So, what happened with the pan death replay bug was that the patch was applied this turn and Pan didn't resubmit his turn under the new patch while everyone else did
@20:10 It's possible that TC willingly gave that province to Agartha. The mountains to the north and south make it a natural chokepoint between Vaettiheim and some of TC's juicy interior lands. The only way for an invading army to march past there without trespassing through Agartha is to funnel through the two provinces between the northern mountains and the lake. TC already has forts and an army waiting in that region to defend against Pan, so their army could maneuver defensively without having to trek around to the east. If both Pan and Vaetti tried to attack through those two provinces then they would also be confined to a single tile each, with the possibility of bumping each other limiting their options. As discussed, Agartha and TC have been friendly for most of the game, and ceding that land is a minor price for the potential strategic benefit.
Yeah that was our plan, we invited Agartha to grab that to cut off Vaettiheim. We were blissfully unaware that Agartha had agreed to be Pan's vassal, and will be very upset when we discover he didn't bother to tell us that during this negotiation.
@@DemonsthenesDominions So sorry you had to deal with all that. People are really giving Panagea all the benefit of the doubt and you none, when they're such a toxic nation they should be considered on Nazca's or Vaetti's level, if not more dangerous and broken
Regarding the fight with the Pan thug: We were supposed to have the guys who had been pushed up to D4 via a crystal communion do big death spells on advance and cast to do Drain Life against thugs, but as noted the turn was a bit rushed. Oh and of course we cast Howl in the first place because it's really important for keeping enslave mind and Gifts from Heaven targeting away from our valuable stuff. (The gem burn wasn't as bad as it might seem in the we were using a decent amount of tempgem gear). But the plan was to try to kill a potential advancing Pan army, or at least look intimidating on that border, before withdrawing from the waste province to give it to Erytheia as part of a negotiated deal, cutting Pan off from the Throne of Life. The plan fails because Erytheia doesn't actually move to take the province, as you'll see over the next couple turns.
Also I would say that I was very sad that Pan didn't walk into the pocket ship trap; we'd tried pretty hard to make it seem we could not possibly get an army to that province. BTW the reason we really wanted to fight there rather than the Throne of Life is that the latter had a well of pestilence and we haven't invested in disease healing gear yet.
The throne of life fort with no lab had been producing a long stream of ceremonial masters (H1s). We need them to bless our armies because we don't have Bishop fish (no lakes) and preach to keep Vaettiheim and Pan Dominion out of our territory; we have probably 20 on the Midgard edge, so that fort has never needed a lab to produce useful commanders.
My read of the Pan army that moved out is that it was a medium commitment force designed to enslave the Eternal Knights based squad that I'd had patrolling in that province the turn before. Latch and I had considered sailing into the province Pan moved that army into the second turn; I can't imagine us losing to that stack if we had, but we decided not to because we couldn't afford the research to do so given the Xibalba situation, and it seemed very possible we'd run into a smaller raiding party given how cautiously Pan is playing in this part of the war.
The peace offer we got from Xibalba this turn is to surrender the two forts he has sieged, the two provinces he raided, and one more province, with a threat to add 2 more to the demand if we don't peace this turn. I'll post in Discord what we had inside those forts (6 mages plus in each, plus about 25 heavy cavalry and 6 cubes in the water throne) for those wanting to consider what you'd do in the TC position. It's a pretty darn hard offer to accept, in that we've already more or less given up 3 provinces including a Citadel to Erytheia, 4 to Vaettiheim, 2 to Agartha; so giving Xibalba another 5 provinces would leave us at about 40 with 10 of our original 13 forts and still at war with Pan with their 25 forts or so. So that offer was a rotten deal. But also: what is the alternative?
Regarding Vaettiheim, we put up Iron Walls on the Western Castle this turn, meaning that a single army based at Midgard could try to defend both forts from the Pan/Vaettiheim part of the alliance. And we had a promise from Erytheia that if we could bait a big Vaettiheim army onto that fort, Erytheia would hit it with Flames from the Sky to get revenge for that previous but if mercenary work. Combined with having cut Vaettiheim off from our core lands via the Agartha deal, and a deal to give Erytheia 3 provinces including a Citadel the we took from Arcosephale and the 4S waste where we fought Pan's thug, this in theory left us mostly just fighting Xibalba and Pythium's two thugs (who have been very annoying in blocking two province mage movement for us) and position 1 Pan.
Regarding Ziz, they can be summoned for 3D each with one of our A2D2 mages holding a skull staff. They're special for having storm flyer and a really strong cold aura; this means that a magic phase idol will have to spend a gear slot on cold resistance to not get knocked out almost immediately by them. And anyone doing cheese like a Golem with a staff of storms jumping in to cast Doom can have a bad day.
Regarding the idols, the goal is not just to kill but also to curse, afflict, and horror mark them. And neither wants their idol killed because losing an Astral path is super expensive.
Pan : pillar of fire are good because they can be casted turn 1 and therefore, with a lucky hit, you can manage to kill a mage that cast a battlefield enchant or just kill some raider
Regarding killing Agartha, we didn't really have an opportunity; before we killed Pythium, that land was held by them; and by the time our army killed the last Pythium army, we were already facing a coalition. The stuff we'd used to vulture Arcosephale was just border garrisons and our great eagles; only the latter would have been also used to kill Agartha, and they were only busy for a couple turns.
Crystal mages are really good even if you've got the path. We as TC would have really really loved S2E2s; as it is, we have about 20 Astral mages total: our Pretender, something like 4 S3 celestial masters, and a few Golems. So every unit who can cast Antimagic is special.
Of course they are great, and very cheap for the quality of the mage you are getting. I was quite happy to find another source of those. Iron adepts are more flexible but also 65 gold more expensive for the same value very often and some research bonus
@@maven9996I prefer iron order for the randoms even at the higher cost, and usually worry more about collecting necessary capabilities than about paying a bit extra to get them. The fire randoms in particular let one do my favorite counter to magic duel, namely the Phoenix Pyre, Returning magic phase attack.
@@DemonsthenesDominions I agree, of course, but when it comes to mass recruiting something useful, I learned to prefer cheaper inflexible variant Adepts are great, sure, and for me they could be the only source of S3 if I had them. For you too, of course
Man - imagine how scary this Xib invasion would be if Arco didn't just murder like 400 cats not that long ago. That's like two other of these big stacks.
Arcosephale killed I think only about 200 Ozelotl; a lot of the sacred kills he achieved with the NAP break were the recruitable bat sacreds, and he killed less than 100 Ozelotl in the battles involving his mage corps (65 in the first battle near Ulm, 18 in the second, and like 10 total in the two battles defending Jomon), and I don't think he broke 100 with his SC plays. But yes he'd have at least one more of these stacks on the prowl had Arcosephale not worked really hard to script his armies; it's pretty easy to kill almost none as a human nation without that effort.
So, what happened with the pan death replay bug was that the patch was applied this turn and Pan didn't resubmit his turn under the new patch while everyone else did
@20:10 It's possible that TC willingly gave that province to Agartha.
The mountains to the north and south make it a natural chokepoint between Vaettiheim and some of TC's juicy interior lands. The only way for an invading army to march past there without trespassing through Agartha is to funnel through the two provinces between the northern mountains and the lake. TC already has forts and an army waiting in that region to defend against Pan, so their army could maneuver defensively without having to trek around to the east. If both Pan and Vaetti tried to attack through those two provinces then they would also be confined to a single tile each, with the possibility of bumping each other limiting their options.
As discussed, Agartha and TC have been friendly for most of the game, and ceding that land is a minor price for the potential strategic benefit.
Yeah, I came here to say that it sure looks like a friendly neutral blocking move.
Yeah that was our plan, we invited Agartha to grab that to cut off Vaettiheim.
We were blissfully unaware that Agartha had agreed to be Pan's vassal, and will be very upset when we discover he didn't bother to tell us that during this negotiation.
@@DemonsthenesDominions So sorry you had to deal with all that. People are really giving Panagea all the benefit of the doubt and you none, when they're such a toxic nation they should be considered on Nazca's or Vaetti's level, if not more dangerous and broken
Regarding the fight with the Pan thug: We were supposed to have the guys who had been pushed up to D4 via a crystal communion do big death spells on advance and cast to do Drain Life against thugs, but as noted the turn was a bit rushed.
Oh and of course we cast Howl in the first place because it's really important for keeping enslave mind and Gifts from Heaven targeting away from our valuable stuff.
(The gem burn wasn't as bad as it might seem in the we were using a decent amount of tempgem gear).
But the plan was to try to kill a potential advancing Pan army, or at least look intimidating on that border, before withdrawing from the waste province to give it to Erytheia as part of a negotiated deal, cutting Pan off from the Throne of Life.
The plan fails because Erytheia doesn't actually move to take the province, as you'll see over the next couple turns.
Also I would say that I was very sad that Pan didn't walk into the pocket ship trap; we'd tried pretty hard to make it seem we could not possibly get an army to that province.
BTW the reason we really wanted to fight there rather than the Throne of Life is that the latter had a well of pestilence and we haven't invested in disease healing gear yet.
The throne of life fort with no lab had been producing a long stream of ceremonial masters (H1s).
We need them to bless our armies because we don't have Bishop fish (no lakes) and preach to keep Vaettiheim and Pan Dominion out of our territory; we have probably 20 on the Midgard edge, so that fort has never needed a lab to produce useful commanders.
Thx fir the explanations, makes a lot of sense to me now
My read of the Pan army that moved out is that it was a medium commitment force designed to enslave the Eternal Knights based squad that I'd had patrolling in that province the turn before.
Latch and I had considered sailing into the province Pan moved that army into the second turn; I can't imagine us losing to that stack if we had, but we decided not to because we couldn't afford the research to do so given the Xibalba situation, and it seemed very possible we'd run into a smaller raiding party given how cautiously Pan is playing in this part of the war.
The peace offer we got from Xibalba this turn is to surrender the two forts he has sieged, the two provinces he raided, and one more province, with a threat to add 2 more to the demand if we don't peace this turn. I'll post in Discord what we had inside those forts (6 mages plus in each, plus about 25 heavy cavalry and 6 cubes in the water throne) for those wanting to consider what you'd do in the TC position.
It's a pretty darn hard offer to accept, in that we've already more or less given up 3 provinces including a Citadel to Erytheia, 4 to Vaettiheim, 2 to Agartha; so giving Xibalba another 5 provinces would leave us at about 40 with 10 of our original 13 forts and still at war with Pan with their 25 forts or so.
So that offer was a rotten deal. But also: what is the alternative?
Regarding Vaettiheim, we put up Iron Walls on the Western Castle this turn, meaning that a single army based at Midgard could try to defend both forts from the Pan/Vaettiheim part of the alliance. And we had a promise from Erytheia that if we could bait a big Vaettiheim army onto that fort, Erytheia would hit it with Flames from the Sky to get revenge for that previous but if mercenary work.
Combined with having cut Vaettiheim off from our core lands via the Agartha deal, and a deal to give Erytheia 3 provinces including a Citadel the we took from Arcosephale and the 4S waste where we fought Pan's thug, this in theory left us mostly just fighting Xibalba and Pythium's two thugs (who have been very annoying in blocking two province mage movement for us) and position 1 Pan.
Missed global is Well of Misery by Pan now that Arco dispelled Xibalban Riches from Beneath
Regarding Ziz, they can be summoned for 3D each with one of our A2D2 mages holding a skull staff.
They're special for having storm flyer and a really strong cold aura; this means that a magic phase idol will have to spend a gear slot on cold resistance to not get knocked out almost immediately by them.
And anyone doing cheese like a Golem with a staff of storms jumping in to cast Doom can have a bad day.
Very cool didn’t realize that
Regarding the idols, the goal is not just to kill but also to curse, afflict, and horror mark them.
And neither wants their idol killed because losing an Astral path is super expensive.
Pan : pillar of fire are good because they can be casted turn 1 and therefore, with a lucky hit, you can manage to kill a mage that cast a battlefield enchant or just kill some raider
The spell that TC capital Dome stopped was Astral Window from Stone sphere
Regarding killing Agartha, we didn't really have an opportunity; before we killed Pythium, that land was held by them; and by the time our army killed the last Pythium army, we were already facing a coalition.
The stuff we'd used to vulture Arcosephale was just border garrisons and our great eagles; only the latter would have been also used to kill Agartha, and they were only busy for a couple turns.
Wait what, the previous video only came out yesterday! Surprise Christmas present?
Previous one came out on Friday. Turns now caught up to the real game though, so from now on episodes might become rarer
We totally need "Path to victory: Agartha" I think.
XD
Hey, Agartha's cap might be the biggest income province on the map thanks to their 10% cave fort bonus!
Crystal mages are really good even if you've got the path.
We as TC would have really really loved S2E2s; as it is, we have about 20 Astral mages total: our Pretender, something like 4 S3 celestial masters, and a few Golems. So every unit who can cast Antimagic is special.
Of course they are great, and very cheap for the quality of the mage you are getting. I was quite happy to find another source of those.
Iron adepts are more flexible but also 65 gold more expensive for the same value very often and some research bonus
@@maven9996I prefer iron order for the randoms even at the higher cost, and usually worry more about collecting necessary capabilities than about paying a bit extra to get them.
The fire randoms in particular let one do my favorite counter to magic duel, namely the Phoenix Pyre, Returning magic phase attack.
@@DemonsthenesDominions I agree, of course, but when it comes to mass recruiting something useful, I learned to prefer cheaper inflexible variant
Adepts are great, sure, and for me they could be the only source of S3 if I had them. For you too, of course
Agartha's cap might be the biggest income province on the map, thanks to the 10% cave fort bonus.
War!
Finally
Man - imagine how scary this Xib invasion would be if Arco didn't just murder like 400 cats not that long ago. That's like two other of these big stacks.
Arcosephale killed I think only about 200 Ozelotl; a lot of the sacred kills he achieved with the NAP break were the recruitable bat sacreds, and he killed less than 100 Ozelotl in the battles involving his mage corps (65 in the first battle near Ulm, 18 in the second, and like 10 total in the two battles defending Jomon), and I don't think he broke 100 with his SC plays.
But yes he'd have at least one more of these stacks on the prowl had Arcosephale not worked really hard to script his armies; it's pretty easy to kill almost none as a human nation without that effort.
@@DemonsthenesDominions ooh okay maybe I got it jumbled up with other happenings. Those things are scary!
Also merry Xmas to you both!
Not that they're doing something wrong, but really, Agartha? What a low blow