There's not a ton of Information on the Daemon King, but based on the timeline I piece together in the video, its fair to assume that at the height of his power, he was likely far more powerful than Khorne or Nurgle. Slaanesh didn't exist yet, but we could also assume he was more powerful than them considering they are considered the weakest god. He came to a stalemate with an unshattered tzeentch which is absolutely bonkers to me.
Just a casual enjoyer here but I know a bit of lore on a fair bit of everything, So for a stalemate with fucking Tzeentch now that is some serious 4th dimensional warp fuckery right there.
Are demon princes inherently beneath Greater demons? I thought they were more or less the same and it depended more on the individual demon than how they came into being. I certainly can't see any greater demons outranking Angron, Magnus, Mortarian, Or Fulgrim.
To my knowledge the Daemon King was killed in the conflict. Daemon king is interesting-ish concept but can't have too many godlike daemons mucking about. I mean what is the point of having gods if you can just overthrow them. I'd rather see GW expand on terrors, xenos or warp, of the Halo Stars, terrors that aren't the basic chaos daemon "Gimme your soul" type. Warp has other entities and it would be nice see something new come out of the non-Chaos parts of the Warp.
Nice video , and the channel is great. But there’s one thing that should be considered. Tzeench peak power was at another time . He’s power was ever growing up until the point in which Khorn , Nurgle and Slaanesh got together to atack him. Reason being that Tzeench accumulated power pretty much unchecked until this fight with the other 3 gods. When there was only Khorn and Nurgle . Either the two gods thought he wasn’t such a treat by then or they didn’t have enough power to atack him. So if the the fight was before the birth of Slaanesh then Tzeench was powerful when he battled this demon king . But he was probably considerably weaker than when he was fighting the other 3 chaos gods . Nonetheless it’s still pretty impressive for this demon king to fight Tzeench pre shattering.
I’ve actually got a lot of ideas for you, I was hoping you had a page on Facebook or something I could contact you on. As UA-cam comment section is crap for the things I have in mind.
Imagine being so angry at one of your lieutenants that the only thing you can think of doing is choking the sense out of him, then yeeting him so hard that he becomes an astronomic anomaly.
Yeah it was kind of a clever move from Tzeentch to increase Skarbrand's hubris in order to get him to turn against Khorne. Skarbrand became just to powerful and always defeated the other daemons.
@@Aerowarrier Or maybe a provocation. "Hey look, even this dude can't kill me, you better team up or you stand no chance!" maybe Tzeentch wanted to be dethroned for whatever reason.
Wow! It would be so cool to me if they kept going with the Daemon King and hinted he still is around slowly building back up, like the "5th Chaos God, Malal".
I think it would be more badass if he was a former lieutenant of Malal, but got tired of his idiot lazy master who got himself banished from reality into the void (aka the retcon zone) so he decided to rebuild his power until he becomes strong enough to devour Malal, kill him off for good, and become the new 5th chaos god of Anarchy.
Be a pretty cool conspiracy theory if the Daemon king revived as the emperor when feeling the shamans combining there power. Further empowering the beginning of his new life also would explain a lot of how the emperor knew how to enter the warp, and make deals with the chaos gods.
That really wouldn't explain why the emperor loved mankind then.... What did the guy see mankind at first nothing but as slaves but then grew to love them?
In good old Warhammer Fantasy, there were a Daemon King named Tz'Arkan in the Mallus Darkblade comic/novels. "Mallus, sometimes you scare even me, and I am a demon king..." "Shut up demon"
@@weshammer death to the false gods Death to khorne let his blood and skull rest Death to Tzeench let his skims and plans stop Death to nurgle let his flesh and plague burn 🔥 Death to slannesh let her pleasure and pain die Death to the dark gods let the galaxy burn . For malice War cry of a son of malice follower.
I always assumed that the Yssarile was one of the entities that formed in the warp after the War in Heaven along with Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch (and probably other entities that we dont know about) and these proto-chaos gods battled it out to become masters of their respective domains
@@Prockski none of the chaos gods existed before the war in heaven. Whichever interpretation of this lore you like, the 1 billion year war isn't possible (or it was 1 billion years in weird warp time)
@@Prockski the billion years is from the DAEMONS perpesctive of time which is seperate from the matierel universe. a billion years there could be a second in the materium or the reverse or some twsited paradox etc etc.
@@Prockski was about to say... "ah yes, that timeline really throws a wrench into the theory considering how much the warp enjoys being bound by our rules and perceptions, ESPECIALLY if tzeentch is involved"
This sounds like the God Emperor to me, think about it. So powerful to challenge the Gods of Chaos, his followers built a throne world for him after he was defeated, and his "demons" were able to survive in the Materium. Perhaps this is the future to be for the God Emperor or his previous existence, considering that in the Warp everything is and isn't at the same time.
Maybe an earlier version of the Emperor from another species. For us human it would be just like another daemon but it might as well be a super advanced civilization that tried to defeat chaos on their own and tried to top the strongest.
I really like the idea, but there is a slight gap. This entity is connected to Tzeentch, whereas the God Emperor would more be a new entity not connected to any one of the chaos gods specifically (I think, not entirely sure on the details of his rumored deal with choas). Although the irrelevance of time did make me think.. If the Emperor would ever want to challenge the choas gods he might have to do it facing each one of them at their primes...
I like how there's a possibility that some daemons eventually develop their own sentience that would eventually become more or greater than the other and its on par with the whole chaos concept.
I think I have a nice theory: What if this billion year war between tzeench and the demon King is actually the same event as the shattering of tzeench's staff? After all, a gigantic war that threatened tzeench's godhood itself is a very big showing of his lost of power, and isn't hard to believe he sacrificed is monopoly on splles to win it, getting railed in a billion year war to not get attacked by the combined forces of all other chaos gods does seem like a pretty tzeench thing to do.... Also the fact that slanesh was there during the breaking of the staff whilst this war was before slanesh was born is makes perfect sense because the warp is weird that way
it could also be justified as saying tzeentch was actually close to being killed by yssaril who had the other three choas gods backing him in that ancient fight and tzeentch lashed out with all his power at the last moment like the emperor agasint horus shattering his staff and loosing his pinnacle of power but issuing true death to yssaril. this wouldnt be told by choas as of course it kinda humilates and downgrades tzeentch as it implies he didnt WILLINGLY give up his power to placate and outscheme his brothers by sharing socery with the galaxy he just actually nearly died and saved himself at the last moment.
@@hugo-fr2rs ahh i see, does this only apply to Slanesh or would this be for all the creatures and deities that exist in the warp? And say if a random person or creature enters the warp, do they become apart of this sort of warp theory lol or are they still technically separate in terms of time and creation? I suppose i should start reading the books to be honest. Thank you very much for the reply :)
@@docripvanwinkle4114 ir doesn't just apply to Slanesh, there is no linear time on The warp. but The lore is VERY undefined with this, thought we can assume that non warp creatures don't really feel that everything is happening everytime when they travel through it
Wait. Wes, do you think the Demon King's corpse is what's making the demons be able to exist in reality? Like how the Emperor's corpse is Humanity's spectral lighthouse? Also damn its been a while since I last seen your vids. Glad your channel is growing and you're getting sponsors.
@wseshammer I remember hearing once there was a demon that was guarded by four greater Deamons I think called the screaming child in warhammer fantasy I would love some lore behind him you do amazing work bro my favorite lore channel
There is a chance the Daemon king is the staff, who power grew so great it became an entity in its own right. It would also explain a lot about all of this.
Hi Wes! I just wanted to let you know you are my favorite content producer when it comes to WH40K. You and Luetin09 got me into it, I hadn't really known anything about it before watching your content. Now I'm a huge fan of WH40K's stories and overall universe. I haven't actually played the game itself but am in love with the lore because of you. Stay awesome brother.
@@koalatysleep Never understood this mindset. Who cares if your favorite creators are getting a bag. Isn't the the whole point? Smh. Hater ass losers lol
@@forspartaaa2348 That's a tough one man, because Drach'nyen gets more powerful every time a murder occurs, and there is LOTS of murder in WH40k lol. But I think Yssarile would win in the end, that Daemon is so ridiculously powerful he rivaled a Chaos God at full power before it got weakened. And Drach'nyen got shoved into a sword by the Emperor, so..... yeah lol.
Correct me if I’m wrong but the warp is just manifestations of emotions and other primal forces or representations of certain ideals and goals. So I personally think that the chaos gods are just very powerful deamons that then contorted the warp around themselves. And there being three types of deamons: God tier deamons (chaos gods), god deamons (deamons that are created by god tier deamons) and lastly the deamons that float around and manifest themselves every now and then that aren’t part of a gods roster. This is just a idea comprised of various sources, canon and not, over years and if it’s true then there could be a possibility of a 5th god tier deamon arriving or at least a deamon that grows powerful enough to rival the god tiers and is entirely unaffiliated with the chaos gods.
The thing is the chaos gods are more like concepts to me, like you said the warp is manifestations of emotions. In addition, the gods only gain power during certain times due to certain events (Korne needs war, Nurgle needs plagues, idk wtf tzeench needs....a lot of backstabbing, betrayal and overly complex plots?, Slaennesh presumably needs pleasure and excess gluttony on a mass scale I guess?) so their power is always fluxating. So yeah, they are always super powerful, but at the same time they don't have a 100% power level like a normal character or even demon does.
@@scorpiowarrior7841 can these things breed? I'm new to this or do they create eachother or poof pop out of thin air after enough bad shit have happened and if the can create other deamons why don't they create one that feed of all emotions if winning is their goal or do they need the universe to be in permanent suffering to live themselves. This world is so huge and confusing i don't know where to start lol
This is basically canon. They aren't 'gods' by any standard we'd actually apply the word except power. They're accidents. All of them, including Slaanesh, are an unintended byproduct of *actual* powers fighting each other. Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch exist because of the War in Heaven, the sheer massive amount of psychic power and strife attached to violence, life, and planning during that time. Slaanesh exists because an entire galaxy-spanning empire of incredibly powerful psychics descended into hedonism you can't readily describe. They're accidents, made by the actions of things that *actually* exist. They may in fact be the most powerful avatars of those fundamental forces currently in existence, but enough positive emotion tied to their realms of influence for long enough would unmake them, just as surely.
@@cryingalone7572 The gods are both and not both conceptual ideas. The idea of the Gods is that theya re wholly independant entities within the warp, and are collected emotional thought around a primal emotion. Khorne is anger yes, and fed by extreme acts of hatred, but he is also a god of honor, strength, and valor. All these ideas work around the conceptual idea of acceptance of violence and the needs and reasons behind violence. Just some variations of the anger and hate you need to kill someone are far more potent. As such, Khorne absorbs all these emotions of all species much like a black hole does matter. As for the greater and lesser demons, these are not independantly formed. Instead, they are cast of shards of the Chaos god himself. A demon can only die in 2 ways, that being the Emperor's holy fire, or the Chaos god himself. Skarbrand is indeed a powerful foe, but he is just a piece of Khorne. Should Khorne will it, Skarbrand would be reabsorbed. But he isn't, both because Skarbrand has his uses but also beacuse mortal kind recognizes Skarbrand as his own entity. Khorne is independent, but independence of the chaos god is driven by the rules placed on them by Mortal kind. This is why holy water might have a effect, prayers, and of course, the Holy retribution of that one Cardinal (yes they fight too), and this is beacuse we believe these items hold weight and purpose. Religious ritual and signifigance is a strangea nd indirect way of rewriting or binding a demon to the rules of the ritual performer. There is no actual spell binding a demon, only really your skill with the warp, your faith in the ritual, and of course, the actual accuracies of that ritual (ie. a complete circle, 5 candles 5 inches tall and 2 inches thick, mixed with gold dust as a example). The Gods seek to cause and perpetuate the things that would feed them. Any time a mortal would feel a specific extreme emotion, it causes a bit of a bubble in the warp. And the nature of the emotion flavors that wave of energy. This then is drawn by the chaos god most related to it. As such, demons of that god then take interest in our shiny mortal, and try and goad more of that emotion. This is particularly prevalent to a psyker, but can happen to a regular person too, eventually allowing a lesser demon to begin whispers or other seductions. In time, that demon gluts on the bits of power, and uses it to ever increase the actions of that person, no matter how vile. This creates something of a chain of energy, which ultimately feeds back to the chaos god. A regular person may suddenly make Khorne's skull rune one day without thinking, or the runes of the other gods. This is why it's so insidious, but usually, it's so small it gets absolutely no where, at least, until a number of people in proximity on a world start getting together at pub time, sometimes at the behest of the demon's influences, which turns into a cult. At that point, religious practice enters the fray in some manner, such as a gladiator pit for fight night, or a brothel that satisfies any pleasure, no matter how willing it's working men and women actually are. It only escalates from there, as their souls are corrupted inch by inch, until a actual demon is summoned. At that point, hell is only a few years away.
Wes you and boldemort are my top 2 creaters you give the info in a easy to digest and with good comparisons. While boldemort gives you the point of view of the world and makes you feel what it's like to be there
Nice video , and the channel is great. But there’s one thing that should be considered. Tzeench peak power was at another time . He’s power was ever growing up until the point in which Khorn , Nurgle and Slaanesh got together to atack him. Reason being that Tzeench accumulated power pretty much unchecked until this fight with the other 3 gods. When there was only Khorn and Nurgle . Either the two gods thought he wasn’t such a treat by then or they didn’t have enough power to atack him. So if the the fight was before the birth of Slaanesh then Tzeench was powerful when he battled this demon king . But he was probably considerably weaker than when he was fighting the other 3 chaos gods . Nonetheless it’s still pretty impressive for this demon king to fight Tzeench pre shattering.
It actually doesn't matter if it was pre or post Slaanesh's birth. The 'Chaos Gods' have always had their power rise and fall, but it is always kept in check by the others if one got too strong. It says right in the lore that if Khorn became too strong then the others would put aside their rivalries and put Khorn in check, as they would do with any of the group. Tzeentch has never been out of the reach of their siblings in terms of power, even when Slaanesh was fresh from the birthing event and rampant with the Eldar gods they were not out of the reach of the others. Another thing for YOU to consider is that time is not a static thing, especially in 40k and most certainly where it pertains to the warp. Tzeentch, Khorn, Nurgle and Slaanesh have been there since the beginning. Slaanesh was there, in the warp and active in events throughout history across the universe before their 'birth scream' shattered the Eldar. It was never just Khorn and Nurgle.
Kevin Langley Kevin Langley hahahaha geez man chill out . What’s up with the YOU in capital letters. But if you used as a way to call my attention to that specific part . Well it actually was a smart move . I do comprehend that times is something relative in normal space in 40k universe . As it probably is in ours to . And that the warp is something akin to a 4th or 5th dimension in our universe so therefore time is not linear . But in that case for one there’s no concrete book narrative per say . Because then anything is everything at the same and it’s not . Then how on earth some writer will make a novel in a comprehensive way . I mean if we just assume this point of view standing alone by itself. Now if they do like they do here . Which mix this element with the more linear structure that exists in real space in 40k then ok it’s become way more digestible for the readers. But even if we consider the warp out time to be a ultimate truth in the scenario and of course it is in a way because it’s the warp , right. So my point still valid in a sense that there’s no way to now if Tzeench was at its peak power or not just because he had its staff. It certainly gives the possibility to be the case because him without the staff would be weaker . But it’s only potential to be . And the video gives the idea that Tzeench was at its maximum power when actually it was only a possibility. And that’s what I tried to pass across on the other comment at least partially. Plus one of the reasons the writers probably do love the way the warp is presented aside its appeal to the narrative is because it does give then the freedom to retcon the heck of whatever they feel like it and it would still make sense .
I highly doubt that the Daemon King was stronger then Nurgel or Khorne, but then again, this was most probably during a time where they weren't at their peaks, so I guess it can make sense. But then again, like another UA-camr said, the power scaling of Warhammer is inconsistent. 3 of the gods with infinitely more followers and who stretches across multiple realities being only equal in strength to the newest "born" Chaos god, just makes no sense. I agree with the sentiment, personally.
Probably while the Gods can't experince normal time they can only really power up from their perspective at least for a specific moment where their followers or at least souls consumed are at its height at different times especially during their "Birth" before than they can barely interact with that point in Real Space. (Think of their power ups as being secret levels in a video game they can technically have access to it at anytime but they that level gap is preventing it as in they don't have enough power to influence that point in time in real space than compared to their peaks.)
Seems like he'd one-shot Khorne & Nurgle lol. It took the combined efforts of Khorne, Nurgle & (maybe) Slaneesh to go against Prime Tzeentch; and even then, the shattering of his staff seems to be another "all part of the plan" moment if anything, as opposed to them having actually harmed him. Meanwhile Yssarile did singular battle with Prime Tzeentch for billions of years. At the very least he'd outrank any of the other chaos gods in a 1v1.
What about the Blade of Antwyr, possessed by a daemon so strong that it can't be destroyed or locked away and has to be constantly fought by the most incorruptible Grey Knight ever
I am honesty VERY interested in hearing more about this fabled *nation of Ghul.* The concept of a bunch of warp borne rouge deamons crossing over to the physical universe in order to escape the wrath of the Chaos gods and somehow figured out a way to stay substantial (not go POOF) in a reality most strange to them is extremely intriguing!
I appreciate the fact the you mention when things like Chaos Entities to Space Marine chapters are often introduced in novels and such simply to serve as plot devices or foils and such. Helps to keep the whole meta in perspective.
I remeber seeing your videos on TT a while back and thinking how amazing it would be if you could tell 40K stories in a longer format. I stopped using TT a while back, so colour me surprised when I noticed YT recommending me one of your videos. It makes me gleeful to know you expanded to this platform. Considered me subscribed with the notification on and everything. You are a fantastic narrator
So in the 10 most powerful factions video, you mentioned that the Tau might have created a new chaos god but you needed to talk about that in the future, seems like a natural follow up to this
Chaos having a hierarchy was always a amusing thought,, because by definition...chaos is disorganized, hellish, and random. One of the craziest demons I remember hearing about, was The Drach'nyen that the Emperor fought. It was supposed to be the Demon of the First Murder, and so got powerful over time. the Emperor had to cast him into the warp after turning him into a sword. It's kinda interesting how some demons might raise their way up to the chaos God's level, by playing on the warp like they do.
Agreed. But the Chaos forces we see are usually organised for war in realspace. So ofc they need to have some level of hierarchy and organisation. If they were truly chaotic, they would easily get outflanked, isolated and decimated by even vastly inferior forces
I learned about you from Majorkill and tbh, i didn't really think a creator coming from Tik Tok would amount to much on UA-cam, especially with 40k being your focus. I am glad to say i was wrong. I've never seen anyone cover this topic in 40k lore in such a great way before and all your recent videos seem to be very good! Good job and good luck on the platform!
I don't know if you've covered it already but have you thought about covering The Forgotten God Malal? He doesn't get a lot of love as he is or was the literal god of chaos and the other four feared him
I find it so interesting that you interpret Slaaneshes' birth the way you do. When I read the phrase "that from the Chaos God's perspective Slaanesh always existed," the way I understood it was that the concepts and underlying power always existed. All the elder did was cause them to coalesce into a single entity. There was an emotional Ort Cloud in the warp, and the Eldar's conduct acted as a single point of psychic gravity. The more demented and hedonistic, the Eldar became the denser the psychic ecretion disc until...BAM. A star is born.
As I am finding out right now it's actually difficult to put how I consider the warp into words, but the basic jist is that time is irrelevant. Like all moments in time are all on top of each other. So from the physical perspective we have a time before and after slaanesh, but in the warp those times are on top of each other, there is no begining or end. Slaanesh just is and is not, always and never. IDK it's 1 a.m. and I'm very sleepy 😅
The demon being regarded as a king at least means to me that he may have been mortal potentially an unknown species or perhaps even an old one who fell to chaos considering how powerfully he was described as being.
I watch a bunch of warhammer 40k channels and you got stuff iv never heard of man that was a killer video thanks man very much I love learning the 40k lore especially lore I don't know about
What if the Daemon King's followers were the enslavers and them entering the material world during the war in heaven was just them fleeing the battle with Tzeetch? Just a fun theory that came to mind after watching this.
Maybe you remember my top comment from way back 4ish months ago on one of the realms of slanesh shorts about how you’ll have a million subs before you know it and just how much potential you had, especially with Star Wars and halo lore junkies getting into warhammer. Just wanna say you’re killing it man! Your videos are a blast to watch and it’s been awesome watching you grow. Best of luck to getting to your million! Almost at 400k!!
Fighting with tzeentch for a long time is something very impressive but could also be just one of tzeentches plans to simply amuze himself same way as he plots againts himself all the time
Y'know how it's a real popular theory that the emporer made a deal with the chaos gods to help create the primarchs (for their souls at least); what if those souls belonged to daemon Kings? It would explain why primarchs are fairly powerful. Chaos be like "have your dealing souls; and bind them to a mortal form. Well take half back later. (Tzeentch to himself: whew! Glad to be rid of them Kings)
What if Batman took over the Infinity Gauntlet and together with Gandalf Azhor Azai and Dr. Who went into the Eye of Terror to fight the Ruinous Powers?
What if it can be revived again somehow to challenge the 4 God's of Chaos and break the stalemate between the 4 of them as the true master of the realm of chaos? I mean maybe it can be used to further the Warhammer storyline in the future. You could just imagine the emergence of something much more powerful than the 4 chaos Gods themselves would be pretty entertaining to have Tzeentch, Khorne, Nurgle and Slaanesh band together to defeat something much stronger and powerful than they are.
Awesome video I’m really looking forward to the prisoner of the emerald cave one I just watched a short of him on the Warmasters taverns page and can’t wait for a deep dive into it
They basically are but aren't at the sametime depending on power level a Daemon can act independently from their masters But their souls are so tied to the god they practically have none.
I like the idea that Khorne's challenge was over in moments because of how straightforward Khorne is. The equivalent for Tzeentch is a billion years of mind games and plots.
it might not be a daemon specific thing but specifically Tzeentch , after all he is the god of change, hope, and revolution, i feel like its inevitable for his most powerful servants to occasionally try to overthrow him, its not a matter of loyalty since when you serve the god of treachery betrayal is loyalty , indeed some may have succeeded perhaps "Tzeentch" is just a title taken up by each successor
Thank you for introducing me to this series. I've only watched a couple of your videos and can't get enough of the lore. Also this extra large order of wings kind of mirrors the Emperor doesn't he? I have a question about him but don't want to ask in case it's noobish excitement.
The trouble with entities like the Daemon King is that, like Belakor and Skarbrand, they reach these incredible levels of power through their service to the Chaos Gods only for them to poke their heads above their assigned station before getting smashed down for their hubris and demonstrate that they were nothing but ants compared to the gods all along. And I would say the DK is another example of this; yes he appears mighty, but he doesn't try to supplant Khorne or Nurgle, he tries to take on Tzeentch... which is kinda like fighting your own shadow, since everything the DK did was known to Tzeentch in advance, so the whole war only went on for as long as Tzeentch wanted it to.
an intersting plot idea ( at least for me ) would be that the deamon king actually won the revolt and usurped tzeench so he could take control over tzeench's deamons without much trouble
Wes said he preferred the long(er) form and was getting away from the short form (tik tok style). Hell, most of us love the long form as 40K is just too deep for sound-bytes, lol!
A wild theory just popped into my head. Yssarile is the true name of the Emperor and his armies are the ancestors of mankind. After he was slain, his body was entombed on a planet in our reality and then his perpetual nature awoke sometime after his armies changed into humans and decided to guide them to a future where he could exact his revenge. This would explain why we don't know what he actually looks like or his true name and why he was trying to lessen humanity's reliance on the warp for travel (separating them from and controlling the warp connections to weaken the Chaos Gods).
Wes man your videos are fire my man great work. Keep going ! And have a great week. There is just one thing that I would like to say and it is more in a constructive way I do comprehend that times is something relative in normal space in 40k universe . As it probably is in ours to . And that the warp is something akin to a 4th or 5th dimension in our universe so therefore time is not linear . But in that case for one there’s no concrete book narrative per say . Because then anything is everything at the same and it’s not . Then how on earth some writer will make a novel in a comprehensive way . I mean if we just assume this point of view standing alone by itself. Now if they do like they do here . Which mix this element with the more linear structure that exists in real space in 40k then ok it’s become way more digestible for the readers. But even if we consider the warp out time to be a ultimate truth in the scenario and of course it is in a way because it’s the warp , right. So my point is that there’s no way to now if Tzeench was at its peak power or not just because he had its staff. It certainly gives the possibility to be the case because him without the staff would be weaker . But it’s only potential to be . And the video gives the idea that Tzeench was at its maximum power when actually it was only a possibility. Plus one of the reasons the writers probably do love the way the warp is presented aside its appeal to the narrative . Is because it does give then the freedom to retcon the heck of whatever they feel like it and it would still make sense .
I know he is not all powerful and whatnot but got to say Kirios Fateweaver (prolly spelt that wrong) has a sick background. Got nice time travelling backstory whet he absolutely f*cks with multiple space marine chapters. Always love the content my dude ✊🏾🔥
I mean it makes sense since the warp is much bigger than what is portrayed because the focus is so heavy on the chaos gods that it creates a skewed perception, kind of like an optical illusion. Taking this into consideration there must be many more "daemon kings", which is sad that GW is so against adding more to anything that isn't a space marine.
but to me this demon king is dead... yes, his body... but not his soul... you could say that what makes the emperor so fucking powerfull is that he has the demon kings soul... that was the shaman ritual... xD is a fun theory
I hope we get the Demon King back in some way, maybe, if it might happen after the Emperor Returns, i think that would make some interesting Enemy of my enemy is my friend Plot.
I think a domain of Tzeench that isnt really explored very often is that Tzeench is literally the god of time in warhammer. Because I mean, how do things change? Time moving is the ultimate expression of motion and change which tzeench represents. With a domain like that, you cant really be beat. So tzeench was probably the first chaos god, maybe even a hold over from an older universe. Only nurgle, who's primordial domain of entropy as a result of the forward progression of time is a challenge, the two manifestations of energy and entropy butting heads until the heat death when nurgle can finally claim victory.
demons in their chaotic nature however, is what makes them all the time thought themselves as a superior being than others they tend to be sophisticated and selfish in some reasons but mostly the more they succumb to power the more powerful they've become than their own lesser counterparts thus making them seemed more enhanced than ever so it makes a reasonable explanation regardless. i know i've might've not make sense about the topic or just adding some uncertain additional facts but apparently i'm more open at the topic so i'm giving off my best chance of my opinion. I'd like to know more about conspiracies in w40k it's worth while interesting
its worth mentioning how the word bearers, and the cults before them worship the primordial truth. it could be that the demon king is a embodiment of that. After all, all we really know about the primordial truth is seeing chaos not as four pieces, but as a singular being, if yssarile comprehended that fact, and instead wished to replace his old-patron as a centre piece of that... who knows, we might be looking at a "the dreamer creates the warp, and one of his dreamt creatures obtains divinity by understanding he is a dream" moment.
Consider this: Seeing that a daemon prince becomes a part of the god when it "ascends", imagine if it became so much a part of it that it became intwined with it and then slowly became more of a rogue thought that the god couldnt control that was a part of it but also beyond its ability to reign in. This would be like how certain circumstances give rise to intrusive thoughts which a consciousness cannot often vanquish or bring under control. So in theory, if a daemon prince was crafty and malignant enough, it could basically become a mental illness within the chaos god until he takes over the mind by slowly assimilating parts of it. In the end he would have to have had many of the same tendencies of the chaos god it took over in order to integrate himself so well but also be alluring enough to not want the god to stop him.
When I first found you I subscribed as a meme because I found you low key annoying but your slowly becoming my fav lore channel honesty keep up the great work
Idk if this has been said already and I certainly don’t have a ton of knowledge about 40k but I found it interesting that this particular Demon was a follower of Tzeentch and was around specifically before Slaanesh was created. You said that the only way for a demon to enter the real world is by being summoned or by a supreme act of blasphemy. If time works wonky in the Warp and the Chaos gods always knew of Slaanesh existing/not existing then I think it is at least feasible that the Demon Prince plotted and capitalized on Slaanesh’s birth and used that event to kinda sneak into the real world. He goes dark for years after that not revealing himself and just carving out a little kingdom and by the time anyone notices they find his massive temple chariot. That’s my head canon at least since we don’t know but it makes sense they’d scheme a way out given their prior patron
I don't think this will ever happen but..... this could be a way to set up the return of the Emporer in 40k. The rise of a daemon king so powerful that the 4 cannot take down so they beseech the Anathema for aid in some sort way would be very cool.
The most powerful chaos entity is the Beast, the Great Unnamable one, He Who Must Not Be named. All the other gods are just aspects of this single being, and any who delve into his lore are carried off to the hells of chaos to writhe in eternal debate with the Daemons of Chaos.
He was a daemon prince who called himself King. Yssarile was a daemon-king who attempted to usurp Tzeentch.[1] The Malus Codicium tells the tale of Yssarile, a lieutenant, warlord, or prince of one of the four primary powers of Chaos in a time when there were only three. The daemon-king attempted to usurp his master, a foul sorcerer, in a war of bitter enmity said to have lasted for a billion years. Eventually, Yssarile was defeated - killed outright by his former master.[1] Their king dead, his host fled in terror to seek sanctuary in the material universe. There, they established a capital, Ghül, and six kindred colonies. Ghül itself is said to have been built upon the daemon-king's mausoleum, itself constructed around his barque.[1]
If the demon king's followers were able to live in the physical world, does that suggest that his followers were all demon princes/ascended mortals? Or maybe the title "king" is literal, and he's a greater demon who was literally the king of a mortal kingdom or empire. Like if the emperor was actually a demon, and literally king of the imperium. The imperium is already fighting a long war against chaos after the emperor made shady deals with the chaos gods, and the emperor is already able to rival the chaos gods in the warp. It's basically a "what if" story about if the emperor was a straight up actual demon trying to become a new god, and that's a dope storyline
There's not a ton of Information on the Daemon King, but based on the timeline I piece together in the video, its fair to assume that at the height of his power, he was likely far more powerful than Khorne or Nurgle. Slaanesh didn't exist yet, but we could also assume he was more powerful than them considering they are considered the weakest god. He came to a stalemate with an unshattered tzeentch which is absolutely bonkers to me.
Just a casual enjoyer here but I know a bit of lore on a fair bit of everything, So for a stalemate with fucking Tzeentch now that is some serious 4th dimensional warp fuckery right there.
Are demon princes inherently beneath Greater demons? I thought they were more or less the same and it depended more on the individual demon than how they came into being. I certainly can't see any greater demons outranking Angron, Magnus, Mortarian, Or Fulgrim.
To my knowledge the Daemon King was killed in the conflict. Daemon king is interesting-ish concept but can't have too many godlike daemons mucking about. I mean what is the point of having gods if you can just overthrow them.
I'd rather see GW expand on terrors, xenos or warp, of the Halo Stars, terrors that aren't the basic chaos daemon "Gimme your soul" type. Warp has other entities and it would be nice see something new come out of the non-Chaos parts of the Warp.
Nice video , and the channel is great.
But there’s one thing that should be considered.
Tzeench peak power was at another time .
He’s power was ever growing up until the point in which Khorn , Nurgle and Slaanesh got together to atack him.
Reason being that Tzeench accumulated power pretty much unchecked until this fight with the other 3 gods.
When there was only Khorn and Nurgle .
Either the two gods thought he wasn’t such a treat by then or they didn’t have enough power to atack him.
So if the the fight was before the birth of Slaanesh then Tzeench was powerful when he battled this demon king .
But he was probably considerably weaker than when he was fighting the other 3 chaos gods .
Nonetheless it’s still pretty impressive for this demon king to fight Tzeench pre shattering.
I’ve actually got a lot of ideas for you, I was hoping you had a page on Facebook or something I could contact you on. As UA-cam comment section is crap for the things I have in mind.
Imagine being so angry at one of your lieutenants that the only thing you can think of doing is choking the sense out of him, then yeeting him so hard that he becomes an astronomic anomaly.
Yeah it was kind of a clever move from Tzeentch to increase Skarbrand's hubris in order to get him to turn against Khorne.
Skarbrand became just to powerful and always defeated the other daemons.
literally lmfao
Just as planned
i imagined it like something like homer chocking bart.
Great now all i can think of is khorne making a huge homer "yeeet!" When he throws him 🤣
While it is very impressive that he fought Tzeentch for that long, it was Tzeentch. The whole thing could have been a massive deception.
Or part of tzeentchs plan
Hell it might have been literally just to keep his siblings from trying to team up and kill him over the power of the staff lol
@@Aerowarrier Or maybe a provocation. "Hey look, even this dude can't kill me, you better team up or you stand no chance!" maybe Tzeentch wanted to be dethroned for whatever reason.
@@Sinclairelim it's fucking Tzeensch, there is no reasons and at the same time an infinite number of reasons
@@kira68200
JUST AS PLANNED! NYAHAHAHAHAA
Wow! It would be so cool to me if they kept going with the Daemon King and hinted he still is around slowly building back up, like the "5th Chaos God, Malal".
I think it would be more badass if he was a former lieutenant of Malal, but got tired of his idiot lazy master who got himself banished from reality into the void (aka the retcon zone) so he decided to rebuild his power until he becomes strong enough to devour Malal, kill him off for good, and become the new 5th chaos god of Anarchy.
Definitely isn't Malice.
@@frizzank Then what is it?
@@frizzank never mind, I remembered that it was god of Chaos and Anarchy, I’ll fix it.
Malal just seems like the god of depression man, he just want everyone including himself to die
Be a pretty cool conspiracy theory if the Daemon king revived as the emperor when feeling the shamans combining there power. Further empowering the beginning of his new life also would explain a lot of how the emperor knew how to enter the warp, and make deals with the chaos gods.
It would be really lame if they came out and said that’s the case
@@Dakblasta it would be really lame if that were true, but I'll be damned if it isn't fun to come up with theories like.
It is really lame if that came to fruition
That really wouldn't explain why the emperor loved mankind then.... What did the guy see mankind at first nothing but as slaves but then grew to love them?
Yes mister inquisitor, I want to report a heretic.
So glad you switched to longer videos, hopefully your numbers will continue to rise!
he has a nice voice, good vibe and looks like a fellow nerd. Ye. Numbers will grow.
Anything that has the title stronger than the chaos gods has my 100% attention
Good. That means the God emperor if mankind has your undivided attention.
Good
@@Storiaron Amen
Emperor couldn't even unify Terra by himself
@@christiandauz3742 its all the god emperor's plan heretic
@@dogge4649
Sure... even though he couldn't even beat Pharaa'gueotla on his own
In good old Warhammer Fantasy, there were a Daemon King named Tz'Arkan in the Mallus Darkblade comic/novels.
"Mallus, sometimes you scare even me, and I am a demon king..."
"Shut up demon"
To follow up on chaos based stuff that isn't well known.....malice? He is canon afterall, even if his previous interpretation of malal isn't.
He is on my list :)
@@weshammer les gooooooooooooooooo
@@weshammer death to the false gods
Death to khorne let his blood and skull rest
Death to Tzeench let his skims and plans stop
Death to nurgle let his flesh and plague burn 🔥
Death to slannesh let her pleasure and pain die
Death to the dark gods let the galaxy burn . For malice
War cry of a son of malice follower.
Shout-out to malice gotta be my favorite chaos character from aesthetic alone
@@weshammer ngl I really REALLY hope malal or some form of it becomes canon with the tau entering the warp
I always assumed that the Yssarile was one of the entities that formed in the warp after the War in Heaven along with Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch (and probably other entities that we dont know about) and these proto-chaos gods battled it out to become masters of their respective domains
So how did he fight for a billion years when the war in heaven was 60 millions years ago (and anything before that was a calm warp).
@@Prockski because nobody ever exaggerates...
@@Prockski none of the chaos gods existed before the war in heaven. Whichever interpretation of this lore you like, the 1 billion year war isn't possible (or it was 1 billion years in weird warp time)
@@Prockski the billion years is from the DAEMONS perpesctive of time which is seperate from the matierel universe.
a billion years there could be a second in the materium or the reverse or some twsited paradox etc etc.
@@Prockski was about to say... "ah yes, that timeline really throws a wrench into the theory considering how much the warp enjoys being bound by our rules and perceptions, ESPECIALLY if tzeentch is involved"
Be’Lakor: we got competition brother
Daniel: call the demon Primarchs, because this might get ugly.
This sounds like the God Emperor to me, think about it. So powerful to challenge the Gods of Chaos, his followers built a throne world for him after he was defeated, and his "demons" were able to survive in the Materium. Perhaps this is the future to be for the God Emperor or his previous existence, considering that in the Warp everything is and isn't at the same time.
Maybe an earlier version of the Emperor from another species. For us human it would be just like another daemon but it might as well be a super advanced civilization that tried to defeat chaos on their own and tried to top the strongest.
I really like the idea, but there is a slight gap. This entity is connected to Tzeentch, whereas the God Emperor would more be a new entity not connected to any one of the chaos gods specifically (I think, not entirely sure on the details of his rumored deal with choas). Although the irrelevance of time did make me think.. If the Emperor would ever want to challenge the choas gods he might have to do it facing each one of them at their primes...
Yes Mr Inquisitor. this man right here
So, do we burn this heretic or what?
@@martinschlegel1823yes
I like how there's a possibility that some daemons eventually develop their own sentience that would eventually become more or greater than the other and its on par with the whole chaos concept.
Sapience but yeah.
I think I have a nice theory:
What if this billion year war between tzeench and the demon King is actually the same event as the shattering of tzeench's staff? After all, a gigantic war that threatened tzeench's godhood itself is a very big showing of his lost of power, and isn't hard to believe he sacrificed is monopoly on splles to win it, getting railed in a billion year war to not get attacked by the combined forces of all other chaos gods does seem like a pretty tzeench thing to do....
Also the fact that slanesh was there during the breaking of the staff whilst this war was before slanesh was born is makes perfect sense because the warp is weird that way
it could also be justified as saying tzeentch was actually close to being killed by yssaril who had the other three choas gods backing him in that ancient fight and tzeentch lashed out with all his power at the last moment like the emperor agasint horus shattering his staff and loosing his pinnacle of power but issuing true death to yssaril.
this wouldnt be told by choas as of course it kinda humilates and downgrades tzeentch as it implies he didnt WILLINGLY give up his power to placate and outscheme his brothers by sharing socery with the galaxy he just actually nearly died and saved himself at the last moment.
Its a billion year war, do you think slanesh could have been born during the war? Im not a massive lore guy. Just curious 😅
@@docripvanwinkle4114 technically, due to the way the warp works, slanesh was born before, during and after the warp
@@hugo-fr2rs ahh i see, does this only apply to Slanesh or would this be for all the creatures and deities that exist in the warp? And say if a random person or creature enters the warp, do they become apart of this sort of warp theory lol or are they still technically separate in terms of time and creation? I suppose i should start reading the books to be honest. Thank you very much for the reply :)
@@docripvanwinkle4114 ir doesn't just apply to Slanesh, there is no linear time on The warp. but The lore is VERY undefined with this, thought we can assume that non warp creatures don't really feel that everything is happening everytime when they travel through it
Wait. Wes, do you think the Demon King's corpse is what's making the demons be able to exist in reality? Like how the Emperor's corpse is Humanity's spectral lighthouse?
Also damn its been a while since I last seen your vids. Glad your channel is growing and you're getting sponsors.
Hey thanks I appreciate that! And maybe? That's a pretty good theory. It's a plotline I'd love to see GW develop further in the future
@wseshammer I remember hearing once there was a demon that was guarded by four greater Deamons I think called the screaming child in warhammer fantasy I would love some lore behind him you do amazing work bro my favorite lore channel
There is a chance the Daemon king is the staff, who power grew so great it became an entity in its own right. It would also explain a lot about all of this.
Hi Wes! I just wanted to let you know you are my favorite content producer when it comes to WH40K. You and Luetin09 got me into it, I hadn't really known anything about it before watching your content. Now I'm a huge fan of WH40K's stories and overall universe. I haven't actually played the game itself but am in love with the lore because of you. Stay awesome brother.
Yes! Please don't be a Majorsellout and start promoting chaos and conquest mobile games.
@@koalatysleep Never understood this mindset. Who cares if your favorite creators are getting a bag. Isn't the the whole point? Smh. Hater ass losers lol
Serious question drach'yen vs yssarile the daemon king?
@@forspartaaa2348 That's a tough one man, because Drach'nyen gets more powerful every time a murder occurs, and there is LOTS of murder in WH40k lol. But I think Yssarile would win in the end, that Daemon is so ridiculously powerful he rivaled a Chaos God at full power before it got weakened. And Drach'nyen got shoved into a sword by the Emperor, so..... yeah lol.
@@koalatysleep hey people gotta make money somehow 😂
Correct me if I’m wrong but the warp is just manifestations of emotions and other primal forces or representations of certain ideals and goals. So I personally think that the chaos gods are just very powerful deamons that then contorted the warp around themselves. And there being three types of deamons: God tier deamons (chaos gods), god deamons (deamons that are created by god tier deamons) and lastly the deamons that float around and manifest themselves every now and then that aren’t part of a gods roster.
This is just a idea comprised of various sources, canon and not, over years and if it’s true then there could be a possibility of a 5th god tier deamon arriving or at least a deamon that grows powerful enough to rival the god tiers and is entirely unaffiliated with the chaos gods.
The thing is the chaos gods are more like concepts to me, like you said the warp is manifestations of emotions. In addition, the gods only gain power during certain times due to certain events (Korne needs war, Nurgle needs plagues, idk wtf tzeench needs....a lot of backstabbing, betrayal and overly complex plots?, Slaennesh presumably needs pleasure and excess gluttony on a mass scale I guess?) so their power is always fluxating. So yeah, they are always super powerful, but at the same time they don't have a 100% power level like a normal character or even demon does.
@@scorpiowarrior7841 can these things breed? I'm new to this or do they create eachother or poof pop out of thin air after enough bad shit have happened and if the can create other deamons why don't they create one that feed of all emotions if winning is their goal or do they need the universe to be in permanent suffering to live themselves. This world is so huge and confusing i don't know where to start lol
This is basically canon. They aren't 'gods' by any standard we'd actually apply the word except power.
They're accidents.
All of them, including Slaanesh, are an unintended byproduct of *actual* powers fighting each other. Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch exist because of the War in Heaven, the sheer massive amount of psychic power and strife attached to violence, life, and planning during that time. Slaanesh exists because an entire galaxy-spanning empire of incredibly powerful psychics descended into hedonism you can't readily describe.
They're accidents, made by the actions of things that *actually* exist. They may in fact be the most powerful avatars of those fundamental forces currently in existence, but enough positive emotion tied to their realms of influence for long enough would unmake them, just as surely.
Serious question drach'yen vs yssarile the daemon king?
@@cryingalone7572 The gods are both and not both conceptual ideas. The idea of the Gods is that theya re wholly independant entities within the warp, and are collected emotional thought around a primal emotion. Khorne is anger yes, and fed by extreme acts of hatred, but he is also a god of honor, strength, and valor. All these ideas work around the conceptual idea of acceptance of violence and the needs and reasons behind violence. Just some variations of the anger and hate you need to kill someone are far more potent. As such, Khorne absorbs all these emotions of all species much like a black hole does matter. As for the greater and lesser demons, these are not independantly formed. Instead, they are cast of shards of the Chaos god himself. A demon can only die in 2 ways, that being the Emperor's holy fire, or the Chaos god himself. Skarbrand is indeed a powerful foe, but he is just a piece of Khorne. Should Khorne will it, Skarbrand would be reabsorbed. But he isn't, both because Skarbrand has his uses but also beacuse mortal kind recognizes Skarbrand as his own entity. Khorne is independent, but independence of the chaos god is driven by the rules placed on them by Mortal kind. This is why holy water might have a effect, prayers, and of course, the Holy retribution of that one Cardinal (yes they fight too), and this is beacuse we believe these items hold weight and purpose. Religious ritual and signifigance is a strangea nd indirect way of rewriting or binding a demon to the rules of the ritual performer. There is no actual spell binding a demon, only really your skill with the warp, your faith in the ritual, and of course, the actual accuracies of that ritual (ie. a complete circle, 5 candles 5 inches tall and 2 inches thick, mixed with gold dust as a example).
The Gods seek to cause and perpetuate the things that would feed them. Any time a mortal would feel a specific extreme emotion, it causes a bit of a bubble in the warp. And the nature of the emotion flavors that wave of energy. This then is drawn by the chaos god most related to it. As such, demons of that god then take interest in our shiny mortal, and try and goad more of that emotion. This is particularly prevalent to a psyker, but can happen to a regular person too, eventually allowing a lesser demon to begin whispers or other seductions. In time, that demon gluts on the bits of power, and uses it to ever increase the actions of that person, no matter how vile. This creates something of a chain of energy, which ultimately feeds back to the chaos god. A regular person may suddenly make Khorne's skull rune one day without thinking, or the runes of the other gods. This is why it's so insidious, but usually, it's so small it gets absolutely no where, at least, until a number of people in proximity on a world start getting together at pub time, sometimes at the behest of the demon's influences, which turns into a cult. At that point, religious practice enters the fray in some manner, such as a gladiator pit for fight night, or a brothel that satisfies any pleasure, no matter how willing it's working men and women actually are. It only escalates from there, as their souls are corrupted inch by inch, until a actual demon is summoned. At that point, hell is only a few years away.
Wes you and boldemort are my top 2 creaters you give the info in a easy to digest and with good comparisons. While boldemort gives you the point of view of the world and makes you feel what it's like to be there
Nice video , and the channel is great.
But there’s one thing that should be considered.
Tzeench peak power was at another time .
He’s power was ever growing up until the point in which Khorn , Nurgle and Slaanesh got together to atack him.
Reason being that Tzeench accumulated power pretty much unchecked until this fight with the other 3 gods.
When there was only Khorn and Nurgle .
Either the two gods thought he wasn’t such a treat by then or they didn’t have enough power to atack him.
So if the the fight was before the birth of Slaanesh then Tzeench was powerful when he battled this demon king .
But he was probably considerably weaker than when he was fighting the other 3 chaos gods .
Nonetheless it’s still pretty impressive for this demon king to fight Tzeench pre shattering.
It actually doesn't matter if it was pre or post Slaanesh's birth. The 'Chaos Gods' have always had their power rise and fall, but it is always kept in check by the others if one got too strong. It says right in the lore that if Khorn became too strong then the others would put aside their rivalries and put Khorn in check, as they would do with any of the group. Tzeentch has never been out of the reach of their siblings in terms of power, even when Slaanesh was fresh from the birthing event and rampant with the Eldar gods they were not out of the reach of the others. Another thing for YOU to consider is that time is not a static thing, especially in 40k and most certainly where it pertains to the warp. Tzeentch, Khorn, Nurgle and Slaanesh have been there since the beginning. Slaanesh was there, in the warp and active in events throughout history across the universe before their 'birth scream' shattered the Eldar. It was never just Khorn and Nurgle.
Kevin Langley Kevin Langley hahahaha geez man chill out . What’s up with the YOU in capital letters. But if you used as a way to call my attention to that specific part . Well it actually was a smart move . I do comprehend that times is something relative in normal space in 40k universe . As it probably is in ours to . And that the warp is something akin to a 4th or 5th dimension in our universe so therefore time is not linear . But in that case for one there’s no concrete book narrative per say . Because then anything is everything at the same and it’s not . Then how on earth some writer will make a novel in a comprehensive way . I mean if we just assume this point of view standing alone by itself. Now if they do like they do here . Which mix this element with the more linear structure that exists in real space in 40k then ok it’s become way more digestible for the readers. But even if we consider the warp out time to be a ultimate truth in the scenario and of course it is in a way because it’s the warp , right. So my point still valid in a sense that there’s no way to now if Tzeench was at its peak power or not just because he had its staff. It certainly gives the possibility to be the case because him without the staff would be weaker . But it’s only potential to be . And the video gives the idea that Tzeench was at its maximum power when actually it was only a possibility. And that’s what I tried to pass across on the other comment at least partially. Plus one of the reasons the writers probably do love the way the warp is presented aside its appeal to the narrative is because it does give then the freedom to retcon the heck of whatever they feel like it and it would still make sense .
Tzeentch is the most powerful chaos god of them all.
@@JohnDoe-us2jr lol, my bad, wasn't my intended energy. Truth be told I was kinda lit when I wrote that to begin with
I highly doubt that the Daemon King was stronger then Nurgel or Khorne, but then again, this was most probably during a time where they weren't at their peaks, so I guess it can make sense. But then again, like another UA-camr said, the power scaling of Warhammer is inconsistent. 3 of the gods with infinitely more followers and who stretches across multiple realities being only equal in strength to the newest "born" Chaos god, just makes no sense. I agree with the sentiment, personally.
Probably while the Gods can't experince normal time they can only really power up from their perspective at least for a specific moment where their followers or at least souls consumed are at its height at different times especially during their "Birth" before than they can barely interact with that point in Real Space. (Think of their power ups as being secret levels in a video game they can technically have access to it at anytime but they that level gap is preventing it as in they don't have enough power to influence that point in time in real space than compared to their peaks.)
It's sorta like saying you discovered a new element or species. It already existed you just added it your perception
Seems like he'd one-shot Khorne & Nurgle lol. It took the combined efforts of Khorne, Nurgle & (maybe) Slaneesh to go against Prime Tzeentch; and even then, the shattering of his staff seems to be another "all part of the plan" moment if anything, as opposed to them having actually harmed him.
Meanwhile Yssarile did singular battle with Prime Tzeentch for billions of years. At the very least he'd outrank any of the other chaos gods in a 1v1.
I call bullshit as I never even heard of a daemon king before and if they were so important I'm sure I'd hear about it before
Thats cause Slaanesh was all gorged up in eldar souls, giving her a brief but incredible power boost, brief being a relative term
What about the Blade of Antwyr, possessed by a daemon so strong that it can't be destroyed or locked away and has to be constantly fought by the most incorruptible Grey Knight ever
I am honesty VERY interested in hearing more about this fabled *nation of Ghul.* The concept of a bunch of warp borne rouge deamons crossing over to the physical universe in order to escape the wrath of the Chaos gods and somehow figured out a way to stay substantial (not go POOF) in a reality most strange to them is extremely intriguing!
Just getting into the Eisenhorn books, and now I just want to read them faster. Love the longer vids.
Can't wait for the podcast. The Patreon episodes have all been a blast.
I appreciate the fact the you mention when things like Chaos Entities to Space Marine chapters are often introduced in novels and such simply to serve as plot devices or foils and such. Helps to keep the whole meta in perspective.
I remeber seeing your videos on TT a while back and thinking how amazing it would be if you could tell 40K stories in a longer format. I stopped using TT a while back, so colour me surprised when I noticed YT recommending me one of your videos. It makes me gleeful to know you expanded to this platform. Considered me subscribed with the notification on and everything. You are a fantastic narrator
Hey thanks I seriously appreciate it! You're one of the og's! 😃
Serious question drach'yen vs yssarile the daemon king?
@@forspartaaa2348 would they be at their full power?
@@Heresydetector9000 yup bro
@@forspartaaa2348 then yssarile would win
dud this is now very near my favorite piece of 40K lore ive ever heard of
So in the 10 most powerful factions video, you mentioned that the Tau might have created a new chaos god but you needed to talk about that in the future, seems like a natural follow up to this
Good idea, I need to track down some source material first but I'd love to cover that
Chaos having a hierarchy was always a amusing thought,, because by definition...chaos is disorganized, hellish, and random.
One of the craziest demons I remember hearing about, was The Drach'nyen that the Emperor fought. It was supposed to be the Demon of the First Murder, and so got powerful over time. the Emperor had to cast him into the warp after turning him into a sword. It's kinda interesting how some demons might raise their way up to the chaos God's level, by playing on the warp like they do.
Agreed. I really dislike how ordered and not chaotic Warhammer Chaos really is.
Agreed. But the Chaos forces we see are usually organised for war in realspace.
So ofc they need to have some level of hierarchy and organisation.
If they were truly chaotic, they would easily get outflanked, isolated and decimated by even vastly inferior forces
I learned about you from Majorkill and tbh, i didn't really think a creator coming from Tik Tok would amount to much on UA-cam, especially with 40k being your focus. I am glad to say i was wrong. I've never seen anyone cover this topic in 40k lore in such a great way before and all your recent videos seem to be very good! Good job and good luck on the platform!
I don't know if you've covered it already but have you thought about covering The Forgotten God Malal? He doesn't get a lot of love as he is or was the literal god of chaos and the other four feared him
I find it so interesting that you interpret Slaaneshes' birth the way you do. When I read the phrase "that from the Chaos God's perspective Slaanesh always existed," the way I understood it was that the concepts and underlying power always existed. All the elder did was cause them to coalesce into a single entity. There was an emotional Ort Cloud in the warp, and the Eldar's conduct acted as a single point of psychic gravity. The more demented and hedonistic, the Eldar became the denser the psychic ecretion disc until...BAM. A star is born.
As I am finding out right now it's actually difficult to put how I consider the warp into words, but the basic jist is that time is irrelevant. Like all moments in time are all on top of each other. So from the physical perspective we have a time before and after slaanesh, but in the warp those times are on top of each other, there is no begining or end. Slaanesh just is and is not, always and never. IDK it's 1 a.m. and I'm very sleepy 😅
The demon being regarded as a king at least means to me that he may have been mortal potentially an unknown species or perhaps even an old one who fell to chaos considering how powerfully he was described as being.
No? Daemons literally have titles of humans like ‘champion”
@@ttterg6152 considering his power and uniqueness in both the title I disagree
@@julianpourdanesh3339 dude, humans aren’t unique to the warp
The Deamon King is what happens when you use mods to Buff Daniel in TWWH3 to ludicrous power.
from short to theis you are trully a legend
I watch a bunch of warhammer 40k channels and you got stuff iv never heard of man that was a killer video thanks man very much I love learning the 40k lore especially lore I don't know about
What if the Daemon King's followers were the enslavers and them entering the material world during the war in heaven was just them fleeing the battle with Tzeetch?
Just a fun theory that came to mind after watching this.
Maybe you remember my top comment from way back 4ish months ago on one of the realms of slanesh shorts about how you’ll have a million subs before you know it and just how much potential you had, especially with Star Wars and halo lore junkies getting into warhammer. Just wanna say you’re killing it man! Your videos are a blast to watch and it’s been awesome watching you grow. Best of luck to getting to your million! Almost at 400k!!
Fighting with tzeentch for a long time is something very impressive but could also be just one of tzeentches plans to simply amuze himself same way as he plots againts himself all the time
I'm impressed you managed to say his name so many times without breaking your computer.
Given, y'know, That Scene.
Hey, great job on this one. Really bringing it.
Y'know how it's a real popular theory that the emporer made a deal with the chaos gods to help create the primarchs (for their souls at least); what if those souls belonged to daemon Kings? It would explain why primarchs are fairly powerful. Chaos be like "have your dealing souls; and bind them to a mortal form. Well take half back later. (Tzeentch to himself: whew! Glad to be rid of them Kings)
What if the „Outer Gods“ from H.P. Lovecraft (basically the Gods who the Great old ones pray to . Azatoth etc. )invaded the Warhammer Universe ?
Based on lore, they would eat the whole verse in mere moments
Our existence is just a dream of Azazel...
@@SamiKotiranta *Azathoth
well, Tzeetch is heavely inspired by Lovecraft's Outer Gods
What if Batman took over the Infinity Gauntlet and together with Gandalf Azhor Azai and Dr. Who went into the Eye of Terror to fight the Ruinous Powers?
So many videos this week! You're running the risk of spoiling us.
What if it can be revived again somehow to challenge the 4 God's of Chaos and break the stalemate between the 4 of them as the true master of the realm of chaos? I mean maybe it can be used to further the Warhammer storyline in the future. You could just imagine the emergence of something much more powerful than the 4 chaos Gods themselves would be pretty entertaining to have Tzeentch, Khorne, Nurgle and Slaanesh band together to defeat something much stronger and powerful than they are.
Possible, only if it manages to gather enough belief to bend the rules and come back...
It would make the game more interesting. The 4 chaos gods are kind of boring and lame.
@@FrstSpctr88 meh. He didn’t rely on belief before, which would be why he could overthrow all 4 of them if he comes back.
That would be neat but GW is afraid of change
Yaaaaaay another upload already!
Many thanks for this insightful and entertaining video! Love to see you do a tour of the 40K galaxy! Cheers!
Awesome video I’m really looking forward to the prisoner of the emerald cave one I just watched a short of him on the Warmasters taverns page and can’t wait for a deep dive into it
Agree , Lack of name daemon model make 40k chaos daemon seem like just a mindless drone of their gods
Skarbrand, Kairos Fateweaver, Rotigus, Shalaxi Helbane, Syll'esske, An'grath, Mamon, and Bel'akor.
They basically are but aren't at the sametime depending on power level a Daemon can act independently from their masters But their souls are so tied to the god they practically have none.
I like the idea that Khorne's challenge was over in moments because of how straightforward Khorne is. The equivalent for Tzeentch is a billion years of mind games and plots.
You're my top channel for all thing Warhammer my brother. Keep being 👍😎!!
9:57 "shook his personality out of him" Now I imagine that one scene where SpongeBob strangled Mr.Krab and shook him
it might not be a daemon specific thing but specifically Tzeentch , after all he is the god of change, hope, and revolution, i feel like its inevitable for his most powerful servants to occasionally try to overthrow him, its not a matter of loyalty since when you serve the god of treachery betrayal is loyalty , indeed some may have succeeded perhaps "Tzeentch" is just a title taken up by each successor
Thank you for introducing me to this series. I've only watched a couple of your videos and can't get enough of the lore.
Also this extra large order of wings kind of mirrors the Emperor doesn't he? I have a question about him but don't want to ask in case it's noobish excitement.
“If one such individual rose to power before, it could certainly happen again in the future.”
Sitting on a certain golden chair....
Hello weshammer i really enjoyed watching your videos and can you make video about damocles gulf crusade or indomitus crusade
The trouble with entities like the Daemon King is that, like Belakor and Skarbrand, they reach these incredible levels of power through their service to the Chaos Gods only for them to poke their heads above their assigned station before getting smashed down for their hubris and demonstrate that they were nothing but ants compared to the gods all along. And I would say the DK is another example of this; yes he appears mighty, but he doesn't try to supplant Khorne or Nurgle, he tries to take on Tzeentch... which is kinda like fighting your own shadow, since everything the DK did was known to Tzeentch in advance, so the whole war only went on for as long as Tzeentch wanted it to.
Hopefully he returns sometime, for a new faction or something. (Also enjoying the new content, as I don't get bored while listening to it)
You should continue making shorts to grow more still your longer videos are the best.
Alwys appreciate this lore story that I can re-watch again and again. ^^
an intersting plot idea ( at least for me ) would be that the deamon king actually won the revolt and usurped tzeench so he could take control over tzeench's deamons without much trouble
Just as planned
I'd love to see you and Luetin09 do work together. You two both do such good work on WH40k Lore
I'd love that. He is a legend
Love the new video but wondering if you’re going go back to the short form ones to?
Keep up the good work
You gotta make a bunch of a content to then break it down into sound bite pieces
I think under curious possibility that's how he goes about it
Wes said he preferred the long(er) form and was getting away from the short form (tik tok style). Hell, most of us love the long form as 40K is just too deep for sound-bytes, lol!
Getting better , keep it up.
Now that we have Demon King it is time for Angel (Proto Primarch)
I remember that someone said that Chaos is originally a single entity where the current four gods are just it split personality
Your videos are the best at giving information and, fun lol
I've never heard of this before. This is really cool.
Tzeentch being hela nerfed just before 40k would kinda explain all the stagnation
I mean, he did create 2 Daemons (blue scribes) to hunt down all his lost power.
love the longer videos wes
A wild theory just popped into my head. Yssarile is the true name of the Emperor and his armies are the ancestors of mankind. After he was slain, his body was entombed on a planet in our reality and then his perpetual nature awoke sometime after his armies changed into humans and decided to guide them to a future where he could exact his revenge. This would explain why we don't know what he actually looks like or his true name and why he was trying to lessen humanity's reliance on the warp for travel (separating them from and controlling the warp connections to weaken the Chaos Gods).
the fact that the emperor can rival all 4 of the chaos combine that pretty impressive
@@voomvoom4522 the ork gods are the strongest
Wes man your videos are fire my man great work. Keep going ! And have a great week. There is just one thing that I would like to say and it is more in a constructive way I do comprehend that times is something relative in normal space in 40k universe . As it probably is in ours to . And that the warp is something akin to a 4th or 5th dimension in our universe so therefore time is not linear . But in that case for one there’s no concrete book narrative per say . Because then anything is everything at the same and it’s not . Then how on earth some writer will make a novel in a comprehensive way . I mean if we just assume this point of view standing alone by itself. Now if they do like they do here . Which mix this element with the more linear structure that exists in real space in 40k then ok it’s become way more digestible for the readers. But even if we consider the warp out time to be a ultimate truth in the scenario and of course it is in a way because it’s the warp , right. So my point is that there’s no way to now if Tzeench was at its peak power or not just because he had its staff. It certainly gives the possibility to be the case because him without the staff would be weaker . But it’s only potential to be . And the video gives the idea that Tzeench was at its maximum power when actually it was only a possibility.
Plus one of the reasons the writers probably do love the way the warp is presented aside its appeal to the narrative .
Is because it does give then the freedom to retcon the heck of whatever they feel like it and it would still make sense .
I know he is not all powerful and whatnot but got to say Kirios Fateweaver (prolly spelt that wrong) has a sick background. Got nice time travelling backstory whet he absolutely f*cks with multiple space marine chapters.
Always love the content my dude ✊🏾🔥
I mean it makes sense since the warp is much bigger than what is portrayed because the focus is so heavy on the chaos gods that it creates a skewed perception, kind of like an optical illusion. Taking this into consideration there must be many more "daemon kings", which is sad that GW is so against adding more to anything that isn't a space marine.
but to me this demon king is dead... yes, his body... but not his soul... you could say that what makes the emperor so fucking powerfull is that he has the demon kings soul... that was the shaman ritual... xD is a fun theory
I hope we get the Demon King back in some way, maybe, if it might happen after the Emperor Returns, i think that would make some interesting Enemy of my enemy is my friend Plot.
Shooking the personality of Skarbrand will never get old for me lol
I think a domain of Tzeench that isnt really explored very often is that Tzeench is literally the god of time in warhammer. Because I mean, how do things change? Time moving is the ultimate expression of motion and change which tzeench represents. With a domain like that, you cant really be beat. So tzeench was probably the first chaos god, maybe even a hold over from an older universe. Only nurgle, who's primordial domain of entropy as a result of the forward progression of time is a challenge, the two manifestations of energy and entropy butting heads until the heat death when nurgle can finally claim victory.
Daemon King came to the material world and set up shop on some backwater planet called Terra, fashioning himself as an Emperor now.
KEEP THEM COMINGGGG
demons in their chaotic nature however, is what makes them all the time thought themselves as a superior being than others they tend to be sophisticated and selfish in some reasons but mostly the more they succumb to power the more powerful they've become than their own lesser counterparts thus making them seemed more enhanced than ever so it makes a reasonable explanation regardless. i know i've might've not make sense about the topic or just adding some uncertain additional facts but apparently i'm more open at the topic so i'm giving off my best chance of my opinion. I'd like to know more about conspiracies in w40k it's worth while interesting
Great video as usual. What is that angel pic around the 4:20 mark Tia
its worth mentioning how the word bearers, and the cults before them worship the primordial truth.
it could be that the demon king is a embodiment of that.
After all, all we really know about the primordial truth is seeing chaos not as four pieces, but as a singular being,
if yssarile comprehended that fact, and instead wished to replace his old-patron as a centre piece of that...
who knows, we might be looking at a "the dreamer creates the warp, and one of his dreamt creatures obtains divinity by understanding he is a dream" moment.
Consider this: Seeing that a daemon prince becomes a part of the god when it "ascends", imagine if it became so much a part of it that it became intwined with it and then slowly became more of a rogue thought that the god couldnt control that was a part of it but also beyond its ability to reign in. This would be like how certain circumstances give rise to intrusive thoughts which a consciousness cannot often vanquish or bring under control. So in theory, if a daemon prince was crafty and malignant enough, it could basically become a mental illness within the chaos god until he takes over the mind by slowly assimilating parts of it. In the end he would have to have had many of the same tendencies of the chaos god it took over in order to integrate himself so well but also be alluring enough to not want the god to stop him.
Great video and very informaive
When I first found you I subscribed as a meme because I found you low key annoying but your slowly becoming my fav lore channel honesty keep up the great work
Dude your videos are just good.
Idk if this has been said already and I certainly don’t have a ton of knowledge about 40k but I found it interesting that this particular Demon was a follower of Tzeentch and was around specifically before Slaanesh was created. You said that the only way for a demon to enter the real world is by being summoned or by a supreme act of blasphemy. If time works wonky in the Warp and the Chaos gods always knew of Slaanesh existing/not existing then I think it is at least feasible that the Demon Prince plotted and capitalized on Slaanesh’s birth and used that event to kinda sneak into the real world. He goes dark for years after that not revealing himself and just carving out a little kingdom and by the time anyone notices they find his massive temple chariot. That’s my head canon at least since we don’t know but it makes sense they’d scheme a way out given their prior patron
6:12 it’s probably emps, I mean the lore did said that he had a measure of their power during his trip to moloch
Plot Twist: Yssarile is the Emperor of Mankind.
I don't think this will ever happen but..... this could be a way to set up the return of the Emporer in 40k. The rise of a daemon king so powerful that the 4 cannot take down so they beseech the Anathema for aid in some sort way would be very cool.
Nice video man
The most powerful chaos entity is the Beast, the Great Unnamable one, He Who Must Not Be named. All the other gods are just aspects of this single being, and any who delve into his lore are carried off to the hells of chaos to writhe in eternal debate with the Daemons of Chaos.
There is so much potential with Demon kings in the 40k story its amazing. Thank you for such a insightful video.
I‘d love to see how Necoho fits in this story!
He was a daemon prince who called himself King. Yssarile was a daemon-king who attempted to usurp Tzeentch.[1]
The Malus Codicium tells the tale of Yssarile, a lieutenant, warlord, or prince of one of the four primary powers of Chaos in a time when there were only three. The daemon-king attempted to usurp his master, a foul sorcerer, in a war of bitter enmity said to have lasted for a billion years. Eventually, Yssarile was defeated - killed outright by his former master.[1]
Their king dead, his host fled in terror to seek sanctuary in the material universe. There, they established a capital, Ghül, and six kindred colonies. Ghül itself is said to have been built upon the daemon-king's mausoleum, itself constructed around his barque.[1]
Now this is the power-fantasy that I love 40K for!
If the demon king's followers were able to live in the physical world, does that suggest that his followers were all demon princes/ascended mortals?
Or maybe the title "king" is literal, and he's a greater demon who was literally the king of a mortal kingdom or empire. Like if the emperor was actually a demon, and literally king of the imperium. The imperium is already fighting a long war against chaos after the emperor made shady deals with the chaos gods, and the emperor is already able to rival the chaos gods in the warp. It's basically a "what if" story about if the emperor was a straight up actual demon trying to become a new god, and that's a dope storyline