He's like the smart kid in class who's trying to fail out of spite where in order to get every incorrect answer that means they had to know what every correct answer was to avoid them
Cimo[...]o is really hard on himself for missing guesses, but everything he says up until his final guess is usually scarily on point. Like clairvoyant level on point.
Basically MTG used to take itself super seriously and now that's not always the case. So if it's silly, cute, a pun, or an anime waifu, chances are it's *probably* new. Probably.
Cards banned in standard from Throne of Eldraine: - Cauldron Familiar (Creature) - Escape to the Wilds (Sorcery) - Fire of Invention (Enchantment) - Lucky Clover (Artifact) - Oko, Thief of Crowns (Planeswalker) - Once Upon a Time (Instant) Special mention (banned outside of standard): - Mystic Sanctuary (Land) That's right; every card type that appeared in the set got banned in a format, with all but one being banned in standard.
Having people on to evaluate magic cards is my favorite version of UA-cam's card game cinematic universe. I also really appreciate the editor who is looking up and displaying the Yu-Gi-Oh cards that Cimo mentions.
Looking at dates is interesting. The first 6 rabbits are: - Kezzerdrix (1997, black) - Jackalope Herd (1998, green) - Zodiac (1999, green) - Vizzerdrix (1999, blue) - kwain (2020, Blue/White legendary) - Rabbit battery (2022, red) Funny that its primary a white creature type now edit: correcting the red one release date
@Kasaaz Yes, because if you use Madness you discard the card into exile instead of the graveyard. Tinybones doesn't see it hit the yard so it doesn't work
@@Metal_Maoist This is correct. The specific reason is because madness is a replacement effect which puts the discarded card directly into exile instead of the graveyard. That's why Tinybones doesn't even see it.
I don't think they were talking about graveyard TRIGGERS as much as they were talking about having things IN graveyards for reanimator effects, which Cimo would be the most familiar with.
33:10 "I was there, Gandalf. I was there 3000 years ago. I was there when the Hidetsugu devoured his demonic patron and transcended mortality in a fit of rage."
12:07 if anything, about Hare Apparent, Yu-Gi-Oh has the opposite mechanic cards like a Legendary Ocean and the Harpie Lady ## have text that makes them be treated as having the same name as another card during deck creation, so they share the 3-copies limited between these cards and their "originals"
Something I do love about Hidetsugu's Second Rite: Canadian Higlander player Nelson Salahub has a copy of Hidetsugu's second rite that has been signed by each player it has been killed (in Canadian Highlander). I've never seen him play it myself, but supposedly people started playing the Ice Age pain lands like Adarkar wastes, desperately trying to dodge the second rite. The card has a lot of signatures.
There was a time period during 2012 era commander where second rite was commonly paired up with sorin markov, i saw so many people lose to that one two punch and even suffered it a couple times myself lol
I don't know if you read the comments or not, but it would be fun to see cimoo seeing classic mtg cards that are never out of fashion and have him guess when they were last legal in standard, ex: thunderbolt, brainstorm, rampant growth, llanowar elves, birds of paradise, counterspell, etc.
RE: Wishclaw Talisman - Wishclaw Talisman saw play in Storm decks in Legacy for quite some time. The downside doesnt matter if your opponent doesn't get a turn. Nowadays it has been outclassed by Beseech the Mirror, but it was a good card for a fair amount of time.
It also saw widespread competitive play in cEDH, where the downside of giving it to an opponent was actually upside in two situations: 1) if you played Dockside Extortionist, it gave you an extra treasure, and 2) you could make deals with opponents to give them the Talisman if they gave it back to you, giving you 2 tutors for only 4 mana. Also specific commanders like Breya can just sacrifice it before it gets handed off.
"The downside doesn't matter if your opponent doesn't get a turn" actually rings very true in Yugioh. Some nasty cards with reciprocal effects or potentially beneficial element for the opponent saw play and got banned because of this exact clause, a couple that comes to mind immediately are Cold Wave (which is actually featured on the video CGB referenced as their latest collab on Cimo's channel) and Red Reboot
@@Gravewhisper Probably because Demonic Tutor has been banned in Legacy basically for the entire existence of the format. Demonic Tutor is only legal in Commander and Vintage, and is only legal at one copy in Vintage.
Honestly with the number of absolutely broken combos and the prevalence of cheap easy hand destruction I could easily see the Wishclaw Talisman becoming a regularly used card in standard.
I've only encountered Hare Apparent once on arena. I board wiped and thought that was simply the end of it. But my opponent kept milling while my deck was being slow, and then they eventually used Awaken the Past to revive a bunch of Hare Apparents, a guy that gained them life every time a creature entered, and that bloomburrow bat that deals damage to the opponent everytime you gain life. I was disintegrated.
What's great with magic's mana system is how it informs about intent. It's also not just a cost, it paces the game as well. And because it's a budget, it also dictate tempo. And the color identity is the cherry on top, because it hints at your play style like a fighting stance. So much of the state of the game is inferred from the player's mana state or identity alone.
Yes! And the tension! The tension of how many lands and what types or specific versions to put in your deck, how many utility lands. The tension of keeping a gassed hand with just one or two lands, will you draw that one more you need? The tension of seeing two untapped islands, or a single white mana available, or a black and one or two more. The tension of seeing the green player's land count just keep going up, bracing for what's coming or frantically trying to finish them off... lands can be frustrating but they also make the game what it is.
The 10th Ed version of Time Stop is really awesome: On the foil version, it removes the flavor text and puts the card effect right in the middle, so it's very stark and obvious. It's beautiful.
55:44 yugioh actually was quite a few effects that skip to end phase effectively ending your opponent turn, from old cards (like neko mane king, from 2003) to quite new cards (like veda kalarcanum, released just last year) now the reason cimoooo probably doesn’t remember them is because they usually come with really weird and difficult activation requirements lol
@@CatManThreeit was something people were coping on but never really took off that much from what I remember. You were just better off playing your standard tear ishizu deck I will say though resolving Neko during a tear mirror was absolutely hilarious and you felt like a God lmao
@@sammydray5919Neko did resolve at a YCS Top 8 on stream iirc ; the problem wasn't to trigger it, it was that you weren't sure to win EVEN IF IT DID - the Tear player still won
Tinybones, Bauble Burglar Level: 3 Attribute: Dark Type: Zombie / Effect ATK: 900 DEF: 1650 Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must be special summoned (from your hand or GY) by banishing 1 zombie monster from your hand or field. Any card sent from your opponent's hand to the GY is banished face-up instead. For card(s) banished this way, place one Stash counter on it. While your opponent owns a card with a Stash counter (Quick Effect) You may target 1 banished card with a Stash counter and remove a Stash counter from it; send 1 card of the same original type (Monster, Spell, Trap) from your hand to the GY: Apply one of the following effects. - Monster: Special summon the target in face-up defense position. - Spell: Target one card on the field. Return the target to the hand. - Trap: Your opponent discards 1 card. You can only use this effect of "Tinybones, Bauble Burglar" once per turn. could also see him being an XYZ monster that needs 2+ level 3 Zombie monsters and change the cost to: detach one material.
I believe the first rabbit ever printed (by errata) is Kezzerdrix from Tempest, but the first creature printed with Rabbit on the type line is Zodiac Rabbit from Portal Three Kingdoms
Wishclaw Talsiman 1) you don't have to activate it the turn you cast this card. You can cast it on turn 2 and activate it when you need it on a future turn for 1 2) you don't need to worry about your opponent searching if they don't get to have another turn. Find your final combo piece and beat them that turn 3) you can sac it in response to the ability. As mentioned, torch the tower. 4) there are a lot of 2 card kill combos in standard right now. Most of them use black.
Is interesting that formats in Magic are based around, “Cards printed since a certain point.” But the other formats I’ve heard about for Yugioh are all, “Cards printed before a certain point.”
That's mostly because in YuGiOh, "cards printed since a certain point" kinda doesn't work because of powercreep. So instead we focus on specific banlists/tournaments/points in time.
Magic has had the advantage that it has had substantial *depowerings* across its history, and modern cards tend to have limitations, costs, and restrictions older cards did not. Further, Magic has been fairly careful in adding new card types, with Planeswalkers being probably the only new card type to rise above the limited 'gimmick' status. Yugioh has added entirely new card types throughout its run, and the resulting power creep has been *breathtaking.* Further, each new mechanic can be seen as a response to the prior mechanic, to make them in many ways substantially better than what came before. Thus, Magic gets more powerful and more genetically useful the further you go back, while early Yugioh is practically a different game compared to modern play.
@@watchm4ker I think it's an effect of starting early with rotation. The longer without, the more you have to power creep, etc. It's not wrong, just interesting different way to do it.
I got a bone to pick with you GovertGoBlue. your channel initials are CGB, but this is disrespectful of MTG players; because Blue is not "B" it is a "U" so your channels initials should instead be CGU for the honesty and transparency this channel deserves.
@Faude18 he isn't CovertGoBlack (CGB) he is CoverGoBlue (CGU). Though maybe that would elicit a different audience, and people might correlate to CommonGreenBlue...
@@gardian06_85 counterpoint, there's a Yugioh content creator with the name MBT who used to play Magic, and the actually does come from Mono Blue Tron though one could argue the identity has shifted to Marincess Blue Tang. I guess if nothing else he gets a pass since he doesn't do Magic stuff anymore
Wishclaw Talisman was also a staple in Eternal formats in combo decks. A three-mana tutor that says "You have to win this turn" was good enough, especially because you can divide the mana, so you have a lot of resources the turn you go off.
A bunch of Hare apparent with anything that does damage when creatures enter, Arabella, cards that destroy creatures above power x etc is fun to play on arena in brawl so far
It's a shame to show Hidetsugu without showing his Legendary card that taps to deals damage to each player equal to half their life total. It's a garbage combo but those two cards kill someone from 20 life.
Cheetahs are actually closer to house cats than to Lions or Tigers, Felidae (all cats) is split into sub categories, Lions and Tigers are in Pantherinae, and House Cats and Cheetahs are in Felinae.
Hare Apparent in commander will be fun because you have a lot of support cards that are not in standard. Thrumming stone, Etb doublers, Token doublers, Bloodbond March, secret salvage, Remembrance. Depending on you colours. Tutoring or looping them is pretty easy. My shadow born apostle deck does similar things only it goes for powerful demons and reanimation loops instead of go wide and hit face.
Quick fact check for the gamers: Tinybones exiles cards after they're already in the graveyard, he doesn't Void them out. So any effects that trigger when cards are discarded still trigger, he just yoinks them as well afterwards
51:41 Cimo about Niv-Mizzet "the 7th? [...] That's crazy!" Cimo... How many versions of Blue-Eyes and Dark Magician are there? Or Gaia... Or Black Luster Soldier... Or Stardust... Or - well, I guess you get the point XD
I think he was shocked in regards to a card having that many in magic, or just in the moment. And in fairness, there being sevens versions of a character really is insane for a legendary creature who is and has never been a planeswalker.
You should make a video asking him whether a card was a key part of a pro tour winning deck. I feel Like that would be more realistic to evaluate and also more along the lines of what he’s asking you to evaluate.
Second Rite was even worse way back when because there was still mana burn, so your opponent could just intentionally lose life whenever they wanted. I remember some crackpot theorist argued that its existence made red decks better without even playing it because it would be technically correct for your opponents to occasionally burn themselves for one just to preclude the possibility of getting Second Rited but I don't think anyone ever actually did that in practice.
Second Rite did see play back then, though. There was a Boros deck in Kami/Rav standard that only played even damage spells so they could kill you with this (potentially after a wrath).
You'd still have to know to mana burn yourself when you're at 10 though. If Rite is on the stack, and you tap a mana, it's still gonna resolve because there's no phase or step change to burn the mana. Painlands can do it at instant speed without even giving them a chance to put a second one on the stack in response.
RE: Niv-Mizzet, Visionary. Fun fact - Niv-Mizzet is a recurring character. This version of Niv-Mizzet goes infinite with two previous iterations of himself (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and Niv-Mizzet, Parun). Edit: NVM he got there in the video lol
Love Cimo, love the whole avengers team up in magic, including those from other games I don't know anything about. This whole series on all the channels have become my favourite things to see show up on youtube. I've watched every video on Cimo's channel I understand, and some I haven't. I just want him to get into arena like Rarran did, that would be a fantastic arc. Also Rarran needs to get back into it, we're still waiting on the limited arc
So I don't play either of your games (anymore). But the different perspectives on card game design makes these videos incredibly interesting. You guys have really nailed a format here.
13:42 So! The earliest card I can find that was printed with the Rabbit subtype is Zodiac Rabbit from Portal Three Kingdoms. However, Kezzerdrix is the earliest card that I can find whose creature type was erratad to include Rabbit, and that's from Tempest. I would argue that Zodiac Rabbit was still the first Rabbit to be printed, but I see the argument for Kezzerdrix. FYI the Scryfall search I used for this was t:rabbit not:reprint, and I then sorted by Release Date.
You want to play 40 hare apparent because of Thrumming Stone. For thrumming stone to reliably hit all your Hares, you need ~35 minimum. With 40 mana sources and 40 Hares, that leaves you 19 support slots
34:54 : I think CGB should have corrected Cimo here. If casting Talisman resolves, the opponent has no window to interact with it if the owner wants to use it immediately. This would then put its effect on the stack (e.g. the opponent does not get priority after casting the card resolves). The opponent could then destroy it but that would make no sense, as that prevents him from getting it. And even if he does, Talisman's effect is already on the stack and would still resolve.
I think that's a subtle difference between the rules of Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh that he's not aware of. (To be honest, I only know about it because of videos like this one.) Apparently (and don't quote me on this because I'm not a Yu-Gi-Oh player), in Yu-Gi-Oh, when a card is about to enter play, you have a window to respond to the card itself entering before its effects become active. The equivalent interaction in Magic is on the stack only: once the permanent enters the battlefield, unless there's a trigger, you have no window to interact - funnily enough, that "unless there's a trigger" has been used at times to _create_ such a window (Omnath, Locus of Creation comes to mind, where the designers specifically said that they wanted some ETB effect so the opponent could kill it in response).
Having fun watching these as a Yu Gi Oh player. Niv Mizzet Reborn seems like an insanely fun card to build around for commander, get color pairs to each do specific things and then get everything at once.
The earliest card to currently have Rabbit in its typeline is Kezzerdrix from Tempest, but that was added retroactively. Kezzerdrix was originally just a Beast. The earliest card to have Rabbit actually printed on it is Zodiac Rabbit from Portal Three Kingdoms.
As much as I like Rarran and his chaotic energy, something about Cimoo just constantly channeling a sigh makes your collabs with him even more entertaining. The dynamic is just so fun to watch. Also, I think Wishclaw Talisman is good for tutoring board wipes when you need them. Good board wipes clear artifacts as well, so you don't have to worry about what your opponent could do with it. Probably pointless in commander though, because you can just play better tutors.
I mean, one of the main reasons behind why I like Hare Apparent is that it plays like a storm-ish enabler in Baylen the Haymaker. The tokens draw you cards, net you mana, and you can win on the spot with stuff like Eerie Interlude, Impact Tremors, Warleader's Call, or stuff like Confusion in the Ranks. The card enables you to do some pretty messed up stuff in what's otherwise just another go wide, drop Craterhoof, and hit everyone with an army of 24/24 Trampling Rabbits. Once you have 5 hare apparents in play, you can start drawing cards and making mana. at 7, the Hare Apparents pay for themselves. Its arguably the more easily abused "You can play any of this" cards in the game, specifically because it makes *tokens*.
Fun fact: yugioh is the only card game of the big 3 that never had any card that was allowed to have more copies of itself in the deck than the standard x copies per card limit in the rules allowed
@@NeostormXLMAX I love that collab but just no. They have good chemistry but that collab was mostly mocking yugioh because team aps went out of their way to show the silliest card for someone unfamiliar with the game to see. The commander match was fun but the yugioh side of the collab was just a mess. Cimo and CGB (and LSV on Cimo's channel) is far better collaboration for me because they try to be fair to each other while still having fun. Feels more like appreciation of the games and their differences unlike the team aps collab where it was more look how bad yugioh is (though I guess thats most of team aps content and community now)
@@sammydray5919 Credits where credit's due, Cimo's take on cross-TCG card review are actually much enjoyable because it's laid down to be a long series. It's almost like he's building a tutorial in the form of these collabs for CGB and LSV that they slowly accumulate knowledge of a different cardgame without actually playing it unlike other channels that just shove extra deck cards and give the bare minimum explanation.
@@jamesaditya5254 Yup. Its why his cross tcg collabs actually work really well for both sides because he goes about it in this way. I enjoy team aps and their collab was fun but it felt so one sided because they just went full in picking up the off hand choices with not much built up or explanation. Evaluating cards from other games can be fun but only as long as its done in a way that allows you to atleast comprehend whats going on. Otherwise there is just nothing but blind guesses which gets old fast unfortunately.
Demonic Tutor was legal in Standard (Type II at the time) when I started playing during Revised. It was restricted, like Fork and Channel and Regrowth etc.
It’s crazy how everyone forgets that Diabolic intent is a 2 mana tutor legal in standard. I’m still shocked that I’ve never seen it even cast in pioneer despite the existence of sac heavy decks
Probably my favorite alt--win in Magic is Revel in Riches. I played in a pre-release 2-Headed Giant tournament. I had a Dino deck with both Huatli's from the first Ixalan sets, and my partner had Revel in Riches. Can't remember if it was both in one match, but he definitely managed to pull it off twice, and we did really well in that tournament. If we didn't win, it was very close.
Part of the new player experience is seeing cards that look exciting and then learning over time why they are actually bad. I think it is important that base sets include cards like Hidetsugu's second rite as tools to help newer players learn how something that might seem good on paper is actually just a pipe dream.
Pull From Eternity exists but it hasn't been legal in a hot minute, it's one of the few cards that can grab stuff from exile. Fun fact for newer players, the ancestor of CatPact is Donate/Illusions of Grandeur.
I recently started to play a version of the harmless offering deck (Red, Black and Blue) that also has tech to counter other harmless offering players AND accelerate my own winning plan. For timeless, i play the usual stuff with Harmless Offering, Demonic Pact, Archfiend of the Dross, Greed's Gambit and Coveted Falcon. But i also play Thing in the Ice for early control. And the ace in the sleeve, i play Price of Betrayal and Render Inert. I can activate Thing in the Ice on turn 3. I can insta kill someone if they play Archfiend turn 4. You can also play Battles with this deck and remove counters from those.
My friend has a Commander deck with Hidetsugu's Second Rite in it, and the entire reason it's in there is that if they can somehow engineer a situation where they actually resolve its effect, they'll ask the person who they killed with it to sign it after the game. At least three or four people have signed it at this point afaik
Fun fact: Hidetsugu's First Rite is the activated ability on his first creature card, which halves all player's life totals. His second rite kills someone who was hit by the first [at full life].
Jackalope Herd was originally a beast, and was later errata'd to be a rabbit beast. If that counts, the first rabbit was Kezzerdrix from 1997's Tempest, which was also later errata'd from beast to rabbit beast. The first creature that was actually originally printed with the rabbit type was Zodiac Rabbit from 1999's Portal Three kingdoms.
The first rabbit in MTG was Kezzerdrix. Tempest, Rare, monoblack and terrifying art. The second rabbit was Jackalope Herd, Exodus, 1998 monogreen creature. Third was Zodiac Rabbit, followed by what I thought was the first rabbit, Vizzerdrix also in 1999. Also terrifying art. Then no more rabbits until 2020, and in the last 4 years they released 32 more rabbits, creating the archetype of "spam out many small rabbits and eat the enemy with them"
Cimo cracks me up, He sees the rakes, he acknowledges that he's about to step on the rake, then steps right on it.
It's honestly kinda amazing how he figures out the correct answer, and still gets it wrong.
I think this is why this series is so entertaining to me
He's like the smart kid in class who's trying to fail out of spite where in order to get every incorrect answer that means they had to know what every correct answer was to avoid them
Cimo is me when it comes to playing into counterspells. I knew you had it, but what if you didn't.
@@ConnorGrummer"always pick C. Except when the answer's C"
Well if it isn't my favorite people, Mesa Falcon Guy and Dingus Egg!
"mesa falcoon guy and the dingus egg" sounds like a great comedy duo name imho 🤣🤣🤣🤣
out of context, it sounds like a father-son duo
Cimo[...]o is really hard on himself for missing guesses, but everything he says up until his final guess is usually scarily on point. Like clairvoyant level on point.
Up to and including deducing the exact name of previous iterations of a dragon on a card lol
it's 8 Os
And he even called *how* he would be wrong on at least the Anthem of Champions
He's basically TTS Magnus with how pinpoint accurate his failures are
@Cimoooooooo A word of advice when determining how old a card is: If the name is a bad pun, it's new.
Excluding silver borders
Apes of Rath
And if a legend has a boring-ass title like "Visionary" or "Supreme" 48:00
Basically MTG used to take itself super seriously and now that's not always the case. So if it's silly, cute, a pun, or an anime waifu, chances are it's *probably* new. Probably.
There was at least one bad pun in Alpha: Two-Headed Giant of Foriys (because it has four eyes)
"I resent being called a complainer!" - CGB, Known complainer
He complained about being called a complainer 😂
CGB, Known Complainer sounds like the name of a commander lol
Cards banned in standard from Throne of Eldraine:
- Cauldron Familiar (Creature)
- Escape to the Wilds (Sorcery)
- Fire of Invention (Enchantment)
- Lucky Clover (Artifact)
- Oko, Thief of Crowns (Planeswalker)
- Once Upon a Time (Instant)
Special mention (banned outside of standard):
- Mystic Sanctuary (Land)
That's right; every card type that appeared in the set got banned in a format, with all but one being banned in standard.
Having people on to evaluate magic cards is my favorite version of UA-cam's card game cinematic universe. I also really appreciate the editor who is looking up and displaying the Yu-Gi-Oh cards that Cimo mentions.
13:33 In yu-gi-oh, playing with a rabbit that turns into dinosaurs used to be meta defining.
Indeed it was. I was there. 🤣
Cimo is a grifter who is bad at the game so dont expect him to remember
@@NeostormXLMAX i hope ur using words u dont know the meaning of instead of actually believing that
when the 🐇 suddenly 2× Megalosmasher X then Evolzar Lagia/Dolkka
@@MansMan42069 It was actually Sabersaurus/Kabazauls
Kezzerdrix is the first Rabbit (but it was erratad to be that). The first one printed as a Rabbit is Zodiac Rabbit.
Vizzerdrix was the first rabbit I saw in mtg, hate to be the wizard that created them lol
Looking at dates is interesting. The first 6 rabbits are:
- Kezzerdrix (1997, black)
- Jackalope Herd (1998, green)
- Zodiac (1999, green)
- Vizzerdrix (1999, blue)
- kwain (2020, Blue/White legendary)
- Rabbit battery (2022, red)
Funny that its primary a white creature type now
edit: correcting the red one release date
I had some kezzerdrix!! Thy for reminding 😊
Cutest rabbit ever 11/10
Yugioh also has a Zodiac rabbit
Cimooooo talking about Niv Mizzet and mentioning “a guy, a guy reborn”… he’s a prophet!
Small correction but Tinybones doesn't actually stop graveyard triggers. It specifically says that the cards get exiled from the graveyard
Could you play a Madness card before Tinybones exiles it?
@Kasaaz Yes, because if you use Madness you discard the card into exile instead of the graveyard. Tinybones doesn't see it hit the yard so it doesn't work
@@Metal_Maoist This is correct. The specific reason is because madness is a replacement effect which puts the discarded card directly into exile instead of the graveyard. That's why Tinybones doesn't even see it.
I don't think they were talking about graveyard TRIGGERS as much as they were talking about having things IN graveyards for reanimator effects, which Cimo would be the most familiar with.
if a card gets discarded and has its own discard trigger, which one goes on the stack first? Is it the turn player?
33:10 "I was there, Gandalf. I was there 3000 years ago. I was there when the Hidetsugu devoured his demonic patron and transcended mortality in a fit of rage."
A being so angry that he literally can't die
I think this being a podcast episode is a bit odd but I always enjoy this format.
I love how spot on he was with anthem effects. He literally only missed with saying glorious anthem was 2 [W] instead of 1 [W][W].
He also suggested it was maybe a green enchantment, and then CGB didn't show him Gaea's Anthem, which I think was a big miss.
@@phoenixrising211 Wait so there was a green enchantment too? Thats hilarious lmao
@@phoenixrising211 Think CGB had those loaded up ready to go to chat about, rather than finding them during their talk.
I am absolutely giving him the win on #1 for correctly predicting the existence of Glorious Anthem
12:07 if anything, about Hare Apparent, Yu-Gi-Oh has the opposite mechanic
cards like a Legendary Ocean and the Harpie Lady ## have text that makes them be treated as having the same name as another card during deck creation, so they share the 3-copies limited between these cards and their "originals"
i'd be more likely to compare it to skull servants(which might be why cimo read its benefits as applying based on all present rabbits)
Cimooooooooooo: "Why am I back here?!"
Valid feeling 🤣
just to suffer :p
Emotional Damage dont heal fast
Love watching Cimo reverse engineer the existence of Glorious Anthem (and Gaea's Anthem) from Anthem of Champions lol.
Something I do love about Hidetsugu's Second Rite:
Canadian Higlander player Nelson Salahub has a copy of Hidetsugu's second rite that has been signed by each player it has been killed (in Canadian Highlander). I've never seen him play it myself, but supposedly people started playing the Ice Age pain lands like Adarkar wastes, desperately trying to dodge the second rite. The card has a lot of signatures.
There was a time period during 2012 era commander where second rite was commonly paired up with sorin markov, i saw so many people lose to that one two punch and even suffered it a couple times myself lol
Some of my first memories of Magic involve a Rabbit that was actually a Beast. That is, the commercials with Vizzerdrix.
I don't know if you read the comments or not, but it would be fun to see cimoo seeing classic mtg cards that are never out of fashion and have him guess when they were last legal in standard, ex: thunderbolt, brainstorm, rampant growth, llanowar elves, birds of paradise, counterspell, etc.
Alex Cimo is the king of predicting his own demise. I'm sure he will never forget MST into Monster Reborn into Dark Elf into Megamorph.
I still chuckle remembering that incident lmao
"my favorite animal is a rhino"
Siege Rhino inc next video
Also the Rhox's
crashing foot falls?
RE: Wishclaw Talisman - Wishclaw Talisman saw play in Storm decks in Legacy for quite some time. The downside doesnt matter if your opponent doesn't get a turn.
Nowadays it has been outclassed by Beseech the Mirror, but it was a good card for a fair amount of time.
It also saw widespread competitive play in cEDH, where the downside of giving it to an opponent was actually upside in two situations: 1) if you played Dockside Extortionist, it gave you an extra treasure, and 2) you could make deals with opponents to give them the Talisman if they gave it back to you, giving you 2 tutors for only 4 mana.
Also specific commanders like Breya can just sacrifice it before it gets handed off.
"The downside doesn't matter if your opponent doesn't get a turn" actually rings very true in Yugioh. Some nasty cards with reciprocal effects or potentially beneficial element for the opponent saw play and got banned because of this exact clause, a couple that comes to mind immediately are Cold Wave (which is actually featured on the video CGB referenced as their latest collab on Cimo's channel) and Red Reboot
but why would you not just play Demonic Tutor in Legacy? No matter how you spin it, Whishclaw Talisman will never be the better card.
@@Gravewhisper Probably because Demonic Tutor has been banned in Legacy basically for the entire existence of the format.
Demonic Tutor is only legal in Commander and Vintage, and is only legal at one copy in Vintage.
Honestly with the number of absolutely broken combos and the prevalence of cheap easy hand destruction I could easily see the Wishclaw Talisman becoming a regularly used card in standard.
I've only encountered Hare Apparent once on arena. I board wiped and thought that was simply the end of it. But my opponent kept milling while my deck was being slow, and then they eventually used Awaken the Past to revive a bunch of Hare Apparents, a guy that gained them life every time a creature entered, and that bloomburrow bat that deals damage to the opponent everytime you gain life. I was disintegrated.
What's great with magic's mana system is how it informs about intent. It's also not just a cost, it paces the game as well. And because it's a budget, it also dictate tempo. And the color identity is the cherry on top, because it hints at your play style like a fighting stance.
So much of the state of the game is inferred from the player's mana state or identity alone.
Yes! And the tension! The tension of how many lands and what types or specific versions to put in your deck, how many utility lands. The tension of keeping a gassed hand with just one or two lands, will you draw that one more you need? The tension of seeing two untapped islands, or a single white mana available, or a black and one or two more. The tension of seeing the green player's land count just keep going up, bracing for what's coming or frantically trying to finish them off... lands can be frustrating but they also make the game what it is.
The 10th Ed version of Time Stop is really awesome: On the foil version, it removes the flavor text and puts the card effect right in the middle, so it's very stark and obvious. It's beautiful.
Cgb is like “ah you like Niv-Mizzit reborn huh? I’ll keep that in mind for when I have you on my commander show enviably”
55:44 yugioh actually was quite a few effects that skip to end phase effectively ending your opponent turn, from old cards (like neko mane king, from 2003) to quite new cards (like veda kalarcanum, released just last year)
now the reason cimoooo probably doesn’t remember them is because they usually come with really weird and difficult activation requirements lol
Neko Mane King was very famously something people actually ran as a counter to to tears durring tear format. Id expect him to at least be aware of it.
@@CatManThreeit was something people were coping on but never really took off that much from what I remember. You were just better off playing your standard tear ishizu deck
I will say though resolving Neko during a tear mirror was absolutely hilarious and you felt like a God lmao
@@sammydray5919 Funny counters to meta decks are always better than actual ones.
@@CatManThree I won't disagree with that
@@sammydray5919Neko did resolve at a YCS Top 8 on stream iirc ; the problem wasn't to trigger it, it was that you weren't sure to win EVEN IF IT DID - the Tear player still won
Tinybones, Bauble Burglar
Level: 3
Attribute: Dark
Type: Zombie / Effect
ATK: 900 DEF: 1650
Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must be special summoned (from your hand or GY) by banishing 1 zombie monster from your hand or field.
Any card sent from your opponent's hand to the GY is banished face-up instead. For card(s) banished this way, place one Stash counter on it.
While your opponent owns a card with a Stash counter (Quick Effect) You may target 1 banished card with a Stash counter and remove a Stash counter from it; send 1 card of the same original type (Monster, Spell, Trap) from your hand to the GY: Apply one of the following effects.
- Monster: Special summon the target in face-up defense position.
- Spell: Target one card on the field. Return the target to the hand.
- Trap: Your opponent discards 1 card.
You can only use this effect of "Tinybones, Bauble Burglar" once per turn.
could also see him being an XYZ monster that needs 2+ level 3 Zombie monsters and change the cost to: detach one material.
I believe the first rabbit ever printed (by errata) is Kezzerdrix from Tempest, but the first creature printed with Rabbit on the type line is Zodiac Rabbit from Portal Three Kingdoms
You should do the guessing game with cimo with specifically WUBRG-costed spells, just because they're all silly flashy "boss monster" effects
Wishclaw Talsiman
1) you don't have to activate it the turn you cast this card. You can cast it on turn 2 and activate it when you need it on a future turn for 1
2) you don't need to worry about your opponent searching if they don't get to have another turn. Find your final combo piece and beat them that turn
3) you can sac it in response to the ability. As mentioned, torch the tower.
4) there are a lot of 2 card kill combos in standard right now. Most of them use black.
Is interesting that formats in Magic are based around, “Cards printed since a certain point.” But the other formats I’ve heard about for Yugioh are all, “Cards printed before a certain point.”
That's mostly because in YuGiOh, "cards printed since a certain point" kinda doesn't work because of powercreep. So instead we focus on specific banlists/tournaments/points in time.
Magic has had the advantage that it has had substantial *depowerings* across its history, and modern cards tend to have limitations, costs, and restrictions older cards did not. Further, Magic has been fairly careful in adding new card types, with Planeswalkers being probably the only new card type to rise above the limited 'gimmick' status.
Yugioh has added entirely new card types throughout its run, and the resulting power creep has been *breathtaking.* Further, each new mechanic can be seen as a response to the prior mechanic, to make them in many ways substantially better than what came before.
Thus, Magic gets more powerful and more genetically useful the further you go back, while early Yugioh is practically a different game compared to modern play.
@@watchm4ker I think it's an effect of starting early with rotation. The longer without, the more you have to power creep, etc. It's not wrong, just interesting different way to do it.
@@SilverRevolt7699nah is because konami doesn’t artificially inflate prices to please collectors like with wizards
@@watchm4keryugioh has depowerings too, this game has actually gotten much slower since 2019 or 2015 when they were peaks
I got a bone to pick with you GovertGoBlue. your channel initials are CGB, but this is disrespectful of MTG players; because Blue is not "B" it is a "U" so your channels initials should instead be CGU for the honesty and transparency this channel deserves.
CGB Is a better sounding abbreviation.
@Faude18 he isn't CovertGoBlack (CGB) he is CoverGoBlue (CGU). Though maybe that would elicit a different audience, and people might correlate to CommonGreenBlue...
@@gardian06_85 counterpoint, there's a Yugioh content creator with the name MBT who used to play Magic, and the actually does come from Mono Blue Tron though one could argue the identity has shifted to Marincess Blue Tang. I guess if nothing else he gets a pass since he doesn't do Magic stuff anymore
if we wanna be really annoying it should really be UGC so it's in the correct order (blue, green, colorless)
you can’t even spell guardian 😂
Wishclaw Talisman was also a staple in Eternal formats in combo decks. A three-mana tutor that says "You have to win this turn" was good enough, especially because you can divide the mana, so you have a lot of resources the turn you go off.
A bunch of Hare apparent with anything that does damage when creatures enter, Arabella, cards that destroy creatures above power x etc is fun to play on arena in brawl so far
I now need a card game youtube musical parody of Little Shop with Cimo as the main love interest just to hear a full version of "Suddenly Cimo"
Neko Mane king. It was a monster that saw niche play in Tear era and if it was sent to the grave (under specific conditions) it ended the turn.
The first rabbit was called The Fur-st Rabbit, a 1/1 1 white white creature. Text: dies to doom blade
It's a shame to show Hidetsugu without showing his Legendary card that taps to deals damage to each player equal to half their life total. It's a garbage combo but those two cards kill someone from 20 life.
Mesa Falcon Guy opening with a Little Shop of Horrors reference is definitely a new direction
Cheetahs are actually closer to house cats than to Lions or Tigers, Felidae (all cats) is split into sub categories, Lions and Tigers are in Pantherinae, and House Cats and Cheetahs are in Felinae.
Love the podcasts! (so far...and yes there are only 2...but im a dude I always pop early that how we are built).
If I loose my rake in the garage this fall, I'm calling cimoooooo to find it
"You're a wizard, Harry" made me lol irl xd
Hare Apparent in commander will be fun because you have a lot of support cards that are not in standard. Thrumming stone, Etb doublers, Token doublers, Bloodbond March, secret salvage, Remembrance. Depending on you colours. Tutoring or looping them is pretty easy. My shadow born apostle deck does similar things only it goes for powerful demons and reanimation loops instead of go wide and hit face.
Quick fact check for the gamers: Tinybones exiles cards after they're already in the graveyard, he doesn't Void them out. So any effects that trigger when cards are discarded still trigger, he just yoinks them as well afterwards
The Niv Mizzet Reborn interaction was great!
51:41 Cimo about Niv-Mizzet "the 7th? [...] That's crazy!"
Cimo... How many versions of Blue-Eyes and Dark Magician are there? Or Gaia... Or Black Luster Soldier... Or Stardust... Or - well, I guess you get the point XD
I think he was shocked in regards to a card having that many in magic, or just in the moment.
And in fairness, there being sevens versions of a character really is insane for a legendary creature who is and has never been a planeswalker.
Cimo talking about "Monster Reborn Reborn" makes me think of The Meathook Massacre 2. Lol
You should make a video asking him whether a card was a key part of a pro tour winning deck. I feel Like that would be more realistic to evaluate and also more along the lines of what he’s asking you to evaluate.
Second Rite was even worse way back when because there was still mana burn, so your opponent could just intentionally lose life whenever they wanted.
I remember some crackpot theorist argued that its existence made red decks better without even playing it because it would be technically correct for your opponents to occasionally burn themselves for one just to preclude the possibility of getting Second Rited but I don't think anyone ever actually did that in practice.
Second Rite did see play back then, though. There was a Boros deck in Kami/Rav standard that only played even damage spells so they could kill you with this (potentially after a wrath).
@@FalseHerald Yeah, wanted to say that. It saw competitive play as far I know.
You'd still have to know to mana burn yourself when you're at 10 though. If Rite is on the stack, and you tap a mana, it's still gonna resolve because there's no phase or step change to burn the mana.
Painlands can do it at instant speed without even giving them a chance to put a second one on the stack in response.
RE: Niv-Mizzet, Visionary. Fun fact - Niv-Mizzet is a recurring character. This version of Niv-Mizzet goes infinite with two previous iterations of himself (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and Niv-Mizzet, Parun).
Edit: NVM he got there in the video lol
Cimo: WHY MUST YOU TORMENT ME
Rarran: Oh dude you are SO right
While you playing MTG, Niv-Mizzet playing 4D chess with himself
Love Cimo, love the whole avengers team up in magic, including those from other games I don't know anything about. This whole series on all the channels have become my favourite things to see show up on youtube. I've watched every video on Cimo's channel I understand, and some I haven't. I just want him to get into arena like Rarran did, that would be a fantastic arc. Also Rarran needs to get back into it, we're still waiting on the limited arc
44:32 "You have no maximum pants size" -- I cannot unhear.
1:01:30 discontinuity was standard legal a few years ago and is generally better than Time Stop
6:00 Cimoooooooo all but exactly imagining the existence of Glorious Anthem and Gaea's Anthem cracked me up.
Nobody tricks Cimo like Cimo.
CGB: _inflicts emotional damage with these quizzes_
Cimo one time: *_Witch's Strike_*
Love the longer form talking videos
So I don't play either of your games (anymore).
But the different perspectives on card game design makes these videos incredibly interesting.
You guys have really nailed a format here.
13:42 So! The earliest card I can find that was printed with the Rabbit subtype is Zodiac Rabbit from Portal Three Kingdoms. However, Kezzerdrix is the earliest card that I can find whose creature type was erratad to include Rabbit, and that's from Tempest. I would argue that Zodiac Rabbit was still the first Rabbit to be printed, but I see the argument for Kezzerdrix.
FYI the Scryfall search I used for this was t:rabbit not:reprint, and I then sorted by Release Date.
You want to play 40 hare apparent because of Thrumming Stone.
For thrumming stone to reliably hit all your Hares, you need ~35 minimum.
With 40 mana sources and 40 Hares, that leaves you 19 support slots
when CGB said “Rabbits have always been powerful” in the movie trailer voice I laughed so hard 😂😂😂
34:54 : I think CGB should have corrected Cimo here. If casting Talisman resolves, the opponent has no window to interact with it if the owner wants to use it immediately. This would then put its effect on the stack (e.g. the opponent does not get priority after casting the card resolves). The opponent could then destroy it but that would make no sense, as that prevents him from getting it. And even if he does, Talisman's effect is already on the stack and would still resolve.
I think that's a subtle difference between the rules of Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh that he's not aware of. (To be honest, I only know about it because of videos like this one.) Apparently (and don't quote me on this because I'm not a Yu-Gi-Oh player), in Yu-Gi-Oh, when a card is about to enter play, you have a window to respond to the card itself entering before its effects become active. The equivalent interaction in Magic is on the stack only: once the permanent enters the battlefield, unless there's a trigger, you have no window to interact - funnily enough, that "unless there's a trigger" has been used at times to _create_ such a window (Omnath, Locus of Creation comes to mind, where the designers specifically said that they wanted some ETB effect so the opponent could kill it in response).
16:45 “one of the fun things about Arena…”
Isn’t Arena and fun an oxymoron ?
No
This isn't exactly a podcast, but it IS what I want.
Having fun watching these as a Yu Gi Oh player. Niv Mizzet Reborn seems like an insanely fun card to build around for commander, get color pairs to each do specific things and then get everything at once.
The earliest card to currently have Rabbit in its typeline is Kezzerdrix from Tempest, but that was added retroactively. Kezzerdrix was originally just a Beast.
The earliest card to have Rabbit actually printed on it is Zodiac Rabbit from Portal Three Kingdoms.
As much as I like Rarran and his chaotic energy, something about Cimoo just constantly channeling a sigh makes your collabs with him even more entertaining. The dynamic is just so fun to watch.
Also, I think Wishclaw Talisman is good for tutoring board wipes when you need them. Good board wipes clear artifacts as well, so you don't have to worry about what your opponent could do with it. Probably pointless in commander though, because you can just play better tutors.
I really really dont like Cimo's normal content and yet still like him here. His energy is so great here and so different from how he normally is.
12:17 Errrm, Awktually! 🤓 "Skull servents" exist and they kind of work that way, but not exactly the same as "Hare Apparent"
I wish Skull Servants worked like magic rats or the hare...
@CatManThree Same, scaling would be insane. Also one hell of a dopamine rush as you see the numbers getting bigger.
I mean, one of the main reasons behind why I like Hare Apparent is that it plays like a storm-ish enabler in Baylen the Haymaker. The tokens draw you cards, net you mana, and you can win on the spot with stuff like Eerie Interlude, Impact Tremors, Warleader's Call, or stuff like Confusion in the Ranks. The card enables you to do some pretty messed up stuff in what's otherwise just another go wide, drop Craterhoof, and hit everyone with an army of 24/24 Trampling Rabbits.
Once you have 5 hare apparents in play, you can start drawing cards and making mana. at 7, the Hare Apparents pay for themselves. Its arguably the more easily abused "You can play any of this" cards in the game, specifically because it makes *tokens*.
Hare Apparent is such a Hearthstone level name of a card lol what an amazing pun
Always great hearing Cimo talk about cards, his intuition is was better than mine for these cards and I've played magic for years!
Fun fact: yugioh is the only card game of the big 3 that never had any card that was allowed to have more copies of itself in the deck than the standard x copies per card limit in the rules allowed
The best duo that is bridging the gap between Magic and Yugioh
I would say team aps and the professor is better
@@NeostormXLMAX I love that collab but just no. They have good chemistry but that collab was mostly mocking yugioh because team aps went out of their way to show the silliest card for someone unfamiliar with the game to see. The commander match was fun but the yugioh side of the collab was just a mess.
Cimo and CGB (and LSV on Cimo's channel) is far better collaboration for me because they try to be fair to each other while still having fun. Feels more like appreciation of the games and their differences unlike the team aps collab where it was more look how bad yugioh is (though I guess thats most of team aps content and community now)
@@sammydray5919 Credits where credit's due, Cimo's take on cross-TCG card review are actually much enjoyable because it's laid down to be a long series. It's almost like he's building a tutorial in the form of these collabs for CGB and LSV that they slowly accumulate knowledge of a different cardgame without actually playing it unlike other channels that just shove extra deck cards and give the bare minimum explanation.
@@jamesaditya5254 Yup. Its why his cross tcg collabs actually work really well for both sides because he goes about it in this way. I enjoy team aps and their collab was fun but it felt so one sided because they just went full in picking up the off hand choices with not much built up or explanation. Evaluating cards from other games can be fun but only as long as its done in a way that allows you to atleast comprehend whats going on. Otherwise there is just nothing but blind guesses which gets old fast unfortunately.
cimo: nope you can't trick me, i only trick myself
CIMOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I Love Cimo/CGB crossover, it's the best dynamic in all of these "Card player rates" videos
KEEP DOING IT
I mean you CAN loop Time Stop. Isoscepter+narsets reversal+unwinding clock
But your just ending ur own turn. What good does that?
@dazbonez3109 it hardlocks your opponents and you can end each of their turns
I was not expecting that Little Shop of Horrors reference at the start, but, chef's kiss. Loved it.
Demonic Tutor was legal in Standard (Type II at the time) when I started playing during Revised. It was restricted, like Fork and Channel and Regrowth etc.
It’s crazy how everyone forgets that Diabolic intent is a 2 mana tutor legal in standard. I’m still shocked that I’ve never seen it even cast in pioneer despite the existence of sac heavy decks
Probably my favorite alt--win in Magic is Revel in Riches. I played in a pre-release 2-Headed Giant tournament. I had a Dino deck with both Huatli's from the first Ixalan sets, and my partner had Revel in Riches. Can't remember if it was both in one match, but he definitely managed to pull it off twice, and we did really well in that tournament. If we didn't win, it was very close.
Part of the new player experience is seeing cards that look exciting and then learning over time why they are actually bad. I think it is important that base sets include cards like Hidetsugu's second rite as tools to help newer players learn how something that might seem good on paper is actually just a pipe dream.
The "Suddenly Cimo" intro made me laugh out loud xD
For the uninitiated, it's a reference to the song "Suddenly Seymour" from Little Shop of Horrors.
Pull From Eternity exists but it hasn't been legal in a hot minute, it's one of the few cards that can grab stuff from exile. Fun fact for newer players, the ancestor of CatPact is Donate/Illusions of Grandeur.
I recently started to play a version of the harmless offering deck (Red, Black and Blue) that also has tech to counter other harmless offering players AND accelerate my own winning plan. For timeless, i play the usual stuff with Harmless Offering, Demonic Pact, Archfiend of the Dross, Greed's Gambit and Coveted Falcon. But i also play Thing in the Ice for early control. And the ace in the sleeve, i play Price of Betrayal and Render Inert. I can activate Thing in the Ice on turn 3. I can insta kill someone if they play Archfiend turn 4. You can also play Battles with this deck and remove counters from those.
Last time I played MtG was -99, never played yugioh. Never miss these collabs!
My friend has a Commander deck with Hidetsugu's Second Rite in it, and the entire reason it's in there is that if they can somehow engineer a situation where they actually resolve its effect, they'll ask the person who they killed with it to sign it after the game. At least three or four people have signed it at this point afaik
I could see a commander deck happening with Impact Tremors (or similar) + Thrumming Stone + Hare Apparent ending games
Fun fact: Hidetsugu's First Rite is the activated ability on his first creature card, which halves all player's life totals. His second rite kills someone who was hit by the first [at full life].
For anyone curious. The first Rabbit in MTG was printed in 1998 in Exodus. Jackalope Herd.
this information is vital
Jackalope Herd was originally a beast, and was later errata'd to be a rabbit beast. If that counts, the first rabbit was Kezzerdrix from 1997's Tempest, which was also later errata'd from beast to rabbit beast. The first creature that was actually originally printed with the rabbit type was Zodiac Rabbit from 1999's Portal Three kingdoms.
@@Zeckenschwarm no, THIS is vital information
the first thing that came to my mind is the infamous 'vizzerdrix', but i think that's a beast and not a rabbit, right?
@@Unicron187 Vizzerdrix was also originally printed as a beast (in 1999) and later errata'd to be a rabbit beast.
Good to know that both card games have their own number of guys that have somehow returned
I pulled a 60$ rabbit when bloomburrow released. It's probably like 40-45 now. Finneas as the special foiling. Only pack I bought. Lol..
The first rabbit in MTG was Kezzerdrix.
Tempest, Rare, monoblack and terrifying art.
The second rabbit was Jackalope Herd, Exodus, 1998 monogreen creature.
Third was Zodiac Rabbit, followed by what I thought was the first rabbit, Vizzerdrix also in 1999. Also terrifying art.
Then no more rabbits until 2020, and in the last 4 years they released 32 more rabbits, creating the archetype of "spam out many small rabbits and eat the enemy with them"
I'm more hyped for Hare Apparent with self mill and mass reanimation than just "I play my rabbit for turn and pray for no board wipe"
"it's funny that cats are a type."
My guy, we have sushi gunships.