Vision Pro for Dev after one week
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2024
- I've been using the Apple Vision Pro for almost a week. Here are the good things, the bad things, and how I've used it for software development.
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finally a developer perspective on vision pro, thank you!
More to come!
i couldnt stop laughing when the cup hit the vision pro.
Same here, I think this is the new classics.
Yeah eating and drinking is hard with the AVP
I like coffee too.
@@saitarohi, what
does this mean?
This is the biggest killer for using the AVP for dev. What's a dev without being able to drink coffee and code 😝
Thank you, I have searched soooo many videos for a few things, and you are the first person to address some of them! I wish you talked about these things a bit more, but thank you for touching on how you can use the Apple Vision Pro with a Magic Keyboard, in particular for programming without pairing a Mac! (I don't have a Mac)
Glad it was helpful!
I don’t think you’re going to be using this for programming without a Mac. Because, well basically, Xcode requires a Mac and that is the only way you can program for visionOS ATM. And you wouldn’t really use it for any other programming task, except to make a UA-cam video 😉
@@toadlguy You can program other things so it would be really good if they add PC support especially cause its much more popular
If they made iPhone compatible with PC they can make it with vision pro too
You can program in browser but you can't compile and debug
I could see using VNC with a Desktop, that you have exposed to the internet. Then just connect to it from anywhere, and program on it, like it was a laptop you had with you. Then you can do anything. However I just don't think it's where I would want it to be yet, to do that. Just to much work to setup, vs using a laptop. I think one thing that would be awesome, and bring me closer to useing it, is do what Parllels does, and allow you to bring a windoes or mac app into the Vision Pro work space, that would be awesome.
I’m also a developer with a Vision Pro and this movie was pretty spot on with the same criticisms and praises I would’ve had
I agree with all of this. I actually tried to do engineering work in several situations. It’s almost there but I can really only code for like 30 minutes or an hour with AVP. I have not built up the stamina for it yet. I do love being able to have a HUGE screen away from home.
@@SwiftySanders I have noticed that after the first couple-hour session with it that later sessions seemed to go a lot easier with less strain so maybe it’s more a matter of adaptation over time. I think I’m going to keep mine for now.
@@pmarreck Good to hear other people are thinking similarly about software development with this device.
Can you resize the mac mirrored screen more than what was shown in the video or is it the max size already? Or would bringing the screen almost right up to your eyes and increasing the resolution work as an alternative for a big screen?
@@blackwersus yes you can resize it like any other window.
You're reviews are always the best, so informative and straight to the point while also being funny. Can't stop watching!
If you could open native Mac windows in the Vision Pro you wouldn't be limited to a screen at all, you would just open bunch of them and have them around you.
I'd like to do this for recording music, you could have the DAW floating wherever you're playing instead of always having to go back to the laptop.
Yes absolutely. It's completely absurd that they want people to carry their MacBook around, AND open up the screen, just to have a useless black screen in front of you. Instead of giving the VP the ability to natively open Mac apps. It has an M2, so it definitely could run those apps natively.
Exactly! That's what was in my mind, why not just integrate this feature to Mac os when paired with the vision pro, it'll surely be a killer feature
@@JonasViatte I don't think it's a question of them not wanting us to do that. It would take a lot more work for them to make that work smoothly, but I'm sure they're working on it.
@@Lunyaaaa More likely, they're going to slowly unify software development around the same frameworks and slowly deprecate older frameworks used in macOS. They want new development to use the new stuff so they will be able to slowly move everyone over when things are ready. Why else do they focus on iPadOS (iOS) apps instead of Mac?
In other words: They'll let you use that stuff for now if you have a Mac, but they're trying to transition everything away slowly. Also see: Catalyst apps. The future is making apps for "Apple" not "Mac/iPadOS/iOS/tvOS/etc." It might not all be ready yet, but it's written in the sand.
@@Lunyaaaa I am prerty sure they are not. Apple has never released a feature, that helpes you to not buy another Apple product. This is why the ultra powerful iPads don't do more, and why the Mac's don't have touch screens.
this is very interesting to me mostly because of how I feel looking at your eyes after you wore the thing, very informative
This is the most usefull video I've watched on the AVP. I think the best device will be lighter, multiple screens a bit like the approach visor by Immersible are apparently working on (remains to be seen in the wild yet) with 5 screens possible and you hook up to any of Windows, Mac, Linux as well and about 1k$. More of a visor than headset. I don't know what the comfortable weight is but the lightest appears to be 250g. The question remains if all the bells and whistles of Apple's approach are necessary for multiple different development projects and options envisioned that galvanizes development and use and interest? But for dev work I think the simpler model approach seems best for all the above reasons.
This video did a brilliant job of showing how the AVP can be used for development and pros and cons some of which you'd only start to consider if wearing for a while but overall adding more screens will make a big difference to AVP for this dev use case, clearly. Did not realize the immersion background could be so nice also. A beach with setting sun seems a nice option?!
Thanks for the informative video. I think the Vision Pro is a good start. I am sure it will be amazing soon.
Great breakdown of gotchas and what to expect!
Fantastic video and really shows the challenges ahead to see what is really required to develop apps for this new product category from Apple.
Did you find that trackpad continuity across MacBook and visionOS apps worked as well as it does on the iPad?
It feels almost the same, but only when mirroring the MacBook screen to the AVP.
Thanks for showing the real experience
Great video, Alex. This is the real use case I am interested in. I’m sure it’s great for movies and such, but it seems that for most dev tasks it may be more limiting than useful so far. I would be interested, though, in how it is for doing AR/VR development. Is it more like an iPhone, where you really just use it for testing, but do the developing out of VR on the Mac? Also how about just VisionOS apps in Xcode for spatial computing?
AR/VR dev is the primary use case for this device, not web dev (or other). I’d say use the simulator most often snd test on the device, but i wouldn’t sit there with this thing on all day
Thanks for the wonderful review - sorry about your coffee mug :) that was a great laugh for the morning. This is exciting, and I hope there will be the ability for multiple functioning desktops, such as when you add a desktop(s) while working with a MacBook. Rather than needing to swipe between desktops, having those in the space you are working in would be interesting to see the functionality. Looking forward to the future.
Just something I'd like to add in case you don't know, theres a setting to change the height of the trigger for control center. The default is really low which is why you likely trigger it accidentally so often. I'd move it to the 5th setting which to me has been the top of my eyesight without tilting my head.
Best review yet 😅
Love how you started it
Very nice video all around. How would you compare the experience to using multiple screens with a Quest 3 and an app such as Immersed?
Good overview!
Immersed running on my M2 MacBook Air & the Quest 3 allows me to have multiple virtual desktops of varying resolutions floating around me, with either passthrough or a virtual environment as my workspace.
It works very well, with crisp text.
Works well on an M1 Pro too. And the basic app is free.
Yah but you didn’t get to spend $4k! lol
Thanks!
What do you think about pressure on our eyes while work with this device? Will it hurt eyes in long term?
Question: Can you not drag the mac's projected screen out to be larger, using the bracket in the lower corners of the windows as you would the native apps? You can set the resolution to be higher then make the screen physically larger, no? Thanks!
You absolutely can. You can set the Max to output at 5k resolution. It’s incredible.
I thought the same thing. Pretty sure I saw in other reviews that they did this.
Yeah, you can absolutely do that. The best effect is actually be a couple of feet away from your table and to “push” the screen out and then walk back to your desk. I have a video where I was playing Call Of Duty on a projected 100+ inch screen.
This was helpful as productivity was one of my primary interests in this device. Knowing the keyboard and mouse can join is good. What about apps like bbedt, notepad++, etc in terms of native compatibility? The VLC hack is great
It's always the chicken or the egg with new Apple products. Without the new device out in the wild, there is no way to vet it and stress test it. While I understand the complaints especially because it is so expensive, this is to be expected on a first gen product. Kudos to Apple for the massive spending and tying up their engineering resources on a spec product that may or may not ever become successful. And that is why Apple has been as successful as they have been, taking chances, and betting the farm on products no one even asked for.
Thx for the video! :)
You bet!
What is the app you were monitoring battery and CPU with?
I think Immersed hinted they are making a Vision Pro app, which would fix the single screen issue. However, as someone mentioned, they are working on the Visor headset that's much lighter/cheaper (I'm still skeptical it'll be everything promised). I've used Immersed on Q3 and love it, but it's still not as convenient/comfortable as coding at my desk with multiple monitors.
i am hoping that Google comes out with a Pixel Vision Pro :)
The location height of the control panel toggle button in your field of view can be adjusted to be less in your direct line of sight in the settings app.
Dude literally the 2 biggest issues I have that I have not seen anyone talk about. The drinking and folding laundry.
When you use the insanely large resolutions for your MacBook display, can you also resize the viewport to be much larger? So I would then have to turn my head a bit to see either side of the viewport (think cinema style)? That seems like the ideal tradeoff if you're giving up all of your other monitors
Nice video. I hope I can test one by myself soon. I live in Germany. This tec is interesting for me because I already work fulltime in VR. I work this way over 3 years now and it works for me.
You can move up the control center dot. Go to settings >> control center, then it’s slider on the top
thanks Alex
Great video! Interesting to see the current state of the VP with every day issues like the coffee mug 😃 I see the potential of a device like this but I think there is a really long way to go. Biggest issue will be the form of the device as the goal would be "normal" glasses with such functionality.
I imagine something like normal glasses which just act like a VR screen and the MacBook is doing all the processing.
You can move the control center button up so it pops up less unless you very explicitly look up inside the headset. It’s a quick fix! 😁
Was genuinely curious if you'll get it. I need a programmer's opinion on whether this would be handy enough once we can put tabs from a single app into separate windows so I can have all my classes opened all around me in VSCode or if it's just a gimmick.
Can you resize MacBook window on Vision Pro from the corner? To make it even bigger
Can you resize the Mac virtual display window. I can on quest 3.
That context menu (Little Green Dot) can be moved higher in your field of view.
Settings > Control Center > Indicator Position
Can you make a video about the vision pro? 🙏
cool review - THX
Thanks for watching!
Sorry if already covered... What is the app that shows CPU usage and whatnotof the VisionPro that you're using at 3:45 ?
Really good video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Good video. Thanks. Cant imagine it, but far far away to get one in Europe
Those videos you make are great.
Glad you like them!
I think that monitoring infrastructure will be great. One screen with Kubernetes dashboard, other with the cloud web console, etc
The pov vids on this is gonna go crazy
Great video, Alex! As a low vision dev, I’m skeptical of being able to use the VP, but you’re helping me visualize hours I might use it. Thanks!
Check a video by James Rath, titled "Blind user tries Apple Vision Pro - Game changer?". He has low vision (95% non-correctable vision) and he has some interesting findings. All the best.
I have an idea for a virtual magnifier with customisable filters for the magnifier.. and the magnifier could be hoving in spot just like any other virtual window.. but would magnify the physical space and could also magnify what is in the virtual windows.
The filters could adjust the level of magnification. they could adjust the brightness.. and could even do color adjustments for people that are color blind. Etc.
@@egrinant2 Thanks for the tip! I’ve always thought that the scanning technology in AR, but not the display/visualization, would be a boon for blind and low-vision users.
@@manp1039 That could be really helpful, having a magnifier fixed/parked in an area of the field of vision what would magnify that area, whether it’s physical or virtual. That is, not have to move the magnifier by hands, but by head.
The problem with VP design, as I understand it so far, is that it relies much more than touch screen on visual cues and eye tracking. Now there’s no tactile feedback whatsoever. At least on touch screens there’s haptic feedback and positional knowledge of where your fingers are on the tablet/phone. Those are problems for blind and low vision users. For eye tracking, how are BVI (blind/visually impaired) users supposed to know where to look. From James Rath’s video, it seems that there’s a way to use head movement instead of eye tracking to point, which is a workaround. A more suitable design would be to strip away the ski goggles and leave the cameras and rely on tactile or audio feedback for the environment, physical or virtual. Maybe put visionOS on an Envision or Rayban glasses. I don’t want to be pessimistic about VP for BVI, so I’m on the lookout for what devs are doing.
There’s a slider in Settingsthat allows you to move the control center button much further up.
Kudos for the cup humour. I really giggled.
The MacBook connection seems to work flawlessly but I have a Mac mini with a third party screen. Does it work the same way?
From my research, you can do it with mini via the context menu only. it won’t automatically pop up the connection dialog
You mentioned about vnc. Can you please share the link or the name of the vnc which i can use to connect my windows and macbook devices remotely? TIA
FYI, you can change the height of the Control Center green pull-down arrow in the settings, if the default height is bothering you.
Thanks. I did that, and it fixed my issue. But now I set it too high, I almost have to look backwards above my head, which would make me look even more ridiculous in public
@@AZisk Oh well. You are returning it, after all. I think that Control Center icon is probably the most broken-feeling element of the UI (it definitely depends on app window locations, which is far from intuitive). It seems like something they should be able to improve on. I made the mistake of upgrading to the 1.1 beta a while ago, so that's the least of my concerns now in terms of bugs.
what I'd like to know, though, is what the productivity is like in a development environment. What I imagine is that you'll be (because writing code is precise), on a physical keyboard to actually get work done. So a lot of the virtual keyboard tech is not a factor, true? So did you do anything with compilation as a part of the workflow, anything where Simulation as you would for developing an iOS app would require, and try in the VPro environment? Or is it just an expensive screen for the MBP?
Great video, also have a Vision Pro and this is the first review that I feel is in sync with my reality. I have not forced myself to dev on it yet and I need to get a Bluetooth keyboard. For me the killer use case is using it to watch movies on a plane. It’s nice to be in another world while trapped in a flying tin can.
Not having multiple screens is a huge deal breaker for me. I use an ultra wide monitor and a standard monitor when developing.
Curious if you can try using the iPad app Duet display in vision OS to use it to get a second display with your MacBook
you can adjust the hight of the pulldown menu button.
Nice video… it gave me more clarity for replacing desktop with Vision Pro 👍🏽
For whatever reason when I close my MacBook Pro M1 it doesn’t allow me to connect to the AVP when not connected to a monitor.
I get brain fog when I have the wrong posture, mainly head position. But I also like to switch up sitting positions a lot. So the main benefit I see with this thing is having a comfortable head position no matter where/how you sit.
This is great, but there’s one other developer scenario that seems very high-potential - creating experiences in WebXR. I’ve learned about the community by working on Glitch (where many WebXR devs hang out), and it’s based entirely on open standards, dev can be done in any plaintext editor and works in most popular browsers (you can even make stuff without owning a Vision Pro!), and since it’s standards-based, the worlds or experiences you create can even run on other platforms. Would love to see what you think of building that way.
One question about 5k resoution. If you place that resolution, can you make the window insanely huge to compensate how small the text is?
tried it, unfortunately that doesn’t work well bc you end up too far away or you move your head too much
How is the 5K when you make the "screen" far larger in your view?
As in, why not look at the corner and drag it out to be bigger?
Might work well for coding to have a cinema screen size display at 5K
7:56 can you scale up the virtual monitor? if that so I think it could be more confortable with the highest resolution
Nice video, thanks for it. I honestly don't use the screen mirroring so much because of the same reasons you mentioned. Coffee, for example, Lol. Since I'm working on an app and a game, I first did a game builder with Lua support. With that, I can work remotely, with unlimited native VisionOS windows and without the laptop. But I'm very much impressed so far with how nicely all works with RealityKit and SwiftUI.
I think the Vision Pro is really exciting! That said, I'm waiting for Vision Pro 5 before I jump in.
have you tried making the screen bigger?
might work with the highest quality
Multiple screens would be amazing for this. And it’d be nice to be able to increase the screen size. Look at however many lines of code is whatever, but squinting isn’t fun. It’d be cool if I could make the workspace larger
Can you scale the virtual screen to be ginormous like 80" or something, and put it 1 meter away to fill entire peripheral view?
Great Video Alex.. I've had an AVP since launch and find your video very well done, I agree with your points. I would add you can make the simulated Mac screen very large, and I don't see a degradation in quality. Weird hack I've noticed is stepping back allows me to make a bigger screen where I want it to be, then walk up to it, and the larger size is retained. While it's not 2 screens, you get very readable large screens, I think mine about 55" on my desk, and takes no space.
Another thing I've noticed, I've switched back to the solo loop and find it as comfortable and much easier to adjust than the other, and the initial heavyness of the unit no longer bothers me, I think it's getting used to it. Sliding the solo loop up and down the back of my head helps to adjust how it lies on front.(I haven't seen anyone cover that yet, but subtle shifts up and down affect how it sits up front)
A tip for drawing/whiteboard, simple place your app on a real wall and use it like a whiteboard with your fingers.. key is to put it on the wall. (I hope they make it so you can place notes flat, being able to push against something, even lightly improves the experience)
i like the drawing hack idea - gotta try that. As for the large screen - yes making the screen large works, but then I have to move my head left/right/up/down too much
I wish that was also the case for the virtual keyboard where you could use multiple fingers on a surface, but the best I could do is hunt and peck with my index fingers.
What I would expect is the ability to position individual application windows around you in space. Not just a fixed resolution virtual monitor in front of you.
Question: Is there a feature that indicates where your eyes were looking during screen recordings? Kind of like showing the location of taps in phone screen recordings.
Having watched multiple demos now, the way the screen is foveated (thus out of focus depending on where you look) is ever-so slightly frustrating as a secondary viewer. But I think it'd help to know where the original viewer was looking at the time of recording. That way my eyes can kind of follow along with theirs to see things more sharply focused.
stellar review for the usecase , grounded clear and exhaustive , also the tone is very pleasant =)
so big nope to vision pro for work, its spacial sure, but not "computing" , more like entertainement and roaming
Thanks for watching!
Immersed on Quest 3 is great for work.
Really want multi screen support for laptops, and bigger resolutions. End of the day my 3 monitors cost over 3k, if I could replace them with the Vision Pro plus have all new vr/ar apps as well, would be prefect. I would love a super large simulated monitor, 120 -180 degrees wide, do a lot of UML modeling and screen size is my biggest problem.
😂 the coffee scene. Just hilarious
what if there is ir sensor on the keyboard and mouse to create a digital keyboard at the same coordinate of the real keyboard to interact with it.
I'm also a developer and I bought it on VisionPro and it's coming at the end of February.
It's funny that it crashes with the cup.
It's funny to think that's me in two weeks.
I'm also planning to use Vision Pro for Windows and Mac (Mac mini, Macbook) to open multiple windows and use it for development.
I tried to develop with Metapro before and failed, but I'm looking forward to it.
But when I tried to make a desert in VR and develop it, I thought it was amazing, but I was a little disappointed to see that the keyboard was not visible.
I'm looking forward to seeing how much better it will be with software updates over the years.
theres an expression that says "going around your ass to get to your elbow". with all the vids ive seen on vision pro for productivity, that expression fits perfectly as far as the justification for spacial computing being the use of multiple "virtual" display monitors rather than one nice physical display like a studio display. still love the vid Alex, keep up the good work.
i agree with this expression. I use “scratching your left ear with your right hand” expression, but yours fits the avp better
@@JosephFeliciano so instead of a sharp 5k display a semi blurry display through a clunky headset is better?
The studio display doesn’t really work for me as well as having multiple displays I can blow up big… but that being said the coding in the AVP is still a bit too blurry for me. I think seeing the foveated rendering needs to be wider and faster because I have to wait a second before I can start coding again because the item has to come into focus instead of mostly already being in focus when I look at it.
yes, rd client app you using in macbook, that same app is available in ipad as well.
Wait.... 11:27 So Apple already has object tracking for their keyboard? They just haven't implemented/released object level passthrough during immersion?
If this gets smaller in size, like eyeglass size, it'd be amazing as I realized as I was testing it that I didn't have to switch between two eyeglasses -- which I do on my computer as I am both nearsighted and farsighted -- as Apple configured my prescription in minutes -- to use it.
i really wonder if it works with non-apple bluetooth keyboards.
I'm not an apple user for years now but just using things like steam-inhome-streaming, shadow and the browser app would be enough for me to use it productively and for gaming I guess.
Do you think that Windows Desktop will ever be able to be used with the Apple Vision Pro? Will the iPad be used like the Mac? Should I just sell my iPad and buy a Mac?
Pls review Xreal Air 2 and when it is released the next model Air 2 Ultra.
Why don't you use maximum resolution and scale the window up?
I am happy about this video
The virtual screen should have an option to become curved if you make it really big
So, do you get only one virtual mac window on the AVP?
The font size on vs code while your are mirroring your screen is very small for me. Maybe I need to try working and see if it is worth it
Thanks for the video. As we move to more advanced process nodes, there will be no need for future Vision Pros to have fans for cooling, which will make the device much smaller and lighter. I'm also hoping for better camera quality and maybe they can use machine learning to fix some of the issues. I want the battery pack to also function as a Thunderbolt 5 dock for wired connectivity. I also want the UI to use 3D objects instead of flat 2D objects.
Watching the tear down videos, the design of this thing is very dense as it is, I'm not sure how they're going reduce the size and weight of the head set. It's going to take a lot of consolidation of parts as well as substitution of materials, that glass and aluminum body is probably weight that's not needed.
I think the battery brick could be a trojan horse, get users used to having it, then just move the processing parts there. They're going to need to make the headset lighter and thinner and this would be one quick way to do it. They could also add a cellular connection and a full function USBC port to the brick. People might not like the idea of a cellular transmitter right next to their head all day, but they're used to having one in their pocket.
The large lighting connector on the battery cord was what makes me think there's something more there. It's rather odd/strange, it's not necessary to have that many pins just for power, 24 pin connectors if there are pins on both sides. USBC also happens to have 24 pins.
Does it support creating multiple virtual displays ?
Why don't they allow you to open several "virtual monitors" and resize them, like, have a big window instead of making it small?
Can you connect an Apple Pencil to the Vision pro?
Great insight, I'm also a developer but I think I'll stick to my Quest 3 for gaming! Couple of things, why on earth did you not make the 5K monitor screen bigger? I was literally screaming at the video LOL and the shortcomings with lack of multiple monitor support can be overcome. I can see they are worried about bandwidth, but it's really not an issue with a good wifi 6 connection, unfortunately it doesn't support 6e like my $500 Quest 3. It should be possible to have maybe two 1440p monitors for example or three 1080p monitors so that should get better in the current headset.
Good video !
Thanks!
How does it affect your eyes 👀 does it strain
Why not set the resolution of the virtual MacBook screen in Vision Pro to the largest possible size, then position it close enough so everything is readable? That way you'd have the screen real estate equivalent to multiple large Mac monitors. Every app window could then be positioned without overlap and enough content to work efficiently. VisionOS apps could be on the periphery.
LOL, how the coffee cup hit the Vision Pro when you tried to take a sip.
I think you can make the screen share window larger