The way I see it, Starfortress is not a homage toward B-17, but more like an insult. Some B-17 managed to return home with damages that would take any other planes down.
The Star Fortresses were SUCH a missed opportunity. If they'd wanted to invoke an image of B-17's, then sure - a bunch of them are going to get shot down. But those monsters could take a _beating,_ and we just don't see that with the SF-17's. To get the Flying Fortress vibe, have a couple TIEs zoom in and light them up. Explosions, bits of fuselage panels fly off, a couple engines get shredded - but then the smoke clears, and you see that that heavy bomber is still truckin'. Scarred and battered, a couple fires on the outer surface are blazing from atmosphere leaks, half the engines are dead and the other half are trailing smoke, but that beast is going to keep on coming, and it's going to fuck things up when it gets there. Alternately, if we'd had more than eight seconds of familiarity with the New Republic before it got vaporized on Hosnia, they could have portrayed the bombers as a jab at military contracting. In this scenario, the NR realizes they have actual taxpayers, and decide they want purpose-built heavy hitters for their military, instead of relying on the collection of museum pieces, cobbled-together snubfighters, and up-armored cruise ships they'd used during the Galactic Civil War. So, they put out a Request For Proposals and buy the SF-17, only to find out after sinking billions into them that they're basically just a flashy way for pilots to commit suicide. Later, when the Resistance starts asking for weapons, the NR is only too happy to get these deathtraps off of their flight lines and maintenance budgets, and palms them off on the Resistance. This could even have been worked in to TLJ as a plot point. I mean, Finn and Rose were already set up to secretly meet with a corrupt arms dealer who happily plays both sides. How about make it so that their arms-dealer contact made solid-gold-house levels of money by bribing the NR decision-makers to buy the flying death-boxes in the first place? Rose's sister was killed flying one of those suicide machines just a day or two before; that would at least have made for an interesting confrontation. But we didn't get any of that. Instead, we get the worst of both worlds: appallingly bad performance from the SF-17, and no springboard to make Rose interesting.
Damn, well thought out! Would have loved if that happened. The whole bribery aspect showing that the NR is just as bad as the "old republic was, and that the same probeblms that were always there, still exist.
@@JediSentinal right? It was such a brilliant idea that really could have shown how the new republic still has hold over traits from the empire and the republic
Generally the biggest issue with the ST is the lack of political elements present. We had a impression throughout the OT that the rebellion grew steadily between movies so even if it wasn't ever expressively mentioned, we knew that the rebel's had undergone changes and even had full blown senators in their ranks by the final movie. There was a really big feeling of momentium from all these side characters who barely even featured in those movies that made it feel much bigger then our perspective characters. Who was Wedge? Didn't matter, he's an every man pilot who is in a massive war with some nice elements of progression between the movies. The Last Jedi really had some interesting and fresh elements in it, but I ultimately feel it got hit by the "too many plotlines" flaw. A mutiny plotline, the Luke Skywalker, Kylo Ren and escape/arms plotline was clearly too much for it's middle portion, and because those plotlines had practically nothing to do with one another (with the exception of the Kylo/Luke plotlines which made it by far the most interesting portions of the movie) we didn't really ever get attached to any one situation. It would be kind of Like Briggs Darklighter also being a main character in a new Hope, it would ultimately just get really distracting. Like, if it focused on Finn/Rose trying to get support, Rey/Kylo, cut the mutiny arc entirely and used Kylo as he was? I think it would've been incredible. Then perhaps use that subarc of suppliers as a inroad's for the New Orders eventual defeat. less said about Rise of, the better. People came, somehow. XD
@@lordbiscuitthetossable5352 Well they all have thematic connections to each other (choosing a side, seeing the wider stakes of who's impacted by the war, learning from failure, problems of trust) but they do not always mesh very organically, at that.
The difference was the B-17s were actually effective and played a major role in winning WWII in Europe through strategic bombing, and while being a bomber crew was extremely dangerous, it was not a death sentence - there are stories of B-17s surviving with unfathomable levels of damage, and crews successfully bailing out of stricken aircraft.
The *Night Buzzard* that the Knights of Ren used in TROS. And then there's the galaxy fleet, otherwise known as the "if we've got the CGI file lying around, use it and copy/paste" fleet.
I would say Corellia is more like Detroit than New Jersey. Focus on industrialization and ship (car) construction companies, while having a pretty violent and marginalized side.
Kuat Drive Yards, Correlian Engineering Corporation, and Rendili StarDrive are essentially the GM, Ford, and Chrysler of the Star Wars galaxy. Three major shipbuilders with factories rather close to each other, who produce the majority of the galaxy's vehicles.
Evidence that "The Resistance" engaged in some questionable means of staying in power: The Star Fortress had no armor or shields and dropped thousands of unguided bombs straight down. A ship of this type would be practically useless except against a target that is unable to shoot back or flee -which any military target should be expected to be able to do. This means that the main mission of this ship would be to engage stationary non-military targets (the Resistance uses them once to go against a military target, and as such loses all of them, pretty much verifying this). ...that's right, The Resistance had a fleet of vehicles that worked best when used to drop masses of bombs on civilian populations.
Also.. Who came up with the idea of dropping bombs in zero g? They would all come out and just float along with the ship while slowly drifting away from it's ventral section.
@@mrspaceman2764this is why it was out of film explained that there are magnetic rails that push them out of the ship. After that there is no control over the bombs
Janky: adj; (jayne-key); Durable, well built, excells at designed goals, however, is unreliable, and mostly junk, salvaged and/or rebuilt parts, and appears unappealing, unstable, and unsafe. Said appearance may or may not reflect actual quality of "janky" object. Rarely used as a term of endearment (see: junk heap). Can apply to new-built items. "I am not riding in that janky piece of garbage. I'm getting tetanus just looking at it" "I know it's new and all, but the design is rather janky." "Let's find another way. That catwalk is looking kinda janky." "Yeah, it's janky, but it'll do the job better than most of the other equipment... If it don't stall out or kill you, that is."
Considering the Falcon’s hyperdrive failing was a running gag in Empire and the Star Fortress was everything a Star Wars bomber shouldn’t be, I think the term applies rather nicely. If we’re allowing fanon as well, I think the Nebulon-B is properly janky as well. Canonically it is a decommissioned Imperial design and Eckhart’s render of what a Nebulon-B straight out of Kuat Driveyards might have looked like would certainly place the rebel version as a stripped-down pile of spare parts, if mostly in the sense that if someone needed a part the Nebulon was first on the chopping block.
More, has some interesting off book features, been patched so much yet it works, no one is entirely sure how, especially the poor sap keeping it going, mostly with percussive maintenance and cusses.
Star Fortress is practically a "junk ship". All the other ships on this list are old and worn like the Millenium Falcon or the Razor Crest but they are useful, The Star Fortress doesn't resist a single shot without exploding and it's slow and unmanageable
I would dare to say that it's an abomination. They could go forward with the B-17 homage without making them so slow and they failed miserably to represent them in a Sci-Fi scene, since B-17s were very robust planes with dozens of turrets as protection (inspiring the name "Flying fortress") which made them pretty dangerous in flight formation since dozens of .50cal guns could point at you at any time and were more streamlined in design than other contemporaries of their time, with more than average speed, payload and freight capacity for it's aircraft class, 4 engines with automatic fire extinguishers + a visual targeting system with wind estimation and photographic camera for hit confirmation and image capturing of strategic positions discovered mid-flight. Instead, the Star Fortress is way slower, with poor defenses, huge and weak hull/fuselaje and - the scene that made 0 sense - it required a remote control to activate the bombs and release them instead of being released from a dedicated bomber position, from a panel installed in the bomb bay or by the pilot with an aiming system/targeting computer in his cockpit.
@@Insanerobert44 100% agree - if you're going to copy the Flying Fortress, make it look more like an LAATI Gunship with orbital laser cannons all over the place and have the floor open up to drop bombs, rather than a massive B-Wing with virtually no defense at all
Razor Crest... Am I the only one that thinks this thing is the Star Wars equivalent of a '73 Ford Econoline? This thing was probably someone's Uncle's old shaggin' wagon before Din Djarin got is as a hand-me-down... I bet it still had the quadrophonic 8-track player....
Thank you, that bugged the crap out of me. To be fair though, the MG42 DID make an appearance as a stormtrooper and death trooper blaster- I think it may have just been a fuckup by the editor.
Space travel and owning a starship in Star Wars is about a ubiquitous as owning a car in the real world, and is essentially regulated to the same degree.
@@jedisalamander2457 , Please don't be that honest, us fans wouldn't exist if our rosy glasses are removed. P.s. I agree... most ships and fighters don't make sense. :(
Han Solo wasn't the only one who did damage the Falcon. Lando tore off the main sensor dish during the attack on the Second Death Star and of course, there's all the damage done to it in the sequel trilogy. Seriously, with all the beatings done to it, I'm surprised that the Falcon hasn't fallen completely apart at this time.
The BTL-A4 Y-wing was similar to the BTL-B but it was different. Its orignal engine covers weren't as bulky as the BTL-B's and didn't connect the engines with the cockpit. The A4 with engine covers baiscally had the same form as without but looked a bit more aerodynamic and smooth.
@@JediSentinal they were a modified TIE Bomber with cutouts in their solar panels like the TIE Avenger, armament of concussion missiles, and deflector shield projectors.... If memory serves me right they were featured in _"The Bacta Wars"_ when Rogue Squadron went rogue and waged a private war against Ysanne Isard. This book is also where Tal'dira and his Twi'lek warriors joined the Rogues in the fight with their Chir'daki which were TIE Fighters with a gyroscopic frame with X-Wing s-foils... those had the speed and maneuverability of TIE Fighters with the shields, armament, and hyperdrive capabilities of X-Wings, but they were built to standardized specs unlike regular "uglies" and extremely effective in combat. The TIE Clutbe were featured in the Corran Horn book _"I Jedi"_ and were also built to standardized specs. They looked like mini TIE Phantoms with the TIE ball cockpit but had shields and also had an ion cannon in addition to the two regular TIE blaster cannons.
What ship was the one in Rogue One... It had folding wings that folded forward till they were completely folded under the cockpit.... Anyone, Please help me with this one....I LOVE the design of that ship....Its a little small to live on, But I cold make it work...Seeing as I live in a semi truck week after week...So, I can see myself in one of those ships....Smuggling weapons, Spice, Or working fora Hut syndicate, ect... I didn't say I was a good guy! Just said I love that type of ship!!!!
List checks out. I was expecting to see the Twilight on here and wasn't disappointed. Regarding the B-17: I used to be obsessed with ww2 aircraft as a kid. Over the past maybe 10+ years I've been on this one particular B-17 Flying Fortress called the Nine O Nine 3 times, as well as a B-24 Liberator & B-25 Mitchell and the most recent time had a new addition of a TBF-1 Avenger, . Never got a chance to really check out the 2 man training Spitfire though. They are part of this thing called the Wings of Freedom tour and they're usually in the northeast around this time of year, with a stop at a small local airport maybe half an hour away from me. They have stops all over the country. Unfortunately, that B-17 had a tragic accident in I think 2019. Crashed into Bradley Airport from some failure, I forget exactly what it was. Everyone aboard died, rest in peace. I remember the last time I went to that event, after I left it had just taken off and was basically right overhead of the road I was taking at low altitude so I was essentially following it on the drive home. Super rad.
There’s something inherently exciting about driving a shitbox much faster and taking corners much tighter than many wiser individuals would say it should. Especially when it’s shaking like the space shuttle Challenger
Surprised that the Ghost, Hera Syndulla's ship, wasn't mentioned, nor was Boba Fett's Firespray attack ship, Slave I. Both have been heavily modified over the years, the Slave I even more so after being wrecked so many times as Boba tried to follow in his dad's footsteps as a bounty hunter.
Yeah but fett atleast, it seemed like he had professional repairs and maintenance done on a regular basis. For hera it also seemed to be well maintained. I mean take 2 Chevy cavaliers, one is kept exposed with no garage, driven regularly but never cleaned and only got oil changes and tires for 15 years. The other was kept in a garage and despite accidents got regular care maintenance including interior detailing over those same years. One is definitely going to be jankier than the other. Hans ship was more a flying bachelor pad and he only took care of it when he needs to still have a flying bachelor pad.
@@eddapultstab2078 Interesting that you should mention the Chevy Cavalier. I think I saw one in the big resistance fleet at the end of Rise of Skywalker. ;)
hypothetically, if one were hollow out a meteor and attach propulsion system can that be registered as a ship? and if it were to collide with a planet at hypersonic speed, is that a kinetic bombardment or an accident?
With regard to the Y-wing: To be fair, the B-51 has served long enough to straddle the time between the assassination of Fran’s Ferdinand and the fall of Saigon.
I'm a janky ship expert, One of my ships in Elite Dangerous can destroy itself by firing its main weapons repeatedly. It reaches more than 500% of the safe heat level and simply explodes. 😁
The Rebel Alliance had plenty of people that could sit as a gunner in the Y wing. The end of Episode 4 when they are getting all their medals, their seems to be a lot of people in orange standing around.
That would be amazing!! Though it doesn’t need to be the whole ship just a thin layer surface. Or just hull plates over the most important parts of the ship
As with much of the Star Wars lore, the Y-wing was based on the heavy fighters of WW2, specifically the Messerschmitt Bf-110. Intended as a 'fighter-destroyer' it was well-armed and fast, but the rear-gunner was a waste of space and they lasted about as long as snow in summer when they encountered fighter opposition.
"Steve, who drives away from the gas station with the hose still attached to his gas tank, will be piloting a large spaceship." I see you're familiar with Elite dangerous
You realize the rules of war only apply when everyone agrees on such? With the former being the case, and being under the Republic which did not regulate Jedi, none of the Jedi could have broken a rule or law of war.
Uglies... man, my roleplay character from long ago will defend (and has defended just so) his Chir'daki Deathseed's honor to the death. That little beast got him across the galaxy multiple times while dodging and dishing out some punishment from just about anyone. More than 8 years after that character's demise I still miss his antics, and his tough, spunky little ball of space-death even more.
I enjoy that in many of the star wars books featuring Han Solo he's always complaining about some system or another malfunctioning on the Falcon. Basically any spare time he has is spent tweaking and fixing bits on the ship.
There's been a lot of criticism at the Star Fortress's bombing capabilities. The bombs could still rely on gravity, as the targets were between the bombers and the planet, and gravity still "works" at an impressive range. (Our moon is held in orbit by Earth's gravity.) Alternatively, they could be pushed out magnetically by polarizing the rails. Either explanation is viable. That said, the ship it's is jank AF.
I've gotta complain about your dismissal of the Razor Crest. If the Millennium Falcon had gone through what the Razor Crest went through it would have looked pretty janky as well. They're both amazingly sturdy and reliable ships. That was a sentient amphibian NOT a "sentient lizard"!! I figure if it flies you've got no business calling it janky. Make mine Corillian!
@@thesultanofswing8706 No more so then the dumpster fire that is the Falcon and Han Solo. Held together by so much bailing wire and duct tape that it should be wreckage floating around 5 star systems or sitting in a scrap yard and Han should be either lying dead with a blaster.hole in his head in some dirty back alley or rotting in some prison but yet here they are time after time barely escaping by the skin of their teeth because they are the Godfathers of plot armor.
The ski speeder was originally for racing in asteroid fields. They would skip from asteroid to asteroid using the ski to stay attached to the rock. This is detailed in the incredible cross-sections for The Last Jedi.
Honestly the Y-wing feels like the SBD-3 In WW2 The US Navy wanted to remove it from service and it ended up killing more ships than any other torpedoe bombers
The falcon wasn't a tug in some universe or cannon or some place I seen a picture of it with the cargo in front and the gap in front is where the cargo is attached and is pushed and that's also why the cockpit is on the side so you can see around the cargo.
My idea for an Ugly. Take an AT-AT head and make it space worthy and possibly add some engines on the back. Attach a B-Wing body to either side of the head. Basically a BB-Wing with an AT-AT head. And call it a BAT-Wing!
That scene in the expanse messed with my head a lot, I watched it once and every time since I had to fast forward through it because it just disturbed me. Such a sad and cruel way to die
The description he gives for the podracer (horses pulling a pod) made me think "two-horse chariot". So this is a space-chariot race at like 1000mph, basically lmao Ben Hur, eat your heart out!
I know X-wings are one of, if not the best starfighters, but I can’t help but feel Luke’s X-wing belongs in this list, specifically the one he flew in Episode 5. That Dagobah swamp couldn’t have done it any wonders yet it still got him to Bespin just fine. I’d also like to mention the Imperial shuttle the Bad Batch uses as another noteworthy starship that went through a lot and probably deserves to be on this list.
the millennium falcon is like your older brothers friends car that sounds like it's got marbles in the exhaust, scrapes on every rock and is always breaking down. But that's because it's a 700 Hp 1995 Honda civic RWD conversion, a 4-rotor swap with an 88mm Garrett turbo and all the goodies to make it work.
The thing about the star fortress's bombing, sure there is no gravity in space however the ship itself has gravity projectors which is why the remote falls towards space in the scene. That was Ryan Johnson explaining in that short scene why the bombs fall towards their target. Artificial gravity accelerates them and since there is no friction in space the bombs keep moving as if they were shot out of a cannon or launched like missiles.
I out of all of the star ships from the star wars movies, by far my absolute favorite is the Corellian Corvette and very close second is the Hammerhead Corvette from Rogue One
I feel like we'd chill in person forreal, talking star wars nerddom and hating on Triumph and talking firearms. Id be happy to have a beer with ya dude, great vid!
According to your analogy: Flying a Y-Wing against the New Order would be like going up against Mig-19s in a Sopwith Camel. It would be a miracle if you survived that.
The book Owners manual of YT-1500/Millennium Falcon. Says it was a YT-1500 FT (Freight Transport) now a YT-1500 FPT (Freight and Passenger Transport), It had more 5 different owners before Lando and as many as many 12 different names, Flicky Flyer &Wayward Brother to name a few. It's been upgraded abandoned, upgraded again, crashed into a luxury liner, rebuilt with most of the front half of a YT-1500 PT (Passenger Transport), modified by Han solo with the Class 10 backup removed to make room for the jerry-rigged .5 hyperdrive. But Falcon had trouble even before leaving the factory. It's engines ignited during its first liquid metal fueling and destroyed three ships ahead of it in the assembly line.
I think about making a rc racing pod for a long time already... But I'm still undecided about the details. But probably a hovercraft with the 2 pods in the front... Maybe EDF motors, I don't know. Well, we'll see, I guess.
The Lewis gun was used by the British in world war 1. The stormtroopers blaster is a sterling smg used by the British in WW2. Han’s blaster was a broom handle Mauser
9:50 Chariot racing, not a full cart. Pod racing is basically an homage to that plotline in Ben-Hur. Down to multiple people in the race crashing. Ep 1 is a darker version of Ben-Hur, now that I think about it…
Honestly I would buy a B/SF-17 to use as a mobile home, it's bomb bay can fit a few bunks, plus it's good potential for cargo pod and external fuel tank hardpoints.
Unpopular opinion: The Star Fortress wasn't bad, the resistance just used it wrong. It's very clearly not cut out for contested air-space (space-space?)
I actually agree with this they fought that battle wrong Poe and the other fighters should have flown ahead cleared the way with bombers standing by till the air space was safer. I doubt it would have been completely clear but they probably would have lost less.
@@andrewaftontheandroidhedge2780 I believe it is meant for strategic bombing, but they were trying to use it as a strike bomber much like the y wing. The Star fortresses isn’t built for this role. It’s built for formation bombing with ether air dominance already established or under heavy escort. They used the wrong craft for this op. Yes it had the pay load capacity to get the job done as quick as possible. But they played to all its weaknesses that it’s only plot armor bs that one managed to do its job.
Best way to sum up a y wing is boom and zoom. Similar tactict used in ww2 by American fighters and interceptors due to their high dive veclocity but less agile turning rates at those speeds. If you played war thunder think something like a p51 or p47.
The way I see it, Starfortress is not a homage toward B-17, but more like an insult. Some B-17 managed to return home with damages that would take any other planes down.
Absolutely legendary planes. One even landed itself once.
Heh, yep... The movie conflated homage and insult in nearly every scene.
also a solo b-17 was assaulted by 21 zeros and was able to shoot down about 5 and make it back
Yeeeaahhh NO. Starfortress (garbage) was homage to the Brit Lancaster (garbage) not the B17.
To be fair, the sequels were not an homage, but more like an insult, in general.
The fact the twilight could operate is a monument to anakin's skills
I'd say its a monument to the mechanics who fixed it after every crash🤣🤣
@@brockgundich Crash?...oh you mean exiting landings lol
@@celsetialarchives5909 exiting landing? You mean another happy landing
@@BabbaBubbaKing happy landing? I think you mean falling with style
@@kanekikingstorm2113 Falling in style? I think you mean a lot of general Skywalker’s plans.
The Star Fortresses were SUCH a missed opportunity.
If they'd wanted to invoke an image of B-17's, then sure - a bunch of them are going to get shot down. But those monsters could take a _beating,_ and we just don't see that with the SF-17's. To get the Flying Fortress vibe, have a couple TIEs zoom in and light them up. Explosions, bits of fuselage panels fly off, a couple engines get shredded - but then the smoke clears, and you see that that heavy bomber is still truckin'. Scarred and battered, a couple fires on the outer surface are blazing from atmosphere leaks, half the engines are dead and the other half are trailing smoke, but that beast is going to keep on coming, and it's going to fuck things up when it gets there.
Alternately, if we'd had more than eight seconds of familiarity with the New Republic before it got vaporized on Hosnia, they could have portrayed the bombers as a jab at military contracting. In this scenario, the NR realizes they have actual taxpayers, and decide they want purpose-built heavy hitters for their military, instead of relying on the collection of museum pieces, cobbled-together snubfighters, and up-armored cruise ships they'd used during the Galactic Civil War. So, they put out a Request For Proposals and buy the SF-17, only to find out after sinking billions into them that they're basically just a flashy way for pilots to commit suicide. Later, when the Resistance starts asking for weapons, the NR is only too happy to get these deathtraps off of their flight lines and maintenance budgets, and palms them off on the Resistance.
This could even have been worked in to TLJ as a plot point. I mean, Finn and Rose were already set up to secretly meet with a corrupt arms dealer who happily plays both sides. How about make it so that their arms-dealer contact made solid-gold-house levels of money by bribing the NR decision-makers to buy the flying death-boxes in the first place? Rose's sister was killed flying one of those suicide machines just a day or two before; that would at least have made for an interesting confrontation.
But we didn't get any of that. Instead, we get the worst of both worlds: appallingly bad performance from the SF-17, and no springboard to make Rose interesting.
Damn, well thought out! Would have loved if that happened. The whole bribery aspect showing that the NR is just as bad as the "old republic was, and that the same probeblms that were always there, still exist.
@@JediSentinal right? It was such a brilliant idea that really could have shown how the new republic still has hold over traits from the empire and the republic
I love both these scenarios and wish the sequels' writers had put this level of thought into what they were writing.
Generally the biggest issue with the ST is the lack of political elements present. We had a impression throughout the OT that the rebellion grew steadily between movies so even if it wasn't ever expressively mentioned, we knew that the rebel's had undergone changes and even had full blown senators in their ranks by the final movie. There was a really big feeling of momentium from all these side characters who barely even featured in those movies that made it feel much bigger then our perspective characters. Who was Wedge? Didn't matter, he's an every man pilot who is in a massive war with some nice elements of progression between the movies.
The Last Jedi really had some interesting and fresh elements in it, but I ultimately feel it got hit by the "too many plotlines" flaw. A mutiny plotline, the Luke Skywalker, Kylo Ren and escape/arms plotline was clearly too much for it's middle portion, and because those plotlines had practically nothing to do with one another (with the exception of the Kylo/Luke plotlines which made it by far the most interesting portions of the movie) we didn't really ever get attached to any one situation. It would be kind of Like Briggs Darklighter also being a main character in a new Hope, it would ultimately just get really distracting.
Like, if it focused on Finn/Rose trying to get support, Rey/Kylo, cut the mutiny arc entirely and used Kylo as he was? I think it would've been incredible. Then perhaps use that subarc of suppliers as a inroad's for the New Orders eventual defeat.
less said about Rise of, the better. People came, somehow. XD
@@lordbiscuitthetossable5352 Well they all have thematic connections to each other (choosing a side, seeing the wider stakes of who's impacted by the war, learning from failure, problems of trust) but they do not always mesh very organically, at that.
I'd rather go down in a blaze of glory in a B-17 than go out in a blaze of shame on a Starfortress.
And it can take far more beatings and still come home.
I'd rather be choked to death by Vader than dying on board a Starfortress
The difference was the B-17s were actually effective and played a major role in winning WWII in Europe through strategic bombing, and while being a bomber crew was extremely dangerous, it was not a death sentence - there are stories of B-17s surviving with unfathomable levels of damage, and crews successfully bailing out of stricken aircraft.
@@AlexSDU pppjpjppppjpp
@@AlexSDU B-17s "Memphis Belle" and "Old 666" agree with this statement.
I love that Anakins pod racer gets even more janky when Cobb Vanth harvests it for his speeder bike
The *Night Buzzard* that the Knights of Ren used in TROS.
And then there's the galaxy fleet, otherwise known as the "if we've got the CGI file lying around, use it and copy/paste" fleet.
BRUH the fleet literally was diverse enough with both new and old ships.
@Deadshot 500 it wasn't even that unique it was practically a copy of the Mass effect systems allaince fleet
I would say Corellia is more like Detroit than New Jersey. Focus on industrialization and ship (car) construction companies, while having a pretty violent and marginalized side.
Kuat Drive Yards, Correlian Engineering Corporation, and Rendili StarDrive are essentially the GM, Ford, and Chrysler of the Star Wars galaxy. Three major shipbuilders with factories rather close to each other, who produce the majority of the galaxy's vehicles.
@@InventorZahran exactly!
I was thinking the same thing. It's actually surprising that the planet Corellia is in such bad shape, considering it's one of the Core Worlds.
Only in New Canon. REAL Canon had Corellia as a more Cityscape with Countryside. The Corellian Shipyards were in Orbit.
@@justinlast2lastharder749 new cannon is better than legends
Evidence that "The Resistance" engaged in some questionable means of staying in power:
The Star Fortress had no armor or shields and dropped thousands of unguided bombs straight down. A ship of this type would be practically useless except against a target that is unable to shoot back or flee -which any military target should be expected to be able to do. This means that the main mission of this ship would be to engage stationary non-military targets (the Resistance uses them once to go against a military target, and as such loses all of them, pretty much verifying this).
...that's right, The Resistance had a fleet of vehicles that worked best when used to drop masses of bombs on civilian populations.
I thought exactly the same thing watching that scene,
More than likely this ship was kitbashed
Also.. Who came up with the idea of dropping bombs in zero g? They would all come out and just float along with the ship while slowly drifting away from it's ventral section.
@@mrspaceman2764this is why it was out of film explained that there are magnetic rails that push them out of the ship.
After that there is no control over the bombs
@@buffalowtmakes sense, my headcanon (and apparently also full canon) was always for some sort of railgun/electromagnetic launch system.
Janky: adj; (jayne-key);
Durable, well built, excells at designed goals, however, is unreliable, and mostly junk, salvaged and/or rebuilt parts, and appears unappealing, unstable, and unsafe. Said appearance may or may not reflect actual quality of "janky" object. Rarely used as a term of endearment (see: junk heap). Can apply to new-built items.
"I am not riding in that janky piece of garbage. I'm getting tetanus just looking at it"
"I know it's new and all, but the design is rather janky."
"Let's find another way. That catwalk is looking kinda janky."
"Yeah, it's janky, but it'll do the job better than most of the other equipment... If it don't stall out or kill you, that is."
Considering the Falcon’s hyperdrive failing was a running gag in Empire and the Star Fortress was everything a Star Wars bomber shouldn’t be, I think the term applies rather nicely. If we’re allowing fanon as well, I think the Nebulon-B is properly janky as well.
Canonically it is a decommissioned Imperial design and Eckhart’s render of what a Nebulon-B straight out of Kuat Driveyards might have looked like would certainly place the rebel version as a stripped-down pile of spare parts, if mostly in the sense that if someone needed a part the Nebulon was first on the chopping block.
More, has some interesting off book features, been patched so much yet it works, no one is entirely sure how, especially the poor sap keeping it going, mostly with percussive maintenance and cusses.
Star Fortress is practically a "junk ship". All the other ships on this list are old and worn like the Millenium Falcon or the Razor Crest but they are useful, The Star Fortress doesn't resist a single shot without exploding and it's slow and unmanageable
I would dare to say that it's an abomination. They could go forward with the B-17 homage without making them so slow and they failed miserably to represent them in a Sci-Fi scene, since B-17s were very robust planes with dozens of turrets as protection (inspiring the name "Flying fortress") which made them pretty dangerous in flight formation since dozens of .50cal guns could point at you at any time and were more streamlined in design than other contemporaries of their time, with more than average speed, payload and freight capacity for it's aircraft class, 4 engines with automatic fire extinguishers + a visual targeting system with wind estimation and photographic camera for hit confirmation and image capturing of strategic positions discovered mid-flight.
Instead, the Star Fortress is way slower, with poor defenses, huge and weak hull/fuselaje and - the scene that made 0 sense - it required a remote control to activate the bombs and release them instead of being released from a dedicated bomber position, from a panel installed in the bomb bay or by the pilot with an aiming system/targeting computer in his cockpit.
@@Insanerobert44 100% agree - if you're going to copy the Flying Fortress, make it look more like an LAATI Gunship with orbital laser cannons all over the place and have the floor open up to drop bombs, rather than a massive B-Wing with virtually no defense at all
@Falcon Hyperion Don't forget the inner bracing made of crapium and the exterior coating of failium.
I was struggling to remember where star fortress was from, then I remembered. Thelma and Louise in space.
Star Fortress is not a homage but more of an insult toward the mighty B-17.
Razor Crest... Am I the only one that thinks this thing is the Star Wars equivalent of a '73 Ford Econoline?
This thing was probably someone's Uncle's old shaggin' wagon before Din Djarin got is as a hand-me-down... I bet it still had the quadrophonic 8-track player....
@@williampotter3369 Gabriel Iglesias has entered the chat*
To me it's a space Winnebago
@@scottybbadd Just wait till it goes Plaid! May the Farce be with you.
The Lewis gun was a British machine gun. The gun you’re thinking of was the German MG42 😁
And was most popular in WW1, replaced by the Bren in WW2
Thank you, that bugged the crap out of me. To be fair though, the MG42 DID make an appearance as a stormtrooper and death trooper blaster- I think it may have just been a fuckup by the editor.
Not to forget the MG34
Lewis gun was an American gun made by the US and adopted by the British but not adopted by the US until they got involved in the war
marcomoon6 Nope. The gun was designed in the US but manufactured in the UK and used by them in WW1
Space travel and owning a starship in Star Wars is about a ubiquitous as owning a car in the real world, and is essentially regulated to the same degree.
It may seem so, but actually most people stay planetside or hire/book a ship if they travel
It may seem so, but actually most people stay planetside or hire/book a ship if they travel
It may seem so, but most people stay planetside or hire/book a ship if they travel
It may seem so, but actually most people stay planetside or hire/book a ship if they travel
More like owning an airplane. A few people might own their own plane to fly where they need to go but other people tend to fly commercial.
"Sure it looks cool on screen, but does it really make sense?"
The sequel trilogy in a nut shell
Most of star wars in a nutshell, if we're being honest
@@jedisalamander2457 ,
Please don't be that honest, us fans wouldn't exist if our rosy glasses are removed.
P.s. I agree... most ships and fighters don't make sense. :(
6:00 - the Lewis gun a british weapon. But I think he meant the MG in the previous scene but the timing was weird
yeah and the Lewis gun was also ww1 not ww2
If he think UK were right extreme, it's not us to judge.
Why do you call podracer a star ship? It's basically an engine thrusters propelled hovering vehicle. Same with ski speeders.
Han Solo wasn't the only one who did damage the Falcon. Lando tore off the main sensor dish during the attack on the Second Death Star and of course, there's all the damage done to it in the sequel trilogy. Seriously, with all the beatings done to it, I'm surprised that the Falcon hasn't fallen completely apart at this time.
If it weren't for that crafty wookie it probably would have by now.
The BTL-A4 Y-wing was similar to the BTL-B but it was different. Its orignal engine covers weren't as bulky as the BTL-B's and didn't connect the engines with the cockpit. The A4 with engine covers baiscally had the same form as without but looked a bit more aerodynamic and smooth.
Technically the Chir'daki, TIE Clutch, and Gand TIE Fighter were very high-performing and not janky at all.
Which one was the gand tie fighter again? Rereading the x wing series atm.
@@JediSentinal they were a modified TIE Bomber with cutouts in their solar panels like the TIE Avenger, armament of concussion missiles, and deflector shield projectors.... If memory serves me right they were featured in _"The Bacta Wars"_ when Rogue Squadron went rogue and waged a private war against Ysanne Isard.
This book is also where Tal'dira and his Twi'lek warriors joined the Rogues in the fight with their Chir'daki which were TIE Fighters with a gyroscopic frame with X-Wing s-foils... those had the speed and maneuverability of TIE Fighters with the shields, armament, and hyperdrive capabilities of X-Wings, but they were built to standardized specs unlike regular "uglies" and extremely effective in combat.
The TIE Clutbe were featured in the Corran Horn book _"I Jedi"_ and were also built to standardized specs. They looked like mini TIE Phantoms with the TIE ball cockpit but had shields and also had an ion cannon in addition to the two regular TIE blaster cannons.
What ship was the one in Rogue One... It had folding wings that folded forward till they were completely folded under the cockpit.... Anyone, Please help me with this one....I LOVE the design of that ship....Its a little small to live on, But I cold make it work...Seeing as I live in a semi truck week after week...So, I can see myself in one of those ships....Smuggling weapons, Spice, Or working fora Hut syndicate, ect... I didn't say I was a good guy! Just said I love that type of ship!!!!
@@mattsiede443 the U-Wing
@@doncalypso I loved the nickname of the chir'daki. The death seed!!👍👍
I had a Starwars D&D campaign. This channel is a amazing source of information!
Do you still need players?
@olav olav we had our own characters and it was in the Imperial era
@@olafgurke4699 this was about a year ago.
@@skylargalley6709 Damn. But regardless, it sounds like it was a great fun.
That reminds me of a campaign I once ran. It was a Knights of the Old Republic game, with a campaign arc that was inspired by "Lord of the Rings".
List checks out. I was expecting to see the Twilight on here and wasn't disappointed.
Regarding the B-17: I used to be obsessed with ww2 aircraft as a kid. Over the past maybe 10+ years I've been on this one particular B-17 Flying Fortress called the Nine O Nine 3 times, as well as a B-24 Liberator & B-25 Mitchell and the most recent time had a new addition of a TBF-1 Avenger, . Never got a chance to really check out the 2 man training Spitfire though. They are part of this thing called the Wings of Freedom tour and they're usually in the northeast around this time of year, with a stop at a small local airport maybe half an hour away from me. They have stops all over the country.
Unfortunately, that B-17 had a tragic accident in I think 2019. Crashed into Bradley Airport from some failure, I forget exactly what it was. Everyone aboard died, rest in peace. I remember the last time I went to that event, after I left it had just taken off and was basically right overhead of the road I was taking at low altitude so I was essentially following it on the drive home. Super rad.
You should check out Fi-Fi with the Commemorative Air Force.
@@davidtuttle7556 Care to elaborate?
Glad you included the millineum falcon. The original jank tank
I think the term your looking for is "proper shitbox"
There’s something inherently exciting about driving a shitbox much faster and taking corners much tighter than many wiser individuals would say it should. Especially when it’s shaking like the space shuttle Challenger
Yes. Take crap, make it cool, and drive it like you stole it.
Lmfao 😂
Didn’t Challenger explode?
Surprised that the Ghost, Hera Syndulla's ship, wasn't mentioned, nor was Boba Fett's Firespray attack ship, Slave I. Both have been heavily modified over the years, the Slave I even more so after being wrecked so many times as Boba tried to follow in his dad's footsteps as a bounty hunter.
The Slave 1 I feel wouldn't belong. Name one thing wrong with that ship that isn't made up for many times over.
I think Jaster's Legacy is far more applicable than either of those
Yeah but fett atleast, it seemed like he had professional repairs and maintenance done on a regular basis. For hera it also seemed to be well maintained.
I mean take 2 Chevy cavaliers, one is kept exposed with no garage, driven regularly but never cleaned and only got oil changes and tires for 15 years. The other was kept in a garage and despite accidents got regular care maintenance including interior detailing over those same years. One is definitely going to be jankier than the other.
Hans ship was more a flying bachelor pad and he only took care of it when he needs to still have a flying bachelor pad.
@@eddapultstab2078 Interesting that you should mention the Chevy Cavalier. I think I saw one in the big resistance fleet at the end of Rise of Skywalker. ;)
@@GrinderCB I'm sure it's rugged enough to make it there......
......heading back is a different story.
12:15 to be fair the deathraven was a really good ship packing insane firepower and engine power
Me seeing the thumbnail: How dare you call the razor janky!!!
Also me remembering Jawas had uninterrupted access to the ship: I see your point.
hypothetically, if one were hollow out a meteor and attach propulsion system can that be registered as a ship? and if it were to collide with a planet at hypersonic speed, is that a kinetic bombardment or an accident?
I assume you're asking for a friend?
Ask Da Orkz, they do that thing all the time.
@@pizzedahff3127 asking for a client
@Aung Un'Rama meteors tend to be no bigger than 100 meters, powerful enough to wipe out a city block or small city.
This is basically Gundam in a nutshell.
My favorite has to be the Death Raven and I was super thrilled you included it in the Ugly Classification.
Great vid GenTech! The Y-wing is easily my favorite ship on this list.
With regard to the Y-wing:
To be fair, the B-51 has served long enough to straddle the time between the assassination of Fran’s Ferdinand and the fall of Saigon.
I'm a janky ship expert, One of my ships in Elite Dangerous can destroy itself by firing its main weapons repeatedly. It reaches more than 500% of the safe heat level and simply explodes. 😁
The Rebel Alliance had plenty of people that could sit as a gunner in the Y wing. The end of Episode 4 when they are getting all their medals, their seems to be a lot of people in orange standing around.
Dear Generation Tech:
Can you please make a video about the Imperial Gun Boat and Missile boat? There are very few videos about them.
Ngl you’re easily one of the best SW UA-camrs, definitely the best out of those who make videos like your own style
That would be amazing!! Though it doesn’t need to be the whole ship just a thin layer surface. Or just hull plates over the most important parts of the ship
As with much of the Star Wars lore, the Y-wing was based on the heavy fighters of WW2, specifically the Messerschmitt Bf-110. Intended as a 'fighter-destroyer' it was well-armed and fast, but the rear-gunner was a waste of space and they lasted about as long as snow in summer when they encountered fighter opposition.
"Steve, who drives away from the gas station with the hose still attached to his gas tank, will be piloting a large spaceship."
I see you're familiar with Elite dangerous
I liked the Razor Crest. It had the cool Millennium Falcon jank to it. Kinda like dropping a Crate motor into a old solid 4*4 truck.
You realize the rules of war only apply when everyone agrees on such? With the former being the case, and being under the Republic which did not regulate Jedi, none of the Jedi could have broken a rule or law of war.
You realise it's a bit he's doing. Anti-Jedi, Pro-Human, Anti-Alien, etc. It's all a bit.
Uglies... man, my roleplay character from long ago will defend (and has defended just so) his Chir'daki Deathseed's honor to the death. That little beast got him across the galaxy multiple times while dodging and dishing out some punishment from just about anyone. More than 8 years after that character's demise I still miss his antics, and his tough, spunky little ball of space-death even more.
"not enough man power to put gunners on the Y-wings"
Snowspeeder Gunners: "Are we a joke to you?"
8 Jankiest Star Ships
Has Anakin's podracer and the Ski Speeder on the list...
Ski-der
Are those 2 even qualify as a star ship? I highly doubt it.
@@AlexSDU no they do not count as star ships.
@@AlexSDU that’s what I’m saying
6:00 gun and history nerds are going to go bananas with that
I enjoy that in many of the star wars books featuring Han Solo he's always complaining about some system or another malfunctioning on the Falcon. Basically any spare time he has is spent tweaking and fixing bits on the ship.
dope music and editing, you need to do an updated version win Din's Naboo N-1 with the extra engine and safety features removed.
I think the parallel you were trying to draw at 5:17 to the y wing was more suited to sleeper car for a comparison.
Double gonk! DOUBLE GONK! WE GOT A SUPER GONK ON THE DECK PEOPLE!. 2:58
There's been a lot of criticism at the Star Fortress's bombing capabilities. The bombs could still rely on gravity, as the targets were between the bombers and the planet, and gravity still "works" at an impressive range. (Our moon is held in orbit by Earth's gravity.) Alternatively, they could be pushed out magnetically by polarizing the rails. Either explanation is viable. That said, the ship it's is jank AF.
I've gotta complain about your dismissal of the Razor Crest. If the Millennium Falcon had gone through what the Razor Crest went through it would have looked pretty janky as well.
They're both amazingly sturdy and reliable ships.
That was a sentient amphibian NOT a "sentient lizard"!!
I figure if it flies you've got no business calling it janky. Make mine Corillian!
Sure, it's tough as over-smoked jerky, but it has so many problems that it's only useful because Mando is a god.
@@thesultanofswing8706 No more so then the dumpster fire that is the Falcon and Han Solo. Held together by so much bailing wire and duct tape that it should be wreckage floating around 5 star systems or sitting in a scrap yard and Han should be either lying dead with a blaster.hole in his head in some dirty back alley or rotting in some prison but yet here they are time after time barely escaping by the skin of their teeth because they are the Godfathers of plot armor.
It's like we all showed up for class at 8:00 lol
The ski speeder was originally for racing in asteroid fields. They would skip from asteroid to asteroid using the ski to stay attached to the rock. This is detailed in the incredible cross-sections for The Last Jedi.
Honestly the Y-wing feels like the SBD-3 In WW2 The US Navy wanted to remove it from service and it ended up killing more ships than any other torpedoe bombers
I just find it funny how the Twilight was seen for the first time in three seasons only to immediately blown up
The Falcon description is going to me my go to analogy in describing the state of my 07' Camry.
The falcon wasn't a tug in some universe or cannon or some place I seen a picture of it with the cargo in front and the gap in front is where the cargo is attached and is pushed and that's also why the cockpit is on the side so you can see around the cargo.
Daily dose of Star Wars knowledge
My idea for an Ugly. Take an AT-AT head and make it space worthy and possibly add some engines on the back. Attach a B-Wing body to either side of the head. Basically a BB-Wing with an AT-AT head. And call it a BAT-Wing!
Must be fun to be the guy who gets to design all these ships
Yea dream jobs
OK but the BB-Wing actually looks kinda neat. XD
Ahsoka: "master is the number on this panel important? "
Anakin: "DESTROY THAT SNIPS BEFORE SOMEONE SEES IT!"
That scene in the expanse messed with my head a lot, I watched it once and every time since I had to fast forward through it because it just disturbed me. Such a sad and cruel way to die
The description he gives for the podracer (horses pulling a pod) made me think "two-horse chariot". So this is a space-chariot race at like 1000mph, basically lmao Ben Hur, eat your heart out!
I know X-wings are one of, if not the best starfighters, but I can’t help but feel Luke’s X-wing belongs in this list, specifically the one he flew in Episode 5. That Dagobah swamp couldn’t have done it any wonders yet it still got him to Bespin just fine. I’d also like to mention the Imperial shuttle the Bad Batch uses as another noteworthy starship that went through a lot and probably deserves to be on this list.
My two favourite ships from Star Wars universe are the Ghost from Rebels in the Ebon Hawk from KOTOR and KOTOR 2.
6:16 i remember one of my books called this literal hunk of junk “terrifying”, as if these things were no better than target practice
“The ford bronco of star wars.” Absolutely the best comparison. So fitting.
6:00
*Shows a British Lewis LMG*
*Immediately calls it GERMAN*
What the actual hell?! The Lewis Machine gun looks NOTHING like the Germany LMGs!
I nearly spat out my tea when he said that!
I blame our editor Congo for this while he is a gun nut he’s knowledge of historical firearms is lacking
@@GenerationTech tell him a nerd would like a word with him. I feel insulted being British 🇬🇧
@@the_once-and-future_king. that’s the most british thing i’ve read in awhile
The Lewis Gun was not German but American designed and British-built. The MG-43, one of the stormtroopers long guns were Wehrmacht light machine guns.
the millennium falcon is like your older brothers friends car that sounds like it's got marbles in the exhaust, scrapes on every rock and is always breaking down. But that's because it's a 700 Hp 1995 Honda civic RWD conversion, a 4-rotor swap with an 88mm Garrett turbo and all the goodies to make it work.
Love how you always throw shade at the "good guys"
Someone needs to get them off their high horse
Very enjoyable video. Many thanks for all the time and hard work you put in 🇬🇧👍
a razor crest made of Mandalorian iron? now that's a good ship.
Gotta say, those Ski Speeder pilots are great actors. They legitimately looked like they were shitting themselves and I don't blame them for a second
The thing about the star fortress's bombing, sure there is no gravity in space however the ship itself has gravity projectors which is why the remote falls towards space in the scene. That was Ryan Johnson explaining in that short scene why the bombs fall towards their target. Artificial gravity accelerates them and since there is no friction in space the bombs keep moving as if they were shot out of a cannon or launched like missiles.
I was really surprised that the Kotor 2 Ebon Hawk wasn’t on this list
I out of all of the star ships from the star wars movies, by far my absolute favorite is the Corellian Corvette and very close second is the Hammerhead Corvette from Rogue One
Ma dude I have not seen your face in videos for a long time, another really good video broken down in a very well thought way.
I feel like we'd chill in person forreal, talking star wars nerddom and hating on Triumph and talking firearms. Id be happy to have a beer with ya dude, great vid!
According to your analogy: Flying a Y-Wing against the New Order would be like going up against Mig-19s in a Sopwith Camel.
It would be a miracle if you survived that.
The book Owners manual of YT-1500/Millennium Falcon. Says it was a YT-1500 FT (Freight Transport) now a YT-1500 FPT (Freight and Passenger Transport), It had more 5 different owners before Lando and as many as many 12 different names, Flicky Flyer &Wayward Brother to name a few. It's been upgraded abandoned, upgraded again, crashed into a luxury liner, rebuilt with most of the front half of a YT-1500 PT (Passenger Transport), modified by Han solo with the Class 10 backup removed to make room for the jerry-rigged .5 hyperdrive. But Falcon had trouble even before leaving the factory. It's engines ignited during its first liquid metal fueling and destroyed three ships ahead of it in the assembly line.
That title will confused the rabid shippers in the fandom.
Why did Leia suggest kissing a Wookie?
Since Din Djaren is going back to Mandalore, there is a possibility he can pick up a Kom'rk and finally have a ship that can match his skills.
Did you see the new episode?
At what point did those ski speeders seem like a good idea? As far as I could tell, they didn't even have working weapons.
Ironically the Uglies have my favorite asthetic. Especially ones like the Tye-Wing.
I think about making a rc racing pod for a long time already... But I'm still undecided about the details.
But probably a hovercraft with the 2 pods in the front... Maybe EDF motors, I don't know.
Well, we'll see, I guess.
Just when I had recovered from the Razor Crest getting blown up you had to give me PTSD 😭
The Lewis gun was used by the British in world war 1. The stormtroopers blaster is a sterling smg used by the British in WW2. Han’s blaster was a broom handle Mauser
9:50 Chariot racing, not a full cart. Pod racing is basically an homage to that plotline in Ben-Hur. Down to multiple people in the race crashing. Ep 1 is a darker version of Ben-Hur, now that I think about it…
Honestly I would buy a B/SF-17 to use as a mobile home, it's bomb bay can fit a few bunks, plus it's good potential for cargo pod and external fuel tank hardpoints.
I like the flying brick, namely the YV-929 armed freighter thank you
Laughed my ass off.
Great video.
Unpopular opinion: The Star Fortress wasn't bad, the resistance just used it wrong. It's very clearly not cut out for contested air-space (space-space?)
I actually agree with this they fought that battle wrong Poe and the other fighters should have flown ahead cleared the way with bombers standing by till the air space was safer. I doubt it would have been completely clear but they probably would have lost less.
@@issaicx i though the star fortress was for blowing up civlilian citys becuse it has a crap load of bombs
@@andrewaftontheandroidhedge2780 I believe it is meant for strategic bombing, but they were trying to use it as a strike bomber much like the y wing. The Star fortresses isn’t built for this role. It’s built for formation bombing with ether air dominance already established or under heavy escort. They used the wrong craft for this op. Yes it had the pay load capacity to get the job done as quick as possible. But they played to all its weaknesses that it’s only plot armor bs that one managed to do its job.
RIP Razorcrest
Given how janky the standard B-Wing is, I really can't see how the BB-Wing would be worse. If anything, it looks like it should be less janky.
The Y-wing bomber is the 1911 of ships
Gotta love Allen pointing out hipster bullcrap. The meta joke is top notch.
Best way to sum up a y wing is boom and zoom. Similar tactict used in ww2 by American fighters and interceptors due to their high dive veclocity but less agile turning rates at those speeds. If you played war thunder think something like a p51 or p47.
The SF-17 is an good example of a "somebody needs to tell this dude this is a bad idea" situation
I'm not sketchy! You're sketchy!
I will change my cats name to Janky.
Here that, Mr. Kitty? You're Janky now!
So good old and brave Steve will most likely be flying a Star Fortress?