As a former HMX pilot that flew the DC Helo routes often, PAT25 was coming off Route 1 and was on Route 4 at the time of the midair. Route 4 hugs the east side of the Potomac River, and the altitude on that Route is 200' AGL and below. Aircraft landing 33 at DCA were very hard to spot at night when on Route 4 due to the cultural lighting. Bottom line, it was always the helicopters responsibility "to maintain visual separation," which the helicopter pilot said he would do to the DCA Tower controller. Very sad day.
The mil helicopter exception carve out at DCA is highly dangerous…especially in the current era where we do not have the same level of training and experience in either commercial or military aviation.
200 agl is very low. Looking at the scaling in the video the helicopter is probably at more like 4-500. Very hard to say for sure, but it seems the altitude was wrong with an inexperienced pilot.
Yes, and the 'major' media keeps reporting the plane collided with the helicopter when the video clearly shows the helicopter flew right into the side of the plane?
Former MedStar 2 pilot here, I used to fly the river routes and south bound you are at 200 ft or below until the Wilson bridge. I passed behind a CRJ 50 circling to land 33 and the wake turbulence rocked us hard at 200 ft above the river.
@@MCMXI1there is a helicopter only DCA tower frequency but the controller transmits on all frequencies simultaneously, airliners can only hear the tower responding to the other traffic.
Why are the stupid army flying in that area? This is clearly a stupid idea. This must be blamed on the Army and all Generals must be put in prison by The end of Friday. Period.
Juan, this last week I landed 3 times on runway 01 DCA with an A321. You are spot on as usual. Let me add some other highlights. My copilot is a current Navy Osprey pilot. I am retired Navy S-3 aviator. The FAA and our company SUPER EMPHASIZES STABILIZED APPROACH CRITERIA. You bet they had 200 % concentration on the most challenging runway approach. Any approach MUST MUST MUST stay middle to south of the north bank of the Potomac, or be classified as a HOSTILE AIRCRAFT. DCA IS ASSUMED THAT ALL AIRCRAFT ARE NAV TRACKED TO THE EXACT MILLIMETER. I have witness many helicopters on the North without any worry about conflicting. The other day, we counter 13 individual helicopters just north of the airport...President/VIP movements. 2 MAJOR POINTS OF EMPHASIS ON THIS CRJ CREW. 1. THEY WERE STABILIZED, ON TRACK, GLIDE SLOPE, AND SPEED. I bet they have flown into DCA countless times. They chose to fly runway 33 which is even MORE challenging,( shorter runway than Runway 01). 2. With the reported winds howling from the Northwest, both pilots' attention were super scope locked on the runway and instruments. No way their focus was anything outside the landing area. NEVER,NEVER, NEVER would they (or myself) expect a helicopter come blasting through their right of way. Glad you mentioned TCAS and the inhibit function. National Media AGAIN is blowing smoke every where. IF an RA would have been alerted...50/50 would the system command up or down????? If down, the results would have been the same. If up command...results???? If the helicopter did have a WORKING OPERABLE TCAS, the INHIBIT FUNCTION would have been active...again no change in the result. Helicopter Crew. With my military and current copilot knowledge: the HAC, helicopter AIRCRAFT COMMANDER, would sit right seat. But this was an instructional hop...the senior INSTRUCTOR pilot would be in the left seat, with the trainee in the right seat. On the departure, he would be pointing out geographic VFR nav references out to the trainee....LOOKING DOWN...NOT OUT AND UP. They said the had the CRJ in sight... was there another aircraft on the runway 01 final, sequenced behind the runway 33 CRJ??? ( 1978 San Diego collision). On cars and airplanes, canopy/cockpit support structures create BLIND SPOTS. LAST: THE HOWLING WIND FROM THE NORTHWEST. IT UPPED THE WORK LOAD ON THE CRJ CREW BY MAGNITUDES. BUT, BUT CHECK THE HELO TRACK...THEY GOT A HUGE TAILWIND COMPONENT INITIALLY, THEN DURING THE CROSSING OF THE CHANNEL, THEY GOT THE HUGE CROSSWIND WIND COMPONENT WHICH CONTRIBUTED TO THE COLLISION. AS ALWAYS JUAN, YOU ARE THE FIRST GO TO PILOT INVESTIGATOR....COULD OF USE A GUY LIKE YOU ON MY JAG INVESTIGATIONS,
"was there another aircraft on the runway 01 final, sequenced behind the runway 33 CRJ???" And there you have it, David. American Airlines 3130 (AL3130) is next for the runway and only. couple of minutes behind the CRJ7 on final. You don't need a crystal ball to work out when PAT25 helo TWICE claimed they saw the CRJ7 and confirmed they would maintain visual separation, they were looking up river at AL3130
@@davidflowers2967 when I flew in the Army, the only aircraft I flew that had TCAS was the C12, the hawks didn’t have them yet. The EC135 I flew for MedStar had all the good stuff. But that did not relieve me of my responsibility of “see and avoid”, the response to to the tower’s call about traffic is or was “ traffic in sight maintaining visual Sep”. The cultural lighting under NVG’s can be difficult to see in that area. I flew that route day and night un-aided single pilot and you had to be on your toes at times.
"They have a procedure, where they can dart across the final approach to this very demanding landing on 3-3 where the crew is highly focused." What could possibly go wrong? Glad you covered this Juan - so much better than anything else out there.
Indeed. I think I would’ve issued traffic to the crj about the helo, but I don’t work at dca tower and don’t know the sop in that area so I’m reserving judgement.
I'm retired ATC also. I don't know if I've been retired to long but it looks to me the controller could have given PAT25 better info. "Do you see the CJR at your 12 o'clock" and make a immediate right turn to heading.... I sure hope it's not the controller any yes on the nightmare.
@ Monday morning QB is to easy. I’ve been on staff QA, and investigated many errors and accidents. Could have, should have , would have is easy after the fact. Lawyers will be crawling up all involved azzes for investigations, depositions, court for the next 10-15 years.
Instead it's dooditditditdooodoodoo BREAKING NEWS! Biden administration perfect aviation safety record SMASHED by Big Bad Orange Man! Federal funding cuts to blame! Women and Minorities worst affected! This just in CNN confirms the helicopter pilot was trans!
No politics, no BS, just facts gathered and presented concisely and plainly by someone who clearly understands the material. You have a new subscriber. Thank you!
@@ryanaines6617 ROFL, well what else were you expecting Juan to do, Ryan? You want a tap-dance, some stand-up comedy--what is it that you want him to do?
NO TCAS HELO IGNORED ATC,...ATC FAILURE, FACT. HELO WENT NO COMM ATC FAILED TO PROVIDE SEPARATION ON PUBLISHED HELO ROUTE HELO FAILED TO CHECK / REPORT HELO ROUTE LANDMARKS FAA FUBAR FAA KNOWS TRAFFIC DENSITY TOO HIGH,...THEY HAVE KNOWN FOR YEARS.
I landed a few minutes prior to the accident. The gusty winds were a hand full at the time. We were all doing Mount Vernon visuals to RWY1. The RJs were offered 33. It took a lot of concentration on airspeed, power and course/glidepath. It was a challenging night.
I'm a helicopter pilot who flies in busy Class B airspace at night frequently. It seems like there are a few things people don't realize about helicopters: 1. It is very common for large, busy airports to have helicopters on a different frequency from the airplanes in order to reduce congestion on the radio. Sometimes the helicopters can hear the controllers talking to the airplanes, sometimes not. 2. Helicopters almost always operate BELOW airplanes, and when airplanes are flying at low altitudes, there are usually routes and procedures in place to avoid conflicts where helicopters might fly through the approach path of an airplane, usually not relying solely on visual separation (but not always). It seems that PAT25 was on one of those established routes, but may have been flying the route incorrectly, which makes even more sense considering it was a training flight. 3. Visual separation can sometimes be easier at night because it is easy to make out the bright lights of an aircraft against the dark sky, especially for helicopters since they are usually looking up to see the airplanes, and not down into the ground lighting. 4. Helicopters often cannot be picked up by airport radar if they are flying too low, which may have contributed to reduced situational awareness of the controller, just trusting the helicopter to be at the correct position and altitude that they were reporting. 5. Helicopters often operate at night under night vision goggles. They have their advantages, but they completely change the way a pilot scans for traffic, and put everything into a green or white color, so you can't identify the navigation lights of an aircraft vs any other lights, and some colors of lights don't show up at all. This means that, if PAT25 was using night vision, their ability to see the CRJ would have been significantly degraded. This is just a guess, but it seems to me that the helicopter may have been higher than they were supposed to be, they were looking up for the airplane when they were actually co-altitude, where the airplane's lights blended in with the ground lighting on the banks of the river, and they thought they saw the airplane, but were actually looking at the wrong one. This is why it is extremely important to actually have an aircraft in sight, and be sure that you are looking at the correct aircraft, before you tell ATC that you have traffic in sight. You can't maintain visual separation with an aircraft you aren't looking at.
The video footage appears to show the heli flying straight and level. The heli seems to t-bone the CRJ700. I don't see, when they're at the same altitude, the CRJ700 blends into the ground lights. It would have visible cabim lights, wing-tip and tail flashers, even if the heli crew couldn't see the landing lights from the side angle.
Thanks for the info. " This means that, if PAT25 was using night vision, their ability to see the CRJ would have been significantly degraded." Why would that be allowed when crossing an active final approach leg?
@@QuicknStraight I've flown helicopters at night over cities. Planes at the same altitude really can disappear into the background lights. Cabin and nav lights aren't bright enough to show up until you are way too close and he was probably cruising at about 140 kts. Strobes are brighter but it can be hard to judge distance especially if they were using night vision goggles.
It's stunning to me that Reagan is routinely relying on "see and avoid" in order to prevent collisions with commercial aircraft on final approach. This was an accident waiting to happen.
All major airports in the US depend on see-and-avoid while aircraft fly visual approaches. Without visual approaches and the reduced separation requirements they allow the US air system is totally inadequate for the daily traffic.
Agree, but really we shouldn't be cramming flights so close that they have to basically be their own ATC. It is nice that pilots try to form a mental picture of surrounding traffic but we shouldn't be relying on that for safety. That should just be one extra layer that we never actually need.
@@charlestoast4051 Many military utilize UHF and all commercial aviation is VHF. When I was flying in the military I was lucky and my aircraft was equipped with both and 99% of the time I would use VHF for SA. UHF was only when I was directly talking to command post or other military aircraft coming up to refuel.
I was on an AA flight and just pushed back at DCA when the ground stop was issued. We deplaned and it was heartbreaking to see the flight attendants comfort one another as they learned of the accident. What a tragedy. Well done, first responders. I remember in the early 80’s, living in Fairfax, when the plane went down in the Potomac. Never thought I’d see this twice in my life.
# METOO but I did take ground school once. Expecting pilots to visual see other small planes at > 100 MPH with background of city lights or mountains or just nothing seems very unreliable. With dirt cheap GPS and Compute and planes pinging their position seems technology could prevent these kind of accidents.
Totally agree, and as a non-aviator also, I find it much easier to understand/follow Juan's analysis/information of some pretty technical data sometimes, that at times sounds like a foreign language, but yet I can still follow so I understand what happened, and the probable cause. It seems to me that Juan does what I call "dumbing it down", since to me he seems to have the ability with his knowledge/insight to realize without quick explanations of this or that, some parts might be harder to follow, especially for non-aviators. Very much appreciated, thank you Juan!🙂
@@jimmieusaf-pol5818there was nothing technical here. Helicopter ran into plane. Most technical things aren’t complicated either. They’re just something new to you not something complex.
@@chrisnoname2725 Understandable, and should have typed technical terms/acronyms in my comment of how Juan explains things...and agree this accident summary was neither complicated or complex.
As someone who used to work at DCA. The tower uses two different frequencies for helicopters and fixed wing, and they are positions are usual split off, meaning two different people are working. From the data it looks like PAT was on route 1 and transitioned to route 4 which goes straight down the river. Route 4 does hug the East bank of the river until the bridge if I remember correctly. Inside of the bridges all helicopters are required to be at 200ft or below. My opinion is that PAT probably had the wrong aircraft in sight or he miss judged the distance between the CRJ and themselves. Sad day in aviation.
@leeclemens879 you can. The problem is cultural lighting. If the CRJ was low enough that it blended into the city lights, it would be nearly impossible to see. Even worse if they were on NVGs.
Thank you for staying up / getting back up to cover this, Juan. I've been dreading this day for years since you first began revealing and laying out the case for how thin the US aviation safety margin had become. Right before I started watching this video, I watched a heartbreaking interview with a husband hoping someone will pull his wife (who was on the flight) out of the Potomac. I was hoping you'd have an update tonight. Thanks for helping us make sense of it, both insiders as well as flying public like myself. I believe your efforts to shine a light and educate have and will continue to make aviation safer again.
I can't imagine what that husband feels and is going thru and probably knows there may not be many survivors. Media was saying the river was partly frozen last week. Hopefully they get some survivors but my gut tells me they might all have perished seeing as I didn't see a single ambulance leave the end of the runway closest to the crash. RIP
I came to your channel to see if you had content on this event yet and, as always, you did not disappoint. I greatly appreciate your analytical approach to this and other significant events over the past many years. Thanks for being a reliable resource in an unreliable world.
None of this information is relevant unless you're a crash investigator as a hobby The bodies aren't even cold yet and you're expecting a detailed breakdown
This is by far the best analysis I have seen on this tragedy. Thank you for being a huge positive influence and not just spewing junk for clicks on UA-cam.
I listened to the full audio, a CRJ landed ahead of the accident aircraft, I wonder if the Blackhawk was referencing that one and not looking down the final? What a terrible accident. Thank you for getting this out so quickly.
Sounds like ATC should have held the helicopter back to just wait the landing … but it seems stupid to allow these helicopters to have a route that crosses that of landing aircraft; they should be route at around the airport, not the close to it
Definitely possible. I feel like the controller’s traffic advisories were inadequate. He should have issued a traffic advisory to the CRJ about the helo. I’m not blaming the controller or the helo pilot entirely. I think multiple things went wrong including the design and location of the procedures in the area.
@ yeah, the only thing I think is that the helo was VFR. I learned today that they run a traffic pattern from the military base just across the Potomac.. as usual will be both informative and heartbreaking to hear the CVR
Thank you for putting this out. People should really be watching this video instead of the mainstream media. Those newscasters have absolutely no idea what they're talking about and are already spreading misinformation about what has happened. A lot of them are trying to piece together what happened based on a 20 second long video from far away and without any of the ATC audio. You're doing great work by keeping us informed with the information that is available at this time.
Asking a crew to visually identify and avoid another traffic AT NIGHT is ludicrous. And here is a story why: During my air force days w were heading out in a 2 ship formation and i was the lead. A few seconds after takeoff i was looking back to where my wingman should be and he was not there. In asked him if everything is ok and he said yes, he has just some trouble catching up - which was odd as we were pretty slow. Turn out, he was trying to get in formation behind the planet Venus for about 30 seconds…
Correction: JBAB (Bolling) is the pink area on your map right across the river from DCA between the river and the expressway. The helo wasn't flying out of Bolling. He was flying a training flight out of Davis Army Air Field (Ft. Belvoir) which is south of there by a few miles. The standard route follows the eastern shore of the Potomac from above DC to stay out of the approach and departures from DCA Runway 1 (main runway). They don't cross the river until well below the bridge. National Park Police and other helos follow a similar route. Of course, with the other runways (including 33), those approaches/departures cross the river near the airport, thus cross this flight route.
One other thing that made it difficult for the jet is that he had just completed fairly sharp left-hand turn, which would’ve made it more difficult to see the helicopter, assuming they were even looking. After that turn the pilot would be laser focused on the final approach. My best guess is that the plane was at about 250 feet of altitude when it was hit
From a former long time helicopter crew flight nurse and then air medical manager for a large helicopter company, this is excellent reporting. Nice job blancolirio.
Can I just take the time to thank Juan for his terrific approach but also all the commenters for being a sensible, rational and inspiring bunch of people.
not a pilot, not a controller but have arrived into DCA on all of the runways more times than I can count. I came here first to get the analysis of this tragedy. Solid work sir thank you.
Mr. Juan Browne (blancolirio) You are the absolute best with straightforward and clear explanation of very complex and technical details. You are the Man, a quote often credited to Albert Einstein "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." Other media should take classes from you.
Yes. After it happened, I asked where is Juan? He got in as soon as he could with his usual common sense. Sad way to end a training flight and a commercial flight that was almost home.
Thanks Juan. I knew you would be up this morning. I tell my friends and family who ask about such accidents to come to this channel for the real deal information. You are a national resource and treasure.
Ex-military controller here and my bet is inattention on a military "training" flight -- something I dealt w/ countless times as an Army controller at a VIP airfield that also housed the flight school for rotor aircraft (Ft. Rucker, AL). Students would jusst sit on the runway as if they were the only people on the airfield and us tower controllers going absolutely bonkers trying to communicate w/ said student but they have their finger on the intercom button, blocking your attempted communications. Can you say "spin 'em"? So frustrating. That UH-60 wasn't paying attention and was flying higher than they should have been, according to SOP for that area. Collision occurred at ~400' when this helo should have been at ~200'. Sad.
The higher altitude of the helicopter does seem to be the crucial factor leading to the collision. And if it's true that air traffic controllers don't have precise information on the altitude of helicopters available to them it wouldn't appear to be an ATC failure. Not sure what DEI has to do with it, as the President is trying to claim.
Thanks for the context V.E. That actually provides some context. It sounds like the FAA will change quite a few procedures (at least I hope they do). They should change the route that military can come into the AFB so they don't conflict at all with commerical traffic. Also they should mandate that all military that could influence other traffic, unless only military comms, should be on the same frequency as commercial. Maybe there is good reason for some separation, but in a case like this where a military plane/helo is close to regular traffic (commercial or private), there should be comms on the same frequencies so everyone can know who all is there.
We''ll probably never know, but the fact that this was a night training flight may have been a factor. The pilot being tested/trained might be more focused on doing well than in flying safely. And that brings up a question others have raised. Why are any training flights being conducted in such a crowded airspace and over a major city. The only positive event in this accident is that the wreckage of both fell into the river rather than on a populated area. Many could have been killed on the ground.
I’m watching this 6hours after the posting and you still have more accurate and complete information than any of the other broadcast news outlets reporting this morning. (6 hours later). Nice job.
Juan knows what he is talking about and where to go to get information he needs because he is trained and lives it every day. National newscasters don't have aviation incidents to speak about...even weekly. Thus, I wish broadcasters were required to have a ppl or commercial written passed in order to even open their mouths regarding information as all they do is spread misunderstanding, ignorance and fear about aviation. Also, not sure about the benchmark here. They are saying last fatality was 2009 but Korean air at San Fran left 3 dead in July 2013. Do they mean just domestic carriers?
@@SJF15 That is the least of Juan's ambitions.... what actually happened (the truth) is becoming buried by BS in all the sensationalist general media Juan fights that on our behalf....
Given the reported 200' ceiling on the Helicopter's route, I think the helicopter was above that. The last data point on the CRJ is 375' with over 469fpm descent. This updates every 16 seconds. The next expected data point would be at 275', still above the helicopter. So, the CRJ very likely was above the Route 4. Not by much, but clearance is clearance.
Most parts of the world (other than America of course) prohibit any kind of visual navigation / approaches at night, even if the weather is the best there can be. I get that some American airspaces benefit from visual rules when the weather permits, because of higher throughput. But then, I wonder how many more accidents / incidents / near misses (due to visual separation being put upon some pilots) will it take for America to also be safer and ban VFR at night in busy airspaces. If it reduces throughput, so be it. Safety over everything else. Including efficiency.
Well, when looking at the web cam video, I have a hard time to believe that one can miss an approaching airplane with full lights on (even from the side) especially if air control already gave orders on how to handle the situation. This must be an unacceptable error of the helicopter crew…. But this is just a guess with little information, I know…. Let’s see what can be found out. I am waiting for the full investigation.
@@silversurfer493 your perspective of the jet and its lights are way different to the one from the helicopter. Imagine a view frm the chopper's perspective. It looks like it could be much more difficult to distinguish frm bckground clutter.
Juan's clear explanation here avoids all the news media speculative spin and wasting your time figuring out what may have happened. Juan understands aeronautics based on years of experience, and cites possible contributory factors best he can, and even interprets the unintelligible ATC recordings for us.
I've flown into DCA about 6 times as the Captain of a 737-800 for a major airline and hated it every time, and never bid to fly that route again. The airspace is extremely restricted with the threat of certificate action against the pilots for crossing certiain boundaries with the US Capital Complex. It is also extremely saturated with air-traffic, and the communications between approach control and tower with arriving and departing aircraft are quick, terse, and there is no time to question an instruction if the pilot doesn't understand or doesn't hear the entire instruction due to other aircraft transmitting at the same time, causing a squeal on the radio that blanks out the instruction. One thing I found amazing that the size of this airport complex is EXTREMELY small given the large amount of aircraft on the ground at any given time and I'm surprised they don't have more incidents of ground collisions due to the close quarters. In my opinion this accident was just waiting to happen. Letting a VFR aircraft transit the traffic pattern at low altitude at night was the reason for this collision. It never should have been allowed.
It will be interesting if indeed it is found that it was pilot error in the helicopter. We will need to wait for the FAA report. Lots of pilots and ATC knowledgeable people commenting here, I’m not one but as a passenger myself I always avoided Regan Airport.
Thank you for dropping your life to get the facts known to date on this disaster. Me & lots of others were waiting & hoping for your no nonsense analyst. ❤
Had been glued to the news for hours. Your assessment cleared up all of the baffling babbles from media and politicians. Thank you immensely as the correct info has cleared up many issues. Your account of comms was exceptionally helpful. No on else had reported PAT25 confirmation xmit.
I love your methodical and fact based break downs! I don’t even bother with the news they mostly throw out opinions and suppositions so you can’t really know what’s going on. You on the other provided great knowledge here. thanks you!
Years ago, as an Army aviator srtationed at Ft. Meade, I flew Rte. 1 into the Pentagon on several occasions with VIPs onboard. Rounding Haines Point we were probably at 100 ft. AGL, NEVER as high as 400 and NEVER at night!
The ability to get accurate and informative news directly from industry experts is possibly the greatest power the internet has given us. A HUGE shout out to creators like Juan and others elsewhere, in all areas of expertise, for sharing your knowledge with the world. And whatever the case here, this is an incredibly tragic loss of life, and I wish peace for their families tonight.
They will not have peace for a long time. Having lost my life partner to breast cancer, it’s been 3.5yrs and sure it’s not as difficult as it was at the beginning. But the grief can still smack you around when it rises up out of nowhere. Deaths via sudden accidents have a different kind of grief and a lot of thoughts about the last thing you said to that person, and why them. I feel for those families because they probably found out via the TV.
The Army released a statement. “We can confirm that the aircraft involved in tonight’s incident was an **Army UH-60** helicopter out of Fort Belvoir, Virginia. We are working with local officials and will provide additional information once it becomes available.” Joint Task Force-National Capitol Region also released a statement. “We can confirm that the aircraft involved in tonight’s incident was an Army UH-60 helicopter from Bravo Company, 12th Aviation Battalion, out of Davison Army Airfield, Fort Belvoir during a training flight,” JTF-NCR media chief Heather Chairez stated.
Thank you so much for your work and for publishing this video. It’s refreshing to hear facts from an unbiased professional vs canned public responses, hearsay and rumors at this point.
my mother has a friend whos son ice skates professionally, and a competition was hosted in Wichita KS, he says he knew at least 7 who where on that flight though at the time of writing names have not been publicly release, he and his community are devastated by this loss, a good majority of them would be heading to a camp meet up in the coming week, heart goes out to all those affected.
My wife is a Flight Attendant at PSA Airlines in Dayton KDAY. She worked this flight last week. She is an IOE Instructor and has been nervous waiting for the names of her fellow crew members. I too am experienced working on CRJ’s in and out of DCA when I was based there back in 2004, 2006-2007. Very tricky airspace.
I just recently stopped flying in & out of DCA 2xs per week. The increased use of 33, the high # of helos and especially military VIP helos, fighting for the airspace always made me nervous.
Flew a right seat on a BA3100 for the ACY-DCA shuttle for the FAA until I aged out in 2019. I can certify the helo traffic. Our cockpit was----" did you see the helo, did you see the helo, did you see helo"....... Very dangerous and I can tell you that side step maneuvre was tight. Wow! And I participated in an FAA study to put more gates in DCA! Imagine! Thank you Blancolirio. Keep up the good work!
This is a very good report on a terrible tragedy. It reminds me of the Air Florida Flight 90 crash in 1982. It took my father so long to get home from work in DC. This was before smartphones and the internet, but we did know that people had been killed on the 14th Street bridge, and we didn't know if my father was OK. One passenger of the aircraft rescued multiple people from the river (which, as in this incident, had ice rafting down it) before he succumbed to hypothermia and drowned. Thank you for your analysis and reporting. Your channel and Sal Mercogliano's "What's Going on With Shipping" channels are so useful when this stuff happens. I don't know why the major news outlets can't do a fraction of what you do, even though I know that you get some of your information from them. They just have so little information content and so little understanding of anything at all, versus the time they take to express it. Dumbing things down might work when the instructor knows much more than the student, but it doesn't work when the newsreader doesn't know any more than the audience, and can't even ask relevant questions of experts. I very much respect what you do.
I remember the 1982 crash. I was walking home from school and one of my neighbors opened her door and shouted to me, There’s been a plane crash!!! That was life before social media. Today she’d probably post on FB. Now I live near Reagan airport and I can watch the planes and army helicopters going up and down the Potomac. There is constant helicopter traffic and the approach to the airport is hard even in good conditions. It’s a miracle we haven’t had a crash here since 1982.
Yes that passenger I believe was Robert E. Silberglied (36), an entomologist at the Smithsonian and previously prof. at Harvard, who inspired my fellow entomology grad student Nick Stone to pursue entomology. A heroic end in the frozen river.
Juan, Outstanding review of this mid-air. Your details are outstanding, factual and very informative. Light years better that any news I viewed on the national media. Thank you for producing this.
Thank you for posting tonight, hearing your calm delivery with your knowledge behind it gives me some relief. Now to wait and see if I know anyone who was onboard.
Juan, thank you for your excellent content as always. A small note on the helicopter route - living in DC we see helicopters in this area all the time, and I believe they were flying a published route (Route 1 to Route 4), which on the helo charts runs down the east bank of the Potomac River, generally east of & parallel to the final for RWY1, but indeed crossing the final for RWY33. The route is typically flown at a very low level (~300’ or below) and is common for training or VIP transport flights from downtown DC or points north, transiting to the south or vice versa. It’s also common to see it flown during active commercial operations at DCA. And I believe they typically do operate on a discrete helo frequency with DCA tower.
I think they have to get rid of this route on the approach to runway 33. This is insanity. They could easily fly it further east and avoid the final approach
@prstoddart early data indicates that they were between 350 and 400, not much of a difference, but it also seems like ATC didn't specify which final the CRJ was on. I would need to listen again, but it was definitely a UH60L and the callsign is specific to that region. That A/C would not have had TCAS, but that may also be a moot point as TCAS does nothing other than warn under 1000.
Hi Mark, here. Retired 35-year airline pilot. THE HELICOPTER ON A TRAINING FLIGHT REQESTED TO MAINTAIN VISUAL (KILLER DECISION) FROM THE JET AT NIGHT (ALSO VFR CIRICLING IN VISUAL CONDITIONS) IN A SEA OF LIGHTS!! WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU TAKE AWAY THE RESPOSIBILTY FROM ATC TO DO THIS??? THIS ALONE WAS POOR JUDGMENT. HAD THIS BEEN DAY VFR OR FULL ON IFR THIS ACCIDENT WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED. THE OUTCOME OF THIS WILL BE NEW FLIGHT RULES AND AIRSPACE CHANGES IN DCA. Here are some factors to consider. Weather severe clear. Helicopters are visual aircraft. They "normally" fly in visual conditions. TCAS (traffic collision and avoidance system) is on ALL airline aircraft and almost certain same for the military and required in this Class of airspace. DCA is one of busiest airports for any pilot. The DCA controllers are very good and VERY busy working lots of targets. DCA pilots are very good. Military Pilots are very good. Seconds count. Pilots depend on controllers to sequence and separate all aircraft that is their job but not so much in VRF (clear and a million conditions like tonight). That means if the controller says do you have the airport in sight and the pilot says affirmative then that transfers the responsibility from the controller to the pilot to maintain separation from all aircraft. So was the American Jet cleared to land. My guess he circled from the runway 1 approach VFR to runway 33. Basically, American is doing this visual maneuver on his own and accepting the responsibility of keeping clear of other aircraft. NO circling approach is done on instruments with ATC taking the responsibility of separation. The approach speed of the American Jet was probably 135 knots. Speed IS IMPORTANT not only for stall speed but the higher the speed the BIGGER the circling arc. This is more of problem in high terrain such as South America. Eastern Airlines B727 crashed due this and other factors. Was the Jet circling into a helicopter route? Crystal clear night flying in dense traffic in big cities in visual conditions is very dangerous because any planes navigation lights disappear like a needle in a haystack as the lights of the plane become invisible against the city lights. It is very hard to KEEP other planes lights in sight especially from behind or from the side. Obviously, the helicopter DID NOT SEE THE JET otherwise there would not have been a crash. Both aircraft should have had a TA in their respective cockpits (traffic advisory yellow target on their scope) this would have alerted the crew of another aircraft in proximity. That target would have turned RED and become an RA resolution advisory on their cockpit screen AND an AURAL warning to climb or descend (very loud). The pilots ARE REQUIRED TO RESPOND AND REPORT THIS TO ATC UNLESS THEY HAVE THE AIRCRAFT IN SIGHT. I did not see either aircraft take evasive action. During my last years of flying, we sometimes were getting these warnings from DRONES, and we became desensitized into responding. Could this be the case here? Many drones were reported lately on the east coast. Were there distractions in the helicopter cockpit that prevented a see and avoid? Were there distractions in the control tower that prevented a controller from turning one or both aircraft? Why was the jet crew not responding to an RA as required? We have a chain of events that happened. Low level helicopter crossing the flight path of a landing jet in a sea of city lights and neither controller, TCAS or pilots could keep two planes from colliding on a beautiful clear night. Further follow up. Let’s cover the “If’s” This accident would not have occurred IF: It was IFR conditions because the jet would have landed on RWY 1. The Jet would have had been 5 to 10 twenty in trail of his preceding traffic and NO helicopter concerns to avoid in VFR conditions. OR The Jet had NOT circled to land AT NIGHT!! Very risky maneuver at night in dense traffic in a sea of lights taking the responsibility to see and avoid all traffic to landing by the pilot at low altitude. This is risky business! OR The Helicopter had not REQUESTED TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPERATION!! OMG!! This took away the controller (redundancy) to control the flight path of these two planes from colliding. The controller’s job was just removed from doing this by the Helicopter pilots request. So now we know the Helicopter AND the Jet were both on SEE AND AVOID VFR visual conditions. Most my mistakes in my career were in VFR not IFR conditions. The end of my career I stayed on instrument approaches as long as possible. In fact, controllers would ask if I had the traffic in sight many miles from the airport and I said no because they want to get rid of me. Had I accepted then I became my own controller and took full responsibility to see and avoid. I preferred to use them and myself to have the redundancy but that took years of experience to realize this is the safest practice to follow. Was a lack of experience on both aircraft a factor? Several things had to happen together for this accident to occur. In my long aviation career, I would say "distractions" were at the top of the list of my mistakes. A series of events happened that lead to this horrible outcome. This was most likely a human factors problem. Were the pilots and controllers fit for duty. Did they have a long duty day. DCA is very stressful and very high work for pilots and controllers. Lots of questions that will be answered in the accident investigation and there will most likely be changes made to prevent this in the future. Very similar to San Diego, CA PSA Flight 182 Sept 25, 1978, tragic midair B727 on final flew into a C172. That will never happen again as the airspace was changed that will not allow those to cross paths regardless of the pilot controller interaction. My guess that will be the outcome here. Just learned that the Gold Top helicopter was on a “Training Flight” in very dense traffic at night VFR. Hikes that is handful. The helicopter pilot “requested to maintain visual” from the jet traffic!! Why? What was the thinking to make this request? It was a killer decision.
Good point. I believe the controller should have issued traffic to the CRJ about the helo, but the helo pilots over confidence in maintaining visual separation most likely comforted the controller and allowed him to prioritize other tasks.
Juan..24k hours and 40+ years in the business,and i thank you for such prompt and thorough analysis of this tragic accident. As you stated,at that low altitude in an urban environment,it is almost impossible to see even a brightly light aircraft,especially if on a constant bearing closing angle..The take...airport operational safety margins must improve!
I'm just a girl who lives on a major flight path near Daytona Beach and I love watching the planes go by but they're always very far apart and for good reason, people crash their cars into each other constantly going down painted straight lines at 45 mph I can't imagine just floating in the skies going hundreds mph and having to deal with bad drivers 😅
Thank you for mentioning the utter difficulty of ascertaining a target visually when VFR and at NIGHT, with that background of city lights. It is very hard to do. Your concise and respectful approach to such a heartbreaking crash is appreciated by aviation and non-aviation citizens alike. THANK YOU.
I wasn’t aware of this collision until I got on the WaPo website this morning. Took a quick look and realized that I needed to check your channel for a concise, informed report by an aviation professional. Thanks for the information and perspective.
I saw the headlines yesterday but deliberately waited until blonco to cover it. News sites are absolutely useless when it comes to aviation or maritime accidents.
Thank you Juan for in this case getting this info out to the public so quickly. Your community appreciates your fervor for factual information reporting of these tragedies.🙏
Mr. Browne I believe you are a very important Voice for Aviation review and safety where the public, whether they fly on private or commercial aircraft or don't fly at all but have friends and relatives who do, can get your independent reasoned opinions on accidents, safety and what questions the public should be asking of governmental authorities. You perform a great service to all people. Salute.
This is what I don't understand. That glide slope has to be fairly consistent. It should be standard procedure to avoid altitude/position that crosses near that glide slope.
@@zepm7184 also weird to see how it changes course 2 x in opposite directions, as if they wanted to first wait for the plane, then aim straight at it...
Your experience & evaluation is clear and concise. Sir, you are the gold standard in your field. Thank you for this. I’m praying for All souls including first responders & rescuers.
It was five years ago that I found Blancolirio while trying to sort out another inexplicable helicopter crash. Thank you Juan for your capable and immediate information and reporting.
I have watched a few interviews with experts and not one mentioned the 1000ft ceiling for TCAS to issue directions. They all specifically said that it would be telling the pilot to pull up or decend etc.
Wasted hours last night on social media for information and on Wichita news sites this morning. Never went to youtube bc I forgot I'd recently subbed here- where there's no agenda. Just facts & clear explanations. So grateful for this channel! ❤
I live in Arlington, less than half a mile from the north end of DCA. It’s crazy to see all of this happening right in my backyard. I literally saw the wreckage out the window of the metro on my way in to work this morning. I’ve flown out of DCA on Republic’s Embraers for business trips many times. I may have actually ridden on that airframe or with that flight crew at some point in the past, and if not I’ve undoubtedly seen it while walking in the park. It’s just shocking. And all because of a training flight for a flying limo.
other than 12th AVN is an active duty unit and not a National Guard unit this is a great explanation. When i was with 12th AVN we never flew that high. Plus, flying fast and low is so much more fun!
Juan, something I heard from the controller to the H60 pilot, which was probably common in there area, but different heard in San Diego flying VFR corridors is the phrase, “Do you have the CRJ #1 on short final to rnway 27?” The controller wants to hear, “ Affirmative” then they will clear you to “ Maintain VFR separation and pass behind #1 CRJ.” We have NAS North Island and LindberghField next to each other and we use the bay transition in between quite often. Transitions from KMYF, KSEE, KRNM are all in class B and if you’re like me in a Light Sport aircraft communications and clarity of other aircraft location while using the VFR corridors are paramount to prevent accidents like this one. I have noticed from other VFR pilots, that most don’t like to venture into these area’s. I found it rather easy if there is another pilot who is familiar and backs you up using VFR corridor charts in SoCal and you train first before making it a habit going through LAX or San Diego. I did this with my CFI who was a Part91 Private Jet pilot.
Thank you, Juan, for getting this report up so fast. Quality analysis and information, something corporate media is not capable of providing. God bless the lost souls.
In the CRJ, descending below 900ft, the TCAS aural warnings are also inhibited. So, no traffic call. But I assume there would have been a red dot for up to 25 seconds on both aircraft's screens. On the other hand, what kind of BS seperation standard is this? And how do you expect a helicopter identify an airfraft type at night based on its lights? He could have been looking at some 737 thinking it's a CRJ. Too many factors but an absolutely devastating tragedy.
I started my flight attendant career with American Airlines in 1998 (MIA base) and moved over to United years ago (Newark base now). This is certainly not about me, but we are all a big family in the sky... it's in our blood. Ironically, I knew very well Kelly Duncan who was a survivor of Air Florida flight 90 that also crashed in this freezing river January 13, 1982. I hate to sound cliche, but prayers to the victims. I am hoping they find passengers alive. Thank you Juan.
I remember that crash so well when I was 18, as I had already been to the US twice, and was soon to be travelling there for 5 months alone. I remember watching a guy just into the freezing water to save at least one woman. I would have to look it up to remember more, but I do remember the frozen river and the news coverage in my country about it. I’m still a regular international traveller still in economy alas, but my cousin was a flight attendant with Qantas long haul for 26yrs, and I had his travel benefits for 2yrs which gave me the great experience of business class. I always buy chocolates/sweets for the crew when I fly because I appreciate the level of safety knowledge you have to keep current, and your hard work. I’m sorry this happened for everyone who lost their lives, it’s a tragedy.
I was just a kid but I remember that accident. I flashed back to those images the moment I heard that there was an accident over the Potomac. I believe it was snowing heavily that night so hopefully the clear weather will mean better outcomes.
Last I heard the fuselage was broken in half with passengers still strapped in their seats on board under water. Source: the police scanner. I hate to say it, but I very strongly doubt anyone survived, and if they did, they're likely in extremely bad shape
It makes sense you feel that kinship. I felt the same after the Columbia breakup despite not knowing the astronauts on board - industry is a family in a way and things like this reverberate across all company boundaries in that industry. My condolences and comfort to you and your colleagues. I hope everyone involved as well as first responders take care of their own physical and mental health following this tragedy ❤
In my mind I can still see the rescue of the few survivors from the 1982 Air Florida crash. That was absolutely horrifying. May the peace of God be with all the families and friends of those killed in this collision. Grieving with the loss of crews and passengers.
I posted you on twitter so people can digest this terrible tragedy as only you can do it Juan thanks for your public service-So sad for all the families of people involved. God rest their souls.
Excellent discussion, as always, Juan - I had wondered about possible confusion with the departing “other” aircraft, but now that doesn’t seem like a possibility. Thanks for clarification!
I listened to the Tower to commercial traffic and tower to helicopter traffic. The Heli could hear the tower to CRJ7 Comms but the CRJ7 could not hear the tower to Heli Comms which were on a different frequency. The Heli announced at Memorial bridge, and acknowledged visual separation. It also seemed like the switch to Rny 33 by the CRJ7 was last minute as Rny 01 was very busy. The Heli flew right into the CRJ7. I've spent many hours at Gravelly Point and know this airspace well. Very sad for all. Condolences to the families.
@@naga2015kkthe last minute switch was requested by ATC, and confirmed by the CRJ. Judging by the CRJ's solid approach, it was a good call. The heli likely either spotted the wrong aircraft or lost the CRJ to the background lights of the city. It's very easy to do at night in a bright cityscape.
@@naga2015kk Mr. Brown explains it in the video. Its a canned approach, it wasn't a last minute decision. Then you ask, out loud, the question we all have (like somehow you are the only one who thought of it). The irony is that question is stated in the video almost verbatim AND many, including Mr. Brown on the video, have hypothesized a potential (and solid) answer. Did you even watch the video? Somebody may need to do a video on YOU!
@@nomagic-t1l Yes but that explanation makes no sense, the plane is higher than the copter so without any lights in the background and both aircraft in opposite direction, there is NO WAY they can't see each other. Even if the plane was flying in a parallel course they would see it from the copter.
Yep -- Mick West just posted an excellent analysis, and according to his 3d visualization he suspects the helicopter may have mistaken a 737 doing an approach to the airport further out for the CRJ on final.
@@MrBugleboyb There are no background lights since the planes are higher than the copter. Only planes in flights... And coming in opposite directions there is no way they couldn't the CRJ7.
Over a million people misinformed so far by this “analysis.” Yeah, you’re right. ATC gave PAT25 the CRJ’s location, altitude, and cleared approach to Runway 33 several MINUTES before the accident, when PAT25 was over by Lincoln Memorial and the CRJ was the ONLY bright light coming up the river at 1200ft and couldn’t have been mistaken for any other aircraft. PAT25 confirmed sight and requested visual separation. If Juan had bothered to listen to the 5 minutes of audio before the crash, it would be pretty obvious that PAT25 could not possibly think the aircraft on approach to Runway 1 was his traffic, because that aircraft was in the approximate same location AA5343 was several minutes earlier when PAT25 supposedly sighted it. Sorry to vent, but it’s so irritating that Juan has a million people thinking that ATC only gave PAT25 vague traffic seconds before impact; that’s a disservice to that controller. And he’s convinced people that experienced military pilots must have gotten confused because “darkness” and “lights” and “NVG.” It’s so much less interesting and more angering and tragic than that.
PAT 25 (Priority Air Transport) is an Active Duty UH-60 based out of Davison Army Airfield, Fort Belvoir VA. They fly fixed routes generally clear of the approach path. Another aircraft just departed and most likely that is the aircraft mistaken for the CRJ. This is not complex. The airliner was on flight path where they were supposed to be. The Blackhawk failed to maintain separation. He may have seen the wrong aircraft or lost it in the lights as the light ground clutter in that area is intense. If both aircraft were on visual flight plans, the helo flying VFR and the jet on a visual approach the control tower technically is no longer responsible for aircraft separation, although it is airspace that requires special training to operate in and around Reagan Airport. I have flown both Jets into Reagan and Blackhawks around Reagan. Sadly this is just a tragic mistake with catastrophic results.
@@charlestoast4051 What's the difference between somebody making a mistake and somebody being incompetent? If they make the exact same mistake but the Swiss cheese doesn't line up and there is no incident, are they still incompetent?
As a former HMX pilot that flew the DC Helo routes often, PAT25 was coming off Route 1 and was on Route 4 at the time of the midair. Route 4 hugs the east side of the Potomac River, and the altitude on that Route is 200' AGL and below. Aircraft landing 33 at DCA were very hard to spot at night when on Route 4 due to the cultural lighting. Bottom line, it was always the helicopters responsibility "to maintain visual separation," which the helicopter pilot said he would do to the DCA Tower controller. Very sad day.
Thank you very interesting insight.
Why have the helicopter route 4 go through an airliner approach to begin with? It's so idiotic.
The mil helicopter exception carve out at DCA is highly dangerous…especially in the current era where we do not have the same level of training and experience in either commercial or military aviation.
200 agl is very low. Looking at the scaling in the video the helicopter is probably at more like 4-500. Very hard to say for sure, but it seems the altitude was wrong with an inexperienced pilot.
PPL here. Does it seem odd that ATC cleared PAT25 into the bravo before he confirmed seeing the CRJ?
More answers and clarity in 7 minutes than any of the major news networks have had.
Thank you for this.
Yes I 100% agree.
Agree was about to leave the same comment.
I do not trust the “News” anymore. I come here to my small independent sources to get information.
I totally agree. Well presented Juan.
Yes, and the 'major' media keeps reporting the plane collided with the helicopter when the video clearly shows the helicopter flew right into the side of the plane?
Retired ATC from DCA here - your description and analysis are spot on.
Hey dragon...do the PAT's in that area transmit on UHF and the controller simulcasts on UHF/VHF or was he on the VHF tower frequency?
Juan's analyses are by far the best on UA-cam. He's knowledgeable and precise.
Former MedStar 2 pilot here, I used to fly the river routes and south bound you are at 200 ft or below until the Wilson bridge. I passed behind a CRJ 50 circling to land 33 and the wake turbulence rocked us hard at 200 ft above the river.
@@MCMXI1there is a helicopter only DCA tower frequency but the controller transmits on all frequencies simultaneously, airliners can only hear the tower responding to the other traffic.
Why are the stupid army flying in that area? This is clearly a stupid idea. This must be blamed on the Army and all Generals must be put in prison by The end of Friday. Period.
Juan, this last week I landed 3 times on runway 01 DCA with an A321. You are spot on as usual. Let me add some other highlights. My copilot is a current Navy Osprey pilot. I am retired Navy S-3 aviator. The FAA and our company SUPER EMPHASIZES STABILIZED APPROACH CRITERIA. You bet they had 200 % concentration on the most challenging runway approach. Any approach MUST MUST MUST stay middle to south of the north bank of the Potomac, or be classified as a HOSTILE AIRCRAFT. DCA IS ASSUMED THAT ALL AIRCRAFT ARE NAV TRACKED TO THE EXACT MILLIMETER. I have witness many helicopters on the North without any worry about conflicting. The other day, we counter 13 individual helicopters just north of the airport...President/VIP movements. 2 MAJOR POINTS OF EMPHASIS ON THIS CRJ CREW.
1. THEY WERE STABILIZED, ON TRACK, GLIDE SLOPE, AND SPEED. I bet they have flown into DCA countless times. They chose to fly runway 33 which is even MORE challenging,( shorter runway than Runway 01). 2. With the reported winds howling from the Northwest, both pilots' attention were super scope locked on the runway and instruments. No way their focus was anything outside the landing area. NEVER,NEVER, NEVER would they (or myself) expect a helicopter come blasting through their right of way.
Glad you mentioned TCAS and the inhibit function. National Media AGAIN is blowing smoke every where. IF an RA would have been alerted...50/50 would the system command up or down????? If down, the results would have been the same. If up command...results????
If the helicopter did have a WORKING OPERABLE TCAS, the INHIBIT FUNCTION would have been active...again no change in the result.
Helicopter Crew. With my military and current copilot knowledge: the HAC, helicopter AIRCRAFT COMMANDER, would sit right seat. But this was an instructional hop...the senior INSTRUCTOR pilot would be in the left seat, with the trainee in the right seat. On the departure, he would be pointing out geographic VFR nav references out to the trainee....LOOKING DOWN...NOT OUT AND UP. They said the had the CRJ in sight...
was there another aircraft on the runway 01 final, sequenced behind the runway 33 CRJ??? ( 1978 San Diego collision). On cars and airplanes, canopy/cockpit support structures create BLIND SPOTS.
LAST: THE HOWLING WIND FROM THE NORTHWEST. IT UPPED THE WORK LOAD ON THE CRJ CREW BY MAGNITUDES. BUT, BUT CHECK THE HELO TRACK...THEY GOT A HUGE TAILWIND COMPONENT INITIALLY, THEN DURING THE CROSSING OF THE CHANNEL, THEY GOT THE HUGE CROSSWIND WIND COMPONENT WHICH CONTRIBUTED TO THE COLLISION.
AS ALWAYS JUAN, YOU ARE THE FIRST GO TO PILOT INVESTIGATOR....COULD OF USE A GUY LIKE YOU ON MY JAG INVESTIGATIONS,
Appreciate your commentary!! Fascinating and respect what pilots, ATC, military do. My dad was ATC, I loved going up in the tower (when we could).
"was there another aircraft on the runway 01 final, sequenced behind the runway 33 CRJ???" And there you have it, David. American Airlines 3130 (AL3130) is next for the runway and only. couple of minutes behind the CRJ7 on final. You don't need a crystal ball to work out when PAT25 helo TWICE claimed they saw the CRJ7 and confirmed they would maintain visual separation, they were looking up river at AL3130
@@djanitatianachecks out 🎯
@@davidflowers2967 when I flew in the Army, the only aircraft I flew that had TCAS was the C12, the hawks didn’t have them yet. The EC135 I flew for MedStar had all the good stuff. But that did not relieve me of my responsibility of “see and avoid”, the response to to the tower’s call about traffic is or was “ traffic in sight maintaining visual Sep”. The cultural lighting under NVG’s can be difficult to see in that area. I flew that route day and night un-aided single pilot and you had to be on your toes at times.
@@djanitatianawow, that’s gotta be it. Kinda like that saying: can’t see the forest for the trees.
"They have a procedure, where they can dart across the final approach to this very demanding landing on 3-3 where the crew is highly focused." What could possibly go wrong? Glad you covered this Juan - so much better than anything else out there.
"dart across the final approach"... at the same altitude? No vertical separation?
Based on that it was an accident waiting to happen. Murphy law.
@@Kaipeternicolas Agreed. Especially at night. Utterly stupid.
It's like the swiss cheese is making itself. Ridiculous.
Its the cheese but they took a drill to it, not enough holes
Retired controller here, very good early explanation and good job putting the data and voice recordings together so quickly.
A controllers nightmare.
Indeed. I think I would’ve issued traffic to the crj about the helo, but I don’t work at dca tower and don’t know the sop in that area so I’m reserving judgement.
@ always
I'm retired ATC also. I don't know if I've been retired to long but it looks to me the controller could have given PAT25 better info. "Do you see the CJR at your 12 o'clock" and make a immediate right turn to heading.... I sure hope it's not the controller any yes on the nightmare.
@ Monday morning QB is to easy. I’ve been on staff QA, and investigated many errors and accidents. Could have, should have , would have is easy after the fact.
Lawyers will be crawling up all involved azzes for investigations, depositions, court for the next 10-15 years.
@@sxqreednovice here. What struck me was how much radio traffic not easy job
i love this guy's delivery when he is breaking news regarding a plane crash. this is how legit news broadcast used to be
Great point!
That's exactly why I came to Juan's channel, to get the real info. Huge fan of blancolirio here.
He does have that Sam Donaldson energy
Look at the title for the video as well, it's not clickbaity. It's honestly refreshing
Instead it's dooditditditdooodoodoo BREAKING NEWS! Biden administration perfect aviation safety record SMASHED by Big Bad Orange Man! Federal funding cuts to blame! Women and Minorities worst affected! This just in CNN confirms the helicopter pilot was trans!
No politics, no BS, just facts gathered and presented concisely and plainly by someone who clearly understands the material. You have a new subscriber. Thank you!
Juan Brown, one of the few, trustworthy accident reviewers on UA-cam
Ya bunch of talking and nothing else.
Who are the others?
Agreed!
@@ryanaines6617 ROFL, well what else were you expecting Juan to do, Ryan? You want a tap-dance, some stand-up comedy--what is it that you want him to do?
Only trustworthy source. Most other are propaganda machine with no knowledge.
Over time your concise updates have saved me hours. Appreciate your work, sir.
I agree, I wish I would have watched this hrs ago.
Very kind
NTSB guy checking in lol
NO TCAS HELO IGNORED ATC,...ATC FAILURE, FACT.
HELO WENT NO COMM
ATC FAILED TO PROVIDE SEPARATION ON PUBLISHED HELO ROUTE
HELO FAILED TO CHECK / REPORT HELO ROUTE LANDMARKS
FAA FUBAR
FAA KNOWS TRAFFIC DENSITY TOO HIGH,...THEY HAVE KNOWN FOR YEARS.
I have never seen a donation of this size on a video ever. Pretty cool
Thank you Juan. You're the FIRST person I thought of when looking for a technical, detailed review of what we know.
You thought of pot marks ?
Same.
Yap
Me too!
@@ryanaines6617 what
I landed a few minutes prior to the accident. The gusty winds were a hand full at the time. We were all doing Mount Vernon visuals to RWY1. The RJs were offered 33. It took a lot of concentration on airspeed, power and course/glidepath. It was a challenging night.
Whoa. Thank you for being a pilot. I’m so fascinated by what you guys do and that’s your daily job.
Why do they give the visual for 01 so much instead of the ILS?
I'm a helicopter pilot who flies in busy Class B airspace at night frequently. It seems like there are a few things people don't realize about helicopters:
1. It is very common for large, busy airports to have helicopters on a different frequency from the airplanes in order to reduce congestion on the radio. Sometimes the helicopters can hear the controllers talking to the airplanes, sometimes not.
2. Helicopters almost always operate BELOW airplanes, and when airplanes are flying at low altitudes, there are usually routes and procedures in place to avoid conflicts where helicopters might fly through the approach path of an airplane, usually not relying solely on visual separation (but not always). It seems that PAT25 was on one of those established routes, but may have been flying the route incorrectly, which makes even more sense considering it was a training flight.
3. Visual separation can sometimes be easier at night because it is easy to make out the bright lights of an aircraft against the dark sky, especially for helicopters since they are usually looking up to see the airplanes, and not down into the ground lighting.
4. Helicopters often cannot be picked up by airport radar if they are flying too low, which may have contributed to reduced situational awareness of the controller, just trusting the helicopter to be at the correct position and altitude that they were reporting.
5. Helicopters often operate at night under night vision goggles. They have their advantages, but they completely change the way a pilot scans for traffic, and put everything into a green or white color, so you can't identify the navigation lights of an aircraft vs any other lights, and some colors of lights don't show up at all. This means that, if PAT25 was using night vision, their ability to see the CRJ would have been significantly degraded.
This is just a guess, but it seems to me that the helicopter may have been higher than they were supposed to be, they were looking up for the airplane when they were actually co-altitude, where the airplane's lights blended in with the ground lighting on the banks of the river, and they thought they saw the airplane, but were actually looking at the wrong one. This is why it is extremely important to actually have an aircraft in sight, and be sure that you are looking at the correct aircraft, before you tell ATC that you have traffic in sight. You can't maintain visual separation with an aircraft you aren't looking at.
What a nightmare
Thank you
Stay safe
The video footage appears to show the heli flying straight and level. The heli seems to t-bone the CRJ700. I don't see, when they're at the same altitude, the CRJ700 blends into the ground lights. It would have visible cabim lights, wing-tip and tail flashers, even if the heli crew couldn't see the landing lights from the side angle.
Thanks for the info. " This means that, if PAT25 was using night vision, their ability to see the CRJ would have been significantly degraded." Why would that be allowed when crossing an active final approach leg?
@@QuicknStraight I've flown helicopters at night over cities. Planes at the same altitude really can disappear into the background lights. Cabin and nav lights aren't bright enough to show up until you are way too close and he was probably cruising at about 140 kts. Strobes are brighter but it can be hard to judge distance especially if they were using night vision goggles.
It's stunning to me that Reagan is routinely relying on "see and avoid" in order to prevent collisions with commercial aircraft on final approach. This was an accident waiting to happen.
Agreed. Even worse that this would be standard procedure at night!?
All major airports in the US depend on see-and-avoid while aircraft fly visual approaches. Without visual approaches and the reduced separation requirements they allow the US air system is totally inadequate for the daily traffic.
I'm surprised it hasn't happened before at night with all the distraction and glare of the ground lights. Looks very dangerous.
They are relying on the helicopters staying below 200ft which is their maximum altitude through this corridor.
@ericmcleod7825 Lack of bandwidth doesn't justify the continued use of a strategy that is totally inadequate (at least imo as a pilot).
It is baffling how commercial and military aircraft can share the same airspace yet not share comm frequencies.
Baffling is a kinder word than I would choose. Insane, perhaps, or idiotic.
Agree, but really we shouldn't be cramming flights so close that they have to basically be their own ATC. It is nice that pilots try to form a mental picture of surrounding traffic but we shouldn't be relying on that for safety. That should just be one extra layer that we never actually need.
@@charlestoast4051 Many military utilize UHF and all commercial aviation is VHF. When I was flying in the military I was lucky and my aircraft was equipped with both and 99% of the time I would use VHF for SA. UHF was only when I was directly talking to command post or other military aircraft coming up to refuel.
That’s about to change…
That’s an interesting video. Almost looks like the chopper was aiming for the plane. I’ll be interested to hear what the black boxes say.
I was on an AA flight and just pushed back at DCA when the ground stop was issued. We deplaned and it was heartbreaking to see the flight attendants comfort one another as they learned of the accident. What a tragedy. Well done, first responders.
I remember in the early 80’s, living in Fairfax, when the plane went down in the Potomac. Never thought I’d see this twice in my life.
As a non-aviator, I find Juan’s content to be accessible and informative. Really appreciate these videos.
Really true, the dam spillway was where I came in and that coverage was top notch.
# METOO but I did take ground school once. Expecting pilots to visual see other small planes at > 100 MPH with background of city lights or mountains or just nothing seems very unreliable. With dirt cheap GPS and Compute and planes pinging their position seems technology could prevent these kind of accidents.
Totally agree, and as a non-aviator also, I find it much easier to understand/follow Juan's analysis/information of some pretty technical data sometimes, that at times sounds like a foreign language, but yet I can still follow so I understand what happened, and the probable cause. It seems to me that Juan does what I call "dumbing it down", since to me he seems to have the ability with his knowledge/insight to realize without quick explanations of this or that, some parts might be harder to follow, especially for non-aviators. Very much appreciated, thank you Juan!🙂
@@jimmieusaf-pol5818there was nothing technical here. Helicopter ran into plane.
Most technical things aren’t complicated either. They’re just something new to you not something complex.
@@chrisnoname2725 Understandable, and should have typed technical terms/acronyms in my comment of how Juan explains things...and agree this accident summary was neither complicated or complex.
As someone who used to work at DCA. The tower uses two different frequencies for helicopters and fixed wing, and they are positions are usual split off, meaning two different people are working. From the data it looks like PAT was on route 1 and transitioned to route 4 which goes straight down the river. Route 4 does hug the East bank of the river until the bridge if I remember correctly. Inside of the bridges all helicopters are required to be at 200ft or below. My opinion is that PAT probably had the wrong aircraft in sight or he miss judged the distance between the CRJ and themselves. Sad day in aviation.
Spot on. My thoughts exactly.
Agree. I think they identified AAL3130 as the CRJ, thought they had plenty of separation.
you can't look out the windshield and see an airplane?
@leeclemens879 you can. The problem is cultural lighting. If the CRJ was low enough that it blended into the city lights, it would be nearly impossible to see. Even worse if they were on NVGs.
@leeclemens879 it's if you've never flown at night in a big city all the surrounding lights make it extremely difficult to pick out other acft.
Best straight talk I have come across, so many folks spouting things they know nothing about. Thanks Juan.
agreed.
This comment section is also refreshing compared to everything I've seen so far.
5 minutes into video and more clear and factual and no bs political spin about DEI than the press conference an hour ago. Thank you.
Thank you for staying up / getting back up to cover this, Juan. I've been dreading this day for years since you first began revealing and laying out the case for how thin the US aviation safety margin had become. Right before I started watching this video, I watched a heartbreaking interview with a husband hoping someone will pull his wife (who was on the flight) out of the Potomac. I was hoping you'd have an update tonight. Thanks for helping us make sense of it, both insiders as well as flying public like myself. I believe your efforts to shine a light and educate have and will continue to make aviation safer again.
I can't imagine what that husband feels and is going thru and probably knows there may not be many survivors. Media was saying the river was partly frozen last week. Hopefully they get some survivors but my gut tells me they might all have perished seeing as I didn't see a single ambulance leave the end of the runway closest to the crash. RIP
He lives in California, this is well before bed time in CA.
I came to your channel to see if you had content on this event yet and, as always, you did not disappoint. I greatly appreciate your analytical approach to this and other significant events over the past many years. Thanks for being a reliable resource in an unreliable world.
Learned more in 7 mins then I did in 7 hrs of news coverage
None of this information is relevant unless you're a crash investigator as a hobby
The bodies aren't even cold yet and you're expecting a detailed breakdown
@@Ktmfan450 His comment is correct.
Except the plane is approaching from the north - not the south. Those two sets of bridges are north of the airport.
@@fred-ts9pb It's autistic
@@richardbeanii6662 Brrrrrt. Wrong.
This is by far the best analysis I have seen on this tragedy. Thank you for being a huge positive influence and not just spewing junk for clicks on UA-cam.
I listened to the full audio, a CRJ landed ahead of the accident aircraft, I wonder if the Blackhawk was referencing that one and not looking down the final? What a terrible accident. Thank you for getting this out so quickly.
Sounds like ATC should have held the helicopter back to just wait the landing … but it seems stupid to allow these helicopters to have a route that crosses that of landing aircraft; they should be route at around the airport, not the close to it
Definitely possible. I feel like the controller’s traffic advisories were inadequate. He should have issued a traffic advisory to the CRJ about the helo. I’m not blaming the controller or the helo pilot entirely. I think multiple things went wrong including the design and location of the procedures in the area.
@ yeah, the only thing I think is that the helo was VFR. I learned today that they run a traffic pattern from the military base just across the Potomac.. as usual will be both informative and heartbreaking to hear the CVR
The controller should have told PAS25, do you see the CRJ at your 12 o'clock.
There were my thoughts exactly as the same thing has happened several times before.
Thank you for putting this out. People should really be watching this video instead of the mainstream media. Those newscasters have absolutely no idea what they're talking about and are already spreading misinformation about what has happened. A lot of them are trying to piece together what happened based on a 20 second long video from far away and without any of the ATC audio. You're doing great work by keeping us informed with the information that is available at this time.
What is mainstream media? Thought that died years ago?
Legacy media aka fake news media
They never do know, yet more than happy to broadcast BS.
This confirms it, the mainstream media outlets HAVE GOT TO GO. and replaced by people like this gentleman
I agree.
Asking a crew to visually identify and avoid another traffic AT NIGHT is ludicrous. And here is a story why: During my air force days w were heading out in a 2 ship formation and i was the lead. A few seconds after takeoff i was looking back to where my wingman should be and he was not there. In asked him if everything is ok and he said yes, he has just some trouble catching up - which was odd as we were pretty slow. Turn out, he was trying to get in formation behind the planet Venus for about 30 seconds…
Lol L almost spit out my coffee 😂
Literal lol
I hear that in New Jersey, Venus is sometimes called a drone!
That’s funny, but also shows how difficult it is to identify aircraft amongst so much light and traffic.
Scott O'Grady? 😂
Correction: JBAB (Bolling) is the pink area on your map right across the river from DCA between the river and the expressway. The helo wasn't flying out of Bolling. He was flying a training flight out of Davis Army Air Field (Ft. Belvoir) which is south of there by a few miles. The standard route follows the eastern shore of the Potomac from above DC to stay out of the approach and departures from DCA Runway 1 (main runway). They don't cross the river until well below the bridge. National Park Police and other helos follow a similar route. Of course, with the other runways (including 33), those approaches/departures cross the river near the airport, thus cross this flight route.
Yeah, I noticed that, too. He got the location right the first time, but then later on, it didn't make sense with the path of the plane.
One other thing that made it difficult for the jet is that he had just completed fairly sharp left-hand turn, which would’ve made it more difficult to see the helicopter, assuming they were even looking. After that turn the pilot would be laser focused on the final approach.
My best guess is that the plane was at about 250 feet of altitude when it was hit
Came here to make that comment. Have you tried emailing Juan so he can clarify in the next update?
Regardless of where the helo was based, it was traveling southeast, at least beginning at a point 7 miles northwest of the crash site.
Regardless, the helo failed to follow ATC instructions.
From a former long time helicopter crew flight nurse and then air medical manager for a large helicopter company, this is excellent reporting. Nice job blancolirio.
Can I just take the time to thank Juan for his terrific approach but also all the commenters for being a sensible, rational and inspiring bunch of people.
a uniquely responsible site, both in the presentations and the comments. grown-ups all round
not a pilot, not a controller but have arrived into DCA on all of the runways more times than I can count. I came here first to get the analysis of this tragedy. Solid work sir thank you.
Mr. Juan Browne (blancolirio)
You are the absolute best with straightforward and clear explanation of very complex and technical details. You are the Man, a quote often credited to Albert Einstein
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
Other media should take classes from you.
Yes. After it happened, I asked where is Juan? He got in as soon as he could with his usual common sense. Sad way to end a training flight and a commercial flight that was almost home.
Juan delivers once again-quick, clear, and straight to the point.
Thanks Juan. I knew you would be up this morning. I tell my friends and family who ask about such accidents to come to this channel for the real deal information. You are a national resource and treasure.
Ex-military controller here and my bet is inattention on a military "training" flight -- something I dealt w/ countless times as an Army controller at a VIP airfield that also housed the flight school for rotor aircraft (Ft. Rucker, AL). Students would jusst sit on the runway as if they were the only people on the airfield and us tower controllers going absolutely bonkers trying to communicate w/ said student but they have their finger on the intercom button, blocking your attempted communications. Can you say "spin 'em"? So frustrating. That UH-60 wasn't paying attention and was flying higher than they should have been, according to SOP for that area. Collision occurred at ~400' when this helo should have been at ~200'. Sad.
The higher altitude of the helicopter does seem to be the crucial factor leading to the collision. And if it's true that air traffic controllers don't have precise information on the altitude of helicopters available to them it wouldn't appear to be an ATC failure. Not sure what DEI has to do with it, as the President is trying to claim.
Thanks for the context V.E. That actually provides some context. It sounds like the FAA will change quite a few procedures (at least I hope they do). They should change the route that military can come into the AFB so they don't conflict at all with commerical traffic. Also they should mandate that all military that could influence other traffic, unless only military comms, should be on the same frequency as commercial. Maybe there is good reason for some separation, but in a case like this where a military plane/helo is close to regular traffic (commercial or private), there should be comms on the same frequencies so everyone can know who all is there.
Bingo
We''ll probably never know, but the fact that this was a night training flight may have been a factor. The pilot being tested/trained might be more focused on doing well than in flying safely. And that brings up a question others have raised. Why are any training flights being conducted in such a crowded airspace and over a major city. The only positive event in this accident is that the wreckage of both fell into the river rather than on a populated area. Many could have been killed on the ground.
Also, no situational awareness on either side as the helicopter and airliner were on different frequencies.
I’m watching this 6hours after the posting and you still have more accurate and complete information than any of the other broadcast news outlets reporting this morning. (6 hours later). Nice job.
The mainstream media is dead
Juan knows what he is talking about and where to go to get information he needs because he is trained and lives it every day. National newscasters don't have aviation incidents to speak about...even weekly. Thus, I wish broadcasters were required to have a ppl or commercial written passed in order to even open their mouths regarding information as all they do is spread misunderstanding, ignorance and fear about aviation. Also, not sure about the benchmark here. They are saying last fatality was 2009 but Korean air at San Fran left 3 dead in July 2013. Do they mean just domestic carriers?
@fly4doe2 I agree with everything you said but I am also I'm talking about all the fake news they spread the mainstream media is dead
Allha Hefajote karun . amin।
News' outlets have reported similar info but their problem is that they pad a lot of their air time with unnecessary "discussion"
I have purposely avoided any and all coverage of this mishap until I could find this summary.
Thank you .
Me too!
Keep on truckin partner
Thanks for getting a video out so quickly. You and Victor are the most dedicated guys in the aviation community and we all appreciate you!
Agreed. This is my go-to channel for all air-accident related content.
The quicker it's out, the more clicks, the more revenue!
@@SJF15
That is the least of Juan's ambitions....
what actually happened (the truth) is becoming buried by BS in all the sensationalist general media
Juan fights that on our behalf....
@@SJF15 even if the information is not acccurate!
Given the reported 200' ceiling on the Helicopter's route, I think the helicopter was above that. The last data point on the CRJ is 375' with over 469fpm descent. This updates every 16 seconds. The next expected data point would be at 275', still above the helicopter. So, the CRJ very likely was above the Route 4. Not by much, but clearance is clearance.
Visual separation at low altitude at night vs a descending plane. What a great idea.
Most parts of the world (other than America of course) prohibit any kind of visual navigation / approaches at night, even if the weather is the best there can be. I get that some American airspaces benefit from visual rules when the weather permits, because of higher throughput. But then, I wonder how many more accidents / incidents / near misses (due to visual separation being put upon some pilots) will it take for America to also be safer and ban VFR at night in busy airspaces. If it reduces throughput, so be it. Safety over everything else. Including efficiency.
Well, when looking at the web cam video, I have a hard time to believe that one can miss an approaching airplane with full lights on (even from the side) especially if air control already gave orders on how to handle the situation. This must be an unacceptable error of the helicopter crew…. But this is just a guess with little information, I know…. Let’s see what can be found out. I am waiting for the full investigation.
"standard procedure"!
This airport is at the wrong place and has to be closed.
@@silversurfer493Identifying one spot of light among hundreds of spots of light is too hard to use it as the only thing that prevents a crash.
@@silversurfer493 your perspective of the jet and its lights are way different to the one from the helicopter. Imagine a view frm the chopper's perspective. It looks like it could be much more difficult to distinguish frm bckground clutter.
The best presentation I've yet viewed, by far. Thank you. Clear, concise.
Juan's clear explanation here avoids all the news media speculative spin and wasting your time figuring out what may have happened. Juan understands aeronautics based on years of experience, and cites possible contributory factors best he can, and even interprets the unintelligible ATC recordings for us.
I've flown into DCA about 6 times as the Captain of a 737-800 for a major airline and hated it every time, and never bid to fly that route again. The airspace is extremely restricted with the threat of certificate action against the pilots for crossing certiain boundaries with the US Capital Complex. It is also extremely saturated with air-traffic, and the communications between approach control and tower with arriving and departing aircraft are quick, terse, and there is no time to question an instruction if the pilot doesn't understand or doesn't hear the entire instruction due to other aircraft transmitting at the same time, causing a squeal on the radio that blanks out the instruction. One thing I found amazing that the size of this airport complex is EXTREMELY small given the large amount of aircraft on the ground at any given time and I'm surprised they don't have more incidents of ground collisions due to the close quarters. In my opinion this accident was just waiting to happen. Letting a VFR aircraft transit the traffic pattern at low altitude at night was the reason for this collision. It never should have been allowed.
It will be interesting if indeed it is found that it was pilot error in the helicopter. We will need to wait for the FAA report. Lots of pilots and ATC knowledgeable people commenting here, I’m not one but as a passenger myself I always avoided Regan Airport.
Juan is the gold standard for aviation incident information.
Thank you for dropping your life to get the facts known to date on this disaster. Me & lots of others were waiting & hoping for your no nonsense analyst. ❤
Had been glued to the news for hours. Your assessment cleared up all of the baffling babbles from media and politicians. Thank you immensely as the correct info has cleared up many issues. Your account of comms was exceptionally helpful. No on else had reported PAT25 confirmation xmit.
I love your methodical and fact based break downs! I don’t even bother with the news they mostly throw out opinions and suppositions so you can’t really know what’s going on. You on the other provided great knowledge here. thanks you!
Years ago, as an Army aviator srtationed at Ft. Meade, I flew Rte. 1 into the Pentagon on several occasions with VIPs onboard. Rounding Haines Point we were probably at 100 ft. AGL, NEVER as high as 400 and NEVER at night!
Sometimes VIPs have to go at night.
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky But then you'd probably fly them on a different route or have ATC clear the airspace.
The ability to get accurate and informative news directly from industry experts is possibly the greatest power the internet has given us. A HUGE shout out to creators like Juan and others elsewhere, in all areas of expertise, for sharing your knowledge with the world.
And whatever the case here, this is an incredibly tragic loss of life, and I wish peace for their families tonight.
They will not have peace for a long time. Having lost my life partner to breast cancer, it’s been 3.5yrs and sure it’s not as difficult as it was at the beginning. But the grief can still smack you around when it rises up out of nowhere. Deaths via sudden accidents have a different kind of grief and a lot of thoughts about the last thing you said to that person, and why them. I feel for those families because they probably found out via the TV.
The Army released a statement.
“We can confirm that the aircraft involved in tonight’s incident was an **Army UH-60** helicopter out of Fort Belvoir, Virginia. We are working with local officials and will provide additional information once it becomes available.”
Joint Task Force-National Capitol Region also released a statement.
“We can confirm that the aircraft involved in tonight’s incident was an Army UH-60 helicopter from Bravo Company, 12th Aviation Battalion, out of Davison Army Airfield, Fort Belvoir during a training flight,” JTF-NCR media chief Heather Chairez stated.
Thank you for this addition. I hope more people vote this up for the clarity it adds.
Nobody needs to know their bullshit report.
Thank you so much for your work and for publishing this video. It’s refreshing to hear facts from an unbiased professional vs canned public responses, hearsay and rumors at this point.
my mother has a friend whos son ice skates professionally, and a competition was hosted in Wichita KS, he says he knew at least 7 who where on that flight though at the time of writing names have not been publicly release, he and his community are devastated by this loss, a good majority of them would be heading to a camp meet up in the coming week, heart goes out to all those affected.
Retired Pilot of Deutsche Luftwaffe here. Prayers to the victims!. Thank you Juan!
My wife is a Flight Attendant at PSA Airlines in Dayton KDAY. She worked this flight last week. She is an IOE Instructor and has been nervous waiting for the names of her fellow crew members. I too am experienced working on CRJ’s in and out of DCA when I was based there back in 2004, 2006-2007. Very tricky airspace.
I’ve flown out of there for years. I sincerely express my condolences to the entire PSA/American company, the crews have been nothing but kind.
Crazy airspace, yes.
Thoughts with your wife as this has to be very difficult.
I just recently stopped flying in & out of DCA 2xs per week. The increased use of 33, the high # of helos and especially military VIP helos, fighting for the airspace always made me nervous.
So sad
Flew a right seat on a BA3100 for the ACY-DCA shuttle for the FAA until I aged out in 2019. I can certify the helo traffic. Our cockpit was----" did you see the helo, did you see the helo, did you see helo"....... Very dangerous and I can tell you that side step maneuvre was tight. Wow! And I participated in an FAA study to put more gates in DCA! Imagine! Thank you Blancolirio. Keep up the good work!
Best analysis I've seen so far; excellent. Say a prayer for their souls... Thanks Blanco
Excellent info..THANK YOU!!!
This is a very good report on a terrible tragedy. It reminds me of the Air Florida Flight 90 crash in 1982. It took my father so long to get home from work in DC. This was before smartphones and the internet, but we did know that people had been killed on the 14th Street bridge, and we didn't know if my father was OK.
One passenger of the aircraft rescued multiple people from the river (which, as in this incident, had ice rafting down it) before he succumbed to hypothermia and drowned.
Thank you for your analysis and reporting. Your channel and Sal Mercogliano's "What's Going on With Shipping" channels are so useful when this stuff happens. I don't know why the major news outlets can't do a fraction of what you do, even though I know that you get some of your information from them. They just have so little information content and so little understanding of anything at all, versus the time they take to express it.
Dumbing things down might work when the instructor knows much more than the student, but it doesn't work when the newsreader doesn't know any more than the audience, and can't even ask relevant questions of experts.
I very much respect what you do.
The air corridor, in that area, is very demanding, and narrow, since commercial traffic is prohibited from the airspace above DC.
Because you’re an intelligent information processor and the world is full of people who are emotion based.
I remember the 1982 crash. I was walking home from school and one of my neighbors opened her door and shouted to me, There’s been a plane crash!!! That was life before social media. Today she’d probably post on FB. Now I live near Reagan airport and I can watch the planes and army helicopters going up and down the Potomac. There is constant helicopter traffic and the approach to the airport is hard even in good conditions. It’s a miracle we haven’t had a crash here since 1982.
Echo from 1982 Palm 90
Yes that passenger I believe was Robert E. Silberglied (36), an entomologist at the Smithsonian and previously prof. at Harvard, who inspired my fellow entomology grad student Nick Stone to pursue entomology. A heroic end in the frozen river.
You are the first to bring-up TCAS
Thank You, RJW, 3 time retired corp. pilot
Juan, Outstanding review of this mid-air. Your details are outstanding, factual and very informative. Light years better that any news I viewed on the national media. Thank you for producing this.
Thank you for your hard work Juan. It's been a horrible night in aviation in the US tonight. I always tell people to wait for your report.
Thank you for posting tonight, hearing your calm delivery with your knowledge behind it gives me some relief. Now to wait and see if I know anyone who was onboard.
Thank you for your lucid explanation.
United States ATC procedures have been worrying me for a long time.
Juan, thank you for your excellent content as always. A small note on the helicopter route - living in DC we see helicopters in this area all the time, and I believe they were flying a published route (Route 1 to Route 4), which on the helo charts runs down the east bank of the Potomac River, generally east of & parallel to the final for RWY1, but indeed crossing the final for RWY33. The route is typically flown at a very low level (~300’ or below) and is common for training or VIP transport flights from downtown DC or points north, transiting to the south or vice versa. It’s also common to see it flown during active commercial operations at DCA. And I believe they typically do operate on a discrete helo frequency with DCA tower.
Usually 1-4 are done a 200 AGL and under
I think they have to get rid of this route on the approach to runway 33. This is insanity.
They could easily fly it further east and avoid the final approach
@bryandevries7210 yep, you are correct - just checked the charts and it does in fact say 200' and below
@prstoddart early data indicates that they were between 350 and 400, not much of a difference, but it also seems like ATC didn't specify which final the CRJ was on. I would need to listen again, but it was definitely a UH60L and the callsign is specific to that region. That A/C would not have had TCAS, but that may also be a moot point as TCAS does nothing other than warn under 1000.
People need to watch your videos first before any Newstream!!!! Thank you Juan for the update 🙏🙏
Hi Mark, here. Retired 35-year airline pilot.
THE HELICOPTER ON A TRAINING FLIGHT REQESTED TO MAINTAIN VISUAL (KILLER DECISION) FROM THE JET AT NIGHT (ALSO VFR CIRICLING IN VISUAL CONDITIONS) IN A SEA OF LIGHTS!! WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU TAKE AWAY THE RESPOSIBILTY FROM ATC TO DO THIS??? THIS ALONE WAS POOR JUDGMENT. HAD THIS BEEN DAY VFR OR FULL ON IFR THIS ACCIDENT WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED. THE OUTCOME OF THIS WILL BE NEW FLIGHT RULES AND AIRSPACE CHANGES IN DCA.
Here are some factors to consider. Weather severe clear. Helicopters are visual aircraft. They "normally" fly in visual conditions. TCAS (traffic collision and avoidance system) is on ALL airline aircraft and almost certain same for the military and required in this Class of airspace. DCA is one of busiest airports for any pilot. The DCA controllers are very good and VERY busy working lots of targets. DCA pilots are very good. Military Pilots are very good. Seconds count. Pilots depend on controllers to sequence and separate all aircraft that is their job but not so much in VRF (clear and a million conditions like tonight). That means if the controller says do you have the airport in sight and the pilot says affirmative then that transfers the responsibility from the controller to the pilot to maintain separation from all aircraft. So was the American Jet cleared to land. My guess he circled from the runway 1 approach VFR to runway 33. Basically, American is doing this visual maneuver on his own and accepting the responsibility of keeping clear of other aircraft. NO circling approach is done on instruments with ATC taking the responsibility of separation.
The approach speed of the American Jet was probably 135 knots. Speed IS IMPORTANT not only for stall speed but the higher the speed the BIGGER the circling arc. This is more of problem in high terrain such as South America. Eastern Airlines B727 crashed due this and other factors. Was the Jet circling into a helicopter route?
Crystal clear night flying in dense traffic in big cities in visual conditions is very dangerous because any planes navigation lights disappear like a needle in a haystack as the lights of the plane become invisible against the city lights. It is very hard to KEEP other planes lights in sight especially from behind or from the side. Obviously, the helicopter DID NOT SEE THE JET otherwise there would not have been a crash.
Both aircraft should have had a TA in their respective cockpits (traffic advisory yellow target on their scope) this would have alerted the crew of another aircraft in proximity. That target would have turned RED and become an RA resolution advisory on their cockpit screen AND an AURAL warning to climb or descend (very loud). The pilots ARE REQUIRED TO RESPOND AND REPORT THIS TO ATC UNLESS THEY HAVE THE AIRCRAFT IN SIGHT. I did not see either aircraft take evasive action.
During my last years of flying, we sometimes were getting these warnings from DRONES, and we became desensitized into responding. Could this be the case here? Many drones were reported lately on the east coast.
Were there distractions in the helicopter cockpit that prevented a see and avoid? Were there distractions in the control tower that prevented a controller from turning one or both aircraft? Why was the jet crew not responding to an RA as required?
We have a chain of events that happened. Low level helicopter crossing the flight path of a landing jet in a sea of city lights and neither controller, TCAS or pilots could keep two planes from colliding on a beautiful clear night.
Further follow up. Let’s cover the “If’s”
This accident would not have occurred IF:
It was IFR conditions because the jet would have landed on RWY 1. The Jet would have had been 5 to 10 twenty in trail of his preceding traffic and NO helicopter concerns to avoid in VFR conditions.
OR
The Jet had NOT circled to land AT NIGHT!! Very risky maneuver at night in dense traffic in a sea of lights taking the responsibility to see and avoid all traffic to landing by the pilot at low altitude. This is risky business!
OR
The Helicopter had not REQUESTED TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPERATION!! OMG!! This took away the controller (redundancy) to control the flight path of these two planes from colliding. The controller’s job was just removed from doing this by the Helicopter pilots request.
So now we know the Helicopter AND the Jet were both on SEE AND AVOID VFR visual conditions. Most my mistakes in my career were in VFR not IFR conditions. The end of my career I stayed on instrument approaches as long as possible. In fact, controllers would ask if I had the traffic in sight many miles from the airport and I said no because they want to get rid of me. Had I accepted then I became my own controller and took full responsibility to see and avoid. I preferred to use them and myself to have the redundancy but that took years of experience to realize this is the safest practice to follow. Was a lack of experience on both aircraft a factor?
Several things had to happen together for this accident to occur.
In my long aviation career, I would say "distractions" were at the top of the list of my mistakes. A series of events happened that lead to this horrible outcome. This was most likely a human factors problem. Were the pilots and controllers fit for duty. Did they have a long duty day. DCA is very stressful and very high work for pilots and controllers.
Lots of questions that will be answered in the accident investigation and there will most likely be changes made to prevent this in the future. Very similar to San Diego, CA PSA Flight 182 Sept 25, 1978, tragic midair B727 on final flew into a C172. That will never happen again as the airspace was changed that will not allow those to cross paths regardless of the pilot controller interaction. My guess that will be the outcome here.
Just learned that the Gold Top helicopter was on a “Training Flight” in very dense traffic at night VFR. Hikes that is handful. The helicopter pilot “requested to maintain visual” from the jet traffic!! Why? What was the thinking to make this request? It was a killer decision.
Thank you SO much, I appreciate the time you took to explain it. The MSM is past useless.
Yea I agree I think it was just running it by the numbers and negligence.
Would an RA be voided
No RA below 1,000’ AGL. TCAS inhibits descent rate below 1,550’ AGL, inhibits descend commands below 1,100’ AGL, and inhibits all RA’s below 1,000 AGL.
Good point. I believe the controller should have issued traffic to the CRJ about the helo, but the helo pilots over confidence in maintaining visual separation most likely comforted the controller and allowed him to prioritize other tasks.
Thank you for your commentary. It was much better than anything on the news outlets
Juan..24k hours and 40+ years in the business,and i thank you for such prompt and thorough analysis of this tragic accident. As you stated,at that low altitude in an urban environment,it is almost impossible to see even a brightly light aircraft,especially if on a constant bearing closing angle..The take...airport operational safety margins must improve!
I'm just a girl who lives on a major flight path near Daytona Beach and I love watching the planes go by but they're always very far apart and for good reason, people crash their cars into each other constantly going down painted straight lines at 45 mph I can't imagine just floating in the skies going hundreds mph and having to deal with bad drivers 😅
Just learned more in 7 minutes than I have in the last few hours.
Ya don't say? In case it's not apparent, this channel is aviation specific, the general news media is not. Two very different audiences.
@@eemgee9185 Agreed. It's not general media nor GA.
@@eemgee9185but too many rely on the news media for this type of accident
@@arthurbrumagem3844 If you rely on the 'news', you are abandoned.
You addressed my questions around TCAS. Thanks.
The deaths of so many, is sad news.
Thanks!
Thank you for mentioning the utter difficulty of ascertaining a target visually when VFR and at NIGHT, with that background of city lights. It is very hard to do. Your concise and respectful approach to such a heartbreaking crash is appreciated by aviation and non-aviation citizens alike. THANK YOU.
I wasn’t aware of this collision until I got on the WaPo website this morning. Took a quick look and realized that I needed to check your channel for a concise, informed report by an aviation professional. Thanks for the information and perspective.
Same.
I saw the headlines yesterday but deliberately waited until blonco to cover it. News sites are absolutely useless when it comes to aviation or maritime accidents.
Right? Because for typical news outlets, this would have been reported as, "A cessna hit another cessna..."
Thank you Juan for in this case getting this info out to the public so quickly. Your community appreciates your fervor for factual information reporting of these tragedies.🙏
Mr. Browne I believe you are a very important Voice for Aviation review and safety where the public, whether they fly on private or commercial aircraft or don't fly at all but have friends and relatives who do, can get your independent reasoned opinions on accidents, safety and what questions the public should be asking of governmental authorities. You perform a great service to all people. Salute.
Thank you Juan, facts not drama, always reliable and knowledgable.
Thanks, Juan Browne.
An update without any nonsense or wild speculations.
Too low for TCAS--was my first sinking feeling.
Or facts
An approved routine of crossing at "Final approach"-altitude that close ? What? 😮😢
Makes me wonder. FAA approved or congressionally approved?
Night time visual in a lit up city/airport like that. Lucky to see your hand let alone other lights on a background of lights.
This is what I don't understand. That glide slope has to be fairly consistent. It should be standard procedure to avoid altitude/position that crosses near that glide slope.
Helicopter corridor there is 200ft maximum so it was higher than allowed.
@@zepm7184 also weird to see how it changes course 2 x in opposite directions, as if they wanted to first wait for the plane, then aim straight at it...
Non pilot, 14-year HEMS crew member here. You presented very good information with the most plausible explanation.
Thank you.
Your experience & evaluation is clear and concise. Sir, you are the gold standard in your field. Thank you for this. I’m praying for All souls including first responders & rescuers.
It was five years ago that I found Blancolirio while trying to sort out another inexplicable helicopter crash. Thank you Juan for your capable and immediate information and reporting.
Thanks Juan. Good clarification about TCAS in this situation.
I have watched a few interviews with experts and not one mentioned the 1000ft ceiling for TCAS to issue directions. They all specifically said that it would be telling the pilot to pull up or decend etc.
Wasted hours last night on social media for information and on Wichita news sites this morning. Never went to youtube bc
I forgot I'd recently subbed here- where there's no agenda. Just facts & clear explanations.
So grateful for this channel!
❤
This is an incredibly informative video and explains what happened without any bias, simply stating the facts. Thank you
I live in Arlington, less than half a mile from the north end of DCA. It’s crazy to see all of this happening right in my backyard. I literally saw the wreckage out the window of the metro on my way in to work this morning. I’ve flown out of DCA on Republic’s Embraers for business trips many times. I may have actually ridden on that airframe or with that flight crew at some point in the past, and if not I’ve undoubtedly seen it while walking in the park. It’s just shocking. And all because of a training flight for a flying limo.
other than 12th AVN is an active duty unit and not a National Guard unit this is a great explanation. When i was with 12th AVN we never flew that high. Plus, flying fast and low is so much more fun!
Juan, something I heard from the controller to the H60 pilot, which was probably common in there area, but different heard in San Diego flying VFR corridors is the phrase, “Do you have the CRJ #1 on short final to rnway 27?” The controller wants to hear, “ Affirmative” then they will clear you to “ Maintain VFR separation and pass behind #1 CRJ.” We have NAS North Island and LindberghField next to each other and we use the bay transition in between quite often. Transitions from KMYF, KSEE, KRNM are all in class B and if you’re like me in a Light Sport aircraft communications and clarity of other aircraft location while using the VFR corridors are paramount to prevent accidents like this one. I have noticed from other VFR pilots, that most don’t like to venture into these area’s. I found it rather easy if there is another pilot who is familiar and backs you up using VFR corridor charts in SoCal and you train first before making it a habit going through LAX or San Diego. I did this with my CFI who was a Part91 Private Jet pilot.
Thank you, Juan, for getting this report up so fast. Quality analysis and information, something corporate media is not capable of providing. God bless the lost souls.
Saw the headline and came straight here for the facts. Well done as always Juan. Your work is a tribute to those lost. RIP.
RIP to all those deceased. Never take a day for granted
Great words
So sad. I flew the RJ on that approach several times, doing the River visual. Definitely demanding approach. Very busy airspace.😢
In the CRJ, descending below 900ft, the TCAS aural warnings are also inhibited. So, no traffic call. But I assume there would have been a red dot for up to 25 seconds on both aircraft's screens.
On the other hand, what kind of BS seperation standard is this? And how do you expect a helicopter identify an airfraft type at night based on its lights? He could have been looking at some 737 thinking it's a CRJ.
Too many factors but an absolutely devastating tragedy.
I started my flight attendant career with American Airlines in 1998 (MIA base) and moved over to United years ago (Newark base now). This is certainly not about me, but we are all a big family in the sky... it's in our blood. Ironically, I knew very well Kelly Duncan who was a survivor of Air Florida flight 90 that also crashed in this freezing river January 13, 1982. I hate to sound cliche, but prayers to the victims. I am hoping they find passengers alive. Thank you Juan.
I remember that crash so well when I was 18, as I had already been to the US twice, and was soon to be travelling there for 5 months alone. I remember watching a guy just into the freezing water to save at least one woman. I would have to look it up to remember more, but I do remember the frozen river and the news coverage in my country about it. I’m still a regular international traveller still in economy alas, but my cousin was a flight attendant with Qantas long haul for 26yrs, and I had his travel benefits for 2yrs which gave me the great experience of business class. I always buy chocolates/sweets for the crew when I fly because I appreciate the level of safety knowledge you have to keep current, and your hard work. I’m sorry this happened for everyone who lost their lives, it’s a tragedy.
I was just a kid but I remember that accident. I flashed back to those images the moment I heard that there was an accident over the Potomac. I believe it was snowing heavily that night so hopefully the clear weather will mean better outcomes.
Last I heard the fuselage was broken in half with passengers still strapped in their seats on board under water. Source: the police scanner.
I hate to say it, but I very strongly doubt anyone survived, and if they did, they're likely in extremely bad shape
It makes sense you feel that kinship. I felt the same after the Columbia breakup despite not knowing the astronauts on board - industry is a family in a way and things like this reverberate across all company boundaries in that industry.
My condolences and comfort to you and your colleagues. I hope everyone involved as well as first responders take care of their own physical and mental health following this tragedy ❤
In my mind I can still see the rescue of the few survivors from the 1982 Air Florida crash. That was absolutely horrifying.
May the peace of God be with all the families and friends of those killed in this collision. Grieving with the loss of crews and passengers.
I posted you on twitter so people can digest this terrible tragedy as only you can do it Juan
thanks for your public service-So sad for all the families of people involved. God rest their souls.
Excellent discussion, as always, Juan - I had wondered about possible confusion with the departing “other” aircraft, but now that doesn’t seem like a possibility. Thanks for clarification!
Thank you, Juan, you are the only one that provided accurate details, not sure how you got it, but definitely better than all other sources.
I listened to the Tower to commercial traffic and tower to helicopter traffic. The Heli could hear the tower to CRJ7 Comms but the CRJ7 could not hear the tower to Heli Comms which were on a different frequency. The Heli announced at Memorial bridge, and acknowledged visual separation. It also seemed like the switch to Rny 33 by the CRJ7 was last minute as Rny 01 was very busy. The Heli flew right into the CRJ7. I've spent many hours at Gravelly Point and know this airspace well. Very sad for all. Condolences to the families.
HOW could they switch runway at the last minute?
and HOW could the heli NOT see that since heli says WE HAVE VISUAL?
@@naga2015kkthe last minute switch was requested by ATC, and confirmed by the CRJ. Judging by the CRJ's solid approach, it was a good call. The heli likely either spotted the wrong aircraft or lost the CRJ to the background lights of the city. It's very easy to do at night in a bright cityscape.
@@naga2015kk They must have been looking at a different aircraft, No way they had visual on the collision CRJ.
@@naga2015kk Mr. Brown explains it in the video. Its a canned approach, it wasn't a last minute decision. Then you ask, out loud, the question we all have (like somehow you are the only one who thought of it). The irony is that question is stated in the video almost verbatim AND many, including Mr. Brown on the video, have hypothesized a potential (and solid) answer. Did you even watch the video? Somebody may need to do a video on YOU!
@@nomagic-t1l Yes but that explanation makes no sense, the plane is higher than the copter so without any lights in the background and both aircraft in opposite direction, there is NO WAY they can't see each other.
Even if the plane was flying in a parallel course they would see it from the copter.
My guess the copter had the wrong aircraft in sight…
Yep -- Mick West just posted an excellent analysis, and according to his 3d visualization he suspects the helicopter may have mistaken a 737 doing an approach to the airport further out for the CRJ on final.
Good guess
Visual identification at night with lots of background lighting is very difficult.
@@MrBugleboyb There are no background lights since the planes are higher than the copter.
Only planes in flights...
And coming in opposite directions there is no way they couldn't the CRJ7.
Or a random light
Pat25 did not come out of Bolling. They were flying down the river from around north. Given traffic call about two minutes prior to the incident.
Over a million people misinformed so far by this “analysis.” Yeah, you’re right. ATC gave PAT25 the CRJ’s location, altitude, and cleared approach to Runway 33 several MINUTES before the accident, when PAT25 was over by Lincoln Memorial and the CRJ was the ONLY bright light coming up the river at 1200ft and couldn’t have been mistaken for any other aircraft. PAT25 confirmed sight and requested visual separation.
If Juan had bothered to listen to the 5 minutes of audio before the crash, it would be pretty obvious that PAT25 could not possibly think the aircraft on approach to Runway 1 was his traffic, because that aircraft was in the approximate same location AA5343 was several minutes earlier when PAT25 supposedly sighted it. Sorry to vent, but it’s so irritating that Juan has a million people thinking that ATC only gave PAT25 vague traffic seconds before impact; that’s a disservice to that controller. And he’s convinced people that experienced military pilots must have gotten confused because “darkness” and “lights” and “NVG.” It’s so much less interesting and more angering and tragic than that.
My heart goes out to you and everyone else in the AAL family Juan.
PAT 25 (Priority Air Transport) is an Active Duty UH-60 based out of Davison Army Airfield, Fort Belvoir VA. They fly fixed routes generally clear of the approach path. Another aircraft just departed and most likely that is the aircraft mistaken for the CRJ. This is not complex. The airliner was on flight path where they were supposed to be. The Blackhawk failed to maintain separation. He may have seen the wrong aircraft or lost it in the lights as the light ground clutter in that area is intense. If both aircraft were on visual flight plans, the helo flying VFR and the jet on a visual approach the control tower technically is no longer responsible for aircraft separation, although it is airspace that requires special training to operate in and around Reagan Airport. I have flown both Jets into Reagan and Blackhawks around Reagan. Sadly this is just a tragic mistake with catastrophic results.
Except tonight, it seems
@@Garythefireman66what?
Tragic, yes, but also incompetent.
@@charlestoast4051
What's the difference between somebody making a mistake and somebody being incompetent?
If they make the exact same mistake but the Swiss cheese doesn't line up and there is no incident, are they still incompetent?
@@jerseyshoredroneservices225 Flying exercises across a busy approach means it was really only a matter of time until this happened.