Characteristics of Narcissistic Suicide | IGOR WEINBERG
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2023
- What are the characteristics of suicide in people with narcissistic pathology? How is it different from that of people suffering from major depression?
Dr. Igor Weinberg is a psychotherapist and expert on pathological narcissism, personality disorders (BPD and NPD) and suicidal behaviors. He works at Harvard Medical School & McLean Hospital.
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Studio Comma The, LLC and BorderlinerNotes expressly disclaims responsibility and shall have no liability for any damages, loss, injury, or liability whatsoever suffering as a result of reliance on the information in this publication. If you or someone you know is considering self-harm or suicide, it’s okay to ask for help. 24 hour support is provided by www.hopeline-nc.org (877.235.4525), suicidepreventionlifeline.org (800.273.8255), kidshelpphone.ca (800.668.6868).”
Enormous shame activated through collapse of the narcissistic structure. I saw it in a person very close to me on one occasion and my strong feeling was thinking at the time of the completely overwhelming helplessness after a complete collapse could easily be a lethal suicide trigger.
How can I make a Narc collapse?
Many have flying monkeys that stabilize their false reality.
This one hit home. I chose to go back to school to regain my self-esteem.
As a successful collapsed narcissist there is no help. I've tried to explain this. I've tried for a year. Local help is unaware. Telling others always result in them thinking that this is just some kind of depression. They think I can just change. It's gotten so bad that I just think I'm in a world that no one understands. How do I tell people that I'm a narcissist and only love myself.
what is successful "collapsed" narcissist?
That took guts. You took the first step. Ironically, the method to heal is the same method used for addictions of different types. The 12 step methods. ❤
There is also numbness and emptiness, not always unbearable emotional pain (that shows on the surface anyway). The inner emptiness is scary.
@@christopherleubner6633I was thinking about this only a few minutes ago! AA literature stresses that one must hit bottom before experiencing a true willingness to be honest.
Hey @user-kp8tx6zv4r
I definitely sympathize with that point, and I do believe there is a few resources for people to reclaim their love. I’ve seen some other videos on this channel discussing how it’s like a separate self is being fed in order to keep their shame at bay. It can be a bit of a challenge to get people to understand where a person is coming from, especially someone who deviates from the so called norm. Even people with less conspicuous disabilities or mental disorders have a hard time explaining themselves. I’m thinking predominantly of high functioning autistic people, people with BPD, and even autoimmune disorders which people seem to dismiss (ie fibromyalgia and lupis).
You’re definitely not alone in your struggle and I’m so sorry that you feel as though no one understands you rn. I genuinely believe that your love and care can be recovered and inevitably recognized by others if you devote yourself to it.
I’m not an expert but I do know some UA-cam channels that have been helpful around self betterment with an emphasis on psychological health. They are as follows: BorderlinerNotes, Jung To Live By, and Mark Tyrrell.
I hope this helps and I wish you all the best on your journey.
Cheers bud
I was born into a family with generations of narcs. None of them would ever commit suicide. People who commit suicide in my family are the ones dealing with the insanity of being stuck in a narc family.
I can't watch this. My daughter is 700km away, alienated from me and isolated with a baby, and controlled by her narcissistic father. There really is nothing I can do.
@@gypsylee73then go away lol. You’re not being forced to watch. Watch that which confirms everything you already believe and justify your hatred like most people do regarding NPD.
@@plantman4444 gypsylee73 expressed no hatred. You, however, reveal more than you intend.
@@Alsatiagent it’s evident. It’s not the video to watch if you’re wanting to hate on people with NPD. I don’t really care what I seem to reveal. I’m stating clearly now, I’m sick of whiny people moaning about those they’ve diagnosed as NPD because of some bad experience. And they use it as nothing more than a tool to hate. It’s a personality disorder. It comes from trauma. Take the whining bullshit somewhere else.
If it's intergenerational then it's possible that other things are in play too. My sister's kids just got diagnosed as having ADHD. Their behaviour exactly like hers when she was younger. Thinking about it made me realise it probably went through a lot of my dad's family. Explains a lot of the behaviour of people in the family, including cousins and those in earlier generations.
Narcissism (or pathological narcissism) can seem like an internet phenomenon or category or craze, but it's not. And it's not a synonym for "abuser." My comment is in response to viewers who may equate NPD with "abuser" or those who come from a kind of pop culture understanding versus... what is actually the case i.e. there exists decades of literature, research, theory and practice, attempting to understand and treat narcissism (since Freud), psychoanalytically and beyond. Not a clinician here, just a student. The internet can be amazing (like this channel) but can also misguide.
I'm diagnosed NPD and this was very refreshing to read; gives hope that there are people - young people - out there who see past the flippancy and have an earnest interest to approach pathological narcissism appropriately.
I'm pursuing academics next myself and I hope there are more like you - regards.
Riiiiiiight…my Narcissist mother’s side of my family tree were the S!ave Owners of the Old South.
Narcissists who are not abusers? Pull the other one, it has a bell on it. 😂
@@rw7975 I’m not young :) but thank you 🙏🏼
@@alizaofbrooklyn Just took that from 'student' but the sentiments remain - thank you.
Abusers can be from any cluster or even healthy ppl
That idea of the fantasy of suicide "tying everything together" is very real. I have multiple narcissists in my family who expressed desires to commit suicide, but their focus was more of trying to get sympathy and regret from the people that hurt them than just trying to relieve the immediate turmoil--there was a sort of belief that they could get something out of it beyond the grave. Whether their religion/spirituality actually accommodated that fantasy isn't something I will ever know, but the idea that "once I'm gone you'll all wish you could take what you said back" was maybe simultaneously a threat as well as a verbalization of that fantasy.
And then, at the same time, I still felt compelled to respond as though there was an immediately risk of suicide. I will also never know if they were seriously contemplating or more in their own fantasy land. Not really my place to find out, either.
I think that all these mental diagnosis don't exist it's pathetic. I am always wanting to die not because I want attention but because the world is so depressing for so many reasons I don't want to get into because the list is so long so if that makes me a narcissist then I guess I am...a pathological narcissist at least i could put a name to it I guess *cue eye roll* but when you have been treated like poop for so long and were groomed by your own cousin that's three years older then you why want to live? I don't see my family for a reason if I did I'd off my cousin. I can't wait until the day I die I really can't wait. I don't want anyone to rescue me I just want to die. Plus if their is a Heaven their are many people I would like to see I should probably right the list right now. But I am so sick and tired of these mental diagnosis. Oh you have BPD, anxiety, major depression, now Bipolar 1...just shut it Psychiatrists you're all getting paid a commission off of me and now that I know that I will help myself out. Guess I'm the smartest person ever because I now know what is going on. Always thought I was stupid nah I was just ignorant. Makes me happy knowing the truth of this crap world.
That sounds more like the typical borderline dynamic. Of course borderline is also a type of pathological narcissism, as all types from the cluster b, but the difference between the borderline (bpd) "suicidal" template and the classical narcissist (npd) suicide templade is that the narcissist is not really making all these empty threats, he just snappes during an episode of narcisstistic modifcation (a state of vulnerability brought by a life crisis) and then executes his suicide.
The suicide rate of people with npd is way higher than the suicide rate of bpd. They (borderliner) talk about it or just want to make it appear as they tried to kill themselves in order to get attention, guilt trip, making other people dependend etc. Simetumes they kill themselves during it, by accident if you will, bc it is all about narcissistic supply for the borderline. Yes, they are depressed, way more depressed than the classical narcissist, but they don't have the guts to kill themselves for the most part, bc the borderline also wants to stay in the victim role, so they are kind of addicted to pain and suffering, beeing seen as weak...the narcissist wants to avoid pain and being seen as weak by others, thats why he kills himself.
@amorfati1990 You're right in there being overlap. Especially with one in mind, she clearly has symptoms of both, without talking your ear off. She used her suicidality as a weapon in a "battle of the sickest" when the situation called for it--she could be the smartest, prettiest, wealthiest, one with the best job, whatever. What mattered most to her is that all eyes were on her in a room for whatever reason, even if it meant grossly misrepresenting who she was. If she didn't get what she wanted, she could switch from a more grandiose to a more vulnerable state of mind. She had gone on tirades before about how "she suffered more than anyone else" (I'm the best at being sick). She saw herself as a broken person *whom everyone else owed something* for depriving her of the wealthy, glitzy life and youth she wanted. If she was humbled in any way, she could collapse.
@@TheHouseElfIf somebody gets to that point, they're right.
I appreciate all these expert interviews!!
Highly informative and eloquently expressed. Thank you.
Continued thanks for this channel
Good, articulate, well presented.
What about suicidal ideation in the life partners of the narcissist?
Narcissistic abuse dismantles you as a person. My ex already has one girlfriend who ended herself, another who almost died due to ODing from drugs he provided and then myself who skirted the edge of not wanting to live after being subjected to his mental manipulation and abuse.
You can probably find a lot of videos on that my friend. There is probably a lot of support for what you need.
@@huhwah5387 no. There is not. People who haven’t experienced it cannot imagine how badly it affects another person.
I understand more about his disorder now but it doesn’t excuse his behavior. He knows. A grown man doesn’t sit you down at the beginning of a relationship and tell you that he has “abandonment issues” caused by his mothers abuse when he was small. He’s went to see a therapist once. Long enough to get a diagnosis and then leave.
It’s a shame. There’s very little help for people like him or the people like me, who became collateral damage.
@@InvisibleBorderlineUA-cam is full of these videos this is not what the video is about
@@InvisibleBorderline i understand you…it’s so damaging that people (even therapists) that never experienced it CANNOT understand. Period. (without blame them for this)
@@marcosiviero494you’re on the wrong video. This video isn’t about how to “heal” from an abusive relationship with a narcissist or about having sympathy for a narcissist who is suicidal. The video is simply intended to provide INSIGHT into the thought process of why some narcissists commit suicide. When we talk about suicide we always assume it’s cause the person was battling depression or mental illness. Revenge suicide is a very taboo topic that most people skirt around. I’m glad this video is bringing it to light.
There are a plethora of UA-cam channels on “healing” from narcissistic abuse. But The only way to heal from any traumatic experience is to learn to ACCEPT that you cannot control the past or what happened to you in the past, nor can you control what other people say and do. Forgive yourself and Let go of those thoughts and emotions that are keeping you miserable. Let em go. That’s the only way to heal and finally feel at peace. The unfortunate part is, no therapist or any other human being can do that for you.
Thank you)
Unfortunately for narcissists, there is no help out there for them and people will actively (and quite ironically) push them, on purpose and with glee to exit early. It's a funny little twist of fate and I've never seen any other illness or issue for which everyone universally wishes these people death. EVERYONE. I assume that this would lead to suicidal ideations as the world turns their back on these individuals for something they seemingly cannot fully control. I had a doctor tell me they've told their narcissistic patients that suicide is the only cure for their condition and they should NEVER seek relationships.
Woman can be incredibly vicious with this label; if the person is not, in fact, a narcissist but something akin to it, or something that shares similar behavioral issues, they will apply this label and down the person goes as everyone has a breaking point when someone (usually an angry 'victim') is spreading rumors about this condition and making all avenues of success and progress impossible for these people.
The state of things is this: Narcissistic personality issues is a death sentence. The victims become monsters in the process.
I know a female overt narcissist i just recently got away from and i tell you it was hell...she always wanted to compete with me she just lost her job and went completely silent...i just wandering if she is thinking about offing her self???
Eeeegorrrr!
Rebbys comment at 9:40 will result in someone's suicide who is being bullied. She needs to get some awareness.
I had re watch that part a few times I couldn’t believe what I was hearing, she literally said it’s not wrong for them killing themselves , I kept re-watching because I couldn’t believe that’s what she meant, but seems to be straightforward . that’s what she meant. That them committing suicide isn’t wrong
A scenario of the boy who cried wolf......nobody will respond..............
🎯
Its possible a narc who plays victim for sympathy and attention could idealize suicide as a means to regulate their emotions during a painful experience. They are usually immature because they dont self reflect or go within. They live in their ego,
What does it mean "they feel like it's the only way"? If that's the way they truly feel, then that is actually true for the individual, and whatever brought them there is what needs to be looked at, not them. The social conditions, despite whatever possible surface level appearances, would have to have been terrible enough (beyond imagination) to get someone to that point. There's no such thing as "self-"esteem. There's personal esteem that's maintained through whatever recognition by another of the value in, primarily, one's throughout and the balance/dynamic that's inherent to it. Suicidality is a result of this sort is a result of the core imploding and a completely collapse of self-identity and any authentic psychological needs as a result. I would argue that whoever carelessly brought them to that condition should be held responsible because it could only have been out of serious betrayal (of trust in every given form) that someone could be brought to this.
Under the present societal conditions, the least pathological person (and the strength it would take for that) is the same person who, ironically, can most easily be severely traumatized, going from the least to the most pathological pre/post whatever trauma. It's way too easy to happen if you stand against the grain of the psychopathic landscape we inhabit (modern day society).
Narcs love empathetic guys like this.
My thoughts exactly.
Most people like empathetic individuals. I perceive your implication to be people who exhibit pathologically narcissistic traits are undeserving of empathy, that we will take advantage of such an empathetic individual.
Not all people with NPD are monstrous. Many of us are capable of compassion and kindness. We are created by abuse. And many of us are capable of positive change.
@@jaimebanks8377 I realize there’s a spectrum. I’ve witnessed narcissists displaying what I thought to be genuine empathy. However, their empathy was limited to circumstances similar to what they themselves had experienced. If they couldn’t relate, they felt no empathy. I’ve also read the comments of self aware narcissists who said they were earnestly working on modifying their behavior because they didn’t want to hurt others. One would need the capacity to be compassionate over all to have that goal.
I could have empathy and give compassion to and engage with a narcissist working on self improvement IF s/he were being transparent and taking responsibility for misconduct. It’s not about whether or not it’s deserved. It’s about earning it. That said, I’d be extremely cautious with such a person. I highly doubt their ability for compassion and kindness eliminates the negative behaviors but, I hope, should temper them.
My disdain was directed at the therapist, not the narcissist. I’m very aware that narcissists high on the spectrum are very skilled at presenting themselves to be someone they are not. Had his discussion been balanced with the dynamics of narcissistic abuse and how he and his clients address that aspect then I would have had some confidence in him. But he didn’t. For me, he came across as a bleeding heart who doesn’t fully appreciate the disorder. Or perhaps worse, has had the wool pulled over his eyes too many times.
@@jaimebanks8377 hello. I really wonder about that. are you narcisist and you feel compassion and kindness? how does it feel? do you also love some people? and what does it feel like? thank you!
@@jaimebanks8377then you are not NPD.
The mind and emotions of a child…”You’ll be sorry you washed my mouth out with soap when I go blind from soap poisoning.”
--Ralphie. (paraphrased from “A Christmas Story.”
; )
poor narcissists 😥
Too much to hope for. Trump won't commit suicide.
What a tacky comment, says a lot about you
WHO CARES ABOUT THE NARCISSISTS stop focusing on the abusers and start working on victims of abuse.
How are victims of abuse going to be helped unless NPD is better understood and possible treatments developed?
You clearly have a distorted view on both the disorder itself and its ethiopathogenesis ,furthermore there is plenty of literature and clinical theory available for the threating of abused patients.
While on the other hand effective treatment for narcissist personality disorder is just beginning to develop,spreading knowledge will lead to a better understanding for everyone of the disease.
Plus i would like to remind you that the spectrum of the NPD is pretty wide,not every narcissist is an abuser just like not every Antisocial personality disorder is a murderer or a criminal, generalizing such a disease creates stigma and ignorance around it,which is detrimental for everyone
AW , Come , on. javd is just trolling.
Besides, narcissists and BPD all feel ,and may be, victims of abuse
from those with the same disorder, often in their families
or from whatever genetics or space rays responsible from their disorder.
Suicidal ideation and risk are frequent, and as Weinberg says, just need a sufficient trigger.
Look at the wave of suicides in Germany as they lost the war, or the Japanese "harikiri"
If you've been on the receiving end of mistreatment at the hands of a narcissist I'm sincerely sorry for what you've had to endure.
With that in mind I have 2 points I'd like to make here:
1st, narcissists are very often victims of abuse themselves. It's a common cause of NPD. I'm not excusing their behavior but they are also deserving of concern & understanding.
2nd, this is a video about suicide and your comment is very harsh and not helpful to either a suicidal narcissist or those he's abused...
How about try helping everyone instead of just putting all people in a box? But then again I understand my brother is narcissistic and he tried to drown me when I was younger. Idk it's tough...I'm like right in the middle. Also my brother put a gun to his head and tried to murder himself that's when my parents took him to the hospital. My parents aren't that bad but emotionally they are like 10 year old's and I'm just not that way.
One of the self-aware pwNPD that I follow on youtube has shared publicly that he once attempted suicide as a means to hurt and “show” those who hurt him how badly they hurt him. He wanted to get even in that way… which I can actually understand. My pwNPD and I have had a few breakups, and it always occurs to me that maybe he doesn’t know how badly his behavior hurts the people he claims (or once claimed) to love. Suicide would “show him” (or one would like to think so…), but I wouldn’t never go through with it.
If you're talking about 'mental healness' I'm pretty sure that guy is a fraud.
Just endorses and parrots 'muh narc' talking points... I don't think he's even diagnosed and he doesn't have any understanding of the actual disorder.
@@rw7975 Actually, I wasn’t referring to mental healness, but I have had similar feelings about his channel. He isn’t catering to anyone but “abuse victims.” He certainly doesn’t discuss what drives npd or its behaviors. The same is true with “Raw Motivations.”
what are some good sources of people with the actual diagnosis?
@@amatrix6 Jacob at “The Nameless Narcissist” and Sara at “Cluster B Milkshake” are two good ones.