You should get back into it, it's a blast. Made even better by the fact that you can learn so much about it from Spirit's videos to play at a higher level than you could just going alone
The best one on one is Malians Or Bulgrarnians(Witch are basically evenly matched) Best ageist archers are Sicilians, Best in terms of cost is Poles(Drawback is they such agiest archers) In fact Poles are the only Cavilers that cost effectively beat Paldins.
Looking at how the Cavalier needs barely 1 more hit for the Arbalests I would guess that having a Persian team mate for the sweet +2 attack against archers will lead to an even better performance than the compared Paladins (for which the bonus would be unnecessary and have zero effect).
@@ScudForEver Should be irrelevant in a team game though, or it is pretty much is over already. Trashbows can be good in 1v1, but when your enemies have arbs and are pushing you, making it impossible to trade whilst your enemies are trading all day long, your trashbows won't be effective, not in holding and never in actually pushing back. In the case you're pushing or there's a stalemate, you should have trade up and running lategame and then you'll never want trashbows, you'll just need arbs or a comparably powerful/ even more powerful ranged unit (i.e. Mangudai, Arambai, Longbows, cav-archers etc, situationally smth like khmer scorps or Conqs).
@@AGoodLittleSub well, if you take micro (not just macro) into acount and the fact that range unis are OP in general compared to melee, trashbows are still a solid counter against albs and other units non ranged melee units, you can't overlap melee units and still being able to attack with all of them like range units can. In any case, the mayor factor here build be if the opposite team have a good siege civilization with good onagers, in that case trashbows and any kind of mass albs/elephants would be useless (unless someone micro like shit and don't take good care of their siege units).
Sicilian is still not a good civ, but if you are losing against them going imp. It's very hard to comeback against their ealry imp power spike in 1v1. Especially if they go to imp loke 20 seconds ealry.
On paper it sounds good but in practice, for hit and run, reaching 26 elite genoese for one-salve kill cap is not that far from 18 required for a FU paladin - compared to 70/60 xbows (because with a solid genoese ball, hit and run tactics vs cavalry lead to already ton of overkill, considering regular post imp archer ball sizes). But yes, its a bit less effective (but very effective nonethless!) when attack moving/patrol with a meat shield
"A weakness to archers has always been a key feature of cavalier civilisations" as we cut to see a bunch of cavaliers completely mulching a squad of arbalests.
yeah it really gives you a chance to pounce on someone being greedy and going for Paldin, in which case their likely to not have as many units as you due to the upgrade cost. You may be able to chase Spanish and franks around quite awile. Of course the drawback is when the other player has Paladin Scicealians are pretty outgunned, but they do have a window to kill even the best cav civs
@@ZhangJingxi That I have to disagree with. Yes, Paladin is absurdly expensive and stalls your production, leaving you vulnerable for quite a bit, but it gives you an extremely large power spike. Not only do you chew up enemy cavalier, but you disintegrate arbalest, whereas Caviler is far more squishy. Hence why both in low leval and high leval teamgames, Paldin is quite commen in the late game
@@blaubeer8039 rarely is like 15%. I watch a lot of games from high and low elo. I would estimate seeing paladin in maybe 15% to 20% of the games at high level TG. It is very common in low elo TG though. So maybe you are talking about low level
Paladin upgrade is not expensive. It's like a upgrade of any unique unit in terms of gold and for food just have heaps of farms and use the market for shortfall
Judging by the amount of likes many of us do, but I don't. It's a cool intro, but watching the same intro again and again feels repetitive/wasteful to me.
Will you make a video on team bonus synergy? What lineups for a 2v2 or 4v4 game would combine the best team bonuses? What set of civs could build the best team? Maybe see if a 2v2 combo has a disproportionate win rate.
I think we could use a winged hussar video too. Thanks for this one. Haven't finished the video but I just assume they're better vs halbs/arbs, worse vs other cav.
*"Uh sir, I don't think we can go toe to toe with enemy paladins"* *"Don't be **_sicily,_** we don't need to fight them. Just send them **_chain mails._** That should do it"*
Good way to analyse military abilities of various civilizations and making a strategy to defeat your oponent and counter all kinds of attacks. Know your opponents strength and weaknesses.
I love this upgrade. Now, you can go full cavalier in some situations (arbs, CA/mangudai/WW), you can go halb siege (closed maps) or a mixture. Their play style is quite similar to civs like Bulgarian, Teuton and Slavs. Very strong late game against most civs, only Teutons and Slavs are "hard counters" in late game. Btw, their eco is only "weak" in feudal; as long as you're not forced into an extended feudal time (maybe Donjon rush failed), in castle age, they can more than catch up to most other civs. If you're fighting against a stronger cav civ like Franks, add halbs, due to the 50% negated bonus damage, you win whether he mirrors it or not (sacrificing pop-efficiency and mobility of course). Again only melee specialists like Slavs and Teutons can steamroll sicilians, they're competitive against every other civ in pure melee and outright destroy camels. They're somewhat suboptimal against certain gun powder-civ timings though but they aren't alone in that department.
very well described. i hate the upgrade for the reasons you mentioned. Besides the almost uncounterable Serjeant they now have another almost uncounterable unit with mobility. the only weak point is still the early game. For that reason i'll keep on consistently douching sicilians, so i do not have to face their lategame
Love this Tech for them, first of All another buff to weak civ and Also it makes sense since Normans weren't known for it's heavily armored cavalry (that's why they don't have paladins) but were know for it's seasonal, veteran knights thus Hauberk suits them perfectly
what made sicilians weak was their early game. it's just helping their lategame which was already op. they now have 2 almost uncounterable units in Serjeants and cavaliers
@@stefanandrejcik571 Serjeants get 8PA, so they eat arbs. against either unit, Cavalier and Paladin are hardly cost-effective and die to a few halbs mixed in. HC vs Serjeant works, but you need to get to some mass after researching chemistry. Halb vs Cavalier does half bonus damage and cannot force an engagement
I think you forget a popular scenario in videos: team fights. Cav+archer vs cav+archer is the default scenario and sicilian cavs will perform even better.
It feels like they're supposed to have "Mini-paladins", which as the focus for a unique tech, feels like the opportunity cost trade off alone makes them balanced.
Can you remake a new video about the best paladins in all AOE 2? I mean, there have been different patches and updates and so it would be useful to have such a video as a new guideline about paladins or cavaliers.
This is fascinating to be honest, it really does seem like the Sicilians just have the more "defensive" vers of everything - unique infantry, unique imperial knight tech, etc.
Im really enjoying playing as the Sicilians and I tend to really play heavily into defensive strats waiting a while to get things built up then go out for a giant battle and while the less bonus damage is nice I do wish the Serjeants were a bit better as they are tanky and seem to go through buildings quick they still feel kinda questionable to use a lot
I would have liked a comparison head to head to Farimba Cav or Stirrups Cav. They perform better vs ranged units, camels or halbs, but those techs also affect light cavalry which is very useful in other situations. I feel like comparing them head to head could be interesting.
@spirit hey, just a friendly suggestion/thought but could you consider focusing a bit in your future videos on how to COUNTER the unit in question for other civs? IE: not just mentioning their weaknesses but how to more practically force games into situations where they matter? I loved the previous times you brought pro's to talk about things so maybe repeat that some more? I'd love for that to be a regular thing along with showing key moments of pro-level games and memes.
@ Spirit Of The Law Sicilian cavaliers take 10 hits from a generic heavy camel and not 12 like u show in the video i was doing a bunch of tests on bonus damage reduction and wanted to see the difference the nerf of 50% to 35% did and also was trying out some other values when i refered to ur old video and found the mistake cheers!
what about sicilian cavaliers with a persian ally?? I remember you saying that the team bonus don't so shit for paladins against arbs because of overkill but it makes cavaliers have same attack as generic paladins
You should be able to recruit quite a bit more sicilian cavalier for the same amount you ressource which you would have to invest to recruit paladins no? In direct head to head confrontation against paladins, for the same amount of ressources, the sicilians cavalier should have numerical advantage, which could turn the battle around?
I can imagine that the reason why Sicilian cavaliers get more pierce armor than generic paladins is because they're supposed to be the "crusader" civilization and therefore more likely to be facing horse archers. So they wanted to give an in-game reason for the historical reality that was the success of the First Crusade
No mention of italian genoese crossbowmen when it comes to bonus vs cav and sicilians? Also what about vikings and other bonuses in general. Should the developers make cav archers tougher (act like knight that fires arrows), but make skirmishers do a lot more bonus damage vs cav archers?
So what should a Frank player do if the Sicilian player made a failed archer raid killed several arches without significant casualties, but instead of following up on his moment of weakness the Frank player just focused on getting to Castle Age?
The counter to Sicilian Cavaliers, is something that can basically take their bonus armour and tell it to bugger off. Teutonic Knights, War Elephants, Cataphracts with logistica, Slav infantry splash damage... anything that looks at that +1/+2 and scoffs at it. even the Leitis of the Lithuanians ( everyone's favourite anti-Teuton unit ) would decently counter the Sicilians Cavaliers now. basically anything that hits like a dump Truck in Melee. alternatively, you could go for siege, but I don't think that'd work too well.
Yeah I guess the Sicilians are a trickster civ, in the sense that they can pull of anything (archers/siege/knights/infantry), but never exceptionally well. So they have to play against the enemy's weaknesses.
Something I've noticed while playing against the AI, is that it really struggles to play the Sicilians effectively. It's almost always at the bottom of the scoreboard. And personally, if I knew someone was playing the Sicilians I'd probably take the Italians as a counter.
The only advantage Sicilians have in dark age is a free transport ship, so a militia rush can get you started on even footing, but as soon as feudal age rolls around, the 50% bonus damage reduction is already on the table. With the 100 stone and better Horse Collar, the Sicilian economy can hold its own rather soon into Feudal Age. The only notable hole for Sicilians in castle age is lack of thumb ring. The Sicilian player won't want to commit heavily into crossbows because of this, so you may get an advantage by forcing them into it. A strong castle age unique unit like conquistador could also give you an advantage. Otherwise you will be at a disadvantage until imperial age upgrades come in, where Sicilians have many holes.
So what is up with those civs that don't get Paladins but get a unique tech that makes them just as good as a Paladin? Or don't allow Halberdiers, but still make Pikemen just as good, etc.? How about the devs think of a different tech and just let the civs upgrade to those units?
Inspired by this video, here's my attempt at making the *tankiest* Paladins of all time. --- LANDSHIP CIV Civ Bonuses:- Gold Mines last 30% longer (Malians) Land units except siege weapons take 50% less Bonus Damage (Sicilians) Mounted Units have +20% HP (Franks) Barracks and Stable units gain +1 melee armour in the Castle Age, and another +1 melee armour in the Imperial Age (Teutons) Stable units gain +1 pierce armour in the Castle Age, and another +1 pierce armour in the Imperial Age (Indians) --- Unique Unit: Longbowman (Britons) --- Technology Tree: Magyars Unique Technologies:- Castle Age: Szlachta Liberties (Poles): -60% Knight line cost Imperial Age: Hauberk (Sicilians): Knight line gains +1/+2 melee/pierce armour --- Team Bonus: Stables work 20% faster --- With these bonuses and all upgrades, a Paladin has: 216 HP, 2+6 armour, and 3+8 pierce armour. It also costs a mere 45 gold and 60 food. Of note, however, is that their bonuses aren't all solely reserved for the Knight line - their Hussars benefit from +20% HP and +2/+2 to their armour as well, which boosts their lategame even though you're swimming in Gold. Of course, it might be possible to turbocharge your way through all the armour with a dedicated Knight line damage Civ, but would that even be enough? I hope that this was interesting and gave y'all food for thought. =]
The obvious counter is to not use a counter at all, kappa. But seriously, as you showed initially Paladins still dominate Sicilian Cavaliers so going Paladins against them is still a great choice.
I guess an interesting question is does the sicilian cavalier out peform the top paladin civs cavaliers, like in that window where they are upgrading to paladin are they evenly matched or are they able to cease that moment?
Small grammatical correction: you meant 'seize,' meaning to take hold of / secure, rather than 'cease,' meaning to stop doing something. I don't mean to be pedantic, just one of those situations where the two words sound almost the same when you say them out loud, but typing the wrong one ends up meaning basically the opposite of what you intended haha... All that pedantic stuff aside, I expect in a real game, the speed with which a Sicilian player could mass up a fully upgraded cavalier army could probably outpace a lot of traditional late-game paladin civilizations and hit them harder than they expect in late Castle/early Imperial age, but it would be really interesting to see how this change affects those win rate vs game length graphs for the Sicilians
Sicilians get access to the cavalier (and halburk) tech in castle age, so the windows don't line up. When cavaliers meet on the battle field, Sicilians should always be strictly better (assuming no other bonuses on the other side)
@@JimRFF fair enough on the grammar, I guess the part I find hard to believe about a cavalier is for a specific example, if a Teuton army chose to ignore paladin and go for cavaliers, then they'd have the upper hand isnce they also have better armor, and a similar scenario with the frank hp bonus, it might be competitive to try to outrun the paladins, but if they match your rush with superior cavaliers then they could just pick up paladin whenever
Course they are, more resilient to spears/pikes/halberds and the castle upgrade is cheaper than Paladin upgrade so Paladins just have more hp but less effective hp against counters. ORDINI ?
He's showing the % of the Halb HP that's left. The Sicilians did more damage overall because they survived longer and were thus able to keep doing more damage
Hey spirit I got an idea for a video (I'm sure you don't get a million of these from your viewers) but it would be interesting to have a top 5 civ list based solely on generic upgrades ( no unique techs).
What's with the devs making the paladin upgrade more and more useless when it comes to the new civs? I see more and more civs not getting paladin, yet their cavaliers are almost if not up to par with others paladins(not the op ones but the generic ones)
yes, but not archers. and cavalry will probably not work either, as a few halbs mixed in will destroy them after you've invested everything into paladin upgrade. Champion could work, but lacks mobility, and they're not good enough to take the fight under enemy castles. Maybe the new HC can do something
![Tarkan vs Knight [AoE2]](/img/n.gif)
I don't even remember the last time I played AoE2, and yet I'm still strangely compelled to learn about just about every topic you cover
AOE2 nuzlock when?
How's your bread doing BTW?
Man why the people I watch, watch the same things I do!? It's like we all have the same taste!
You should get back into it, it's a blast. Made even better by the fact that you can learn so much about it from Spirit's videos to play at a higher level than you could just going alone
@@Paintplayer1 you should play Definitive edition!
Choose your fighter!
Berbers: Cheaper cavalier
Bulgarians: Faster attack cavalier
Malians: Higher attack cavalier
Poles: Even cheaper cavalier
Sicilians: Beefy cavalier
Go Malians!
Burmese: Siege Cavalier.
The best one on one is Malians Or Bulgrarnians(Witch are basically evenly matched) Best ageist archers are Sicilians, Best in terms of cost is Poles(Drawback is they such agiest archers) In fact Poles are the only Cavilers that cost effectively beat Paldins.
@@ethanpappas2502 what are ageist archers? Do they discrimate against castle/imperial age units
Frank paladin, thanks
Looking at how the Cavalier needs barely 1 more hit for the Arbalests I would guess that having a Persian team mate for the sweet +2 attack against archers will lead to an even better performance than the compared Paladins (for which the bonus would be unnecessary and have zero effect).
Who wants 2 cav civs unless it is 4v4?
@@eget4144 well, Persian are good late range civilization, because they can get crossbows for just wood.
@@ScudForEver Should be irrelevant in a team game though, or it is pretty much is over already. Trashbows can be good in 1v1, but when your enemies have arbs and are pushing you, making it impossible to trade whilst your enemies are trading all day long, your trashbows won't be effective, not in holding and never in actually pushing back. In the case you're pushing or there's a stalemate, you should have trade up and running lategame and then you'll never want trashbows, you'll just need arbs or a comparably powerful/ even more powerful ranged unit (i.e. Mangudai, Arambai, Longbows, cav-archers etc, situationally smth like khmer scorps or Conqs).
@@AGoodLittleSub well, if you take micro (not just macro) into acount and the fact that range unis are OP in general compared to melee, trashbows are still a solid counter against albs and other units non ranged melee units, you can't overlap melee units and still being able to attack with all of them like range units can. In any case, the mayor factor here build be if the opposite team have a good siege civilization with good onagers, in that case trashbows and any kind of mass albs/elephants would be useless (unless someone micro like shit and don't take good care of their siege units).
Sicilian is still not a good civ, but if you are losing against them going imp. It's very hard to comeback against their ealry imp power spike in 1v1. Especially if they go to imp loke 20 seconds ealry.
Against genoese crossbows their higher pierce armor and resistance to bonus damage both work together.
It's basically an anti-Italian unique tech for Sicilians. Beautiful how that works.
On paper it sounds good but in practice, for hit and run, reaching 26 elite genoese for one-salve kill cap is not that far from 18 required for a FU paladin - compared to 70/60 xbows (because with a solid genoese ball, hit and run tactics vs cavalry lead to already ton of overkill, considering regular post imp archer ball sizes). But yes, its a bit less effective (but very effective nonethless!) when attack moving/patrol with a meat shield
@@Payneonline That's 44% more Genoese crossbows required. That's a lot!
@@Payneonline i think 26 compare with 1 is not a bit. It is too damn huge
What do Sicilian cavaliers and small kitchens have in common? They're tough to counter.
I'll see myself out.
I was expecting something about an unnecessary island...
... I'll also see myself out...
I'd have gone with "They have few counters."
@@Qlmmb2086 , that's good too.
All of us sit around waiting for SOTL to answer all the questions we have everytime a new patch comes out 🤣
all while not playing the civ or even the game
"A weakness to archers has always been a key feature of cavalier civilisations" as we cut to see a bunch of cavaliers completely mulching a squad of arbalests.
Who in their right mind would ever let the arbalest stand still, or without a frontline protection though
Lesgooo, i was literally wondering this yesterday when i was maining cavalier with Sicilians.
Thanks for another great video!
The 3 min time window is massive in team games.
yeah it really gives you a chance to pounce on someone being greedy and going for Paldin, in which case their likely to not have as many units as you due to the upgrade cost. You may be able to chase Spanish and franks around quite awile. Of course the drawback is when the other player has Paladin Scicealians are pretty outgunned, but they do have a window to kill even the best cav civs
In team game rarely see paladin. Once cavalier production stops for a while the base is overwhelmed. Paladin upgrade is so fking expensive
@@ZhangJingxi That I have to disagree with. Yes, Paladin is absurdly expensive and stalls your production, leaving you vulnerable for quite a bit, but it gives you an extremely large power spike. Not only do you chew up enemy cavalier, but you disintegrate arbalest, whereas Caviler is far more squishy. Hence why both in low leval and high leval teamgames, Paldin is quite commen in the late game
@@blaubeer8039 rarely is like 15%. I watch a lot of games from high and low elo. I would estimate seeing paladin in maybe 15% to 20% of the games at high level TG. It is very common in low elo TG though. So maybe you are talking about low level
Paladin upgrade is not expensive. It's like a upgrade of any unique unit in terms of gold and for food just have heaps of farms and use the market for shortfall
Just so you know SOTL, we really do miss the intro…
Second
Third.
Judging by the amount of likes many of us do, but I don't. It's a cool intro, but watching the same intro again and again feels repetitive/wasteful to me.
Spirit of the law best youtuber ever
The best part about a new AoE2 dlc is that we'll get more SotL vids
Will you make a video on team bonus synergy? What lineups for a 2v2 or 4v4 game would combine the best team bonuses? What set of civs could build the best team? Maybe see if a 2v2 combo has a disproportionate win rate.
No offense. But I was thinking how +2 pierce armor with less bonus dmg receiving will perform against Genoese xbow
Considering Elite genoese : 3+7=10 dmg or 18 arrows to kill the paladin, 2+7/2=5.5 dmg or 26 arrows for Sicilian cavalier
Genoese xbows will deal 6 dmg per attack needing 24 shots per sicilivan cavalier. Against generic paladin they need 18 shots.
My dopamine levels shot up when Spirit said “Here’s a graph…”
Considering the Paladin matchup vs. Halbs is salvaged by avoiding overkill, how do Sicilian cavalier hold up vs. Viking and Aztec Pikemen?
Thanks for all the informative videos you create. I appreciate all you've taught me about AoE 2
I think we could use a winged hussar video too. Thanks for this one.
Haven't finished the video but I just assume they're better vs halbs/arbs, worse vs other cav.
Hey man thanks for the help, after watching your fast castle video, I won 2 non ranked matches in a row! Your the best!
I was waiting for this video! Thanks!
*"Uh sir, I don't think we can go toe to toe with enemy paladins"*
*"Don't be **_sicily,_** we don't need to fight them. Just send them **_chain mails._** That should do it"*
I love the outro-song. It is a staple of the channel now. I love music. I love the intro too.
Your videos got me back into AOE 2. Love it, keep up the good work!
Good way to analyse military abilities of various civilizations and making a strategy to defeat your oponent and counter all kinds of attacks. Know your opponents strength and weaknesses.
I love this upgrade. Now, you can go full cavalier in some situations (arbs, CA/mangudai/WW), you can go halb siege (closed maps) or a mixture. Their play style is quite similar to civs like Bulgarian, Teuton and Slavs. Very strong late game against most civs, only Teutons and Slavs are "hard counters" in late game. Btw, their eco is only "weak" in feudal; as long as you're not forced into an extended feudal time (maybe Donjon rush failed), in castle age, they can more than catch up to most other civs.
If you're fighting against a stronger cav civ like Franks, add halbs, due to the 50% negated bonus damage, you win whether he mirrors it or not (sacrificing pop-efficiency and mobility of course). Again only melee specialists like Slavs and Teutons can steamroll sicilians, they're competitive against every other civ in pure melee and outright destroy camels. They're somewhat suboptimal against certain gun powder-civ timings though but they aren't alone in that department.
very well described. i hate the upgrade for the reasons you mentioned. Besides the almost uncounterable Serjeant they now have another almost uncounterable unit with mobility.
the only weak point is still the early game. For that reason i'll keep on consistently douching sicilians, so i do not have to face their lategame
Also don't forget the extra conversion res from monks they get from First Crusade.
Love this Tech for them, first of All another buff to weak civ and Also it makes sense since Normans weren't known for it's heavily armored cavalry (that's why they don't have paladins) but were know for it's seasonal, veteran knights thus Hauberk suits them perfectly
what made sicilians weak was their early game.
it's just helping their lategame which was already op. they now have 2 almost uncounterable units in Serjeants and cavaliers
@@derikaem8021 serjeants - arbalesters, hand canooners, Cavaliers, paladins
Cavaliers - Halberdiers, paladins
Easy
@@stefanandrejcik571 Serjeants get 8PA, so they eat arbs.
against either unit, Cavalier and Paladin are hardly cost-effective and die to a few halbs mixed in.
HC vs Serjeant works, but you need to get to some mass after researching chemistry.
Halb vs Cavalier does half bonus damage and cannot force an engagement
I think you forget a popular scenario in videos: team fights. Cav+archer vs cav+archer is the default scenario and sicilian cavs will perform even better.
It feels like they're supposed to have "Mini-paladins", which as the focus for a unique tech, feels like the opportunity cost trade off alone makes them balanced.
Another great class of empires. Thank you font of knowledge.
Can you remake a new video about the best paladins in all AOE 2? I mean, there have been different patches and updates and so it would be useful to have such a video as a new guideline about paladins or cavaliers.
This is fascinating to be honest, it really does seem like the Sicilians just have the more "defensive" vers of everything - unique infantry, unique imperial knight tech, etc.
Im really enjoying playing as the Sicilians and I tend to really play heavily into defensive strats waiting a while to get things built up then go out for a giant battle and while the less bonus damage is nice I do wish the Serjeants were a bit better as they are tanky and seem to go through buildings quick they still feel kinda questionable to use a lot
I would have liked a comparison head to head to Farimba Cav or Stirrups Cav. They perform better vs ranged units, camels or halbs, but those techs also affect light cavalry which is very useful in other situations. I feel like comparing them head to head could be interesting.
How good is Teuton post imp scouts?
Better than Korean Hussar
@spirit hey, just a friendly suggestion/thought but could you consider focusing a bit in your future videos on how to COUNTER the unit in question for other civs? IE: not just mentioning their weaknesses but how to more practically force games into situations where they matter? I loved the previous times you brought pro's to talk about things so maybe repeat that some more? I'd love for that to be a regular thing along with showing key moments of pro-level games and memes.
Great vídeo, but you missed out the one archer that counters cavalry, the genoveose crossbow
Asking the Real questions now ;)
@ Spirit Of The Law Sicilian cavaliers take 10 hits from a generic heavy camel and not 12 like u show in the video
i was doing a bunch of tests on bonus damage reduction and wanted to see the difference the nerf of 50% to 35% did and also was trying out some other values when i refered to ur old video and found the mistake
cheers!
what about sicilian cavaliers with a persian ally?? I remember you saying that the team bonus don't so shit for paladins against arbs because of overkill but it makes cavaliers have same attack as generic paladins
You should be able to recruit quite a bit more sicilian cavalier for the same amount you ressource which you would have to invest to recruit paladins no? In direct head to head confrontation against paladins, for the same amount of ressources, the sicilians cavalier should have numerical advantage, which could turn the battle around?
Much better for raiding v castles and town centers. Early Imp wonder how many cavaliers it takes to destroy a fully garrisoned TC?
I can imagine that the reason why Sicilian cavaliers get more pierce armor than generic paladins is because they're supposed to be the "crusader" civilization and therefore more likely to be facing horse archers. So they wanted to give an in-game reason for the historical reality that was the success of the First Crusade
I thought it was just a buff for team games and 1v1s against archer civs, but that's a nice lore explanation.
I wish you could do like 8v8 matches with a 75 or 100 pop limit.
Where did the old intro music go?
No mention of italian genoese crossbowmen when it comes to bonus vs cav and sicilians? Also what about vikings and other bonuses in general.
Should the developers make cav archers tougher (act like knight that fires arrows), but make skirmishers do a lot more bonus damage vs cav archers?
So what should a Frank player do if the Sicilian player made a failed archer raid killed several arches without significant casualties, but instead of following up on his moment of weakness the Frank player just focused on getting to Castle Age?
so Bohemian spearline is the only unit which does more bonus damage to a Cataphract than they do to a Sicilan Cavalry unit, Interesting!
More armor, but ALSO 33% less Bonus damage from pikemen. That’s pretty massive when you compare them against something like franks
The counter to Sicilian Cavaliers, is something that can basically take their bonus armour and tell it to bugger off. Teutonic Knights, War Elephants, Cataphracts with logistica, Slav infantry splash damage... anything that looks at that +1/+2 and scoffs at it. even the Leitis of the Lithuanians ( everyone's favourite anti-Teuton unit ) would decently counter the Sicilians Cavaliers now. basically anything that hits like a dump Truck in Melee. alternatively, you could go for siege, but I don't think that'd work too well.
Yeah I guess the Sicilians are a trickster civ, in the sense that they can pull of anything (archers/siege/knights/infantry), but never exceptionally well. So they have to play against the enemy's weaknesses.
cumans dont have husbandry, so they are more like 5 percent faster?
Yeah, they are only 5% faster
Now what if the next patch applies the bonus to light cavalry as well?
what about Genoese Crossbows though?
But what about not fully upgraded Paladins - Byzantines and Celts? How they look compared to Sicilian Cavalier?
They still win, but barely. Tested it on the editor some time ago.
Does the Sicilian knight/cavalier attack even HAVE a counter? I have lost every single game where the opponent does that.
WHERE'S THE INTRO, DID YOU LOST THE VIDEO FILE? COULDN'T FIND THE SONG? WHAT HAPPENED 😭😭😭😭
They certainly look better. The Cavalier model did always look better than the Paladin to me.
Sir.Buckethead, see yourself out!
I like to imagine these Cavalier wear an extra layer of armor and look like a Michelin Man in steel plates
Something I've noticed while playing against the AI, is that it really struggles to play the Sicilians effectively. It's almost always at the bottom of the scoreboard. And personally, if I knew someone was playing the Sicilians I'd probably take the Italians as a counter.
How are Italians a counter to the Sicilians?
😂
If you try and counter them by knocking them out early… do you end up doing it 50% less early?
The only advantage Sicilians have in dark age is a free transport ship, so a militia rush can get you started on even footing, but as soon as feudal age rolls around, the 50% bonus damage reduction is already on the table. With the 100 stone and better Horse Collar, the Sicilian economy can hold its own rather soon into Feudal Age. The only notable hole for Sicilians in castle age is lack of thumb ring. The Sicilian player won't want to commit heavily into crossbows because of this, so you may get an advantage by forcing them into it. A strong castle age unique unit like conquistador could also give you an advantage. Otherwise you will be at a disadvantage until imperial age upgrades come in, where Sicilians have many holes.
@@yahm0n thank you for your well thought out helpful post. Genuinely. But it was just a joke comment about their counters doing 50% less damage
So its a power spike buff? You get the 'almost paladin' power faster timed correctly its terrifying otherwise not so much
Be nice to see a comparison based on x amount of resources.
what about equal resources Sicilian Cavaliers vs Paladins (of any other civilization)?
they cost same
So what is up with those civs that don't get Paladins but get a unique tech that makes them just as good as a Paladin?
Or don't allow Halberdiers, but still make Pikemen just as good, etc.?
How about the devs think of a different tech and just let the civs upgrade to those units?
Yeah, but what about genoese crossbows?
0:32
Halberd? Don’t you mean “hauberk”?
Inspired by this video, here's my attempt at making the *tankiest* Paladins of all time.
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LANDSHIP CIV
Civ Bonuses:-
Gold Mines last 30% longer (Malians)
Land units except siege weapons take 50% less Bonus Damage (Sicilians)
Mounted Units have +20% HP (Franks)
Barracks and Stable units gain +1 melee armour in the Castle Age, and another +1 melee armour in the Imperial Age (Teutons)
Stable units gain +1 pierce armour in the Castle Age, and another +1 pierce armour in the Imperial Age (Indians)
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Unique Unit: Longbowman (Britons)
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Technology Tree: Magyars
Unique Technologies:-
Castle Age: Szlachta Liberties (Poles): -60% Knight line cost
Imperial Age: Hauberk (Sicilians): Knight line gains +1/+2 melee/pierce armour
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Team Bonus: Stables work 20% faster
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With these bonuses and all upgrades, a Paladin has: 216 HP, 2+6 armour, and 3+8 pierce armour. It also costs a mere 45 gold and 60 food. Of note, however, is that their bonuses aren't all solely reserved for the Knight line - their Hussars benefit from +20% HP and +2/+2 to their armour as well, which boosts their lategame even though you're swimming in Gold. Of course, it might be possible to turbocharge your way through all the armour with a dedicated Knight line damage Civ, but would that even be enough? I hope that this was interesting and gave y'all food for thought. =]
The obvious counter is to not use a counter at all, kappa. But seriously, as you showed initially Paladins still dominate Sicilian Cavaliers so going Paladins against them is still a great choice.
Sicilians before patch: You live and die on your power spikes
Sicilians after patch: My noob dream, one unit to (almost) rule them all!!
Sicilians kinda already had that in the serjeants
Dude please do the poles civ overview
SOTL try the new infinite resource mode vs AI,they rush you so bad it is impossible to counter
Honestly, your best counter to Sicilians are infantry civs. Aztecs, Teutons, Slavs, etc.
I guess an interesting question is does the sicilian cavalier out peform the top paladin civs cavaliers, like in that window where they are upgrading to paladin are they evenly matched or are they able to cease that moment?
Small grammatical correction: you meant 'seize,' meaning to take hold of / secure, rather than 'cease,' meaning to stop doing something. I don't mean to be pedantic, just one of those situations where the two words sound almost the same when you say them out loud, but typing the wrong one ends up meaning basically the opposite of what you intended haha...
All that pedantic stuff aside, I expect in a real game, the speed with which a Sicilian player could mass up a fully upgraded cavalier army could probably outpace a lot of traditional late-game paladin civilizations and hit them harder than they expect in late Castle/early Imperial age, but it would be really interesting to see how this change affects those win rate vs game length graphs for the Sicilians
Sicilians get access to the cavalier (and halburk) tech in castle age, so the windows don't line up. When cavaliers meet on the battle field, Sicilians should always be strictly better (assuming no other bonuses on the other side)
@@JimRFF fair enough on the grammar, I guess the part I find hard to believe about a cavalier is for a specific example, if a Teuton army chose to ignore paladin and go for cavaliers, then they'd have the upper hand isnce they also have better armor, and a similar scenario with the frank hp bonus, it might be competitive to try to outrun the paladins, but if they match your rush with superior cavaliers then they could just pick up paladin whenever
@@DraconianEmpath ah I forgot about the castle age part
@@DraconianEmpath First Crusade is the Castle Age tech.
can u use a web cam one time plz. lol idk but i have always wondered what u look like lol....ps great video !!!!
maybe 10+ hp and/or 1+ attack would make it better?
The last time I was so early the Crusades weren't a thing.
missing the intro :(
So, basically a Cavalier + Hauberg is a Paladin light.
Course they are, more resilient to spears/pikes/halberds and the castle upgrade is cheaper than Paladin upgrade so Paladins just have more hp but less effective hp against counters.
ORDINI ?
Just imagine Sicilians had paladins upgrade... Its too op, i already like to play as Sicilians.
"filthy sicillians" me, an italian genoese crossbowman
cumans are 15% or 5% faster ?
They miss Husbandry so they end up being roughly 5% faster.
I don't understand 2:29. You said sicilians better durability is better but they completely lost against the halbs unlike the spanish paladins?
They dealt more dmg to the halbs because they were alive for longer
He's showing the % of the Halb HP that's left. The Sicilians did more damage overall because they survived longer and were thus able to keep doing more damage
Oh got it. I dunno why I skimmed over that.
Why every youtuber I watch released videos at the same time? I've three videos already
lmao the final make me happy even with that music
last aoe2 video, rip
1:35 and the bulgarian with +25% attack faster :)
Those archers fell victim to one of the classic blunders!
Sicilians = Normans. They should have good cav bonus
they already had the best cav bonus in the game
I think the biggest play for sicilians is still to exploit the 100% castle buildtime bonus
Hey spirit I got an idea for a video (I'm sure you don't get a million of these from your viewers) but it would be interesting to have a top 5 civ list based solely on generic upgrades ( no unique techs).
What happened to the intro?
What's with the devs making the paladin upgrade more and more useless when it comes to the new civs? I see more and more civs not getting paladin, yet their cavaliers are almost if not up to par with others paladins(not the op ones but the generic ones)
Quite dissapointing not seeing any comparison to Tarkan.
well sicilians now have the best farms so they do have great economy.
Sounds like the counter is just overall stronger units
yes, but not archers. and cavalry will probably not work either, as a few halbs mixed in will destroy them after you've invested everything into paladin upgrade.
Champion could work, but lacks mobility, and they're not good enough to take the fight under enemy castles.
Maybe the new HC can do something
Sicilians as civ they are very good serjents with cavaliers siege onagers and siege rams
SOTL if you keep saying good things about Sicilians they are gonna get nerf'ed :L
sotl of the law
Shotel of the Law.
Yes they are because meatball powered horses
I'm sicilian, but i only play aoe3 lmao, why am i getting this reccomended