I think this test aligns with the two guys' preferences. Todd tends to like more raw cars and Paul tends to like a bit more refinement. The fact that Paul likes the new GR86 too means it's gotten a bit more refined
@@lucky889s9 the z4 would happen wether or not Toyota was involved. Supra is a easy rebadge. the brz would not have happened without Toyota and 86 without Subaru, this car collab is completely different from the BMW Toyota collab.
@@AJBAF you're right also Toyota bought massive stocks in Fuji heavy industries (Subarus parent industrial company) so in a way it really was two jdm giants getting in bed together from the get go and they shared the effort properly.
@@aaronsanchezz It’s slower, but, the straight 6 is faster... If you want fun, the 86 is the way to go. If you want to be fast, then go for the supra with the 6 cylinder. I don’t get the point of this 4 cylinders.
@@ericbrochu6343 the 4 cyl one is good, im not arguing the frs wouldn't be more fun than the 4cyl supra but the point is for a more luxury sports car, kinda a gt car, a car you could drive across the country get awesome mpg and be comfortable in a reasonably fun nimble car.. alot more comfortably than an frs/brz. Yet still sporty and not toooo luxury like a Lexus or Infiniti or something.
Been watching these guys for a while and they have these pieces down to a science: the shots, the audio, the editing and the commentary all speak to professionalism, without being boring. They could have gone with a more contemporary look, but the simpler approach will age better without looking "so 2020." Bravo!
I'm honestly a bit surprised someone can say "that's it?" when mentioning 400lb difference. That's a lot! I'm sure the argument would sound different if we compared say a 3600lb car (think Camaro) vs 4000lb car (think Challenger). Hell, there been arguments for the V6&I4T Camaro, or I4T Mustang because of much lighter front ends over their V8 counterparts and those are way less than 400lb difference. Regardless, at $16k delta, which well over 50% of 86 base price at ~$28k, I think it's a little silly to attempt to pick between the two. That's like telling a Supra 2.0 owner to just spend over ~1.5x of their budget and just get the M2 Comp, Shelby GT350R, or just the 3.0 Supra. Well duh, but the point is you don't have the budget for it.
and for that 16K you can easily get a nice supercharger kit with a tune to deal with any power differences... and still have money to left for track days and tires.
I bought my 2019 toyota gt86 a year ago and it is an absolute joy to drive EVERY SINGLE TIME. It was the car I wanted since I was in highschool and now that I'm out of college I grabbed it. I am going forced induction in December and I am ready to love it even more. Thanks toyota 😃
Great review! Thanks for keeping the 86 / BRZ relevant while showing off the impressive Supra. The Supra is an amazing package, but I'm with Todd. The 86 is probably the most fun of any car under $30K. 50% more money for the Supra doesn't get you 50% more fun unfortunately. Paul, I appreciate how you see the nuances between the cars and how you feel Supra connects you to the car. But the 86 connects you to the road and that's what I love about it. A true everyday driver car with a raw, analog feel that is just as fun at the track as it is picking up groceries. Keep up the great work!!
The Supra is aimed at a different market than the 86. If you're a tuner or want an entry level sports car, the 86 is for you. If you want something that gets attention and has some speed, the Supra is for you.
Depends what country you are in on the pricing. The Supra 2.0 is just $10K more in my Country Norway, $75000 GR86 vs the Supra 2.0 at $86000 vs the Ford Mustang Mach- E GT at $71000 just as a reference.
I love that these cars both exist. But i wonder why Toyota used to be able to build the Celica, the MR2 and the Supra without outside help and now they can't. Also, i for one, really like the dramatic music in your videos. It's much better than other channels. Thanks for another great comparison!
Toyota can make sports cars without outside partnerships but sadly with market trends at the moment they wouldn't be able to make enough profit to justify doing it on their own.
What they said plus, it would cost a lot of money to put RnD and manufacturing towards an i6 or any other sports car without being sure that they will be able to make a profit.
@@z32luvr I slightly disagree. The 400z is based on the FM platform which is now 19 years old. Instead of sharing the development of a new platform they are recycling one that was introduced in 2001. On top of that Toyota has developed the GR yaris on their own, which is a much bigger engineering feat than anything Nissan has created in recent years.
@@Pleasantpvp MKIV supra were around $40k-$50k brand new back in the 90s. which is around $60k-$80k in todays money. And they were around 300hp stock while being heavier than the RX-7 and NSX
@@zhixci958 The RC F just doesn't look good and it is too heavy. If they put that V8 in the supra chassis then im sure alot of people will be more interested.
actually I do want the RCF ... but the issue is there are better cars to be had for the price, also if you're gonna go all in on a Lexus sports car, the LC500 has the same engine and is a fair bit nicer looking, of course looks are subjective to taste.
Everything that Todd points out about the 86, and everything he said about the FR-S that he previously owned makes me want one. I don’t care that it lacks torque and is underpowered. You can drive everywhere full throttle and when you get it on the right road it’s fantastic. You get to enjoy getting everything out of the car that it has to offer. It really is magical in the pure sports car sense, regardless of its perceived flaws. Driver engagement is everything. It’s the Miata for the real world.
Spot on. I had boiled down my purchase to either a Miata or an 86/BRZ because I wanted that feel. I went with the BRZ because it actually has a trunk, and cargo room in the rear seats. I can't stand modern cars that feel like a cloud. I want a real machine where you can feel the gears churning, and the engine's characteristics changing at every rev range. I want to feel the limit of my suspension and tire, so I know which mods to buy next. Well, I got my BRZ and I absolutely love it. Especially after modding out the torque-dip, it's the most amazing car I've ever owned. I have test driven or borrowed many sports cars, and while the acceleration of some was fun, it never made up for the sheer feel of my BRZ. One day maybe I'll supercharge it and get rid of the one niggling point I have with it. But it's absolutely magic as it is.
That is so true. I live next to the Nurburgring Nordschleife and drive my Subaru BRZ there for fun. At the Ring is a company APEX, they have a beautiful collection of cars (I'm in no way affiliated with them). They have a GT86 and a Supra and the difference is the handling on the back end. The Supra gets unstable at the back end when you push it, to a point that it becomes dangerous and scary. This point you will never reach with the GT86/BRZ, these cars will keep you confident until the very edge of what they (or you as a driver) are capable of.
@@JohnFromAccounting I disagree, when I approach a tight corner after a part that gets me up to over 100 Mph, I can enter that corner as fast as anyone who is approaching with more speed. Agreed, you don't experience the more extreme braking, but going through the corner can still be a scary thing (seen friends hold on tight).
Everyone is saying the supra is amazing in the track though.... its geometry is great for track, its also much stiffer than the 86 chassis... its not not really long enough to be a real gt car its more of a track car with gt car amenities and power... why do you think it just spanks the 86 on track? N its not all about hp, look at all the low hp track cars that dominate high hp cars.... no this comment is just pure speculation and opinion based solely on yt vids? Because you own an 86? Lol
@@aaronsanchezz Never said the supra was bad on track. But in stock form, 86 chassis is much more playful, much more precise and with better balance. For a car that is 2x the price, I would certainly hope that a supra spanks an 86 in terms of lap time! But if you think laptime is everything, then you probably should try a Mazda MX 5, or a low powered Lotus.
except all the celicas (except gen 1's) that we got in the US were terrible compared to their jdm/euro versions, we only got st/gt models in n/a fwd where everyone else got the amazing GT-Four awd turbo models that were absolutely comparable to the supra
@@ReynardCalcifius ya to bad there are no cool jdm turbo awd 86s that can compare to the supra nowadays :/ i would actually totally be down to buy the 86GT-4
Id be down with the Supra if it had a manual. But then for 43k I could buy a brand new Camaro V8 with twice the HP, great handling, and a STICK and have 8k left over in my pocket
I don't think you've ever driven a Camaro or you wouldn't use it's name in the same sentence as "great handling" but I can agree with what you said on price, HP and manual availability. I think the unmentioned parts are more telling though, namely reliability, cost of ownership and resale value. No one wants to buy a 10 y/o 100k miles Camaro. People will buy that 2012 86 all day though, and I suspect the Supra will have the same brand cache.
@@redlion145 Uhh, I'm guessing you've never driven a 6th gen Camaro SS/ZL1 1LE. It's one of the best handling cars on the road today! Just look at the reviews and lap times compared to other cars that are twice the cost and the "good handlers" that people always reference. Spoiler the 1LE is faster.
This episode literally made tears 😢. You guys are awesome. Love the way you express your feelings on the cars. It's poetry. They are both great machines. The manufacturers have achieved a lot with all the work and thought that was put in these 2 cars. The world should be thankful
This is the comparison I have been waiting for. The Supra does seem like it would be a fun car to drive but I feel like the 86 will be the more reliable car over its lifespan.
@@kylemesser I agree and don't forget about those plastic parts they put on that they don't last long either I definitely won't be buying a BMW I I stick with Hondas and Toyotas they will last way longer than the BMW
You guys must have never heard of the valve spring recall and how many people blew their motors...or the amount of boxer engines with ringland failures and thrown rods...
@@mathun5335 I would recommend you try both amd see which firs your daily lifestyle . I live in the city so the automatic is better and still delivers that fun factor.
@@MikeJones-in3uk Ok thanks, I was already looking at the auto, but everyone was telling me the auto is for sissies and to get the manual. I guess I'll go with my gut and get the automatic, I live in the city and I don't want to be driving a manual in bumper to bumper stop and go traffic. The Hakone edition looks really cool thought.
@@mathun5335 disengage clutch engage clutch disengage clutch engage clutch disengage clutch engage clutch disengage clutch engage clutch for hours every month in thick traffic. Seems like a waste of time and money buying manual just to feel more connected to traffic.
@@mathun5335 don't let people push you around . Do what your heart desire after all its your money and YOU do what ever the heck you want with it You got to have tough skin to live in this nasty world. You will have fun in the automatic . Remember, YOU got to make it fun when you operates the car regardless manual or automatic. Have a blast and be careful! And yes, the Hakone edition is FIRE ! Inside two tones and gold wheels on beautiful dark green !
Really having to pay more for the Supra is just adding insult to injury. The 86 just seems like a better car in every way except power, and the power is sufficient to me.
Shane B and then you spent more than what mr NightWing spent. The point is with the same budget, which route get you a better car at the end of the day. I agree this will be a never-ending argument but not for the reason you said. It should be because no one determines what the best car is but themselves. (Edited for typo)
I picked up a 2021 3.0 Supra a couple of weeks ago and I absolutely love it. Incredibly planted around corners and accelerates faster than anyone needs to on public roads. The active exhausts is like music to my ears too. I definitely miss the manual that I had in my WRX though. Hoping I can trade in for a manual version in several years!
@@FSXflyermaster Already talked to my dealer and they have 10 people on the wait list for the 2023 MT. Going to wait for the 2024 model or a possible GRMN edition and trade in my 2021.
@@jordanjoestar8839 Except, you know, a warranty. For those of us with just one car, it's hard to justify paying that much for someone else's problems, when a new one from a dealership comes with a worry free warranty. Just my two cents.
Hate tk say it but the base supra would annihilate an 86. Hell prob can beat a boosted 86 🤣 car is too slow for my liking if I had tk pick it'd be supra
that can shift gears in 300 milliseconds and comes with a ridiculously potent and reliable turbocharged straight six that can handle 750+ wheel hp on stock block with just bolt-ons and upgraded turbo/fuel pump* FIFY
@@ehiracheta The Supra and the Civic Type R are absolutlely the worst offenders in the car world with all the fake vents. Fake vents don't age well. give it 20 more years and we will all agree that the 86 classic body lines are timeless while the Supras fake vents and "f1 iNsPiReD dEsIgN" is going to look like shit.
in person, the supra is sexy. The camera doesn't do it justice. The 86 is more traditional. It's like comparing a beautiful face,36/24/36 Body crazy, curvy, wavy, big titties, lil' waist grown woman with confidence to a straight up & down shaped , cup A, insecure but very cute in the face 19yo.
Really wish Yota would've just thrown this power plant in the 86 and just offered the Supra with the 6! But everything is all about $ and guess some numbers guy told them it wouldn't be lucrative! Oh well. Great review as always! ✌🏽❤️✊🏽
Great video and review. As a former 86 owner I agree with everything mentioned. And one point to add is 86 is a 2+2 while the Supra is a strict 2 seater. Which means I was able to pick up my 2 kids from school in my red 86 😀
The more I watch their videos, the more I feel like Todd is speaking from my heart, while Paul just wants something luxurious and "high-end feeling". If I was to buy a sports car it would be either a Miata or a BRZ/86. Approachable is a good word, which Todd used. A measure of a good car is its agility, willingness, communication and approachability, not the "hey, look at me, I represent more than your average people mover". Also, as far as this comparison, I'll say this much. The 86 - naturally aspirated and manual transmission; the Supra - turbocharged and automatic. That alone should be the deal breaker, especially in light of everything else being very similar.
@@kamilb8232 Nah, he still wants a sports car, and while they're both capable, the Cayman is the better race track car. He still likes to get info from the car, wheels, steering. If anything I'd expect a 911 or an M2/M4/M4 to be his next car.
Having owned my FRS since 2012, I'm going to agree with Todd. Better tires (Michelin PSS) makes real magic on twisty roads and upgrading the break pads (TRD) doesn't hurt either. The design purpose of this car wasn't about straight line driving, it was drifting on the wrong tires. The most fun I've had in this car was US 129 (Tail of the Dragon) down in TN. Definitely a permanent entry on my bucket list.
Please, please, please do not continue with having music while you talk. I know a lot of channels and TV-channels do this but it severely limits the availability of the content for those of us who have hearing issues. Other than that, thank you for a great video!
Gonna have to agree with Todd here. Paul has it completely wrong when he says he would get tired of the 86 after a while. Have had my BRZ since 2014 120k miles and a few track days. Still puts a smile on my face reving out the engine and ripping through the canyons. For comparison I also have a twin turbo Z and its heaps faster. But something about the BRZ just FEELS so good and its NEVER a bore to drive.
@@calmiller3024 its 99% stock. K&n intake kit (mostly for the noise). Shifter and good tires. Still on stock suspension. Plan on finally getting an exhaust this Christmas (again for noise) and maybe headers to get rid of the torque dip. But, even stock its so much fun to drive. Drive it almost everyday and its never a bore.
@@joelness the Toyota Celica have been a FWD/AWD car since 40 years ago, it wouldn't make much sense to change that now. The gt86 is a lightweight, sporty, fun car; just as the original ae86 is. If Toyota decides to bring up the Celica name, it should be a turbo AWD car (i may be a little bit fan of rally celicas 🤣🤣)
@@CarlosGarcia-ze6rt the AE86 was a Corolla. If it makes sense to have the 86 as an homage to that car, it makes sense for it to be one to the RWD Celicas too - the Corolla went FWD before the Celica even did. The Celica was never an economy car like the AE86 was. Thus it makes more sense to consider the 86 as a successor to the Celica. The "86" name would make much more sense on a high-performance Corolla variant, maybe competing with the Civic Si.
The Supra compared to the current 86 is in a great spot. If the new 86 keeps what made it good but gets more horsepower then it becomes a very different story. The Supra will need some upgrades if it wants to compete with a souped up 86.
The driving position and interior ergonomics of the 86/BRZ was the number one thing that made me like driving it more than my ND. It has so much more room, and you take that for granted until you’re in the current Miata, which is still a better car in several other ways. I have no interest in the current Supra, but I am excited for the next gen of the 86.
lo ko Steering feel yes, suspension not sure how you mean. The Miata has a true double wishbone front suspension. The 86 has struts. The geometry overall is superior on the Miata. The 86 has more roll stiffness but as far as suspension capability the Miata wins even if the Bilstein shocks are overdamped for the soft springs. The damping on the 86 is nothing special.
lo ko It’s not as fast anymore after the 2019 Miata got tuned up to 181hp from 155. The Miata is seriously quick now. The body roll is intentional, but it’s easily corrected.
lo ko You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means... better chassis is subjective in your case, you prefer how the 86 handles. I also would pick the 86 because I’ve already had the ND, even over the 181hp version. The Miata steering doesn’t have nearly as much feel, it’s too small, too cramped, and is a roadster more than a traditional sports car. But it’s still a bespoke chassis whereas the 86 is a modified Impreza. I just know how Mazda engineered the car (first hand conversations with Dave Coleman with my former employer), and objectively it’s superior. For example, the ND is now regularly beating S2000 times in autocross. Take away the roll and put on sticky tires it’s a beast.
yess and with the new motor, the extra 30 000$ is no more justify for only 27 more HP. I mean you can do some modification and reach 255hp with wayyy less than 30k in the BRZ...
Thank you for this really great comparison and in depth and sensitive analysis! Really great job! What can still be improved is showing driver's perspective instead of the driver himself. Driver's perspective is always captivating to the viewer while nobody is interested in seeing a guy sitting in a car.
@@rousseau327 there are no direct rivals to the 86/brz. Faster hot hatches yes, convertible mx5 yes but nothing FR, manual, coupe with 2 baby seats in the back.
@@daphenom45 they are not sports cars. And if you insist only if you live in the USA where prices might be similar(?). In the UK a mustang 2.3 is at least 10grand more.
I will always love my 86, its simple and just flows through windy back roads. You can feel the slight understeer disappear when you mash it without completely wrecking your car, and it hits 120mph on highways within a reasonable time/distance. All of it at 22mpg too!
Thank you for this review; I drive a '12 BRZ and I want the sound of a 6 cylinder supra. However, what Todd says resonates with me: the BRZ/GT86 engages you to extract its potential. I am a bit afraid that the Supra, once the power thrills wear down, won't be as good.
Nate Crabtree I get that, but the 86 is super practical, it can be your daily and only car no problem. Way cheaper to maintain also and to work on. And then there’s the beauty of modding your car the way you want it Also there’s a vid by Chris Harris comparing a Cayman a BRZ and a 370z, worth a watch
Difference between the Subaru and BMW engineers and designers. Toyota did very little for these engines, interiors and body panels. I do appreciate that I have a Toyota dealer much closer for any warranty issue, compared to the Subaru and BMW dealers farther away and maybe more expensive for any repair out of warranty. For the Subies change the engine coolant early and add AT-205 reseal to the engine oil and coolant, to prevent early head gasket problems.
Watching that shift knob vibrate around in the 86 reminded me of what I hated about mine. It just felt slapped together and that FA20D was coarse as hell.
All shifters that are mounted directly to the transmission will do this. If you're used to vague cable driven shifters, yeah, it'll feel odd, but a direct link is always preferred in a real sports car.
Any direct link shifters will do this, F22C is smooth as butter and even its shifter vibrates, any shifter that doesn't is either cable linked or highly dampened.
Toyota shouldn't go out on the town with other car companies more. Toyota needs to stay home and drunk alone and make a sports car all by themselves. If tiny Nissan can make a new 400Z alone, Toyota can too.
The 400z is still on the 370z chassis, and it uses an engine from an existing line. That's why they can do it. Toyota simply doesn't have the correct parts bin to economically design a sports car, hence the colabs.
@@zublits it does have the correct parts bin though. It's got a few EXCELLENT chassis to choose from including the 86 Chassis, which is basically the exact same size as the Z4 chassis, and their lexus chassis. When it comes to the engine I doubt it would be that hard to take the 2JZ and modernize it with modern tech to make it a 3JZ. Toyota does have the parts bin, but they're lazy.
WhatIWant i don’t think you understand the engineering that goes into revamping an old engine that’s inefficient at multiple levels. It’s not as simple as “modernizing it”, having said that, Toyota does have the budget to develop such an engine but they don’t like compromising profits. They are a company driven by profits and if profits don’t hit the check marks they won’t consider the “investment of development”
@@whatiwant8898 that's not how that works. The 2jz is already 20+ years old. Even if they used the same design it will still need a ton of R&D money to modernize it. Also the 86 chassis is made for the 86. The designer himself didnt want to put a turbo on the car because it will disrupt the balance. What makes you think they'll put a inline 6 in there and call it a supra. The 2nd gen 86 is already confirmed to use a new chassis. Btw stop using Nissan as an example that company is going down.
Owned an FRS. Own a Cayman now. Dare I say the 86 was more fun? There’s something about redlining every gear to the speed limit even if there’s a soccer mom casually passing you while sipping an iced latte. That being said, I think the 86 chassis is the best there is this side of $60k. Another thing to take into consideration is the 86 valve spring recall. It was bad enough watching the Toyota technicians scratch there heads at a Subaru boxer engine. Can you imagine bringing a BMW into a Toyota dealership for service? I’m going with the 86 here.
I’d go for the 86 if I had to choose. Plus when the second gen comes out with supposedly according to the rumors 2.5l n/a with a manual. All it needs is a tune to make it a screamer sporty car👌🏽
I believe good sticky tires are the best modification for handling due to oem suspension are so good now.. on any performance car 200hp can be a blast of its done right.. this is coming from someone who drives a 700hp Mustang GT with 305 square.. a great tire is my best handling purchase.. great content
Todd Likes the purist, raw fun and Paul likes the "German" refinement. What else is new? Bottom line is whichever of this car I could own I'd feel lucky. Yeah the Supra is cheaper Z4 that look special. I'm sure I could do long distance in the Supra without getting exhaisted by the droning exhaust note in the 86 but both cars are just special. And then there's the toyota reliability in the equation.
Savagese did this, and his results weren't great. He could never get the heat out of the engine bay and ultimately sold it because he wasn't happy with the result. Although he's never happy with anything....
@@jwb4bb He was also an early adapter and there were not many kits on the market then. Now there are far superior kits such as Edelbrock, Harrop, and Jackson Racing. There are plenty of venting options now, too. So OP or whoever can still have a pretty reliable car with more oomph.
@@jwb4bb unfortunately in his case as an early adopter some of the products he installed went through improvements afterwards as time went on. Jackson racing and edelbrock superchargers are pretty bullet proof when combined with a quality tune. That said the engine was never built to be boosted.
@@TrevForPresident They still make decent HP/Torque numbers while being reliable and easy to work on . Toyota has the M15 engine that could easily be on the FRS for a lower cost
gvi341984 I had to look that up. Did you just reference a Yaris 3 cylinder engine with 118 ponies? Could that even be packaged for RWD? Just seems like people are stuck in the 90s when they think of Toyota and performance capabilities.
@@TrevForPresident All these engines could be mated to a RWD transmission if Toyota put some effort. Reliability? Flat engines are a pain to work on and the Supra uses plastic BMW vanos system. I4 Toyota engines are easy to work on without any problem
@@gvi341984 The flat engine's benefit is low center of gravity. Vanos should be fine unless you flash a 13 PSI engine to push closer to 20. My point is that Toyota doesn't make any modern low-end torque, high revving, high output engines now beyond the huge 5.0 in the RC F and even that's a, wonderful, relic from 2004. Toyota doesn't have a modern 2zz equivalent or anything that punches in performance car class. Could they put in a lot of work and make one and mate it to RWD? Sure. Will they? Recent history indicates no since we're not even going to get the GR Yaris which is a damn shame.
I like to daily drive every car I had. and the 86 will be my choice. 1. even tho Toyota colaborated w Subie, the 86 its still a Toyota. 2. the 86 will have a guarantee of a Japanese reliability. 3. new Supra is a BMW edit: I still won't buy an 86, Miata is still a better choice n more fun 2 drive.
The flat 4 in the 86 is all Subaru, and they have not been the paragon of reliability. And BMW certainly hasn't either. I wouldn't bet on either being a long term reliable car.
@@Azmodan911 my cousin bought a GT86 in 2013. he always used it as a daily car and sometimes he bring it to the difting track. from wht he said, he never had a single trouble with the 2.0L NA Boxer. and also EJ25 will be reliable af if u keep it stock or just tuning it well. my bro have a 400HP 2016 STI and never have a single trouble w the car.
@@Azmodan911 the thing with BMW engines is that they're not bad, the engines themselves are good, it's everything around them that breaks like the electrics or water pump for instance.
I've owned an 86 (FR-S actually) for 6 years and it's an amazing car. Kept it for that long as I had not find a worthy replacement/upgrade....that is until the Supra 2.0 made an appearance. Already gave a deposit and can't hardly wait for it to arrive on Canadian soil
The reason I am more fond of the BRZ/86 is that Toyota and Subaru worked together to make a car that none of them already had. While on the other hand it felt like Toyota just jumped on with BMW for a car that they already had their lineup. I’m not saying the new supra is a bad car, it’s just I don’t feel the same way about it.
People can say what they want but yeah, the 3.0 is absurdly fast. 0-60 as low as 3.7 seconds, you're getting hellcat speeds but for 10k less and without all the tire melting
Why should Toyota spend expensive RnD time to develop expensive engines for niche cars that will not sell that much when they can purchase suitable and proven motors from other manufacturers in order to keep production cost and overall cost of these cars lower?
Leonidae, it’s about brand bragging rights. Look at Mitsubishi. It’s dead because it has no interesting car. Most people don’t want to a buy car from a boring brand. The Korean is pushing hard on sport cars right now, because it tries to take advantage while Japanese car manufacturers are taking aback.
@@RomanticPopPunk if they wanted bragging rights it wouldn't be a "cheap affordable sports car", just look at Nissan and the GTR. besides they already did it with the LFA and they lost money for every sale made. Now the LFA is only increasing in value because of how good it is. Just face the facts sports cars don't sell because enthusiasts who wants sports car are only a small fraction of the market and we want different things not to mention the fact that most of us buy used which again limits the sale of brand new models which means less profit. Also mitsubishi isn't dead because it killed the EVO, it's dead because it never gainer profit. Mitsubishi dominated in dakar with their Pajero Then the EVO dominated WRC for 4 straight years starting in 96 then did it again in european hill climb in the span of 10 years. Then 9x in FIA international hill climb. But the EVO still died. Why? Because Not enough enthusiasts bought it.
I chose the 86, twice. I've owned a '13 FRS, and now a Hakone. Stage 2 tune with a header, Bilstein coilovers, and Michelin P4S 245/35-17s on lightweight 8" wheels are all I needed to get the 86 where I wanted it, and there's a of of change left over, plus the weight and MT. The more I drive it, the more I like it. :)
Do they ? Cuz the gtr been automatic... its also 120k... and 370z car cant compete with a 3 mod supra... talk to me when they come out with the turbo one... plus Nissan sucks... skylines blew from oil starvation and gtr transmissions fail all day... Nissan making their own cars isn't a good thing hahahah less reliable than bmw hahahah thats saying something haha
@@aaronsanchezz Nearly every car in the class of the GT-R is automatic only so your point is rather um pointless, as for the 370z you can buy 2 new ones for the price dealerships are charging for even the base Supra, they come with a manual and they have had 11 years on the market to prove their reliability while the BMW B58 is relatively new and unproven in the long-term. BMW still ranks below Nissan/Infiniti in nearly every consumer reporting website and if you think the Skyline had oil issues oh my sweet summer child go do some reading on BMW's V8 motors. As for modifications yeah the Supra is a better tuning platform, but you could strap a pair of turbos to a 370z for the same amount of money it would take to get a 2L Supra, which the 370z is faster stock to begin with. And with all of that said the 400z is right around the corner, has a manual and the twin-turbo V6 from the Q50/60 which is pound for pound every bit as good as the B58 from BMW and its a genuine Nissan product.
@@aaronsanchezz No every outlet that tracks long-term reliability, at worst BMW and Nissan are comparable in terms of over-all reliability which is damn shameful on the part of BMW because Nissan has been plagued by CVT troubles for nearly 10 years which have only just gotten fixed. Also nice dodge I'm sure no one noticed you avoided talking about any of the other half dozen points I raised.
@@BigHeadClan if you understood how the world and car industry worked you would realize why lol im not here to teach you about cars kid. good luck in life.
I had a BRZ and was looking for a faster car. Looked at a Supra and my wife said it best: “looks amazing from more than 30 feet away”. All the creases and vents sort of ruin what is otherwise a very well-proportioned car. And the drive was great, but you can’t put the damn windows down. If i had to choose between the Supra and a BRZ, I’d go BRZ. As it was, I went with a Gen V Viper.
As a grad student, I thought Miata or Accord Coupe V6 was my afforadable entry into enthusiast driving. But now the 86/BRZ is more on my radar than before. So now my question is, 86 or Miata? Also, can the Miata still be drivable in mild winter climates?
I own both. I recommend to test drive both for pros and cons. Miata is without a doubt the more fun car. It's almost 500lb lighter than the 86 with same torque output and comes lower in the RPM range. It actually feels much faster and eager to accelerate. The chassis is significantly more playful to toss the car around. I'd argue the shifter is better, but more importantly, the clutch is unquestionably significantly better than the atrocious and non-linear 86 clutch. Interior, while by no means luxurious, feels far more modern than the dated 86 which looks like its from the 90s. And let's not forget taking the top down for a spirited drive or track day is nothing short of absolutely awesome, but it's s also more expensive than the 86. But as Todd pointed out, the 86 is more livable daily and I use it as my daily (including MI winters). You can legitimately carry a lot of things in it when seats are folded (4 wheels easy). By no means its a quiet car, but far quieter than the Miata at freeway speeds. Seating position is far better as you sit lower, with better seats, and better steering position. If you're over 6 feet tall you will still fit unlike thr Miata. Suspension overall is much better too. Car feels flatter but it's also better dampened. I have the 2016 ND1 with Bilsteins and those are way over-dampened and can be pretty harsh on bumpy roads. That being said, I've heard Mazda set them up differently for later model years to be more compliant. I hate this engine though. In combination with the unpleasant clutch, it's a legtimate deal breaker that I realized too late. Cannot emphasize how bad the torque dip is and how little torque it has for the weight of the car. I'm gonna only hold onto it until the next 86 or WRX is out. Or if I get impatient, get a used M235i or current WRX which was surprisingly super fun with an old school feeling laggy turbo (would need some suspension and sway bar mods to help it rotate better though). Never took my Miata out during winter, but I'd imagine it would be similar in handling the snow. I put blizzaks on the 86 but you still need to be careful. These cars like to oversteer and even with their low power they can be little twitchy in winter and will need to be driven more cautiously than FWD or AWD vehicle. I wouldn't even try without winter tires either.
I'm also a grad student, and just bought a used BRZ. My buddy has a ND1 miata club. Personally I like my BRZ better coz I prefer the flat, solid feel of the 86/BRZ. No doubt the ND Miata has a more potent chassis, smoother engine and better shifter/clutch, but it's just too impractical to be my only car. I also don't want to drive a convertible in the Michigan winter. The 86 is way more practical on the other hand. Plus I think the BRZ has the best steering feel in all the EPS unit I experienced. I just cannot stop smiling every time I jump in my BRZ.
@@kamilb8232 Thanks for the insights. Thankfully I currently own an 08 Accord so I could get away with owning a Miata for the driver friendly months in the DMV area. I would definitely test drive both first. I'll would love to feel how the 86 handles. What I'm looking for is that fun to drive factor. I want to know what satisfying turn-in and handling feels like, even around town. Speed is nice, but not everything cause eventually you'll get to 80, right? The only time I ever really need my car to be practical is when I'm moving stuff, but the Accord does an okay job with that. I guess if I had to own only one, 86. But if I can get away with owning two cars in my mid 20's, I might still answer that call to at least try owning a Miata once in my life. Thanks again for all the info.
Great review! Having these two opposite opinions/conclusions made "something for everybody" here too. I only wish there was less of the dramatic music, especially when you are talking. It gets in the way imo.
doabarrellroll 69 its not about superior or inferior! Its about jdm/euro/US... Toyota should be a Toyota and should be made in Japan! If i wanted to drive a bmw i would buy a bmw... btw! I would take a lexus over a Beemer any day! In and out! But i am biased to Japanese cars
Running costs of the 86 are much lesser cost of ownership than the supra I think. Plus on initial cost if you were to put the 16k into the sea of high quality aftermarket parts for the 86 to dial it in you’d have a better car then and still with lesser running costs. Add on top of that the engagement of a manual which is legit part of the value prop for many sports car drivers. The supra is gorgeous and a wonderful status car with some nice road chops but I’d be more excited to build the 86 than to just own the supra. But both are great for the right buyer.
The 86 CANNOT be considered a front mid engine car. The engine sits a little ahead of the front struts. It has to sit behind it to be considered a FR. come on mang!
And I love how you have 2 guys with different opinions on the same cars, with that back to back style delivery. It's great.
Glad you like what we do. Thanks for watching!
I think this test aligns with the two guys' preferences. Todd tends to like more raw cars and Paul tends to like a bit more refinement. The fact that Paul likes the new GR86 too means it's gotten a bit more refined
They are half brothers, one has Japanese mom, one has German mom.
I think you mean they were adopted. They are just rebadged and renamed Subaru and BMW on birth certificate.
@@lucky889s9 you mean toyota, not bmw. The car is rebadged as a Toyota but is a BMW.
@@imtheonehero9305 exactly what I'm saying. Toyota just rebadged Subaru brz and BMW as their own...
@@lucky889s9 the z4 would happen wether or not Toyota was involved. Supra is a easy rebadge. the brz would not have happened without Toyota and 86 without Subaru, this car collab is completely different from the BMW Toyota collab.
@@AJBAF you're right also Toyota bought massive stocks in Fuji heavy industries (Subarus parent industrial company) so in a way it really was two jdm giants getting in bed together from the get go and they shared the effort properly.
The 86 have an handbrake, plus its manual.
That already makes it more interesting. I have the Scion FRS and I love it
But its soooo much slower not only in drag but on a track too... plus the manual will come out for the supra in a year or two anyway...
@@aaronsanchezz It’s slower, but, the straight 6 is faster... If you want fun, the 86 is the way to go. If you want to be fast, then go for the supra with the 6 cylinder. I don’t get the point of this 4 cylinders.
@@ericbrochu6343 the 4 cyl one is good, im not arguing the frs wouldn't be more fun than the 4cyl supra but the point is for a more luxury sports car, kinda a gt car, a car you could drive across the country get awesome mpg and be comfortable in a reasonably fun nimble car.. alot more comfortably than an frs/brz. Yet still sporty and not toooo luxury like a Lexus or Infiniti or something.
Yeah and if you could spend that difference in price and put it into the 86 then it's a manual and about the same power.
I've been waiting soooooo long for this one. I don't have MotorTrend channel. Great comparision!
I canceled motor trend channel save your money 💰
@@richardmahoney9415 I had it from june 2019 - june 2020..didn't renew. Just wasn't enough content that I wanted to watch.
Glycerin same here I had to cancel multiple times before they stopped charging my card also
Been watching these guys for a while and they have these pieces down to a science: the shots, the audio, the editing and the commentary all speak to professionalism, without being boring. They could have gone with a more contemporary look, but the simpler approach will age better without looking "so 2020." Bravo!
What is a 'more contemporary look'?
Now that the new BRZ is unveiled, I'd love to see you guys re-do this video when you have a chance!
I’m still waiting to see what Toyota does with their aesthetics
I'm honestly a bit surprised someone can say "that's it?" when mentioning 400lb difference. That's a lot! I'm sure the argument would sound different if we compared say a 3600lb car (think Camaro) vs 4000lb car (think Challenger). Hell, there been arguments for the V6&I4T Camaro, or I4T Mustang because of much lighter front ends over their V8 counterparts and those are way less than 400lb difference.
Regardless, at $16k delta, which well over 50% of 86 base price at ~$28k, I think it's a little silly to attempt to pick between the two. That's like telling a Supra 2.0 owner to just spend over ~1.5x of their budget and just get the M2 Comp, Shelby GT350R, or just the 3.0 Supra. Well duh, but the point is you don't have the budget for it.
You speaking facts here brother
Agreed. Well said
Great argument. Also you can alway tune the 86 and put some bigger tires on it since you save some money
With money saved (assuming you got the 86) you could force induction path and you will be faster on a lighter car and the fridge will be full
and for that 16K you can easily get a nice supercharger kit with a tune to deal with any power differences... and still have money to left for track days and tires.
That green 86 is my dream car. Maybe I'll be able to pick one up used in few years.
Did you end up getting one?
I bought my 2019 toyota gt86 a year ago and it is an absolute joy to drive EVERY SINGLE TIME. It was the car I wanted since I was in highschool and now that I'm out of college I grabbed it. I am going forced induction in December and I am ready to love it even more. Thanks toyota 😃
Great review! Thanks for keeping the 86 / BRZ relevant while showing off the impressive Supra. The Supra is an amazing package, but I'm with Todd. The 86 is probably the most fun of any car under $30K. 50% more money for the Supra doesn't get you 50% more fun unfortunately. Paul, I appreciate how you see the nuances between the cars and how you feel Supra connects you to the car. But the 86 connects you to the road and that's what I love about it. A true everyday driver car with a raw, analog feel that is just as fun at the track as it is picking up groceries. Keep up the great work!!
As an 86 owner myself i couldn't agree more!
The Supra is aimed at a different market than the 86. If you're a tuner or want an entry level sports car, the 86 is for you. If you want something that gets attention and has some speed, the Supra is for you.
Depends what country you are in on the pricing. The Supra 2.0 is just $10K more in my Country Norway, $75000 GR86 vs the Supra 2.0 at $86000 vs the Ford Mustang Mach- E GT at $71000 just as a reference.
In Australia the entry-level Supra is almost triple the price of the entry-level 86 ($32k vs $84k).
Ewwwww.. 49k usd here
In my country, they stopped selling the 86 after releasing the Supra :P
Cause they're scared 😅
In my country they never sold 86 or Supra. And Subaru sold BRZ for a couple of years.
I have only seen three Supra on the road since it came out. Don’t know how is it going in other regions
What? You can find them from 73k usd in Aus.
I love that these cars both exist. But i wonder why Toyota used to be able to build the Celica, the MR2 and the Supra without outside help and now they can't. Also, i for one, really like the dramatic music in your videos. It's much better than other channels. Thanks for another great comparison!
Toyota can make sports cars without outside partnerships but sadly with market trends at the moment they wouldn't be able to make enough profit to justify doing it on their own.
People used to buys sports cars back then. Sales of brand new sports cars are not what they used to be so it's hard for brands to justify.
naysunhuang Nissan thinks otherwise
What they said plus, it would cost a lot of money to put RnD and manufacturing towards an i6 or any other sports car without being sure that they will be able to make a profit.
@@z32luvr I slightly disagree. The 400z is based on the FM platform which is now 19 years old. Instead of sharing the development of a new platform they are recycling one that was introduced in 2001. On top of that Toyota has developed the GR yaris on their own, which is a much bigger engineering feat than anything Nissan has created in recent years.
Toyota fanbois: we want toyota to make their sports car with their own engine.
**Toyota makes RCF with a toyota v8**
Toyota fanbois: i dont want it.
Its a $60k car with mustang level performance
@@Pleasantpvp MKIV supra were around $40k-$50k brand new back in the 90s. which is around $60k-$80k in todays money. And they were around 300hp stock while being heavier than the RX-7 and NSX
And lotus uses toyota engines
@@zhixci958 The RC F just doesn't look good and it is too heavy. If they put that V8 in the supra chassis then im sure alot of people will be more interested.
actually I do want the RCF ... but the issue is there are better cars to be had for the price, also if you're gonna go all in on a Lexus sports car, the LC500 has the same engine and is a fair bit nicer looking, of course looks are subjective to taste.
I like how Todds hair *pendulums* back and forth as he carves through curves like an airfreshener swinging off a mirror.
I"m looking forward to the day he goes bald.
@@HC7-MA Let the man enjoy the hair he has while he has it lol. It looks well taken care of at least.
Everything that Todd points out about the 86, and everything he said about the FR-S that he previously owned makes me want one. I don’t care that it lacks torque and is underpowered. You can drive everywhere full throttle and when you get it on the right road it’s fantastic. You get to enjoy getting everything out of the car that it has to offer. It really is magical in the pure sports car sense, regardless of its perceived flaws. Driver engagement is everything. It’s the Miata for the real world.
Spot on. I had boiled down my purchase to either a Miata or an 86/BRZ because I wanted that feel. I went with the BRZ because it actually has a trunk, and cargo room in the rear seats. I can't stand modern cars that feel like a cloud. I want a real machine where you can feel the gears churning, and the engine's characteristics changing at every rev range. I want to feel the limit of my suspension and tire, so I know which mods to buy next. Well, I got my BRZ and I absolutely love it. Especially after modding out the torque-dip, it's the most amazing car I've ever owned. I have test driven or borrowed many sports cars, and while the acceleration of some was fun, it never made up for the sheer feel of my BRZ. One day maybe I'll supercharge it and get rid of the one niggling point I have with it. But it's absolutely magic as it is.
You should probably track them. Supra is a much better GT/Sports Road car, the 86 is a far better chassis for actual drivers who can exploit it.
That is so true. I live next to the Nurburgring Nordschleife and drive my Subaru BRZ there for fun. At the Ring is a company APEX, they have a beautiful collection of cars (I'm in no way affiliated with them). They have a GT86 and a Supra and the difference is the handling on the back end. The Supra gets unstable at the back end when you push it, to a point that it becomes dangerous and scary. This point you will never reach with the GT86/BRZ, these cars will keep you confident until the very edge of what they (or you as a driver) are capable of.
@@rickd955 But the 86/BRZ is slower so you can't get to the speeds where it gets scary.
@@JohnFromAccounting I disagree, when I approach a tight corner after a part that gets me up to over 100 Mph, I can enter that corner as fast as anyone who is approaching with more speed. Agreed, you don't experience the more extreme braking, but going through the corner can still be a scary thing (seen friends hold on tight).
Everyone is saying the supra is amazing in the track though.... its geometry is great for track, its also much stiffer than the 86 chassis... its not not really long enough to be a real gt car its more of a track car with gt car amenities and power... why do you think it just spanks the 86 on track? N its not all about hp, look at all the low hp track cars that dominate high hp cars.... no this comment is just pure speculation and opinion based solely on yt vids? Because you own an 86? Lol
@@aaronsanchezz Never said the supra was bad on track. But in stock form, 86 chassis is much more playful, much more precise and with better balance. For a car that is 2x the price, I would certainly hope that a supra spanks an 86 in terms of lap time! But if you think laptime is everything, then you probably should try a Mazda MX 5, or a low powered Lotus.
Ultimately I think it's awesome that they have both of these and they're so different.
Its the old Celica and Supra comparison all over again....go Celica.
except all the celicas (except gen 1's) that we got in the US were terrible compared to their jdm/euro versions, we only got st/gt models in n/a fwd where everyone else got the amazing GT-Four awd turbo models that were absolutely comparable to the supra
Nah it's AE86 Corolla vs Mk2 Celica Supra
What's a Celica? 😂 Toyota gave up on that just in time.
@@ReynardCalcifius ya to bad there are no cool jdm turbo awd 86s that can compare to the supra nowadays :/ i would actually totally be down to buy the 86GT-4
I don't even consider US version Celicas sports cars. They were front wheel drive economy cars that were just made to look fast.. kind of
As an owner of the 86 you guys have no clue how much magic is in the handling and cornering of these cars. Appreciate what you can!
Id be down with the Supra if it had a manual. But then for 43k I could buy a brand new Camaro V8 with twice the HP, great handling, and a STICK and have 8k left over in my pocket
Could get a used C7 Corvette for that too, although it'd probably have 40k miles or not a lot of options at that price. And it comes in manual
Agree get a brand new SS 1LE $40k if one of these was there these guys would've agreed 100%
I don't think you've ever driven a Camaro or you wouldn't use it's name in the same sentence as "great handling" but I can agree with what you said on price, HP and manual availability. I think the unmentioned parts are more telling though, namely reliability, cost of ownership and resale value. No one wants to buy a 10 y/o 100k miles Camaro. People will buy that 2012 86 all day though, and I suspect the Supra will have the same brand cache.
@@redlion145 doesn't handle go drive a 1LE report back please I'll be waiting here. Other stuff I'll agree with you on
@@redlion145 Uhh, I'm guessing you've never driven a 6th gen Camaro SS/ZL1 1LE. It's one of the best handling cars on the road today! Just look at the reviews and lap times compared to other cars that are twice the cost and the "good handlers" that people always reference. Spoiler the 1LE is faster.
It's as if this channel just can't go a few months without doing the 86 ever since it came out. I love that lol
This episode literally made tears 😢. You guys are awesome. Love the way you express your feelings on the cars. It's poetry. They are both great machines. The manufacturers have achieved a lot with all the work and thought that was put in these 2 cars. The world should be thankful
Glad you enjoyed this so much and connect with what we do. Thank you for watching!
This is the comparison I have been waiting for. The Supra does seem like it would be a fun car to drive but I feel like the 86 will be the more reliable car over its lifespan.
I have a 2016 Frs and never had a single issue.
@@SilverMoon1134 but it's true BMWs do not have the longevity life of a Toyota or Subaru that's just a known fact
God of destruction diecast BMW engines have always been reliable. It’s the BMW electronics that seem to be a killer.
@@kylemesser I agree and don't forget about those plastic parts they put on that they don't last long either I definitely won't be buying a BMW I I stick with Hondas and Toyotas they will last way longer than the BMW
You guys must have never heard of the valve spring recall and how many people blew their motors...or the amount of boxer engines with ringland failures and thrown rods...
I have never driven a supra but I have the 86 and after 3 years I can fully say I truly enjoy driving my automatic 86 , still .
Would you recommend an auto? Or is it pretty much required in a manual?
@@mathun5335 I would recommend you try both amd see which firs your daily lifestyle . I live in the city so the automatic is better and still delivers that fun factor.
@@MikeJones-in3uk Ok thanks, I was already looking at the auto, but everyone was telling me the auto is for sissies and to get the manual. I guess I'll go with my gut and get the automatic, I live in the city and I don't want to be driving a manual in bumper to bumper stop and go traffic. The Hakone edition looks really cool thought.
@@mathun5335 disengage clutch engage clutch disengage clutch engage clutch disengage clutch engage clutch disengage clutch engage clutch for hours every month in thick traffic. Seems like a waste of time and money buying manual just to feel more connected to traffic.
@@mathun5335 don't let people push you around . Do what your heart desire after all its your money and YOU do what ever the heck you want with it You got to have tough skin to live in this nasty world. You will have fun in the automatic . Remember, YOU got to make it fun when you operates the car regardless manual or automatic. Have a blast and be careful! And yes, the Hakone edition is FIRE ! Inside two tones and gold wheels on beautiful dark green !
Really having to pay more for the Supra is just adding insult to injury. The 86 just seems like a better car in every way except power, and the power is sufficient to me.
I never complain about the power of the 86 you either drive it hard or you don’t it’s a great driver car
They said supra handles better =/
@@PRTube01 maybe because wider better tires
Problem solved, If the new GR86 gets rid of the midrange power hump (assuming bigger engine weight is minor).
@@psewgobind off the shelf tune for $400 fixes that.
you can take that 16 grand and make the 86 way better than the supra...
AFTERMARKET.
If that was your goal yes . But then i could spend money on the Supra and make it better than your + 16k 86. That logic will never end.
@@Krushe Bingo.
Shane B and then you spent more than what mr NightWing spent. The point is with the same budget, which route get you a better car at the end of the day. I agree this will be a never-ending argument but not for the reason you said. It should be because no one determines what the best car is but themselves. (Edited for typo)
You can make the 86 faster with 16g but you cant change the interior or styling with only 16g. so faster yes, but not completely “better”
Until you blow it up cause you boosted it to make up for the lack of power.
I picked up a 2021 3.0 Supra a couple of weeks ago and I absolutely love it. Incredibly planted around corners and accelerates faster than anyone needs to on public roads. The active exhausts is like music to my ears too.
I definitely miss the manual that I had in my WRX though. Hoping I can trade in for a manual version in several years!
Do you still want a manual supra?
@@FSXflyermaster Already talked to my dealer and they have 10 people on the wait list for the 2023 MT. Going to wait for the 2024 model or a possible GRMN edition and trade in my 2021.
I love how they contradict each other all the time. Lol
He said “Step brothers”. I think he means “half brothers”
Was literally thinking the same thing, hardly matters though.
Honestly Papa Toyota is a bigamist - he's got two wives (Subaru/BMW) and he hasn't divorced either one... lol
Don't forget the Lotus Elise/ Exige are also the bastard children of Toyota having 2ZZ-GE engines.
BRZ/86 all day. Got a new BRZ 2019 Limited for 29K even while the supra is 40K just for the 2 liter. Just a better deal to me
You should've just got an S2000 at that price. Superior in every metric, including its rising value.
@@jordanjoestar8839 Except, you know, a warranty. For those of us with just one car, it's hard to justify paying that much for someone else's problems, when a new one from a dealership comes with a worry free warranty. Just my two cents.
Same! Series.gray w/performance package love it.....!!
Hate tk say it but the base supra would annihilate an 86. Hell prob can beat a boosted 86 🤣 car is too slow for my liking if I had tk pick it'd be supra
@@IReahpZz You won't get a brand new Supra for 29k. It's not a comparison worth making.
Enthusiasts to Toyota: give us a successor to the MK4
Toyota: here's an automatic BMW wrapped in Supra package?
Enthusiasts to Toyota: give us a successor to the MK3
Toyota: here’s a rebadged Lotus wrapped with Celica package?
Enthusiasts to Toyota: give us successor to the ae86
Toyota: Here's a perfect successor to the ae86
that can shift gears in 300 milliseconds and comes with a ridiculously potent and reliable turbocharged straight six that can handle 750+ wheel hp on stock block with just bolt-ons and upgraded turbo/fuel pump* FIFY
The 86 looks so much better, the Supra looks so overdone to me. Great comparison guys.
I agree even though I did like the supra styling in person..i just could not get over all the fake vents. I didn't buy it for that reason.
@@ehiracheta The Supra and the Civic Type R are absolutlely the worst offenders in the car world with all the fake vents. Fake vents don't age well. give it 20 more years and we will all agree that the 86 classic body lines are timeless while the Supras fake vents and "f1 iNsPiReD dEsIgN" is going to look like shit.
Supra turns more heads in person tho
in person, the supra is sexy. The camera doesn't do it justice. The 86 is more traditional. It's like comparing a beautiful face,36/24/36 Body crazy, curvy, wavy, big titties, lil' waist grown woman with confidence to a straight up & down shaped , cup A, insecure but very cute in the face 19yo.
I forgot about the new Supra 6 months ago.
Is a Z4
So creative
I completely forgot they have 2.0s til this video lol how much power does it have?
Getting old huh? I hope you still remember your grand children, so sad when you can't recall your own family.
@@Carlos.Rivera no its not.
Really wish Yota would've just thrown this power plant in the 86 and just offered the Supra with the 6! But everything is all about $ and guess some numbers guy told them it wouldn't be lucrative! Oh well. Great review as always! ✌🏽❤️✊🏽
Great video and review. As a former 86 owner I agree with everything mentioned. And one point to add is 86 is a 2+2 while the Supra is a strict 2 seater. Which means I was able to pick up my 2 kids from school in my red 86 😀
Clearly with the new GR86 in your fleet this needs to be revisited! Keep up the great work guys
The worst phrases in the automotive industry includes "F1 Inspired".
Agreed, that gonzo nose has never worked. Not on the supra, the enzo, the SLR or even zonda. They all look... off
FT*1 inspired.
I'm pretty sure the price and reliability are F1 inspired
F1 Inspired, Race car for the road, track focused, etc....
S2000 was F1-inspired.
I bought the Hakone back in July on your recommendation. My wife and I love it!! Thank you for sharing! I love you guys!
The more I watch their videos, the more I feel like Todd is speaking from my heart, while Paul just wants something luxurious and "high-end feeling". If I was to buy a sports car it would be either a Miata or a BRZ/86. Approachable is a good word, which Todd used. A measure of a good car is its agility, willingness, communication and approachability, not the "hey, look at me, I represent more than your average people mover". Also, as far as this comparison, I'll say this much. The 86 - naturally aspirated and manual transmission; the Supra - turbocharged and automatic. That alone should be the deal breaker, especially in light of everything else being very similar.
Couldn't agree more on the Todd vs Paul mentality. I'm surprised Paul drives a Cayman and not a Panamera or an E-Class.
@@kamilb8232 Nah, he still wants a sports car, and while they're both capable, the Cayman is the better race track car. He still likes to get info from the car, wheels, steering. If anything I'd expect a 911 or an M2/M4/M4 to be his next car.
Finally, thank you for making this video Tod and Paul! 🙏
Anytime I watch a Supra review it makes me want to buy a new Z4
Having owned my FRS since 2012, I'm going to agree with Todd. Better tires (Michelin PSS) makes real magic on twisty roads and upgrading the break pads (TRD) doesn't hurt either. The design purpose of this car wasn't about straight line driving, it was drifting on the wrong tires. The most fun I've had in this car was US 129 (Tail of the Dragon) down in TN. Definitely a permanent entry on my bucket list.
Please, please, please do not continue with having music while you talk. I know a lot of channels and TV-channels do this but it severely limits the availability of the content for those of us who have hearing issues. Other than that, thank you for a great video!
Gonna have to agree with Todd here. Paul has it completely wrong when he says he would get tired of the 86 after a while. Have had my BRZ since 2014 120k miles and a few track days. Still puts a smile on my face reving out the engine and ripping through the canyons. For comparison I also have a twin turbo Z and its heaps faster. But something about the BRZ just FEELS so good and its NEVER a bore to drive.
How exactly have you modded your BRZ, my '13 FR-S is still stock, going to start with Enkei 18" and ForcePro coil-overs. Paid off the car last week :)
@@calmiller3024 its 99% stock. K&n intake kit (mostly for the noise). Shifter and good tires. Still on stock suspension. Plan on finally getting an exhaust this Christmas (again for noise) and maybe headers to get rid of the torque dip. But, even stock its so much fun to drive. Drive it almost everyday and its never a bore.
@@calmiller3024 that's great man. There are so many wheel options I cant decide. Maybe 1 day ill get wheels and coils.
A more powerful 86 is what the Supra should have been all along.
That's exactly why I say the 86 would be more accurately named Celica--then the fast version would be Celica Supra, just like the good ol' days.
@@joelness the Toyota Celica have been a FWD/AWD car since 40 years ago, it wouldn't make much sense to change that now. The gt86 is a lightweight, sporty, fun car; just as the original ae86 is.
If Toyota decides to bring up the Celica name, it should be a turbo AWD car (i may be a little bit fan of rally celicas 🤣🤣)
@@CarlosGarcia-ze6rt the AE86 was a Corolla. If it makes sense to have the 86 as an homage to that car, it makes sense for it to be one to the RWD Celicas too - the Corolla went FWD before the Celica even did.
The Celica was never an economy car like the AE86 was. Thus it makes more sense to consider the 86 as a successor to the Celica.
The "86" name would make much more sense on a high-performance Corolla variant, maybe competing with the Civic Si.
The Supra compared to the current 86 is in a great spot. If the new 86 keeps what made it good but gets more horsepower then it becomes a very different story. The Supra will need some upgrades if it wants to compete with a souped up 86.
@@JohnFromAccounting I agree. For this reason, I still highly expect the new 86 too stay NA
Beautiful shots in this one. Nice video.
The driving position and interior ergonomics of the 86/BRZ was the number one thing that made me like driving it more than my ND. It has so much more room, and you take that for granted until you’re in the current Miata, which is still a better car in several other ways. I have no interest in the current Supra, but I am excited for the next gen of the 86.
I feel the same way compared to driving an NA. the 86 is just more comfy and more engaging in a way.
SAME for my BRZ - can't wait to see the next gen!
lo ko Steering feel yes, suspension not sure how you mean. The Miata has a true double wishbone front suspension. The 86 has struts. The geometry overall is superior on the Miata. The 86 has more roll stiffness but as far as suspension capability the Miata wins even if the Bilstein shocks are overdamped for the soft springs. The damping on the 86 is nothing special.
lo ko It’s not as fast anymore after the 2019 Miata got tuned up to 181hp from 155. The Miata is seriously quick now. The body roll is intentional, but it’s easily corrected.
lo ko You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means... better chassis is subjective in your case, you prefer how the 86 handles. I also would pick the 86 because I’ve already had the ND, even over the 181hp version. The Miata steering doesn’t have nearly as much feel, it’s too small, too cramped, and is a roadster more than a traditional sports car. But it’s still a bespoke chassis whereas the 86 is a modified Impreza. I just know how Mazda engineered the car (first hand conversations with Dave Coleman with my former employer), and objectively it’s superior. For example, the ND is now regularly beating S2000 times in autocross. Take away the roll and put on sticky tires it’s a beast.
I’ll take the lighter one every time. Regardless of power, lighter is more fun.
"Toyota won't make the 86 better"
About a month and a half later Subaru announces the new BRZ.
Balls in your court Toyota
It's a collab so I guess Toyota will have the same but different car.
Well, the only thing that matters is pricing at the end of the day.
yess and with the new motor, the extra 30 000$ is no more justify for only 27 more HP. I mean you can do some modification and reach 255hp with wayyy less than 30k in the BRZ...
@@simdaigle7060 if that's how you want to look at it.
Thank you for this really great comparison and in depth and sensitive analysis! Really great job!
What can still be improved is showing driver's perspective instead of the driver himself. Driver's perspective is always captivating to the viewer while nobody is interested in seeing a guy sitting in a car.
86 has a ton of value and makes sense. The new supra just gets out classed by everything else at its price point.
Please, as if the 86 doesn't get outclassed at its price point as well...fact is, both these cars are great driver's cars period.
@@rousseau327 By what?
@@rousseau327 there are no direct rivals to the 86/brz. Faster hot hatches yes, convertible mx5 yes but nothing FR, manual, coupe with 2 baby seats in the back.
@@TsLeng ecoboost Stang and 4/6 camaro 🤷🏽♂️ don't give me the pony or muscle car nomenclature either they're both legit sport cars at this point
@@daphenom45 they are not sports cars. And if you insist only if you live in the USA where prices might be similar(?). In the UK a mustang 2.3 is at least 10grand more.
My dream car was a Supra but thanks to this video I now own a 2022 white 86 with the only regret being the insurance package.
Add the performance package with the sachs dampers and the brembos (less than $1500) and the BRZ/86 is even better!
So right
I will always love my 86, its simple and just flows through windy back roads. You can feel the slight understeer disappear when you mash it without completely wrecking your car, and it hits 120mph on highways within a reasonable time/distance. All of it at 22mpg too!
Thank you for this review; I drive a '12 BRZ and I want the sound of a 6 cylinder supra. However, what Todd says resonates with me: the BRZ/GT86 engages you to extract its potential. I am a bit afraid that the Supra, once the power thrills wear down, won't be as good.
You guys made a great video, thank you
Toyota: "Friendship ended with SUBARU, now BMW is my best friend"
Isn’t subi still good
Nah more like i need some side action...Toyota going back with Subaru for a 2nd round of the brz 86 platform.
BMWs were always that german wanna be JDM car it’s like the the nerd tryin to finally fit in with the cool kids
@@bobhimself2590 Doubt.
I get major OG Top Gear from these guys and i love it.
Thank you, we take that as a huge compliment!
I’d get the 86 and spend the 16k to make it another 400 pounds lighter + new final drive + eliminate torque dip. So much better than the Supra
Exactly, with 16k you could do so much to the frs and make it far better than the Supra
New wheels and tires too ofc.
CHARLEY yeah, first things for unsprung weight reduction along with the AP Racing brake kit
If I had almost 50k to spend, I'd just go straight to cayman all day long, or a 997.
Nate Crabtree I get that, but the 86 is super practical, it can be your daily and only car no problem. Way cheaper to maintain also and to work on. And then there’s the beauty of modding your car the way you want it
Also there’s a vid by Chris Harris comparing a Cayman a BRZ and a 370z, worth a watch
Great review fellows, thoroughly enjoyed it.
I love the color scheme on that Hakone 86.
Difference between the Subaru and BMW engineers and designers. Toyota did very little for these engines, interiors and body panels. I do appreciate that I have a Toyota dealer much closer for any warranty issue, compared to the Subaru and BMW dealers farther away and maybe more expensive for any repair out of warranty. For the Subies change the engine coolant early and add AT-205 reseal to the engine oil and coolant, to prevent early head gasket problems.
I love the camera angles
I love this channel. Normal reviews of normal cars for normal people. Thanks
Watching that shift knob vibrate around in the 86 reminded me of what I hated about mine. It just felt slapped together and that FA20D was coarse as hell.
All shifters that are mounted directly to the transmission will do this. If you're used to vague cable driven shifters, yeah, it'll feel odd, but a direct link is always preferred in a real sports car.
Any direct link shifters will do this, F22C is smooth as butter and even its shifter vibrates, any shifter that doesn't is either cable linked or highly dampened.
@@chilicoke Touche. The E46 M3 was cable linkage, I think.
This one rattled like crazy too, my 2013 BRZ did it too. You'd think they'd have figured out the rattle by now, the vibration is to be expected.
I like the vibration. It’s part of the connection to the car.
12:15 right on the money. "86 is a perfect daily sports car" Totally agree with Todd on this one. It's hard finding anything like it.
Toyota shouldn't go out on the town with other car companies more. Toyota needs to stay home and drunk alone and make a sports car all by themselves. If tiny Nissan can make a new 400Z alone, Toyota can too.
The 400z is still on the 370z chassis, and it uses an engine from an existing line. That's why they can do it. Toyota simply doesn't have the correct parts bin to economically design a sports car, hence the colabs.
@@zublits it does have the correct parts bin though. It's got a few EXCELLENT chassis to choose from including the 86 Chassis, which is basically the exact same size as the Z4 chassis, and their lexus chassis. When it comes to the engine I doubt it would be that hard to take the 2JZ and modernize it with modern tech to make it a 3JZ.
Toyota does have the parts bin, but they're lazy.
@@zublits This is sad but true. So they label it "retro" aka we used old parts. :(
WhatIWant i don’t think you understand the engineering that goes into revamping an old engine that’s inefficient at multiple levels. It’s not as simple as “modernizing it”, having said that, Toyota does have the budget to develop such an engine but they don’t like compromising profits. They are a company driven by profits and if profits don’t hit the check marks they won’t consider the “investment of development”
@@whatiwant8898 that's not how that works. The 2jz is already 20+ years old. Even if they used the same design it will still need a ton of R&D money to modernize it.
Also the 86 chassis is made for the 86. The designer himself didnt want to put a turbo on the car because it will disrupt the balance. What makes you think they'll put a inline 6 in there and call it a supra.
The 2nd gen 86 is already confirmed to use a new chassis.
Btw stop using Nissan as an example that company is going down.
Owned an FRS. Own a Cayman now. Dare I say the 86 was more fun? There’s something about redlining every gear to the speed limit even if there’s a soccer mom casually passing you while sipping an iced latte. That being said, I think the 86 chassis is the best there is this side of $60k. Another thing to take into consideration is the 86 valve spring recall. It was bad enough watching the Toyota technicians scratch there heads at a Subaru boxer engine. Can you imagine bringing a BMW into a Toyota dealership for service? I’m going with the 86 here.
I’d go for the 86 if I had to choose. Plus when the second gen comes out with supposedly according to the rumors 2.5l n/a with a manual. All it needs is a tune to make it a screamer sporty car👌🏽
Not to mention the backseats make it more practical in a pinch!
Otter Get Up and Ride exactly. The longer wheelbase makes it more comfy on grand tours
I believe good sticky tires are the best modification for handling due to oem suspension are so good now.. on any performance car 200hp can be a blast of its done right.. this is coming from someone who drives a 700hp Mustang GT with 305 square.. a great tire is my best handling purchase.. great content
Factor in the maintenance cost and you don't get a stick. I'd get the 86 personally
Get the 86 and add a turbo. Done.
@@EndoftheAge717 waaaay less reliable and way slower than a chipped supra though...
Straight six engines from BMW are good actually, V8, V10 and V12's are the real unreliable bitches
Todd Likes the purist, raw fun and Paul likes the "German" refinement. What else is new? Bottom line is whichever of this car I could own I'd feel lucky. Yeah the Supra is cheaper Z4 that look special. I'm sure I could do long distance in the Supra without getting exhaisted by the droning exhaust note in the 86 but both cars are just special. And then there's the toyota reliability in the equation.
For the money difference, would it just be a good option to install a small supercharger with some good tires on the 86?
It isnt just about power though. The suspension build and reliability are all on different levels.
Savagese did this, and his results weren't great. He could never get the heat out of the engine bay and ultimately sold it because he wasn't happy with the result. Although he's never happy with anything....
@@jwb4bb He was also an early adapter and there were not many kits on the market then. Now there are far superior kits such as Edelbrock, Harrop, and Jackson Racing. There are plenty of venting options now, too. So OP or whoever can still have a pretty reliable car with more oomph.
@@jwb4bb unfortunately in his case as an early adopter some of the products he installed went through improvements afterwards as time went on.
Jackson racing and edelbrock superchargers are pretty bullet proof when combined with a quality tune. That said the engine was never built to be boosted.
Ryan It’s boosted in the WRX..
Very much suits you guy's channel this comparison 😉 thanks for the review.
-one has a boxer engine
-one has a BMW engine
Toyota makes good engines but both cars have none of them.
Toyota’s engines are all ancient in the 2020 lineup. Lexus, too.
@@TrevForPresident They still make decent HP/Torque numbers while being reliable and easy to work on . Toyota has the M15 engine that could easily be on the FRS for a lower cost
gvi341984 I had to look that up. Did you just reference a Yaris 3 cylinder engine with 118 ponies? Could that even be packaged for RWD? Just seems like people are stuck in the 90s when they think of Toyota and performance capabilities.
@@TrevForPresident All these engines could be mated to a RWD transmission if Toyota put some effort. Reliability? Flat engines are a pain to work on and the Supra uses plastic BMW vanos system.
I4 Toyota engines are easy to work on without any problem
@@gvi341984 The flat engine's benefit is low center of gravity. Vanos should be fine unless you flash a 13 PSI engine to push closer to 20.
My point is that Toyota doesn't make any modern low-end torque, high revving, high output engines now beyond the huge 5.0 in the RC F and even that's a, wonderful, relic from 2004. Toyota doesn't have a modern 2zz equivalent or anything that punches in performance car class. Could they put in a lot of work and make one and mate it to RWD? Sure. Will they? Recent history indicates no since we're not even going to get the GR Yaris which is a damn shame.
I've had my FR-S for three years gone through 40k miles and this car is perfect!use it both as my daily and track car! 100% worth it!
I like to daily drive every car I had.
and the 86 will be my choice.
1. even tho Toyota colaborated w Subie, the 86 its still a Toyota.
2. the 86 will have a guarantee of a Japanese reliability.
3. new Supra is a BMW
edit: I still won't buy an 86, Miata is still a better choice n more fun 2 drive.
The flat 4 in the 86 is all Subaru, and they have not been the paragon of reliability. And BMW certainly hasn't either. I wouldn't bet on either being a long term reliable car.
@@Azmodan911 my cousin bought a GT86 in 2013.
he always used it as a daily car and sometimes he bring it to the difting track.
from wht he said, he never had a single trouble with the 2.0L NA Boxer.
and also EJ25 will be reliable af if u keep it stock or just tuning it well.
my bro have a 400HP 2016 STI and never have a single trouble w the car.
@@Azmodan911 the thing with BMW engines is that they're not bad, the engines themselves are good, it's everything around them that breaks like the electrics or water pump for instance.
@@doabarrellroll69 agree
most of the times are the electronics
Great comparison. Both contenders for my next car
Love that 86 color!
I've owned an 86 (FR-S actually) for 6 years and it's an amazing car. Kept it for that long as I had not find a worthy replacement/upgrade....that is until the Supra 2.0 made an appearance. Already gave a deposit and can't hardly wait for it to arrive on Canadian soil
I just bought a Lotus Elise. It's a British car but at least it has a real Toyota engine and six speed manual! 🤣😂😆
To bad its not nearly as cool at the McLaren f1.... its a British car but at least it has a real fast engine... oh ya, by bmw.
@Hillary's Future Ghost ya same with the lotus... get it?
@Hillary's Future Ghost A new lotus elise base model is like 90 grand and it just goes up from there.... Google is a thing.. also not my point
The reason I am more fond of the BRZ/86 is that Toyota and Subaru worked together to make a car that none of them already had. While on the other hand it felt like Toyota just jumped on with BMW for a car that they already had their lineup. I’m not saying the new supra is a bad car, it’s just I don’t feel the same way about it.
Manual 86 is always the answer!
Thats what i have and drift everyday
Want more power? Turbo it and you'll be faster than supra, lighter and manual
Waaaaay less reliable and way slower than a chipped supra tho... plus manual coming in a year or two..
Supra 2.0 is a nice drivers car but 3.0 is a rocket
People can say what they want but yeah, the 3.0 is absurdly fast. 0-60 as low as 3.7 seconds, you're getting hellcat speeds but for 10k less and without all the tire melting
Can't go wrong with either one IMO. Just a matter of preference and budget. You can appreciate one without trashing the other.
'0-samurai-pride' in Toyota .. they can't afford to build .. 'sporty-car' ? -) .. they"re top3 producer in the car world .. ffs .. -) ...
Why should Toyota spend expensive RnD time to develop expensive engines for niche cars that will not sell that much when they can purchase suitable and proven motors from other manufacturers in order to keep production cost and overall cost of these cars lower?
Leonidae, it’s about brand bragging rights. Look at Mitsubishi. It’s dead because it has no interesting car. Most people don’t want to a buy car from a boring brand. The Korean is pushing hard on sport cars right now, because it tries to take advantage while Japanese car manufacturers are taking aback.
@@RomanticPopPunk So is Pontiac, Plymouth etc but you can hardly claim that they didn't have interesting cars in their lineup.
@@RomanticPopPunk if they wanted bragging rights it wouldn't be a "cheap affordable sports car", just look at Nissan and the GTR.
besides they already did it with the LFA and they lost money for every sale made. Now the LFA is only increasing in value because of how good it is.
Just face the facts sports cars don't sell because enthusiasts who wants sports car are only a small fraction of the market and we want different things not to mention the fact that most of us buy used which again limits the sale of brand new models which means less profit.
Also mitsubishi isn't dead because it killed the EVO, it's dead because it never gainer profit. Mitsubishi dominated in dakar with their Pajero Then the EVO dominated WRC for 4 straight years starting in 96 then did it again in european hill climb in the span of 10 years. Then 9x in FIA international hill climb.
But the EVO still died. Why? Because Not enough enthusiasts bought it.
@@zhixci958 of course, cause many enthusiasts can't afford it. and when they get older they prefer to get something else. haha.
I chose the 86, twice. I've owned a '13 FRS, and now a Hakone. Stage 2 tune with a header, Bilstein coilovers, and Michelin P4S 245/35-17s on lightweight 8" wheels are all I needed to get the 86 where I wanted it, and there's a of of change left over, plus the weight and MT. The more I drive it, the more I like it. :)
Takumi Fujiwara vs Brian O Conner definitely his brother from another mother
I'd definitely own a 2 liter Supra. A tune bolt-ons and slightly bigger turbo would make it as good as the stock 6 cylinder.
Nissan: we build our own cars
Toyota:we have an f1 inspire car
Nissan:we have a manual and a handbrake
Do they ? Cuz the gtr been automatic... its also 120k... and 370z car cant compete with a 3 mod supra... talk to me when they come out with the turbo one... plus Nissan sucks... skylines blew from oil starvation and gtr transmissions fail all day... Nissan making their own cars isn't a good thing hahahah less reliable than bmw hahahah thats saying something haha
@@aaronsanchezz Nearly every car in the class of the GT-R is automatic only so your point is rather um pointless, as for the 370z you can buy 2 new ones for the price dealerships are charging for even the base Supra, they come with a manual and they have had 11 years on the market to prove their reliability while the BMW B58 is relatively new and unproven in the long-term.
BMW still ranks below Nissan/Infiniti in nearly every consumer reporting website and if you think the Skyline had oil issues oh my sweet summer child go do some reading on BMW's V8 motors.
As for modifications yeah the Supra is a better tuning platform, but you could strap a pair of turbos to a 370z for the same amount of money it would take to get a 2L Supra, which the 370z is faster stock to begin with.
And with all of that said the 400z is right around the corner, has a manual and the twin-turbo V6 from the Q50/60 which is pound for pound every bit as good as the B58 from BMW
and its a genuine Nissan product.
@@BigHeadClan woosh lol Google is a thing kid, learn about cars and come back to me. Consumer reports lol go buy a kia
@@aaronsanchezz No every outlet that tracks long-term reliability, at worst BMW and Nissan are comparable in terms of over-all reliability which is damn shameful on the part of BMW because Nissan has been plagued by CVT troubles for nearly 10 years which have only just gotten fixed.
Also nice dodge I'm sure no one noticed you avoided talking about any of the other half dozen points I raised.
@@BigHeadClan if you understood how the world and car industry worked you would realize why lol im not here to teach you about cars kid. good luck in life.
I had a BRZ and was looking for a faster car. Looked at a Supra and my wife said it best: “looks amazing from more than 30 feet away”.
All the creases and vents sort of ruin what is otherwise a very well-proportioned car. And the drive was great, but you can’t put the damn windows down. If i had to choose between the Supra and a BRZ, I’d go BRZ. As it was, I went with a Gen V Viper.
As a grad student, I thought Miata or Accord Coupe V6 was my afforadable entry into enthusiast driving. But now the 86/BRZ is more on my radar than before.
So now my question is, 86 or Miata? Also, can the Miata still be drivable in mild winter climates?
Depends on the Miata and the tires, but yes it is. I had a 2018 Miata but I would buy the 86 now.
We did that review a couple years ago. Go check it out!
I own both. I recommend to test drive both for pros and cons. Miata is without a doubt the more fun car. It's almost 500lb lighter than the 86 with same torque output and comes lower in the RPM range. It actually feels much faster and eager to accelerate. The chassis is significantly more playful to toss the car around. I'd argue the shifter is better, but more importantly, the clutch is unquestionably significantly better than the atrocious and non-linear 86 clutch. Interior, while by no means luxurious, feels far more modern than the dated 86 which looks like its from the 90s. And let's not forget taking the top down for a spirited drive or track day is nothing short of absolutely awesome, but it's s also more expensive than the 86.
But as Todd pointed out, the 86 is more livable daily and I use it as my daily (including MI winters). You can legitimately carry a lot of things in it when seats are folded (4 wheels easy). By no means its a quiet car, but far quieter than the Miata at freeway speeds. Seating position is far better as you sit lower, with better seats, and better steering position. If you're over 6 feet tall you will still fit unlike thr Miata. Suspension overall is much better too. Car feels flatter but it's also better dampened. I have the 2016 ND1 with Bilsteins and those are way over-dampened and can be pretty harsh on bumpy roads. That being said, I've heard Mazda set them up differently for later model years to be more compliant. I hate this engine though. In combination with the unpleasant clutch, it's a legtimate deal breaker that I realized too late. Cannot emphasize how bad the torque dip is and how little torque it has for the weight of the car. I'm gonna only hold onto it until the next 86 or WRX is out. Or if I get impatient, get a used M235i or current WRX which was surprisingly super fun with an old school feeling laggy turbo (would need some suspension and sway bar mods to help it rotate better though).
Never took my Miata out during winter, but I'd imagine it would be similar in handling the snow. I put blizzaks on the 86 but you still need to be careful. These cars like to oversteer and even with their low power they can be little twitchy in winter and will need to be driven more cautiously than FWD or AWD vehicle. I wouldn't even try without winter tires either.
I'm also a grad student, and just bought a used BRZ. My buddy has a ND1 miata club. Personally I like my BRZ better coz I prefer the flat, solid feel of the 86/BRZ. No doubt the ND Miata has a more potent chassis, smoother engine and better shifter/clutch, but it's just too impractical to be my only car. I also don't want to drive a convertible in the Michigan winter. The 86 is way more practical on the other hand. Plus I think the BRZ has the best steering feel in all the EPS unit I experienced. I just cannot stop smiling every time I jump in my BRZ.
@@kamilb8232 Thanks for the insights. Thankfully I currently own an 08 Accord so I could get away with owning a Miata for the driver friendly months in the DMV area. I would definitely test drive both first. I'll would love to feel how the 86 handles. What I'm looking for is that fun to drive factor. I want to know what satisfying turn-in and handling feels like, even around town. Speed is nice, but not everything cause eventually you'll get to 80, right? The only time I ever really need my car to be practical is when I'm moving stuff, but the Accord does an okay job with that. I guess if I had to own only one, 86. But if I can get away with owning two cars in my mid 20's, I might still answer that call to at least try owning a Miata once in my life. Thanks again for all the info.
Wish you tube had the love it icon. Lol awesome video.
I thought a drag race would be interesting until I saw the 0-60 times at the end. A 1.5 second difference? Oof
Great review! Having these two opposite opinions/conclusions made "something for everybody" here too.
I only wish there was less of the dramatic music, especially when you are talking. It gets in the way imo.
“Looks like a bmw knob ... but that is ok” NO ! IT IS NOT OK!
I mean its better than the Lexus trackpad.
Yes it's not ok, they should have used the much superior Corolla one.
doabarrellroll 69 its not about superior or inferior! Its about jdm/euro/US...
Toyota should be a Toyota and should be made in Japan! If i wanted to drive a bmw i would buy a bmw... btw! I would take a lexus over a Beemer any day! In and out! But i am biased to Japanese cars
Ya it looks good... if bmw does one thing well its make good interiors on the top models
@@aaronsanchezz its not about the looks... thats not the point... it looks beautiful! Like a european car and not like it should! A Japanese car
Running costs of the 86 are much lesser cost of ownership than the supra I think. Plus on initial cost if you were to put the 16k into the sea of high quality aftermarket parts for the 86 to dial it in you’d have a better car then and still with lesser running costs. Add on top of that the engagement of a manual which is legit part of the value prop for many sports car drivers. The supra is gorgeous and a wonderful status car with some nice road chops but I’d be more excited to build the 86 than to just own the supra. But both are great for the right buyer.
yeah just the tires on the supra probably cost 2x as much and wear harder
"step-bro what are you doing?"
I have an 86, the Supra has definitely got something I just need to drive it and find it.
Great vid guys thanks.
The 86 CANNOT be considered a front mid engine car. The engine sits a little ahead of the front struts. It has to sit behind it to be considered a FR. come on mang!