Yeah this is the time I have heard the SAE numbers explained in nuanced detail. I had been wondering how it was possible for oil to get thicker at higher temperatures. This explanation makes total sense of all that.
@@themotoroilgeek. Hi I just found your channel. Great info. I am running a 331 stroker small block ford. I live in southern Calif. I always wonder what oil should I run. It’s a week end worrior and car cruise meets. I don’t race it. I used Valvoline racing 20-50. Is that too thick for my application. Running flat tappet hydraulic cam. Can I get away with a thinner viscosity or stick with 20-50. I don’t use ZDDP additive. It says it’s in the oil. Thanks looking forward to your recommendation 👍🏼
@@luckyluciano4968 Racing oil is designed for horsepower at the expense of wear. No racing team runs a motor more than 1,000 miles without rebuilding it. Never use racing oil in an engine you want to last further than 1,000 miles. It doesn't have all of the anti-wear additives you need.
just an FYI; in Alaska we glue a 150watt, 120volt heating pad on the bottom of the oil pan and plug in for a couple of hours before starting. Helps limit engine wear.
A hot water heating element inside the pan just before the pick up works well, although it requires customising. Warms oil quickly and even after starting it helps warm engine up quicker. Surprised more vehicles don't have an oil pick up designed around a heating element. I suppose glow plugs could also be used, although the tip does get red hot.
Back when I was a wee lad in Upstate NY, I remember my folks taking their car into the garage to get the oil changed, the radiator serviced and snow tires installed. I also remember 30 weight HD oil and that was a big deal. I appreciate your ability to take technical subject matter and break it down into something the average person can understand. I was in tech for nearly 40 years and it was something I had to do on a daily basis, so it is appreciated when I see a subject matter expert impart his knowledge with skill.
There's no "best" oil. Just like there's no "best" screwdriver or "best" hammer. Which one is best for you depends on what you need it to do. In the case of the hammer, do you need to drive railroad spikes or repair a pair of fine Italian shoes? That will determine whether a 9 pound sledgehammer or a fine Cobbler's hammer is "the best" for you. Same thing with motor oils. Do you want maximum protection from wear? Maximum horsepower/performance? Under arctic conditions? Under Sahara Desert conditions?
48 Year CLS formulator here very good info thanks to dispelling a lot of myths. Plese leave the FTIR and Spectro pages a little longer so I can read them LOL.
Im glad he spoke on this and the actual procedure behind assigning these grades and noting its not weight of oil. Its another reason why i always never put much stock in these cold pour tests to measure which oil flows better in an engine as there is rotational force or flow calculated. When and engine is cold and you have the friction of the oil pump, crankshaft and all other rotational components of engine thats a better way to calculate imo. I really am glad i found this channel
Am I the only one who after seeing just one of this guys videos, has become obsessed with every video that he's posted? The knowledge he has is amazing.
As a teenager I put 20W50 in my Dodge Daytona because at the time it was the only fully synthetic oil Walmart had. When winter rolled around my car wouldn't start because how thick it had become. I learned an important lesson back in 1989, no damage done, but quickly changed the oil to a thinner blend.
What state? I'm in corrupt blue WA and I had an 85' Dodge 600 and 89' Daytona CS, both turbos. I had no problems getting 10w30 full synthetics at Walmart in the 80s, or ever. Ran 15k OCIs with a filter halfway. Wanted an inter cooler added to the Dodge 600 and they insisted on a new head gasket, they informed me my engine was spotless.
Lake, you threw some terms around that I haven’t heard since trade school(40 + years ago). I love listening to the technical side. Thanks, and keep them coming. Rick
Growing up before multi-grade oils we always called single grade oil as Weight. Before your time when the Pump Jocky would check the oil and water and he say "your low on oil, what weight are you useing".
This is easily one of my favorite videos! I want to learn more about oils and this type of video really helps with that! Of course, I doubt too many people would watch this, which is sad as they all want their engines to last a long time, but don't see this knowledge as useful. Thank you!
Excellent tutorial! Thank-you. My father and I have always been a little obsessed with getting optimum lubrication in our vehicles. I live in southern California so my oil of choice has been 10W-30 pure synthetic. Back in the late 70's through early 80's, I used an oil called "Arco Graphite" in both my cars. It seemed to work ok except it was black, making it hard to visually inspect. As I recall from 50 years ago, my '72 Yamaha 650 (being air cooled) specified 20W-50. I've always trusted the owner's manual when it comes to my selection of oil viscosity.
In North Dakota on my 1985 Landcruiser 2F I6. with 318K Mi. i have always used when i can 5w30, and now 0w30 or 0w40, in the winter from Sep- May. I also have a circulation tank coolant heater running 78percent antifreeze 22percent water. good for -80deg F. A silicone pad oil pan heater "" ON a timer"". and a battery blanket heater. Fires up every time like it is 60deg F. when it is -40, -50Deg F. Thanks for explaining this so well. Tom in ND.
@4:02 answers the question I could not get answered my whole life. My question was does an oil viscosity value at high temps exceed the viscosity at low temps. Now I know! THANK YOU! For my whole life, people explained both numbers were for viscosity, but it never made sense to me that the higher number was for hotter (less viscous!) oil. Thank you!!!!!! In science and engineering, you should always be working in consistent units. These double numbers violate that rule but nobody ever seems to mention it when they "go into detail".
I'm here from Stapleton42. I just love your enthusiasm when you are in his videos!! You and your dad are frickin awesome!! Now I'm going to watch all of your videos and I'm also switching to Driven Oil just because of you for my flat tappet 351w. Amsoil is almost $20 a damn quart for that ZROD Oil.
What a great wealth of knowledge! Thank you for sharing this with us! It is quite interesting to now understand what the differences of motor numbers really mean!
Great video sir. My father built a log splitter in the 70’s and put a 1950’s Wisconsin 2 cylinder on it. Hand crack start. Run SAE 30 for engine and oil bath air filter. Air cooled engine. Still running strong.
Back in the early 60's I had a 1952 Pontiac straight 8 engine. That had a main bearing knock, I used a 40w oil with a can of STP, even in California, at 7:00am. the engine would not turn over fast enough to start, but open the hood and let the sun warm the engine. till about 12:00 pm noon. The engine would start right up. But now with the new battery chemistry, it would have started up anyway. Great Video, THANKS
I remember those days! I used SAE 40 during the summer in my 61 Buick, but if there was a really cold morning, it would crank too slowly to reliably start, yet later in the day, it would start right up every time.
The more I watch the more I’m convinced I may should switch to 5-30 from 0-20. In South Carolina the lowest it gets is 20 degrees in dead of winter. Or maybe use a 0-30.
There are thinner and thicker 5w-30's. They are not all the same. Pennzoil purebase oils, these made from natural gas, are known to be on the thinner side of their specs. In fact many criticize them as being too thin for their designation. South Carolina has very moderate winters, nothing compared to northern states where a 0w-20 would be needed in winter.
Yeah it's too warm to go from 5w30 to 0w20. Plus the majority of time the engine is warm from running, so the oil is going to be at 30. 20 is going to be too thin. I had many cars that used 5w30 in the winter in Chicago, it would be -20 or lower, they were fine.
You could try mixing the same brand and type of oil half 5w30 and half 0w20. So that comes out to 3w25ish? There’s people mixing oils all the time with no issues and every additive is messing with the oil as well and there’s no issue. If you want slightly more protection it’s a good option.
Thank u. So we'll explained. This is the way my mind works and all the stuff I've thought about through the years but never really had answers to. Thanks again... U have found a great 'niche' for all of us engine/machine/mad-scientists. Thanks again
Honda Del Sol recommended oil is 5w-30 Rebuilt engine less than 80k miles ago, runs strong, smooth, etc. 1 thing we did was put on a cooler thermostat. I Live in California near the bay where temperatures are always within 40F degrees to a max of 95 degrees. Rarely does it go over 85 degrees here. Inland it can definitely go over 100. I run 5w-30 because it runs so much better and gets better gas mileage. They had me running 10w-40 before the engine rebuild. and I stuck with it, even after the rebuild, out of habit, until 1 day I read the car should be run on 5w-30. Once I switched back to 5w-30 the car ran so much smoother and noticeably the MPG Went up... Just watched your other video on temperature and downloaded the PDF with the Oil / temperature charts. I like 5w-30 but manager at O'Reilly's and Mechanic want me to run run 5w-30 High Mileage Valvoline synthetic blend with Lucus Oil Stabilizer or 10w-40. Which should I do? I am thinking High Mileage. I change my oil very regularly and only drive 10,000 miles yearly max. Note: Engine temperature Always stays just below the midline and alway has since rebuild. Which I Like.
That Lucas is killing your engine. Don’t do oil additives. Watch the oil geek video on the subject. He recommends using PEA fuel additives to keep the rings clean to prevent fuel dilution of the oil.
Yep! Lucas will look like spider webs on your valve train. It's kind of like picking up the first slice of xtra cheese pizza. Retains dirt (well ok, holds everything you want gone when you change oil).
I thought everyone knew the W was for winter, zero degrees C oil testing, it was 'common knowledge' among mechanics in UK in the 1980's and earlier When I attended a lecture for instructors in Florida 'trade school' I found almost none of the 130+ actually knew much at all about oils, Harley 'technicians' were particularly bad and didn't want to change anything from '30weight winter and 40 weight summer' The oil engineer actually told me 'American' oil companies were selling products 10~15 years behind Europe This was around 13~14 years ago when 'black death' advertising was being done by Castrol
Back in the day, we ran straight 50 weight motor oil in large radial aircraft engines. During winter, the engines needed extensive pre-heating to achieve the proper viscosity before starting the engines. I remember spilling some 50 weight on the ramp at -20F. After the spill cooled to -20F, I could be pick it up off the snow like a piece of coal.
@@TheHonestPeanut Have you ever played in -12 degree F weather? As a kid, we were not allowed to be inside, unless they were worried you would melt or blow away!
@@jeffreyyoung4104 played and worked, yeah. A few years ago I logged in -17 with wind. What's that have to do with using a non existent thing though? The OC called it "50 weight" which isn't actually a thing.
@@TheHonestPeanut OK, he used the common definition for viscosity, and it is known and understood to mean the same thing when you say weight. So when you go to the store to buy oil, and say you want 90 weight gear lube, everyone there will understand and grab the same bottle of lube.
@@jeffreyyoung4104 on a video that literally explains why it's wrong and what the correct meaning is. Either dude's thick as polar bear shit or an asshole. Either way it's a dumb comment.
Thanks for doing the research for anyone who is obtuse about engine oil knowledge. I do remember oil being just SAE 30 or a specific weight, mostly used for generator motors etc. Thanks goodness for Kendall chemist's giving the automotive engineers a better blueprint to design more efficient motors. Your passion for automotive knowledge is appreciated ✌🏽❤️
I recently acquired a replacement car with a BMW M47R diesel engine, it had been recently serviced but I had no information on what oil had been used I assume that it was the either a 15w,-40 or 10w-40 semi-synthetic which were BMW's original recommendations when this engine type in UK climate when this engine was introduced more than 20 years ago. I switched the engine to a more modern 0w-40 full synthetic meeting BMW's LL-04 standard which I know from.experience works well in these engines. The beneficial effect on fuel consumption surprised me. Normal UK spring weather overnight temperatures just above freezing typical ambient temperature at engine start 7 or 8 centigrade. From.cold start vehicle is used daily for a 6 mile outbound journey which is all up hill and a 6 mile return journey 2 hours later. After the oil change fuel consumption immediately improved by between 3 and 5.%
Best explanation I have seen. This video needs to be seen by all the oil experts out there who think the oil starts as a 10 weight cold then thickens to a 30 weight hot. Same goes for those who use 15W40 diesel motor honey in their gasoline engines that call for a thinner oil. This seems to be very popular these days. Do a video about zinc in oil. There is a decades long belief that more is better. What is your opinion about someone dumping a zinc additive on top of your already carefully formulated package?
1952. Jersey Standard introduces Uniflo motor oil, the first multigrade motor oil recommended for both summer and winter use. Dr. John Ellis founded Valvoline in 1866 when he discovered the lubricating properties of distilled crude oil, formulating the world's first petroleum-based lubricant.
Thank you for the load of knowledge regarding terms often used improperly. 9:27 table is very interesting, I put it in perspective with a modern oil like Motul X-Clean GEN2 which provides 3.9 HTHS@150°C while being 5W40.
I remember learning in high school automotive class back in the 90's that the "W" meant winter. That always stuck with me and I get a little smile on my face every time I hear someone say they're looking for a specific weight oil. I would correct them, but I know better :)
Now I know why I'm running 15w40 grade in my Toyota 1nzfe. When I'm living in the Equator in stop go traffic where the maximum speed I get is 25 mph and the engine is operating hot all the time.
Thanks! They changed the scale! Viscosity is the resistance to flow. In the case of the Centipoise scale, that resistance is initially getting oil to flow from STATIC conditions at "room temperature" when oils are "thickest". The lower this scale, the easier to initially flow oil so dry parts can be lubed quickly after cranking. Think of sliding a weight up a ramp, initially overcoming the larger coefficient of STATIC friction. Once the weight is moving up the ramp, less force can be applied to keep it moving, much like KINEMATIC Viscosity, measured in Centistokes -- the resistance to flow when the fluid is already moving. Said resistance to flow is important (especially with hotter engine oil temperatures when oil is "thinnest") to leave it where it needs to lubricate before "slipping" away.
Thanks Lake. I ride a V twinn all year around.. Mostly. I live in Northern Utah. One of my bikes calls for 20w 40 semi-syn. I used 10w 40 semi-syn. during the coldest months.
The youtube algorithm brought me there and I'm glad because it's informative. I do have a question, my bmw engine (s54b32) requires 10w60 oil, which is pretty thick in my opinion. Based on information I could find online, BMW spec'd this oil due to the recall of the first year or two the engines started to have rod bearing failure due to the smaller rod bearing surface area having a redline of 8k RPM which initially had a factory 5w30 oil spec. This engine is known to have increased rod bearing wear due to the smaller rod bearing surface area so it's a recommended maintenance service interval of 80-100k miles to have the rod bearings replaced. Now there is a lot of discussion in the BMW forums regarding the oil viscosity and theories that BMW spec'd this weight of oil as a BAND-aid for the root cause (smaller bearing surface area). I've made the switch to redline 5w50 at the recommendation of others who claim to have experience that it's a much better oil for the engine. Looking at the data sheets, the viscosity at 40C and 100C is similar to a comparable 10w60 (liqui moly). The HTHS is over 3.5, 5 to be exact for redline 5w50. Does this mean that the redline 5w50 has the same characteristics as the 10ww60 (liqui moly) with better cold cranking value (5W) and better oil flow (50)? I hope I'm understanding that correctly. Thanks!
Great question! Yes, the 5W-50 Redline is a better option than the 10W-60. We never see a 10W-60 still in the 60 grade range after use. They either shear to a 50 or 40 grade.
As a long time mechanic, I've struggled with this. What are your suggestions in one of my scenario's? Similar to what you touched on at the end, environment dictates chemistry. I'm in a tropical climate with an older mazda as my kick around daily. In America my exact same 20 year old engine has a specified oil of 0w-20. If I go onto each individual oil manufacturer site in my country. Each one recommends a different specification? Anywhere from 0w-20 mobile to 5w-40 and everything in between. In summer, the temperature ranges anywhere between 18C at night to low 30'sC on average but the occasional 40C. 1, Does the winter rating matter at all in my climate if it's always 30 to 60C!!! Above those winter ratings. 2, Why does environment matter to the hot rating (even in a hot environment) if the engine cooling system is adequate. It should only ever be around the temperature it is tested at 100C. It pretty common here due to climate. If an engine asks for a 30, most will go to a 40. Are they just wasting fuel for no real gain in protection? 3, My confusion comes from the climate scales which suggest for ambient temperatures in my area. I would be nuts to run anything below a 40 in summer? Why does the ambient even matter if the rating is made at 100C, and the day to day putting around engine oil sits below that? Once at the same running temp. Other than the spec the factory has set for it's tolerance in the motor. Why does ambient temp even matter?
Id recommend installing an oil pressure gage if you want to go down in viscosity. take some oil pan temp readings from similar trips/different ambient temps and see how hot that oil is getting. no way id run a 0w20 in your climate. a 40 grade oil wouldn't be overkill either, especially with age and mileage.
The ambient mostly only matters for determining the Winter grade, 0w and 5w are so common because they cover any climate from the Arctic to the Sahara while having relatively little effect on the Summer grade. Typically, manufacturers don't really care about Winter grades in hot climates, thus they might spec 10w30 for a hot region while the US spec might be 0w-30 to ensure it's safe for the relatively few customers who experience extremely low temps who need the low viscosity. They used to run 'straight weight' 30 oil during warm seasons, with no Winter rating (i.e. just SAE 30 Oil instead of 5w30) when low temp performance wasn't a concern, and this is still common for race engines and small power equipment engines that only run in warm weather. The 'Summer' rating is what actually matters for engine design, fuel efficiency and wear protection and many countries spec higher viscosity oils than US/Europe because they may not have as strict emissions/efficiency requirements and because low winter rating oils are generally more expensive/premium compared to a 10w or 15w for the same Summer rating. Usually the important Oil spec is determined by the summer rating within a relatively narrow range (i.e. Manufacturer prefers 30 oil, though xW20 or xW40 perform similarly enough to be allowed/suggested to provide protection) with the Winter rating not really mattering when the Engine is running at the same hot temp everywhere. The environment does NOT matter for the summer rating like you thought. If a car suggests a 30 grade summer Oil, you won't hurt it with a 40 grade summer, but there's no reason to use it in a hot climate because as we established, the operating temp is regulated around 100c and using a higher summer viscosity is completely unnecessary. To help simplify multi-grade Oils, the 'real' or 'base' is the Winter rating, meaning a 0w30 Oil is a thinner Oil than a 10w-30, and the thinner oil with the same summer rating requires more additives (Polymers, etc) to achieve a given Summer viscosity rating. The higher Polymers content in wide-range Oils comes at the cost of somewhat worse protection (like high-shear or high-load lubrication as mentioned in this video) which is another main reason 'thicker' (higher Winter rating for same summer rating) Oils are suggested in different regions. It's critical to understand the the viscosity ratings are a range, meaning thinner Oils with more thickener additives have a slightly lower viscosity at the 100c reference than for instance a 15w-30 or especially just an SAE 30 oil with no thickener additives. It's a fairly narrow range meaning there won't be a huge difference for a certain summer rating, but the slightly lower viscosity will theoretically provide worse protection, leading to manufacturers preferring higher winter ratings in general when they can ignore the extreme cold viscosity performance. So, to sum it up, the Winter number is the actual Oil viscosity with high Polymer wide-range oils being much thinner at room and low temps and slightly thinner than narrower range, lower polymer oils at 100c with slightly worse protection. The caveat is that this assumes all the base Oils are high quality for the different grades and in general lower Winter rating oils tend to be a higher quality, often fully synthetic base oil versus 10w and 15w being cheaper with a lower quality Oil and thus it's assumed that 0w and 5w will last longer before degrading chemically in general, another main reason they're chosen as the spec when not required to offer more protection for customers who neglect oil changes. That's the basics on viscosity and protection but the best Oils are largely determined by the base oil quality and additives for anti-wear, cleaning, etc. Just go with the Summer rating for your engine and you can research the Oils with the best additives and highest refinement if you care enough beyond running the right viscosity.
I’d be interested in learning about ATF. I worked at New Process Gear years ago. We put ATF into transfer cases which is interesting because ATF is hydraulic oil. Transfer cases are not hydraulic like an automatic transmission is. Additionally, I did some cold synchronizer testing with mineral vs synthetic ATF. Differences were incredible. Great video, thank you.
Mobil Gargoyle Arctic C. Typically used in refrigeration compressors. I had to buy that oil for an old machine tool years ago. It was for a friction disk lined feed clutch on a Gray Planer. I think it is basically mineral oil. It would be interesting to hear an experts thoughts on the "Arctic" oils. Certainly not an SAE spec.
Since I ride my motorcycle year round, from the low teens to 100+, I see a deep rabbit hole of researching. Starting with going back to the owners manual.
Great content as always, I'm looking forward to your video on viscosity index. I have always avoided oils with wide viscosity spreads as much as ambient temperatures allow because of the problems viscosity modifiers have historically caused. I'm sure modern viscosity modifiers don't cause nearly as many problems as they did in the bad old days, but I still don't like the possibility of shearing, higher volatility, etc.
As i live in australia we never really get in the minus-0 maybe 2 or 3 degrees for a few days a year. I will definitely go a higher winter number than what im running my car on now as there is no need to be running a 5w 30 thanks Lake love your information that you share.
You are fantastic at explaining oil and how it works. I can think of no one else that I can trust more to provide useful information regarding oil than you. I think that you could do a great service in making a video regarding the ideal type of oil for use in an air-cooled riding lawnmower engine and its hydro gear transmission. There are virtually no videos out there to provide the level of expertise that you have regarding this matter. Evidently, many lawnmower engines are failing due to high heat. Can this be because of less zinc or other lacking additives in new oil formulas? Hydor gear transmissions call for a 20W/50 engine oil, but what would work best....a high zinc oil? Thanks for your videos. You are great.
I greatly enjoy the science and truth of the matter behind the hype and adds. Can you please discuss lubricity and metals in other machinery like firearms and tractors ect.. i know it may not be your specialty however there has got to be a ton of crossover and no one else cuts through the bs and marketing like you!
Thanks for this information. I thought I had a working knowledge, but I just learned I didn't even have my terms correct. One practical tip that I learned flying turbocharged airplanes (extremely expensive engines) is don't just shut down a turbo engine until the turbo cools. If the turbo is red hot and the oil pressure goes to zero, it will cook the oil in the turbo and lead to premature oil degradation as a small amount turns to charcoal at the 1400 degree turbo temp. Maybe cars keep circulating the oil for a time. IDK, but it seems like they should.
Wonderful explanation. It dispels a lot of the myths. Looking at the test table here: 09:21 , I see that for the W ratings, the "hottest" tests were performed at -10 degree C. Does that mean for a vehicles that are driven in tropical countries that never ever get below +15 degree C, the W rating is entirely irrelevant? I'm currently working overseas in a tropical country and there's a lot of myth about how 0W40 is better than 10W40, etc.. But going by what you have explained here, it really doesn't apply to climates that never gets below sub-zero Celsius.
Exactly! If the temperatures are never below freezing, then it is mostly irrelevant. The narrower the split between the number before the W and after the W, the more shear stable it will be.
@@themotoroilgeekdoes that mean I can use a monograde SAE 30 on my pickup which requires 5w-30 as per manufacturer specification? I live in the tropics where the temperature seldom goes down below 21 degrees C.
I would really appreciate it if you could elaborate more on the 0w40 vs 15w40 to talk in detail why the 40 weights get those types of special rules etc
I live in Puerto Rico and I’m going nutz over my new 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage asking for 0w-20 for all temp ranges (US Federal as well) 😵💫 But I’m concerned as to what going to our standard proven 5w-30 would do, other than robbing a couple of MPGs, which I don’t care for, I’m in for engine longevity. We’ve seen high oil consumption on engines calling for these grades for many years now (even with the 5w-20s), specially on Hyundai/Kia. Mixed with 7500-10000k miles OCIs recommendations, lots of seized engines due to low oil levels. Most mechanics and lube shops have opted for overfilling by at least half a quart on any engine asking for low grades. But, we also see some new engines last long sticking to the low viscosity oils, with no significant oil consumption between OC🤷🏼♂️. Most vehicles on the island do stop and go traffic, our highways aren’t that long, that is why when we buy used cars from the states with high millage, we have a saying “ahh… thats state miles, divide that in half, that car is new”. But a high millage local vehicle, is a no go, and by high millage we mean anything over 60k+ miles 😂
Hi, do you recommend me to use a 10w-30 or a 15w-40 in a 100k Miles vehicle? This in summer with temperatures between 30 to 40 celsius. Nice video and channel !!
This was very informative... I have been running 5w40 in my truck and was afraid that winter cold starts would be a bit too "thick". I've had a few -30f nights and quite a few -15f nights, so it is good to know the oil still flows good enough and isn't a block of gel that can't be pumped.
Hey there motor oil geek😅 it's great that you explain things in such technical terms but it would be nice at the end if you would just explain it in plain English for those of us that aren't geeky😮 we would really appreciate that❤
Thanks for the info as some idiots on UA-cam explained 20w50 oil viscosity increase from 20 to 50 when engine operation get hotter. Some say oil gets thinner with high mileage and some say it turns to sludge.
Well explained It is a difficult concept to explain to people. Nice one!….. Hey good point on the 8,12 overlap…look at the HTHS! I like to torque analogy on centpoise and the flow on centistokes. Can be very confusing to people But rewarding when it clicks!
love these videos. in my Diesel (Cummins 6.7) i would use a Rottela T6 10w30 in summer and in winter i'd drop to 5W as that was lowest available in T6. (i'm in northern canada and see -45C temps) my new truck runs 0W20 all year.
Dear Sir, I am an old man who has a 6.7 super duty diesel with 1/4m Miles It pulls my camper from lake to lake fishing or whatever. I start it every other day. I should keep it all in storage with good oil. I don't. When I am gone I won't care... P. S: I loved watching your dad.
Maybe someone can answer this question here. I've noticed for various cars the owners manual in the US will say one grade of oil while the same owners manual in another country will provide a list of other grade oils a person can use. Example, new land cruiser manual specifies 0w-20 only. While the Japanese manual lists 0w-20 as standard, but up to 10w-30 as also acceptable.
Great info. Now I'm wondering if a 5W-30, like my other vehicles call for, would work better in my '74 Ford FE 360. I've switched everything to full synthetic after watching all of these videos and seeing the science behind it.
Interestingly enough, aircraft engine oil has the dash before the W, so for example Aeroshell 15W-50 is written 15-W50 on the bottle. It might just be Shell that writes it that way.
I've been an AMSOIL dealer since...gulp...1975. And do you know what I've actually known about the products I've beeb selling? Other than what "the W" meant, absolutely 💯 % nothing. Yeah. I'm into your channel for the long term. Thank you.
The W designation does stand for winter. But it's used as the Exemplar of the oil being thinner when it's colder out which means it has a lower viscosity. A lower specific gravity, or, as the entire understanding comes to the conclusion that it is a lower weight. It doesn't matter what people think the letter stands for. It means the same thing.
Well Lake, I have been using 10W 30 in my 3.8 liter engine in my van for almost as long as I have had my old van. Yet with it burning oil, it might be advantageous to step down to the 5W 30 the manufacturer recommends for my jalopy, even though my onboard information center claims that I am getting around 19 miles per gallon. Which that is with new two years ago E3 platinum spark plugs, plug wires, fuel filter last year. Essentially everything has been changed with regards to a tune up. Now I do only change my oil every 10,000 to 12,000 miles, because it is all highway miles, which my owners manual definitely allows for longer periods between oil changes, which includes oil filter change.
@@themotoroilgeek Okay I will definitely look into doing that and looking into getting an sample test to get an analysis of my engines health aside from what you are alluding to in your response.
The PCV valve needs to be changed on those engines regularly or they, like most engines, will burn oil. I change mine every other oil change and it keeps the oil use at a minimum.
Back in the day, W always meant Winter. SAE 10W and SAE 20W were winter-grade oils, SAE 20, 30, 40, and 50 were summer-grade oils. The difference between SAE 20W and SAE 20 was in the temperature it's viscosity was measured.
@@jamesbosworth4191 I'm also from the 70s doing oil changes. Not one mechanic, auto store rep, or gear head friend used Winter when discussing the viscosity of oil. Our language has synonyms, doesn't matter if you like it or not.
@@lonniebeal6032We are talking about Multi Viscosity oil, such as 10W - 40, 20W - 50, etc., and single grade with a W after the number, such as SAE 10W, SAE 20W, SAE 5W. These contexts, the W does mean Multi-Vis when the oil is cold. For Single Viscosity, we talking about winter-grade single viscosity oils - SAE 5W, SAE 10W, SAE 20W. These viscosities are specifically made for use in cold conditions, thus, back in the day, there was both SAE 20 oil and SAE 20W oil. They were not the same, the difference being the temperature they were rated at. In these contexts, the W did indeed mean winter grade or cold, not weight.
I use Mannol 0W-40, so when my engine is cold it will flow at 0W but as it warms it will be 40...I have seen people test flow of 0W-40, 5W-40 & 10W-40 and at room temperature the 0W flowed the fastest...
I’m still hearing people who don’t know what “cold” pressure means in a tire. HINT: it is unrelated to the human sensation of coldness. EX: a tire can be at cold pressure on the very hottest day in the Mojave Desert.
TMOG, could you discuss the trade off between oil shearing over time, which lowers the grade, and sludge build up over the, which increases grade. In the old days in a warm climate (Houston) I used 10W40 in my 280z. It used a quart of oil between oil changes and I would top it off with 50 weight to offset presumed shear degradation. Seemed like a good idea, but was it, given that weight increases with mileage due to sludge and other reasons?
In my 1993 Ford Crown Victoria and 1986 Olds Cutlass Ciera when I used 10W30 it took 4000 km for the oil to get black. If I used 5w30 it only took 2000km to turn black. In the owners manual for my 1994 Ford Thunderbird the owner's manual says 5W30 but the factory service manual says 10W30. Why?
@@themotoroilgeek If I use 10W30 in the thunderbird no oil burns. If I use 5w30 in the thunderbird it burns a quart after 1500 miles. The oil spec for my brother 2006 Ranger is 5w20. The Hayne Manuel says 10w30. When the truck was getting 5W20 it was burning a quart every 200 miles. Now that it gets 10w30 it still burns a little bit of oil but not like before.
I doubt that these guys will answer things like this due to liabilities. Check your owners manual and a viscosity chart. If your car only allows for 0w20, I'd run Redline in the summer, and any full synthetic on sale in the cooler months. I didn't suggest Amsoil in case you have a warranty, they weren't willing to pay for some of the certifications from what I've read. I say Redline because it's a group IV oil, and has the highest anti-wear additives I've seen so far. Except for racing oils which don't belong in street cars.
GDI engines seem to be all the rage these days. The type and viscosity of the oil and something called "scuff resistance" seem to be very important in a properly operating GDI engine. Would sure like to get your take on this subject and which oils are best suited for this purpose.
Due to liability issues, he won't answer. GDI motors are likely to have oil dilution sooner than port injection. Always full synthetics, check your owners manual for choice for hotter temps. Either get an oil analysis for a set of say 5k miles and then decide.
Finally someone that gets it 100% right. Best explanation ever. Smart man
Thank you sir!
Yeah this is the time I have heard the SAE numbers explained in nuanced detail. I had been wondering how it was possible for oil to get thicker at higher temperatures. This explanation makes total sense of all that.
Yes he understands, and has knowledge , of what. He is explaining.
@@themotoroilgeek. Hi I just found your channel. Great info. I am running a 331 stroker small block ford. I live in southern Calif. I always wonder what oil should I run. It’s a week end worrior and car cruise meets. I don’t race it. I used Valvoline racing 20-50. Is that too thick for my application. Running flat tappet hydraulic cam. Can I get away with a thinner viscosity or stick with 20-50. I don’t use ZDDP additive. It says it’s in the oil. Thanks looking forward to your recommendation 👍🏼
@@luckyluciano4968 Racing oil is designed for horsepower at the expense of wear. No racing team runs a motor more than 1,000 miles without rebuilding it. Never use racing oil in an engine you want to last further than 1,000 miles. It doesn't have all of the anti-wear additives you need.
I love these longer-form presentations. Good knowledge is being handed down here.
Glad you like them!
just an FYI; in Alaska we glue a 150watt, 120volt heating pad on the bottom of the oil pan and plug in for a couple of hours before starting. Helps limit engine wear.
i tried it . ehhh not so good . but i live in FLORIDA😮
Yup oil pan heaters have been around for a decades. Especially on air cooled engines. The trick is to not over heat the oil or you destroy it
A hot water heating element inside the pan just before the pick up works well, although it requires customising. Warms oil quickly and even after starting it helps warm engine up quicker. Surprised more vehicles don't have an oil pick up designed around a heating element. I suppose glow plugs could also be used, although the tip does get red hot.
Thats a damn good idea!
I Finland I have 2000W block heater and engine is 50C at start.
I feel like a total nerd but I love how this guy explains oils engineering and terms. Great video and you’ve got a new subscriber now
Thank you! We are all about the oil nerd vibe, LOL
@@themotoroilgeekwhat happens to oil viscosity when we add blue devil stop leak additive to oil in winter???? Thx
@@letmethinkv great question. Some of those products can raise the viscosity significantly, which can be detrimental in winter cold start conditions.
@@themotoroilgeek if you can test this specific blue devil product ....it will be great thx
My wife just shakes her head at me, but I can’t get enough of these videos.
I've been in the automotive trade for more than 30 years, 4 years away from retirement I finally learn what the numbers really mean.........
Thanks for watching!
Back when I was a wee lad in Upstate NY, I remember my folks taking their car into the garage to get the oil changed, the radiator serviced and snow tires installed. I also remember 30 weight HD oil and that was a big deal.
I appreciate your ability to take technical subject matter and break it down into something the average person can understand. I was in tech for nearly 40 years and it was something I had to do on a daily basis, so it is appreciated when I see a subject matter expert impart his knowledge with skill.
Thanks!
There was a reason it was invented in Bradford, PA by AMALIE.
I'm kind of an "oil geek" myself, a natural outgrowth from wanting the best for my machines. I love your presentations.
There's no "best" oil. Just like there's no "best" screwdriver or "best" hammer. Which one is best for you depends on what you need it to do. In the case of the hammer, do you need to drive railroad spikes or repair a pair of fine Italian shoes? That will determine whether a 9 pound sledgehammer or a fine Cobbler's hammer is "the best" for you.
Same thing with motor oils. Do you want maximum protection from wear? Maximum horsepower/performance? Under arctic conditions? Under Sahara Desert conditions?
48 Year CLS formulator here very good info thanks to dispelling a lot of myths. Plese leave the FTIR and Spectro pages a little longer so I can read them LOL.
Thanks, will do!
Im glad he spoke on this and the actual procedure behind assigning these grades and noting its not weight of oil. Its another reason why i always never put much stock in these cold pour tests to measure which oil flows better in an engine as there is rotational force or flow calculated. When and engine is cold and you have the friction of the oil pump, crankshaft and all other rotational components of engine thats a better way to calculate imo. I really am glad i found this channel
Am I the only one who after seeing just one of this guys videos, has become obsessed with every video that he's posted? The knowledge he has is amazing.
Thank you so much!
This was so good. Should have been trending at release!!
Thank you!
I could listen to Lake Speed Jr discuss car topics all day long.
Thanks!
Simply the best explanation I have come across on what for example 0W-20 actually means.
Well done!
Thank you!
I have a Toyota Camry four-cylinder they say oh 20 can I put in 5-30 it gets down to about 15° here been up to 105 during the summer
It means water lol
@@daveking4272yes 5-30 is fine and that’s lowest I would run not that 0-20 crap
As a teenager I put 20W50 in my Dodge Daytona because at the time it was the only fully synthetic oil Walmart had. When winter rolled around my car wouldn't start because how thick it had become. I learned an important lesson back in 1989, no damage done, but quickly changed the oil to a thinner blend.
What state? I'm in corrupt blue WA and I had an 85' Dodge 600 and 89' Daytona CS, both turbos. I had no problems getting 10w30 full synthetics at Walmart in the 80s, or ever. Ran 15k OCIs with a filter halfway. Wanted an inter cooler added to the Dodge 600 and they insisted on a new head gasket, they informed me my engine was spotless.
@@lonniebeal6032 Iowa.
Lake, you threw some terms around that I haven’t heard since trade school(40 + years ago). I love listening to the technical side. Thanks, and keep them coming. Rick
Thanks!
Growing up before multi-grade oils we always called single grade oil as Weight. Before your time when the Pump Jocky would check the oil and water and he say "your low on oil, what weight are you useing".
Ahh, that's where that synonym for Winter came from. I remember using SAE30 in the70s...
So the "W" stands for Wiscosity. Got it.
Love it 🤠👍🏻
ahh, another Synonym, good job.
Ya I need a drink still don't know what Fing oil to use after half a dozen vids
This is easily one of my favorite videos!
I want to learn more about oils and this type of video really helps with that! Of course, I doubt too many people would watch this, which is sad as they all want their engines to last a long time, but don't see this knowledge as useful.
Thank you!
Excellent tutorial! Thank-you. My father and I have always been a little obsessed with getting optimum lubrication in our vehicles. I live in southern California so my oil of choice has been 10W-30 pure synthetic. Back in the late 70's through early 80's, I used an oil called "Arco Graphite" in both my cars. It seemed to work ok except it was black, making it hard to visually inspect. As I recall from 50 years ago, my '72 Yamaha 650 (being air cooled) specified 20W-50. I've always trusted the owner's manual when it comes to my selection of oil viscosity.
In North Dakota on my 1985 Landcruiser 2F I6. with 318K Mi. i have always used when i can 5w30, and now 0w30 or 0w40, in the winter from Sep- May. I also have a circulation tank coolant heater running 78percent antifreeze 22percent water. good for -80deg F. A silicone pad oil pan heater "" ON a timer"". and a battery blanket heater. Fires up every time like it is 60deg F. when it is -40, -50Deg F. Thanks for explaining this so well. Tom in ND.
@4:02 answers the question I could not get answered my whole life. My question was does an oil viscosity value at high temps exceed the viscosity at low temps. Now I know! THANK YOU! For my whole life, people explained both numbers were for viscosity, but it never made sense to me that the higher number was for hotter (less viscous!) oil. Thank you!!!!!! In science and engineering, you should always be working in consistent units. These double numbers violate that rule but nobody ever seems to mention it when they "go into detail".
Glad it helped!
I'm here from Stapleton42. I just love your enthusiasm when you are in his videos!! You and your dad are frickin awesome!! Now I'm going to watch all of your videos and I'm also switching to Driven Oil just because of you for my flat tappet 351w. Amsoil is almost $20 a damn quart for that ZROD Oil.
Thanks!
What a great wealth of knowledge! Thank you for sharing this with us! It is quite interesting to now understand what the differences of motor numbers really mean!
This is a great channel - I am always very thankful for every new video!
Glad you enjoy it!
Thank you, I am always checking if you have more video's.
More to come!
I usually ran a 10W-30 in my mowers but based off of what I have learned from you, I switched over to 5W-30 synthetic.
Great video sir. My father built a log splitter in the 70’s and put a 1950’s Wisconsin 2 cylinder on it. Hand crack start. Run SAE 30 for engine and oil bath air filter. Air cooled engine. Still running strong.
Thank you. I've commented about this multiple times on videos and people call me wrong. I learned about this 20 years ago maybe.
I'm glad we could help!
Back in the early 60's I had a 1952 Pontiac straight 8 engine. That had a main bearing knock, I used a 40w oil with a can of STP, even in California, at 7:00am. the engine would not turn over fast enough to start, but open the hood and let the sun warm the engine. till about 12:00 pm noon. The engine would start right up. But now with the new battery chemistry, it would have started up anyway. Great Video, THANKS
Thanks!
I remember those days! I used SAE 40 during the summer in my 61 Buick, but if there was a really cold morning, it would crank too slowly to reliably start, yet later in the day, it would start right up every time.
Bulldozer operators way back in the day built small camp fires under the oil pan to warm the oil to start them.
@@Splungers Back when single-grade ruled. Many people used to install block heaters for the same reason.
The more I watch the more I’m convinced I may should switch to 5-30 from 0-20. In South Carolina the lowest it gets is 20 degrees in dead of winter. Or maybe use a 0-30.
There are thinner and thicker 5w-30's. They are not all the same. Pennzoil purebase oils, these made from natural gas, are known to be on the thinner side of their specs. In fact many criticize them as being too thin for their designation. South Carolina has very moderate winters, nothing compared to northern states where a 0w-20 would be needed in winter.
Yeah it's too warm to go from 5w30 to 0w20. Plus the majority of time the engine is warm from running, so the oil is going to be at 30. 20 is going to be too thin. I had many cars that used 5w30 in the winter in Chicago, it would be -20 or lower, they were fine.
0w30 is a year round oil
You could try mixing the same brand and type of oil half 5w30 and half 0w20. So that comes out to 3w25ish? There’s people mixing oils all the time with no issues and every additive is messing with the oil as well and there’s no issue. If you want slightly more protection it’s a good option.
@@Ashley_van_Schooneveld Too when cold for my tastes.
OMG thank you for this. So many (one some cases very good) engine builders do not understand this.
I'm glad you liked it.
Thank u. So we'll explained. This is the way my mind works and all the stuff I've thought about through the years but never really had answers to. Thanks again... U have found a great 'niche' for all of us engine/machine/mad-scientists. Thanks again
You are so welcome
UNBELIEVABLE STUFF!!! Just to show you oil is NOT just oil.
Thanks!
Honda Del Sol recommended oil is 5w-30
Rebuilt engine less than 80k miles ago, runs strong, smooth, etc.
1 thing we did was put on a cooler thermostat. I Live in California near the bay
where temperatures are always within 40F degrees to a max of 95 degrees. Rarely does it go over 85 degrees here.
Inland it can definitely go over 100.
I run 5w-30 because it runs so much better and gets better gas mileage. They had me running 10w-40 before the engine rebuild.
and I stuck with it, even after the rebuild, out of habit, until 1 day I read the car should be run on 5w-30. Once I switched back to 5w-30 the car ran so much smoother and noticeably the MPG Went up...
Just watched your other video on temperature and downloaded the PDF with the Oil / temperature charts.
I like 5w-30 but manager at O'Reilly's and Mechanic want me to run run 5w-30 High Mileage Valvoline synthetic blend with Lucus Oil Stabilizer or 10w-40.
Which should I do? I am thinking High Mileage. I change my oil very regularly and only drive 10,000 miles yearly max.
Note: Engine temperature Always stays just below the midline and alway has since rebuild. Which I Like.
That Lucas is killing your engine. Don’t do oil additives. Watch the oil geek video on the subject.
He recommends using PEA fuel additives to keep the rings clean to prevent fuel dilution of the oil.
Yep! Lucas will look like spider webs on your valve train. It's kind of like picking up the first slice of xtra cheese pizza. Retains dirt (well ok, holds everything you want gone when you change oil).
I thought everyone knew the W was for winter, zero degrees C oil testing, it was 'common knowledge' among mechanics in UK in the 1980's and earlier
When I attended a lecture for instructors in Florida 'trade school' I found almost none of the 130+ actually knew much at all about oils, Harley 'technicians' were particularly bad and didn't want to change anything from '30weight winter and 40 weight summer'
The oil engineer actually told me 'American' oil companies were selling products 10~15 years behind Europe
This was around 13~14 years ago when 'black death' advertising was being done by Castrol
Thanks for another great video. The explanation of rotational vs flow in regards to the multigrade numbers cleared things up in my head!
I’m glad that helped. It never made sense to me until I understood that as well.
Back in the day, we ran straight 50 weight motor oil in large radial aircraft engines. During winter, the engines needed extensive pre-heating to achieve the proper viscosity before starting the engines. I remember spilling some 50 weight on the ramp at -20F. After the spill cooled to -20F, I could be pick it up off the snow like a piece of coal.
No ya didn't
@@TheHonestPeanut Have you ever played in -12 degree F weather? As a kid, we were not allowed to be inside, unless they were worried you would melt or blow away!
@@jeffreyyoung4104 played and worked, yeah. A few years ago I logged in -17 with wind. What's that have to do with using a non existent thing though? The OC called it "50 weight" which isn't actually a thing.
@@TheHonestPeanut OK, he used the common definition for viscosity, and it is known and understood to mean the same thing when you say weight. So when you go to the store to buy oil, and say you want 90 weight gear lube, everyone there will understand and grab the same bottle of lube.
@@jeffreyyoung4104 on a video that literally explains why it's wrong and what the correct meaning is. Either dude's thick as polar bear shit or an asshole. Either way it's a dumb comment.
Thanks for doing the research for anyone who is obtuse about engine oil knowledge. I do remember oil being just SAE 30 or a specific weight, mostly used for generator motors etc. Thanks goodness for Kendall chemist's giving the automotive engineers a better blueprint to design more efficient motors. Your passion for automotive knowledge is appreciated ✌🏽❤️
Thank you!
I recently acquired a replacement car with a BMW M47R diesel engine, it had been recently serviced but I had no information on what oil had been used I assume that it was the either a 15w,-40 or 10w-40 semi-synthetic which were BMW's original recommendations when this engine type in UK climate when this engine was introduced more than 20 years ago. I switched the engine to a more modern 0w-40 full synthetic meeting BMW's LL-04 standard which I know from.experience works well in these engines.
The beneficial effect on fuel consumption surprised me. Normal UK spring weather overnight temperatures just above freezing typical ambient temperature at engine start 7 or 8 centigrade. From.cold start vehicle is used daily for a 6 mile outbound journey which is all up hill and a 6 mile return journey 2 hours later.
After the oil change fuel consumption immediately improved by between 3 and 5.%
Best explanation I have seen. This video needs to be seen by all the oil experts out there who think the oil starts as a 10 weight cold then thickens to a 30 weight hot. Same goes for those who use 15W40 diesel motor honey in their gasoline engines that call for a thinner oil. This seems to be very popular these days.
Do a video about zinc in oil. There is a decades long belief that more is better. What is your opinion about someone dumping a zinc additive on top of your already carefully formulated package?
Don’t do it! - Thanks for the comment. The ZDDP video is in the works.
@@themotoroilgeek I stopped using additives a couple decades ago. I will no longer contaminate what comes out of the bottle.
@@Deucealive75 👍👍
I had straight 30w in my V-8 in snowy Delaware. My engine struggled to crank over. Once it started, everything was okay.
1952. Jersey Standard introduces Uniflo motor oil, the first multigrade motor oil recommended for both summer and winter use.
Dr. John Ellis founded Valvoline in 1866 when he discovered the lubricating properties of distilled crude oil, formulating the world's first petroleum-based lubricant.
Viscosity is the most important operating characteristic. Cleanliness is the most important physical characteristic.
Thank you for the load of knowledge regarding terms often used improperly. 9:27 table is very interesting, I put it in perspective with a modern oil like Motul X-Clean GEN2 which provides 3.9 HTHS@150°C while being 5W40.
I remember learning in high school automotive class back in the 90's that the "W" meant winter. That always stuck with me and I get a little smile on my face every time I hear someone say they're looking for a specific weight oil. I would correct them, but I know better :)
Smart move!
Now I know why I'm running 15w40 grade in my Toyota 1nzfe. When I'm living in the Equator in stop go traffic where the maximum speed I get is 25 mph and the engine is operating hot all the time.
Great video! Can you do one on two stroke oils and also one on gearbox oils for wet clutch? Thanks
Great suggestion!
Detailed and comprehensive. Thanks!!
Thanks! They changed the scale!
Viscosity is the resistance to flow. In the case of the Centipoise scale, that resistance is initially getting oil to flow from STATIC conditions at "room temperature" when oils are "thickest". The lower this scale, the easier to initially flow oil so dry parts can be lubed quickly after cranking. Think of sliding a weight up a ramp, initially overcoming the larger coefficient of STATIC friction.
Once the weight is moving up the ramp, less force can be applied to keep it moving, much like KINEMATIC Viscosity, measured in Centistokes -- the resistance to flow when the fluid is already moving. Said resistance to flow is important (especially with hotter engine oil temperatures when oil is "thinnest") to leave it where it needs to lubricate before "slipping" away.
Wow! Interesting, That's a lot to take in and understand.
It really is!
ambient temperature
+ engine temperature. I think we gotta remember that. We need that"warmed" engine protection as well.
Thanks Lake.
I ride a V twinn all year around.. Mostly.
I live in Northern Utah. One of my bikes calls for 20w 40 semi-syn. I used 10w 40 semi-syn. during the coldest months.
The youtube algorithm brought me there and I'm glad because it's informative. I do have a question, my bmw engine (s54b32) requires 10w60 oil, which is pretty thick in my opinion. Based on information I could find online, BMW spec'd this oil due to the recall of the first year or two the engines started to have rod bearing failure due to the smaller rod bearing surface area having a redline of 8k RPM which initially had a factory 5w30 oil spec. This engine is known to have increased rod bearing wear due to the smaller rod bearing surface area so it's a recommended maintenance service interval of 80-100k miles to have the rod bearings replaced.
Now there is a lot of discussion in the BMW forums regarding the oil viscosity and theories that BMW spec'd this weight of oil as a BAND-aid for the root cause (smaller bearing surface area). I've made the switch to redline 5w50 at the recommendation of others who claim to have experience that it's a much better oil for the engine. Looking at the data sheets, the viscosity at 40C and 100C is similar to a comparable 10w60 (liqui moly). The HTHS is over 3.5, 5 to be exact for redline 5w50. Does this mean that the redline 5w50 has the same characteristics as the 10ww60 (liqui moly) with better cold cranking value (5W) and better oil flow (50)? I hope I'm understanding that correctly. Thanks!
Great question! Yes, the 5W-50 Redline is a better option than the 10W-60. We never see a 10W-60 still in the 60 grade range after use. They either shear to a 50 or 40 grade.
Try to use 0w40 mobil1 fs.
As a long time mechanic, I've struggled with this.
What are your suggestions in one of my scenario's? Similar to what you touched on at the end, environment dictates chemistry.
I'm in a tropical climate with an older mazda as my kick around daily. In America my exact same 20 year old engine has a specified oil of 0w-20. If I go onto each individual oil manufacturer site in my country. Each one recommends a different specification? Anywhere from 0w-20 mobile to 5w-40 and everything in between.
In summer, the temperature ranges anywhere between 18C at night to low 30'sC on average but the occasional 40C.
1, Does the winter rating matter at all in my climate if it's always 30 to 60C!!! Above those winter ratings.
2, Why does environment matter to the hot rating (even in a hot environment) if the engine cooling system is adequate. It should only ever be around the temperature it is tested at 100C.
It pretty common here due to climate. If an engine asks for a 30, most will go to a 40. Are they just wasting fuel for no real gain in protection?
3, My confusion comes from the climate scales which suggest for ambient temperatures in my area. I would be nuts to run anything below a 40 in summer? Why does the ambient even matter if the rating is made at 100C, and the day to day putting around engine oil sits below that? Once at the same running temp. Other than the spec the factory has set for it's tolerance in the motor. Why does ambient temp even matter?
Id recommend installing an oil pressure gage if you want to go down in viscosity. take some oil pan temp readings from similar trips/different ambient temps and see how hot that oil is getting. no way id run a 0w20 in your climate. a 40 grade oil wouldn't be overkill either, especially with age and mileage.
The ambient mostly only matters for determining the Winter grade, 0w and 5w are so common because they cover any climate from the Arctic to the Sahara while having relatively little effect on the Summer grade. Typically, manufacturers don't really care about Winter grades in hot climates, thus they might spec 10w30 for a hot region while the US spec might be 0w-30 to ensure it's safe for the relatively few customers who experience extremely low temps who need the low viscosity. They used to run 'straight weight' 30 oil during warm seasons, with no Winter rating (i.e. just SAE 30 Oil instead of 5w30) when low temp performance wasn't a concern, and this is still common for race engines and small power equipment engines that only run in warm weather.
The 'Summer' rating is what actually matters for engine design, fuel efficiency and wear protection and many countries spec higher viscosity oils than US/Europe because they may not have as strict emissions/efficiency requirements and because low winter rating oils are generally more expensive/premium compared to a 10w or 15w for the same Summer rating. Usually the important Oil spec is determined by the summer rating within a relatively narrow range (i.e. Manufacturer prefers 30 oil, though xW20 or xW40 perform similarly enough to be allowed/suggested to provide protection) with the Winter rating not really mattering when the Engine is running at the same hot temp everywhere. The environment does NOT matter for the summer rating like you thought.
If a car suggests a 30 grade summer Oil, you won't hurt it with a 40 grade summer, but there's no reason to use it in a hot climate because as we established, the operating temp is regulated around 100c and using a higher summer viscosity is completely unnecessary. To help simplify multi-grade Oils, the 'real' or 'base' is the Winter rating, meaning a 0w30 Oil is a thinner Oil than a 10w-30, and the thinner oil with the same summer rating requires more additives (Polymers, etc) to achieve a given Summer viscosity rating. The higher Polymers content in wide-range Oils comes at the cost of somewhat worse protection (like high-shear or high-load lubrication as mentioned in this video) which is another main reason 'thicker' (higher Winter rating for same summer rating) Oils are suggested in different regions. It's critical to understand the the viscosity ratings are a range, meaning thinner Oils with more thickener additives have a slightly lower viscosity at the 100c reference than for instance a 15w-30 or especially just an SAE 30 oil with no thickener additives. It's a fairly narrow range meaning there won't be a huge difference for a certain summer rating, but the slightly lower viscosity will theoretically provide worse protection, leading to manufacturers preferring higher winter ratings in general when they can ignore the extreme cold viscosity performance.
So, to sum it up, the Winter number is the actual Oil viscosity with high Polymer wide-range oils being much thinner at room and low temps and slightly thinner than narrower range, lower polymer oils at 100c with slightly worse protection. The caveat is that this assumes all the base Oils are high quality for the different grades and in general lower Winter rating oils tend to be a higher quality, often fully synthetic base oil versus 10w and 15w being cheaper with a lower quality Oil and thus it's assumed that 0w and 5w will last longer before degrading chemically in general, another main reason they're chosen as the spec when not required to offer more protection for customers who neglect oil changes. That's the basics on viscosity and protection but the best Oils are largely determined by the base oil quality and additives for anti-wear, cleaning, etc. Just go with the Summer rating for your engine and you can research the Oils with the best additives and highest refinement if you care enough beyond running the right viscosity.
I’d be interested in learning about ATF. I worked at New Process Gear years ago. We put ATF into transfer cases which is interesting because ATF is hydraulic oil. Transfer cases are not hydraulic like an automatic transmission is. Additionally, I did some cold synchronizer testing with mineral vs synthetic ATF. Differences were incredible. Great video, thank you.
Mobil Gargoyle Arctic C. Typically used in refrigeration compressors. I had to buy that oil for an old machine tool years ago. It was for a friction disk lined feed clutch on a Gray Planer. I think it is basically mineral oil. It would be interesting to hear an experts thoughts on the "Arctic" oils. Certainly not an SAE spec.
Since I ride my motorcycle year round, from the low teens to 100+, I see a deep rabbit hole of researching. Starting with going back to the owners manual.
Great content as always, I'm looking forward to your video on viscosity index. I have always avoided oils with wide viscosity spreads as much as ambient temperatures allow because of the problems viscosity modifiers have historically caused. I'm sure modern viscosity modifiers don't cause nearly as many problems as they did in the bad old days, but I still don't like the possibility of shearing, higher volatility, etc.
That one is in the works!
As i live in australia we never really get in the minus-0 maybe 2 or 3 degrees for a few days a year. I will definitely go a higher winter number than what im running my car on now as there is no need to be running a 5w 30 thanks Lake love your information that you share.
That is absolutely fascinating. Good explanation.
You are fantastic at explaining oil and how it works. I can think of no one else that I can trust more to provide useful information regarding oil than you.
I think that you could do a great service in making a video regarding
the ideal type of oil for use in an air-cooled riding lawnmower engine and its hydro gear transmission. There are virtually no videos out there to provide the level of expertise that you have regarding this matter.
Evidently, many lawnmower engines are failing due to high heat. Can this be because of less zinc or other lacking additives in new oil formulas? Hydor gear transmissions call for a 20W/50 engine oil, but what would work best....a high zinc oil?
Thanks for your videos. You are great.
Thanks for the kind words. I’ll think about doing that.
I greatly enjoy the science and truth of the matter behind the hype and adds. Can you please discuss lubricity and metals in other machinery like firearms and tractors ect.. i know it may not be your specialty however there has got to be a ton of crossover and no one else cuts through the bs and marketing like you!
Thanks for this information. I thought I had a working knowledge, but I just learned I didn't even have my terms correct.
One practical tip that I learned flying turbocharged airplanes (extremely expensive engines) is don't just shut down a turbo engine until the turbo cools. If the turbo is red hot and the oil pressure goes to zero, it will cook the oil in the turbo and lead to premature oil degradation as a small amount turns to charcoal at the 1400 degree turbo temp. Maybe cars keep circulating the oil for a time. IDK, but it seems like they should.
Wonderful explanation. It dispels a lot of the myths. Looking at the test table here: 09:21 , I see that for the W ratings, the "hottest" tests were performed at -10 degree C. Does that mean for a vehicles that are driven in tropical countries that never ever get below +15 degree C, the W rating is entirely irrelevant? I'm currently working overseas in a tropical country and there's a lot of myth about how 0W40 is better than 10W40, etc.. But going by what you have explained here, it really doesn't apply to climates that never gets below sub-zero Celsius.
Exactly! If the temperatures are never below freezing, then it is mostly irrelevant. The narrower the split between the number before the W and after the W, the more shear stable it will be.
@@themotoroilgeekdoes that mean I can use a monograde SAE 30 on my pickup which requires 5w-30 as per manufacturer specification? I live in the tropics where the temperature seldom goes down below 21 degrees C.
nice information. I would love to see a comparison on Rottela t6 and mobil one. Thank you for all your videos
I would really appreciate it if you could elaborate more on the 0w40 vs 15w40 to talk in detail why the 40 weights get those types of special rules etc
I live in Puerto Rico and I’m going nutz over my new 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage asking for 0w-20 for all temp ranges (US Federal as well) 😵💫 But I’m concerned as to what going to our standard proven 5w-30 would do, other than robbing a couple of MPGs, which I don’t care for, I’m in for engine longevity. We’ve seen high oil consumption on engines calling for these grades for many years now (even with the 5w-20s), specially on Hyundai/Kia. Mixed with 7500-10000k miles OCIs recommendations, lots of seized engines due to low oil levels. Most mechanics and lube shops have opted for overfilling by at least half a quart on any engine asking for low grades. But, we also see some new engines last long sticking to the low viscosity oils, with no significant oil consumption between OC🤷🏼♂️. Most vehicles on the island do stop and go traffic, our highways aren’t that long, that is why when we buy used cars from the states with high millage, we have a saying “ahh… thats state miles, divide that in half, that car is new”. But a high millage local vehicle, is a no go, and by high millage we mean anything over 60k+ miles 😂
Great video. Please, make a video talking about thickening polymers.
Very interesting! My air cooled Harley takes 20w50. Pretty much honey because runs so hot all year vs 0w in my truck
Hi, do you recommend me to use a 10w-30 or a 15w-40 in a 100k Miles vehicle? This in summer with temperatures between 30 to 40 celsius. Nice video and channel !!
This was very informative... I have been running 5w40 in my truck and was afraid that winter cold starts would be a bit too "thick". I've had a few -30f nights and quite a few -15f nights, so it is good to know the oil still flows good enough and isn't a block of gel that can't be pumped.
Hey there motor oil geek😅 it's great that you explain things in such technical terms but it would be nice at the end if you would just explain it in plain English for those of us that aren't geeky😮 we would really appreciate that❤
Thanks for the info as some idiots on UA-cam explained 20w50 oil viscosity increase from 20 to 50 when engine operation get hotter. Some say oil gets thinner with high mileage and some say it turns to sludge.
I'm happy to help!
Mind blown!!! Great explanation!! Wow!
This is so much great information and thanks for sharing your wisdom
Glad it was helpful!
Well explained
It is a difficult concept to explain to people. Nice one!…..
Hey good point on the 8,12 overlap…look at the HTHS!
I like to torque analogy on centpoise and the flow on centistokes.
Can be very confusing to people
But rewarding when it clicks!
Thanks!
love these videos. in my Diesel (Cummins 6.7) i would use a Rottela T6 10w30 in summer and in winter i'd drop to 5W as that was lowest available in T6. (i'm in northern canada and see -45C temps) my new truck runs 0W20 all year.
Dear Sir, I am an old man who has a 6.7 super duty diesel with 1/4m Miles It pulls my camper from lake to lake fishing or whatever. I start it every other day. I should keep it all in storage with good oil. I don't. When I am gone I won't care...
P. S: I loved watching your dad.
As usual, great stuff Lake. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. Regards Greg from Perth in Western Australia
Thanks for watching!
Yes İ know but if people think it is weight it is not practically wrong as thick means not flowing when cold so less "weight" more flow while cold!
Maybe someone can answer this question here. I've noticed for various cars the owners manual in the US will say one grade of oil while the same owners manual in another country will provide a list of other grade oils a person can use. Example, new land cruiser manual specifies 0w-20 only. While the Japanese manual lists 0w-20 as standard, but up to 10w-30 as also acceptable.
I recently discovered that Mobil 1 0w40 European Car was warming up faster than a BMW Original Engine Oil 0w30 Twin Power Turbo
As the video says the second number is “thickness” when warm. So the 0w40 is causing more resistance in the engine and warming it up faster.
Great info. Now I'm wondering if a 5W-30, like my other vehicles call for, would work better in my '74 Ford FE 360. I've switched everything to full synthetic after watching all of these videos and seeing the science behind it.
My dad remembers when oil was either 10 , or 20, or even 50 for heavy use like gear boxes.
Interestingly enough, aircraft engine oil has the dash before the W, so for example Aeroshell 15W-50 is written 15-W50 on the bottle. It might just be Shell that writes it that way.
I've been an AMSOIL dealer since...gulp...1975. And do you know what I've actually known about the products I've beeb selling? Other than what "the W" meant, absolutely 💯 % nothing. Yeah. I'm into your channel for the long term. Thank you.
Welcome aboard!
The W designation does stand for winter. But it's used as the Exemplar of the oil being thinner when it's colder out which means it has a lower viscosity. A lower specific gravity, or, as the entire understanding comes to the conclusion that it is a lower weight. It doesn't matter what people think the letter stands for. It means the same thing.
I still change on for the climate. 5-30 for summer and 10-30 for summer
Well Lake, I have been using 10W 30 in my 3.8 liter engine in my van for almost as long as I have had my old van. Yet with it burning oil, it might be advantageous to step down to the 5W 30 the manufacturer recommends for my jalopy, even though my onboard information center claims that I am getting around 19 miles per gallon.
Which that is with new two years ago E3 platinum spark plugs, plug wires, fuel filter last year. Essentially everything has been changed with regards to a tune up.
Now I do only change my oil every 10,000 to 12,000 miles, because it is all highway miles, which my owners manual definitely allows for longer periods between oil changes, which includes oil filter change.
You might want to try the Cummins / Valvoline Restore oil. If the oil consumption is due to buildup in the ring grooves, that oil will fix it.
@@themotoroilgeek Okay I will definitely look into doing that and looking into getting an sample test to get an analysis of my engines health aside from what you are alluding to in your response.
@@themotoroilgeek Lake, I also want to be sure to thank you for taking the time to get back to me as well.
@@TheCrewChief374 I’m happy to help!
The PCV valve needs to be changed on those engines regularly or they, like most engines, will burn oil. I change mine every other oil change and it keeps the oil use at a minimum.
Back in the day, W always meant Winter. SAE 10W and SAE 20W were winter-grade oils, SAE 20, 30, 40, and 50 were summer-grade oils. The difference between SAE 20W and SAE 20 was in the temperature it's viscosity was measured.
I was there back in the day, weight was just a Synonym for winter.
@@lonniebeal6032 W was for winter, not weight. Weight is the viscosity or thickness.
I'm from back in the day, or the 70s, oils by every mechanic, auto store and friends used the synonym of weight. Even our language has synonyms...
@@jamesbosworth4191 I'm also from the 70s doing oil changes. Not one mechanic, auto store rep, or gear head friend used Winter when discussing the viscosity of oil. Our language has synonyms, doesn't matter if you like it or not.
@@lonniebeal6032We are talking about Multi Viscosity oil, such as 10W - 40, 20W - 50, etc., and single grade with a W after the number, such as SAE 10W, SAE 20W, SAE 5W. These contexts, the W does mean Multi-Vis when the oil is cold. For Single Viscosity, we talking about winter-grade single viscosity oils - SAE 5W, SAE 10W, SAE 20W. These viscosities are specifically made for use in cold conditions, thus, back in the day, there was both SAE 20 oil and SAE 20W oil. They were not the same, the difference being the temperature they were rated at. In these contexts, the W did indeed mean winter grade or cold, not weight.
I use Mannol 0W-40, so when my engine is cold it will flow at 0W but as it warms it will be 40...I have seen people test flow of 0W-40, 5W-40 & 10W-40 and at room temperature the 0W flowed the fastest...
Will a..-40 oil protect the engine more than a ..-30?
It depends upon the operating conditions. Thinner oils tend to work better in cold weather and thicker oils work better in hotter weather.
I’m still hearing people who don’t know what “cold” pressure means in a tire.
HINT: it is unrelated to the human sensation of coldness. EX: a tire can be at cold pressure on the very hottest day in the Mojave Desert.
TMOG, could you discuss the trade off between oil shearing over time, which lowers the grade, and sludge build up over the, which increases grade. In the old days in a warm climate (Houston) I used 10W40 in my 280z. It used a quart of oil between oil changes and I would top it off with 50 weight to offset presumed shear degradation. Seemed like a good idea, but was it, given that weight increases with mileage due to sludge and other reasons?
In my 1993 Ford Crown Victoria and 1986 Olds Cutlass Ciera when I used 10W30 it took 4000 km for the oil to get black. If I used 5w30 it only took 2000km to turn black. In the owners manual for my 1994 Ford Thunderbird the owner's manual says 5W30 but the factory service manual says 10W30.
Why?
Probably ring seal.
@@themotoroilgeek If I use 10W30 in the thunderbird no oil burns. If I use 5w30 in the thunderbird it burns a quart after 1500 miles. The oil spec for my brother 2006 Ranger is 5w20. The Hayne Manuel says 10w30. When the truck was getting 5W20 it was burning a quart every 200 miles. Now that it gets 10w30 it still burns a little bit of oil but not like before.
So i am now mixing 5w30 with 5w50 to get 5w40 in the summer for my high mileage 3.5L ecoboost.
Could you comment on the use of 0W20 vs 5W30 or a mixture of the two in an LS?
I doubt that these guys will answer things like this due to liabilities. Check your owners manual and a viscosity chart. If your car only allows for 0w20, I'd run Redline in the summer, and any full synthetic on sale in the cooler months. I didn't suggest Amsoil in case you have a warranty, they weren't willing to pay for some of the certifications from what I've read. I say Redline because it's a group IV oil, and has the highest anti-wear additives I've seen so far. Except for racing oils which don't belong in street cars.
As soon as you said celcius you get a thumbs up lol thank you
GDI engines seem to be all the rage these days. The type and viscosity of the oil and something called "scuff resistance" seem to be very important in a properly operating GDI engine. Would sure like to get your take on this subject and which oils are best suited for this purpose.
Due to liability issues, he won't answer. GDI motors are likely to have oil dilution sooner than port injection. Always full synthetics, check your owners manual for choice for hotter temps. Either get an oil analysis for a set of say 5k miles and then decide.
WELL DONE. | Thanks for the facts.
Thanks!