More Thoughts on Fiverr and Graphic Design [Rant]
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- More Thoughts on Fiverr and Graphic Design [Rant]
Some people think I've been unfair to Fiverr...
So in this video I tried to address in a more practical less ranty way, but I ended up in a rant anyway.
Fiverr is not for Graphic Design. It is for task that you can put a clock on. I think that Fiverr itself is not inherintley bad. But marketers ruin everything... I say that as a marketer... so does Gary Vee. And it's true. The Marketing of Fiverr and the bottom of the barrel mentality is the problem.
It tries to pass bargain shopping as professional grade, and that is my biggest issue. If you're the bargain grab bag, own it. These businesses would not hire a $5 lawyer even if someone tried to market it to them. They would say that is insane and there is no way that can work out well... but for something like design or creative they are willing to devalue it very quickly.
Fiverr can and should be used appropriately for things like micro-consulting and transcription and data entry. It's not meant to be sweatshop labor for creative services. But that is what it currently is.
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Well played, Roberto! If you don't value your time, effort, and talent, your clients won't either...
John Mikaelian Indeed!
I agree with you. I am doing Fiverr temporarily as a college student. This is helping me build my portfolio, Gain experience and preparing me by earning extra cash to establish my own small business.
Some very powerful points here Roberto... To some I may have a different take, based on my personal experiences. But how interesting that although we pretty much belong to different worlds, the problems and the opinions and the conclusions -- they are pretty much the same. Thank you for expressing your take on this man! Peace!
It's scary to think that I have to compete with Fiver and sites like it but thanks to viewing couple of your videos I've maned up and started charging way more than when I started. At first there were so many doubts in my mind weather I was worth what I was charging and I've come to realize I wasn't even close. Now, I'm not saying I'm banking but now I can truly say my services and pricing allow me to make an ok living as oppose to struggling to make ends meat when I first started. Thanks!
Leobardo Gonzalez I love hearing success stories. Even more so when my content has played a role in them! Keep pushing and Creating Awesome!
Will do!
Man, everything you talk about is gold, great videos man keep them up!
3bertface01 Thanks!
Just for the record, I'm not a graphic designer, but I am a writer who often needs to hire the services of a graphic designer. Also, I too am a member of a creative profession that people often expect to do our hard work for free, or for ridiculously low prices that undervalues our work and doesn't enable us to make a decent living off of our craft. So I greatly sympathize with your message here, Roberto: it's important that intellectual workers not undervalue our work, or people will undervalue us and our entire profession.
Part of the problem, though, is that newcomers who are working hard to break into the business, such as writers just getting into the indie publishing like myself, need quality work at prices that do not break our bank of those who are on a serious budget. For instance, I could not work with a graphic designer who asked for $200.00, not because I do not think their work is worth it, but because I simply do not have that kind of money to spend or risk on such an investment right now. So there have to be ways that writers and cover designers/illustrators should work with each other to make profitable projects that can up the reputation value of both, so then each party are in a position to pay more for such quality work. I am often, for example, trying to figure out how much to sell my books for that accomplish two purposes: 1) Do not under-compensate me for all the hard work I put into the entire process; and, 2) Do not ask too much for the average reader on a budget to realistically be able to pay for, especially in such a glutted market of intense competition. What would be good ways for writers and designers to work with each other to meet this important balancing act? I'm open to suggestions, as someone who fully understands both sides of the issue.
Another great video Roberto, I don't think you are being too hard on sites like Fiverr at all, even going so far as to say you might use the site for certain services. That's more than I would do. I think it's important to hammer these points home and to educate people who may not otherwise understand how sites like these devalue the work of creatives and you are doing a great job in that respect.
Having said that I'm not sure if I agree with your Mac vs PC analogy. I don't think anyone can look at a piece of finished digital art and realistically say “This is better so it must have been created on the Mac” A good designer with a PC can work circles around a mediocre designer with a Mac. I've worked on both platforms and can do just as stellar work regardless of the operating system. I agree Macs are cooler, but I've never been that cool and once the illustration or design is completed and out in the real world no one will be the wiser as to what kind of computer it was created on.
Anyway keep up the Awesome work. I love your channel.
Roberto, you drop so much fire in your videos, I'm learning so much. You shouldn't call these rants though, because all the info is what a graphic designer should hear at least twice in their lifetime
I think you're being pretty realistic about fiverr, it's alright if you manage your time and do tiny projects that won't require thought or effort if you need some extra income, but beyond that it's just devaluing our trade as commodity makers. It's a shame how artists are so willing to take nothing for their work, all it does is further the idea that "Oh why pay for their time, it's not like it's 'real' work". I was there once doing the work for almost no pay and it was always quite a proverbial kick to the nuts getting little to no reward while others profited from the work. Charge what you think your worth people, if you act confident people will pay what you ask or close to it.
keegan connor Thanks, yes that is pretty much the sum of it.
Well said Roberto! People need to value their skills and services correctly and not underprice and devalue the industry!
we must believe in our value in society and show it! Create orders like doctors, lawyers and nurses...
Marco Costa agreed.
Roberto Blake In Portugal we are trying to make a designers's order, like the architects :) Only in 2005 we're finally called designers in finances and not
service supplier...
Thank you very much for you're presentation. I'm a bit older than you however you have persuaded me to do better. Thanks Again and God Bless.
This is a great video! It reminds me of the points you made when you mentioned how design is undervalued.
Ian Heath Thanks.
Well said RB! We need to learn how to value ourselves as creatives.
Childprodigy28 Indeed!
No you are ON THE TIP OF THE T with the issue of fiverr. I can't imagine making a full style guide for a client without calling them, meeting them, getting a feeling for their business, presenting sketches, and delivering a personal logo for $5--$10--$20---$50...It's a huge middle finger to the designer from the designer.
Very nicely said, Roberto! Thanks for this.
Brian Truesby Thanks for watching!
Hello Roberto Blake ! Thank You for this video.
People who are NOT graphic designers should also watch this video.
They understimate or don't give the right value to visual comunication and branding, I mean, 5$, 50$ 100$ for a logo design ? Is that what Your business/company is worth?
Having a brand identity is very important to deliver reliability, trust and comunication.
The first thing that comes to Your mind when You think about a company or business is their brand, their logo, it represents more than 50% of Your business, it's Your DNA, the first impression.
And a lot of people somehow don't value branding/graphic design as it should be valued, they only want/think about selling their product or service.
Pedro Almeida Bingo! Thank you for this tremendous comment. Yeah, people really don't get that they need to invest in their businesses. And they are convinced businesses exist to make money and use that justify being cheap. Making money is a result. Ask your customers if they care if your business makes money, because you business only exist as long as you have costumers, which means businesses exist to provide value for customers and reap money as a RESULT. So the desire to make money has nothing to do with the existence of a business. That mentality alone is where people are going wrong and losing the game. So when they decide to call themselves being "fiscally minded" as an excuse to leverage sites like Fiverr for branding assets, they are acting like losers who don't know how to win. Fiverr has it's place, creative services like logo design isn't one of them.
Thank You for replying Roberto Blake
Also, people misunderstand the word spend and invest. For example, when You are developing a brand identity, Your are not spending money, You are investing money.
Pedro Almeida Exactly!
Great vid just like the rest of them!
Ahh this is definitely one of those "I told you so" moments for me though (with me on the receiving end). Agreed with your points on Fiverr but being in a situation myself where I can't afford to invest much more in my fledgling project until I start seeing some returns - I figured a Fiverr gig logo might make a good placeholder in the meantime...
So a couple days ago I purchased one with all the added options for a total of $35, seemed like a great deal even if the logo did end up being poor. Received the logo, it actually looked pretty great, but my gut told me I'd seen the symbol in the logo before - so, to reverse image search, and wham they'd just taken an image straight from Wikipedia. Worst part of it was that I was actually happy to start using the logo, but to do that I'd need to attribute it since it's under the CC 3.0 license, and that's difficult when it comes to an actual logo.
Doh should have listened and trusted my gut, guess it's back to trying to cobble something rubbish together in Photoshop until I have a more decent amount of funds available!
Don't do what someone else can do better faster. First rule of business. I funds are the issue barter skills.
+Roberto Blake Well said!
This is my first video watching from you but i am totally with you.
Do you charge by the hour or a flat rate per project? I'm a lot slower than I should be as a graphic designer and although I am working on my speed and I do quality work I still struggle with pricing.
+karma12gaming Reference my videos on pricing, its a bit more involved than just either or.
Hi Roberto I am curious what are your thoughts on going through fiverr for Professional UA-cam Video Marketing? If not fiverr would you be able to send me to the right direction? I want to do this the right way and I really value your opinion.
Great message! I am a graphic designer that has been working in one company alone for the last 9 years. I recently quit my job because I wanted to start working freelance. I am collecting unemployment, I have 4 kids and wanted to be abel to be there for them and challenge myself to be abel to work from home. I know I took a big risk but I hope it pays off in the long run. My company was really sad to see me go and I know that they were really happy with me and my work. I hope to make a bigger impact for more companies working from home so that I could have more flexible hours to be there for my kids. Any tips would be much appreciated
Brand new to Fiverr. Wanted a logo for facebook banners and social media (paid an extra $5 on top of the $25 Pro rate for a social media kit and stationary design. Total: $36.75). I answered the questions, provided specific concept ideas and waited. What I got was Text on a background with a runner logo, poorly done and thrown together in a hurry. It was offensive. Wrote a nicely worded revision letter and now waiting.
Didn't get a "Media Kit", just 3 .png files. Stationary kit missing too?
What you said at 4:50 about "head to hear to wallet and if you can't get that.." is really how I feel about my seller. Swing and a miss but I'll hold off on a negative review until I see the revision. I even went into MS Paint and did a mock-drawing to give her an idea.
But how does Fiverr work? Is my money sunk? Am I expecting too much for $37? I tried to be upfront with my ideas and my wishes and I browsed lots of sellers who offered to take the job before landing on this one. You're a designer - give it to me straight. What could I have done better?
Fiverr is like blind dating, quite literally. In business so much of what we do is relationship based. Money is important, but think about the time you put in to not get what you wanted? Your time is worth more than the $40 you lost or what you stood to save by not going a different route.
I think as a client you did everything you could, but you picked the wrong person, and I feel very much shopping for a good vendor through Fiverr is like marrying a girl you meet in a Dive Bar... it rarely ends well...
My suggestion is to reach out other business owners in your network you have a good relationship with who have had design work done that you feel impressed by. Find out who they used and hire them, and pay what you have to avoid wasting precious time... that is my best advice.
This is why I don't like Fiverr, it's not just as a designer. More than anything it is as a business owner. When I go out and buy my computer parts (like the $3000 monster I just built to edit videos) I could always go cheaper, but what is going to happen is everyday I'm going to lose precious time, and the saving depreciate in exchange for that, every single day.
I weigh everything as an investment and I always always seek to buy back time. Most people don't believe me when I say "I don't worry about money" until I tell them, "I worry about time, because eventually I'm going to die..." and then they get it...
My advice is to think about what gaining any new business from a single client or customer through social media generates for you in terms of revenue. Project how many clients you think you can generate from social media with improved branding in 30-60 days. Whatever the profits would be on that, consider cutting that in half or a third and set that as the upper limit of your budget... Be willing to at least pay that, bare minimum.
Find someone that has worked with someone you respect, and pay them at least that much to deliver for you.
i loved how it turned into a rant! hahaha. "you know what $500 is a lot of money!"
Mark Dimalanta LOL thanks.
Dude, great video. Subbed.
You speak from the designer side, understandable. Good points. How does a client find a designer?? I'm looking for a logo for website & podcast. Vision of a business but little $$ How do I find a designer locally. A school?? 50 bucks an insult?
I don't think you're being overly negative at all. I think these are important things that need to be said, and that more people need to understand why skilled designers shouldn't be working for cheap. Just last week I had a friend ask me to do them a huge favor and do a logo for their friend (whom I've never met) that own a small business. I told them about my process and that I would be happy to put together a quote if they filled out my questionnaire and said pass my email on or give me theirs and I'll get in touch with them. I even offered to give a family and friends referral discount, although I didn't tell them what that discount was. I would have been willing to give them probably 5-10% discount for being referred to me, maybe. Then I didn't hear anything back. The next week the same friend asked me if I could do them a favor and help out that same friend of theirs, but they needed a logo for under $100. I asked about the business and found out they own two locations in and around LA and were rebranding. I had to turn it down and explain why I couldn't do a logo for so little, but honestly I don't really think they understood. I told them how much time goes into a logo, what my process is, but in the end, I think they just wanted me to recreate this picture they saw on online for their friend and to do it for super cheap/free. It would have been a really cool project for my portfolio (had I been able to do the project the right way, not just by recreating what they wanted) and it might have gained me a little exposure in a big city, but I just couldn't compromise the integrity of my work like that. I'm not a pixel pusher who just creates someone else's vision. And if the company can afford to run two locations in that area I feel like they should be able to invest in the appropriate cost of branding. Maybe it's snobby of me, because freelancing is my side hustle right now, but I'd rather not get the project and work on something more valuable to me than be underpaid just because someone wants something cheap. I may think of helping a charity or non-profit, but a regular business that just doesn't want to pay the appropriate amount? I just can't do that. It was very hard for me to say to them, because I am a total people pleaser and I hate to disappoint and say no, but I had to.
Pink Glasses Productions Thanks for that tremendous comment. Yeah unfortunately way to many people are under selling themselves. And it is absurd that they would be asking you to do that. $100 is probably their coffee budget honestly... I hate the "really cool project pitch". The lack of "investment mentality" get's on my nerves too. Do they think designers get Mac's and Wacom tablets doing $50-$100 projects? That barely covers the monthly subscription of Creative Cloud. Learning to say NO more is the best thing that can happen to you as a creative.
Great video Roberto!
Manuel Hernandez Thanks!
Great points man!
Thanks
TITAN!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!
Piliponful lol
7:05 there he said it 👏👏👏 The harsh truth of underpaid but overworked IT employees in India. I have seen people creating business analysis apps for top companies for 30000 INR which will be about $460 all because they're scared to ask for a raise! All these greedy guys running these BPOs are earning billions while their employees work like hell 😞
Have you done work on Album art cover?
Johnathon O'quin Yes, but for nobody that ever really took off and honestly working with musicians can be very frustrating I've only had one or two that weren't.
Roberto Blake ok but what would be a good cost for making one ?
Johnathon O'quin
Probably not less than $300 but getting that kinda budget out of new indie artists can be difficult given the current market.
Couldn't agree more!
22Natta22 Glad to hear it!
Here here!
Amen, buddy.
Michael Geiger Thanks for watching Mike!
Always!
That is truth, Thanks.
Nice Video!
Modern Gaming Thank you.
Design my existence
Hey BTW... u need help with a website redesign ;P Responsive design is a must ;P
***** Yes and no. I have an overall in mind but not for that reason and I prefer adaptive design in the context of what I'm doing. Currently the site is converting for thousands of dollars a month, so it's working for it's intended initial purpose. The new design or rather new content is about positioning to book me more speaking engagements, sponsors, remote training clients and promote the podcast. Effectively marketing and converting is a must, if responsive or adaptive facilitates that, it can become a priority. Philosophy> Business Objectives > Tools/Methods. It doesn't matter how well designed something is if it can't sell to it's intended audience. Cash is Oxygen in business.
AMEN :)
My thoughts...FIVERR SERVES NO PURPOSE. It's simply a business tactic designed to take advantage of the ignorant. As you said in a previous video, any artist that would like to donate their time for free should only do so for a charity or if it will benefit them personally such as self-promotion. Roberto, I know you couldn't help yourself but RANT lol. I do it all the time because I am tired of "designers" devaluing our industry. Folks think because they know how to use Photoshop that qualifies them as a graphic designer. I know how to use a socket and a wrench, doesn't exactly qualify me as an auto-mechanic. They have no concept of composition and these are the people who are "representing" us out there with their lowball pricing. If I knew nothing of the industry and someone told me they were willing to design a logo for me for $50 how could I really respect that person's craft? I would think their work must be easy and doesn't require much thought. So these "designers" are really the root of the problem, not the clients. It's really our duty to educate the client and if at the end they still want to go pay $50 for their logo to another "designer" then I wish them all the best and God bless them.
Marco Taylor Agreed!
Marco Taylor " Folks think because they know how to use Photoshop that qualifies them as a graphic designer. I know how to use a socket and a wrench, doesn't exactly qualify me as an auto-mechanic." LOL I love that analogy! It is so true that many people in this "digital age" feel like they can use Photoshop and they can design or illustrate just as good as someone with training and/or experience. I work on my own car sometimes, so I get it, but it takes me three times as long as it would a mechanic! Oh and they are charging $90 an hour last time I checked.
Landon Wilson
Last I checked it's also nearly impossible to haggle with them on price.
Yes it is! I have fallen victim to the design/draw for this job, DesignCrowd, and also lowballing clients/friends. I am proud to say I officially lost my first client due to quoting a still low, but def getting paid for my time, fee.
Landon, it happens to us all. If you are just getting started in the industry anyone that says they've never "lost" a client hasn't been in the business long enough or they're being disingenuous. There are always those clients out there that want something for nothing. They insult you with their lowball offers about what they feel your time is worth. Roberto is exactly right on that point. But one of the most underrated qualities to have is customer service. If you are on point with that clients respect you and are willing to pay the extra $$ because they feel comfortable with you. It is the always the trust factor that people will pay for.
This exactly why i don't buy American made products anymore. We don't tend to value our jobs anymore we only care about money money moneeey!! I had a terrible experience. A seller was building home pages for 5 bucks no logo just a template that was the only option available on fiverr. So I tested the waters..7 hours later I get a respond back 100 bucks and "i will make you a quality website" Why couldn't this person mention this in the Ad? wtf. I then decide to go to a seller who seems like an Indian person. 5 bucks got me a home page with an entry level logo. I really admired his game (work) so I decided to go all out and i spent 100 bucks for 4 pages made me a quality* website. Hey Americans " don't blame the player blame the game"
what's your point?
lol you're so salty