@@master_samwise This feels like a statement that needs more context. If your character genuinely is those things, aren't you just discussing the character at that point? Or do you mean in the sense of other characters delivering shoe-horned in praise?
@@jacobd1984I read that as: if the only way you know a character is these things is by someone describing them that way in the story instead of that character just demonstrating these qualities, then they aren't really those things.
"You still block with your face..." That one Tough Woman sentence from Ekho tells you yes, Vi is a strong woman. But she is very far from perfect and flawless.
Additional thing of note is that Ekko and the firelights are literally the only ones in the show to care about defense. They swarm like flies, hit, and scatter.
The lack of defense is an artifact of her training with that device in their hideout. It score on force and moves targets, making her an exceptional striker, but it couldn't do more than perfunctory blows in return, creating a few bad habits for Vi. A few months sparring with a real person should clear that up.
@@katyushamarikov8819 Fr fr… It still works for the characters and plot, and I can't really complain or stay mad cus she basically spends the rest of her life trying to make up for that one mistake. You can blame some of it on Powder too technically, but yeaaaah pretty sure everyone was kinda pissed about Vi kinda leaving her sister to die after punching her, due to a non-malicious mistake (despite the horrific cost of said mistake). Kinda hard to be mad or stay mad at Vi (okay, maybe a little) or Powder, really. Jinx is more pitiable than hateable for me.
@@katyushamarikov8819 Don't forget the part where she's so obsessed with having things her way and living up to Vander's legend (no matter how many times he tells her that'll cause nothing but trouble and pain) that she insists on raising her sister as a thief and gang member. Or how, after she gets out of prison, she's incapable of seeing Jinx as her own person with trauma and baggage (all of which stems from Jinx's childhood need to impress her sister) and repeatedly refers to Jinx's traumatic memories as if they were in some way positive for her. Honestly, Vi's kind of a terrible, selfish person, and an even worse sister. She raised an antisocial terrorist and is all 'surprised pikachu face' when Jinx chooses the version of herself that her adoptive father loved and accepted, trauma and all, over desperate, clingy child her sister blamed for all of their pain and hardship. Hell, if Vi hadn't insisted on robbing Jace's lab/apartment in the first place to prove how tough and resourceful she is, her little adoptive family would still be alive and her sister wouldn't be a villain suffering from PTSD. Vi only gets a pass from the audience because they identify with her and don't question her morals or judgment too closely.
I don't think it can be overstated how crucial Vi's relationship with Vander is when it comes to establishing her as a likeable character who we want to root for. In my opinion, the single main problem with the typical Hollywood girlboss is that they never have a mentor, someone who they learned from before they were capable enough to fight their own battles. Because...for these characters, there never WAS a "before". They were ALWAYS strong, always capable, always had the power within themselves and the only obstacle that's ever been in front of them is the doubt and persecution heaped on them by others. That's the whole point of the flashbacks to young Carol Danvers, or the character of young Leia in whatever garbage Disney+ show that was. But none of this is true of Vi, and we see that through her interaction with Vander. Sure, when she's out on the street with her ragtag band of kids, she's scrappy, tough, and resourceful. She's in charge. But then we see her with Vander, and the roles are reversed. She's not in charge any more, because she's a kid, and he is for all intents and purposes her father. She has conflict with him, but when push comes to shove she trusts him with her whole heart to protect her and their family. She learns from him, because that's what parents are for. It's implied beyond any doubt (without ever needing to be said outright, bravo writers) that Vander taught Vi how to fight, but more importantly than this, he mentors her in more nuanced ways. One conversation between them establishes their entire relationship, that at one point in the past he must have recognized something of himself in her and has taught her how to be like him because that's the kind of person she wanted to be. (Side note: the fact that they allowed a male character to have this level of positive importance in the development of a female lead is actually like...borderline revolutionary these days.) And the audience NEEDED that. We needed to watch Vi learn from and rely on someone to see that, yes, she is actually human. She didn't come into the world having all the power and all the answers from the moment of birth. She was shaped in both positive and negative ways by her environment and by the people around her, especially her father. That story has truth to it, it resonates with all of us, so we love it and we love her. Hollywood, take notes.
I love that you use the Hawkeye show to demonstrate "tell, don't show" when the actress for Kate Bishop also does the voice for both Vi and Spider Gwen.
I thought that was pretty funny too. I generally liked Hawkeye FWIW, and Kate was a pretty good character. It just wasn't exactly a masterclass of storytelling.
Personally I don't think the scene was bad. A throwaway line in a conversation is fine, plus it was implied from the start she wanted to be like hawkeye from the first frame. There are far worse culprits of that.
Actors have a lot to do with how a character is perceived but at the end of the day they’re still constrained by what the writers, directors, and producers give them to work with. Hailee Seinfeld is a great actor and the fact that she’s behind both great characters and less-great ones shows that there’s more to it than her acting chops
Vi is literally one of my favorite characters in modern media. She's so inspiring and strong willed, yet grounded, extremely relatable, and earns each and every one of her victories. Not to mention having an awesome design and multifaceted dynamics with a host of other character (which, in my opinion, is the the hallmark of a fantastic character).
There will always be one scene that I believe doesn't make sense whatsoever in Arcane. And that's Vi/Jayce against the chemguards in episode... I think it's 8? These things were portrayed as superhuman monsters capable of oneshotting police men. Sure, Vi and Jayce are capable fighters and they have powerful tools at their disposal, but it still doesn't change the fact that they were fighting beings that were physically vastly superior to them and they were somehow demolishing them 2v15. That's the one shitty instance I can think off in Arcane.
I don't know if I'd argue that Vi is inspiring. Vi is so single-minded and self-centered that she raises her kid sister to be a thief, gang member, and terrorist, all because she idolizes the worst decisions their adoptive father figure made in his life. She encourages her sister, who's barely a teenager, to risk her life on dangerous jobs despite having no real means of defending herself, all so that Vi can prove she's the next big thing in Zaun and make Vander proud, no matter how often he tells her to stop putting her family's lives at risk over her own ego. Vi is superficially strong, in that she can punch her way through any situation and keeps going no matter how hard she gets beat down. But that's also the only way she knows how to deal with any problem, and lacks anything resembling wisdom or empathy. She had years in prison to think about what the root cause of the events leading up to Vander's death was, and it never once occurs to her that she encouraged Powder to build bombs, to take unnecessary risks to impress her big sister, and to be involved in their little gang no matter how obvious it was that it was a terrible idea. She's completely incapable of recognizing who Powder and Jinx are as people, and can only view Jinx's exceptionally traumatic and formative experiences through the lens of her own perception. She doesn't get for even a second that the deaths of their family broke Jinx; that her memories of the others torment her. Ultimately, if Vi had listened to Vander even once and been an empathetic, responsible leader, the events of the show would never have taken place. Instead she was committed only to her own ego and self-righteous need to to get back at Piltover for the death of her parents, and it cost Jinx her childhood, her innocence, and her identity.
@@lotus2001 Powerful tools yes, and the canon form of Jayce's Hextech hammer is undeniably the strongest asset they had, but these tools don't invalidate the physical limitations of their bodies. Yes, I will accept that Vi can throw super punches and that Jayce's hammer can vaporise things out of existence, but these cannot effectively defend them from unnatural speed and force capable of tearing apart a grown man in an instant... Especially when they're this outnumbered. Vi took hits in that fight should have been lethal several times over, her body isn't made of steel.
I love how in her first fight, Vi was on the receiving end of the “slo-mo punch” face. You know the one, where the character’s face gets punched, and it’s unflattering, and sometimes there’s saliva flying out of their mouth. And Vi gets up and keeps on fighting, and eventually wins through superior technique. I’ve found that quite a few modern female action leads tend to win their fights right off the bat, and if they do get hurt then it’s not nearly as visible. Their hair and makeup are perfect, or at least presentable, they’re not bruised or scraped or even sweaty, particularly on the face. And if such a character ever suffers a facial injury, it’s always a strategically placed cut that makes her look pretty. Her injuries are literally used as makeup. I’m a woman who’s practiced MMA, and Vi is one of my favorite characters of all time. Her determination, her leadership, her pragmatism, her genuine love and protectiveness for her family, the way she cares for Powder but still encourages her to push herself and live up to her potential. Vi is amazing. Arcane is amazing.
@@AlexMunz-bg3bc The same chains as always, except now their price tag says “PROGRESSIVE™️”. The successful commercialization of legitimate progress will always amaze me.
I've heard it said several times - Arcane does a great job of showing us women beating the shit out of other women. And not in the way it usually goes, where all the parties look graceful. I don't remember if I've ever seen a female character spitting out a tooth after getting in a fight before, but Arcane does it, and it makes the fight feel more real and the character look more badass.
Yes! I love that Arcane felt like a world that truly had no sexism (by the creators own efforts), and it’s awesome. It gives women just as many unsexy moments as men. It gives men just as many sexy moments as women. There are physically powerful masc women (Vi), and there are indirectly powerful fem women. (Mel) There’s physically powerful masc men (Jayce), and there are indirectly powerful fem men. (Silco. Sure he’s not super fem in the traditional sense, but he uses makeup and his words to appeal to and persuade people.) We truly get to see a full spectrum of expression, and it’s great! More of modern media needs to get over its fear of being daring. Variety makes things better, not worse.
I also believed the monster comment Vi was talking about herself. That her striking her sister out of anger has forever tainted her image of herself. The line reads “Then a real monster came along, and I ran away” Silco showed up after Vi ran away. She was the monster
definitly not. it's quite obvious that she meant silco there. She failed to rescue powder from silco. But all the jinx-silco-lovers always come up with the theory that vi might see herself as the monster (it seems like those people see vi as the monster even though the video you just watched explained perfectly that while vi was wrong in punching powder, it was a totally understandable reaction). Watch the show again. VI hates silco. In her eyes, he is responsible for this.
@@tvolz9749 There's nothing understandable about assaulting a family member -- especially a smaller one, out of anger. Vi knows she is the core reason behind all of the events. It was her heist into Piltover. It was her carelessness that gets them caught. It was her attempt to "Make things right" that got Vander locked up in the first place. It was her decision over and over and over that led to the groundwork for Jinx to exist. And the final blow was her hitting powder and yelling at her, abusing her greatest fears, then running away. Vi recognizes that in that moment. She is the monster. She may hate Silco, but she also very clearly regrets her decisions and hates herself. Silco is just Silco. Vi was the monster hiding under Powders bed just waiting to use her fears against her. Intentional or not. Vi astutely recognizes she was the monster in that moment. The show leaves it ambiguous enough to generate conversation and interest as each person will interpret it slightly different, and flock to speak about it.
@@HauntingSpectre ah, so silco isnt responsible for bringing the whole family in a dire situation? So you will just forget that 1. Vi is a child herself and that 2. She just lost everyone and that can kinda mess you up? All those silco lovers will always say, that silco isnt the true monster, but vi is. Just because they dont want to see, that silco just murdered people and kidnapped people and abused people. But sure. Vi is the monster here, because she did hit her sister after her sister killed everyone else, vi loved. Ofc Vi thinks she is responsible. But she will always feel like that because vander told her so. The problem is: can a child carry such a burden? Would you think, a child can carry this burden? Did you never get angry with family members in your whole life? People just tend to forget that vi is a person too...and a child. Who lost just as much as powder did.
I understand the love for Jinx. She's a great character. But to me, Vi was absolutely the heart of the show. And I definitely related to her character and story arc the most.
@@momokillerfilda funny thing for me it was the same even though I find Vi's arc not only nice but insanly good. But I relate more with jayces story. Cuz I am a guy who went to a school with a hard focus on natural science and never really had a physical fight after the age of 12 or so. And I also had a very good friend in school with whom I had a huge fight around the 11th class and like 3 years of no contact after that.
Vi is amazing for sure but Cait has also a good loving heart..I’m not sure which one is number 1 lol they both show it in different ways and this is also one of the things they love most about each other and ime too
Vi is the character that generates the most rejection for me. She gets stuck in a two-day relationship with a fair-skinned girl with blue hair, towards whom she assumes a protective role (a tricky situation given all these similarities with her younger sister and their relationship). But, in addition, the girl in question, Catelyn, turns out to be a high-class enforcer, none other than the daughter of a counselor. It's like she directly represents the two things that led to the murder of her parents: the decisions of the Piltover council and the executive hand of its police forces. Furthermore, she idolizes Vander, a guy who, while appearing decent, if we analyze his story, after leading Zaun to rebellion, backed out and betrayed many of his people in the cruelest way (like stabbing Silco). However, he also reached an agreement with Piltover's police for peace, which continued a general situation of misery and inequality in Zaun that affected him to a lesser extent because it allowed him to have his place and maintain his dealings to survive and also act as a boss in the underground city. In short, he abandoned his revolution but managed not to come out too badly and maintained his status with a criminal life of theft and smuggling while the city seemingly continued to bleed, an opportunistic traitor who claims to prefer peace when it is evident that peace as such does not exist for most of Zaun. To make matters worse, in Chapter 8 (Water and Oil) when they present themselves to the council, Catelyn, respectfully and prudently, does not provide information about Jinx, as she knows she is Vi's sister. But it is Vi herself who betrays her sister to the council and points her out as the main perpetrator of the attacks, that is, SHE SNITCHES ON HER SISTER, the one she claims to protect above all, conditioning the entire unfortunate outcome of the plot because Jayce will demand that Silco hand over Jinx in the future. Not satisfied with the council's decision to negotiate with Silco and proclaiming without any arguments that Silco would never agree to negotiate (which we know is a lie because Silco's main motivation for terrorism is to coerce the Piltover government to listen to his conditions, as Silco is a guy who always has clear intentions, and his plans are only destabilized by his paternal feelings towards Jinx), she shouts furiously at them, completely driven by her resentment towards Silco and never thinking about what is best for Zaun and its people. Later, she persuades Jayce to take direct action against Silco, and when things go awry after the fight and Jayce is horrified by causing the death of a child, Vi remains impassive and, despite condemning Silco for his cruelty, acts in the same way and delivers a speech of moral relativism that only serves to justify her personal war against Silco and his terrorist organization, once again neglecting the needs of Zaun, all this after joining the same repressive forces that act against the population of the underground city and killed her parents. Ultimately, during the macabre dinner in Chapter 9, she shouts at Jinx the names of Mylo, Vander, and Claggor, completely destabilizing her, something quite obvious given that Jinx is completely traumatized by having caused the death of these people who basically constituted her family, something more than misguided, but cruel, stupid. Certainly, Jinx is not wrong when she says that she is the one who created the monster. Finally, this is in addition to what is narrated in Arcane. If we look at League of Legends, Vi is basically an authoritarian enforcer who believes she is above the law, a vigilante who fights on the side of Piltover. I can't think of a worse traitor to her people and her class.
One thing I love about Vi is her relationship with Cait. Initially, it's purely transactional, but it grows into something so beautiful. Two people, who come from two completely different lives, finding love in one another is just the best.
In Legends of Runeterra (League of Legends card game) one character from Zaun says phrase, that in my opinion perfectly explains Vi's character: "Tough places bring tough people".Vi is strong and tough because she has to be in order to survive. She is the product of environment, she grew up in. In different circumstances she would probably be much softer. But you have to be tough to survive in the Undercity, and that's why Powder constantly gets berated by Mylo - she is not tough enough.
Empathy in tough female characters pretty much sums it up. People tend to look up to empathetic characters. Like yeah they can kick a** but that doesn’t mean they can’t show love and compassion towards others ya know. Definitely what Hollywood gets wrong, Hollywood is like let’s bash others and claim to be tough, when really those characters are weak minded, would actually make great writing for villainous character 😂 because of how unlikeable the traits are.
+ every strong character needs someone to learn from. Yes you can teach yourself alot, but you will only get to a certain point alone. Either a mentor or a training partner are crucial.
The best part of Arcane's writing is subtly and the willingness to show, not tell. Characters should be strong, but not flawless. And emotions like empathy shouldn't be considered a weakness. I rewatched Arcane recently and I swear that I notice something new that I didn't notice before every time I do so. It still blows my mind that a show this good even exists, especially in this era of generally shoddy storytelling and lazy writing.
I doubt this would even be considered a "Hot Take" but here is the disclaimer anyways. The characters in Arcane are written so well that even if they didn't come from a famous or popular IP the world would still have loved the show. Yeah it helped that the IP got a large portion of the initial audience but I think this show would have blown up in popularity on the basis of it being a good story alone.
I agree. I’ve never played LoL in my life, but I loved it. I know people who never play video games who love it. Being tied to an existing IP probably helped, and basically everything is now, but I’m okay with that if the production level is this high.
that last part about the politics, Arcane is very political and has tons of paralles to real life politics, but its because its exploring our politics indirectly and not just taking politics from our world and just dumping it unaltered into the story.
I agree with almost everything you said, but I can’t agree that Vi and Jinx wouldn't be as close if they didn’t share a gender because that's just not the case. I know a lot of people who have a brother and a sister and are equality close to both of them, me included.
I agree, Nier and Yonah from Nier: Replicant are a great example of this. And I mean both Nier's and Yonahs. (If you know, you know, if not, play the game.) Though I would also have to disagree with his you should hate and shouldn't resonate with anti-hero comment as well. I can not hate, and also quite resonate, with the Punisher, John Wick, and Red Hood (Jason Todd).
I think it’s because being tough and stoic is not all Vi is. Yeah she has a tough exterior but given what Vi went through losing her parents, father figure and spending years wrongfully in prison, that would fuck anyone up. When you’ve been burned as many times as we’ve seen Vi get burned, you become a different and colder person. But the writers are smart enough to make her funny and still vulnerable and caring underneath it all, as well as blinded by her love for Powder rather than trying to embrace Jinx. All of the women in Arcane are impeccably written.
14:30 I interpreted "the monster" as both Silco and more importantly Vi herself because Vander had warned her about relying on violence to solve problems/obstacles.
Ahh times fighter.., vi is truly a fascinating one especially when the string she pull are all for her family , she is a true favorite with the no in-between of being an almost " mother-figure" or daughter Arcane is a wonderful story shockingly from LoL
Vi wants to be the protective mother but also the encouraging sister and she really struggles with that. It’s not delved into a lot but it’s still very important for her character.
@@master_samwise A hard balance to find as an older sister for sure. You can see this dynamic play out in other great works of fiction. Til We Have Faces is another great example.
I said in the first upload but it's crazy how iconic her character has become with just one season! I love everything about her character like everything from dynamics to the voice acting. And the fact that she's just so cool.
Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever been so absolutely transfixed by a fictional character like I am with Vi. I never get to see a character that’s so imperfectly perfect, and even if I wasn’t also immensely attracted to her, I’d still have trouble not admiring her because she’s just that interesting and likable. And the way she cares for her family just makes my heart melt every damn time 😭
I feel like in any other modern story Vander and his sons would've been either misoginistic or overprotective and essentially useless. But Arcane shows us how much they mean to Vi, and their loss is a tragedy that takes a toll on her, not some character building moment that allows her to finally discover her True Potential. That fleshes her out even more and makes us feel for her while not taking away from her strength. That really shouldn't be this rare in media.
I love that Vi and Vander disagreed but a I still totally trusted Vander. It’s almost a shame his story ended so soon because their relationship was really great to see.
@@master_samwise I actually kinda expected him to be killed off at the very beginning as it often happens to mentors. My expectations weren't very high for sure:)
@@master_samwise what do you know about the situation of Uighur in China? Because serie's producer, Riot games, is subsidiaries of Tencent , a Chinese company? But good video
Vi is an amazing character, she's so wonderfully (and sometimes heartbreakingly) human. Honestly, Arcane is just a masterclass on so many things: character, animation, music -chef's kiss- Great video, really liked how you pointed out the uniquely female traits of her character too. Male and female characters are written differently and Vi is my current go to example of how to do it well!
20:50 That’s interesting, because I believe it’s impossible to create a story completely separated from our reality, no matter the setting or plot. Characters relationships reflect our life experiences, like you said when explaining why vi hurting her sister feels so relatable. The writer’s values influence his story telling, and these values are in part formed by modern politics. That is why modern fiction depicts more women in position of power than stories from the 60s, it has become more common therefore art changes to reflect reality. I don’t think most writer think about it while working either, it’s just an inescapable part of making art, it will always be based on life.
There will always be parts of our reality that seep into the stories we tell, for sure. But HOW those ideas or values are infused really matters. Too often, writers just want to make a point about some issue or current topic and thrust it into the story, because they are so wrapped up in our world that they don't allow the one they are creating to just exist. Andor, for example, is a political show. The heavy-handed brutality of the Empire is akin to what governments have done and are doing. But the show works that theme in as a believable part of the world. It's earned. Rings of Power, on the other hand, just says "hey let's throw some tidbits about racism and anti-immigration in here" and gives cheap, unearned lines to minor characters that do nothing for the actual story.
You make great points, and about 6:12, it's not to say Arcane doesn't have moments like this. They do, but instead of using these callouts to hype man girlbosses, of which there are several, they use them to underscore the traits that are truly important about them versus capacity for violence or physical strength. "You've got a *good heart.* Don't ever lose it." "What makes you *different* makes you strong. Always remember that, okay?" "Do I look afraid to you?" --> "No, you look *weak."* "It's not enough to survive. You have to *give people what they need to live."* Vi has a good heart, which isn't a requirement for a strong female character or for success in this harsh world, but that's what defines her most and drives her choices. Even the violent ones. Powder is not like the others, but Vi sees potential rather than deficit here, which we later see is right. Jinx figured out everything it took Jayce and Viktor combining their wealth of resources and brainpower to uncover on her own, in a dingy scrap heap versus their expensive laboratory equipment and funding from The Council. She learns to make gadgets that are impressive to even someone like Viktor or Jayce, all on her own. All because Vi and SIlco nurtured the things about her that were disparaged by Mylo and seen as unfavorable in general in this world. Vander cared so much for the kids that he sacrificed a lot related to his cause. Some may argue he lost too much in that pursuit since it got him killed. Although at the same time, if Vander had not cared for them the way he did, they would be dead or at best locked up in that prison by enforcers for the rest of their lives. Vi and Powder would have been on their own if he never took them in. Vi would be dead if he didn't choose to save her instead of go after Silco. He, in a way, became a mother hen for the group, but this isn't treated as weakness by the plot, despite the characters seeing it this way. Some of the series' biggest wins come from his nonviolent choices. Ekko opts for damage control versus outright annihilation like Vi does, a happy medium between Vander and Vi/Silco's philosophies. He stays out of conflict and waits for optimal moments, at which time he THEN decides to use only the necessary amount of violence. He's not a female character, but I still wanted to point this out since inaction is often conflated as both a weak and a feminine trait, when it can often be neither. 'Tis all I wanted to word vomit.
This video really put Arcane on my radar to watch, and I really appreciate that (given, I paused halfway through the video to go watch it first). Thank, This show is absolutely fantastic and it's as you say, the characters are one of, if not the primary appeal to such a great show in every other way already! Can't wait to see everything get expanded upon in the next season.
The way you point out everything that is great in this show, and wrong in most of modern stuff made with less care is just incredibly insightfull. Enjoyed it a lot, keep itt up mate
Ah, I'm glad this is back up! I got worried when I didn't see it in my feed. Glad it wasn't UA-cam pulling some shenanigans! I must say, as a fellow nerdy Catholic who also has respect for good writing, wherever that may be found, but also likes based takes on the current industry, I am pleased with your work, sir! It's not much, but you've earned a subscriber! :)
I'm really glad that Arcane exists as a shining beacon of what good writing can do in the modern age. To all those Karen-like writers and producers who attack their target audiences for not liking their shitty stories, this is the level you should be writing at. These are the characters we pay to see more of. Arcane is better than every single streaming show made for Disney+ put together. I mean Andor was pretty good but Arcane still tops it. Kind of incredible that even within the animated style, Arcane's writing holds it up and demands to be taken seriously.
Oh, vi beats men twice her size (and women) but she actually uses force multipliers and tactics to do it. (though it's like she has the reaction time of a fly, but that's awesome)
One of things I noticed about Vi is that she’s not a great fighter because she’s physically stronger than others. She’s a female, who usually lack raw physical power. Instead… she’s just really stubborn and willing take a lot of pain in order to win. She still has her limits, but those prove to be much higher than her opponents generally expect.
Most importantly she has skills. Most of the people are either dependent on there physique in a fight or dependent on there weapons to make up what they lack in skill. Vi is a great boxer without weapons she can still hold her own really well that what carry's her far and we see how she got it so it not some power giving to her or she was born with but instead trained. That makes vi better than majority of other female lead she worked for what she has.
I can’t help but think about the Silco quote and applying it to Vi instead: “Power is not something you are born with, or something you are given. No, real power comes to those who will do absolutely anything to get it” (Also, people often assume that a biological female simply “can’t” do anything a male can physically. It’s not true. Just because it’s an average weakness doesn’t mean it applies to everyone. There’s women I am actively terrified of because I know they could likely kill me without a weapon)
TBH I dont even use the term “strong female lead” anymore because it was born from an era of media when that sort of thing was very rare. Not only are there far more examples of fictional women being strong/tough now, but that alone isn’t their only defining characteristic, which is far more representative of real life. Arcane demonstrates this beautifully by featuring several women who can kick ass and are strong willed, yet each is still very unique from each other.
Vi is not only a great written female character but a well written queer character as well. Her sexuality doesn't explicitly define her character and she isn't hypersexualized for liking women either. She doesn't follow the stereotypes media typically puts on lgbt characters and they do it in a way that's good representation while also not hindering on the story in any way. I'd love to know what you think of Caitlyn as well as she's almost the complete opposite of Vi but is still a fantastic female character
That’s because who you feel attracted to is not important for a character. Nobody gives a fuck about that. It comes out as forced when it’s pandering and just checking a box. Vi is Vi. Who she likes is way less important than who she is as a person. Current media thinks saying someone is queer means anything. It’s not an identity and you’re fucked if you MAKE it your identity.
It’s so unimportant that the second largest political group in the most powerful country in the world marks them as things to be removed from society. Yeah, no one cares, mmhmm.
All female characters from Arcane are strong, and are well written as female. Even the big muscly general Medarda would not work as male. Arcane is truly a masterpiece of character writing.
yes she would, but i dont think she being female takes anything from the character, but everything she transmits is just the noxus values, strenght above all. all noxus characters carrie noxus flag above their head maybe is because we dont have that many in the series yet, but once we get more i will become aparent
@@marcodxd3631 if Medarda was a male Noxian, she wouldn't have the same relationship with Mel. The character would not be as good. The fact that she's female like Mel makes their clash of philosophy more interesting. A father teaching his daughter to rule with violence and fear is just a man trying turn his daughter into a son, but a mother doing so is something else.
@@rustygear447 a father teaching a daughter to rule with violece and fear can be a father protecting her from the world that will be rutless towards her, its a fkd up kinda love but love nontheless , its only turning his daugther in to a son if thats how the writer choose to make it, a father can teach a dauther to be brutal without asking her to be less of a woman, we just lack this in fiction
@@rustygear447But violence and warrior mentality doesn't turn anyone into a man, doesn't make sense (there are proofs or societies where women were hunters, warriors and providers just as men, or the ones who fitted that rol meanwhile men took care of the children) , and even less in a world where those traits asociated with men and women can be whatever the creator wants. It would have been perfectly fine because fiction doesn't hace to respect our gender biases. In fact, Caitlin's father is the person who teaches her feminine traits, her mother is the person who has an stoic and powerful figure traits wrongly associated only to men.
This is probably THE best video essay character analysis I've ever watched on UA-cam. I've watched A LOT of video essays lol. You brought so many great perspectives. Great job man.
YAS! Absolutely! "Strong women" are not the problem - sh**ty writing is! I absolutely adore how Vi fit ALL the requirements for nowadays typical "strong female characters" to a haircut, yet, she thrive in every ways! She is strong, gruff, moody and stubborn yet it all explained by the setting she lives in. Also, she is not treating male characters like a crap. >_> Jesus Christ for that alone I'm ready to worship Arcane, show where male characters are not stupid and meek and treated like dirt by female characters, what a novice move nowadays! I adore all that father/daughter dynamics between Vi and Vander and Jinx and Silco, it's so cute and wholesome! Even though Jinx is my absolute favorite, I really love Vi (and Sevika, she just grows on me XD ) Arcane is absolutely amazingly awesome with handling it's female characters! Really made you think it's not that complicated to write decent female characters, but, alas, Arcane is rarity, and not a norm. Y_Y Thank you for such amazing video! Vi sure need more love and recognition for her awesomeness!
I was in the middle of finally getting around to watching Arcane when you posted this video. I can't tell you how happy I am that this was here for me to watch basically the same day I finished.
@@master_samwise Oh that's exactly why I waited! I took more and more careful pains to avoid spoilering myself as the second and third wave of enthusiasts never turned to disagreeing with the first. As toxic as the game's fandom legendarily is, the cartoon has unified them and new converts in a way I wish could happen with more franchises. That said, I knew enough about the lore to understand that there was no saving Powder. And to me that just highlights the tragedy even further because you know all these efforts are doomed.
Artists are based in France (I'm pretty sure it's still an international team, there are like 200 of them only in the studio). Showrunners and screenwriters are quite American. Like, for example, executive story editor Amanda Overton, who's responsible for the 5th episode (there's a lot of VI in it) and lots of the important bits here and there (like the final Jinx short heartbreaking monologue). P.S. I really hope she'll be writing the next season. Just found out she wrote for the Severance series, that's not a coincidence.
Yeah, the writers are Americans. Just good ones, and they love the source material. But, it also shows trough that the show was animated in France. As a southern European myself, there were so many tidbits. How the characters are much closer physically when they speak, and also reach and touch each other a lot (in a good way). How they hug another character when they are in distress (I can't count the number of times I've shouted to an American film "just give the poor thing a HUG"). The structure of the city of Zaun could be lifted from the outskirts of Paris and, of course, the parkour. You can definitely tell.
You're right. I wouldn't be friends with Vi in real life but I believe wholeheartedly that she acts tough to survive and she's really fighting for others. That's something I don't get from a lot of modern female protagonists. It's why I like so many of the female Avatars too. Kyoshi, Yangchen and Korra. I highly recommend the books about the first two if you're interested. I know we have a lot of Avatar fans here.
Love the analysis of a show I rlly love. Vi is a great character and is how to write a strong female character. I feel like the biggest factor is they show her struggling and getting full on punched. It hammers home how hard she has it better than simply saying it. It also contradictorily makes her look tougher and more impressive, something most shows with ‘strong’ female leads don’t do as they want the female lead shown get hurt or struggling
This is the eighth video in my playlist of the most important videos I have watched. Besides being a very well put together video essay, when I added it to the playlist it was due to it reminding me of when I hurt someone close to me. This video inspired the thought of *I don't want to be a bad person.* I want to be a positive influence on everything around me. The reminder that I can and have caused hurt compelled me to steel my resolve and be cautious. The thing that I said could only have negatively impacted who it was said to while boosting my own ego. I won't forget the look in their eyes. I won't forget the crack in their voice. I don't want to make that happen ever again. 10:42
Im doing a shoutout for a recent proper strong female lead..ish. camina drummer from the expanse! Would 100% join her crew and fight by her side. She is true beltalowda!
When people say that, "You just don't like modern strong female leads", I have been repeatedly pointing to Arcane. It was an amazing series full of amazing women who fit the bill as "Strong female leads", but not only that it was just has amazingly strong character development all around.
Wow. Great video. I've decided to start watching Arcane. Also, I had a sneaking suspicion you were Catholic based on your previous videos. That's totally epic.
I get stuck on tv shows, and this is one of them. There are like four instances of plot armor, othet than that, it seems flawless. Hyperbole, maybe, but its better than anything ive seen in years.
@gaia7240 Caitlin survives multiple explosions while other people who are right next to her die. During the assault on the shimmer plant, the shimmer suit guys insta kill regular enforcers, but Jayce and Vi are able to survive them by being main characters. Those are the big ones. I haven't watched it in a while. Don't get me wrong, I love this show. It's incredible. I hope the next season has as few flaws as the first!
I feel like people heard, "Write your woman like you would a man and flip the gender," and misunderstood the reason why that would work. It isn't the gender norms that need to be defied, it's the trappings imposed by those expectations. The real meaning behind that sentiment is not to make you woman protagonist manly, it's to let women have motivations, thoughts, personality traits, and themes that extended beyond the very basic roles typically assigned to them. Let your female protagonist go on a hero's journey without focusing the plot entirely on romance. By all means, add some in if you want. But the weight of the journey has more impact if saving the world isn't second fiddle to which orbiting dude has a better six pack or whatever. Women in stories traditionally get to have limited roles and personalities. They get to be mothers, healers, caretakers, damsels, or dead in a fridge. If they are action heroes, their stories somehow still orbit around the men in their lives. If they are leaders, it's usually a dystopian and they're actually the big baddie and comically evil or inept. If they are the love interest, they've got nothing going on beyond that. If they're strong, they are flawless and boring. So when people say write women like you would men, what is often lost is, "Write women with depth and interesting motivations, and let their actions shape the story." Arcane gets that right on so nany levels and for so many characters, it honestly boggles my mind. Absolute peak character writing, with every single one of them, not just Vi. The characters respond realistically to their world and their own internal battles both, regardless of gender, and it is compelling even if you disagree with them personally. Watching giant puppy, Jayce, lose his way from his initial goal to improve the lives of everyone feels as natural as it is tragic. He's a strong dude, who nonetheless sacrifices his convictions to the pressure of politics, inevitably sacrificing the well-beings of the underdogs in the short term for a perceived long term greater good. It's a great way to show weakness in a strong character. Even Caitlyn feels poignant, wanting to be valued on her own merits rather than her privilege and legacy, and struggling to do so because the world is not a meritocracy. She wants to believe she judges fairly and without bias, and has to confront her implicit biases by working with Vi, someone who should only be imprisoned because she deserved it if the world was fair, but reality isn't fair. The story isn't unkind to her, though, and her skills as a detective are genuine. She is overall mostly comfortable in her life and doesn't want to upend that necessarily, but she's forced to confront the full extent of how unjust the world really is, and decide how much of her comfort and ambitions she's willing to give up in order to achieve the fair and just world she allegedly wants. It's good. Her story hits on sexism, privilege, and bigotry without feeling preachy, and while I initially doubted her need to be in the story, I was sold on her role in the end. I am excited to see where she goes in the end. By that, I mean I know she will be the sheriff. I want to know what that means, though. It's so good. Ugh.
Arcane is an amazing show. Something uniqe is that it was acceptable for translation in my country that usually are just for children oriented shows. But it did´t feel like they kiddyfied it, they keept the harsh brutal use of everyword even a bit more. And yeah to your point love this characters, totally flawed, not overcoming thier shortcomings in a episode or two, things just gose to hell but it´s still a engaging story full of hope.
u know, i think the amount of female characters that have this no empathy, not caring about anyone or any emotions, being always right and perfect and being almost unstoppable is a response to the long list of male characters exactly like that throughout media. And since female characters are always more harshly judged, theres so much backlash. But what we need is human characters. Your video encapsulates this perfectly and why Arcane is the perfect piece of media. Everyone is human and complex.
btw, part of the reason that vi left with Cait is because jinx wanted her to leave in that moment; jinx does a little head gesture, which basically tells vi to leave at that time. so vi, with tears in her eyes, does so. she wasn't giving up on her; far from that, actually. right when she tries to go back for jinx, after getting Caitlyn to safety, silco and the group of enforcers stop her. she clearly wants to go back but once again, is prevented from doing so.
Regarding your request in the end: I wonder if you've read Leigh Bardugo's books? I read the Six of Crows duology, and, while the author is obviously progressive and I don't appreciate all the simping for Russian culture (no hate, just a fact), I really like what she did with the Inej Ghafa's character. It's YA and the language sometimes feels a bit juvenile (but I'm an adult, so dugh) still I love that teenagers have an example of a compassionate, caring girl also being a badass and having her own hero journey. I wish there was more stuff like this in media targeted at kids.
One point I would disagree with is at Mark 20:00, al fictions writes the society they know or impart model, the saying Sci-fi isn't about the future but the present through the lens of the future has stood true for decades for a reason. Most "strong female leads" are YA novel novel protagonists outs side of YA novels. Before March 2012, how many of these "Strong female characters" were in pop fiction? March 2012 in when hunger games debuted in theaters. There have been entire book series with females leads from Anita Blake, Kim Harrisons Hollows series (with the witch Rachel Morgan), Mercy Thompson , most of Ann McCaffrys books. Whole multi volume series than never got an adaptation, all which have settings from modern (at the time) to space opera, to fantasy. I mean the net is a buzz with Baulders gate 3, But Dragonlance and Forgotten realms often have ensemble casts with female co-leades. Pathfinder has a 7 volumes of trade paperback comics with enable casts.
Hollywood doesn't understand why people enjoy the characters in their stories in the first place if they don't get why people hate the "strong, independent women" they write in their movies. For as long as story telling has been around for, people have liked characters because they can relate to them. They build connections to the character not because they punch good or they shove the middle finger up at the patriarchy every second but from their flaws and struggles. It's something we as humans feel because we too have made these same mistakes before and seeing someone fight, and work, and struggle to overcome those problems in the end is fulfilling. The parts that make these characters feel real is what people attach to, not how great they can swing a weapon or how perfect they are. That's what writers in Hollywood fail to do on several occasions and as a result, not only does their characters fall through but also their plot, their worldbuilding and their story entirely.
Cool video Samwise. Since you mentioned that the show would be different if Vi and Jinx were male would you consider comparing Arcane to the anime Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood which has two brothers as the main characters?
Have you ever seen Sharp Objects? It is a book by Gillian Flynn (Gone Girl) that was turned into an HBO series. It’s overall amazing but I’d love to see your analysis on Camille.
Over the years I have created an anthology of short stories set in a world with a very conservative and at times sadistic society-think Francoist Spain crossed with ancient Israel. I can relate to wanting to create characters that don’t align with modern values. But it seems like that is what writing is supposed to be for: to explore a world that maybe doesn’t align with ours, and see how characters live inside it. In short, you’re closing statement really spoke to me.
Your analysis is spot-on. Generous, yet incisive, and aptly descriptive of what works about Arcane's writing and storytelling. Really enjoyed this. I see a lot of film/TV criticism, and far too many dumb yet telling comments sections, on this topic. And people love to put the lion's share of responsibility on Hollywood writers and studio execs for giving us one-dimensional female characters or plying the "girl boss" trope; and some people are also quick to lambast actors and writers who respond (in understandable defensiveness) to the loudest, most-hamfisted of these criticisms. Often those same actors and writers are far too quick to dismiss all criticism in this vein, characterizing it as unthoughtful and anti-feminist, whether intended or no. (It doesn't help the situation...) All that said, even if the lion's share of responsibility does lie with artists and executives, I wonder how much of a role audiences play in these decisions behind closed doors. Audiences aren't stupid, and don't appreciate being treated like they are stupid; but they're also unwilling to entertain the notion that they might be part of a mob (for good or for ill, intended or no). The world has, and is, changing; attitudes rebalance, update, or adjust to new social norms. And we can't discount the effect, sometimes chilling, that the #MeToo Movement had on cinema--even if much of its positive effects cannot be judged or ascertained by the public, outside of the industry itself. I hazard to suggest that audiences are responsible for flat, boring, or unchanging women almost as much as writers or studio execs are. And that consistently laying the blame on writers and studios, without a shred of awareness of our own culpability, is intellectually lazy and will only continue the trend. Vi will continue to be an outlier.
Full agree on every point made, but I will add a caveat/insight that might have been missed. Protagonists that primarily exist for themselves, and not for anyone else, may seem shallow if you were never socialized into obligated, everyday self-sacrifice. And yeah, many portrayals of such characters aren't well done and are very unlikeble and not compelling at all; the characters mentioned visually (2020 mulan, carol danvers, etc) kinda suck lol (Rey's not as bad bc she has 3 movies for them to try to get the personality right, not just 1). But a character whose development journey is from self-effacing to assertive, evem borderline self-centered -- someone who won't put aside their own boundaries or self-respect, evem when their family, friends, and loved ones expect them to -- can resonate deeply with people who have had to make that same journey. And there is a real social pressure in MANY cultures that teenaged girls internalize: I must be kind; I must think of others; I must be sensitive to other's opinions and never offend anyone; I must be the kind, skinny, and innocent Ariel/Rapunzel/Snow White, and I must never be the self-centered, older, confident Ursula/mother Gothel/evil queen. So a lot of women in their 20s and 30s have to relearn how to self-prioritize and assert basic boundaries. Being self-prioritized can read as selfish/self-centered, or shallow, for audiences who never had to relearn how to do that. And obvs there are boys who had to relearn that, and girls who are selfish from the get go lol. But, as a general rule of thumb, MOSTLY society pressures boys into being self-reliant and to chase success, and pressures girls into being self-effacing and to help other people achieve their success. This kind of character resonates because, as you said, it's an underdog narrative -- self-sacrificng to self-prioritizing! But god Disney does NOT know how to do it well and yet is determined to do it poorly over and over and over 🙄🙄. Moana does it okay.
Not just girl characters but this show has tons of differing world views and has the balls to show the faults in all of them. There is no perfect answer.
It's a show that really encapsulates issues in our world in a creative and satisfying way. We can see how the struggles and issues in Piltover/Zaun apply to our world, but they're not shoved in without context.
@master_samwise They are well written and given space to breath. So many portrayed ideologies play those in the wrong as "villians" and the main character's ideology as "good". This show has the guts and writing skill to show faults in characters and ideology. As you have said before the writing is overwhelmingly the problem
The "girlboss" tends to be an appropriation of the 80's edgy male action badass archetype. But without the self-awareness that to make that character work, you need them to be broken on the inside.
Yup, and the 80s action heroes were just that. They weren't held up as amazing examples of male empowerment. They were just dumb action heroes, and no one made a fuss about it.
@@master_samwiseyes they did, everyone liked terminator and Rocky. But the problem is not the caracter but the tone. Those characters work because in action films, histories and characters are simple and one dimensional, and mary sues work the same way in those stories because everything is over the top. But no one can expect a very complex character in a superhero movie, because the history is one dimentional, Captain America (even if the plot it is complicated) stays in the same archetype and works and Captain Marvel and She Hulk work even if they can be unlikable as people because the tone is one dimensional and superheroes are propaganda and good vs evil. Of course in a complex story, complex characters are required, but you can't expect a shakesperian character in a simple movie or a simple character in a costumbrist history without anykind of subversion.
Something I really love about Vi is that despite being a stong female protagonist her strongest character traits are also her flaws. She’s stong willed, but she’s also so stubborn that it ends up destroying most of her relationship with Powder. She refuses to compromise on anything or with anyone, even her own sister. She learns fast and she’s skilled, but she also ends up leaving her friends (Caitlyn, Milo & Claggor) in the dust behind her in her pursuit of what she wants. The hallmark of a well written character is that their strengths are mirrored by their flaws and Vi does that perfectly.
This video made me realize that Vi punching Powder and Luke raising his lightsaber to kill the sleeping Ben... are essentially trying to achieve the same thing for the arcs of the characters. It would be interesting to see this as a comparison video to explore why the Star Wars scene did not work as well. Beyond angry nerds simply saying "The Luke Skywalker I know would never do something like that.😠"
I personally think it's has to do with the setup and characters head space at the moment . With Luke their was no build-up on why he tried to kill Ben , especially since last time we saw Luke. He had forgiven Vader the genocidal maniac and spared his life , so it breaks the character . In arcane, we see why Vi punches her sister , she was angry at powder for basically killing their family
It’s not very similar other than surface level, Vi hit Powder in a brief moment of rage and grief but she never had the intention of killing her, while Luke is shown literally planning and attempting the murder of someone when we’ve seen none of the context
THANK YOU for saying all this!!! I love your explanation on why Vi wouldn't work as a dude. Also the constant roasts of modern strong female characters 😂😂😂 "It simply lets her be strong." That's how you do it!!!
The Expanse has a pretty broad variety of female characters. Most of them could be called strong characters, but they are all strong in extremely different ways.
I love your point near the end about likeable character vs. likeable person. Some of my favorite characters are literally huge monsters that mess up entire cities or even worlds. Does that mean I want cities and worlds to be destroyed? Would I want them to be real if they would still do these things? Of course not! I just think they're cool looking! lol
What amazing lady in film or TV should be next on my breakdown list?
Firefly has some great ones!
Beatrix Kiddo from Kill Bill
Eowyn
What about some of the wonderful ladies from Agents of Shield? 😁 I'm currently loving Skye and Agent May from that show
pearl (from last years a24 movie by the same name)
If you have to TELL your audience that your character is 'brave, independent and strong' than that character is none of that.
Even if the character IS all of that, you've just treated your audience like a bunch of toddlers and no one likes being talked down to.
@@master_samwise This feels like a statement that needs more context. If your character genuinely is those things, aren't you just discussing the character at that point? Or do you mean in the sense of other characters delivering shoe-horned in praise?
@@jacobd1984I read that as: if the only way you know a character is these things is by someone describing them that way in the story instead of that character just demonstrating these qualities, then they aren't really those things.
Don’t worry. Everyone can tell you’re an InCel right away.
It's mostly that I'm '' telling you so you can't object'' that's really annoying
"You still block with your face..." That one Tough Woman sentence from Ekho tells you yes, Vi is a strong woman. But she is very far from perfect and flawless.
Additional thing of note is that Ekko and the firelights are literally the only ones in the show to care about defense. They swarm like flies, hit, and scatter.
She’s already perfect to me and cait
The lack of defense is an artifact of her training with that device in their hideout. It score on force and moves targets, making her an exceptional striker, but it couldn't do more than perfunctory blows in return, creating a few bad habits for Vi. A few months sparring with a real person should clear that up.
I mean, she wins every fight. Obviously it isn't that big of a deal.
@@frankie3010
She lost against Sevika first and the rematch she almost lost, she got saved by a magic shield she didn't know she had.
Vi’s nurturing and motherly tenderness towards her sister MELTS MY HEART
Until she punches her in the face and leaves her with the dead body of their adoptive father, right?
@@katyushamarikov8819 Fr fr… It still works for the characters and plot, and I can't really complain or stay mad cus she basically spends the rest of her life trying to make up for that one mistake.
You can blame some of it on Powder too technically, but yeaaaah pretty sure everyone was kinda pissed about Vi kinda leaving her sister to die after punching her, due to a non-malicious mistake (despite the horrific cost of said mistake).
Kinda hard to be mad or stay mad at Vi (okay, maybe a little) or Powder, really.
Jinx is more pitiable than hateable for me.
@@katyushamarikov8819 Don't forget the part where she's so obsessed with having things her way and living up to Vander's legend (no matter how many times he tells her that'll cause nothing but trouble and pain) that she insists on raising her sister as a thief and gang member. Or how, after she gets out of prison, she's incapable of seeing Jinx as her own person with trauma and baggage (all of which stems from Jinx's childhood need to impress her sister) and repeatedly refers to Jinx's traumatic memories as if they were in some way positive for her.
Honestly, Vi's kind of a terrible, selfish person, and an even worse sister. She raised an antisocial terrorist and is all 'surprised pikachu face' when Jinx chooses the version of herself that her adoptive father loved and accepted, trauma and all, over desperate, clingy child her sister blamed for all of their pain and hardship. Hell, if Vi hadn't insisted on robbing Jace's lab/apartment in the first place to prove how tough and resourceful she is, her little adoptive family would still be alive and her sister wouldn't be a villain suffering from PTSD.
Vi only gets a pass from the audience because they identify with her and don't question her morals or judgment too closely.
@@chrisporter4993wow you sound insane
@@lotus2001 Thanks for your vapid input with nothing to back it up. I'll be sure to take that to heart.
I don't think it can be overstated how crucial Vi's relationship with Vander is when it comes to establishing her as a likeable character who we want to root for. In my opinion, the single main problem with the typical Hollywood girlboss is that they never have a mentor, someone who they learned from before they were capable enough to fight their own battles. Because...for these characters, there never WAS a "before". They were ALWAYS strong, always capable, always had the power within themselves and the only obstacle that's ever been in front of them is the doubt and persecution heaped on them by others. That's the whole point of the flashbacks to young Carol Danvers, or the character of young Leia in whatever garbage Disney+ show that was.
But none of this is true of Vi, and we see that through her interaction with Vander. Sure, when she's out on the street with her ragtag band of kids, she's scrappy, tough, and resourceful. She's in charge. But then we see her with Vander, and the roles are reversed. She's not in charge any more, because she's a kid, and he is for all intents and purposes her father. She has conflict with him, but when push comes to shove she trusts him with her whole heart to protect her and their family. She learns from him, because that's what parents are for. It's implied beyond any doubt (without ever needing to be said outright, bravo writers) that Vander taught Vi how to fight, but more importantly than this, he mentors her in more nuanced ways. One conversation between them establishes their entire relationship, that at one point in the past he must have recognized something of himself in her and has taught her how to be like him because that's the kind of person she wanted to be. (Side note: the fact that they allowed a male character to have this level of positive importance in the development of a female lead is actually like...borderline revolutionary these days.)
And the audience NEEDED that. We needed to watch Vi learn from and rely on someone to see that, yes, she is actually human. She didn't come into the world having all the power and all the answers from the moment of birth. She was shaped in both positive and negative ways by her environment and by the people around her, especially her father. That story has truth to it, it resonates with all of us, so we love it and we love her. Hollywood, take notes.
Spot on! Great point!
Yes!!
Yes!!! Vander’s lessons on leadership and holding yourself to a higher standard were so crucial!
Even in the last episode, when she was loosing the fight, face on the floor, VI reflects on Vander and his memory to keep her will to fight.
I love that you use the Hawkeye show to demonstrate "tell, don't show" when the actress for Kate Bishop also does the voice for both Vi and Spider Gwen.
I thought that was pretty funny too. I generally liked Hawkeye FWIW, and Kate was a pretty good character. It just wasn't exactly a masterclass of storytelling.
@@master_samwise Yeah, I remember mostly liking Hawkeye, I just tend to forget it exists at all.
Personally I don't think the scene was bad. A throwaway line in a conversation is fine, plus it was implied from the start she wanted to be like hawkeye from the first frame. There are far worse culprits of that.
Actors have a lot to do with how a character is perceived but at the end of the day they’re still constrained by what the writers, directors, and producers give them to work with. Hailee Seinfeld is a great actor and the fact that she’s behind both great characters and less-great ones shows that there’s more to it than her acting chops
@@master_samwisei liked Hawkeye too
Vi is literally one of my favorite characters in modern media. She's so inspiring and strong willed, yet grounded, extremely relatable, and earns each and every one of her victories. Not to mention having an awesome design and multifaceted dynamics with a host of other character (which, in my opinion, is the the hallmark of a fantastic character).
There will always be one scene that I believe doesn't make sense whatsoever in Arcane. And that's Vi/Jayce against the chemguards in episode... I think it's 8?
These things were portrayed as superhuman monsters capable of oneshotting police men. Sure, Vi and Jayce are capable fighters and they have powerful tools at their disposal, but it still doesn't change the fact that they were fighting beings that were physically vastly superior to them and they were somehow demolishing them 2v15. That's the one shitty instance I can think off in Arcane.
I don't know if I'd argue that Vi is inspiring. Vi is so single-minded and self-centered that she raises her kid sister to be a thief, gang member, and terrorist, all because she idolizes the worst decisions their adoptive father figure made in his life. She encourages her sister, who's barely a teenager, to risk her life on dangerous jobs despite having no real means of defending herself, all so that Vi can prove she's the next big thing in Zaun and make Vander proud, no matter how often he tells her to stop putting her family's lives at risk over her own ego.
Vi is superficially strong, in that she can punch her way through any situation and keeps going no matter how hard she gets beat down. But that's also the only way she knows how to deal with any problem, and lacks anything resembling wisdom or empathy. She had years in prison to think about what the root cause of the events leading up to Vander's death was, and it never once occurs to her that she encouraged Powder to build bombs, to take unnecessary risks to impress her big sister, and to be involved in their little gang no matter how obvious it was that it was a terrible idea. She's completely incapable of recognizing who Powder and Jinx are as people, and can only view Jinx's exceptionally traumatic and formative experiences through the lens of her own perception. She doesn't get for even a second that the deaths of their family broke Jinx; that her memories of the others torment her.
Ultimately, if Vi had listened to Vander even once and been an empathetic, responsible leader, the events of the show would never have taken place. Instead she was committed only to her own ego and self-righteous need to to get back at Piltover for the death of her parents, and it cost Jinx her childhood, her innocence, and her identity.
@@markopusic8258you forget that they were using newly made hex tech weaponry, which has been shown to have as much of a devastating effect as shimmer
@@lotus2001 Powerful tools yes, and the canon form of Jayce's Hextech hammer is undeniably the strongest asset they had, but these tools don't invalidate the physical limitations of their bodies.
Yes, I will accept that Vi can throw super punches and that Jayce's hammer can vaporise things out of existence, but these cannot effectively defend them from unnatural speed and force capable of tearing apart a grown man in an instant... Especially when they're this outnumbered. Vi took hits in that fight should have been lethal several times over, her body isn't made of steel.
@@chrisporter4993 insanity right here folks
I love how in her first fight, Vi was on the receiving end of the “slo-mo punch” face. You know the one, where the character’s face gets punched, and it’s unflattering, and sometimes there’s saliva flying out of their mouth. And Vi gets up and keeps on fighting, and eventually wins through superior technique.
I’ve found that quite a few modern female action leads tend to win their fights right off the bat, and if they do get hurt then it’s not nearly as visible. Their hair and makeup are perfect, or at least presentable, they’re not bruised or scraped or even sweaty, particularly on the face. And if such a character ever suffers a facial injury, it’s always a strategically placed cut that makes her look pretty. Her injuries are literally used as makeup.
I’m a woman who’s practiced MMA, and Vi is one of my favorite characters of all time. Her determination, her leadership, her pragmatism, her genuine love and protectiveness for her family, the way she cares for Powder but still encourages her to push herself and live up to her potential. Vi is amazing. Arcane is amazing.
Modern Hollywood has all the performative values but preaches old school beauty standards like they’re gospel.
@@AlexMunz-bg3bc The same chains as always, except now their price tag says “PROGRESSIVE™️”. The successful commercialization of legitimate progress will always amaze me.
I definitely love how the women in this show can take a punch and give one right back.
I've heard it said several times - Arcane does a great job of showing us women beating the shit out of other women. And not in the way it usually goes, where all the parties look graceful. I don't remember if I've ever seen a female character spitting out a tooth after getting in a fight before, but Arcane does it, and it makes the fight feel more real and the character look more badass.
Yes! I love that Arcane felt like a world that truly had no sexism (by the creators own efforts), and it’s awesome. It gives women just as many unsexy moments as men. It gives men just as many sexy moments as women. There are physically powerful masc women (Vi), and there are indirectly powerful fem women. (Mel) There’s physically powerful masc men (Jayce), and there are indirectly powerful fem men. (Silco. Sure he’s not super fem in the traditional sense, but he uses makeup and his words to appeal to and persuade people.) We truly get to see a full spectrum of expression, and it’s great! More of modern media needs to get over its fear of being daring. Variety makes things better, not worse.
I also believed the monster comment Vi was talking about herself. That her striking her sister out of anger has forever tainted her image of herself. The line reads “Then a real monster came along, and I ran away” Silco showed up after Vi ran away. She was the monster
Oh good theory!
Maybe Jinx was the monster she was refrencing.
definitly not. it's quite obvious that she meant silco there. She failed to rescue powder from silco. But all the jinx-silco-lovers always come up with the theory that vi might see herself as the monster (it seems like those people see vi as the monster even though the video you just watched explained perfectly that while vi was wrong in punching powder, it was a totally understandable reaction). Watch the show again. VI hates silco. In her eyes, he is responsible for this.
@@tvolz9749 There's nothing understandable about assaulting a family member -- especially a smaller one, out of anger. Vi knows she is the core reason behind all of the events.
It was her heist into Piltover. It was her carelessness that gets them caught. It was her attempt to "Make things right" that got Vander locked up in the first place. It was her decision over and over and over that led to the groundwork for Jinx to exist.
And the final blow was her hitting powder and yelling at her, abusing her greatest fears, then running away. Vi recognizes that in that moment. She is the monster. She may hate Silco, but she also very clearly regrets her decisions and hates herself. Silco is just Silco. Vi was the monster hiding under Powders bed just waiting to use her fears against her.
Intentional or not. Vi astutely recognizes she was the monster in that moment. The show leaves it ambiguous enough to generate conversation and interest as each person will interpret it slightly different, and flock to speak about it.
@@HauntingSpectre ah, so silco isnt responsible for bringing the whole family in a dire situation? So you will just forget that 1. Vi is a child herself and that 2. She just lost everyone and that can kinda mess you up?
All those silco lovers will always say, that silco isnt the true monster, but vi is. Just because they dont want to see, that silco just murdered people and kidnapped people and abused people. But sure. Vi is the monster here, because she did hit her sister after her sister killed everyone else, vi loved.
Ofc Vi thinks she is responsible. But she will always feel like that because vander told her so. The problem is: can a child carry such a burden? Would you think, a child can carry this burden? Did you never get angry with family members in your whole life? People just tend to forget that vi is a person too...and a child. Who lost just as much as powder did.
I understand the love for Jinx. She's a great character. But to me, Vi was absolutely the heart of the show. And I definitely related to her character and story arc the most.
Vi arc was nice! But for me it was jayce arc that i related and also liked the most😁
@@momokillerfilda funny thing for me it was the same even though I find Vi's arc not only nice but insanly good. But I relate more with jayces story. Cuz I am a guy who went to a school with a hard focus on natural science and never really had a physical fight after the age of 12 or so. And I also had a very good friend in school with whom I had a huge fight around the 11th class and like 3 years of no contact after that.
Vi is amazing for sure but Cait has also a good loving heart..I’m not sure which one is number 1 lol they both show it in different ways and this is also one of the things they love most about each other and ime too
I love vi and jinx, *but I relate to viktor the most lol*
Vi is the character that generates the most rejection for me. She gets stuck in a two-day relationship with a fair-skinned girl with blue hair, towards whom she assumes a protective role (a tricky situation given all these similarities with her younger sister and their relationship). But, in addition, the girl in question, Catelyn, turns out to be a high-class enforcer, none other than the daughter of a counselor. It's like she directly represents the two things that led to the murder of her parents: the decisions of the Piltover council and the executive hand of its police forces.
Furthermore, she idolizes Vander, a guy who, while appearing decent, if we analyze his story, after leading Zaun to rebellion, backed out and betrayed many of his people in the cruelest way (like stabbing Silco). However, he also reached an agreement with Piltover's police for peace, which continued a general situation of misery and inequality in Zaun that affected him to a lesser extent because it allowed him to have his place and maintain his dealings to survive and also act as a boss in the underground city. In short, he abandoned his revolution but managed not to come out too badly and maintained his status with a criminal life of theft and smuggling while the city seemingly continued to bleed, an opportunistic traitor who claims to prefer peace when it is evident that peace as such does not exist for most of Zaun.
To make matters worse, in Chapter 8 (Water and Oil) when they present themselves to the council, Catelyn, respectfully and prudently, does not provide information about Jinx, as she knows she is Vi's sister. But it is Vi herself who betrays her sister to the council and points her out as the main perpetrator of the attacks, that is, SHE SNITCHES ON HER SISTER, the one she claims to protect above all, conditioning the entire unfortunate outcome of the plot because Jayce will demand that Silco hand over Jinx in the future.
Not satisfied with the council's decision to negotiate with Silco and proclaiming without any arguments that Silco would never agree to negotiate (which we know is a lie because Silco's main motivation for terrorism is to coerce the Piltover government to listen to his conditions, as Silco is a guy who always has clear intentions, and his plans are only destabilized by his paternal feelings towards Jinx), she shouts furiously at them, completely driven by her resentment towards Silco and never thinking about what is best for Zaun and its people. Later, she persuades Jayce to take direct action against Silco, and when things go awry after the fight and Jayce is horrified by causing the death of a child, Vi remains impassive and, despite condemning Silco for his cruelty, acts in the same way and delivers a speech of moral relativism that only serves to justify her personal war against Silco and his terrorist organization, once again neglecting the needs of Zaun, all this after joining the same repressive forces that act against the population of the underground city and killed her parents.
Ultimately, during the macabre dinner in Chapter 9, she shouts at Jinx the names of Mylo, Vander, and Claggor, completely destabilizing her, something quite obvious given that Jinx is completely traumatized by having caused the death of these people who basically constituted her family, something more than misguided, but cruel, stupid. Certainly, Jinx is not wrong when she says that she is the one who created the monster.
Finally, this is in addition to what is narrated in Arcane. If we look at League of Legends, Vi is basically an authoritarian enforcer who believes she is above the law, a vigilante who fights on the side of Piltover. I can't think of a worse traitor to her people and her class.
UA-cam has just been slaughtering video essays recently. This is the third reupload I've seen in the past week.
This was my problem lol. Dum dum editing issue.
One thing I love about Vi is her relationship with Cait. Initially, it's purely transactional, but it grows into something so beautiful. Two people, who come from two completely different lives, finding love in one another is just the best.
In Legends of Runeterra (League of Legends card game) one character from Zaun says phrase, that in my opinion perfectly explains Vi's character: "Tough places bring tough people".Vi is strong and tough because she has to be in order to survive. She is the product of environment, she grew up in. In different circumstances she would probably be much softer. But you have to be tough to survive in the Undercity, and that's why Powder constantly gets berated by Mylo - she is not tough enough.
That is a great point!
Empathy in tough female characters pretty much sums it up. People tend to look up to empathetic characters. Like yeah they can kick a** but that doesn’t mean they can’t show love and compassion towards others ya know. Definitely what Hollywood gets wrong, Hollywood is like let’s bash others and claim to be tough, when really those characters are weak minded, would actually make great writing for villainous character 😂 because of how unlikeable the traits are.
+ every strong character needs someone to learn from. Yes you can teach yourself alot, but you will only get to a certain point alone. Either a mentor or a training partner are crucial.
Yeah, when I think of empathetic strong characters, my first thought goes to Katara from Avatar the Last Airbender.
The best part of Arcane's writing is subtly and the willingness to show, not tell. Characters should be strong, but not flawless. And emotions like empathy shouldn't be considered a weakness.
I rewatched Arcane recently and I swear that I notice something new that I didn't notice before every time I do so. It still blows my mind that a show this good even exists, especially in this era of generally shoddy storytelling and lazy writing.
Arcane is like the gift that keeps on giving 😂
I doubt this would even be considered a "Hot Take" but here is the disclaimer anyways.
The characters in Arcane are written so well that even if they didn't come from a famous or popular IP the world would still have loved the show. Yeah it helped that the IP got a large portion of the initial audience but I think this show would have blown up in popularity on the basis of it being a good story alone.
I agree. I’ve never played LoL in my life, but I loved it. I know people who never play video games who love it. Being tied to an existing IP probably helped, and basically everything is now, but I’m okay with that if the production level is this high.
As someone who played league from the beginning, everyone knew Riot's music/animation teams were great, but even Arcane blew everyone's expectations.
I remember being so hesitant to watch this, and now I can't stop recommending it to my friends to watch lol
OMG Same! Lol is so toxic, but Arcane is a MASRETPIECE!
that last part about the politics, Arcane is very political and has tons of paralles to real life politics, but its because its exploring our politics indirectly and not just taking politics from our world and just dumping it unaltered into the story.
And it's not trying to preach or control our beliefs. Merely showing the reality like a documentary
I agree with almost everything you said, but I can’t agree that Vi and Jinx wouldn't be as close if they didn’t share a gender because that's just not the case. I know a lot of people who have a brother and a sister and are equality close to both of them, me included.
I agree, Nier and Yonah from Nier: Replicant are a great example of this. And I mean both Nier's and Yonahs. (If you know, you know, if not, play the game.)
Though I would also have to disagree with his you should hate and shouldn't resonate with anti-hero comment as well. I can not hate, and also quite resonate, with the Punisher, John Wick, and Red Hood (Jason Todd).
I think it’s because being tough and stoic is not all Vi is. Yeah she has a tough exterior but given what Vi went through losing her parents, father figure and spending years wrongfully in prison, that would fuck anyone up. When you’ve been burned as many times as we’ve seen Vi get burned, you become a different and colder person.
But the writers are smart enough to make her funny and still vulnerable and caring underneath it all, as well as blinded by her love for Powder rather than trying to embrace Jinx.
All of the women in Arcane are impeccably written.
14:30 I interpreted "the monster" as both Silco and more importantly Vi herself because Vander had warned her about relying on violence to solve problems/obstacles.
I can see that.
Ahh times fighter.., vi is truly a fascinating one especially when the string she pull are all for her family , she is a true favorite with the no in-between of being an almost " mother-figure" or daughter
Arcane is a wonderful story shockingly from LoL
Vi wants to be the protective mother but also the encouraging sister and she really struggles with that. It’s not delved into a lot but it’s still very important for her character.
@@master_samwise
A hard balance to find as an older sister for sure. You can see this dynamic play out in other great works of fiction. Til We Have Faces is another great example.
I said in the first upload but it's crazy how iconic her character has become with just one season! I love everything about her character like everything from dynamics to the voice acting. And the fact that she's just so cool.
Isn't it nice to have a cool girl character who doesn't annoy the hell out of you for a change.
I will never stop being astounded at how amazingly Arcane handled their female characters considering what the source material was
They honestly made them better and I love it
Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever been so absolutely transfixed by a fictional character like I am with Vi. I never get to see a character that’s so imperfectly perfect, and even if I wasn’t also immensely attracted to her, I’d still have trouble not admiring her because she’s just that interesting and likable. And the way she cares for her family just makes my heart melt every damn time 😭
I feel like in any other modern story Vander and his sons would've been either misoginistic or overprotective and essentially useless. But Arcane shows us how much they mean to Vi, and their loss is a tragedy that takes a toll on her, not some character building moment that allows her to finally discover her True Potential. That fleshes her out even more and makes us feel for her while not taking away from her strength. That really shouldn't be this rare in media.
I love that Vi and Vander disagreed but a I still totally trusted Vander. It’s almost a shame his story ended so soon because their relationship was really great to see.
@@master_samwise I actually kinda expected him to be killed off at the very beginning as it often happens to mentors. My expectations weren't very high for sure:)
@@master_samwise what do you know about the situation of Uighur in China? Because serie's producer, Riot games, is subsidiaries of Tencent , a Chinese company?
But good video
Vi is an amazing character, she's so wonderfully (and sometimes heartbreakingly) human. Honestly, Arcane is just a masterclass on so many things: character, animation, music -chef's kiss-
Great video, really liked how you pointed out the uniquely female traits of her character too. Male and female characters are written differently and Vi is my current go to example of how to do it well!
Completely agree!!
They are actually not that good at any of things you mentioned.
Vi was written as a man.
@@frankie3010 ... No, she's a woman...
@@frankie3010…huh?
20:50 That’s interesting, because I believe it’s impossible to create a story completely separated from our reality, no matter the setting or plot.
Characters relationships reflect our life experiences, like you said when explaining why vi hurting her sister feels so relatable. The writer’s values influence his story telling, and these values are in part formed by modern politics. That is why modern fiction depicts more women in position of power than stories from the 60s, it has become more common therefore art changes to reflect reality. I don’t think most writer think about it while working either, it’s just an inescapable part of making art, it will always be based on life.
There will always be parts of our reality that seep into the stories we tell, for sure. But HOW those ideas or values are infused really matters. Too often, writers just want to make a point about some issue or current topic and thrust it into the story, because they are so wrapped up in our world that they don't allow the one they are creating to just exist.
Andor, for example, is a political show. The heavy-handed brutality of the Empire is akin to what governments have done and are doing. But the show works that theme in as a believable part of the world. It's earned. Rings of Power, on the other hand, just says "hey let's throw some tidbits about racism and anti-immigration in here" and gives cheap, unearned lines to minor characters that do nothing for the actual story.
You make great points, and about 6:12, it's not to say Arcane doesn't have moments like this. They do, but instead of using these callouts to hype man girlbosses, of which there are several, they use them to underscore the traits that are truly important about them versus capacity for violence or physical strength.
"You've got a *good heart.* Don't ever lose it."
"What makes you *different* makes you strong. Always remember that, okay?"
"Do I look afraid to you?" --> "No, you look *weak."*
"It's not enough to survive. You have to *give people what they need to live."*
Vi has a good heart, which isn't a requirement for a strong female character or for success in this harsh world, but that's what defines her most and drives her choices. Even the violent ones.
Powder is not like the others, but Vi sees potential rather than deficit here, which we later see is right. Jinx figured out everything it took Jayce and Viktor combining their wealth of resources and brainpower to uncover on her own, in a dingy scrap heap versus their expensive laboratory equipment and funding from The Council. She learns to make gadgets that are impressive to even someone like Viktor or Jayce, all on her own. All because Vi and SIlco nurtured the things about her that were disparaged by Mylo and seen as unfavorable in general in this world.
Vander cared so much for the kids that he sacrificed a lot related to his cause. Some may argue he lost too much in that pursuit since it got him killed. Although at the same time, if Vander had not cared for them the way he did, they would be dead or at best locked up in that prison by enforcers for the rest of their lives. Vi and Powder would have been on their own if he never took them in. Vi would be dead if he didn't choose to save her instead of go after Silco. He, in a way, became a mother hen for the group, but this isn't treated as weakness by the plot, despite the characters seeing it this way. Some of the series' biggest wins come from his nonviolent choices.
Ekko opts for damage control versus outright annihilation like Vi does, a happy medium between Vander and Vi/Silco's philosophies. He stays out of conflict and waits for optimal moments, at which time he THEN decides to use only the necessary amount of violence. He's not a female character, but I still wanted to point this out since inaction is often conflated as both a weak and a feminine trait, when it can often be neither.
'Tis all I wanted to word vomit.
Women characters can and should be this amazing!
This video really put Arcane on my radar to watch, and I really appreciate that (given, I paused halfway through the video to go watch it first). Thank, This show is absolutely fantastic and it's as you say, the characters are one of, if not the primary appeal to such a great show in every other way already! Can't wait to see everything get expanded upon in the next season.
I'm glad you paused it halfway through, cause I definitely spoil a good bit of the ending.
The way you point out everything that is great in this show, and wrong in most of modern stuff made with less care is just incredibly insightfull. Enjoyed it a lot, keep itt up mate
Thank you! I will do my best!
Ah, I'm glad this is back up! I got worried when I didn't see it in my feed. Glad it wasn't UA-cam pulling some shenanigans!
I must say, as a fellow nerdy Catholic who also has respect for good writing, wherever that may be found, but also likes based takes on the current industry, I am pleased with your work, sir! It's not much, but you've earned a subscriber! :)
Nope, just me being a dum dum with editing. Glad you've been enjoying my rambly thoughts! I'm glad you are here.
Catholics are cringe af.
I'm really glad that Arcane exists as a shining beacon of what good writing can do in the modern age. To all those Karen-like writers and producers who attack their target audiences for not liking their shitty stories, this is the level you should be writing at. These are the characters we pay to see more of. Arcane is better than every single streaming show made for Disney+ put together. I mean Andor was pretty good but Arcane still tops it.
Kind of incredible that even within the animated style, Arcane's writing holds it up and demands to be taken seriously.
Arcane definitely raised my standards for media
@@wolfidessdragondolso your standards are still pretty shitty
What??? People actually LIKE good writing!? And Arcane is written good?! And that's why people like Arcane!? 🤯
Oh, vi beats men twice her size (and women) but she actually uses force multipliers and tactics to do it.
(though it's like she has the reaction time of a fly, but that's awesome)
Now that you did a video on Vi, you are contractually obliged to do one on Jinx too.
All in good time.
One of things I noticed about Vi is that she’s not a great fighter because she’s physically stronger than others. She’s a female, who usually lack raw physical power.
Instead… she’s just really stubborn and willing take a lot of pain in order to win. She still has her limits, but those prove to be much higher than her opponents generally expect.
Most importantly she has skills. Most of the people are either dependent on there physique in a fight or dependent on there weapons to make up what they lack in skill. Vi is a great boxer without weapons she can still hold her own really well that what carry's her far and we see how she got it so it not some power giving to her or she was born with but instead trained. That makes vi better than majority of other female lead she worked for what she has.
I can’t help but think about the Silco quote and applying it to Vi instead: “Power is not something you are born with, or something you are given. No, real power comes to those who will do absolutely anything to get it”
(Also, people often assume that a biological female simply “can’t” do anything a male can physically. It’s not true. Just because it’s an average weakness doesn’t mean it applies to everyone. There’s women I am actively terrified of because I know they could likely kill me without a weapon)
I really enjoyed Arcane and Vi was so beautifully written. She's flawed but keeps trying. Thanks for making this video 💗
You are welcome!
TBH I dont even use the term “strong female lead” anymore because it was born from an era of media when that sort of thing was very rare.
Not only are there far more examples of fictional women being strong/tough now, but that alone isn’t their only defining characteristic, which is far more representative of real life. Arcane demonstrates this beautifully by featuring several women who can kick ass and are strong willed, yet each is still very unique from each other.
I especially appreciate the sisters’ relationship with one another!
I also appreciate that Vi is written in the context of being a woman.
To me Vi is pure perfection.
Vi and all the other characters are amazing and written well, hopefully season 2 will be great like season 1.
Vi is not only a great written female character but a well written queer character as well. Her sexuality doesn't explicitly define her character and she isn't hypersexualized for liking women either. She doesn't follow the stereotypes media typically puts on lgbt characters and they do it in a way that's good representation while also not hindering on the story in any way. I'd love to know what you think of Caitlyn as well as she's almost the complete opposite of Vi but is still a fantastic female character
That’s because who you feel attracted to is not important for a character. Nobody gives a fuck about that. It comes out as forced when it’s pandering and just checking a box. Vi is Vi. Who she likes is way less important than who she is as a person.
Current media thinks saying someone is queer means anything. It’s not an identity and you’re fucked if you MAKE it your identity.
@@nicolegagneux9919actually they are pretty disgusting and should be ostracized. Showing them should be forbidden.
She puts Caitlyn against the wall and "flirts" with her in an agressive seductive voice. That isn't a stereotype of a pushy, manly butch lesbian?
It’s so unimportant that the second largest political group in the most powerful country in the world marks them as things to be removed from society. Yeah, no one cares, mmhmm.
The Castlevania show was a good video game adaptation too in my opinion. It would be interesting to see your opinion on its characters.
I have to admit I've never played the game(s) but that didn't stop me with Arcane. I will put that one on the list!
All female characters from Arcane are strong, and are well written as female. Even the big muscly general Medarda would not work as male. Arcane is truly a masterpiece of character writing.
yes she would, but i dont think she being female takes anything from the character, but everything she transmits is just the noxus values, strenght above all. all noxus characters carrie noxus flag above their head maybe is because we dont have that many in the series yet, but once we get more i will become aparent
@@marcodxd3631 if Medarda was a male Noxian, she wouldn't have the same relationship with Mel. The character would not be as good. The fact that she's female like Mel makes their clash of philosophy more interesting. A father teaching his daughter to rule with violence and fear is just a man trying turn his daughter into a son, but a mother doing so is something else.
@@rustygear447 a father teaching a daughter to rule with violece and fear can be a father protecting her from the world that will be rutless towards her, its a fkd up kinda love but love nontheless , its only turning his daugther in to a son if thats how the writer choose to make it, a father can teach a dauther to be brutal without asking her to be less of a woman, we just lack this in fiction
@@marcodxd3631it wouldn't have worked, that's why they changed it. Originally it was going to be a father actually
@@rustygear447But violence and warrior mentality doesn't turn anyone into a man, doesn't make sense (there are proofs or societies where women were hunters, warriors and providers just as men, or the ones who fitted that rol meanwhile men took care of the children) , and even less in a world where those traits asociated with men and women can be whatever the creator wants. It would have been perfectly fine because fiction doesn't hace to respect our gender biases. In fact, Caitlin's father is the person who teaches her feminine traits, her mother is the person who has an stoic and powerful figure traits wrongly associated only to men.
Thank you very much for this Master Samwise. I was hoping you would do one on Vi after your “audiences hate bad writing” video 💙
You are quite welcome!
Reupload? No problem. I might as well rewatch it. Hahaha
This is probably THE best video essay character analysis I've ever watched on UA-cam. I've watched A LOT of video essays lol. You brought so many great perspectives. Great job man.
WOOO a recent arcane video essay?? Thank you!
My pleasure!
Arcane is a masterpiece
YAS! Absolutely! "Strong women" are not the problem - sh**ty writing is! I absolutely adore how Vi fit ALL the requirements for nowadays typical "strong female characters" to a haircut, yet, she thrive in every ways! She is strong, gruff, moody and stubborn yet it all explained by the setting she lives in. Also, she is not treating male characters like a crap. >_> Jesus Christ for that alone I'm ready to worship Arcane, show where male characters are not stupid and meek and treated like dirt by female characters, what a novice move nowadays! I adore all that father/daughter dynamics between Vi and Vander and Jinx and Silco, it's so cute and wholesome! Even though Jinx is my absolute favorite, I really love Vi (and Sevika, she just grows on me XD ) Arcane is absolutely amazingly awesome with handling it's female characters! Really made you think it's not that complicated to write decent female characters, but, alas, Arcane is rarity, and not a norm. Y_Y
Thank you for such amazing video! Vi sure need more love and recognition for her awesomeness!
Ion think I would call Jinx and Silco's dynamic cute n wholesome in my opinion 😅
I was in the middle of finally getting around to watching Arcane when you posted this video. I can't tell you how happy I am that this was here for me to watch basically the same day I finished.
Nice! I'm glad you didn't watch it earlier, cause I definitely spoil the ending.
@@master_samwise Oh that's exactly why I waited! I took more and more careful pains to avoid spoilering myself as the second and third wave of enthusiasts never turned to disagreeing with the first. As toxic as the game's fandom legendarily is, the cartoon has unified them and new converts in a way I wish could happen with more franchises. That said, I knew enough about the lore to understand that there was no saving Powder. And to me that just highlights the tragedy even further because you know all these efforts are doomed.
1) we see them work for their strength
2) we see them struggle and fail
3) each of them has a different type of strength
Fantastic video - well-put-together argument that makes so much sense.
Thank you!
This is how you write *any* character.
This show is French so free of current Hollywood trends.
Artists are based in France (I'm pretty sure it's still an international team, there are like 200 of them only in the studio). Showrunners and screenwriters are quite American. Like, for example, executive story editor Amanda Overton, who's responsible for the 5th episode (there's a lot of VI in it) and lots of the important bits here and there (like the final Jinx short heartbreaking monologue).
P.S. I really hope she'll be writing the next season. Just found out she wrote for the Severance series, that's not a coincidence.
@@kruzhalovvseverance was amazing!! So excited for season 2.
@@kruzhalovvyep, france, italy and other nations
Yeah, the writers are Americans. Just good ones, and they love the source material.
But, it also shows trough that the show was animated in France. As a southern European myself, there were so many tidbits. How the characters are much closer physically when they speak, and also reach and touch each other a lot (in a good way). How they hug another character when they are in distress (I can't count the number of times I've shouted to an American film "just give the poor thing a HUG"). The structure of the city of Zaun could be lifted from the outskirts of Paris and, of course, the parkour. You can definitely tell.
Excellent points! Such a great character! We want someone who cares about others, learns, and grows.
I read somewhere that there’s a difference between a strong FEMALE character and a strong female CHARACTER.
I love this video. Vi is my favorite character. You said everything perfectly.
Thank you!
You're right. I wouldn't be friends with Vi in real life but I believe wholeheartedly that she acts tough to survive and she's really fighting for others. That's something I don't get from a lot of modern female protagonists. It's why I like so many of the female Avatars too. Kyoshi, Yangchen and Korra. I highly recommend the books about the first two if you're interested. I know we have a lot of Avatar fans here.
I may be a bit biased toward softer and caring characters who can actually beat you to a pulp if needed. Applies to men and women.
As a someone whose favorite character is Vi THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO ❤😭
I thought it was weird that the sponsor segment had no VO before.
I enjoyed this video enough to watch it again lol
me too
Love the analysis of a show I rlly love. Vi is a great character and is how to write a strong female character. I feel like the biggest factor is they show her struggling and getting full on punched. It hammers home how hard she has it better than simply saying it. It also contradictorily makes her look tougher and more impressive, something most shows with ‘strong’ female leads don’t do as they want the female lead shown get hurt or struggling
This is the eighth video in my playlist of the most important videos I have watched.
Besides being a very well put together video essay, when I added it to the playlist it was due to it reminding me of when I hurt someone close to me.
This video inspired the thought of *I don't want to be a bad person.* I want to be a positive influence on everything around me. The reminder that I can and have caused hurt compelled me to steel my resolve and be cautious. The thing that I said could only have negatively impacted who it was said to while boosting my own ego.
I won't forget the look in their eyes. I won't forget the crack in their voice. I don't want to make that happen ever again.
10:42
Amazing essay
Thank you!
Im doing a shoutout for a recent proper strong female lead..ish. camina drummer from the expanse! Would 100% join her crew and fight by her side. She is true beltalowda!
I keep hearing about the Expanse. I swear I'm going to watch it one day lol
When people say that, "You just don't like modern strong female leads", I have been repeatedly pointing to Arcane. It was an amazing series full of amazing women who fit the bill as "Strong female leads", but not only that it was just has amazingly strong character development all around.
Another great one to point to is "The Expanse". All flavours of female characters, and none of them are shallow.
Watchin this on my lunch trying not to tear up just thinking about this show...
Brilliant!
Wow. Great video. I've decided to start watching Arcane. Also, I had a sneaking suspicion you were Catholic based on your previous videos. That's totally epic.
Enjoy it!
I get stuck on tv shows, and this is one of them. There are like four instances of plot armor, othet than that, it seems flawless. Hyperbole, maybe, but its better than anything ive seen in years.
It’s a wonderful show!!
What are those 4 instances of plot armor? Just asking out of curiosity
@gaia7240 Caitlin survives multiple explosions while other people who are right next to her die. During the assault on the shimmer plant, the shimmer suit guys insta kill regular enforcers, but Jayce and Vi are able to survive them by being main characters. Those are the big ones. I haven't watched it in a while. Don't get me wrong, I love this show. It's incredible. I hope the next season has as few flaws as the first!
@@bertimusprime7900 oh well yes it has a bit of a hero thing in it that is true
I feel like people heard, "Write your woman like you would a man and flip the gender," and misunderstood the reason why that would work. It isn't the gender norms that need to be defied, it's the trappings imposed by those expectations.
The real meaning behind that sentiment is not to make you woman protagonist manly, it's to let women have motivations, thoughts, personality traits, and themes that extended beyond the very basic roles typically assigned to them. Let your female protagonist go on a hero's journey without focusing the plot entirely on romance. By all means, add some in if you want. But the weight of the journey has more impact if saving the world isn't second fiddle to which orbiting dude has a better six pack or whatever.
Women in stories traditionally get to have limited roles and personalities. They get to be mothers, healers, caretakers, damsels, or dead in a fridge. If they are action heroes, their stories somehow still orbit around the men in their lives. If they are leaders, it's usually a dystopian and they're actually the big baddie and comically evil or inept. If they are the love interest, they've got nothing going on beyond that. If they're strong, they are flawless and boring.
So when people say write women like you would men, what is often lost is, "Write women with depth and interesting motivations, and let their actions shape the story." Arcane gets that right on so nany levels and for so many characters, it honestly boggles my mind. Absolute peak character writing, with every single one of them, not just Vi. The characters respond realistically to their world and their own internal battles both, regardless of gender, and it is compelling even if you disagree with them personally.
Watching giant puppy, Jayce, lose his way from his initial goal to improve the lives of everyone feels as natural as it is tragic. He's a strong dude, who nonetheless sacrifices his convictions to the pressure of politics, inevitably sacrificing the well-beings of the underdogs in the short term for a perceived long term greater good. It's a great way to show weakness in a strong character.
Even Caitlyn feels poignant, wanting to be valued on her own merits rather than her privilege and legacy, and struggling to do so because the world is not a meritocracy. She wants to believe she judges fairly and without bias, and has to confront her implicit biases by working with Vi, someone who should only be imprisoned because she deserved it if the world was fair, but reality isn't fair. The story isn't unkind to her, though, and her skills as a detective are genuine. She is overall mostly comfortable in her life and doesn't want to upend that necessarily, but she's forced to confront the full extent of how unjust the world really is, and decide how much of her comfort and ambitions she's willing to give up in order to achieve the fair and just world she allegedly wants. It's good. Her story hits on sexism, privilege, and bigotry without feeling preachy, and while I initially doubted her need to be in the story, I was sold on her role in the end. I am excited to see where she goes in the end. By that, I mean I know she will be the sheriff. I want to know what that means, though.
It's so good. Ugh.
Vi is my Netflix profile pic 😂 I kind of relate to her, wanting to be on the « good side »
Arcane is an amazing show. Something uniqe is that it was acceptable for translation in my country that usually are just for children oriented shows. But it did´t feel like they kiddyfied it, they keept the harsh brutal use of everyword even a bit more. And yeah to your point love this characters, totally flawed, not overcoming thier shortcomings in a episode or two, things just gose to hell but it´s still a engaging story full of hope.
Great analysis but I couldn't help but notice how your voice sounds shockingly similar to Christian Linke, the showrunner for Arcane
Have we ever seen them in the same room before?
u know, i think the amount of female characters that have this no empathy, not caring about anyone or any emotions, being always right and perfect and being almost unstoppable is a response to the long list of male characters exactly like that throughout media. And since female characters are always more harshly judged, theres so much backlash. But what we need is human characters. Your video encapsulates this perfectly and why Arcane is the perfect piece of media. Everyone is human and complex.
btw, part of the reason that vi left with Cait is because jinx wanted her to leave in that moment; jinx does a little head gesture, which basically tells vi to leave at that time. so vi, with tears in her eyes, does so. she wasn't giving up on her; far from that, actually. right when she tries to go back for jinx, after getting Caitlyn to safety, silco and the group of enforcers stop her. she clearly wants to go back but once again, is prevented from doing so.
Regarding your request in the end: I wonder if you've read Leigh Bardugo's books? I read the Six of Crows duology, and, while the author is obviously progressive and I don't appreciate all the simping for Russian culture (no hate, just a fact), I really like what she did with the Inej Ghafa's character. It's YA and the language sometimes feels a bit juvenile (but I'm an adult, so dugh) still I love that teenagers have an example of a compassionate, caring girl also being a badass and having her own hero journey. I wish there was more stuff like this in media targeted at kids.
One point I would disagree with is at Mark 20:00, al fictions writes the society they know or impart model, the saying Sci-fi isn't about the future but the present through the lens of the future has stood true for decades for a reason. Most "strong female leads" are YA novel novel protagonists outs side of YA novels. Before March 2012, how many of these "Strong female characters" were in pop fiction? March 2012 in when hunger games debuted in theaters. There have been entire book series with females leads from Anita Blake, Kim Harrisons Hollows series (with the witch Rachel Morgan), Mercy Thompson , most of Ann McCaffrys books. Whole multi volume series than never got an adaptation, all which have settings from modern (at the time) to space opera, to fantasy. I mean the net is a buzz with Baulders gate 3, But Dragonlance and Forgotten realms often have ensemble casts with female co-leades. Pathfinder has a 7 volumes of trade paperback comics with enable casts.
Hollywood doesn't understand why people enjoy the characters in their stories in the first place if they don't get why people hate the "strong, independent women" they write in their movies. For as long as story telling has been around for, people have liked characters because they can relate to them. They build connections to the character not because they punch good or they shove the middle finger up at the patriarchy every second but from their flaws and struggles. It's something we as humans feel because we too have made these same mistakes before and seeing someone fight, and work, and struggle to overcome those problems in the end is fulfilling. The parts that make these characters feel real is what people attach to, not how great they can swing a weapon or how perfect they are. That's what writers in Hollywood fail to do on several occasions and as a result, not only does their characters fall through but also their plot, their worldbuilding and their story entirely.
Cool video Samwise. Since you mentioned that the show would be different if Vi and Jinx were male would you consider comparing Arcane to the anime Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood which has two brothers as the main characters?
Have you ever seen Sharp Objects? It is a book by Gillian Flynn (Gone Girl) that was turned into an HBO series. It’s overall amazing but I’d love to see your analysis on Camille.
Over the years I have created an anthology of short stories set in a world with a very conservative and at times sadistic society-think Francoist Spain crossed with ancient Israel. I can relate to wanting to create characters that don’t align with modern values. But it seems like that is what writing is supposed to be for: to explore a world that maybe doesn’t align with ours, and see how characters live inside it. In short, you’re closing statement really spoke to me.
Did you get a copyright claim or was something wrong in the video when you first uploaded it?
Editing issue.
ah thanks, that's a relief you didn't get a strike@@master_samwise
Showing, not telling is the best method of storytelling.
Sokka, from The Last Airbender, please.
Your analysis is spot-on. Generous, yet incisive, and aptly descriptive of what works about Arcane's writing and storytelling. Really enjoyed this. I see a lot of film/TV criticism, and far too many dumb yet telling comments sections, on this topic. And people love to put the lion's share of responsibility on Hollywood writers and studio execs for giving us one-dimensional female characters or plying the "girl boss" trope; and some people are also quick to lambast actors and writers who respond (in understandable defensiveness) to the loudest, most-hamfisted of these criticisms. Often those same actors and writers are far too quick to dismiss all criticism in this vein, characterizing it as unthoughtful and anti-feminist, whether intended or no. (It doesn't help the situation...)
All that said, even if the lion's share of responsibility does lie with artists and executives, I wonder how much of a role audiences play in these decisions behind closed doors. Audiences aren't stupid, and don't appreciate being treated like they are stupid; but they're also unwilling to entertain the notion that they might be part of a mob (for good or for ill, intended or no). The world has, and is, changing; attitudes rebalance, update, or adjust to new social norms. And we can't discount the effect, sometimes chilling, that the #MeToo Movement had on cinema--even if much of its positive effects cannot be judged or ascertained by the public, outside of the industry itself. I hazard to suggest that audiences are responsible for flat, boring, or unchanging women almost as much as writers or studio execs are. And that consistently laying the blame on writers and studios, without a shred of awareness of our own culpability, is intellectually lazy and will only continue the trend. Vi will continue to be an outlier.
Full agree on every point made, but I will add a caveat/insight that might have been missed. Protagonists that primarily exist for themselves, and not for anyone else, may seem shallow if you were never socialized into obligated, everyday self-sacrifice. And yeah, many portrayals of such characters aren't well done and are very unlikeble and not compelling at all; the characters mentioned visually (2020 mulan, carol danvers, etc) kinda suck lol (Rey's not as bad bc she has 3 movies for them to try to get the personality right, not just 1). But a character whose development journey is from self-effacing to assertive, evem borderline self-centered -- someone who won't put aside their own boundaries or self-respect, evem when their family, friends, and loved ones expect them to -- can resonate deeply with people who have had to make that same journey. And there is a real social pressure in MANY cultures that teenaged girls internalize: I must be kind; I must think of others; I must be sensitive to other's opinions and never offend anyone; I must be the kind, skinny, and innocent Ariel/Rapunzel/Snow White, and I must never be the self-centered, older, confident Ursula/mother Gothel/evil queen. So a lot of women in their 20s and 30s have to relearn how to self-prioritize and assert basic boundaries. Being self-prioritized can read as selfish/self-centered, or shallow, for audiences who never had to relearn how to do that. And obvs there are boys who had to relearn that, and girls who are selfish from the get go lol. But, as a general rule of thumb, MOSTLY society pressures boys into being self-reliant and to chase success, and pressures girls into being self-effacing and to help other people achieve their success. This kind of character resonates because, as you said, it's an underdog narrative -- self-sacrificng to self-prioritizing!
But god Disney does NOT know how to do it well and yet is determined to do it poorly over and over and over 🙄🙄. Moana does it okay.
Not just girl characters but this show has tons of differing world views and has the balls to show the faults in all of them. There is no perfect answer.
It's a show that really encapsulates issues in our world in a creative and satisfying way. We can see how the struggles and issues in Piltover/Zaun apply to our world, but they're not shoved in without context.
@master_samwise They are well written and given space to breath. So many portrayed ideologies play those in the wrong as "villians" and the main character's ideology as "good". This show has the guts and writing skill to show faults in characters and ideology.
As you have said before the writing is overwhelmingly the problem
Can you analyze Harry du Bois?
The "girlboss" tends to be an appropriation of the 80's edgy male action badass archetype. But without the self-awareness that to make that character work, you need them to be broken on the inside.
Yup, and the 80s action heroes were just that. They weren't held up as amazing examples of male empowerment. They were just dumb action heroes, and no one made a fuss about it.
@@master_samwiseyes they did, everyone liked terminator and Rocky. But the problem is not the caracter but the tone. Those characters work because in action films, histories and characters are simple and one dimensional, and mary sues work the same way in those stories because everything is over the top. But no one can expect a very complex character in a superhero movie, because the history is one dimentional, Captain America (even if the plot it is complicated) stays in the same archetype and works and Captain Marvel and She Hulk work even if they can be unlikable as people because the tone is one dimensional and superheroes are propaganda and good vs evil. Of course in a complex story, complex characters are required, but you can't expect a shakesperian character in a simple movie or a simple character in a costumbrist history without anykind of subversion.
Something I really love about Vi is that despite being a stong female protagonist her strongest character traits are also her flaws. She’s stong willed, but she’s also so stubborn that it ends up destroying most of her relationship with Powder. She refuses to compromise on anything or with anyone, even her own sister. She learns fast and she’s skilled, but she also ends up leaving her friends (Caitlyn, Milo & Claggor) in the dust behind her in her pursuit of what she wants. The hallmark of a well written character is that their strengths are mirrored by their flaws and Vi does that perfectly.
This video made me realize that Vi punching Powder and Luke raising his lightsaber to kill the sleeping Ben... are essentially trying to achieve the same thing for the arcs of the characters. It would be interesting to see this as a comparison video to explore why the Star Wars scene did not work as well. Beyond angry nerds simply saying "The Luke Skywalker I know would never do something like that.😠"
I actually made a video on Arcane vs The Last Jedi on subverting expectations. I don’t think I mention that moment for Vi, though.
I personally think it's has to do with the setup and characters head space at the moment . With Luke their was no build-up on why he tried to kill Ben , especially since last time we saw Luke. He had forgiven Vader the genocidal maniac and spared his life , so it breaks the character . In arcane, we see why Vi punches her sister , she was angry at powder for basically killing their family
It’s not very similar other than surface level, Vi hit Powder in a brief moment of rage and grief but she never had the intention of killing her, while Luke is shown literally planning and attempting the murder of someone when we’ve seen none of the context
Finally, someone who acknowledges the rich lore of the game
THANK YOU for saying all this!!! I love your explanation on why Vi wouldn't work as a dude. Also the constant roasts of modern strong female characters 😂😂😂
"It simply lets her be strong." That's how you do it!!!
Camina Drummer and almost every woman in Game of Thrones are well-written strong women.
The Expanse has a pretty broad variety of female characters. Most of them could be called strong characters, but they are all strong in extremely different ways.
I love your point near the end about likeable character vs. likeable person. Some of my favorite characters are literally huge monsters that mess up entire cities or even worlds. Does that mean I want cities and worlds to be destroyed? Would I want them to be real if they would still do these things? Of course not! I just think they're cool looking! lol
But she has flaws and I love it