This is Why Games like Baldur's Gate 3 Are So Rare...
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
- The success of Baldur's Gate 3 surprised a lot of people, but the seeds of this success can be found in the history of Larian Studios. In the first episode of By Design, Danny attempts to unpack the development and market conditions that led to this breakthrough RPG hit.
Chapters
0:00 - Intro
1:46 - Design
2:40 - The History of Larian
5:37 - The RPG Genre
7:35 - CohhCarnage on CRPGs
12:47 - Sidebar: The Bioware Question
13:58 - The Market (Michael Douse Interview)
18:36 - The Business Side
23:10 - Conclusion
Produced by Secret Tape for A16Z GAMES
Hosted, Written & Edited by Danny O'Dwyer
Additional Filming by Jeremy Jayne
Motion Graphics by Pica (www.pica.me.uk/ / / vivapica )
Stay Updated:
- Follow us on X: a16zgames
- Follow Danny on X: / dannyodwyer
- Find us on LinkedIn: / a16z
Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures." - Ігри
The quality of the voice acting in BG3 cannot be understated. The game wouldn't have been the same without it.
The narrator puts the bow on this gift
Go find the narrator's outtakes and have a blast. There's five videos in total.
“Tsk’va, this is too much to bear. I don’t want to hurt you. I want to protect you, and for you to protect me. ❤”
BG3 is a very special game. The character progression is absolutely incredible.
Absolutely. Without voice acting, this game would have been tremendously obscure. For better or worse, the market expects full voice acting for games like this. Not only does this game have that, but the actual talent on display is absolutely through the roof. The main cast, including narrator, are of course amazing but so are the side characters. I'm particularly thinking of Raphael, who lives and breathes in large part based off how amazing his VA is.
overstated*
The part about the Bioware is pretty SPOT-ON. A lot of people have individually said that Baldur's Gate 3 feels like the original concept/potential of Dragon Age: Origins, except that now, it's fully come to fruition with AAA production values while doubling down on the deep RPG mechanics. In short, it feels like Larian is the new "Old Bioware".
They've made a lot of tactful, surgical tweaks to expand their audience while remaining uncompromising in other areas and staying true to their hardcore RPG fanbase who supported them from the beginning. Larian have earned their success by every metric and it's marvelous to see. It's rare to be in the middle of playing a game while simultaneously realizing it may just be your favorite game of all time. Baldur's Gate 3 is a triumph.
I totally agree. I've got almost 300 hrs in it, and it felt so different and so familiar in the same time, but it did not know why. Now i get it. Dragon Age Origins. Spot on.
Spot on! BG3 reached the potential Da:O promised
What a wonderful summary! I agree 100%.
I have a multiplayer game going with my brothers and cousin, one of the things we said early on was how much the game reminded us of Dragon Age and Mass Effect.
yeah the writing with focus on players freedom and how it offers players choice due to writing does reminds me of Dragon Age: Origins.
Something I noticed while playing was how much the leveling up screen felt good, like a lootbox tries to feel. But, no lootbox. They took positive, good lessons from even unlikely places.
“Is there a BioWare shaped hole…” yes. DA:O is my absolute favorite game of all time. I didn’t know until I played BG:3 that I had been waiting for this game for 14 years. I haven’t hyperfixated on a game like this since DA:O. I don’t know if I even have the words to express my love for this game.
GOD yes I felt the same. When i started playing I realized I hadnt felt this magic since I had played DA:O
You would like d os 2 as well
@@andyftraildes674 I disagree. DAO is also one of my favorite games ever and there's nothing in D:OS 2 that even came close to scratching that itch.
that writing scale. what Bioware would be if ever 😞
@@Owl90 Everything that appealed to me in inquition and D2, the only things that appealed to me, was anytime there was a reference to DA0 events. Hearing how things had worked out for the companions and the warden. The consequences of DAO choices, hearing responses to DAO choices like Zevran still calling the wound inflicted by the wardens loss "fresh" even after nearly a decade.
Who else is still on their first playthrough not wanting it to end...?
I just finished my first play through which I started in mid-August. Just wanted to keep exploring!
On my 8th and still haven't finish it. So much to find and do.
Still in act one
I'm still not finished and sometimes I dont even boot the game because I'm kinda overwhelmed by the sheer amount of stuff to do and visit.
Sank 110.5hrs into it and I'm only on the cusp of beginning act 3.
I'm continually impressed by how down to earth and intelligent everyone from Larian is in interviews and snippets
You will find this a lot in people from central and northern Europe. It's just part of the culture here, and it lends itself well for collaborative works like this.
@@angelic8632002 I dig it 👍
They're are belgian. They are very levelheaded non emotional
@@1992zorro As a Belgian I can confirm that we have no soul
Except when they intentionally lied about cut content and promoted it two weeks before release.
BG3 came long at the perfect time, in the perfect storm. For many, it reignites and reminds us all exactly why we love gaming and what about those games we want and love.
In a time where greed and buggy unfinished releases are all rife in games - BG3 comes along like a knight in shining armour. Game of the year and potentially, game of the decade ✨
B
It's a masterpiece. It reminds me of 90s games with polished updated graphics. The depth and story and involvement with the characters is truly unmatched
BG3 is full of bugs and inconsistencies. Hogwarts Legacy was flawless.
Year? Definitely. Decade? Dunno man, Witcher 3 exist.
@@512TheWolf512 witcher 3 was the 2010’s friend. Tho no doubt, Witcher 3 was legendary!
Just started bg3, 3 days ago and I can’t recall the last time I played a game this deep. Just the interaction with the environment alone is so rich I can spend hours just exploring the sets and looking for little secrets. All I need is more hours in a day and forgiveness from my family.
You can play in coop, I have drawn my wife in, we play together now, where she makes all the character decision, and its the best feeling ever
You nailed with the comment about the "Bioware sized hole in people's heart reference". Dragon Age and Mass Effect has a massive fandom that continues to play the games, have active reddits, tons of user content created and they are starved of new stuff and also have the realization that it might never be back considering DA4 is looking shaky with all the layoffs and reboots and new Mass Effect is at least 4-5 years out at best. Plus nearly all the people who wrote and designed those games are gone. I follow tons of Bioware fans on twitter and I watched almost all of them fall in love with BG3 in real time as it does capture some of that old Bioware magic in terms of its characters and story and romance too.
Agree 100%. But I’m gonna say big ‘yikes’ to your inadvertent use of the term ‘BioWare magic’ lol
I think it's funny that he seems to consider Bioware RPGs as somehow being in a different genre than Baldur's Gate. Sure, the Mass Effect series has more of an emphasis on action, but it's still a heavily narrative driven RPG at its core. I tried playing Pillars of Eternity (my second attempt) immediately prior to buying Baldur's Gate 3, and it lacks a sense of impact and immersion for me - it feels like it's just going through the motions of D&D mechanics rather than giving you a living, breathing world.
When I started playing Baldur's Gate 3, my first thought was "Yes, this is that Bioware cinematic experience I haven't felt since Mass Effect 2. It feels like the magic of playing KOTOR for the first time." The game feels more than just the sum of its D&D based mechanics - it feels like an exciting world with a compelling crisis to resolve.
also for and as an obsidian fan, BG3 or even DOS2 has dynamic narrative/writing that reminiscencent of FONV 👨🍳💋
Keep an eye on Archetype Entertainment and Humanoid Origin. Both are studios founded by ex Bioware guys.
Yuuuup. I loved DAO. To me, nothing has come close to it since, including DAI and DA2.
I played Pillars, I did like it, but BG3 has all of the animations, voice overs and cutscenes that games like Pillars are missing, which makes it appeal to wider audiences.
That is the difference IMO. People like CRPGs and their mechanics, they just need to not look like they came out in the late 1990s. DAO was proof of that, as well as BG3 now.
Beyond the obvious pain for the staff themselves, the huge number of game industry layoffs as of late really is going to damage that institutional knowledge that many studios have become known for. I worry that executives just think the talent comes from the name on the front door of the studio, not the people inside it.
Well, scumbag executives do think like this with their bags of infinite cash.
This is true.
I'm not sure why they underestimate the success of single player games? I used to play a lot of online PvP games, but there's just so much cheating in video games, I am over it. I now prefer really good single player games, or Co-Op games. Some of my greatest gaming experiences are from the Mass Effect series, The Elder Scrolls series, Red Dead Redemption 2, etc., and now I am really looking forward to Squadron 42 next year. I won't bother with any online PvP games. Online PvE games tend to be toxic. I'm not even sure why some of those people even play online. They spam as much area with foundations as they can, because they don't like neighbors.
It has always been and always will be about # of units=cash and quality as a second seat...now it is more about marketing...and the customer ends up disappointed every time.
Not the case in GW2. @@leroyrussell8766
I have a friend who has only ever played The Sims before who's now in her second Baldur's Gate 3 playthrough, clocking in at 150h
It feels surreal to me because I couldn't ever get her to try ANYTHING before. Even something easy and somewhat immersive like Skyrim.
But Baldur's Gate 3 though ? My god... She's addicted
Game’s absolutely insane. First playthrough right now and I’ve clocked in 30+h. And it still has the feeling of when you sit through the first 2 hours of an average single player game.
I actually think it makes sense when you consider the loop and ui of sims essentially all the core systems lend themselves more to crpg with AAA features than it would skyrim. So cool to see so many new people engage with this genre. As a lover of these games despite being a total failure in playing them well it warms my heart seeing mainstream appeal for deep systems over shallow "rpg" mechanics.
Same here, a friend saw me play it, she doesn't game.No console,pc or even mobile games.Just boardgames.And she said 'we need to play this, I never knew this existed!' . It's double cool since we're both Belgian just like Larian :D
thinkin about it, being a sims player does fits the CRPG or isometric RTS/TT RPG genre. cheers to him/her
Baldur’s Gate 3 definitely feels like the natural progression for the style of games like Mass Effect & Dragon Age. It’s just unfortunate that the original studios who set the standard for the genre haven’t been able to maintain the same quality of storytelling.
BioWare made Baldur’s Gate 1&2
@@starcrysis23 That's his point. They wouldn't be able to make a worthy successor to Baldur's Gate today.
@@starcrysis23 Games were created by people not a name. Everyone who made those games have long since left the company
Never played a cRPG, or even any RPG games, never played DnD, my most played games before this were survival/puzzle/cosy games but BG3 is now my 2nd most played game of all time with 380 hours, and I'm running it on a crappy laptop. I absolutely love this game, the writing, the interesting mechanics and I especially love that the combat is turn-based, I typically don't play combat based games because playing with a touchpad makes them honestly kind of impossible, but turn-based combat takes what normally is a reaction/mechanical skill based thing and makes it more like a really cool game of chess, keeping track of all the pieces and their abilities and having time to think about each move ahead of time and plan out a strategy, it gives me the same satisfaction as solving an interesting puzzle , honestly a lot of my hours have just been going back and reloading combat encounters just to test out new ideas or mess around with builds! And after all those hours I’m still yet to actually finish any of my saves 😂😂
I love to hear that! Dnd never really appealed to me either as a genre gut BG3 is just so deep and interesting. I'm in awe at the complexity of the depth of it when I'm playing.
What specs does your laptop have?
@@abdullahmir2899 you’re asking someone with very little clue but I looked it up on it’s little specs page and it’s got a Ryzen 7 5700U with Radeon graphics 1.80Hz (?) whatever that means and it’s got 8GB RAM, so it’s certainly not a gaming laptop by any means. It can sometimes struggle a bit in act 3 but for the most part once I messed around with graphics settings a little it all runs pretty smoothly
@@elliemj21 fortunately because it's point and click it is not too bad to play even at really low frame rates
@@elliemj21 That's honestly not bad at all! As long as it's running smoothly and you're enjoying the game, that's all that matters
“I believe there are some Absolutes we can take away from Baldur’s Gate 3”
I see what you did there sir
Watching the CRPG genre get this much attention almost bring a tear to my eye
Which is ironic for FF16 to try to impress by letting down its core genre. The true irony is that FF want to be westernized and now, BG3 (western at its very core) came right after it to prove that its a very bad idea to let down your own genre. A verry nice lesson
Did mine 😅
BG3 brings so many new players to the genre.
I never understood why people would play this, especially the fantasy genre. It almost made me vomit when I thought about having to play this crap.
That was until I heard about BG3, how freakin' good it is and when I heard the AAA-devs from big studio's were comlaining about this being the new standard.
So I bought the game and gave it a go.
I am truly happy I did it. WHAT. A. GAME. !!! I can't stop playing.
I never saw the bear press preview thing until I was already playing it. BG3 came to my attention because a broad spectrum of non-influencer people I follow online were so emotionally wrapped up in it and expressed so much love for it that I simply had to go see for myself. Regular people who play CoD or Battlefield or the Tomb Raider reboot or whatever don't usually express so much excitement and tender love at their game. I never would have looked at BG3 if not for emotionally involved fans.
Same. I’ve never played DnD or heard of BG so I just heard how awesome it was and took a leap. I’m sure glad I did which lead to watching Vox Machina
I'm actually seeing a lot of people deciding to start playing D&D, or come back to D&D, after playing Baldur's Gate 3. And I'm seeing a lot of people who play D&D trying out BG3 because it's D&D. It's growing both audiences, pretty darn successfully.
i'll be honest I discovered Critical Role after I finished BG3 and wanted to find out more about D&D. Now I'm totally hooked. Currently watching their 2nd campaign.
@@BL00DYME55 It's crazy how much content they have. Ever watch The Legend of Vox Machina?
I don’t think it has anything to do with trying a new genre or type of game the fact that bg3 outshines every single rpg out there regardless the combat shows how much charm and care has been put into the game despite the unpopular gameplay style that it is, literally a masterpiece of a video game
im thankful for games like BG3 so I don't have to play D&D
its a pity WoTC shit the bed this year with the whole OGL scandal. i hope ppl find out about Pathfinder and then play Wrath of the Righteous (amazing game too in its own right)
The comment about Bioware really is spot on. I was always vaguely interested in D&D but never enough to actually play it, but I *love* Mass Effect and Dragon Age and have been closely following news about those games. But I think the current state of Bioware, with the insane levels of layoffs of some of the greatest people in the studio, along with so many more legendary people just flat out deciding to leave, *AND* all the news and leaks we've gotten about Dragon Age over the years, I've personally lost hope that DA4 will actually live up to the hype it once had. So when I saw BG3, I immediately jumped on it because it felt like a ray of light, and now I don't know how DA4 will ever even begin to compete
As a player of the original BG games (I'm that old yes), an avid rpg player through the years (neverwinter nights, kotor, morrowind, fallout , the witcher dragon age, oblivion, mass effect, pillars of eternity...), a DND player and a lifelong Larian fan (Divine Divinity, Beyond Divinity, Divinity Ego Draconis, DDOS, DDOS 2) this game is like a dream come true. It's like someone took my inner child to Santa's Workshop and stuffed it with candy until it is about ready to explode. And to see so many people discover DND, crpg's and Larian and see their joy and love for it just fills me with so much gratitude.
Bear must of done a number on you
I keep finding new content. I keep hearing new dialogue. I keep learning new mechanics. 300 hours or more, and it’s still happening. I haven’t even played all of the classes yet, or traveled with all of the companions. It’s incredible.
500+ hours and not tired of it one bit, there’s is so much replayable content it’s amazing
500!? Dear lord...ahem, Dear Absolute...
I want to experience all the different character romances, especially with some of the differences that can happen when playing a Dark Urge origin. I love getting to try different classes and seeing the custom dialogue and interactions for them. On top of the sheer fun and variety in each class. (471 hours here... 😶)
Im just over 300 now and its just incredible.
@@A16ZGAMESim up there around 600 but half of those were in early access. All I do is work and play BG3.
336 hours, 5 characters so far, and I still haven't made it past the stairs of Moonrise Tower.
I was one of the people who started playing BG3 on day 1 of early access. It was a long, agonizing wait and I would do it all over again. They truly took community feedback, and even improved the suggestions community had as features in the game. It's funny, it made me laugh, cry, agonize over decisions, it made me feel all emotions imaginable. It's been really great to see how the game developed along the time and I was really blown away by the popularity and the reception for the game. So I really hope a lot of game companies would look BG3 and understand better why it is so good, and not focus on things that helped it gain popularity. I only wish I could erase my memory of it so I could experience it again fresh.
Felt this...
I still remember how they were talking about the cut-scene presentation and talking protag - and how the opinion of the community resulted in the end decision.
I also played since the first day of EA but it's a bittersweet decision. I don't like some of the changes they made, especially to characters. If I never played before, I wouldn't know the alternative and got used to it. I remember how they changed Shadowhearts prickliness levels and they made all companions "more likeable". I miss the more distrustful and we are NOT friends here, we are allies for now vibes. Granted, a lot of them still are a bit prickly but not as much as in the beginning of EA.
Yup...Skyrim was the first time I was this pumped, and before that Fallout. I. Want. To. Play. Alone. To escape other people and their issues, and not have them reject me and my disabilities because I don't measure up for reasons I have no control over.
8:09 - cat's like "pls notice me"
The tremendous amount of effort that was put into areas of the game that maybe only 1 or 2 percent of players will ever see is what amazed me. They put the same amount of care into everything hoping that no matter the way you play the game you’ll have a positive experience.
I have absolutely been feeling that Bioware hole of depression. I am also an amateur dungeon master. This game is a double whammy for me.
The most important part of its success is, that its a labor of love. Thats what makes its impossible to replicate. Compare the Lord of the rings trilogy against the Hobbit movies. Thats the difference.
Well said.
I'd say that's why it seems like we got more games and better games in the past. A lot of games were made by small teams and were as you say a labor of love. Most of them grew into larger companies where it became more about profit than the product. At least that's my opinion and personal observations over the last 30 something years.
but hobbit was made so long after lotr ,i think it suffered from simply being modern, and most modern things are either lazy, made extremely cheap or made by people with not as much talent
@@votpavel that and it had a very troubled production, that it is watchable at all is largely thanks to peter jackson salvaging it within less than a year after things fell through. Was meant to be made by guillermo del toro and only two movies originally. The moneymen wouldn't let it be, so instead we have what we have.
Absolutely this. You can really tell when something is crafted with love,passion and care and when it is not. Larian Studios didn't have to put as much effort,time and care into making BG3 but they did. They listened closely to their community and adjusted their game accordingly, going for the most enjoyable and memorable experience they could. I think just the sheer depth of the game, all the options and my god the storytelling was really what hooked people in the most. I think it goes to show, make a good product and people will notice.
The personal story of Swen, the founder of Larian Studios, is just as compelling as the games they release.
The Man in the Armor
The Noclip audience is here to stay!! Awesome episode of what will be an incredible series. Thank you A16Z!!
And I hope this also brings more patrons to Noclip as well. Such an incredibly valuable channel and team. Main reason I’m still using UA-cam!
I knew I recognized his voice! Did these guys rebrand or is No Clip still around?
@@snarp408 oh they’re alive and well! Looks like they are just collaborating
i'm 125 hours in on my first playthrough, not even finished yet. it is absolutely insane how well done this game is, and it has truly achieved the butterfly effect feel on top of the beautiful storytelling. i can't get enough of it!
I feel like I'm adjacent to this game's core audience, but to Cohh's point: the bear sex scene media blitz was a HUGE turning point in public awareness. Seeing that media blitz turned me into a day 1 player. It might've slipped past my radar at first if not for that period of media attention.
This for me, too. I probably would not have checked it out had not everyone been making bear-fuckin' jokes all over the internet. Once the joke brought up the topic of BG3 in a given instance, other people would inevitably talk about how good it was, and a combination of wanting to see how good it could possibly be, to get so many people all raving about it, plus the promised fun implied by the sheer fact that bear fucking was in the game, plus a small degree of memey whimsy, made me curious enough to get it. And indeed I loved it.
Larian deserves all the praise they are getting and then some. Nice to see some businesses care about the customer and employee, not just money.
I think the “bioware shaped hole” driving people into games they wouldn’t normally play is absolutely true. Honestly that kind of thought process is what has gotten me into a lot of genres I didn’t previously enjoy. Just a feeling of “Man I really like this kind of thing in games but I’m not finding it lately, but here is this other game which isn’t really my thing but mixed in they have what I am craving.” Through that kind of thought process I’ve would up discovering series like Dragon Quest, Yakuza, Hades, even Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2 all because I was hungry for something they had even if the games were out of my wheelhouse.
As a BG3 addict this video was 🤯
Yes on the Bioware front.
I also think something else happened as there was a lot of people talking about BG3 as if Bioware had never existed.
So I think enough time had passed that a post Bioware generation got onboard with BG3.
Hiring Danny O’Dwyer is an absolutely genius move for A16z if they’re trying to create goodwill amongst a core gaming audience and make this UA-cam channel’s view count explode. This video already looks like it’s got more views than every other video on the channel combined!
I've spent 200 hours on this game so far and I haven't finished it and I have a lot of context ahead of me. BG3 is simply the best game in the world and no one has ever made anything close to it
LOL! It's even not GOTY, Hogwarts Legacy is a better game, and Quake, Deus Ex were better games. Fall Out is a way better CRPG than BG3 by a couple of parsec. It has good graphic and decent voice acting. But the story is really derivative, the writing is immature at best, characters are superficial. LOL! no one has ever made anything close to it, that's really BS.
Have you ever played The Witcher 3?
@@olafsigursonsNo buddy, Hogwarts legacy is freaking boring, it is just like ubisoft games with empty world, same bosses in the whole game.
They translated DnD to video games faithfully, an impossible task. It’s the story though. The fact they actually feel relief at seeing NPC’s alive in act 3 means they matter to me.
Who you choose to be matters so much.
funny how people make these statements just because it's their genere...
I think the main criteria that differentiates Larian from other large video game companies is the absence of pressure for yearly dividends (and buybacks). When the main shareholder is also a CEO who doesn't require a regular lion's share of the profits, that money can effectively be invested in improving the product or growing the company. The rise of dividends and share buyback in recent years amounts to a new tax, which sometimes prevents companies from investing in themselves. Larian seems to have escaped this trend, which allowed them to invest more time and resources into BG3 (and the fact that the CEO isn't a greedy person and has a passion for the game helps immensely). There's a video of Katie Porter grilling a Big Pharma CEO about the ratio of dividends and buybacks vs/ R&D, which illustrates the issue perfectly : increasing greed at the top prevents companies from investing to create better products, even if it sometimes kills them in the long run. Katie Porter's video : ua-cam.com/video/hRWEteXYD_Y/v-deo.html
Katie Porter is such a gem... if only we had more congresspeople and regulators like her. Hopefully she'll win Feinstein's former senate seat.
The production value and research done in this video punch leagues above its subscriber count! It's criminal this isn't a million subscriber channel, Well done!
I agree, I was glued from the start
You should check out NoClip, Danny's main channel. He does in-depth documentaries on popular or notable games. This video here is a collab between Danny and a16z to my understanding.
Thanks!@@phero2
It's funded by an enormous private equity fund.
I had no idea Kevin VanOrd had ended up at Larian working on DOS2 and then BG3. Between him and Greg Kasavin over at Supergiant, Gamespot seems to have given us some pretty incredible game writers over the years.
Best game of the last ten years. Played it 3 full times and cannot wait to play again.
in the rpg genre....nah there are far more titles that compete with it. pathfinder kingmaker+ sequal with the pathfinder system, solasta ( also 5th edition d&d ) pillars 1-2 with their whole unique system of deflection ( parry lowers chances to get hit ) vs dr ( damage reduction in armours ) or tyranny from the same studi that don't use classes at all but twists the story view to you are a follower of the big bad.
planescape torment/planescape tides of numenera which is alot deeper talkingwice but you are going to read a full book, wasteland series which is rpg with guns ala fallout basicly. Should also mention shadowrun series which is a tech world mutated by magic where parts of humanity warped into elves, orcs, dwarfs etc and high tech lives side by side with magic.
Smaller toned down ones that should be mentioned include tower of time that is more tactical combat heavy and the entirely unique setting in age of decadence which is more of a what if the world went to hell during the roman times fallout style and magic exists as some means.
Any Bioware fans in the comments who played BG3 even though they'd not played a deep RPG like it before? I'm genuinely curious. I'd probably put myself in that bracket.
Absolutely in that bracket. Like you said, big into WoW, Elder Scrolls and Mass Effect 1+2/Dragon Age Origins, the "modernized RPGs" for lack of a better term. Never really touched the classic CRPGs on account of never having a gaming PC back in that day. Picked up BG3 as the hype leading up to release reached critical mass, put hundreds of hours into it and it's easily my GOTY.
Huge ME/KOTOR fan. The only real deep "crpg" I'd played before this was the Shadowrun trilogy. Now I can't wait to dive into the classics
im glad ive played Dragon age: origins, Mass Effect, FONV, overwhelmed by DOS2, then to be overwhelmed again by BG3
@@FairOnFire bit of a list of games in the rpg genre if you are interested;
pathfinder kingmaker+ sequal with the pathfinder system, solasta ( also 5th edition d&d ) pillars of eternity series 1-2 with their whole unique system of deflection ( parry lowers chances to get hit ) vs dr ( damage reduction in armours ). Tyranny from the same studio that don't use classes at all but twists the story view to you are a follower of the big bad.
planescape torment/planescape tides of numenera which is alot deeper talkingwice but you are going to read a full book. Wasteland series which is rpg with guns ala fallout basicly. Should also mention shadowrun series which is a tech world mutated by magic where parts of humanity warped into elves, orcs, dwarfs etc and high tech lives side by side with magic.
There are also outliers and smaller ones like tower of time that is more tactical combat heavy and indie studio work like Masquerada; songs and shadows/age of decadence allthough neither I or any of my friends have played those. You can also find enhanced edition of baldursgate 1-2, icewind dale etc on stores like steam and GoG
I'd say you can't really be a BioWare fan without having played a deep RPG - it's what they do, or rather, it's what they did and was known for. =P
I'd say it's not just bioware.. Bethesda have completely dropped the ball.
True! if you analyze Starfield in an honest way the final conclusion is that the game is a complete disaster esp in 2023 gaming standards.
a lot of old studios (that survived to this day) are just names - no talents left, no decent replacements...
@@wardvandecotte9253I don't know, I think calling it a "disaster" is a very dishonest take.
I think that the biggest issue surrounding Starfield is the genre. There's a reason why No Man's Sky is the only sandboxy space-based RPG out there. It's a difficult genre to fit RPG into, given the scale you need to properly represent space with.
And it's frustrating, because all I hear is that "Bethesda is lazy and refusing to innovate", when their innovation in bringing Space RPG back to life, is the entire reason why the game doesn't feel as fleshed out as BG3.
@@TheTimtam112 This is part of the problem. If we continue to defend companies who deliver unfinished and broken products on launch and rely on the modding community to fix their shit than nothing will change.
Starfield is the perfect example of what's going wrong in modern AAA gaming industry.
I would argue that space was a huge mistake because it distroyed the exploration and environmental storytelling of previous Bethesda games. That was their strength and it's gone, replaced with proc gen boredom. Everything is disjointed in this game. Nothing flows. Just loading screen after loading screen.
Starfield is the disappointment of the decade for me. I was SO hyped. The most hyped since Mass Effect 3. Been a long time since I was last this excited for a game. Yes, more excited than for BG3 even though DOS2 was already one of the bets TPGs ever made. Coming off BG3 the narrative and character design of Starfield was a shocking drop in quality. Just painful to get into. I was a big Bethesda fan but Starfield is boring AF, the world is not interesting. The characters are milk toast. I had tons more fun with FO76 last year.
Everything is so mediocre and bland. Starfield is Bethesda's Andromeda to me. Not awful but just so forgettable.
And now I wonder if Bethesda is as creatively dead as BioWare. Making space so boring is quite an achievement. They did nothing interesting with the setting, with the endless possibilities of scifi. They created the most boring "realistic" future of humanity. Congratulations. And I'm not even getting into all the godawful game design choices on a mechanical level.
Bethesda dropped the ball hard for me and this might be the last Bethesda I bought. I don't think the modding community can fix this game. You cannot fix a boring sterile world. The game has no charm. I'm still not over my disappointment.
Larian is where it's at now for me.
I think BG3 sits at the nexus of several growing trends which has contributed to its success. In the gaming space you have a huge appetite for expansive new worlds right now as evidenced by Starfield and Elden Ring, and you also have significant demand for single player AAA games that don't push microtransactions. Within the RPG genre itself, CRPGs are having a bit of a silver age, with games like Owlcat's Pathfinder series showing that these complicated games can find a strong audience. Finally you have the insane explosion in popularity of Dungeons and Dragons in recent years, really started by Critical Roll.
When you consider how BG3 was released at just the right time to benefit from all of these trends, in combination with the fact it is just a very good game, it becomes a lot less surprising that it was such a hit.
As someone who bought BG3 day 1 on early access and submitted feedback to devs on occasion. I knew this game would blow it. I didn't know much of anything about D&D but I knew that Larian was doing something no other game dev has ever done before.
Y'all way under sold The fact that you found out their own 30% by tencent. That's huge, when you prove Jason schrier wrong that's nothing to scoff at. I sincerely appreciate the investigative journalism that you always do Danny.
Also I don't necessarily think that's a negative at all like he said sometimes you just need capital.
The game is masterpiece!
Story, characters, writing, acting, gameplay, hours of play, replayability, attention to details, interesting and deep story also in “good” and “evil” routes.
I’m convinced that most who say they don’t like crpgs have never even tried one.
This video was super well put together and extremely informative. I usually never comment on UA-cam but you sir deserve some praise for your work!
I cannot say how much a company being privately owned is important in modern day media. If its not privately owned, then half the time the overall project gets corrupted in some way. Either by finances being taken from it and forcing bits to be rushed, or by certain messages being forced in when theyre unneeded, or with under-whelming writing as the plot gets dumbed down during the development process.
Tencent owns 30% of larian studio.
@@user-hq6kn5vp2q tencent has been known to just provide money and have no input in their investments. Unlike other companies where they will take over and demand certain aspects changed or added for microtransaction. Most of what we hear about Tencent is that they invested in the games, or how much they own, but never what they demand
@@user-hq6kn5vp2q The main shareholder is their CEO though. Usually if someone owns 30% of the shares over some company that is a huge amount but in this case Tencent is, to my knowledge, a minority share holder, they hold little power over Larian beyond collecting little dividends, if Larian is even paying dividends and not investing into growing the company.
@@user-hq6kn5vp2q And? It doesn't change the fact that being privately owned is a business term. It means stakeholders are breathing down their neck so their stocks are worth more.
Finally, the UA-cam algorhythm suggested a video I wanted to see with more Danny o'Dwyer. I did not know this content existed. Yes, more please (and more Shift F1!).
What is especially nice is that the video really summarizes well the actual drivers of why BG3 blew up the way it did. With the end of the year coming up, BG3 is a key player for various Game of the Year discussions, and with that comes a lot of comparisons to other amazing games released this year. The thing that comes up there, is what BG3 actually does different to its CRPG peers or even the wider market in terms of mechanics or design. Frankly, it is not innovative "new" game mechanics that drives the excellent reception, but rather the repackaging and full implementation of really core aspects that make up a traditional crpg in an AAA environment.
Arguably the closest possible comparison we have of an AAA CRPG, is the mixture of CRPG with ARPG game: Dragon Age: Origins around 15 years ago (!). Unfortunately, the Dragon Age series tends to minimize the depth in CRPG heritage it has, and instead lean more heavily on the narrative, visual presentation and depth of story choice. As such, the sales of a franchise like Dragon Age are not a great indicator for a game like BG3 and what it can achieve. Furthermore, the core fanbase of CRPGs tend to be very loyal to the few developers it has, and they tend to signal boost the quality of any CRPG that releases. Owlcat games gets a lot of positive word of mouth in every discussion surrounding expansive, quality CRPGs, as WotR is an excellent game. As such, when a CRPG game does manage to attract the eye of the wider public, the fanbase will instantly support (and market) the game to the wider public. Games that water themselves down a bit to appeal to the more mainstream audience tend to alienate this part of the fanbase, resulting in more mixed discussions.
To me, ultimately, the most impressive thing about BG3 is just how well it was made and put together as a final product. I did not expect it at all, and frankly, around the time of release I figured I'd pick it up as a lapsed CRPG fan when I'd have some free time and no games on my to-finish list. It was the frenzy and positive word of mouth that led me to purchase and play it. In fact, the reception of the game was so good that my retired, 65+ father called me out of the blue to ask if I could buy BG3 for him. The man hadn't played a different game than WoW for years, except maybe D:OS 2 five years ago. If the marketing reach went *that* far, now that's impressive. And even though the easiest difficulty the game is actually slightly too hard for him, he has an absurd amount of hours into the game, with multiple save files. It is a remarkable achievement in patience from Larian until it was fit for launch, but I have no doubt their torrid history with publishers forcing their old RPGs out the door before they were ready is what made them focus so heavily on taking their time properly. Well done.
As an RPG fan in general, I'm not that big into BG3, however, there is one area that I really like: It feels good to play.
What I mean by that is lately I've gotten used to things like daily quests, battle pass progression, etc. and all the other FOMO things games these days use to keep us "engaged." I can sit down on a Saturday and play 15 hours of BG3 straight, then not play it at all for 4-5 days and hop right back in and play several more hours in a row because I want to be playing, not because I feel compelled, or like I might miss out on something. It's gaming like when I was a kid in the 80s/90s. Play because it is fun and you want to play, not because you feel compelled to engage.
BioWare changing the type of games they make is probably part of the reason there was a big gap in the market for BG3 to find, but I don't think they're the only ones. Bigger publishers are so afraid to make a "niche" game but they don't even know what is niche and what is not. Like Elden Ring was supposed to be another "niche" game last year and it ended up being a blockbuster. It turns out lots of people play games that don't resemble Call of Duty, Fortnight or Diablo.
I've never heard of this UA-cam channel before, but I saw Danny on the thumbnail and was intrigued.
Hi,
Thank you, thank you, thank you... I'm just a scrubby indie dev. So, while I understood how BG3 became what it is. Ain't nobody listening to me. But we can't keep brushing off the technicalities and limitations of game development. In order to improve gaming commentary, we need informed content like this. So truly, thanks again.
Take care and have a good one
What a great video! Excellent job on the research and editing.
What a great format, you will get tons of subscribers in no time if you keep up this level of quality, imo.
i don't think it was mentioned but switching from real-time with pause to turn based combat is absolutely one of the biggest factors in the games success. If it had been real-time with pause I guarantee you it would not have appealed to as wide of an audience as it did. The skill set to handle that type of game is more rare, and the type of people who are into deep rpgs are going to be less compatible with the intense strategy and stress that comes with a real time system.
And yet it's borderline crazy to think that publishers had considered turn-based to be the equivalent of bundling your game with a piece of stinking goblin poo upon shipping it -- "turn based doesn't sell!" There's still a hugely fascinating in-depth interview up on Matt Chat (UA-cam channel) with Larian's CEO Swen Vincke, back from when they were still in the making of Original Sin 1.
Pretty early on Vincke recounts on that they had to do Diablo-like combat for their very first Dinity game, as else they didn't find investors. As soon as they changed that, the offers came in. And for Divinity II, they didn't even consider going turn-based for the very same reasons.
The big JRPG series such as Final Fantasy have also abandoned TB, gradually. The thing is, have there actually been that many major TB RPGs in like the last 15, 20 years? The last major D&D one was Temple Of Elemental Evil from 2003ish.. wich was always but a smaller scale project to begin with.
As Larian's marketing argue in the video: There's just not much data. If you blindly follow that data, you aren't setting trends, but follow them. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy
@snakeplissken111 single player action combat is a completely different beast than party based action combat. And Persona would be an example of a successful turn based game in the last 5 years
@@snakeplissken111 Hmmm. True, but at the end of the day BG3 was in Early Access (basically an easier form of Crowdfunding) for a long time.
The main sell of this game is the range of emotions in character growth and story telling. The music score. The freedom of choice in a narrative sandbox. Thats not unique to Larian and their years of hard work. The mechanics werent necessarily everyone's favorite but the possibilities in the mechanics i think were a delightful surprise.
This is something other game studios have done in the past. These are things the companies that made those moved away from. This is a lesson that the people lending money to these studios need to hear. Why did the original contributors to these types of games leave those companies? Thats what i want to know.
That Tiefling with the two squirrels made me cry in joy.
🥲💕
I wish Arkane is still like Larian studios and FromSoft, even if Arkane made Prey not many people appreciated it.
Congrats on the new series. Great start.
Some of the most quality video game journalism I’ve seen on UA-cam. Very refreshing!
I gotta say, this is an excellent video that encapsulates quite a bit of what a lot of us are thinking and experiencing. Props to everyone involved for the making of this video.
CRPG is a term that tabletop RPG/board game audiences used to use back in the 80s/90s to refer to video game RPGs, RPVGs (role-playing video games) being another old term. Technically, all video game RPGs are CRPGs, it's not a genre but a means of distinguishing physical RPGs from their digital equivalents. Most of the people playing the IE games (Baldur's Gate, Torment and so on) were tabletop RPG players first and foremost, and since they were using the term to describe these games, onlookers that lacked context ended up associating these games with the term and ultimately misinterpreting it for a sub-genre. Things getting heated in the late 90s between fans of japanese RPGs, Diablo (ARPG) and these games further cemented CRPG as a means of distinction, and now we're stuck with it.
I know that fighting against the semantic treadmill is kind of pointless, but boy do I wince every time some game-journo trying to fit in is describing CRPGs as a genre.
Came to the comments hoping for this explanation, thank you! 😄
Some names really don't make sense. New Metal (or Nü Metal🤮) is now classic metal, and in fact making a comeback as a genre.
RPG is so broad now that the original has to be defined as Table Top, even though it can often be played via video chat with virtual dice rolls. Names change but it's always good to remember where they came from.
I have embraced the cRPG for what is used in my circle: a classic RPG, much in the way of BGs or torment or Dragon Age origins. That you roleplay a character, has deep narrative and your choices matter.
You might as well lament that the word gay means something else than it did years ago and you want to use the word how it was used before.
Starved BioWare fan here. They got me IN to CRPGs with Neverwinter Nights back in the day. They fell out with me after DA:I. I see BG3 as an absolute spiritual successor to everything I loved about NWN and NWN2.
go play bg2
true; the most astonishing part was, I'm seeing how Studios are afraid of writing dynamic narrative, seeing how overwhelming It'll be and only for those inspired and imaginative. its the best thing a game can offer for replayability and variety, even AC6 and ER has for a gameplay oriented game delivering players freedom.
Well done A16Z, Danny is a gem and anything he produces is an instant watch for me.
The Bioware-shaped hole in the market (and my heart! Lol) really resonates. I've been playing RPGs of many stripes since VGA roamed the earth, and the story was always the thing. I got into DOS and DOS2 because though like a clown, I'll still buy anything with Mass Effect or Dragon Age on it, Larian had delivered the goods on well-developed narratives rooted in an ensemble of dynamic, interesting characters - and I had been missing that. When I saw Larian was doing BG3 I was up in that Early Access like white on rice lol.
I never had played a turn based crpg until bg3. I’m now 130+ hours in and loving it. The characters are all well developed and I’m genuinely intrigued with all my interactions with them. I’ve never played anything quite like it.
One of the things I think can't be understated is just how passionate everybody involved with this project was and the level of cooperation they had. Every interview I've watched, ESPECIALLY from the voice actors, is full of gratitude and love not just for the game and the audience but for all of the people they worked with. I saw an interview with Neil Newbon where he actually started crying when expressing his thanks for his coworkers and directors and for the game's writers.
To me, that's a huge part of what makes all of this come together
You could tell a similar story about Elden Ring. A lot of non-Souls fans gravitated to that game. It's overall polish was well below the standard of BG3 but it was greater than the sum of its parts.
I played the hell out of Baldur's Gate 1 over the years... I think I got it first in 1999? Had a lot of fun with Planescape Torment too. Glad that the series and genre has got so much attention. Appreciate Bioware for the Mass Effect trilogy as well. And Knights of the Old Republic! What an eye-opener that one was back in the day!
I picked this game up on Friday and I’m pretty amazed, lovin every minute.
I definitely feel like there's some truth to the Bioware question. Not so much that we all miss old Bioware per se, but more that we miss story telling of deep and layered characters that we actually care about. It used to be that narrative heavy games were "niche" in the public eye, even though I never thought so. But in recent years with AAA games focusing more on player retention rather than an actual good game, I think there's been fatigue and a growing desire not only for something different, but for a game we actually care about. BG3 was a game that fulfilled that desire, and in my opinion so did FFXVI, but that game is locked as a console exclusive. In my opinion, the protagonist Clive is one of the most compelling characters in a game that I haven't seen in years.
Huge Bioware fan here. I jumped at the chance to play BG3 not only because the first 2 games were Bioware but because I am STARVED for good RPG’s. You hit the nail on the head with the correlation.
Glad to see it won Game of the Year tonight. I’ve had it all of a week and I’m at 55hrs. It’s a wonderful combo of everything I love from magic to strategy, romance to picking up every little item in existence, it’s got everything I love neatly presented. Only thing to make it perfect was if I could set up my own little tent with decor then I’d say it was perfect. I’ve played wizard101 for years, Zelda, fall out, Birishauna, the most unrelated games and this one had everything I love from all of those. Beautiful masterpiece
grew up with BioWare ingrained into my childhood. From watching my Dad play BG1-2, Icewind Dale (not BioWare, but close enough), and getting to play Neverwinter Nights for the first time, all the way to obsessing over Mass Effect in high school. Definitely a LARGE chasm in the industry.
There's a giant Black Isle/Bioware hole in my gaming world and this is along with several smaller crpgs finally filling it again after many years of being without. Kudos to Danny for a great doc and Larian for pulling off a daunting but incredible feat in the RPG genre
Yep, this exactly. I had my hopes for a game that has depth like the original Fallout Games and BG3 really meets/exceeds that need.
I found myself reminiscing about Dragon Age and Mass Effect during my playthrough so yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head about the BioWare hole.
Very few games have blown me away like this, so much ive now bought it three times lol
Three times!?
@@A16ZGAMES bought in early access ages ago for an old computer, bought for my ps5 when it finally released, and one for a broke friend lol
Spot on with the BioWare takes. That said, I think when developers bring something strong to early access they can pretty much walk away with a blank check.
I recently watched a video where a developer complained about BG3 being reviewed 3 times while in EA, but his game who is still in EA has only been reviewed once and given a middling score. As you listen to the guy, he explains that their focus for the game very quickly shifted to follow the meta for fps games and all I could think to myself was, "And that's why no one is going back and reviewing your game again. You showed that you have absolutely no ideas which are unique or innovative and are just chasing trends. Now they can't even be sure you'll ever actually release that game you initially brought to EA." BG3 changed a lot from start to end of EA and fans deeply impacted the game, but the core vision never actually changed. At least not from what they initially announced before they went into EA.
You want to sell me on the potential of your game? Show me that you actually believe in your own pitch. I lost all faith in Pantheon after Brad died and suddenly the team started the shift from recreating EQ for the modern world to recreating WoW. It was then no surprise when they shift to now recreating WoW in Fortnite.
BG3 changed a lot from the original two games. Had it come out more akin to DOS2 it would have been more in their wheelhouse and remained closer to the original games in every way. All rpg's function in the same way in theory and all those rolls are just done in the background. The confidence to so firmly tie your AAA quality video game to a table top game, even if that's its origin, was brilliant. There is something enthralling about the whole experience of rolling the die in BG3. Then there's the fact you have a voiced protagonist, that you "say" what is written for dialogue options and npc's actually respond to what you say - except for Gale. No, Gale, I haven't talked to Raphael since act 1, let alone accepted a deal with him and in more than 10 PT's I have never followed through with accepting the deal.
The biggest thing though is that if this were an actual AAA developer, BG3 would have been made into a trilogy instead of released as one single game akin to FF7. There is certainly enough content there for 3 games roughly 20-25hrs long and each act has its own 3 act story.
I think it would be very hard for many developers to do early access the way that larian did. It required a level of trust that the company would listen to the feedback that I don't think many other companies have, especially since those of us who did early access paid basically full price for the game in its beta state.
It's really not that hard; it's the difference between a company wanting a fan-loved IP, or a baseline profit maker. That difference simply translates to 'how much investment are we willing to put into an extended early access periods to get it right, and eventually have sucess of a fan-loved IP?'
This is the core issue with publicly owned companies; these ventures are discussed, expected and treated as 'expected profit makers' within a fixed (and reletively pushed) timeframe, and are not geared as a long term investment opportunities, with eventual return on capital/profit.
This is also why many CRPG's over the last decade have been crowd funded as well; the return on investment is way more flexible when your end customer is also your financer, you can easily set and pace the lead times, and there's no inherent obligation for ROI unlike a publicly owned company.
The bear sex, while being a meme, was probably the best marketing move in the entire early access
I fell in love with Larian's CRPGs after playing Divinity Original Sin. Their dedication to the players is absolutely unmatched and as a dev in the industry, I'm so inspired by that.
I'm beyond happy that their love and hard work has resulted in such success.
I’m absolutely one of those sad BioWare players who was been starving for a game like this. I’ve tried pillars of eternity and tyranny and just couldn’t get into them. BG3 with the VA, polish, etc just scratched that Dragon Age Origins so wonderfully. Really hoping we see more games like this in the future.
You really gotta try other CRPGs, Many of them are better than bg3 but just don’t have the same insane budget.
I don't usually like swords and spells but the combat in BG3 is amazing. I'd say it's more of a xcom vibe combat but a deeper.
Great stuff Danny! Thank you!
cheers danny, love your work and this is no exception. noclip is the shining light of video game documentaries
love behind the scenes docs about gamestudios, keep it coming :)
I started playing it again a couple nights ago, I’m almost 26hrs in and only just finished Act 1. There’s so much so do, explore and so many characters to interact with. What’s amazing is how you bump into the same characters later and they have call backs to decisions you made which have very real impacts on the story. It’s incredible. I haven’t loved an RPG like this since Dragon Age: Origins.
It feels like this was made about me! Huge bg3 fan, second CRPG with my first being dragon age origins, and I discovered cohh after looking into new crpgs to play
I'Ve never played Bioware but I'm a killer for a game with a good plot and well developed charaters. I saw multiple clips of of the storylines of Astarion and Karlach and I was invested. After playing for hours so much so that I have over 700+ hours racked up on the game I can truly say that BG3 is one of my move beloved games of this year. Its like the more you play the more you get lost in the game's content.
yeah, also another factor the video kinda forgot to mention is that lots of older J-RPG fans have been left in the dust for many years because big Japanese companies started to look for mass appeal through action-combat. Like, I love strategic turn-based battles found in the older Final Fantasy games, Suikoden, Vandal Hearts, the old Fire Emblems, etc. and when I watched the trailer for BG3 it instantly put the game on my radar. I was like "Finally, the kind of game I love!" and after playing through BG3 I instantly became a huge Larian fan and will be supporting them now. I tried many C-RPGs over the years but could never get into any of them before BG3. I also never played a TT-RPG.
This was incredibly well thought out and put together. Well done.
With everything Larian learned while doing BG3, I can only be even more excited about what they will do in the future. BG3 is the culmination of everything they have learned doing RPGs for the past 10+ years. They really specialized themselves to doing just that and it shows. They have a level of expertise that other studios will take a long time to catch up. And it seems their company culture is amazing and people love working there. Definitely the best RPG studio out there. Can't wait to see what they have in store for us in the future. I would love for them to do an Arcanum style RPG.
You’re onto something about orphaned BioWare fans. I’ve been looking for my next story driven fix for years.
Witcher and Cyberpunk scratched the itch a little but not enough. Baldur’s Gate has felt the closest to playing Dragon Age: Origins which is still my favourite RPG ever.
I never got to finish Div 2 (due to life circumstances) but always loved DnD
BG3 totally has that joy, chaos, and sense of adventure of DnD. My first playthrough really was special, even with all the bugs and issues. I just can’t wait for the definitive edition when the full vision of this game is realized
Oh damn, thought I recognized you. You had the best game reporter content for gamespot; instant subbed. Good to see youre doing well 👍
What a great video. It's always interesting to see insights about studios that are great at making games (not many of them left, sadly).
I have 30+ hours in the game and i still in act 1. I usually HATE turn based combat. But man... this game have a SOUL. The cast is like my bunch of (weird) friends and i keep thinking about the game as i work. I have played games since the old atari era. I can say that Larian nails it!
It has a soul indeed!
When I first played Divinity Original Sin 2 I was astonished such an accomplished game was unknown to me.
It had exactly what I felt many games lacked - a consistent game world that reacted to your actions logically. To me that's simply the holy grail of game design
This was pretty phenomenal, beyond excited to see more!
Great video! I can't wait to see more of this series.
Excellent video