Ham Radio EMP Kit, The Tactical Trash Can
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Many believe the worst threat to our electronics is being damaged by an Electromagnetic Pulse. Today I show you how to prevent that damage and what I place in my EMP trash can to be ready for what may come. The trick is useing a metal trashcan AND special gasket to seal up the seams.
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This videos seems to be getting a lot of views again. YES, we tested the can ua-cam.com/video/o4CnecfAzng/v-deo.html we used a portable spectrum analyzer for attenuation readings. A cellphone and obviously radios. The results also showed that attenuation was not affected by having a ground line or NOT. Please go watch the live stream.
Are the electronics at risk if they are turned off?
Yes if plugged in
I get my new Bao Fengs delivered, go straight to UA-cam and the first video I watch the guy tells me to put them in the trash can...
Lol!
When storing anything that uses batteries isn’t it better keep the batteries out all electric devices stored for long periods of time?
@@rodneyramjet8470 yes, in most cases that is good to do
@@rodneyramjet8470 Absolutely. There is zero reason to keep batteries in the devices.
😂
Josh, don't forget moisture. You aren't going to have a weep hole. Toss a few silica packets in the middle compartment.
Nope you cant do that a pin hole, or screw etc is enough to add +10dbm of signal in. -tested it.
Silica packs are a great idea. Depending on where you live condensation could be a big deal. I had the same idea as Josh, but could not seal it tight enough nor eliminate enough moisture to prevent condensation. I tried rice, but I didn't try silica.
Dry rice in a nylon stocking
@@michaelbaldwin6543 try the stones from a humidor
Josh says he's in SoCal. That means desert environment - not thinking about the consequences of moisture, because not a normal environmental factor for him. I would use it just about anywhere, though.
A .50 caliber or 20mm ammo can would work just as well. For a further method of sealing gaps between the body and lid of the can is to use the aluminum foil tape commonly used in HVAC duct work. Peel and stick over the seams.
I have been thinking the same thing. The only issue there is that the adhesive on the tape may act as a dielectric, preventing good connection. My boxes have a rubber sealing gasket. How about the idea of replacing that gasket with a woven copper gasket?
@@Sagart999 perhaps try out copper guitar shielding tape. It utilizes a dielectric adhesive, allowing for conductivity.
I use 40MM ammo cans, 10 gallons of space and they come with a cardboard liner (to prevent sparks originally).
Josh, consider this point: The powergrid relies on substations, each built pretty much entirely with custom built transformers. That take about a year or two to order. So in a large EMP event, the substations will slag down and remain down until two years AFTER the transformer factories can be rebuilt. If you have a radio and license, you will be drafted on the spot for government communications. A friend of mine is on a draft board, and said very bluntly they keep hardcopy lists of all kinds of resources. Like radio operators.
Just call me Generalissimo of communications. 🤣 seriously though we spoke about this on grid-down live stream. Even a small disruption in power could have rolling waves of effect and take down significant portions of the grid.
I hear that most if not all of these sustation transformers are now made in China!
With the "STUFF" that's happening all over the World right now, an EMP Box makes a LOT of sense! I did a "Poor Man's" version for now until I can get a proper box made. I have put three radios away for this: My Wife's FT-4, my VX-6, and my VX-8. I have Two FT-65's. I'm planning to buy a THIRD FT-65 in the next several weeks, and then put the other TWO in Faraday Boxes as well. For my Poor Man's shield I put the radios and batteries in Separate Plastic Bags, and then Wrapped those in Aluminum Foil. Later I intend to put this in Cardboard Boxes, and THEN Everything into the Trash Can for extra protection.
Check out this new device called a EMP shield which allows you to use them while they are protected 😉
About being prepared for a second EMP, if memory serves me after, lo, these many years, I believe that the military line of thinking was to expect the enemy to execute a second EMP attack in order to take out all of the transmitters that were not destroyed in the first attack. I believe that the idea was that there was a need to protect critical equipment for several days, even weeks or months, as a result.
Perhaps having an "expendable" Baofeng would be the radio to use for a somewhat lengthy period in order to protect the more expensive/useful equipment?
or making "giant" cube out of aluminium or copper mesh and put all your equipment it. would be hard to isolate antenna from radio and still keep it operational though...
@@ApocGuyactually emps wouldn’t harm most antennas
@@mycatsaliberal3848 it wouldnt unless it ha active or passive baluns . the problem is that antenna WILL pick off magnetic energy from pulse, conveying it through wires straight down to HAM radio...
@@ApocGuy honestly I shouldn’t of even said that. I don’t know enough about these kinds of antennas to even make that comment. I guess I was just thinking about other types of antennas.
I have had a EMP can for years as part of my Southern California Earthquake/Disaster kit.
- Placed a strip of conductive copper tape around the cans upper lip to help with the electrical connection between the bottom and top.
- Also placed copper tape along the inside where the handles are connected to the lid and sides. Mine had small holes at those attachment points.
- I have placed all my gear in Engpow Faraday Bags or wrapped them with foil.
- Lined mine with a rubber floor mat cut to fit bottom and sides.
- Before loading the can I lined it with two heavy duty trash bags and sealed them closed for water protection. (I live at the beach)
- Kenwood TH-G71 with USB charger and AA battery pack.
- Two Baofeng BF-888S programmed with GRMS and FRS frequencies, with USB charger. (Yes, I know...)
- Crank powered AM/FM/NOAA radio with light that can also work as a USB charger if you want to sweat out some amps.
- I placed rechargeable batteries/gear at the top of the can for easy access/maintenance. Also taped a contents list to the outside.
- Can also has solar panel, USB power packs, rechargeable AA batteries and other gadgets.
Tested can by placing my cell phone inside then called it. Failed the first time, then I added the copper tape covering the handle attachment points and it worked.
"- I have placed all my gear in Engpow Faraday Bags or wrapped them with foil.
" Respectfully, Bruce, I think you could have led with, and stopped at, that. That's all you need to do. I believe the rest is superfluous to the task.
@@davidkennerly I had the bags first, but they didn't store all my items and they were not 100% effective. So I stuck them all inside the can.
Like you I wanted to have a “ miners canary” so I did put a small AM/FM weather radio solar power hand crank. But now that I’m thinking about it, I think I’m going to get a really small can just for the “canary”. Because I don’t even want to take the lid off of my big can, shortly after an EMP that may have been donated by an enemy, because certainly they will follow it up with at least the second one and possibly even a third. That’s why I have decided to move my “canary” to a separate small can so that I don’t have to open my big Can with all my electronics in it to get to the canary. Tweet!
You could also consider buying a small, cheap faraday bag for this purpose. I have a tablet bag for my Surface so I can carry it with me. I was thinking it might be helpful to have small faraday bags inside the trash can to increase the attenuation for some of the more sensitive components (such as the transceiver and its microprocessors).
I used a 35 gallon can, but its the same with the exception of scale. Think about using metallic tape to cover the seam down the side of the can, the seam at the bottom of the can, and the holes in the can and the lid where the handles are attached. Anyplace there is a puncture of the metal or where two edges, come together. I used the same RF gasket you have around the inside of the lid to keep from having to tape the lid on. I used a yoga mat that I cut to fit as an insulator aound the interior wall of the can and a anti fatigue mat that I cut into a circle for the bottom and top. I also put items in shield bags before putting them in the can.
I have to say, after I first started looking at HAM radio and went for my first Tech test, your channel has been an enormous help and inspiration. You might even go so far as to say you're my "virtual Elmer". Thanks for the awesome info. Keep it up!
Thanks for this good video. It gives me a lot of new ideas. I prefer aluminum tool boxes for keeping my emergency rig. Most of it is square shaped, so a round shaped container seems not optimal. After watching this video, I will probably add a seal as you have shown it. Hopefully none of us experiences an EMP caused by nuclear explosion.
The tactical trashcan? Is that what my drill sargeants used to bang on and throw to wake me up all thoss years ago?
I'm pretty sure they had trashcan throwing competitions because I remember a few times when full trash cans were thrown across the barracks bay, trash going everywhere while they're yelling at us and making use clean it up immediately. lmao good times
Oh those were the good ole' days...
Remember having to scour the inside of those trash cans till the shined like a mirror.
my dad did the same thing when I was in high school
Yes Sir, OMG, and dumping out the dead heads. Now it's pretty please get up.
And if you don't get out of bed fast enough, they throw it at you.
,"I think we're gonna need a bigger can."
Yes, I bought same and nothing much can put it.
So I bought a bigger one.
50 gal trash can
@@raymacdhomhnuill8018 I was thinking a 50 gal steel drum. Heavier metal...
thats what she said
In case a bigger shit hits the can.
That fastener on the manual screwdriver antenna is a "thumbscrew."
I scrolled down, and there it was. Gracias
That's a nice portable EMP set up. I have 13" and 14.1" laptops and all my old cell phones in a Faraday Defense NX3 bag, two Jackery Explorer 300 both in each their own metal ammo cases with the metal gasket upgrade to make them EMP proof. Just recently ordered four Fenix ARE-D1 battery chargers for my Eneloops, 21700 and 18650 batteries. They have 4 bay chargers but I live by the one is none rule so 4 single bay chargers with full featured display are better for my preps and can be spread into other kits if needed, plus its Fenix which I've owned a lot of their products with no failures for decades! I've got a bunch of AM/FM/Shortwave radios I like and two way radios but thinking still about what others I want to add.
One special one in my preps is the Sony ICF-F10 because it's a basic AM/FM with no sensitive complicated digital circuits to fail, sounds great and at low volume and I ran mine for 2 years on once set of D cells maybe 1000 hours. I used it every morning for a couple hours and some weekends working outside I could not believe it, some kind of efficiently fluke at low volume where it can just last. Since then I have D cell to 3AA adapters and use 6 Eneloops in it. It still goes for a year depending on how I use it. Its a 1990s style design. When they were available for $20 back in 2011 I bought 5 of them for me, friends and family it was a good one for the cost.
Great selection of gear and I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks there could be more than 1 EMP if that is the scenario (Jericho, could be months apart).
Be cool to watch more of the series, too bad they cut it off without any ending. Or maybe that’s Project Mockingbird, and we are the Season 3. Wish it was joking.
A lot of good thought went into this video. Good job and thanks for posting. I'm a former EMT and I put together SABFAK medical kits. One of my philosophies is that you need to use your equipment on a regular basis to familiarize yourself with it, make sure it works, and make sure nothing is missing. I've taken up welding, and my EMP case is a custom steel box with a copper mesh seal around the top and a clasp for a lock. For my purposes a 14"x10"x12" does fine. The steel does not have to be heavy. I just keep my equipment in there, and take it out when I use it. One of my ham friends has his shack in a Faraday cage (he designs military HF and VHF equipment for a specialty contractor) and all his antenna couplings go out of one port that he can disconnect and close easily with a good seal. When he's not on the air, the whole room and all his gear is sealed up tight.
The bucket is galvanized steel.
Looks good
I was hoping someone would say something. i had to immediately pause the vid when he said the can was made of aluminum. That would be useless as a faraday cage if it were aluminum, you need to use a steel container for it to be effective.
@@fwddodge22 Lol. Aluminum is a good conductor. They used to make wiring with it FCOL.
I will have to give this a try. I have a few radios that would need this protection. Most of my gear though is vacuum tubes, which has been proven to be impervious to EMP. Nice presentation!
Great video. Wrap each item in aluminum foil and put each in a ziplock bag. Separate out batteries and wrap them also. Disconnect antennas. Do not ground the can because the ground lead is an EMP antenna. Avoid ammo cans because of bad chemicals. Most important is pre-establishment of nets. Don't use callsigns because they give away your address. You may well have to defend your radio gear and everything else so use your gunsafe for guns. 73 de K6VK ##
NASA engineer here.
OK, so if you *really* want your system operational after a man-made EMP (or even a really bad solar EMP), you also need gamma ray shielding. The only way to obtain gamma ray shielding is to have at the very least 15 pounds of material *per square inch* of exposed container. For your 6 gallon bucket, that is about 2 or 3 feet of concrete (or dirt), or the same weight of water. The bottom of a swimming pool is one thought, but then the bucket has to be water pressure-proof long-term. An earthen berm can be used to store lots of sensitive equipment, plus, can act as a root cellar.
Humidity is going to be your enemy no matter what.
The reason for this is that a single gamma ray can pass through the junction of a transistor or FET and leave a permanent short circuit as it strips off the electrons on it's way through the chip. Once electrical power is applied, the chip lets all the smoke out. It can easily ruin an entire subsystem like a transceiver. This is a lot more probable than you might think. A good EMP will give close to a 100% probability of gate shorts. The thin EMP bucket/faraday-cage cannot protect against this at all.
In my case, I know where the nearest burst will be and the radiation levels across the spectrum for my location. I am preparing for the worst case X class solar burst, and the nearby (7 miles away) man-made burst. I will still keep my Faraday box just underground.
Batteries are a continuing problem - they leak and corrode everything, and have to be maintained fully charged but never overcharged.
Best of luck everyone! And, this was a great video! I learned a lot!
Thank! I appreciate your insight as well!
wont wiring be fried? so does it really matter to have a faraday system? thanks
@@4seasonsTrucker Only very long lengths of wire get damaged. The utility grid, for instance, has to deal with this (but they don't). Your car and house wiring will be fine. The electronics connected to it, not so much, but the wires themselves will easily survive any pulse that your own body can survive.
Ther is a guy(caravan guy, I don't remember anymore the name) on YT that have Testet a couple flexible solar panels and all are not working after a couple years.
He suggested to use better monocrystalline panels with propper holding.
The flexible panels go defective maybe because of not enough space for heat expansion and not good enough heat disappearing, that's probably why the aluminium and Glas cased panels holding longer.
Lots of very good thinking here. :) In my EMP can, I have additional layers of attenuation. I place my IC705, solar charge controller, Yaesu HT, etc in individual plastic bags. These bags are tightly wrapped in copper cloth, and each copper-cloth-wrapped bag is placed inside a larger plastic bag. Smaller holes in the large can are sealed with copper tape. Cardboard lines the larger can. My thinking is two layers of RF attenuation are better than one, and the copper cloth makes a second layer easy.
What do you do about batteries and your ability to recharge those batteries?
@@g-whiz286 I have a Bioenno 30 Ah LiFePO battery. It stays in the can as well. Two relatively inexpensive solar panels in parallel run the charge controller which charges the battery. I would like to protect the panels as well, but do not yet have a good solution because of their size. :(
@@Davidinalaska I picked up a 100 Watt foldable solar panel that is made up of ten smaller 10 Watt panels joined together in a fabric web. When collapsed, it is the size of a thick notebook and about 1/2 the size of my Jackery E300 it resides next to. The Jackery provides 300 WH of capacity and includes a 300 Watt AC inverter, a 10 Amp 13.2V (regulated) port, and a variety of USB A & C ports for small appliances. This, of course, does not fit into a 5 gallon pail. I use a 52 gallon galvanized trash can with a slightly smaller plastic trash can (handles cut off) as my insulating liner. All of the rivet holes have been soldered closed. The intention is solder the lid on (probably with solder wick) when it is full to hermetically seal it up.
I don't have any radio stuff (other than a phone and an am/fm radio in my car), but this kit is extremely helpful to me. I have been wearing what basically amounts to a chastity device that is a bucket welded around my front and back. I have not been assaulted before or since!!! Thank you!
You could just switch to using smoke signals for comms. Problem solved!
Great video Josh. My suggestion is to make room for some desiccant packets. Here in So Cal it’s not such a problem, but in wet climates it is a very important necessity. I’ve not read the comments, so sorry if this a re-post.
I have a very large old table top microwave oven for my cage....while not portable it has the sealed door you need for perfect seal. If you have a early-warning from the alert radio, you can use your existing kitchen microwave in same fashion....put your GMRs/FRs radios in there before the blast, just be sure to unplug it and leave a note on the door.....
EMPs come in waves. The first is the most intense and short lived. The ones the follow become less intense but last for a longer duration.
For EMI shielding, the smallest gaps should be no larger than 1/10th the signal wavelength.
Non nuc emp can have upto several hundred MHz freq. So gaps no larger than an half inch should be good.
You can buy copper conductive paint, spray or in a pail. Something that is not reusable, aluminum foil tape.
If the frequency is higher, maybe in the microwave wavelengths, you need specialized conductive gaskets. i.e. Parker cho-seal
true, but we're still talking about very short duration of event in any case. CME is another matter though. tnx for info on high spec gaskets, will look into it ;) .
That the 1st EMP wave is the most intense (or that it comes in waves) depends on the source. It might be true in an Atomic Bomb, but it can be more than one bomb, at variable distances, a particularly strong solar flare, a targeted EMP attack using a directional antenna...
Microwave oven with cord unplugged.
Would aluminum foil work? Where's my tinfoil hat!
@H Higgins
And hammer that lid on, and seal it with 100mph tape.
Thanks for the shoutout! You’re welcome to join us on the show anytime you’d like.
Awesome! I’ll get an email out to you all.
To help a metal trash can attenuate the EMP you must add some kind of seal. I prefer using a reusable seal mesh gasket on the lid that sits on the lip of the can. A future video is in the works that will demonstate the cans capability.
Isnt that galvanized steel? I thought it had to be Aluminum? At least it is for data storage like hard drives I think. I don't know much about radios.
@@ModernDecay70 to act like a faraday cage, it just have to be a good conductor, so that the pulse take the least resistance path through the shell and not into the radio, where any piece of circuit trail/wire will act like an antenna and send stray currents to all the unprotected components.
I have heard of a 'cage inside cage, inside cage' sort of arrangement where a diode connects the shells before heading to ground ... curious in all directions.
You need a large garbage can. Then you don't need to choose so little. lol
Make sure you add a bit of desiccant so it stays dry.
Behrens makes 10, 20, and 33-gallon cans too. I nest a 20 inside the 33, lined with cardboard. Small stuff like batteries, cables, antenna wire etc can go in between. The most sensitive stuff goes deep inside, also insulated with cardboard.
Repeaters going down: It seems that some (likely a very few) repeater operators might have done some extra engineering effort to harden them against EMP, to the greatest degree practical. It is not impossible at all, just a lot of careful considerations.
Josh- I think a better container would be either use a 20mm or a 30mm ammo can. My thought is, it is easier to put a square or rectangular piece of equip. in a rectangular box, plus it would be easier to use the seal on the lid. Just a thought.
I agree I love ammo boxes. The issue is the seal. You need a metallic seal instead of the rubber gasket.
Back in the days of film cameras there were these lead lined bags called Film Shield used to prevent damage to film from the X-ray machines at airports. They might still be available or something similar and be handy to keep a HT protected in the glove compartment of your car.
Mylar freezer bags? Metal "space" blankets...
This is a lot more portable than the typical trash can designs I've seen.
Just a thought : It is possible that your pop rivet (holding the antenna support to the lid) may act as a radiator internally, it seems to protrude enough internally and would effectively act as an antenna re-radiating the EMP pulse at a reduced range of frequencies but still at high power
I was thinking the same thing plus pop rivets are hollow when the pull through breaks. It was confusing the seal around the inside of the lid then using basically pop rivets to support the strap. Open path for moisture and RFI?
Pop rivets come with sealed tops for aerospace use. Also you can put the head INSIDE, just a thought.
Like the shirt, with the recent balloons flying around this is a very good video.... Thanks for creating this for us all.
How about keeping everything in an individual faraday bag so when you speculatively open the can to pull one thing out they all don’t get fried, because a sun driven event would be very likely to last for hours as we commonly see in all the various events involving solarflares.
Yeah. I like that.
I watched another utuber testing the trashcan for RFI leaks. Like you he didn't seal where the handle goes through the lid. I used aluminum tape (but I don't remember testing with tape recorder and ham radio inside). If the sticky is at fault, turn the aluminum tape over with sticky side outwards and gorilla tape it down.
Remember if you're at work or not at home a microwave over can store small electronics and is a pretty good faraday cage. Just don't forget to unplug it. You don't want someone turning it on accidentally.
Will not work! put ur phone in a microwave and call it does it ring? Yes! Then it will not work
One comment about the can. There is a video around here made by scientists who tested trash cans. If people use a trash can, the EMP will pass right through the gap between the lid and can. In this can, i couldnt vouch for the effectiveness of the inner seal. They stopped the EMP completely by running aluminum tape around the gap so that might be an option to end the doubt. In the rivet you made, I would seal that area with the tape, as well.
I tested the can in a similar fashion to that scientist on another of my videos. 65-75 db of attenuation depending on band.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse Fair enough. And Im not claiming to know better, just relaying what I saw and trying to learn. We all need kits of one form or another which I take seriously.
No worries. I didn’t take it negatively. 👍
I'm considering building my own. And using heavy duty aluminum foil. I would create a couple of layers, and then have my electronics in small Faraday bags. That would create three layers of EMP protection. Might be overkill but I figured better safe than sorry.
Those who have more real estate could purchase freight boxes (train car size) as a radio shed, modified for a safe house for living, faraday rated and very sturdy..can be sub grade located hillside for stable indoor environment, skylight tubes with inset solar panels for charging batteries, led lighting..etc.
Saw this when you 1st made it. Have the bucket and now with Cycle 25 coming on strong I am working to make it a Thing for here. The CME potential is a fairly reasonable possibility for trouble so; great idea, Josh. Thanks. Joe
I wrap both my Pelican and Gator Case Go Kits with Aluminum Foil when not in use. I also have eight 100Ah 12v Battleborne and Clone Lithium batteries, folding solar panels, misc electronics and a 2KW Propane Generator in my 2 large and 4 small metal cans with a trash bag as the middle layer. My food and survival preps are also fully stocked so I am actually alive more than a few days. Make sure you don't allow the lid seal to create any openings the EMP can penetrate.
Need to use a surface conversion coating such as alodine to mitigate the aluminum oxide.
RF gasket on the lid would improve it. Copper or gold lining would be nice.
I’ve been using a full sized metal trash can for years to do this. Lots more space inside.
Lol. Ok.
It’s my understanding that it is best to ground your Faraday cage. I’m not an expert here by any stretch, and I’ve read conflicting opinions on the necessity of grounding. It would be great if you could get some expert advice on this for your next video on this topic
Test your Faraday cage by putting a cell phone inside, closing it, and then trying to call the phone from another cell phone or land line phone. If the phone inside the Faraday cage rings, it isn't providing sufficient shielding for an EMP event.
We did on a live stream. No calls went through.
The song is just quiet enough in the background that all I hear is the klang... Klang... Klang... Throughout the video but not loud enough to hear that it's a song. Sounds like someone's outside your house banging trash can lids
Not a ham yet .. So I went with a President McKinley ssb cb radio , Wilson 1000 mag mount antenna, Dakota lithium power box 10 and solar panel.. 3 to 4 hour recharge time . a 400 watt inverter to plug my home propane cook range into .. It will provide heat and a way to cook/ boil water .Everything eles in the kit runs off aa rechargeable batteries/ USB changer .. lanterns , flashlights , frs radios and a skywave ssb . I bought a btech triband but at this time its worthless due to my lack of knowledge.. I just started watching your videos great video .. Thanks for all you do . Amazing info
Love your channel, and the way you present data (easy to understand) keep up the excellent work!
You can also put your thing in zip lock bags and then put aluminum foil around that for added protection. In 1865 I think it was there was, a solar discharge that burned up telegraph wires! Not to say we will have another, but it is posable. I am not sure about the year, but it was in the 1860's somewhere. There were not much for it to destroy, but it did a number on what there was. We have had some that just missed the earth in the past 10 years. One of the black outs in eastern part of Canada was a small one. Depending on the size they may only do small damage to a small area. But the one in the 1860's, the northern lights could be seen in Cuba, people in the northern US got up because they thought it was morning.
Carrington Event
I would line that can before the cardboard is inserted with a high dielectric strength tape. EMPs can get to 50kV/M and I don’t know if that packing tape has a high enough dielectric strength to withstand breakdown at those voltages. Also using multiple shields is not a bad idea (a metal enclosure within a metal enclosure), each enclosure will attenuate the signal if the next outer shield didn’t completely block it. He didn’t ground the shield in the video, but FYI don’t ground this faraday cage if you think it will be better, that is usually only needed if there are penetrations in the outer shield or if you’re using surge suppressors rated for EMP rise times to protect hard wired equipment. The ground wire will act as a antenna and increase the voltage on the grounded shield, something you don’t want to do.
Just a thought: Use small bucket exactly the way you propose, in addition, develop a secondary unit in a large galvanized trash can for you home base. If you have to bug out, pick items in secondary to supplement the primary; dire situations pack away both…🤔
The metal trash bin is overkill. There are easier ways to achieve a Faraday Cage to protect gear, e.g. lining a cardboard box with aluminium foil. That will do the trick, nicely. You can fit more into it, too.
Foil isn’t very thick and not very durable. You need to test a foil box for attenuation.
Shazam! For once I am ahead of you. Bought two small bucket size and two regular garbage can sized Behrens trash cans 5 years ago with aluminum tape to seal them. I will be very interested to see your discussion re: the seal.
@ Josh: Be sure to mention the fact that ammo cans are no good as is because the rubber gasket to waterproof/seal them leaves an opening, unless you sand off the paint from the outside edge of the can and the lid and wrap aluminum tape, or remove the gasket and apply a wire filler mesh.
replace the rubber gasket with conductive gasket?
1/2" copper woven braid grounding strap pop riveted to BARE metal between the ammo lid & ammo can's body. Again remove the paint & pop rivet to bare metal only. Route the braid on the hinge side sp you can still open the lid fully.
Since I'm here do the braid mod to the TTC too for the very same reason. Don't try t rely on just the sudo metal gasket inside the lid as was shown. And since I like copper grounding straps, run a strip between the TTC/ammo can and to a copper water pipe or your shack's earth ground for a REAL solid earth ground.
73 de Dave N6DSW
Doing the work to fix a ammo can makes the most sense to me! Radios fit better in them plus they are already tactical. That shinny bucket will get you killed! Not to mention I have plenty.
@@WW5RM Agreed. I'm bugging in.
I'll be putting my "prepped" 50 cal ammo cans in a large trash can.
MINES bigger than yours!!!
I used a 10 gallon or so galvanized trash can. It's 16" tall and 16" wide on top. Tight fitting lid too.
I lined mine with corrugated cardboard, bottom, sides and inside of lid. Duct tape on any seams.
It's sweet!!! Painted it red, of course.
Got my 2-way radios, CBs, multi-meter, port TV-DVD Player. LED flashlights, a taser, batt charger, camera, some other things I will want.
My solar power stuff that I'm not using is in its own cage.
O did as an extra precautionary move. But LATELY, things the way they are. Glad I did.
I use a few military ammo cases. They seem to be well shielded and also seal out the weather really well. They use a rubber gasket (non-conductive) but I think the way the cover wraps around the base makes it ok, but I may want to get some aluminum duct tape (any home improvement store would have it) and start wrapping it up like a mummy.
Better off with shielding tape for guitars, conductive adhesive I think
Testing has shown clearly that the rubber gasket of ammo cans causes complete failure as a Faraday cage. Most people replace it with rolled up Al foil. And, again, I like to add a bond strap or wire between lid and can, just to be sure.
Ordered my first radio and the study guides for all 3 tests.
The EMP from a high level nuclear blast is unbelievably powerful. A mere aluminium or steel trash can will do nothing. Forget Faraday cage, to protect from EMP you need inches thick of copper or steel. A thin layer of steel is useless, as the magnetic component of the EMP will saturate the steel and then pass straight through. Ditto the electric component, which will generate huge currents in the shield and if the shield is not inches thick the bulk resistance of the shield will allow the EMP through.
Sorry to burst your bubble but even a small EMP will destroy huge transformers in the electricity supply grid, burning them to a crisp and melting the windings, your electronics, even disconnected and sealed in a tin can doesn't stand a chance.
Unless your car is a diesel or a very old petrol car with points, don't expect that to work either.
Do you know a resource for the field strength? I mean something that I can use to determine the V/M2 to determine what distance is safe with what shielding. There's also other considerations that help a lot unpowered equipment is much less susceptible for instance. Putting a shunt on the antenna and power connections when stored would help considerably. And there are things like putting your equipment in ESD bags in the can help as well. There is nothing stopping you from putting a can like he shows inside a larger metal can as well.
@eric thefathead most older diesels do not have any computers to run them and do not require electricity to run since it’s all compression ignition. Only time electricity was needed on my older Mercedes diesels was to warm the glow plugs when it was colder out. Mechanical fuel injection and vacuum valve to shut off the engine
Doesn't Our Government Already know that We are being Threaten w/an EMP Attack & Already have on Hand "Back Up Transformers". ? Why do we have to Wait for an "EMP ATTACK" to Build the Transformers. ? Everybody Keep's Saying, it's Gonna take a Year or 2 to Build Them. "Shouldn't We Already have a Stock Pile of them to get Everything back Up & Running Again."? I sure Hope Somebody is Taking Care of This in the Military. 🫡 Why Wait, they should be Building them NOW. !!! Common Sense. !!!
Another useful thing to add to your kit is the ZSF-YAESU-USB Yaseu USB Charger from gigaparts as another means of charging the HT.
I’d like to see your calendar to find out how often you have inspect and re-charge things....I find that’s a pain with just go bags/ anything battery powered -
The advantage of the solar options is worst case scenario you can just go self-charge the batteries. Advantage of the use of AA is you can still find those anywhere after a disaster, etc.
Ham Radio Crash Course I get that, but do you check and charge things once in a while ? Or don’t touch it till it’s needed?
THE CAN DOES WORK.. A buddy of mine and me we were in a farm store. And put a radio and cell phone in a trash can. People were watching us, and one asked what we were doing.
We explained about the EMP situation and what happens. And we demonstrated what happened to the signal reference in and out. And about Amateur Radio.
Or you can just get old boat anchor equipment with vacuum tubes which are immune to EMP.
they won’t fit in my trashcan. 🤣
You still need to power it!
@@MishaDaBear Just get a truck load of potatoes
EMP attack...Think no food, no transportation (except for OLD cars), any jet flying when it goes off will crash, any boat in range will be adrift, no reliable infrastructure whatsoever. Society goes sideways after about three days when people realize the food supply is gone. Probably one of the worst events that could happen to a country. You know, cats and dogs living in harmony type stuff. I would invest in a bucket full of very fast projectiles. They are not affected by an EMP and have a very calming effect on people that need calming. Great channel BTW.
Great video! I think it is unlikely that EMP will be a problem but that doesn't mean it is impossible so this is a very good back up plan for the worst case scenario. I am more worried that the air waves will be jammed so for me I want a robust and devise coms plan, something that is hard to jam or block, I would be interested in your thought on this.
Unless you’re running spread spectrum or have many bands at your disposal, you will get jammed.
Large ammo can, augment the stock gasket with the mesh wire gasket. Spray all metal internal surface with bed liner spray or rubber based spray product (flex seal). Add ESD pouches for computer and radio. Maybe?
All my research leads me to believe the stock rubber gasket needs to be removed and replaced with a custom electrical seal.
Ammo cans can be effective, but you have to ensure that you have a fully conductive interface without gaps.
I worked on a decent amount of emi hardening at Lockheed and one of the most important components is having gaps no greater than .1 wavelength for whatever you want to protect from. Most destructive frequencies will be sub 10ghz. Above that and you're crossing lines where your protection requirements will be very different. Ammo cans can work but I would recommend either switch the seal for a conductive seal, or simply use a conductive foil tape with conductive adhesive. You can get that on McMaster. But there are more effective options than an ammo can
@@Squat5000 Right on man! Thanks!!
Outstanding and informative video! Much to consider after watching this one. When considering a more robust radio it makes me wonder if using an FT-2980 and a Diamond X-300A will reach your area form say around Irvine.
Glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching.
Could I recommend a different cage?
The dimensions of an M134 ammo can come out to about 7.5 US Gallons.
It is also square and made of steel.
Can be welded onto to give an antenna support, like the one you added to the trashcan.
So in conclusion, It is square so it fits in places with more space efficiency.
But because it is square more things can fit into it neatly without rounded corners.
And it is slightly larger and easier to carry with its built in handles.
One more comment. Ya’all better be keeping a bike or skateboard handy if you drive a car with a computer or electronic ignition. They will be yard art after this event.
Me? Well, I run a fleet of what’s in my sig pic. 😜
good ol carb aircooled boxer :) . i have vw baja bug class 5 for "rainy days" stashed in secure place . vw golf 1 and 2 would be great options too, while 3,4 are a bit more problematic (still not impossible with some knowledge and replacement parts ) ;) .
There are now emp devices for computer cars, generators,RVs, houses.
I just purchased 1 31 gallon that my portable solar panels fit in along with some smaller items and 3 of the 10 gallon for my solar stations,batteries and 3 6 gallon for small radios ,wiring and other. The new 31 gallon cans have a new type lid that fits better,more secure than older lids, tight fitting like the smaller cans lids all fit.
World gone silent had good kits but now r not around :( they had some awesome stuff
Hello Josh. I just found this video and I know it was 2 years ago but maybe you'll respond. I'm just now starting to think about getting into ham radio, I have watched a few videos on it and it seems to me that you pretty much got it together. The other ones I watched did also but they did not go as deep into it as you have. I appreciate you leaving the links in the description that is going to help me a lot as far as Gathering equipment and after that it's all up to me. So thanks again so much for this video I personally really do appreciate it and as an appreciation I'm going to subscribe. Since this is two years later maybe I can gather some newer information. Thanks again for the video and always remember stay vigilant.
As a beginner I’ve got a question that I hope somebody can answer. I like the idea of making a bucket, however Will an old military munitions can work as well.
All you need is a conductive shell, and need to insulate the contents of the container from the conductive shell. The shield needs to be conductive all around the shield (meaning lids need to be fully conductive around the seam, no gaps of non-conductivity). Also I would recommend using multiple shields for the contents you’re protecting, just in case some energy does manage to make it past the first shield. Also use the thickest material possible, as the energy levels involved in a EMP will cause eddy currents in the shield and if the pulse is strong enough and the material is too thin it will vaporize it, and could fully saturate the material at which point it won’t filter out any more of the energy. Do not ground the shield as the ground wire acts as a antenna and will pick up more of the pulse energy and bring it back to the shield. I would also line the inside of the shield with a high dielectric strength tape like Kapton that can handle high voltages before you put down the cardboard insulating sheets. A good rule of thumb to remember is that ~90% of the energy generated is between DC and 100 MHz, so the shield should be designed to attenuate the most energy in that range. There’s a lot of variables involved in EMP shielding but these should get you started.
I would suggest gathering all equipment you want to protect (radios, vehicle computers/ignition systems, small medical devices (glucose meters/auto BP units), etc THEN select a metal can to put it in. Jussayin
I once watched a video where a dude sprayed Flex Seal inside of a metal can. Couple questions though, if the energy burst was large enough, wouldn't this need to be grounded to really work? Or is sufficient insulation inside enough? And how much insulation is "sufficient"?
a steel tool lockbox would be a great option if you needed more space
I think that in an emergency situation 11m CB band should be looked at as well. There are lots of them around. Most in storage (That maybe accidentally stored EMP safe) Preppers from years ago had had the same ideas about EMP ;)
I agree. HF is nice for long distance info, but CB is the way to go for local communication because it is still being used the most.
If you add a lid gasket, which is not required in a metal to metal contact lid, it MUST be of conductive material (which you later correctly addressed). Also one should add a bond strap between can and lid, just to be sure, and I added three draw-hasps to the lid-can. Good ideas for the Ham who is made of money, but most of us are not in that boat, and most of us already have QRP radios, and CW always makes the contact when nothing else does. Digital modes are excessive and unnecessary complications for disaster operation, in my not so humble opinion, having survived disaster situations. That is pretty much all you'll need. Period. Perhaps a VHF/UHF, if, and that's a big if, anyone else locally is prepared.
As for antennas, I'm a homebrew guy, and I agree, I'm quite sure that there will be problems with wire wound toroids, capacitors, et al.
The most pressing reason for a kit such as this is a nuclear pulse, after which sunlight will most likely be in short supply, for a while at least, perhaps a long time. We don't know first hand of the situation after a significant exchange. I'm looking for a hand powered mechanical dynamo of sorts as well. 73.
Ironic how I came to watch this video after I just finished reading book 1 of " One Second After"
Love that book!
See, keep running around without a tinfoil hat, see what happens
@@mikesanders4012 like oppenheimer ranch project "diamond" 📺
yep, makes you think! fast paced.
Read that book years ago, its a good one.
about time someone did the same; my wife thinks I am over doing it
I think that non-wingnut thing on the Antenna is called a Thumb Turn Screw at Home Depot, Josh. 🇨🇦
All this to avoid getting a tube radio?
@Random Silicates Presumably you'd have a generator if you were preparing for doomsday.
Yeah, those tube model packet radios are sweet.
I'm just getting into HAM your videos have been so incredibly helpful. The baofeng program video you did was the best. This was full of great info.
Awesome Nate. Thanks for watching!
Going to have to dump the grenades out and I will have the perfect tactical trash can.
Years ago up in New England..we had an ice storm so bad..we lost power for 10 days.. lucky for me I had some survival equipment..the transistor radio keeped my sanity ..cb radio.. inverter powered my pellet stove..can food and small camping stove..all help me survive it..
Sir, I literally just found your channel and I am going to be honest...I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I just wanted to ask if it would be possible for you to use the Behrens 30 gallon trash can(I believe at Lowe's) so that you can fit all of that gear and possibly more in case this event takes place. I will definately start watching to learn about comms.
Sure.
I had the idea of using a shipping container as my shack. Keeps out unwanted rf, put gauze over the windows, have a single entry point for antennas where the entry point can be completely disconnected and shielded over. Same for the power line into the shack. Store your Honda generator in it, power tools, invertors, computers, monitors etc.
Too many gaps I would imagine to be hardened against EMP. Plus the environmentals (temperature and humidity) would be problematic.
Those containers are known to float, unless worn out/damaged. There was a video of some youtubers cutting into the side of one they found floating in the ocean to peek at the contents. The container was bigger than their boat so it was a super sketchy plan. A random used container would need to be checked over/tested well and gaps sealed but it should work.
The bottom of the cargo boxes are not solid metal, wouldn't that be another issue! The rubber gaskets and the vent holes at the corners are other issues as well.
Can the TTC performance be improved by grounding it? Looking forward to the show.
was thinking the same.
Grounding doesn't really do anything. An EMP pulse is so fast that there isn't much it can help.
@@HamRadioCrashCourse HRCC, many thanks. Thanks for the very informative content. Be well.
Ham Radio Crash Course Can you expand on this? It doesn't make sense to me that an EMP could out run the grounding of a Faraday cage.
@@viewatyourownrisk they have done tests the best way I can explain it is how a toroid can be a dead short on dc but it's an open where rf is concerned.
Tons of vids about using this can, but very few talk about sealing the undersides of the handle on top, and the side rivets. Plus,they have a small leak at the top of the seams on the sides. I have made several of these and they all had to have some kind of seal in these places, or you're wasting your time.
I just braised it closed with a torch. Nothing serious. You could foil tape as well
Great idea. One question though. If the EMP event is thermonuclear, will the radioactive particles in the atmosphere create nasty noise on all bands?
That is entirely possible, access to the bands would like be based on how far you wwere from the explostion.
Yes, but it will be relatively localized. One event over Antarctica won't bother the USA, and the winds aloft will affect things too, but only an EMP expert can give you specifics.
For example, the "dinosaur-killer" meteor strike in the Yucatán Peninsula spread iridium dust globally (it was that big.) but a nuke event is not that big.
The company for that can you have also makes 10 gallon cans and 31 gallon cans too. Building the EMP bucket. Inside the can put aluminum tape all the way around the edge at the bottom, the sides inside along the two seams and over all of the tiny holes inside from the cans handle’s including the lid.
Also place aluminum tape inside over any added things you have screwed into the lid or bucket (like the antenna thingy). Also around the top rim of the bucket too.
At the bottom of the bucket (inside) place a round form fitting piece of cardboard and around the inside walls too.
No cardboard under the lid… not needed and that might interfere with airtight closure for the lid.
Let no metal items touch the metal of the can or lid.
Would an old broken microwave oven work just as well for a more permanent/accessible shelf installation? Also back in the day, I was thinking an old 40 gallon steel drump would work as well, for more bulky items?
A microwave oven is only designed to shield at its operating frequency of 2.45 GHz. They are just about useless at shielding at other frequencies. My cell phone works just fine in a closed microwave oven. Think about it: the manufacturer is not going spend a penny more than they have to pass emissions testing.
I have a similar setup, but I wanted more storage, so I used the 10 gallon can instead. :)
Nice! I was wondering, Ive heard that mylar/Reynolds cook bags can help keep out emf. If so whould it be a good idea to also line the can and tie off the bag to help with any leakage???🎛🎤🎧📡
It appears that mylar is not a good protector from EMP. I watched a video from a YT channel [ disasterprepper ] that tests a mylar wrapped box against RF emissions. Did not perform well.
I keep 2 older, but reliable HT's and a handheld AM/FM/SW SSB receiver each wrapped in aluminum foil in a metal ammo box with an RF foam seal. I'lll be adding a small PV panel and battery charger to the can soon. If the s*it hits the fan I'll pull them out 1 at a time over a week or 2 to try to ensure that all EMP's have stopped. But that's all last ditch sort of stuff. I'd prefer we all work to always be prepared so that nothing happens, or if anything happens it has a minor affect.
BTW, tube gear, like I have some of, is pretty much immune to EMP or to fairly nearby lightning strikes.
What a killer video! Most important topic that doesn't get attention
What about a stack gun cabinet? Or a gun safe?
How do you seal it tightly?
@@HamRadioCrashCourse Ok it seems I need to watch the video tonight :) to deternine how tight the seal needs to be. I heard a microwave oven with the power wire removed may work and then what about ammo cans? OK stop typing and watch the show 73 from PEI Canada VY2WRA
@@Yukon12gauge00buck Funny!!
@@Yukon12gauge00buck Using microwave ovens is a common myth. They only shield well at their operating frequency of 2.45 Ghz. Think about it - they are not going to spend one penny more than they have to pass emission tests.
it`s better than nothing but the large slots in the doors make them pretty much a no go. If you used compression seals yes.