the description of Dragon Hunter’s Katana really reminds me of what Marika did to her own imperfect children. the ancient dragons despised their lowborn to the point they endorsed the hunt and devouring of drakes’ hearts - the priestess says her dragon lord himself showed humans what must be done. Bale with his horned head bears resemblance to the omens Marika sealed in Leyndel catacombs, his kin deeply hated by their ancestors grow horns on their heads as well. I kinda wonder where does the Lamenter Mask fit into this story - another transformation that cannot be undone, another striking resemblance to the Dread. and yes 😭 I’d most likely be a wyrm too…
That’s so true and i did wonder about the Lamenter’s mask too! I love the way themes and other elements of the game co-mingle into others. It’s such a rich story! Thanks so much for watching 😁
i also love the observation of how the hunger for dragon heart is the curse...it's the conversation of addiction is the disease that the substance being abused causes!
First time coming across this channel and I instantly subscribed. You're extremely knowledgeable and I wanted to dive deeper into Bayle's lore as a result of finally beating him last night. I appreciated the video in its entirety. The lore, the side quests (I refused to accept help from anyone or partake in communion), dialogue, the NPCs, the real-life comparisons, analogies, and even the bloopers at the end. 10/10 video in my opinion and it's saved to my playlist because I want to cross reference it again later. :)
Enjoying this theory. I figure that Bayle’s Curse and the magma wyrm transformation can only be sated by consuming his heart, as Florissax says, but the rub is that you will die rather than become a magma wyrm. Like the Ghostflame Dragons, Bayle’s rage continues beyond his demise.
So no one is talking about those massive bull coffins near the Finger Ruins and I'm starting to think all of this happened because someone kicked the Fingers out of their lands. Seems like the dragons all got along until someone else's problems washed up on shore.
Tarnished Archeologist has a video on them. Those giant coffins most likely come from before anything Marika or Hornsent related. They seem to come from an era before them, similar to the Uld Palace and other such places
I love the idea of Bayle being Placis son. I hope they decide to give us more dlc and we can follow this path and see the end of dragon communion. Hopefully restoring dragons in the lands between.
So good! Lots of insights I hadn't noticed before! You're definitely bringing something new to the table regardless of who released a video on a similar topic recently ;) And I really like where you're going with questioning which dragon lineage came from which dragon(s)! Lots to chew on and lots that reinforces some headcannon stuff I've been trying to work out. Thanks for sharing!!
Bayle is seriously peculiar and I'm super happy to hear your thoughts on the dragons! I think you're right that Bayle is the child of Placiduseax and Greyoll given her Crucible features
On a non lore note: i wish we got red draconic eyes from eating Bayle's heart. i also chose a dragon communion character in my first playthrough and wish we got to bring it full circle after eating Bayle's heart and eat Placiduseax's as the final communion. (Btw the Vampire Lord should be his moniker bc his teeth are sunk into Bayle)
It’s more likely that Bayle was the product of either Placidusax mating with another ancient dragon and Bayle being born as he was because he was afflicted by the crucible, or from two random ancient dragons. After all, Bayle is said to be the father of all drakes. He is the first drake. If Greyoll was his mother, then she’d be the first, but she’s not.
@@Amon_Teivel Just want to clarify something, since this seems to get commented a lot; Greyoll's Roar calls her the "mother of all dragons" not just Drakes specifically. So, it's going to be a bit more nuanced than that. Just want to add that in there 🤗
@@AHumanJusticar I’m pretty sure it’s referring to drakes. She can’t really be the mother of ALL dragons since I very much doubt Placidusax was her offspring. She’s most likely either Bayle’s mate or his daughter. There is a dead giant drake at the grand alter, so I’d say that was Greyoll’s mate, and Bayle was her father. Plus, she is a drake herself, with the only distinction being her size. I’m pretty sure Vastividya pointed that out in his lore video. I highly recommend giving it a watch if you haven’t. Just giving my perspective. Who knows? I could be flat out wrong. And that’s the fun of it.
Something that doesn't get talked about at all seemingly is how Placidusax looks. No other dragon has more then 1 head let alone 4 or 5. He's like a Hydra with Wings lol.
Placidusax is an amalgam being, just like Consort Radahn (Mohg and Radahn) and Godfrey (Hourah Loux and Serosh). A Lord must be created. The player, too, is an assemblage of powers as we absorb the power of those we defeat. We are a container, a Vessel, like Marika and the Jars and Maliketh. This might also explain why we can walk across lava without instantly dying. All Life has been tempered by Magma, which is also why Bayle and the Fire Giants and the Great Serpent are magmatic in power. This is also why Alexander bathes in the magma of Mt Gelmir to strengthen himself. Magma is flame and metal conjoined, such as in a Crucible. The Ancient Dragons may, in fact, be artificial beings that arose from meteor strikes like the Onyx and Alabaster lords. Vers 1.0 implies this with its flavor text on the Draconic stones, stating that such stones were made by meteorite impacts long ago. In fact, the Somber Draconic Smithing Stone states outright that it is "the scale of an ancient dragon lord". As fir GRR Martin, the dragons of ASOIF are artificial beings, also. They were created through magic by combining Wyverns (like ER's drakes) and Lava Wyrms (like the Great Serpent). Perhaps the Drakes came first (hence how Bayle could be the oldest) and they were combined with the Serpents within the Forge. This would explain why the Ancient Dragons have long, serpentine necks. We also see how malleable Serpents are since there are Man-Serpents in Gelmir. The skulls of Ancient Dragons are also wedge-shaped, like a viper. Drakes have skulls similar to classical draconic depictions, like canine or, in fact, Boc and some of the demihumans. Greyoll exists contemporaneously with Bayle. He cannot both be the "oldest" and be Greyoll's son. They are mutually exclusive.
Love your thoughts on Magma, really ties the Crucible in there nicely. Which is something that haunts my thoughts whenever I make a new video...lol I'd like to make a full "Artificial Beings" video eventually since it's something I've talked about in a few videos now. I do like the way Miyazaki toys with the question "What makes something alive?" Also, the idea of cross breeding dragons isn't far off from what I was thinking! Makes sense when you bring the modern Man-Serpents into the equation. And absolutely, I can see how those two things would contradict each other, BUT it wouldn't be the first time we were told something that turned out to be untrue. Thanks for watching! :D
@@AHumanJusticar yeah, there are lots of artificial beings in ER, and amalgams. The Dragonkin Soldiers, the Albinaurics, Jars, Gravebirds, Golems, Mimic Tears, Royal Revenants, Graven Masses, Gargoyles, etc. Vers 1.0 outright states that Albinaurics are "manmade" and speaks directly of Mimic Tears being artificial beings. Personally, I think the Twinbird god was likely similar to the Gravebirds and the Dragons; that is to say, a stone creature. The time before the Crucible was likely a literal Stone Age where Beastmen worshiped living stone idols. I do not think it is a coincidence that Gurranq's attack rend stone, or that Marika crumbles like stone. The beings in the Lands Between are all a mixture of biological material and metals. This is likely why the Albinaurics are so reviled: because they reflect the nature of the "true" Golden Order and how they were made. This is also likely why the Ancestral Followers avoid metals. The Golden Order literally uses gold to control its followers (with Grace). This is likely also how Miquella controls people with unalloyed gold, and how he wards the control of the Outer Gods. It is a consummate metaphor, and quite clever of GRRM.
I think Bayle was a hornsent engaged in the older form of Dragon Communion. He's very similar to a Magma Wyrm. It would make the creation of modern dragon communion more poetic.
I can’t help but see the Dragon Communion Knights as a parallel to the Omen Killers, similar to the Wormface Hornsent. They are all enlisted by the Gods to hunt down reviled creatures and repurpose their remains, whilst risking their own humanity in the process. I see the DLC as a collection of areas telling different aspects of the same story about death. And in the Jagged Peak, I think the story we’re told is one about how quickly out Tarnished can fall into the role of executioner, like Messmer’s Crusaders or the like. We are enticed by Igon’s fiery obsession and Florrisax’s speeches, but realistically, we have no reason to judge Bayle as evil. The only accounts we have are given on behalf of the one Dragon who would obviously hate him the most. And based on all the stories of superiority and inferiority in this game - with many item descriptions talking about the drakes being lowborn or lesser kin - I can’t help but think Placidusax and the Dragon Communion Knights are the real villains here. We are never told why Bayle assailed the Dragonlord in the first place, but the DLC takes great care to tell us a parallel story justifying Marika’s initial revolt against the Hornsent. Perhaps the Drakes, like Omen and many other races, were the victims of oppression, causing Bayle to rebel in a grand clash with Placidusax. Then, assumedly millennia later, we as Dragon Communion Knights arrive, propagandised by the words and rewards of the Dragonlord, for no greater purpose than to simply settle his ages-old racist grudge match. There’s a theory, based on a video that I unfortunately can’t remember, that the DLC is like a microcosm of the base game. And in this microcosm, I think Bayle kind of reflects Mohg, a lowborn who embraced their lesser status and fostered a great rebellion, before later falling at the hands of a Witless Tarnished. Perhaps there’s also a parallel between Mohg’s enchantment and Bayle’s lasting injuries, both of which have capped off their potential. The Lord of Blood is elusive and hidden from the Order, while Bayle fled before hiding from the Dragonlord. I also think their faces and horns look really similar which is kind of cool.
There's a lot of interesting and compelling ideas here. The Ancient Dragons can't be just made of stone though since they can bleed, unlike the Guardian Golems, Imps and suchlike.
A note about red lightning: color is very important in Elden Ring, and lightning is inherently gold natured. The Gravel Seal says this was the official reason for legalizing worship of the ancient dragons. So what of red lightning then? The Bolt of Granssax is golden, but turns red when you use the weapon art. In addition, the Crucible Knight armor and gilded greatshield refer to their color as gold tinged with red. If any lightning is not golden in Elden Ring, it would be the cold lightning of the dragonkin soldiers, as the Nox famously embraced silver and shunned gold.
I love the "color theory" used by Fromsoft in Elden Ring. It's something I try to consider in all of my theories since it's such an important aspect that follows a very particular pattern over and over again. The Ancient Dragon I find the most interesting is Lich Dragon Fortissax. His Red lightning remains in this 'pure' state, while the "Golden" lightning wielded by Godwyn becomes corrupted and discolored. This suggests that Gold alone is not stable and Red is it's strength. Which to me makes total sense since pure gold as a metal is very soft and malleable. Anyways ~ It's super fascinating! I considered making a color video a while back BUT HawkShaw already has a fantastic one. I'm not sure I'd be adding much more to the conversation. Sorry for rambling! lol
In ancient times, it was harder to remove contaminants from gold, and things like copper would often give it a reddish color. While the ancient dragons have gold as part of their bodies, their lightning seems to use this earlier, more crude attempt at harnessing the power of gold. Also, Placidusax has gold lightning around his arena in Phase 1, but he can't wield it.
I was actually referring to Hawkshaw's color theory. Under this theory, red embodies, among other things, life itself. This could explain why the deathblight lightning is only golden without red.
Perhaps bale was an ancient dragon originally and being an ancient dragon had control the red lightning however, after consuming the hearts of geroll’s spawn he became an ancient dragon equivalent of a magma wyrm which would explain his magma powers and his “unique” appearance. - unlikely but a neat thought:)
Watching this made me realize the godskins are gaurding a drake body, not an ancient dragon. Maybe drakes were made by a dragon mating with a serpent? And this is why humans become "magma: wyrms, connecting to magma sorcery in mt gelmir. Otherwise I am so confused as to why a drake head is even there. As a trophy? Then why are the godskins there? Maybe Bayle is a fusion, thus the twin heart thing, of an ancient dragon and a human (numen/shaman)? Which is why he is arcane scaling and has magma. Could make sense of the horns being curled if he was mixed with a jar shaman? Just winging it here, I have no clue.
It’s just the Drake’s head, there isn’t a body behind there. I think it could be there to signify the first Drake sacrifice in the new Dragon Communion but I’m not sure! It is interesting that the Godskin Duo happen to be there 🧐 Thanks for watching!
Godskins are there because of Malekith who wields destined death. As they are servants of Gloam eyed queen it's pretty obvious why they are there in the first place.
Here's a comment! Praise be the Algorithm! As to thoughts, I think people wondering about Bayle having been a mortal that partook of Communion might even be down to something you mentioned yourself, and it made me consider it even having never known the theory before. Bayle's heart. It looks more like a four-chambered, human heart, stabbled and riddled and consumed with Dragon Stone. It isn't the heart of a Drake. It isn't the heart of an Ancient Dragon, unless they have hidden hearts that we cant access. Why else would Bayle be a young fiery dragon with a human heart, and a human's ambition, and a human's short sighted aspirations? Maybe it's shape is merely like many other things in Elden Ring; a metaphor made literal. Bayle has the fiery and rebellious and passionate heart of a human, so his physical heart is in the shape of one. Just like the Magma Wyrms lose their human hearts and become ravenous monsters, having the heart of a Drake, Bayle lacked the immortal and detached heart of a true Dragon. Heart being both the metaphorical 'emotial and motivating spirit' of someone "he put his whole heart into it" as well as the literal muscle that pumps blood. Its just a thought, but yeah, with the way reality seems to be structured in Elden Ring, a key part of understanding it may be in the inherent manifestation of metaphors and ideas into physical reality.
Bayle’s heart is such a mysterious aspect about it him. And the line about it one day consuming the one who eats it makes me wonder if his heart is where his soul lies. Thanks so much for watching 😊
I’d buy that it was plaxy that was the Vampire. His heads look like they were biting Bayle. You may also notice that Bayles “nest” looks like an arena. Seat sections, and towers (7 of them). We know ancient dragons are snooty at the low born dragons. I think Bayle was the first “Low Born” dragon. Much like Mogh, he was maybe royalty too (as you said, his son). I think Plaxy was ashamed and made his son a sideshow to kill him but Bayle would not relent, he seethed with anger and hate for being subjugated for the crime of being born. I imagine his blood would spill in his cage/arena blooming flowers…..and the discovery of its power would be revealed. Dragon communion may have started before the betrayal. What did he do? He challenged his B#%+# ass dad. “What a weak cowardly king! Come face me yourself!”. The hasty retreat was not Bayle, a lie. It was Plaxy who ran like a cowered. Bayles wings were probably not damaged from their fight, that was done ages before, so he could not escape. Doomed to crawl on the earth…..like a worm. I imagine the ancient dragons who saw this Gladiator tormented all his life, but refuse to yield as inspiring. Then to watch your “king” get spanked and run away…….knowing Bayle could not follow. Pathetic, I’d turn on him too. Plaxy used his people as living wall, to start dragon communion (stone heart), sleep deprives our priestess for thousands of years, and why wouldn’t he cage, torture, and feast on his own ugly kid. I’m the with ghost man, take them all down! That being said…..I also was a communionerer on my first run. And my hunger could not be sated. As soon as I saw dragons I stopped thinking. Ignored all of Miquella’s thing, and found Igon. I didn’t even know about how much the shards reduced damage. I smashed my face against Bayle for hours with 3 hard lol. But I ate his heart! Then realized I couldn’t get both spells……so I started the next journey speed run killed Mogh and Radahn (which was pleasantly easy, thanks to our surgeon, you can get to Mohg really fast). All so I could do it all over again for my second heart! Muahahaha. Yeah, this stuff is addictive. But Bayle can take my body. He deserves it.
Think about it. If Bayle never really got to fly all his life, his lighting and rage would boil the rocks below his belly. He wasn’t born with the ability, he manifested it through decades of torment. Building, and eventually erupting, causing devastation (which may be the sea of magma that hit the Devine towers and caused the sea of magma Tarnished Archeologist suggests)
What if bayle is the result of The Crucible think about it every time a god arises The Crucible just will not go The Crucible and its influence keeps trying to take hold it took hold again in created bayle a dragon that has no gravel Stone scales not Immortal but is powerful and strong The Crucible once again was recreating dragons but this time without the immortality For placidgesax it's bayle For marika it's the omen
I think that the Crucible fights the influence of the Elden Ring in some way, which is why little bits of evolution and the Crucible peak in no matter what the Fingers, Elden Beast, Gods, or Elden Lord's do. The Crucible is chaotic/primordial life. The Elden Ring and gold are 'ordered' life.
@@liarwithagun well think about it The Crucible is all about a tangled mess of horns Wings fangs and claws even animals that shouldn't have horns do the Rune Bears have gravel Stone and horns in some variation of the species even the deer have horns growing from their bodies somewhere now what fits that description perfectly the dragons but the dragons after being molded by The Crucible became the embodiment of order at one point during the ancient times of the land between in The Crucible took offense to its creation being used to impose order and threw a curveball Bayle
"... and yet Igon exists." 🤌 After hearing that guy's sound bite so often in so many videos this line in your video cracked me up 🤣 And thank you for sparing my ears! Loving your analysis so far! Just had to pause to write this :P
"Drake warriors are silent-" "CURSE YOU VILE BAYYYYYYLLLEEEE-" "from their birth, committed to-" "MY SPEARS WILL PEARCE YOUR ACCURSED HIDE, MY WRATH WILL RAIN UPON YOU IN A MIGHTY STORM OF GLORY" "...committed to the cause of their... Igon please I am trying to-" "HE SHALL RUE THE DAY-" "*sigh*, well. Igon never really was much for rules.😒"
@@danielled8665 hahaha! I legit lol'd reading your comment. lol and I finished the video and A Human Justicar assaulted my ears with Igon later in the vid :P
the description of Dragon Hunter’s Katana really reminds me of what Marika did to her own imperfect children.
the ancient dragons despised their lowborn to the point they endorsed the hunt and devouring of drakes’ hearts - the priestess says her dragon lord himself showed humans what must be done. Bale with his horned head bears resemblance to the omens Marika sealed in Leyndel catacombs, his kin deeply hated by their ancestors grow horns on their heads as well.
I kinda wonder where does the Lamenter Mask fit into this story - another transformation that cannot be undone, another striking resemblance to the Dread.
and yes 😭 I’d most likely be a wyrm too…
That’s so true and i did wonder about the Lamenter’s mask too! I love the way themes and other elements of the game co-mingle into others. It’s such a rich story!
Thanks so much for watching 😁
I always thought Bayle was an ancient dragon born as an omen, his horns and the overall aesthetic reminds me of Mogh.
LOVE THIS!!! i love the Bayle family tree conversation because it reminds me specifically of Cronus, son of Uranus and Gaia in greek myth! Love it
i also love the observation of how the hunger for dragon heart is the curse...it's the conversation of addiction is the disease that the substance being abused causes!
just finished watching the video!! certified BANGER
So glad you liked it! Thanks for watching Rivu! ☺️
BEEN DYING FOR THIS! Yay!!!!
😉
The amount of work that goes into these videos never ceases to amaze me. Another amazing video, thank you!
Thank you so much 😊
First time coming across this channel and I instantly subscribed. You're extremely knowledgeable and I wanted to dive deeper into Bayle's lore as a result of finally beating him last night. I appreciated the video in its entirety. The lore, the side quests (I refused to accept help from anyone or partake in communion), dialogue, the NPCs, the real-life comparisons, analogies, and even the bloopers at the end. 10/10 video in my opinion and it's saved to my playlist because I want to cross reference it again later. :)
Enjoying this theory. I figure that Bayle’s Curse and the magma wyrm transformation can only be sated by consuming his heart, as Florissax says, but the rub is that you will die rather than become a magma wyrm. Like the Ghostflame Dragons, Bayle’s rage continues beyond his demise.
So no one is talking about those massive bull coffins near the Finger Ruins and I'm starting to think all of this happened because someone kicked the Fingers out of their lands. Seems like the dragons all got along until someone else's problems washed up on shore.
Tarnished Archeologist has a video on them. Those giant coffins most likely come from before anything Marika or Hornsent related. They seem to come from an era before them, similar to the Uld Palace and other such places
I love the idea of Bayle being Placis son. I hope they decide to give us more dlc and we can follow this path and see the end of dragon communion. Hopefully restoring dragons in the lands between.
Thanks! I really want more details on Farum Azula 🤘🏼 we can hope!
There sadly won't be more
@@rathosalphaMaybe not through DLC, but there could still be more official stories made in this world in other ways.
Haven't had the time to immerse myself back into the lands between. But found myself watching through the whole video. Really enjoyed it!
I’m so glad you enjoyed it! 😁
So good! Lots of insights I hadn't noticed before! You're definitely bringing something new to the table regardless of who released a video on a similar topic recently ;)
And I really like where you're going with questioning which dragon lineage came from which dragon(s)! Lots to chew on and lots that reinforces some headcannon stuff I've been trying to work out. Thanks for sharing!!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching 😁
Bayle is seriously peculiar and I'm super happy to hear your thoughts on the dragons! I think you're right that Bayle is the child of Placiduseax and Greyoll given her Crucible features
On a non lore note: i wish we got red draconic eyes from eating Bayle's heart. i also chose a dragon communion character in my first playthrough and wish we got to bring it full circle after eating Bayle's heart and eat Placiduseax's as the final communion. (Btw the Vampire Lord should be his moniker bc his teeth are sunk into Bayle)
That’s so true about Placidusax’s teeth being sunk into Bayle!! Why didn’t I think of that 😅
Thank you so much for watching! 😁
It’s more likely that Bayle was the product of either Placidusax mating with another ancient dragon and Bayle being born as he was because he was afflicted by the crucible, or from two random ancient dragons. After all, Bayle is said to be the father of all drakes. He is the first drake. If Greyoll was his mother, then she’d be the first, but she’s not.
@@Amon_Teivel Just want to clarify something, since this seems to get commented a lot; Greyoll's Roar calls her the "mother of all dragons" not just Drakes specifically. So, it's going to be a bit more nuanced than that. Just want to add that in there 🤗
@@AHumanJusticar I’m pretty sure it’s referring to drakes. She can’t really be the mother of ALL dragons since I very much doubt Placidusax was her offspring. She’s most likely either Bayle’s mate or his daughter. There is a dead giant drake at the grand alter, so I’d say that was Greyoll’s mate, and Bayle was her father. Plus, she is a drake herself, with the only distinction being her size. I’m pretty sure Vastividya pointed that out in his lore video. I highly recommend giving it a watch if you haven’t.
Just giving my perspective. Who knows? I could be flat out wrong. And that’s the fun of it.
This is great! I love bayles lore
Thank you! This video exhausted me hahaha 😂 I hope I don’t have to talk about that big red dragon for a while
So dope. Maybe the best vid on this subject yet :)
Thank you so much 🤘🏼☺️
Wow Great video this is the only part of the dlc I haven't been to yet
Thank you! ☺️
Thank god. I thought I had gaslit myself into thinking you were up loading lol.
Haha! Oh god I know it’s been WAY too long, there were some hiccups in making this video but it’s finally done! Thanks for being patient 😅
Something that doesn't get talked about at all seemingly is how Placidusax looks. No other dragon has more then 1 head let alone 4 or 5. He's like a Hydra with Wings lol.
So excited for this! Gonna listen to it to fall asleep tonight 😊
Hope you enjoy!
@@AHumanJusticar i did! It’s so well done 🤩
Sweet dreams, bro
Placidusax is an amalgam being, just like Consort Radahn (Mohg and Radahn) and Godfrey (Hourah Loux and Serosh). A Lord must be created. The player, too, is an assemblage of powers as we absorb the power of those we defeat. We are a container, a Vessel, like Marika and the Jars and Maliketh. This might also explain why we can walk across lava without instantly dying. All Life has been tempered by Magma, which is also why Bayle and the Fire Giants and the Great Serpent are magmatic in power. This is also why Alexander bathes in the magma of Mt Gelmir to strengthen himself. Magma is flame and metal conjoined, such as in a Crucible.
The Ancient Dragons may, in fact, be artificial beings that arose from meteor strikes like the Onyx and Alabaster lords. Vers 1.0 implies this with its flavor text on the Draconic stones, stating that such stones were made by meteorite impacts long ago. In fact, the Somber Draconic Smithing Stone states outright that it is "the scale of an ancient dragon lord".
As fir GRR Martin, the dragons of ASOIF are artificial beings, also. They were created through magic by combining Wyverns (like ER's drakes) and Lava Wyrms (like the Great Serpent). Perhaps the Drakes came first (hence how Bayle could be the oldest) and they were combined with the Serpents within the Forge. This would explain why the Ancient Dragons have long, serpentine necks. We also see how malleable Serpents are since there are Man-Serpents in Gelmir. The skulls of Ancient Dragons are also wedge-shaped, like a viper. Drakes have skulls similar to classical draconic depictions, like canine or, in fact, Boc and some of the demihumans.
Greyoll exists contemporaneously with Bayle. He cannot both be the "oldest" and be Greyoll's son. They are mutually exclusive.
Love your thoughts on Magma, really ties the Crucible in there nicely. Which is something that haunts my thoughts whenever I make a new video...lol
I'd like to make a full "Artificial Beings" video eventually since it's something I've talked about in a few videos now. I do like the way Miyazaki toys with the question "What makes something alive?" Also, the idea of cross breeding dragons isn't far off from what I was thinking! Makes sense when you bring the modern Man-Serpents into the equation. And absolutely, I can see how those two things would contradict each other, BUT it wouldn't be the first time we were told something that turned out to be untrue.
Thanks for watching! :D
@@AHumanJusticar yeah, there are lots of artificial beings in ER, and amalgams. The Dragonkin Soldiers, the Albinaurics, Jars, Gravebirds, Golems, Mimic Tears, Royal Revenants, Graven Masses, Gargoyles, etc. Vers 1.0 outright states that Albinaurics are "manmade" and speaks directly of Mimic Tears being artificial beings. Personally, I think the Twinbird god was likely similar to the Gravebirds and the Dragons; that is to say, a stone creature. The time before the Crucible was likely a literal Stone Age where Beastmen worshiped living stone idols. I do not think it is a coincidence that Gurranq's attack rend stone, or that Marika crumbles like stone. The beings in the Lands Between are all a mixture of biological material and metals. This is likely why the Albinaurics are so reviled: because they reflect the nature of the "true" Golden Order and how they were made. This is also likely why the Ancestral Followers avoid metals. The Golden Order literally uses gold to control its followers (with Grace). This is likely also how Miquella controls people with unalloyed gold, and how he wards the control of the Outer Gods. It is a consummate metaphor, and quite clever of GRRM.
I think Bayle was a hornsent engaged in the older form of Dragon Communion. He's very similar to a Magma Wyrm. It would make the creation of modern dragon communion more poetic.
I think it’s an interesting theory! Plus, the old spirit whose lines I quoted in the beginning is also a Hornsent. 🧐
I can’t help but see the Dragon Communion Knights as a parallel to the Omen Killers, similar to the Wormface Hornsent. They are all enlisted by the Gods to hunt down reviled creatures and repurpose their remains, whilst risking their own humanity in the process.
I see the DLC as a collection of areas telling different aspects of the same story about death. And in the Jagged Peak, I think the story we’re told is one about how quickly out Tarnished can fall into the role of executioner, like Messmer’s Crusaders or the like.
We are enticed by Igon’s fiery obsession and Florrisax’s speeches, but realistically, we have no reason to judge Bayle as evil. The only accounts we have are given on behalf of the one Dragon who would obviously hate him the most.
And based on all the stories of superiority and inferiority in this game - with many item descriptions talking about the drakes being lowborn or lesser kin - I can’t help but think Placidusax and the Dragon Communion Knights are the real villains here.
We are never told why Bayle assailed the Dragonlord in the first place, but the DLC takes great care to tell us a parallel story justifying Marika’s initial revolt against the Hornsent. Perhaps the Drakes, like Omen and many other races, were the victims of oppression, causing Bayle to rebel in a grand clash with Placidusax. Then, assumedly millennia later, we as Dragon Communion Knights arrive, propagandised by the words and rewards of the Dragonlord, for no greater purpose than to simply settle his ages-old racist grudge match.
There’s a theory, based on a video that I unfortunately can’t remember, that the DLC is like a microcosm of the base game. And in this microcosm, I think Bayle kind of reflects Mohg, a lowborn who embraced their lesser status and fostered a great rebellion, before later falling at the hands of a Witless Tarnished. Perhaps there’s also a parallel between Mohg’s enchantment and Bayle’s lasting injuries, both of which have capped off their potential. The Lord of Blood is elusive and hidden from the Order, while Bayle fled before hiding from the Dragonlord. I also think their faces and horns look really similar which is kind of cool.
There's a lot of interesting and compelling ideas here. The Ancient Dragons can't be just made of stone though since they can bleed, unlike the Guardian Golems, Imps and suchlike.
@@Solibrae indeed
Igon is not a silent drake knight, he is a drake WARRIOR!!! His rage is on par with that of the great Horrah Loux!
CURSE YOU BAYYYYLLE!
A note about red lightning: color is very important in Elden Ring, and lightning is inherently gold natured. The Gravel Seal says this was the official reason for legalizing worship of the ancient dragons. So what of red lightning then? The Bolt of Granssax is golden, but turns red when you use the weapon art. In addition, the Crucible Knight armor and gilded greatshield refer to their color as gold tinged with red. If any lightning is not golden in Elden Ring, it would be the cold lightning of the dragonkin soldiers, as the Nox famously embraced silver and shunned gold.
I love the "color theory" used by Fromsoft in Elden Ring. It's something I try to consider in all of my theories since it's such an important aspect that follows a very particular pattern over and over again. The Ancient Dragon I find the most interesting is Lich Dragon Fortissax.
His Red lightning remains in this 'pure' state, while the "Golden" lightning wielded by Godwyn becomes corrupted and discolored. This suggests that Gold alone is not stable and Red is it's strength. Which to me makes total sense since pure gold as a metal is very soft and malleable.
Anyways ~ It's super fascinating! I considered making a color video a while back BUT HawkShaw already has a fantastic one. I'm not sure I'd be adding much more to the conversation. Sorry for rambling! lol
In ancient times, it was harder to remove contaminants from gold, and things like copper would often give it a reddish color. While the ancient dragons have gold as part of their bodies, their lightning seems to use this earlier, more crude attempt at harnessing the power of gold. Also, Placidusax has gold lightning around his arena in Phase 1, but he can't wield it.
I was actually referring to Hawkshaw's color theory. Under this theory, red embodies, among other things, life itself. This could explain why the deathblight lightning is only golden without red.
I think the idea of Bayle originating from the ancient dragons and then rising against them, is very thematically consistent with Elden Ring
I agree! Thanks for watching 😄
Uuuuh drama... Love it!
Perhaps bale was an ancient dragon originally and being an ancient dragon had control the red lightning however, after consuming the hearts of geroll’s spawn he became an ancient dragon equivalent of a magma wyrm which would explain his magma powers and his “unique” appearance. - unlikely but a neat thought:)
Perfect timing
Watching this made me realize the godskins are gaurding a drake body, not an ancient dragon. Maybe drakes were made by a dragon mating with a serpent? And this is why humans become "magma: wyrms, connecting to magma sorcery in mt gelmir.
Otherwise I am so confused as to why a drake head is even there. As a trophy? Then why are the godskins there?
Maybe Bayle is a fusion, thus the twin heart thing, of an ancient dragon and a human (numen/shaman)? Which is why he is arcane scaling and has magma. Could make sense of the horns being curled if he was mixed with a jar shaman? Just winging it here, I have no clue.
It’s just the Drake’s head, there isn’t a body behind there. I think it could be there to signify the first Drake sacrifice in the new Dragon Communion but I’m not sure! It is interesting that the Godskin Duo happen to be there 🧐
Thanks for watching!
Godskins are there because of Malekith who wields destined death.
As they are servants of Gloam eyed queen it's pretty obvious why they are there in the first place.
The more dragon videos the better
Yay! 😁
Here's a comment! Praise be the Algorithm!
As to thoughts, I think people wondering about Bayle having been a mortal that partook of Communion might even be down to something you mentioned yourself, and it made me consider it even having never known the theory before.
Bayle's heart. It looks more like a four-chambered, human heart, stabbled and riddled and consumed with Dragon Stone. It isn't the heart of a Drake. It isn't the heart of an Ancient Dragon, unless they have hidden hearts that we cant access.
Why else would Bayle be a young fiery dragon with a human heart, and a human's ambition, and a human's short sighted aspirations?
Maybe it's shape is merely like many other things in Elden Ring; a metaphor made literal. Bayle has the fiery and rebellious and passionate heart of a human, so his physical heart is in the shape of one. Just like the Magma Wyrms lose their human hearts and become ravenous monsters, having the heart of a Drake, Bayle lacked the immortal and detached heart of a true Dragon.
Heart being both the metaphorical 'emotial and motivating spirit' of someone "he put his whole heart into it" as well as the literal muscle that pumps blood.
Its just a thought, but yeah, with the way reality seems to be structured in Elden Ring, a key part of understanding it may be in the inherent manifestation of metaphors and ideas into physical reality.
Bayle’s heart is such a mysterious aspect about it him. And the line about it one day consuming the one who eats it makes me wonder if his heart is where his soul lies. Thanks so much for watching 😊
Cuuuuurse you baaaaaayle!
You get it! Lol
I’d buy that it was plaxy that was the Vampire. His heads look like they were biting Bayle. You may also notice that Bayles “nest” looks like an arena. Seat sections, and towers (7 of them). We know ancient dragons are snooty at the low born dragons. I think Bayle was the first “Low Born” dragon. Much like Mogh, he was maybe royalty too (as you said, his son). I think Plaxy was ashamed and made his son a sideshow to kill him but Bayle would not relent, he seethed with anger and hate for being subjugated for the crime of being born. I imagine his blood would spill in his cage/arena blooming flowers…..and the discovery of its power would be revealed. Dragon communion may have started before the betrayal. What did he do? He challenged his B#%+# ass dad. “What a weak cowardly king! Come face me yourself!”. The hasty retreat was not Bayle, a lie. It was Plaxy who ran like a cowered. Bayles wings were probably not damaged from their fight, that was done ages before, so he could not escape. Doomed to crawl on the earth…..like a worm. I imagine the ancient dragons who saw this Gladiator tormented all his life, but refuse to yield as inspiring. Then to watch your “king” get spanked and run away…….knowing Bayle could not follow. Pathetic, I’d turn on him too. Plaxy used his people as living wall, to start dragon communion (stone heart), sleep deprives our priestess for thousands of years, and why wouldn’t he cage, torture, and feast on his own ugly kid. I’m the with ghost man, take them all down! That being said…..I also was a communionerer on my first run. And my hunger could not be sated. As soon as I saw dragons I stopped thinking. Ignored all of Miquella’s thing, and found Igon. I didn’t even know about how much the shards reduced damage. I smashed my face against Bayle for hours with 3 hard lol. But I ate his heart! Then realized I couldn’t get both spells……so I started the next journey speed run killed Mogh and Radahn (which was pleasantly easy, thanks to our surgeon, you can get to Mohg really fast). All so I could do it all over again for my second heart! Muahahaha. Yeah, this stuff is addictive. But Bayle can take my body. He deserves it.
Think about it. If Bayle never really got to fly all his life, his lighting and rage would boil the rocks below his belly. He wasn’t born with the ability, he manifested it through decades of torment. Building, and eventually erupting, causing devastation (which may be the sea of magma that hit the Devine towers and caused the sea of magma Tarnished Archeologist suggests)
given your participation in Jack is a Mimic's video about Bayle, I thought you agreed that Bayle was a mimic xD
Oh! Not exactly 😅
Vampire dragon could have been mother of all dragons also dracula meaning is connnect dragon
Who even is vadi vidya? I’m pretty sure you made that up 😊
26:07 Would you still love me if I were a magma wyrm?
Anyone know the background music playing at 5:53? It sounds so familiar, I just can’t place it. 😩🙄
Yay
What if the sharp gravel stone was a red herring lol.
❤
Hidetaka Miyazaki based the Cleric Beast off ov the Wendigo. And yes they are real.
What if bayle is the result of The Crucible think about it every time a god arises The Crucible just will not go The Crucible and its influence keeps trying to take hold it took hold again in created bayle a dragon that has no gravel Stone scales not Immortal but is powerful and strong The Crucible once again was recreating dragons but this time without the immortality
For placidgesax it's bayle
For marika it's the omen
I think that the Crucible fights the influence of the Elden Ring in some way, which is why little bits of evolution and the Crucible peak in no matter what the Fingers, Elden Beast, Gods, or Elden Lord's do. The Crucible is chaotic/primordial life. The Elden Ring and gold are 'ordered' life.
@@liarwithagun well think about it The Crucible is all about a tangled mess of horns Wings fangs and claws even animals that shouldn't have horns do the Rune Bears have gravel Stone and horns in some variation of the species even the deer have horns growing from their bodies somewhere now what fits that description perfectly the dragons but the dragons after being molded by The Crucible became the embodiment of order at one point during the ancient times of the land between in The Crucible took offense to its creation being used to impose order and threw a curveball Bayle
👋
@@Spudiffer 🤭
Igon is bayle.
"... and yet Igon exists." 🤌
After hearing that guy's sound bite so often in so many videos this line in your video cracked me up 🤣
And thank you for sparing my ears!
Loving your analysis so far! Just had to pause to write this :P
"Drake warriors are silent-" "CURSE YOU VILE BAYYYYYYLLLEEEE-" "from their birth, committed to-" "MY SPEARS WILL PEARCE YOUR ACCURSED HIDE, MY WRATH WILL RAIN UPON YOU IN A MIGHTY STORM OF GLORY" "...committed to the cause of their... Igon please I am trying to-"
"HE SHALL RUE THE DAY-"
"*sigh*, well. Igon never really was much for rules.😒"
@@danielled8665 hahaha! I legit lol'd reading your comment.
lol and I finished the video and A Human Justicar assaulted my ears with Igon later in the vid :P
I did, im sorry friend! Betrayed in the end 🥲😂
@@AHumanJusticar 🤣🤣🤣