After working at a freight outfit that had a fleet of 402 B models and now at a flight school that has 29 aircraft with 3 F33A Bonanzas I would say both these landing gear systems work exceptionally well. After mega cycles (thousands) on gear in Bonanza the transmission bolts that secure to airframe will wear into support and hog out the holes if not tight and its recommended the rod ends on aft pushpull tube for nose gear get replaced at a set amount of hrs (you choose) per Beech Aero Club. On the Cessna twins (like you were saying) the round torque tube will unravel like Pillsbury dough boy roll, I have seen that once, there is also a mod for a bigger fork bolt if I remember right. The rigging can't be too tight or will cause binding and cracked parts (use fish scale on down locks). Outboard gear doors also need stainless hinge installed for a one time fix. Thanks for vid :)
Jason thanks for taking the time to make this video. I have a Baron and I learned a lot about the differences. I was in the market for a 310 but ended up with a Baron. In my opinion the 310 is the best looking light twin ever made !!!! Yours is beautiful.
I’ve flown both and did the Twin Cessna Flyer systems course in Defiance Ohio. Totally agree my Baron’s landing gear is much more robust and quicker. Great info. Thx
Outstanding video Jason. Although objectively-speaking Beech system is clearly superior (simpler, better kinematics, fewer parts, more robust, easier to rig and maintain, fewer failures, etc.) I do like the uplock design on the 310. On a Beech, there is an uplock cable and if it breaks with the gear in the up position, your gear will likely not come down. I think less of the chance that happening with the 310 system due to rod actuation of the uplock hooks. The 310 also has much more ergonomic position of the emergency gear handle. In a Beech product emergency gear handle requires quite a contortion from a pilot to reach backward.
up lock hooks are for holding the gear solid during plus and minus g loading to keep strain off the push pull and twisting torque tubes while at high speed cruse
Retired mechanical engineer here. A retract design challenge is routing the push pull rods. The Barron and 310 have different spar locations, wing platforms, pilot position which influenced the solution. What you might see in the 310 linkage IS the simplest solution! It’s not entirely apples to apples. The 310 torque tube, of itself, is not a problem. The torque tube failures likely resulted from detailed weldment design or execution. Despite the $$ bite of replacement, consider the years, if not decades, the torque tubes have been in service. The GA fleet is old; fatigue and corrosion take their toll. Cheers
GA is like a golf bag full of clubs. Sure, using the clubs wears em out some, but when they’re doing nothing while in the golf bag, they wear as much, if not more, by getting banged around all the time getting hauled around the coarse, rolling around in the trunk…. Airplanes, and cars for that matter, can really suffer just standing still, parked out in the elements. A little crack starts and corrosion seeps in and makes it worse. Seals dry out. Dissimilar metals corrosion. Oil falls off exposed steel engine parts, like cams and lifters, and piston rings, and cylinders, and bearings, and…causing rust. Fasteners lose their plating and cause aluminum brackets to corrode. I’m really talking myself out of owning an airplane.
I dont mean to be off topic but does anybody know a trick to log back into an Instagram account?? I was stupid forgot my login password. I would love any tricks you can offer me.
@Landyn Mauricio Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now. Takes quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Great video, thx for taking the time to explain. I just finished rigging mine (C310R) with my mechanic, and it does take some time. There is one bolt that is on the upper part of the overcenter lock link, that if not lubricated frequently, will seize. This link will shear off at its upper attach point on the strut. Tony Saxton of TAS Aviation recommends replacing this bolt, and make sure it gets lubricated frequently. Thx again!
Landing gear components have always looked far too spindly to me, for the stresses they need to accommodate. And then toss in the occasional side load stresses. GA planes look especially spindly, but even on warbirds they don’t seem able to work as well as they do. And work well, they do! At any rate, you’re shattering my dream of owning the rakish 310 - even as an A&P. Suddenly the 140 or 170 seems so much more appealing :) This was a really good episode. And did I hear you correctly that you came up with the animation using PowerPoint? I guess I didn’t really know you could simulate motion in that program. Anyway, yours was quite good - it visually got your points across and that’s what matters. But I also think you did well with it. Nice work, Jason, and thank you for pointing out the Twin Cessna Flyer sight. I already got sucked into a few of the articles by owners and the costs of the parts and repairs they’ve had to pay. Ugh, depressing!
If you want a copy of the "Rig it right" CD I'll sell you mine. It is a poorly digitized copy of a VHS video made at TAS decades ago. It ignores, the older models and has several blatant errors. Their "Rig it right" pamphlet isn't much better. I was a member of the Twin Cessna Flyer for a year and found it to be partial to their advertisers, not the members. The technical questions I posed to the site were never answered. I did not renew. I am an AP/IA that owns and operates a 310. The Cessna twin mechanical gear system is sensitive to proper dimensions and tensions. A hard landing or excessive side loading can possibly bend or distort a component. Similarly a strut not properly operating to full extension prior to retract can jamb a wheel and break an idler arm or bend a push rod, as the gearbox is very strong. A rigging check is mandatory at each annual. With proper tools and experience this is not a huge ordeal. The Baron gear system is not without its share of faults. You are correct, the little spring HELPS pull the lock over center, but the down-lock tensions comes from the gearbox and the length settings of the push rods.
Became a 310 owner a month ago. Knew my 210 systems inside and out. Want to get just as knowledgeable on the 310 as well. Thanks for the great post.
Glad to hear another 310 owner joins the ranks!
After working at a freight outfit that had a fleet of 402 B models and now at a flight school that has 29 aircraft with 3 F33A Bonanzas I would say both these landing gear systems work exceptionally well. After mega cycles (thousands) on gear in Bonanza the transmission bolts that secure to airframe will wear into support and hog out the holes if not tight and its recommended the rod ends on aft pushpull tube for nose gear get replaced at a set amount of hrs (you choose) per Beech Aero Club.
On the Cessna twins (like you were saying) the round torque tube will unravel like Pillsbury dough boy roll, I have seen that once, there is also a mod for a bigger fork bolt if I remember right. The rigging can't be too tight or will cause binding and cracked parts (use fish scale on down locks). Outboard gear doors also need stainless hinge installed for a one time fix. Thanks for vid :)
Jason thanks for taking the time to make this video. I have a Baron and I learned a lot about the differences. I was in the market for a 310 but ended up with a Baron. In my opinion the 310 is the best looking light twin ever made !!!! Yours is beautiful.
Great job! I'm also a 1972 C310Q owner and certainly appreciate all who contribute to the 310 knowledge base. Thanks a bunch!
Thanks for the comment!
Great Job! Thank you for taking the time to put this together. Very helpful.
I'm currently in school to become an A&P and what I've learned so far is that Cessna likes to make things complicated as hell haha
That is the truth. Wait until you need to access something relatively simple and realize you have to take the interior out to get to it! Arrrggg!
@@flyboy98 It’s like working on an Audi!
Reminds me of some of my cars…or any modern car, really. Change oil filter? Step 1: acquire engine hoist.
I’ve flown both and did the Twin Cessna Flyer systems course in Defiance Ohio.
Totally agree my Baron’s landing gear is much more robust and quicker. Great info. Thx
I agree. The Beech system is elegantly simple.
Great overview.
I will watch this over and over, taking notes, drawing sketches amid may purchase the rigging manual
Awesome!
Outstanding video Jason. Although objectively-speaking Beech system is clearly superior (simpler, better kinematics, fewer parts, more robust, easier to rig and maintain, fewer failures, etc.) I do like the uplock design on the 310. On a Beech, there is an uplock cable and if it breaks with the gear in the up position, your gear will likely not come down. I think less of the chance that happening with the 310 system due to rod actuation of the uplock hooks. The 310 also has much more ergonomic position of the emergency gear handle. In a Beech product emergency gear handle requires quite a contortion from a pilot to reach backward.
Thanks! I'm a fan of your video's as well.
up lock hooks are for holding the gear solid during plus and minus g loading to keep strain off the push pull and twisting torque tubes while at high speed cruse
Retired mechanical engineer here.
A retract design challenge is routing the push pull rods. The Barron and 310 have different spar locations, wing platforms, pilot position which influenced the solution. What you might see in the 310 linkage IS the simplest solution! It’s not entirely apples to apples.
The 310 torque tube, of itself, is not a problem. The torque tube failures likely resulted from detailed weldment design or execution. Despite the $$ bite of replacement, consider the years, if not decades, the torque tubes have been in service. The GA fleet is old; fatigue and corrosion take their toll. Cheers
GA is like a golf bag full of clubs. Sure, using the clubs wears em out some, but when they’re doing nothing while in the golf bag, they wear as much, if not more, by getting banged around all the time getting hauled around the coarse, rolling around in the trunk….
Airplanes, and cars for that matter, can really suffer just standing still, parked out in the elements. A little crack starts and corrosion seeps in and makes it worse. Seals dry out. Dissimilar metals corrosion. Oil falls off exposed steel engine parts, like cams and lifters, and piston rings, and cylinders, and bearings, and…causing rust. Fasteners lose their plating and cause aluminum brackets to corrode.
I’m really talking myself out of owning an airplane.
Jason, this is great!! Thanks for developing and sharing.
I dont mean to be off topic but does anybody know a trick to log back into an Instagram account??
I was stupid forgot my login password. I would love any tricks you can offer me.
@Kyler Carl instablaster =)
@Landyn Mauricio Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now.
Takes quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Landyn Mauricio it did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thanks so much, you saved my ass !
@Kyler Carl No problem :)
Great video, thx for taking the time to explain. I just finished rigging mine (C310R) with my mechanic, and it does take some time. There is one bolt that is on the upper part of the overcenter lock link, that if not lubricated frequently, will seize. This link will shear off at its upper attach point on the strut. Tony Saxton of TAS Aviation recommends replacing this bolt, and make sure it gets lubricated frequently. Thx again!
Landing gear components have always looked far too spindly to me, for the stresses they need to accommodate. And then toss in the occasional side load stresses. GA planes look especially spindly, but even on warbirds they don’t seem able to work as well as they do. And work well, they do!
At any rate, you’re shattering my dream of owning the rakish 310 - even as an A&P. Suddenly the 140 or 170 seems so much more appealing :)
This was a really good episode. And did I hear you correctly that you came up with the animation using PowerPoint? I guess I didn’t really know you could simulate motion in that program. Anyway, yours was quite good - it visually got your points across and that’s what matters. But I also think you did well with it.
Nice work, Jason, and thank you for pointing out the Twin Cessna Flyer sight. I already got sucked into a few of the articles by owners and the costs of the parts and repairs they’ve had to pay. Ugh, depressing!
Excellent
If you want a copy of the "Rig it right" CD I'll sell you mine. It is a poorly digitized copy of a VHS video made at TAS decades ago. It ignores, the older models and has several blatant errors. Their "Rig it right" pamphlet isn't much better. I was a member of the Twin Cessna Flyer for a year and found it to be partial to their advertisers, not the members. The technical questions I posed to the site were never answered. I did not renew. I am an AP/IA that owns and operates a 310. The Cessna twin mechanical gear system is sensitive to proper dimensions and tensions. A hard landing or excessive side loading can possibly bend or distort a component. Similarly a strut not properly operating to full extension prior to retract can jamb a wheel and break an idler arm or bend a push rod, as the gearbox is very strong. A rigging check is mandatory at each annual. With proper tools and experience this is not a huge ordeal. The Baron gear system is not without its share of faults. You are correct, the little spring HELPS pull the lock over center, but the down-lock tensions comes from the gearbox and the length settings of the push rods.
Is there an AD that requires the "Rigging" ? Maybe I missed that note...
No AD, just prudent to rig the gear.
Do you have a Link to the 310 rigging DVD??
vimeo.com/573144936/9cdefe5f0e
So the engine beam supports the engine? That means no traditional engine mount coming off the firewall?
Correct. What’s even more amazing is each beam weights around five pounds!
All the engineering way to complex on both aircraft.
Best to rethink both designs
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