Anybody else like it when Leighton gets a little fired up and just flat out calls a spade a spade when it comes to calvinistic contradictions? Brother, the opposition that you’ve faced from frustrated and arrogant reformed theologians has sharpened your skill of teaching and debating biblical truth. You don’t have to apologize for showing passion and zeal when pointing out the error of these doctrines. I continue to pray for you, your family and this ministry🙏🏻
I don't like it... I LOVE it! 2 Corinthians 11:4 “For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” RECEIVED and ACCEPTED!
Tjel 81 Hatred? I’ve not heard any hatred coming from Leighton Flowers at any time. As for misrepresenting Calvinism, have you listened to his podcasts or watched any of his videos? He plays Calvinists sound bites and responds to their own words. He goes out of his way to make sure that the Calvinist that he’s refuting is not misrepresented. I only wish his reformed theological opponents would do the same for Provisionists and Bible believers, instead of painting all of their opposition as hate mongers or Arminian straw men.
@@matt_h_27 Agreed !? I am talking Calvinism here ! Because of Calvinism, believers are being paralysed, becoming ineffective, that is the reason Calvinism must be exposed and dismantled, which you might perceive as 'hatred'.
I would like to put a video of MacArthur saying that every sinner can ask good for eternal life and God would give them..🤦♂️ I think it wasn't MacArthur talking but the holy ghost
I definitely still had my Calvin lenses on last night reading 2 Timothy 1&2 and was so happy the verse came up during this video!! I have a few more that I feel I just can’t get my lenses off for...so hard after only seeing things one way for so long. I feel like anytime the word chosen, elect, predestined, before the ages, etc. I just can’t see anything but individual salvation election!!!
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years. Tell them what you believe about God: Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved. We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you. Take comfort knowing that we are not like God. We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did. So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God? So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you. Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases. My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren? I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not? Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren? TRUTH IN LOVE
@@truth7416 are speaking to me? I’m not a Calvinist. Left it about a year and 8 months ago. You’re probably replying to my comment while I was still in the sticky journey out. That comment is a year old. Things have turned around 180
@@AlanaL3 Alana I am so happy for you. Not many ever escape from it and this encourages me to stay my course in fighting Calvinism with the truth of Gods Love for us. Perhaps you can use what I texted you to show other Calvinist friends the cruel insanity of Reformed or should I say Deformed theology. Remember when you talk to them you are talking to someone like they are a Mormon or Jehovah Witness in a cult. It won't be easy and you will be abused. Your Angels are rejoicing in your coming to Jesus. Proud of you to. God Bless TRUTH IN LOVE
@@truth7416 I have talked to several of my friends....it feels hopeless. They’re unwilling to in some cases. I still do, but I don’t like the fruitlessness and the division it can cause. I am always conflicted in my spirit on whether or not I’m making to big of a deal of it, then I read the scriptures, hear a sermon at church, read comments like yours, and always come back to feeling it is a huge deal.
Thank you Dr. Flowers for this lesson on the Different Views on Election (Individual Election - Salvation and Service, & then the Corporate Election to Salvation) God bless you 🙏🏻😇
If you boast in your humility (36:35)……bingo! I thought maybe I was nuts on this but it seems like certain people are doing MUCH to prove how HUMBLE they are in their Calvinism. It looks nothing like humility to me. James tells us to humbly accept the word or message of the gospel. In other words believe it, faith. You can’t accept what you don’t believe and put your faith in. This is humility. James 1:21-22 New American Standard Bible 21 Therefore, ridding yourselves of all filthiness and all [a]that remains of wickedness, in [b]humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls. 22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not just hearers who deceive themselves. Thank you again so much for your videos exposing Calvinism for what it is.
Isaiah 30:15 - For thus the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel, has said, “In repentance and rest you will be saved, In quietness and trust is your strength.” But you were not willing,
This presentation highlights the importance of DETAILS. Details matter. There is so much contradiction in Calvinism. Calvinism puts forth one belief that then refutes other biblical teachings, causing Calvinism to create a tangled net they can't escape.
But it's useless for us who are not English first language or living in the 1600s. There are many other excellent textus receptus translation, nkjv is fantastic, especially with the footnotes, the MEV also excellent.
@@BloodBoughtMinistries actually it isn't hard as it is painted to be. Its written on a 5th grade level of reading so thats a good thing. Sadly the nkjv varies away from the TR alot and makes quite a few changes that lean toward a more modern reading which does result in doctrinal changes. The way the KJV is super careful to maintain fluid references from OT to NT is so spot on. I have many other translations that I've compared and the newer bibles fall so short when comparing accuracy and consistency and so many cross references are just lost in the newer bibles.
@@BloodBoughtMinistries In the new bibles they also change when Gods Repents which is an important thing when it comes to that word. As repent has been widely redefined over the years to mean something different, it is very helpful to know God repented or promised not to repent/have a change in mind regarding something and properly defines the word for us and we learn it by its use. The new bibles lead to much of the disputes we have today because so many are getting different meesages from different bibles. Is a topic I've studied for yrs and I tell ya, have found zero errors or mistranslation in the KJV and i never doubt even for a second,,Did God say this or that. Is a blessing beyond words
Leighton, God DID choose a certain group of people before the foundation of the world to save. He chose to save those who will believe on him FROM the foundation of the world! :) Our names are not written into the book of life before, but rather, from the foundation of the world...as we believe God! He chooses those who will humble themselves in order to hear his voice and receive his message of salvation! :) Calvinist's you CANNOT accuse us of meriting our own salvation because we believed. We didn't choose to believe, we were convinced that we were WRONG in what we were believing, therefore we turned towards God with faith in Christ because of his persuasive hard-working ministers of the gospel of grace! :) God is AWESOME!
@@matt_h_27 1 - The answer is free will, something that God will not violate. The Holy Spirit is limited to convincing, not to force conversion, that would be a delusional fraud. 2 - People are only being held accountable according the measure of revelation that they actually did receive. Luke 12:48
@@matt_h_27 So the proclamation of the Gospel is complete nonsense !? The bible is full of urgent calls to make the choices to repent, trust and obedience, your assumption is beyond ridiculous and anything but biblical. Romans 4:3
@@matt_h_27 Almost there! :) God gives his gospel/word and whoever will humble themselves and HEAR it is who God has chosen to call into his grace. If you ignore the gospel or mock it in prideful rebellion he will resist calling you into his grace. Matthew 23:12 - And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Proverbs 3:34 - Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.
See where it says Dead 2 times Ephesians 2: As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions-it is by grace you have been saved. A dead person cannot believe
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years. Tell them what you believe about God: Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved. We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you. Take comfort knowing that we are not like God. We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did. So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God? So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you. Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases. My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren? I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not? Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren? TRUTH IN LOVE
Online decree - LOL. Thanks once again for all that you do, I have learnt so much from you. Calvinism is even starting to infect Hungary right now, so I am grateful for these thorough treatments online. I am talking to my pastor tomorrow about Calvinism, as I probably know more about it than he does. I hope I can explain things well.
It strikes me how Calvinists frequently speak as though God were bound by time as we creatures are. This is the very kind of anthropomorphism which Calvinists often see in others. God only has one absolute & inalterable Will, which He has willed from all eternity. He does not have one will for one man & another will for another man. This introduces changeability into the nature of God. God is not fickle but always & in all cases the same. It is we who are changeable, arbitrary even. We change our orientation towards God, often there is no reason for our actions. We don't need to follow reason, that is part of what free will means. We always have the freedom to choose to follow God's will or to reject it. Like the Sun shedding it light in all directions & in the same way, God's love pours out on all creation in every minute w/o alteration. It always has the same saving power for all those who choose to receive it. All creatures do not choose to go out into the Sun, many creatures choose to become troglodites. Can't Calvinists see that they are making God changeable in treating one man one way & another man another way?
Does God command us to HEAR his voice so that when he finally gets our attention he can then say, "Thanks for hearkening to my voice, now all I wanted to tell you was that you can't hear my voice unless I supernaturally cause you to hear my voice, thanks for listening, have a blessed day!"??? Isaiah 28:23 “Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech.”
If the person "won't be saved without our decreed evangelism," (approx minute 49) that obviously makes the evangelist responsible for the eternity of another person... And we don't need to worry about doing or not doing anything since everything is predetermined anyway. No reason to care at all under this calvinist system.
Now, I ultimately love Leighton flowers, but I was preaching this last Sunday at our Church and I relistened to the sermon, and I probably said, “Ultimately” like a thousand times! And Now I know where I got it from! Lol. Leighton, you ultimately have affected me so much that I now sound like you. 😂😂😂😂
Amen. Que Dios protege a América Latina de esta heregia. Desafortunadamente, mucha gente piensa que después de las herejías del catolicismo romano y darse cuenta que no es el evangelio salvarse por medio de los ritos de la iglesia y sus propios hechos buenos, que la única doctrina es la de la iglesia supuestamente reformada, es decir el calvinismo. La verdad es que el calvinismo no es bíblico. San Pablo contraste las obras con la salvación por medio de la fe. El calvinismo no está de acuerdo con Pablo y dice, 'No la fe también es una obra'. Es un subtil rechazo de la doctrina de la salvación por la sola fe. Los creyentes correctos dicen que la salvación viene por la fe sola. El calvinismo dice que la fe viene por medio de la salvación. Es todo al revés. El calvinismo dice que la persona tiene que ser renovada y salva antes de creer. El orden correcto es siempre arrepienta y creer (tener fe) y entonces serás salvo. Que Dios bendice a América Latina y que bendice a su testimonio y ministerio. Amen.
"The elect person won't be saved without our decreed evangelism... It is absolutely essential for the sake of the elect that I do my evangelism." *WOW!!* So now the salvation of the elect hinges on mine/our evangelism!?! GAME OVER Calvinists!! Either that or some proper Calvinist better denounce what I've quoted John Piper saying. Just WOW!
apparently God is unable to save people by himself, he needs the help of a human to bring the gospel to those who won the cosmic lottery aka the elect, and here I thought God was all powerful and sovereign.
This is such a helpful video! Thanks so much. Here in the UK and new vicar preached strongly Calvinistic sermon to Ro 9 at my Anglican church. Was in shock. Everyone else I speak to either apathetic or not willing to challenge so far. But I strongly feel this is 'another gospel ' and repulsive and disgusting. Thank you for all your effort and help here Leighton. (And as a Brit, I love your accent!!!!! )
Trust me when I say, I used to hold unto this axiom but in recent times, I have found non-calvinists who are shown clear scriptures and will rather choose to argue away. So, it is a human problem just that the touch light is often on Calvinists. If we grab a well known non-calvinist scholar and all point the touch on everything he believes, you will begin to see that while most of what they say is true, there are still areas they will reject the evidence for their presuppositions. So, these days, I am careful to know if the person I am fighting with is also open to their own mistakes if the need arises.
sorry to be so offtopic but does any of you know of a way to log back into an Instagram account? I was dumb forgot the login password. I love any assistance you can offer me!
@Dennis Leighton I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff now. I see it takes quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
I also like what you pointed out before: The vhoice of Jacob was not unconditional; it was predicated on the condition tha tthey were from the line of Abraham.
Calvin's love to claim all things that don't make sense are " mysteries." Really? While there are mysteries we don't understand, can anyone believe that God's word would be mysterious?
I'm reformed, but also believe that neither side has it all figured out. I appreciate Leighton's explaining all of these positions and his willingness to have open friendly debate. One issue that yet needs to be answered by the non Calvinist, is what happens to those who never heard? Why isn't God fair and make sure everyone gets to hear the gospel? The American Indian for example, lived hundreds if not thousands of years before ever knowing there was a Jesus. The doctrine of election answers this... I see from the Vid Flowers has an opinion on this, but in the end, if free-will is true and God is fair to everyone, we should all receive the same chance-right? The more I study this and listen to both sides, the more I believe we just don't have all the answers and yes, even though its frustrating to both sides to say, it IS a MYSTERY, but not to God.
Maybe you are not understanding or accepting that God is truly omniscient (All knowing). By the time we reach the "Age of Accountability," every single person has had the opportunity to experience countless examples of how their immoral actions have harmed others; and countless examples of how the immoral behavior of others has personally harmed them (Each person knows by then that good and evil exist; and it should be obvious to them that they are guilty of committing evil). God knows everything. He knows that every individual is selfish by nature. But He also knows who would choose to repent if shown the truth. In the end, there are only 2 kinds of people: - Those who would want a relationship with God; - Those who wouldn't. Love by it's very nature involves free will. If I put a gun to your head and told you to love me, you would not actually love me... you would say that you loved me out of fear maybe, but that would only be pretending. God does not force, coerce, or threaten anyone. If you don't want a relationship with God, he simply gives you what you want... That's what hell is, life without God. (Imagine having to give an account of every immoral thing that you've ever done to the holy living God, then having Him say "I never knew you... depart from me you worker of lawlessness." Basically meaning.... "You spent your whole life refusing to want a relationship with your creator because you'd rather worship sin instead." If God is truly omniscient, he would choose to actualize a world where everyone who He knows would repent if shown the truth is given the truth. It specifically says in the bible that He has preordained the specific times and places that everyone is placed.
Steven Rivard I tend to agree with Mcgragor. That this subject “is a mystery, but not to God.” The thing about total free will and God knowing ahead of time who would choose salvation, has its own complications. Because if that is the case, then God still created people who He knew would not choose Him. It’s hard to explain, but free will would still be subjected to God’s sovereign plan. It would involve God creating billions of aimless souls; souls He would have to manipulate and depend on, through His own will, to save and do His work. Plus the prayers of those who would choose Him and their own faithfulness and obedience, in order to reach and save those who are still lost. Our salvation would ultimately depend on the obedience of existing believers. I am much more at rest, knowing that my salvation is dependent on God saving me and not on the faithfulness and obedience of believers who may, or may not, heed the call to witness and evangelize. I know I’m not communicating this very well, but it just seems to me that total free will also invites many other questions. Like God knows ahead of time how all of these aimless souls will respond to His calling, then He works out His plans accordingly because of His foreknowledge. That just doesn’t sound Biblical to me. We don’t call the shots in God’s plans. I’ve often heard those in the freewill camp say that God chooses (elects) those who choose Him. Does that really make sense? God’s Word says that He chose us before the foundation of the world - before we ever chose Him. This is a hard doctrine with strong convictions on both sides of the matter. But there’s one thing we can know for certain. God is a just and merciful God. Blessings ✝️
@@truepeace3 For each video, go to google and type... 1. Hell: Isn't the God of Christianity an angry God of Judgement? (Tim Keller) 2. Inspiring Philosophy The Problem of Evil: A Christian Response Those 2 videos should clear things up Let me know what you think
The elect are those who willingly believe(future tense)not the predetermined ,predestined by God to beleived(past tense) before the foundation of the world.
Any Calvinist listening to this podcast should have their eyes opened to the error of Calvinism. If they don't then God must have determined that their eyes remain closed. Or could it be that the god of this world is in the business of 'closing eyes'.
The view of others is as follows. In the corporate election, believers share in the election of Christ. Christ was not elected to be saved but for service and that is the election that believers share in "In Christ".
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years. Tell them what you believe about God: Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved. We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you. Take comfort knowing that we are not like God. We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did. So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God? So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you. Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases. My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren? I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not? Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren? TRUTH IN LOVE
I’m not a Calvinist. Not even close. But no Calvinist actually believes what you say in this comment. Calvinists preach the exact same Gospel as the Arminians. Like Paul, they urge all people to repent towards God and place their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. They simply disagree with Arminians on what accounts for why some people accept the Gospel and others don’t. Calvinists are not these evil, horrible people that many people on this channel seem to believe. I completely disagree with Calvinists on how to interpret some scriptures, but they preach the biblical Gospel freely.
@@toddstevens9667 Calvinists preach another gospel! They teach a doctrine of demons! They teach more lies than the Mormons of Jehovah Witnesses. That does not concern you?? Yes Calvinism is a horrible lie that dooms millions that follow it. TRUTH IN LOVE
Todd you are correct that they usually preach the same gospel. However that is dishonest because what they actually believe is not the true gospel, and if preached in strict accordance with Calvin's doctrines would sound just like what TRUTH has posted here. It is hypocrisy to believe one thing and then act like it's not true. If Calvinism is true, many of those evangelized CANNOT come to faith no matter what, so they differ from non reprobates. At least they have a chance. And they cannot in truth tell any unbeliever that God loves them, because they do not know. They could honestly preach fire and brimstone only I suppose, but that wouldn't do them any good either.
Wow this is not only putting nails in the coffin of Calvinism but is teaching us who God and Jesus is and I have to say I wasn’t sure I was going to be learning anything new when I first subscribed but over a short period of time I’m glad I have. This is done so as a child could understand it and that’s probably the problem with Calvinist in that they have forgotten the simplicity that is in Christ. I know you consider Calvinist brothers but I’m still not sure that we can do that because Jesus says his brothers and sisters and mothers are those who do the will of the Father and if it is as you’ve said unbiblical then they are out of the will of the Father. They definitely are messed up and need help and I pray and hope you can because how many people have rejected Christ because they’ve heard about Calvinism and believe they can’t be one of the elect. I’ll be praying for those also messed up by Calvinism in this way. Okay more than enough said.
Chris how did you know you were one of the elect when you were a Calvinist? That’s the problem with Calvinism and Arminianism. You can’t really know till you get to the end and that’s just not what God’s word teaches. I believe you were probably saved when you were a Calvinist but only you know that but it’s just a crazy way to believe in God and a lot of x Calvinist I’ve talked to said it would drive them almost mad sometimes with doubts about whether or not they were truly one of the elect and some even considered suicide and I don’t think you can blame that on the individual but the teaching has to bare the responsibility and i pray it would kick rocks but I’m learning to be more pitiful towards those still stuck in it but the teaching is still something that pushes my buttons. May we all continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ our Savior who died for the sins of the world because God so loved it.
@@nikao7751 you are correct the calvinist can never truly know. But I knew because I was persevering in the faith and 1 john described me and the Spirit testified also. I was born again because I out my faith in Christ. I did that before I was a calvinist....became one...and then I was brought out thru my pastor not affirming equal ultimacy which I did. In regards to your irritability...you should confess that and not allow those things to upset you. We are to be gentle and peaceful at all times. Anger leads to murder. Don't allow the flesh to justify righteous anger...get rid of that thinking too. Hallelujah.
Thanks Chris and will do. Part of being meek is when we are in the wrong we don’t hold onto it but rather admit and or confess it and when I do that I’ve noticed I’ve grown a little bit more each time. Not that I look forward to being wrong but I do enjoy the after effects of realizing it thanking God and the brother or sister that help me.
You conceded a common Calvinist argument that God said he hated the person Esau. God never says in Genesis that he hated the person Esau. He only says he hates the nation of Esau later in Malachi.
I really don't get it. Hypercalvinism is just the logical conclusion of the 5 points, and the sixth - that of the Calvinist view of God's sovereignty. The Calvinist view of God's sovereignty is that God micromanages every tiny detail of everything. Whether by the hearing of the gospel through human means or some direct divine or angelic intervention, all those who God has chosen will be saved, whereas no matter how much you preach and pray and train to reach the unchosen they were damned from the beginning of time. It makes God out to be incredibly unfair but that is the logical conclusion from STANDARD Calvinism.
OT routinely refers to nations by the name of their founder. "Esau" refers to Edom LONG after Esau had departed, and "Jacob" refers to Israel LONG after Jacob had departed, and yes, the election is to service even in that more corporate understanding. The Jewish people and people in the first century spoke way more about "affiliation" with God rather than specifically the idea of salvation, so reading an individual salvific perspective is missing the entire debate that Paul was addressing in his writing. It wasn't a focus on individuals NOR salvation but peoples and affiliation with God. Calvinism gets it wrong in both ways at once. Thank you for outlining that it is because of a Westernized ideology imposed on the text that people end up Calvinist.
Honestly, the more you listen to them the more crazy they sound. How can they not realise how evil and mad it is? I wonder if these high profile people continue because they would lose too much face to stop. Evil upon evil. So so sad.
Those thee's (singular pronouns) and you's(plural pronouns) that were once carefully translated in the KJV and earlier bibles help make precision on singular vs corporate alot easier to spot.
I do have a question on your point about the “light given” point you made about salvation. Are you saying that someone can get saved without hearing the gospel and God would allow them into Heaven without trusting in Christ? I hope that isn’t what you were saying, but I feel I must ask.
I can assure you Leighton Flowers would never make that claim. I'm not sure exactly what point in the video you're referring to, but Flowers will absolutely testify that the gospel is the only means of salvation, and that a person must trust in Christ.
Continued prayer for you in your call. Very important. I see growth in you and your ability to allow yourself to express passion for the true word of God. We are told to speak the truth of the Word. The motivation is not meanness but truth must be told. Speaking the truth in love. Thank you
How are they “hyper” when they are just following TULIP to its logical end? I don’t see anything hyper about their position. I see Christians who don’t agree with all five points, and some five-pointers who won’t go so far as fatalism bui contradict themselves without even realizing it. But hyper? I don’t believe there is such a thing. Same with “double predestination.” That’s not hyper either because if they say “we’ll, God only chooses who will be saved” then they have two problems: one if God doesn’t elect someone, then what happens to them eternally by default? So in choosing only some God is choosing others to condemnation. Two, if they don’t believe in double predestination, then how do they interpret Rom. 9:11-12? God loves the elect and hated the unelect according to Calvinist interpretation. Double predestination is fundamental Calvinism, and so is fatalism. My only hope now is that you would have the courage to call a spade a spade and call Calvinism what it is, idolatry. The Calvinist god doesn’t exist anywhere in Scripture.
Awesome ... awesome ... awesome video or class!!!! Thank you for the time and presentation. I grew up in church in small town in South Africa. Never knew or understood the theology of other denominations like Dutch Reform or their sister churches. Heard of Calvinism and Luther but never studied these guys. Only came upon it because my clients (I am a swimming pool tech in Keller Texas)sometimes ask me where I go to church. They probably think there is something wrong with my church in North Richland Hills. Some gave me books on John MacArthur on true faith which I enjoyed but after finishing his book I went to look him up and it seems he is a calvinist and censationist. I like the guy but cant at this point agree on all his theology. I had to look up what all these things mean. I just had the understanding growing up that Im called a believer and child of God if I believe the gospel that Jesus paid for my sin and repent of my sin and If I believe He rose from the dead that Im born again and I am now a new creation and that Jesus will baptise me with the Holy Spirit which is a promise for believers in Christ. I was also encourage not only to have the fruit but also the gifts of the Spirit , to pray for the sick , trust God for prophetic word , serve others , give to others, love on others. My father was a pastor in South Africa at what I guess would be labeled a charismatic or evangelical church in the USA. My dad planted the church as a young man. I dont think he knew what Calvinism or what a baptist was. He grew up in a very broken home. My grandfather was not a believer and my dad went to church secretly. He got save at age 14 and soon after he got saved wanted to preach the gospel. Probably the gospel from the Pentecostals in South Africa. Dont know their theology. My dad however worked on a coal mine and served his church in his early 20’s. Then felt a call to start a church in a small town. It was a non denomination. We walked the streets and preached on the street corners and later got a small building for those who wanted to be part of the ministry. To me it seems that some of these reform theologians love the word of God and they are seeking truth and they seem like loving studying but Im not sure if they are baptise with the Holy Spirit. I don’t know if they only have have great knowledge about scripture or about Jesus and whether the life of Jesus is inside them or the gift of the Holy Spirit inside them. When I look at John Piper’s debate with Rick Warren it seems like he is lost and he doesn’t get how people simply believe like in John 3:16. Is simple childlike faith not enough for the great theologians. I dont tell my clients Im a Christian. I have had a Hindo lady in Southlake told me she had a vision of Jesus in India and became a believer in Christ. I had another client last week who told me the doctor in Southlake declared him dead to his wife. His friend then decided to do mouth to mouth after the doctor declared him dead and revived him. My client now believes in God. Two weeks ago a still voice or idea popped in my head to go to a certain Great Clips to cut hair. I made a choice to trust that thought and that it might be the Holy Spirit. I went there and as I got there all the people there was talking and sharing Jesus and what He did for them. My hairdresser was a drug addict and the gospel of Jesus change her life. I have been going to all kinds of hairdressers and I believe that two weeks ago God wanted me there. The purpose of the bible is to introduce us to a living God who still talks and walks with people today. I trust that whatever theology we have or choose would lead us to faith in a living God who dwells in us. Personally I dont know what you call my theology but you need to trust God everyday. You need relationship! You must keep believing. Relationship with God is definitely a two way thing. God did His part to make a way for relationship.. you are invited ..jump on board ... trust and receive Jesus... trust that Jesus still wants to talk not only through pages in scripture but also through thoughts and dreams and signs and through creation. I have lots of personal testimonies. God have warned and guided us through dreams at night, Through prophetic word. Start hanging out with childlike believers and you will hear great testimonies of things God is doing. God is still the same.. And the Word is still the same... the wise intellectuals miss out because they lack faith... great to know a lot about scripture and a lot about Jesus. Sometime tasting a little for yourself is better than studying a lot... study the Word and then ask God to taste what you study... I thank God for seeing Him move... I probably needed it. I think if I only heard the gospel without seeing the power of the gospel I probably would not have believed. I meet people and see how the gospel transform people often. God is good!! Cant put God in a box 2 Peter 1 says His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us, If you read more from verse 5 then it talks about adding to your faith, add virtue, knowledge, self control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly love If you add these thing you will not be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of Jesus Christ, 2 Peter 1:9 for he who lacks these things is shortsighted , even to blindness and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins :10 THEREFORE , BRETHREN BE EVEN MORE DILIGENT TO MAKE YOUR CALL AND ELECTION SURE, FOR IF YOU DO THESE THINGS YOU WILL NEVER STUMBLE seems like we have responsibilities according to Peter.
Biblical Questions Answered With Michael Woods election is a group. It's literally says those who are in Jesus. You're reading the notion of individual election into the text. Read the Bible, especially this chapter from the perspective of a Jew who's questioning whether God really extended salvation to the Gentiles which is what it was written for.
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years. Tell them what you believe about God: Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved. We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you. Take comfort knowing that we are not like God. We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did. So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God? So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you. Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases. My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren? I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not? Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren? TRUTH IN LOVE
I don't believe in ELECTION as the doctrine of salvation but it is only one of the blessings to those who are IN CHRIST to be like Christ as predetermined by God the Father.
Calvinism and Arminianism are human attempts to explain the unexplainable. God is absolutely sovereign in His election of who will be saved, and at the same time, humanity is completely responsible to receive the gift of salvation that God offers. How these two truths harmonize is incomprehensible to the finite human mind. But, in the infinite mind of God, the two truths do not contradict. As prideful humans, we do not like to admit that we do not fully understand something. So, instead of accepting our limitations and just trusting God, we develop complicated and detailed theological systems to try to make sense of it all.
God in his great wisdom knows how to choose his elect without forcing them and uses his Justice in all of thishe doesn't force people to get saved he basically response to what he knows will happen and he knew how he would respond before the foundation of the world thus elect according to the foreknowledge of God
Knowing future events does not equal cause. If I know that my neighbor is going to leave for work at 6 in the morning, that doesnt mean I caused it to happen. God has known in advance those that would be saved, but He did not cause them to choose that salvation. He has predestined us, not to salvation but to sanctification. All those who are in Christ are predetermined to be made into the likeness of Christ.
therefore we do not end up with a bad God but a loving God who wants all to be saved but knowing all will not be saved gave that provision and still will judge righteously
God knows exactly how each person is going to respond to that gospel and sends it to them in a quart of what he knows aboutthose who respond to the gospel has a pre-designated path to Glory while those who remain in their fallenness will glorify God and judgment but it's not because God made them bad but because they kept themselves bad by not
therefore the Free Will of man is in no way taken out of the picture in the election of God we are individually elect according to the foreknowledge of God according to the plan of God he knew that some would not be saved
Biblical Questions Answered With Michael Woods it doesn’t mean He determines it. Foreknowledge doesn’t equal foreordination. No, knowing something beforehand doesn’t mean you’ve unequivocally and meticulously determined it.
Good explanation of the Calvinistic view of election. Question though at 20:53 from where does the idea come that there will be immoral people in Heaven when Paul refutes this very thing strongly in Eph. 5:5 "For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God." and other places like 1 Cor 6:9-10; Gal. 5:19-21?
Hey Dr Flowers I love your stuff, I wanted to see what your opinion on the “Beyond the Fundamentals” world view on Election knowing they have a similar opinion to Calvinism as you do
I don't agree with everything pst Kevin says but on his view on election, I have heard him over an over align with Leighton. He holds to the biblical understanding that election is to service individually.
ravissary79 I agree too that Kevin’s abrasiveness, (even with someone who’s on the same theological side of election) makes me uncomfortable that as well as redundancy, but still I think a duo of Dr Flowers and Pastor Kevin would a interesting interaction like when Dr Flowers hand Pastor Mike Winger on (of Hosanna Christain Fellowship) ahh good stuff
As someone who adheres to Calvin's perspective on election I don't believe you are representing the view properly at all. I do believe you intend to. Prob be best to do a live conversation with someone understanding your intention but can properly represent the position in contrast to your statements.
Because the choosing is done in Christ the ballot is faith in Christbut the key that the Calvinists are missing is we are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God and foreknowledge does not mean Loved before it means known before
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I would think that using a parable of Jesus' to prove a point comes from the highest authority and where as Paul's writings are inspired . It's not what Paul says...its what Jesus says.
John Piper Quote: God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . . That says it all about who Piper is. A NUT BAR Heretic TRUTH IN LOVE
What piper is saying is that, he stumbled on a wreck ship in the ocean where people are drowning, and what he did is save all the people who knows how to swim and leave behind all the drowning people who don't know how to swim. In other words, jhon piper came to save the righteous while Jesus Christ came to save the sinners...and if you still don't understand Calvinism then...forget it....😃😂🤣
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years. Tell them what you believe about God: Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved. We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you. Take comfort knowing that we are not like God. We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did. So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God? So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you. Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases. My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren? I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not? Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren? TRUTH IN LOVE
Leighton Flowers calvinism can be dismantled by simply reading Isaiah 42 where God speaking of the coming Messiah who will bring justice to the gentiles calls Him His elect Servant. The rule of first mention mandates according to this verse Election= Service unless otherwise defined and in this case it must be redefined by God which never happens. With that single verse calvinism is faced with three options 1 God cannot effectively and correctly communicate. 2 Christ is a created being that needed salvation and the Jews, Muslims and JW's are right. 3 calvinism is false. All three cannot be true.
Piper has no answers. He deceives himself into thinking he is providing good answers. Most of the time I can't even follow what he is saying. Circular mumbo jumbo that is contradicting.
John Piper Quote ( MacArthur as a Calviist would have to agree with this) God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . .
Hi Kevin, I don't believe so. We must be careful not to think that any time God reveals himself to somebody that this is right relationship with him. Even if that revelation is extremely dramatic like it was in Paul's case. I am in the UK and it's common here for people who go away on the Alpha course weekend to experience the holy spirit. But this is not evidence that the person has already repented of sin. We know without a doubt from scripture that repentance precedes salvation - for example see the verse below: Acts 3:19 ESV Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,
Perseverance of the saints is true it says it in Romans chapterperseverance is given to the saint as a gift so that those who are justified we're also glorified and glorification is a future event so the elect being unconditional yes that's true but God chose according to for knowledge according to 1st Peter chapter 1 so since it was the foreknowledge of God by the means that God has chosen that leaves everyone everyone responsible in their choice to choose the gospel or choose hell
Can someone who is not a calvinist give me their understanding of Romans 8: 28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. Romans 8:28-30 NKJV
As far as the people God forknew, only 2 full chapters later in Romans 11:1-2, Paul says this "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?" So I would plug Israel into your Romans 8:28 passage and you will get a totally different interpretation from the Calvinists. So, I ask you, who is God's people? It's clearly stated twice. Romans 9 is also directed at Israel, unbelieving Israel. Ever notice the Patriarchs are all listed here? Examples of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and also Moses. Think this is a coincidence, think again.
God acts in synchrony with his nature , not arbitrarily, thats why calvinists are wrong , the wicked resist grace , because god everytime call everyone to regret.
Jesus had many believers...He chose out of them, fisherman... to confound the wise. 1 Corinthians 1:27 “But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;”
All the great theologians in history held an Augustinian view of the role of God's grace and gifts in salvation, including Calvin...is Romans 8:28-29 so hard to grasp..? Individual Election to Effectual Salvation...
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years. Tell them what you believe about God: Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved. We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you. Take comfort knowing that we are not like God. We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did. So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God? So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you. Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases. My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren? I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not? Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren? TRUTH IN LOVE
I think the word you were looking for is 'good' not 'goo'. Mr Flowers is spreading good teaching to free people from the goo of Calvinism that sticks up people's minds and makes people confuse faith with works of the law when the Bible clearly contrasts them as opposites.
I must say I love Dr Flowers ministry. But since I got on this site I have been told I’m the non elect and going to hell (which I don’t believe as the old song goes “it is well with my soul); I am stupid, dump, uneducated, belittled. I work in a psychiatric setting so I am used to negative communication but by the mentally ill. Maybe I walked into an intellectually elite forum. I suspect but I have no proof that heaven will have more farmers, stay at home moms, average joe’s than the highly philosophical intellectual elite. I don’t think the Bible was written for theologians and intellectual elite only but mainly for the common person.
I have gone to a Reformed church for over 4 years now. I love the way the gospel is preached and i love the people there. I am having more and more problems with calvinism the more i learn about it. I am not sure what to do.
David Donicht I’m in the same boat, somewhat. It’s a tough call. The reformed church that we attend occasionally doesn’t push Calvinism explicitly (I doubt they even understand reformed theology, though they affirm it out of tradition); instead they focus on loving others and sharing the gospel. When my mind gets critical about the preaching I get frustrated by the wishy-washyness (sometimes undertones of Calvinism, sometimes word of faith, sometimes charismatic,.....no real exegetical substance). When and if I can turn my theological brain off I really enjoy the passion for Jesus and desire to have meaningful impact in the community. My biggest problem is learning to turn my brain off and just enjoying fellowship.
@@jaygee2187 Thanks. When i was saved i didn't know anything about Reformed theology. The more i know the more i want to distance myself from it. It is quite depressing actually.
David Donicht it’s incredibly depressing. I grew up reformed and spent my teens and twenties in severe, sometimes suicidal depression and anxiety. Guilt convicted me to attend church and panic attacks beset me when I went. Long story shot, I know I am saved because God loves all, desires all to be saved, and Jesus died for all.
@@jaygee2187 I know I'm saved, because I believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I believe Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, was crucified and rose again as atonement for all, and all means all. God only asks that we have skin in the game, and believe In His Son.
Brother lighting I submit to you that there is an unconditional election of the saintsbut it is according to the foreknowledge of God when he decided to be incarnated in the Son and died for the sins of the World
That question exposes Johnny Piper and when he cannot answer it he makes statements which are so ridiculous and unbiblical. he said then we "assume" that person who dies without hearing the gospel not elect?. I thought he believed that God elected certain individuals from the foundation of the world? Is God elects a person from the foundation of the world or when he hears and believe the gospel? Therefore his statements are based on assumptions :-) LOL. He could have been saved his reputation by not answering this kind of questions.
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years. Tell them what you believe about God: Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved. We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you. Take comfort knowing that we are not like God. We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did. So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God? So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you. Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases. My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren? I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not? Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren? TRUTH IN LOVE
Anybody else like it when Leighton gets a little fired up and just flat out calls a spade a spade when it comes to calvinistic contradictions? Brother, the opposition that you’ve faced from frustrated and arrogant reformed theologians has sharpened your skill of teaching and debating biblical truth. You don’t have to apologize for showing passion and zeal when pointing out the error of these doctrines. I continue to pray for you, your family and this ministry🙏🏻
Agreed.
I don't like it... I LOVE it!
2 Corinthians 11:4
“For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.”
RECEIVED and ACCEPTED!
Tjel 81
Hatred? I’ve not heard any hatred coming from Leighton Flowers at any time. As for misrepresenting Calvinism, have you listened to his podcasts or watched any of his videos? He plays Calvinists sound bites and responds to their own words. He goes out of his way to make sure that the Calvinist that he’s refuting is not misrepresented. I only wish his reformed theological opponents would do the same for Provisionists and Bible believers, instead of painting all of their opposition as hate mongers or Arminian straw men.
@@matt_h_27 There is nothing to love about that paralysing heresy.
@@matt_h_27 Agreed !? I am talking Calvinism here ! Because of Calvinism, believers are being paralysed, becoming ineffective, that is the reason Calvinism must be exposed and dismantled, which you might perceive as 'hatred'.
*"You have not, because you ask not. And you ask not, because God has not decreed it."*
-Calvinism
I would like to put a video of MacArthur saying that every sinner can ask good for eternal life and God would give them..🤦♂️ I think it wasn't MacArthur talking but the holy ghost
@@giaarmany7329 can you put the video link please...thanks
Doesnt make any sense...if God did not decreed, theres no reason to ask.
You are doing a great work here by revealing truth in a day when it is hid almost everywhere. Thanks!
I definitely still had my Calvin lenses on last night reading 2 Timothy 1&2 and was so happy the verse came up during this video!! I have a few more that I feel I just can’t get my lenses off for...so hard after only seeing things one way for so long. I feel like anytime the word chosen, elect, predestined, before the ages, etc. I just can’t see anything but individual salvation election!!!
Keep up the good work and God will continue to reveal His truth!
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years.
Tell them what you believe about God:
Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved.
We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you.
Take comfort knowing that we are not like God.
We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did.
So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God?
So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you.
Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases.
My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren?
I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not?
Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren?
TRUTH IN LOVE
@@truth7416 are speaking to me? I’m not a Calvinist. Left it about a year and 8 months ago. You’re probably replying to my comment while I was still in the sticky journey out. That comment is a year old. Things have turned around 180
@@AlanaL3 Alana I am so happy for you. Not many ever escape from it and this encourages me to stay my course in fighting Calvinism with the truth of Gods Love for us.
Perhaps you can use what I texted you to show other Calvinist friends the cruel insanity of Reformed or should I say Deformed theology.
Remember when you talk to them you are talking to someone like they are a Mormon or Jehovah Witness in a cult. It won't be easy and you will be abused.
Your Angels are rejoicing in your coming to Jesus.
Proud of you to.
God Bless
TRUTH IN LOVE
@@truth7416 I have talked to several of my friends....it feels hopeless. They’re unwilling to in some cases. I still do, but I don’t like the fruitlessness and the division it can cause. I am always conflicted in my spirit on whether or not I’m making to big of a deal of it, then I read the scriptures, hear a sermon at church, read comments like yours, and always come back to feeling it is a huge deal.
Thank you Dr. Flowers for this lesson on the Different Views on Election (Individual Election - Salvation and Service, & then the Corporate Election to Salvation)
God bless you 🙏🏻😇
Really enjoy and get fed spiritually from your work. Very refreshing spiritually. Thank you Dr. Flowers
And the Truth shall set you free!!! Thank you Leighton for clearly teaching Biblical Truth that is liberating and sets the captives free!
God bless you Sir for standing in Truth🙏
Glory To GOD!!!
Thank you Leighton Flowers!
If you boast in your humility (36:35)……bingo!
I thought maybe I was nuts on this but it seems like certain people are doing MUCH to prove how HUMBLE they are in their Calvinism. It looks nothing like humility to me.
James tells us to humbly accept the word or message of the gospel. In other words believe it, faith. You can’t accept what you don’t believe and put your faith in. This is humility.
James 1:21-22
New American Standard Bible
21 Therefore, ridding yourselves of all filthiness and all [a]that remains of wickedness, in [b]humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls. 22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not just hearers who deceive themselves.
Thank you again so much for your videos exposing Calvinism for what it is.
This was a very helpful video! Thank you !
Please Leighton do a presentation on Augustine. Once I read Augustines later writings, Calvin' false belief that Calvin got from Augustine made sense.
Wow, amazing teaching! God bless you!
Isaiah 30:15 - For thus the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel, has said,
“In repentance and rest you will be saved,
In quietness and trust is your strength.”
But you were not willing,
Great resource, thank you
Thank you
This presentation highlights the importance of DETAILS.
Details matter.
There is so much contradiction in Calvinism.
Calvinism puts forth one belief that then refutes other biblical teachings, causing Calvinism to create a tangled net they can't escape.
The great thing about the KJV is that it distinguishes between you-individual and you-plural.
Amen. It really does help to get a finer context.
But it's useless for us who are not English first language or living in the 1600s. There are many other excellent textus receptus translation, nkjv is fantastic, especially with the footnotes, the MEV also excellent.
@@BloodBoughtMinistries just learn how to read it. I can read the KJV and I'm not even English. Just took a little practice
@@BloodBoughtMinistries actually it isn't hard as it is painted to be. Its written on a 5th grade level of reading so thats a good thing. Sadly the nkjv varies away from the TR alot and makes quite a few changes that lean toward a more modern reading which does result in doctrinal changes. The way the KJV is super careful to maintain fluid references from OT to NT is so spot on. I have many other translations that I've compared and the newer bibles fall so short when comparing accuracy and consistency and so many cross references are just lost in the newer bibles.
@@BloodBoughtMinistries In the new bibles they also change when Gods Repents which is an important thing when it comes to that word. As repent has been widely redefined over the years to mean something different, it is very helpful to know God repented or promised not to repent/have a change in mind regarding something and properly defines the word for us and we learn it by its use. The new bibles lead to much of the disputes we have today because so many are getting different meesages from different bibles. Is a topic I've studied for yrs and I tell ya, have found zero errors or mistranslation in the KJV and i never doubt even for a second,,Did God say this or that. Is a blessing beyond words
Leighton, God DID choose a certain group of people before the foundation of the world to save.
He chose to save those who will believe on him FROM the foundation of the world! :)
Our names are not written into the book of life before, but rather, from the foundation of the world...as we believe God!
He chooses those who will humble themselves in order to hear his voice and receive his message of salvation! :)
Calvinist's you CANNOT accuse us of meriting our own salvation because we believed.
We didn't choose to believe, we were convinced that we were WRONG in what we were believing, therefore we turned towards God with faith in Christ because of his persuasive hard-working ministers of the gospel of grace! :)
God is AWESOME!
@@matt_h_27 1 - The answer is free will, something that God will not violate. The Holy Spirit is limited to convincing, not to force conversion, that would be a delusional fraud.
2 - People are only being held accountable according the measure of revelation that they actually did receive. Luke 12:48
@@matt_h_27 So the proclamation of the Gospel is complete nonsense !?
The bible is full of urgent calls to make the choices to repent, trust and obedience, your assumption is beyond ridiculous and anything but biblical. Romans 4:3
@@matt_h_27
Almost there! :)
God gives his gospel/word and whoever will humble themselves and HEAR it is who God has chosen to call into his grace. If you ignore the gospel or mock it in prideful rebellion he will resist calling you into his grace.
Matthew 23:12 - And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Proverbs 3:34 - Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.
See where it says Dead 2 times
Ephesians 2: As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions-it is by grace you have been saved.
A dead person cannot believe
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years.
Tell them what you believe about God:
Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved.
We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you.
Take comfort knowing that we are not like God.
We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did.
So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God?
So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you.
Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases.
My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren?
I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not?
Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren?
TRUTH IN LOVE
Irresistible Grace is ridiculous people resist the grace of God everyday
Online decree - LOL. Thanks once again for all that you do, I have learnt so much from you. Calvinism is even starting to infect Hungary right now, so I am grateful for these thorough treatments online. I am talking to my pastor tomorrow about Calvinism, as I probably know more about it than he does. I hope I can explain things well.
It strikes me how Calvinists frequently speak as though God were bound by time as we creatures are.
This is the very kind of anthropomorphism which Calvinists often see in others.
God only has one absolute & inalterable Will, which He has willed from all eternity. He does not have one will for one man & another will for another man. This introduces changeability into the nature of God. God is not fickle but always & in all cases the same. It is we who are changeable, arbitrary even. We change our orientation towards God, often there is no reason for our actions. We don't need to follow reason, that is part of what free will means. We always have the freedom to choose to follow God's will or to reject it.
Like the Sun shedding it light in all directions & in the same way, God's love pours out on all creation in every minute w/o alteration. It always has the same saving power for all those who choose to receive it. All creatures do not choose to go out into the Sun, many creatures choose to become troglodites.
Can't Calvinists see that they are making God changeable in treating one man one way & another man another way?
Is love voluntary? If to " love," is not a voluntary decision or choice, but rather it is compelled it IS NOT love.
Excellent
Does God command us to HEAR his voice so that when he finally gets our attention he can then say, "Thanks for hearkening to my voice, now all I wanted to tell you was that you can't hear my voice unless I supernaturally cause you to hear my voice, thanks for listening, have a blessed day!"???
Isaiah 28:23
“Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech.”
If the person "won't be saved without our decreed evangelism," (approx minute 49) that obviously makes the evangelist responsible for the eternity of another person... And we don't need to worry about doing or not doing anything since everything is predetermined anyway. No reason to care at all under this calvinist system.
Now, I ultimately love Leighton flowers, but I was preaching this last Sunday at our Church and I relistened to the sermon, and I probably said, “Ultimately” like a thousand times!
And Now I know where I got it from! Lol. Leighton, you ultimately have affected me so much that I now sound like you. 😂😂😂😂
lol
We need your work in Spanish please!!!!!!
South America is going nuts about calvinism 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Amen. Que Dios protege a América Latina de esta heregia. Desafortunadamente, mucha gente piensa que después de las herejías del catolicismo romano y darse cuenta que no es el evangelio salvarse por medio de los ritos de la iglesia y sus propios hechos buenos, que la única doctrina es la de la iglesia supuestamente reformada, es decir el calvinismo. La verdad es que el calvinismo no es bíblico. San Pablo contraste las obras con la salvación por medio de la fe. El calvinismo no está de acuerdo con Pablo y dice, 'No la fe también es una obra'. Es un subtil rechazo de la doctrina de la salvación por la sola fe. Los creyentes correctos dicen que la salvación viene por la fe sola. El calvinismo dice que la fe viene por medio de la salvación. Es todo al revés. El calvinismo dice que la persona tiene que ser renovada y salva antes de creer. El orden correcto es siempre arrepienta y creer (tener fe) y entonces serás salvo. Que Dios bendice a América Latina y que bendice a su testimonio y ministerio. Amen.
Yes, If there is anybody out there that could translate all this information into Spanish that will be awesome. Porfavor.
"The elect person won't be saved without our decreed evangelism... It is absolutely essential for the sake of the elect that I do my evangelism." *WOW!!* So now the salvation of the elect hinges on mine/our evangelism!?! GAME OVER Calvinists!! Either that or some proper Calvinist better denounce what I've quoted John Piper saying. Just WOW!
apparently God is unable to save people by himself, he needs the help of a human to bring the gospel to those who won the cosmic lottery aka the elect, and here I thought God was all powerful and sovereign.
This is such a helpful video! Thanks so much. Here in the UK and new vicar preached strongly Calvinistic sermon to Ro 9 at my Anglican church. Was in shock. Everyone else I speak to either apathetic or not willing to challenge so far. But I strongly feel this is 'another gospel ' and repulsive and disgusting. Thank you for all your effort and help here Leighton. (And as a Brit, I love your accent!!!!! )
The absurdity of Calvinism as the result of a corrupt moral and intellectual interpretation, can only be the fruit of a massive diabolic stronghold.
Trust me when I say, I used to hold unto this axiom but in recent times, I have found non-calvinists who are shown clear scriptures and will rather choose to argue away. So, it is a human problem just that the touch light is often on Calvinists. If we grab a well known non-calvinist scholar and all point the touch on everything he believes, you will begin to see that while most of what they say is true, there are still areas they will reject the evidence for their presuppositions. So, these days, I am careful to know if the person I am fighting with is also open to their own mistakes if the need arises.
Kevin has taught u well.
tivmego please provide a biblical reference that fits this criteria that you speak of. Thanks.
@@ayekaye8055
What criteria are you referring to please?
tivmego these “clear scriptures” that these non-Calvinists are refusing to acknowledge that would supposedly support Calvinism.
Calvinism is what happens when you adopt a systematic and only read the proof texts used by that systematic.
sorry to be so offtopic but does any of you know of a way to log back into an Instagram account?
I was dumb forgot the login password. I love any assistance you can offer me!
@Abram Drake instablaster :)
@Dennis Leighton I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff now.
I see it takes quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Dennis Leighton it worked and I finally got access to my account again. I am so happy:D
Thanks so much you saved my ass!
@Abram Drake Glad I could help =)
Great teaching.
I think people gravitate toward different soteriologies based on their personalities.
I also like what you pointed out before: The vhoice of Jacob was not unconditional; it was predicated on the condition tha tthey were from the line of Abraham.
Dr Flowers is a tool of God in these last days. You are a help to those struggeling with some of the poisons that has snuck into the church.
If you're boasting that you're elect ("in God's free grace"), are you even repentant? Can you be saved?
Calvinists create a false dichotomy to argue against non-calvinists.
Calvin's love to claim all things that don't make sense are " mysteries."
Really?
While there are mysteries we don't understand, can anyone believe that God's word would be mysterious?
I'm reformed, but also believe that neither side has it all figured out. I appreciate Leighton's explaining all of these positions and his willingness to have open friendly debate. One issue that yet needs to be answered by the non Calvinist, is what happens to those who never heard? Why isn't God fair and make sure everyone gets to hear the gospel? The American Indian for example, lived hundreds if not thousands of years before ever knowing there was a Jesus. The doctrine of election answers this...
I see from the Vid Flowers has an opinion on this, but in the end, if free-will is true and God is fair to everyone, we should all receive the same chance-right? The more I study this and listen to both sides, the more I believe we just don't have all the answers and yes, even though its frustrating to both sides to say, it IS a MYSTERY, but not to God.
Maybe you are not understanding or accepting that God is truly omniscient (All knowing).
By the time we reach the "Age of Accountability," every single person has had the opportunity to experience countless examples of how their immoral actions have harmed others; and countless examples of how the immoral behavior of others has personally harmed them (Each person knows by then that good and evil exist; and it should be obvious to them that they are guilty of committing evil).
God knows everything. He knows that every individual is selfish by nature. But He also knows who would choose to repent if shown the truth.
In the end, there are only 2 kinds of people:
- Those who would want a relationship with God;
- Those who wouldn't.
Love by it's very nature involves free will.
If I put a gun to your head and told you to love me, you would not actually love me... you would say that you loved me out of fear maybe, but that would only be pretending.
God does not force, coerce, or threaten anyone. If you don't want a relationship with God, he simply gives you what you want... That's what hell is, life without God. (Imagine having to give an account of every immoral thing that you've ever done to the holy living God, then having Him say "I never knew you... depart from me you worker of lawlessness." Basically meaning.... "You spent your whole life refusing to want a relationship with your creator because you'd rather worship sin instead."
If God is truly omniscient, he would choose to actualize a world where everyone who He knows would repent if shown the truth is given the truth. It specifically says in the bible that He has preordained the specific times and places that everyone is placed.
Steven Rivard I tend to agree with Mcgragor. That this subject “is a mystery, but not to God.”
The thing about total free will and God knowing ahead of time who would choose salvation, has its own complications. Because if that is the case, then God still created people who He knew would not choose Him. It’s hard to explain, but free will would still be subjected to God’s sovereign plan.
It would involve God creating billions of aimless souls; souls He would have to manipulate and depend on, through His own will, to save and do His work. Plus the prayers of those who would choose Him and their own faithfulness and obedience, in order to reach and save those who are still lost. Our salvation would ultimately depend on the obedience of existing believers. I am much more at rest, knowing that my salvation is dependent on God saving me and not on the faithfulness and obedience of believers who may, or may not, heed the call to witness and evangelize. I know I’m not communicating this very well, but it just seems to me that total free will also invites many other questions.
Like God knows ahead of time how all of these aimless souls will respond to His calling, then He works out His plans accordingly because of His foreknowledge. That just doesn’t sound Biblical to me. We don’t call the shots in God’s plans.
I’ve often heard those in the freewill camp say that God chooses (elects) those who choose Him. Does that really make sense? God’s Word says that He chose us before the foundation of the world - before we ever chose Him.
This is a hard doctrine with strong convictions on both sides of the matter. But there’s one thing we can know for certain. God is a just and merciful God. Blessings ✝️
@@truepeace3
May I suggest 2 videos that probably articulate this topic better than I can?
Steven Rivard I’m ok with that.
@@truepeace3
For each video, go to google and type...
1. Hell: Isn't the God of Christianity an angry God of Judgement? (Tim Keller)
2. Inspiring Philosophy The Problem of Evil: A Christian Response
Those 2 videos should clear things up
Let me know what you think
The elect are those who willingly believe(future tense)not the predetermined ,predestined by God to beleived(past tense) before the foundation of the world.
Any Calvinist listening to this podcast should have their eyes opened to the error of Calvinism. If they don't then God must have determined that their eyes remain closed.
Or could it be that the god of this world is in the business of 'closing eyes'.
@@matt_h_27 Please provide 3 examples of what you consider Leighton's figment of imagination.
The view of others is as follows. In the corporate election, believers share in the election of Christ. Christ was not elected to be saved but for service and that is the election that believers share in "In Christ".
Would love to start a page in Spanish utilizing your resources. The Spanish speaking countries are being inundated with Cavinistic teachings.
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years.
Tell them what you believe about God:
Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved.
We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you.
Take comfort knowing that we are not like God.
We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did.
So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God?
So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you.
Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases.
My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren?
I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not?
Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren?
TRUTH IN LOVE
I’m not a Calvinist. Not even close. But no Calvinist actually believes what you say in this comment. Calvinists preach the exact same Gospel as the Arminians. Like Paul, they urge all people to repent towards God and place their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. They simply disagree with Arminians on what accounts for why some people accept the Gospel and others don’t. Calvinists are not these evil, horrible people that many people on this channel seem to believe. I completely disagree with Calvinists on how to interpret some scriptures, but they preach the biblical Gospel freely.
@@toddstevens9667 Calvinists preach another gospel! They teach a doctrine of demons! They teach more lies than the Mormons of Jehovah Witnesses. That does not concern you??
Yes Calvinism is a horrible lie that dooms millions that follow it.
TRUTH IN LOVE
You’re crazy
Todd you are correct that they usually preach the same gospel. However that is dishonest because what they actually believe is not the true gospel, and if preached in strict accordance with Calvin's doctrines would sound just like what TRUTH has posted here. It is hypocrisy to believe one thing and then act like it's not true. If Calvinism is true, many of those evangelized CANNOT come to faith no matter what, so they differ from non reprobates. At least they have a chance. And they cannot in truth tell any unbeliever that God loves them, because they do not know. They could honestly preach fire and brimstone only I suppose, but that wouldn't do them any good either.
Wow this is not only putting nails in the coffin of Calvinism but is teaching us who God and Jesus is and I have to say I wasn’t sure I was going to be learning anything new when I first subscribed but over a short period of time I’m glad I have. This is done so as a child could understand it and that’s probably the problem with Calvinist in that they have forgotten the simplicity that is in Christ. I know you consider Calvinist brothers but I’m still not sure that we can do that because Jesus says his brothers and sisters and mothers are those who do the will of the Father and if it is as you’ve said unbiblical then they are out of the will of the Father. They definitely are messed up and need help and I pray and hope you can because how many people have rejected Christ because they’ve heard about Calvinism and believe they can’t be one of the elect. I’ll be praying for those also messed up by Calvinism in this way. Okay more than enough said.
They are saved because I was saved when I was a calvinist.
Chris how did you know you were one of the elect when you were a Calvinist? That’s the problem with Calvinism and Arminianism. You can’t really know till you get to the end and that’s just not what God’s word teaches. I believe you were probably saved when you were a Calvinist but only you know that but it’s just a crazy way to believe in God and a lot of x Calvinist I’ve talked to said it would drive them almost mad sometimes with doubts about whether or not they were truly one of the elect and some even considered suicide and I don’t think you can blame that on the individual but the teaching has to bare the responsibility and i pray it would kick rocks but I’m learning to be more pitiful towards those still stuck in it but the teaching is still something that pushes my buttons. May we all continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ our Savior who died for the sins of the world because God so loved it.
@@nikao7751 you are correct the calvinist can never truly know. But I knew because I was persevering in the faith and 1 john described me and the Spirit testified also. I was born again because I out my faith in Christ. I did that before I was a calvinist....became one...and then I was brought out thru my pastor not affirming equal ultimacy which I did.
In regards to your irritability...you should confess that and not allow those things to upset you. We are to be gentle and peaceful at all times. Anger leads to murder. Don't allow the flesh to justify righteous anger...get rid of that thinking too.
Hallelujah.
Thanks Chris and will do. Part of being meek is when we are in the wrong we don’t hold onto it but rather admit and or confess it and when I do that I’ve noticed I’ve grown a little bit more each time. Not that I look forward to being wrong but I do enjoy the after effects of realizing it thanking God and the brother or sister that help me.
What i get from what Piper says equal: fatalism
You conceded a common Calvinist argument that God said he hated the person Esau. God never says in Genesis that he hated the person Esau. He only says he hates the nation of Esau later in Malachi.
KrakenHuevos exactly
I really don't get it. Hypercalvinism is just the logical conclusion of the 5 points, and the sixth - that of the Calvinist view of God's sovereignty. The Calvinist view of God's sovereignty is that God micromanages every tiny detail of everything. Whether by the hearing of the gospel through human means or some direct divine or angelic intervention, all those who God has chosen will be saved, whereas no matter how much you preach and pray and train to reach the unchosen they were damned from the beginning of time. It makes God out to be incredibly unfair but that is the logical conclusion from STANDARD Calvinism.
OT routinely refers to nations by the name of their founder. "Esau" refers to Edom LONG after Esau had departed, and "Jacob" refers to Israel LONG after Jacob had departed, and yes, the election is to service even in that more corporate understanding. The Jewish people and people in the first century spoke way more about "affiliation" with God rather than specifically the idea of salvation, so reading an individual salvific perspective is missing the entire debate that Paul was addressing in his writing. It wasn't a focus on individuals NOR salvation but peoples and affiliation with God. Calvinism gets it wrong in both ways at once. Thank you for outlining that it is because of a Westernized ideology imposed on the text that people end up Calvinist.
Honestly, the more you listen to them the more crazy they sound. How can they not realise how evil and mad it is? I wonder if these high profile people continue because they would lose too much face to stop. Evil upon evil. So so sad.
Those thee's (singular pronouns) and you's(plural pronouns) that were once carefully translated in the KJV and earlier bibles help make precision on singular vs corporate alot easier to spot.
Living In Grace we need a Texas translation for those who want more modern English: y’all!
@@thebussbus lol
God exist outside of space and time. Ever wonder why the Bible talks about future events as if they happenend in the past?
I do have a question on your point about the “light given” point you made about salvation. Are you saying that someone can get saved without hearing the gospel and God would allow them into Heaven without trusting in Christ? I hope that isn’t what you were saying, but I feel I must ask.
I can assure you Leighton Flowers would never make that claim. I'm not sure exactly what point in the video you're referring to, but Flowers will absolutely testify that the gospel is the only means of salvation, and that a person must trust in Christ.
Pipers son was decreed to mock God?
Continued prayer for you in your call. Very important. I see growth in you and your ability to allow yourself to express passion for the true word of God. We are told to speak the truth of the Word. The motivation is not meanness but truth must be told. Speaking the truth in love. Thank you
How are they “hyper” when they are just following TULIP to its logical end? I don’t see anything hyper about their position. I see Christians who don’t agree with all five points, and some five-pointers who won’t go so far as fatalism bui contradict themselves without even realizing it. But hyper? I don’t believe there is such a thing.
Same with “double predestination.” That’s not hyper either because if they say “we’ll, God only chooses who will be saved” then they have two problems: one if God doesn’t elect someone, then what happens to them eternally by default? So in choosing only some God is choosing others to condemnation. Two, if they don’t believe in double predestination, then how do they interpret Rom. 9:11-12? God loves the elect and hated the unelect according to Calvinist interpretation. Double predestination is fundamental Calvinism, and so is fatalism.
My only hope now is that you would have the courage to call a spade a spade and call Calvinism what it is, idolatry. The Calvinist god doesn’t exist anywhere in Scripture.
Any school or college students
Awesome ... awesome ... awesome video or class!!!! Thank you for the time and presentation.
I grew up in church in small town in South Africa. Never knew or understood the theology of other denominations like Dutch Reform or their sister churches. Heard of Calvinism and Luther but never studied these guys. Only came upon it because my clients (I am a swimming pool tech in Keller Texas)sometimes ask me where I go to church. They probably think there is something wrong with my church in North Richland Hills. Some gave me books on John MacArthur on true faith which I enjoyed but after finishing his book I went to look him up and it seems he is a calvinist and censationist. I like the guy but cant at this point agree on all his theology. I had to look up what all these things mean. I just had the understanding growing up that Im called a believer and child of God if I believe the gospel that Jesus paid for my sin and repent of my sin and If I believe He rose from the dead that Im born again and I am now a new creation and that Jesus will baptise me with the Holy Spirit which is a promise for believers in Christ. I was also encourage not only to have the fruit but also the gifts of the Spirit , to pray for the sick , trust God for prophetic word , serve others , give to others, love on others.
My father was a pastor in South Africa at what I guess would be labeled a charismatic or evangelical church in the USA. My dad planted the church as a young man. I dont think he knew what Calvinism or what a baptist was. He grew up in a very broken home. My grandfather was not a believer and my dad went to church secretly. He got save at age 14 and soon after he got saved wanted to preach the gospel. Probably the gospel from the Pentecostals in South Africa. Dont know their theology. My dad however worked on a coal mine and served his church in his early 20’s. Then felt a call to start a church in a small town. It was a non denomination. We walked the streets and preached on the street corners and later got a small building for those who wanted to be part of the ministry.
To me it seems that some of these reform theologians love the word of God and they are seeking truth and they seem like loving studying but Im not sure if they are baptise with the Holy Spirit. I don’t know if they only have have great knowledge about scripture or about Jesus and whether the life of Jesus is inside them or the gift of the Holy Spirit inside them. When I look at John Piper’s debate with Rick Warren it seems like he is lost and he doesn’t get how people simply believe like in John 3:16. Is simple childlike faith not enough for the great theologians.
I dont tell my clients Im a Christian. I have had a Hindo lady in Southlake told me she had a vision of Jesus in India and became a believer in Christ. I had another client last week who told me the doctor in Southlake declared him dead to his wife. His friend then decided to do mouth to mouth after the doctor declared him dead and revived him. My client now believes in God. Two weeks ago a still voice or idea popped in my head to go to a certain Great Clips to cut hair. I made a choice to trust that thought and that it might be the Holy Spirit. I went there and as I got there all the people there was talking and sharing Jesus and what He did for them. My hairdresser was a drug addict and the gospel of Jesus change her life. I have been going to all kinds of hairdressers and I believe that two weeks ago God wanted me there.
The purpose of the bible is to introduce us to a living God who still talks and walks with people today. I trust that whatever theology we have or choose would lead us to faith in a living God who dwells in us. Personally I dont know what you call my theology but you need to trust God everyday. You need relationship! You must keep believing. Relationship with God is definitely a two way thing. God did His part to make a way for relationship.. you are invited ..jump on board ... trust and receive Jesus... trust that Jesus still wants to talk not only through pages in scripture but also through thoughts and dreams and signs and through creation. I have lots of personal testimonies.
God have warned and guided us through dreams at night, Through prophetic word. Start hanging out with childlike believers and you will hear great testimonies of things God is doing. God is still the same.. And the Word is still the same... the wise intellectuals miss out because they lack faith... great to know a lot about scripture and a lot about Jesus. Sometime tasting a little for yourself is better than studying a lot... study the Word and then ask God to taste what you study...
I thank God for seeing Him move... I probably needed it. I think if I only heard the gospel without seeing the power of the gospel I probably would not have believed. I meet people and see how the gospel transform people often. God is good!! Cant put God in a box
2 Peter 1 says His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us,
If you read more from verse 5 then it talks about adding to your faith, add virtue, knowledge, self control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly love
If you add these thing you will not be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of Jesus Christ,
2 Peter 1:9 for he who lacks these things is shortsighted , even to blindness and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins
:10 THEREFORE , BRETHREN BE EVEN MORE DILIGENT TO MAKE YOUR CALL AND ELECTION SURE, FOR IF YOU DO THESE THINGS YOU WILL NEVER STUMBLE
seems like we have responsibilities according to Peter.
The Bible does say we were individually elected and chosen
Biblical Questions Answered With Michael Woods no if doesn’t.
Biblical Questions Answered With Michael Woods election is a group. It's literally says those who are in Jesus. You're reading the notion of individual election into the text. Read the Bible, especially this chapter from the perspective of a Jew who's questioning whether God really extended salvation to the Gentiles which is what it was written for.
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years.
Tell them what you believe about God:
Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved.
We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you.
Take comfort knowing that we are not like God.
We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did.
So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God?
So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you.
Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases.
My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren?
I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not?
Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren?
TRUTH IN LOVE
33:00 and 33:31
49:40 and 50:15
51:30 and 52:17
I don't believe in ELECTION as the doctrine of salvation but it is only one of the blessings to those who are IN CHRIST to be like Christ as predetermined by God the Father.
Calvinism and Arminianism are human attempts to explain the unexplainable. God is absolutely sovereign in His election of who will be saved, and at the same time, humanity is completely responsible to receive the gift of salvation that God offers. How these two truths harmonize is incomprehensible to the finite human mind. But, in the infinite mind of God, the two truths do not contradict. As prideful humans, we do not like to admit that we do not fully understand something. So, instead of accepting our limitations and just trusting God, we develop complicated and detailed theological systems to try to make sense of it all.
God in his great wisdom knows how to choose his elect without forcing them and uses his Justice in all of thishe doesn't force people to get saved he basically response to what he knows will happen and he knew how he would respond before the foundation of the world thus elect according to the foreknowledge of God
Knowing future events does not equal cause. If I know that my neighbor is going to leave for work at 6 in the morning, that doesnt mean I caused it to happen. God has known in advance those that would be saved, but He did not cause them to choose that salvation. He has predestined us, not to salvation but to sanctification. All those who are in Christ are predetermined to be made into the likeness of Christ.
therefore we do not end up with a bad God but a loving God who wants all to be saved but knowing all will not be saved gave that provision and still will judge righteously
Biblical Questions Answered With Michael Woods so God doesn’t get what He wants?
God knows exactly how each person is going to respond to that gospel and sends it to them in a quart of what he knows aboutthose who respond to the gospel has a pre-designated path to Glory while those who remain in their fallenness will glorify God and judgment but it's not because God made them bad but because they kept themselves bad by not
Christianity: theism
Calvinism: pantheism
Arminian: deism
therefore the Free Will of man is in no way taken out of the picture in the election of God we are individually elect according to the foreknowledge of God according to the plan of God he knew that some would not be saved
Biblical Questions Answered With Michael Woods it doesn’t mean He determines it. Foreknowledge doesn’t equal foreordination. No, knowing something beforehand doesn’t mean you’ve unequivocally and meticulously determined it.
So rich.
Good explanation of the Calvinistic view of election. Question though at 20:53 from where does the idea come that there will be immoral people in Heaven when Paul refutes this very thing strongly in Eph. 5:5 "For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God." and other places like 1 Cor 6:9-10; Gal. 5:19-21?
Hey Dr Flowers I love your stuff, I wanted to see what your opinion on the “Beyond the Fundamentals” world view on Election knowing they have a similar opinion to Calvinism as you do
I don't agree with everything pst Kevin says but on his view on election, I have heard him over an over align with Leighton. He holds to the biblical understanding that election is to service individually.
@@ravissary79
All the best.
ravissary79 I agree too that Kevin’s abrasiveness, (even with someone who’s on the same theological side of election) makes me uncomfortable that as well as redundancy, but still I think a duo of Dr Flowers and Pastor Kevin would a interesting interaction like when Dr Flowers hand Pastor Mike Winger on (of Hosanna Christain Fellowship) ahh good stuff
As someone who adheres to Calvin's perspective on election I don't believe you are representing the view properly at all. I do believe you intend to. Prob be best to do a live conversation with someone understanding your intention but can properly represent the position in contrast to your statements.
Why "effectual salvation"? Is there an "ineffectual" kind?
Because the choosing is done in Christ the ballot is faith in Christbut the key that the Calvinists are missing is we are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God and foreknowledge does not mean Loved before it means known before
Why does one have to pay to subscribe to your channel? Is it Christian to charge for it. What is the money used for?
Nobody has to pay anything to subscribe to this channel. Many UA-cam podcasters create funding paths to help fund/contribute to their cause...though it is not necessary or required to contribute in order to watch the content.
Kids, always remember to let the advertisements run at least 11 sec so kindly old uncle Leighton gets the monetization credit -- in Jesus's Name.
20july1944 I did not know that; thanks for the tip.
Does he still get credit for UA-cam members who don’t have commercials?
@@apilkey I guess not, there's no way for you to see commercials -- but I'm not a YT power user.
South Park is filth.
@@BloodBoughtMinistries Thank you for your input, BM.
I would think that using a parable of Jesus' to prove a point comes from the highest authority and where as Paul's writings are inspired . It's not what Paul says...its what Jesus says.
Piper is so contradicting himself. I get a strange feeling in my guts. Non biblical
John Piper Quote: God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . .
That says it all about who Piper is. A NUT BAR Heretic
TRUTH IN LOVE
What piper is saying is that, he stumbled on a wreck ship in the ocean where people are drowning, and what he did is save all the people who knows how to swim and leave behind all the drowning people who don't know how to swim. In other words, jhon piper came to save the righteous while Jesus Christ came to save the sinners...and if you still don't understand Calvinism then...forget it....😃😂🤣
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years.
Tell them what you believe about God:
Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved.
We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you.
Take comfort knowing that we are not like God.
We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did.
So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God?
So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you.
Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases.
My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren?
I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not?
Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren?
TRUTH IN LOVE
@@truth7416 about your reply, what's that got to do with my comment??? 😆😂🤣
Leighton Flowers calvinism can be dismantled by simply reading Isaiah 42 where God speaking of the coming Messiah who will bring justice to the gentiles calls Him His elect Servant.
The rule of first mention mandates according to this verse Election= Service unless otherwise defined and in this case it must be redefined by God which never happens.
With that single verse calvinism is faced with three options
1 God cannot effectively and correctly communicate.
2 Christ is a created being that needed salvation and the Jews, Muslims and JW's are right.
3 calvinism is false.
All three cannot be true.
Piper has no answers. He deceives himself into thinking he is providing good answers. Most of the time I can't even follow what he is saying. Circular mumbo jumbo that is contradicting.
Very gnostic, huh?
Is John Mcarthur a Calvinist ?
Yes
John Piper Quote ( MacArthur as a Calviist would have to agree with this) God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . .
Isn't there a salvific nature to Paul's election? He went from unbelieving to believing and was called to serve as an Apostle.
Hi Kevin, I don't believe so. We must be careful not to think that any time God reveals himself to somebody that this is right relationship with him. Even if that revelation is extremely dramatic like it was in Paul's case. I am in the UK and it's common here for people who go away on the Alpha course weekend to experience the holy spirit. But this is not evidence that the person has already repented of sin. We know without a doubt from scripture that repentance precedes salvation - for example see the verse below:
Acts 3:19 ESV Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out,
God has sent his gospel out
Perseverance of the saints is true it says it in Romans chapterperseverance is given to the saint as a gift so that those who are justified we're also glorified and glorification is a future event so the elect being unconditional yes that's true but God chose according to for knowledge according to 1st Peter chapter 1 so since it was the foreknowledge of God by the means that God has chosen that leaves everyone everyone responsible in their choice to choose the gospel or choose hell
Responding to the gospel
Bezelt3 talked about non-elect infants recently. I’m done watching Bezelt3.
Sell that book! It’s good, accessible and full of grace! I got my copy last month!!
Can someone who is not a calvinist give me their understanding of Romans 8: 28-30
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Romans 8:28-30 NKJV
As far as the people God forknew, only 2 full chapters later in Romans 11:1-2, Paul says this "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?" So I would plug Israel into your Romans 8:28 passage and you will get a totally different interpretation from the Calvinists. So, I ask you, who is God's people? It's clearly stated twice. Romans 9 is also directed at Israel, unbelieving Israel. Ever notice the Patriarchs are all listed here? Examples of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and also Moses. Think this is a coincidence, think again.
God acts in synchrony with his nature , not arbitrarily, thats why calvinists are wrong , the wicked resist grace , because god everytime call everyone to regret.
Hi, what about the fourth view... the corporate election to service, e.g. the Israelites and gentiles.
Jesus had many believers...He chose out of them, fisherman... to confound the wise.
1 Corinthians 1:27
“But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;”
Jesus chose the young rich but he denies !
All the great theologians in history held an Augustinian view of the role of God's grace and gifts in salvation, including Calvin...is Romans 8:28-29 so hard to grasp..? Individual Election to Effectual Salvation...
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years.
Tell them what you believe about God:
Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved.
We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you.
Take comfort knowing that we are not like God.
We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did.
So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God?
So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you.
Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases.
My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren?
I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not?
Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren?
TRUTH IN LOVE
Mr, Flowers is spilling more goo!
I think the word you were looking for is 'good' not 'goo'. Mr Flowers is spreading good teaching to free people from the goo of Calvinism that sticks up people's minds and makes people confuse faith with works of the law when the Bible clearly contrasts them as opposites.
I must say I love Dr Flowers ministry. But since I got on this site I have been told I’m the non elect and going to hell (which I don’t believe as the old song goes “it is well with my soul); I am stupid, dump, uneducated, belittled. I work in a psychiatric setting so I am used to negative communication but by the mentally ill. Maybe I walked into an intellectually elite forum. I suspect but I have no proof that heaven will have more farmers, stay at home moms, average joe’s than the highly philosophical intellectual elite. I don’t think the Bible was written for theologians and intellectual elite only but mainly for the common person.
You need to discern who's saying what. There are many calvinists here; you have to read carefully what they write.
Brother I feel like you're going a little bit too deep and trying to disprove
I have gone to a Reformed church for over 4 years now. I love the way the gospel is preached and i love the people there. I am having more and more problems with calvinism the more i learn about it. I am not sure what to do.
David Donicht I’m in the same boat, somewhat. It’s a tough call. The reformed church that we attend occasionally doesn’t push Calvinism explicitly (I doubt they even understand reformed theology, though they affirm it out of tradition); instead they focus on loving others and sharing the gospel.
When my mind gets critical about the preaching I get frustrated by the wishy-washyness (sometimes undertones of Calvinism, sometimes word of faith, sometimes charismatic,.....no real exegetical substance).
When and if I can turn my theological brain off I really enjoy the passion for Jesus and desire to have meaningful impact in the community.
My biggest problem is learning to turn my brain off and just enjoying fellowship.
@@jaygee2187 Thanks. When i was saved i didn't know anything about Reformed theology. The more i know the more i want to distance myself from it. It is quite depressing actually.
David Donicht it’s incredibly depressing. I grew up reformed and spent my teens and twenties in severe, sometimes suicidal depression and anxiety. Guilt convicted me to attend church and panic attacks beset me when I went.
Long story shot, I know I am saved because God loves all, desires all to be saved, and Jesus died for all.
@@jaygee2187 amen! You belong to Jesus!
@@jaygee2187 I know I'm saved, because I believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I believe Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, was crucified and rose again as atonement for all, and all means all. God only asks that we have skin in the game, and believe In His Son.
Brother lighting I submit to you that there is an unconditional election of the saintsbut it is according to the foreknowledge of God when he decided to be incarnated in the Son and died for the sins of the World
Biblical Questions Answered With Michael Woods no there isn’t.
That question exposes Johnny Piper and when he cannot answer it he makes statements which are so ridiculous and unbiblical. he said then we "assume" that person who dies without hearing the gospel not elect?. I thought he believed that God elected certain individuals from the foundation of the world? Is God elects a person from the foundation of the world or when he hears and believe the gospel? Therefore his statements are based on assumptions :-) LOL. He could have been saved his reputation by not answering this kind of questions.
When your children or grandchildren are old enough to be taught about God, I challenge you and your spouse to tell them the terrible truths of Calvinism and then watch their spiritual progress over the ensuing years.
Tell them what you believe about God:
Little Johnny, God has predestined the minority of people to be saved and go to heaven forever, and He has predestined the majority of people to be eternally damned and burn in the fires of hell. We have no idea, little Johnny, if God has predestined you to be forever damned or forever saved.
We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you.
Take comfort knowing that we are not like God.
We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did.
So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God?
So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you.
Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases.
My dear beloved Calvinist, will you teach that to your children or grandchildren?
I suspect that your answer will be “never.” But why not?
Why would you ever hide the wonderful “doctrines of grace,” the “Bible truth,” from your own children or grandchildren?
TRUTH IN LOVE
22:10