This is always the case with smaller scale miniatures. They are meant to be viewed at arm's length all together. My 6mm ACW army look great on the table, but up close they're just blobs of colour under a wash.
As a long time Flames of War/Team Yankee fan, I'm used to this level of detail on infantry at this scale. The fact they're as detailed as they are surprised me.
its fine, the models are fine, they needed to be designed better for single part production to remove most of the shadowing - third parties seem to manage it, and GW used to manage it. Its not a huge issue its also remarkably easy to get these models (and the older 6mm!) looking just fine the question is "what level of detail is needed before it becomes a blurred mess?" see 15mm and models in camo, to do it right you basically mix the paints in the right proportions and just use that, so you overscale it to get the view. I've a bunch 3d printed, they are basically "base, wash, drybrush" for the majority colour (bone), add the secondary colour (green), add a dark gun metal on the weapons, add some dark brass, paint the base a sand colour and job done. they look fine I may add a slight highlight on the green, depends how bored I get
@@MediocreHobbies do totally agree on the bases though, that sells the 15mm WW2 stuff as well, each sort of becomes a very small diorama. and the way they have done the infantry will make adding a few spares to Titan bases easy as well which is nice. would have wanted plain bases here but it is what it is. enjoying the paint guides also the point on the infantry being essentially tokens is "so-so" yes/no, they can looks good, they are easy to make serviceable and the shadowing stuff while irritating (could have been avoided with better posing) isn't game breaking, some 15mm have it as well
I used to paint warmaster minis ( 10mm) and in the end you're looking to paint bold, clean and contrasting colors on your minis. With small scale game systems, you have to think of the overall representation of your army
I’m still pretty amazed by the detail on the infantry tbh. The vehicles are fabulous too. The detail on the rhino is essentially the same as the detail on the 28mm one.
Epic infantry were always very simplistic and largely an abstraction. If there's an issue, it's the claim that the models have 'so much incredible detail, despite their size' and so newer player think they're simply getting a smaller version of the models they're used to. They're supposed to be a couple of tidy colours and maybe a shade or perhaps a line of highlight. The GW examples do look trash, though, and that's coming from someone who painted their epic straight from the pot, when they were 11...
Got to say I completely disagree with you on this one. You can correct me here but it sounds like you are commenting towards how you think other people will see these miniatures, which is a false premise because you can't know what another person is thinking. I have seen a number of painting vid's and noted the structure of the mini's as I am sure a lot of interested parties have. The only reason I see that you would limit your pallet on the infantry is because of the number you have to paint vs the time frame for getting them on the table. Having painted 15mm the drop to 8mm is not huge and while I would not be painting the moustache or eyes on the 8mm, a secondary paint job on shoulder pads and knee caps is well within the scope of the hobby. If you want to do it.
I’m not saying that at all I’m just nervous about people going into there new projects with these grand ideas of what there infantry will look like and I think a lot of people will fall short and feel disappointed. Even though the job they do will be fantastic. And the difference between 15 and 8 is huge. I want you to hold one of the new models in your hand. It’s crazy how small they really are. I’m not saying you can’t do what you say. I’m not saying some people won’t do stunning jobs.
@@MediocreHobbiesI get what you're saying. I think at 32mm, people already have unrealistic expectations of how their army will look when finished; if people are approaching 8mm with the same mindset, then they'll get the same outcome. But I think pretty much everyone knows how small 8mm is, and I'd hope that most people would realise you can't paint ALL of the eye lenses at that scale.
@@MediocreHobbiesactually Legion has relieved me from my anxiety about how to paint my models. There's only so much you can reasonably achieve with the size, so more than 3 colors are just not in the cards. I love it. I can finally get something done and play it.
I can tell you right now I don’t want infantry. Not because of any issues with detail, or size, but because this is supposed to be about the big bois duking it out and accidentally stepping in the infantry. It’s about battle tanks and up, not little walking mud dwellers. Dreadnoughts might be “ok” in scale, but keep in mind they don’t just get their butt kicked in by a warhound, they get punted through the field goal by the warhound. Scale wise they just aren’t up there, even though they are the vaunted “space marine” chosen.
i think it becomes super apparent when you start seeing knights and stuff with the models, you cant help but ignore the infantry. There's a pic from the rule book which has ultramarines and cerastus knights that illustrates it well, the infantries most important role in the display is providing scale for all the vehicles and mechs honestly
I really appreciate what you have said, and it fits in with your whole point of your channel; to get models painted and on the table to a good standard. Your putting out a very respectful word of advice to those about to start a legion imperialis army is very helpful, and I appreciate your candor. Keep up the good work! I’m looking forward to seeing your work when the Old World releases!
for the space marines I did Blood Angels so to keep is simple and nice looking I used Mephiston Red Spray and the oil wash with that they are nearly done last steps was paint the guns / jump packs then dry brush of silver
I never played old Epic but I just got my LI box and honestly I'm shocked at how GOOD the minis are at this scale lol. I'm just staring dumbfounded at how small these little dudes are, they're amazing. People being worked up over "why isn't it perfect it's a premium product" probably need to sit down and see them in real life to consider how plastic just doesn't work like that. (The warhammer painting video really should've more clearly said "this is a speed paint to get a beginner done asap" though)
I do have Epic mini's which I got second hand and some were painted. The interesting detail with these were 6mm Ultra marines in which the bolters were still painted with bolt gun metal and red casings. Maybe that is why the guy sold them. He couldn't face the standard he set for himself but they still look good.
I think the scale they went for with Epic 2.0 the main issue, 9-10mm I think. I've played with and painted a fair bit of epic scaled Napoleonic and 30 Years War figures and they seem to have it figured out right. The scale there is 15mm in "true scale" (~1:100) instead of warhammer's heroic scale, and they all come in nice lines with just enough details to do some meaningful painting so the units can be differentiated and unique if you want but they're also tiny enough so you can do it fast and get a lot of regiments and battalions done and really get a feel for having a whole tiny army on your table. Even full army sizes are manageable in that scale and it looks amazing with so many figures.
Great video sir. Is there a video that features your base painting technique for these guys? And agree, tiny scale benefits from the whole army looking unified and detail is not nearly as important.
Honestly I appreciate this. I'm not much of a painter, and only paint because it looks better on the table. A simple paint scheme that looks good works for me
Refreshing to see an honest commentary on these figures, this helps people like me decide if this is the project for me.Will keep an eye out for any more helpful insights going forward
Good vid mate. Worth explaining. Customer perception is important and hopefully this helps people manage their expectations. Always keeping it real, love it
I think this is where the simple, bright, colour schemes of the space marines come in really handy. Blood Angels space marines just need to be red, and then do something a little bit different so that you can tell the difference between the normal tactical bases and the support bases. The Solar Auxilia I'm a little less sure about, because the dark grey that GW have painted there's in makes it hard to tell the different bases apart. I think I'd have to choose a different colour to paint them for a base, to make it easier to pick out the different weapons. What colours have you painted the Solar Auxilia infantry?
Yes I agree o went for like an auxilia for my fists so yellow cloth. But I need to revisit them and give them powered blue axes and bronze tipped flamers to help make those units stand out from the infantry.
Well I think what you have said is just as relivant for the first edition of epic. I have hundreds of imperial guard, space marines. I soon learnt that a spray can of base colour a splash of silver and green bases. Yes I said green bases. Lol. The joy was in painting the Titans and super heavies and making terrain for the board. I enjoyed this video and your honesty. But like always, each to thier own in what they get out of the hobby. On occassion a video like this is fine but your the man for a quick painting system. That is what I watch u for! Keep the great content coming. Much thanks!!
It’s all game pieces! They look Fantastic for the scale. I was there in 1990, these are staggeringly good. Base. Dry brush. Wash. Spot colours. Amazing base. Job done. That’s the whole point
I painted Warmaster and you are absolutely right. BUT: the second you decrease your expectations, painting small scale infantry is sooo freeing and fun.
This video NEEDED to exist thank you. I've been watching a lot of excitement at my local store and a lot of folks confused why I wasn't hyped for Imperialis. I think the game is fine and will be great for many but me a big thing I get from the hobby is painting, especially characters. Knowing that I knew I wouldn't get that with Imperialis, just the limitation of the scale not a bad thing but something folks need to have in mind going in. I think there's going to be a lot of folks at my store that are going to have the disappointment you mention because I've been hearing their excitement to PAINT their armies but they have NOT been focusing on the titans or the BIG tanks the things you can do detail on. Proper expectations going in can be very important for a game launch.
It all about expectation management. The mistake that most people make when the first switch from a 32mm figure to a smaller scale (6/10/15mm) is that they don’t understand the smaller scale mini is more abstract and don’t have as much definition and don’t need detailed painting. Doesn’t matter if you’re doing 6mm 40k or Nopoleonics. The figures are meant to be looked at on the table from an arms length away not 3 inches from your eyeball with a magnifying glass.
Really good take. The LI starter box is my first time painting at this scale, and looking at my finished infantry up close (or at a photo of them), really drives home any mistakes I've made/issues with the sculpts (such as stretching). That being said, you're absolutely right in that from a distance/with a whole army painted, the overall effect is much better. Any issues with contrast paint, for example, being applied unevenly across an army or even an individual infantry model practically disappear when you look at a whole force. I'm taking much longer with my tanks and have already stripped each of them once due to not being happy with the results I'm getting, but I think I've cracked them now. This is my first time using contrast paints as well, so it's been a fantastic learning experience trying them on LI minis.
The biggest issue im having is the very delicate and easily breakable parts; things like swords and such. I have broken many assault marines and such while trying to pick up the base
I think this is really important info to remember. These tiny duders are meant to be viewed from 3-5 feet away, the way they're being shown online in super high resolution camera shots just isn't realistically how you'll see them when gaming and painting. I don't even think it's possible for human eyes to focus that well on something so small. They're meant to look good from several feet away in the dozens.
This video went in a totally different direction than what I expected. I almost didn't click on it as I anticipated a bunch of GW-bashing. Actually quite a helpful perspective.
The fact that scale creep has moved away from 6mm to 10mm does not really change the fact that both scales have been in heavy use for historical wargames for decades. As well as many other SciFi games like Battletech, Ogre.and Dirtside II. You can paint figures for the Napoleonic wars quite nicely for 6mm. Sure you won't get the detail of full scale GW figures, but you can get the look and feel of mass formations that 28-32mm can not achieve
In summary: This video is important, and I encourage you to publish any video in any format that articulates your point of view, experiences, techniques, and/or intent. In less summary: This video is very good, and does not stray from the intent of you videos (I'll take the liberty of assumption that your videos are to guide people in their painting). Straying from the technical side of painting and delving into what I can summarize as philosophy is a critical part of mentoring. I'd imagine you've got a John Carpenter's They Live vibe going on with a lot of other outlets focusing on detailing these tiny globs of plastic, but I one hundred percent agree with you. I'm honestly surprised GW has been pushing their 'detailed' epic minis this hard; because anything smaller than a dreadnought is not detailed at all. It is more shocking to me that GW revived Epic.
This is totally correct. I’ve been painting 6mm since the early 80s (including all editions of AT / SM/ Epic) and you have to shift the way you think, its all about the army you are painting not the individual models (although as you mention with tanks etc you can really go to town). I just people aren’t disappointed with what promises to be an exciting and excellent game just because they are hamstrung by narrow thinking about how you should paint your tiny plastic dudes. That said there will be some (as in the old epic community) that do astonishing things with even really tiny infantry. One think I love is when you treat each infantry stand as a little diorama (command stands in particular), you can really tell a story
I think the key is realizing these are gaming pieces, not display models. I'm a gamer first and a painter/modeler second. Your videos are perfect for what I think is needed in painting these tiny models.
Fully true! ! It should look good at arm length! No fancy painting needed! Glad that you said it out loud! I was saying the same thing back when I was painting epic ork hordes.
@@MediocreHobbies I must admit I was a little hasty as I spoke to a guy at work today and he said the same thing that he was struggling to get the models painted to a standard he thought they needed to be. I said when we played Epic the infantry were simply done to look good enough from across the table and the larger models got the painting love.
Superb and realistic view , and don't forget "Quantity has a quality of it's own " massed mediocre painted infantry will look amazing once on the table amongst the armour and scenery.
Great video. appreciate your thoughts and opinions … honesty and integrity 👍 I have just picked up a baneblade squadron looks amazing in the flesh looking forward to getting these made and painted should be interesting to put them next to my 4 40K scale baneblade chassis …. Keep the videos coming great job 🍻👍
I 100% agree. I’ve painted about 500 6mm Cold War infantry for a game system my friends and I made - infantry are just a block colour, a dot of flesh for the face and then a black line for the gun. My blood angels are Red, silver for the gun and then black for the backpack - with a nuln oil wash. On Zandri Dust bases they work. I’ve put about an hour and a half into each rhino though as I can actually panel line and dry brush on them.
There is a way to get epic infantry with great detail - 3D printing. I have printed Dire avengers where you can see the texture on the plumes of their helmets.
I've probably painted thousands of 6-10mm minis to date. The principle for me has always been "paint the unit, not the individual minis". With teeny tiny infantry, cavalry, bikes, etc, it's all about how a base of minis looks from about 3 feet away, and making the main colours pop is the best way to achieve that. You can definitely have more fun painting tanks, titans, etc, though.
That’s a great way of putting it. And I think that mite be a key point. The legion people mite need to lean on the historical people to help them with projects like this.
@@MediocreHobbies fair point there. I think if you've been painting mostly 28mm models, and you tend to put a lot of effort into details, highlighting, etc, then switching to something so small is a shift in perspective. But once you change your view, I think it's easier to find satisfaction in painting this scale. Epic scale has always been about the visual effect of massed ranks of troops and squadrons of vehicles, it's just about painting to get that effect.
I was shocked when I saw the Warhammer community videos and they talked about how amazing the paint jobs were. I'm glad I was not the only person that felt the same way you did in this video! I also think perhaps one issue is all they use is GW product to paint with, so no oil washes etc.
I notice that non-hobbyists can have this experience even at 28mm -32mm scale. Showed my nephew how to paint a chaos cultist before, we painted copies of the same model. Showed him the basics, layers, washes but I was a bit neater and experienced, did a few highlight touches at the end. Showed our work to my sister, she couldn't tell the difference 😅
good video im not getting into EPIC myself due to the size of the models...but having my expectations set at a realisitic point is really important rather than trying to drive myself bonkers doing fine details.....keep them coming
This video is exactly what I was looking for. Got me to subscribe. I like your take on that these are not supposed to be beautiful standalone models. They are supposed to me massive armies on smaller battle mats 10/10
I think the key term to keep in mind with any models at this scale is "realistic expectations" You got to be realistic for e what can actually be pulled off, or even seen, at this scale. Be that details or painting. And that seems to get lost in much of the discussion.
Ive been playing Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis from their respective starts, and I think the infantry are perfect for what they represent at this scale. My biggest complaint is that ill have to limit myself to 2 armies, for now...
Having painted many armies in 6mm, and several in 15mm, the goal is not the model itself - the thinking behind 28mm painting has to be discarded. The goal is the “mass effect look” and - as you say - doing good bases and trying to make the bases look like mini dioramas. The small size of the models looks amazing when massed together (this is true of any models in this scale). So I feel like you’re spot on - focus on “okay” painting for the models and do up the bases nice. You can dab spots of color where you need it. It will have a look that LOOKS like a sci-fi battlefield. Thanks for the video!
I thought you were right before, but today I saw some of the infantry counters (I’m not going to call them minis anymore lol) and after seeing them with my own eyes I can categorically say you are absolutely spot on and correct Andy. I’m sure there is some nut job out there who is gonna spend months painting one of these squads with a magnifying glass and a single hair brush with perfect edge highlighting just to prove they can do it and win a golden demon. But the point is it will only be one base worth and if you then put that golden demon winning base in amongst a whole bunch of bases that you had painted (as long as they were same legion ofc) from gaming distance even normal display distance I reckon you might struggle to find the golden demon base, until you start picking them up and squinting at them individually. Nope my mind is made up the infantry counters in epic are only one step up from terrain, they are important for helping to set the scene and sell the scale but after that they should basically blend into the scene, kinda like putting skulls on bases of 40k minis they help set the scene, but you would want someone looking at your character mini you spent several weeks painting and then complementing the skull on the base would you, it should just help sell the overall scene, and that’s what epic infantry is for imo.
As an oldskool epic (6mm) player I think your words are a bit overly harsh. You *do* have to adjust your expectations to 2, perhaps 3, colours per model. That'll do an satisfactory job, especially at arms length, Fully agree on the emphasis on bases. These are factually more important in epic than the actual infantry models.
I would agree over the years most people moving from 28mm to 6/10 try to paint them as 28mm figures. It's an easy way to drive yourself crazy . Base coat ,wash and a bold highlight is all you really need
I agree with you. I have painted 15mm figures and the very best you can do is to stimulate facial and clothing features in that scale. However because the tanks, AFVs and soft skinned vehicles are much larger the painting is far more easier. It is simply a matter of scale. The Infantry in the Legions Imperialis are scaled to the size of the tanks which would make them much small in size. I think your painting technique is the best way to go for these figures, the simpler the better and they look really good too. Thanks for sharing this.
Have to say while i agree to some degree. Not totally infantry at this scale can be amazing too. It totally depends on how you as the players/ painter want to go about it.
Agreed. My old epic infantry don't look great if you hold them to eye level, but always looked fine on the table top. I didn't have contrast paints in those days, so it was just a base coat, wash, and drybrush, and then picking out whatever details I felt comfortable with.
I got all my orders today and I think the infantry minis are pretty good and cute 😂 I'ma get some churned out for play and really go to town on my second formation anyway, probably pointless as you say but for my owm personal amusement 😂
i was about to walk up to the store to buy the box but i rather stay at home have cup of barry's and will stick to painting the 28mm worldeaters i already have thanks mate
Having painted a few pieces for AI, I already know what I'm getting into with legions. Once I finished painting an epic grot on one of the Ork bombers in like 18 seconds, I knew what was going on. I also loved it for what it was: The tiniest little plastic soldier I've ever painted. I feel like a lot of people will benefit from more content hitting the internet over time, so expectations can be reeled in a little bit if nothing else. These minis are absolutely doing what they need to do, let's see how their paint jobs evolve in the coming months!
Gotta admit, despite seeing multiple videos, despite hearing you say “you won’t be able to do as much with the infantry as you think you will”, despite owning a tape measure! … these were still smaller than my brain had internalised ha ha! Got my box today, opened it up and immediately giggled when I saw how small the marines were. And then genuinely, my next thought was anger at how much crap people were giving these sculpts online. They’re so small, it doesn’t even matter ha ha! Can’t wait to see how much of a paint job I can do 🤣
It needed to be said, it IS a good video! Lord knows what it took Richard Gray to make that commander look so good, with the ittybitty glowing eyes. I'm building my first Rhino right now. No infantry arrived yet. But I am looking at the little multi-melta gunner and going "Oh my god," and having the exact same thoughts and realization. I think with some effort, you _can_ make these guys look better than the WHTV tutorials. Those death guard just don't have shit for contrast, and the Charonite sculpts just don't do anything for me in the first place. The contemptors though look fantastic. But I suspect the only way to even notice glowing eyes on a commander is going to be going cross-eyed looking at him thru magnifying glasses LOL
I played Epic when it was still called Space Marine and I like these models a lot. The only thing stopping me from getting into it is Games Workshop only releasing games like this for a short time. It's even more disheartening when they promise to keep supporting it.
Totally get where your coming from 👍🏻 people need to just tone down their expectations on the infantry, myself included, am just going off your guides, looking forward to seeing them on a table, bonus for me is I might actually finish a force I can play with 😂 my only concern for future is actually being able to get hold of the minis
I agree with you tbh, when I opened my box I made the prediction most people will struggle with these kits. Ecspecially when it comes to the building, priming and basing aspects.
Small things aren't as detailed as big things. Ok. I have to get to about 10cm away before I can tell that the freehand Thousand Sons symbol on the guys shoulder pad is just a white blob with a red dot in the middle. *shrug*
The GW painting videos have been awful, but some folks on YT including yourself have been doing a great job. My LI box landed yesterday and I knew the infantry were going to be small, BUT not THAT small. 3 or 4 paints max on these little fellas, and don’t sweat the small stuff 😂
I remember the first time I saw Epic in White Dwarf, in #136, the infantry was painted in very simple style, to the extent that the Death Skull orks were painted all over blue, with no skin or weapon picked out. It was the same with the other ork clans. All the effort had gone into the vehicles. And this was in WD! I dont have any point to make, just that this discussion reminded me of it.
I think it more depends on what you want to get out of the game. I've been a huge fan of 6mm ever since Epic 40k, I think its the perfect scale for 40k mass battles. But I also love playing small 6mm skirmish games and love going mad on painting & converting tiny troops. You really don't need to paint eyes and shoulder pad details if you want to play a lot of big games, but if you only interned to have a single army, or want to pour a lot of love into a single project then taking that time on the infantry is well worth it. I won't be spending a lot of time on getting my mass battle army painted, but I'll be spending weeks on painting and converting some infantry for some stand out units or adding to my Inq6 games (Inquisitor at 6mm scale) I do think a lot of people are going to be disappointed when they get their set, when never having seen Epic scale before they will expect the sort of results you will see online over the next few months or inside the books/official material. If anything, the abysmal painting videos from GW will have helped to temper expectations. I think the new minis are more detailed, but no better quality than the better/upgraded plastics of the 1997 range. I think GW purposely hid the quality in their early promos, but having got mine this morning (Cheers Eire hobbies!) they are not as bad a the macro photography and online doomsayers would have us believe. It was a choice between these new dynamic poses or the old style static poses, they had to go for this style to go against what can be done in metals or 3d printing at this scale.
Agree with you entirely. The infantry need a different approach to painting, and the way the models are being shown (particularly on UA-cam) are giving the entirely wrong impression of the models. It's like painting a regular-sized Space Marine and zooming in on just the foot, because that's the size these minis are. They need to be seen from a distance, en masse, and they look glorious.
Something as simple as contrast + armour trim + gunmetal guns and a nice base works wonders with Epic scale, people been doing it for years still playing Epic Space Marine and Epic 40K. Doesn't necessarily look great individually but looks fantastic when there's a whole army on the field. Also Eldar Harlequin epic 40k players are just straight up on another level. 😂 How the hell some of them manage to pull off checkered legs on epic scale infantry is humbling!
I was dubious about LI models. I got myself a terminator squad and rhino off ebay to see how i felt about them. Now i have a chapter strength force😅 its a nice change to just put a base colour, wash then a couple bits of colour on a pauldron or the boltguns, rather than get carpal tunnel trying to paint an exalted sorcerer 😂
In a nutshell you're saying manage your expectations. It stands to reason you're not going to paint Epic infantry to the standard of normal 40K figure base on the fact you don't have the same real-estate to work with. Also it's like hoard armies. Do you want to be spending hours on the chaff when you'll be removing them in droves when your opponent opens fire? No. Keep it simple.
I full understand where you are going with this video. When I got back into the hobby 4 years ago, I painted my tau fire warriors like single figures and not like a group of models. It is the same here, dont put effort into 200 infantry do it on the single bigger models. ❤
Its the same as epic 40k and E:A, the infantry in numbers is what makes it, not so much each model or their unit. Having swarms or blobs of marines together 4 to 6 feet away looks... epic. You'd never want to get down close to one unit, it's just not that sort of game.
I deleted my previous comment because it was kinda snotty. I’ll just say that if painted properly 8mm infantry can look good and massed infantry is one of the reasons to play at this scale. Bright colors, simple shading, and impressionistic details (like the Bolter should just be black with a little silver on top). I think enough videos have been made with comparative sizes and good painting guides that people know what they are getting in to. I got my box today trying to decide what legion, the special rules vary quite a bit in usefulness. The Imperial Fists have a nice bright color and what looks like to be a very good special rule but I’d like to a use a traitor legion. Maybe emperors children and use a brighter purple or Death Guard? Putting together the tanks looks very fiddly and I am less looking forward to that.
I appreciate your new connect. Only about 5 comments out of the nearly 300 haven’t taken something positive from the video and They have all mentioned 15mm historicals. I think the thing your missing is epic is not massed ranks. It’s not 60 to 100 miniatures tightly packed onto a base. That of course will look stunning. It’s 5 marines to a base. I’m not saying there not going to look good. My channels entire purpose to to dispel fears and help people get models on the board. Thats it full stop. People who have never seen an epic game system before will be extremely nervous about the amount of models they need to use and I’m trying to manage there expectations so they can enjoy it. My video is not designed in fact my whole channel is not designed for veteran gamers who already know what there doing and need no help. If you spent two minutes reading through the comments you mite have seen the value most people got out of the video. Appreciate you coming back and I Joel you have a great time with your epic.
Thanks for deleting your previous comment, I appreciate it. I’ve made those tutorials myself, just wanted this video to remind people to manage their expectations rather than getting disheartened-can’t really see anything wrong with that 😄
If people think they can paint Epic models that look exactly like tiny 28mm models then they are simply idiots, no reason to ever think that especially by looking at the photo's. I do think that managing expectations is a reasonable thing to promote, infantry will look decent at best unless you are Richard Grey or someone like him.
I’m sure your printed once are amazing. But if everybody printed there models the game is dead in arrival. And please don’t confuse me. I love 3D printing. Currently running 12 printers with two more on the way.
I think this is the first time I’ve ever given a video a thumbs down, and it’s simply because of your statement ( that you should not be proud of them.) You should always be proud of your artwork, even if it’s not what you expected it to be in my opinion, but again, that’s just an opinion.
Ye I get where your coming from and I could have phrased that better. I just meant that when you look down on your army with pride I don’t think it’s your infantry that will be making you feel that.
Legion imperialis models are fantastically detailed.
They really are. So nice.
This is always the case with smaller scale miniatures. They are meant to be viewed at arm's length all together. My 6mm ACW army look great on the table, but up close they're just blobs of colour under a wash.
Yep. Hence the focus on tanks and titans.
As a long time Flames of War/Team Yankee fan, I'm used to this level of detail on infantry at this scale. The fact they're as detailed as they are surprised me.
its fine, the models are fine, they needed to be designed better for single part production to remove most of the shadowing - third parties seem to manage it, and GW used to manage it. Its not a huge issue
its also remarkably easy to get these models (and the older 6mm!) looking just fine
the question is "what level of detail is needed before it becomes a blurred mess?"
see 15mm and models in camo, to do it right you basically mix the paints in the right proportions and just use that, so you overscale it to get the view.
I've a bunch 3d printed, they are basically "base, wash, drybrush" for the majority colour (bone), add the secondary colour (green), add a dark gun metal on the weapons, add some dark brass, paint the base a sand colour and job done. they look fine
I may add a slight highlight on the green, depends how bored I get
That Makes sense.
@@MediocreHobbies do totally agree on the bases though, that sells the 15mm WW2 stuff as well, each sort of becomes a very small diorama. and the way they have done the infantry will make adding a few spares to Titan bases easy as well which is nice.
would have wanted plain bases here but it is what it is.
enjoying the paint guides
also the point on the infantry being essentially tokens is "so-so" yes/no, they can looks good, they are easy to make serviceable and the shadowing stuff while irritating (could have been avoided with better posing) isn't game breaking, some 15mm have it as well
I used to paint warmaster minis ( 10mm) and in the end you're looking to paint bold, clean and contrasting colors on your minis. With small scale game systems, you have to think of the overall representation of your army
Great tip. Thanks pal.
I’m still pretty amazed by the detail on the infantry tbh.
The vehicles are fabulous too. The detail on the rhino is essentially the same as the detail on the 28mm one.
Ye it is scary what they can do.
Epic infantry were always very simplistic and largely an abstraction. If there's an issue, it's the claim that the models have 'so much incredible detail, despite their size' and so newer player think they're simply getting a smaller version of the models they're used to. They're supposed to be a couple of tidy colours and maybe a shade or perhaps a line of highlight. The GW examples do look trash, though, and that's coming from someone who painted their epic straight from the pot, when they were 11...
Hahaha your poor models. And shade yes tiny edge highlight……… are you crazy.
Got to say I completely disagree with you on this one. You can correct me here but it sounds like you are commenting towards how you think other people will see these miniatures, which is a false premise because you can't know what another person is thinking. I have seen a number of painting vid's and noted the structure of the mini's as I am sure a lot of interested parties have. The only reason I see that you would limit your pallet on the infantry is because of the number you have to paint vs the time frame for getting them on the table. Having painted 15mm the drop to 8mm is not huge and while I would not be painting the moustache or eyes on the 8mm, a secondary paint job on shoulder pads and knee caps is well within the scope of the hobby. If you want to do it.
I’m not saying that at all I’m just nervous about people going into there new projects with these grand ideas of what there infantry will look like and I think a lot of people will fall short and feel disappointed. Even though the job they do will be fantastic. And the difference between 15 and 8 is huge. I want you to hold one of the new models in your hand. It’s crazy how small they really are. I’m not saying you can’t do what you say. I’m not saying some people won’t do stunning jobs.
@@MediocreHobbiesI get what you're saying. I think at 32mm, people already have unrealistic expectations of how their army will look when finished; if people are approaching 8mm with the same mindset, then they'll get the same outcome.
But I think pretty much everyone knows how small 8mm is, and I'd hope that most people would realise you can't paint ALL of the eye lenses at that scale.
@@MediocreHobbiesactually Legion has relieved me from my anxiety about how to paint my models. There's only so much you can reasonably achieve with the size, so more than 3 colors are just not in the cards.
I love it. I can finally get something done and play it.
I can tell you right now I don’t want infantry. Not because of any issues with detail, or size, but because this is supposed to be about the big bois duking it out and accidentally stepping in the infantry. It’s about battle tanks and up, not little walking mud dwellers. Dreadnoughts might be “ok” in scale, but keep in mind they don’t just get their butt kicked in by a warhound, they get punted through the field goal by the warhound. Scale wise they just aren’t up there, even though they are the vaunted “space marine” chosen.
It's 6mm miniatures. You're not aming for individual miniatures but for units. 6mm painting is way easier than 28mm/32mm.
Way way way easier.
Love how honest you are! A few other channels did painting tutorials. You definitely are the most thoughtful and honest ❤ thank you !
That’s so kind pal. Thank you so much.
i think it becomes super apparent when you start seeing knights and stuff with the models, you cant help but ignore the infantry. There's a pic from the rule book which has ultramarines and cerastus knights that illustrates it well, the infantries most important role in the display is providing scale for all the vehicles and mechs honestly
I love that. The representation of scale.
I really appreciate what you have said, and it fits in with your whole point of your channel; to get models painted and on the table to a good standard. Your putting out a very respectful word of advice to those about to start a legion imperialis army is very helpful, and I appreciate your candor. Keep up the good work! I’m looking forward to seeing your work when the Old World releases!
That’s so kind pal thank you. And yes old work will Consume my life lol.
for the space marines I did Blood Angels so to keep is simple and nice looking I used Mephiston Red Spray and the oil wash with that they are nearly done last steps was paint the guns / jump packs then dry brush of silver
Sounds perfect.
I never played old Epic but I just got my LI box and honestly I'm shocked at how GOOD the minis are at this scale lol. I'm just staring dumbfounded at how small these little dudes are, they're amazing. People being worked up over "why isn't it perfect it's a premium product" probably need to sit down and see them in real life to consider how plastic just doesn't work like that. (The warhammer painting video really should've more clearly said "this is a speed paint to get a beginner done asap" though)
Hahahhaha yes. So many people expecting so much from such tiny models.
I do have Epic mini's which I got second hand and some were painted. The interesting detail with these were 6mm Ultra marines in which the bolters were still painted with bolt gun metal and red casings. Maybe that is why the guy sold them. He couldn't face the standard he set for himself but they still look good.
Faces, Bases, and flags. Old school idea but it's what I plan to apply to these minuiatures
Yup. Alway works.
This needed to be said and it doesn't surprise me it being you who said it. Sensible and helpful. Thanks.
Cheers pal.
I think the scale they went for with Epic 2.0 the main issue, 9-10mm I think. I've played with and painted a fair bit of epic scaled Napoleonic and 30 Years War figures and they seem to have it figured out right. The scale there is 15mm in "true scale" (~1:100) instead of warhammer's heroic scale, and they all come in nice lines with just enough details to do some meaningful painting so the units can be differentiated and unique if you want but they're also tiny enough so you can do it fast and get a lot of regiments and battalions done and really get a feel for having a whole tiny army on your table. Even full army sizes are manageable in that scale and it looks amazing with so many figures.
Solid points.
Great video sir. Is there a video that features your base painting technique for these guys? And agree, tiny scale benefits from the whole army looking unified and detail is not nearly as important.
I shall be doing a basing video this week as requested and I will be doing a few different colours.
Honestly I appreciate this. I'm not much of a painter, and only paint because it looks better on the table. A simple paint scheme that looks good works for me
Sounds like me and you feel the same way.
Refreshing to see an honest commentary on these figures, this helps people like me decide if this is the project for me.Will keep an eye out for any more helpful insights going forward
Still think there worth the time and it will be a good game. But just some things to bare in mind.
Good vid mate. Worth explaining. Customer perception is important and hopefully this helps people manage their expectations. Always keeping it real, love it
Glad you approve pal.
I think this is where the simple, bright, colour schemes of the space marines come in really handy. Blood Angels space marines just need to be red, and then do something a little bit different so that you can tell the difference between the normal tactical bases and the support bases. The Solar Auxilia I'm a little less sure about, because the dark grey that GW have painted there's in makes it hard to tell the different bases apart. I think I'd have to choose a different colour to paint them for a base, to make it easier to pick out the different weapons.
What colours have you painted the Solar Auxilia infantry?
Yes I agree o went for like an auxilia for my fists so yellow cloth. But I need to revisit them and give them powered blue axes and bronze tipped flamers to help make those units stand out from the infantry.
Well I think what you have said is just as relivant for the first edition of epic. I have hundreds of imperial guard, space marines. I soon learnt that a spray can of base colour a splash of silver and green bases. Yes I said green bases. Lol. The joy was in painting the Titans and super heavies and making terrain for the board. I enjoyed this video and your honesty. But like always, each to thier own in what they get out of the hobby. On occassion a video like this is fine but your the man for a quick painting system. That is what I watch u for! Keep the great content coming. Much thanks!!
Oh I plan on pal. Love my painting videos. Just felt like I needed to say this.
Great video. Helping people manage their expectations is never a bad thing.
Thanks pal. Glad you agree.
It’s all game pieces!
They look Fantastic for the scale. I was there in 1990, these are staggeringly good.
Base. Dry brush. Wash. Spot colours. Amazing base. Job done. That’s the whole point
You pretty much just repeated what I’ve been saying in every video for the last two weeks.
I found this video helpful. I had a hunch that the tiny models would not be that great. Thank you for making an honest and clear video.
Glad it helped pal.
3mm-6mm players: "Oh you sweet summer child, what do you know about small detail?"
Hahahah
I painted Warmaster and you are absolutely right. BUT: the second you decrease your expectations, painting small scale infantry is sooo freeing and fun.
I agree so much.
This video NEEDED to exist thank you. I've been watching a lot of excitement at my local store and a lot of folks confused why I wasn't hyped for Imperialis. I think the game is fine and will be great for many but me a big thing I get from the hobby is painting, especially characters. Knowing that I knew I wouldn't get that with Imperialis, just the limitation of the scale not a bad thing but something folks need to have in mind going in.
I think there's going to be a lot of folks at my store that are going to have the disappointment you mention because I've been hearing their excitement to PAINT their armies but they have NOT been focusing on the titans or the BIG tanks the things you can do detail on.
Proper expectations going in can be very important for a game launch.
Glad you agreed with it pal. And you can have fun painting all the tanks and bigger. But forget the infantry.
It all about expectation management. The mistake that most people make when the first switch from a 32mm figure to a smaller scale (6/10/15mm) is that they don’t understand the smaller scale mini is more abstract and don’t have as much definition and don’t need detailed painting. Doesn’t matter if you’re doing 6mm 40k or Nopoleonics. The figures are meant to be looked at on the table from an arms length away not 3 inches from your eyeball with a magnifying glass.
I agree on all points pal. Well said.
Really good take. The LI starter box is my first time painting at this scale, and looking at my finished infantry up close (or at a photo of them), really drives home any mistakes I've made/issues with the sculpts (such as stretching). That being said, you're absolutely right in that from a distance/with a whole army painted, the overall effect is much better. Any issues with contrast paint, for example, being applied unevenly across an army or even an individual infantry model practically disappear when you look at a whole force. I'm taking much longer with my tanks and have already stripped each of them once due to not being happy with the results I'm getting, but I think I've cracked them now. This is my first time using contrast paints as well, so it's been a fantastic learning experience trying them on LI minis.
Glad it helped pal.
Thanks! good perspective here.
Cheers pal.
I think this was a very honest and sincere commentary.
Cheers pal.
The biggest issue im having is the very delicate and easily breakable parts; things like swords and such. I have broken many assault marines and such while trying to pick up the base
Yep it’s a bit of a pain.
I think this is really important info to remember. These tiny duders are meant to be viewed from 3-5 feet away, the way they're being shown online in super high resolution camera shots just isn't realistically how you'll see them when gaming and painting. I don't even think it's possible for human eyes to focus that well on something so small. They're meant to look good from several feet away in the dozens.
Yes indeed and I’m glad you took that from my video. Not all did lol
You just made absolute perfect sense. Great video
Appreciate that pal.
This video went in a totally different direction than what I expected. I almost didn't click on it as I anticipated a bunch of GW-bashing. Actually quite a helpful perspective.
Thanks for giving it a good chance and glad you liked it!
The fact that scale creep has moved away from 6mm to 10mm does not really change the fact that both scales have been in heavy use for historical wargames for decades. As well as many other SciFi games like Battletech, Ogre.and Dirtside II. You can paint figures for the Napoleonic wars quite nicely for 6mm. Sure you won't get the detail of full scale GW figures, but you can get the look and feel of mass formations that 28-32mm can not achieve
Absolutely agree.
I'm not supposed to be painting eyelashes on my solar auxilia? Ohhhhhhhhh.....
Hahahhaha you do you pal.
In summary: This video is important, and I encourage you to publish any video in any format that articulates your point of view, experiences, techniques, and/or intent.
In less summary: This video is very good, and does not stray from the intent of you videos (I'll take the liberty of assumption that your videos are to guide people in their painting). Straying from the technical side of painting and delving into what I can summarize as philosophy is a critical part of mentoring. I'd imagine you've got a John Carpenter's They Live vibe going on with a lot of other outlets focusing on detailing these tiny globs of plastic, but I one hundred percent agree with you. I'm honestly surprised GW has been pushing their 'detailed' epic minis this hard; because anything smaller than a dreadnought is not detailed at all. It is more shocking to me that GW revived Epic.
That’s a really nice message to read pal. Thank you so much.
This is totally correct. I’ve been painting 6mm since the early 80s (including all editions of AT / SM/ Epic) and you have to shift the way you think, its all about the army you are painting not the individual models (although as you mention with tanks etc you can really go to town). I just people aren’t disappointed with what promises to be an exciting and excellent game just because they are hamstrung by narrow thinking about how you should paint your tiny plastic dudes. That said there will be some (as in the old epic community) that do astonishing things with even really tiny infantry. One think I love is when you treat each infantry stand as a little diorama (command stands in particular), you can really tell a story
Yes and I cannot wait to see what incredible things the community as a whole is going to churn out in the next few weeks such exciting times.
The dude who made and printed a mini Lion El Johnson....hold my beer GW.
Hahahahaa nice.
@@MediocreHobbies how friggin AWESOME is that!
I think the key is realizing these are gaming pieces, not display models. I'm a gamer first and a painter/modeler second. Your videos are perfect for what I think is needed in painting these tiny models.
Yep I agree.
Nice one, Andy. The Little Fish were appalled by the GW videos and now the Xmas lock-in of Legions Imperialis is now under consideration.
It’s still going to be a great game and somthing quite fun for a holiday lock in.
Great video in my opinion. It helps manage expectations, and that’s a real service. And honesty is something YT needs more of 👍👏
Ye I think it’s an important point.
Great video. Setting expectations is incredibly important
Cheers pal.
Fully true! ! It should look good at arm length! No fancy painting needed! Glad that you said it out loud! I was saying the same thing back when I was painting epic ork hordes.
Hahaha so many orks.
I'm honestly suprised that anyone thought they could get Golden Demon quality paint jobs on 6mm figures.
People are trying lol.
@@MediocreHobbies I must admit I was a little hasty as I spoke to a guy at work today and he said the same thing that he was struggling to get the models painted to a standard he thought they needed to be. I said when we played Epic the infantry were simply done to look good enough from across the table and the larger models got the painting love.
Superb and realistic view , and don't forget "Quantity has a quality of it's own " massed mediocre painted infantry will look amazing once on the table amongst the armour and scenery.
Absolutely pal
Great video. appreciate your thoughts and opinions … honesty and integrity 👍 I have just picked up a baneblade squadron looks amazing in the flesh looking forward to getting these made and painted should be interesting to put them next to my 4 40K scale baneblade chassis …. Keep the videos coming great job 🍻👍
Cheers pal. I have my baneblades built already and there amazing. Your gonna love them.
I 100% agree.
I’ve painted about 500 6mm Cold War infantry for a game system my friends and I made - infantry are just a block colour, a dot of flesh for the face and then a black line for the gun.
My blood angels are Red, silver for the gun and then black for the backpack - with a nuln oil wash. On Zandri Dust bases they work. I’ve put about an hour and a half into each rhino though as I can actually panel line and dry brush on them.
I’d say the army is coming along very nicely.
There is a way to get epic infantry with great detail - 3D printing. I have printed Dire avengers where you can see the texture on the plumes of their helmets.
Nice.
Good video.
It still boggles my mind that, considering how extensive the range is, they didn’t make Knight Houses a full army.
Ye it is a funny choice.
I've probably painted thousands of 6-10mm minis to date. The principle for me has always been "paint the unit, not the individual minis". With teeny tiny infantry, cavalry, bikes, etc, it's all about how a base of minis looks from about 3 feet away, and making the main colours pop is the best way to achieve that. You can definitely have more fun painting tanks, titans, etc, though.
That’s a great way of putting it. And I think that mite be a key point. The legion people mite need to lean on the historical people to help them with projects like this.
@@MediocreHobbies fair point there. I think if you've been painting mostly 28mm models, and you tend to put a lot of effort into details, highlighting, etc, then switching to something so small is a shift in perspective. But once you change your view, I think it's easier to find satisfaction in painting this scale. Epic scale has always been about the visual effect of massed ranks of troops and squadrons of vehicles, it's just about painting to get that effect.
For all models less than 18/15mm it is the impression you are looking for, honestly slap chop will go a long way here
Agreed.
I was shocked when I saw the Warhammer community videos and they talked about how amazing the paint jobs were. I'm glad I was not the only person that felt the same way you did in this video! I also think perhaps one issue is all they use is GW product to paint with, so no oil washes etc.
Glad you understood, a lot of people don't seem to have watched the full video before commenting :D Good point about the GW products too though!
I notice that non-hobbyists can have this experience even at 28mm -32mm scale. Showed my nephew how to paint a chaos cultist before, we painted copies of the same model. Showed him the basics, layers, washes but I was a bit neater and experienced, did a few highlight touches at the end. Showed our work to my sister, she couldn't tell the difference 😅
That’s so cool.
good video im not getting into EPIC myself due to the size of the models...but having my expectations set at a realisitic point is really important rather than trying to drive myself bonkers doing fine details.....keep them coming
Cheers pal.
This video is exactly what I was looking for. Got me to subscribe. I like your take on that these are not supposed to be beautiful standalone models. They are supposed to me massive armies on smaller battle mats 10/10
Cheers pal. Very kind.
I think the key term to keep in mind with any models at this scale is "realistic expectations"
You got to be realistic for e what can actually be pulled off, or even seen, at this scale. Be that details or painting. And that seems to get lost in much of the discussion.
Ye that’s makes perfect sense.
Ive been playing Adeptus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis from their respective starts, and I think the infantry are perfect for what they represent at this scale. My biggest complaint is that ill have to limit myself to 2 armies, for now...
Hahaha it is a tough one. I want a tiny custodies army very badly.
Having painted many armies in 6mm, and several in 15mm, the goal is not the model itself - the thinking behind 28mm painting has to be discarded. The goal is the “mass effect look” and - as you say - doing good bases and trying to make the bases look like mini dioramas. The small size of the models looks amazing when massed together (this is true of any models in this scale).
So I feel like you’re spot on - focus on “okay” painting for the models and do up the bases nice. You can dab spots of color where you need it. It will have a look that LOOKS like a sci-fi battlefield.
Thanks for the video!
You’re very welcome, yeah focusing on the mass effect is a great way of putting it 🙌
Pretty much same rule applies as it does for flames of war. They need to look good from 4ft away not up close.
Exactly.
I thought you were right before, but today I saw some of the infantry counters (I’m not going to call them minis anymore lol) and after seeing them with my own eyes I can categorically say you are absolutely spot on and correct Andy.
I’m sure there is some nut job out there who is gonna spend months painting one of these squads with a magnifying glass and a single hair brush with perfect edge highlighting just to prove they can do it and win a golden demon. But the point is it will only be one base worth and if you then put that golden demon winning base in amongst a whole bunch of bases that you had painted (as long as they were same legion ofc) from gaming distance even normal display distance I reckon you might struggle to find the golden demon base, until you start picking them up and squinting at them individually.
Nope my mind is made up the infantry counters in epic are only one step up from terrain, they are important for helping to set the scene and sell the scale but after that they should basically blend into the scene, kinda like putting skulls on bases of 40k minis they help set the scene, but you would want someone looking at your character mini you spent several weeks painting and then complementing the skull on the base would you, it should just help sell the overall scene, and that’s what epic infantry is for imo.
Thanks for the comment pal. Appreciate you taking time to wrote it. And I’m glad. You agree.
I think they are pretty slick for the size but I get your opinion!
Oh ye there great and I love them. I just won’t be spending much time on them.
@@MediocreHobbies damn straight and I did have illusions of grandeur on how I would paint them!! I am a convert to your thinking now.
As an oldskool epic (6mm) player I think your words are a bit overly harsh.
You *do* have to adjust your expectations to 2, perhaps 3, colours per model. That'll do an satisfactory job, especially at arms length,
Fully agree on the emphasis on bases. These are factually more important in epic than the actual infantry models.
That’s fair pal.
I would agree over the years most people moving from 28mm to 6/10 try to paint them as 28mm figures. It's an easy way to drive yourself crazy . Base coat ,wash and a bold highlight is all you really need
As someone on the fence for Legion Imperialis, I very much appreciate this video, talking through your experiences and opinions.
I’m glad I could help in any small way pal.
I agree with you. I have painted 15mm figures and the very best you can do is to stimulate facial and clothing features in that scale. However because the tanks, AFVs and soft skinned vehicles are much larger the painting is far more easier. It is simply a matter of scale. The Infantry in the Legions Imperialis are scaled to the size of the tanks which would make them much small in size. I think your painting technique is the best way to go for these figures, the simpler the better and they look really good too. Thanks for sharing this.
Anytime pal.
I've loved the infantry. Prime, Oil Wash Magenta, wipe it down. Imperial fists yellow, pick out details...basing
Oh that would look so nice.
Have to say while i agree to some degree. Not totally infantry at this scale can be amazing too. It totally depends on how you as the players/ painter want to go about it.
That’s fair.
I like your honesty, I may get some epic
Cheers pal.
Agreed. My old epic infantry don't look great if you hold them to eye level, but always looked fine on the table top. I didn't have contrast paints in those days, so it was just a base coat, wash, and drybrush, and then picking out whatever details I felt comfortable with.
Ye I have the old once as well and they seam so so tiny now next to the new once o don’t know how people did it.
Epic armies are not a portrait, they are a collage
Great way to word it.
It’s also the model’s. Small scale models need to have different proportions. Look at Forest dragons 10mm stuff. It’s the same scale as LI
That makes sense. Interesting thought.
I got all my orders today and I think the infantry minis are pretty good and cute 😂
I'ma get some churned out for play and really go to town on my second formation anyway, probably pointless as you say but for my owm personal amusement 😂
There stunning models. I love them just can’t spend forever painting them.
i was about to walk up to the store to buy the box but i rather stay at home have cup of barry's and will stick to painting the 28mm worldeaters i already have thanks mate
The world eaters are a very very nice army.
Having painted a few pieces for AI, I already know what I'm getting into with legions. Once I finished painting an epic grot on one of the Ork bombers in like 18 seconds, I knew what was going on. I also loved it for what it was: The tiniest little plastic soldier I've ever painted.
I feel like a lot of people will benefit from more content hitting the internet over time, so expectations can be reeled in a little bit if nothing else. These minis are absolutely doing what they need to do, let's see how their paint jobs evolve in the coming months!
Yes I agree the models are doing what there supposed to do and I love the wording of it.
Gotta admit, despite seeing multiple videos, despite hearing you say “you won’t be able to do as much with the infantry as you think you will”, despite owning a tape measure! … these were still smaller than my brain had internalised ha ha! Got my box today, opened it up and immediately giggled when I saw how small the marines were. And then genuinely, my next thought was anger at how much crap people were giving these sculpts online. They’re so small, it doesn’t even matter ha ha! Can’t wait to see how much of a paint job I can do 🤣
Hahahah you madman. Get stuck in and show me what you can do.
It needed to be said, it IS a good video! Lord knows what it took Richard Gray to make that commander look so good, with the ittybitty glowing eyes. I'm building my first Rhino right now. No infantry arrived yet. But I am looking at the little multi-melta gunner and going "Oh my god," and having the exact same thoughts and realization. I think with some effort, you _can_ make these guys look better than the WHTV tutorials. Those death guard just don't have shit for contrast, and the Charonite sculpts just don't do anything for me in the first place. The contemptors though look fantastic. But I suspect the only way to even notice glowing eyes on a commander is going to be going cross-eyed looking at him thru magnifying glasses LOL
Yes 100%. Grey is a god but nobody is doing that army wide.
Needed to be said. They’re game pieces like pawns on a chess board. As long as they’re the legion colour all good 👍
Exactly how I feel.
I played Epic when it was still called Space Marine and I like these models a lot. The only thing stopping me from getting into it is Games Workshop only releasing games like this for a short time. It's even more disheartening when they promise to keep supporting it.
And that my worry with it being heresy based. Not really a lot to work with there.
Totally get where your coming from 👍🏻 people need to just tone down their expectations on the infantry, myself included, am just going off your guides, looking forward to seeing them on a table, bonus for me is I might actually finish a force I can play with 😂 my only concern for future is actually being able to get hold of the minis
Ye there sold out for now. Bit of a disaster.
I agree with you tbh, when I opened my box I made the prediction most people will struggle with these kits. Ecspecially when it comes to the building, priming and basing aspects.
Yeah no matter what, they’re still smaller than you think 😄
To be honest that is a the approach i take to full size miniatures...as long as I can see what it is at arms length I am happy. But that's just me.
And to me that makes Perfect sense.
So I am a long time small scale gaming guy. Small scale is totally different than 28m. Same with things like 54mm like Inquisitor.
Very true.
Small things aren't as detailed as big things. Ok. I have to get to about 10cm away before I can tell that the freehand Thousand Sons symbol on the guys shoulder pad is just a white blob with a red dot in the middle. *shrug*
I think we’re agreeing…? 😄
The GW painting videos have been awful, but some folks on YT including yourself have been doing a great job. My LI box landed yesterday and I knew the infantry were going to be small, BUT not THAT small. 3 or 4 paints max on these little fellas, and don’t sweat the small stuff 😂
That’s so kind pal thanks. I hope you get stuck in and love your box.
I remember the first time I saw Epic in White Dwarf, in #136, the infantry was painted in very simple style, to the extent that the Death Skull orks were painted all over blue, with no skin or weapon picked out. It was the same with the other ork clans. All the effort had gone into the vehicles. And this was in WD!
I dont have any point to make, just that this discussion reminded me of it.
Yeah if even white dwarf saw it the same way-focus your limited time and energy on the stuff people will see-we must be right 😄
I think it more depends on what you want to get out of the game. I've been a huge fan of 6mm ever since Epic 40k, I think its the perfect scale for 40k mass battles. But I also love playing small 6mm skirmish games and love going mad on painting & converting tiny troops. You really don't need to paint eyes and shoulder pad details if you want to play a lot of big games, but if you only interned to have a single army, or want to pour a lot of love into a single project then taking that time on the infantry is well worth it.
I won't be spending a lot of time on getting my mass battle army painted, but I'll be spending weeks on painting and converting some infantry for some stand out units or adding to my Inq6 games (Inquisitor at 6mm scale)
I do think a lot of people are going to be disappointed when they get their set, when never having seen Epic scale before they will expect the sort of results you will see online over the next few months or inside the books/official material. If anything, the abysmal painting videos from GW will have helped to temper expectations.
I think the new minis are more detailed, but no better quality than the better/upgraded plastics of the 1997 range. I think GW purposely hid the quality in their early promos, but having got mine this morning (Cheers Eire hobbies!) they are not as bad a the macro photography and online doomsayers would have us believe. It was a choice between these new dynamic poses or the old style static poses, they had to go for this style to go against what can be done in metals or 3d printing at this scale.
Appreciate you taking the time pal. Please tag me I’d you post up any converted units. I’d love to see them.
Agree with you entirely. The infantry need a different approach to painting, and the way the models are being shown (particularly on UA-cam) are giving the entirely wrong impression of the models. It's like painting a regular-sized Space Marine and zooming in on just the foot, because that's the size these minis are. They need to be seen from a distance, en masse, and they look glorious.
Yes exactly.
Is your titan falling over?
Hahah no it’s just posed walking. I had it commissioned and the guy who did it make it like that.
Mantics new Warpath game is going to be 12mm. That's a great size for Detail and Mass battle
Interesting. I mite checking out.
Something as simple as contrast + armour trim + gunmetal guns and a nice base works wonders with Epic scale, people been doing it for years still playing Epic Space Marine and Epic 40K. Doesn't necessarily look great individually but looks fantastic when there's a whole army on the field.
Also Eldar Harlequin epic 40k players are just straight up on another level. 😂 How the hell some of them manage to pull off checkered legs on epic scale infantry is humbling!
They clearly sold there souls to the painting gods.
I was dubious about LI models. I got myself a terminator squad and rhino off ebay to see how i felt about them. Now i have a chapter strength force😅 its a nice change to just put a base colour, wash then a couple bits of colour on a pauldron or the boltguns, rather than get carpal tunnel trying to paint an exalted sorcerer 😂
Hahhaha ye there great sculpts.
Not a rant mate. Fair comments
Thanks pal.
In a nutshell you're saying manage your expectations. It stands to reason you're not going to paint Epic infantry to the standard of normal 40K figure base on the fact you don't have the same real-estate to work with. Also it's like hoard armies. Do you want to be spending hours on the chaff when you'll be removing them in droves when your opponent opens fire? No. Keep it simple.
Dam straight.
I full understand where you are going with this video. When I got back into the hobby 4 years ago, I painted my tau fire warriors like single figures and not like a group of models. It is the same here, dont put effort into 200 infantry do it on the single bigger models. ❤
Exactly. Glad you agree
Its the same as epic 40k and E:A, the infantry in numbers is what makes it, not so much each model or their unit.
Having swarms or blobs of marines together 4 to 6 feet away looks... epic. You'd never want to get down close to one unit, it's just not that sort of game.
Exactly.
I deleted my previous comment because it was kinda snotty. I’ll just say that if painted properly 8mm infantry can look good and massed infantry is one of the reasons to play at this scale. Bright colors, simple shading, and impressionistic details (like the Bolter should just be black with a little silver on top). I think enough videos have been made with comparative sizes and good painting guides that people know what they are getting in to. I got my box today trying to decide what legion, the special rules vary quite a bit in usefulness. The Imperial Fists have a nice bright color and what looks like to be a very good special rule but I’d like to a use a traitor legion. Maybe emperors children and use a brighter purple or Death Guard? Putting together the tanks looks very fiddly and I am less looking forward to that.
I appreciate your new connect. Only about 5 comments out of the nearly 300 haven’t taken something positive from the video and They have all mentioned 15mm historicals. I think the thing your missing is epic is not massed ranks. It’s not 60 to 100 miniatures tightly packed onto a base. That of course will look stunning. It’s 5 marines to a base. I’m not saying there not going to look good. My channels entire purpose to to dispel fears and help people get models on the board. Thats it full stop. People who have never seen an epic game system before will be extremely nervous about the amount of models they need to use and I’m trying to manage there expectations so they can enjoy it. My video is not designed in fact my whole channel is not designed for veteran gamers who already know what there doing and need no help. If you spent two minutes reading through the comments you mite have seen the value most people got out of the video. Appreciate you coming back and I Joel you have a great time with your epic.
Thanks for deleting your previous comment, I appreciate it. I’ve made those tutorials myself, just wanted this video to remind people to manage their expectations rather than getting disheartened-can’t really see anything wrong with that 😄
If people think they can paint Epic models that look exactly like tiny 28mm models then they are simply idiots, no reason to ever think that especially by looking at the photo's. I do think that managing expectations is a reasonable thing to promote, infantry will look decent at best unless you are Richard Grey or someone like him.
Richard grey is just on another level.
It’s just GW and doing it in plastic. My 3d printed ones look stunning in comparison.
I’m sure your printed once are amazing. But if everybody printed there models the game is dead in arrival. And please don’t confuse me. I love 3D printing. Currently running 12 printers with two more on the way.
I think this is the first time I’ve ever given a video a thumbs down, and it’s simply because of your statement ( that you should not be proud of them.) You should always be proud of your artwork, even if it’s not what you expected it to be in my opinion, but again, that’s just an opinion.
Ye I get where your coming from and I could have phrased that better. I just meant that when you look down on your army with pride I don’t think it’s your infantry that will be making you feel that.
@@MediocreHobbies fair enough that is very understandable. And I definitely agree I will remove my thumbs down. Thank you for clarifying 🙏