The biggest problem I have with crowd sourcing is that most of the time the contest holder chooses a really bad design. They themselves don't have an eye for design and don't know what it takes for consistent branding. In my opinion that is detrimental to a business. These contest holders don't realize that there is a lot more work than just coming up with a cool icon with some text and pretty colors. The consulting, research, planning and everything that goes into a visual identity should be viewed as essential. Not expendable. And should be guided by a professional that knows what they're doing and is there to help the business grow. It pains me to see some of the designs people have chosen and paid for.
Nate Alspaugh We have an age where since so many people can find there way into business and where Alpha persona's can become decision makers despite making bad decisions... quality all around is diminishing and cool factor and convenience is winning, and thus losers are running the show...it may sound harsh but it is the sad truth. Intellectuals and Creatives are being devalued more and more by the masses but the people smart enough to continue to value them are winning long term. Historically that has always been the case, we're just seeing it at scale.
As a 16 year old going through school working on projects and portfolio building I find 99designs helpful as a brief website, the logos I make go into my portfolio and if I win then that's fine but I definitly wouldn't rely on contests for a living.
Totally agree with you on this Roberto, I have been in Graphic Design for 7 years and I am so sick of clients trying to exploit me and expect my time and effort for free!
Kate Gribble Exactly. I'm sorry you've had to experience that. I feel there is no excuse. People can make the biz argument all they want, but they don't play that game with their lawyers or accountants, we're no less important to the business, marketing matters and people need to respect that we are "marketers" but it will happen when Designers stop letting themselves be considered "Starving Artists".
Roberto Blake yes I have had to learn things the hard way about charging people for my work, it's like when you said about creatives feeling bad for charging because they enjoy what they do. That is exactly how I felt and I had no idea why, luckily that's not how I do things now. I wish I found your videos when I first graduated University, I have learnt so much more since watching them about how to market myself and how to interact with clients. Thank you for putting them up and helping other designers/creatives like myself.
Kate Gribble No problem. I've also started a podcast where I can go deeper into education and motivation so that when people can't watch a video like on their commute or while at the office I can give them advice and motivation. It's in iTunes and SoundCloud, its called the Create Something Awesome Today Podcast!
Very well said Roberto. This subject comes up all to often in conversations with my fellow artists. I don't know what we have to do to drive these issues home to the point where more clients recognize the value of creative professionals and creatives recognize their own value, but I plan to continue to harp on this subject until the day that it happens.
The guilt because you enjoy your work that was so spot on! Thank you for this Roberto! I guess the main reason why beginners do these contents (including me) was because it's so difficult getting clients starting out, and you get a small chance in these contests just because of the quality of your work.
Masna bin umeed I recommend using your network of personal contacts when starting out. Most people do this when getting their first jobs but neglect it when getting their first clients. Referral business still works wonders.
I started watching your videos about a week ago and you speak the truth on so many issues. I personally am pursuing a career in software/web development, but I do have an eye for design so I plan on expanding my skills. The principles and ideas you talk about apply not only to graphic designers, but to all fields of work. I honestly feel inspired to go and improve myself after watching you speak from experience. I really enjoy your videos.
***** Thank you for that tremendous comment. My goal is to educate and motivate people. It doesn't matter if it is someone coming from tech, marketing or design. I'm glad I helped you!
This video as well as the video about Fiverr were motivation for me to use these services lol If you read between the lines it's pretty clear that clients benefit greatly. Design contests seem like a great way to get a ton of creativity that you simply cannot get from just one designer. I can see how hiring one designer is okay if you already know what you want specifically and you know someone can put that on paper but if you need ideas... inspiration.... this is the way to go.
Thank you for saying this both from the business side, and the design side. Creatives deserve respect and to be valued. And we need to value ourselves! As for the getting clients portion, if you live in a remote place like I do, network through your friends, find Facebook and Google+ groups, participate in Twitter Chats. Just network network network! Build real relationships with people. Don't push your services just build relationships. The work will come from that. I have a wonderful client who refers me to her friends like crazy because I took the time to really build a relationship with her on more than a business level. All business is a relationship game. Get good at building them and you will have a thriving business. (Sorry I got a little ranty too lol!)
This "rant" is a PERFECT example of Roberto "creating something awesome today." Well done, bud. Your tact inspired me tonight, and I needed it. Please, know that your extended designer family is out here (all over the world) and we see you. Great job, and thanks again..... Keep speaking.
Really well said. I talked with you some time ago about this topic and this video answers all of my questions about graphic design contests! I still participate in some contests, it helps me to improve my graphic design skills by competing with other people. Even tho I can't win all of the contests, all of my work goes to my portfolio as concept designs, that also helps to get more clients, imo. Anyway, thanks for this video, it was really helpful and informative as always!
great video , i was also on a design contest site and the reason i stopped was that in the open design contests, if you design gets a high rating people will start to copy and slightly tweak your design causing you to have to come up with a different design ,so you don't get lost in the sea of copycats.
This is an amazing video, a very important one that definitely speaks to me. Not because of crowdsourcing (I don't do it; never looked into it), but this video is *very* interesting regarding self-esteem. You mention boxers and CEOs who have no issue charging so much money for what they need or what they do, but these are alpha-type people. I am on the verge of becoming an official "freelance graphic designer" because I finally have a potential client; however, I *need* to prove to myself that I'm worthy of this corporation, so I'm doing some work on spec, even though they need a whole slew of stuff. I grew up with a fear of myself, with a fear of what I'm capable of doing or not being able to do, and I've watched hundreds of Illustrator videos on YT, trying my hand at many of them (and learning the program in the meantime), with each video proving to me how amazing everyone else is. It is so difficult for me to even remotely *think* I can do what everyone here does, and has proven with their YT videos. So while watching this video-and discovering a new email about more work that these people may want, and I haven't even sent them anything back yet-I started to feel like I was being yelled at, if I may say so. Like someone was saying, Hey, snap out of it. Take that chance. Do the best you can do, and do your best to give these people what they want, and what they need, which is a LOT less complex than the stuff you (referring to me, here) keep trying to do with online tutorials! But it's scary as hell. It's easy to sound convincing, confident, even established on a discussion forum. But I'm dying to change careers here, to change directions, and graphic design is not something I grew up thinking I would do. I'm not sure exactly what I'm writing,* but this video I think is, at least for me, a very important one and yes, you did get really serious by the end there, but it sounds like the tone of voice someone takes when they CARE about their subjects (in this case, your viewers). You're trying to protect your passion with this video. So I really appreciate it. Every video of yours, I'm so grateful I stumbled upon what you do! *edit: I believe what I'm trying to say is that this video works on a much more sublime level than as just a rant against crowdsourcing, but rather as a deliberation on why anyone (be he graphic designer or businessman) should respect their talents and each other's talents, respect one's self, and to do good work, but to also not be afraid to put a value, a solid worth, to that work.
adarkerlight You don't have to be aggressive or an Alpha to be successful. I should do a video about confidence for graphic designers as well as a general vlog about it. I'm not an alpha type myself, I've scaled to Omega but not in the negative way people portray it. I don't need the approval of the pack mentality to tell me my value and I can survive without it. And unlike a Beta I won't be bullied or made to submit. I for example derive my confidence and power from something very simple "Being Philosophically Consistent". Create Awesome is not just a branding gimmick or a cool shirt that I wear and sell, its my life philosophy, it is the words I live by. I Create Something Awesome Today everyday not just by doing work I love but by creating value for a community of people I care about, all of you and every creative I can touch. What you believe in matters, and if you can't believe in yourself and talents you need to build a philosophy for yourself or adopt one that you can believe in. The Create Awesome philosophy makes us think about execution, legacy and taking responsibility for what we put in the world as creatives. And that is why I share it. If you are embracing and executing on the Create Awesome Philosophy daily, your habits are rapidly shifting and so is your mentality and confidence because you are seeing a measurable result everyday that will build up that self esteem. I spent probably age 15-25 being afraid, of rejection, being hurt or not being accepted. I spent that time pushing people away and being moody and irritable. Since then at 31 I've been over last few years working my way back to when I had it right, 8-10 year old me got it right the first time. I knew exactly who I was and what I was really supposed to do... it may sound naive, but I knew was supposed to make people feel good about themselves. I thought that meant inspiring people with cartoons and comics because those characters and heroes inspired me and made me a better person. I've since found a different path that accomplishes the same goal... When I was younger I was energetic, bold, almost fearless but self aware, empathetic and radically honest. My goal at 31 is to be mentored by 10 year old me. I think that everyone needs a life philosophy and a dream and they need to be consistent and respect their dream while not disrespecting someone else and theirs.
Roberto Blake That's an excellent tale, especially the part about being mentored by your 10-year old self. A video on this would be incredible, I think. I'm older than you, but I started losing the confidence I'd appropriated in college (I did well there) in the real world because of health issues, ageism, and sizism (if there is such a thing): Being only 5'7", I'm not super short, but I look like I'm 18, when I was in my mid-20s, but working a film crew, people really don't take kindly to that. There was this oppression to anyone who wasn't "grunty" doing grunt work. I fit the part of the producer, but I wasn't producing. It was a complete surprise to me and nearly ruined everything I'd worked for by destroying one of the things I love so much: filmmaking. I would be a civil engineer right now if the economy didn't disrupt my life entirely, so I'm trying my hand at creativity once again and while I didn't grow up with graphic design in my life, I find it one of the most fascinating subjects ever. I can't stop looking at logos and designs, everything from street signs to city markers, city logos, items at the supermarket... it's stuff that I'm in awe of, and I have very little self assurance that I can do anything creative like that. However, I want to try. Getting myself involved with this potential client has me anxious a bit, but really I just need to give it my best. Anyway, Rb, if you're finding this an interesting topic-self-esteem for graphic designers-I would definitely appreciate and support a video discussing this. Thanks so much for your fantastic reply.
I completely agree, there is almost little to no one on one with the client. Feedback is so minimal on those websites and you barely never know what the client actually wants. Very true rant
Jet Bustamante Designers have been getting clients without Design contest for years and still continue to do so. The idea that designers NEED these contest to find clients is just lazy... I say that in all honesty. The lack of hustle among creatives is staggering sometimes. You can get clients in a lot of ways, I've lost track of the number of videos and articles I've done explaining how to find clients. You start as early as possible and you start within your own network. You can't use being introverted as an excuse if you want to have a successful career, if you're not willing to work or fight for something you can't complain about the outcome... You ask friends and family and you ask them to refer people to you, you ask former classmates or colleagues, you go to local biz networking events and you hand out business cards, shake hands with people and have conversations. You don't see plumbers and electricians using these sites to get clients... If you simply can't or won't get out from behind the computer and want to stay in your shell, then Master SEO and Social Media Marketing and Bring Clients to you through inbound marketing strategies. Or coordinate with a marketing and biz dev person to be your salesperson and bring you new business and give them a commission.
***** This was a tremendous and detailed comment! I think you should consider getting in the content game if you haven't already because this was very practical and well thought out. I think that way too many people in Creative services today are lacking the will vs the skill to go out and hustle for their clients.
I agree with your opinions wholeheartedly. People can be incredibly unfair and disrespectful to a professional who is trying to work at the job they love and earn some money. We are here to provide the best possible service and creative solution to satisfy any design need they have. I give 100% to every design I do, to do otherwise is foreign to me. I want a client to have the best possible design and I want to be proud of the work I have created. It doesn't cost anything to treat a person with respect and not leave them dangling like a worm on a hook. I get incredibly frustrated with clients who promise work and then are never heard from again, hearts broken over it. Your UA-cam videos, podcast, tweets etc. (also my wife) are keeping me going, but disappointment is starting to chip away at my creative side. Keep up the good work, Sir. More power to you!
Thank you so much for your input on htis matter Roberto Blake , this is definitely not a rant. Many a times it becomes hard when i work for family and friends and i don't know how but it becomes really delicate and awkward discussing payments. Somehow this video helps me justify my part. Thank you for all the informative videos!
Jayshree Sridhar Thanks so much! I consider it a rant because I feel like I had "ranty moments" and went off on tangents, I was a bit aggressive in tonality but I don't feel I was "unfair" to the sites I was talking about if that makes sense. Working with friends and family is only as tough as you let it be. Being in a position to justify things in your own mind makes things less awkward in general. Glad the videos are helping you!
Kudos, man! I agree 100% on all counts! Although I´ve heard & discussed this maaaany times for YEARS in the design, IT & translation business with colleagues and clients... you just nailed it! - 1 on 1 relationship & sinergy are just great, not always really necessary but when the magic happens, you feel it and it does work. - No risk, no business. Period. The professional being hired is running a risk too... - (Self-)Respect. It is a long story and involves basically any freelancer not just in the creative business but IT as well for instance, and even some salary workers.... at least here in Italy. The ´funny´ thing is that people pay you millions if your are in the RIGHT creative niche and they don´t even blink... they have no issues with Hollywood actors, novelists, singers... or even athletes...hell even comedians, why do they have issues with paying the right money for a flyer or website custom-made for them, where they have total control, made to make them money and they can meet the guy but have no problem in buying the next novel of XYZ if not only had they not read it bute even when they´ve never read anything from him/her in the first place?!?! - Go out in the real & virtual world and GET TO KNOW people instead of wasting time for peanuts Keep up the awesome work!
"You cant go to your electrician and say if this works out i'll pay it"!!!! Strong point bro I'm still recovering from that lol Must say your videos are top notch and highlight the REAL perspective. Appreciate the quality information.
Great video about these Crowdsourcing, DesignContest sites. DesignCourse Had a really good series going for a while called The Losing Winner where he critiqued some of these contests and compares some of the entries with the winning design. Most of the time the winning design is crappy. Sometimes some of the designs that were entered in to the contest were better than the winning design which shows how much of a waste of time these types of sites are to the designers.
DesignCourse Ouch, I hear you. On some level I feel that way about a few of these rants. What people don't realize about them is that it is less about me and more about the horror stories I get from designers in various online communities or in private emails or in consulting sessions and the level of abuse they are taking really gets to me and I feel compelled to say something about it... but more than anything it makes me sad...
A couple of things: 1- Is it possible to like a video more than once? Because, YES, YES, and 10X over YES! We have to remember that, at the end of the day, we're service providers. As such, we need to value the value we're providing (does that make sense, or is "respect the value" better?). If we don't, clients will continue to de-value, and we're going to keep attracting those same types of people. Rinse, repeat. That self-confidence is something that all of us struggle with (I know I do from time to time, and I've been at this for a bit now. it wouldn't surprise me if others that are more experienced and "seasoned" struggled with this as well). 2- No hat-holding warning? tsk, tsk. :-) 3- To piggyback a bit on the "squeaky chair" comment I read earlier in the thread-- I've noticed music playing in the background of some of the videos. Is this intentional, ambient noise, or have I finally lost the last shreds of my sanity? Curious. As usual, another quality video. Keep up the awesome work, my friend!
rafael c. armstrong LOL. No warning because it didn't start with the intention of being a rant, but it quickly became one... The music is something I'm experimenting with to see if anyone notices and how it effects watch time and also to see if I want to invest the extra time in rendering and what it adds if anything to the overall production value. Can't decide if I want to keep it or not.
Thanks for inspiration, it really helped me a lot, I'm a graphic designer and to be honest I got lazy with getting clients and this really open my eyes. Thank you again.
Darryl Mitchell No problem, ti happens to a lot of people. I think most of us have habits that we regret at some point in our careers or lives. The important thing is to never stop growing!
Love this so much!! Even back in school I would have this argument, so many students felt like it was a great way to build a portfolio by doing these contests. Some of them won, but most of them are still doing "cheap" design work now even a few years later. I've always held the attitude that I'd rather work a day job, even if it's not my "dream job" and when I do freelance work, to charge what I feel is appropriate for my skills and expertise. I may not do as many "jobs" as some of them, but I'm getting paid more and having a lot more free time. Work smarter not harder right? Not like I'm making big bucks or anything, but I'm not doing logos for $50/100/250. I would also always argue that when an employer sees a bunch of design contest logos in your portfolio, what does that say other than you've established you'll work for cheap because you don't value yourself and if they offer you a job maybe they can offer you a little less then the person before you? I feel like working for cheap devalues our work as creatives, but if they want to gather the half rotten apples under the tree instead of climbing even a few branches up, that just leaves more apples for me. =)
SpikeRukal Glad you agree. Working together to build something usually yields a better result than the approach used by crowdsourcing. It's appeal in terms of convenience is undermining a simple truth.
Slow. Clap. Well said, Roberto! I think this is the longest video of yours that I've watched, but you are totally on the money with this one. Design contests, crowdsourcing, etc == cheap clients. Don't sell your hard-earned work to cheap clients. Let 'em find cheap labor, or do it themselves in Print Shop Pro.
I started to learn Graphic Designing from yesterday only. This video gave a clear picture of Design Contest. From you i came to know the ways to get clients once i become a PRO...!!!
agreed, i used to join these contests and actually winning but now i realize the value of my work and how it degrades my work i stopped joining i think these contests are good for practicing your skills but that's just my opinion, but to make a career out of it is somehow wrong
A while ago I was looking up design contests but not this type. I was looking for some contests like the Communication Arts Design Annual, Graphic Design USA, etc as a way to get some work featured in those types of publications. I know you talk about how you were featured on the cover of Photoshop Magazine and that helped you as a designer. I know you have done videos about designers starting their own blogs and using social media as a way to market yourself, but can you also do a video about how to get your work in magazines and more "legitimate" design competitions.
***** The communication arts and legitimate competitions are GREAT! That is the illusion these other websites paint though, its why they use the phrase contest, they want to borrow that prestige and that is why they say Prize. If they were honest they'd call themselves SPEC WORK sites and they would say that you awarded the job, not that it is a prize. When I talked about Photoshop Magazine I was printed in it twice and won an editors choice award, I was never on the cover, I mentioned I have friends who have been featured on the cover. I need to get back into submitting my personal art to magazines again, maybe even writing for some of them....
Thanks for setting the record straight on that. Those types of contests I would love to enter cause even if you don't win, to even be featured in the magazine is an honor and great for marketing as a designer in itself. Something that really helps you stand out as one of the best in the industry.
This is complicated topic. Customers who doesn't understand things you mentioned will still making new crowdsourcing competitions and thik how good it is. I mean they will probably never see this video or other topics about crowdsourcing and never realize how bad competitions are for both sides. Personally as beginning webdesigner i sometimes joined this competitions (even if you get money, you still have that material which you can use in your portfolio), i won 3 competitions in 6 months (80 designs = 3 won = 800usd), which isn't that bad, i could earn it in 3 months by doing some regular stuff in local shop, but making designs i got at least some experience in this field. One thing i found quite bad is that some customers on 99designs run several competitions in the same time. There was user who had 4 contests (4x logo design for different products), and he never choose winner. Seems like some graphic companies/freelancers using crownsourcing as idea-stock and then selling it for their real cusomers using that 100% money back system.
VirtualReawer There are places doing that ripoff ideas game, and I forgot to mention it in this video but I will probably do a 5 Reasons CrowdSourcing is Dangerous for Graphic Design in addition to 5 Reasons (IMO) Fiverr is Dangerous to Graphic Design.
VirtualReawer Also I will do a small biz video about should you using crowdsourcing. I will go slightly more balanced there since I would need to be persuasive. There are instances where crowdsourcing can be okay, but I don't think generally for creative services, I think for work that will be done with a clock on it, you can use things like that and Fiverr, but not stuff that takes an unknown amount of time. a 5-10 minute Website audit or evaluation or consult for $5-10 could be a good deal for everyone for example, this is refereed to as micro-consulting. I could see it for audio transcription working well or producing a jingle or for voice acting. Those things make sense.
Yes!!! I totally agree! These websites are crazy. I looked around for some freelance work and stumbled on a website where you had to quote customers on certain jobs they wanted to be done. Then the client could pick based on whoever they liked through email. (I was assuming I'll send a link to my portfolio and give them a estimated price and that would be that) So I thought, oh this sounds good bc I can tell them kinda how much it would be and email them and get a feel for what they want. Nope! You had to pay to send them a quote or any email. Excuse me? I have to pay to say "hey I can do a logo for you for x amount of dollars" then out of the 200 people who quoted them they can pick and choose and your out money if you don't get picked. Most of them had big ideas on what they wanted design wise which is great but it said their budget was less than 250 dollars.(so they are obviously like these websites where their goal is to "get design work for cheap") And also I saw a number of "ads" on the website that stated in the details of their project.."when quoting please give me proofs on this project". So not only are u paying to quote them, they want you to do the work and they get to choose if they want to pay you or not.. It blows my mind graphic designers would buy in to this.
this is very true as a beginner we might want to try this websites as skill's sharpener but end of the day it's frustrating when even your design rated 5 star and you got eliminated. because the entries goes up to 21 to 140 rapidly.
Peter Kažimír Thanks Peter! I believe in creating value for other people. On rare instances I will do something for someone, even someone I don't know very well, completely for free, because I'm feeling generous. But I am at a point in my career where I have that luxury and may want to build a relationship where I've decide I'm "investing" in someone else for a reason. A cause can be a charity or it can be someone you think deserves a win.
Interesting topic and a lot of factors that go into it. I think a lot of the problem is that non-creatives assume they know how creative design works and that they understand far more than they do. Especially in the self-publishing industry, I have seen just straight-up atrocious ebook covers that the author brags about getting for cheap and seems very pleased with. To me, and anyone else with any kind of eye for it, they look awful (might be poor font choice, poor balance overall, etc.). But to the author's untrained eye, they look great. It's words and a picture and nothing's even pixelated! The cover will hurt the author's sales, but the author doesn't even realize the design of the cover is an issue and thinks people just don't like his story. How do you solve that? How do you get functionally "blind" clients to start understanding good design so they can then understand why it's worth paying for?
Great video. I've had several brand contests offers and I alway deny them. I give my clients full attention and focus. I have invested in hardware, software, time, education all to make me a better illustrator and designer. So I always have skin in the game. "Good design is good business". That's my outlook.
I remember about a year ago i was surfing the web trying to find graphic design work, being new to the field and came across DesignCrowd. i made my account and starting doing contest only a couple weeks later did i realize i was bending my head over a brick wall. I hate crowd sourcing sites but i think crowd sourcing is good when used right. For example when i was in high school (a career technical school) seniors got to work with real world clients in a crowd source like style but with only like 10 or 12 people. My class was fortunate enough to get a client at the end of our junior year. We all designed like three or four logos each for the client. But me not knowing what i was doing kinda a rushed it, which kinda turned out good. I was then given the opportunity to design their website (using Wix because the client didn't know html or use dreamweaver). I think this kind of crowd sourcing is used the right way. 1) You get to talk one an one in person. 2) You can get your logo design with some mild or major alterations. 3) Gives new designers some experience and exposure.
I'm a commercial photographer. Right now, I'm dealing with a client that wants to pay me half my rate ... I now it's not the same as being asked to work for free, but I'd send them this video if I knew for certain that I wouldn't burn any bridges...
Have you checked out the website DesignContest? I actually have interaction with the contest holder to make adjustments and work with them to create a design that they are looking for. I still have not won any of the contests but my designs are improving by leaps and bounds and have actually earned third place in a few contests.
This actual a very great in site on crowd funding and how it can mess up a graphic designer who has just started or been in the game for a while. I personally haven't done a actual design or illustration for these sites; but, I have mentioned it to people like my sister. I first heard about these site (not fiver) from a coworker who used the sites to produce work. I personally started talking with people at my job and did some graphic designer and tons of fine art work and I can understand that connection you get with the client. But after I lost my job for assumptional reason I wasn't able to get anymore work outside and I've been looking. My questions is what can I do to better my chances to gain work as a illustrator/graphic designer?
Great video, one thing I have a horrible story I'll make it short, I went to a design school wayyy back when graduated in 94, the school has since shut down lol my fault for going to this school I know, any how I love design I really am trying to get back into it I have no portfolio at this time can I use the contest to build my portfolio, because no matter what you say if I have one logo and you have a 1000 piece portfolio I'm not getting a job over you not in a million years,so do you think it is OK to use design contest s to build?
I'm in a situation currently that I'm interested to hear your opinion on. I used to play a game that allowed for multi-player (5-100) clans/alliances to be formed. These groups could brandish a custom emblem for an in-game premium. When I played, and when I first started doing graphic design, I made my first ever logo/emblem for my clan. I'm very interested in offering to make emblems for the game's community, but really don't want to charge them. They won't be in a position to make money off of the emblem, nor are they really eager to pay someone to make it. What do you think about working for free in this situation? Both you and Will Paterson (correct spelling?) have been very outspoken about -NEVER- working for free, but I really think this is a case where I could work for free, at my own pace, and build a really cool portfolio. TL;DR: Is it okay to do work for free if it's for a person/group that will be making exactly $0 off of the emblem/logo?
Coobap If you want to do it that is your call, but even if they can't make money off of it, you are still giving up your time for free, and your time has value. Like I said it is your call. Charities make $0 and they still pay for services from people, they don't get electricity for free. Some business do things they will make $0 but they still pay a service provider or vendor. If you feel your time and energy is worth $0 because someone else won't profit that is your call, but in the end they are getting something cool. You didn't make a profit off of your shoes, but someone still had to pay for them.
I remember a fellow GD saying about contest that they were as if someone went to a restaurant ask all the chef to cook for him and only pay for the plate that he ate. That comparison stuck with me and made me hate contest even more.
People who don't know or care about design want it as quick and cheap as possible. You get what you pay for. People don't want to pay. It is the reason why Groups such as Stop Working For Free pop up in faecesbook.
***** It's the same thing with any other bad idea. The question is are we going to allow ourselves to live in a world where we don't autocorrect bad behavior?
What do you think about designcrowd? I'm using that website right now. I'm having a good and safe experience so far..it's not really a contest but have you ever heard of it?
Roberto Blake I've been a working artist for many many years. This isn't new. There was a group, way back, that had a great manifesto on this AND the policy of charging artists a "jurying fee" to POSSIBLY be in a show. Artists are the last people on earth who can afford this. I do understand that if there is a judge or group that needs to convene in person to look at physical slides, they should get paid something. But even back in 1980, sometimes entry fees were $30 for EACH work submitted. This is an ongoing thing. Everybody else makes a cut, and the artists come away with pennies. Thanks for your excellent videos, Roberto. You rock.
Hey Roberto, I've came up with an idea to send a small letter with information on my services with a businesscard attached on it.. I know its old fashioned, but I believe that Art directors would appreciate a letter alot more then a random email popping up in their inbox.. what do you think?
Lucki Rockit I think it may be a good way to make a warm contact, but if you're going to go that far you may want to make it a hand written letter on nice stationary and in print, not cursive and very legible. I think they may appreciate a handwritten letter as it is something they probably haven't gotten in a decade or in their lifetime depending on age.
I use 99designs for logos right now, I have won multiple contest and they are using my logos right now, but sometimes when you work so hard on a logo and you don't win. It's not worth it, I only work on sports bar logo contest.
Yeah i never understood how that worked, i seen many contest on 99designs with over like 20 designers contestants competing for a client with a 600$ budget.
+Raychristofer While I appreciate the intention of the compliment, there is not nearly enough money or freedom in being a high school teacher. I don't do very well with being given too much structure and I'm not a fan of repeating myself. This format of teaching is best suited to my skills and personality.
I want to go to events but I don't have the capital to make things I have a job but I have dreams of making things but how do I do it i know I need to get out there and contact people but yeah
Roberto Blake thanks for the advice Roberto your videos are so precise about every inch of detail it's a dog eat dog world so many people need to network with more people a lot more
I am 17 yet I have been doing graphic design sense I was in seventh grade so like most designers I have things and room to learn but, I know a good amount of graphic design. Where could I find client and start getting work. And your totally right about the graphic competitions it's a rip off and wast of time.
andre gomez You need to start by learning about business. Honestly while it is possible to make money in any creative field before you're 18 I think that most young people take it for granted and don't learn nearly enough about business, or contracts or what their rights are or what their expectations should be, and just think about getting money doing something fun. .. I probably need to do a video about this. Don't start with the internet, start with friends and family and referrals from them. Start with small businesses in your local community. Do that and also start building up your portfolio and your online presence. Don't try to grow too fast, take it all in and concentrate on learning and building on those relationships you already have. After 2-3 years of learning and figuring out your style and how to communicate and also who you want to do work with and what your habits are, then you can really start thinking about growing and by then clients will likely be on their way to you.
Thanks it makes sense to learn business, my plan for many years has been to go to college for a major business and minor in graphic design. Though I'm always learning at home and on my own for example I took a photography class at my school and of all year I learned my camera witch is a xti, and the schools cameras 2ti, 3 ti, and cannon 60d, inside out. Also I learned composition and color theory, rule of thirds and so on. All that before the rest of the class was shooting in anything more than auto. This I don't mean to brag because inn no way am I proud of being fast nor do I think I was all that fast just I study at school then I come home and learn till dinner, i don't really know why but, when I learn I go to extremes of learning like that and part of it is I have the resources like in this example I have my own camera to shoot with wherever. Anyways thanks and I'll keep your advice in mind as I move forward.
great video Roberto .! i am always a fan ! and i want to share a story with you . yesterday i told to my grandma that i want to go at the art school and then be a graphic designer . she said that s not a real job and i will be a useless men because hear at Greece everyone thinks like a di** ... why people don't understand thats a real job ? (also i know that you make many vlogs about that ;) )
If You want to build Your portfolio and You are running out of ideas, or simply don't have one, You can use those croud sourcing websites, like 99designs, but ONLY to build Your portfolio, DONT enter the design contest. I gues You can do that.
PTedro Yes, but you could also use brief box, or you can always look for designs in the real world you don't like a re-design them for your portfolio. For every reason or excuse a person might use to go to one of these sites there is answer that is something Designers have been doing for DECADES without these sites. If people HONESTLY are saying this is the reason, then I will get together with some of the other designers here on UA-cam like Stephen Looney , ***** and Will Paterson and we will look at making some type of brief resource or project list. I'm sure each of could probably pull 30 briefs off the top of our head for projects. But honestly, if people aren't creative enough to solve that problem, they are really going to struggle creatively when it comes to working with actual clients who rarely if ever know what they want...
yeah it's true but there are many "new" designers can make some creations more pro and good creations than profissional designers btw many of these creative amateurs can't afford money for Photoshop or a mac or smthing like that
i'd be careful on the charities. some of em are corrupt. i should know i work for oen that works the shit out of you and pays nothing for it. so bad im going to have to take a semester off and find something different to finish up school with. :)
![More Thoughts on Fiverr and Graphic Design [Rant]](/img/n.gif)
The biggest problem I have with crowd sourcing is that most of the time the contest holder chooses a really bad design. They themselves don't have an eye for design and don't know what it takes for consistent branding. In my opinion that is detrimental to a business. These contest holders don't realize that there is a lot more work than just coming up with a cool icon with some text and pretty colors. The consulting, research, planning and everything that goes into a visual identity should be viewed as essential. Not expendable. And should be guided by a professional that knows what they're doing and is there to help the business grow. It pains me to see some of the designs people have chosen and paid for.
Nate Alspaugh We have an age where since so many people can find there way into business and where Alpha persona's can become decision makers despite making bad decisions... quality all around is diminishing and cool factor and convenience is winning, and thus losers are running the show...it may sound harsh but it is the sad truth. Intellectuals and Creatives are being devalued more and more by the masses but the people smart enough to continue to value them are winning long term. Historically that has always been the case, we're just seeing it at scale.
As a 16 year old going through school working on projects and portfolio building I find 99designs helpful as a brief website, the logos I make go into my portfolio and if I win then that's fine but I definitly wouldn't rely on contests for a living.
Totally agree with you on this Roberto, I have been in Graphic Design for 7 years and I am so sick of clients trying to exploit me and expect my time and effort for free!
Kate Gribble Exactly. I'm sorry you've had to experience that. I feel there is no excuse. People can make the biz argument all they want, but they don't play that game with their lawyers or accountants, we're no less important to the business, marketing matters and people need to respect that we are "marketers" but it will happen when Designers stop letting themselves be considered "Starving Artists".
Roberto Blake yes I have had to learn things the hard way about charging people for my work, it's like when you said about creatives feeling bad for charging because they enjoy what they do. That is exactly how I felt and I had no idea why, luckily that's not how I do things now. I wish I found your videos when I first graduated University, I have learnt so much more since watching them about how to market myself and how to interact with clients. Thank you for putting them up and helping other designers/creatives like myself.
Kate Gribble
No problem. I've also started a podcast where I can go deeper into education and motivation so that when people can't watch a video like on their commute or while at the office I can give them advice and motivation.
It's in iTunes and SoundCloud, its called the Create Something Awesome Today Podcast!
Best of luck
Thank you! Thank you for using your platform to be a voice for our community...
Eric Truesdale No problem!
Very well said Roberto. This subject comes up all to often in conversations with my fellow artists. I don't know what we have to do to drive these issues home to the point where more clients recognize the value of creative professionals and creatives recognize their own value, but I plan to continue to harp on this subject until the day that it happens.
Try to put them in your shoes, ppl grow up and lose their empathy, ask them if they want to be handled that way.
The guilt because you enjoy your work
that was so spot on!
Thank you for this Roberto!
I guess the main reason why beginners do these contents (including me) was because it's so difficult getting clients starting out, and you get a small chance in these contests just because of the quality of your work.
Masna bin umeed I recommend using your network of personal contacts when starting out. Most people do this when getting their first jobs but neglect it when getting their first clients. Referral business still works wonders.
I started watching your videos about a week ago and you speak the truth on so many issues. I personally am pursuing a career in software/web development, but I do have an eye for design so I plan on expanding my skills. The principles and ideas you talk about apply not only to graphic designers, but to all fields of work. I honestly feel inspired to go and improve myself after watching you speak from experience. I really enjoy your videos.
***** Thank you for that tremendous comment. My goal is to educate and motivate people. It doesn't matter if it is someone coming from tech, marketing or design. I'm glad I helped you!
This video as well as the video about Fiverr were motivation for me to use these services lol
If you read between the lines it's pretty clear that clients benefit greatly.
Design contests seem like a great way to get a ton of creativity that you simply cannot get from just one designer.
I can see how hiring one designer is okay if you already know what you want specifically and you know someone can put that on paper but if you need ideas... inspiration.... this is the way to go.
Thank you for saying this both from the business side, and the design side. Creatives deserve respect and to be valued. And we need to value ourselves!
As for the getting clients portion, if you live in a remote place like I do, network through your friends, find Facebook and Google+ groups, participate in Twitter Chats. Just network network network! Build real relationships with people. Don't push your services just build relationships. The work will come from that. I have a wonderful client who refers me to her friends like crazy because I took the time to really build a relationship with her on more than a business level. All business is a relationship game. Get good at building them and you will have a thriving business. (Sorry I got a little ranty too lol!)
This "rant" is a PERFECT example of Roberto "creating something awesome today."
Well done, bud. Your tact inspired me tonight, and I needed it.
Please, know that your extended designer family is out here (all over the world) and we see you.
Great job, and thanks again..... Keep speaking.
Really well said. I talked with you some time ago about this topic and this video answers all of my questions about graphic design contests! I still participate in some contests, it helps me to improve my graphic design skills by competing with other people. Even tho I can't win all of the contests, all of my work goes to my portfolio as concept designs, that also helps to get more clients, imo. Anyway, thanks for this video, it was really helpful and informative as always!
great video , i was also on a design contest site and the reason i stopped was that in the open design contests, if you design gets a high rating people will start to copy and slightly tweak your design causing you to have to come up with a different design ,so you don't get lost in the sea of copycats.
jowiemonster Indeed!
it really sucks the life out of you to see someone else win with a tweaked version of your design.
This is an amazing video, a very important one that definitely speaks to me. Not because of crowdsourcing (I don't do it; never looked into it), but this video is *very* interesting regarding self-esteem. You mention boxers and CEOs who have no issue charging so much money for what they need or what they do, but these are alpha-type people. I am on the verge of becoming an official "freelance graphic designer" because I finally have a potential client; however, I *need* to prove to myself that I'm worthy of this corporation, so I'm doing some work on spec, even though they need a whole slew of stuff.
I grew up with a fear of myself, with a fear of what I'm capable of doing or not being able to do, and I've watched hundreds of Illustrator videos on YT, trying my hand at many of them (and learning the program in the meantime), with each video proving to me how amazing everyone else is. It is so difficult for me to even remotely *think* I can do what everyone here does, and has proven with their YT videos.
So while watching this video-and discovering a new email about more work that these people may want, and I haven't even sent them anything back yet-I started to feel like I was being yelled at, if I may say so. Like someone was saying, Hey, snap out of it. Take that chance. Do the best you can do, and do your best to give these people what they want, and what they need, which is a LOT less complex than the stuff you (referring to me, here) keep trying to do with online tutorials!
But it's scary as hell. It's easy to sound convincing, confident, even established on a discussion forum. But I'm dying to change careers here, to change directions, and graphic design is not something I grew up thinking I would do.
I'm not sure exactly what I'm writing,* but this video I think is, at least for me, a very important one and yes, you did get really serious by the end there, but it sounds like the tone of voice someone takes when they CARE about their subjects (in this case, your viewers). You're trying to protect your passion with this video.
So I really appreciate it. Every video of yours, I'm so grateful I stumbled upon what you do!
*edit: I believe what I'm trying to say is that this video works on a much more sublime level than as just a rant against crowdsourcing, but rather as a deliberation on why anyone (be he graphic designer or businessman) should respect their talents and each other's talents, respect one's self, and to do good work, but to also not be afraid to put a value, a solid worth, to that work.
adarkerlight You don't have to be aggressive or an Alpha to be successful. I should do a video about confidence for graphic designers as well as a general vlog about it. I'm not an alpha type myself, I've scaled to Omega but not in the negative way people portray it. I don't need the approval of the pack mentality to tell me my value and I can survive without it. And unlike a Beta I won't be bullied or made to submit.
I for example derive my confidence and power from something very simple "Being Philosophically Consistent". Create Awesome is not just a branding gimmick or a cool shirt that I wear and sell, its my life philosophy, it is the words I live by. I Create Something Awesome Today everyday not just by doing work I love but by creating value for a community of people I care about, all of you and every creative I can touch.
What you believe in matters, and if you can't believe in yourself and talents you need to build a philosophy for yourself or adopt one that you can believe in. The Create Awesome philosophy makes us think about execution, legacy and taking responsibility for what we put in the world as creatives. And that is why I share it.
If you are embracing and executing on the Create Awesome Philosophy daily, your habits are rapidly shifting and so is your mentality and confidence because you are seeing a measurable result everyday that will build up that self esteem.
I spent probably age 15-25 being afraid, of rejection, being hurt or not being accepted. I spent that time pushing people away and being moody and irritable. Since then at 31 I've been over last few years working my way back to when I had it right, 8-10 year old me got it right the first time. I knew exactly who I was and what I was really supposed to do... it may sound naive, but I knew was supposed to make people feel good about themselves. I thought that meant inspiring people with cartoons and comics because those characters and heroes inspired me and made me a better person. I've since found a different path that accomplishes the same goal... When I was younger I was energetic, bold, almost fearless but self aware, empathetic and radically honest. My goal at 31 is to be mentored by 10 year old me.
I think that everyone needs a life philosophy and a dream and they need to be consistent and respect their dream while not disrespecting someone else and theirs.
Roberto Blake That's an excellent tale, especially the part about being mentored by your 10-year old self. A video on this would be incredible, I think. I'm older than you, but I started losing the confidence I'd appropriated in college (I did well there) in the real world because of health issues, ageism, and sizism (if there is such a thing): Being only 5'7", I'm not super short, but I look like I'm 18, when I was in my mid-20s, but working a film crew, people really don't take kindly to that. There was this oppression to anyone who wasn't "grunty" doing grunt work. I fit the part of the producer, but I wasn't producing. It was a complete surprise to me and nearly ruined everything I'd worked for by destroying one of the things I love so much: filmmaking.
I would be a civil engineer right now if the economy didn't disrupt my life entirely, so I'm trying my hand at creativity once again and while I didn't grow up with graphic design in my life, I find it one of the most fascinating subjects ever. I can't stop looking at logos and designs, everything from street signs to city markers, city logos, items at the supermarket... it's stuff that I'm in awe of, and I have very little self assurance that I can do anything creative like that. However, I want to try. Getting myself involved with this potential client has me anxious a bit, but really I just need to give it my best.
Anyway, Rb, if you're finding this an interesting topic-self-esteem for graphic designers-I would definitely appreciate and support a video discussing this.
Thanks so much for your fantastic reply.
I completely agree, there is almost little to no one on one with the client. Feedback is so minimal on those websites and you barely never know what the client actually wants. Very true rant
BE Designs Thanks. I think communication is the largest overall failing of these types of platforms.
Thanks Roberto for this and all the value you provide. This video always keeps me in check and to be assertive.
Jordan Cuellar Thanks. Yeah we all need that from time to time.
Jet Bustamante Designers have been getting clients without Design contest for years and still continue to do so. The idea that designers NEED these contest to find clients is just lazy... I say that in all honesty. The lack of hustle among creatives is staggering sometimes. You can get clients in a lot of ways, I've lost track of the number of videos and articles I've done explaining how to find clients.
You start as early as possible and you start within your own network. You can't use being introverted as an excuse if you want to have a successful career, if you're not willing to work or fight for something you can't complain about the outcome...
You ask friends and family and you ask them to refer people to you, you ask former classmates or colleagues, you go to local biz networking events and you hand out business cards, shake hands with people and have conversations.
You don't see plumbers and electricians using these sites to get clients... If you simply can't or won't get out from behind the computer and want to stay in your shell, then Master SEO and Social Media Marketing and Bring Clients to you through inbound marketing strategies.
Or coordinate with a marketing and biz dev person to be your salesperson and bring you new business and give them a commission.
Very true!
*****
This was a tremendous and detailed comment! I think you should consider getting in the content game if you haven't already because this was very practical and well thought out. I think that way too many people in Creative services today are lacking the will vs the skill to go out and hustle for their clients.
Roberto Blake can you watch a couple videos on my channel and tell me what I have done wrong and what should I improve on (i won't be offended)
I agree with your opinions wholeheartedly. People can be incredibly unfair and disrespectful to a professional who is trying to work at the job they love and earn some money. We are here to provide the best possible service and creative solution to satisfy any design need they have. I give 100% to every design I do, to do otherwise is foreign to me. I want a client to have the best possible design and I want to be proud of the work I have created. It doesn't cost anything to treat a person with respect and not leave them dangling like a worm on a hook. I get incredibly frustrated with clients who promise work and then are never heard from again, hearts broken over it. Your UA-cam videos, podcast, tweets etc. (also my wife) are keeping me going, but disappointment is starting to chip away at my creative side. Keep up the good work, Sir. More power to you!
Thank you so much for your input on htis matter Roberto Blake , this is definitely not a rant. Many a times it becomes hard when i work for family and friends and i don't know how but it becomes really delicate and awkward discussing payments. Somehow this video helps me justify my part. Thank you for all the informative videos!
Jayshree Sridhar Thanks so much! I consider it a rant because I feel like I had "ranty moments" and went off on tangents, I was a bit aggressive in tonality but I don't feel I was "unfair" to the sites I was talking about if that makes sense. Working with friends and family is only as tough as you let it be. Being in a position to justify things in your own mind makes things less awkward in general. Glad the videos are helping you!
Kudos, man! I agree 100% on all counts! Although I´ve heard & discussed this maaaany times for YEARS in the design, IT & translation business with colleagues and clients... you just nailed it!
- 1 on 1 relationship & sinergy are just great, not always really necessary but when the magic happens, you feel it and it does work.
- No risk, no business. Period. The professional being hired is running a risk too...
- (Self-)Respect. It is a long story and involves basically any freelancer not just in the creative business but IT as well for instance, and even some salary workers.... at least here in Italy. The ´funny´ thing is that people pay you millions if your are in the RIGHT creative niche and they don´t even blink... they have no issues with Hollywood actors, novelists, singers... or even athletes...hell even comedians, why do they have issues with paying the right money for a flyer or website custom-made for them, where they have total control, made to make them money and they can meet the guy but have no problem in buying the next novel of XYZ if not only had they not read it bute even when they´ve never read anything from him/her in the first place?!?!
- Go out in the real & virtual world and GET TO KNOW people instead of wasting time for peanuts
Keep up the awesome work!
"You cant go to your electrician and say if this works out i'll pay it"!!!! Strong point bro I'm still recovering from that lol
Must say your videos are top notch and highlight the REAL perspective. Appreciate the quality information.
beanheadshop Thanks for that, and thanks for watching!
Great video about these Crowdsourcing, DesignContest sites. DesignCourse Had a really good series going for a while called The Losing Winner where he critiqued some of these contests and compares some of the entries with the winning design. Most of the time the winning design is crappy. Sometimes some of the designs that were entered in to the contest were better than the winning design which shows how much of a waste of time these types of sites are to the designers.
***** LOL the Losing Winner, I like that...
It was depressing making those videos. The client's always right?? Pffft ;)
DesignCourse
Ouch, I hear you. On some level I feel that way about a few of these rants. What people don't realize about them is that it is less about me and more about the horror stories I get from designers in various online communities or in private emails or in consulting sessions and the level of abuse they are taking really gets to me and I feel compelled to say something about it... but more than anything it makes me sad...
A couple of things:
1- Is it possible to like a video more than once? Because, YES, YES, and 10X over YES! We have to remember that, at the end of the day, we're service providers. As such, we need to value the value we're providing (does that make sense, or is "respect the value" better?). If we don't, clients will continue to de-value, and we're going to keep attracting those same types of people. Rinse, repeat. That self-confidence is something that all of us struggle with (I know I do from time to time, and I've been at this for a bit now. it wouldn't surprise me if others that are more experienced and "seasoned" struggled with this as well).
2- No hat-holding warning? tsk, tsk. :-)
3- To piggyback a bit on the "squeaky chair" comment I read earlier in the thread-- I've noticed music playing in the background of some of the videos. Is this intentional, ambient noise, or have I finally lost the last shreds of my sanity? Curious.
As usual, another quality video. Keep up the awesome work, my friend!
rafael c. armstrong LOL. No warning because it didn't start with the intention of being a rant, but it quickly became one... The music is something I'm experimenting with to see if anyone notices and how it effects watch time and also to see if I want to invest the extra time in rendering and what it adds if anything to the overall production value. Can't decide if I want to keep it or not.
Fair comment - interesting to see that the feeling towards design contests is the same in the US as it is here in the UK. Thanks for the video
Thanks for inspiration, it really helped me a lot, I'm a graphic designer and to be honest I got lazy with getting clients and this really open my eyes. Thank you again.
Darryl Mitchell No problem, ti happens to a lot of people. I think most of us have habits that we regret at some point in our careers or lives. The important thing is to never stop growing!
Love this so much!! Even back in school I would have this argument, so many students felt like it was a great way to build a portfolio by doing these contests. Some of them won, but most of them are still doing "cheap" design work now even a few years later. I've always held the attitude that I'd rather work a day job, even if it's not my "dream job" and when I do freelance work, to charge what I feel is appropriate for my skills and expertise. I may not do as many "jobs" as some of them, but I'm getting paid more and having a lot more free time. Work smarter not harder right? Not like I'm making big bucks or anything, but I'm not doing logos for $50/100/250. I would also always argue that when an employer sees a bunch of design contest logos in your portfolio, what does that say other than you've established you'll work for cheap because you don't value yourself and if they offer you a job maybe they can offer you a little less then the person before you? I feel like working for cheap devalues our work as creatives, but if they want to gather the half rotten apples under the tree instead of climbing even a few branches up, that just leaves more apples for me. =)
I agree with you on this. In order to create intelligent design, a little research and collaboration is needed between you and the client.
SpikeRukal Glad you agree. Working together to build something usually yields a better result than the approach used by crowdsourcing. It's appeal in terms of convenience is undermining a simple truth.
Slow. Clap. Well said, Roberto! I think this is the longest video of yours that I've watched, but you are totally on the money with this one. Design contests, crowdsourcing, etc == cheap clients. Don't sell your hard-earned work to cheap clients. Let 'em find cheap labor, or do it themselves in Print Shop Pro.
I started to learn Graphic Designing from yesterday only. This video gave a clear picture of Design Contest. From you i came to know the ways to get clients once i become a PRO...!!!
Awesome
agreed, i used to join these contests and actually winning but now i realize the value of my work and how it degrades my work i stopped joining i think these contests are good for practicing your skills but that's just my opinion, but to make a career out of it is somehow wrong
A while ago I was looking up design contests but not this type. I was looking for some contests like the Communication Arts Design Annual, Graphic Design USA, etc as a way to get some work featured in those types of publications. I know you talk about how you were featured on the cover of Photoshop Magazine and that helped you as a designer. I know you have done videos about designers starting their own blogs and using social media as a way to market yourself, but can you also do a video about how to get your work in magazines and more "legitimate" design competitions.
***** The communication arts and legitimate competitions are GREAT! That is the illusion these other websites paint though, its why they use the phrase contest, they want to borrow that prestige and that is why they say Prize. If they were honest they'd call themselves SPEC WORK sites and they would say that you awarded the job, not that it is a prize. When I talked about Photoshop Magazine I was printed in it twice and won an editors choice award, I was never on the cover, I mentioned I have friends who have been featured on the cover. I need to get back into submitting my personal art to magazines again, maybe even writing for some of them....
Thanks for setting the record straight on that. Those types of contests I would love to enter cause even if you don't win, to even be featured in the magazine is an honor and great for marketing as a designer in itself. Something that really helps you stand out as one of the best in the industry.
This is complicated topic. Customers who doesn't understand things you mentioned will still making new crowdsourcing competitions and thik how good it is. I mean they will probably never see this video or other topics about crowdsourcing and never realize how bad competitions are for both sides. Personally as beginning webdesigner i sometimes joined this competitions (even if you get money, you still have that material which you can use in your portfolio), i won 3 competitions in 6 months (80 designs = 3 won = 800usd), which isn't that bad, i could earn it in 3 months by doing some regular stuff in local shop, but making designs i got at least some experience in this field. One thing i found quite bad is that some customers on 99designs run several competitions in the same time. There was user who had 4 contests (4x logo design for different products), and he never choose winner. Seems like some graphic companies/freelancers using crownsourcing as idea-stock and then selling it for their real cusomers using that 100% money back system.
VirtualReawer There are places doing that ripoff ideas game, and I forgot to mention it in this video but I will probably do a 5 Reasons CrowdSourcing is Dangerous for Graphic Design in addition to 5 Reasons (IMO) Fiverr is Dangerous to Graphic Design.
VirtualReawer Also I will do a small biz video about should you using crowdsourcing. I will go slightly more balanced there since I would need to be persuasive. There are instances where crowdsourcing can be okay, but I don't think generally for creative services, I think for work that will be done with a clock on it, you can use things like that and Fiverr, but not stuff that takes an unknown amount of time. a 5-10 minute Website audit or evaluation or consult for $5-10 could be a good deal for everyone for example, this is refereed to as micro-consulting. I could see it for audio transcription working well or producing a jingle or for voice acting. Those things make sense.
This is very true Roberto! Well said.
keifer simpson Thanks.
Yes!!! I totally agree! These websites are crazy. I looked around for some freelance work and stumbled on a website where you had to quote customers on certain jobs they wanted to be done. Then the client could pick based on whoever they liked through email. (I was assuming I'll send a link to my portfolio and give them a estimated price and that would be that) So I thought, oh this sounds good bc I can tell them kinda how much it would be and email them and get a feel for what they want. Nope! You had to pay to send them a quote or any email. Excuse me? I have to pay to say "hey I can do a logo for you for x amount of dollars" then out of the 200 people who quoted them they can pick and choose and your out money if you don't get picked. Most of them had big ideas on what they wanted design wise which is great but it said their budget was less than 250 dollars.(so they are obviously like these websites where their goal is to "get design work for cheap") And also I saw a number of "ads" on the website that stated in the details of their project.."when quoting please give me proofs on this project". So not only are u paying to quote them, they want you to do the work and they get to choose if they want to pay you or not.. It blows my mind graphic designers would buy in to this.
Bingo
this is very true as a beginner we might want to try this websites as skill's sharpener
but end of the day it's frustrating when even your design rated 5 star and you got eliminated. because the entries goes up to 21 to 140 rapidly.
you totally got me when you said that if you do something for free, do it for a cause... big thumbs up!!
Peter Kažimír Thanks Peter! I believe in creating value for other people. On rare instances I will do something for someone, even someone I don't know very well, completely for free, because I'm feeling generous. But I am at a point in my career where I have that luxury and may want to build a relationship where I've decide I'm "investing" in someone else for a reason. A cause can be a charity or it can be someone you think deserves a win.
Really the only reason i do design contests is because i'm not to sure how to do freelancing as a young graphic designer only being 14.
+Geffers getdesignfor.me
Interesting topic and a lot of factors that go into it. I think a lot of the problem is that non-creatives assume they know how creative design works and that they understand far more than they do.
Especially in the self-publishing industry, I have seen just straight-up atrocious ebook covers that the author brags about getting for cheap and seems very pleased with. To me, and anyone else with any kind of eye for it, they look awful (might be poor font choice, poor balance overall, etc.). But to the author's untrained eye, they look great. It's words and a picture and nothing's even pixelated!
The cover will hurt the author's sales, but the author doesn't even realize the design of the cover is an issue and thinks people just don't like his story.
How do you solve that? How do you get functionally "blind" clients to start understanding good design so they can then understand why it's worth paying for?
Really good points made. Great job!
Great video. I've had several brand contests offers and I alway deny them. I give my clients full attention and focus. I have invested in hardware, software, time, education all to make me a better illustrator and designer. So I always have skin in the game. "Good design is good business". That's my outlook.
ROBERTO OROZCO You have the right outlook!
I remember about a year ago i was surfing the web trying to find graphic design work, being new to the field and came across DesignCrowd. i made my account and starting doing contest only a couple weeks later did i realize i was bending my head over a brick wall.
I hate crowd sourcing sites but i think crowd sourcing is good when used right. For example when i was in high school (a career technical school) seniors got to work with real world clients in a crowd source like style but with only like 10 or 12 people. My class was fortunate enough to get a client at the end of our junior year. We all designed like three or four logos each for the client. But me not knowing what i was doing kinda a rushed it, which kinda turned out good. I was then given the opportunity to design their website (using Wix because the client didn't know html or use dreamweaver).
I think this kind of crowd sourcing is used the right way. 1) You get to talk one an one in person. 2) You can get your logo design with some mild or major alterations. 3) Gives new designers some experience and exposure.
Most things are not inherently bad but are often misused
I'm a commercial photographer. Right now, I'm dealing with a client that wants to pay me half my rate ... I now it's not the same as being asked to work for free, but I'd send them this video if I knew for certain that I wouldn't burn any bridges...
You can still find a way in appropriate tone to communicate the same points.
Have you checked out the website DesignContest? I actually have interaction with the contest holder to make adjustments and work with them to create a design that they are looking for. I still have not won any of the contests but my designs are improving by leaps and bounds and have actually earned third place in a few contests.
"Boxers get paid a bunch of money to get punched in the face, because that's what they like." That was just perfect lol
David Pinson LOL thanks. I do have fun with these!
Hi roberto, so without these contest how are designers suppose to find clients? Thanks!
I love your rants >_
Jorvis F. Thanks!
This actual a very great in site on crowd funding and how it can mess up a graphic designer who has just started or been in the game for a while. I personally haven't done a actual design or illustration for these sites; but, I have mentioned it to people like my sister. I first heard about these site (not fiver) from a coworker who used the sites to produce work. I personally started talking with people at my job and did some graphic designer and tons of fine art work and I can understand that connection you get with the client. But after I lost my job for assumptional reason I wasn't able to get anymore work outside and I've been looking. My questions is what can I do to better my chances to gain work as a illustrator/graphic designer?
I just subscribed! This video was extremely encouraging for me. THANK YOU
Great video, one thing I have a horrible story I'll make it short, I went to a design school wayyy back when graduated in 94, the school has since shut down lol my fault for going to this school I know, any how I love design I really am trying to get back into it I have no portfolio at this time can I use the contest to build my portfolio, because no matter what you say if I have one logo and you have a 1000 piece portfolio I'm not getting a job over you not in a million years,so do you think it is OK to use design contest s to build?
I'm in a situation currently that I'm interested to hear your opinion on.
I used to play a game that allowed for multi-player (5-100) clans/alliances to be formed. These groups could brandish a custom emblem for an in-game premium. When I played, and when I first started doing graphic design, I made my first ever logo/emblem for my clan.
I'm very interested in offering to make emblems for the game's community, but really don't want to charge them. They won't be in a position to make money off of the emblem, nor are they really eager to pay someone to make it. What do you think about working for free in this situation? Both you and Will Paterson (correct spelling?) have been very outspoken about -NEVER- working for free, but I really think this is a case where I could work for free, at my own pace, and build a really cool portfolio.
TL;DR: Is it okay to do work for free if it's for a person/group that will be making exactly $0 off of the emblem/logo?
Coobap If you want to do it that is your call, but even if they can't make money off of it, you are still giving up your time for free, and your time has value. Like I said it is your call. Charities make $0 and they still pay for services from people, they don't get electricity for free. Some business do things they will make $0 but they still pay a service provider or vendor. If you feel your time and energy is worth $0 because someone else won't profit that is your call, but in the end they are getting something cool. You didn't make a profit off of your shoes, but someone still had to pay for them.
I remember a fellow GD saying about contest that they were as if someone went to a restaurant ask all the chef to cook for him and only pay for the plate that he ate. That comparison stuck with me and made me hate contest even more.
Musashiden I'm going to borrow that!
People who don't know or care about design want it as quick and cheap as possible.
You get what you pay for. People don't want to pay. It is the reason why
Groups such as Stop Working For Free pop up in faecesbook.
***** It's the same thing with any other bad idea. The question is are we going to allow ourselves to live in a world where we don't autocorrect bad behavior?
What do you think about designcrowd? I'm using that website right now. I'm having a good and safe experience so far..it's not really a contest but have you ever heard of it?
Lanyka Lincoln I've heard of it but I'm less familiar with it.
Very well said! Its across the board especially in photography.
Al Lenore Indeed, it applies to creatives all around!
I am with you 1000 % on this. Its exploitation and wasteful of everyone's time.
***** Thanks for that tremendous comment Ellen!
Roberto Blake I've been a working artist for many many years. This isn't new. There was a group, way back, that had a great manifesto on this AND the policy of charging artists a "jurying fee" to POSSIBLY be in a show. Artists are the last people on earth who can afford this. I do understand that if there is a judge or group that needs to convene in person to look at physical slides, they should get paid something. But even back in 1980, sometimes entry fees were $30 for EACH work submitted. This is an ongoing thing. Everybody else makes a cut, and the artists come away with pennies. Thanks for your excellent videos, Roberto. You rock.
Roberto Blake If I have time is one thing but entry fee is another. I did a couple of contests but fee entry for me.
Thanks for saying these things. It was like hearing my scrambled gut feelings put into coherent words.
Best of luck bro, Show us live contest on freelancer and become winner .
Hey Roberto,
I've came up with an idea to send a small letter with information on my services with a businesscard attached on it.. I know its old fashioned, but I believe that Art directors would appreciate a letter alot more then a random email popping up in their inbox..
what do you think?
Lucki Rockit I think it may be a good way to make a warm contact, but if you're going to go that far you may want to make it a hand written letter on nice stationary and in print, not cursive and very legible. I think they may appreciate a handwritten letter as it is something they probably haven't gotten in a decade or in their lifetime depending on age.
I use 99designs for logos right now, I have won multiple contest and they are using my logos right now, but sometimes when you work so hard on a logo and you don't win. It's not worth it, I only work on sports bar logo contest.
+Steven Garrison Got to do what is financially and psychologically healthy...
love this man, Extremely articulate.
What do you think about pixel.com?
Do you think this is a good opportunity to build your portfolio?
Yeah i never understood how that worked, i seen many contest on 99designs with over like 20 designers contestants competing for a client with a 600$ budget.
Watch out! TITAN BEHIND YOU!
Mr Blake you spitting "fiyah" on this rant. you should be a high school teacher.
+Raychristofer While I appreciate the intention of the compliment, there is not nearly enough money or freedom in being a high school teacher. I don't do very well with being given too much structure and I'm not a fan of repeating myself. This format of teaching is best suited to my skills and personality.
Thank you sir, very useful.
Thanks man!! Subscribed.
I want to go to events but I don't have the capital to make things I have a job but I have dreams of making things but how do I do it i know I need to get out there and contact people but yeah
volunteer at conferences to get a free ticket and prioritize events you can drive to...
Roberto Blake thanks for the advice Roberto your videos are so precise about every inch of detail it's a dog eat dog world so many people need to network with more people a lot more
I agree.. you have a point.
jeff robles LOL, I usually do.
YES!!!! YES!!! Thank you!
I am 17 yet I have been doing graphic design sense I was in seventh grade so like most designers I have things and room to learn but, I know a good amount of graphic design. Where could I find client and start getting work. And your totally right about the graphic competitions it's a rip off and wast of time.
andre gomez You need to start by learning about business. Honestly while it is possible to make money in any creative field before you're 18 I think that most young people take it for granted and don't learn nearly enough about business, or contracts or what their rights are or what their expectations should be, and just think about getting money doing something fun. .. I probably need to do a video about this. Don't start with the internet, start with friends and family and referrals from them. Start with small businesses in your local community. Do that and also start building up your portfolio and your online presence. Don't try to grow too fast, take it all in and concentrate on learning and building on those relationships you already have. After 2-3 years of learning and figuring out your style and how to communicate and also who you want to do work with and what your habits are, then you can really start thinking about growing and by then clients will likely be on their way to you.
Thanks it makes sense to learn business, my plan for many years has been to go to college for a major business and minor in graphic design. Though I'm always learning at home and on my own for example I took a photography class at my school and of all year I learned my camera witch is a xti, and the schools cameras 2ti, 3 ti, and cannon 60d, inside out. Also I learned composition and color theory, rule of thirds and so on. All that before the rest of the class was shooting in anything more than auto. This I don't mean to brag because inn no way am I proud of being fast nor do I think I was all that fast just I study at school then I come home and learn till dinner, i don't really know why but, when I learn I go to extremes of learning like that and part of it is I have the resources like in this example I have my own camera to shoot with wherever. Anyways thanks and I'll keep your advice in mind as I move forward.
wawww man .. you are totally right .. Thanks for the vid bro.
I 100% agree, respect.
Yeah.... You are Right.
great video Roberto .! i am always a fan ! and i want to share a story with you . yesterday i told to my grandma that i want to go at the art school and then be a graphic designer . she said that s not a real job and i will be a useless men because hear at Greece everyone thinks like a di** ... why people don't understand thats a real job ? (also i know that you make many vlogs about that ;) )
What's going on with the sound in the background? Sounds like a squeaky toy or Paris Hilton's dog getting stepped on :D
adarkerlight Chair either needs oil or to be replaced.
Roberto Blake lol oh, okay, i really was wondering what it was.
agreed, so true
If You want to build Your portfolio and You are running out of ideas, or simply don't have one, You can use those croud sourcing websites, like 99designs, but ONLY to build Your portfolio, DONT enter the design contest.
I gues You can do that.
PTedro Yes, but you could also use brief box, or you can always look for designs in the real world you don't like a re-design them for your portfolio. For every reason or excuse a person might use to go to one of these sites there is answer that is something Designers have been doing for DECADES without these sites. If people HONESTLY are saying this is the reason, then I will get together with some of the other designers here on UA-cam like Stephen Looney , ***** and Will Paterson and we will look at making some type of brief resource or project list. I'm sure each of could probably pull 30 briefs off the top of our head for projects. But honestly, if people aren't creative enough to solve that problem, they are really going to struggle creatively when it comes to working with actual clients who rarely if ever know what they want...
your amazing thank you for reading my mind and my wife thanks you
6 people work for 99design
hi i am justice. lets be best friends because this video was exactly what i needed. lol
yeah it's true but there are many "new" designers can make some creations more pro and good creations than profissional designers
btw many of these creative amateurs can't afford money for Photoshop or a mac or smthing like that
um, can you design my logo?
Liked!!!
i'd be careful on the charities. some of em are corrupt. i should know i work for oen that works the shit out of you and pays nothing for it. so bad im going to have to take a semester off and find something different to finish up school with. :)
Kevfactor This can be true.
100 percent agree with everything you said.
Gaz Bot Thanks!
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