JUST finished MY Warbird build today! Finally got the right length stem after a bike fit and I'm ready to roll!!!! Build it specifically for the DK next year. Let's ride soon! I'm gonna do some photos tomorrow and get em up on Insta.
Congrats on your choice. I bought my ‘18 Cutthroat Rival after your review. I also have 2 sets of wheels. One with the stock tires and another with 42c Specialized Sawtooths. They’re great for tooling around town on the road and grippy enough for gravel roads. I currently have the stock 11-42 rear cassette but thinking of putting an e13 11-46 for easier climbs.
Chosing the cut throat based on comfort over speed should make the gearing a easy solution. A chain ring swap or cassette change or both will give you what you need . I would not underestimate the potential value of an oval ring. My legs feel fresher longer since switching !
I demo’ed a Warbird, and it felt great pedaling and with transfer of energy, but I felt jarred with every bump and pothole. This, to me, defeats the purpose of getting a gravel bike.
Hey Russ, What are you guys using for fuel on these long rides? What are you taking for electrolyte replacement tabs/mixes? Gels? Snacks? Whats your go-to pre-ride food/meal (when your not doing fasted workouts)?
You could get an adapter by wolf tooth that sits just above the rear derailleur which makes it possible to use an mtb mech with a road shifter. Also you could ad a one up extender and cage. That would enable you to run an 11spd 11-50 cassette.
I have an ultegra groupset and I've switched to an 11 - 40 mtb cassette and wolf tooth mech extender. I kept my ultegra mech though, great bonus it worked with this set up.
I put 11-50 on w/o need for wolf tooth- the Apex seems very adaptable. Also put 32 up front. All I need is an oxygen tank strapped to me and I can get up anything! Oh, and I copied Laura with the bars- v comfy.
I have two wheelsets for my Cutthroat. One is the original that came with the bike and the other is a Stan's Crest with my gravel tires on it. I swap the 11-speed 11-42 cassette between the two. For gravel I run a 34 tooth in the front. It gets me low enough for the hills and unless I'm on a fast downhill or in a paceline (which rarely happens in a gravel ride) I don't feel the need for another gear. Just my two cents. Works for me.
I don't know how easy it is to swap to an XD driver on your wheelset but you could go smaller, not bigger with the cassette. 38-11 is a gear ratio of 3.45. The XD cassette has a 10T cog meaning you could go down to a 34 front ring, combine that with the 10T cog and you get a 3.40 gear ratio. So you maintain the high end while getting a lower gear and of course you could go even lower.
Do you feel the Cutthroat is more comfortable as a result of the carbon frame or because the geometry is more upright and with a less aggressive wheelbase?
I did the Festive 500 on a steel bike with very similar geometry to the Cutthroat. I ran it 1x, with 34x40 as my lowest gear (which is plenty low enough unloaded). My frame will take 29x2.6 or 27.5x3.0, and for the Festive 500 I ran it with 42mm tyres on Stan's Crest rims. It was comfy with pleasant handling -- a real joy to ride. So I'm wondering if you can just get a smaller chain ring for the Cutthroats, choose your tyres, and call it a day at that. I'm not sure what cassette you've got, so perhaps an alternative cassette would be useful too, but that's certainly what I'd do. Mine was 10x and it was fine. I also find 1x11 fine for general purpose riding and bikepacking (i.e. I'm not short of gears).
I think it's a great choice. Especially considering all the non cluth derrailleurs (and front der. Too For that matter) that have been destroyed in these gravel races. As for speed, the Cutthroat should be faster on the rougher sections anyways. Youll lose some time on the smooth bits but oh well.
Do you do your own work? Have you considered swapping drive trains between the Cutthoat and Warbird for the ride? (If that is possible....I haven’t seen either) It involves work and some expense but you probably need new bar tape in the Spring anyway.
Its a bit complex between the two bikes. For one, both bikes use internal cable routing and the cables are going to be different lengths between the two bikes. I don't know which groupsets he's running, but if one's Shimano and one's SRAM, then there may be a bottom bracket problem. Also with the crankset is chainring clearance moving the Warbird's crankset over to the Cutthroat.
A bit off topic for this post, but when you did your Cutthroat review, you mentioned that you had both the Rival and Apex models. I don't think you mentioned the differences, and your preference, if you had one. I realize you rode the Apex, and Laura rode the Rival, but can you comment on the differences? TIA
For ease of maintenance I actually prefer the Apex. Still don't have much experience working with hydraulic brakes. In terms of stopping power the Rival is pretty awesome. You have access to full stopping power from the tops and don't have to get in the drops. Shifting is about par, though the Rival shifters take a lighter touch.
Maybe I missed that. The Salsa website doesn't do a particularly good job describing the differences (other than price). Is Rival hydraulic and Apex not?
Hey Russ...what size Cutthroat do you ride. You seem to be around the same size I am at 5'7" and 30" inseam. I have a lead on a frame and want to get another opinion. Cheers!
The Cutty is my very most favorite bike I’ve ever owned, but for Kanza, I’d really recommend the warbird. There will be wind, and it most likely will be strong, so having a bike that gets you a Little more streamlined is a pretty big benefit after 12+ hrs. And tires, if I did it again, I’d prolly do 35 or 38. You certainly don’t need to be anywhere near 50, that will just cause you to work more. Low gear for The Hills is good, but a big gear for tail winds is nice too. Having multiple bottle mounts that the Cutty has would be a nice benefit that you didn’t mention, I carried 3 bottles with me Just my 2cents
I'm running 42 w/ 11-28 but its extremely flat where I'm at. If over 100mi you have less than 2000ft of climbing, go with a 38, 40 or 42. If there's more or significantly more, you going to want to go lower. Chances are, that Sunrace cassette won't last very long, that's been mine and other's experience.
That’s what I did. The stock wheels on the Apex build come with a Shimano driver on the formula hubs but you can buy an Xd driver. Talk to Salsa they’ll give you the part number
I am not a Trek Fanboy, actually I don't like the brand much, but the I bought a Boone w/ the ISOspeed decoupler a few years back, and the new Checkpoints seem to have improved on everything for gravel. If you haven't ridden a Trek with ISOspeed, its worth having a look at! Otherwise, another one that packs tons of value is the Norco Search XR. It has tons of mounts, 650b 2.1s or 700c x45 along with a 40T w/ 10-42. I've been on SRAM Apex for my commuter for about 2yrs now and its been perfect! Its a good option if you have access to a Norco dealer.
Soooo the Cutthroat shows to be $5 big ones! I see there are different levels depending on what you get on the bike. Which level Cutthroat did you test? I really enjoy y'all's videos. I'm currently looking to purchase a Specialized Diverge. Thoughts? 😁
Having those two bikes to chose from is a good problem to have.
hahahah
JUST finished MY Warbird build today! Finally got the right length stem after a bike fit and I'm ready to roll!!!! Build it specifically for the DK next year. Let's ride soon! I'm gonna do some photos tomorrow and get em up on Insta.
Congrats on your choice. I bought my ‘18 Cutthroat Rival after your review. I also have 2 sets of wheels. One with the stock tires and another with 42c Specialized Sawtooths. They’re great for tooling around town on the road and grippy enough for gravel roads. I currently have the stock 11-42 rear cassette but thinking of putting an e13 11-46 for easier climbs.
Chosing the cut throat based on comfort over speed should make the gearing a easy solution. A chain ring swap or cassette change or both will give you what you need . I would not underestimate the potential value of an oval ring. My legs feel fresher longer since switching !
I demo’ed a Warbird, and it felt great pedaling and with transfer of energy, but I felt jarred with every bump and pothole. This, to me, defeats the purpose of getting a gravel bike.
hahaha it's sad and funny at the same time that you need to put that disclaimer at the start.....
I'd take comfort over speed all day.
try a smaller chain ring on your 1x
Hey Russ, What are you guys using for fuel on these long rides? What are you taking for electrolyte replacement tabs/mixes? Gels? Snacks? Whats your go-to pre-ride food/meal (when your not doing fasted workouts)?
You could get an adapter by wolf tooth that sits just above the rear derailleur which makes it possible to use an mtb mech with a road shifter. Also you could ad a one up extender and cage. That would enable you to run an 11spd 11-50 cassette.
Yeah. Would love to run a 11-50 on the Cuttie.
I have an ultegra groupset and I've switched to an 11 - 40 mtb cassette and wolf tooth mech extender. I kept my ultegra mech though, great bonus it worked with this set up.
I put 11-50 on w/o need for wolf tooth- the Apex seems very adaptable. Also put 32 up front. All I need is an oxygen tank strapped to me and I can get up anything! Oh, and I copied Laura with the bars- v comfy.
I have two wheelsets for my Cutthroat. One is the original that came with the bike and the other is a Stan's Crest with my gravel tires on it. I swap the 11-speed 11-42 cassette between the two. For gravel I run a 34 tooth in the front. It gets me low enough for the hills and unless I'm on a fast downhill or in a paceline (which rarely happens in a gravel ride) I don't feel the need for another gear. Just my two cents. Works for me.
I don't know how easy it is to swap to an XD driver on your wheelset but you could go smaller, not bigger with the cassette. 38-11 is a gear ratio of 3.45. The XD cassette has a 10T cog meaning you could go down to a 34 front ring, combine that with the 10T cog and you get a 3.40 gear ratio. So you maintain the high end while getting a lower gear and of course you could go even lower.
Do you feel the Cutthroat is more comfortable as a result of the carbon frame or because the geometry is more upright and with a less aggressive wheelbase?
Yeah go 30/32 wolfie front ring, lower the stem 1cm and ride the Cutty, maybe even change the bars if theyre wider than 46cm...
"Don't get your feelings hurt if our opinions don't line up" would be a great line when dumping someone.
one of you should do it on the warbird and one the cuthroat...
Can you do an update on the Cutthroat after you put the smaller /thinner tires on it
I'm disappointed that you're not taking the Brompton for the kanza.. maybe next year?✌🤓🚴♀️🚴♂️
KLUNKER 714 nah... gotta be Moulton
I did the Festive 500 on a steel bike with very similar geometry to the Cutthroat. I ran it 1x, with 34x40 as my lowest gear (which is plenty low enough unloaded). My frame will take 29x2.6 or 27.5x3.0, and for the Festive 500 I ran it with 42mm tyres on Stan's Crest rims. It was comfy with pleasant handling -- a real joy to ride.
So I'm wondering if you can just get a smaller chain ring for the Cutthroats, choose your tyres, and call it a day at that. I'm not sure what cassette you've got, so perhaps an alternative cassette would be useful too, but that's certainly what I'd do. Mine was 10x and it was fine. I also find 1x11 fine for general purpose riding and bikepacking (i.e. I'm not short of gears).
Cutty is 38t in the front and 40 in the rear. Geared a little too high IMO. Will prob go that route and get a 34.
Russ, just switch the chainring from the stock 38t(?) to something way smaller. Even a 30t would make it much better.
I think it's a great choice. Especially considering all the non cluth derrailleurs (and front der. Too For that matter) that have been destroyed in these gravel races. As for speed, the Cutthroat should be faster on the rougher sections anyways. Youll lose some time on the smooth bits but oh well.
Check out bigger SunRace cassetes, they might seal the deal with Cutthroats
You could just swap the sunrace 11-42 for the sunrace 11-46
Do you do your own work? Have you considered swapping drive trains between the Cutthoat and Warbird for the ride? (If that is possible....I haven’t seen either) It involves work and some expense but you probably need new bar tape in the Spring anyway.
I do some. Don’t have all the tools to swap drivetrains.
Its a bit complex between the two bikes. For one, both bikes use internal cable routing and the cables are going to be different lengths between the two bikes. I don't know which groupsets he's running, but if one's Shimano and one's SRAM, then there may be a bottom bracket problem. Also with the crankset is chainring clearance moving the Warbird's crankset over to the Cutthroat.
Any reviews coming soon? Could you check out Alpkit bags, they seem to be well priced and good quality
A bit off topic for this post, but when you did your Cutthroat review, you mentioned that you had both the Rival and Apex models. I don't think you mentioned the differences, and your preference, if you had one. I realize you rode the Apex, and Laura rode the Rival, but can you comment on the differences? TIA
For ease of maintenance I actually prefer the Apex. Still don't have much experience working with hydraulic brakes. In terms of stopping power the Rival is pretty awesome. You have access to full stopping power from the tops and don't have to get in the drops. Shifting is about par, though the Rival shifters take a lighter touch.
Maybe I missed that. The Salsa website doesn't do a particularly good job describing the differences (other than price). Is Rival hydraulic and Apex not?
Yes. Rival is hydraulic. Apex is cable.
Hey Russ...what size Cutthroat do you ride. You seem to be around the same size I am at 5'7" and 30" inseam. I have a lead on a frame and want to get another opinion. Cheers!
I’m 5’8 29 inseam. Medium cutthroat.
Thinking of purchasing an open up or open upper. What are your thoughts and can u acquire one to test ride. Thanks enjoy your comments Steve d.
Trying to get one to test ride. Hopefully in a few weeks.
They are awesome bikes. Are they both carbon frames?
The Warbird we have is AL though there is a carbon version available.
The Cutty is my very most favorite bike I’ve ever owned, but for Kanza, I’d really recommend the warbird. There will be wind, and it most likely will be strong, so having a bike that gets you a Little more streamlined is a pretty big benefit after 12+ hrs. And tires, if I did it again, I’d prolly do 35 or 38. You certainly don’t need to be anywhere near 50, that will just cause you to work more. Low gear for The Hills is good, but a big gear for tail winds is nice too. Having multiple bottle mounts that the Cutty has would be a nice benefit that you didn’t mention, I carried 3 bottles with me Just my 2cents
Would the double you have on the Warbird not work on the Cutthroat?
Maybe, but really don't want to deal with that change.
I’ve got a Sunrace 11-42 cassette on my Marin Gestalt. What you think for a gravel chainring? I’ve got 42 now. 38? 36?
I'm running 42 w/ 11-28 but its extremely flat where I'm at. If over 100mi you have less than 2000ft of climbing, go with a 38, 40 or 42. If there's more or significantly more, you going to want to go lower.
Chances are, that Sunrace cassette won't last very long, that's been mine and other's experience.
Josh K cheers Josh!👍🏻
I'd ride the Cutthroat with Continental Race Kings in 29 x 2.0. They measure 48mm on my 23mm internal width rims.
slap a 11-42 cassette on the cutthroat same speed as your shifter. Done. I wouldn't use the warbird if there is any chance of mud.
Check out the e13 trs+ cassette. It's runs on a sram xd driver but gives you a 9-46 range while also being very lightweight.
Great tip. Will do.
That’s what I did. The stock wheels on the Apex build come with a Shimano driver on the formula hubs but you can buy an Xd driver. Talk to Salsa they’ll give you the part number
Did u have any friends that had a ibis or niner gravel bike did they like them
A few friends with the Niner who like them.
Been wondering the same thing. I'm between a Warbird, Cutthroat, and RLT 9 , -- just learned today that Warbird is sold out in my size. :(
I am not a Trek Fanboy, actually I don't like the brand much, but the I bought a Boone w/ the ISOspeed decoupler a few years back, and the new Checkpoints seem to have improved on everything for gravel. If you haven't ridden a Trek with ISOspeed, its worth having a look at!
Otherwise, another one that packs tons of value is the Norco Search XR. It has tons of mounts, 650b 2.1s or 700c x45 along with a 40T w/ 10-42.
I've been on SRAM Apex for my commuter for about 2yrs now and its been perfect! Its a good option if you have access to a Norco dealer.
How do you guys feel about the 1x?
Mixed. Great for events but not for touring. Just put a smaller chainring on the Cutthroat for touring.
Soooo the Cutthroat shows to be $5 big ones! I see there are different levels depending on what you get on the bike. Which level Cutthroat did you test? I really enjoy y'all's videos. I'm currently looking to purchase a Specialized Diverge. Thoughts? 😁
Apex. Most affordable. Ride handling doesn't change between them just components and weight.
I am curious who the "we" is. Are you talking about you and your wife?
👏