’m pretty sure that they almost canceled the show bc of how ppl didn’t like s1 lol (although s1 was good in my opinion)
Honestly, Season 2 of Supergirl was where things started going downhill.
To me arrow season one and two and the flash season 1 and 2 are the best,for some reason the quality in both shows seemed to drop when they got to their 3rd season
Agreed! I think there are a lot of factors like budget changes, show-runner changes, and maybe even overconfidence. But either way, you'd think they'd be able to tell a good story from a bad one 🤷♂️
Awesome seasons:
-arrow(s1-s3,s5,s8)
-flash(s1-s3)
-supergirl(s1-s4)
-legends of tomorrow(s1-s3)
Alright seasons:
-flash(s4-s6,s8)
-arrow(s4,s6,s7)
-legends of tomorrow(s4)
Bad seasons:
-flash(s7)
-legends of tomorrow(s5-s7)
-supergirl (s6)
I think the shows should have ended after crisis
I'm glad you included season 5 of Arrow under awesome. Underrated season, in my opinion!
I agree with your points on this. I used to enjoy watching the first two seasons of Arrow and Flash, and the crossovers were some of my favorite episodes. But, as they kept going, I enjoyed them less and less. I stopped with Arrow at the Crisis of Earth X event, and somehow finished Flash at the end of season 5. The acting was alright and many of the actors did what they could. However, the writing just got worse and worse as they focused less on the actual superhero story and more on the drama. It was more effective when it started spreading to other shows. I couldn’t get into Legends or Supergirl, I was hyped for Batwoman but immediately stopped after episode 3, and felt no excitement for the next show that I stopped watching completely.
I don’t hate the Arrowverse, they had a decent run and many of the actors did the best they could with the work they had. I just feel sad with how this franchise ended.
I agree! A lot of the actors did a pretty dang good job, especially with how bad the writing was! The only bad thing about that is now we're tormented with how good these actors and shows could have been if the writing was good!😂
I remember wanting so badly for Zoom to take off his mask and reveal Tony Todd underneath (The voice of Zoom)
To this day I am still a huge fan of the Arrowverso and I really enjoyed several seasons of the series. But I must admit that there were moments in the series that were even annoying and worse... boring. Characters that contributed absolutely nothing and backstories of characters to try to make them interesting and the opposite happened, they were more tedious than before. Even among the villains of the Arrowverse, there is a lot of boredom in their plots and purposes that make them look mediocre. I could name several of those villains. But despite that, I enjoy the main characters, even though in some chapters they seem to be seen as secondary characters.
I agree with everything you said! Loved parts really disliked others. It had a lot of ups and downs haha
@@TheThirdFloorofficial Unfortunately they lost focus in several seasons and featured secondary villains that were even more interesting than the main villains of the seasons at the time.
You just described most of everything I felt about my love/hate relationship with the arrowverse. (Except supergirl and LOT. I enjoyed those until the end.) It wasn't until I started watching izombie and toyko ghoul (both highly recommended watching by the way.) That I realised, what kind of abusive relationship I got myself into. (All promises, no payoffs.)
Ohhh I'll keep those in mind! And yeah, it hooked us all in, and at most times, let us all down... here's to hoping James Gunn treats DC better than what it's gotten so far!
The flash was so badass in the first 3 seasons and arrow aswell
I agree! It was like they were different shows in the earlier seasons🔥
Arrow was definitely my favorite arrow verse show. Specifically seasons 1(my favorite season),2,5,the first half of 7(solely because of Oliver’s prison arc), and 8. I also watched the flash and legends of tommorow but I stopped watching Legends after season 5 and the flash after episode 3 of season 7(after they defeated the villain with the power of friendship) because by that point I lost the ability to enjoy the shows at all. Although I did watch episodes 9 and 10 of the last season of flash only because Oliver was in one of them and Matt Letscher as the RF was in the other.
I feel the same way about arrow, the best show for me as well! And yeah the later seasons of the other shows got tough to watch due to the writing. It stinks that it seems like it pushed so many of us away despite being so invested early on 😮💨
One thing I will say about some aspects of Legends Of Tomorrow was that sometimes it was silly but it also didn't take it self seriously. It was at the point of can Athletic superheros keep up with Superpower superheroes? No of course not but hey let's make for some silly team comps and ideas in a show where Villain of the week ACTUALLY MADE SENSE.
Great points to me of any or all of the shows
Where they tried to ground the world in a sense of realism.
The episodes or plot lines that focused less on power but more on psychological manipulation (Not the emotional abuse of the heart lines but more the malipulation of the heroes values, identity and confidence)
Some of the comic accurate parts or attempt to keep something consistent.
Down points
As many have said show format really retired in relevance from around year 3-5 (2015) as audiences really moved from week to week show's to BINGE stream show releases or some of the streams being week to week but of lower episode count and more focus on an A plot connecting episodes than B or C plots over 1-3 episodes
Now I'm not completely anti-WOKE but around the same time 2015-2019 a lot of the WOKE story lines really over saturated the values of the show. It's great for heroes to teach about being inclusive and respect for others as a message to young viewers, but it was a bit RICH for what the ARROWVERSE started as, Gritty Realism-ish HERO story.
Storyline rights and access getting in the way of recreating the heroes people love from the comics. Whether it be different networks trying to cash in on Arrow and Flash S1-2 success by creating a new universe only for the viewers to rightly say "Arrowverse is my TV version of DC, DC Comics is all connected, TV versions that aren't connected aren't worth my investment as I lack the ability to keep them seperate when they are all week to week" Having different worlds kind of works on the streaming side of things Titans isn't as GREAT as Arrowverse but it's not trying to be (atleast at the start) and it's mostly not trying the same story format so the viewer isn't as jarred by the disconnect between universes.
The whole having to dodge mentioning Batman or Superman but still hint that they're a thing in the world just subtracted. Either use or achknowledge the character and take the responsibility to either flesh them out or write them out as viable help.
trying to pander to an audience the original shows seasons weren't made for, that of Young ADULTS with an interest in Real world adjacent superheroes. Honestly it could have worked if they split this greater connected universe into two sererate universes of connected SHOWS and Characters.
The ARROW Realism/Cult "Gritty" universe: (Target Audience/Theme: ADULT Matured Smallville fans/Dark, Near-Realism)
With mostly the Athletic level of hero, with only a touch on supernatural traits of rare scientific mutations like Deathstroke/Ra's, tech based power (fine to exaggerate), with some cult level magic system that has huge risk, requirement, commitment or downsides. These SHOWS/character stories would be:
ARROW, CONSTANTINE, TITANS (no STAR GIRL, SUPERBOY), Ray Palmer, Damien Dhark, Deathstroke, Ra's al Ghul, even Some aspects of LEGENDS, BATWOMAN. Some aspects of BLACK LIGHTNING, Even Barry Allen but NOT as the Flash.
The POWERED SHINY SUPERHERO "Spectacular" universe: (Target Audience/Theme: Family Drama, next gen of young comic fans / Super powers, Value teaching, Light, Unrealistic, Campy)
With More of the Superpower level of hero SUPERHERO's of Flash and Supergirl being completely unrealistic and light hearted where you can even put in your soup style love story lines, and focus on WOKE issues or other Value teaching moments of the DRAMA genre
SUPERGIRL, FLASH, Stargirl, Superman and Lois, POWER side of Legends, Vixen, Multiverse storylines (Earth 2, Earth X, Crisis), DOOM PATROL, SMALLVILLE
You could also see a more Dark version of the powered superhero universe "DARK SUPER" if you focused on: SUPERMAN AND LOIS, DOOM PATROL, TITANS.
Keeping the Gritty and Spectacular universes separate would allow both to run for a long time.
If you mix them as CW did or if you ran the DARK SUPER universe you would have to keep it under 5 years/seasons, as to keep the focus on the story being told without reality being inconsistent or the story loosing integrity.
I've broadened my show example beyond what CW had to include as much of the DC TV shows as I can recall as a lot of them started standalone but it's common for them to either show reference or collide (Haven't watch all of them like Stargirl, The Ray)
Dang dude, you know your stuff! What great points, mixing the two types of shows was definitely an impossible task, and splitting them up would have been a great solution. Thank you for sharing these awesome thoughts! 🙏
Actually disagree I think season 5 of arrow is good.
Season 5 of Arrow is one of the ones I said I liked! The rest of the seasons around it... not as much😂
I love The Flash, but Thawne is way overdone! I think that Thawne is the worst part of The Flash season 8!
I love reverse flash. But I will say they do lean on him way too much to save the series
@@TheThirdFloorofficial I don’t even feel like he’s saving the series at this point, he’s used so much that I think he is just a bad character at this point!😰
died faster than marvel for me.
One thing I appreciate about arrow is that the writers and showrunners learned from their mistakes. Season 3 wasn’t the best and 4 was trash so they gave us season 5. Season 6 started great, fell off at the middle, but the last few episodes were great, and the finale was too. Then the prison arc of season 7 was fantastic, stayed consistent for bit, fell off at the end of the season again, but season 8 was amazing and the finale was beautiful.
With the flash it was really just seasons 1-2, 3 was good but really only because the quality nowadays is trash, 4 was bad besides devoe, 5-8 were bad as well, and so far the final season isn’t looking good. Episodes 1-8 were bad, 9-10 were good, and 11 was kinda bad.
Supergirl has been bad since the beginning but the first season was the best
Batwoman has been trash the whole way through
Oh and legends:
I thought legends of tomorrow had a bad first season besides that one episode with future Oliver queen. Season 2 was great. 3 and 4 were okay. 5-7 bad
Love the breakdown! But I have a question for you. Do you hold it against the CW and all the directors for allowing the show to rise and fall in quality so frequently? Or do you think they should be applauded for achieving these highs despite having very little to work with in regards to budget and characters from DC?
@@TheThirdFloorofficialI’m just now seeing this 💀 but I think it’s a mix of both. I feel like this all comes down to the issue of the showrunners and writers being moved across shows like the writers for arrow seasons 1-2 left to do the flash seasons 1-2, and they did Superman and Lois. They were the best because all of their projects were the highs of the arrowverse, but in all honesty they probably should’ve just either wrote all the shows or just stayed on arrow.
Another thing is that Greg Berlanti did for television what WB couldn’t do for their movies and that’s creating a full fledged universe, i think he gave too much free will to writers and showrunners to where they could basically do whatever they want and I think he should’ve been a bit more strict, especially on Eric Wallace
I’m the type of guy to give praise and criticism when due and I do think some people can be a bit too harsh on Arrow because I do consider it to be the best live action superhero show. I give it that over Daredevil and the Punisher simply because they never got to finish where Arrow ended where it should and even throughout the bad seasons there was still something enjoyable and Oliver Queen’s character development was done great in every season.
@@TheThirdFloorofficialand the fact that they did all of this on a tv budget is insane although I think they should’ve focused more on projects that relied more on practical effects instead of cgi. Having The Flash, Supergirl, and Legends definitely took up a lot of their budget just for the later seasons to not look good visually anyway
I loved the first season of the Flash. IMO they picked the perfect person for the role. I fell out of with the show as the seasons went on. The Flash quickly became a sidekick in his own show.
Ohhh, what an interesting thought! Who do you think took over as the main protagonist?
@@TheThirdFloorofficial IMO the producers chose to make "Team Flash" the focus of the show. Barry became the team mascot. That subtle format change turned a superhero drama into a soap opera.
Dang, I couldn't agree more! You have a great way at looking at the show!