Jiub: “Stand up. There you go. You were dreaming. What's your name?" Dagoth Ur: “What a fool you are. I'm a god. What a grand and intoxicating innocence.” Jiub: “Ok, maybe just go back to sleep then.”
Sleeves Pique is to upset or excite someone. You will sometimes see peek one's interest for pique one's interest, but don't be fooled. If you're piquing someone's interest, you are exciting their interest not taking a quick look at it.
What if the snow elves never sacked saarthal? What if Paarthurnax didn’t side against Alduin? What if Almalexia didn’t kill Sotha-Sil? What if Martin Septim didn’t believe you when you told him that he was the emperor’s son? What if Serana sided with her father? What if Dagoth Ur wore pants? What if Runs-in-circles didn’t say “Ni, Ni, Ni, Ni, Ni”?
“What if Almalexia didn’t kill Sotha Sil?” I would very much like to see this one. I’ve always kind of wondered what that crazy cyborg would have done.
If Runs-In-Circles never said "Ni-ni-ni-ni-ni-ni-ni" then I don't think the dragons would have been able to return. Alduin just wouldn't stand a chance against her.
@@docartemis2878 That is a good one. I really wanted to play the Sotha Sil expanded mod for Morrowind and apparently it is awesome if the game would cooperate. Too bad that the devs did SS so dirty in the game. This mod gives a huge world all about what the 3rd sneaky pete tribunal was up to & had a lot of custom scripting.
I think that would create a black hole that would swallow Nirn. Or alternatively both screw each other and one prince is gone forever as well as the ideal masters.
Ideas for another installment in this possible series: What if the activation of the Numidium did NOT create a Dragon Break and the Warp in the West? What if the Mythic Dawn failed to assassinate Uriel Septim? Would the Empire still be going strong without the Oblivion Crisis? Would the Thalmor still be making a push? Would the Argonian invasion still occur after the Red Year? What if Jagar Tharn was never discovered? What if the Kamal invasion of Tamriel had not been stopped? Alternatively, what if the Tsaeci had not stopped Uriel Septim V?
I think he mentioned that the Warp in the West can't occur in this scenario, but he didn't go into much detail. Chances are the main thing that would happen is that the Illiac bay remains fractured and as a result there are are a lot fewer City Orc characters in Oblivion and Skyrim. And probably Black soul gems are harder to come by. And maybe the Illiac bay gets stomped on by the Daedra lol If every thing happened just like normal except the assassination fails? Probably things would push on. I mean, Mehrunes Dagon probably won't stop trying, having done so one or two times before, but the Empire would be more prepared by then. No Thalmor, because the Thalmor only had an opening because of the Oblivon Crisis (from the in-game Skyrim book "the rising threat"). I suppose the red year still occurs, but you don't have superpowered Argonians fresh from Dremora killing, and the Empire would probably step in to stop the Argonians once they got too far past Morrowind's border even if they did invade. If Jagar Tharn continued to rule, he would do so until Uriel died and Jagar Tharn kills his sons if any of them are born by then. The Oblivion happens. I am reasonably sure Martin isn't born until after Area, so Tamriel is probably screwed XD "What if the Kamal invasion of Tamriel had not been stopped?" Insert Mr. Freeze quotes here.
"What if the Tsaeci had not stopped Uriel Septim V" Elder Scrolls V: Ka Po Tun. "The Tsaesci Imperial State is in a protracted border war with the native cultures of Ka Po Tun and the Taung Mo. In their desperation, the Ka Po Tun have conducted rituals to channel the powers of Dragons killed long ago in ancient wars. Now these resurrected powers are overtaking the tiger-like people that have evoked them and threaten not only the Imperial State, but all of Nirn! But... ua-cam.com/video/xXcAjLtzf3E/v-deo.html ;D
"When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles" -from the Dragonborn prophecy Without the fulfillment of the Nereverine prophecy, the Dragonborn prophecy never comes to fruition, so Alduin and the Dragon Crisis never happen in Skyrim. But (and I'm going on quite the tangent here) Alduin _has_ to emerge somewhere; _tiid bo amativ,_ "time flows ever onward." But Alduin _can't_ return, which means the only way for this timeline to work out properly and paradox-free is if the ancient nords _won_ the Dragon War and defeated Alduin properly. Granted, history says the nords did win, so not much would change, but it's still interesting that Dagoth Ur sleeping in affects the timeline in both directions.
Remember that the prophecy was likely a transcription of an Elder Scroll, which are artifacts born of all time, past, present, and future. In this timeline, the Elder Scroll would have read differently, thus the prophecy would have been something else to fit the same moment in time.
General Falco But if the prophecy didn’t change, it would still be fulfilled. Elder Scrolls aren’t wrong, so even if the prophecy didn’t alter itself(which I think it likely would, since what’s the point of a prophecy if it’s wrong?) the foretold events would still occur, and Alduin would still awaken.
@@salmonmankingoftheocean7624 Not per se. None of the events in the Elder Scrolls are set in stone. Prophecies in the Elder Scrolls are not mere predictions, they are a series of events leading up to one major event. That's the entire reason why the Emperor uses the Moth Priests to read the Scrolls; so he can learn Prophecies and influence the future. It's heavily implied that's half the reason Uriel Septim VII sent the Nerevarine to Morrowind.
Serveant: "Master? It´s Time, wake up." DU: "Zzzzgrmmmph.....?? What now? I´m sleepy....go away." S: "But it´s time to cast down the False Gods of Tribunal Master. To avenge the wrongs they did you." DU: "Water under the bridge. I just sleep......*SNOOOOORE* "
7:44 we just gonna ignore the fellow that achieves Chim as he crosses the bridge, just says no to reality and walks through the stairs like theyre collision in a Bethesda game? ... Wait...
Surely the Thalmor were radicalized by imperial rule, Dwemer robots stomping on them and the events of the Daedric Invasion. The Thalmor of ESO were in the main far more pragmatic and accepting of other races. So no, I think the altmer would have had no reason to destroy man, instead preferring trade and the status quo. Unless the Empire had attacked them instead of Akavir ofc.
Yeah, that's right. But on the other hand they wanted to conquer Empire because they thought that queen Ayrenn is better ruler than imperial. So i think they would also think that mer is better than men.
it would also mean that the thalmor have more time to subjugate the maomer and garnish a strong naval force, they would also go further south to where the sky elves live searching for aldmeris this would cause the world map to grow as the thalmor find more land and factions
They wouldn’t want to destroy man but seeing as how they would view the empire as “weak and unfit the rule” after all these events they’d probably still conquer although not eradicated humanity, just make sure they follow under a more stable rule. Hell it might even be good for Tamriel in this timeline
@Myosotis hey I'm not saying it would end well (also this is the dominion not the alyids). Just knowing how egotistical the high elves are it wouldn't be a surprise if they believed they would be helping tamriel by conquering it
I dont think alduin would return, He returned "When the brass god walked again" and when red mountain exploded, according to the prophecy. No alduin = no dragonborn.
Wasn't the eruption decades prior to the game? Dicey logic there, as with all prophecy. Also, I think you've got it turned around. Alduin was "scrolled" away to a time when there would be someone in (perhaps that particular part of) Skyrim able to deal with him. The Dragonborn. No Dragonborn around Helgen, no return of Alduin.
I think alduin would return regardless. I purpose that the prophecy just used those events as reference points to indicate when he would return not as steps that must be taken.
Well, that's the prophecy according to the current timeline. If the timeline was altered, so too would the prophecy. The prophecy would be according the new timeline now. Alduin would still come.
I guess the way it could work is if Talos never got the Numidium it didn’t mean that it wouldn’t still be animated by someone else and just because dagoth ur didn’t halt access to the heart of lorkan didn’t mean that red mountain wouldn’t erupt in some other way so instead of nullifying the prophecy it would simply delay it until those criteria are met. Meaning that the animation of the numidium and the eruption of red mountain are inevitable.
The fact that Dagoth Ur would have achieved his goal if he just stayed the f*ck asleep is hilarious xD A empire free Morrowind because of those he hates the most
Well that was only a result of his goal. His real goal was to just remove the tribunal and basically infect every Dunmer with the blight, basically making a Dagoth controlled hive mind. Essentially because he believed that reality was just his dream than he’s entitled to ruling it
Dagoth ur goal was far more dangerous than that, to him reality is his dream and maybe he will eventualy replace the god head in his delusion, far more dangerous than alduin or dagon if you ask me.
If Mannimarco did succeed in replacing Molag Bal, it would probably be like the situation with the Hero of Kvatch and Sheo. Though Manny might maintain his goals and "morals" for a while, over time the title of Molag Bal would probably consume him thus turning him into Molag
Actually, the Oblivion Crisis couldn’t happen in this timeline, due to a compact made by Sotha Sil that meant that Mehrunes Dagon could not invade. So it wouldn’t happen.
@@frostfrog6393 except vvardenfell was still nearly destroyed by the Oblivion crisis and by the events of Skyrim, the continent is basically underwater. Morrowind and it's great houses might've actually remained completely fine if Mehrunes Dagon didn't invade
Andrew J Kiely Wouldn’t he be more concerned with the Greymarch happening during the oblivion crisis? I doubt he would take the time to fight Vivec during that.
The Tribunal would stop it before it even happened thus avoiding thousands of deaths,the weakening of The Septim Empire,The end of the Septim dynasty and so on
@@Papa-Squat that's what happened in the original timeline because vivec had disappeared. But because all 3 tribunal would still be alive by this time, the meteor over vivec City would never crash, thus morrowind as a whole would still be as strong as ever
Azura wasn't responsible for Awakening Dagoth Ur. She sent several failed Nerevarine over the years and you can find their ghosts in the Cavern of the Incarnate.
The Dwemer didnt dissapear, they looked into our realm and saw Windrose singing Diggy Diggy hole, they decided they could never match that and so went to shave their beards and become Altmer instead.
What if the Oblivion Crisis and Alduin's return happened at the same time and Martin traveled to Skyrim and defeated Alduin while the Champion of Cyrodiil took care of the Daedra in Cyrodiil? (instead of sitting at Cloudruler temple, the only thing he did there was figure out the portal to paradise which really Jauffre or Baurus could've figured out eventually) Assuming Martin would make it back to Cyrodiil in time to relight the Dragon Fires.. would him being as powerful as the Last Dragonborn change the battle at the temple of the one with Mehrunes Dagon? Would Martin even have to break the Amulet of Kings to defeat him? How would the timeline change if the Empire continued to be ruled by not only a Septim.. but a Septim capable of shouting entire armies to pieces?
I think you're wrong about the Oblivion Crisis in this alternate timeline. Sotha Sil is still alive and well so he would still be enforcing the Coldharbour Compact. Mehrunes Dagon may still attempt to increase his influence on Nirn but he wouldn't be able to invade. He would also have no reason to help end the Septim Dynasty. we already know from the Interregnum of the second era that Sotha Sil is perfectly capable of guarding Nirn while Akatosh's protection is disrupted. it would need an event like the Soulburst during Akatosh's absence to allow him to attack in spite of the compact. this also means that the Crystal Tower remains intact and so does White Gold and the Empire, which also means that Alduin wouldn't return yet either.
I mostly agree with this (i've always loved alternate scenarios). To me, IMO without imperial influence in Summerset inspiring a sense of revanchism and a specific desire to definitively prove mer over man after hundreds of years of exactly the opposite, the Thalmor would more likely follow a path somewhat like Morrowind, but much more like in IRL Japan (well, also with the preexisting nazi-like focus on racial superiority) during its Sakoku-law period where it had utterly closed maritime borders, with absolutely NO entering or exiting save for a single port of trade from a single approved entity. Under this much less Padomaic and aggressive (as they never had the impetus to take the fight BACK to the imperials) and much more xenophobic and Anuic mindset, Summerset; or rather Alinor now; would have any non-Altmer expelled (mainly elves) or exterminated (mainly non-elves), trade and outside contact limited to the absolute bare essentials, and an extremely strict level of isolationism on par with Pyandonea, to the point where Alinor would join Tamriel-adjacent islands like Pyandonea, Yokuda, and Roscrea in being outside the common interpretation of what is considered to be the de jure continent of Tamriel despite their geographic proximity and (in the case of yokuda and alinor) racial (redguards and altmer) and cultural (noted warriors and foremost mages) presence.
Instead of Dunmer refugees fleeing to Skyrim because of the Red Year, you'll have Nord, Breton, Imperial, and Redguard refugees fleeing to Morrowind from the Great War and the Thalmor. The Tribunal would provide Solstein as a refugee station (having taken it from the Empire).
I loved how Morrowind stayed independent. Also PLEASE do the "if the Dwemer never banished". Oh and do the same with the Alyids I think that would be really cool. Sorry if i spelled that wrong.
I think that the Tribunal would aid the empire during the Oblivion crisis, because, even if they would be content to sit by and just defend themselves, someone like Vivec or Sotha Sil would realise that the Daedra need to be stopped, otherwise the hordes plus Dagon would be able to overpower Morrowind even with the Tribunal there, and thus, possibly stopping the Oblivion crisis without the need for Martin to sacrifice himself.
The biggest thing I can think of that would be altered due to Dagoth Ur never waking up, would be the fact that Tiber Septim never became the god Talos, because he didn't have the Numidium.
17:23 i have to say... youre completely wrong. the Nerevarine Prophecy might not occour at this time, it might have already occoured or might occour in the future. of course not the same events, but the Nerevarine Prophecy would be fulfilled someday since it has nothing to do with Dagoth; On a certain day, from incertain parents, the mortal with the soul of the legendary Nerevar will be born, whom will reunite Morrowind against the 3 false gods and protect Morrowind from all threats. of course this is not how the prophecy is actually frased (i dont want to go look for it on the wiki and i forgot how it actually is frased), but the prophecy is only about the reincarnation of the protector of Morrowind as well as the fall of the 3 false gods. the focus on the Morrowind's mainquest is Dagoth only because he is a huge threat to Morrowind, if Dagoth never awoke then we simply would see the Nerevarine cutting Vivec's, Almalexia's and Sotha Sil's heads without excuses 💀
I just got my ass beaten by two dirty final exams over the course of 48 hours with no sleep. Thank the lord I can fall asleep listening to this, you guys have impeccable timing.
Same, just a couple hours ago. Brought back all the memories of deciphering the lore myself and deciding Vivec deserved a slow death at the Nerevarines hands. Well, all 4 of them, but Vivec annoyed me most.
I now want an ES game where you travel back and change the events of history. This video is pretty cool. The implications are super interesting and pave the way for new and exciting lore.
It's cool you'd enjoy that, I'd feel it make things confusing. "What's the canon again?" "Which timeline is the definitive timeline?" It'd be convoluted to me. I like having just one and only one timeline, that can be fleshed out at incredible depth.
@@revolutionarycomrade One of my friends who have read almost all the elder scrolls lore books, said that because the dwemer shared great houses with the Chimer/Dunmer like Indoril, Hlaalu, Dres, Telvanni and Redoran they were considered the same race but slightly smaller in stature.
Good idea on making "what if..." videos. I've always loved potential alternative stories to be explored. Let's see some more of these. A request for a next "what if": What if the Mythic Dawn failed in assassinating Uriel Septim VII, thus failing to open the Oblivion Gates?
I'd love to see one of these for a world where Dagoth Ur defeated the Nerevarine, and took wraithguard. He'd be able to finish the Ahkulakhan, and use it against the empire.
@@MijmerMopper There's more than that though right. Death of Vivec would have caused Baar Dau to drop, causing Red Mountain to erupt early. Unless Dagoth used the Akhulakhan to prevent it.
I have a feeling that Vivec is not dead. If any of the Tribunal could escape his fate, it would be Vivec. He's probably wandering Tamriel under a pseudonym posing as some kind of wizard-priest doing strange but profound works understood only by himself.
10:15 Pelagius's father chose his sons wife carefully. He didn't know that it would be katariah, but he knew, at the very least, she would HAVE to be a shrewd diplomat, which I'm sure katariah wasn't alone in this trait, so, I think it's more likely to have shaken out more or less the same. The outcome of the empire is 50/50, but I feel confident that the father would have still chosen someone he felt capable of handling the situation. Plus, this video is more 'what if none of the events of Morrowind took place'. Dagoth Ur isn't really the crux of every situation or event taking place at this part of the time line.
I love that Ulfric supports the empire. I still side with either one (stormcloaks for lore, honor and being recognized, and imperials because of power, and helping the empire) but I like that they’ve teamed up. Also another idea for a lore video what if the empire won the Great War against the aldmeri dominion?
I do like the idea of the dwemer never disappearing...imagine the technology we would have our hands on by the 5th era! Lasers? Perhaps... air conditioning maybe?
i dont know if ive missed something, but in case i didnt, can you guys do a series of videos explaining the plots of those early elder scrolls games, arena and the like?
I think Vivec might have disappeared because he realized without the heart of lorkhan, he really is nothing special: just another mortal. Therefore, basically post-chim zero summing. Obviously the whole idea of chim is that your ego is strong enough for you to basically force yourself into existence & ascendence, so I think this makes sense
If I may say, one thing you did leave out, was the last Dwemer and what his potential fate was Because without Dagoth Ur, the return of Corpus would never happen, and so when the last Dwarf returned, he would not have fallen ill to it's blight
YESSS MORE ALTERNATIVE ES HISTORY! What if the Snow Elves defeated the Atmorans? Or What if Molag Bal and Mehrunes Dagon invaded Nirvana at the same time?
My second favorite story! For me personally, the nerevarine and tribunal story is amazing! Breton lore and culture is my all time favorite! Can you guys explore that in a future video? Thanks for everything!
Ways to explore Breton culture could be “What if they sided with the elves instead of the empire?” Or “What if more people cared about Bretons as much as I do?” Lol thanks for reading this far and being you!
I'm mostly wondering how the Tribunal would feel about the Thalmor gaining power. Would they back them, ignore them, or destroy them? If the three living gods are in play then they could change everything. What if they used the Numidium themselves? Morrowind with the full power of the the living gods plus the brass god could conquer all of Tamriel. Maybe Tamriel, ruled by the Tribunal, moves on Akavir.
Would the Argonian invasion even happen? If the Dunmer never really lose power then it's really unlikely they would risk invading. However I could see the dunmer conquering Black Marsh entirely and then being a possible enemy to the aldmeri dominion. Now you got me thinking lol thanks for the video!!
What if Dagoth Ur won? Or if the Nerevarine joined Dagoth? Vivec city wouldnt have been destroyed. The Dunmer would’ve much better prepared for the Oblivion Crisis. The Red Mountain never would’ve erupted and the Argonians never would have invaded Morrowind.
I feel like the bigger problem with Tiber Septim not gaining the Numidium is that it means Cyrodil remains a jungle. and not the fertile grassland Tiber Septim retroactively turned it into via the Numidium
Well, we'd never have got Dagothwave for a start!
the real reason dagoth ur is a genius
Come and look upon the heart,
Upon the heart,
Oh!
I'm a God! How can you kill a God? What a grand and intoxicating innocence!
I'm a God! How can you kill a God? Shame on you, sweet Nerevar!
Welcome Moon-and-Star,
Come to me through,
Fire and War.
O~h, o~h.
☝️this is what I come here for the lore is secondary.
Dagoth Ur: Eh, feels like I've been sleeping far longer then I should have, where am I?
Ralof: Hey you. You're finally awake.
*About to be beheaded* “I’m a god how can you kill a god...”
@@TheTendermen I imagine him waiting to shout that at Alduin landing on the tower.
@@insaincaldo i can imagine a fight between dagoth Ur and alduin
Oh shit.
@@werty21100 Five bucks on Dagoth.
Jiub: “Stand up. There you go. You were dreaming. What's your name?"
Dagoth Ur: “What a fool you are. I'm a god. What a grand and intoxicating innocence.”
Jiub: “Ok, maybe just go back to sleep then.”
Jaela Komnena oblivion npcs in a nutshell
So... Nothing about jiub currently in the soul cairn?
@@killiancraftofcraftyworks975 I doubt he'd have been soul trapped if the Tribunal was defending Morrowind.
@@TsukimuraMidori he was soul trapped in kvatch
@@Winrarnt okay, fair.
"What if the dwemer never disappeared"
You've peaked my interest... I demand a video
*piqued
Sleeves Pique is to upset or excite someone. You will sometimes see peek one's interest for pique one's interest, but don't be fooled. If you're piquing someone's interest, you are exciting their interest not taking a quick look at it.
I feel this is a must.
Sleeves nice try! Lol to be fair, it should be spelled that way!
Existential moron I would love tha the dwemer are my fav race pls muppet plessssss
What if the snow elves never sacked saarthal?
What if Paarthurnax didn’t side against Alduin?
What if Almalexia didn’t kill Sotha-Sil?
What if Martin Septim didn’t believe you when you told him that he was the emperor’s son?
What if Serana sided with her father?
What if Dagoth Ur wore pants?
What if Runs-in-circles didn’t say “Ni, Ni, Ni, Ni, Ni”?
“What if Almalexia didn’t kill Sotha Sil?”
I would very much like to see this one. I’ve always kind of wondered what that crazy cyborg would have done.
No one.
Not a soul.
Runs-In-Circles: *NI-NI-NI-NI-NI-NI-NI-NI-NI-NI-NI-NI-NI-NI-NI*
If Runs-In-Circles never said "Ni-ni-ni-ni-ni-ni-ni" then I don't think the dragons would have been able to return. Alduin just wouldn't stand a chance against her.
@@docartemis2878 That is a good one. I really wanted to play the Sotha Sil expanded mod for Morrowind and apparently it is awesome if the game would cooperate. Too bad that the devs did SS so dirty in the game. This mod gives a huge world all about what the 3rd sneaky pete tribunal was up to & had a lot of custom scripting.
What if Bethesda grew a spine and fixed the major messes of their games?
Please do more of these alternative history videos about ES lore
joe cuomo he should do one where Pelinal never got killed by the Ayleids. That’d be awesome!
@Austin Findley, those last three sound really interesting.
What if Clavicus Vile struck a deal with the ideal masters? Who would ultimately get tricked?
I think that would create a black hole that would swallow Nirn. Or alternatively both screw each other and one prince is gone forever as well as the ideal masters.
@@MrDarthtelos naw Sheogorath shows up and turns them into cheese. Or clowns. Or... CHEESE!
Spiderman pointing at Spiderman meme .png
Princess Bride wine drinking trick, "But I knew that you knew that I would think that you knew which one I wouldn't do, therefore...!"
“You may have outsmarted me, but I outsmarted your outsmarting!”
Quarantine messed up Dagoth Ur's sleep schedule as well, it seems.
@Orwell Jones Laeddis this works so well I hate it
@Orwell Jones Laeddis normal day with the boys in serbia
Ideas for another installment in this possible series:
What if the activation of the Numidium did NOT create a Dragon Break and the Warp in the West?
What if the Mythic Dawn failed to assassinate Uriel Septim? Would the Empire still be going strong without the Oblivion Crisis? Would the Thalmor still be making a push? Would the Argonian invasion still occur after the Red Year?
What if Jagar Tharn was never discovered?
What if the Kamal invasion of Tamriel had not been stopped? Alternatively, what if the Tsaeci had not stopped Uriel Septim V?
oh i know what happens if the mythic dawn fails to kill uriel septim 7, the universe just sorta freezes up. (badum tss)
What if Nerevarine comes to the empire and refuses to not fly, and is all like, "suck it."
What if skyrim only had one release
I think he mentioned that the Warp in the West can't occur in this scenario, but he didn't go into much detail. Chances are the main thing that would happen is that the Illiac bay remains fractured and as a result there are are a lot fewer City Orc characters in Oblivion and Skyrim. And probably Black soul gems are harder to come by. And maybe the Illiac bay gets stomped on by the Daedra lol
If every thing happened just like normal except the assassination fails? Probably things would push on. I mean, Mehrunes Dagon probably won't stop trying, having done so one or two times before, but the Empire would be more prepared by then. No Thalmor, because the Thalmor only had an opening because of the Oblivon Crisis (from the in-game Skyrim book "the rising threat"). I suppose the red year still occurs, but you don't have superpowered Argonians fresh from Dremora killing, and the Empire would probably step in to stop the Argonians once they got too far past Morrowind's border even if they did invade.
If Jagar Tharn continued to rule, he would do so until Uriel died and Jagar Tharn kills his sons if any of them are born by then. The Oblivion happens. I am reasonably sure Martin isn't born until after Area, so Tamriel is probably screwed XD
"What if the Kamal invasion of Tamriel had not been stopped?" Insert Mr. Freeze quotes here.
"What if the Tsaeci had not stopped Uriel Septim V"
Elder Scrolls V: Ka Po Tun. "The Tsaesci Imperial State is in a protracted border war with the native cultures of Ka Po Tun and the Taung Mo. In their desperation, the Ka Po Tun have conducted rituals to channel the powers of Dragons killed long ago in ancient wars. Now these resurrected powers are overtaking the tiger-like people that have evoked them and threaten not only the Imperial State, but all of Nirn! But... ua-cam.com/video/xXcAjLtzf3E/v-deo.html ;D
"When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles" -from the Dragonborn prophecy
Without the fulfillment of the Nereverine prophecy, the Dragonborn prophecy never comes to fruition, so Alduin and the Dragon Crisis never happen in Skyrim.
But (and I'm going on quite the tangent here) Alduin _has_ to emerge somewhere; _tiid bo amativ,_ "time flows ever onward." But Alduin _can't_ return, which means the only way for this timeline to work out properly and paradox-free is if the ancient nords _won_ the Dragon War and defeated Alduin properly.
Granted, history says the nords did win, so not much would change, but it's still interesting that Dagoth Ur sleeping in affects the timeline in both directions.
Maybe the prophecy would change based on the Timeline, or a different prophecy unfolds.
Remember that the prophecy was likely a transcription of an Elder Scroll, which are artifacts born of all time, past, present, and future. In this timeline, the Elder Scroll would have read differently, thus the prophecy would have been something else to fit the same moment in time.
@@drakedbz Not per se. Just because the Scrolls can change prophecy doesn't mean they will.
General Falco But if the prophecy didn’t change, it would still be fulfilled. Elder Scrolls aren’t wrong, so even if the prophecy didn’t alter itself(which I think it likely would, since what’s the point of a prophecy if it’s wrong?) the foretold events would still occur, and Alduin would still awaken.
@@salmonmankingoftheocean7624 Not per se. None of the events in the Elder Scrolls are set in stone. Prophecies in the Elder Scrolls are not mere predictions, they are a series of events leading up to one major event. That's the entire reason why the Emperor uses the Moth Priests to read the Scrolls; so he can learn Prophecies and influence the future.
It's heavily implied that's half the reason Uriel Septim VII sent the Nerevarine to Morrowind.
Serveant: "Master? It´s Time, wake up."
DU: "Zzzzgrmmmph.....?? What now? I´m sleepy....go away."
S: "But it´s time to cast down the False Gods of Tribunal Master. To avenge the wrongs they did you."
DU: "Water under the bridge. I just sleep......*SNOOOOORE* "
Its gods* with little g
@@feitme Nah, they doesn't deserve that damn capital g.
7:44 we just gonna ignore the fellow that achieves Chim as he crosses the bridge, just says no to reality and walks through the stairs like theyre collision in a Bethesda game?
...
Wait...
Surely the Thalmor were radicalized by imperial rule, Dwemer robots stomping on them and the events of the Daedric Invasion. The Thalmor of ESO were in the main far more pragmatic and accepting of other races. So no, I think the altmer would have had no reason to destroy man, instead preferring trade and the status quo. Unless the Empire had attacked them instead of Akavir ofc.
Yeah, that's right. But on the other hand they wanted to conquer Empire because they thought that queen Ayrenn is better ruler than imperial. So i think they would also think that mer is better than men.
it would also mean that the thalmor have more time to subjugate the maomer and garnish a strong naval force, they would also go further south to where the sky elves live searching for aldmeris this would cause the world map to grow as the thalmor find more land and factions
@@Yamifira If Maomer did not found Aldmeris i dont think Thalmor would.
The island disappeared and no one found it.
They wouldn’t want to destroy man but seeing as how they would view the empire as “weak and unfit the rule” after all these events they’d probably still conquer although not eradicated humanity, just make sure they follow under a more stable rule. Hell it might even be good for Tamriel in this timeline
@Myosotis hey I'm not saying it would end well (also this is the dominion not the alyids). Just knowing how egotistical the high elves are it wouldn't be a surprise if they believed they would be helping tamriel by conquering it
I dont think alduin would return, He returned "When the brass god walked again" and when red mountain exploded, according to the prophecy. No alduin = no dragonborn.
Wasn't the eruption decades prior to the game? Dicey logic there, as with all prophecy. Also, I think you've got it turned around. Alduin was "scrolled" away to a time when there would be someone in (perhaps that particular part of) Skyrim able to deal with him. The Dragonborn. No Dragonborn around Helgen, no return of Alduin.
I think alduin would return regardless. I purpose that the prophecy just used those events as reference points to indicate when he would return not as steps that must be taken.
Well, that's the prophecy according to the current timeline. If the timeline was altered, so too would the prophecy. The prophecy would be according the new timeline now. Alduin would still come.
@@propheinx2250 Not per se. That's not how prophecy works.
I guess the way it could work is if Talos never got the Numidium it didn’t mean that it wouldn’t still be animated by someone else and just because dagoth ur didn’t halt access to the heart of lorkan didn’t mean that red mountain wouldn’t erupt in some other way so instead of nullifying the prophecy it would simply delay it until those criteria are met. Meaning that the animation of the numidium and the eruption of red mountain are inevitable.
The fact that Dagoth Ur would have achieved his goal if he just stayed the f*ck asleep is hilarious xD
A empire free Morrowind because of those he hates the most
Well that was only a result of his goal. His real goal was to just remove the tribunal and basically infect every Dunmer with the blight, basically making a Dagoth controlled hive mind. Essentially because he believed that reality was just his dream than he’s entitled to ruling it
Dagoth ur goal was far more dangerous than that, to him reality is his dream and maybe he will eventualy replace the god head in his delusion, far more dangerous than alduin or dagon if you ask me.
@@TPOver9000 god head isnt canon. It's just a stupid theory that has never appeared in any novel or been acknowledged by anyone working with bethesda.
@@akiimbo980 chim is canon. You can't have one and not the other one. If chim is canon godhead is automatically canon.
@@akiimbo980 also it did get confrimed by the most important bethesda writer.
Please make more of these! What if Mannimarco's scheme to replace Molag Bal worked?
What if the Eternal Champion failed to defeat Jagar Tharn?
If Mannimarco did succeed in replacing Molag Bal, it would probably be like the situation with the Hero of Kvatch and Sheo. Though Manny might maintain his goals and "morals" for a while, over time the title of Molag Bal would probably consume him thus turning him into Molag
what if the planemeld occored successfully
Actually, the Oblivion Crisis couldn’t happen in this timeline, due to a compact made by Sotha Sil that meant that Mehrunes Dagon could not invade. So it wouldn’t happen.
True. Plus even if Dagon tried anything the tribunal would probably see it coming like they did the first time around
@@frostfrog6393 except vvardenfell was still nearly destroyed by the Oblivion crisis and by the events of Skyrim, the continent is basically underwater. Morrowind and it's great houses might've actually remained completely fine if Mehrunes Dagon didn't invade
Andrew J Kiely
Wouldn’t he be more concerned with the Greymarch happening during the oblivion crisis? I doubt he would take the time to fight Vivec during that.
The Tribunal would stop it before it even happened thus avoiding thousands of deaths,the weakening of The Septim Empire,The end of the Septim dynasty and so on
@@Papa-Squat that's what happened in the original timeline because vivec had disappeared. But because all 3 tribunal would still be alive by this time, the meteor over vivec City would never crash, thus morrowind as a whole would still be as strong as ever
*The Aldmeri Dominion invades Morrowind* .
The Trubunal: “SMOUT.”
I've been Cody, and this has been alternate history of tamriel.
darragh conron
It sucks that UA-cam demonetized him
Your videos have been really interesting lately, stay safe!
Dagoth's reawakening was pretty much only necessary to make sure there was a Nerevarine.
Azura wasn't responsible for Awakening Dagoth Ur. She sent several failed Nerevarine over the years and you can find their ghosts in the Cavern of the Incarnate.
@@SpaceWhaIe oh, shows what I know
@@SpaceWhaIe but were they really Nerevarine? Or Azura just tricked them into thinking that so they would do her commands.
The Dwemer didnt dissapear, they looked into our realm and saw Windrose singing Diggy Diggy hole, they decided they could never match that and so went to shave their beards and become Altmer instead.
7:40 - Time for a casual stroll through the bridge.
What if the Oblivion Crisis and Alduin's return happened at the same time and Martin traveled to Skyrim and defeated Alduin while the Champion of Cyrodiil took care of the Daedra in Cyrodiil? (instead of sitting at Cloudruler temple, the only thing he did there was figure out the portal to paradise which really Jauffre or Baurus could've figured out eventually) Assuming Martin would make it back to Cyrodiil in time to relight the Dragon Fires.. would him being as powerful as the Last Dragonborn change the battle at the temple of the one with Mehrunes Dagon? Would Martin even have to break the Amulet of Kings to defeat him? How would the timeline change if the Empire continued to be ruled by not only a Septim.. but a Septim capable of shouting entire armies to pieces?
Dragonborn Emperor = -Rules, shouting armies to pieces.
-Dies from some random Black Hand's blade/poison.
Yeah..
The points of tiber septim not rising to god status and the numidium in control of the living gods? A literal different world.
I think you're wrong about the Oblivion Crisis in this alternate timeline.
Sotha Sil is still alive and well so he would still be enforcing the Coldharbour Compact.
Mehrunes Dagon may still attempt to increase his influence on Nirn but he wouldn't be able to invade.
He would also have no reason to help end the Septim Dynasty. we already know from the Interregnum of the second era that Sotha Sil is perfectly capable of guarding Nirn while Akatosh's protection is disrupted. it would need an event like the Soulburst during Akatosh's absence to allow him to attack in spite of the compact.
this also means that the Crystal Tower remains intact and so does White Gold and the Empire, which also means that Alduin wouldn't return yet either.
What if the Nerevarine...was Fargoth?
I mostly agree with this (i've always loved alternate scenarios).
To me, IMO without imperial influence in Summerset inspiring a sense of revanchism and a specific desire to definitively prove mer over man after hundreds of years of exactly the opposite, the Thalmor would more likely follow a path somewhat like Morrowind, but much more like in IRL Japan (well, also with the preexisting nazi-like focus on racial superiority) during its Sakoku-law period where it had utterly closed maritime borders, with absolutely NO entering or exiting save for a single port of trade from a single approved entity.
Under this much less Padomaic and aggressive (as they never had the impetus to take the fight BACK to the imperials) and much more xenophobic and Anuic mindset, Summerset; or rather Alinor now; would have any non-Altmer expelled (mainly elves) or exterminated (mainly non-elves), trade and outside contact limited to the absolute bare essentials, and an extremely strict level of isolationism on par with Pyandonea, to the point where Alinor would join Tamriel-adjacent islands like Pyandonea, Yokuda, and Roscrea in being outside the common interpretation of what is considered to be the de jure continent of Tamriel despite their geographic proximity and (in the case of yokuda and alinor) racial (redguards and altmer) and cultural (noted warriors and foremost mages) presence.
Instead of Dunmer refugees fleeing to Skyrim because of the Red Year, you'll have Nord, Breton, Imperial, and Redguard refugees fleeing to Morrowind from the Great War and the Thalmor. The Tribunal would provide Solstein as a refugee station (having taken it from the Empire).
Forr roleplay purposes (with "console commands" as CHIM) I made my nerevarine disable Baar Dau and saved Morrowind from the Red Year.
I loved how Morrowind stayed independent. Also PLEASE do the "if the Dwemer never banished". Oh and do the same with the Alyids I think that would be really cool. Sorry if i spelled that wrong.
I think that the Tribunal would aid the empire during the Oblivion crisis, because, even if they would be content to sit by and just defend themselves, someone like Vivec or Sotha Sil would realise that the Daedra need to be stopped, otherwise the hordes plus Dagon would be able to overpower Morrowind even with the Tribunal there, and thus, possibly stopping the Oblivion crisis without the need for Martin to sacrifice himself.
The biggest thing I can think of that would be altered due to Dagoth Ur never waking up, would be the fact that Tiber Septim never became the god Talos, because he didn't have the Numidium.
Cyrodiil would have remained a jungle too.
@@peterquayle8172 True, I forgot about that part.
The Numidium had nothing to do with Tiber Septim achieving chim.
@@slimretro2659 That may be true, sorry.
So, Barenziah would have become Straw's wife and a peasant? Nice.
Here's an idea: What if The Alessian Slave rebellion failed?
That would have only happened if Pelinal Whitstrake never came to be and said "fuck them elves"
Now THAT is intriguing...Tamriel would look very different.
@Orwell Jones Laeddis It'd be interesting to see how the other races interact with them. I can see Nords and Redguards hating them
17:23 i have to say... youre completely wrong. the Nerevarine Prophecy might not occour at this time, it might have already occoured or might occour in the future. of course not the same events, but the Nerevarine Prophecy would be fulfilled someday since it has nothing to do with Dagoth; On a certain day, from incertain parents, the mortal with the soul of the legendary Nerevar will be born, whom will reunite Morrowind against the 3 false gods and protect Morrowind from all threats. of course this is not how the prophecy is actually frased (i dont want to go look for it on the wiki and i forgot how it actually is frased), but the prophecy is only about the reincarnation of the protector of Morrowind as well as the fall of the 3 false gods. the focus on the Morrowind's mainquest is Dagoth only because he is a huge threat to Morrowind, if Dagoth never awoke then we simply would see the Nerevarine cutting Vivec's, Almalexia's and Sotha Sil's heads without excuses 💀
But Moon and Star he's a god!
How can you unwake a god?
Such a grand and intoxicating innocence...
*Argonian with a Shynth playing tin the background*
I just got my ass beaten by two dirty final exams over the course of 48 hours with no sleep. Thank the lord I can fall asleep listening to this, you guys have impeccable timing.
Dagoth Ur? NOT waking up? Hah, what an imagination on this one
Definitely make this a series!😀
Alternate History: What if Reman Cyrodiil hadn't been assassinated?
Then we wouldn't have the sickest Dagothwave ever seen east of the empire.
I love this idea. It was interesting to hear all the implications of just 1 event being changed. Please do more.
You guys have no clue how much I look forward to these. I see FM, I click, that simple.
Dude I was just watching the Dagoth Ur lore video! The timing 😯
Same, just a couple hours ago. Brought back all the memories of deciphering the lore myself and deciding Vivec deserved a slow death at the Nerevarines hands. Well, all 4 of them, but Vivec annoyed me most.
At 7:44 you can see a dude just clip through the bridge on the bottom left.
40 years from now:
Fudgemuppet's latest video:
"What if the ants on the stump in Riverwood never woke?"
The real question is "What if Nazeem never went to the Cloud district?"
Just wanted to say you guys are great and thank you for so many years of great content
Hmm, what what if the Knights of the Nine would never have formed in the 3rd era and no one fought or killed Umaril when he came back?
Dunmers and their Splendid Isolation, I see.
Thanks for the dragon-breakdown!
I now want an ES game where you travel back and change the events of history. This video is pretty cool. The implications are super interesting and pave the way for new and exciting lore.
It's cool you'd enjoy that, I'd feel it make things confusing. "What's the canon again?" "Which timeline is the definitive timeline?" It'd be convoluted to me. I like having just one and only one timeline, that can be fleshed out at incredible depth.
Imagine if Dagoth Ur instead woke up in the 4th Era instead
Last time I was this early the Dwemer were still around...
Last time I was this early Lorkhan Tricked the gods into creating a way for humans and mortals
The dwemer aka the dunmer, because of war of the first council.
@@thomasrosendahl2783 dwemer aren't dunmer
@@revolutionarycomrade One of my friends who have read almost all the elder scrolls lore books, said that because the dwemer shared great houses with the Chimer/Dunmer like Indoril, Hlaalu, Dres, Telvanni and Redoran they were considered the same race but slightly smaller in stature.
@@thomasrosendahl2783 the dwemer were in Resdayn before the Altmer led by St Veloth even arrived. The dwemer aren't dunmer.
Good idea on making "what if..." videos. I've always loved potential alternative stories to be explored. Let's see some more of these.
A request for a next "what if": What if the Mythic Dawn failed in assassinating Uriel Septim VII, thus failing to open the Oblivion Gates?
This is a genuinely cool idea for a series, might be the coolest you've done.
I read "What if Dagoth Ur Was Never Woke" 😂
Did you SERIOUSLY suggest that Jarl Balgruf would side with the Dominion??? JARL BALGRUF!!! Did you even play this game?
Honestly, this Tamriel sounds REALLY interesting. I would LOVE to have had to choose between the Thalmor and the Empire in this game.
I'd love to see one of these for a world where Dagoth Ur defeated the Nerevarine, and took wraithguard.
He'd be able to finish the Ahkulakhan, and use it against the empire.
based on his plan, the Blight would basically make all Tamriel into ashlands.
@@MijmerMopper There's more than that though right.
Death of Vivec would have caused Baar Dau to drop, causing Red Mountain to erupt early. Unless Dagoth used the Akhulakhan to prevent it.
plot twist: the Dovahkiin defeats Alduin, is held up as Ysmir, becomes emperor and becomes the new Talos, reconquering Tamriel
I have a feeling that Vivec is not dead. If any of the Tribunal could escape his fate, it would be Vivec. He's probably wandering Tamriel under a pseudonym posing as some kind of wizard-priest doing strange but profound works understood only by himself.
It would be great if you could find him wondering around in Tamriel Rebuilt remote lands.
10:15 Pelagius's father chose his sons wife carefully. He didn't know that it would be katariah, but he knew, at the very least, she would HAVE to be a shrewd diplomat, which I'm sure katariah wasn't alone in this trait, so, I think it's more likely to have shaken out more or less the same. The outcome of the empire is 50/50, but I feel confident that the father would have still chosen someone he felt capable of handling the situation. Plus, this video is more 'what if none of the events of Morrowind took place'. Dagoth Ur isn't really the crux of every situation or event taking place at this part of the time line.
I always wondered how Dagoth Ur had a eye in his forehead
He smoked a lot of weed
Demon Hunter i dont have same affect.
@@vili9626 you don't have that Red Mountain Weed..that's why😉
This thought experment is a delight! Thank you, FudgeMuppet!
After you mentioned the Dwemer never disappearing i realized i've wanted a specific video more
Great job breaking down this video by the way.
I love that Ulfric supports the empire. I still side with either one (stormcloaks for lore, honor and being recognized, and imperials because of power, and helping the empire) but I like that they’ve teamed up. Also another idea for a lore video what if the empire won the Great War against the aldmeri dominion?
I do like the idea of the dwemer never disappearing...imagine the technology we would have our hands on by the 5th era! Lasers? Perhaps... air conditioning maybe?
Loving this new type of video! Keep it up fudgy muppets :)
I love alternate history speculations, so I would be here for a series of this kind of thing!
It's fun seeing the concept art of Dagoth Ur to try and make him not look so silly as he looked in the game.
i dont know if ive missed something, but in case i didnt, can you guys do a series of videos explaining the plots of those early elder scrolls games, arena and the like?
I'd have loved it if the Tribunal remained operational, they may have their flaws but there's no doubt that the Tribunal did good with their gifts
at 7:45 in the bottom left a dunmer walks through a bridge
I really enjoy the idea of vivec stark naked tearing through planes of oblivion
Yo your videos are killer for watching on a nose beer binge
I think Vivec might have disappeared because he realized without the heart of lorkhan, he really is nothing special: just another mortal. Therefore, basically post-chim zero summing.
Obviously the whole idea of chim is that your ego is strong enough for you to basically force yourself into existence & ascendence, so I think this makes sense
At 7:43 did yall see that guy walk straight inside the bridge?
Dagoth:”I’m a god, how could you kill a god?” Simple: we keep you asleep
7:44 that guy walking the bridge must have achieved CHIM and used the console to disable the colision.
We would never have the dagoth wave.
If I may say, one thing you did leave out, was the last Dwemer and what his potential fate was
Because without Dagoth Ur, the return of Corpus would never happen, and so when the last Dwarf returned, he would not have fallen ill to it's blight
I have a suggestion: what if the Dwemer never disappeared, and Kagrenac succeeded in his tapping into the power of the Heart?
Last time I was this early the God of Madness was the God of Order
YESSS MORE ALTERNATIVE ES HISTORY! What if the Snow Elves defeated the Atmorans? Or What if Molag Bal and Mehrunes Dagon invaded Nirvana at the same time?
I'm a god, how can you awake a god?
What a grand and intoxicating innocence.
please do more alternate histories! this is some quality content!!
My second favorite story! For me personally, the nerevarine and tribunal story is amazing! Breton lore and culture is my all time favorite! Can you guys explore that in a future video? Thanks for everything!
Ways to explore Breton culture could be “What if they sided with the elves instead of the empire?” Or “What if more people cared about Bretons as much as I do?” Lol thanks for reading this far and being you!
*Bumps against Heart of Lorkan*
A NEW HAND TOUCHES THE BEACON
I like how you can side with Ulfric, tullius, and the emperor against the thalmor with Ulfric and tullius being allies.
Welcome Moon and Star
I think the cool thing about CHIM is that Vivec probably knows everything you just talked about, having seen these alternate paths himself.
This is a great video idea! Please do more.
I'm mostly wondering how the Tribunal would feel about the Thalmor gaining power. Would they back them, ignore them, or destroy them? If the three living gods are in play then they could change everything. What if they used the Numidium themselves? Morrowind with the full power of the the living gods plus the brass god could conquer all of Tamriel. Maybe Tamriel, ruled by the Tribunal, moves on Akavir.
Would the Argonian invasion even happen? If the Dunmer never really lose power then it's really unlikely they would risk invading. However I could see the dunmer conquering Black Marsh entirely and then being a possible enemy to the aldmeri dominion. Now you got me thinking lol thanks for the video!!
What if Dagoth Ur won? Or if the Nerevarine joined Dagoth? Vivec city wouldnt have been destroyed. The Dunmer would’ve much better prepared for the Oblivion Crisis. The Red Mountain never would’ve erupted and the Argonians never would have invaded Morrowind.
This series is great! Please do more!
I feel like the bigger problem with Tiber Septim not gaining the Numidium is that it means Cyrodil remains a jungle. and not the fertile grassland Tiber Septim retroactively turned it into via the Numidium
Well, now we know what FudgeMuppet's been doing during the lockdown. Delving deeper than ever before into the Elders Scrolls lore.