As someone who has been free from the chains of Calvinism I hated all the confusion and felt God was just some mystical being you can't understand. Once freed, starting with the biblical truth that Christ came to take away the sins of the whole world I was then reminded that God is light and there is no darkness in Him at all. He is not the gnostic God that Calvinism preaches, mysterious and only saved by "receiving transcendent knowledge (regeneration and faith) of Sophia's (Holy Spirit) Divine Spark within the soul." Read Gnosticism and you will see so many parallels.
Remember Job? All that he experienced, the suffering, his losses, his accusers (friends), and when he questioned God, God did not give Job the answers to this question, why? Instead, God gave Job examples of His sovereignty. From Job’s position and perspective, it was a mystery, meaning he couldn’t make any sense of why his God allowed it all. Do mysteries exist? Do we fully understand the depths of God? “So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.” 1 Corinthians 2
@@robertmichaels2914from the hindsight of Job, it is no more a mystery but it is for the glory of God that we suffer in righteousness. So Christians should be clueless why they suffer. 1 Peter:8-22. The mystery of that Calvinists refer to is why God predestined others to be saved and also not others is unscriptural. When they can't explain this concept, the easy way out to answer is 'mystery'. The 'mystery' in Ephesians 3 is God's goodness to ALL.
Then, you don't fully understand what Calvinism teaches because Leighton Flowers is speaking on Hyper-Calvinism. His hypocrisy is quite obviously clear to the objective listener.
Same, calvinism grieved my spirit. Then when i found sites like yours and books by Troy J. Edwards it set me free from this understanding of God that to me never seemed just and brought me to the realization of gow great, merciful, and loving my God is.
I am so grateful for this ministry!!! My heart is filled with awe for God everytime you teach about His nature. May bless you and expand this ministry. It is truly a breath of fresh air in such a hostile time. The truth is being attacked from outside and within and many people are scared to admit that they are struggling inwardly. Everytime I watch one these videos, my hope in God is renewed but I am also challenged; He has trusted me with free-will and He is a just Judge. I am challenged to consider how I treat those He has created; if He respects their freewill, so should I.
Mo Jo so God does sometimes interfere in the free will of man? You’ve just established free will. Even in spite of your best efforts to deny free will, you STILL unwittingly affirm it! Have you ever heard the expression ‘better to remain silent and thought a fool then to speak and remove all doubt’? Yeah, well you’ve removed all doubt. 🙃🤪🤣
Amen. Well said. God bless you as you expose the diabolical doctrine of Calvinism and promote the good news that God is not willing for any to perish, but wishes for all to be saved. Thank you.
I am grateful for this too, but I really need prayer. I’ve never been in a position like this before. I’ve been a Calvinist for 17 years and I totally have had my eyes opened, but I am still so confused. I feel like I’m re-learning everything, wondering what I still believe because it was right, don’t believe anymore, I feel like I’m in the twilight zone!! All I hear out of everyone’s mouth is the word “sovereignty” all the time! How did I not notice before? It’s all my friends, church family, small group, pastors say. And yes, i know and believe god is sovereign, but my definition has changed. This video was very helpful...I feel discouraged about it tonight. Other days I’m excited and want to yell it from the mountain top. I wish I had someone to talk to like a pastor. I am totally submerged in Calvinism. I loooove my pastors and church, just don’t want to talk to them about it. At least not yet...it’ll just make me feel more alone. I need to feel like I’m not alone.
Alana L wow! Crazy to see you here in the comments! I’ve been watching your UA-cam for about a year now and have been so encouraged by you! I waned to share with you that I’ve been a hard determinist Calvinist for over a year now and just recently my husband is starting to be convinced otherwise... I’m not seeing it yet though... I’m honestly kind of scared to believe anything else because I was in a false charismatic church before coming to know the reformed faith ... and our experience was so crazy and supernatural .. it feels as if my salvation is wrapped up in knowing the exact correct theology and it’s so stressful for me! Anyways, I wanted to say that when you posted your video about not being a Calvinist I was kind of disappointed but continued to watch you because I just love your content and your personality ... but now I’m starting to see things from the other perspective.. so just an encouragement that you’re not alone! I think my husband is at the point where he isn’t calling himself a Calvinist anymore and even though I’m having a really hard time seeing it I’m searching he scriptures and praying earnestly for truth... also your videos about being a submissive wife help me tremendously... especially in times of hard disagreements like this,I know that I can still be obedient to Gods word by submitting to my husbands leadership. Anyways, just wanted to say Hi and thank you for encouraging this young wife and mama :)
Jessica Rhodes oh how awesome:) yes...after 17 years I’m free!!! I will pray for you! Theology is man made. We can hold it loosely. Scripture is everything.
Thank you for your prayers Alana! I think I’m starting to see it... it’s so hard to let go of Calvinism though.. it feels like my salvation is wrapped up in it. Was it hard for you to let go?
Jessica Rhodes I think that’s an indicator that we are taught to make the theology above the gospel...it’s a shame. I u see stand. It wasn’t hard to let go for me...I think it’s so obvious in scripture that Jesus loves his creation and died for anyone who believes, that’s how powerful the gospel is...will keep praying for you and willing to talk anytime:)
Thanks girl! My husband and I are reading a book right now called “the faith of the elect” and I’m also learning a little about the roots of Calvinism and it’s quite intriguing how closely it lines up with ancient philosophy. I would love to talk more about it.. my husband has recently completely rejected Calvinism and so I’m doing my best to read the scriptures and listen to him. Would love to talk more about it with you... I’m encouraged by you!
Wow thank you!! I have been waiting for you to post on this key word that is so misunderstood and mistaught among Christians today. I have been so grieved by this teaching for so long but so thankful for this correction on what God's Sovereignty truly vs our free will. May all praise go to God for how He exercises His sovereignty in such a beautiful way in which He is so powerful that He gives us the ability to choose for ourselves and be responsible for our actions even as He works to influence us for good all the time.
I enjoyed this presentation the most of all your other works I have seen. Your arguments were well presented and illustrated, making it very easy for me to understand the point you were stating. Great work, I wish you will do more of these in your other presentations. God bless you.
Nah…personalize it to THEM. John Piper’s house burns down. He meets with the insurance adjuster, and is surprised that she is a member of his congregation. They walk through the ruins of his house, and she verifies it was a true accident. She gets in her car, turns to her pastor, and says “We are not paying your claim.” “WHY NOT?” Piper cries out. She starts her car, grins at him, and yells out “ACT OF GOD!’ As she backs out of the driveway.
Thank you Dr Flowers for another excellent, coherent explanation of the logical inconsistencies of Calvinism. Your presentations are clear and challenging, but made in a caring, non-threatening manner, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who appreciates this. I particularly value the fact that in making your arguments you quote directly from both Calvin and leading contemporary Calvinists. It is good to know there is an alternative way of interpreting scripture in regards to God's sovereignty and His plan of salvation that makes sense and is founded on Biblical doctrine. With love and thanks from Cornwall, UK.
I’ve been very confused and discouraged. This has really helped me see how stupid Calvinism is. I’m sorry but it truly is crazy, I think I can confidently say that now.
Calvinism strikes me as Stoicism in Christian rags. I think I detect that in Calvin and perhaps it stemmed from his university work on Stoicism. It would be an interesting study.
@@dagwould The Stoic aspects of Calvinism could have come from Calvin's university work, as you suggested. Another possibility is that Calvin got it from the writings of his favorite theologian, Augustine of Hippo. Augustine was a Manichean for ten years before converting to Christianity. During his dispute with Pelagius, Augustine re-embraced some aspects of his old Manichean beliefs, which were an amalgamation of Stoicism, Gnosticism and Zoroastrianism. Of course it might have come from both...
Wonderful video, I thank the Lord for this ministry! I was under Calvinism for more than a decade, this channel was used by our Lord to undo much of the flawed beliefs of our Lord's character through a Calvinist view of His nature. Love >sovereignty. I continue to be so blessed and healed through the teachings that come out through this ministry, thankyou Dr Flowers and all who are involved for all you are doing it has made such a difference to me and my family (as I'm teaching it to my 5 children, so it's affecting the next generation too) Shalom and blessings Rob and family 🇦🇺
Did God not command us to love Him and our neighbor (Great commandment)? Of course He did. And considering authentic love is only demonstrated through freedom of choice, there must be free will. Otherwise God would be a liar, and we know that God is not a man that He should lie (Numbers 23:19).
I like how you're always pointing to little nuggets like in the Lord's prayer to show that we indeed have free will which may go against the will and desire of the Lord. Bless you brother Flowers 😇
@@matt_h_27 Obviously talking about human will and desires in contrast to YHWH's. Humans "getting their own way" doesn't thwart the sovereignty of the LORD - those two are not mutually exclusive, i.e. the story of Joseph and his brothers. *What Leighton ultimately teaches is that God is not actively sovereign in the salvation of individuals. God is passive in salvation, according to him.* Can't say I've ever heard Leighton say this, especially since Leighton's view is that God is the only one who can ever offer salvation - that's the distinction: God offers it, will we choose it? Just because one denies the Lord Jesus, does not mean the sovereignty of God has been silenced there, how could it? *Problem: if God is not actively in control of that area but yet knows the outcome (who will come to Him and who will not), then does God really need to “draw” those whom He already knows will reject Him? What would be the point?* His knowing the outcome IS him actively in control. Even if the LORD draws those will ultimately reject him, he would do it so they are with out *_any_* excuse. *If He is both omnipotent and omniscient, then whatever happens is under His meticulous control.* This statement presupposes Calvianism, can't do that. I believe scripture is as Leighton says, the LORD has decreed that humanity have free will. If not, God would not have given the command to not eat from the tree, much less toss them out of the garden because the violated the command he gave. *Yes, sovereign means meticulous control.* Methinks you're mistaken as even the English dictionary doesn't narrow the definition to that degree nor do I believe the "meticulous" modifier can be found in scripture. To know all does not equate to cause/determine all, you get that right? You seem to agree when you say nothing happens without his knowledge. *Yes, sovereign means meticulous control.... This does not mean He forces evil to transpire .."* According to "high" Calvinism, God does do this. He MUST do so because he has absolute meticulous control. *There are no accidents or surprises in His creation.* This is understood and Leighton doesn't ever say this nor does any bible student, I would dare say. *And when He says He’s going to do something, He will.* John 3:16 clique, I know but the scripture is telling us *_whomsoever_* believes. This is a willful action on the part of the human.
EXCELLENT VIDEO! And dang near quoted what I always tell a believer confused about Calvanisms view of sovereignty...God is IN control. He is not ALL CONTROLLING.
@@robertmichaels2914 mainly in the affairs of man and the final outcome of the human race He created in His image, GOD IS IN CONTROL. His plan of salvation will succeed because of His ultimate power and authority that no man or devil can thwart…. He is Sovereign. His word never fails, His law is perfect and cannot be undone, He has the final judgement, etc. However, under the umbrella of God’s sovereignty He has given mankind free will and dominion over the earth and its creatures. We were created to partner with God to multiply, subdue the earth, and carry+release God’s glory wherever we go. As you can see some people submit to God’s leadership and some do not. Some obey, some rebel. Some walk in pride, some in humility. Etc. - God does not “control” man in this arena as Calvanistic thought presumes. This isn’t a puppet show and everyone just moves as God pulls strings. The Holy Spirit influences in many ways but men have the response-ability to respond accordingly. Hence, God is not ALL CONTROLLING. But He is however IN CONTROL.
Leighton thank you for the video. Can you point me to where the quote is located on the Desiring God website. I would like to be able to quote it. Thanks for all that you are doing.
EXACTELY! i don't know why it is so hard to realize that God controls His attributes...just like we can control our emotions and that our emotions ultimately do not reign over us and make my decisions for me. God Himself is sovereign over His sovereignty. i just cant understand how Him giving me the ability to make decisions lessons His sovereignty.
"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it" "The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will"
@The CCC you are not alone! Many people are struggling. Lets continue to dig into the scriptures on our own as Dr. Leighton encourages people. He is willing to reveal Himself to those seek Him diligently
Thank you for this ministry Dr Flowers. I believe what you are communicating are consistent to biblical data and reality concerning God's character and way of salvation. Glory to God!
The "chess" analogy is perfect. Which is a more beautiful picture of sovereignty? A God who has to control the chess board, or a God who gives the other player full libertarian free will while still bringing about His own purposes? The answer is obvious to me.
When talking about sovereignty in the ages the Bible was written, they were meaning a more system you obey the king, lord, prince over the land and swear to them a form of vassal master them. Meaning we obey His laws willingly and staying on the lawful side of the realm.
Thank you so much for your channel. We recently joined a church, and while we love this church and people, they are all Calvinist who studied under John McArthur. One thing that stood out to me in this video is that even Satan doesn’t believe in Determinism/Soveringty like Calvinist do. Look at the book of Job. Satan tells God that if God took away everything Job has, then Job would curse God. That obviously implies Job had freedom. Otherwise Satan would have known that God would always keep Job from cursing him. Especially if God was controlling every thought and action of Job. There would be no point in testing Job under determinism. Job wouldn’t be the one cursing God, or not cursing God. It would be God causing Job to act however he wanted. If Satan believed God was controlling every thought and action of Job (I.e Determinism) what would be the point in testing Job? Satan would obviously see there is no outcome in where he could get Job to do anything other than what God was going to make Job do.
It's much simpler to say that Calvinists merely project their own personality traits onto God. I've said elsewhere, that while I was a practicing Buddhist and before I accepted the Lord's call earnestly, I knew many many Buddhist Calvinists. They treated Buddhist scripture exactly as Calvinists do with Christianity. They form their arguments identically. They treat their opponents and detractors the same. Calvinism is less theological doctrine and by far more a personality type. Fortunately, it is one that can be shed once we surrender our own will and accept God's in it's place.
Piper’s explanation of evil requires him to understand God as ESSENTIALLY evil. Evil must be one of his attributes...I must have slept through that part of systematic theology during seminary
No it doesn't, if God decrees the fall it can simply mean that he allowed men to have a single choice, the fall was just man making a single choice, but God putting the tree and allowing the serpent should let you know that God knew and planned what was happened.
Tim lamb there is no room for ‘allowed, allowing, allow, allows, allowance’ in the divine decree. The decree is universal, eternal, unconditional and efficacious - nothing is left to simply be ‘allowed’. It is caused by God or it does not happen - THIS is Calvinism.
timffoster again, neither ‘allow’ nor ‘permission’ contextually fit the divine decree. According to Calvinism, God did not simply ‘allow’ Satan into the garden, He created Satan and so directed Him that even the pride that was found within Satan was placed there by God. God meticulously controlled Satan to enter the garden, deceive Eve, and then God caused Eve to be deceived, and the caused Adam to follow, etc. There is no stray atoms in Calvinism, everything is meticulously controlled 100% and moves only and exactly as God deems.
@@jaygee2187 ah, you realize there are three types of classical Calvinist thought, most modern Calvinist are compatabalist, you are misinformed. I think you are referring to superlapsarian views.
Besides our common sense intuition of the concepts of free will and justice, verses like this pretty soundly refute the Calvinistic interpretation of sovereignty: “They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.”
Hello. I am just wondering if y’all can give me your “personal” definitions of what sovereignty is as an attribute of God. And is he in total control, or partially sovereign? Is his sovereignty dependent on our free-will, and so on. I am interested in your thoughts.
@@courtneycrusenberry6238 Is John Piper a true Calvinist? Did you hear him starting at 3:08? He definitely says God controls everything that comes to pass, including our choices.
@@courtneycrusenberry6238 I think you know its not that simple. Paul tells us to work out our salvation, but then says its God working in us both to will and to do...So I agree with you sort of, but those on the reformed side do believe God is guiding our path and yet we are still responsible. Its the "antinomy" Piper mentions in the video clip above.
Mcgragor I agree. But it’s a misrepresentation to claim that all Calvinists believe that God controls us like we’re robots. We’re not robots and we’re not puppets. I don’t claim to understand the ins and outs of it all, but I know it’s not that.
Can Dr Flowers or anyone help me answer this question about provisionism: if Dr Flowers believes in Molinism, which is a form of predestination in which God doesn't act on the will, but creates the circumstances in which he foresees we will act favorably to the gospel, then how can you say that God loves everyone EQUALLY? I mean, if through previnient grace I am in better circumstances to accept the gospel that someone that lives, for instance, deep in the jungles of the Amazon, doesn't that mean that God loves me more?. My point is that I fully agree that hard-determinism is false theology, but if you are in the Molinist camp (like Dr Flowers is) then he is hard pressed to accept that God offers better means of salvation to some even though they have to make a choice to make that grace become efficacious (this is what Luis de Molina taught). In the final analysis, the question of predestination is not if God does it or not because even in Molinism he does, but rather if he moves the will or not.
HDM -- I think we need to stop claiming to believe in theologies and just believe God's word. I don't care about terms like "Molinism." I care about the truth. You are arguing on the basis of theology, not based on Scripture. The Bible tells us what is true. That should be enough. But Calvinists, Arminians, Provisionists, etc., are trying to understand HOW and WHY that truth is true. That isn't our concern, and we cannot possibly know unless God has revealed it to us in His word. You are also making assumptions that aren't founded on Scripture. Where does the Bible say that God loves all men equally? I'm not sure you understand what "love" means in the Bible. Love isn't a feeling; love is how you choose to treat someone. God loves all people. Everything they have is something they have received -- even their very lives. God loves all people. He gave His Son to die for all people. God loves all people. He has offered salvation to all people. God loves all people. He has given people the choice. I think you are confusing the human term "fairness" in your thinking. You think that it isn't "fair" that some people get a better witness, or better opportunities, or more opportunities, to believe. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what "fair" means. The best illustration I can give is sports. If two football teams play fair, one teams wins and one team loses. Fairness isn't about an equal outcome. Fairness isn't even having an equal opportunity. If the New England Patriots play fair against any high school football team, they will win every game. What makes the game fair isn't the opportunity or the outcome. What makes the game fair is that everyone plays by the same rules. God does this, too. The rule for salvation is the same for everyone: believe. If we believe, then God will save us. God was under no obligation to save anyone. That He chose to save anyone is an expression of His mercy and grace. So God cannot be unfair not to offer everyone the exact same opportunities. God isn't even responsible for spreading the gospel message; He has made US responsible for doing that. If people die never hearing about Jesus, then that is the fault of the church, not the fault of God. People get wrapped around the axle trying to understand a single word like "predestination" and allow the debate to color every aspect of their faith. That is a terrible way to approach Scripture. Rather than simply believing what the Bible says about predestination, they demand to know HOW it works and WHY God does it that way. Not our problem. I am confident that there are good answers about foreknowledge, predestination, and election, to be found in the Bible. (I'm pretty sure I know them.) But if we are asking because we demand answers from God, rather than obedience to God, then we aren't ready for the question let alone the answer.
HDM -- I see that you deleted your reply to me, but I think it is important that I answer anyway. First, I reject the claims that there are 40,000 denominations. That is a number thrown out by people trying to undermine Christianity, as if Christianity is only true if everyone understands all of it and lives it out in precisely the same way. Rubbish. There are far fewer denominations. And you make the mistake of thinking that differences in denominations are all about differences in theology. They are not. Denominations are defined by their membership and association, not by their theology. Many denominations share common theology, but they do have different styles of worship, styles of music, order of worship, and practices. That is, they have a difference of implementation, not doctrine. It is true that churches within a denomination usually share the same doctrine, but not always. It is about association. There are not 40,000 distinct sets of doctrine. Another thing you misunderstand is what separates the doctrines of one denomination from another. It isn't about what they believe that is true -- it is about what they DON'T believe that is true. Every theological system I've seen rejects Scripture -- but they reject different parts of it. Just because theology is "derived from Scripture" doesn't make it true, any more than a movie "based on a true story" is accurate. Let's use your example that some believe that God wants all to be saved and some believe God doesn't. What does the Bible say? "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” (Acts 17:30-31) " 'And I, if I am [e]lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.' This He said, signifying by what death He would die." (John 12:32) It is clear from Scripture that God DOES want all men to repent and be saved. Calvinists don't accept this because they reject Scripture. The Bible NEVER says that God wants people to perish. On the contrary, it says that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Another thing theologians do, aside from rejecting passages of Scripture they don't like, is to invent doctrines not found in God's word. Taking your example, there is ABSOLUTELY NO Scripture that says that God loves everyone equally. Who cares is Aquinas rejects that teaching? Rejecting it should be the default position for all believers because it is an unfounded claim. Protestant reformers taught "Total Depravity" which is not found anywhere in Scripture, and they must take verses out of context and stitch them together -- then squint really hard at the result -- to believe it. But they certainly teach it. But I find that one of the biggest obstacles people have in understanding Scripture is that they don't know what the WORDS mean that they are throwing around. Let's use your example of "justification." You say that some believe in justification by faith alone, and some believe in justification by faith and works. What do you think "justification" means? When do you think justification occurs? There is a sequence of events in the life of a believer: belief, salvation, justification, and glorification. When we believe, God forgives us our sins, cleanses us of all unrighteousness, and seals us by the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our inheritance. That is salvation. We are saved by faith alone. Justification is a declaration. We are called righteous AFTER we are made righteous. But that is only justification before God. There is also justification before men. Our Christian walk did not end with salvation, it began. "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10) The good works we do AFTER salvation, in gratitude and worship of God, are our testimony to the world. These words and deeds are our justification before men. That is why James said that faith without works is dead. We ARE justified by works (not saved by works), but not toward God. A life without evidence of salvation is dead -- it produces nothing. To clarify justification, think about what we call "justifiable homicide." A person who takes a life in self defense justifies himself before the judge by offering his testimony. The judge then declares the person justified. The judge isn't saying that the killing was okay, he is saying that the person is okay DESPITE the killing. Likewise, the life we live is a testimony that we will give before God at the judgment when He will finally make our justification official. We won't be accounting for sin at the judgment; we will be offering our testimony. Jesus already took care of our sin. In the meantime, our Christian walk is our testimony to others as part of our witness. What is foreknowledge" Knowledge beforehand. What knowledge? Before what? The Bible says that God foreknew Jesus before the foundation of the world. It says that Jesus was chosen before the foundation of the world. It DOESN"T says that we were foreknown before the foundation of the world. People read the "before the foundation of the world" into every place the word "foreknew" is used when that isn't supported by Scripture. What is predestination? Determining a destination beforehand. What destiny? Before what? Jesus was always destined to be king over people of faith -- whoever that might be. We were not chosen before the foundation of the world -- we were chosen by proxy by God choosing Jesus. That is what "chosen in Him" means. We could not have been chosen in Him before we were saved because we were NOT in Him until we were saved. The predestination Paul talks about in Romans and Ephesians is telling Gentile believers that God's plan all along was not just to saved Israel, but to save the whole world -- including them. The Jews should have understood this since God promised Abraham that all the families of the earth would be blessed through him, but they didn't believe that part of Scripture. No theology is better than the Scripture it is based upon. God is an excellent communicator. He doesn't need flawed human beings to "clarify" what He meant. Believers have the indwelling Holy Spirit to help them. Don't you think that He is capable of guiding our understanding? What theology does is gives us false teachings that gets in the way of understanding. What theology does is tell us what parts of Scripture to ignore. The trouble Christians have today is that the only way to understand Scripture is to unlearn all the lies they've been told that cause our confusion. We do not need a "framework" to believe the Bible. All we need is to believe the Bible. All of it.
Enon Knives I really enjoyed reading this post, particularly your description of justification. If I may share a little regarding our justification before God; believing in Jesus does not place us in a position of being justified simply because we have faith, but believing in Jesus places us IN Jesus, and Jesus was justified before God because of His perfect faith lived out, living not by His own will, but by the Fathers will. Our justification is found in the faith OF Christ. Likewise, our glorification is also found IN Christ. Jesus was glorified as One having earned it. After His ascension the Holy Spirit could descend with the justified, glorified life that Christ obtained, and the Holy Spirit gives that life, that Spiritually justified and glorified life to believers, placing them in Christ.
Enon Knives Even though you dispute the number of denominations I see that in essence you agree with me when you say “there are fewer than that”. So. Ok, let’s say that there are 3,000 denominations that differ in one or another matter of faith or morals. How does that materially change the nature of the the question I posed to you?. They are all Bible believing Christian denominations, they all believe that the holy spirit indwells them and yet differ in essential aspects of the faith. You for example accuse Calvinist of misusing scripture regarding total depravity but I am pretty sure they will raise the same accusations against your assertions. And they will use the same bible and probably some sort of sophisticated greek and hebrew lexicons or scholarly sources to prove their point. And then we are faced with the words of the Apostle Peter that said that the letters of the Apostle Paul are not only difficult to understand but also can be heavily distorted by the untaught and unstable and bring their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16). Who is the untaught and unstable that Peter is talking about? And how can I know that you are not one them? Jesus said that truth will set us free, but if one of these 3,000 or so Churches has the fullness of truth then it means that 2,999 are teaching some form of error (i.e, heresy). And if you reply that most of them agree on the fundamentals my question is what are the fundamentals? and who has the authority to define them? I assume that you believe that your views and your interpretation are correct. But, why should I trust your exegesis? Why should I believe your interpretation of what the “words” mean? And by the way, where does the bible say that we should ONLY focus on what the words mean? For instance, the Church Fathers didn’t put much weight on lexicography but rather used typology to understand the deep meaning of the bible. In other words, what makes your method of bible interpretation better than, for instance, that of the apostolic Fathers? How can you, 2,000 years later and many generations away from Jesus, have a better way of interpreting the text than those who received not only the written word but also the spoken tradition in how to interpret it (2 Thessalonians 2:15)? I agree with some of your points and disagree with others based on my understanding of the bible but unless you are infallible how can you know that your interpretation is better than mine? We can spend hundreds of posts here arguing about what justification means based on the bible only to find at the end that we just don’t agree on what we believe Paul is teaching. In other words, your approach to scripture doesn’t solve the problem, just exacerbates it. More than happy to discuss each and every topic that you poise, but first I’d like to hear your thoughts about these simple questions. And don’t tell me that this is a matter of just of following the Holy Spirit, not only because you cannot know at what degree the Spirit is working in me in comparison to you, but also because as I mentioned almost any sincere Christian claims that the Spirit is working through him and yet comes to very different conclusions after reading Scripture. Lastly, I haven’t deleted my reply. It has always been there
God is not "conflicted" and He is not "confused"...Free will does solve the "problem", every Calvinist claims that it is a "mystery"? There is a huge difference in "sovereignty of God and "determinism"... God is indeed Sovereign.
Calvinism is just a complete blasphemy of God's character. I wonder what Calvinists will answer to God when the people who made shipwreck of their faith because they believed that God "predestined them not to Heaven but to Hell" all because they were brainwashed by a system rather than being shown that they can freely come and humble themselves, repent and submit to God and see that Jesus Christ's death was sufficient for all; even them, if they only chose to believe and live for Him rather than believe a system of lies that separates people from God is who Holy and Gracious.
I asked this question to a Calvinist friend, and he said he didn’t care: as long as HE HIMSELF was saved, he didn’t have to worry about anybody else’s because, as a Calvinist, he was convinced salvation was God’s business ENTIRELY. I walked away, thinking that was the purest distillation of selfishness, and was a bit taken aback that it came out of the mouth of a Christian.
The Calvinist definition of the "sovereignty of God" has become a Calvinist code word for "you have no free will." "Sovereignty" in the minds of many Calvinists means the arbitrary dealings of God with man.
@@timffoster John Calvin contradicts himself big time. He may say that man has free will, but then he turns around and supports the lie that God "predestined" many for hell and only a few for heaven. To embrace Augustinian double "predestination" is to deny that man has free will. I mean after all, if God "predestined" millions for hell way before they were ever born, then that would mean that they have no free will in regards to their eternal destiny. Man, therefore becomes a predestined puppet with no free will.
How will these people approach a totally loving righteous God on judgement day and confess pushing this garbage on humanity ? It really doesn't get much worse than this... Blaspheming God and his word...
@Soteriology101 Hey, great video. I have recently been pondering the sovereignty of God. This video explains fairly well why we have free will in a general sense, but could you explain or make a vid explaining how His sovereignty impacts salvation. Like, having faith and responding to the Gospel... is that soverngly decreed before it even happens, or is it free will. In my view, the first option is better supported through scripture. But I'd love to know your take on it... thanks for reading
Hello there. Here is an exercise for you. Ephesians 1-2:10. Read both chapters up to verse 10 of chapter 2. This is a classic passage about Soteriology. Maybe read it a few times to get context. With pen in hand, list all the blessings (1:3) of God through the entire passage, all that he has done for his people, you. Also look for his motives and purposes for doing it all. And look for the word “will” too When you finished, and have exhausted all things about God, and all he’s done for you, then move on to the matter of man. Describe man in chapter, all the things. And what did God do for you in Chapter two? What attributes of God do you see in these chapters. When it comes to this passage, which is about salvation, what conclusions will you come to regarding God’s sovereignty in this passage. Hope this helps. God bless
God is omniscient and omnipotent, he knows all possible outcomes of all decisions, and he interacts miraculously with the universe in a number of different ways to bring about his purposes. In this way he has a firm grasp on all that will happen, but he does it by merely pulling strings here and there. That's my viewpoint at least. Take it with a grain of salt.
I agree that Piper is wrong, but we should criticize him properly. I think the reason people don't understand the Bible is because they don't believe what it says. Like Piper. We don't believe what we understand; we understand what we believe. When people ask how to understand Scripture, I always say to read it assuming that it is true -- just like you would read any work of non-fiction.
I've been in turmoil and agony of mind for 40 years because of Calvinism. Never believing that I was one of the Elect, and that God didn't love me because I wasn't one of them. Please could you do a video on the verse "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated". My apologies if you already have, as I just haven't come across it yet.
Sorry to hear! I remember struggling with this and wrestling with God and I found that this is a preferential love spoke about and seen in that God had allowed the lineage of the Messiah to go through Jacob and their is a pattern of God loving the lowly, weak, broken things confounding the wisdom of the world. Shouldn’t God love Esau more? The world would prefer the strength of men, the skill, the wisdom the pride. It’s the same idea of hating our family in preference to loving Jesus more. So the hatred is not the same we try to place on it. I could be off on it but that helped me alot. I see in the story always a chance for Esau to repent and God dealing with his hard heart throughout his life and when he weeps with Jacob I wonder if he got it.
"De-Calvanized" I LOVE it. God IS in ultimate control of the bigger picture of events, otherwise how could anything He prophesied ever come to pass? But as this video teaches, God NEVER violates anyone's free will - He is NOT in control of a person's will. So how can God be in "ultimate" control of bringing His word to pass if He cannot control man? Answer; GOD IS A MASTER CHESS PLAYER. He already knows how every person will choose given a certain set of circumstances, so He is able to maneuver the circumstances of choice to get the desired outcome of how things will ultimately play out in a circumstance in every day life or such as the end of this age (Matthew 13) without ever violating a person's free will. Think of it in terms of computer science-binary language "if then else" possibilities and probabilities. If it's a 1 then you're presented with another choice between another 1 and a 0, then another set and subset of choices versus if it's a 0 which is a different set and subset of choices on into ad infinitum; e.g. God already knew Pharaoh's heart and how he would react to every last choice of a "1" or a "0" in his interactions with Moses and with the plagues. So God maneuvered such so that His glory would be seen in Pharaoh (Exodus 9) by Pharaoh's bad choices - but Pharaoh could never blame God for such because they were Pharaoh's choices not God's. God didn't tempt Pharaoh to sin - on the contrary God revealed His power to Pharaoh so Pharaoh wouldn't resist Him but God also knew how Pharaoh would choose. It's not God's fault if Pharaoh was too stupid in his arrogance to see it. What this comes down to is that God IS the ultimate Judge because He is Omniscient knowing all things and how to balance out the equation so that He 1) didn't violate Pharaoh's will 2) didn't tempt Pharaoh to do evil 3) knowing how Pharaoh would react ended up being glorified in Pharaoh anyway. WOW. The key factor in this is GRACE. If you choose GRACE and receive Christ, you've made the FIRST BEST choice in a binary situation. Afterward, the more GRACE choices you make, the more aligned you become with God's will but because you have made the initial GRACE choice to trust in Christ for salvation, God has more to work with to get you more aligned. This the equation is PERFECTLY balanced because while we are deeply flawed in our flesh God is PERFECT.
Eph 1:11-In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.
followed up with Eph 1:12 TO THE END that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. Who were the first to hope in Christ?
@@mcgragor1 yes he works all things, he doesn’t CAUSE all things. It just means that God will work to bring good out of the evil of man, it by. I means he causes all things.
@@bigdogboos1 That's not what the verse says. It mentions nothing about man's evil and yes it doesn't say "cause", but it doesn't need to. ALL things means all things. With that said, I am not a strict Calvinist as I don't know how our responsibility and His Providence meet, but I am not going to deny one side over the other and if I had to make a choice, we must never put the cart before the horse, so I'd have to go with God's Providence over all things. God-bless
I am hoping to show an aspect of this that seemingly most overlook. The power of God's Word to cut like a two edged sword to the very depths of man's soul and convict seems to be left out of this 'debate' Leaving out this most important fact is dangerously saying God'sWord cannot save this person or that person.. It is capable of saving anyone and everyone as Jesus died for the sins of the whole world.. We are humans operating with a very limited mental ability, compared to what we originally were equipped with before Adam and Eve sinned. And especially compared to God and His ability and knowledge. His thoughts and mind are unmeasurably above mans ability.. God is not involved with time as we are. Time was part of the curse and states a beginning and an end. God however is everywhere at once. He is in the past, the present and the future and everywhere.. We cannot comprehend that, as it is eternity past and future and man always relates eternal to time. Being chosen and being predestined are truths we should believe. God knew before creation. Foreknowledge does not eliminate free will. Also to be believed is Man having free will to accept or reject God's free offer of salvation by faith. . Again we can't comprehend both of these but God wants us to believe both. When we receive our glorified body and state we surely will say "Oh-yes, now I understand" God is pleased with the choice of FAITH by the individual, which are those that are convicted by hearing the scriptures, and then realize their need for the Savior and then they will choose to exercise faith. These are the ones that God wants with Him for eternity, those who chose Him when He called.
Casting sovereignty as a form of management style is not only brilliant, but actually matches up with Jesus’ parables of the talents and the pounds: in both cases, the Master who handed out His assets to his servants departs for a far country, making a micromanagement style of governance quite impossible. Indeed, the purpose of Jesus is to express the image of His Father perfectly, and these stewardship parables have always cited the absence of the Master while on that far journey as a symbol of Jesus’ ascension to Heaven and His long absence from us. In this way, Jesus revealed His Father’s management style. -- Personalizing Calvinist Sovereignty: John Piper’s house burns down. He meets with the insurance adjuster, and is surprised that she is a member of his congregation. They walk through the ruins of his house, and she verifies it was a true accident. She gets in her car, turns to her pastor, and says “We are not paying your claim.” “WHY NOT?” Piper cries out. She starts her car, grins at him, and yells out “ACT OF GOD!’ As she backs out of the driveway. --
God is sovereign over ALL things meaning He needs nothing outside of or added to Himself! In order to do anything. He can use what was intended for evil and turn it into our good. IF all things are predetermined by Him,He has lied about having no darkness in Him. Which we know there is NONE. He does not tempt us to sin or excuse it.
Nowhere in scripture does it say that unbelievers are predestined to salvation. Absolutely, positively nowhere. But what does it say what believers are predestined to and for ?. The Bible doe speak to that.
@@makedisciples8653 Ezekiel 34: 11-16 The sheep were scattered, but they will be returned. Those of the Faith of Abraham. Which is us. Jesus said He only came for the lost sheep of the house of israel. That was predestined
This is a good example of the sovereignty God dictated by mans philosophy. Avoiding the explicit texts of scripture discussing Gods rule and reign and using irrelevant examples doesn’t bring glory to God. In fact it diminishes it. Grace and peace Leighton! Keep pressing into Him brotha!
In his sovereignty, God chose to give men and angels freewill. He wants hearts not robots. Luke 13:34 shows the hurt Jesus felt when his elect Jews rejected his will. God decides what his sovereignty looks like, not men.
This has been enlightening. I am a Calvinist in regards to salvation. I am absolutely a presumpasitionalist, 5 point Tulip, but don’t have the God moves every molecule view of sovereignty, I’m not okay with the idea that God Causes evil, he ORDAINS it for good, but he doesn’t Cause it
@Johnny Don - God creates the potential for evil, the choice. It is not the nature of God to create evil. Otherwise Gen 1 would be a very different chapter. Man thru rebellion, sin, brought evil into a perfect world. God did not. Jesus, thru His sacrifice, became the correction of man's sin. He is Savior, not evil. He will judge evil.
@Johnny Don - There is nothing in that verse I disagree with at all. Without God's Word there would be nothing, thru Him everything is possible. But I guess you have to have an example of your verse in action in scripture. God cannot be just and create actual evil for the purpose of evil. But He can allow it and punish it because of our choices and still be just. When God judged Israel many times scripture says "He is a terrible God". Why does it say that? Because to Israel at that time it would definitely be terrible what God was going to do to them. It doesn't mean He is terrible. His judgment was fair because they chose the evil. And again in Gen 1 it is clear He made everything good and said on day 6 everything was very good. Man messed it up, God did not make the evil. He made the possibility of evil thru our choices. Otherwise we would never know love. If you cannot love by free will, it's not love. God made it possible for little children to be horribly hurt, He didn't cause that evil. We will be judged by our actions, our inviting evil into this world. We can only do that because God enables us to choose evil. Just before the flood God says judgment is coming because "the imagination of their hearts is only evil continually". God did not make the evil. He was disgusted by their thoughts and almost seems like He was shocked by its intensity.
Apparently it is impossible to represent a Calvanist accurately, even using the words of the various leaders verbatim. If hearing your soteriology described makes you want to deny its the right version, perhaps you recognize your view is bankrupt but by the irresistible decree of God just can't accept the truth.
@@matt_h_27 These statements don't make any sense because *Piper is being quoted in the context of answering such questions* . Yet its being called misrepresentation. The only way what you said makes any sense is if Piper gives different answers talking to Leighton, i.e. recognizes his views are wrong so alters it but keeps calling it Calvinism. "God extends the offer of salvation to all men, and they are responsible to accept it? That _just is_ Calvinism!" This covert tactic out will be the only way Calvinism's proponents will be able to salvage the ruins of their soteriology without defacing it. Better to just be humble and confess its wrong.
@@matt_h_27 You just doubled down on the same error. The authorities of Calvinism are what Leighton represents (either directly quoting or playing their recordings) and then responds to. Thus your response would have to presume the pretense of the sources' Calvinism or be a meaningless complaint (about understanding what _actual Calvinists_ teach and believe) . You then employ an argument from authority that you essentially can't refute Calvinism to Calvinists unless you believe Calvinism. By your logic, any world religion or even satanism could deny any refutation presented to their worldview, dismissing everything as a misunderstanding and reminding you that they know their own religion better than you do.
Dr Flowers, could you please do a lesson on how determinism is different from fatalism. I know both you and Calvinist's see these as separate beliefs but I'm not quite following how. Thank you
Also could you do a lesson on your perspective of God and time. I see God as outside of time, so although He communicates to us in a sense of time, He is not 'in' time, so His foreknowledge is not 'looking forward' as generally taught, but just what 'is' to Him. Would this be a correct interpretation?
A lot of people have it backwards. It's Satan who wants to control, not God. That's why when people aren't saved they think freedom is sinning and doing whatever they want to do and when people are saved they realize that sin really is bondage and turning away from sin is true freedom.
We die to Self daily and follow Jesus, in a permanent role of service to Him(bond servant), but Scripture is clear we are no longer a slave, but a child, and if a child, then an heir of God through Christ.
“About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad-in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls- she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
Yes! This is what I have been feeling about God's sovereignty. Yes he is sovereign but we have different definitions of sovereignty. Thanks for this great video. And the A.W. Tozer quote! 🔥
What is written: "The Pharisees & Scribes *REJECTED* the *WILL of God* for themselves by not being baptized by John." -Luke 7:30 What Calvinism teaches: "The Pharisees & Scribes *FULFILLED* the *sovereign will* of God for themselves by not being baptized by John."
Tim lamb is the divine decree eternal? Is the divine decree universal? Is the divine decree immutable? Is the divine decree unconditional? Is the divine decree efficacious? According to Calvinism the answer to all of the above is YES! What then is left that escapes the divine decree?
@@primeobjective5469 It looks something like this in a logical formula 1. God is omniscient 2. God is omnipotent 3. God has a will 4. God sometimes intervenes to effectuate his will. 5. Which leads to the question of when does God not intervene? When it leads to effectuate his will.
Who cares if God is controlling Satan’s moves “on the Chess board.” What matters is that God has already won, is in control, and sovereignly allows every move according to His word. If my boss is fully in control, allows me to do something, puts his review seal on it, and could easily have done it himself, could I say he made it happen? Maybe. Depends on how I am using words.
When there is a contradiction, it is so easy to use the word 'mystery' to stop further questions.
Without cognitive dissonance it is impossible to please Calvinists.
As someone who has been free from the chains of Calvinism I hated all the confusion and felt God was just some mystical being you can't understand. Once freed, starting with the biblical truth that Christ came to take away the sins of the whole world I was then reminded that God is light and there is no darkness in Him at all. He is not the gnostic God that Calvinism preaches, mysterious and only saved by "receiving transcendent knowledge (regeneration and faith) of Sophia's (Holy Spirit) Divine Spark within the soul."
Read Gnosticism and you will see so many parallels.
So you would prefer him to give an opinion when he is a Bible teacher?
Remember Job? All that he experienced, the suffering, his losses, his accusers (friends), and when he questioned God, God did not give Job the answers to this question, why? Instead, God gave Job examples of His sovereignty. From Job’s position and perspective, it was a mystery, meaning he couldn’t make any sense of why his God allowed it all.
Do mysteries exist? Do we fully understand the depths of God? “So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.” 1 Corinthians 2
@@robertmichaels2914from the hindsight of Job, it is no more a mystery but it is for the glory of God that we suffer in righteousness. So Christians should be clueless why they suffer. 1 Peter:8-22. The mystery of that Calvinists refer to is why God predestined others to be saved and also not others is unscriptural. When they can't explain this concept, the easy way out to answer is 'mystery'. The 'mystery' in Ephesians 3 is God's goodness to ALL.
Thank you so much! I don’t accept calvinism’s definitions at all. They’re wrong right out of the gate.
Great video. The Calvinist doctrine grieved my spirit and to hear this helps me understand the lunacy of such belief systems.
Then, you don't fully understand what Calvinism teaches because Leighton Flowers is speaking on Hyper-Calvinism.
His hypocrisy is quite obviously clear to the objective listener.
Biblically accurate, informative and beautifully presented. 🙏
Whitfield and Wesley vehemently disagreed with each other yet stayed friends their whole lives. THAT'S a miracle.
Read my comment I left above, make sure to examine the text I provided.
This video is so important!! I believe this is at the heart of the problem with Calvinism. Thanks Leighton!
This really helped me understand that this word does not mean the same thing to everyone who is using it. Context is really important!
Same, calvinism grieved my spirit. Then when i found sites like yours and books by Troy J. Edwards it set me free from this understanding of God that to me never seemed just and brought me to the realization of gow great, merciful, and loving my God is.
5:31🔥 The Tozer definition of the Sovereignty of God is so apt! Especially the latter part. Wow.
I am so grateful for this ministry!!! My heart is filled with awe for God everytime you teach about His nature. May bless you and expand this ministry. It is truly a breath of fresh air in such a hostile time. The truth is being attacked from outside and within and many people are scared to admit that they are struggling inwardly. Everytime I watch one these videos, my hope in God is renewed but I am also challenged; He has trusted me with free-will and He is a just Judge. I am challenged to consider how I treat those He has created; if He respects their freewill, so should I.
Mo Jo so God does sometimes interfere in the free will of man? You’ve just established free will. Even in spite of your best efforts to deny free will, you STILL unwittingly affirm it!
Have you ever heard the expression ‘better to remain silent and thought a fool then to speak and remove all doubt’? Yeah, well you’ve removed all doubt. 🙃🤪🤣
Amen. Well said. God bless you as you expose the diabolical doctrine of Calvinism and promote the good news that God is not willing for any to perish, but wishes for all to be saved. Thank you.
I am grateful for this too, but I really need prayer. I’ve never been in a position like this before. I’ve been a Calvinist for 17 years and I totally have had my eyes opened, but I am still so confused. I feel like I’m re-learning everything, wondering what I still believe because it was right, don’t believe anymore, I feel like I’m in the twilight zone!! All I hear out of everyone’s mouth is the word “sovereignty” all the time! How did I not notice before? It’s all my friends, church family, small group, pastors say. And yes, i know and believe god is sovereign, but my definition has changed. This video was very helpful...I feel discouraged about it tonight. Other days I’m excited and want to yell it from the mountain top. I wish I had someone to talk to like a pastor. I am totally submerged in Calvinism. I loooove my pastors and church, just don’t want to talk to them about it. At least not yet...it’ll just make me feel more alone. I need to feel like I’m not alone.
Alana L wow! Crazy to see you here in the comments! I’ve been watching your UA-cam for about a year now and have been so encouraged by you! I waned to share with you that I’ve been a hard determinist Calvinist for over a year now and just recently my husband is starting to be convinced otherwise... I’m not seeing it yet though... I’m honestly kind of scared to believe anything else because I was in a false charismatic church before coming to know the reformed faith ... and our experience was so crazy and supernatural .. it feels as if my salvation is wrapped up in knowing the exact correct theology and it’s so stressful for me! Anyways, I wanted to say that when you posted your video about not being a Calvinist I was kind of disappointed but continued to watch you because I just love your content and your personality ... but now I’m starting to see things from the other perspective.. so just an encouragement that you’re not alone! I think my husband is at the point where he isn’t calling himself a Calvinist anymore and even though I’m having a really hard time seeing it I’m searching he scriptures and praying earnestly for truth... also your videos about being a submissive wife help me tremendously... especially in times of hard disagreements like this,I know that I can still be obedient to Gods word by submitting to my husbands leadership. Anyways, just wanted to say Hi and thank you for encouraging this young wife and mama :)
Jessica Rhodes oh how awesome:) yes...after 17 years I’m free!!! I will pray for you! Theology is man made. We can hold it loosely. Scripture is everything.
Thank you for your prayers Alana! I think I’m starting to see it... it’s so hard to let go of Calvinism though.. it feels like my salvation is wrapped up in it. Was it hard for you to let go?
Jessica Rhodes I think that’s an indicator that we are taught to make the theology above the gospel...it’s a shame. I u see stand. It wasn’t hard to let go for me...I think it’s so obvious in scripture that Jesus loves his creation and died for anyone who believes, that’s how powerful the gospel is...will keep praying for you and willing to talk anytime:)
Thanks girl! My husband and I are reading a book right now called “the faith of the elect” and I’m also learning a little about the roots of Calvinism and it’s quite intriguing how closely it lines up with ancient philosophy. I would love to talk more about it.. my husband has recently completely rejected Calvinism and so I’m doing my best to read the scriptures and listen to him. Would love to talk more about it with you... I’m encouraged by you!
Wow thank you!! I have been waiting for you to post on this key word that is so misunderstood and mistaught among Christians today. I have been so grieved by this teaching for so long but so thankful for this correction on what God's Sovereignty truly vs our free will. May all praise go to God for how He exercises His sovereignty in such a beautiful way in which He is so powerful that He gives us the ability to choose for ourselves and be responsible for our actions even as He works to influence us for good all the time.
God's greatest attribute is Love as demonstrated at the Cross of Christ!
Thank you in God there is no darkness
This is the message we proclaim to you….
I enjoyed this presentation the most of all your other works I have seen. Your arguments were well presented and illustrated, making it very easy for me to understand the point you were stating. Great work, I wish you will do more of these in your other presentations. God bless you.
So when a rape victim comes to a calvinist pastor he will say"Take it easy,it was gods will"
😔
Nah…personalize it to THEM.
John Piper’s house burns down. He meets with the insurance adjuster, and is surprised that she is a member of his congregation. They walk through the ruins of his house, and she verifies it was a true accident.
She gets in her car, turns to her pastor, and says “We are not paying your claim.”
“WHY NOT?” Piper cries out.
She starts her car, grins at him, and yells out “ACT OF GOD!’ As she backs out of the driveway.
Thank you Dr Flowers for another excellent, coherent explanation of the logical inconsistencies of Calvinism. Your presentations are clear and challenging, but made in a caring, non-threatening manner, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who appreciates this. I particularly value the fact that in making your arguments you quote directly from both Calvin and leading contemporary Calvinists. It is good to know there is an alternative way of interpreting scripture in regards to God's sovereignty and His plan of salvation that makes sense and is founded on Biblical doctrine. With love and thanks from Cornwall, UK.
I’ve been very confused and discouraged. This has really helped me see how stupid Calvinism is. I’m sorry but it truly is crazy, I think I can confidently say that now.
It's well-intentioned but shreds the character of God in the process.
Calvinism strikes me as Stoicism in Christian rags. I think I detect that in Calvin and perhaps it stemmed from his university work on Stoicism. It would be an interesting study.
@@dagwould The Stoic aspects of Calvinism could have come from Calvin's university work, as you suggested. Another possibility is that Calvin got it from the writings of his favorite theologian, Augustine of Hippo. Augustine was a Manichean for ten years before converting to Christianity. During his dispute with Pelagius, Augustine re-embraced some aspects of his old Manichean beliefs, which were an amalgamation of Stoicism, Gnosticism and Zoroastrianism. Of course it might have come from both...
@@DamonNomad82 well put.
Just say no to calvinism 👍🏼
Wonderful video, I thank the Lord for this ministry! I was under Calvinism for more than a decade, this channel was used by our Lord to undo much of the flawed beliefs of our Lord's character through a Calvinist view of His nature. Love >sovereignty. I continue to be so blessed and healed through the teachings that come out through this ministry, thankyou Dr Flowers and all who are involved for all you are doing it has made such a difference to me and my family (as I'm teaching it to my 5 children, so it's affecting the next generation too)
Shalom and blessings Rob and family 🇦🇺
Bravo. This video summarizes the traditionalist view in a concise and clear way. Overall, a devastating argument against Calvinist interpretation.
Did God not command us to love Him and our neighbor (Great commandment)? Of course He did. And considering authentic love is only demonstrated through freedom of choice, there must be free will. Otherwise God would be a liar, and we know that God is not a man that He should lie (Numbers 23:19).
Piper just admitted he can’t explain it
Wow!
This is by far the best explanation yet that I have heard !!
Thank-you Dr. Flowers for your work!
I like how you're always pointing to little nuggets like in the Lord's prayer to show that we indeed have free will which may go against the will and desire of the Lord. Bless you brother Flowers 😇
@@matt_h_27 Obviously talking about human will and desires in contrast to YHWH's. Humans "getting their own way" doesn't thwart the sovereignty of the LORD - those two are not mutually exclusive, i.e. the story of Joseph and his brothers.
*What Leighton ultimately teaches is that God is not actively sovereign in the salvation of individuals. God is passive in salvation, according to him.* Can't say I've ever heard Leighton say this, especially since Leighton's view is that God is the only one who can ever offer salvation - that's the distinction: God offers it, will we choose it? Just because one denies the Lord Jesus, does not mean the sovereignty of God has been silenced there, how could it?
*Problem: if God is not actively in control of that area but yet knows the outcome (who will come to Him and who will not), then does God really need to “draw” those whom He already knows will reject Him? What would be the point?* His knowing the outcome IS him actively in control. Even if the LORD draws those will ultimately reject him, he would do it so they are with out *_any_* excuse.
*If He is both omnipotent and omniscient, then whatever happens is under His meticulous control.* This statement presupposes Calvianism, can't do that. I believe scripture is as Leighton says, the LORD has decreed that humanity have free will. If not, God would not have given the command to not eat from the tree, much less toss them out of the garden because the violated the command he gave.
*Yes, sovereign means meticulous control.* Methinks you're mistaken as even the English dictionary doesn't narrow the definition to that degree nor do I believe the "meticulous" modifier can be found in scripture. To know all does not equate to cause/determine all, you get that right? You seem to agree when you say nothing happens without his knowledge.
*Yes, sovereign means meticulous control.... This does not mean He forces evil to transpire .."* According to "high" Calvinism, God does do this. He MUST do so because he has absolute meticulous control.
*There are no accidents or surprises in His creation.* This is understood and Leighton doesn't ever say this nor does any bible student, I would dare say.
*And when He says He’s going to do something, He will.* John 3:16 clique, I know but the scripture is telling us *_whomsoever_* believes. This is a willful action on the part of the human.
Tjel 81 Thank you.
EXCELLENT VIDEO! And dang near quoted what I always tell a believer confused about Calvanisms view of sovereignty...God is IN control. He is not ALL CONTROLLING.
How would you explain the difference brother. That is kinda vague
@@robertmichaels2914 mainly in the affairs of man and the final outcome of the human race He created in His image, GOD IS IN CONTROL. His plan of salvation will succeed because of His ultimate power and authority that no man or devil can thwart…. He is Sovereign. His word never fails, His law is perfect and cannot be undone, He has the final judgement, etc.
However, under the umbrella of God’s sovereignty He has given mankind free will and dominion over the earth and its creatures. We were created to partner with God to multiply, subdue the earth, and carry+release God’s glory wherever we go. As you can see some people submit to God’s leadership and some do not. Some obey, some rebel. Some walk in pride, some in humility. Etc. - God does not “control” man in this arena as Calvanistic thought presumes. This isn’t a puppet show and everyone just moves as God pulls strings. The Holy Spirit influences in many ways but men have the response-ability to respond accordingly. Hence, God is not ALL CONTROLLING. But He is however IN CONTROL.
Leighton thank you for the video. Can you point me to where the quote is located on the Desiring God website. I would like to be able to quote it. Thanks for all that you are doing.
Brilliant and blessed exposition!
EXACTELY! i don't know why it is so hard to realize that God controls His attributes...just like we can control our emotions and that our emotions ultimately do not reign over us and make my decisions for me. God Himself is sovereign over His sovereignty. i just cant understand how Him giving me the ability to make decisions lessons His sovereignty.
What a gifted explanation! I am so grateful for this ministry!
Excellent! I love the Tozer quote.
Our free will does not diminish God's sovereignty. It *shows* God's sovereignty.
AMEN!
@@timffoster Try again
And your Biblical warrant for saying that? Or are you just spitballing?
Can you give an example from Scripture?
Can you make "freewill choices" outside of God's Sovereignty?
Ah, the punt to “mystery.” 😏
The power of God's word, just this explanation, brings restoration to me to deepen my relationship with the Lord!!
Calvinistic Sovereignty is Monster Sovereignty.
"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it" "The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will"
Awesome video man, I’ve been struggling allot lately with pretty much everything.
Hang in there friend, let none take your crown. God bless.
@The CCC you are not alone! Many people are struggling. Lets continue to dig into the scriptures on our own as Dr. Leighton encourages people. He is willing to reveal Himself to those seek Him diligently
Struggling with calvinism? Let me know. I can help.
John Piper is SO WRONG... He could be called an "idiot...." Brother James 🙏
Thank you for this ministry Dr Flowers. I believe what you are communicating are consistent to biblical data and reality concerning God's character and way of salvation. Glory to God!
The "chess" analogy is perfect. Which is a more beautiful picture of sovereignty? A God who has to control the chess board, or a God who gives the other player full libertarian free will while still bringing about His own purposes? The answer is obvious to me.
@@timffoster, if God is the chess master (and obviously He is in Dr. Flowers' metaphor), He can do all of the above. Try again.
Top-notch video! Love the Schindler's List clip! Well done Dr. Flowers!
Only a stiff-necked, wilfully ignorant Calvin'ist would CHOOSE not to believe this. Great video.
Thank Mr Flowers
When talking about sovereignty in the ages the Bible was written, they were meaning a more system you obey the king, lord, prince over the land and swear to them a form of vassal master them. Meaning we obey His laws willingly and staying on the lawful side of the realm.
Beautiful!🙏
Nicely Done
Thank you so much for your channel. We recently joined a church, and while we love this church and people, they are all Calvinist who studied under John McArthur.
One thing that stood out to me in this video is that even Satan doesn’t believe in Determinism/Soveringty like Calvinist do. Look at the book of Job. Satan tells God that if God took away everything Job has, then Job would curse God. That obviously implies Job had freedom. Otherwise Satan would have known that God would always keep Job from cursing him. Especially if God was controlling every thought and action of Job. There would be no point in testing Job under determinism. Job wouldn’t be the one cursing God, or not cursing God. It would be God causing Job to act however he wanted.
If Satan believed God was controlling every thought and action of Job (I.e Determinism) what would be the point in testing Job? Satan would obviously see there is no outcome in where he could get Job to do anything other than what God was going to make Job do.
It's much simpler to say that Calvinists merely project their own personality traits onto God.
I've said elsewhere, that while I was a practicing Buddhist and before I accepted the Lord's call earnestly, I knew many many Buddhist Calvinists. They treated Buddhist scripture exactly as Calvinists do with Christianity. They form their arguments identically. They treat their opponents and detractors the same. Calvinism is less theological doctrine and by far more a personality type. Fortunately, it is one that can be shed once we surrender our own will and accept God's in it's place.
Piper’s explanation of evil requires him to understand God as ESSENTIALLY evil. Evil must be one of his attributes...I must have slept through that part of systematic theology during seminary
No it doesn't, if God decrees the fall it can simply mean that he allowed men to have a single choice, the fall was just man making a single choice, but God putting the tree and allowing the serpent should let you know that God knew and planned what was happened.
Tim lamb there is no room for ‘allowed, allowing, allow, allows, allowance’ in the divine decree. The decree is universal, eternal, unconditional and efficacious - nothing is left to simply be ‘allowed’. It is caused by God or it does not happen - THIS is Calvinism.
Tim lamb I’m sorry brother, but that’s not what Piper said. He said all things are decreed and that includes evil.
timffoster again, neither ‘allow’ nor ‘permission’ contextually fit the divine decree. According to Calvinism, God did not simply ‘allow’ Satan into the garden, He created Satan and so directed Him that even the pride that was found within Satan was placed there by God. God meticulously controlled Satan to enter the garden, deceive Eve, and then God caused Eve to be deceived, and the caused Adam to follow, etc.
There is no stray atoms in Calvinism, everything is meticulously controlled 100% and moves only and exactly as God deems.
@@jaygee2187 ah, you realize there are three types of classical Calvinist thought, most modern Calvinist are compatabalist, you are misinformed. I think you are referring to superlapsarian views.
Besides our common sense intuition of the concepts of free will and justice, verses like this pretty soundly refute the Calvinistic interpretation of sovereignty: “They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.”
great video brother. Glory to God
Well done! Thank you.
Hello. I am just wondering if y’all can give me your “personal” definitions of what sovereignty is as an attribute of God. And is he in total control, or partially sovereign? Is his sovereignty dependent on our free-will, and so on. I am interested in your thoughts.
God does not have to control our choices to be Sovereign.
No TRUE Calvinist has EVER said that God controls our choices. This video misrepresents Calvinism.
@@courtneycrusenberry6238 Is John Piper a true Calvinist? Did you hear him starting at 3:08? He definitely says God controls everything that comes to pass, including our choices.
@@courtneycrusenberry6238 I think you know its not that simple. Paul tells us to work out our salvation, but then says its God working in us both to will and to do...So I agree with you sort of, but those on the reformed side do believe God is guiding our path and yet we are still responsible. Its the "antinomy" Piper mentions in the video clip above.
Mcgragor I agree. But it’s a misrepresentation to claim that all Calvinists believe that God controls us like we’re robots. We’re not robots and we’re not puppets. I don’t claim to understand the ins and outs of it all, but I know it’s not that.
Mcgragor Plus the way that Flowers presents his information seems really unloving and divisive.
Can Dr Flowers or anyone help me answer this question about provisionism: if Dr Flowers believes in Molinism, which is a form of predestination in which God doesn't act on the will, but creates the circumstances in which he foresees we will act favorably to the gospel, then how can you say that God loves everyone EQUALLY? I mean, if through previnient grace I am in better circumstances to accept the gospel that someone that lives, for instance, deep in the jungles of the Amazon, doesn't that mean that God loves me more?. My point is that I fully agree that hard-determinism is false theology, but if you are in the Molinist camp (like Dr Flowers is) then he is hard pressed to accept that God offers better means of salvation to some even though they have to make a choice to make that grace become efficacious (this is what Luis de Molina taught). In the final analysis, the question of predestination is not if God does it or not because even in Molinism he does, but rather if he moves the will or not.
HDM -- I think we need to stop claiming to believe in theologies and just believe God's word. I don't care about terms like "Molinism." I care about the truth. You are arguing on the basis of theology, not based on Scripture. The Bible tells us what is true. That should be enough. But Calvinists, Arminians, Provisionists, etc., are trying to understand HOW and WHY that truth is true. That isn't our concern, and we cannot possibly know unless God has revealed it to us in His word.
You are also making assumptions that aren't founded on Scripture. Where does the Bible say that God loves all men equally? I'm not sure you understand what "love" means in the Bible. Love isn't a feeling; love is how you choose to treat someone. God loves all people. Everything they have is something they have received -- even their very lives. God loves all people. He gave His Son to die for all people. God loves all people. He has offered salvation to all people. God loves all people. He has given people the choice.
I think you are confusing the human term "fairness" in your thinking. You think that it isn't "fair" that some people get a better witness, or better opportunities, or more opportunities, to believe. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what "fair" means. The best illustration I can give is sports. If two football teams play fair, one teams wins and one team loses. Fairness isn't about an equal outcome. Fairness isn't even having an equal opportunity. If the New England Patriots play fair against any high school football team, they will win every game. What makes the game fair isn't the opportunity or the outcome. What makes the game fair is that everyone plays by the same rules.
God does this, too. The rule for salvation is the same for everyone: believe. If we believe, then God will save us. God was under no obligation to save anyone. That He chose to save anyone is an expression of His mercy and grace. So God cannot be unfair not to offer everyone the exact same opportunities. God isn't even responsible for spreading the gospel message; He has made US responsible for doing that. If people die never hearing about Jesus, then that is the fault of the church, not the fault of God.
People get wrapped around the axle trying to understand a single word like "predestination" and allow the debate to color every aspect of their faith. That is a terrible way to approach Scripture. Rather than simply believing what the Bible says about predestination, they demand to know HOW it works and WHY God does it that way. Not our problem. I am confident that there are good answers about foreknowledge, predestination, and election, to be found in the Bible. (I'm pretty sure I know them.) But if we are asking because we demand answers from God, rather than obedience to God, then we aren't ready for the question let alone the answer.
HDM -- I see that you deleted your reply to me, but I think it is important that I answer anyway.
First, I reject the claims that there are 40,000 denominations. That is a number thrown out by people trying to undermine Christianity, as if Christianity is only true if everyone understands all of it and lives it out in precisely the same way. Rubbish. There are far fewer denominations. And you make the mistake of thinking that differences in denominations are all about differences in theology. They are not. Denominations are defined by their membership and association, not by their theology. Many denominations share common theology, but they do have different styles of worship, styles of music, order of worship, and practices. That is, they have a difference of implementation, not doctrine. It is true that churches within a denomination usually share the same doctrine, but not always. It is about association. There are not 40,000 distinct sets of doctrine.
Another thing you misunderstand is what separates the doctrines of one denomination from another. It isn't about what they believe that is true -- it is about what they DON'T believe that is true. Every theological system I've seen rejects Scripture -- but they reject different parts of it. Just because theology is "derived from Scripture" doesn't make it true, any more than a movie "based on a true story" is accurate. Let's use your example that some believe that God wants all to be saved and some believe God doesn't. What does the Bible say? "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” (Acts 17:30-31) " 'And I, if I am [e]lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.' This He said, signifying by what death He would die." (John 12:32) It is clear from Scripture that God DOES want all men to repent and be saved. Calvinists don't accept this because they reject Scripture. The Bible NEVER says that God wants people to perish. On the contrary, it says that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked.
Another thing theologians do, aside from rejecting passages of Scripture they don't like, is to invent doctrines not found in God's word. Taking your example, there is ABSOLUTELY NO Scripture that says that God loves everyone equally. Who cares is Aquinas rejects that teaching? Rejecting it should be the default position for all believers because it is an unfounded claim. Protestant reformers taught "Total Depravity" which is not found anywhere in Scripture, and they must take verses out of context and stitch them together -- then squint really hard at the result -- to believe it. But they certainly teach it.
But I find that one of the biggest obstacles people have in understanding Scripture is that they don't know what the WORDS mean that they are throwing around. Let's use your example of "justification." You say that some believe in justification by faith alone, and some believe in justification by faith and works. What do you think "justification" means? When do you think justification occurs? There is a sequence of events in the life of a believer: belief, salvation, justification, and glorification. When we believe, God forgives us our sins, cleanses us of all unrighteousness, and seals us by the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our inheritance. That is salvation. We are saved by faith alone. Justification is a declaration. We are called righteous AFTER we are made righteous. But that is only justification before God. There is also justification before men. Our Christian walk did not end with salvation, it began. "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10) The good works we do AFTER salvation, in gratitude and worship of God, are our testimony to the world. These words and deeds are our justification before men. That is why James said that faith without works is dead. We ARE justified by works (not saved by works), but not toward God. A life without evidence of salvation is dead -- it produces nothing.
To clarify justification, think about what we call "justifiable homicide." A person who takes a life in self defense justifies himself before the judge by offering his testimony. The judge then declares the person justified. The judge isn't saying that the killing was okay, he is saying that the person is okay DESPITE the killing. Likewise, the life we live is a testimony that we will give before God at the judgment when He will finally make our justification official. We won't be accounting for sin at the judgment; we will be offering our testimony. Jesus already took care of our sin. In the meantime, our Christian walk is our testimony to others as part of our witness.
What is foreknowledge" Knowledge beforehand. What knowledge? Before what? The Bible says that God foreknew Jesus before the foundation of the world. It says that Jesus was chosen before the foundation of the world. It DOESN"T says that we were foreknown before the foundation of the world. People read the "before the foundation of the world" into every place the word "foreknew" is used when that isn't supported by Scripture.
What is predestination? Determining a destination beforehand. What destiny? Before what? Jesus was always destined to be king over people of faith -- whoever that might be. We were not chosen before the foundation of the world -- we were chosen by proxy by God choosing Jesus. That is what "chosen in Him" means. We could not have been chosen in Him before we were saved because we were NOT in Him until we were saved. The predestination Paul talks about in Romans and Ephesians is telling Gentile believers that God's plan all along was not just to saved Israel, but to save the whole world -- including them. The Jews should have understood this since God promised Abraham that all the families of the earth would be blessed through him, but they didn't believe that part of Scripture.
No theology is better than the Scripture it is based upon. God is an excellent communicator. He doesn't need flawed human beings to "clarify" what He meant. Believers have the indwelling Holy Spirit to help them. Don't you think that He is capable of guiding our understanding? What theology does is gives us false teachings that gets in the way of understanding. What theology does is tell us what parts of Scripture to ignore. The trouble Christians have today is that the only way to understand Scripture is to unlearn all the lies they've been told that cause our confusion. We do not need a "framework" to believe the Bible. All we need is to believe the Bible. All of it.
Enon Knives I really enjoyed reading this post, particularly your description of justification.
If I may share a little regarding our justification before God; believing in Jesus does not place us in a position of being justified simply because we have faith, but believing in Jesus places us IN Jesus, and Jesus was justified before God because of His perfect faith lived out, living not by His own will, but by the Fathers will. Our justification is found in the faith OF Christ.
Likewise, our glorification is also found IN Christ. Jesus was glorified as One having earned it. After His ascension the Holy Spirit could descend with the justified, glorified life that Christ obtained, and the Holy Spirit gives that life, that Spiritually justified and glorified life to believers, placing them in Christ.
Enon Knives Even though you dispute the number of denominations I see that in essence you agree with me when you say “there are fewer than that”. So. Ok, let’s say that there are 3,000 denominations that differ in one or another matter of faith or morals. How does that materially change the nature of the the question I posed to you?. They are all Bible believing Christian denominations, they all believe that the holy spirit indwells them and yet differ in essential aspects of the faith. You for example accuse Calvinist of misusing scripture regarding total depravity but I am pretty sure they will raise the same accusations against your assertions. And they will use the same bible and probably some sort of sophisticated greek and hebrew lexicons or scholarly sources to prove their point. And then we are faced with the words of the Apostle Peter that said that the letters of the Apostle Paul are not only difficult to understand but also can be heavily distorted by the untaught and unstable and bring their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16). Who is the untaught and unstable that Peter is talking about? And how can I know that you are not one them? Jesus said that truth will set us free, but if one of these 3,000 or so Churches has the fullness of truth then it means that 2,999 are teaching some form of error (i.e, heresy). And if you reply that most of them agree on the fundamentals my question is what are the fundamentals? and who has the authority to define them?
I assume that you believe that your views and your interpretation are correct. But, why should I trust your exegesis? Why should I believe your interpretation of what the “words” mean? And by the way, where does the bible say that we should ONLY focus on what the words mean? For instance, the Church Fathers didn’t put much weight on lexicography but rather used typology to understand the deep meaning of the bible. In other words, what makes your method of bible interpretation better than, for instance, that of the apostolic Fathers? How can you, 2,000 years later and many generations away from Jesus, have a better way of interpreting the text than those who received not only the written word but also the spoken tradition in how to interpret it (2 Thessalonians 2:15)?
I agree with some of your points and disagree with others based on my understanding of the bible but unless you are infallible how can you know that your interpretation is better than mine? We can spend hundreds of posts here arguing about what justification means based on the bible only to find at the end that we just don’t agree on what we believe Paul is teaching. In other words, your approach to scripture doesn’t solve the problem, just exacerbates it.
More than happy to discuss each and every topic that you poise, but first I’d like to hear your thoughts about these simple questions. And don’t tell me that this is a matter of just of following the Holy Spirit, not only because you cannot know at what degree the Spirit is working in me in comparison to you, but also because as I mentioned almost any sincere Christian claims that the Spirit is working through him and yet comes to very different conclusions after reading Scripture.
Lastly, I haven’t deleted my reply. It has always been there
@@jaygee2187 -- I agree with you.
God is not "conflicted" and He is not "confused"...Free will does solve the "problem", every Calvinist claims that it is a "mystery"? There is a huge difference in "sovereignty of God and "determinism"...
God is indeed Sovereign.
Calvinism is just a complete blasphemy of God's character. I wonder what Calvinists will answer to God when the people who made shipwreck of their faith because they believed that God "predestined them not to Heaven but to Hell" all because they were brainwashed by a system rather than being shown that they can freely come and humble themselves, repent and submit to God and see that Jesus Christ's death was sufficient for all; even them, if they only chose to believe and live for Him rather than believe a system of lies that separates people from God is who Holy and Gracious.
And they started capitalism based on that assumption.
I asked this question to a Calvinist friend, and he said he didn’t care: as long as HE HIMSELF was saved, he didn’t have to worry about anybody else’s because, as a Calvinist, he was convinced salvation was God’s business ENTIRELY. I walked away, thinking that was the purest distillation of selfishness, and was a bit taken aback that it came out of the mouth of a Christian.
Calvinism states that God is the author of evil. All of it, and He is the only one doing evil. It’s sickening.
I said things like this before I was a Calvinist haha
Great video! The Sovereignty of the King! So thankful for this ministry.
I'm binge watching this thank you Jesus. I want to know your character again without the lens of Calvinism
FINALLY! Someone who explains it so perfectly!
Very well done! Don't think I've ever considered the prayer about God's will being done. Great point!
The Calvinist definition of the "sovereignty of God" has become a Calvinist code word for "you have no free will." "Sovereignty" in the minds of many Calvinists means the arbitrary dealings of God with man.
@@timffoster but just not his choice of salvation evidently.
@@timffoster John Calvin contradicts himself big time. He may say that man has free will, but then he turns around and supports the lie that God "predestined" many for hell and only a few for heaven. To embrace Augustinian double "predestination" is to deny that man has free will. I mean after all, if God "predestined" millions for hell way before they were ever born, then that would mean that they have no free will in regards to their eternal destiny. Man, therefore becomes a predestined puppet with no free will.
How will these people approach a totally loving righteous God on judgement day and confess pushing this garbage on humanity ? It really doesn't get much worse than this... Blaspheming God and his word...
One of the best yet.
@Soteriology101 Hey, great video. I have recently been pondering the sovereignty of God. This video explains fairly well why we have free will in a general sense, but could you explain or make a vid explaining how His sovereignty impacts salvation. Like, having faith and responding to the Gospel... is that soverngly decreed before it even happens, or is it free will. In my view, the first option is better supported through scripture. But I'd love to know your take on it... thanks for reading
You could watch the video on the order of salvation as well as total depravity for starters.
Hello there. Here is an exercise for you.
Ephesians 1-2:10. Read both chapters up to verse 10 of chapter 2. This is a classic passage about Soteriology. Maybe read it a few times to get context. With pen in hand, list all the blessings (1:3) of God through the entire passage, all that he has done for his people, you. Also look for his motives and purposes for doing it all. And look for the word “will” too
When you finished, and have exhausted all things about God, and all he’s done for you, then move on to the matter of man. Describe man in chapter, all the things. And what did God do for you in Chapter two? What attributes of God do you see in these chapters. When it comes to this passage, which is about salvation, what conclusions will you come to regarding God’s sovereignty in this passage.
Hope this helps. God bless
Great video! Do you have one explaining why Arminianism is not man centered or works based salvation?
Amen
God is omniscient and omnipotent, he knows all possible outcomes of all decisions, and he interacts miraculously with the universe in a number of different ways to bring about his purposes. In this way he has a firm grasp on all that will happen, but he does it by merely pulling strings here and there. That's my viewpoint at least. Take it with a grain of salt.
When you believe things your don't understand, then you are superstitious .. like Piper.
I agree that Piper is wrong, but we should criticize him properly. I think the reason people don't understand the Bible is because they don't believe what it says. Like Piper. We don't believe what we understand; we understand what we believe. When people ask how to understand Scripture, I always say to read it assuming that it is true -- just like you would read any work of non-fiction.
I used to believe that prayer was a waste of time and effort because of the Calvinist definition of sovereignty.
Mr Pipper 2 Peter 3:9. It’s obvious your not making sense & contradicting scripture = incorrect doctrine.....it’s that simple.
Spot On ✝️
I've been in turmoil and agony of mind for 40 years because of Calvinism. Never believing that I was one of the Elect, and that God didn't love me because I wasn't one of them. Please could you do a video on the verse "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated". My apologies if you already have, as I just haven't come across it yet.
Sorry to hear! I remember struggling with this and wrestling with God and I found that this is a preferential love spoke about and seen in that God had allowed the lineage of the Messiah to go through Jacob and their is a pattern of God loving the lowly, weak, broken things confounding the wisdom of the world. Shouldn’t God love Esau more? The world would prefer the strength of men, the skill, the wisdom the pride.
It’s the same idea of hating our family in preference to loving Jesus more.
So the hatred is not the same we try to place on it.
I could be off on it but that helped me alot. I see in the story always a chance for Esau to repent and God dealing with his hard heart throughout his life and when he weeps with Jacob I wonder if he got it.
Thanks for the video. Everytime I point these teachings to a Calvinist they say I'm misrepresenting there teachings. Now, I have the quotes.
Well said. God is not and does not take control of decisions of those who choose evil.
"De-Calvanized" I LOVE it. God IS in ultimate control of the bigger picture of events, otherwise how could anything He prophesied ever come to pass? But as this video teaches, God NEVER violates anyone's free will - He is NOT in control of a person's will. So how can God be in "ultimate" control of bringing His word to pass if He cannot control man? Answer; GOD IS A MASTER CHESS PLAYER. He already knows how every person will choose given a certain set of circumstances, so He is able to maneuver the circumstances of choice to get the desired outcome of how things will ultimately play out in a circumstance in every day life or such as the end of this age (Matthew 13) without ever violating a person's free will. Think of it in terms of computer science-binary language "if then else" possibilities and probabilities. If it's a 1 then you're presented with another choice between another 1 and a 0, then another set and subset of choices versus if it's a 0 which is a different set and subset of choices on into ad infinitum; e.g. God already knew Pharaoh's heart and how he would react to every last choice of a "1" or a "0" in his interactions with Moses and with the plagues. So God maneuvered such so that His glory would be seen in Pharaoh (Exodus 9) by Pharaoh's bad choices - but Pharaoh could never blame God for such because they were Pharaoh's choices not God's. God didn't tempt Pharaoh to sin - on the contrary God revealed His power to Pharaoh so Pharaoh wouldn't resist Him but God also knew how Pharaoh would choose. It's not God's fault if Pharaoh was too stupid in his arrogance to see it. What this comes down to is that God IS the ultimate Judge because He is Omniscient knowing all things and how to balance out the equation so that He 1) didn't violate Pharaoh's will 2) didn't tempt Pharaoh to do evil 3) knowing how Pharaoh would react ended up being glorified in Pharaoh anyway. WOW. The key factor in this is GRACE. If you choose GRACE and receive Christ, you've made the FIRST BEST choice in a binary situation. Afterward, the more GRACE choices you make, the more aligned you become with God's will but because you have made the initial GRACE choice to trust in Christ for salvation, God has more to work with to get you more aligned. This the equation is PERFECTLY balanced because while we are deeply flawed in our flesh God is PERFECT.
Eph 1:11-In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.
followed up with Eph 1:12 TO THE END that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. Who were the first to hope in Christ?
@@Mark-oo3om You tell me. But the point is the second part of 1:11. Does God work all things after the counsel of his own will? Yes/No
@@mcgragor1 yes he works all things, he doesn’t CAUSE all things. It just means that God will work to bring good out of the evil of man, it by. I means he causes all things.
@@bigdogboos1 That's not what the verse says. It mentions nothing about man's evil and yes it doesn't say "cause", but it doesn't need to. ALL things means all things.
With that said, I am not a strict Calvinist as I don't know how our responsibility and His Providence meet, but I am not going to deny one side over the other and if I had to make a choice, we must never put the cart before the horse, so I'd have to go with God's Providence over all things. God-bless
@@mcgragor1 use the KJV and you'll never run into issues of having the wrong words in your bible
Excellent, then you happened upon I lost a best friend and pastor over me trying to explain this very issue about his Calvinism
excellent
I am hoping to show an aspect of this that seemingly most overlook. The power of God's Word to cut like a two edged sword to the very depths of man's soul and convict seems to be left out of this 'debate' Leaving out this most important fact is dangerously saying God'sWord cannot save this person or that person.. It is capable of saving anyone and everyone as Jesus died for the sins of the whole world.. We are humans operating with a very limited mental ability, compared to what we originally were equipped with before Adam and Eve sinned. And especially compared to God and His ability and knowledge. His thoughts and mind are unmeasurably above mans ability.. God is not involved with time as we are. Time was part of the curse and states a beginning and an end. God however is everywhere at once. He is in the past, the present and the future and everywhere.. We cannot comprehend that, as it is eternity past and future and man always relates eternal to time. Being chosen and being predestined are truths we should believe. God knew before creation. Foreknowledge does not eliminate free will. Also to be believed is Man having free will to accept or reject God's free offer of salvation by faith. . Again we can't comprehend both of these but God wants us to believe both. When we receive our glorified body and state we surely will say "Oh-yes, now I understand" God is pleased with the choice of FAITH by the individual, which are those that are convicted by hearing the scriptures, and then realize their need for the Savior and then they will choose to exercise faith. These are the ones that God wants with Him for eternity, those who chose Him when He called.
Ask yourself....why would Man need a Suffering, Dying, Buried, Risen Savior...if Salvation and even every move of life....were predetermined!!!
Casting sovereignty as a form of management style is not only brilliant, but actually matches up with Jesus’ parables of the talents and the pounds: in both cases, the Master who handed out His assets to his servants departs for a far country, making a micromanagement style of governance quite impossible.
Indeed, the purpose of Jesus is to express the image of His Father perfectly, and these stewardship parables have always cited the absence of the Master while on that far journey as a symbol of Jesus’ ascension to Heaven and His long absence from us. In this way, Jesus revealed His Father’s management style.
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Personalizing Calvinist Sovereignty:
John Piper’s house burns down. He meets with the insurance adjuster, and is surprised that she is a member of his congregation. They walk through the ruins of his house, and she verifies it was a true accident.
She gets in her car, turns to her pastor, and says “We are not paying your claim.”
“WHY NOT?” Piper cries out.
She starts her car, grins at him, and yells out “ACT OF GOD!’ As she backs out of the driveway.
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God is sovereign over ALL things meaning He needs nothing outside of or added to Himself! In order to do anything. He can use what was intended for evil and turn it into our good. IF all things are predetermined by Him,He has lied about having no darkness in Him. Which we know there is NONE. He does not tempt us to sin or excuse it.
I can get the predestination and free will together, but I'm interested how they get the idea that God determines all my decisions.
They take passages about God determining things and conclude that that is how he always operates.
Nowhere in scripture does it say that unbelievers are predestined to salvation. Absolutely, positively nowhere. But what does it say what believers are predestined to and for ?. The Bible doe speak to that.
@@makedisciples8653 I think the predestination is that the lost sheep of the house of israel were predestined to be brought back into the fold.
@@k3630 please explain. The lost sheep (all of them,) have turned to their OWN way. Isaiah 53:6. BUT believers are predestined!
@@makedisciples8653 Ezekiel 34: 11-16
The sheep were scattered, but they will be returned. Those of the Faith of Abraham. Which is us.
Jesus said He only came for the lost sheep of the house of israel.
That was predestined
This is a good example of the sovereignty God dictated by mans philosophy. Avoiding the explicit texts of scripture discussing Gods rule and reign and using irrelevant examples doesn’t bring glory to God. In fact it diminishes it. Grace and peace Leighton! Keep pressing into Him brotha!
In his sovereignty, God chose to give men and angels freewill. He wants hearts not robots. Luke 13:34 shows the hurt Jesus felt when his elect Jews rejected his will.
God decides what his sovereignty looks like, not men.
This has been enlightening. I am a Calvinist in regards to salvation. I am absolutely a presumpasitionalist, 5 point Tulip, but don’t have the God moves every molecule view of sovereignty, I’m not okay with the idea that God Causes evil, he ORDAINS it for good, but he doesn’t Cause it
We do have free will and God is sovereign despite it. Simple.
@Johnny Don - God creates the potential for evil, the choice. It is not the nature of God to create evil. Otherwise Gen 1 would be a very different chapter.
Man thru rebellion, sin, brought evil into a perfect world. God did not. Jesus, thru His sacrifice, became the correction of man's sin. He is Savior, not evil. He will judge evil.
@Johnny Don - There is nothing in that verse I disagree with at all. Without God's Word there would be nothing, thru Him everything is possible. But I guess you have to have an example of your verse in action in scripture. God cannot be just and create actual evil for the purpose of evil. But He can allow it and punish it because of our choices and still be just.
When God judged Israel many times scripture says "He is a terrible God". Why does it say that? Because to Israel at that time it would definitely be terrible what God was going to do to them. It doesn't mean He is terrible. His judgment was fair because they chose the evil.
And again in Gen 1 it is clear He made everything good and said on day 6 everything was very good. Man messed it up, God did not make the evil. He made the possibility of evil thru our choices. Otherwise we would never know love. If you cannot love by free will, it's not love. God made it possible for little children to be horribly hurt, He didn't cause that evil. We will be judged by our actions, our inviting evil into this world. We can only do that because God enables us to choose evil.
Just before the flood God says judgment is coming because "the imagination of their hearts is only evil continually". God did not make the evil. He was disgusted by their thoughts and almost seems like He was shocked by its intensity.
Apparently it is impossible to represent a Calvanist accurately, even using the words of the various leaders verbatim. If hearing your soteriology described makes you want to deny its the right version, perhaps you recognize your view is bankrupt but by the irresistible decree of God just can't accept the truth.
@@matt_h_27 These statements don't make any sense because *Piper is being quoted in the context of answering such questions* . Yet its being called misrepresentation. The only way what you said makes any sense is if Piper gives different answers talking to Leighton, i.e. recognizes his views are wrong so alters it but keeps calling it Calvinism. "God extends the offer of salvation to all men, and they are responsible to accept it? That _just is_ Calvinism!" This covert tactic out will be the only way Calvinism's proponents will be able to salvage the ruins of their soteriology without defacing it. Better to just be humble and confess its wrong.
Thir7ySev3n At that point, they should just embrace Arminianism rather than Calvinism.
@@matt_h_27 You just doubled down on the same error. The authorities of Calvinism are what Leighton represents (either directly quoting or playing their recordings) and then responds to. Thus your response would have to presume the pretense of the sources' Calvinism or be a meaningless complaint (about understanding what _actual Calvinists_ teach and believe) .
You then employ an argument from authority that you essentially can't refute Calvinism to Calvinists unless you believe Calvinism. By your logic, any world religion or even satanism could deny any refutation presented to their worldview, dismissing everything as a misunderstanding and reminding you that they know their own religion better than you do.
@@matt_h_27 been eatin' out the hands of your lucky charms agin, hey -- i taught you much better, boy
Well said
Dr Flowers, could you please do a lesson on how determinism is different from fatalism. I know both you and Calvinist's see these as separate beliefs but I'm not quite following how. Thank you
Also could you do a lesson on your perspective of God and time. I see God as outside of time, so although He communicates to us in a sense of time, He is not 'in' time, so His foreknowledge is not 'looking forward' as generally taught, but just what 'is' to Him. Would this be a correct interpretation?
A lot of people have it backwards. It's Satan who wants to control, not God. That's why when people aren't saved they think freedom is sinning and doing whatever they want to do and when people are saved they realize that sin really is bondage and turning away from sin is true freedom.
You are completely backwards, to be free is to be a slave to Christ.
@@timlamb1156 - To be a slave to Christ requires turning away from sin.
We die to Self daily and follow Jesus, in a permanent role of service to Him(bond servant), but Scripture is clear we are no longer a slave, but a child, and if a child, then an heir of God through Christ.
“About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad-in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls- she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
So Keith H, you are Equating evil acts to the work of the Holy Spirit. Be careful.
It means what it says... God chooses his elect...
@@khudson8547election to service (work), not individual salvation....
Yes! This is what I have been feeling about God's sovereignty. Yes he is sovereign but we have different definitions of sovereignty. Thanks for this great video. And the A.W. Tozer quote! 🔥
What is written:
"The Pharisees & Scribes *REJECTED* the *WILL of God* for themselves by not being baptized by John." -Luke 7:30
What Calvinism teaches:
"The Pharisees & Scribes *FULFILLED* the *sovereign will* of God for themselves by not being baptized by John."
You have made a nice strawman, no Calvinist says such simplistic things, this is a serious joke without any exegesis of the text.
@@timlamb1156 -- Your teaching of God's sovereign, *Immutable Decree* logically demands the statement I have written.
Strawman avoided.
God bless you.
Tim lamb is the divine decree eternal?
Is the divine decree universal?
Is the divine decree immutable?
Is the divine decree unconditional?
Is the divine decree efficacious?
According to Calvinism the answer to all of the above is YES!
What then is left that escapes the divine decree?
timffoster except there are no 2 wills of God, there is no contradiction with God.
@@primeobjective5469
It looks something like this in a logical formula
1. God is omniscient
2. God is omnipotent
3. God has a will
4. God sometimes intervenes to effectuate his will.
5. Which leads to the question of when does God not intervene? When it leads to effectuate his will.
Who cares if God is controlling Satan’s moves “on the Chess board.” What matters is that God has already won, is in control, and sovereignly allows every move according to His word.
If my boss is fully in control, allows me to do something, puts his review seal on it, and could easily have done it himself, could I say he made it happen? Maybe. Depends on how I am using words.
Does soteriology hang it's hat on John 3:16 as the salvation message?
AMEN!! Absolutely!! Very well explained, God bless u!
Great video Dr. Flowers 👍